Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
ATC Services In The Wake Of Government Shutdown  
User currently offlinemhkansan From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 659 posts, RR: 1
Posted (9 months 2 weeks ago) and read 5212 times:

Politics aside, what happens when the government shuts down with regards to US air traffic controllers? Will the nation's airspace grind to a halt, or is the FAA already funded through some emergency savings for a couple days?

I heard a commentator on a certain network say good riddance the government won't be operating - everything's a waste of money, etc... Well, my job's kind of out the window if the planes can't get clearance to take off and land.

33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinejetblueguy22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 2741 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (9 months 2 weeks ago) and read 5193 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

My understanding is that all essential government operations are still run. ATC is under that banner, along with law enforcement, and the military. What exactly is run I am not sure. But I'm 99.9% sure that the Air Traffic Control system will operate as normal.
Pat



You push down on that yoke, the houses get bigger, you pull back on the yoke, the houses get bigger- Ken Foltz
User currently offlineGoBoeing From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 2682 posts, RR: 14
Reply 2, posted (9 months 2 weeks ago) and read 5183 times:

I would honestly be okay with just having all airports everywhere be an uncontrolled airport and just fly all the way up into the flight levels of class A airspace using TCAS and visual reference to avoid other airplanes. It'd be a lot of fun for a few days! No separation rules, fly a mile behind another plane on landing, no waiting for another plane to clear the runway, just make sure they're really far up there, etc. Takeoff 10 seconds after someone else as long as it's not larger than your own plane, and so on. I bet it'd be almost just as safe anyway. Let's do it!

User currently onlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21423 posts, RR: 56
Reply 3, posted (9 months 2 weeks ago) and read 5148 times:

During the last government shutdown, ATC get hit hard. Planes still flew, but delays were extensive, particularly into congested areas as the facilities didn't have the staffing they needed. This got rectified very quickly, as Congress didn't want to have to deal with those delays on their flights home for vacation.

Thus, I would doubt that there will be any issues this time around.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinehoMsar From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1148 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (9 months 2 weeks ago) and read 5112 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 3):
During the last government shutdown, ATC get hit hard. Planes still flew, but delays were extensive, particularly into congested areas as the facilities didn't have the staffing they needed. This got rectified very quickly, as Congress didn't want to have to deal with those delays on their flights home for vacation.

Thus, I would doubt that there will be any issues this time around.

Are you thinking of the sequester from earlier this year? That's an entirely different thing from a government shutdown.



I was raised by a cup of coffee.
User currently onlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21423 posts, RR: 56
Reply 5, posted (9 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5093 times:

Quoting hoMsar (Reply 4):
Are you thinking of the sequester from earlier this year? That's an entirely different thing from a government shutdown.

I was, and you're correct that it's different, but I still don't think there will be any noticeable effect.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinebohica From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2661 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (9 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5010 times:

The first thing that should happen if the government shuts down is to close DCA. That alone should be enough incentive for Congress to get off their butts and do whatever is necessary to avoid a shutdown.

User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3901 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (9 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4875 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Apparently, under the DOT's plan, a third of all FAA employees will be labelled non-essential and furloughed. This will affect mostly administrative employees and ATC staffing will remain at current levels (including support positions) but the Office of Aviation Safety will be all but shut down, operating with little more than 10% of its usual staff.

Airport inspections and medical certifications will continue, but audits and inspection of other facilities and background investigations will be suspended.

If the shutdown lasts more than 2 weeks, the DOT plans to gradually bring back up to 3,000 more FAA employees whose function can be considered non-essential for only a limited amount of time.



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlinewagz From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 516 posts, RR: 17
Reply 8, posted (9 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4637 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Mir (Reply 5):

We'll be here but supposedly not getting paid. I'm thrilled at that prospect.

As far as sequester goes that threat reappears in a couple months and is separate from the current govt shutdown.



I think Big Foot is blurry, Its not the photographers fault. Theres a large out of focus monster roaming the countryside
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16793 posts, RR: 51
Reply 9, posted (9 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4584 times:

Non essential Government employees are furloughed, essential (law enforcement, ATC, military etc..) have to go to work but are not payed (they will be paid retroactively when Government resumes normal operations).


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinekrsw757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 106 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (9 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4376 times:

From what I've been hearing the only ATC people that could be affected would be trainees not certified on anything. So training will stop and they will be furloughed. Again this is just what people here are saying and may not be true.

User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3901 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (9 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4189 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting wagz (Reply 8):
We'll be here but supposedly not getting paid. I'm thrilled at that prospect.

Supposedly wages will be paid back once the shutdown ends, if Congress makes it so... I wouldn't want to be in your shoes though.

Quoting krsw757 (Reply 11):
From what I've been hearing the only ATC people that could be affected would be trainees not certified on anything.

Correct.



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineLONGisland89 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 723 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4037 times:

Have any of you ATC guys heard about when the academy will come back online? A few weeks ago I heard something about RTF ramping back up in October and tower in November. Now I'm hearing no new classes till January.

User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7083 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (9 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3896 times:

As others have said ATC will be fine. Essential employees are a lot of people. Armed Forces, Intelligence, Law Enforcement, National Weather Service, FEMA, TSA, will all be up and running. Things that get shut down are things like secretaries and admin staff at the FAA or FBI, the GSA, EPA, Dept of Education, Library of Congress, National Parks...

Federal courts remain open for at least a few weeks.

So I wouldn't expect many problems if any. Does suck that ATC won't be paid but I doubt it will last longer than a week. Only time will tell, and they will all get their pay checks retroactively.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlinesilentbob From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2031 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (9 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3861 times:

Quoting flymia (Reply 14):
Federal courts remain open for at least a few weeks.

Hopefully this doesn't end up impacting the US/AA merger case.


User currently onlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4406 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (9 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3716 times:

Just a nit: It's being incorrectly reported as a "Government Shutdown" - it is not, as the conversation in this thread indicates.

User currently offlineatct From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2259 posts, RR: 39
Reply 16, posted (9 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3553 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 9):
but are not payed

I was told this morning that us ATC'ers are under exempted status, aka we go to work and get paid. We can't legally work traffic without being paid. As far as staff, they're on furlough. Now as I am on leave at the end of the month, if nothing changes, its Leave Without Pay or Furlough status for my of vacation. I can choose to come to work and be paid, or take my leave as furlough. Caribbean here I come!



"The way to get started is to quit talking and begin doing." - Walt Disney
User currently offlinemhkansan From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 659 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (9 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 3378 times:

And so tonight, it is done.

Hopefully everything will run smoothly tomorrow. So far as aviation is concerned, this is going better than the sequester so far.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16793 posts, RR: 51
Reply 18, posted (9 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3063 times:

[

Quoting atct (Reply 16):
I was told this morning that us ATC'ers are under exempted status, aka we go to work and get paid.



No you guys, along with Federal Law enforcement, military etc.. are "excepted".

Meaning you still go to work and will not be paid until the Government resumes normal operations. That could be before the next pay period or that could be a month from now. The pay period just ended, you should have been paid this weekend, meaning if the Government resumes normal operations before the next pay period your next pay will not be affected. However if this continues into the next pay period (or further) then you will not be paid. Whenever this crisis is resolved, also the Debt ceiling, the pay will resume.

Federal workers who are "excepted" will continue to work, however they will not be paid until the first pay period after the Government resumes normal operations. That pay will include retro-active pay for the period workers came to work during the Goverment shut-down.

Also all leave has been cancelled, scheduled, sick etc.. If you call out sick or take a scheduled vacation you will be placed into LWOP or furlogh status and will not be paid for those days when Government resumes normal operations.

I hope that cleared things up, your Unions and Executive staff should have briefed you yesterday,



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinekrsw757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 106 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (9 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3009 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 18):

Thanks for clarifying, I worked last night here at jax center and we weren't told anything.


User currently onlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4406 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (9 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2822 times:

So... are there any horrendous amount of delays today?

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16793 posts, RR: 51
Reply 21, posted (9 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2788 times:

Quoting N62NA (Reply 20):
So... are there any horrendous amount of delays today?



Why should there be, no air traffic controlers were furloghed.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinerickabone From United States of America, joined May 2006, 127 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (9 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2640 times:

The FAA is far from fully funded, but in this case there is a separation between 'essential' and 'non-essential' employees and services. We (ATC) are considered essential so we must show up to work, but the people who process our pay are considered non-essential so we wouldn't get paid if this lasts more than a week or two. Also, though some of the Tech Ops staff (those who maintain and fix the system) are considered essential, they are only essential for fixing things when in breaks, not for continuing maintenance or upkeep so projects will get delayed and that adds to cost.

User currently offlinemmedford From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 561 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (9 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2551 times:

Quoting rickabone (Reply 22):
Also, though some of the Tech Ops staff (those who maintain and fix the system) are considered essential, they are only essential for fixing things when in breaks, not for continuing maintenance or upkeep so projects will get delayed and that adds to cost.

Excuse me?

Preventative MX & Corrective MX goes hand in hand...also what you are unaware of; is that the systems (the displays, voiceswitches, radars, etc..) you use require periodic certifications. Without it; it will be removed from the NAS.



ILS = It'll Land Somewhere
User currently offlineKLASM83 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 622 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (9 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2485 times:

Quoting LONGisland89 (Reply 12):
Have any of you ATC guys heard about when the academy will come back online? A few weeks ago I heard something about RTF ramping back up in October and tower in November. Now I'm hearing no new classes till January.

I've been hearing the same thing. Woo, the line gets longer and longer!



Don't you want to hang out and waste your life with us?
User currently offlineBA677 From UK - England, joined Jan 2012, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (9 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2567 times:

Quoting GoBoeing (Reply 2):
Quoting GoBoeing (Reply 2):
I would honestly be okay with just having all airports everywhere be an uncontrolled airport and just fly all the way up into the flight levels of class A airspace using TCAS and visual reference to avoid other airplanes. It'd be a lot of fun for a few days! No separation rules, fly a mile behind another plane on landing, no waiting for another plane to clear the runway, just make sure they're really far up there, etc. Takeoff 10 seconds after someone else as long as it's not larger than your own plane, and so on. I bet it'd be almost just as safe anyway. Let's do it!

Lol,    

What have you been taking? Can I have some 

And what about the little planes, if there are no controllers to watch and or help them. After a while I bet they will start to enter class B and get in the way for that short cut.


User currently onlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4406 posts, RR: 6
Reply 26, posted (9 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2554 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 21):
Why should there be, no air traffic controlers were furloghed.

Well... according to MSNBC a few days ago, there were going to be "big delays!" But then again, it was MSNBC.  


User currently offlinekrsw757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 106 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (9 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2480 times:

From an ATC standpoint there shouldn't be any delays from this since all of us are still working, just not being paid.

User currently offlinetommytoyz From Tonga, joined Jan 2007, 1353 posts, RR: 6
Reply 28, posted (9 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1990 times:

Not directly ATC related, but Jetblue is not able to take delivery of their first A321. I wonder if no US airlines can take delivery of any new planes while the US government is shut down, how many new planes will pile up undelivered?

User currently offlinemmedford From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 561 posts, RR: 9
Reply 29, posted (9 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1817 times:

Quoting tommytoyz (Reply 28):

Not directly ATC related, but Jetblue is not able to take delivery of their first A321. I wonder if no US airlines can take delivery of any new planes while the US government is shut down, how many new planes will pile up undelivered?

The people that handles the paperwork for aircraft registrations aren't there...not the end of the world.



ILS = It'll Land Somewhere
User currently offlinetommytoyz From Tonga, joined Jan 2007, 1353 posts, RR: 6
Reply 30, posted (9 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1705 times:

Quoting mmedford (Reply 29):
The people that handles the paperwork for aircraft registrations aren't there...not the end of the world.

Manufacturers won't deliver nor get paid. If this goes on a month or more, there will be a lot of new planes parked.


User currently offlineDreamflight767 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 85 posts, RR: 0
Reply 31, posted (9 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1432 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I'll add some clarity.

Since Tuesday Oct. 1, Controllers have been officially Air Traffic Control Volunteers. So long as the government is "shut down," we work but don't get paid. No pay check.

They (who ever that is) informs us we can expect back-pay. But when the agency does back-pay, it's at their leisure, when convenient, if it's even remembered, and if it's done correctly the first time. Back-pay sometimes takes a year +.

That being said I'll make two points:

-Only because of the dedication and professionalism of Controllers has been no effect on the system. We plug-in & move traffic, paid or not.

-During this crap, all "non-essential" employees have been furlough. But, as I just pointed out, the system is running. This makes us Controllers wonder why in the hell "non-essential" employees exist in the first place.


User currently offlineLONGisland89 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 723 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (9 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1365 times:

Quoting Dreamflight767 (Reply 31):
This makes us Controllers wonder why in the hell "non-essential" employees exist in the first place.

Without "non-essential" employees, you'd have no one prepared in the pipeline to replace you when you retire.


User currently offlinekrsw757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 106 posts, RR: 0
Reply 33, posted (9 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1198 times:

Quoting Dreamflight767 (Reply 31):

Couldn't have said it better myself.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Who Won't Become A Pilot In The Wake Of 9/11? posted Thu Sep 27 2001 21:53:59 by Jet joc
9 Days In The Life Of A Delta 777LR posted Sun Jun 9 2013 19:55:29 by akelley728
Airport In The Middle Of The Amazonas Jungle? posted Mon Feb 25 2013 05:47:06 by mozart
Virgin Atlantic: "Flying In The Face Of Ordinary" posted Mon Feb 18 2013 10:11:18 by sq_ek_freak
Trinidad And Tobago Air Services In The 1970s. posted Sun Jul 15 2012 10:22:30 by doulasc
Manx2 Crash Landing In The Isle Of Man posted Sat Mar 10 2012 12:01:31 by Cabincrewifly
BA To Hire A/c In The Event Of Strikes. posted Thu Mar 11 2010 07:12:45 by SPEEDBIRD174
Airport In The Middle Of The Ocean In So.Cal posted Sat Oct 24 2009 21:36:53 by SuseJ772
Air Travel In The Days Of Segregation posted Mon Mar 9 2009 13:49:50 by Yflyer
AA 9251 MIA-DCA-LGA In The Middle Of The Night? posted Mon Dec 1 2008 08:11:39 by RJpieces