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Where Next In Europe For SQ?  
User currently offline9MMPD From Australia, joined Oct 2005, 286 posts, RR: 1
Posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 9075 times:

With SQ announcing that they will return to ATH during the peak Northern Summer Season (see link for details), it got me thinking where next in Europe SQ might fly to.
http://www.singaporeair.com/jsp/cms/...UK/press_release_news/ne130930.jsp

They currently fly to

London, Manchester, Paris, Barcelona, Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Frankfurt, Munich, Zurich, Milan, Rome, Istanbul, Moscow and soon Athens again. Could we see them in BRU, ARN, GVA, MAD, VIE in the near future or maybe even somewhere in Eastern Europe like PRG?

44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMortyman From Norway, joined Aug 2006, 4055 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 8605 times:

OSL might also be a possibility

User currently offlineLOT767SP-LPA From Poland, joined May 2002, 161 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 8559 times:

I have heard that SQ looking to open WAW from summer 2015 but it is just the rumors I think.

User currently offlineLondonCity From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 1518 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 8525 times:

SQ used to serve BRU in the past. Didn't SQ also serve VIE until recently ?

The point is that SQ originally expended rapidly in Europe in the 70s and 80s but a large chunk of its market (to SE Asia and Australasia) has been captured by the Gulf airlines.

Traffic out of MAN, for example, dipped so that SQ no longer flies MAN-SIN non-stop.


User currently offlineLO231 From Belgium, joined Sep 2004, 2392 posts, RR: 22
Reply 4, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 7863 times:

SQ was very present in BRU before, extended to MAN with 744... TG came back, I supposed SQ wont take too long to follow..

As EK and QR entered Warsaw, only logical thing imho would be to go there too, being a Star Alliance LO's hub.....

Rgds



Got both LO 788 frames already, next LO E95 and 734 BRU-WAW-BRU
User currently offlineQFVHOQA From Australia, joined Mar 2012, 491 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 7705 times:

Quoting 9MMPD (Thread starter):
London, Manchester, Paris, Barcelona, Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Frankfurt, Munich, Zurich, Milan, Rome, Istanbul, Moscow and soon Athens again. Could we see them in BRU, ARN, GVA, MAD, VIE in the near future or maybe even somewhere in Eastern Europe like PRG?

SQ has really seen EK cut its lunch on many AU-EU routes, QR & EY also to a lesser extent. New routes would be a tough proposition given this competition combined with the state of the EU economy.

Given that many of SQ's European flights are less than daily, maybe they should focus on the routes they already have instead of new routes? If SQ want to attract higher yielding business pax then 2x or 3x weekly can't compete with EK's frequencies. But if SQ were to expand, I think VIE has potential with connections on OS to many Eastern European destinations. Or perhaps once BER finally opens then SQ can fly there, given EK can't serve TXL/SXF/BER at the moment.


User currently onlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19246 posts, RR: 52
Reply 6, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7619 times:

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 1):
Mortyman From Norway:

OSL might also be a possibility
Quoting LPA" class="quote" target="_blank">LOT767SP-LPA (Reply 2):
LOT767SP-LPA From Poland

I have heard that SQ looking to open WAW
Quoting LO231 (Reply 4):
LO231 From Belgium

SQ... BRU

Nothing like self-interest.  

[Edited 2013-10-02 02:05:09]


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineRGFC From Italy, joined Jul 2013, 55 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7614 times:

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 5):
Given that many of SQ's European flights are less than daily, maybe they should focus on the routes they already have instead of new routes? If SQ want to attract higher yielding business pax then 2x or 3x weekly can't compete with EK's frequencies

I perfectly agree and can cite the example of MXP. SQ used to fly daily to MXP and EK twice per day. Now we are at only 5 per week by SQ and thrice daily (to DXB) by EK (plus once daily to JFK). EK's business class on 777s is horrible (2-3-2) whilst SQ's is superb on the 77W that flies to MXP (IMO even better than EK's first class on 777s): but of course SQ has lost quite a lot of business traffic to EK at MXP. Also in coach, EK offers a really cramped 3-4-3 on 777s vs a 'normal' 3-3-3 by SQ (and SQ's service is superior to EK's, and SIN is a better airport than DXB). But of course nowadays MXP is a focus airport for EK and a minor airport for SQ. (And then you have to add competition by EY and QR ...)


User currently onlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19246 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7603 times:

Quoting RGFC (Reply 7):
Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 5):
Given that many of SQ's European flights are less than daily, maybe they should focus on the routes they already have instead of new routes? If SQ want to attract higher yielding business pax then 2x or 3x weekly can't compete with EK's frequencies

I perfectly agree and can cite the example of MXP. SQ used to fly daily to MXP and EK twice per day. Now we are at only 5 per week by SQ and thrice daily (to DXB) by EK

And if you include the two remaining airlines from the MEB3 - EY and QR - there are six daily flights between MXP and DXB/AUH/DOH and, by extention, a huge amount of the rest of the world. This isn't going to diminish, so increasing the difficulty Southeast Asian airlines will have.



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently onlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 3028 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7489 times:
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IMO

The next significant changes that are likely within the Singapore European operations are:

Decoupling of the Manchester/Munich operation - Timeframe winter 2014.
Manchester returning to 5/6 weekly none stop and operated by A359
Munich having dedicated service continuing of 77W

Upgrade to all 388 in summer 2014 on LHR

Perhaps third Frankfurt daily on 77W.

Really just tinkering before 2015 and beyond.

Any significant growth can be expected into Africa imo.

I envision Addis/Lagos and NBO being targets with freight being a driver through to/from China


User currently offlineA330NZ From New Zealand, joined Dec 2010, 220 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7461 times:

I'm thinking ARN. In January last year, SQ announced an expanded partnership with SK, and hinted at a possible SIN-ARN flight. Also, the SIN-CPH flight has since increased from 3x weekly to 5x weekly, showing an increase in traffic to the Scandinavian peninsula

Here's the press release for the expanded partnership and hint at an ARN flight in the future

http://www.singaporeair.com/jsp/cms/...UK/press_release_news/ne120112.jsp


User currently offlineSR4ever From Luxembourg, joined Mar 2010, 800 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 6913 times:

GVA could nicely fit in SQ high-yield network

ARN and OSL, too, in view of their Star Alliance bubs/focus cities, and of Scandinavian economics.

VIE would be great, too, with good OS connections in Central Europe.

BRU could be a nice addition, as a Star hub with good European and African connections.

BER might be worth it within 5-10 years'time.

LYS/NCE, I d love to see them on an SQ route map, but won't probably happen in this decade.

Perhaps LCY, with some 318LR, and a refuelling stop in BER or WAW.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25871 posts, RR: 22
Reply 12, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 6896 times:

Quoting SR4ever (Reply 11):
GVA could nicely fit in SQ high-yield network

Much too small a market for GVA-SIN nonstop service in my opinion. That's why GVA has no longhaul direct service to Asia (beyond the Middle East) except Air China's 4 x week A332 service GVA-PEK that started a few months ago.

Daily nonstops from GVA by the 3 big Gulf carriers (EK/EY/QR) to their hubs make it difficult for other Asian carriers to compete with nonstop flights.

TG tried one-stop service GVA-BKK about 10 years ago, first using the 777-300 (non-ER) via ATH, then 744 service as a tag-on to ZRH. Both were unprofitable and didn't last long.

[Edited 2013-10-02 17:42:35]

User currently offlinewroord From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 965 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 6816 times:

Quoting SR4ever (Reply 11):
GVA could nicely fit in SQ high-yield network

ARN and OSL, too, in view of their Star Alliance bubs/focus cities, and of Scandinavian economics.

VIE would be great, too, with good OS connections in Central Europe.

BRU could be a nice addition, as a Star hub with good European and African connections.

BER might be worth it within 5-10 years'time.

LYS/NCE, I d love to see them on an SQ route map, but won't probably happen in this decade.

Perhaps LCY, with some 318LR, and a refuelling stop in BER or WAW.

I do not think any of those have a chance of happening, unless SQ can do a combination of the sort they do to IAH via DME or GRU via BCN, so maybe ORD via BRU/BER or WAW?


User currently offlineLO231 From Belgium, joined Sep 2004, 2392 posts, RR: 22
Reply 14, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6705 times:

James, I really think they could do well in BRU and WAW, both being Star Alliance hubs.... BRU got EY, WAW got EK..... How many Belgians or Poles fly to the Emirates? Its way beyond! Asia and Australia are big Markets, especially since Vietnamese invading Poland like they do.... Every corner in Warsaw has a Vietnamese, cheap, edible, nice food!


Got both LO 788 frames already, next LO E95 and 734 BRU-WAW-BRU
User currently offlineSR4ever From Luxembourg, joined Mar 2010, 800 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 6169 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 12):
Much too small a market for GVA-SIN nonstop service in my opinion. That's why GVA has no longhaul direct service to Asia (beyond the Middle East) except Air China's 4 x week A332 service GVA-PEK that started a few months ago

Never say never. There might be a good niche for SQ, but perhaps they should use smaller frames than 359/789 (like 332/788).

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 12):
Daily nonstops from GVA by the 3 big Gulf carriers (EK/EY/QR) to their hubs make it difficult for other Asian carriers to compete with nonstop flights.

Agreed, but SQ has a high-flying product, while flying undisturbed for 12hrs on a night flight is also an advantage in premium cabins.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 12):
TG tried one-stop service GVA-BKK about 10 years ago, first using the 777-300 (non-ER) via ATH, then 744 service as a tag-on to ZRH. Both were unprofitable and didn't last long.

These frames were too big, and BKK cannot compare with SIN in terms of yields...

Quoting wroord (Reply 13):
I do not think any of those have a chance of happening, unless SQ can do a combination of the sort they do to IAH via DME or GRU via BCN, so maybe ORD via BRU/BER or WAW?

That could be an idea indeed, with LX/SQ code-sharing.

Quoting LO231 (Reply 14):
specially since Vietnamese invading Poland like they do.... Every corner in Warsaw has a Vietnamese, cheap, edible, nice food!

Fair enough, but LO unfortunately had to scrap very quickly its short-lived WAW-HAN flight: the loads were too low. Pity as the 788, if delivered on time, mya have saved this route.


User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 326 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 6161 times:

To be honest, especially with SQ not having done that well in the past year or so, I don't see them doing much beyond LHR-SIN. With the ME3 stealing lots of business from SQ and Singapore slated to be the world's richest country per capita soon, maybe SQ will focus more on SIN O&D in the years and decades to come.

User currently offlineLO231 From Belgium, joined Sep 2004, 2392 posts, RR: 22
Reply 17, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5698 times:

Quoting SR4ever (Reply 15):

I agree about WAW-HAN as a non-stop but SQ via SIN to HAN onwards would make sence imho as SIN is. Great transfer place to Asia and Australia



Got both LO 788 frames already, next LO E95 and 734 BRU-WAW-BRU
User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8577 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5522 times:

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 5):
SQ has really seen EK cut its lunch on many AU-EU routes,

I don't believe the AU-EU market is that significant outside of the UK to be relevant here.
SQ has had to pull out of many EU cities because the 772ER simply became too expensive to operate and the 77W is too big. I expect them to return to some of these cities when they start receiving the A350, or perhaps with the 787.


User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 326 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5295 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 18):
I don't believe the AU-EU market is that significant outside of the UK to be relevant here.
SQ has had to pull out of many EU cities because the 772ER simply became too expensive to operate and the 77W is too big. I expect them to return to some of these cities when they start receiving the A350, or perhaps with the 787.

I would assume that SIN-ATH relies largely on SYD and MEL connections.


User currently offlineLO231 From Belgium, joined Sep 2004, 2392 posts, RR: 22
Reply 20, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5241 times:

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 19):

Pull out? I heard EK are going back to 772 in WAW with the longer runway repared. Now it is 332 rotation.. Also QR saw potential there albeit it with 320... Why not SQ as a Star? I guess they're in need of a smaller longhaul, but 330 would work, wouldn't it? Just wondering...

[Edited 2013-10-15 15:21:45]


Got both LO 788 frames already, next LO E95 and 734 BRU-WAW-BRU
User currently offlineAkiestar From Philippines, joined May 2009, 786 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5167 times:

Quoting SR4ever (Reply 15):
Fair enough, but LO unfortunately had to scrap very quickly its short-lived WAW-HAN flight: the loads were too low. Pity as the 788, if delivered on time, mya have saved this route.

Actually, WAW-HAN loads were high, but yields were low.


User currently offlineQFVHOQA From Australia, joined Mar 2012, 491 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5161 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 18):
I don't believe the AU-EU market is that significant outside of the UK to be relevant here.
SQ has had to pull out of many EU cities because the 772ER simply became too expensive to operate and the 77W is too big.

Perhaps we need to think about why SQ finds the 77E too expensive to operate. EK/EY/QR/TK came in offering lower fares to the markets that SQ relied on. SQ must have then found they could no longer charge enough of a premium for their service, and as fares fell, the 77E became too expensive.
Agreed that not all of SQ's EU desitnations would have strong traffic from AU (DME for one). But as evidenced why EK is so popular ex-AU is that Australians now like to visit many European cities, rather than years past where the focus was the UK. In my time in Europe both last year and this year, the number of Australians encountered rivals the Americans in many places, especially in BCN.


User currently offlineLO231 From Belgium, joined Sep 2004, 2392 posts, RR: 22
Reply 23, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5143 times:

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 22):

Now that you mention it, I was in Venice last June and I think I've heard more Australians, both in the city and the bungalow camping, than I did British...



Got both LO 788 frames already, next LO E95 and 734 BRU-WAW-BRU
User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8577 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4853 times:

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 22):
Perhaps we need to think about why SQ finds the 77E too expensive to operate. EK/EY/QR/TK came in offering lower fares to the markets that SQ relied on. SQ must have then found they could no longer charge enough of a premium for their service, and as fares fell, the 77E became too expensive.

Right but also lets not forget the 12-13 hour block time for a typical SIN-EU route. The A359/B789 should bring the operating costs closer to those of the ME carriers, especially to places like VIE, OSL, BRU where the majority of traffic is low yield.


25 Coal : Why fly 12+ hours northwest to BRU and then south to Africa when you could fly via DXB or DOH today? If anything, this would strengthen the case for
26 ManekS : Funny you mention that. ET, in co-operation with SQ, will be starting flights to SIN in December. They will initially fly ADD to SIN via BKK, and lat
27 QFVHOQA : Last I read, SQ is sending the 789 order to TZ, but they will still have the A359. But then so will the ME carriers, so it puts SQ back into the same
28 sankaps : But nothing is stopping the ME3 from maintaining their cost advantage by getting these aircraft too, correct?
29 Post contains images airbazar : A lot can change between now and the time the planes start arriving, just like QF had different intentions for their 787's when they ordered them. So
30 QFVHOQA : I really doubt this is the case. These days price is the overwhelming deciding factor. For premium pax then a non-stop is more desirable, but for the
31 Coal : Yeah I had heard about this. SQ probably figures it is too risky to start this route on their own. Besides, which a/c would they do it with? I don't
32 infinit : Is there a market for FCO to go daily? It's only 3x a week now Or reckon there is any chance they could be given 5th freedom rights to fly from Moscow
33 OzGlobal : Let's check the O&D figures, but you should not underestimate not only the AU - UK market, but Italy, Greece, Balkans, and now with youth working
34 ManekS : Yes, I believe ADD is well within range of the A333, which would probably be the most suitable aircraft, capacity wise. I have noticed SIA warming up
35 airbazar : Maybe I didn't word it right. When I said "anyone who can" I was refering to people for whom price is not the main factor. I don't think SQ is in the
36 QFVHOQA : For pax whom price is not the main factor, then I would think that schedule is - if they want the convenience of a non-stop flight ex-SIN then they w
37 Post contains images airbazar : But how much frequency do you need on a 12 hour flight? The ME carriers have the frequencies because they have the market to fill all of those seats.
38 angmoh : SQ was the first airline to sign up for the XWB and place a firm order. Their order was announced together with the Airbus announcement that the A350
39 blueflyer : And that's the nail in the coffin of the hopes of seeing Singapore back in BRU anytime soon. They can't even use cargo to "help" the passenger yields
40 QFVHOQA : At least a daily frequency would be a good start. Obviously it doesn't need to be at the level of LHR-JFK frequency, but to not be able to fly on the
41 RyanairGuru : That was partly self-perpetuating. Traffic dropped so they went back to one-stop, so traffic dropped because it was no long non-stop. That said, SQ's
42 Coal : That's true. I just realized SQ is flying A333s to CAI, so would make sense it can also make it to ADD. Funny 'cause I thought CAI was 77E. Shame. Wo
43 airbazar : Fair enough. However I was refering to the entire A350 program. I didn't realize that SQ were that far up on the list. I figured that all the airline
44 klinit : I wouldn't be so sure. Admittedly I only have anecdotes predominantly based on the back of the aircraft - but on flights to/from FRA and CPH there we
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