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Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 7  
User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 25
Posted (11 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 12461 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

Good afternoon guys,

Due to the length of part 6, part 7 has been created. Please feel free to continue to contribute to the discussion.

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 6 (by iowaman Jun 5 2013 in Civil Aviation)


Have fun!

SA7700


When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
244 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinetreebeard787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 659 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (11 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 12346 times:

Quoting PHX787 ():
So any updates on the T3N gates? I heard they're doing maintenance on it now in anticipation of the HA move!

NK is going to use gate 25 after the move from IWA. B6 will be moving from gate 5 on the south side to 26 on the north side, leaving HA as the only occupant of gate 5. And SY will likely move to the south side as well. With these moves I could see HA staying on the south side for the time being.



Allons-y!
User currently offlinedlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 931 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (11 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 12326 times:

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 1):
NK is going to use gate 25 after the move from IWA

   That is correct Sir, The old NW offices and podium at the gate are being remodeled as we speak.

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 1):
B6 will be moving from gate 5 on the south side to 26 on the north side

  

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 1):
And SY will likely move to the south side as well

They will be moving to gate 9 is what I heard but that could always change.

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 1):
With these moves I could see HA staying on the south side for the time being.

HA is the whole reason B6 is moving. DL TechOps got rewarded the contract for HA to perform heavy duty checks nightly. HA had to adjust their schedule which affects B6.

As on news of Gate 24, The gate works and DL will possibly using it for RON aircraft that will get towed off later because NK and B6 will also get priority use of that gate from 2300 to 0230



PHX Ramp, hottest place on earth
User currently offlineatcsundevil From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1205 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (11 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 12212 times:

From the previous thread...

Quoting chrisair:
Every time I asked last year they said T3 wasn't due for it. T2 was the one where it was promised (the signs were up and everything) but went away because UA "didn't want to pay for it" or something.

That's a new one! I've now heard six or seven different reasons for why it didn't happen before. As with most things when it comes to TSA: Who the hell really knows why?!

If PreCheck really does come to T2, then I'm happy. I think that logistically it will be tough in T3 since the checkpoints are pretty cramped as it is.


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7560 posts, RR: 18
Reply 4, posted (11 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 12164 times:

I wish the mods would email me when a new thread is created but oh well


It looks like T3 is going to be a huge shakeup by the time i return back to PHX. My next trip seems to be sometime in March.


Are those QF charters still scheduled?



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offline93Sierra From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 418 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 12031 times:

What's going on here?

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/SCX8606

Sun Country 737-800 flying HNL to IWA


User currently offlinedlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 931 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 12027 times:

Quoting 93Sierra (Reply 5):

What's going on here?

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/SCX8606

Sun Country 737-800 flying HNL to IWA

Department of Corrections charter.



PHX Ramp, hottest place on earth
User currently offlineSevensixtyseven From United States of America, joined May 2011, 170 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 11946 times:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/A...1/history/20130929/0400Z/KBFI/KTUS

Anyone care to speculate on this one? It continued onto PHX as this...

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/A...7/history/20130929/0738Z/KTUS/KPHX



Will that ex-HP 752 get delayed...again?
User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5692 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 11944 times:

Quoting Sevensixtyseven (Reply 7):

Can confirm this happened, watched it coming in at work in TUS, shocked to see a mainline, thought it was a diversion. It landed, went to the gate and literally turned around to go take off back to Phoenix. Did not sit at the gate very long at all.



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineSiouxATC From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 385 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 11929 times:

Quoting Sevensixtyseven (Reply 7):
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/A...1/history/20130929/0400Z/KBFI/KTUS

Anyone care to speculate on this one? It continued onto PHX as this...

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/A.../KPHX
Quoting Sevensixtyseven (Reply 7):

Can confirm this happened, watched it coming in at work in TUS, shocked to see a mainline, thought it was a diversion. It landed, went to the gate and literally turned around to go take off back to Phoenix. Did not sit at the gate very long at all.

U of A played UW in Seattle.


User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5692 posts, RR: 52
Reply 10, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 11917 times:

Quoting SiouxATC (Reply 9):

U of A played UW in Seattle.

Quite the irony to fly an Airbus out of Boeing Field!  



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7560 posts, RR: 18
Reply 11, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 11850 times:

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 6):
Department of Corrections charter.

They charter Sun Country now, huh? Nice flight for those jailbirds  
Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 10):
Quite the irony to fly an Airbus out of Boeing Field!

Haaa that is hilarious. I can just imagine those Boeing engineers glaring at the Airbus taxiing by  



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlinetreebeard787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 659 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 11810 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 11):
They charter Sun Country now, huh? Nice flight for those jailbirds

They used SY for this flight because their 737s are ETOPS rated and can do HNL-IWA, Falcon only operates MD-80s which can't do that flight. They have used SY off and on in the past for these services. Falcon and Ryan are the primary operators for the DOJ flights though.



Allons-y!
User currently offlinechrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 2114 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 11783 times:

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 3):
I think that logistically it will be tough in T3 since the checkpoints are pretty cramped as it is.

Just went through T3 on Monday. They've redone the security setup now--the priority line is against the east wall. According to the TSA person there, they hope to have PreCheck up and running by Oct. 31. Supposedly they moved the priority line to accommodate it.


User currently offline93Sierra From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 418 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 11767 times:

I had no idea of the large size of the Republic and Sun Country operations at Laughlin.

http://flightaware.com/live/airport/KIFP

Arrivals from Gateway, Tulsa, Kansas City, Seattle, Fort Collins, Grand Forks all on 738s and E190s


User currently offlineatcsundevil From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1205 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 11731 times:

Quoting chrisair (Reply 13):
Just went through T3 on Monday. They've redone the security setup now--the priority line is against the east wall. According to the TSA person there, they hope to have PreCheck up and running by Oct. 31. Supposedly they moved the priority line to accommodate it.

Glad to hear it! Thanks for the update. Hopefully the same progress has been made in T2...I haven't flown in a few weeks, but I'm flying about 60k in the next two months from T2 so PreCheck will be much appreciated sooner than later.

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 12):
They have used SY off and on in the past for these services.

Exactly. This isn't a new thing. I've seen SY charters for DOJ and others from IWA at least a half dozen times in the past few years, and that's just from what I've personally seen. AZDOC houses a huge number of inmates from Hawaii under contract, so one could assume this has something to so with it.


User currently offlineinfiniti329 From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 11717 times:

Was there a United plane at KIWA today 10/03/13? I seen it takeoff around 2:30 PM, looked like widebody? Any info would appreciated.

User currently offlinetreebeard787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 659 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 11682 times:

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 16):

Was there a United plane at KIWA today 10/03/13? I seen it takeoff around 2:30 PM, looked like widebody? Any info would appreciated.


Yes, it was a 762 in UA colors doing touch and go's. it's back at GYR now.



Allons-y!
User currently offlineatcsundevil From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1205 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 11684 times:

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 16):

Was there a United plane at KIWA today 10/03/13? I seen it takeoff around 2:30 PM, looked like widebody? Any info would appreciated.

There's nothing on a Flight Aware. The closest thing I can find around then is an Allegiant A319.


User currently offlinedlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 931 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 11683 times:

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 16):

I saw it also, I had to do a double take because it was doing touch and go's



PHX Ramp, hottest place on earth
User currently offlineatcsundevil From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1205 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 11644 times:

Nice! Hopefully it'll find a new home?

User currently offlinePSAJet17 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 336 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 11635 times:

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 18):
There's nothing on a Flight Aware.

IWA was never a destination or origination of the United 762 since it was only doing touch and go's. The only thing you might have seen on a flight tracking system was the United flight number doing a GYR-GYR flight.


User currently offlineatcsundevil From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1205 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 11583 times:

Quoting PSAJet17 (Reply 21):

Yes, I inferred that from Treebeard's post...what I said was beaten out by 5 seconds so it became irrelevant as soon as it went up.


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7560 posts, RR: 18
Reply 23, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 11556 times:

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 17):
Yes, it was a 762 in UA colors doing touch and go's. it's back at GYR now.

Wow I wonder who bought her....maybe a cargo airline?



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlineinfiniti329 From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 11546 times:

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 19):
I saw it also, I had to do a double take because it was doing touch and go's

I thought I was seeing things, glad I wasnt


User currently offlinechrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 2114 posts, RR: 3
Reply 25, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 11635 times:

Quoting PSAJet17 (Reply 21):
The only thing you might have seen on a flight tracking system was the United flight number doing a GYR-GYR flight.

Like this?  http://flightaware.com/live/flight/U...7/history/20131003/2000Z/KGYR/KGYR


User currently offlineatcsundevil From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1205 posts, RR: 2
Reply 26, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 11639 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 23):

They're still really young airplanes (less than 12 or 13 years old) so there should still plenty of life left in them before they'll end up with a cargo operator or getting scrapped. I know a lot of their former 735s (many nearly as young) are now with UTAir, so I wonder if the 762s are headed in a similar direction. I remember reading something about where some of them might be going, but like many things, it has completely escaped me.


User currently offlinetreebeard787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 659 posts, RR: 1
Reply 27, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 11712 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 23):
Wow I wonder who bought her....maybe a cargo airline?

It's N69154, a 12 year old frame delivered to CO on 1/19/01. It will be going to UTAir and is flying GYR-MCO today.
http://www.planespotters.net/Product...g/767/30433,VP--UTAir-Aviation.php
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL6876



Allons-y!
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7560 posts, RR: 18
Reply 28, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 11594 times:

Cessna 340 Crashes North Of Prescott, AZ (by PSAJet17 Oct 4 2013 in Civil Aviation)

Cessna down near Prescott



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offline93Sierra From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 418 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (11 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11518 times:

Speaking of Prescott, what's with the Mesa Crj 900 doing Phx-Prc-Phx?
http://flightaware.com/live/airport/KPRC


User currently offlineatcsundevil From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1205 posts, RR: 2
Reply 30, posted (11 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 11479 times:

Quoting 93Sierra (Reply 29):

Looks like it was probably a mx test flight.


User currently offlineaztrainer From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 580 posts, RR: 1
Reply 31, posted (11 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 11270 times:

Well, I saw that HA was at the Northern gates today. How long have they been over on the north side of T-3?

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5329/10193180583_2540fe07bc_b.jpg
HA-35 by aztrainer72, on Flickr

[Edited 2013-10-10 11:20:50]

Not the best shot or angle as it was from T-4 8th floor


[Edited 2013-10-10 11:21:39]

User currently offlineatcsundevil From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1205 posts, RR: 2
Reply 32, posted (11 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 11252 times:

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 31):

Well, I saw that HA was at the Northern gates today. How long have they been over on the north side of T-3?

I saw it at T3N this morning before I flew out of T2 and was wondering the same thing. I knew the change was coming but I didn't realize it was so soon.


On another note, TSA PreCheck officially opened this morning in T2!


User currently offlinedlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 931 posts, RR: 1
Reply 33, posted (11 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 11173 times:

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 31):

Very odd... With the recent gate change notices HA is staying on the south side while B6 moves to north side alongside NK. Usually HA will use 26 at night for their RON aircraft because B6 is still on the ground. After B6 leaves the HA plane gets towed over back to the south side. Maybe sky train construction has restricted use of Gate 5 on the south end...



PHX Ramp, hottest place on earth
User currently offlineaztrainer From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 580 posts, RR: 1
Reply 34, posted (11 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 11134 times:

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 33):
Very odd... With the recent gate change notices HA is staying on the south side while B6 moves to north side alongside NK. Usually HA will use 26 at night for their RON aircraft because B6 is still on the ground. After B6 leaves the HA plane gets towed over back to the south side. Maybe sky train construction has restricted use of Gate 5 on the south end...

I figured that you would of been the one to know if this was the switch that was being touted for such a long time. If it is because of sky train, would that mean that HA will be over at T-3N for an extended period of time as well as would/will they have the room to keep a 767 and a 330 over at 5? I thought that the room at 5 was getting smaller and that was the reason for the move to T-3....

Well, it was a strange day all around in Phoenix today with the weather and all.


User currently offlinedlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 931 posts, RR: 1
Reply 35, posted (11 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 11101 times:

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 34):

We were briefed last month about how NK and B6 will be taking over gates 25 and 26 on the north end. I am not really sure how Gate 5 works over on the south end expect that the 767 has to park at an angle when it parks there. I am not sure if an A330 will be able to fit there but Gate 24 has a parking spot for an A330 as well as Delta Gate 23. It would not be a surprise to me if one day HA packed up and moved over to the north end because of the looming AA/US merger and the terminal expansion project. But DL TechOps will be doing heavy checks on HA birds here starting soon so a move over to the north end could help them out alot.



PHX Ramp, hottest place on earth
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7560 posts, RR: 18
Reply 36, posted (11 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 11050 times:

She looks better over at North. You can grab a nice shot of Camelback in the background with her too  
Quoting aztrainer (Reply 34):
Well, it was a strange day all around in Phoenix today with the weather and all.

I'm missing out on all the fun. It's been cloudy, windy, and typhoony here in Japan.



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlineAztrainer From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 580 posts, RR: 1
Reply 37, posted (11 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 10991 times:

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 35):
We were briefed last month about how NK and B6 will be taking over gates 25 and 26 on the north end. I am not really sure how Gate 5 works over on the south end expect that the 767 has to park at an angle when it parks there. I am not sure if an A330 will be able to fit there but Gate 24 has a parking spot for an A330 as well as Delta Gate 23. It would not be a surprise to me if one day HA packed up and moved over to the north end because of the looming AA/US merger and the terminal expansion project. But DL TechOps will be doing heavy checks on HA birds here starting soon so a move over to the north end could help them out alot.

I was out again today and she was over on the North again. I agree that if DL is doing the checks than HA's gate should be to the north for the ease to work and not having to travel back and forth for parts. With teh transition of 767 to the 330 it will eventually have to be moved to a different gate.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 36):
She looks better over at North. You can grab a nice shot of Camelback in the background with her too

When she leaves? Today she used 8/26, but these days I am at 40th street and that is a LONG shot. The problem is the angle as she needs to climb slowly to keep Camelback in the shot or you would need to have a very wide shot. This is an example from 40th street with a 80 - 200 (new) lens.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3670/10212391584_c3cbdd293e_b.jpg
HA N592HA by aztrainer72, on Flickr

[Edited 2013-10-11 11:55:32]

User currently offlineAztrainer From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 580 posts, RR: 1
Reply 38, posted (11 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 10890 times:

I have a question for something I have seen twice in the past. Last summer and today there was a FX caravan that was behind a follow me truck. They are going from the normal cargo area to the north side of the airport. My question is, are they doing this because their MX area is in the hangers on the north side? Why would they not have their MX area closer to their FBO? I took a picture of a US CRJ-600 landing landing and I saw that they were working on a FX caravan.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7293/10103049466_dfb62b74dd_b.jpg
N898SK by aztrainer72, on Flickr


User currently offlinemach2is2slowaz From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 61 posts, RR: 0
Reply 39, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 10789 times:

Anyone know why SWA634 flight from DEN to PHX on 10/12 did this on final. It flew over my house in Chandler at about 5000 feet. on Oct 12th strange approach to PHX. I heard him tell the PHX tower that he would most likely role to the end of 26.
SWA634 on Oct 12th strange approach to PHX.


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7560 posts, RR: 18
Reply 40, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 10714 times:

Quoting mach2is2slowaz (Reply 39):
I heard him tell the PHX tower that he would most likely role to the end of 26.

He probably had an issue which he needed to run a quick checklist on.



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5641 posts, RR: 6
Reply 41, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 10643 times:

Quoting mach2is2slowaz (Reply 39):
Anyone know why SWA634 flight from DEN to PHX on 10/12 did this on final. It flew over my house in Chandler at about 5000 feet. on Oct 12th strange approach to PHX. I heard him tell the PHX tower that he would most likely role to the end of 26.

Likely a tower flyby for a landing gear inspection. The CFR trucks were staged for the flight; probably either a flat tire, brake indication, or gear unsafe indication.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlinemach2is2slowaz From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 61 posts, RR: 0
Reply 42, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 10610 times:

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 41):

Thanks for the info! That is what I was thinking but I can't pick up PHX ground on my scanner from Chandler! At one point I thought that they were going to land at IWA. It looked like they were making a right down wind approach. I tuned to Gateway tower and never heard them talking to the SWA flight.


User currently offlinedlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 931 posts, RR: 1
Reply 43, posted (11 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 10350 times:

Quoting Aztrainer (Reply 37):

It looks like HA has moved their operation to gate 24. 767 line along with A321 and A320 lines have been painted for use by B6 and NK if needed . They have a little podium at the gate now along with some signage I assume more is to come. There are also new podiums at Gate 25 and 26 for the start of the NK and B6 operation. Next month T3N is going to be very crowded at night.



PHX Ramp, hottest place on earth
User currently offline4holer From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 3017 posts, RR: 9
Reply 44, posted (11 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 10297 times:

What's up with the Coyotes charter planes? I'd thought that they had painted, and used an early 757, and the old 727 flown away to parts unknown, but at http://www.visitingphx.com/charters.html it shows them using a 727, but not their old one.
So what's the deal? Trouble with the 757?



Ghosts appear and fade away.....................
User currently offlinechrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 2114 posts, RR: 3
Reply 45, posted (11 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 10267 times:

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 32):
On another note, TSA PreCheck officially opened this morning in T2!

PreCheck is open at T3N as well! Life is good! Hopefully DL and AS stay partners now.


User currently offlinedlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 931 posts, RR: 1
Reply 46, posted (11 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 10041 times:

So Volaris started operations this week. Any word on how the first loads looked?


PHX Ramp, hottest place on earth
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7560 posts, RR: 18
Reply 47, posted (11 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9949 times:

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 46):
So Volaris started operations this week. Any word on how the first loads looked?

Most of the PHX Spotters are in LAX right now so I can't really ask them....does anyone have any photos of it?



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlineje89_w From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 2361 posts, RR: 9
Reply 48, posted (11 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9940 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Quoting 93Sierra (Reply 29):
Speaking of Prescott, what's with the Mesa Crj 900 doing Phx-Prc-Phx?
http://flightaware.com/live/airport/KPRC
Quoting 93Sierra (Reply 29):

Looks like it was probably a mx test flight.

It went up to PRC for ERAU's OctoberWest event. It dwarfed every aircraft on the ERAU flight line.


User currently offlinetreebeard787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 659 posts, RR: 1
Reply 49, posted (11 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 9906 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 47):
Most of the PHX Spotters are in LAX right now so I can't really ask them....does anyone have any photos of it?

I have a picture posted on the spotters FB page. GDL-PHX will be 3x weekly and MEX-PHX starts on December 4th.



Allons-y!
User currently offlineaztrainer From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 580 posts, RR: 1
Reply 50, posted (11 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 9884 times:

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 46):
So Volaris started operations this week. Any word on how the first loads looked?
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 47):
Most of the PHX Spotters are in LAX right now so I can't really ask them....does anyone have any photos of it?
Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 49):
I have a picture posted on the spotters FB page. GDL-PHX will be 3x weekly and MEX-PHX starts on December 4th.

Or the website also has a picture of it.

http://phxspotters.com/forums/index....4.msg17027/topicseen.html#msg17027

I also know I seen another picture from another member, but nobody has started a folder for Volaris yet.


User currently offlinetreebeard787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 659 posts, RR: 1
Reply 51, posted (11 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 9883 times:

My shot.

Volaris A320 N511VL by KoryC757, on Flickr



Allons-y!
User currently offlineaztrainer From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 580 posts, RR: 1
Reply 52, posted (11 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 9873 times:

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 51):

I just saw that one today. Nice shot, but I always like more than one plane in each shot.


User currently offlineairportugal310 From Tokelau, joined Apr 2004, 3635 posts, RR: 2
Reply 53, posted (11 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 9816 times:

Quoting Aztrainer (Reply 37):

No need to worry about the A330s anytime soon. PHX will be one of the last mainland stations to go 330, and the switch in Mx checks to be performed is a clear indication of that.

Beautiful pic, by the way.



I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
User currently offlineaztrainer From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 580 posts, RR: 1
Reply 54, posted (11 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9689 times:

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 53):
No need to worry about the A330s anytime soon. PHX will be one of the last mainland stations to go 330, and the switch in Mx checks to be performed is a clear indication of that.

Beautiful pic, by the way.

Yeah, I am not holding my breath on being on a HA 330 anytime soon. It amazes me that all of the times I have flowen on her how quickly it sells out.

Thank you about the picture.


User currently offlinesacampb From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 42 posts, RR: 0
Reply 55, posted (10 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9482 times:

Quoting Aztrainer (Reply 38):
I have a question for something I have seen twice in the past. Last summer and today there was a FX caravan that was behind a follow me truck. They are going from the normal cargo area to the north side of the airport. My question is, are they doing this because their MX area is in the hangers on the north side? Why would they not have their MX area closer to their FBO? I took a picture of a US CRJ-600 landing landing and I saw that they were working on a FX caravan.

Their MX is over there but the park in the Northwest corner most days/nights as they aren't FX but a contractor.


User currently offline93Sierra From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 418 posts, RR: 0
Reply 56, posted (10 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 9327 times:

Spirit started its PHX ops

User currently offlinedlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 931 posts, RR: 1
Reply 57, posted (10 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 9255 times:

Quoting 93Sierra (Reply 56):
Spirit started its PHX ops

Thats today? On tuesday when I was up at gate 25 it looks like they were still getting the area ready, same with their offices.



PHX Ramp, hottest place on earth
User currently offline93Sierra From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 418 posts, RR: 0
Reply 58, posted (10 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 9135 times:

http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region...sky-harbor-flight-takes-off-friday

Started yesterday, more flights to begin in November. I know it's more GA related but did anyone go down to Copperstate?


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7560 posts, RR: 18
Reply 59, posted (10 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 9014 times:

Quoting 93Sierra (Reply 56):
Spirit started its PHX ops

Anyone on the ground with a photo?

Or loads information?



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7560 posts, RR: 18
Reply 60, posted (10 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8865 times:

Hey guys, quick question on the HA flight: How packed is it? Like, the Load factor?

a friend of mine here in tokyo said they may give me a buddy pass or something to fly back next spring.



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlinetreebeard787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 659 posts, RR: 1
Reply 61, posted (10 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 8809 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 60):

Hey guys, quick question on the HA flight: How packed is it? Like, the Load factor?

a friend of mine here in tokyo said they may give me a buddy pass or something to fly back next spring.

I don't know the exact LF, but from what I hear it goes out quite full the majority of the time.



Allons-y!
User currently offlinewn676 From Djibouti, joined Jun 2005, 1037 posts, RR: 4
Reply 62, posted (10 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 8788 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 60):
Hey guys, quick question on the HA flight: How packed is it? Like, the Load factor?
HA's reported 2013 LF:

HNL-PHX
Jan / 86.9%
Feb / 83.8%
Mar / 90.3%
Apr / 86.6%
May / 85.6 %
Jun / 86.0%
Jul / 85.7%

PHX-HNL
Jan / 85.2%
Feb / 83.4%
Mar / 86.8%
Apr / 82.8 %
May / 85.9%
Jun / 90.8%
Jul / 83.6%

[Edited 2013-10-30 12:34:55]


Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
User currently offlineaztrainer From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 580 posts, RR: 1
Reply 63, posted (10 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 8771 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 60):
Hey guys, quick question on the HA flight: How packed is it? Like, the Load factor?

a friend of mine here in tokyo said they may give me a buddy pass or something to fly back next spring.

Wn676 has the true datat, so mine is purely antidotial, but every time I have flown on her it has been totally full. That is/has been in October, June, July. I also fly on Saturday's only. My parents just came back and they flew out and back on Friday and they said there was about 10 - 15 empty seats.

I also know my December flight was totally booked in June.


User currently offlinecageyjames From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 321 posts, RR: 0
Reply 64, posted (10 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 8794 times:

Phoenix Sky Harbor Airport Terminal 3 to expand; Terminal 2 will close

http://www.azcentral.com/community/p...to-expand-terminal-will-close.html

Well there you go....


User currently offlinewn676 From Djibouti, joined Jun 2005, 1037 posts, RR: 4
Reply 65, posted (10 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 8754 times:

And since I have the table filtered, here's US's reported 2013 LF from the BTS site:

HNL-PHX
Jan / 92.4%
Feb / 89.5 %
Mar / 92.9%
Apr / 96.2%
May / 92.8 %
Jun / 96.6%
Jul / 96.9%

PHX-HNL
Jan / 90.5%
Feb / 95.0 %
Mar / 91.5 %
Apr / 93.1 %
May / 97.1%
Jun / 97.8 %
Jul / 96.9%



Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
User currently offlinewn676 From Djibouti, joined Jun 2005, 1037 posts, RR: 4
Reply 66, posted (10 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 8748 times:

Question for someone who hopefully knows...I've heard of a walkway T3 SkyTrain station to T2, but is that just going to utilize the existing walkway from T3 or will it be a new structure?


Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
User currently offlinedlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 931 posts, RR: 1
Reply 67, posted (10 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 8732 times:

Quoting cageyjames (Reply 64):

Phoenix Sky Harbor Airport Terminal 3 to expand; Terminal 2 will close

http://www.azcentral.com/community/p...to-expand-terminal-will-close.html

Well there you go....

Good to see this finally moving forward.

Quoting wn676 (Reply 66):
Question for someone who hopefully knows...I've heard of a walkway T3 SkyTrain station to T2, but is that just going to utilize the existing walkway from T3 or will it be a new structure?

I am not in the know but I think the existing walkway will be used since T3 will be undergoing a remodel so T2 can close within the next five years. The station is coming along nicely



PHX Ramp, hottest place on earth
User currently offlineatcsundevil From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1205 posts, RR: 2
Reply 68, posted (10 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 8729 times:

Quoting wn676 (Reply 66):
Question for someone who hopefully knows...I've heard of a walkway T3 SkyTrain station to T2, but is that just going to utilize the existing walkway from T3 or will it be a new structure?

My understanding is that it is supposed to be a new-build moving walkway (not sure if it's outdoor covered or if it's enclosed). That's what the original plans called for. I have no idea if they've begun constructing that portion yet, but it does seem like a waste now. The only problem is that T2 will still be open for 4-5 years minimum after the extension to T3 opens, so that's a long time for a half-assed approach.


User currently offlinedlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 931 posts, RR: 1
Reply 69, posted (10 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 8717 times:

Heads up:

DL will be sending a 739 to PHX on 11/5 and night time 11/6.



PHX Ramp, hottest place on earth
User currently offlinewn676 From Djibouti, joined Jun 2005, 1037 posts, RR: 4
Reply 70, posted (10 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 8719 times:

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 68):
I have no idea if they've begun constructing that portion yet, but it does seem like a waste now. The only problem is that T2 will still be open for 4-5 years minimum after the extension to T3 opens, so that's a long time for a half-assed approach.

I'm not over on that side often but it doesn't seem like anything is being built in terms of a new walkway. I'd be curious to know though how many people actually park in East Econ or come in on the Metro and are using T2 though. At any rate, at least they have something in place already, though it is open-air.



Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
User currently offlineaztrainer From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 580 posts, RR: 1
Reply 71, posted (10 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 8696 times:

What are they going to do with the vacent space and are they going to add up on the parking garage on the existing location or are they going to add parking in the T-2 area and use the skywalk from a parking garage in the T2 old area to T-3? If they do that it seems to be a very long trip on a skywalk.

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 68):
The only problem is that T2 will still be open for 4-5 years minimum after the extension to T3 opens, so that's a long time for a half-assed approach.

Welcome to Phoenix planning or lack there of. I have seen a lot of times a newly paved street get ripped up because they forgot about some sewer or water main work. It could also be a "fall back" if there is an upswing in capacity needed.


User currently offlinetreebeard787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 659 posts, RR: 1
Reply 72, posted (10 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 8697 times:

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 69):
Heads up:

DL will be sending a 739 to PHX on 11/5 and night time 11/6.

Will it be operating ATL-PHX or DTW-PHX? and do you know what time it will arrive?



Allons-y!
User currently offlinewn676 From Djibouti, joined Jun 2005, 1037 posts, RR: 4
Reply 73, posted (10 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8671 times:

US will be replacing Express on PHX-DSM with mainline equipment beginning in January:

US564 PHX 0959 DSM 1352 319
US411 PHX 1950 DSM 2335 319

US530 DSM 0751 PHX 1002 319
US523 DSM 1459 PHX 1701 319

Also over the peak holiday schedule (12/20 to 01/05), they'll be operating an additional PHX-DSM frequency that AFAIK they haven't loaded in previous seasons:

US2753 PHX 0059 DSM 0435 CR9
US2752 DSM 2100 PHX 2300 CR9



Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
User currently offlinedlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 931 posts, RR: 1
Reply 74, posted (10 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 8625 times:

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 72):
Will it be operating ATL-PHX or DTW-PHX? and do you know what time it will arrive?

11/5: DTW
11/6: ATL



PHX Ramp, hottest place on earth
User currently offlineatcsundevil From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1205 posts, RR: 2
Reply 75, posted (10 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 8578 times:

Quoting wn676 (Reply 70):
I'm not over on that side often but it doesn't seem like anything is being built in terms of a new walkway. I'd be curious to know though how many people actually park in East Econ or come in on the Metro and are using T2 though. At any rate, at least they have something in place already, though it is open-air.

The T3 to T2 walkway isn't bad, but it seems a shame to spend upwards of $1b on the SkyTrain project just to leave a ratty looking walkway to T2 for the next half decade or more. Maybe they should revise the moving walkway plan (if it's still even in the plans) to a somewhat nicer but temporary walkway to replace the existing one. If anything, it might not be suitable anyway as is because the SkyTrain will probably bring a lot of people T2-bound -- the existing walkway is quite narrow in some places and probably couldn't handle any significant level of foot traffic. It only works now because hardly anyone uses it.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 71):
Welcome to Phoenix planning or lack there of. I have seen a lot of times a newly paved street get ripped up because they forgot about some sewer or water main work. It could also be a "fall back" if there is an upswing in capacity needed.

I was going to say that but decided to hold back! What I was going to say is that there should be a better short-term solution, but they'll probably just leave it looking like a piece of crap until they close it. It's what they've done with a majority of the airport, so why change the status quo?


User currently offlinechrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 2114 posts, RR: 3
Reply 76, posted (10 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 8470 times:

Quoting wn676 (Reply 70):
I'd be curious to know though how many people actually park in East Econ or come in on the Metro and are using T2 though.

I do it pretty frequently (well, not using Metro). I just did it last weekend, actually. If I'm coming in on WN, I usually park at East Econ and bus over to T3 or T2 if I'm flying out on DL/AS. Same goes in reverse if I'm flying in on AS (especially that midnight arrival), I park at T2 and bus to T4. Not the ideal setup since T2 is the easiest to get to from my apartment, but it works for now...

Quoting wn676 (Reply 70):
I'm not over on that side often but it doesn't seem like anything is being built in terms of a new walkway.

I didn't see anything being built when I drove by this afternoon. I'm not sure where it's going to go though...


User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5641 posts, RR: 6
Reply 77, posted (10 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 8475 times:

UA 5573 SFO-IAH diverted to PHX about 5pm this afternoon. An "unspecified threat" was made against the flight.

Passengers have been bussed to the terminal...



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlinedlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 931 posts, RR: 1
Reply 78, posted (10 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 8343 times:

Any diversions due to what is going on in LAX?

saw this: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/A...9/history/20131101/2000Z/KPHX/KLAX



PHX Ramp, hottest place on earth
User currently offlinewn676 From Djibouti, joined Jun 2005, 1037 posts, RR: 4
Reply 79, posted (10 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 8310 times:

N797AN enroute from MIA to LAX diverted here to PHX. Parked at Gate 6:

http://s2.postimg.org/yvq9waemh/image.jpg

http://s2.postimg.org/ciij9hdop/image.jpg



Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
User currently offlinePSAJet17 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 336 posts, RR: 0
Reply 80, posted (10 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 8260 times:

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 77):
UA 5573 SFO-IAH diverted to PHX about 5pm this afternoon.

That should be UA 5573 SFO-SAT


User currently offline4holer From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 3017 posts, RR: 9
Reply 81, posted (10 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 8221 times:

Quoting wn676 (Reply 79):
N797AN enroute from MIA to LAX diverted here to PHX. Parked at Gate 6:

Saw it after taking off for LA, but had just gotten home (in Gilbert) after an eye doctor appointment and my eyes were dilated, and I just thought my vision was off (which it was). Wish I'd seen it clearly!



Ghosts appear and fade away.....................
User currently offline4holer From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 3017 posts, RR: 9
Reply 82, posted (10 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8026 times:

WOA MD-11 enroute to GYR. Final flight? http://fr24.com/WOA9073


Ghosts appear and fade away.....................
User currently offlineatcsundevil From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1205 posts, RR: 2
Reply 83, posted (10 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 7917 times:

Quoting 4holer (Reply 82):
WOA MD-11 enroute to GYR. Final flight? http://fr24.com/WOA9073

I would assume so. I think I remember reading that World was getting rid of the MD-11s (although they don't have many left anyway). Unless they do freighter conversions at GYR, this bird probably won't fly again.

It's sad to see more MD-11s go. A great airplane with terrible timing.


User currently offlinetreebeard787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 659 posts, RR: 1
Reply 84, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 7867 times:

I heard there is an RNAF DC-10 at PHX, at the south cargo ramp. I don't know any details on departure time. That would be cool to see.


Allons-y!
User currently offlinecageyjames From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 321 posts, RR: 0
Reply 85, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 7869 times:

I saw a Royal Netherlands Air Force DC-10 on south cargo ramp driving into work this morning. Anyone get a picture?

User currently offlinedlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 931 posts, RR: 1
Reply 86, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7817 times:

http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region...rrying-rifle-handgun-at-sky-harbor

Welcome to Arizona.

I did not know about this until last night and I work in terminal 3!



PHX Ramp, hottest place on earth
User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3642 posts, RR: 3
Reply 87, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7817 times:

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 86):

http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region...rrying-rifle-handgun-at-sky-harbor

Welcome to Arizona.

I did not know about this until last night and I work in terminal 3!

I live in AZ and I'm as much for gun rights as anyone else is here, but why is it not illegal to walk around the unsecured premises of an airport with a gun? You can't smoke in the airport, but you can walk around with a gun over your shoulder. How does that make any sense at all?

Apparently, it freaked a bunch of people out and they had a whole entourage of airport police following them around the airport because they were terrifying people, especially so soon after LAX.



PHX based
User currently offlinedlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 931 posts, RR: 1
Reply 88, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 7797 times:

Quoting 777STL (Reply 87):
I live in AZ and I'm as much for gun rights as anyone else is here, but why is it not illegal to walk around the unsecured premises of an airport with a gun? You can't smoke in the airport, but you can walk around with a gun over your shoulder. How does that make any sense at all?

You are correct. I am for gun rights like the next guy but this stunt does not promote responsible gun ownership. It would freak anyone out even if the LAX shooting did not happen.

Quoting cageyjames (Reply 85):
I saw a Royal Netherlands Air Force DC-10 on south cargo ramp driving into work this morning. Anyone get a picture?

Thank you PHX Spotters.



PHX Ramp, hottest place on earth
User currently offlinecageyjames From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 321 posts, RR: 0
Reply 89, posted (10 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 7692 times:

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 88):
Thank you PHX Spotters.

Beautiful! Stood out among the UPS and FedEx planes yesterday morning.


User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3642 posts, RR: 3
Reply 90, posted (10 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 7664 times:

I assume this is related to some sort of exercise at Luke?


PHX based
User currently offlinetreebeard787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 659 posts, RR: 1
Reply 91, posted (10 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 7659 times:

Quoting 777STL (Reply 90):
I assume this is related to some sort of exercise at Luke?

The RNAF does pilot training out here in AZ, it may very well have had something to do with the F16 training flights.



Allons-y!
User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5641 posts, RR: 6
Reply 92, posted (10 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 7626 times:

Quoting 777STL (Reply 87):
but why is it not illegal to walk around the unsecured premises of an airport with a gun?

Why should it be?

Quoting 777STL (Reply 87):
You can't smoke in the airport

You can't smoke anywhere indoors in a public building or a place of business (other than private membership-only lodges like a VFW Post or Elks Lodge).



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlineatcsundevil From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1205 posts, RR: 2
Reply 93, posted (10 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 7604 times:

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 92):
Why should it be?

It should be because the majority of the flying public would find something like this extremely disconcerting. Guns aren't allowed in schools -- why are airports any different? It seems to me like it should be a relatively simple matter of posting signs banning guns at the entrances if the City of Phoenix agrees that guns do not belong in PHX.

I'm not trying to get into some gun rights debate because this is hardly the place for such a discussion, but my viewpoint on this (and likely the viewpoint of many sharing a similar sentiment) is that this is something that should have been banned all along. My stance isn't in reaction to any recent events, because all of that aside, airports are extremely sensitive places -- since 9/11 in particular -- and whether it be airside or landside, weapons do not belong in the hands of anyone not law enforcement. There are some places guns just don't need to be.


User currently offlinetreebeard787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 659 posts, RR: 1
Reply 94, posted (10 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7569 times:

Whats this about?
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/S...0/history/20131026/1826Z/KPHX/LPPI



Allons-y!
User currently offlineairportugal310 From Tokelau, joined Apr 2004, 3635 posts, RR: 2
Reply 95, posted (10 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7568 times:

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 93):
It seems to me like it should be a relatively simple matter of posting signs banning guns at the entrances if the City of Phoenix agrees that guns do not belong in PHX.

And what about those who need to check their guns?

Get's complicated real quick.



I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3642 posts, RR: 3
Reply 96, posted (10 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 7527 times:

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 92):
Why should it be?

Ahh, A.net, I knew someone would argue with me no matter how logical my point was. Never fails.

Tell me why walking around with a gun on your shoulder for the sole purpose of making a statement and terrifying people is a good idea? Furthermore, tell me why wasting airport police department resources to babysit this clown is necessary? Did you realize that some people thought this guy was an active shooter? What if one of those people had drawn their own weapon on him thinking he was a shooter? Are we going to have a gun battle down by the old baggage carousel at Sky Harbor?

This is another one of those instances where just because something is technically legal, doesn't make it a good idea.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 92):
You can't smoke anywhere indoors in a public building or a place of business (other than private membership-only lodges like a VFW Post or Elks Lodge).

Yeah, you missed the point. Shocker.

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 93):
I'm not trying to get into some gun rights debate because this is hardly the place for such a discussion, but my viewpoint on this (and likely the viewpoint of many sharing a similar sentiment) is that this is something that should have been banned all along. My stance isn't in reaction to any recent events, because all of that aside, airports are extremely sensitive places -- since 9/11 in particular -- and whether it be airside or landside, weapons do not belong in the hands of anyone not law enforcement. There are some places guns just don't need to be.

Exactly.

This has nothing to do with gun rights. I'll support the 2nd amendment all day long, but that's not the point. However, this guy carrying his gun into the airport and arming his 12 year old has nothing to do with self defense either. This jack wagon wanted to prove a point and do it just because he could and to draw attention to himself. This had nothing to do with legitimate firearm carry. As someone that enjoys the 2nd amendment freedoms of the state of AZ, people like this do nothing but hurt the cause for the rest of us.

Guns.don't.belong.in.airports. Just like they don't belong in bars or schools.

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 95):
And what about those who need to check their guns?

It's fairly easy to differentiate between carry pieces and firearms that you're checking.



PHX based
User currently offlinedlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 931 posts, RR: 1
Reply 97, posted (10 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 7504 times:

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 93):

        

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 95):
And what about those who need to check their guns?

Get's complicated real quick.

No it doesn't.

http://www.tsa.gov/traveler-information/firearms-and-ammunition
https://www.aa.com/i18n/travelInformation/baggage/firearms.jsp

How does that get complicated?

Quoting 777STL (Reply 96):

        



PHX Ramp, hottest place on earth
User currently offlinechrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 2114 posts, RR: 3
Reply 98, posted (10 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7438 times:

Quoting 777STL (Reply 96):
This jack wagon wanted to prove a point and do it just because he could and to draw attention to himself.

Here's the thing: this is Arizona. The same state where you had people armed with AR-15s and other long guns sitting in an RV "patrolling" the border. It shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone that something like this happened here.

Not at all bright, but certainly not surprising.

I find it ironic that this sign went up outside the D gate checkpoint at T4 on Friday.



User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7560 posts, RR: 18
Reply 99, posted (10 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 7421 times:

Quoting 777STL (Reply 96):

Guys can we stop talking about gun control here? if you wanna discuss this guy and his kid do it on the non-av forum



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlineatcsundevil From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1205 posts, RR: 2
Reply 100, posted (10 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 7404 times:

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 95):
And what about those who need to check their guns?

Get's complicated real quick.

They are in locked cases without ammunition, for starters. They would certainly not be in plain view or concealed for potential use. As noted above, TSA policy regarding checked firearms is very clear with little ambiguity. There's nothing to get complicated about that. You also don't need an apostrophe for "Gets", but that's a separate discussion.

Quoting 777STL (Reply 96):
Guns.don't.belong.in.airports. Just like they don't belong in bars or schools.

My point exactly -- all of your points are good ones. Airports are safe places regardless of what happened at LAX last week. If anything, they're safer now because airport police across the country have stepped up in reaction to those events. An Average Joe does not need his gun in places like airports because law enforcement is already present and in force. A douche with a rifle slung over his back with his 12-year-old son packing heat are many, many times more likely to cause more harm than good. Like you said, he just wanted attention.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 99):
Guys can we stop talking about gun control here? If you wanna discuss this guy and his kid do it on the non-av forum

No. This is a Phoenix Aviation Thread and it is a discussion relating to an incident that occurred at PHX. More than that, it is a valid discussion over whether this type of behavior should be permitted in the pre-security areas of the terminals. Please explain how that better falls under the category of "non-aviation" as opposed to a thread specific to this area discussing an event occurring at Sky Harbor?


User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2758 posts, RR: 1
Reply 101, posted (10 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 7401 times:

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 100):
No. This is a Phoenix Aviation Thread and it is a discussion relating to an incident that occurred at PHX. More than that, it is a valid discussion over whether this type of behavior should be permitted in the pre-security areas of the terminals. Please explain how that better falls under the category of "non-aviation" as opposed to a thread specific to this area discussing an event occurring at Sky Harbor?

You are correct with all of this.

I find this topic perfectly related to this thread, and anyone doesn't want to read about this, just skip over to the next post.....

Geeeeesch.......

 


User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3642 posts, RR: 3
Reply 102, posted (10 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 7426 times:

Quoting chrisair (Reply 98):
Here's the thing: this is Arizona. The same state where you had people armed with AR-15s and other long guns sitting in an RV "patrolling" the border. It shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone that something like this happened here.

Not at all bright, but certainly not surprising.

I find it ironic that this sign went up outside the D gate checkpoint at T4 on Friday.

I'm very well aware of that, I live in the valley.   I'm also not at all surprised, guns are like a religion here. And that's not a bad thing, until someone does something like this.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 99):
Guys can we stop talking about gun control here? if you wanna discuss this guy and his kid do it on the non-av forum

I'm not going to belabor the point, but it is PHX aviation related.



PHX based
User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5641 posts, RR: 6
Reply 103, posted (10 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 7376 times:

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 100):
whether this type of behavior should be permitted

And this is exactly why the US is devolving into a police state: the assumption that people have no inherent rights and that the government should have the power to do whatever they want to prevent others from feeling uncomfortable.

Quoting 777STL (Reply 96):
However, this guy carrying his gun into the airport and arming his 12 year old has nothing to do with self defense either. This jack wagon wanted to prove a point and do it just because he could and to draw attention to himself.

No argument there... however, there is no law (nor should there be a law) banning someone from being a "jack wagon" and drawing attention to themselves.

Quoting 777STL (Reply 96):
As someone that enjoys the 2nd amendment freedoms
Quoting 777STL (Reply 96):
Guns.don't.belong

Clearly you don't enjoy your freedoms enough to protect them.

Quoting 777STL (Reply 96):
how logical my point was

Your point had zero logic. You asked a rhetorical question with no explanation behind it.

Quoting 777STL (Reply 96):
Furthermore, tell me why wasting airport police department resources to babysit this clown is necessary?

Uh... because that's their job? I would hardly call it "wasting resources" when literally nothing else is going on.

Quoting 777STL (Reply 96):
Did you realize that some people thought this guy was an active shooter?

Unless he was firing off rounds, there was no reason to believe he was actively shooting. Logic fail.

Quoting 777STL (Reply 96):
What if one of those people had drawn their own weapon on him thinking he was a shooter?

They would have been charged with aggravated assault, and they have no business owning a gun themselves if they cannot follow the law.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3642 posts, RR: 3
Reply 104, posted (10 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 7371 times:

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 103):
And this is exactly why the US is devolving into a police state: the assumption that people have no inherent rights and that the government should have the power to do whatever they want to prevent others from feeling uncomfortable.

Here we go, how predictable, you're one of those paranoid "the government is trying to run our lives" types, aren't you?

This has nothing to do with your rights. Taking a gun into an airport for the sole purpose of inviting confrontation is WRONG. You're obviously pro-gun here and so am I. How do you not realize this behavior hurts our cause?

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 103):
Clearly you don't enjoy your freedoms enough to protect them.

Because marching around the airport while open carrying is protecting my rights? Sorry, I'm a rational human being, I don't get my rocks off from intimidating people and terrifying them at the airport.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 103):
Your point had zero logic. You asked a rhetorical question with no explanation behind it.

My point that carrying a loaded gun around an airport a day after we just had a shooting at another airport is pure insanity? Now you're just being obtuse.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 103):
Uh... because that's their job? I would hardly call it "wasting resources" when literally nothing else is going on.

From what I read, he had 5-6 officers following him around the airport, mostly to reassure the people that saw him carrying his weapon that he wasn't a threat. Yes, I think that's a waste of resources.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 103):
Unless he was firing off rounds, there was no reason to believe he was actively shooting. Logic fail.

Tell that to someone that's not accustomed to seeing gun toting rednecks marching around an airport. I can assure you, there will be a quite a few of them.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 103):
They would have been charged with aggravated assault, and they have no business owning a gun themselves if they cannot follow the law.

Once again, you're missing the point. The travesty is that we would have allowed it to happen in the first place by permitting these people to carry guns in the airport.



PHX based
User currently offlinejfritz From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 60 posts, RR: 0
Reply 105, posted (10 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 7317 times:

Moving on...has Spirit moved ops to KPHX yet?

User currently offlinetreebeard787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 659 posts, RR: 1
Reply 106, posted (10 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 7328 times:

Quoting jfritz (Reply 105):

Moving on...has Spirit moved ops to KPHX yet?


Yes, the red-eye to DFW has been operating since Oct 19th I think. DEN, ORD and MSP started today. They are using gate 25 at terminal 3.



Allons-y!
User currently offlinetreebeard787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 659 posts, RR: 1
Reply 107, posted (10 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 7192 times:

Interesting concept for a Terminal 4 update, it involves a new international concourse on the south side as well as making the N1 concourse capable of international flights.
http://phoenix.gov/citygovernment/ph...deoname=2013-11-6-subco-dar-s1.mp4



Allons-y!
User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5641 posts, RR: 6
Reply 108, posted (10 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 7140 times:

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 107):
Interesting concept for a Terminal 4 update, it involves a new international concourse on the south side as well as making the N1 concourse capable of international flights.

Good idea... there's not enough room currently if WN does start flying international routes out of PHX



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlinePHX Flyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 551 posts, RR: 0
Reply 109, posted (10 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 7122 times:

Quite exciting to see that someone tat there are still plans for additional international traffic ... The modifications in N4, with 4 large carousels with a planned completion in 2016 seems reasonable for now. I would hope that within the next two or three years we will get at least Lufthansa back, maybe also an Asian carrier, and Sky Harbor would at least be prepared to accommodate those. It remains to be seen how the US/AA merger will change the prospects of Sky Harbor as an international gateway, though. A few years ago, Doug Parker envisioned intercontinental flights to start around the middle of this decade, however, I would not bank on that, as things stand right now.

User currently offlineaztrainer From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 580 posts, RR: 1
Reply 110, posted (10 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 6830 times:

I have a question that I am hoping someone with more insight can share. I saw this PPD SUV with what (I think) is a CCTV or IR camera system on it. Does anyone know what the tan thing is on the top other than WALL-E?

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7442/10806181124_263fd8da1c_b.jpg
Looking at you by aztrainer72, on Flickr


User currently offlinechrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 2114 posts, RR: 3
Reply 111, posted (10 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6797 times:

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 110):
Does anyone know what the tan thing is on the top other than WALL-E?

Rocket launcher?  


User currently offlineatcsundevil From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1205 posts, RR: 2
Reply 112, posted (10 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6747 times:

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 110):

It repels honey badgers, mostly.


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7560 posts, RR: 18
Reply 113, posted (10 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 6655 times:

PHX promised to keep same level of service for at least 3 years. What about after?


次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlineBD338 From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 707 posts, RR: 0
Reply 114, posted (10 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6655 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 113):
PHX promised to keep same level of service for at least 3 years. What about after?

Promised to keep service for 3 years....BUT......how much that in around a year or so "extraordinary market conditions" means they chop big chunks from PHX? After 3 years....a near guarantee, cut to just enough service to satisfy local O&D to primary business markets.


User currently offlineosubuckeyes From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 710 posts, RR: 0
Reply 115, posted (10 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6664 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 113):
What about after?

Well all routes to current AA hubs will probably be right sized. PHX-FLL will probably be switched to MIA like before. Certain cities that don't have significant O&D from PHX will probably be cut, but I could possibly see some cities getting a shift in capacity from DFW to PHX especially if the DFW O&D is insignificant compared to PHX. These would be longer stage flights from DFW that are shorter from PHX with large O&D. At the same time I could also see them doing the opposite and cutting PHX significantly. I would imagine if there were cuts it would go from 300ish to 200ish.

Also it would be interesting to find out the stipulations of the promise, because it would not suprise me at all if they were able to just say "Oh, PHX doesn't make money we have to cut PHX to compete!"


User currently offlineatrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5692 posts, RR: 52
Reply 116, posted (10 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6651 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 113):
PHX promised to keep same level of service for at least 3 years. What about after?

Phoenix, Meet St. Louis. St. Louis, meet Phoenix.

Ironic since America West from PHX and TWA in STL once tried to merge..that would have been quite the merger back then.

The Three years thing was a sure thing that was going to happen. DOJ saw what happened with other mergers and hubs going away and whatnot. Especially after the lies and promises the airlines has made to their cities and government.

CLE had it right by setting the precedent with United by keeping the hub status quo for Five Years. I full expected that with this merger, surprised they only used three years and not five.

As someone who used STL entirely with TWA/AA back then and moved to Phoenix and fall under the US Hub and utilizes it, I know the same will happen.

The PHX Hub strived under US Airways Business plan, and you have to realize under the new plan with the new American, it has to be corrected and right sized, unless nearly everyone leaves Southwest and only books American. Not impossible but highly unlikely.

Phoenix will still be far bigger then St. Louis and will have many key note routes with Southwest and other carriers.

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlinedbo861 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 887 posts, RR: 1
Reply 117, posted (10 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 6606 times:

Quoting wn676 (Reply 73):
US will be replacing Express on PHX-DSM with mainline equipment beginning in January:

US564 PHX 0959 DSM 1352 319
US411 PHX 1950 DSM 2335 319

US530 DSM 0751 PHX 1002 319
US523 DSM 1459 PHX 1701 319

US' website shows these operating until 2/12 and then it returns to CR9s. I wonder if they just haven't updated the schedule beyond that point..PHX is one of the most popular destinations from DSM especially for spring break. I could see them making at least one of these flights mainline year round. If for no other reason than to deter WN from starting this route.


User currently offlinewn676 From Djibouti, joined Jun 2005, 1037 posts, RR: 4
Reply 118, posted (10 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 6586 times:

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 117):
US' website shows these operating until 2/12 and then it returns to CR9s. I wonder if they just haven't updated the schedule beyond that point..PHX is one of the most popular destinations from DSM especially for spring break. I could see them making at least one of these flights mainline year round. If for no other reason than to deter WN from starting this route.

I think 2/12 is the extent of the most current version. It's usually finalized about 3 months out.



Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7560 posts, RR: 18
Reply 119, posted (10 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6524 times:

As much as I respect WN's business plan, I really would not want to fly them. Most of my flying is TPAC, or long-distance domestic. The only way I can do that feasibly is using a legacy or AS to connect to a legacy. WN filling "spots" left over by cuts at PHX would not satisfy this for the international traveler at PHX.

BA.....well, they're doing fine on their own, right? And with PHX becoming a ow hub, I can only imagine them feeling more comfortable with their position at PHX.


The ever-rumored JL service to NRT?

Well, the more 787s they get, the more likely I see this happening now. especially since SAN is turning profits. But I wonder how much of a push the airport and the city of Phoenix will shove to pull JL, my least favorite Japanese airline, into PHX.....but, if they do come to PHX on a 788, that would indeed be my ride back to the valley.


If PHX wants to be a profitable AA hub, they need to show the management that they can be a better mountain west connecter over LAX.....I've always asserted that DFW is more of a centralized Megahub. ORD and LAX do not serve the west well enough...LAX for TPAC, sure, but the TPAC market at LAX is entirely too saturated.



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlinePHX Flyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 551 posts, RR: 0
Reply 120, posted (10 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6526 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 113):
PHX promised to keep same level of service for at least 3 years. What about after?




I do not think that the Phoenix hub will be harmed by the merger - quite to the contrary, actually: I believe that our chances are significantly better now than they were before to become an intercontinental gateway for the new American, and that it is no coincidence that just a few weeks ago the aviation subcommittee here in Phoenix asked for funds to increase the number of large baggage carousels in the international concourse from one to four. US Airways captures a lot of connecting traffic from California already, which would help feeding eastbound flights to Europe. And the incredibly successful introduction of the Hawaiian flights in the last decade shows that PHX also draws connecting traffic from the other directions. So, Japan and and China are definitely possible. Also, once the integration is complete, Qantas may want to ponder, how much sense it makes to add 1,600 mi to every round trip to get passengers to an American hub, when the bulk of the relevant connecting opportunities could be had much cheaper here in Phoenix.
Domestically, traffic on trunk routes will increase, the most probably between PHX and DFW. However, this would open a lot of connecting opportunities to the midwest that do not even exist today. Given the high load factors systemwide, it would not make sense to shuffle existing traffic from nonstop flights out of PHX to connections via DFW. Doing so would be outright foolish, because it would quickly diminish the frequent flyer base here in Arizona.


User currently offlineaztrainer From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 580 posts, RR: 1
Reply 121, posted (10 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6467 times:

I will weigh in on this and it is only conjecture on my part. I think it would be naive to think that PHX will not be effected by the combined US/AA. There will be a reduction of flights due to the network redundancy. What I can see is that others will come in and fill the gap that has developed. I also could see US/AA using PHX as a inter-west focus city. I could also see some flights to be moved from LAX IF they need the space for their TPAC flights. They could fly the "shuttle" service from PHX to LAX like HP and WN did in the 90's where they would have a flight depart every hour to LAX and between 06:00 to 10:00 and 15:00 to 19:00 they would have a flight every half hour.

With a combined population of 5 million in Maricopa County there are the people here. The only question is how much will it cost to make everyone equal and how that will effect the CSM and the profitability. If they start losing money on a route, they should cut it. Do I see this a gloom and doom for PHX, nope. Do I see changes coming to PHX, yep.

Lastly the only way PHX will become anything for an Asian destination would be on a 787 or 350. We do not have the draw to command a flight and if that is the case, they will not create the flight.


User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5641 posts, RR: 6
Reply 122, posted (10 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6445 times:

Quoting PHX+Flyer" class="quote" target="_blank">PHX Flyer (Reply 120):
and that it is no coincidence that just a few weeks ago the aviation subcommittee here in Phoenix asked for funds to increase the number of large baggage carousels in the international concourse from one to four.

I think that was more for WN's benefit than anyone else. I'm actually rather surprised they haven't announced anything yet.

I'm glad you're so optimistic, but there won't be any net expansion out of PHX, and likely a not-small net reduction in flights. People were willing to buy tickets at HP/US prices... I don't think they'd be willing to buy tickets at AA's prices.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlineaztrainer From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 580 posts, RR: 1
Reply 123, posted (10 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6419 times:

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 122):
I think that was more for WN's benefit than anyone else. I'm actually rather surprised they haven't announced anything yet.

I thought that was the same thing also. This way WN would not have to use the north side of T-4 and move all of their equipment over for flights. I can see WN using PHX as a gateway to Mexico due to our population and proximity to the border.


User currently offlinedlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 931 posts, RR: 1
Reply 124, posted (10 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6389 times:

So if US/AA drop some routes out of PHX could we see UA or DL pick up some of the dropped routes?

So when will see 738s and MD80s parked over at T4?



PHX Ramp, hottest place on earth
User currently offlinePHX Flyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 551 posts, RR: 0
Reply 125, posted (10 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6387 times:

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 122):
I think that was more for WN's benefit than anyone else.

Yes, definitely. Extra large baggage carousels is exactly what Southwest is lacking at Sky Harbor.


User currently offlinePHX Flyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 551 posts, RR: 0
Reply 126, posted (10 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6386 times:

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 121):
I will weigh in on this and it is only conjecture on my part. I think it would be naive to think that PHX will not be effected by the combined US/AA. There will be a reduction of flights due to the network redundancy. What I can see is that others will come in and fill the gap that has developed.

Of course there will be some changes, with increased capacity to the AA hubs and elimination of a marginal flight out of PHX here and there. But you fail to factor in the systemwide load factors, which are at record highs both at American and at US. If American starts feeding most passengers through DFW, they would also need additional capacity for the onward flights. But why is redundancy a bad thing: aside from the fact that PHX is one of the cheapest, if not the cheapest hub in the system, you want redundancy so that any adverse event does not immediately wreak havoc on your system. A snow storm in Chicago, a tornado in Dallas, a hurricane in Miami, a quake in L.A., ground delays at JFK for any reason you can think of - PHX does not have any of this - it is one of the most reliable hubs one could imagine. And if the new AA made the foolish decision to give it up anyhow, I would think that their entire frequent flyer base in AZ would fade away. Because in terms of hub geography, United would be the better choice for Arizona anyway - LAX and SFO for Asia/Pacific, Houston as the more pleasant alternative to DFW and MIA, and EWR/IAD offer more options than PHL/JFK for transatlantic travel.

[Edited 2013-11-13 13:18:07]

User currently offlinetreebeard787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 659 posts, RR: 1
Reply 127, posted (10 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6397 times:

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 124):

So if US/AA drop some routes out of PHX could we see UA or DL pick up some of the dropped routes?

So when will see 738s and MD80s parked over at T4?


PHX Ramp, hottest place on earth

It wouldn't surprise me to see AA move to T4 early in 2014, January or February maybe.



Allons-y!
User currently offlineaztrainer From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 580 posts, RR: 1
Reply 128, posted (10 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6375 times:

Quoting PHX+Flyer" class="quote" target="_blank">PHX Flyer (Reply 126):
Of course there will be some changes, with increased capacity to the AA hubs and elimination of a marginal flight out of PHX here and there. But you fail to factor in the systemwide load factors, which are at record highs both at American and at US. If American starts feeding most passengers through DFW, they would also need additional capacity for the onward flights. But why is redundancy a bad thing: aside from the fact that PHX is one of the cheapest, if not the cheapest hub in the system, you want redundancy so that any adverse event does not immediately wreak havoc on your system. A snow storm in Chicago, a tornado in Dallas, a hurricane in Miami, a quake in L.A., ground delays at JFK for any reason you can think of - PHX does not have any of this - it is one of the most reliable hubs one could imagine. And if the new AA made the foolish decision to give it up anyhow, I would think that their entire frequent flyer base in AZ would fade away. Because in terms of hub geography, United would be the better choice for Arizona anyway - LAX and SFO for Asia/Pacific, Houston as the more pleasant alternative to DFW and MIA, and EWR/IAD offer more options than PHL/JFK for transatlantic travel.

Yes, I know this and that is why I said that they cannot overload LAX of DFW like all of the pundits say. The problem with PHX is that it is 350 miles from LAX and since AA has such a large hub there they would probably move some of the flights to LAX. I can see PHX move to being a feeder from inter-west to LAX. I can see smaller flights going to PHX and filling larger planes to LAX and reducing the traffic numbers to LAX.

You are correct with PHX being one of the cheapest hubs in the system. It is all about CPSM.

As for the redundancy, that model will not ever happen. Planes only make money for an airline when they are in the air and not sitting on the ground. PHX is a great loaction for 9 months out of the year, but in the heat of the summer longer flights can and do take hits from the heat. I took a US flight to OGG and we have a weight restriction. People say that PHX is too far south, but the facts are that DFW and MIA are all further south than PHX.

PHX - 33 26' 11.51" N
LAX - 33 56' 30.74" N
DFW - 32 53' 42.55" N
MIA - 25 47' 45.05" N

Again, i was talking only about the new AA. I think that if there is a pull-down in any capacity that there will be others to fill the void. I would think that WN is salivating at this and to see what the effects will be. Also with NK moving from IWA/AZA to PHX could be interesting.


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11617 posts, RR: 61
Reply 129, posted (10 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6317 times:

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 128):
they cannot overload LAX of DFW like all of the pundits say.

LAX is relatively gate-constrained, but even there, there will soon be room for growth as several substantial facility changes are set to take place in the next 18 months that will give AA - even with a merger - some breathing room. DFW is not in danger of being "overloaded" at all and can easily handle more capacity - at least from facility standpoint.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 128):
I can see PHX move to being a feeder from inter-west to LAX. I can see smaller flights going to PHX and filling larger planes to LAX and reducing the traffic numbers to LAX.

This would never work. Nobody paying a fare high enough to make money for a merged AA will connect in PHX to get to LAX to connect to somewhere else. Besides, where would these people allegedly be connecting from? Virtually every city in the "inter-west" that US serves from PHX already has nonstop flights to LAX on AA. You'd pretty much have to go all the way east to the Great Plains to find many cities that (currently) have nonstop flights to PHX but not LAX.


User currently offlineRIDGID727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1122 posts, RR: 0
Reply 130, posted (10 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6290 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 129):
This would never work. Nobody paying a fare high enough to make money for a merged AA will connect in PHX to get to LAX to connect to somewhere else. Besides, where would these people allegedly be connecting from? Virtually every city in the "inter-west" that US serves from PHX already has nonstop flights to LAX on AA. You'd pretty much have to go all the way east to the Great Plains to find many cities that (currently) have nonstop flights to PHX but not LAX.

Agree with you. Although I do believe that Montana and NO & So Dakota and some parts of ID may be introduced to AA Regionals to PHX or DFW as AA-US digest their merger. Most LA bound or SO Cal or No Cal traffic connects through SLC, MSP, DEN. I do believe we will see the new AA perhaps introduce BZN, MSO, FCA, JAC, SUN, MOT, and a few others. Most MT cities bring on exceptionally high fares. AA may retry BOI again to DFW but not LAX--they failed miserably on that one.


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7560 posts, RR: 18
Reply 131, posted (10 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 6176 times:

I posted this question on my Facebook, where many Airliners users talk to me without the fear of being ripped apart by some of the more judgemental (and ignorant) users on this site...and they all seem to think that PHX will be the DEN of AA....and another friend messaged me and said the 787 to Asia is "inevitable." hmmm

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 121):
Lastly the only way PHX will become anything for an Asian destination would be on a 787 or 350. We do not have the draw to command a flight and if that is the case, they will not create the flight.

That's the only way I can see it as well....but It's what that plane was built for.



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlinePHX Flyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 551 posts, RR: 0
Reply 132, posted (10 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 6145 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 131):
they all seem to think that PHX will be the DEN of AA...

That's a vision that I share. The old American already had hubs in all the "premium" locations, but that did not exactly make them thrive. With PHX- DFW their operation would mirror the more northern axis of DEN-ORD. US has access to nearly 60 gates here in PHX, if you factor in the common use/international gates in N4. How many does AA have i n LAX - 15, 20 may be?


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7603 posts, RR: 24
Reply 133, posted (10 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 6149 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 131):
I posted this question on my Facebook, where many Airliners users talk to me without the fear of being ripped apart by some of the more judgemental (and ignorant) users on this site...and they all seem to think that PHX will be the DEN of AA....and another friend messaged me and said the 787 to Asia is "inevitable." hmmm

PHX will be the SLC of AA. You will have the daily European flight and maybe AA will eventually try a 787 to NRT but Im skeptical the later will work.

PHX is going to be a 150-200 flight a day operation with flights to all the major O&D destinations as well as the small cities in the Southwest and Mountain West. PHX is not going to be an international hub outside the BA flight to LHR, Canada, and Mexico. If Asia comes on board in the short term, it will be out of subsidy or after the rest of AA/US Asia network has fully matured.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5641 posts, RR: 6
Reply 134, posted (10 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 6083 times:

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 124):
So if US/AA drop some routes out of PHX could we see UA or DL pick up some of the dropped routes?

Unlikely, as there will be few actual mainline routes dropped, but we'll see a reduction in frequencies to certain cities.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 124):

So when will see 738s and MD80s parked over at T4?

After the holiday rush most likely. Maybe February or early March.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 133):
PHX will be the SLC of AA. You will have the daily European flight and maybe AA will eventually try a 787 to NRT but Im skeptical the later will work.

PHX is going to be a 150-200 flight a day operation with flights to all the major O&D destinations as well as the small cities in the Southwest and Mountain West.

  

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 133):
PHX is not going to be an international hub outside ... Canada, and Mexico.

If WN starts up a Mexico operation from PHX, kiss AA's goodbye. I can tell you this: Volaris is kicking butt with their GDL flight.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlinePHX Flyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 551 posts, RR: 0
Reply 135, posted (10 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 6056 times:

I looked at a couple of flights and one was actually sold out, the other one seemed pretty full. Most of the flights to GDL are operated by RJs. If I had teh choice between one of these and a full-sized jet, I would opt for the latter for a 3hr flight.
I think US could have done a much better job in the past developing the Arizona-Mexico market. So, if Southwest decided to start flying to Mexico from Sky Harbbor, they would be filling a void that US failed to occupy.


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7603 posts, RR: 24
Reply 136, posted (10 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 6046 times:

Quoting PHX Flyer (Reply 135):
I think US could have done a much better job in the past developing the Arizona-Mexico market. So, if Southwest decided to start flying to Mexico from Sky Harbbor, they would be filling a void that US failed to occupy.

As of right now, all the holes from Arizona to Mexico are filled. The major markets: HMO, CUN, MEX, and GDL are well covered. Perhaps in the same spirit of intra-west flying, we could see some expansion to smaller markets in Western Mexico. GYM, CEN, and LMM might work on some smaller RJ's.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlinePHX Flyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 551 posts, RR: 0
Reply 137, posted (10 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 6014 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 136):
we could see some expansion to smaller markets in Western Mexico. GYM, CEN, and LMM might work on some smaller RJ's.

Acapulco, Cozumel, and a buncah of smaller markets throughout Mexico, like Monterrey, Oaxaca, Veracruz, etc. United flies to about twenty destinations in Mexico. With all the feed from the West Coast plus the local volume, US ought to be able to do more. If not, someone else will, eventually.


User currently offlinecageyjames From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 321 posts, RR: 0
Reply 138, posted (10 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 6009 times:

How much of US' traffic to Mexico is local O&D vs hub traffic? I'm guessing pretty high isn't it?

User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7603 posts, RR: 24
Reply 139, posted (10 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 6013 times:

Quoting PHX+Flyer" class="quote" target="_blank">PHX Flyer (Reply 137):
Acapulco, Cozumel, and a buncah of smaller markets throughout Mexico, like Monterrey, Oaxaca, Veracruz, etc. United flies to about twenty destinations in Mexico. With all the feed from the West Coast plus the local volume, US ought to be able to do more. If not, someone else will, eventually.

No on most of this. DFW will handle the bulk of the Mexico flying for the airline. You wont see MTY, CZM, OAX, or VER from PHX at all. If there is any expansion in flying from PHX, it will be markets in the Northwest of Mexico that dont make geographic sense to serve from DFW.

PHX isnt going to be IAH, DFW, or LAX when it comes to Mexico flying. It has niether the O&D nor the hub pull that the others do.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineosubuckeyes From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 710 posts, RR: 0
Reply 140, posted (10 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 5988 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 139):
You wont see MTY, CZM, OAX, or VER from PHX at all. If there is any expansion in flying from PHX, it will be markets in the Northwest of Mexico that dont make geographic sense to serve from DFW.

I would think that there is a large portion of Mexican population that can connect in PHX from the North and West of PHX.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 139):
PHX isnt going to be IAH, DFW, or LAX when it comes to Mexico flying. It has niether the O&D nor the hub pull that the others do.

I don't think many airports can match LAX for O&D to Mexico, as far as IAH, and DFW I cannot imagine that the O&D is massively bigger than PHX, but if someone has those number please post.

IIRC, a number was posted somewhere in the earlier threads that about 35% of US's traffic was connections. It would not be too difficult to imagine reductions of capacity and possibly move from 6 banks to 5 and have a connection percentage of closer to 50, which should be significant enough to have a major operation. This can be done with downgrading A321s and A320s to A319s, as well as bringing out some E jets to replace some A320s, A319s.


User currently offlineallegiantFlyer From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 177 posts, RR: 0
Reply 141, posted (10 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 5997 times:

Quick question, Since AA has to keep PHX for 3 years.... when does this countdown clock start? has it already or when the merger is complete?

User currently offlineosubuckeyes From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 710 posts, RR: 0
Reply 142, posted (10 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 5972 times:

Quoting allegiantFlyer (Reply 141):
has it already or when the merger is complete?

Probably when the merger deal is closed, but there is a part of the settlement where this agreement is null if the "competitive landscape changes".


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7603 posts, RR: 24
Reply 143, posted (10 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 5960 times:

Quoting osubuckeyes (Reply 140):
I don't think many airports can match LAX for O&D to Mexico, as far as IAH, and DFW I cannot imagine that the O&D is massively bigger than PHX, but if someone has those number please post.

Actually, DFW/IAH-Mexico are much, much larger than PHX-Mexico. O&D data is below:

IAH-Mexico: 997,000 passengers per year or 1,365 PDEW
DFW-Mexico: 680,000 passengers per year or 932 PDEW
PHX-Mexico: 258,000 passengers per year or 353 PDEW

IAH-MEX by itself is larger than PHX-all of Mexico

Looking at the data, the reason why PHX does not have as much service to Mexico is very clear. That wont change with the merger. What it may open up are some smaller cities, but dont expect a huge expansion by anyone in the PHX-Mexico market.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11617 posts, RR: 61
Reply 144, posted (10 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 5957 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 131):
the more judgemental (and ignorant) users on this site

  

I see ... so "ignorant" = expressing uncomfortable facts you don't have an answer for.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 131):
and they all seem to think that PHX will be the DEN of AA

And that means what, exactly?

PHX doesn't have the linkages to smaller Rocky Mountain communities DEN has. And PHX can't be a viable east-west hub for the Pacific Northwest as DEN can. So what we're down to - as a hub, allegedly - is basically Arizona, California and Hawaii. But again, AA already has bigger, stronger and/or better hubs capable of handle virtually all those same connections.

So why, exactly, do you need PHX, as the "DEN of AA" or any other type of major hub? Going on a year now ... and still waiting for a cogent answer to this.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 131):
and another friend messaged me and said the 787 to Asia is "inevitable."

  


User currently offlineosubuckeyes From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 710 posts, RR: 0
Reply 145, posted (10 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 5930 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 144):
So why, exactly, do you need PHX, as the "DEN of AA" or any other type of major hub? Going on a year now ... and still waiting for a cogent answer to this.

The question becomes is US capable of serving the bulk of the connecting traffic from the other hubs? I would think that it would put a strain on DFW since that is a high concentration of additional capacity. Also, LAX does not really serve connecting flows that is more local market so moving flights from PHX to LAX mostly would not be in play.

I don't see how PHX is inferior to DFW in connecting markets Cali-Midwesst/Northeast/Plains. PHX-SoCal is a massive O&D market even to the secondary airports I would think just cutting all connections would be fore fitting potentially beneficial traffic flows. I am not saying PHX will be expanded, but I do not see it being cut to nothing. I also would not be surprised to see a limited expansion to some smaller communities on the West Coast and Rockies in terms of destinations in sacrifice of the excess capacities on certain routes. Overall I could see 225-250 flight operation with less capacity per flight, not necessarily express, and possibly 5-10 new destinations. Just one scenario, there are a million different things that can happen I guess we can just wait and see.


User currently offlinePHX Flyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 551 posts, RR: 0
Reply 146, posted (10 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 5913 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 144):
PHX doesn't have the linkages to smaller Rocky Mountain communities DEN has ...So what we're down to - as a hub, allegedly - is basically Arizona, California and Hawaii.

Calfornia is a much better area to draw from than Rocky Mountain communities. There are a lot of folks in Santa Ana, Burbank, etc. who prefer a connection via PHX over a car ride to LAX to connect a nonstop flight. And US serves quite a few smaller California airports.


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11617 posts, RR: 61
Reply 147, posted (10 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 5919 times:

Quoting PHX+Flyer" class="quote" target="_blank">PHX Flyer (Reply 146):
Calfornia is a much better area to draw from than Rocky Mountain communities.

Completely agree. The problem for PHX is that this is the same reason why everyone offers tons of flights in and out of California cities large and small - including AA today. It's not really a traffic flow PHX can dominate or bank on economically. Contrast that with DEN which, while highly competitive, can draw upon connections to/from a region it dominates - the Rocky Mountain region - to diversify its feed instead of just relying on highly competitive east-west connections. PHX has nothing like this. It is in an inferior geographic position compared to DEN so the only states where it really serves as a viable connecting point are Arizona, California and Hawaii. But other AA hubs are already as good if not better at serving virtually all of those same markets as PHX. So again - why have two (or three, or more) hubs serving basically the exact same purpose? Especially when one of those hubs is built to a greater extent on lower-yielding connections?


User currently offlinePHX Flyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 551 posts, RR: 0
Reply 148, posted (10 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 5909 times:

Quoting PHX Flyer (Reply 146):
So again - why have two (or three, or more) hubs serving basically the exact same purpose? Especially when one of those hubs is built to a greater extent on lower-yielding connections?

Because it costs less. And generally, the yields at US suffice to pay the bills and then some.


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11617 posts, RR: 61
Reply 149, posted (10 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 5896 times:

Quoting PHX+Flyer" class="quote" target="_blank">PHX Flyer (Reply 148):
Because it costs less.

It costs less to have two hubs serving the same function? I don't think so.

Quoting PHX+Flyer" class="quote" target="_blank">PHX Flyer (Reply 148):
And generally, the yields at US suffice to pay the bills and then some.

Indeed the yields do suffice to pay the bills today. At the cost levels of a merged company? I have my doubts, to put it mildly. AA's network is already largely optimized to make lots of money at higher cost levels - as the last year illustrates. And USAirways' eastern U.S. network, too, can be relatively painlessly optimized to make money at those same cost levels with some capacity rationalization. But PHX? I struggle to see how it can make money at the merged airline's higher cost levels without some radical, substantial changes in capacity.


User currently offlinePHX Flyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 551 posts, RR: 0
Reply 150, posted (10 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 5882 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 149):
It costs less to have two hubs serving the same function? I don't think so.

I don't think DFW and PHX serve the same function. They are almost 900 mi apart, more than the distance between DFW and ORD.

And - to answer your question: yes, I think having more smaller hubs than a couple of big ones does save money. The less hubs you have, the more increases the stage length of your flights (assuming a nationwide network). The more connecting points you have, the closer you can keep each passenger's trip to the ideal great circle route, and the more you save on operating cost to get them from their point of origin to their final destination.

[Edited 2013-11-14 17:03:09]

[Edited 2013-11-14 17:04:20]

User currently offlineosubuckeyes From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 710 posts, RR: 0
Reply 151, posted (10 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 5881 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 149):
AA's network is already largely optimized to make lots of money at higher cost levels - as the last year illustrates. And USAirways' eastern U.S. network, too, can be relatively painlessly optimized to make money at those same cost levels with some capacity rationalization.

And as Parker's record indicates he is really good at reeling in higher costs and making the most out of network premiums. That is definitely his management style. Lets look at how he has done this at PHX. PHX has some of the lowest operating costs of any hub, which is a good start although not really in US's control. During the transition from HP to US Parker minimized the amount of express flying and tried to maximized the amount of seats per departure. That is why you have such a high concentration of mainline capacity at PHX. This helps combat low yields by reducing seat miles. This can still be done in an post AA merger world by introducing select new destinations that have limited or no feed from other hubs and simultaneously reducing aircraft size to slowly bring premiums up particularly on routes where there is limited competition.

I think the thing a lot of people are missing is that 50 seat capacity is going to be slashed and most of that current capacity comes from mostly current AA hubs.


User currently offlineCloneof501 From United States of America, joined Aug 2011, 44 posts, RR: 0
Reply 152, posted (10 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 5880 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 119):
WN filling "spots" left over by cuts at PHX would not satisfy this for the international traveler at PHX.

This makes no sense. Except Mexico and Canada, the only international flight is BA to LHR. Face it: PHX is not an international powerhouse. The JL flight everyone talks about is more dream than reality.

And mind you, I'm a fan of PHX so if anything I'd be biased towards them.


Here's an interesting article any PHX fans should check out on how PHX might look post-merger:

http://centreforaviation.com/analysi...-chance-than-logic-suggests-117043


User currently offlineBP1 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 593 posts, RR: 1
Reply 153, posted (10 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 5860 times:

I was on the team that came to PHX back in 1995 to ramp up the operations for the inauguration in 1996.

INAUGURAL: July 1, 1996
AIRCRAFT: DC-10-30 (Old BCAL in BA colors)
CLASSES: First, Club World, Economy
ROUTE: London Gatwick - Phoenix - San Diego - Phoenix - London Gatwick
FREQUENCY: (4) days a week

UPGRADES: Flight has upgraded to a 777 and then to a 747-400
UPGRADES: The San Diego sector was eventually dropped and SAN picked up a non-stop
UPGRADES: Flight frequency moved to 5, then 6 days per week
UPGRADES: London Gatwick was moved to London Heathrow
UPGRADES: 2012 - Frequency increased to 7 days a week.

PARTNERSHIPS: We partnered with America West for a while to feed the flight. This was a great relationship and feed the flight each day.

UK - PHX TRAFFIC: At one point, the numbers were 60-70% UK/Europeans on the flight in the 1990's. That number fluctuates these days. Be interesting to see how AA will now feed with the merger through PHX.

I don't work for BA, but cannot wait to earn miles again as a loyal USAirways flyer but now as an AAflyer in a month of two. I have used UA and US for the LHR flights to keep miles, but to be back on To Fly To Serve, that is a great thing.

During the Summer of 2008, at the height of the Great Recession, The Arizona Office of Tourism and The City of Phoenix granted $650,000 USD to British Airways to be spent in 2008 and 2009 to "Boost demand on the flight." (PHX-LHR) The link is below:

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/stories/2008/06/16/story9.html

When we started up service from Phoenix, the City of Phoenix Aviation Department was beyond professional and supportive, not just in luring BA, but during those critical start up years, and from my friends at BA, they still are today. Deborah, Ann, Dutch and their teams were miraculous and really rolled out the red carpet for us 1995, 1996, 1997 and 1998. The City was very aggressive on their pitch to us and those details, I believe, are confidential but very attractive.

The deal with America West is attached from June 2006.

http://www.airlineinfo.com/dotorders/960624.pdf



"First To Fly The A-380" / 26 October 2007 SYD-SIN Inaugural
User currently offlinedlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 931 posts, RR: 1
Reply 154, posted (10 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 5776 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 131):
and another friend messaged me and said the 787 to Asia is "inevitable." hmmm

Here we go again.... I hate to be considered one of the "judgemental" posters here but it does not make sense. With LAX and DFW please explain why the new AA would launch asia service?

I want to see international service out of PHX like everyone else but why just focus on asia....



PHX Ramp, hottest place on earth
User currently offlineatcsundevil From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1205 posts, RR: 2
Reply 155, posted (10 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 5756 times:

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 154):
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 131):
and another friend messaged me and said the 787 to Asia is "inevitable." hmmm

Here we go again.... I hate to be considered one of the "judgemental" posters here but it does not make sense. With LAX and DFW please explain why the new AA would launch asia service?

I want to see international service out of PHX like everyone else but why just focus on asia....
PHX787, I suggest you take some time to search back through this forum to see the decade-long discussion on the very subject of PHX-Asia service. If I had a dollar for every time someone said the flight is "inevitable" or that the flight will definitely be a huge success, I'd have enough money to start my own airline, open a PHX-Asia route, just to lose all of the money again.

An Asia route or additional service to Europe has been called "inevitable" by mysterious, unnamed sources on this site countless times, yet no one seems to get the message. dlramp4life is 100% correct. Why the hell would AA or US launch Asia service in a non-existent market to a region US is completely absent and AA is considerably weaker than UA or DL? LAX-Asia? Yes. DFW-Asia? Yes. PHL-Asia? Far more likely than PHX. Their priorities are at just about every other existing hub. PHX is, and will always be, the red-headed step-child for as long as it is kept as a hub.

Even the likes of JL or NH have no benefit in serving PHX when there are at least a half-dozen other US markets they currently don't serve that would produce a much more profitable and reliable result.

People just need to give it up... There's a point where those who are optimistic become naïve -- that point has long ago come and gone. But predictably, despite what I say as well as others here who understand that it's little more than a pipe dream, there will still be many who will drone on and on for the next decade about this "inevitable" service to Asia.


User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3642 posts, RR: 3
Reply 156, posted (10 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5673 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 119):
As much as I respect WN's business plan, I really would not want to fly them. Most of my flying is TPAC, or long-distance domestic. The only way I can do that feasibly is using a legacy or AS to connect to a legacy. WN filling "spots" left over by cuts at PHX would not satisfy this for the international traveler at PHX.

What's the difference? There's one transatlantic flight out of PHX, if you fly TPAC as much as you say you do, you're going to have to connect through somewhere anyway, probably LAX. Even in a post merger apocalyptic world, I don't see PHX-LAX, that's operated by several different airlines other than WN, going anywhere.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 133):
PHX will be the SLC of AA. You will have the daily European flight and maybe AA will eventually try a 787 to NRT but Im skeptical the later will work.

This, I agree with. DEN is a fairly large sized hub that has its own niche in UA's network. PHX has far more redundancies in a post merger AA network than DEN did at the time of the UA/CO merger. I also see PHX becoming more of a western regional hub than a network hub such as DEN.

Quoting atrude777 (Reply 116):
As someone who used STL entirely with TWA/AA back then and moved to Phoenix and fall under the US Hub and utilizes it, I know the same will happen.

I'm not that pessimistic. PHX might be right sized to a 200 flight/day operation, but it won't be reduced down to 25 flights/day or whatever STL is at now.



PHX based
User currently offline93Sierra From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 418 posts, RR: 0
Reply 157, posted (10 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5641 times:

Phx-Asia is a pipe dream. Like others have stated, LAX and or SFO are normally very accessible and offer a variety of established carriers. I think that another European city ( chances still slim ) is a more likely option. Does anyone see this affecting IWA at all either positive or negative?

User currently offlinedlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 931 posts, RR: 1
Reply 158, posted (10 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5627 times:

Quoting 93Sierra (Reply 157):
Does anyone see this affecting IWA at all either positive or negative?

I don't think IWA will be affected G4 is doing fine out there and they are growing. NK is at PHX now and I assume their loads are steady. F9 is out of IWA expect for casino charters. But with the merger happening I don't think IWA will see anything different. Before F9 pulled out I thought they were going to move all operations out to IWA.



PHX Ramp, hottest place on earth
User currently offlineCloneof501 From United States of America, joined Aug 2011, 44 posts, RR: 0
Reply 159, posted (10 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5606 times:

Quoting 777STL (Reply 156):
I'm not that pessimistic. PHX might be right sized to a 200 flight/day operation, but it won't be reduced down to 25 flights/day or whatever STL is at now.

I agree. Like someone said, DFW and PHX are really far apart. STL and ORD are only about 300 mi apart, so that speaks for itself regarding the pulldown.

Being realistic, I think that PHX will be drawn down, but it won't be killed off to the extent that people are proclaiming. Something around 200 flights a day would be fine. WN can pick up some slack on the flights US drop. You have to remember that PHX hasn't been growing the past few years to begin with. YoY the traffic has been stable/seen slight cuts. So there's no way we'd see growth at PHX post-merger. And 200 flights a day is by no means a shabby figure.


User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3642 posts, RR: 3
Reply 160, posted (10 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5606 times:

Quoting 93Sierra (Reply 157):
I think that another European city ( chances still slim ) is a more likely option.

I'm of the opinion that a German city, perhaps FRA seasonally, could be made to work. Unfortunately, with US leaving *A, the odds of LH doing that are now pretty slim, and I don't see AA doing it in the near term. Airberlin might be a possibility at some point though.

Quoting 93Sierra (Reply 157):
Does anyone see this affecting IWA at all either positive or negative?

Doubtful. Sky Harbor has plenty of capacity so IWA doesn't function as a reliever hub. I don't see much changing over there, good or bad.