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Where Next In Europe For SQ?  
User currently offline9MMPD From Australia, joined Oct 2005, 280 posts, RR: 1
Posted (6 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 8721 times:

With SQ announcing that they will return to ATH during the peak Northern Summer Season (see link for details), it got me thinking where next in Europe SQ might fly to.
http://www.singaporeair.com/jsp/cms/...UK/press_release_news/ne130930.jsp

They currently fly to

London, Manchester, Paris, Barcelona, Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Frankfurt, Munich, Zurich, Milan, Rome, Istanbul, Moscow and soon Athens again. Could we see them in BRU, ARN, GVA, MAD, VIE in the near future or maybe even somewhere in Eastern Europe like PRG?

44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMortyman From Norway, joined Aug 2006, 3701 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (6 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 8251 times:

OSL might also be a possibility

User currently offlineLOT767SP-LPA From Poland, joined May 2002, 156 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (6 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 8205 times:

I have heard that SQ looking to open WAW from summer 2015 but it is just the rumors I think.

User currently offlineLondonCity From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 1448 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 8171 times:

SQ used to serve BRU in the past. Didn't SQ also serve VIE until recently ?

The point is that SQ originally expended rapidly in Europe in the 70s and 80s but a large chunk of its market (to SE Asia and Australasia) has been captured by the Gulf airlines.

Traffic out of MAN, for example, dipped so that SQ no longer flies MAN-SIN non-stop.


User currently offlineLO231 From Belgium, joined Sep 2004, 2392 posts, RR: 23
Reply 4, posted (6 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 7509 times:

SQ was very present in BRU before, extended to MAN with 744... TG came back, I supposed SQ wont take too long to follow..

As EK and QR entered Warsaw, only logical thing imho would be to go there too, being a Star Alliance LO's hub.....

Rgds



Got both LO 788 frames already, next LO E95 and 734 BRU-WAW-BRU
User currently offlineQFVHOQA From Australia, joined Mar 2012, 374 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 7351 times:

Quoting 9MMPD (Thread starter):
London, Manchester, Paris, Barcelona, Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Frankfurt, Munich, Zurich, Milan, Rome, Istanbul, Moscow and soon Athens again. Could we see them in BRU, ARN, GVA, MAD, VIE in the near future or maybe even somewhere in Eastern Europe like PRG?

SQ has really seen EK cut its lunch on many AU-EU routes, QR & EY also to a lesser extent. New routes would be a tough proposition given this competition combined with the state of the EU economy.

Given that many of SQ's European flights are less than daily, maybe they should focus on the routes they already have instead of new routes? If SQ want to attract higher yielding business pax then 2x or 3x weekly can't compete with EK's frequencies. But if SQ were to expand, I think VIE has potential with connections on OS to many Eastern European destinations. Or perhaps once BER finally opens then SQ can fly there, given EK can't serve TXL/SXF/BER at the moment.


User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19097 posts, RR: 53
Reply 6, posted (6 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 7265 times:

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 1):
Mortyman From Norway:

OSL might also be a possibility
Quoting LPA" class="quote" target="_blank">LOT767SP-LPA (Reply 2):
LOT767SP-LPA From Poland

I have heard that SQ looking to open WAW
Quoting LO231 (Reply 4):
LO231 From Belgium

SQ... BRU

Nothing like self-interest.  

[Edited 2013-10-02 02:05:09]


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineRGFC From Italy, joined Jul 2013, 55 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 7260 times:

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 5):
Given that many of SQ's European flights are less than daily, maybe they should focus on the routes they already have instead of new routes? If SQ want to attract higher yielding business pax then 2x or 3x weekly can't compete with EK's frequencies

I perfectly agree and can cite the example of MXP. SQ used to fly daily to MXP and EK twice per day. Now we are at only 5 per week by SQ and thrice daily (to DXB) by EK (plus once daily to JFK). EK's business class on 777s is horrible (2-3-2) whilst SQ's is superb on the 77W that flies to MXP (IMO even better than EK's first class on 777s): but of course SQ has lost quite a lot of business traffic to EK at MXP. Also in coach, EK offers a really cramped 3-4-3 on 777s vs a 'normal' 3-3-3 by SQ (and SQ's service is superior to EK's, and SIN is a better airport than DXB). But of course nowadays MXP is a focus airport for EK and a minor airport for SQ. (And then you have to add competition by EY and QR ...)


User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19097 posts, RR: 53
Reply 8, posted (6 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 7249 times:

Quoting RGFC (Reply 7):
Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 5):
Given that many of SQ's European flights are less than daily, maybe they should focus on the routes they already have instead of new routes? If SQ want to attract higher yielding business pax then 2x or 3x weekly can't compete with EK's frequencies

I perfectly agree and can cite the example of MXP. SQ used to fly daily to MXP and EK twice per day. Now we are at only 5 per week by SQ and thrice daily (to DXB) by EK

And if you include the two remaining airlines from the MEB3 - EY and QR - there are six daily flights between MXP and DXB/AUH/DOH and, by extention, a huge amount of the rest of the world. This isn't going to diminish, so increasing the difficulty Southeast Asian airlines will have.



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently onlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 2801 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (6 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 7135 times:
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IMO

The next significant changes that are likely within the Singapore European operations are:

Decoupling of the Manchester/Munich operation - Timeframe winter 2014.
Manchester returning to 5/6 weekly none stop and operated by A359
Munich having dedicated service continuing of 77W

Upgrade to all 388 in summer 2014 on LHR

Perhaps third Frankfurt daily on 77W.

Really just tinkering before 2015 and beyond.

Any significant growth can be expected into Africa imo.

I envision Addis/Lagos and NBO being targets with freight being a driver through to/from China


User currently offlineA330NZ From New Zealand, joined Dec 2010, 183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 7107 times:

I'm thinking ARN. In January last year, SQ announced an expanded partnership with SK, and hinted at a possible SIN-ARN flight. Also, the SIN-CPH flight has since increased from 3x weekly to 5x weekly, showing an increase in traffic to the Scandinavian peninsula

Here's the press release for the expanded partnership and hint at an ARN flight in the future

http://www.singaporeair.com/jsp/cms/...UK/press_release_news/ne120112.jsp


User currently offlineSR4ever From Luxembourg, joined Mar 2010, 799 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (6 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6559 times:

GVA could nicely fit in SQ high-yield network

ARN and OSL, too, in view of their Star Alliance bubs/focus cities, and of Scandinavian economics.

VIE would be great, too, with good OS connections in Central Europe.

BRU could be a nice addition, as a Star hub with good European and African connections.

BER might be worth it within 5-10 years'time.

LYS/NCE, I d love to see them on an SQ route map, but won't probably happen in this decade.

Perhaps LCY, with some 318LR, and a refuelling stop in BER or WAW.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24061 posts, RR: 23
Reply 12, posted (6 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6542 times:

Quoting SR4ever (Reply 11):
GVA could nicely fit in SQ high-yield network

Much too small a market for GVA-SIN nonstop service in my opinion. That's why GVA has no longhaul direct service to Asia (beyond the Middle East) except Air China's 4 x week A332 service GVA-PEK that started a few months ago.

Daily nonstops from GVA by the 3 big Gulf carriers (EK/EY/QR) to their hubs make it difficult for other Asian carriers to compete with nonstop flights.

TG tried one-stop service GVA-BKK about 10 years ago, first using the 777-300 (non-ER) via ATH, then 744 service as a tag-on to ZRH. Both were unprofitable and didn't last long.

[Edited 2013-10-02 17:42:35]

User currently offlinewroord From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 915 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6462 times:

Quoting SR4ever (Reply 11):
GVA could nicely fit in SQ high-yield network

ARN and OSL, too, in view of their Star Alliance bubs/focus cities, and of Scandinavian economics.

VIE would be great, too, with good OS connections in Central Europe.

BRU could be a nice addition, as a Star hub with good European and African connections.

BER might be worth it within 5-10 years'time.

LYS/NCE, I d love to see them on an SQ route map, but won't probably happen in this decade.

Perhaps LCY, with some 318LR, and a refuelling stop in BER or WAW.

I do not think any of those have a chance of happening, unless SQ can do a combination of the sort they do to IAH via DME or GRU via BCN, so maybe ORD via BRU/BER or WAW?


User currently offlineLO231 From Belgium, joined Sep 2004, 2392 posts, RR: 23
Reply 14, posted (6 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6351 times:

James, I really think they could do well in BRU and WAW, both being Star Alliance hubs.... BRU got EY, WAW got EK..... How many Belgians or Poles fly to the Emirates? Its way beyond! Asia and Australia are big Markets, especially since Vietnamese invading Poland like they do.... Every corner in Warsaw has a Vietnamese, cheap, edible, nice food!


Got both LO 788 frames already, next LO E95 and 734 BRU-WAW-BRU
User currently offlineSR4ever From Luxembourg, joined Mar 2010, 799 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (6 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 5815 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 12):
Much too small a market for GVA-SIN nonstop service in my opinion. That's why GVA has no longhaul direct service to Asia (beyond the Middle East) except Air China's 4 x week A332 service GVA-PEK that started a few months ago

Never say never. There might be a good niche for SQ, but perhaps they should use smaller frames than 359/789 (like 332/788).

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 12):
Daily nonstops from GVA by the 3 big Gulf carriers (EK/EY/QR) to their hubs make it difficult for other Asian carriers to compete with nonstop flights.

Agreed, but SQ has a high-flying product, while flying undisturbed for 12hrs on a night flight is also an advantage in premium cabins.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 12):
TG tried one-stop service GVA-BKK about 10 years ago, first using the 777-300 (non-ER) via ATH, then 744 service as a tag-on to ZRH. Both were unprofitable and didn't last long.

These frames were too big, and BKK cannot compare with SIN in terms of yields...

Quoting wroord (Reply 13):
I do not think any of those have a chance of happening, unless SQ can do a combination of the sort they do to IAH via DME or GRU via BCN, so maybe ORD via BRU/BER or WAW?

That could be an idea indeed, with LX/SQ code-sharing.

Quoting LO231 (Reply 14):
specially since Vietnamese invading Poland like they do.... Every corner in Warsaw has a Vietnamese, cheap, edible, nice food!

Fair enough, but LO unfortunately had to scrap very quickly its short-lived WAW-HAN flight: the loads were too low. Pity as the 788, if delivered on time, mya have saved this route.


User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 5807 times:

To be honest, especially with SQ not having done that well in the past year or so, I don't see them doing much beyond LHR-SIN. With the ME3 stealing lots of business from SQ and Singapore slated to be the world's richest country per capita soon, maybe SQ will focus more on SIN O&D in the years and decades to come.

User currently offlineLO231 From Belgium, joined Sep 2004, 2392 posts, RR: 23
Reply 17, posted (6 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5344 times:

Quoting SR4ever (Reply 15):

I agree about WAW-HAN as a non-stop but SQ via SIN to HAN onwards would make sence imho as SIN is. Great transfer place to Asia and Australia



Got both LO 788 frames already, next LO E95 and 734 BRU-WAW-BRU
User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 7869 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (6 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5168 times:

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 5):
SQ has really seen EK cut its lunch on many AU-EU routes,

I don't believe the AU-EU market is that significant outside of the UK to be relevant here.
SQ has had to pull out of many EU cities because the 772ER simply became too expensive to operate and the 77W is too big. I expect them to return to some of these cities when they start receiving the A350, or perhaps with the 787.


User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4941 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 18):
I don't believe the AU-EU market is that significant outside of the UK to be relevant here.
SQ has had to pull out of many EU cities because the 772ER simply became too expensive to operate and the 77W is too big. I expect them to return to some of these cities when they start receiving the A350, or perhaps with the 787.

I would assume that SIN-ATH relies largely on SYD and MEL connections.


User currently offlineLO231 From Belgium, joined Sep 2004, 2392 posts, RR: 23
Reply 20, posted (6 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4887 times:

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 19):

Pull out? I heard EK are going back to 772 in WAW with the longer runway repared. Now it is 332 rotation.. Also QR saw potential there albeit it with 320... Why not SQ as a Star? I guess they're in need of a smaller longhaul, but 330 would work, wouldn't it? Just wondering...

[Edited 2013-10-15 15:21:45]


Got both LO 788 frames already, next LO E95 and 734 BRU-WAW-BRU
User currently offlineAkiestar From Philippines, joined May 2009, 768 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4813 times:

Quoting SR4ever (Reply 15):
Fair enough, but LO unfortunately had to scrap very quickly its short-lived WAW-HAN flight: the loads were too low. Pity as the 788, if delivered on time, mya have saved this route.

Actually, WAW-HAN loads were high, but yields were low.


User currently offlineQFVHOQA From Australia, joined Mar 2012, 374 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4807 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 18):
I don't believe the AU-EU market is that significant outside of the UK to be relevant here.
SQ has had to pull out of many EU cities because the 772ER simply became too expensive to operate and the 77W is too big.

Perhaps we need to think about why SQ finds the 77E too expensive to operate. EK/EY/QR/TK came in offering lower fares to the markets that SQ relied on. SQ must have then found they could no longer charge enough of a premium for their service, and as fares fell, the 77E became too expensive.
Agreed that not all of SQ's EU desitnations would have strong traffic from AU (DME for one). But as evidenced why EK is so popular ex-AU is that Australians now like to visit many European cities, rather than years past where the focus was the UK. In my time in Europe both last year and this year, the number of Australians encountered rivals the Americans in many places, especially in BCN.


User currently offlineLO231 From Belgium, joined Sep 2004, 2392 posts, RR: 23
Reply 23, posted (6 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4789 times:

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 22):

Now that you mention it, I was in Venice last June and I think I've heard more Australians, both in the city and the bungalow camping, than I did British...



Got both LO 788 frames already, next LO E95 and 734 BRU-WAW-BRU
User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 7869 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (6 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4499 times:

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 22):
Perhaps we need to think about why SQ finds the 77E too expensive to operate. EK/EY/QR/TK came in offering lower fares to the markets that SQ relied on. SQ must have then found they could no longer charge enough of a premium for their service, and as fares fell, the 77E became too expensive.

Right but also lets not forget the 12-13 hour block time for a typical SIN-EU route. The A359/B789 should bring the operating costs closer to those of the ME carriers, especially to places like VIE, OSL, BRU where the majority of traffic is low yield.


User currently offlineCoal From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1943 posts, RR: 9
Reply 25, posted (6 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4331 times:

Quoting SR4ever (Reply 11):
BRU could be a nice addition, as a Star hub with good European and African connections.

Why fly 12+ hours northwest to BRU and then south to Africa when you could fly via DXB or DOH today? If anything, this would strengthen the case for them to fly to ADD and use ET to connect to the rest of the continent. I'm surprised this hasn't happened yet. I think SQ could capture a ton of East Asia - Africa traffic via SIN and ADD. I suppose the only issue here is why go 2-stop when you could go 1-stop via DXB/DOH?

Cheers
Coal



Nxt Flts: SQ HKG-SIN | VF SIN-DPS | SQ DPS-SIN-SYD
User currently offlineManekS From Singapore, joined Oct 2008, 240 posts, RR: 0
Reply 26, posted (6 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4315 times:

Quoting Coal (Reply 25):
If anything, this would strengthen the case for them to fly to ADD and use ET to connect to the rest of the continent. I'm surprised this hasn't happened yet. I think SQ could capture a ton of East Asia - Africa traffic via SIN and ADD.


Funny you mention that. ET, in co-operation with SQ, will be starting flights to SIN in December. They will initially fly ADD to SIN via BKK, and later switch to a nonstop service once the market proves itself. This must be one of the very few instances in which a partner has received SQ's full support in operating their own metal to SIN.


User currently offlineQFVHOQA From Australia, joined Mar 2012, 374 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (6 months 1 day ago) and read 4402 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 24):
Right but also lets not forget the 12-13 hour block time for a typical SIN-EU route. The A359/B789 should bring the operating costs closer to those of the ME carriers, especially to places like VIE, OSL, BRU where the majority of traffic is low yield.

Last I read, SQ is sending the 789 order to TZ, but they will still have the A359. But then so will the ME carriers, so it puts SQ back into the same cost position.

Quoting Coal (Reply 25):
If anything, this would strengthen the case for them to fly to ADD and use ET to connect to the rest of the continent. I'm surprised this hasn't happened yet. I think SQ could capture a ton of East Asia - Africa traffic via SIN and ADD. I suppose the only issue here is why go 2-stop when you could go 1-stop via DXB/DOH?

EK only serves 3 cities in China, QR only 5, whereas SQ/MI offers 10 destinations. However ET already offers CAN & PEK so might not need SQ to access China. And once KQ serves CAN the connections from there on CZ would be strong in this market.


User currently offlinesankaps From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2252 posts, RR: 2
Reply 28, posted (6 months 22 hours ago) and read 4158 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 24):
The A359/B789 should bring the operating costs closer to those of the ME carriers

But nothing is stopping the ME3 from maintaining their cost advantage by getting these aircraft too, correct?


User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 7869 posts, RR: 10
Reply 29, posted (6 months 21 hours ago) and read 4023 times:

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 27):
Last I read, SQ is sending the 789 order to TZ, but they will still have the A359. But then so will the ME carriers, so it puts SQ back into the same cost position.

A lot can change between now and the time the planes start arriving, just like QF had different intentions for their 787's when they ordered them.

Quoting sankaps (Reply 28):
But nothing is stopping the ME3 from maintaining their cost advantage by getting these aircraft too, correct?

Somehow I don't think EK will be down gauging all their 77W and A380 flights to A359's   But yes, they will still have a cost advantage (the distance alone is a cost advantage), but the difference will be less because an airplane like the A359 is optimized for a longer stage length. But cost advantage is not all there is to it. Plane size is also relevant because of the higher fragmentation of the market due to increased number of players. Anyone who can fly non-stop between the EU and SIN is not going to take a conection in the ME. So there are passengers still, only in smaller numbers.


User currently offlineQFVHOQA From Australia, joined Mar 2012, 374 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (6 months 11 hours ago) and read 3664 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 29):
Anyone who can fly non-stop between the EU and SIN is not going to take a conection in the ME.

I really doubt this is the case. These days price is the overwhelming deciding factor. For premium pax then a non-stop is more desirable, but for the masses in Y the lowest price usually wins. The ME carriers can use their cost advantage over SQ (and BA/LH/AF et al) to offer lower fares via their hubs.
So the premium cabin O&D market for SIN wouldn't support many destinations on its own, certainly no more than SQ currently offers.


User currently offlineCoal From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1943 posts, RR: 9
Reply 31, posted (6 months 4 hours ago) and read 3458 times:

Quoting ManekS (Reply 26):
Funny you mention that. ET, in co-operation with SQ, will be starting flights to SIN in December. They will initially fly ADD to SIN via BKK, and later switch to a nonstop service once the market proves itself. This must be one of the very few instances in which a partner has received SQ's full support in operating their own metal to SIN.

Yeah I had heard about this. SQ probably figures it is too risky to start this route on their own. Besides, which a/c would they do it with? I don't think they have any spare 772ERs and not sure the A333 can make it, can it?

Do you know if ET will have 5th freedom on BKK-SIN? And which plane will they fly? 763?

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 27):
K only serves 3 cities in China, QR only 5, whereas SQ/MI offers 10 destinations. However ET already offers CAN & PEK so might not need SQ to access China. And once KQ serves CAN the connections from there on CZ would be strong in this market.

I was originally going to mention SQ's extensive network in China, but the concentration of Africans in China is in Guangzhou and south of Shanghai (Yiwu, specifically).

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 30):
I really doubt this is the case. These days price is the overwhelming deciding factor.

That's so true. I've done it once. As much as I love SQ, I flew SIN-DOH-MXP because the fare was about 30-40% lower on QR. Having said that, I have only found QR to be cheaper than SQ. I usually find EK and EY around the same price for Y.

Cheers
Coal



Nxt Flts: SQ HKG-SIN | VF SIN-DPS | SQ DPS-SIN-SYD
User currently offlineinfinit From Singapore, joined Jul 2008, 499 posts, RR: 1
Reply 32, posted (6 months 3 hours ago) and read 3389 times:

Is there a market for FCO to go daily? It's only 3x a week now

Or reckon there is any chance they could be given 5th freedom rights to fly from Moscow to a European destination?


User currently offlineOzGlobal From France, joined Nov 2004, 2701 posts, RR: 4
Reply 33, posted (6 months 1 hour ago) and read 3236 times:

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 19):
Quoting airbazar (Reply 18):
I don't believe the AU-EU market is that significant outside of the UK to be relevant here.
SQ has had to pull out of many EU cities because the 772ER simply became too expensive to operate and the 77W is too big. I expect them to return to some of these cities when they start receiving the A350, or perhaps with the 787.

I would assume that SIN-ATH relies largely on SYD and MEL connections.

Let's check the O&D figures, but you should not underestimate not only the AU - UK market, but Italy, Greece, Balkans, and now with youth working visa programs: Spain and France.



When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
User currently offlineManekS From Singapore, joined Oct 2008, 240 posts, RR: 0
Reply 34, posted (5 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3099 times:

Quoting Coal (Reply 31):
Yeah I had heard about this. SQ probably figures it is too risky to start this route on their own. Besides, which a/c would they do it with? I don't think they have any spare 772ERs and not sure the A333 can make it, can it?

Do you know if ET will have 5th freedom on BKK-SIN? And which plane will they fly? 763?


Yes, I believe ADD is well within range of the A333, which would probably be the most suitable aircraft, capacity wise. I have noticed SIA warming up to partners under the helm of the new Chief Executive. This new ET service may be a sign of things to come.

From what I understand, Ethiopian will not have rights on the intra-Asia legs. It'll be operated with the 763, though the nonstop is said to be on the 787.


User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 7869 posts, RR: 10
Reply 35, posted (5 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2895 times:

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 30):
I really doubt this is the case. These days price is the overwhelming deciding factor.

Maybe I didn't word it right. When I said "anyone who can" I was refering to people for whom price is not the main factor. I don't think SQ is in the business of transporting passengers for whom in price is everything. For that, they are developing Scoot.


User currently offlineQFVHOQA From Australia, joined Mar 2012, 374 posts, RR: 0
Reply 36, posted (5 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2568 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 35):
Maybe I didn't word it right. When I said "anyone who can" I was refering to people for whom price is not the main factor. I don't think SQ is in the business of transporting passengers for whom in price is everything. For that, they are developing Scoot.

For pax whom price is not the main factor, then I would think that schedule is - if they want the convenience of a non-stop flight ex-SIN then they would also want to fly on the day of their choosing. SQ cant offer this to several of their EU destinations, like MXP/BCN/CPH att 5x weekly and FCO a measly 3x weekly. The ME carriers trump SQ on frequency

Ordinarily I would agree that SQ doesn't chase the discount Y pax, preferring to charge a premium for their superior service. However just recently they have released "Earlybird" fares for AU-EU pax which are below those of EK/QF/CX/MH and on par with EY. Considering they have never offered fares at that low level before, there is either a change in strategy, or SQ is hurting and can't afford to charge a premium in Y any longer.


User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 7869 posts, RR: 10
Reply 37, posted (5 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2333 times:

But how much frequency do you need on a 12 hour flight? The ME carriers have the frequencies because they have the market to fill all of those seats. SQ has been relegated to almost a niche carrier in Europe. Their market is smaller and getting smaller, but it's not zero. That's what i'm trying to say.

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 36):
Considering they have never offered fares at that low level before, there is either a change in strategy, or SQ is hurting and can't afford to charge a premium in Y any longer.

It's called competition and that is good for consumers   I bet they're kicking themselves for not ordering those A359's much earlier.


User currently offlineangmoh From Singapore, joined Nov 2011, 448 posts, RR: 0
Reply 38, posted (5 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2300 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 37):
I bet they're kicking themselves for not ordering those A359's much earlier.

SQ was the first airline to sign up for the XWB and place a firm order. Their order was announced together with the Airbus announcement that the A350 mk1/2/whatever would be replaced with the A350 XWB and it seemed to be that SQ drove the definition of the new fuselage diameter. The next order for the XWB was more than a year later. They will be the second airline to receive the A359 and the only other than Qatar to receive any A359 before 2016. So how much earlier should they have ordered the A359?

And maybe SQ is a niche in Europe, but the average load factor is the highest of all SQ regions and I believe the average is over 90% and most flights I am on are packed. And from Singapore, if you want to fly cheap to Europe you don't fly EK but MH or TG. EK and SQ are about the same fare.


User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3696 posts, RR: 2
Reply 39, posted (5 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 1980 times:
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Quoting ManekS (Reply 26):
Funny you mention that. ET, in co-operation with SQ, will be starting flights to SIN in December.

And that's the nail in the coffin of the hopes of seeing Singapore back in BRU anytime soon. They can't even use cargo to "help" the passenger yields because Singapore sends several 744Fs to BRU every week, and they have all the connections they need via FRA, so SIN-BRU would have to survive on O/D alone at the BRU end, not an encouraging prospect.



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineQFVHOQA From Australia, joined Mar 2012, 374 posts, RR: 0
Reply 40, posted (5 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 1841 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 37):
But how much frequency do you need on a 12 hour flight? The ME carriers have the frequencies because they have the market to fill all of those seats. SQ has been relegated to almost a niche carrier in Europe. Their market is smaller and getting smaller, but it's not zero. That's what i'm trying to say.

At least a daily frequency would be a good start. Obviously it doesn't need to be at the level of LHR-JFK frequency, but to not be able to fly on the day you need to is important to premium pax.
I'm not arguing that SQ has no market in Europe, but as the thread was about "Where Next In Europe For SQ?" my response is that SQ should firm up it's current destinations before expanding to new ones.


User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 4681 posts, RR: 4
Reply 41, posted (5 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 1689 times:

Quoting LondonCity (Reply 3):
Traffic out of MAN, for example, dipped so that SQ no longer flies MAN-SIN non-stop

That was partly self-perpetuating. Traffic dropped so they went back to one-stop, so traffic dropped because it was no long non-stop.

That said, SQ's presence in MAN isn't too bad. A decade ago they were flying a daily 744 via ZRH (???) and now its a daily 77W via MUC. Obviously EK, EY and QR have gone gangbusters in the market during that time, but SQ is hanging in there.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 18):
I don't believe the AU-EU market is that significant outside of the UK to be relevant here

If anyone can dig out statements it would be good, but I'm 99% certain that SQ have said that Australia is still their most profitable market. That isn't all going to LHR.

Obviously Australia-Asia is a big component of AUS-SIN traffic, but a lot of other cities play into it, especially around the Mediterranean basin.

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 19):
I would assume that SIN-ATH relies largely on SYD and MEL connections.

Definitely.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 29):
Anyone who can fly non-stop between the EU and SIN is not going to take a conection in the ME

Where the "non-stop" EUR-SIN can struggle is to cities that don't have non-stop flights. Having lived in the North of England I know that there is something of a psychological aversion to LHR, and a lot of people would chose, for example, NCL-DXB-SIN over NCL-LHR-SIN, even if total travel time is longer.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineCoal From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1943 posts, RR: 9
Reply 42, posted (5 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 1614 times:

Quoting ManekS (Reply 34):
Yes, I believe ADD is well within range of the A333, which would probably be the most suitable aircraft, capacity wise. I have noticed SIA warming up to partners under the helm of the new Chief Executive. This new ET service may be a sign of things to come.

That's true. I just realized SQ is flying A333s to CAI, so would make sense it can also make it to ADD. Funny 'cause I thought CAI was 77E.

Quoting ManekS (Reply 34):
From what I understand, Ethiopian will not have rights on the intra-Asia legs. It'll be operated with the 763, though the nonstop is said to be on the 787.

Shame. Would be nice to have yet another carrier on BKK-SIN, though there's so much choice already!

Cheers
Coal



Nxt Flts: SQ HKG-SIN | VF SIN-DPS | SQ DPS-SIN-SYD
User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 7869 posts, RR: 10
Reply 43, posted (5 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1373 times:

Quoting angmoh (Reply 38):
SQ was the first airline to sign up for the XWB and place a firm order. Their order was announced together with the Airbus announcement that the A350 mk1/2/whatever would be replaced with the A350 XWB and it seemed to be that SQ drove the definition of the new fuselage diameter. The next order for the XWB was more than a year later. They will be the second airline to receive the A359 and the only other than Qatar to receive any A359 before 2016. So how much earlier should they have ordered the A359?

Fair enough. However I was refering to the entire A350 program. I didn't realize that SQ were that far up on the list. I figured that all the airlines that ordered the A350 mk1 and decided to stick with the XWB, had earlier delivery slots than SQ. I think they really need those A359's asap, so good move on their part.


User currently offlineklinit From Australia, joined Jan 2013, 39 posts, RR: 0
Reply 44, posted (5 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1036 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 18):
I don't believe the AU-EU market is that significant outside of the UK to be relevant here.

I wouldn't be so sure. Admittedly I only have anecdotes predominantly based on the back of the aircraft - but on flights to/from FRA and CPH there were lots of either Australian accents or Germans and Swedes (yes I heard more Swedish... or Scanian... on this flight than Danish) talking about Australia or coming back with Australian souvenirs. Most of us have family in or family ties to Europe and unlike in North America they often only go back one or two generations. (I'm well aware that VFR traffic isn't going to be driving good yields)

Not suggesting Australian traffic is the only factor, but it is an import factor for SQ European flights and that extends way beyond just LHR.


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