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New Seasons - Caribbean Aviation Thread 107  
User currently offlineBW424 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Sep 2008, 1435 posts, RR: 2
Posted (1 year 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 21230 times:

Greetings once again to all A.net patrons and welcome to the 107th instalment of this centurion thread.

With recent developments in the region, we see our regional carriers entering new seasons, not only in terms of reduced passenger levels, but also with respect to their overall strategic policies as they move forward. We've seen DAE close its doors, LI's shareholder governments seriously question the viability of the carrier under its current model and BW perform a serious financial diagnostic and internal executive purge. Regardless of the ups and downs, the Caribbean aviation industry has its own unique flavor that has caused all of us that follow this thread to persist with keeping current with the roller-coaster affairs of the region.



******NEWS FEED******
DAE officially closed its doors August 26th/27th 2013
AA discontinues JFK-BGI eff. 15/01/2014 leaving only B6 on the route
BW removes CFO Ramnarine
BW advertises regionally and internationally to fill the critical positions of CEO, COO and CFO
CU first to operate Antonov 158s in region (HAV-CUN & HAV-NAS)
GCAA BW 523 report expected to point to pilot error for cause of crash.
ABM Air of MNI upgrades IT infrastructure to offer online booking.
BA to increase KIN to 4x weekly, PUN to 3x weekly and ANU to 6x weekly for Summer '14 with B772ER
LI takes delivery of first ATR-42-600 (V2-LID) 02/09/2013
BW's fuel subsidy no more as of 01/10/2013
BW and FlyJam denied 5th freedom rights to operate GEO-JFK-GEO rotations
LI CEO Capt. Ian Brunton resigns from his post with the regional carrier
B6 to start daily service to POS from both JFK and FLL with A320
Insel Air expects final approval for nonstop AUA-MIA in Nov. 2013

****MEMBER NOTES*****

817Dreamliiner heads back to MAN via SVG Air and VS



Happy Posting!


It is what we think we know already that prevents us from learning.......
254 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBW424 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Sep 2008, 1435 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (1 year 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 21242 times:

Well, the TSA has approved new procedures to handle in-transit GEO pax at POS. This will hopefully make the intransit experience much less stressful.

"Screening for Guyanese while transiting T&T to end Nov 1st"

"The disembarking and security screening at Trinidad’s Piarco International Airport of Guyanese passengers in-transit to the US will be something of the past effective November 1, 2013, according to a release today from the Cheddi Jagan International Airport, Timehri.

The release said that the United States of America Transport Security Administration (TSA) has approved the request for an alternative procedure to be applied for Guyanese passengers transiting in Port of Spain (POS).

Robeson Benn, Minister of Transport said he is pleased with the decision."

http://www.stabroeknews.com/2013/new...hile-transiting-tt-to-end-nov-1st/



It is what we think we know already that prevents us from learning.......
User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9891 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (1 year 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 21139 times:

Thanks for starting the new thread BW424. In the member notes or news section I would like to add that I took photos of the first 747-8 in Curacao 

Also, Arke (previously known as Arkefly) showed its new name and livery on its long haul network on their flight to Curacao which shows how important Curacao is to Arke  Smile

A388

[Edited 2013-10-13 17:14:22]

User currently offlineBW424 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Sep 2008, 1435 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (1 year 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 21083 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 2):
Thanks for starting the new thread BW424. In the member notes or news section I would like to add that I took photos of the first 747-8 in Curacao 

Also, Arke (previously known as Arkefly) showed its new name and livery on its long haul network on their flight to Curacao which shows how important Curacao is to Arke

You're welcome A388. I'm sorry I forgot to add those notes my friend. I'll be sure next time to double check to ensure everything is covered.



It is what we think we know already that prevents us from learning.......
User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9891 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (1 year 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 21059 times:

No problem BW424, that's why we are all here for, to help each other  

Cheers my friend,

A388


User currently offlineguyanam From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1411 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (1 year 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 20856 times:

Quoting BW424 (Reply 1):

Problem is that even on southbound flights there appear to have been instances when Guyanese had to go through checks before boarding for GEO. Even on the 483 instransit passengers have had to do this, even though its the same plane which continued to GEO. This has driven some people to PY.

Does LI make passengers go through these checks at BGI?


User currently offlineBW424 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Sep 2008, 1435 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (1 year 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 20763 times:

"Ramiz: ‘DAE was murdered’ "

"The local airline Dutch Antilles Express (DAE) was on its way to implement its fourth phase of the project of recovery. Finally all hurdles were overcome with the intentional delays of the Curacao Civil Aviation Authorities (CCAA) under the grip of Giselle Hollander. The airline had received all 3 ATR’s 72-200 and its entire 3 MD 83 fleet. With its 3 F100, the airline had 9 aircrafts that would have made its expansion possible. For months, the company was hiring staff and crews to be well prepared for what promised to be an excellent last 6 month of 2013.

Today the airline is history and close to 50 thousands passengers were stranded unable to travel to the U.S. alone and over 21 thousands passengers were stranded from August 30 to December 2013. In Venezuela between 25 thousands passengers with booked and purchased tickets but were unable to travel due to INAC’s sanctions on the airline and the rest to Santo Domingo, Aruba, Bonaire, Sint Maarten and Surinam."

http://www.curacaochronicle.com/columns/ramiz-dae-was-murdered/


Very interesting read. What do our well-informed Dutch-Caribbean friends here on the forum make of this article? I honesty believe DAE dug its own grave; helter-skelter expansion with egos before business sense. This is only my opinion.

On another note, CM's fares for POS-PTY seem to be steep ($700-900). They must certianly be enjoying the increased traffic between POS and Latin America with all the trade agreements that are now coming into play. I can only imagine the great yields on the route. I won't be surprised to see it go from 12x weekly to 2x daily soon.

[Edited 2013-10-14 17:16:49]


It is what we think we know already that prevents us from learning.......
User currently offlineLimaFoxTango From Antigua and Barbuda, joined Jun 2004, 790 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (1 year 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 20680 times:

Quoting guyanam (Reply 5):
Does LI make passengers go through these checks at BGI?

LI pax who transit BGI must go thru security just like they would thru ANU. Haven't heard any complaints about either.

V2-LIH spotted. Clearly this one breaks the reg sequence. Should be in ANU before month end.

http://www.planespotters.net/Aviation_Photos/photo.show?id=415700



You are said to be a good pilot when your take-off's equal your landings.
User currently offlineinfiniti329 From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 703 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 20666 times:

Quoting BW424 (Thread starter):
BW and FlyJam denied 5th freedom rights to operate GEO-JFK-GEO rotations

Why was BW denied the GEO-JFK route? If I am not mistaken BW is the flag carrier of Guyana?


User currently offline817Dreamliiner From Montserrat, joined Jul 2008, 2472 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (1 year 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 20642 times:

Quoting LimaFoxTango (Reply 7):
V2-LIH spotted. Clearly this one breaks the reg sequence. Should be in ANU before month end.

http://www.planespotters.net/Aviation_Photos/photo.show?id=415700

Interesting. Planespotters had this one listed to go to AZUL. Im actually curious as to why they aren't going in sequence with the registrations.



Reality be Rent. Synapse, break! Vanishment, This World!
User currently offlineviasa From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 1884 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (1 year 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 20547 times:

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 9):
Im actually curious as to why they aren't going in sequence with the registrations.

Perhaps msn 1008, 1010 and another ATR42-600s will be V2-LIE, V2-LIF and V2-LIG...


User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9891 posts, RR: 15
Reply 11, posted (1 year 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 20540 times:

Quoting BW424 (Reply 6):
Very interesting read. What do our well-informed Dutch-Caribbean friends here on the forum make of this article? I honesty believe DAE dug its own grave; helter-skelter expansion with egos before business sense. This is only my opinion.

I agree with you. DAE expanded to rapidly. A correction that needs to be made, DAE never received more than one ATR72. There was always just one ATR72 flying for them, nothing more. The other two never arrived in Curacao. The three Fokker 100's they had never flew at the same time. In most cases only one was flying. The other one was parked inside the hangar most of the time and the third one that got painted in their new livery was abroad all that time for maintenance.

Cheers,

A388


User currently offlineGUYAIR707 From Guyana, joined Jan 2011, 708 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 20453 times:

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 8):

I guess flag carrier status stands for nothing with this issue. Begs the question, what does it stand for?

GUYAIR707


User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2654 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (1 year 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 20349 times:

Quoting BW424 (Reply 6):
On another note, CM's fares for POS-PTY seem to be steep ($700-900). They must certianly be enjoying the increased traffic between POS and Latin America with all the trade agreements that are now coming into play. I can only imagine the great yields on the route. I won't be surprised to see it go from 12x weekly to 2x daily soon.

I could think that would happen quite soon.
I'd like to see PTY-NAS upgraded to daily soon too.



I'm not on CM's payroll.
User currently offlineBW424 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Sep 2008, 1435 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (1 year 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 20341 times:

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 8):
Why was BW denied the GEO-JFK route? If I am not mistaken BW is the flag carrier of Guyana?

Very good question. I would think that BW can now appeal this decision seeing that the case of unfair competition due to subsidized fuel is now void. As the designated flag carrier of Guyana, BW should be able to start and terminate nonstop flights in GEO without an intermediate point before or after GEO.

I guess things will play out once the new executive is in place.

For the time being, I see CAL is cleaning up their external image somewhat with their aircraft. All the "graffiti" that was on the 738s such as the 50th independence logo and the unreadable "Trinidad and Tobago-Home of the steel pan" have been removed from the entire fleet. This is a subtle but great move of intent. CAL is no longer solely a Trini carrier as it largely serves both Jamaican and Guyanese interests. The 50th independence logo was in very poor taste. It not only looked awful, but it also excluded Jamaica which was also celebrating 50 years of independence in the same month. It would have been an commendable corporate act of goodwill if they did a combined logo or even a logo jet to represent both T&T and Jamaica.

Anyway, this is all in the past under very poor management. Logojets and special liveries should be left untouched till the airline re-stabilizes itself.



It is what we think we know already that prevents us from learning.......
User currently offlineandrefranca From Brazil, joined May 2011, 622 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 20315 times:

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 13):
I'd like to see PTY-NAS upgraded to daily soon too.

I'd love to see a CM PTY-PLS or a PTY-GCM   or one day who knows PTY-BDA?

Quote:
The majority of the 300 plus employees are still out of a job many lost their homes and today are sleeping in their cars.

oh my gosh, that's so sad.

Well I can't say much cause I only had the chance to fly twice with DAE and on both occasions the service in general was not that good if compared to INSEL, but anyways...

They only said they'd fly to MAO I also though it was a little ambitious, even though PY does some charter flights to AUA from here.

I'm concerned about the airline industry in the caribbean! strange tides coming closer!  Sad

[Edited 2013-10-15 18:37:50]

User currently offlineBW424 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Sep 2008, 1435 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (1 year 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 20305 times:

"Sky Bahamas Loses $123,000 In Weekend Sick-Out"

"By KHRISNA VIRGIL"

Tribune Staff Reporter

kvirgil@tribunemedia.net

SKY Bahamas lost more than $123,000 when 12 of the company’s pilots staged a sick out over the weekend, confirmed CEO Captain Randy Butler yesterday.

According to Butler the airline was left scrambling to find alternative measures to accommodate scores of passengers when the pilots did not report to work on Saturday.

He believes that the pilots have been misguided by a newly formed union, the Bahamian Pilots Alliance (BPA), which is trying to “strong arm” Sky Bahamas’ management into granting requests that are unrealistic."

http://www.tribune242.com/news/2013/...mas-loses-123000-weekend-sick-out/



It is what we think we know already that prevents us from learning.......
User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9891 posts, RR: 15
Reply 17, posted (1 year 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 20165 times:

Hi guys,

These are my latest photos added to the website:



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Roger Cannegieter - Curacao Aviation Photography
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Roger Cannegieter - Curacao Aviation Photography




I like the 747-8 cockpit 

A388


User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2654 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (1 year 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 20156 times:

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 15):
I'd love to see a CM PTY-PLS or a PTY-GCM   or one day who knows PTY-BDA?

Except for PTY-GCM, numbers might be very thin, but probably because the type of passenger demand, those routes could be viable.



I'm not on CM's payroll.
User currently offlineguyanam From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1411 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (1 year 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 20140 times:

Quoting LimaFoxTango (Reply 7):

LI has its own terminal at BGI so that passengers do not have the inconvenience that occurs at POS. ANU is a small terminal so the recheck is not a problem either as no extra walking is entailed.

Who ever designed POS didnt understand its potrential as a hub.

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 8):

The US doesnt recognize BW or FJ as flag carriers because Guyana doesnt have any ownership in either, nor is either carrier based in GEO. It did before with GND and BGI and ANU as BWIA and/or JM had turn around rights at those points w/o having to proceed, or operate via their main bases.

DL sabotaged this move for GEO. Yes they hid it behind this group, but its clear that the only US carrier interested in what happens on the JFK GEO is DL, and DL doesnt want any competition on that route, aside from fly by night charters that is.

Canada recognizes flag carrier status under the "community of interests" principle. FJ is a Jamaica airline, BW is a Trinidadian/Jamaican airline and both nations share CARICOM membership with Guyana.

Quoting BW424 (Reply 14):

Dont know if an appeal by BW is possible, as I believe that GoTT has already told the USDOT that the fuel subsidy is no longer in existence. That was a smoke screen as FJ would not have also being banned from doing JFK GEO JFK flights. The US DOT does not want community of interest rights to be extended to GEO, even though it was applied to GND, BGI, UVF, and ANU in times past.

Well lets hope that this "new" CAL management addresses issues raised by both the govt of Guyana and of the Guyanese public at large...working with the GOTT in doing so (POS needs to become more intransit friendly, using PTY as an example of how this can be done). Its good that TSA required rechecks no longer seem necessary, but a smoother way of rechecking passengers switching from BW to BW should be worked out. Even LI seems to handle this bettere at BGI and ANU than BW does at POS.


In the mean while rumors exist that DL is negotiating to get back to GEO. Given that they had nothing against BW until the latter began JFK GEO nonstops (BW was already benefitting from the fuel subsidy when DL began its GEO service) the catalyst for their tantrums was when BW was given flag carrier status. Guyana is rumored to be actively considering withdrawing this flag carrier status, using the high levels of dissatisfaction of the passengers with both BW and POS, as an excuse. The consensus is that Guyanese are not benefitting from this, and if this blocks service by other carriers, then it is not necessary.

Quoting A388 (Reply 11):

Has Insel expanded to fill the gap of DAE? On routes to Venezuela especially?

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 13):
Quoting BW424 (Reply 6):

Wonder what the final destination of all these POS PTY passengers are? Maybe if its elsewhere in Latin America, and trhe volumes are sufficient, BW can start nonstop service, resulting in lower fares.


User currently offlineBeeski From US Virgin Islands, joined Dec 2006, 53 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 20106 times:

The FIFA World Cup trophy is on STX today.
Being flown to Brazil in a custom painted MD-80 (not sure which flavor Mad Dog)


User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9891 posts, RR: 15
Reply 21, posted (1 year 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 20087 times:

Quoting guyanam (Reply 19):
Quoting A388 (Reply 11):


Has Insel expanded to fill the gap of DAE? On routes to Venezuela especially?

I don't know if they have expanded their services to Venezuela but I don't think so. I'm not sure if the bilateral agreement allows them to expand but I have heard that many foreign airlines who want to increase their number of flights to Venezuela can't do that because the INAC prohibits them. I don't know to what extend this is actually true but I have seen that the prices of tickets from CCS are very high. A few years ago I checked for a flight from CCS to ATL (just for fun) and got a ticket price of 1400 USD on DL so that may be caused by a limited number of available seats but that's just my take on it. Who knows, I may be totally wrong with this so I stand corrected if this is the case.

A388


User currently offlineguyanam From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1411 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (1 year 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 20057 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 21):

Are seats readily available to SXM, MIA, and SDQ, I think being other popular routes which DAE flew?

One thing about DAE's expansion is that they might have been adding un needed capacity.


User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6215 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (1 year 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 20024 times:

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 18):

Except for PTY-GCM, numbers might be very thin, but probably because the type of passenger demand, those routes could be viable.

Doesn't CM codeshare with KX on its PTY flight.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 19):
Wonder what the final destination of all these POS PTY passengers are?

Lots of O&d to PTY. And not an insignificant amount are doing POS-PTY-SAL-BZE on a CM-AV combo.....



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineguyanam From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1411 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (1 year 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 20020 times:

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 23):

This because BW wants to expand into Latin America and seems to be talking about PTY. Lacking the hub that CM has at that airport I am wondering how competitive they will be. But if there is so much O&D then maybe they can do this, and introduce some competition. Dont know why those fares must be so high.


User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6215 posts, RR: 2
Reply 25, posted (1 year 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 20064 times:

Quoting guyanam (Reply 24):
This because BW wants to expand into Latin America and seems to be talking about PTY. Lacking the hub that CM has at that airport I am wondering how competitive they will be. But if there is so much O&D then maybe they can do this, and introduce some competition. Dont know why those fares must be so high.

Speaking from personal experience, once Caribbean folk discover the shopping in PTY (like the rest of Lat America) that ttraffic starts to grow exponentially.

There is a saying ....half of latin america shops in MIA, the other half in PTY. POS folks are starting to discover that.

and that PTY free zone...supplies A LOT of stores in the Caribbean region



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineguyanam From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1411 posts, RR: 1
Reply 26, posted (1 year 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 20046 times:

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 25):

So BW can start POS PTY, especially of they feed PBM, BGI, and GEO. Maybe more like 3X per week. Based on seats available more Trinis shop in PTY than Jamaicans.


User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2654 posts, RR: 1
Reply 27, posted (1 year 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 20100 times:

Quoting guyanam (Reply 26):
So BW can start POS PTY, especially of they feed PBM, BGI, and GEO. Maybe more like 3X per week. Based on seats available more Trinis shop in PTY than Jamaicans.

POS-GND-PTY instead of POS-PTY non-stop may help the yields..
Even with feed from PBM, GEO and BGI thru not-so-connecting-passenger-friendly POS, if it's a thrice-weekly service, it'd be such a minor competitor to a twice daily PTY-POS.
Now if BW is allow to fly something like POS-CCS-PTY or POS-CCS-KIN-PTY, then we're talking about a whole different kind of route and traffic potential.
How about scissors-hub KIN, POS-CCS-KIN/KIN-MIA and POS-MAR-KIN/KIN-PTY. There might actually be some oil-related traffic demand between MAR and POS.



I'm not on CM's payroll.
User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9891 posts, RR: 15
Reply 28, posted (1 year 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 20095 times:

Hey guyanam,

What's up. Seats to SXM and SDQ I think can always be found on Insel Air. MIA can be full and AA what I have seen is over booked practically the entire year. PBM might have some room for more flights but not that much as far as I know. Other routes aren't that popular.

Regarding the POS-PTY route, are most passengers coming from POS or from PTY? When DAE operated flights from CUR to PTY the flight wasn't performing well but since CM started the flight they are doing a better job since bring passengers from abroad to CUR which of course is a much bigger market.


Cheers,

A388


User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6215 posts, RR: 2
Reply 29, posted (1 year 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 20075 times:

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 27):
POS-CCS-PTY

Now that would be a goldmine.....CCS-PTY mints money and CM is desperate for more frequencies.

Quoting A388 (Reply 28):
When DAE operated flights from CUR to PTY the flight wasn't performing well but since CM started the flight they are doing a better job since bring passengers from abroad to CUR which of course is a much bigger market.

It is always easy to fill the first 50% of the plane with O&D...it is piecing the rest together with connecting feed that makes or breaks the route. That was the difference between DAE And CM



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineandrefranca From Brazil, joined May 2011, 622 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (1 year 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 20060 times:

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 25):
There is a saying ....half of latin america shops in MIA, the other half in PTY

There's some truth on that but PTY is getting expensive! #medon'tlikeit! :/


User currently offlineLimaFoxTango From Antigua and Barbuda, joined Jun 2004, 790 posts, RR: 2
Reply 31, posted (1 year 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 20055 times:

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 9):
Interesting. Planespotters had this one listed to go to AZUL. Im actually curious as to why they aren't going in sequence with the registrations

Planespotters now has it listed correctly. I'm told the next -42 might be LIF so regs may not be out of sequence after all.



You are said to be a good pilot when your take-off's equal your landings.
User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9891 posts, RR: 15
Reply 32, posted (1 year 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 20052 times:

You are right yellowtail. That is precisely what I meant. This is also why I asked if the majority of the passengers come from POS (local traffic) or not. What are the growth projections on this route both for the local market and the international markets? What percentage of the Florida market does CM steal away from the direct flights now or how big will that be in the coming years? What new markets has CM opened up so far and potential is their for the coming years? Will a second daily flight stimulate all this even more or make new possibilities possible? These are just a few questions Trinidad needs to analyze (or have an external consultant to the route analysis and potential).

A388


User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6215 posts, RR: 2
Reply 33, posted (1 year 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 19905 times:

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 29):
There's some truth on that but PTY is getting expensive! #medon'tlikeit! :/

So is Miami.....Houston seems to be the new USA shopping place as of late.

Quoting A388 (Reply 32):
This is also why I asked if the majority of the passengers come from POS (local traffic) or not. What are the growth projections on this route both for the local market and the international markets? What percentage of the Florida market does CM steal away from the direct flights now or how big will that be in the coming years? What new markets has CM opened up so far and potential is their for the coming years? Will a second daily flight stimulate all this even more or make new possibilities possible? These are just a few questions Trinidad needs to analyze

Well, why would I tell you this if

Quoting A388 (Reply 32):
(or have an external consultant to the route analysis and potential).

BW would pay me to do this...... 



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9891 posts, RR: 15
Reply 34, posted (1 year 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 19859 times:

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 33):
BW would pay me to do this......

Haha, okay. All the best to you guys.

A388


User currently offlineguyanam From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1411 posts, RR: 1
Reply 35, posted (1 year 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 19840 times:

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 27):

I was of the impression that foreign carriers, interesting in developing markets out of Venezuela are looking for problems. First being delays in getting route rights to operate to third countries. Second being problems in getting cash from fares paid in Venezuela out of that country. So I do not think that CCS offers much for BW, even though the market potential might be there, beyond the POS CCS market. .

CM seems to have KIN PTY under control, and BW is not that looved in Jamaica as we know. It does enjoy some patriotic patronage out of POS, so might snatch some business from CM, with fares being as high as they are, If the O&D crowd includes a lot of shoppers I cant imagine that they wouldnt want lower fares, especially given that fares to MIA are usually quite competitive.

I have a notion that Jamaicans will always prefer MIA, so the KIN PTY market is small. But because MIA is as far from POS as PTY is, E/Caribbean travelers might be more open to exploring PTY, if it is competitive. Also as a new vacation destaination with its casinos and other entertainment, and that whole Panama Canal thing. But the fares are high and only POS enjoys direct service. But clearly the increasing difficulties and expense of getting US visas might encourage some to look elsewhere, just as SJU has lost out to SXM.

BW should explore this segment, and improve its intransits situation in POS to feed GEO, GND, BGI, and maybe SLU. Indeed as more Caribbean islands are looking to build tourism outside of the traditional North America/Europe, Brazil with its huge population, is one that many look to, in addition to Russia, another BRIC nation. Maybe POS can serve as a hub, with subsidies until the route becomes viable, this based on building Brand Caribbean in Braail as the Caribbean Tourism Org always aspires to do.

Quoting A388 (Reply 28):

I think that most on the POS PTY are POS originating.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 33):

BW probably should. Given their problems they cannot afford to get into routes, just because they sound nice. Is PTY feasible for BW, given their lack of connectivity to points beyond, unlike CM? Are their markets in Latin America that can be developed if direct routes were established?

BW has exhausted its easy routes and, if they wish to expand, will need to go into second tier markets in the USA, like Wash DC, or into Latin America. Unless they jump into the NGI JFK now I do not see scope for them to expand their networks from other carib islands to the USA.


User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9891 posts, RR: 15
Reply 36, posted (1 year 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 19812 times:

Quoting guyanam (Reply 35):
Quoting A388 (Reply 28):


I think that most on the POS PTY are POS originating.
Quoting guyanam (Reply 35):
Is PTY feasible for BW, given their lack of connectivity to points beyond, unlike CM?

I think that you answered your own question here. If the market between POS and PTY indeed is mostly POS originating, than Caribbean Airlines doesn't need connectivity...

Quoting guyanam (Reply 35):
Are their markets in Latin America that can be developed if direct routes were established?

... if Caribbean Airlines wants to develop Latin American markets, than they need to work on their connectivity through POS, yes. The problem here is like you also said yourself, CM is much bigger and much more powerful in these markets.


A388


User currently offlineguyanam From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1411 posts, RR: 1
Reply 37, posted (1 year 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 19762 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 36):

Once BW and POS improve the intransit process then IF there is sufficient market demand between POS/BGI/SLU/GEO, and a NARROW range of Latin destinations (PTY possibly being one GRU/GIG being another) then they can start service. BW will NEVER be able to develop a route structure based on a strong hub as CM has done, and if they think that they can they dream. The intent should be to strengthen particular routes by adding feed, with the assumption that a market doesnt exist for point to point service. So routes to PTY, or GRU, or GIG will not depend on POS alone, but can be enhanced by passengers connecting from other nearby points.

A thorough market/route analysis shoukd be undertaken by BW to determine whether these routes are feasible, as it is not obvious that they are. Indeed the degree of O&D traffic between POS and PTY should be determined and not left to conjecture. Maybe travel agents in POS/BGI/GEO/SLU/PBM can be polled to see if they think that PTY can be used as a shopping destination in addition to MIA, taking into account that there are no visa requirements. Certainly SXM has developed this trade, at the expense of SJU, largely due to the US visa issue. Duty free shopping is always a major draw.

Also if certain govts think that they can develop a tourism market in Brazil, as an example, but are unable to interest GOL, or do not want to be totally dependent on GOL then a subsidy, combined with extensive brand image development for the caribbean at large, combined with specific promotional activities to develop demand for the route can be taken. This is a pie in the sky dream because Caribbean countries lack trust for each other to embark on such a venture, but if they seriiosly wish to develop a Brazilian market they will have to. Only a few Caribbean destinations are on the radar of most Brazilian tourists.


User currently offlineandrefranca From Brazil, joined May 2011, 622 posts, RR: 0
Reply 38, posted (1 year 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 19702 times:

Quoting guyanam (Reply 35):
Brazil with its huge population, is one that many look to

It is but there are several things to take into account, first: Brazilians may be latino but we think/behave very differently if compared to spanish america. We may be a portuguese colony but we have too much french values/influence if ever noticed, we borrow a lot of french words/laws/thoughts and so on, even the portuguese can't figure it out sometimes. I'm able to speak french cause I was taught in french as well at school.

My point here is: Many many Corps catering to latin america made huge mistakes when they entered our market, the most "infamous" one: selling products with description only in spanish.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 37):
So routes to PTY, or GRU, or GIG will not depend on POS alone, but can be enhanced by passengers connecting from other nearby points.

I doubt BW will make a move to serve Brazil on the following decades.

1- most of the people here are clueless of trinidad and tobago
2- BW doesn't have an image here
3- people are afraid of geting stranded and won't be able to speak english, therefore no assistance.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 37):
Also if certain govts think that they can develop a tourism market in Brazil, as an example, but are unable to interest GOL, or do not want to be totally dependent on GOL then a subsidy, combined with extensive brand image development for the caribbean at large, combined with specific promotional activities to develop demand for the route can be taken. This is a pie in the sky dream because Caribbean countries lack trust for each other to embark on such a venture, but if they seriiosly wish to develop a Brazilian market they will have to. Only a few Caribbean destinations are on the radar of most Brazilian tourists.

I keep saying the popular caribbean destination in brazil are the 50-60's classic ones: the dutch islands, here when we listen of:

AUA CUR SXM we think of classy, chic destinations, polyglot people, colorful dutch houses, good shopping, excellent beaches, low crime.

when we listen of: NAS GCM BDA PUJ wwwoooww wait a minute, you're rich right? what does your father do?

KIN MBJ : ahaaaaaa you smoke? that's a classic, and should not be ignored as I was refused entry in BGI after arriving from jamaica and having to answer the same questions to 5 or 6 different officers and finally having a "melt down" or stress attack you name it.

GND BGI ANU POS SVD SLU STT EIS PLS DOM SKB: where the hell are there?

CUN : party, sex, drugs and lots of tacos.

sorry for some stereotypes, but they do apply here.


User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6215 posts, RR: 2
Reply 39, posted (1 year 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 19591 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 36):
I think that you answered your own question here. If the market between POS and PTY indeed is mostly POS originating, than Caribbean Airlines doesn't need connectivity...

Didn't CM start with an Ejet?

a 738 is just too much aircraft for BW to start with...



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9891 posts, RR: 15
Reply 40, posted (1 year 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 19560 times:

Quoting guyanam (Reply 37):
So routes to PTY, or GRU, or GIG will not depend on POS alone, but can be enhanced by passengers connecting from other nearby points.

Even those nearby points you mention, won't have sufficient people wanting to go to South America yearround. It may work for some vacation periods in the year but not yearround.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 39):
Quoting A388 (Reply 36):
I think that you answered your own question here. If the market between POS and PTY indeed is mostly POS originating, than Caribbean Airlines doesn't need connectivity...


Didn't CM start with an Ejet?

I think they did but to my knowledge it was upgauged to the 73G fairly quickly. Someone please correct if I'm wrong. CUR normally is an E190 but regularly we get the 73G and as you can see even the 738 at times.

A388


User currently offlinecaribbean484 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Jan 2007, 2638 posts, RR: 2
Reply 41, posted (1 year 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 19508 times:

Thanks BW424 for the new forum, been really busy so I can't post as much anymore lol

Well the situation is taking an interesting turn for the 7th freedom rights between GEO-JFK.

http://www.kaieteurnewsonline.com/20...aica-appeal-meets-more-objections/

So in effect, the Airlines for America is really a disguise Delta was using voice its concern for both CAL and DL on the route. The Governments of Guyana and Jamaica have seem to join to get both airlines the rights to fly the route, stating that no US airline is showing any interest in flying the route Non-Stop.

What is interesting is DL finally admits why it left the route;
"Delta’s decision to exit the JFK-GEO market was not taken lightly “for its own commercial reasons” as suggested by Fly Jamaica in its Petition. (Page 2) Rather, after five years of successfully operating nonstop service on the JFK-GEO route, Delta was forced to terminate service due to the entry of a state sponsored, state-subsided carrier using an aggressive interpretation of 5th freedom operating rights."

But this is a really interesting statement from Delta:
"Delta is actively monitoring the JFK-GEO route. In an environment free from the harmful, effects of state, sponsorship and subsidy, and aggressive and undue reliance on 5th, freedom operations by third country countries, Delta is fully prepared to resume service."

Docket DOT-OST-2013-0136

One of two things will have to happen, as a CAL manager said, Guyana needs to get its act together and return to CAT1, thereby CAL will then register the company in Guyana and take advantage of all the freedoms associated with it.
Or this may go to Federal Courts and make a case before a judge in D.C. of being unfairly treated.

Either way its a long battle and Delta is seems to have a large interest in Guyana for some reason or the other to block competition on this market.



All ah we is one family
User currently offlineguyanam From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1411 posts, RR: 1
Reply 42, posted (1 year 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 19458 times:

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 38):

The belief is that the Caribbean has already achieved maximum penetration of its traditional markets, so that future grwth will have to be from new markets. Russia has proven to be a success with thousands of tourists pouring into Cuba, DR, Jamaica, and even SKB attracting some investment dollars for new villa resort projects.

With almost 200 million Brazil is seen as too big to ignore, and too close, once airlift is improved.

The intent is to begin to market BRAND Caribbean. Firstly developing an awareness among Brazilians about what the Caribbean has to offer. SXM is very different from CUR/AUA, as you are aware. If you like SXM, why not try ANU? The French side of SXM isnt that different from SKB (at least in my opinion). BGI is a classy destination, if there ever is one, though they need to train their customs and immigration people to stop thinking that God is a Bajan and that he must only like North Americans and Western Europeans. SLU has an exotic blend of the French/Anglo Caribbean. Talking about a small island with its own unique culture, definitely GND. And so it goes.

But then Brazilians will need to become aware of this, just as you did. And before each Caribbean island attempts to promote itself an overall awareness of the diversity of the Caribbean will need to be developed. BRAND Caribbean.

I will also tell you a little secret. Most people in the Anglophone Caribbean prefer Brazilians to your Spanish speaking neighbors. I consider the parts of Brazil stretching from Pernambuco to Rio to be an extension of the Caribbean, with its creole culture arising from the merger of Euro/Afro/Indigenous roots. But you probably know this already. So is suspect that Brazilians who are open to the locals will be well treated in most islands.

BW is an alternate if GOL isnt interested, but it will have to be subsidized with route guarantees as the route will clearly be a loss maker in the beginning. It cannot rush in now and expect to succeeed.

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 41):

Like I said DL wanted to keep its monopoly on the JFK GEO nonstop route. Every argument that they can raise against BW (state subsidies, etc) does NOT apply to FJ. So the fact that they are blocking FJ suggests that their intention is to bring Guyana to its knees and force it to accept what ever terms DL dictates. As I previously stated, rumors exist that DL is still interested in this route, and most likely want to force Guyana into withdrawing flag carrier status from BW and forcing it back to running all its JFK bound flights via POS. And also getting various fee waivers as well.

Put it this way. DL knows full well that for a variety of reasons GEO is not an attractive destination for most US carriers. Aside from JFK the market is too small, and as we can see with BGI, AA is pulling back out of its NYC Caribbean routes. So DL has GEO by the throat and intends to squeeze it. If BW used to fly POS BGI JFK with no objections from any one,, why is DL implying that not only do they intend to block GEO JFK, but they wish that they can also block POS GEO JFK.

Clearly the GEO market needs competition on the JFK GEO. Clearly DL wishes to do every thing that it can to prevent this.


As to BW setting up some subsidiary in GEO if they get Cat 1. I really dont think that this will be possible, unless Guyana obtains significant decision making input into their GEO operations, and I am not sure what they will demand is what BW will be willing to offer. Many Guyanese will want to know why a Trini entity, which they claim has been cruel to Guyanese, both in its current form, and as BWIA, must be given preference over a Guyanese who might wish to establish a 100% Guyanese owned airline. And the problem for BW is that they get blamed, not only for what they do, but for the entirety of what goes wrong at POS. Arrogant airport officials and a terminal building which is hostile to intransits. And for haughty attitudes that more than a few Trinis display to Guyanese who visit/live on that island.

You will note that Guyana is agitating for FJ to get JFK GEO JFK, with no mention of BW getting those rights.


User currently offlineandrefranca From Brazil, joined May 2011, 622 posts, RR: 0
Reply 43, posted (1 year 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 19381 times:

Quoting guyanam (Reply 42):
I will also tell you a little secret. Most people in the Anglophone Caribbean prefer Brazilians to your Spanish speaking neighbors. I consider the parts of Brazil stretching from Pernambuco to Rio to be an extension of the Caribbean, with its creole culture arising from the merger of Euro/Afro/Indigenous roots. But you probably know this already. So is suspect that Brazilians who are open to the locals will be well treated in most islands.

Agreed, if you ever make it to SLZ I don't know if you made it there so far, Reggae and caribbean vibe is KING.


User currently offlineBW424 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Sep 2008, 1435 posts, RR: 2
Reply 44, posted (1 year 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 19390 times:

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 39):
Didn't CM start with an Ejet?

a 738 is just too much aircraft for BW to start with...

Yes, CM did indeed start the route with an E-190 5x weekly and with a government guaranteed seat block purchase if load factors did not meet the agreed figure. I do not believe CM has ever used this guarantee and we can all understand why this is so.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 23):
Lots of O&d to PTY. And not an insignificant amount are doing POS-PTY-SAL-BZE on a CM-AV combo.....

Lots of in-transit traffic as well. Many Trinis now prefer travelling via PTY to their destinations in Latin America as a result of the almost effortless connections. PTY itself has an impressive variety of stores that won't leave someone wanting too much from a MIA layover.

I must also say, on my POS-PTY leg, there were two Bajans on board heading to Miami, but were stopping off in PTY for 36hrs to do business. This tells me that the EC pax may also be filtering into POS to connect with CM's PTY flights, thus making it a glodmine for CM.

Quoting A388 (Reply 36):
if Caribbean Airlines wants to develop Latin American markets, than they need to work on their connectivity through POS, yes. The problem here is like you also said yourself, CM is much bigger and much more powerful in these markets.

Very good point. The truth is, you don't need to have a large indigenous population to gain critical mass and build a hub. It just takes vision and proper strategy. POS is somewhat well placed to take advantage of Latin American traffic going North. However, the political will doesn't exist at the moment to transform POS into a proper in-transit hub. Even so, I like to think that there are windows of opportunity.

What BW could have done, CM beat them to it not only by their better geographic location, but also by their stable and visionary management that took advantage of the booming Panamanian economy. I would like to think that BW's window of opportunity of becoming a formidable indigenous carrier with very healthy in-transit traffic from South America has pretty much closed. CM managed their affairs cautiously over the last two decades, hence their current explosive double-digit expansion that has them on a somewhat level competitive footing with the likes of LATAM and AV.

I wish I can say BW can achieve heavy in-tranist Latin American traffic if they play their cards right, but I just don't see that window open again. CM has too much critical mass and too good at what they do for BW to enjoy high-yielding in-transit traffic. By the time BW get's its house in order in all departments in about 18 mths minimum, CM could well be expanding into further underserved markets and increasing capacity on their existing ones, giving BW little to choose.

Politics can spoil opportunities in a heart beat.



It is what we think we know already that prevents us from learning.......
User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2654 posts, RR: 1
Reply 45, posted (1 year 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 19353 times:

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 43):
Agreed, if you ever make it to SLZ I don't know if you made it there so far, Reggae and caribbean vibe is KING.

SLZ is quite an exotic undeserved market pretty much from everywhere except Northern Brazil.
From what it's know about it, São Luiz is a hidden gem.
'd be quite interesting to check SLZ-MIA/JFK traffic demand and if that Brazilan State/tCity government would settle for a "POS-hub" link if they're looking to make it easier to promote travel to/from SLZ.
A point that should be taken in consideration when talking about SLZ: a chunk of its traffic supposedly flies via BEL.

Quoting BW424 (Reply 44):
I wish I can say BW can achieve heavy in-tranist Latin American traffic if they play their cards right, but I just don't see that window open again. CM has too much critical mass and too good at what they do for BW to enjoy high-yielding in-transit traffic.

If POS has some oil-related traffic demand, then GIG might be a better point of entry into Brazil for BW than GRU thus making it a good place to draw some traffic.
However, SAO is such a powerful market, that if BW wants some "fare-concious" in-transit traffic between YYZ/JFK/MIA/CCS and deep South America, it shouldn't be neglected, regardless of GRU being an slot-restricted airport
Also worth checking: EZE - which B.T.W. is quite a profitable CM destination where CM can't just add any more frequencies right now.
GIG, GRU and EZE are all within BW B737-800 range. Not sure about the Trini-Brazil or Trini-Argentina bilateral but if BW is too concerned of the yields to South America, an EZE tag-on (w/5th liberty traffic) may work from both GIG and GRU.



I'm not on CM's payroll.
User currently offlineSpacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2948 posts, RR: 1
Reply 46, posted (1 year 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 19336 times:

I'll be heading down at the end of next month and I was wondering if NAS had any good spotting opportunities. Tried the search engine but, well, you know...


The last of the famous international playboys
User currently offlinecaribbean484 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Jan 2007, 2638 posts, RR: 2
Reply 47, posted (1 year 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 19332 times:

Quoting guyanam (Reply 42):
Like I said DL wanted to keep its monopoly on the JFK GEO nonstop route. Every argument that they can raise against BW (state subsidies, etc) does NOT apply to FJ. So the fact that they are blocking FJ suggests that their intention is to bring Guyana to its knees and force it to accept what ever terms DL dictates. As I previously stated, rumors exist that DL is still interested in this route, and most likely want to force Guyana into withdrawing flag carrier status from BW and forcing it back to running all its JFK bound flights via POS. And also getting various fee waivers as well.
Quoting guyanam (Reply 42):
Clearly the GEO market needs competition on the JFK GEO. Clearly DL wishes to do every thing that it can to prevent this.

In my view I find it quite disgusting of DL to put fort those kinds of arguments, and wanting to create a monopoly within a route, by force of Government intervention objections.

Removing the flag carrier status does nothing to the competing environment because, they will always be behind in service and fares. Their argument of "An aggressive interpretation approach to 5th freedom" is very insulting to say the least. CAL had those rights for decades grandfathered from BWIA, and has been using/used many of those rights for years. So they, if they had it their way want to stop CAL from flying the POS-GEO-JFK route?

IMO DL cannot compete with the likes of B6 or CAL from JFK to the Caribbean and it shows very well, in that they always cut routes then restart them with seasonality.
GND and ANU comes to mind; DL decided to go seasonal on the GND, they cut BGI-ATL, POS-ALT despite being the only players on the market, and when CAL entered the JFK-ANU service they went seasonal on that route too. CAL no longer operates the route so what is their excuse now?



All ah we is one family
User currently offlineGUYAIR707 From Guyana, joined Jan 2011, 708 posts, RR: 0
Reply 48, posted (1 year 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 19308 times:

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 41):
Guyana needs to get its act together and return to CAT1

A few years ago the GOG had consultants come in with a view to regaining Cat. 1 and they were told it would take a few years at least. I have not heard of anything being done since then to regain Cat. 1.

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 47):
I find it quite disgusting of DL

Yeah that happens when you are the big fish in the pond. I am still not sure why BW wants this as I don't think they will put any a/c in GEO. I assume they want the flexibility in the future or, as I suggested before maybe to block OJ.

GUYAIR707


User currently offline9YCAL From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Feb 2008, 175 posts, RR: 0
Reply 49, posted (1 year 18 hours ago) and read 19182 times:

Quoting GUYAIR707 (Reply 48):
I am still not sure why BW wants this as I don't think they will put any a/c in GEO. I assume they want the flexibility in the future or, as I suggested before maybe to block OJ.

One of the reasons they want it is to do POS/JFK - JFK/GEO/JFK - JFK/POS flights. They can better utilize aircraft and crew on the route.


User currently offlineGUYAIR707 From Guyana, joined Jan 2011, 708 posts, RR: 0
Reply 50, posted (1 year 17 hours ago) and read 19136 times:

Quoting 9YCAL (Reply 49):

Thanks, that clears it up.

GUYAIR707


User currently offlineGoAibusGo From Netherlands, joined Mar 2001, 275 posts, RR: 2
Reply 51, posted (12 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 18926 times:

About the DAE article published in the curacaochronicle mentioned earlier. Isn't this newspaper (online paper) owned by one of the DAE manager ? As A388 mentioned most if not all things mentioned in the article are not true. Oh well these managers had a good life sucking the company's funds dry and are now sore losers because it's over. Up to the next project.

Time to move on.

PS. sorry I reacted so late to this post, as I only read it today. Was busy working  


User currently offlineandrefranca From Brazil, joined May 2011, 622 posts, RR: 0
Reply 52, posted (12 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 18792 times:

Quoting GoAibusGo (Reply 51):

"klopt" we could figure it out! DAE had a very aggressive expansion plan, we were all asking ourselves until when they'd keep expanding, I just feel bad for the employees.


User currently offlineguyanam From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1411 posts, RR: 1
Reply 53, posted (12 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 18630 times:

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 43):

I assume that contact with the nearby Guyanas is responsible.

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 47):

What I find odd about DLs attack on BW is that they entered the JFK POS martket, basically as a scheduled charter carrier for Travelspan. Their fares were considerably lower than BWs. And yet they will now want to blame their departure from the POS market as "unfair" competition from a state owned carrier. Well how many state owned carriers do they not compete against on flights to Europe? I am sure that every one will be shocked to think that BW is this powerful entity (thanks to govt ownership) with the clout to bully DL.

The issue is pure bullyism. GEO is in a weird situation in that it has a different profile from the rest of South America (less high yield). It is further than most other Caribbean countries, and lacks a leisure sector. So is more exoensive to service.

It is also unknown to most Americans and as such I suspect that US airline execs do not know what to do with it. Is it a Caribbean destination, or is it South American? DL seizes on this opportunity and is attempting to bully GEO to forcing BW off the nonstops, knowing that GEO cannot leverage their behavior with an approcah to other US carriers as many other Caribbean countries can.. They enjoyed a sweet thing having the only nonstops to JFK from GEO and feel entitled to it. I will be interested in seeing DL attempting to bully the Jamaicxan govt that way pn their JFK MBJ routes.

This is why it is important for BW to get its act together and work with the authorities at Piarco to ensure that Guyanjese (and Surinamers) have a smooth intransit experience, equivalent to that offered by CM at PTY. If they work this out then maybe they can flesh out the hub by improving connectivity in certain underserved markets in eastern Venezuela and northern Brazil, all of which lack direct service to JFK and YYZ.

BTW BW also need sto up its promotion. Thanks to the US DOT rulling many Guyanese think that BW no longer offers nonstop service. Indeed this is due in part to the fact that the nonstops always book up, and so many are forced onto the flights with POS stops. So people think that these flights no longer exist.


User currently offlinetrintocan From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2000, 3240 posts, RR: 4
Reply 54, posted (12 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 18530 times:

It seems that there is some rumbling about air service to the Caribbean and GEO in particular. A few points.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 53):
Well how many state owned carriers do they not compete against on flights to Europe? I am sure that every one will be shocked to think that BW is this powerful entity (thanks to govt ownership) with the clout to bully DL.

Actually not many major European carriers are state-owned anymore, particularly in the EU / EEA. In any case, if one looks at DLK, they're closely tied with several EU majors such as KL, AF and AZ via SkyTeam.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 53):
The issue is pure bullyism. GEO is in a weird situation in that it has a different profile from the rest of South America (less high yield). It is further than most other Caribbean countries, and lacks a leisure sector. So is more exoensive to service.

It is also unknown to most Americans and as such I suspect that US airline execs do not know what to do with it. Is it a Caribbean destination, or is it South American?

Therein is the problem, you've hit the nail on the head. GEO simply does not "network" in a way many other Caribbean destinations do. Those islands with large tourist industries do "network" as visitors may fly in from other cities to JFK or MIA to go down, particularly if they are frequent flyers with the airline concerned. Also, note that the USA has little in the way of dedicated holiday airlines which Canada and Europe have; such holiday airlines tend to fly to many destinations from smaller origin points thereby bypassing hubs. This sort of pattern is largely absent from the USA market. The business destinations like POS, KIN and to an extent BGI also "network" well. As a result of this, GEO is very much a stand-alone route and while smaller airlines like NA were able to work it the majors would have had difficulty operating and marketing such a route. The strength of BW in all their forms in GEO, notwithstanding some very unfortunate problems and unsatisfactory treatment which some experienced also militated against US carriers setting up shop in GEO.

Ultimately the question that anyone pondering this issue should ask him/herself is, DL pulled out because it was not profitable. If they were to return to GEO, what would prevent them leaving again? BW are very much a local carrier and are less likely to withdraw - if they did, pragmatically, where would they go instead?

Trintocan.



Hop to it, fly for life!
User currently offlineguyanam From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1411 posts, RR: 1
Reply 55, posted (12 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 18503 times:

Quoting trintocan (Reply 54):

Neither BW nor GEO can survive without each other. Despite the frequent squabbles that the Guyana/Guyanese travelers and BW staff /management have with each other.


User currently offlineandrefranca From Brazil, joined May 2011, 622 posts, RR: 0
Reply 56, posted (12 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 18473 times:

Quoting guyanam (Reply 55):

Yes, the same way it will be a disaster to the surinamese if PY ever ceases it's services, CAY poor little, we can't even talk, at least AF is doing it's share to keep them connected.


User currently offlineBW424 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Sep 2008, 1435 posts, RR: 2
Reply 57, posted (12 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 18270 times:

"Emergency landing for AA flight from T&T"

"KINGSTON—Authorities in Turks & Caicos say an American Airlines (AA) plane yesterday made a safe emergency landing there after the pilot reported a fire in the cockpit and a smoking engine. The British Caribbean territory's disaster office says there were no injuries to the 175 people aboard the Boeing 757. Representatives of American Airlines did not immediately provide comment."

http://www.guardian.co.tt/news/2013-...-23/emergency-landing-aa-flight-tt

Glad to hear everything turned out okay.



It is what we think we know already that prevents us from learning.......
User currently offline817Dreamliiner From Montserrat, joined Jul 2008, 2472 posts, RR: 2
Reply 58, posted (12 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 18146 times:

Liat's 4th ATR 72-600, V2-LIH has been delivered today, It should arrive in ANU over the next couple days.


Reality be Rent. Synapse, break! Vanishment, This World!
User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6215 posts, RR: 2
Reply 59, posted (12 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 18109 times:

Quoting BW424 (Reply 57):
"Emergency landing for AA flight from T&T"

Was it 1818 Again? I am convinced that flight is jinxed.



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineBW424 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Sep 2008, 1435 posts, RR: 2
Reply 60, posted (12 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 18062 times:

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 59):
Was it 1818 Again? I am convinced that flight is jinxed.

LOL....1818 has been re-number 2282 outbound from POS. Anyway, I'm not certain weather it's the morning 2282 (formerly 1818) or the afternoon 1653.



It is what we think we know already that prevents us from learning.......
User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9891 posts, RR: 15
Reply 61, posted (12 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 18055 times:

Quoting BW424 (Reply 60):
LOL....1818 has been re-number 2282 outbound from POS. Anyway, I'm not certain weather it's the morning 2282 (formerly 1818) or the afternoon 1653.

Yes, AA has completely changed the flight numbers to/from CUR as well. I don't know what the reasoning behind these flight number changes is. In any case, they are doing pretty good on both daily flights to CUR.

A388


User currently offlineguyanam From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1411 posts, RR: 1
Reply 62, posted (12 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 17992 times:

Quoting BW424 (Reply 60):

Its the morning flight, which ever flight # it is. Very good loads too for a mid week flight at this time of the year.


User currently offlineBW424 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Sep 2008, 1435 posts, RR: 2
Reply 63, posted (12 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 17913 times:

Quoting BW424 (Reply 60):
I'm not certain weather

My apologies on the absolutely embarrassing use of the wrong word.......whether...that's what I get for posting while my attention is concentrated elsewhere.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 62):
Its the morning flight, which ever flight # it is. Very good loads too for a mid week flight at this time of the year.

Thank you for the confirmation. AA has good loads year round on both MIA flights out of POS. Got to remember that MIA is still a big connecting hub for POS with pax headed to the West Coast and even Europe.



It is what we think we know already that prevents us from learning.......
User currently offlineLimaFoxTango From Antigua and Barbuda, joined Jun 2004, 790 posts, RR: 2
Reply 64, posted (12 months 14 hours ago) and read 17728 times:

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 58):

Liat's 4th ATR 72-600, V2-LIH has been delivered today, It should arrive in ANU over the next couple days.


Blast Reality, Burst it into shreds! Banishment, This World!

Yup, landed in SLZ today. Should be in ANU tomorrow afternoon (25/10).



You are said to be a good pilot when your take-off's equal your landings.
User currently offlineguyanam From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1411 posts, RR: 1
Reply 65, posted (12 months 14 hours ago) and read 17703 times:

Quoting LimaFoxTango (Reply 64):

So how many ATRs does LI now have? And are they being allocated to specific routes, or just flying randomly? DO)M seems to be getting a lot of ATR service.


User currently offline817Dreamliiner From Montserrat, joined Jul 2008, 2472 posts, RR: 2
Reply 66, posted (12 months 14 hours ago) and read 17714 times:

Quoting guyanam (Reply 65):
So how many ATRs does LI now have?

They have 5 including the one just delivered:

4 ATR 72-600s
1 ATR 42-600

There's currently one ATR 42 listed on order at the moment and will probably be the next one delivered.



Reality be Rent. Synapse, break! Vanishment, This World!
User currently offlineandrefranca From Brazil, joined May 2011, 622 posts, RR: 0
Reply 67, posted (12 months 13 hours ago) and read 17676 times:

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 66):
They have 5 including the one just delivered:

4 ATR 72-600s
1 ATR 42-600

There's currently one ATR 42 listed on order at the moment and will probably be the next one delivered.

That was quick, seems it was yesterday they decided to get ATR'S or are we getting old too fast? LOL


User currently offline817Dreamliiner From Montserrat, joined Jul 2008, 2472 posts, RR: 2
Reply 68, posted (12 months 13 hours ago) and read 17672 times:

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 67):
That was quick, seems it was yesterday they decided to get ATR'S or are we getting old too fast? LOL

If I remember correctly, the order was signed early this year (probably around January I think) because I remember how shocked I was about the June delivery date.



Reality be Rent. Synapse, break! Vanishment, This World!
User currently offlineLimaFoxTango From Antigua and Barbuda, joined Jun 2004, 790 posts, RR: 2
Reply 69, posted (12 months 12 hours ago) and read 17655 times:

Quoting guyanam (Reply 65):
So how many ATRs does LI now have? And are they being allocated to specific routes, or just flying randomly? DO)M seems to be getting a lot of ATR service.

As stated above, 5 are now in the fleet with one more due in December. They are mostly sent "down south" ie south of ANU. In fact, every island between ANU and POS gets at least one daily ATR flight. It's also sent to CUR and SJU. The lone -42 is used "up north" operating 521/310/315/512 daily which is basically EIS/SXM/SKB/ANU and return. A few ad hoc flights were operated to SDQ and GEO. The -72 is currently unable to operate into OGL (paperwork issue, not field performance related).

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 68):
If I remember correctly, the order was signed early this year (probably around January I think) because I remember how shocked I was about the June delivery date.

Correct, but LI and ATR were in cohorts long before.



You are said to be a good pilot when your take-off's equal your landings.
User currently offlineguyanam From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1411 posts, RR: 1
Reply 70, posted (12 months 12 hours ago) and read 17650 times:

Quoting LimaFoxTango (Reply 69):

Hopefully the OGL problem is solved soon as the dash 8 isnt enough since the began service to that airport.

Have they stopped doing OGL?


User currently offlineLimaFoxTango From Antigua and Barbuda, joined Jun 2004, 790 posts, RR: 2
Reply 71, posted (12 months 12 hours ago) and read 17640 times:

Quoting guyanam (Reply 70):
Hopefully the OGL problem is solved soon as the dash 8 isnt enough since the began service to that airport.

Have they stopped doing OGL?

Oh no, OGL is doing quite well, even during off peak. In fact, during summer and coming up in December, LI adds an evening BGI-GEO and subsequent morning GEO-BGI flight. Ideally these flights should be operated to OGL, but logistical problems again prohibit that. Perhaps in the future.



You are said to be a good pilot when your take-off's equal your landings.
User currently offlineGUYAIR707 From Guyana, joined Jan 2011, 708 posts, RR: 0
Reply 72, posted (12 months 7 hours ago) and read 17572 times:

Quoting guyanam (Reply 70):
Quoting LimaFoxTango (Reply 71):

Glad to hear OGL is so much more convenient.

GUYAIR707


User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6215 posts, RR: 2
Reply 73, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 17478 times:

Quoting guyanam (Reply 62):
Its the morning flight, which ever flight # it is.

that would have been the old delay prone 1818.....leopard never changes his spots.



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineaa1818 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Feb 2006, 3435 posts, RR: 4
Reply 74, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 17454 times:

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 73):
that would have been the old delay prone 1818.....leopard never changes his spots.

I have probably taken that flight about 20 times in the past 4 years and I don't remember a single delay on it.
But I think I've been lucky over the years with flights!
Will be on the AA morning flight on Nov. 9th (AA2282).

AA1818



“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
User currently offlineandrefranca From Brazil, joined May 2011, 622 posts, RR: 0
Reply 75, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 17365 times:

Quoting aa1818 (Reply 74):

can't say the same  

on NK I had an aborted take off due to computer berserk in the middle of the runaway: Panic.
on AK a lady had a heart attack on board we had to land in the middle of alaska and wait on the tarmac for the ground crew to prepare a new flight plan etc...
on UA another aborted take off due to lightning we had to return to the gate.
on B6 air traffic controllers went on strike we had to return to the gate and had the flight cancelled.

After the second time I flew Air jamaica, it ceased ops
After the second time I flew dutch antilles express it ceased ops
After the second time I flew TACA they were taken by Avianca and disappeared


User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6215 posts, RR: 2
Reply 76, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 17352 times:

I flew it 8 times...problems / delays all 8 times. Ditto for my wife. She was on the one that had the nose wheel stuck in POS.

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 75):
After the second time I flew Air jamaica, it ceased ops
After the second time I flew dutch antilles express it ceased ops
After the second time I flew TACA they were taken by Avianca and disappeared

So I guess the rule is you should only fly airlines once.

Quoting aa1818 (Reply 74):
I have probably taken that flight about 20 times in the past 4 years and I don't remember a single delay on it.



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineguyanam From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1411 posts, RR: 1
Reply 77, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 17376 times:

Quoting LimaFoxTango (Reply 71):

OK. I was worried when you said that they sometimes use the ATR, but that it couldnt land at OGL, at least for the time being. OGL is a god send. I expect LI to start POS OGL, unless BW beats them to it, once their refleeting is completed.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 76):

Why is a flight which begiins its day with a fresh crew so consistently late?

I can see that being true of the afternoon flight, which might encounter delays as it arrives in MIA, from some other point, and then proceeds to POS, prior to its return flight to MIA. Either the plane or crew might be delayed in this case causing consistent late departures from POS.


User currently offline8b775zq From St. Kitts and Nevis, joined Aug 2005, 236 posts, RR: 0
Reply 78, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 17345 times:

Quoting LimaFoxTango (Reply 69):
As stated above, 5 are now in the fleet with one more due in December. They are mostly sent "down south" ie south of ANU. In fact, every island between ANU and POS gets at least one daily ATR flight. It's also sent to CUR and SJU. The lone -42 is used "up north" operating 521/310/315/512 daily which is basically EIS/SXM/SKB/ANU and return. A few ad hoc flights were operated to SDQ and GEO. The -72 is currently unable to operate into OGL (paperwork issue, not field performance related).

That's correct V2-LID has been passing thru SKB almost daily for the past 2-3wks. It seems odd though that the ATR's spend at least 30min or more on the ground whereas the 8's are in and out in about 15min time. I've also noticed the flights operated on the ATR arriving as much as 2hrs late. Why is this so?

[Edited 2013-10-25 17:29:11]

User currently offlineBW424 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Sep 2008, 1435 posts, RR: 2
Reply 79, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 17352 times:

Quoting LimaFoxTango (Reply 71):
Oh no, OGL is doing quite well, even during off peak. In fact, during summer and coming up in December, LI adds an evening BGI-GEO and subsequent morning GEO-BGI flight. Ideally these flights should be operated to OGL, but logistical problems again prohibit that. Perhaps in the future.

Yes, I've heard of the logistical problems. The ground service @ OGL is provided by indigenous and profitable bush-flying carrier TransGuyana. From my friends at TGA, they said the trial LI DHC8 flight was a mess in terms of their organization and flow. Even after LI started regularly scheduled flights there, TGA were still ironing out all the logistical issues as they never dealt with an aircraft with that many passengers in the past.

Currently, from what I'm hearing, TGA and OGL seem to be handling the daily flight well now.

[Edited 2013-10-25 18:14:00]


It is what we think we know already that prevents us from learning.......
User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9891 posts, RR: 15
Reply 80, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 17310 times:

Quoting 8b775zq (Reply 78):

8b775zq, the longer handling time and the longer delays probably have to do with the ATR being a totally new aircraft for LIAT and their handling agents. We also experience longer delays here in CUR of two hours or more at times. Over time all these things will be ironed out throughout the if network and everything will be running normally again. I expect one year for them to get a full grip on the ins and outs of the new ATR.

A388


User currently offlinecaribbean484 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Jan 2007, 2638 posts, RR: 2
Reply 81, posted (11 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 17229 times:

ArkeFly expands to Aruba, Bonaire and Curacao
ArkeFly will start flying to Curacao with the Boeing 787 Dreamliner in July of next year. This is according to a report from the company. With the advent of the new aircraft, the company also extends the number of seats available to the ABC islands.

The Dreamliner is manufactured by Boeing and is a more efficient plane than the Boeing 767-300 which is currently being used by the company. The Dreamliner is also equipped with more long-haul flights. Arkefly currently flies seven times a week in Curacao.
http://www.curacaochronicle.com/avia...ands-to-aruba-bonaire-and-curacao/

Bahamas airport completes overhaul
"After four years and $409 million spent, the renovation and expansion of Lynden Pindling Airport in Nassau, Bahamas, is finished.
With the final bolt in place, the ribbon was cut on Oct. 23 to open a 105,000-square-foot terminal for domestic flights and international departures.
A terminal for U.S. departures opened in March 2011, followed by an international arrivals terminal in October 2012."
http://www.travelweekly.com/Travel-N...ahamas-airport-completes-overhaul/



All ah we is one family
User currently offlineandrefranca From Brazil, joined May 2011, 622 posts, RR: 0
Reply 82, posted (11 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 17052 times:

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 81):
Bahamas airport completes overhaul
"After four years and $409 million spent, the renovation and expansion of Lynden Pindling Airport in Nassau, Bahamas, is finished.
With the final bolt in place, the ribbon was cut on Oct. 23 to open a 105,000-square-foot terminal for domestic flights and international departures.

New Airport   

Now I want to know when Air Bahamas will expand to the caribbean/central/south america? They seem to have the same Bajan behavior, "there's only market in the USA" (period).


User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6215 posts, RR: 2
Reply 83, posted (11 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 16983 times:

Quoting guyanam (Reply 77):
I can see that being true of the afternoon flight, which might encounter delays as it arrives in MIA, from some other point, and then proceeds to POS, prior to its return flight to MIA. Either the plane or crew might be delayed in this case causing consistent late departures from POS.

Its always been technical issues when I have had delays on it.....windshield wipers, engine refusing to start, blown fuse etc etc.

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 82):
New Airport   

It is very nice.



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offline817Dreamliiner From Montserrat, joined Jul 2008, 2472 posts, RR: 2
Reply 84, posted (11 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 16985 times:

So my mum just took a flight to BGI on one of Liat's new ATRs (V2-LIC). She enjoyed it and describe it as a real upgrade for Liat. Something positive for LI for once   


Reality be Rent. Synapse, break! Vanishment, This World!
User currently offlineandrefranca From Brazil, joined May 2011, 622 posts, RR: 0
Reply 85, posted (11 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 16929 times:

"Increased Tourists from Suriname and Brazil in CUR"

Quote:
WILLEMSTAD – The number of tourists, who in the first eight months of the year came to Curaçao, has increased by 13,000. This was announced the Curaçao Tourist Board (CTB). In total there were at that time nearly 290,000 tourists who came the island. They accounted for more than two million overnight stays.

However, there were a lot less tourists from Europe, but that loss was offset by an increase in the number of tourists from North and South America. They came mainly from Suriname and Brazil.

Source: http://www.curacaochronicle.com/tour...tourists-from-suriname-and-brazil/


User currently offlineLimaFoxTango From Antigua and Barbuda, joined Jun 2004, 790 posts, RR: 2
Reply 86, posted (11 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 16705 times:

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 84):

I think many would agree. From all Ive spoken to, have not heard one negative comment yet.

Quoting 8b775zq (Reply 78):

In all fairness, LI had 25+ years to perfect the Dash 8 turnouaround. ATR wise, It's taking a while for ground staff to become au fait with the aircraft. A little too long IMO. Turnaround times are upwards of 25 minutes, but are getting better in some stations.



You are said to be a good pilot when your take-off's equal your landings.
User currently offlineacws777 From Canada, joined Oct 2010, 95 posts, RR: 0
Reply 87, posted (11 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 16670 times:

Anyone know how Aruba Airlines is doing?

User currently offlineBW424 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Sep 2008, 1435 posts, RR: 2
Reply 88, posted (11 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 16521 times:

"AJW Aviation to Provide Power-by-the-hour Support for Caribbean Airlines' Fleet of 15 B737NGs"

"Miami, 29th October 2013: Caribbean Airlines has signed a second power-by-the-hour contract with AJW Aviation, the leading independent complete aircraft spares support specialist, to support its fleet of fifteen B737NGs. This new contract complements the existing five year PBH support that AJW currently provides for the airline’s two B767 aircraft, signed in November 2012.

Caribbean Airlines, the national airline for Trinidad and Tobago, began operations in January 2007 and acquired the routes operated by Air Jamaica in May 2011. It now serves sixteen markets in the Caribbean, South America and North America, operating a core schedule of 530 weekly departures with a total fleet of 21 aircraft and a headcount of more than 1,000."

http://www.aviationpros.com/press_re...bbean-airlines-fleet-of-15-b737ngs

Seems BW has switched from Boeing itself for its spare part inventory. I really do not know if this is a forward or backward step. For some reason, by gut says it is backward. Why switch from most likely the best inventory provider, the manufacturer? I know that cost comes into play, however, I do hope the same quality of service is provided.



It is what we think we know already that prevents us from learning.......
User currently offlineguyanam From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1411 posts, RR: 1
Reply 89, posted (11 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 16429 times:

Quoting BW424 (Reply 88):

Well 2014 is going to be a tough year for BW. In addition to not having the fuel subsidy they will face more intense competition on its FLL (into MBJ and POS) and JFK (into POS), from B6. Also FJ wil also provide competition on the YYZ KIN/GEO, assuming that the routes rights problem is resolved.


So concentrating suppliers in a cost effective manner might make sense. Apparently this company already handles the 767s.

One can only wonder what will happen on the FLL as BW reduced frequencies on that route, and will face even more intense competition on it next year.


User currently offlineBW424 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Sep 2008, 1435 posts, RR: 2
Reply 90, posted (11 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 16318 times:

Quoting guyanam (Reply 89):
Well 2014 is going to be a tough year for BW. In addition to not having the fuel subsidy they will face more intense competition on its FLL (into MBJ and POS) and JFK (into POS), from B6. Also FJ wil also provide competition on the KIN/GEO, assuming that the routes rights problem is resolved.

More competition is very good, especially from the more established B6 and the current WS. It will give BW more of an impetus to get their financial act together and have it stay together. People like to say that BW isn't accustomed to competition. Truth be told, what got them into their monopolized position back in 2010-2012 was as a result of the prudent management of 2007-2010. In 2007, BW had to contend with TravelSpan, Constellation Travel and DL on JFK; AC, TS and Zoom on AA on MIA when they increased frequencies to a sometimes 3x daily service to push the very young new BW out of the South Florida market. Oh, and we cannot forget NK with their super cheap red-eyes to FLL on a 3x weekly basis. Suffice to say, BW handled itself well, but that was as a result of proper management.

The two-year period of complete executive level chaos that followed has caused people to be very discontent with the carrier and rightfully so, because chaos at the top will always eventually trickle down to the operational aspects of the company. B6's "all in" entry in early 2014 will be some nice solid competition for BW and like WS, I do not see them leaving anytime soon.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 89):
So concentrating suppliers in a cost effective manner might make sense. Apparently this company already handles the 767s.

Then why they didn't go with Boeing for the 767 part solutions if they were already with them for the 738s? The 767 fleet is a fiasco...plain and simple. One of the 767s is in Ohio on heavy checks. This leaves just one in the operational fleet to do LGW and JFK rotations. What if it were to go tech? You see the problem it presents. I assume BW has contingency plans in place for the wet-leasing of a second widebody to cover such instances, but the reality remains, this is extra money being spent as a result of a very small sub fleet.

Quoting acws777 (Reply 87):
Anyone know how Aruba Airlines is doing?

Possibly our Dutch Caribbean friends can find an answer for you. The company is very young so I doubt anyone has any concrete info on their operations at this early stage.

[Edited 2013-10-30 22:05:39]


It is what we think we know already that prevents us from learning.......
User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9891 posts, RR: 15
Reply 91, posted (11 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 16236 times:

Quoting BW424 (Reply 90):
The two-year period of complete executive level chaos that followed has caused people to be very discontent with the carrier and rightfully so, because chaos at the top will always eventually trickle down to the operational aspects of the company. B6's "all in" entry in early 2014 will be some nice solid competition for BW and like WS, I do not see them leaving anytime soon.
Quoting BW424 (Reply 90):
The 767 fleet is a fiasco...plain and simple.

I really wish Caribbean Airlines well as they once were the most profitable and well-run airlines in the Caribbean back in 2007. They were an airline that was admired at the time in my opinion so I really hope they will bounce back and become that efficient airline they once were in 2007 and I say this with Caribbean Airlines keeping those widebody aircraft  
Quoting BW424 (Reply 90):
Possibly our Dutch Caribbean friends can find an answer for you. The company is very young so I doubt anyone has any concrete info on their operations at this early stage.

You are right my friend. I also don't know anything about this new airline other than that they started operation and their eventual plan is to fly to Brazil and the U.S. as well. They have two A320's if I remember correctly and they now fly to Venezuela and Panama. Whether they are profitable now I do not know and as you rightfully said, this airline still is in its early stage so I think it is too soon to say whether they are doing well or not. Most likely they are still running at a loss because they simply need time to have a smooth and efficiently running airline, both operationally and financially speaking. Any airline will have to go through this phase when just established. I am however happy to see them operate modern aircraft (A320) and I hope that one day Insel Air will also go in that direction. For now they are hooked on the MD80 as they will get another MD80 and a few Fokker 70's next year.

A388


User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9891 posts, RR: 15
Reply 92, posted (11 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 16209 times:

By the way guys, I don't think it was mentioned here yet and it surprises me a bit but the FIFA Worldcup/Coca Cola MD80 will or should be in POS today. That is one very nice looking aircraft. It will be in Curacao tomorrow so I'm very much looking forward to it.

If anyone takes pictures, please share them here with all of us 


Cheers,

A388


User currently offlineguyanam From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1411 posts, RR: 1
Reply 93, posted (11 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 16198 times:

Quoting BW424 (Reply 90):

While competition is good these markets are not growing. If BW had to cut its FLL POS to 4X and the FLL MBJ market isnt huge then how many passengers are there to share? B6 has an advantage of feed thru FLL so doesnt only have to rely on O&D business. Yes I know on the FLL MBJ NK is probably gone. I am curious about the FLL POS though.

I am not as concerned about the B6 entry into JFK as that route needs competition, with BW unable to cope with the peak loads. Also marketing pyschology suggests that if people fly BW because they WANT to (they can also fly B6) there wil be less resentment towards them than if they HAVE to (the current situation of offering the only direct service to JFK). There are enough passengers to share, especially as some probably use AA and might now shift over to B6.


User currently offlinecaribbean484 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Jan 2007, 2638 posts, RR: 2
Reply 94, posted (11 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 16174 times:

Quoting BW424 (Reply 88):
Seems BW has switched from Boeing itself for its spare part inventory. I really do not know if this is a forward or backward step. For some reason, by gut says it is backward. Why switch from most likely the best inventory provider, the manufacturer? I know that cost comes into play, however, I do hope the same quality of service is provided.

Not sure why this should be of a concern, AJW is one of the most respected supplier of parts logistics and MRO management around the world. They have over 800 clients which includes SQ, EK, QR, BA, LH nd many others. Actually in the same day Air New Zealand signed off on a similar agreement with them.
If they are offering the same solutions as Boeing (Which they have been doing for years) at a cheaper cost, any company would do the same.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 89):
Well 2014 is going to be a tough year for BW. In addition to not having the fuel subsidy they will face more intense competition on its FLL (into MBJ and POS) and JFK (into POS), from B6. Also FJ wil also provide competition on the YYZ KIN/GEO, assuming that the routes rights problem is resolved.

Not sure how tough it will be, CAL has been seeing significant improvement in finances this year thus far and loads are high along with higher yields. For instance the airline this summer has said to made US$13m and September the airline made a decent profit for a low period. Last year the airline lost US$7m during the same periods.

B6 feeds little transfer between FLL and the Caribbean, not until the new Terminal 4 is completed anyways, and their proposed schedule shows that they are looking at the O&D market.
FLL is no MIA and likely will not be because of the constraint area in which it is currently in. Broward county is not looking to make the kinds of investments MIA did to attract international traffic, which will drive up cost at the airport significantly.



All ah we is one family
User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9891 posts, RR: 15
Reply 95, posted (11 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 16152 times:

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 94):
Not sure how tough it will be, CAL has been seeing significant improvement in finances this year thus far and loads are high along with higher yields. For instance the airline this summer has said to made US$13m and September the airline made a decent profit for a low period. Last year the airline lost US$7m during the same periods.

I think what guyanam wants to say is that Caribbean Airlines will get affected once JetBlue starts their flights. In your above post you're talking about the current situation. I can also see that Caribbean Airlines feel the JetBlue presence once they have started, especially since JetBlue has a much better inflight product that works very well, even if you have to pay for a lot of things on board. You also pointed out the JetBlue is probably aiming at O&D traffic which again is what guyanam is also saying. If this market indeed will not grow much in the coming years, than Caribbean Airlines will definately feel the pain as there will be a new player in town now and a very big and strong one. The good thing is that Caribbean Airlines will have to work on their service and pricing in order to effectively compete with JetBlue, especially on the golden route to JFK that so far is Caribbean Airlines territory. To think that an airline like American Airlines has decreased its presence due to the large and aggressive expansion of JetBlue to the Caribbean (even before their codesharing), tells you enough on what type of animal Caribbean Airlines will be facing starting next year. Even so, I wish them both all the best and as I said before I hope Caribbean Airlines will one day again be that successful airline they were back in 2007 and with widebody aircraft 

A388


User currently offlineguyanam From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1411 posts, RR: 1
Reply 96, posted (11 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 16095 times:

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 94):

Remember that summer 2013 was an unusual year when BW had virtually no competition on the JFK GEO/POS routes. Come 2014 B6 enters and will be strong enough to have impact on yield, even if it doesnt on loads.

As to FLL. Remember that many West Indians who live there have strong ties to the NY area and use B6. B6 has emerged as the biggest carrier into KIN from FLL, will be into MBJ once they start. Given that BW has had to cut frequencies on the FLL POS to 4x, and will not keep the entire market to itself, it is indeed going to be interesting as to what will happen once this route has two carriers. FLL is more like JFK/YYZ, where most of the market is outbound to the caribbean rather than inbound from.

The pricing power that BW had in 2013 will not transfer over into 2014 because of increased competition with the entry of B6.

Quoting A388 (Reply 95):

Yes you got my point. .


User currently offlinecaribbean484 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Jan 2007, 2638 posts, RR: 2
Reply 97, posted (11 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 16030 times:

Quoting guyanam (Reply 96):
Remember that summer 2013 was an unusual year when BW had virtually no competition on the JFK GEO/POS routes. Come 2014 B6 enters and will be strong enough to have impact on yield, even if it doesnt on loads.

I know what you are saying, what I am saying is that the board of CAL is currently overseeing a significant number of cost cutting initiatives that have resulted in CAL becoming leaner and will continually improve the airline's bottom line. What you have not heard about is that the airline is actually putting plans in place for the competition. You have to also remember that CAL competes with BA, AA and WS and does fine with them there.
WS has not had any real effect on CAL and they are still commanding the higher fares on the route.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 96):
As to FLL. Remember that many West Indians who live there have strong ties to the NY area and use B6. B6 has emerged as the biggest carrier into KIN from FLL, will be into MBJ once they start. Given that BW has had to cut frequencies on the FLL POS to 4x, and will not keep the entire market to itself,

There is a reason why, FLL is not MIA in that yields to FLL are much lower than that of MIA. CAL's flights to FLL do not attract the business clients that MIA has so the airline is forced cut back flights into FLL. If you looked at MIA flights the airline's business class is always 90% loads.
CAL can basically leave MIA at 50% loads but once Y is 90% the flight breaks even. Economy is just added profits for them.

B6 is proposing their E190 to POS, not sure how that would work out but they also know the market from FLL is small.

JFK however is much larger O&D market for Trinidad and Tobago, there is where we will see if CAL will adapt or B6 face a true competitor.



All ah we is one family
User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6215 posts, RR: 2
Reply 98, posted (11 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 16018 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 92):

By the way guys, I don't think it was mentioned here yet and it surprises me a bit but the FIFA Worldcup/Coca Cola MD80 will or should be in POS today.

And in BZE next weekend!



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineBW424 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Sep 2008, 1435 posts, RR: 2
Reply 99, posted (11 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 15975 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 91):
I really wish Caribbean Airlines well as they once were the most profitable and well-run airlines in the Caribbean back in 2007. They were an airline that was admired at the time in my opinion so I really hope they will bounce back and become that efficient airline they once were in 2007 and I say this with Caribbean Airlines keeping those widebody aircraft

You got this very right. Since it is long gone now, I can say that the Bahamian Government did approach BW in late 2009/early 2010 to look at restructuring UP into a CAL subsidiary. I believe the Lok Jack board at that time said no (for the time being) because they had their hands full with jet fleet renewal plans and the JM acquisition.


Quoting guyanam (Reply 93):
While competition is good these markets are not growing.

I beg to differ. The amount of pax travelling between POS and JFK/MIA/YYZ has steadily increased over the last decade due to more trade and wealth. This past summer was a very good indication of that. BW was running on restricted capacity with up to 30 weekly flights into JFK from POS, 14x weekly into YYZ and dailies into MIA/FLL. Though these markets are mature, they still haven't seen their peaks yet.

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 94):
Not sure why this should be of a concern, AJW is one of the most respected supplier of parts logistics and MRO management around the world. They have over 800 clients which includes SQ, EK, QR, BA, LH nd many others. Actually in the same day Air New Zealand signed off on a similar agreement with them.
If they are offering the same solutions as Boeing (Which they have been doing for years) at a cheaper cost, any company would do the same.

I stand corrected. Thanks for the enlightenment on AJW and their reputation.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 96):
The pricing power that BW had in 2013 will not transfer over into 2014

The pricing power BW had in summer 2013 wasn't due to them not wanting to add capacity. Because the Moonan board was fired and the mandate of the new board was to do a comprehensive financial diagnostic, they put a hold on all plans regarding routes and increasing frequencies until they completed their report. Hence, BW was inevitably capacity restricted to the detriment of of the travelling public.



It is what we think we know already that prevents us from learning.......
User currently offlineguyanam From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1411 posts, RR: 1
Reply 100, posted (11 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 15899 times:

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 97):

Thanks for your response. B6 with an E190 will be a less formidable competitor than with the 320. There will most certainly be baggage problems and some might prefer the 738 over the e-190. Any case BW will defeinitely benefit frrom its more liberal baggage policies which B6 will not be able to offer.

It is possible that some FLL originating/destined passengers who refuse to use BW (for what ever reason, using AA instead) might shift to B6.


I am quite sure that BW will do fine on the JFK and that B6 will be a plus as passengers will feel that they have choice. It will get BW on their toes. FINALLY they will have to upgrade their JFK ground operations, even if it means replacing their subcontractors. But the market is large and there is that quota of people in the NYC area who are "Trini to d bone," and will always use the national carrier, once it provides decent fares and service.

Quoting BW424 (Reply 99):

Unless 2011/13 are very different from prior years T&T tourism arrival stats will suggest that the growth was between 1995 and 2008, and has been fairly flat since. With only negligable growth, out of the USA, and with Canada and the UK down. I know that the UK situation impacts TAB more than POS.

I cant imagine that travel to the USA by T&T citizens has increased much since 2008 as visas have become more expensive and scrutiny more intense, and the economy has been stagnant in recent years. The VFR market out of JFK is definitely impacted by the Great Recession as the Caribbean and other lower middle class communities have suffered severe set backs.


Yes I am aware that a decision was made not to wet lease the 767 in summer 2013 for the 500/501, so even though DLs daily 757 service GEO JFK was not operating, as it was in prior summers, BW offered FEWER seats than it did in prior years. The result was that passengers traveling JFK POS/GEO had to pay very high airfares last summer as there was a severe shortage of seats.

With TS back in the market and B6 arriving in time for carnival 2014 will be very different, and fares iwll return to normal. I consider this to be a good thing as passengers and the travel industry will stop seeing BW as being abusive.

Let us hope that BW is able to cut costs without cutting service standards, are creating a severely demoralized crew who will take it out on the passengers.


User currently offlinebeeweel15 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1766 posts, RR: 0
Reply 101, posted (11 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 15855 times:

BW will hold its own I am certain against Jetblue once a good management team is in place

User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9891 posts, RR: 15
Reply 102, posted (11 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 15881 times:

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 98):
Quoting A388 (Reply 92):

By the way guys, I don't think it was mentioned here yet and it surprises me a bit but the FIFA Worldcup/Coca Cola MD80 will or should be in POS today.

And in BZE next weekend!

Yes, I took a few nice photos of the aircraft here in CUR this morning. I even got the opportunity to go inside and take some pictures of the cabin. A unique experience!!!

Quoting BW424 (Reply 99):
Quoting A388 (Reply 91):
I really wish Caribbean Airlines well as they once were the most profitable and well-run airlines in the Caribbean back in 2007. They were an airline that was admired at the time in my opinion so I really hope they will bounce back and become that efficient airline they once were in 2007 and I say this with Caribbean Airlines keeping those widebody aircraft

You got this very right. Since it is long gone now, I can say that the Bahamian Government did approach BW in late 2009/early 2010 to look at restructuring UP into a CAL subsidiary. I believe the Lok Jack board at that time said no (for the time being) because they had their hands full with jet fleet renewal plans and the JM acquisition.

Yes, I hope Caribbean Airlines will return to its glory days just as in 2007 

A388


User currently offlinecaribbean484 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Jan 2007, 2638 posts, RR: 2
Reply 103, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 15585 times:

Hey A388 some guys in POS took some photos of the World cup aircraft








All ah we is one family
User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9891 posts, RR: 15
Reply 104, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 15474 times:

Thanks for the photos Caribbean484!!! I took a few nice photos as well. You can see the first batch on the planepictures site.


I thought I'd share this old photo with you guys as it is of an aircraft and airline that no longer fly:



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Roger Cannegieter - Curacao Aviation Photography




Memories, memories, memories 

A388


User currently offline817Dreamliiner From Montserrat, joined Jul 2008, 2472 posts, RR: 2
Reply 105, posted (11 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 15046 times:

Heads up for anyone in BGI, your getting not 1, but 2 787s. Both G-TUID ( BY116, MAN-BGI) and G-TUIA (BY34, LGW-BGI) are currently enroute


Reality be Rent. Synapse, break! Vanishment, This World!
User currently offlinewindian425 From Barbados, joined Dec 2006, 166 posts, RR: 0
Reply 106, posted (11 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 15070 times:

FIRST THOMSON 787 DREAMLINER TOUCHES DOWN AT BRIDGETOWN, BARBADOS

8th November, 2013: Thomson Airways today celebrates the arrival of its first 787 Dreamliner flight, it’s most popular aircraft, in to Bridgetown, Barbados.

Thomson Airways operated flight TOM034 on this revolutionary new aircraft, from the UK’s London Gatwick Airport. It departed at 09:50 (GMT) with (NUMBER) customers on board and touched down in here in Barbados for the first time (NUMBER) hours later.

The 787 Dreamliner has revolutionised air travel, leaving holidaymakers more relaxed and refreshed after a long flight than ever before. The plane offers comfort and wellbeing features on-board which reduce the effects of jet-lag and turbulence meaning holidays get off to an even better start. As well as being more comfortable, it’s also more environmentally friendly than similar-sized aircraft using approximately 20% less fuel.

Customer Satisfaction Questionnaires (CSQ), which are collected on the return journey of a customer’s holiday to gather feedback on the flight and holiday experience, show that 97% of all respondents rated their experience on board the Thomson Dreamliner as good or excellent, and a massive 99% would recommend the airline after travelling on the new plane.

The Thomson 787 Dreamliner carries 291 passengers. Premium Club seats 47 in a 2-3-2 configuration, with a 38” pitch, and Economy Club seats 244 in a 3-3-3 configuration, with an industry leading 33” or 34” pitch.

Today’s flight was operated by Captain Wayne Bayley, who said: “I am thrilled to have been asked to operate today’s flight into Barbados. The island means a lot to me, as my family is from here, so it is an honour to bring the first Thomson 787 Dreamliner here today.”

Thomson Airways will take delivery of eight Boeing 787 Dreamliners in total up to May 2015.


User currently offlineb757lvr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 69 posts, RR: 0
Reply 107, posted (11 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 15014 times:

Quoting windian425 (Reply 106):

Excellent, hope we can get some pics from BGI of these aircraft.


User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9891 posts, RR: 15
Reply 108, posted (11 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 14979 times:

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 105):
Heads up for anyone in BGI, your getting not 1, but 2 787s. Both G-TUID ( BY116, MAN-BGI) and G-TUIA (BY34, LGW-BGI) are currently enroute

I wish I was in BGI now and in December when B6 will start A321 service to BGI so we would have the BY 787 and the B6 321 in BGI. Great!!! Or is this BY 787 of today a one-off thing? I assume it isn't...

A388


User currently offlinewindian425 From Barbados, joined Dec 2006, 166 posts, RR: 0
Reply 109, posted (11 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 14780 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 108):
I wish I was in BGI now and in December when B6 will start A321 service to BGI so we would have the BY 787 and the B6 321 in BGI. Great!!! Or is this BY 787 of today a one-off thing? I assume it isn't...

BY will operate the 787's every weekend from now until April 2014. Initially x2 on Fridays x1 on Saturdays another x2 will operate on Sundays from December.


User currently offlineBW424 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Sep 2008, 1435 posts, RR: 2
Reply 110, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 14565 times:

Quoting windian425 (Reply 106):
FIRST THOMSON 787 DREAMLINER TOUCHES DOWN AT BRIDGETOWN, BARBADOS

Awesome developments for BGI. BGI really seems to be the island of exclusivity when it comes to seeing what's hot and trending in aviation. They received the B787 and B747-8 for Boeing's humidity testing, now BY's scheduled multiple 787 services on select days and as A388 mentioned, B6's very very exclusive A321s.


In other news

"Howai wants CAL changes
...urges board to tweak restructuring"

:Finance Minister Larry Howai has sent the Caribbean Airlines board of directors back to the drawing board to tweak some of their propositions on how to restructure the debt-riddled State enterprise and make it commercially viable.
“In the proposal they gave me I thought there were further changes, for example, there were some routes that were kept, (because the board assumed) I would want to keep them. The point is I want them to be commercially viable, so if they can take out these routes and (we can) see what the implications are from an economic and commercial perspective,” he said."

http://www.trinidadexpress.com/busin...i-wants-CAL-changes-231224541.html


I always had immense respect for this guy since his FCB days, however, it's growing more and more with his recent dealings on the CAL issue. Seems as though the board may be trying to balance saving political face and achieving financial viability at BW, which by all apparent indications, Howai seems a bit dissatisfied.

Mentioning "some routes that were kept, (because the board assumed) I would want to keep them" blatantly indicates that Howai may want a return to the Lok Jack model...no political routes, just market-driven ones........I cannot identify any route besides LGW that he may want axed for improved financial viability. The only other route may be POS-TAB-JFK, but that may be kept to appease TAB's tourism officials, especially since it doesn't present itself as a financial drain to BW and it's usually filled with POS based pax anyway. One other route may be the KIN-MBJ shuttle service. That was never part of the original route structure Lok Jack wanted to in BW's KIN base. In a nutshell, I strongly believe that Howai is alluding to the board possibly keeping the LGW route against the true business interest of the company.

[Edited 2013-11-10 12:55:56]


It is what we think we know already that prevents us from learning.......
User currently offlineBW424 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Sep 2008, 1435 posts, RR: 2
Reply 111, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 14442 times:

Video of both BY 787s arriving into BGI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A_t2XFKZd8



It is what we think we know already that prevents us from learning.......
User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9891 posts, RR: 15
Reply 112, posted (11 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 14350 times:

Excellent video BW424!!! Does anyone here know if BY is planning to fly to AUA using the 787? Would be great!!!

Cheers,

A388


User currently offlineguyanam From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1411 posts, RR: 1
Reply 113, posted (11 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 14240 times:

Quoting BW424 (Reply 110):

Is LGW still a loss maker for BW?


User currently offlineInbound From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Sep 2001, 851 posts, RR: 2
Reply 114, posted (11 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 14155 times:

Quoting guyanam (Reply 113):
Is LGW still a loss maker for BW?

Good question Guyanam. The load factor has been averaging approximately 70-80%. Apart from a few delays recently, they've managed to sustain the route with just one aircraft over the last couple months. In that time, they've also secured ETOPS 138 which allowed as low as 7:55 flight time POS-LGW. The lower fuel consumption could contribute to some effective savings. The 767 fleet should be back to two airplanes within a week, in time for a busy Christmas season.



Maintain own separation with terrain!
User currently offlineBW424 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Sep 2008, 1435 posts, RR: 2
Reply 115, posted (11 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 14111 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 112):
Excellent video BW424!!!

I'm glad you liked it! The BGI enthusiasts did a great job in capturing the moments.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 113):
Is LGW still a loss maker for BW?

Yes it is........



It is what we think we know already that prevents us from learning.......
User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9891 posts, RR: 15
Reply 116, posted (11 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 14053 times:

Quoting BW424 (Reply 115):
Quoting guyanam (Reply 113):
Is LGW still a loss maker for BW?

Yes it is........

Generally a new route needs 3 to 5 years (but in most cases 5 years) to become self sustaining so Caribbean Airlines still has a lot of time to make the route work for them. The only question is whether they have the money available to cover the cost/loss of the route during its climd towards self sustainability.

A388


User currently offlinecaribbean484 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Jan 2007, 2638 posts, RR: 2
Reply 117, posted (11 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 13991 times:

Quoting guyanam (Reply 113):
Is LGW still a loss maker for BW?
Quoting A388 (Reply 116):
Generally a new route needs 3 to 5 years (but in most cases 5 years) to become self sustaining so Caribbean Airlines still has a lot of time to make the route work for them. The only question is whether they have the money available to cover the cost/loss of the route during its climd towards self sustainability.

Yes it is losing money because as Inbound noted the airline has ETOPS 120mins plus 15% extension for the time being. To efficiently run Transatlantic CAL needs 180mins and will not be getting that until next year. So in effect the airline is spending more money on fuel on this route than it should because it routes the flight all the way up to ANU straight further away from the Azores.

Plus the airline also has 2 a/cs for this operation when they have been recommended to take on a third, thereby the airline, if taking this, will have to return a 737 or expand more South Ward.

But as noted the airline has generated US$20m this year so far so they do not have a cash flow problem and the board has said they are in negotiation for US$100m cash from some of their assets. Plus the Government is giving them TT$450m to cover debt caused by operational problems over the last 3 years.

On another note CAL has applied to the INAC for the 737 to run daily services to CCS.



All ah we is one family
User currently offlineAA1818 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Feb 2006, 3435 posts, RR: 4
Reply 118, posted (11 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 13982 times:

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 117):
On another note CAL has applied to the INAC for the 737 to run daily services to CCS.

That's excellent news- hopefully it gets approved.
I flew AA POS-MIA-POS on the 9th-10th November and there were 6 Venezuelan businessmen- one who was sitting next to me. He said they fly to POS to do business for a day or two and then fly onto Miami. POS is becoming more than just a transit stop for Venezuelans! There used to be a lot of lower-yielding traffic in the form of Students and Shoppers, glad to see this route mature to include VFR and Business traffic.
I hope the ATR can be deployed on another Veneuzuelan/ South American Route. Would love to see that freed-up ATR run a POS-OGL 4x and a POS-MAR 3x.

AA1818



“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
User currently offlineInbound From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Sep 2001, 851 posts, RR: 2
Reply 119, posted (11 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 13954 times:

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 117):
Yes it is losing money because as Inbound noted the airline has ETOPS 120mins plus 15% extension for the time being. To efficiently run Transatlantic CAL needs 180mins and will not be getting that until next year. So in effect the airline is spending more money on fuel on this route than it should because it routes the flight all the way up to ANU straight further away from the Azores.

Correct 484. ETOPS 180mins can only be acquired after a minimum of one year of operating as ETOPS 120mins. The fact that ETOPS 138mins has been granted, is a good sign for the eventual approval of 180 in possibly January '14.
As a matter of fact, crews, engineering etc. have recently been trained and certified for 180 in anticipation.

I forgot to mention that cargo has also been performing quite well on this route.

A388, you are also correct as the route was forecast to break even after 3 years.



Maintain own separation with terrain!
User currently offlineBW424 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Sep 2008, 1435 posts, RR: 2
Reply 120, posted (11 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 13876 times:

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 118):
I hope the ATR can be deployed on another Veneuzuelan/ South American Route. Would love to see that freed-up ATR run a POS-OGL 4x and a POS-MAR 3x.

IMO, OGL, MAR and VLN are long overdue as solid opportunities for high-yielding growth. As for POS as a hub, yes, more and more South Americans are transiting through POS, however, infrastructure as we all know, is severely lacking in order to fully capitalize on the growing in-transit segment. Government policy must also play an integral role in buttressing this forever talked about hub potential.

Quoting A388 (Reply 116):
Generally a new route needs 3 to 5 years (but in most cases 5 years) to become self sustaining so Caribbean Airlines still has a lot of time to make the route work for them. The only question is whether they have the money available to cover the cost/loss of the route during its climd towards self sustainability.

Yes, that is a widely understood fact for routes with immense growth potential over the long-term. LGW is not one of them. My apologies to everyone for being the sour lemon, but LGW was never started with any strategic or sustained growth foreseen. It was purely a political route that was started at all possible expense to the airline and most local folks still do not realize the magnitude of the negative effect this ill-concieved initiative had on the carrier. Here is what this LGW route caused;

It indirectly caused BW's impressive cash balance to be wiped out (failure to secure long-term financing for ATRs).
Created a crap-load of debt to what was a debt-free airline (acquiring appropriate a/c, wet-leasing and starting the route).
Severely diverted attention away from properly integrating KIN ops and treating with various teething operational issues. Caused diplomatic relations between POS and KIN to be strained as a result of the board and GORTT's very low-class style governance.

All this because some "brilliant" board directors decided to say "f**k everything else, this LGW route has to start no matter what the expense and no matter who we have to fire". I like to refer to what occurred has a serious case of the "big plane" syndrome.

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 117):
thereby the airline, if taking this, will have to return a 737 or expand more South Ward.

Key phrase here being "if taking this"..........with Howai sending the interim BoD back to tweak some things, this option may very well be dead. Time will tell.

Quoting Inbound (Reply 119):
I forgot to mention that cargo has also been performing quite well on this route.
Quoting Inbound (Reply 114):
In that time, they've also secured ETOPS 138 which allowed as low as 7:55 flight time POS-LGW.

These small victories in efficiency definitely help to alleviate the losses being sustained, but it will certainly not justify the route to be kept unless there is a proven forecast of expected sustained profitability and GROWTH in traffic and yield over the medium to long term. However, it is great to know that BW is doing everything possible to try and make the route as efficient as possible.



It is what we think we know already that prevents us from learning.......
User currently offlineAA1818 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Feb 2006, 3435 posts, RR: 4
Reply 121, posted (11 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 13770 times:

Quoting BW424 (Reply 120):
infrastructure as we all know, is severely lacking

I disagree..the infrastructure is there...it just needs to be put to better use.
Security checkpoints need to be more efficient for the morning rush, immigration and customs can be improved- more officers are all that is needed. Apart from those changes, transit rules need to be improved but that doesn't really require any significant change...passengers transiting could clear immigration and then they're in duty free and can go back up the escalator to the departure lounge. They already have a plan to move domestic departures to a whole new terminal to the east of the existing structure. Expanded car park is also in train, as is a new hotel- the Radisson.

Quoting BW424 (Reply 120):
with Howai sending the interim BoD back to tweak some things, this option may very well be dead.

Howai's move is clear. BW must be a commercially viable entity. The interim board kept certain loss-making routes that Howai is now saying go back and re-look, nothing is beyond the realm of the cuts.

AA1818



“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
User currently offlineBW424 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Sep 2008, 1435 posts, RR: 2
Reply 122, posted (11 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 13703 times:

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 121):
I disagree..the infrastructure is there...it just needs to be put to better use.
Security checkpoints need to be more efficient for the morning rush, immigration and customs can be improved- more officers are all that is needed. Apart from those changes, transit rules need to be improved but that doesn't really require any significant change...passengers transiting could clear immigration and then they're in duty free and can go back up the escalator to the departure lounge. They already have a plan to move domestic departures to a whole new terminal to the east of the existing structure. Expanded car park is also in train, as is a new hotel- the Radisson.

We can agree to disagree I guess. What you have suggested are ways in which airport processes and available resources (as limited as they may be) can be improved to do its best at handling in-transit traffic, however, the infrastructure is still severely lacking to really capitalize on this. I've been regularly told; the persons that designed this POS terminal didn't envision POS as an in-transit hub.

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 121):
Howai's move is clear. BW must be a commercially viable entity. The interim board kept certain loss-making routes that Howai is now saying go back and re-look, nothing is beyond the realm of the cuts.

Did I suggest otherwise??? I'm sorry if I did.



It is what we think we know already that prevents us from learning.......
User currently offlineguyanam From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1411 posts, RR: 1
Reply 123, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 13593 times:

Quoting Inbound (Reply 114):

My understanding was that the Lok Jack team planned to start LGW. Just not as soon as the new management team did. If they drop LGW then they might as well scratch any plans to resume that service as they will loose all credibility in the market. If LGW is a money bleeder now I cannot imagine a future scenario when it wouldnt be, as this is clearly not a growth route. One thing is for sure, and that is that there is a certain level of GUARANTEED trafiic between LGW and POS, with potential for onward connections to GEO and CCS. It is an ESTABLISHED route, and not a speculative one as some of those suggested are.

Quoting BW424 (Reply 120):

While I agree with you that LGW is not a growth route I am curious to hear from you as to which routes are.

I am skeptical about Venezuela, given restrictions on accessing revenues generating in that country for general operational use. I have noted that, despite the heavy traffic between Venezuela and CUR, Insel has not replaced the capacity lost due to the demise of DAE. So why are some so sure that Venezuela (other than the existing and under served CCS route, and points in eastern Venezuela) offers growth.

POS is too far east to become a major transit hub for most of Venezuela. Indeed what I noted with the example given is that the 6 Venezuelan business men flew BW to POS, but continued on to MIA on AA. They could have easily done so on BW, but didnt. Is BW really capable of increasing brand loyalty into that very AA dominated market?

Roputes to points south of POS are speculative. If LGW is "wrong" I do not see how GRU, BUE or other points will not also be. given that there is little O&D traffic and the notion that people will use POS as a hub is very speculative. One cannot build a hub based on transfering a mere 6 passengers.

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 121):

Until POS becomes as easy to intransit as PTY is POS is not competitive. BW and the T&T govt needs to fix this if they want to build a major hub there. The niggest inransit users, Guyanese, have had very negative experiences there.


User currently offlineAA1818 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Feb 2006, 3435 posts, RR: 4
Reply 124, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 13567 times:

Quoting BW424 (Reply 122):

Did I suggest otherwise??? I'm sorry if I did.

No, no...I was just reiterating the sentiment!  
Quoting BW424 (Reply 122):
We can agree to disagree I guess. What you have suggested are ways in which airport processes and available resources (as limited as they may be) can be improved to do its best at handling in-transit traffic, however, the infrastructure is still severely lacking to really capitalize on this. I've been regularly told; the persons that designed this POS terminal didn't envision POS as an in-transit hub.

Where specifically so you see the actual infrastructure lacking- i'm interested, perhaps there are issues i'm missing. Otherwise we have to agree to disagree. hehe

AA1818



“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
User currently offlineBW985 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Nov 2007, 119 posts, RR: 0
Reply 125, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 13515 times:

Quoting BW424 (Reply 115):
Quoting guyanam (Reply 113):Is LGW still a loss maker for BW?
Yes it is........

I disagree with BW424 in this case. We all agree that the way the LGW route was not started under the best circumstances. But now that the money was spent on obtaining the aircraft and the ETOPS certificates, they should look at how they can operate this route profitably instead of giving it up.

I may be biased living in London, but I am sure there is potential for growth on this route. BA pretended not to be interested in serving POS back in 2007 when they started route with 3 weekly flights, but by 2012 they were operating the route daily. (With the arrival of BW on the route they have since reduced their frequency to 4 x a week.)

A 80% load factor shows that there must be demand, althouth the load factor alone does not say anything about the yield and profit. BW will have to try to attract the business passengers who are mostly flying BA at the moment. At the moment BW's London flights only serve POS and GEO, but once better connections out of POS are available to places like GND, SVD, KIN, CCS etc demand for this flight could a lot higher.

It will be interesting to see how much the loss (if any) on the LGW route will be in 2014 once BW has fully established itself in the UK market and the ETOPS 180' is in place. I doubt that the figure will be any higher than the amount of money the GORTT spends on subsidies for BA, Virgin and Monarch to fly to TAB.

I agree that the board and especially the former chairman have made lots of mistake managing BW, but I do not believe that the problems at the KIN base can be blamed on the opening of the LGW route.

Quoting BW424 (Reply 122):
Quoting AA1818 (Reply 121):I disagree..the infrastructure is there...it just needs to be put to better use.
Security checkpoints need to be more efficient for the morning rush, immigration and customs can be improved- more officers are all that is needed. Apart from those changes, transit rules need to be improved but that doesn't really require any significant change...passengers transiting could clear immigration and then they're in duty free and can go back up the escalator to the departure lounge. They already have a plan to move domestic departures to a whole new terminal to the east of the existing structure. Expanded car park is also in train, as is a new hotel- the Radisson.
We can agree to disagree I guess. What you have suggested are ways in which airport processes and available resources (as limited as they may be) can be improved to do its best at handling in-transit traffic, however, the infrastructure is still severely lacking to really capitalize on this. I've been regularly told; the persons that designed this POS terminal didn't envision POS as an in-transit hub.


I think the immigration booths should be moved to where the music shop is, just before you get to the baggage claim area. This would allow in-transit passengers to visit the duty free shops and let them go to their departure gate in their own time, rather than having to queue up to use only 1 lift. The airport could profit from more money spent in the shops, while at the same time offering more convenience. This new Piarco airport was only built a few years ago and not only is it not suitable at handling in-transit passengers, the check-in and arrivals areas are already too small.

BW985


User currently offlineguyanam From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1411 posts, RR: 1
Reply 126, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 13508 times:

Quoting BW985 (Reply 125):

My point exactly about LGW. True the route was started before it should have been, and detrected attention, especially from KIN, and incurred heavy losses. But that money has already been spent and BW already has become a presence in the market.

Now if the route is unprofitable, and there is nothing that can be done about it...basically admitting that BW cannot compete with BA, despite running nonstop service, then cut it. Biut do so knowing that there will be no future point when this route can be re-started.

And in my opinion if BW cannot compete on LGW, which is an established route, then they have no business doing anything other than remaining on the MIA/FLL/MCO/JFK/YYZ routes, and improving connectivity between CCS and other parts of its network. If LGW cant cut it, then no non traditional route will offer more opportunities. Starting new long distance Latin routes, hoping that BW will get intransit business, seems to make a lot less sense than building its market share on the LGW.

New routes to eastern Venezuela should be explored. POS is nearby and might be more convenient than CCS. Indeed I see no reason why T&T doesnt exploit its proximity in a variety of arenas, given how remote and disorganized the CCS based govt is. Further the routes are low risk as they are short distance and, if they get 737 service to POS, the ATR can be re routed there. Only the informal ferry operators will suffer.

POS is a disaster for massive numbers of intransits. Especially when compared to PTY, which is much favored by latin travelers. Thats a fact based upon customer complaints. If Guyanes, who are minimally different from TRinis, have problems at POS, imagine Brazilians and Argentines rushing to make a connection. BW is not going to get the premium end of the market, as they are loyal to the various freqent flyer programs. So those who they do get will be less fluent in English, and as you know, not too many airport personnel at POS speak Spanish or Portuguese well.


User currently offlinecaribbean484 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Jan 2007, 2638 posts, RR: 2
Reply 127, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 13491 times:

Quoting BW985 (Reply 125):
I disagree with BW424 in this case. We all agree that the way the LGW route was not started under the best circumstances. But now that the money was spent on obtaining the aircraft and the ETOPS certificates, they should look at how they can operate this route profitably instead of giving it up.

BW424 has a lot of good points, but the problem now is that the route already has sunken costs associated with it so it is in the best interest of CAL to make this route operationally viable. The market between the UK and POS has seen 20% growth over the last 3 years due to the energy industry.
We all know that CAL made a mess out of the whole thing and has paid for it dearly last year since 50% of the loses incurred came from its transatlantic operations, which is wet leasing and ETOPS certifications.

As I mentioned the reason the route is losing money is the routing the airline is taking right now to a more Northerly routing adding an hour more of flying thus more fuel burn.

Load factors are not an issue since the airline is averaging 81% pax for the year thus far, the problem I see is that Howai telling the board to find new efficiencies to improve the route and the situation of the 3 fleet type at CAL. Having two widebodies just for transatlantic operations is very inefficient, but the 767 is much better than the 777 that Nicolas was talking about, or the A340 BWIA had.

Quoting BW985 (Reply 125):
I agree that the board and especially the former chairman have made lots of mistake managing BW, but I do not believe that the problems at the KIN base can be blamed on the opening of the LGW route.

  

Quoting guyanam (Reply 123):
POS is too far east to become a major transit hub for most of Venezuela. Indeed what I noted with the example given is that the 6 Venezuelan business men flew BW to POS, but continued on to MIA on AA. They could have easily done so on BW, but didnt. Is BW really capable of increasing brand loyalty into that very AA dominated market?

That is a point but also PTY is to far west also from Venezuela. Venezuela is in the nothern center of South American, so POS and PTY are at its extremes. The reason for going larger is because Venezuelans are finding a cheaper alternative to fly to the US and Trinidad is seen as another alternative.

We have to also consider that the US airlines are restricted in adding any capacity in Venezuela so CAL has an opportunity, Like COPA to take more pax. The problem is the INAC and their policies that are hurting airlines with not releasing revenues to the carriers in an ample time frame.



All ah we is one family
User currently offlineGUYAIR707 From Guyana, joined Jan 2011, 708 posts, RR: 0
Reply 128, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 13454 times:

Flew JFK-GEO BW529 on 11/11 and I am happy to say the IFE was updated with the current movies in Caribbean Beat (however they showed the northbound movie). There were no improvements to the food though. Service was good, but the a/c was not full, so not quite as demanding on the FA's as my last flight. Equipment was 763 9Y-LGW. When we arrived in GEO we landed 20 minutes after the captain told us, he was circling quite a bit, didn't know if it was the weather as it was overcast, but he never told us why.

GUYAIR707


User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9891 posts, RR: 15
Reply 129, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 13307 times:

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 127):
That is a point but also PTY is to far west also from Venezuela. Venezuela is in the nothern center of South American, so POS and PTY are at its extremes. The reason for going larger is because Venezuelans are finding a cheaper alternative to fly to the US and Trinidad is seen as another alternative.

We must not compare apples with pears here. The reason Venezuelans and many other Latin people chose PTY/CM is because they cover South America in its entirety quite well. It's not just the U.S./North America. Trinidad is also different compared to PTY as it barely covers the U.S. compared to PTY. Another thing is the by using Trinidad as a transfer point to the U.S. you actually travel backwards first and then go to the U.S. In the case of PTY you don't travel that much "out of the way" from Venezuela to the U.S. as PTY is still closer to the U.S. compared to Trinidad.

A388


User currently offlineLIA310 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Mar 2008, 407 posts, RR: 0
Reply 130, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 13268 times:

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 127):

Just a quick correction. INAC is the civil aviation authority. CADIVI is the government department responsible for foreign currency distribution.


User currently offlineguyanam From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1411 posts, RR: 1
Reply 131, posted (11 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 13049 times:

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 127):

And my biggest concern is with INAC/CADIVI. This is why I am skeptical about Venezuela. BW cannot afford to ahve cash tied up in Venezuela. I am not sure if they can get a decent market share on inbound traffic, where this isnt a problem.

Quoting A388 (Reply 129):

My point exactly. With its better coverage of the USA (both on its ownm and via UA) and South America PTY will always out compete POS. BW needs to get its house in oredr before they begin any speculative routes to South America (that is other than CCS/GEO/PBM/Eastern Venezuela).

Quoting GUYAIR707 (Reply 128):

Did you fly business class?


User currently offlinebeeweel15 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1766 posts, RR: 0
Reply 132, posted (11 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 13014 times:

For long distance flights which would be better to be based at POS or TAB - B777200ER , A330-200 or 767-300

User currently offlineGUYAIR707 From Guyana, joined Jan 2011, 708 posts, RR: 0
Reply 133, posted (11 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 12895 times:

Quoting guyanam (Reply 131):

Yes I did. Service was good, FA's were attentive.

I heard they started the lengthening of the runway at GEO but no evidence of that.

GUYAIR707


User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2654 posts, RR: 1
Reply 134, posted (11 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 12782 times:

So if POS isn't a transfer-friendly airport for Venezuelans and if BW is allowed to fly POS-CCS-KIN, then BW could well take passengers from Venezuela to KIN and have them connect to/from BW U.S-Jamaica flights @ KIN.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 131):
And my biggest concern is with INAC/CADIVI. This is why I am sceptical about Venezuela. BW cannot afford to have cash tied up in Venezuela. I am not sure if they can get a decent market share on inbound traffic, where this isnt a problem.

But BW already keeping CCS flights has have cash tied-up in Venezuela for a while now.



I'm not on CM's payroll.
User currently offlineadamh8297 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 962 posts, RR: 0
Reply 135, posted (11 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 12780 times:

B6 to interline with LI and BB (Seaborne Airlines) from various points in the Caribbean (primarily SJU SXM and BGI)

JetBlue to Fly to 25 Caribbean Destinations This Winter and Expand Interline Partnerships to Even More Islands


User currently offlineandrefranca From Brazil, joined May 2011, 622 posts, RR: 0
Reply 136, posted (11 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 12657 times:

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 135):

B6 truly replacing AE on the caribbean.


User currently offlinetrintocan From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2000, 3240 posts, RR: 4
Reply 137, posted (11 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 12596 times:

Well, B6 are growing in a big way in the region. Best wishes to them as they do so.

Quoting beeweel15 (Reply 132):
For long distance flights which would be better to be based at POS or TAB - B777200ER , A330-200 or 767-300

Well it depends on a few things. Are you thinking new or used planes? If, as one might assume, 2nd hand frames, you'll be hard pressed to find A330-200s on the used market. Very few of those have changed hands anywhere thus far. The 332 is however a good-sized frame for flying routes out of the region. The 767-300ER is a similar size and more readily available. The 777-200ER is larger than either and unless one can fill the plane with passengers and/or haul a bit of cargo to even things up, it may not be the best frame.

Are you asking with respect to a new carrier out of T&T? You'll then have to factor in home-based competition (BW). POS would have to be the base too, TAB is too small to be viable as such a base.

Quoting BW985 (Reply 125):
I doubt that the figure will be any higher than the amount of money the GORTT spends on subsidies for BA, Virgin and Monarch to fly to TAB.

Are ZB / MON subsidised into TAB? I did not think they were. As I understood it ZB flies on behalf of Golden Caribbean Holidays. A few years ago, when tourist bookings into TAB were dire and the Government of Trinidad and Tobago offered £100 rebates to UK travellers booking holidays in Crusoe's Isle, they were only available if one flew BA or VS (both of whom are subsidised). If they are now then where does that leave TAB, no flights operating there without subsidy! Before anyone jumps up and down, the umbilical route to POS is different and as an essential service will always need to be supported. We will then be left to reflect that the last non-subsidised flights into TAB ended two years ago (namely LI).

Trintocan.



Hop to it, fly for life!
User currently offlineBW424 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Sep 2008, 1435 posts, RR: 2
Reply 138, posted (11 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 12462 times:

It's awesome to see the range of opinions that make for a healthy debate concerning the LGW route.

Quoting BW985 (Reply 125):
I disagree with BW424 in this case. We all agree that the way the LGW route was not started under the best circumstances. But now that the money was spent on obtaining the aircraft and the ETOPS certificates, they should look at how they can operate this route profitably instead of giving it up.

I understand your point. Costs have already been sunk into the operations so might as well try and make it work. While I do agree with this, I'm speaking of BW doing everything to try and make it profitable yet the route still falls short. What the Moonan board and CFO Ramnarine attempted was raising fares on LGW and diluting BW's product offering on the rest of its network (ancillary revenue model) to make LGW at least break even. This is not the way to go about it. LGW has to be self-sustainable with its established target market without any impact on the rest of the airline's network.

In a nutshell, as much as I hate the way LGW began, I do not mind the route being kept as long as its not a cause for concern on BW's already strained finances. 484 also brought up the issue of the 3 fleet type in a relatively small aircraft operation which has been proven to be less efficient. Sometimes LGW (stand-alone) might be sustainable, but the economics of having a small longhaul fleet to primarily serve one longhaul market may prove to be unsustainable; hence the reason BA has a better chance of success on the routing because of its economies of scale.

Quoting BW985 (Reply 125):
BW will have to try to attract the business passengers who are mostly flying BA at the moment. At the moment BW's London flights only serve POS and GEO, but once better connections out of POS are available to places like GND, SVD, KIN, CCS etc demand for this flight could a lot higher.

This in itself will be a problem. In order to attract such premium pax from an already premium operator, you have to present yourself as just as good or better to woo the established premium frequent flyer card holders. This can only be done if you've already built up a premium brand against a respectable regional and international network with reliable in-transit connectivity. BW was doing this 2007-2010. It would have taken at least another 3-5 yrs before long-haul to the UK would have been even a remotely attractive undertaking. Back then, BW was building on their strengths and their economies of scale before looking further. Instead, the LGW route was started without these fundamental corporate milestones achieved, hence the reason the route has struggled thus far.

Quoting BW985 (Reply 125):
I agree that the board and especially the former chairman have made lots of mistake managing BW, but I do not believe that the problems at the KIN base can be blamed on the opening of the LGW route.

Well, I never said entirely, but I did say indirectly. Due to a childish heavy-handed chairman, he forced all resources to be focused towards getting that route up and running at all costs while the ATR deal (which he publicly and erroneously implied were unsafe) and the KIN integration were left bleeding profusely.

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 124):
Where specifically so you see the actual infrastructure lacking- i'm interested, perhaps there are issues i'm missing. Otherwise we have to agree to disagree. hehe

Well, we can agree to disagree as you said...With respect to the areas, they are a lot.......ranging from the placement of security checkpoints for outbound pax to the lack of concessionaires once within the departure lounge.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 134):
So if POS isn't a transfer-friendly airport for Venezuelans and if BW is allowed to fly POS-CCS-KIN, then BW could well take passengers from Venezuela to KIN and have them connect to/from BW U.S-Jamaica flights @ KIN.

That can very well be an option. But the ties both socially and economically between POS and CCS are much stronger so it will make more sense to develop that market through POS IMO.



It is what we think we know already that prevents us from learning.......
User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9891 posts, RR: 15
Reply 139, posted (11 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 12358 times:

Guys,

Do you know of below symposium?


http://www.aeropodium.com/panama.html


How is this symposium? Is it big with a lot of (cargo) airline and airport managers attending this symposium? I would like to know more about it.

Cheers,

A388


User currently offlineguyanam From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1411 posts, RR: 1
Reply 140, posted (11 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 12281 times:

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 134):

Right now the cash is negligable because its POS CCS O&D business. If they do succeed in getting long distance business from CCS via POS then these amounts soar.

The other issue is if there is not sufficient CCS KIN business then this route makes no sense. BW already needs 5X on their milk run into KIN, and operates POS KIN MCO, bringing service to daily. It doesnt appear as if there is much demand for service beyond this, if we note that BW cut back its flights from 10X to daily earlier this year.

Bottom line is BW, the GoTT, and the Piarco have to sit down and figure out how to make POS more user friendly for instransits so that BW can benefit from any opportunities which might develop. And yes, the lack of food available to intransits, especially in the evening, has bene pointed out as a problem. Airlines no longer feed passengers, and so if some one is intransit for a lengthy period then they need to eat.

Which brings me to a question. BW operates in the model of US domestic airlines with minimal inflight service, providing free hot snacks, rather than the beverage/cold purchased snacks that US carriers offer. Does CM operate on the model that most airlines flying to South America do, with full high quality meals? That might be an issue if it seeks to get passengers traveling between N America and S America.

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 136):

Not really. B6 is merely using local carriers, over which it has no control, to feed passengers into its SJU and SXM hubs. Seaborne alread has code sharing with AA via SJU.


User currently offlineandrefranca From Brazil, joined May 2011, 622 posts, RR: 0
Reply 141, posted (11 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 12196 times:

Quoting guyanam (Reply 140):

I see, but they're serving already many islands, soon they'll be omnipresent if they keep up with this expansion.


User currently offlineskystar767 From United States of America, joined Jun 2013, 53 posts, RR: 0
Reply 142, posted (11 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 12007 times:
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It seems the same guy that ran world airways and North American in to the ground is now teaming up with travel span and vision air to operate charter flights to Guyana and Trinidad. How do you guys think this will end?

User currently offlinecaribbean484 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Jan 2007, 2638 posts, RR: 2
Reply 143, posted (11 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 11996 times:

Quoting BW424 (Reply 138):

Well the airline will have to make strategic plans to improve the performance on the route. As mentioned the route has a demand, it is how CAL gets the demand is where the management will have to sit down and effectively plan out. These are some stats for the route

TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO July
GATWICK - PORT OF SPAIN 15 426 15 426 - 14 923 14 923 - 3
- TOBAGO 4 827 2 177 2 650 3 179 1 756 1 423 52
Total TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO
20 253 17 603 2 650 18 102 16 679 1 423 12

TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO
GATWICK - PORT OF SPAIN 13 604 13 604 - 13 189 13 189 - 3
- TOBAGO 3 520 1 738 1 782 2 127 1 287 840 65
Total TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO
17 124 15 342 1 782 15 316 14 476 840 12

Quoting skystar767 (Reply 142):

Not sure how it will pan out, charter airlines do not have a good reputation in the Caribbean, more so Guyana. I remember some years ago Travelspan so wanted to compete with BWIA that they racked up debts and stop flying in 2008.



All ah we is one family
User currently offlineandrefranca From Brazil, joined May 2011, 622 posts, RR: 0
Reply 144, posted (11 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 11952 times:

Quoting skystar767 (Reply 142):
It seems the same guy that ran world airways and North American in to the ground is now teaming up with travel span and vision air to operate charter flights to Guyana and Trinidad. How do you guys think this will end?
Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 143):

I make caribbean484's words mine! I believe the Guyanese won't be taken into this trap again... just my two cents.


User currently offlineBWIA 772 From Barbados, joined May 2002, 2200 posts, RR: 2
Reply 145, posted (11 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 11842 times:

Hi does anyone know anything about CIT Airways Caribbean Island Transport Airways. According to their website they are the national carrier of DOM and will be operating a fleet of Boeing 737-300s. My internet search has revealed nothing.

http://www.citairways.com/

Regards
BWIA 772