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CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 1)  
User currently offlineiowaman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 67123 times:

Due to length part three was archived and part four started.

Previous thread: Any Cseries Updates? Part 3 (by iowaman Aug 21 2013 in Civil Aviation)

254 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 18290 posts, RR: 50
Reply 1, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 66709 times:

A statement from Bombardier:

FTV1 Reaches New Heights

CSeries FTV1 took to the skies yet again, just two days after its follow-up test flight on Oct. 1. Today’s four-hour flight took FTV1 to new heights as the flight crew expanded the performance envelope to reach an altitude of just over 7,620 metres (25,000 feet), at speeds of Mach 0.60 (740 km/h) near Mirabel, Québec.

“The test flight today was helpful in demonstrating the performance of the aircraft at higher altitudes and going forward, we will be combining our flight tests with activities on the ground as we further validate systems data at our CIASTA (CSeries Integrated Aircraft Systems Test Area) where we expect to compare tests and ready the systems for further in-flight analysis,” said Rob Dewar, Vice President and General Manager, CSeries Program.

Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 8384 posts, RR: 20
Reply 2, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 66649 times:

Quoting kaneporta1 (Reply 1):
Shouldn't we change the title to something along the lines of :"CSeries flight testing and production thread"?

Third in agreement here. Remove the "Any" and the question mark and we have a nice thread series 

Either way: So how many are out of the line? We have FTV1 and 2 out and ready, FTV1 flew, FTV is getting ready, and what about production models?

Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 18290 posts, RR: 50
Reply 3, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 66624 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 4):
So how many are out of the line?

FTV3, 4 and 5 should all roll out this year. Also the first production model is in final assembly.

[Edited 2013-10-04 00:21:09]

Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
User currently offlinekmot From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 66137 times:

Will we see any additional u.s. sales?

[Edited 2013-10-04 07:08:09]

User currently offlinerikkus67 From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 1844 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 64973 times:

Quoting kmot (Reply 4):
Will we see any additional u.s. sales?

Hopefully, as favourable results start being confirmed, more interest in the aircraft is inevitable. To see the sales results the original CRJ-100/200 had is possibly unrealistic. To see a solid and steady increase in sales, I feel, is more realistic.

User currently offlinePaolo92 From Italy, joined Oct 2007, 313 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 63211 times:

Nordic Aviation Capital, a Scandinavian aircraft lessor already Bombardier's customer with the Q-Series and CRJ aircraft, is eyeing a CSeries order, according to Flightglobal.
I remember, but I can't find the article atm, that when NAC ordered 12 CRJ1000 last year (for Garuda), the CEO, interviewed about the CSeries said that he saw it as a matter of when, not if, NAC will order the CSeries (which is what he is saying again today).

Nordic Aviation Capital eyes CSeries

Each evening, stars come out their daylight hiding places... But one of those, will be my wingtip, passing over...
User currently offlineczbbflier From Canada, joined Jul 2006, 1032 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 62554 times:

Just out of curiosity... has there been more than 3 flights?

How impatient am I to say that at the rate they're going, it seems like this project isn't going to see any EIS until about 2073. (But they're going to have several Academy Awards for their videos in the meantime....)

User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 18290 posts, RR: 50
Reply 8, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 62381 times:

Quoting czbbflier (Reply 7):
has there been more than 3 flights?

Not yet. I have no idea why it takes so much time.

Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2809 posts, RR: 60
Reply 9, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 62305 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 8):
I have no idea why it takes so much time.

I think there is a major difference in the flight test equipment set-up and it's capabilities between A, B and BBD. A and B have the capability to test in real time if they are approaching flutter boundaries, a very very dangerous condition that can set on very sudden if you've got something wrong an which can destroy the aircraft. I suspect BBD has a procedure and setup which is much more conservative here and therefore this early part of clearing the flight envelope will take more time, it will be more stretch the envelope, go back a check for the next stretch, fly it and so on. A clearly have a very strong telemetry link where the checking is done in real time at the flight test center, B has more capabilities on-board instead.

With only one flight engineer on board (B has more then 10! at certain cases) and a rather rudimentary flight test center compared to A I think BBD is more classical style here. Once BBD is past this phase things will progress at a more normal pace me thinks

Non French in France
User currently offlineMANYUL From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2013, 67 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 62047 times:

First noise test carried out on 2nd flight fly-by.


Quoting ferpe (Reply 9):
I suspect BBD has a procedure and setup which is much more conservative

I'd have to agree, the time between flight 1 and 2 was spent meticulously going through all the data and creating software upgrades. They won't be rushed, that's for sure.

User currently onlinegolfradio From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 972 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 61924 times:

I am not sure about YMX but here in southern ontario the weather has been wet for the past few days. Not sure how much of a factor weather is at this early stage of testing. Do they still need VMC weather or can they start testing in IMC?

Chuck Norris can stall an Airbus in normal law because laws don't apply to Chuck Noris.
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2809 posts, RR: 60
Reply 12, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks ago) and read 61889 times:

Quoting golfradio (Reply 11):
Do they still need VMC weather or can they start testing in IMC?

I would say they need VMC and low winds, they are not very far in checking out their systems it seems. Good info.

Non French in France
User currently offlineYYZYYT From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1083 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 61245 times:

Quoting MANYUL (Reply 10):
First noise test carried out on 2nd flight fly-by.

Does anyone have any idea when the results will be released? I presume that there will be many further such tests, but was hpping for an early glimpse (it came to mind as I was reading about the ongoing debate re the Porter / YTZ runway extension).


User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2809 posts, RR: 60
Reply 14, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 60793 times:

Lets hope for some action today, the weather looks OK. If they don't fly soon they are working on detected problems.

Non French in France
User currently offlinesirtoby From Germany, joined Nov 2007, 515 posts, RR: 22
Reply 15, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 60644 times:

Quoting ferpe (Reply 14):
Lets hope for some action today, the weather looks OK. If they don't fly soon they are working on detected problems.

Don't expect any flight in the next few days as currently they are doing ground vibrations tests.

User currently offlineAviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 771 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 60539 times:

I don't think it's a good news...
Is it ?

User currently offlinesirtoby From Germany, joined Nov 2007, 515 posts, RR: 22
Reply 17, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 60448 times:

Neither nor...it was planned as far as I know.

User currently offlineAviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 771 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 60384 times:

So it's a planned slow start for the flight tst campaign

User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2809 posts, RR: 60
Reply 19, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 60215 times:

Quoting sirtoby (Reply 15):
as currently they are doing ground vibrations tests

In my book this is done as part of preparing or understanding flutter tests. Any more info why the vibration tests they did before first flight did not suffice?

Non French in France
User currently offlinesirtoby From Germany, joined Nov 2007, 515 posts, RR: 22
Reply 20, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 59713 times:

Quoting ferpe (Reply 19):
Any more info why the vibration tests they did before first flight did not suffice?

No, sorry!

User currently offlinePW100 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2002, 3103 posts, RR: 18
Reply 21, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 59338 times:

Hmm, I'm wondering, the slow flight test progress may suggest to me that they still have significant software challenges in the FWB department. Vibration tests, flutter, low speed, medium altitude, few configuration changes in the first flights all seem to point into defining (not even yet fine-tuning) FBW algorithms and logic patterns.

Hope they can get things going, but even getting other FTV's in the air soon, they don't seem to getting any meaningful flight hours per frame at the moment.
Looks more like a Norwegian 787 operation    than the Shinkansen-like A350 flight test operation . . .


Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 15648 posts, RR: 100
Reply 22, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 59260 times:

Quoting Paolo92 (Reply 6):
Nordic Aviation Capital, a Scandinavian aircraft lessor already Bombardier's customer with the Q-Series and CRJ aircraft, is eyeing a CSeries order, according to Flightglobal.

The question is will Bombardier staff up sufficiently to get going?

I used to work in a system software lab. After almost every flight test the test team wants a software rebuild (I did when I was in flight test). But a new software build must pass in the lab before installation in the aircraft. I suspect Bombardier didn't pay for redundant test benches to debug software before it goes on a main bench. Boeing and Airbus will have 4+ main benches in the system center lab. Only one will be hooked up to the 'iron bird where hydraulics and full control boxes will be actuated (see if there is feedback from power draw to the control system). They will each also have 4 to 8 sub benches. Each bench is expensive for one needs real flight computers, real flight radios, and usually the sub-parts of the aircraft navigation system (e.g., GPS receiver, but not all benches will do simulated GPS transmission onto the actual GPS receivers). I suspect Bombardier needs more benches and is thus having to wait much longer for new software builds.


"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2809 posts, RR: 60
Reply 23, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 58524 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 22):
I suspect Bombardier needs more benches and is thus having to wait much longer for new software builds.

Yes, the difference between the Airbus 350 flight tests and the Cseries is striking. Both said they need a year to do the test, then delivery. The Cseries is systems wise less complex then an A350 but not with much. I think it is time for some aviation Journalist to ask BBD why things are progressing so slowly.

On another tack, better slow then taking risks but then the timeplan will not hold. Not that it matter much, the Cseries will be a 30 years program, better be a few more months late then doing imprudent things   .

Non French in France
User currently offliner2rho From Spain, joined Feb 2007, 3562 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 58359 times:

Quoting ferpe (Reply 23):
Yes, the difference between the Airbus 350 flight tests and the Cseries is striking.

Agree, but as lightsaber mentions, due to their size, A&B can afford much larger test infrastructure. Also, the A350's "dispatch reliability" is surprising and definitely more than one would expect from your average flight test aircraft; they are flying it almost like an airline. The CSeries is indeed disappointing in this aspect, but the comparison to A350 could hurt even Boeing (or the A380 at the time).

One major difference in the test programs (assuming all is on time) is that BBD was planning to have all its test aircraft in the air much earlier than Airbus, who just now has MSN3 but MSN2&4 won't arrive until early 2014. If the remaining CSeries FTV's arrive quickly, they could (partially) compensate their lower dispatch rate per a/c with having more a/c flying sooner.

25 Post contains links KarelXWB : Airchive.com has an article about the CSeries factory, including some nice pictures of FTV4 and 5: http://airchive.com/blog/2013/10/13/...ries-bombard
26 Post contains images EPA001 : Nice find. Interesting to read.
27 lightsaber : I'm amazed at the A350 dispatch. I came out of flight test and that is impressive for this far from EIS. I speculate the problem with the C-series is
28 Post contains links KarelXWB : They have the iron bird working since 2010, although it was not connected to Aircraft Zero until February 2013. This article is a must read: http://w
29 Post contains images EPA001 : So far the approach seems to be the right method and the smooth flight test program is their reward. Let's hope it stays this way. . For the C-series
30 Post contains images ferpe : Airbus is on their (lets count: Concorde, 320, 340/330, 380, 400, 350 =) 6th FBW program and they went digital with the last bit (signal transmission
31 Aircellist : I'd guess right now they may well be more in the learning mode than in the "showing how to" mode
32 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : Look what I found: http://www.stockhouse.com/companies/...d.b/bombardier-inc?postid=21816368
33 tortugamon : Something tells me A & B are not very excited to see the CS300. I wonder what a third member of the family might look like :-0. Its not surprisin
34 NeutronStar73 : I hope they are scared! I'm seriously hoping the C-Series really lives up to the promise, and give the duopoly a kick in the nose. I can't believe th
35 Post contains images EPA001 : I can. A newcomer has to proof itself in the market. Remember Airbus only forecasting 450 sales at the start of the A320 program in the late '80's? B
36 LH707330 : I think it's two things: 1. Everyone's still waiting to see if they fumble inside the 20 2. Some carriers look like they might be upgauging, so there
37 Post contains images EPA001 : and: You sure put it nicely with the reference to American Football. But those less familiar with that beautiful art of sports might have some questi
38 LH707330 : Fair enough, let me internationalize: 1. People might expect them to miss the 1:1 with the keeper or 2. Only score in the second half Either way, I t
39 Post contains images airmagnac : There isn't a single system center lab, the test rigs are distributed as per the traditionnal Airbus workshare in Toulouse (flight related systems),
40 r2rho : Actually, it does seem that with the CSeries BBD is advancing in the same direction as A&B in the area of system integration tests with their new
41 queb : ground vibration testing is now completed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQGHtXXUGQA
42 opethfan : I want to see a CS500 (and its projected economics) quite badly.
43 ferpe : I don't get it, why was this not completed before first flight? Nothing has changed structurally since then and they have flown the aircraft to M 0.6
44 Post contains links KarelXWB : Story on Flightglobal: http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...s-ground-vibration-testing-391806/
45 aviaponcho : They might have adjusted the FE calculation based on flight test results on the "known" part of the flight enveloppe. The ground test might be needed
46 Post contains images lightsaber : Thank you. That puts in nice graphical form (and numbers) why the C-series has pushed both Boeing and Airbus to update their narrowbodies. It also hi
47 Post contains links queb : Program update from Rob Dewar, CSeries program manager. First CS300 fuselage will arrive later this month. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwkhQDDEgdw
48 Post contains images ferpe : Everything looks great except they have flown 3 times in 30 days, that does not look good at all. Why is he not addressing the questions that everyon
49 queb : Maybe because Bombardier had invited more than 70 carriers for the first flight happening and they could not postpone.
50 Post contains images ferpe : Absolutely, that I buy. Now how can that influence indoor testing? Do you mean they invited these people at short notice because they saw a gap in th
51 Post contains links jalarner : One more video on youtube today (Oct 17th), this one the "ESIM" engineering simulator. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k_e0Je-iIds I saw today on my iPho
52 golfradio : Is it possible that they deferred some of the testing for the transonic regime to after the first set of flights? Sort of pull in the first flight dat
53 Post contains links ferpe : This is fully possible, and seems to be supported by the following FlightGlobal story: http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...n-next-cseries-test-fli
54 rikkus67 : Thanks for a most logical question, golfradio, and for the official update, ferpe. Although it seems that progress is at less than a snails pace, I w
55 Post contains images lightsaber : I concur. Something isn't adding up, not if they really have the same flight test schedule as the A350. Oh, we can agree the A350 is a more complex p
56 KarelXWB : Per Twitter reports, China's CDB Leasing signed a conditional purchase agreement for 5 CS100 and 10 CS300 aircraft, plus 15 options.[Edited 2013-10-18
57 Post contains links KarelXWB : And here is the press release: http://www.bombardier.com/en/media-c...rdierdisclosescdbleasingcoltd.html
58 Post contains images lightsaber : Most excellent! I didn't see in your link the conditions. I would assume performance related, but is there more? Lightsaber
59 Dash9 : At last a Chinese order! Its been speculated for a long time and with the tie-up between BBD and Comac I've been expecting more orders from China.
60 Post contains links KarelXWB : There is some outdoor activity again. http://twitter.com/sylvainfaust
61 Paolo92 : The nice thing of the CDB Leasing deal is that they appear to have increased the total, as the "original" conditional order did not include options.
62 JoeCanuck : I agree...BBD totally sucks at communicating...not just flight test details...but anything. It seems like they are very paranoid of releasing informa
63 brilondon : I really don't think that BBD really cares about those of us outside of the aviation industry who have a enthusiast curiosity about the aircraft.
64 pnwtraveler : Unless you are a major shareholder asking for updates. The immediate success of the program hinges on the success of the testing. The immediate long
65 Arrow : Keep in mind that this is a publicly-traded company, listed on both the Toronto and New York Stock Exchanges. They have to be very careful what they
66 planemaker : BBD is not listed on the New York Stock Exchange. Many people assume that it is. However, being listed on the New York Stock Exchange had been an obj
67 arrow : Oops -- you're right. Shouldn't make logical assumptions. Doesn't change the reporting rules, though.
68 planemaker : It does as the NYSE requirements are "stricter" than the TSX... but that is not saying too much. In any case, most people are simply not aware just h
69 jalarner : Anyone watching/owning BBD-B.TO stocks must really like today....they are up 19 cents (and were up 9 cents on friday). Not a huge amount, but it's the
70 Dash9 : They just announced a firm sale of 30 Learjet85 to Flexjet, I guess this explains today's rally.
71 Post contains links CRJ900X : According to the article, Iraqi Airways will be ordering 5 x CS300's from Bombardier. Link: http://www.iraq-businessnews.com/201...et-authorises-bomba
72 Post contains links KarelXWB : Whole article: http://leehamnews.wordpress.com/2013...is-tide-ready-to-turn-for-cseries/
73 CRJ900 : Don't they have enough routes for the last four CR9s? Are those four CR9s already built and stored? If not, no money loss for BBD, I would think. Gre
74 queb : Yes, they are on the tarmac just beside the FAL.
75 Post contains links KarelXWB : FTV1 next flight will be fly-by-wire in "Normal Mode". http://twitter.com/sylvainfaust/status/392728944916439040
76 Post contains links queb : the real question is not "how" but "when" CSeries Awaits Fly-by-Wire ‘Upgrade’ Before Flying Again http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-ne...aits-fl
77 Post contains links KarelXWB : Thanks for sharing the article. Still no real answers though. And a small update on FTV2: http://twitter.com/sylvainfaust/status/392752908405469184
78 EPA001 : Which is a bit disappointing, but they must have their reasons for it. Hope she will fly again soon.
79 Post contains links and images ferpe : Here a fair excerpt: "In an interview with AIN last Friday, Bombardier Commercial Aircraft marketing vice president Philippe Poutissou said the CSeri
80 Post contains images davs5032 : Yes I'm happy with recent gains . Still, though I'm looking more long term for BBD. I feel like the stock is quite under-priced given the potential f
81 Aviaponcho : So new ground vibration test could have been with FBW on and dampening on also ?
82 ferpe : Not quite sure. It would not have been for the whole time, you want to collect the fundamental structural bending modes and resonance frequencies fir
83 Post contains links KarelXWB : FTV1 taxied to the start of the runway: http://twitter.com/sylvainfaust/status/392996655584120832 But an issue prevents her from flying: http://twitte
84 golfradio : Please don't get me wrong, I am not questioning but just trying to wrap my head around this and learn. I am trying to understand the link between the
85 Post contains images ferpe : Don't get me wrong , it was ages since I dwelled on this stuff and I am on thin ice so you should put in question what I write , further I am specula
86 KarelXWB : FTV1 didn't make it into the air today.
87 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : FTV2 is online. http://twitter.com/sylvainfaust/status/393113801060388864/photo/1
88 Quantos : Damnit. I keep seeing planes over my house and think that it's FTV1 :P Just a few minutes ago, a twin-engine jet is over the house as I exit the car.
89 golfradio : Thanks ferpe. I'll chew on this for a while.
90 JoeCanuck : Good stuff...thanks.
91 Post contains images EPA001 : Too bad, hope they will get the flight test and certification process on the way (or better; in the air ) as soon as possible. Yeah, ferpe is teachin
92 Post contains images ferpe : Re a typical FBW system and it's different modes I did a bit of checking after the last post. The Airbus FBW does not have the yaw damper active in di
93 KarelXWB : Not much to report; FTV1 did some high speed taxi tests today.
94 rikkus67 : Minor news at best, Karel. The positive way to look at it, is that the aircraft is moving under its own power. I'd rather have movement, then the airc
95 infiniti329 : Exactly it will save them millions of dollars..ask boeing how much money they gave away
96 YXwatcherMKE : I can't agree more with either of your two statement! I am sure BBD is being very careful with how they proceed, they can't afford to pay out monies
97 Post contains links Dash9 : [quite] A bit off-topic but I finally came across an online version of the documentary around the creation of the original Canadair challenger. With a
98 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : The next flight is scheduled for today. http://twitter.com/sylvainfaust/status/395567001344565248
99 Post contains links yyztpa : Scheduled for 12:40pm local time. http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BBA501 Filed for 250kts and 14,000ft
100 Post contains links KarelXWB : FTV1 is airborne, 4th flight. http://planefinder.net/flight/BBD501
101 ferpe : You see here equally well on FR24, put in BBD as the filter.
102 rlwynn : On FR24 both the live and delayed planes show.
103 KarelXWB : FTV1 is about to land. [Edit] And landed, it was a short flight.[Edited 2013-10-30 14:07:43]
104 EPA001 : But it counts as a flight. Obviously they are very careful and cautious about speeding up the flight test program. I am sure they will have their rea
105 ferpe : I looked at the playback, they went up to 11000 ft and there gradually increased the ground speed to 330kts when going east then this lowered to 260kt
106 sirtoby : The flight was meant to calibrate the trailing cone. Flight length as planned!
107 Post contains images ferpe : Great! You seem to be in the know, please give us more of this kind of information when you can .
108 KarelXWB : FTV3 is online and visible on planefinder.net
109 Post contains images KarelXWB : Al Baker (Qatar) about a possible CSeries order: Chicken, egg
110 Post contains links queb : Bombardier (C-FBCS/BBA501) reported a bird strike during a high speed test on Runway 24 at Mirabel on sept 18th. No damage. http://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/Sa
111 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : Alright, both FTV2 and FTV3 are online.
112 Post contains links KarelXWB : The last flight was not flown in normal mode yet. http://twitter.com/FG_STrim/status/396000380883963904
113 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : Now FTV1 joined the party.
114 Post contains links KarelXWB : Per Bombardier, FTV2 is expected to fly “within weeks”. http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...ircraft-nearing-completion-392410/
115 Post contains links planemaker : Some media coverage of BBD's 3rd QTR release on Thursday with the spotlight falling on the CSeries... Bombardier Inc shares dive after it fails to del
116 KarelXWB : And: I think we all know what this means.
117 Post contains links planemaker : Also coming out on the same day, something that may impact Porter's CS100 plans @ YTO since the mayor is a proponent of expansion and the controversy
118 pnwtraveler : While a major debacle and circus sideshow, has nothing to do with the C Series and very little to do with Porter. Today a major portion of the city b
119 Post contains links and images planemaker : Ford had advance briefing on airport expansion plans Surprise motion by Rob Ford lands Porter Airline jet request on May council agenda . A budget is
120 Post contains links queb : Flight test update from Bombardier. The last flight was for calibration (like sirtoby said earlier). "Following the latest in a period of pre-planned
121 Post contains links KarelXWB : Lion Group President Director Rusdi Kirana says there will be no early decision on whether to place a firm order for Bombardier’s CSeries airliner.
122 Post contains links Paolo92 : Arik Air could add 15 CS300 to its fleet according to Flightglobal and further conversations between Arik and Bombardier are going to take place in th
123 Post contains images lightsaber : Not a bad decision by QR. I'm sure they're still smarting from 787 delays/bugs. By keeping their 'toe in the water,' QR should get a good deal. But f
124 KarelXWB : FTV1 is about to depart on its 5th flight.[Edited 2013-11-05 10:22:31]
125 Post contains links KarelXWB : And airborne http://planefinder.net/flight/BBD501
126 ferpe : I find you follow her better on flightradar24, put in filter BBD and you will see her north of Mirabel, right now FL130 and 160kt groundspeed.
127 Post contains links KarelXWB : Thanks ferpe http://fr24.com/BBD501
128 KarelXWB : And she's back on the ground.
129 JoeCanuck : Damn....it will be so nice when it manages a flight of more than an hour and a half.
130 ferpe : She landed as BBA501 at 20:04 Z, once again a FL130 flight below 300kts. It is not progressing fast I must say, she has still not covered what the A35
131 KarelXWB : The flight looks very similar to the previous flight, probably done in Normal Mode too.
132 golfradio : I hope they haven't run into any serious FBW gotchas. It's a little uncomfortable to see no progress even after almost 2 months of first flight.
133 lightsaber : The A350 had an *amazing* first day of flight and has had an incredible flight test program. I haven't seen anything like it before. By this point in
134 JoeCanuck : The one saving grace, (in a mixed blessing kind of way), is that major fly by wire software changes are on Parker. That doesn't make things any bette
135 sirtoby : Yesterday's flight should have been in normal mode and sort of repliacted the first flight! I wait for confirmation though...
136 Aviaponcho : So going from direct to normal is a great step forward ? Isnt'it ?
137 Post contains images KarelXWB : It would be a good sign of progress, but let's wait until sirtoby confirms it.
138 ferpe : It would explain why they did virtually do the first flight all over again. Still if everything was OK they should have been able to see that in real
139 Aviaponcho : Indeed if they redo the first flighr, it implies same fuel load, same CG and so on So no possibility to extend the flight time The indicator will be t
140 Post contains links KarelXWB : Here's a video of the 5th flight: http://youtu.be/JDnBjgqXUX8
141 Post contains links KarelXWB : FTV1 is airborne again. Bombardier also said the program is still on track: http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-ne...-test-program-plan-bombardier-says
142 Post contains images Quantos : There we go That's two flights in two days, then? They're picking up the pace, then!
143 ferpe : Yup, as BBA501 so add a filter for BBA in Flightradar as well. I have the following filters in FR24: AIB BBD BBA It covers the Airbus and Bombardiers
144 Paolo92 : FTV1 landed back in YMX after a 2hr flight. Apparently it could not retract the static pressure trailing tail cone for landing.
145 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : Picture of the 6th flight: Returning After CSeries Sixth Flight - Bombardier FTV1 by Sylvain Faust, on Flickr
146 Post contains links Paolo92 : New video from Bombardier: Bombardier St-Laurent Manufacturing Center
147 Ruscoe : It could very well be money/cash flow v costs, that is putting a lid on things. Over the years, I have heard several times that this is the most expe
148 Post contains links YYZYYT : Unlikely - BBD as a whole is flush with cash (Q3 statement reports $4 billion in short term capital, $2.6 B in cash): http://ir.bombardier.com/module
149 mad99 : not true try getting paid!
150 larshjort : That's not the same as the company not having money. /Lars
151 mad99 : not the same but i think you'll find when they do not have cash the payments come late
152 YYZYYT : Sure... sometimes. But I also deal with many corporations (public, private) who are in strong financial positions, but are painfully slow to pay but
153 planemaker : If you recall, BBD was conserving cash 11 months ago, going so far as to limit travel. And, more recently, the sale of FlexJet was commented on in bu
154 ytz : Yes. But has there been any evidence of late payments to suppliers? Evidence. Not conjecture. As has been put forward. It's a serious allegation to s
155 planemaker : I just quickly quoted the last post on this topic of "cash" when I should have quoted: However, regarding your post, many businesses as a matter of d
156 Post contains links Paolo92 : Luxair whittles down fleet wish-list to CSeries, E-Jet E2s and MRJs It was already mentioned in one of the previous threads that Luxair could be one o
157 MANYUL : FTV2 to be handed over to the test centre by Monday. With LH's investment in Luxair, and their current order for LX, I wouldn't be surprised to see th
158 Post contains images EPA001 : That is good news to hear. Now let the test team get it up in the air asap.
159 Post contains links golfradio : I came across an article which is behind a paywall ... http://atwonline.com/airframes/swiss-international-air-lines-prepares-bombardier-cseries-delive
160 Post contains links Paolo92 : The article actually says that Swiss plans to receive their first CS100 in Q1 2015 instead of the originally (2009) planned H2 2014. In case of addit
161 golfradio : Thanks Paolo. I was fearing that BBD could have privately advised customers of a further delay.
162 Post contains links and images Paolo92 : FTV1 completed flight number 7 earlier. circa 1 hour flight, flying around 13000ft at 250kt #CSeries 7th flight path and now safe back at @Bombardier_
163 JoeCanuck : Every flight is good, even the short ones...but it sure would be nice to see that thing crack the 13k level. Still...work seems to be progressing ful
164 Paolo92 : Well, up to now, FTV1 has reached a maximum of 25k in altitude and circa 425kt (0,6 mach) in speed. It seems that now they're trying the FBW normal m
165 sirtoby : If my information is correct, yesterdays flight should have been the normal flight checkout flight.
166 Post contains images YxwatcherMKE : If that is true, and it check out okay, we should start seeing longer, faster and higher flights soon. Yes?
167 Post contains links Paolo92 : New CSeries program update video by Rob Dewar: http://youtu.be/3O_QDOXrjEs Some points from the update: - Over 190 hours of flight and ground tests co
168 lightsaber : I hope we are now in normal mode. After a decade in flight testing and some time in system center labs, I would argue otherwise. 98% of the faults are
169 Post contains links KarelXWB : Qatar Says Bombardier CSeries Lacks Flight Tests as Delay Bites: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-1...s-flight-tests-as-delay-bites.html
170 Post contains images planemaker : There is no delay... And if you go a bit further back...
171 EPA001 : That would be nice. The program could use some good news and some new orders. I hope they will get them, and soon.
172 Post contains images ferpe : I am on record for liking the Cseries (nice design with it seems every decision gotten right) and for wishing BBD all the best for bringing it to mark
173 aviaponcho : Ferpe, I guess your right, but once everything is ironed the test fleet, we all hope rapidly complete, can help to make up for the lost time.
174 ferpe : Yes, you right there, my worry then is do they have the test flight organization to orchestrate such an intensive campaign, they have several busines
175 Post contains links Paolo92 : Iraqi Airways order gets official with the signing of a LOI for 5 CS300 +11 options http://www.bombardier.com/en/media-c...airwayssignsletterofintentf
176 Post contains links planemaker : Nevertheless, BBD still has to carry out 2,400 hours of flight testing. According to this article, BBD will no longer provide flight test hours... on
177 StTim : Does not sound good to be honest. If I was the lead customer I would actively be making plans for a late delivery of the promised frames.
178 r2rho : Putting ground test and flight test hours in the same bag to obtain a higher number... playing down the importance of flight tests... this is very wo
179 EPA001 : Very well put imho. I hope they will make some real and significant progress very soon.
180 aryonoco : I'm beginning to doubt EIS in 2014. Let's be honest here, 2015 looks far more likely.
181 Viscount724 : It always amazes me how much longer it takes today's aircraft from first flight to first delivery, compared to many aircraft designed decades ago whe
182 lightsaber : The slow pace of C-series flight testing hurts... I'm a huge fan of this plane and see its huge potential. But I am getting the feeling the system cen
183 planemaker : A year ago... yes, a year has already passed... BBD was still "expecting" an end-of-year 2012 first flight and insisting CSeries EIS 12 months later.
184 KarelXWB : I believe the 777 was certified about 12 months after first flight.
185 Post contains links and images lightsaber : At this rate, the A359 could set the modern record. In 4 months 330 hours out of 2,500 hours. http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/pr...ccessfully-compl
186 KarelXWB : And the A350 is already over 600 hours as of today.
187 Paolo92 : Indeed it is frustrating to see the test program advance so slowly. The plane is almost all the time in the hangar... Still no news on FTV2+3 transfer
188 rikkus67 : With the delays thus far...at least the plane doesn't have plywood doors... potential early in-service wing fatigue cracks, or exploding batteries. ..
189 Post contains images Paolo92 : absolutely agreed!! we want to see those beauties flyin' [Edited 2013-11-21 12:17:29]
190 Viscount724 : Actually 11 months as mentioned in my reply. I guess that's the last one that did it in less than a year.
191 art : Things seem to have gone all quiet. When was the last flight?
192 Post contains images planemaker : As we now know, flight hours are not really that important. Just in case you didn't read it earlier, flight testing will be re-locating to Wichita du
193 Post contains images transaeroyyz : they want to do some tornado testing..
194 Post contains links queb : 6-10 inches of snow next two days at YMX http://www.theweathernetwork.com/weather/canada/quebec/mirabel
195 SSTeve : I say this as an unrepentant Obama voter, but.... ...let's hope they don't have the Obamacare programmers on this job. Software issues can be the wors
196 Post contains links Paolo92 : According to Sylvain Faust on twitter, today the CSeries will be back in the air after 10 days (last flight was on 16NOV). I guess it's going to be FT
197 Post contains images queb : unless Bombardier tell us that ground tests are unnecessary and today 90% of testing are in the hangar.
198 Post contains images EPA001 : Let's hope he is correct. Flight testing can only be done in full when the airplane is in the air. And it is a nice plane to look at, and more divers
199 ADent : CRJ-1000 was 17 months from first flight to delivery.
200 Post contains images planemaker : Yes, indeed! EIS delay was principally due to the rudder software glitches. And while there are some significant modifications from the 900 (such as
201 ac888yow : No. The highly complex and integrated nature of today's airborne electronic equipment vs. yesteryear's is precisely the reason why it takes longer to
202 KarelXWB : FTV1 did not make it into the air, there will be another try today but weather conditions are not looking good.
203 Post contains links Dash9 : its airborne http://www.flightradar24.com/BBA501
204 golfradio : It is coming in to land. Same profile as before under FL250 and under 300kts. They know what they are doing but sure is disappointing to me.
205 Paolo92 : FTV1 back in the air for its 9th flight now.
206 KarelXWB : FTV1 is about to land, that was a very short flight.
207 golfradio : Maybe just me, but the track was off YMX in FR24. Showed it landing at the Dorval golf club .
208 golfradio : Did they just do a touch and go at YUL?
209 Paolo92 : FTV1 actually headed to YUL for a touch&go and then returned to the operational area north-west of Montreal: 9th flight continues.
210 rikkus67 : I guess we'll see what transpires. Whats the chances of opening up the flight envelope??
211 Post contains images Dash9 : LOL I saw the same! As if the aircraft remembered that Canadair used to be at the Cartierville airport, now replaced by a golf course and condos. But
212 Post contains links and images Paolo92 : 9th flight ended after 2h45' circa in the air. Bombardier posted a picture of FTV1 in YUL: https://twitter.com/Bombardier_Aero/status/4064701215203942
213 Post contains images KarelXWB : Yes, looks like she did a touch and go Not a short flight after all.
214 Aircellist : Did anyone start a file for the CSeries' A.net logbook?
215 Paolo92 : I'm keeping track of the flights, but really approximatively, we're at 9 flights - 19 hours[Edited 2013-11-29 10:51:11]
216 Post contains images planemaker : It is getting closer to the end of the year decision... so they buzzed AC.
217 golfradio : LOL Any idea what the max altitude and speed was for today's flight?
218 Post contains links KarelXWB : The first set of CS300 wings are now on their way to Mirabel by boat. http://twitter.com/jonostrower/status/406483704035684353
219 Paolo92 : I've seen the graph on the planefinder app and it was approximately up to FL200, 300kt.
220 Post contains links and images Paolo92 : Here's the graph from today's flight n°9:
221 golfradio : According to Sylvain Faust on Twitter, AC could be close to a CSeries order.
222 SPQR : That would be great news! I'm pretty agnostic in the airframe wars, but it would be nice to see BBD have a success with the Cseries if for no other r
223 Post contains links Paolo92 : CSeries FTV2 transferred to the flight test team today, going to start taxi tests shortly. https://twitter.com/sylvainfaust/status/407488904606912512
224 Post contains images redzeppelin : Nice to hear some good news.
225 Post contains links KarelXWB : Seven CSeries aircraft, including the first CS300, are now in final assembly at Mirabel. http://twitter.com/TheWoracle/status/407515678275825664
226 lightsaber : A pleasant surprise. I would bet on them wanting more flight test data. Lightsaber
227 Post contains images ferpe : It is clear that the progress with the FBW system is very cautious and step by step, BBD has been talking about normal mode for months now but has no
228 Post contains links KarelXWB : It seems that Airbus might win the race though. http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...a-poised-for-a320neo-order-393701/
229 ferpe : Not necessarily, it says they will order a renewal all the way from regional to short haul, it might be split Cseries and A320-321 or not. I hope the
230 Post contains links ferpe : There is some more confusing information in a Bloomberg interview with Guy Hachey: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-1...a-express-about-cseries-orde
231 aryonoco : The AC order is the one BBD can't afford to lose. Really, if AC opts not to buy the C-Series, the program will have a very challenging few years ahead
232 YXwatcherMKE : To Some extent I have to agree, but, I don't think the lack of a AC C-Series order will make it hard on the BBD program. It would be disappointing if
233 ferpe : The comment from Guy Hachey about FTV2 being important to understand the pace of the flight test program can point to something I have been suspecting
234 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : Bombardier has appointed Raymond Jones as its top salesman, replacing Chet Fuller. http://twitter.com/jonostrower/status/407894324706553857
235 PW100 : Well, in corporate public language, you don't change an expected milestone date until you know what the new date is. There will be some soft language
236 EPA001 : Let's hope this will result in a bigger commercial succes for the CSeries.
237 Post contains links and images planemaker : More details here . Chelsea? Don't worry they'll have to move it again (they've already moved it a few times) so that they can attempt to meet the of
238 Alias1024 : Makes one wonder about the results of the Air Canada narrow body competition.
239 KarelXWB : I was thinking the same. Perhaps Bombardier is reorganizing its sales strategy due to the slow sales.
240 Post contains links planemaker : From the Montreal Gazette...
241 PITingres : That sounds more like a termination for cause rather than shuffling out a non-performing exec.
242 Post contains links KarelXWB : Bombardier is waiting until the first 3 CSeries aircraft are flying before announcing a new service-entry date: http://www.aviationweek.com/Article...
243 aviaponcho : Couple Soon That's the 2 words BBD use the most ! Pity
244 Post contains links Paolo92 : Ethiopian Airlines will decide on the replacement of its narrowbody fleet (15x Boeing 737 aircraft) during 2014. All 4 manufacturers are in the runnin
245 Post contains links sirtoby : Maybe today's short 30min. hop was more a demonstration flight with Iraq Airqays management on board rather than a real test flight... http://www.mark
246 ferpe : What do you demonstrate with 270kts max and FL100? This low speed flying is strange.
247 KarelXWB : She's about to takeoff again, 11th flight.
248 aviaponcho : Ferpe, noise is a big big issue with porters order ... so It might be noise on a 30 min flight
249 golfradio : They have already taken field noise measurements previously with low level fly-bys. I doubt that could be it.
250 Post contains links planemaker : Island airport expansion could get bumpy ride
251 Post contains links golfradio : Some more information now. So FTV1 is indeed going to perform high altitude tests. So the good news is that does not seem like there are any speed li
252 ferpe : High altitude is not the same as high speed ie high dynamic pressure (Q). This is where I see that they do not come back to a situation of M 0.6 at F
253 KarelXWB : Yes, At the end of October, Bombardier said FTV2 should fly "in a couple of weeks". We're now 5-6 weeks later and it was just handed over to the flig
254 Post contains links SA7700 : As this thread has become quite long, it will be locked for further contributions. All posts added after the thread lock will be removed for housekeep
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