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AA And DFW Area Mayors To Make Big Announcement  
User currently offlineuser444555 From United States of America, joined Aug 2013, 356 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 26660 times:

Does anybody have an idea what it could be? Maybe new service to Asia? I would like to see AA fly to SYD with its own metal but I don't think it will be from DFW. Here is a link.

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2...hing-about-american-airlines.html/

199 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1073 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 26614 times:

Quoting user444555 (Thread starter):
Does anybody have an idea what it could be? Maybe new service to Asia? I would like to see AA fly to SYD with its own metal but I don't think it will be from DFW. Here is a link.

I think it's probably PEK or PVG... Would a 773 do DFW-HKG?

Slim chance for something in Africa maybe?



My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently offlineripcordd From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1196 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 26526 times:

My money is HKG with CX already going up on their service to ORD and all the feed AA gives them this seems right

User currently offlineHOONS90 From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 3077 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 26510 times:
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Wasn't Tom Horton recently in China meeting with officials?


The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
User currently offline747megatop From United States of America, joined May 2007, 716 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 26376 times:

I think it is going to be DFW-HKG. That is probably the reason why CX left out DFW in it's most recent round of expansion.

User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33272 posts, RR: 71
Reply 5, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 26274 times:

American has been expected to announce it's long-haul expansion for summer 2014 any day now. I suspect this might be it.


a.
User currently offlinepar13del From Bahamas, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 7625 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 26264 times:

How about something to do with the WA going away next year, get a jump on things.
Combined HQ of US and AA at DFW.

Since the Mayors are involved I'm not thinking new routes.


User currently offlinedeltaffindfw From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1447 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 26217 times:

You can watch it live:

http://hub.aa.com/en/nr/press-conference


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7804 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 26161 times:

Sounds yummy, but lets not get too excited just yet.

Possibilities:

DFW-HKG: Its possible, but I have my doubts about a 77W being viable. I have always thought it would be a 787 route if it comes.

DFW-DOH: It would be uncommon for AA to go that far outside the box, but if they are getting cozy its possible. I think it would be easier to fill because of the massive DFW-India market. But I dont think this is the one.

or something much smaller. Perhaps a European destination? But I dont see DFW being ripe for any more European destinations.

I also cant really see DFW-PEK/PVG. Most of the Chinese market in Texas lies in Houston and they have a flight already.

Or perhaps its being blown out of proportion. Only time will tell.

When is the announcement?



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User currently offlineHOONS90 From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 3077 posts, RR: 52
Reply 9, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 26083 times:
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Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 8):
When is the announcement?

The event is supposed to start at 11:30am Central Time.



The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
User currently offlinekcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3847 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 26029 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 8):
When is the announcement?

11:30am CDT


User currently offlineord2010 From United States of America, joined Sep 2013, 105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 25875 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 5):

American has been expected to announce it's long-haul expansion for summer 2014 any day now. I suspect this might be it.

their S14 expansions today announced, will it be only DFW or will it cover their other hubs like ORD and MIA? it would be nice to see some expansion on those, especially ORD that they've neglected internationally, DFW has been getting a lot of love from AA, any one know how the loads on the ICN flights are? I don't think SYD would be it, I think HKG is the most likely with a codeshare with CX (since this is an AA announcement, I'd expect it to be on AA metal not AA announcing for CX.) I don't see AA stepping into DOH, if anything QR.


User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33272 posts, RR: 71
Reply 12, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 25841 times:

It is DFWHKG and DFWPVG.


a.
User currently offlinesw733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6371 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 25761 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 12):
It is DFWHKG and DFWPVG.

YEAH! Love it love it love it.


User currently offlineord2010 From United States of America, joined Sep 2013, 105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 25761 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 12):
It is DFWHKG and DFWPVG.

Not surprised, sad to see no growth from their other hubs, that would be nice.


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11966 posts, RR: 62
Reply 15, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 25736 times:

Official - DFWHKG and DFWPVG. Wow!

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/american-airlines-responds-customer-demand-162500036.html

The 77W seems like a very big plane for the DFW-HKG route, but then again, perhaps it will work with all the connectivity on both ends. I struggle with DFW-PVG with a 3-class 772, although a 2-class 772 and eventually a 787 makes more sense.

[Edited 2013-10-16 09:31:24]

User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33272 posts, RR: 71
Reply 16, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 25619 times:

What wasn't mentioned is JFKHND is ending; and no indication JFKNRT is resuming.


a.
User currently offlineSooner787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2013, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 25625 times:

pulled quote from dallasnews.com blog

UPDATE, 11:20 a.m.: The purpose of the press conference is to announce the launch of service from Dallas/Fort Worth to Shanghai and Hong Kong, we hear.


User currently offlineHOONS90 From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 3077 posts, RR: 52
Reply 18, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 25485 times:
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Excellent news!

Hopefully there will be expansion from other hubs as well.



The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11966 posts, RR: 62
Reply 19, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 25433 times:

Also included in the PR:

In addition to welcoming the 777-300ER to Asia with the launch of service to Hong Kong, American will take delivery of and deploy additional 777-300ER aircraft to key international markets in 2014, including routes from American's hub in Miami for the first time. American will begin operating the 777-300ER on one of its two daily flights from Miami to London Heathrow (LHR) in January, and one of its four daily flights from Miami to Sao Paulo (GRU) in November 2014. American will also operate an additional 777-300ER between New York JFK and London Heathrow in March. By the end of 2014, American will have 16 of the 20 777-300ER aircraft it has on order deployed throughout its network.

With the introduction of an additional 777-300ER between JFK and London Heathrow, customers will have the opportunity to travel in fully lie-flat First Class or Business Class seats on all 12 frequencies American operates together with British Airways between the two airports, providing more fully lie-flat seats than any other airline partnership in the market.


So 77W on MIA-LHR, as was already known, plus MIA-GRU, as was expected. On JFK-LHR, it says by next year all AA/BA flights will have lie-flat J once it introduces "an additional" 77W flight. As I think AA has 4 JFK-LHR flights, does that mean (as it seems to imply) all AA flights will be 77W. Does that mean AA is cutting the morning JFK-LHR on the 772, or that by next year the first 772s will have the new lie-flat J?


User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33272 posts, RR: 71
Reply 20, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 25427 times:

Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 18):
Excellent news!

Hopefully there will be expansion from other hubs as well.

I'd expect a new European route or two from Chicago and/or New York.

Miami gets it's expansion in the winter - and indeed this winter added POA, CWB, MXP and CZM.

Los Angeles will continue to see impressive domestic expansion, but probably focus on that for now. I don't think AA would launch a third new Asian route in S14.



a.
User currently offlinedeltaffindfw From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1447 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 25287 times:

Fort Worth mayor keeps calling PVG "Shangapore".

User currently offlineord2010 From United States of America, joined Sep 2013, 105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 25278 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 20):
I'd expect a new European route or two from Chicago and/or New York.

maybe these two hubs are all full, it would be nice to see a lot more expansion but it seems like they're pretty full.


User currently offlineHOONS90 From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 3077 posts, RR: 52
Reply 23, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 25296 times:
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Did the mayor of Fort Worth just say that DFW will have nonstop flights to Hong Kong and "Shangapore"?

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 20):

Los Angeles will continue to see impressive domestic expansion, but probably focus on that for now. I don't think AA would launch a third new Asian route in S14.

I wanted to see LAX-ICN, but oh well. I'll settle with DFW-ICN.

KE is a tough competitor, but over the past few years we've seen a lot of other airlines hold their own against KE.



The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
User currently offlineLDVAviation From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 1111 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 25174 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 15):
The 77W seems like a very big plane for the DFW-HKG route, but then again, perhaps it will work with all the connectivity on both ends.

The press release states that "[b]oth routes will be operated as part of American's joint business agreement with fellow oneworld® alliance member Japan Airlines."

Does this suggest that there is traffic on both airlines that would be more efficiently routed by bypassing Tokyo?


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11966 posts, RR: 62
Reply 25, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 26464 times:

Needless to say, this is going to dramatically improve AA's standing in PVG. As many of us predicted several years ago - AA will by next year be flying to the five most important business markets in North Asia - TYO, SEL, PEK, SHA, and HKG. That is great, great news for AA (and DFW) and, just as was expected, AA is now considerably closing the gap between itself and Delta when it comes to nonstop U.S.-Asia.

Quoting commavia (Reply 19):
Does that mean AA is cutting the morning JFK-LHR on the 772, or that by next year the first 772s will have the new lie-flat J?

Looks like answer was provided on another forum from an internal memo - AA will, indeed, be dropping one JFK-LHR flight in favor of a BA flight, so AA will be down to 3x 77W on JFK-LHR. Supposedly temporary until 772s are reconfigured.


User currently offlineHOONS90 From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 3077 posts, RR: 52
Reply 26, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 25911 times:
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Does anyone have any information on the schedule for the flights? I would guess an early AM departure from DFW and a late afternoon/early evening arrival back at DFW?


The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8494 posts, RR: 6
Reply 27, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 26843 times:
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Finally AA gets to Hong Kong, on a plane worthy of "Asia's World City", the 777-300ER. This will bring AA nonstop to four cities in Asia from DFW. Shanghai is a surprise, being AA's third flight that city from LAX and ORD as well.

User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7804 posts, RR: 25
Reply 28, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 26651 times:

Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 26):
Does anyone have any information on the schedule for the flights? I would guess an early AM departure from DFW and a late afternoon/early evening arrival back at DFW?

If I had to guess, they will follow the patterns of the current NRT/ICN-DFW flights. That way all Latin America connections are available.



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User currently offlineHOONS90 From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 3077 posts, RR: 52
Reply 29, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 26202 times:
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It is rather bittersweet though, since AA is pulling out of JFK-HND. Hopefully they'll restore JFK-NRT.


The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
User currently offlinesw733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6371 posts, RR: 9
Reply 30, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 25912 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 27):
Finally AA gets to Hong Kong, on a plane worthy of "Asia's World City", the 777-300ER.

I don't think they would have started the route with anything other than a 777-300ER. It would be a really poor choice, in my opinion, to start that route with the relatively sub-par 772 J-class. Plus they can stuff more people in Y on the bigger (and 10-across) 77W.


User currently offlineHOONS90 From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 3077 posts, RR: 52
Reply 31, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 25902 times:
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Quoting sw733 (Reply 30):
I don't think they would have started the route with anything other than a 777-300ER. It would be a really poor choice, in my opinion, to start that route with the relatively sub-par 772 J-class. Plus they can stuff more people in Y on the bigger (and 10-across) 77W.

Can the 772 even fly that far with a decent payload?



The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
User currently offlinea380787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2013, 1087 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 25452 times:

Glad to see AA finally expanding to Asia. Launching a brand new route with near-VLA like 77W maybe a bit on a risky but hopefully the connections alone can sufficiently supplement the ~40 O&D PDEW.

Hopefully the low density 772 is not going to plague DFW-PVG the way it affected some of the other routes.

Funny that UA uses SFO for Asian hub (ORD to much smaller degree), DL uses both SEA and DTW, but AA seems to make DFW their preferred one over LAX/ORD with NRT/PVG/ICN/HKG. DFW-PEK now sounds like a sure thing within the next 24 months.

With the HND cancellation, Star controls a good chunk of the NYC-TYO market all of a sudden :

UA 77E
NH 77W
NH 77W/77E
DL 744 (?)
JL 77W

I wonder if HND slot is returned to the DoT pool for re-allocation ?


User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33272 posts, RR: 71
Reply 33, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 25008 times:

Quoting a380787 (Reply 32):
Hopefully the low density 772 is not going to plague DFW-PVG the way it affected some of the other routes.

Conversion to two-class, high density configuration will be underway by then, with the first planes likely flying already.



a.
User currently offlineCO777DAL From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 627 posts, RR: 0
Reply 34, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 24360 times:

Well it is about time AA did something like this. I wouldn't mind trying them in Business or First to HKG from DFW, but no way I'm going to sit in 10 abreast in coach.   

Quoting deltaffindfw (Reply 21):

Fort Worth mayor keeps calling PVG "Shangapore".

LOL. That would be good ole Fort Worth for you!    Said by a Dallasite.



Worked Hard. Flew Right. Farewell, Continental. Thanks for the memories.
User currently offline747megatop From United States of America, joined May 2007, 716 posts, RR: 0
Reply 35, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 24396 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 28):
If I had to guess, they will follow the patterns of the current NRT/ICN-DFW flights. That way all Latin America connections are available.

Why would anyone want to connect via DFW given that -

1) Going via DXB (or for that matter AUH) is shorter? For example; HKG to GRU is 1700nm shorter (1700nm is something like a 4 hour ATL-LAX flight)

2 segment path: 13234 mi
HKG (22°18'32"N 113°54'53"E) DFW (32°53'49"N 97°02'17"W) 29.0° (NE) 8123 mi
DFW (32°53'49"N 97°02'17"W) GRU (23°25'55"S 46°28'10"W) 132.4° (SE) 5111 mi
2 segment path: 11276 mi
HKG (22°18'32"N 113°54'53"E) DXB (25°15'10"N 55°21'52"E) 285.6° (W) 3684 mi
DXB (25°15'10"N 55°21'52"E) GRU (23°25'55"S 46°28'10"W) 252.9° (W) 7592 mi

2) You will have to clear immigrations and Customs at DFW with the added pain that you will need a transit visa if you don't have a passport that belongs to a visa waiver country.

So, unless the passenger is stopping over at Dallas to conduct business before going on the Latin America/HKG depending on the direction of travel i don't think there is much connecting traffic on any of these flights over DFW as compared to DXB/AUH.
I think onward connections at DFW are mostly to other US cities.

[Edited 2013-10-16 11:15:29]

User currently offlineBoeingMerica From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 36, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 24363 times:

Quoting a380787 (Reply 32):

Glad to see AA finally expanding to Asia. Launching a brand new route with near-VLA like 77W maybe a bit on a risky but hopefully the connections alone can sufficiently supplement the ~40 O&D PDEW.

I don't think the 77W was as much as a "go big or go home" move, rather it is a logical choice for two reasons.

1) It's the new, shiny toy for AA with all the amenities.

2) They don't really have any birds with the legs to fly such a route beyond the 77W, and if they do, it isn't any smaller then the 77W. Certainly, being a brand spanking new two holer, it is as efficient as they get for the route.

BoeingMerica


User currently offlineflyguy1 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1743 posts, RR: 4
Reply 37, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 24045 times:

Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 29):
It is rather bittersweet though, since AA is pulling out of JFK-HND. Hopefully they'll restore JFK-NRT.

This is pretty big news actually. Will AA resume JFK-NRT? Perhaps JAL with a second daily (787?) flight, instead?



727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17821 posts, RR: 46
Reply 38, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 23762 times:

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 35):
Why would anyone want to connect via DFW given that -

Outside of GRU/GIG, AA still has some of the better/best one stop options



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinejmw99ttu From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 72 posts, RR: 0
Reply 39, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 23610 times:

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 35):
Why would anyone want to connect via DFW given that -

Sure, if you're going to GRU, but you can connect with one stop to LIM, BOG, MEX, SCL, EZE, etc with one stop via DFW. All of those would require 2 stops if using a ME3 carrier. I believe the northern cities of South America would also be a longer routing via DXB/GRU instead of DFW.


User currently offlinepudfw From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 121 posts, RR: 0
Reply 40, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 22915 times:

Its interesting that there is no mention of Cathay Pacific in the press release or specific connecting opportunities in Hong Kong.

User currently offlineCXGabriel From United States of America, joined Sep 2013, 55 posts, RR: 0
Reply 41, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 22773 times:

Congrats to AA!

AA and CX code-shared between HKG and other Asian cities, so I'm pretty sure AA can fill the 77W. But I'll have to say that I'd still prefer flying CX out of ORD then flying AA out of DFW from where I am in the southeast in Y or premium economy.


User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2240 posts, RR: 15
Reply 42, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 22748 times:

Some more analysis here:

http://upgrd.com/aerospace/breaking-...ounces-dfw-hong-kong-shanghai.html

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 16):
What wasn't mentioned is JFKHND is ending; and no indication JFKNRT is resuming.

Good. There's really no reason to keep hacking at HND. Along with JL, AA will be safe in protecting OneWorld market share from NYC to TYO flying to NRT instead.

Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 23):
I wanted to see LAX-ICN, but oh well. I'll settle with DFW-ICN.

Well, DFW-ICN is old news, but LAX-ICN is a bloodbath. You have TG, OZ and KE on these routes. The latter two benefit from much lower cost structure, alongside entrenched presences in the LA-Korea market.

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 24):
Does this suggest that there is traffic on both airlines that would be more efficiently routed by bypassing Tokyo?

Yes. In a subtle twist of events, AA has probably taken a page out of Delta's book with Seattle. Concentrating US-Asia routes to be overly Japan-centric is no longer a fool proof plan. Instead, it's a matter of isolating which TPAC gateway provides the most likelihood of success and then investing in the infrastructure, product and network to develop from there.

For UA, it's never been necessary to second guess the power of SFO. Delta took note of this, and after fumbling a few times with a few Asian failures from PDX, then ATL and finally DTW (post-merger), the carrier has found its 'niche' in SEA.

Now, AA has finally woken up and realized its better to act now rather than later, and continue to watch the competition eat up more opportunities. Waiting for its merger with US Airways to clear the courtroom (which may go South anyways) wasn't going to help expedite matters.

DFW will be American's largest gateway to Asia when these two routes come online. However, I'm very curious to see how these, particularly the DFW-PVG flight, will affect ORD-PVG, LAX-PVG, and ORD-PEK.

Quoting commavia (Reply 25):
Needless to say, this is going to dramatically improve AA's standing in PVG. As many of us predicted several years ago - AA will by next year be flying to the five most important business markets in North Asia - TYO, SEL, PEK, SHA, and HKG. That is great, great news for AA (and DFW) and, just as was expected, AA is now considerably closing the gap between itself and Delta when it comes to nonstop U.S.-Asia.

It's a HUGE day. I think this is probably American's biggest route announcement in the last decade, IMO.

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 35):
Why would anyone want to connect via DFW given that -

OH, I was waiting for the haters to come through. It only took 35 posts. Can people start to see the proof is in the pudding, for once?!

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 38):
Outside of GRU/GIG, AA still has some of the better/best one stop options

Well, well, well! Nice to hear something pro-DFW come from your end!   



next flights: jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg, cdg-phl-msp
User currently offline747megatop From United States of America, joined May 2007, 716 posts, RR: 0
Reply 43, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 22263 times:

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 42):
OH, I was waiting for the haters to come through. It only took 35 posts. Can people start to see the proof is in the pudding, for once?!

My my...no hating    ; just some head scratching and some logical questioning.


User currently offlineincitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4067 posts, RR: 13
Reply 44, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 22210 times:

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 35):
2) You will have to clear immigrations and Customs at DFW with the added pain that you will need a transit visa if you don't have a passport that belongs to a visa waiver country.

Do you really know this stuff? Have you ever even done it? International-to-international connections in the USA do not have to clear customs. You clear immigration and never have to see your bags.

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 35):
i don't think there is much connecting traffic on any of these flights over DFW as compared to DXB/AUH.

There are multiple reasons why someone would not want to connect in DXB or AUH. The most obvious one is there might be a cheaper alternative.

Let me offer another reason that may matter to half of the world: Someone might object to dealing with companies from countries that treat women as inferior beings when other alternatives are available.



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User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3766 posts, RR: 3
Reply 45, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 22124 times:

Quoting a380787 (Reply 32):
Hopefully the low density 772 is not going to plague DFW-PVG the way it affected some of the other routes.

The 772 fleet is losing F and going to the same 10 abreast Y configuration that the 77W has.



PHX based
User currently offlineJDAirCEO From Uruguay, joined Jan 2006, 280 posts, RR: 0
Reply 46, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 22070 times:

So this article saying CLT could be an Asian gateway may not be correct? I MEAN IT'S CLT! It can support any flight it wants!!!

http://www.thestreet.com/story/12062...rican-airlines-future-in-asia.html  



An MD-80 is great... in first class
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17821 posts, RR: 46
Reply 47, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 22015 times:

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 42):
Well, well, well! Nice to hear something pro-DFW come from your end!

I'm always pro DFW  
Quoting flyguy1 (Reply 37):
Will AA resume JFK-NRT? Perhaps JAL with a second daily (787?) flight, instead?

I've said it before and I'll say it again, something is not working in the JL/AA JV if JFKNRT and ORDNRT do not work on AA.

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 24):
Does this suggest that there is traffic on both airlines that would be more efficiently routed by bypassing Tokyo?

I'm wondering in the long run one of the two daily NRT either goes away or becomes something else, like PEK. At the same time I think AA can easily maintain two daily NRT plus multiple beyonds with no trouble.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineaa1818 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Feb 2006, 3437 posts, RR: 4
Reply 48, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 21476 times:

Quoting incitatus (Reply 44):
Do you really know this stuff? Have you ever even done it? International-to-international connections in the USA do not have to clear customs. You clear immigration and never have to see your bags.

As far as I know you do have to clear customs.
I haven't done Int'l to Int'l in over a year through the US, but certianly last April POS-MIA-LHR and July POS-MIA-YYZ I had to clear both immigration and customs.

I don't see it as a huge hassel- just bag drop and proceed to nearest secuity checkpoint. Lots of people do it- it seems that only the elite travellers of A.net have a serious problem with it, otherwise MIA would not be the mecca of Latin American and Caribbean connections that it is today despite COPA in Panama and the advent of many more P2P flights on local and regional carriers.

AA1818



“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 329 posts, RR: 0
Reply 49, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 21635 times:

Wow, exciting news. DFW-HKG will be the sixth longest flight in the world, and four of the ten longest routes in the world will be from DFW.

User currently offlinejmw99ttu From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 72 posts, RR: 0
Reply 50, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 21152 times:

And now for one of A.net's favorite games, find the error in the news article. This one is courtesy of the DFW local ABC affiliate.

DFW-Airport-228050091.html" target="_blank">http://www.wfaa.com/news/business/Am...-out-of-DFW-Airport-228050091.html


User currently offlineuser444555 From United States of America, joined Aug 2013, 356 posts, RR: 0
Reply 51, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 21021 times:

Quoting aa1818 (Reply 48):
As far as I know you do have to clear customs.
I haven't done Int'l to Int'l in over a year through the US, but certianly last April POS-MIA-LHR and July POS-MIA-YYZ I had to clear both immigration and customs.

After 9/11 you did have to clear both Immigration and Customs for several years. A few years ago that changed and if your flights are in the same itin you clear Immigration only and don't have to retrieve your bags. They also have a large In Transit lounge at DFW but it is not used. I think it would be good for AA if they can convince DFW to open it. I don't know what the Customs laws are but DFW wanted this built for possible future use.


User currently offlinedeltaffindfw From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1447 posts, RR: 0
Reply 52, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 20529 times:

Quoting user444555 (Reply 51):
After 9/11 you did have to clear both Immigration and Customs for several years. A few years ago that changed and if your flights are in the same itin you clear Immigration only and don't have to retrieve your bags. They also have a large In Transit lounge at DFW but it is not used. I think it would be good for AA if they can convince DFW to open it. I don't know what the Customs laws are but DFW wanted this built for possible future use.

That's interesting. If you don't clear customs at DFW, then how do you get up to the gates? I didn't think there was another exit to the gate space. Plus, the gate space exits directly outside security as normal US domestic airports. What would stop someone from bypassing customs to say they are connecting and then leave the airport?


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7804 posts, RR: 25
Reply 53, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 20282 times:

Mods, can we change the name of this thread to something along the lines of "AA begins DFW-HKG and DFW-PVG''?


Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineuser444555 From United States of America, joined Aug 2013, 356 posts, RR: 0
Reply 54, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 20055 times:

Quoting deltaffindfw (Reply 52):
That's interesting. If you don't clear customs at DFW, then how do you get up to the gates? I didn't think there was another exit to the gate space. Plus, the gate space exits directly outside security as normal US domestic airports. What would stop someone from bypassing customs to say they are connecting and then leave the airport?

The previous posters were commenting on retrieving bags for inspection. At least that was my understanding. Yes you must still walk through customs with or without your luggage and exit into the terminal before going back through security. You and your carry-on luggage are still subject to inspection but anything checked upline will be transferred to your next flight.


User currently offlineuser444555 From United States of America, joined Aug 2013, 356 posts, RR: 0
Reply 55, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 20042 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 53):
Mods, can we change the name of this thread to something along the lines of "AA begins DFW-HKG and DFW-PVG''?

That would be great if they could. I looked but I cannot change it.


User currently offlinedeltaffindfw From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1447 posts, RR: 0
Reply 56, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 19954 times:

Quoting user444555 (Reply 54):


That makes sense. Sorry for the confusion!


User currently offline747megatop From United States of America, joined May 2007, 716 posts, RR: 0
Reply 57, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 20031 times:

Quoting incitatus (Reply 44):
Do you really know this stuff? Have you ever even done it? International-to-international connections in the USA do not have to clear customs. You clear immigration and never have to see your bags.

Well, i know this stuff because a friend has connected via LAX to LHR from NZ (had to reclaim baggage and go through customs). On the contrary i don't think you know this stuff  .

For example, here is proof too -
1) http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airl...-guide-dallas-fort-worth/global/en
"All customers travelling on Qantas operated flights from Australia to Dallas/Fort Worth will clear customs and immigration in Dallas/Fort Worth."

2) http://www.ifly.com/dallas-fort-wort...international-airport/terminal-map
"2. International Arrivals/ Transfers: Unless you have gone through US customs clearance by participating airports in Canada and the Caribbean, you need to go through passport check, retrieve checked bags, go through customs clearance and - if transferring to another flight - re-check-in bag (the tag should indicate layover and final destination Airport Codes). The Skylink at post-security gets you to your connecting flight. However, you can also use the walkway between A, B, C & D gates - the E gates are not connected by walkway."

Quoting incitatus (Reply 44):

There are multiple reasons why someone would not want to connect in DXB or AUH. The most obvious one is there might be a cheaper alternative.

Agreed, cheaper alternative would be one.

Quoting incitatus (Reply 44):

Let me offer another reason that may matter to half of the world: Someone might object to dealing with companies from countries that treat women as inferior beings when other alternatives are available.

If so QF would not have partnered with EK. Same with Virgin Australia partnering with EY. And, last but not the least, EK would not be one of the fastest growing international carriers in the world with a lot of Aus/NZ-Europe traffic connecting via DXB (or for that matter on QR/EY via their respective hubs).


User currently offlineupwardfacing From British Indian Ocean Territory, joined Apr 2013, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 58, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 19559 times:

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 57):
Agreed, cheaper alternative would be one.

A more basic consideration is that neither EK nor EY currently fly to Mexico, Central America, or Northern South America. Not to mention the Gulf routing would be longer from Northeast Asia anyway.

People connect via the USA to Latin America and the Caribbean regularly; these travellers typically already have US visas, if they need them. For many Latin and Caribbean destinations, it really is the more convenient choice--or sometimes the only practical one.


User currently offlineuser444555 From United States of America, joined Aug 2013, 356 posts, RR: 0
Reply 59, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 19609 times:

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 57):
For example, here is proof too -
1) http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airl...-guide-dallas-fort-worth/global/en
"All customers travelling on Qantas operated flights from Australia to Dallas/Fort Worth will clear customs and immigration in Dallas/Fort Worth."

2) http://www.ifly.com/dallas-fort-wort...international-airport/terminal-map
"2. International Arrivals/ Transfers: Unless you have gone through US customs clearance by participating airports in Canada and the Caribbean, you need to go through passport check, retrieve checked bags, go through customs clearance and - if transferring to another flight - re-check-in bag (the tag should indicate layover and final destination Airport Codes). The Skylink at post-security gets you to your connecting flight. However, you can also use the walkway between A, B, C & D gates - the E gates are not connected by walkway."

The last I heard, QF was an exception at DFW regarding reclaiming luggage and re-checking it. I cannot comment on LAX. I do not know what their procedures are, But at DFW, on inbound intl BA and AA flights connecting to AA outbound intl flights, you do not have to claim and recheck luggage that was checked in at upline cities.


User currently offlineincitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4067 posts, RR: 13
Reply 60, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 19172 times:

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 57):
Well, i know this stuff because a friend has connected via LAX to LHR from NZ

Great. That makes an expert in a.net.

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 57):
2) http://www.ifly.com/dallas-fort-wort...l-map

Great source, unfortunately wrong.



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User currently offlineairdfw From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 201 posts, RR: 0
Reply 61, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 19146 times:

How many hours is DFW-HKG flight?

User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33272 posts, RR: 71
Reply 62, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 19193 times:

Quoting airdfw (Reply 61):
How many hours is DFW-HKG flight?

It will be blocked for 16 hours, 20 minutes.



a.
User currently offlinethekennady From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 394 posts, RR: 0
Reply 63, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 19030 times:

I knew eventually AA would launch HKG from somewhere, DFW it the only one that makes sense albiet a 40 pdew will not alone support the flight, Latam and eastcoast/midwest connections hopefully will make it work. As far as DFW-PVG, i dont see what this route brings to AA that cant already be covered on the ORD or LAX routes. Latam connections could help it but wouldnt any domestic connections pull away from LAX and especially from ORD?

User currently offlineHOONS90 From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 3077 posts, RR: 52
Reply 64, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 18986 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CHAT OPERATOR

I flew ICN-DFW-YYZ and had to pick up my bags at DFW.

Edit... Now that I think about it, I was originally booked with a double connection at DFW and ORD but got rebooked because my DFW-ORD was delayed. Maybe that's why?



[Edited 2013-10-16 15:06:26]


The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11966 posts, RR: 62
Reply 65, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 18604 times:

Quoting thekennady (Reply 63):
albiet a 40 pdew will not alone support the flight, Latam and eastcoast/midwest connections hopefully will make it work.

A nonstop flight will almost certainly stimulate local demand. Plus, there will obviously be immense connectivity on both ends - across the Americas at DFW, and throughout Asia at HKG. In particular, HKG is going to offer unprecedented connectivity from DFW to Southeast Asia.

Quoting thekennady (Reply 63):
As far as DFW-PVG, i dont see what this route brings to AA that cant already be covered on the ORD or LAX routes.

The south. This will be the only nonstop flight from PVG, the financial center of China, to the American South - an increasingly important region for economic linkage with China.


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8494 posts, RR: 6
Reply 66, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 18494 times:
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Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 47):
I've said it before and I'll say it again, something is not working in the JL/AA JV if JFKNRT and ORDNRT do not work on AA.

Lets hope that ANA /UA are not going to dominate the ORD and JFK to NRT routes.


User currently offline9w748capt From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 625 posts, RR: 1
Reply 67, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 18287 times:

Wow - big time announcement by AA. Great stuff.

I wonder how hard it'll be to upgrade with cash&miles on DFW-HKG, especially early in the launch? Planning on doing DPS for our honeymoon so that would be a rather pleasant option  
Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 42):
Some more analysis here:

http://upgrd.com/aerospace/breaking-....html

Hadn't seen your blog yet! Will definitely be adding it to my favorites. Nice analysis btw!

And perhaps I missed it but does anyone know about timings for DFW-HKG? morning dep -evening arrival? or late night dep with early morning arrival?

NM - just saw the timings on flyertalk.

[Edited 2013-10-16 15:46:38]

User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5938 posts, RR: 5
Reply 68, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 18116 times:

Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 64):
Now that I think about it, I was originally booked with a double connection at DFW and ORD but got rebooked because my DFW-ORD was delayed. Maybe that's why?

I think so, as you were technically connecting onto a domestic flight. Last year I flew LHR-MIA-UIO-MIA-LAX-BNE, outbound through MIA I didn't need to collect my bags as I was connecting international-international, whereas inbound I did as I was connecting to a domestic flight, even though I was leaving the country the same on an on-line connection and couldn't touch my bags at LAX.

That said, it is somewhat academic. You save, what, 10 minutes not waiting at the carousel? You still have to go through the full CBP experience, and - as someone said - if you are coming a citizen of a non-waiver country then you have to separately apply for a visa.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlinea380787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2013, 1087 posts, RR: 0
Reply 69, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 17902 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 66):
Lets hope that ANA /UA are not going to dominate the ORD and JFK to NRT routes.

And that would be a bad thing because .... ? As long as JL/AA exist on those routes, prices would be in check.


User currently offlineflymd1976 From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 14 posts, RR: 0
Reply 70, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 17748 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

WHERE IS THE CHICAGO LOVE!!! Chicago is the third largest market in the U.S. and from a location standpoint (directly in the center of the country) it is the best located of all of American's hubs (unless of course you're trying to get to or from Mexico, Central or South America). There is a reason 3 major carriers (i.e. American, United and Southwest) have major hubs in Chicago and it just feels like American is willing to ceade to United at ORD. I'm an AA Elite FF in Chicago and I've watched United get more and more dominant here while American has gotten weaker and weaker. If you like domestic RJ's and connecting to reach your international destinations from Chicago, then AA is your carrier. I really hope that they really get their act together not only in Chicago but just in general. What was once a mighty carrier is now a distant third to United and Delta in both domestic and international offerings, hopefully that will change.

User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 71, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 17235 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting flymd1976 (Reply 70):
WHERE IS THE CHICAGO LOVE!!! Chicago is the third largest market in the U.S. and from a location standpoint (directly in the center of the country) it is the best located of all of American's hubs (unless of course you're trying to get to or from Mexico, Central or South America). There is a reason 3 major carriers (i.e. American, United and Southwest) have major hubs in Chicago and it just feels like American is willing to ceade to United at ORD. I'm an AA Elite FF in Chicago and I've watched United get more and more dominant here while American has gotten weaker and weaker. If you like domestic RJ's and connecting to reach your international destinations from Chicago, then AA is your carrier. I really hope that they really get their act together not only in Chicago but just in general. What was once a mighty carrier is now a distant third to United and Delta in both domestic and international offerings, hopefully that will change.
ORD is expected to get a daily link to GRU by 2015.

[Edited 2013-10-16 16:51:09]


New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlinezululima From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 338 posts, RR: 3
Reply 72, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 17233 times:

I for one think this is partially BAD news for DFW. We had a chance to get a decent carrier (Cathay) operating to Hong Kong, but now that AA is flying it, forget about it. I'll connect in ORD or LAX next time I go there.


I didn't get a 'Harumph' outta that guy!
User currently offlineGSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3104 posts, RR: 2
Reply 73, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 17088 times:

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 4):
I think it is going to be DFW-HKG. That is probably the reason why CX left out DFW in it's most recent round of expansion.

Hope this hasn't been asked or brought up already, but KE (a Skyteam member) has flights to ICN from DFW (and has for quite some time) without benefit of a Skyteam hub funneling pax to their flights. Wouldn't CX do even BETTER at DFW, with built-in Oneworld support??



Finally made it to an airline mecca!
User currently offlineAADC10 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2103 posts, RR: 0
Reply 74, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 17060 times:

It will be interesting to see if DFW-PVG has an impact on the more O&D LAX-PVG. UA has already downguaged LAX-PVG to a 788.

Quoting flymd1976 (Reply 70):
Chicago is the third largest market in the U.S. and from a location standpoint (directly in the center of the country)

It is near the population center of the country but it is quite some distance from the geographic center. Moves at ORD are going to be matched by UA while AA faces limited competition at their DFW fortress hub.


User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17821 posts, RR: 46
Reply 75, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 17012 times:

Quoting flymd1976 (Reply 70):
WHERE IS THE CHICAGO LOVE!!!
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 71):
ORD is expected to get a daily link to GRU by 2015.

Plus PEK, DUS, and HEL. One of those might even stick around 

[Edited 2013-10-16 17:13:29]


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineJasoncrh From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 301 posts, RR: 3
Reply 76, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 16549 times:

And with this this there goes any hope of MIA-Asia in the near future

User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33272 posts, RR: 71
Reply 77, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 16566 times:

Quoting Jasoncrh (Reply 76):
And with this this there goes any hope of MIA-Asia in the near future

If by "near future" you mean 2014, sure, that's true.

[Edited 2013-10-16 17:44:44]


a.
User currently offlineLDVAviation From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 1111 posts, RR: 5
Reply 78, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 16445 times:

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 42):
Yes. In a subtle twist of events, AA has probably taken a page out of Delta's book with Seattle.

That's not the same playbook. What I think you have here are two partners with data that shows that Tokyo is just a connection point for passengers headed from the US to HKG and PVG or vice-versa. Given that experience, the JV sees an opportunity to start a direct flight from the US to HKG and PVG. Outside of a JV, I don't think JAL would be inclined to give up the interline/codeshare traffic, but since it shares costs and revenues with AA in a JV this is an opportunity with a lot of premium upside for both.

By my reckoning, this is the second time AA has used this new alliance strategy. Elements of this strategy are also evident in AA's decision to start LAX-GRU and LAN's decision to terminate SFO-Lima. A secondary route (e.g., SFO-Lima) is sacrificed for the sake of starting a more premier route (LAX-GRU) that serves the overall strategic needs of the alliance better.


User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17821 posts, RR: 46
Reply 79, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 16393 times:

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 78):
A secondary route (e.g., SFO-Lima) is sacrificed for the sake of starting a more premier route (LAX-GRU) that serves the overall strategic needs of the alliance better.

I don't think there's any coordination there whatsoever. Plus they're both terrible routes but AA wants to find out the hard way.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineoc2dc From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 410 posts, RR: 0
Reply 80, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 15976 times:

Overall, this is incredibly good news for AA and DFW. However, I do have some questions and concerns.

It seems that everybody on this site is always talking about how AA is bleeding out on ORD/LAX-PVG and yet AA is starting PVG from DFW. Is there something we don't know, or is AA just trying desperately to become a larger presence at PVG in order to make a name for itself?

Also, I'm curious about how this PVG flight will effect LAX-PVG. I hope there's enough room for all the flights.

I'm overjoyed about DFW-HKG and the fact that they are using their biggest aircraft for a new route is almost unprecedented. I realize AA doesn't have any other aircraft with the ability to fly this route, but this goes against AA's conservative 77W deployment, which, until now, has only been to GRU and LHR.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 33):
Conversion to two-class, high density configuration will be underway by then, with the first planes likely flying already.

The conversions are supposed to start in a few months and yet we've heard nothing about the new J product and layout. Do we know of an announcement to come?

And that conversion will be incredibly necessary/helpful for many of AA's Asia flights.



I'm not complaining, I'm critiquing...
User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33272 posts, RR: 71
Reply 81, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 15892 times:

Quoting oc2dc (Reply 80):
The conversions are supposed to start in a few months and yet we've heard nothing about the new J product and layout. Do we know of an announcement to come?

No. All I've heard is that the original new J product was poorly reviewed, causing them to go back and do some modifying. But the first 772 and first 763 should be flying by 1Q14, with the 763s being converted at a faster rate.



a.
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11966 posts, RR: 62
Reply 82, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 15559 times:

Quoting oc2dc (Reply 80):
It seems that everybody on this site is always talking about how AA is bleeding out on ORD/LAX-PVG and yet AA is starting PVG from DFW. Is there something we don't know, or is AA just trying desperately to become a larger presence at PVG in order to make a name for itself?

A few comments.

First, I don't think AA's biggest issue in Asia have ever been PVG. PEK and HND have seemed the far bigger challenge given that both are so horribly scheduled. LAX-PVG's schedule is suboptimal, but not hopeless, and ORD-PVG is timed just fine.

Second, much of the issues AA has had to date with non-NRT Asia are, I think, largely a product of the way the 777s are configured, which is entirely incompatible with market realities in 2013. That plane is far too low-density, and the conversion to a larger, all-lie-flat J and larger Y is overdue. An anecdotal case in point: I have seen AA183 boarding at LAX (to PVG) multiple times, and literally every single time, the flight has been either oversold (i.e., they were offering vouchers to get off) or very full. The issue on these flights isn't loads. It's yields, and density. Getting higher-density 777s into PVG, PEK, etc., and perhaps soon 787s, may well make a big difference.

Finally, I think AA's efforts to develop in non-NRT Asia are, indeed, a strategic investment, albeit not desperate, I don't think. AA knows it needs to develop in Asia. AA dominates Latin America, is broadly competitive in Europe (and will be quite competitive in the event of a merger), but Asia is a big gap. I, and others, have long contended that AA doesn't really have too far to go in order to be at least broadly competitive with Delta in Asia. The JAL JBA was the first puzzle piece. As predicted, ICN was the next. Also predicted, HKG was next. Developing Mainland China is obviously a piece of the puzzle.

And at least in terms of presence, it appears AA's focus is getting somewhere. By my count, AA will - as of next year - have the same number of daily U.S.-China flights as Delta, 5. AA will have 1 flight Korea-U.S., while Delta will have 2. When combined with JAL as part of the JBA, AA will have 15 flights Japan-U.S., Delta 14. That's the three most economically important markets in East Asia, and in 2 of the 3, AA is - in one sense - at par with, if not larger than, Delta. Not bad.

Quoting oc2dc (Reply 80):
Also, I'm curious about how this PVG flight will effect LAX-PVG. I hope there's enough room for all the flights.

I think they largely cater to different markets. LAX caters to the large O&D market, plus connectivity in the western/southwestern U.S. DFW requires backtracking for many of these same connections, while it's ideal for connectivity to the central and southern U.S. That being said, LAX-PVG is an uphill climb for AA - always has been. As previously mentioned, a reconfigured 777, if not a new 787, cannot come soon enough for that market.

Quoting oc2dc (Reply 80):
I realize AA doesn't have any other aircraft with the ability to fly this route, but this goes against AA's conservative 77W deployment, which, until now, has only been to GRU and LHR.

I think the 77W was always intended to be more than just an upgauge for trunk routes - i.e., LHR and GRU. It will of course always have a role in those types of markets. But there have been markets - like HKG, and I believe also perhaps JNB/CPT - where the capabilities of an airplane like the 77W, even with its size, could also be a game changer.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 81):
But the first 772 and first 763 should be flying by 1Q14, with the 763s being converted at a faster rate.

I find that amazing. Reconfigurations starting in less than six months and nothing's been announced? Hmmm ...

[Edited 2013-10-16 19:01:39]

User currently offlineaacun From Mexico, joined Jan 2004, 562 posts, RR: 1
Reply 83, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 15250 times:
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Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 81):
No. All I've heard is that the original new J product was poorly reviewed, causing them to go back and do some modifying. But the first 772 and first 763 should be flying by 1Q14, with the 763s being converted at a faster rate.

Actually, IIRC I read somewhere not long ago that the 767 interior reconfiguration process has been placed on hold for now. Any news on this..anyone????


User currently offlineincitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4067 posts, RR: 13
Reply 84, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 15076 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 82):
where the capabilities of an airplane like the 77W, even with its size, could also be a game changer.

Yes but when you count the number of frames and the routes one would think AA wants to keep F plus new routes such as HKG, there does not seem to be enough 77W orders to go around.



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User currently offlineJasoncrh From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 301 posts, RR: 3
Reply 85, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 15045 times:

No MIA-Asia fr the next 5 years, if ever. There arevMULTIPLE ways to get from the entire state of florida to Asia, and these new routes capture the best Latin traffic there is. Sorry.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 77):


User currently offlineLDVAviation From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 1111 posts, RR: 5
Reply 86, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 14751 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 79):
I don't think there's any coordination there whatsoever. Plus they're both terrible routes but AA wants to find out the hard way.

CAPA suggested there was some coordination in this article --- http://centreforaviation.com/analysi...er-service-from-la-to-peru-127191.

I didn't think that sort of coordination took place, especially between two non-JV partners. In short, LAN needed the plane; American needed the traffic that was already flowing over LIMA into GRU. It is either completely coincidental or there was a discussion between the two codeshare partners to that effect.

Now, we see with these two new routes the same strategy, except in the context of a joint venture... We shall see if this type of coordination makes an otherwise questionable route successful.


User currently offlinethekennady From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 394 posts, RR: 0
Reply 87, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 14745 times:

Overall i am shocked by these announcements, never saw it coming. Great for AA and DFW, but if AA wants to compete and remain a balanced carrier, they must show some love to other hubs besides DFW, not everything will work from there. DFW is doing wery well though, now a gateway to Asia, Latam, and to Australia. Ive had no choice but to take notice, DFW is clearly on the rise.

User currently onlinecx828 From Hong Kong, joined May 2007, 167 posts, RR: 0
Reply 88, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 14659 times:
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While AA has 10 Y in a row, will that be too heavy for DFW to HKG with strong head wind, does 77W has that range?

User currently offlineStuckInCA From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1999 posts, RR: 0
Reply 89, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 14588 times:

Quoting user444555 (Reply 51):
After 9/11 you did have to clear both Immigration and Customs for several years. A few years ago that changed and if your flights are in the same itin you clear Immigration only and don't have to retrieve your bags.

That is not the case in Seattle as far as I know. Arriving on AA or DL they make it abundantly clear that you must get your bag even if you are connecting (at all). During the announcements they even mention international connections. Unless I'm hallucinating after being awake for so long?!


User currently offlineaaway From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1560 posts, RR: 18
Reply 90, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 14269 times:

Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 23):
I wanted to see LAX-ICN, but oh well. I'll settle with DFW-ICN.
Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 42):
Well, DFW-ICN is old news, but LAX-ICN is a bloodbath. You have TG, OZ and KE on these routes. The latter two benefit from much lower cost structure, alongside entrenched presences in the LA-Korea market.
LAX-ICN is nearly as dense as LAX-TYO and not nearly as competitive. Also, ICN is one of the top worldwide premium markets. I think there will be room for a U.S. carrier with an established presence and strong market fundamentals to support the route.

2014 might not be the most opportune time to launch another flagship route from LAX. There will be a lot of disruption at AA's LAX T-4 over the next year. Additionally, AA won't have access to the new TBIT gates until 2015.

Upcoming fleet additions and modifications will help to ensure AA, should LAX-ICN be launched, has the right aircraft for the route.

In the interim, the AA presence in ICN can continue to mature.

[Edited 2013-10-16 21:44:27]


With a choice between changing one's mind & proving there's no need to do so, most everyone gets busy on the proof.
User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33272 posts, RR: 71
Reply 91, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 14272 times:

Quoting thekennady (Reply 87):
they must show some love to other hubs besides DFW, not everything will work from there.

How are they not showing love to other hubs? ORDDUS, ORDHEL, LAXGRU, LAXPVG, MIABCN, MIAMXP, MIAASU, MIAPOA, JFKDUB have launched, just to name a few over the past two years.

They've added close to 20 destinations from just Los Angeles.



a.
User currently offlinemiaami From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 634 posts, RR: 0
Reply 92, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 14066 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 91):
ORDHEL

Is ORD-HEL returning next summer? AA.com does not have it available for booking yet.


User currently offlineord2010 From United States of America, joined Sep 2013, 105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 93, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 14028 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 91):
ORDDUS, ORDHEL

ORD-HEL isn't new, its been running seasonally for around 3 years now I believe, as for DUS that is really an AB flight, only reason they started that was to complement AB's TXL flights. as if it'll be returning I hope so, ORD-HEL is a great route, I don't believe it is listed in their route sheets for the 2014 year yet, but neither are today's two announcements or any other seasonal (ORD-DUB/FCO I don't believe are up either. Besides DUS, when was the last time AA added to ORD instead of cut internationally?


User currently offlinethekennady From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 394 posts, RR: 0
Reply 94, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 13927 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 91):
ORDDUS, ORDHEL, LAXGRU, LAXPVG, MIABCN, MIAMXP, MIAASU, MIAPOA, JFKDUB

Some of those routes are not recent and compared to what they have added at DFW, its minimal. DFW has seen more growth in the past year or so than any other AA hub.....PVG, HKG, ICN, LIM, BOG, RTB, BJX, NAS have all been added to DFW, its clearly seen the most expansion. I'm happy for the folks at DFW, a great airport that is adding a lot of service.


User currently offlineord2010 From United States of America, joined Sep 2013, 105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 95, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 13853 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 75):
Plus PEK, DUS, and HEL. One of those might even stick around

PEK has been doing well and AA just adjusted their times finally to be competitive with HU which now also flies the route, so I expect it'll stay especially with the new influx of Chinese tourist to the city. HEL i'm not sure if it'll return in 2014, I've always heard that it fares well, but its 2013 run was oddly short and no word on 2014. DUS I believe went from daily to 5x's if im not mistaking for the winter, but is year round, hopefully it won't be dropped like FRA, ord DEL or everything else AA has dropped and just left the bare minimum of internationa flights at ORD, while UA is busy building a powerful hub that really does connect you to every edge of the globe, it not with them with a partner (in 2014 with UA and code shares they'll offer 4 cities in the UK non stop.) While AA is busy adding RJ's with nothing to connect with.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 71):
ORD is expected to get a daily link to GRU by 2015.

They were denied the rights once, wouldn't be surprised if they are again, and even if they were granted AA didn't seem too keen on launching this fast, plus an AA connection to GRU is kind of expected given their strong stand in brazil. Nothing out of the ordinary like DFW-PVG. I dare say it would be nicer to see JJ's tail at T5 doing daily GRU for OW.

Quoting flymd1976 (Reply 70):
WHERE IS THE CHICAGO LOVE!!! Chicago is the third largest market in the U.S. and from a location standpoint (directly in the center of the country) it is the best located of all of American's hubs (unless of course you're trying to get to or from Mexico, Central or South America). There is a reason 3 major carriers (i.e. American, United and Southwest) have major hubs in Chicago and it just feels like American is willing to ceade to United at ORD. I'm an AA Elite FF in Chicago and I've watched United get more and more dominant here while American has gotten weaker and weaker. If you like domestic RJ's and connecting to reach your international destinations from Chicago, then AA is your carrier. I really hope that they really get their act together not only in Chicago but just in general. What was once a mighty carrier is now a distant third to United and Delta in both domestic and international offerings, hopefully that will change.

My thoughts exactly, you sir captured my thoughts. I wouldn't count DL out, I think the CDG flight is giving them a foot in the door and I think they like it, given their current 'competition' with UA and large amounts of skyteam carriers at ORD, I wouldn't be surprised if DL decided to randomly launch a new ORD international flight just to stir up the water and cause turmoil at UA.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 66):
Lets hope that ANA /UA are not going to dominate the ORD and JFK to NRT routes.

They kind of already are, again UA sensed weakness with AA and jumped on it, upgrading ORD-NRT from a 772 to a 744 again and tagging on ICN at the end, and then let NH (ANA) launch a 2nd daily, their JV is obviously working, as is UA/LH which knocked AA off the FRA route, hopefully we won't see that happen with NRT, a HND flight could help maybe?


User currently offlineByrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2462 posts, RR: 1
Reply 96, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 13574 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 82):
As previously mentioned, a reconfigured 777, if not a new 787, cannot come soon enough for that market.


Since AA needs the reconfigured 772's so desperately, why weren't the planes converted when they were painted in the new livery? Seems like a perfect waste of down time, and AA could have already had the premium-lite T7's flying on LAX-PVG and other routes.

Quoting commavia (Reply 82):
I believe also perhaps JNB/CPT - where the capabilities of an airplane like the 77W, even with its size, could also be a game changer.


Initially sending a F/J heavy 77W to JNB would threaten the viability of the route considering the market only supports J between SA and DL. As AA builds its market presence in Africa, a 772 would prove a more appropriate match to demand.

Quoting aaway (Reply 90):
Additionally, SA)">AA won't have access to the new TBIT gates until 2015.


But in the meantime, nothing prevents AA from requesting use of TBIT gates just like any other intl carrier. 2015 is too long for them to wait to begin the reconfig.

[Edited 2013-10-16 22:43:40]


The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
User currently offlineuser444555 From United States of America, joined Aug 2013, 356 posts, RR: 0
Reply 97, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 13554 times:

Quoting incitatus (Reply 84):
Yes but when you count the number of frames and the routes one would think AA wants to keep F plus new routes such as HKG, there does not seem to be enough 77W orders to go around.

One of the AA press releases I read said something interesting about taking delivery of additional 77W's. I don't think it means they have ordered more, but it sounds like they might. I remember they increased their original order and I think they have options for more.

"In addition to welcoming the 777-300ER to Asia with the launch of service to Hong Kong, American will take delivery of and deploy additional 777-300ER aircraft to key international markets in 2014, including routes from American's hub in Miami for the first time. American will begin operating the 777-300ER on one of its two daily flights from Miami to London Heathrow (LHR) in January, and one of its four daily flights from Miami to Sao Paulo (GRU) in November 2014. American will also operate an additional 777-300ER between New York JFK and London Heathrow in March. By the end of 2014, American will have 16 of the 20 777-300ER aircraft it has on order deployed throughout its network."


User currently offlineuser444555 From United States of America, joined Aug 2013, 356 posts, RR: 0
Reply 98, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 13522 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 79):
I don't think there's any coordination there whatsoever. Plus they're both terrible routes but AA wants to find out the hard way.

LAX-GRU might work. From what I hear a lot of Brazilians are going to LAS and AA connects a lot of them through DFW now on a daily basis. This also might help fill their LAX-LAS-LAX flights.


User currently offlineaaway From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1560 posts, RR: 18
Reply 99, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 13439 times:

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 96):
But in the meantime, nothing prevents SA)">AA from requesting use of TBIT gates just like any other intl carrier. 2015 is too long for them to wait to begin the reconfig.

The (continuing) reconfig/refurb....continues. But, until ALL gates become operational, AA takes lower priority to the current tenants.

It isn't just about gate access, though. With pending construction at T-4, the entire service experience from curb to gate will be affected. There will be major dislocations of pax service (and other) functions beginning early 2014, lasting into 2015.



With a choice between changing one's mind & proving there's no need to do so, most everyone gets busy on the proof.
User currently offlineuser444555 From United States of America, joined Aug 2013, 356 posts, RR: 0
Reply 100, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 13406 times:

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 89):
That is not the case in Seattle as far as I know. Arriving on AA or DL they make it abundantly clear that you must get your bag even if you are connecting (at all). During the announcements they even mention international connections. Unless I'm hallucinating after being awake for so long?!

Again, I don't know how it works at other airports or if you are connecting from one alliance to another, but I know from personal experience that pax on AA and BA intl arrivals connecting to AA intl departures do not have to claim their luggage checked at upline cities. They put a special tag on the bag which I might still have somewhere. If I do I wll post a picture.

[Edited 2013-10-16 23:23:59]

User currently offlineaaway From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1560 posts, RR: 18
Reply 101, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 13363 times:

Quoting user444555 (Reply 100):
Again, I don't know how it works at other airports or if you are connecting from one alliance to another, but I know from personal experience it that pax on AA and BA intl arrivals connecting to AA intl departures do not have to claim their luggage checked at upline cities. They put a special tag on the bag which I might still have somewhere. If I do I wll post a picture.

At some airports, with approval from and coordination with CBP, carriers can participate in what is known as ITI - International-to-International Transit. Specific security requirements are requisite for implementation of ITI.

I can't find the specific CBP link detailing ITI, but here's a link to a CBP press release announcing an ITI trial at SJU earlier this year:
http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/newsroom/...local/2013_nr/may13/05032013_5.xml



With a choice between changing one's mind & proving there's no need to do so, most everyone gets busy on the proof.
User currently offlinemhkansan From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 720 posts, RR: 1
Reply 102, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 13413 times:

ORD-DUS and ORD-HEL are both doing quite well. HEL has lots of interesting connections on AY. It seems lots of pax destined to any of the MOW airports transit HEL.

DUS has it's share of business traffic. With LH retrenching to MUC and FRA, it opens the doors to AB/AA to use DUS as a good gateway to Germany. I'd like to see more routes to Europe like DUS, and the 763 is a good aircraft for Chicago-Europe. I wish we could see some more European business cities return when AA exits bankruptcy to compliment the US service, maybe a return to GLA, BRU, or AMS. AA could boldly try to reenter the ORD-FRA market, but with the 763 the hard product would be easily beaten by LH and the 748i!

This is great news for DFW and AA. I think the HKG route will do well and I'm glad we'll have more PVG options from MHK. It's difficult moving hundreds of college students to/from KSU and China during the beginning/end of the school year with limited schedules!


User currently offlineuser444555 From United States of America, joined Aug 2013, 356 posts, RR: 0
Reply 103, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 13264 times:

Quoting aaway (Reply 90):
2014 might not be the most opportune time to launch another flagship route from LAX. There will be a lot of disruption at SA)">AA's LAX T-4 over the next year. Additionally, SA)">AA won't have access to the new TBIT gates until 2015.


For some reason the site is putting "SA" in front of all the "AA's". I saw this on someone elses post also. I do not know why it is doing this and I tried to edit them out but that did not work. Sorry.

I am still hoping to see SA)">AA metal to SYD and AKL so they can add metal neutrality to the TPAC JBV. There is already enough OA competition on the route that one SA)">AA flight a day would not be unreasonable. They would not want to do it from DFW where their only competition is QF.

As someone else mentioned, the other big hole in SA)">AA's network is JNB and maybe CPT. SA)">AA has the closest US hub to JNB and there is no reason they cannot make it work if SA)">DL does flying to a hub without dedicated SA (Star A) help. Add to that the fact the OW connections to get there take 2 days from most places in the US, and you have a route that is primed and ready for an SA)">AA flight. A reconfigured 77L would be great. If anyone at SA)">AA scheduling is reading this, feel free to pass it along. I always thought SA)">AA did not fly this already because of lack of planes, but that problem is solved now.

Quoting ord2010 (Reply 95):
They were denied the rights once, wouldn't be surprised if they are again, and even if they were granted SA)">AA didn't seem too keen on launching this fast, plus an SA)">AA connection to GRU is kind of expected given their strong stand in brazil. Nothing out of the ordinary like DFW-PVG. I dare say it would be nicer to see JJ's tail at T5 doing daily GRU for OW.

Isn't BR going open skies soon?

I agree that it was sad watching SA)">AA cut intl flights at ORD. It used to be their gateway to Europe but hten SA)">AA cut ARN, BHX, BRU, FRA, MUC, MXP, and others I cannot recall. A merger would bring back some of these, but might not bring them back to ORD. I do think the merger will help ORD though because ORD will be the only northern hub west of PHL (PIT being a focus city at best). A larger total network, I think, will attract more pax especially business pax.

Adding HKG, SYD, JNB on SA)">AA metal and US's European destinations will fill the gaps and really make the new

[Edited 2013-10-16 23:15:00]

[Edited 2013-10-16 23:17:22]

User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33272 posts, RR: 71
Reply 104, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 13325 times:

Quoting mhkansan (Reply 102):
ORD-DUS and ORD-HEL are both doing quite well. HEL has lots of interesting connections on AY. It seems lots of pax destined to any of the MOW airports transit HEL.

ORD-DUS, yes. ORD-HEL is hardly doing well.



a.
User currently offlinemhkansan From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 720 posts, RR: 1
Reply 105, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 13251 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 104):
ORD-HEL is hardly doing well.

I think it will be here to stay, if not go year-round. I flew it in August r/t and the flight was busy in both directions. I see lots of traffic up to Finland. It's a good market for AA.

I'd like to see MIA-HEL. HEL is among the top destinations from MIA unserved. AY doesn't have the aircraft to do this, an AA 763 would be a nice bird for this service.


User currently offlineuser444555 From United States of America, joined Aug 2013, 356 posts, RR: 0
Reply 106, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 13242 times:

For some reason the the site is adding "SA" in front of all the "AA's" I noticed this on someone elses post also. I tried to edit them out but that cut off the end of my post. The end said

Adding HKG, SYD, JNB on SA)">AA metal and US's European destinations will fill the gaps and really make the new AA a real competitor globally IMO.

BTW, Horton was asked about the merger yesterday and said they are still looking for a reasonable settlement.


User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33272 posts, RR: 71
Reply 107, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 13300 times:

Quoting mhkansan (Reply 105):
I think it will be here to stay, if not go year-round. I flew it in August r/t and the flight was busy in both directions. I see lots of traffic up to Finland. It's a good market for AA.

The route isn't even summer-round, it didn't even operate for three months in 2013 because of weak bookings.

It's probably here to stay on a limited summer schedule, but it's not a great performer.



a.
User currently offlineuser444555 From United States of America, joined Aug 2013, 356 posts, RR: 0
Reply 108, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 13196 times:

Quoting mhkansan (Reply 102):
DUS has it's share of business traffic. With LH retrenching to MUC and FRA, it opens the doors to AB/AA to use DUS as a good gateway to Germany. I'd like to see more routes to Europe like DUS, and the 763 is a good aircraft for Chicago-Europe. I wish we could see some more European business cities return when AA exits bankruptcy to compliment the US service, maybe a return to GLA, BRU, or AMS. AA could boldly try to reenter the ORD-FRA market, but with the 763 the hard product would be easily beaten by LH and the 748i!

After being out of the ORD FRA market for a couple years it might be hard to re-enter with a 763. I was told the flight made money but AA needed the planes for more profitable routes. At the time AA was starting the new China service which took 77L's from other routes which were backfilled with 763's in some cases. This makes sense because about that time, AA changed DFW FRA to a 763 after it had been a 77L for a long time. It is now back to a 77L I think year round, which again makes sense because they have the 77W's now. AA should have plenty of 763's available for as long as they would like to keep them and they would be a good plane for ORD to Europe flights IMO. If AA proceeds with the new J class they might do well with a revamped Y.

[Edited 2013-10-16 23:31:46]

User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5938 posts, RR: 5
Reply 109, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 13162 times:

Quoting ord2010 (Reply 95):
I think the CDG flight is giving them a foot in the door and I think they like it, given their current 'competition' with UA and large amounts of skyteam carriers at ORD, I wouldn't be surprised if DL decided to randomly launch a new ORD international flight just to stir up the water and cause turmoil at UA.

In which case you clearly don't understand why DL serve this route. Maybe its fanboyism providing you with rose tinted spectacles? DL is operating this route as a de facto AF flight. Without an immunised joint venture partner there would be less than a bats chance in hell of DL launching longhaul from ORD, especially just to 'toy' with United. If you're lucky they might fly ORD-AMS, but at the expense of a KL flight.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineByrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2462 posts, RR: 1
Reply 110, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 13064 times:

Quoting user444555 (Reply 103):
A reconfigured 77L would be great.

I just don't see SA)">AA purchasing a subfleet of 77L's just for a particular route.

Quoting user444555 (Reply 103):
SA)">AA has the closest US hub to JNB

If you are referring to MIA, then that would technically be incorrect. JFK is closer, but not by much.

Quoting user444555 (Reply 103):
SA)">DL does flying to a hub without dedicated SA (Star A) help.

One positive fact about any potential JNB service, is that SA)">AA can codeshare with OW affiliate Comair(MN) to connect to regional destinations. This is something SA)">DL can't do unless they partner with SA. So SA)">AA should have some connection ability on both ends of the route.



The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
User currently offlineuser444555 From United States of America, joined Aug 2013, 356 posts, RR: 0
Reply 111, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 13027 times:

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 110):
I just don't see SA)">AA purchasing a subfleet of 77L's just for a particular route.
AA already has a fleet of 77L's they are reconfiguring, no need to purchase a new subfleet.

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 110):
If you are referring to MIA, then that would technically be incorrect. JFK is closer, but not by much.

Wow you are correct and it is less than 100 miles difference. So to correct myself I will say the closest fortress hub  

Thanks for pointing that out. And for pointing out the BA Comair link. All of this and the lousy current connections combined should make this an easy decision for AA.

[Edited 2013-10-17 00:10:27]

User currently offlineByrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2462 posts, RR: 1
Reply 112, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 12924 times:

Quoting user444555 (Reply 111):
AA already has a fleet of 77L's they are reconfiguring, no need to purchase a new subfleet.

I think you are confusing 77L(777-200LR) with the 77E(777-200ER). AA only operates the 77E and 77W and has never had or will never order the 777LR. Well I guess I should never say never.

Quoting user444555 (Reply 111):
Wow you are correct and it is less than 100 miles difference. So to correct myself I will say the closest fortress hub

Similar to Latin America, I believe MIA would make the best gateway to southern Africa simply due to the zero possibility of backtracking to anywhere in the continental US.

If and when AA solidifies their presence in South Africa, JFK could become an expansion route.



The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
User currently onlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 14
Reply 113, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 12600 times:

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 110):

While it would be a somewhat of a sub fleet the 77Ls can be made to be almost the same as a 77W.
The 110 and 115 GE90s are basically the same also(but it doesn't matter because AA will send them off for overhaul)





I'm not saying they will order the LR, but with the 77W in the fleet it would be that much of a sub fleet.



yep.
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8494 posts, RR: 6
Reply 114, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 11816 times:
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Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 96):
Initially sending a F/J heavy 77W to JNB would threaten the viability of the route considering the market only supports J between SA and DL. As AA builds its market presence in Africa, a 772 would prove a more appropriate match to demand.

SAA and DL don't do First Class but that doesn't mean there isn't a demand for it, SAA 747's had First Class. BA and Lufthansa have flown 747's and soon both A380's to Johannesburg with First and Business Class for decades. Emirates flies 777 with First Class as does Cathay Pacific from Hong Kong. South Africa, being so far from everywhere, is a market that is a natural for First Class.


User currently offlinepolnebmit From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 100 posts, RR: 0
Reply 115, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days ago) and read 11584 times:

Service to HKG and PVG

User currently offlinea380787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2013, 1087 posts, RR: 0
Reply 116, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 11139 times:

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 112):

Similar to Latin America, I believe MIA would make the best gateway to southern Africa simply due to the zero possibility of backtracking to anywhere in the continental US.

"Backtracking" no, but definitely some detours compared to JFK :

Just take ORD-JNB. Via JFK is 8709mi while via MIA is 9258mi. Boston-JNB is probably close to worst case scenario : Via JFK 8155mi while via MIA 9319mi.

Similar to the concept that SFO-SYD is shorter than LAX-SYD, despite the latter's "natural" location of southwest US

But we're totally digressing here since the thread is about DFW-Asia, not MIA-Africa


User currently offlineorganizethesky From United States of America, joined Jul 2013, 25 posts, RR: 0
Reply 117, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 11005 times:

Looking forward to seeing the schedule. If they depart at the traditional asian departure time (10am-1pm) Terminal D is going to be a busy place with 6 asian departures, the Dubai departure and all the other smaller stuff going on at that time of the morning.

What are the possibilities HKG will be a 10pm departure from DFW?


User currently offlinea380787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2013, 1087 posts, RR: 0
Reply 118, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 10617 times:

Quoting organizethesky (Reply 117):
What are the possibilities HKG will be a 10pm departure from DFW?

Domestically, I think every big town can connect to 10am dept. Only downside is that it requires going to the airport at like 5-6am at your original airport in order to leave sufficient connection time - a bit painful if you ask me.

The 2pm UA or 3pm CX ORD-HKG departures allow much more sane departures out of their original airports if you're connecting.


User currently offlinebehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4847 posts, RR: 44
Reply 119, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 10525 times:

The routes will start from June 2014 but any idea on the flight schedules/timings please?

User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2240 posts, RR: 15
Reply 120, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 10532 times:

Quoting zululima (Reply 72):

I for one think this is partially BAD news for DFW. We had a chance to get a decent carrier (Cathay) operating to Hong Kong, but now that AA is flying it, forget about it. I'll connect in ORD or LAX next time I go there.

While I agree that it would be exciting to see a new foreign flag carrier at Terminal D in DFW, I don't think it's a huge disappointment to discover that AA decided to tackle the DFW-HKG route before CX.

In terms of product, I've heard raving reviews about the new seats in F and J on the AA 77Ws. I've also heard that the CX YCL cabin on the 77W is pretty cramped at 10 abreast.

Again, purely anecdotal, but something tells me on that long of the flight, the differences between the two carriers become somewhat negligible after awhile.

Further, it's more important, long-term, for AA to be serving HKG on its own metal, rather than CX serving another US market on its own metal. UA has been serving HKG nonstop from the US for decades, and DL will be resuming the same route in a few months. While it was rumored CX was considering a potential launch to DFW, there wasn’t any conclusive indication that they were making concrete efforts to move forward with that plan in the near-term future.

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 73):
Hope this hasn't been asked or brought up already, but KE (a Skyteam member) has flights to ICN from DFW (and has for quite some time) without benefit of a Skyteam hub funneling pax to their flights. Wouldn't CX do even BETTER at DFW, with built-in Oneworld support??

Well, the DFW-ICN market is also a larger local market than DFW-HKG, and ICN's geography also facilitates connections beyond Korea to all parts of Asia. HKG is more circuitous for connections. Also, it's been discussed here that KE connects a lot of thru-traffic on AA metal at DFW.

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 78):
That's not the same playbook. What I think you have here are two partners with data that shows that Tokyo is just a connection point for passengers headed from the US to HKG and PVG or vice-versa. Given that experience, the JV sees an opportunity to start a direct flight from the US to HKG and PVG. Outside of a JV, I don't think JAL would be inclined to give up the interline/codeshare traffic, but since it shares costs and revenues with AA in a JV this is an opportunity with a lot of premium upside for both.

I don't see how that is different from the realizations that Delta has made in Asia as well. Adopting a heavy Japan-centric approach to US-Asia ops doesn't always prove to be the best/safest strategy. But yes, agree that the terms of the JV facilitated full support from JAL.

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 78):
By my reckoning, this is the second time AA has used this new alliance strategy. Elements of this strategy are also evident in AA's decision to start LAX-GRU and LAN's decision to terminate SFO-Lima. A secondary route (e.g., SFO-Lima) is sacrificed for the sake of starting a more premier route (LAX-GRU) that serves the overall strategic needs of the alliance better.

It's possible, but also not unlikely that SFO-LIM wasn't a stellar performer. Limited schedule, long flight, lack of connections on the SFO end, weak business ties between NorCal and Peru, and overall, need for LATAM to rationalize network and cut under-performing routes to clean up its post-merger balance sheet. Plus, doesn't UA fly direct SFO-LIM via IAH?

Quoting ord2010 (Reply 95):
PEK has been doing well and AA just adjusted their times finally to be competitive with HU which now also flies the route, so I expect it'll stay especially with the new influx of Chinese tourist to the city.

Do you have data to back this up?

Quoting ord2010 (Reply 93):
as for DUS that is really an AB flight

Not really. AA and AB are not metal neutral across the Atlantic.



next flights: jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg, cdg-phl-msp
User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 6131 posts, RR: 9
Reply 121, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 10507 times:

Quoting organizethesky (Reply 117):
What are the possibilities HKG will be a 10pm departure from DFW?

Well that would get you into HKG around 0400 probably a little early.....I am not sure if HKG has a curfew either.

UAs ORD-HKG flight leaves at 1230 and arrives into HKG around 1730. A DFW departure around 1200 would get you in around 1800 that seems more reasonable.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17821 posts, RR: 46
Reply 122, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 10470 times:

Quoting mhkansan (Reply 102):

ORD-DUS and ORD-HEL are both doing quite well. HEL has lots of interesting connections on AY.

Those HEL connections are essentially LO spill, so they're not great. DUS isn't much better and the fares are terrible. If either of the two make it another year I'll be surprised.

Quoting user444555 (Reply 98):
LAX-GRU might work. From what I hear a lot of Brazilians are going to LAS and AA connects a lot of them through DFW now on a daily basis

The fares are horrendous to LAX/LAS



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinequestions From Australia, joined Sep 2011, 852 posts, RR: 1
Reply 123, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 10440 times:

How has 3-4-3 been received by AA's passengers?

Any credible reports that UA and DL will follow?


User currently offlineus330 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 3877 posts, RR: 14
Reply 124, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 10398 times:

Quoting user444555 (Reply 97):
One of the AA press releases I read said something interesting about taking delivery of additional 77W's.

Their Facebook/Twitter account mentioned that they were planning on having 16 in the fleet by the end of 2014--Wikipedia says that they have ordered 20.


User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 6131 posts, RR: 9
Reply 125, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 10384 times:

Quoting questions (Reply 123):
Any credible reports that UA and DL will follow?

No indication either airline will follow AA at this point....UA just finished retrofitting its fleet so highly unlikely in UAs case.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7804 posts, RR: 25
Reply 126, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 10397 times:

Quoting ord2010 (Reply 95):
PEK has been doing well

Not one shread of truth to that statement. ORD-PEK for AA has been in the dumps. ORD-PVG does much better than PEK. LAX-PVG isnt doing well for AA right now though. Truth be told Im a lot more skeptical of DFW-PVG. DFW-HKG will be successful in some form or fashion.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 6131 posts, RR: 9
Reply 127, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 10391 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 126):
LAX-PVG isnt doing well for AA right now though. Truth be told Im a lot more skeptical of DFW-PVG. DFW-HKG will be successful in some form or fashion.

Do you think LAX-PVG might be dumped once the DFW flight comes online?



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlinemax999 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1084 posts, RR: 0
Reply 128, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 10335 times:

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 120):
In terms of product, I've heard raving reviews about the new seats in F and J on the AA 77Ws. I've also heard that the CX YCL cabin on the 77W is pretty cramped at 10 abreast.
http://www.cathaypacific.com/cx/en_U...t-fleet/777-300/777-300er-77h.html

Check their seat map...CX has 3-3-3 in Y and 2-4-2 in premium Y. Whereas AA has 3-4-3 and 3-3-3, respectively. CX product is definitely better.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 126):
DFW-HKG will be successful in some form or fashion.

I have some doubts about it because I think AA is going to have a hard time filling up their biggest aircraft in front and back. O&D numbers between DFW and HKG are low. While it's a Oneworld hub to hub flight...the connections for DFW are not that good. Very few people from the Northeast, Midwest, or West would want to backtrack through DFW...especially when there are already non-stop flights to HKG from each of those regions.



All the things I really like to do are either immoral, illegal, or fattening.
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7804 posts, RR: 25
Reply 129, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 9968 times:

Quoting max999 (Reply 128):
I have some doubts about it because I think AA is going to have a hard time filling up their biggest aircraft in front and back. O&D numbers between DFW and HKG are low.

Lets talk for a moment about filling the aircraft. Lets use PDEW numbers:

DFW-HKG is around 45 PDEW. With maturity from a nonstop, it will probably end up around 65-70 PDEW.
DFW-TPE is around 40 PDEW.
DFW-Vietnam is around 70 PDEW
DFW-MNL is a mere 25 PDEW.

These are the largest viable connections from the DFW area.

Lets assume DFW-HKG only makes it to 60 PDEW with maturity. That means from HKG and the viable connecting markets, thats about 195 passengers based in Dallas that could viably be served by this flight. Now then, DFW-MNL and DFW-Vietnam have terrible fares so they arent going to be any help in filling the front cabin. DFW-HKG/TPE does have some front end traffic so that will help a bit.

To me, the challenge isnt going to be filling the plane. DFW-HKG is small compared to markets like SFO, LAX, ORD, and NYC. But its larger than IAD/ATL/IAH-HKG and about the same size as MIA-HKG.

The focus is going to be getting as much O&D as possible along with connections from MIA, IAH, ATL, and (depending on the schedule) Latin America.

DFW-PVG Im much more pessimistic about. I watched ATL-PVG become the laughing stock of DL's international network. I cant imagine that DFW-PVG will fare terribly better even though I really want to be proven wrong there. DFW-PVG and ATL-PVG are similarly sized local markets. What made DTW-PVG much more successful than ATL-PVG is the larger local market and a route rich with auto traffic. What will probably give DFW-PVG an advantage is that AA has more brand recognition there with flights already to ORD and LAX, but I dont know if that will be enough.

Long term, this is what I see DFW's Asia network looking like:

DFW-NRT - daily 77W
DFW-ICN - daily 777
DFW-HKG - daily 77W

and hopefully (but Im not betting the farm)
DFW-PVG - daily 777



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5373 posts, RR: 25
Reply 130, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 9768 times:

Interesting adds. DFW-HKG is not at all unexpected, though I do wonder if it might switch to a 789 once those enter the fleet. I realize the 77W is all that AA has to operate this route right now, but it just seems like too much airplane for a route like DFW-HKG. I do wonder about DFW-PVG. As we know, ATL-PVG has been tried on two occassions and dropped both times. I know that DFW has somewhat more O/D to PVG than ATL, but I'm skeptical that it's going to be much different.

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 78):
Elements of this strategy are also evident in AA's decision to start LAX-GRU and LAN's decision to terminate SFO-Lima. A secondary route (e.g., SFO-Lima) is sacrificed for the sake of starting a more premier route (LAX-GRU) that serves the overall strategic needs of the alliance better.

That's just a retelling of the familiar a.net myth that airlines routinely drop profitable or break-even routes in favor of all those much more profitable routes out there. If SFO-LIM was profitable, it would still be around. Given what we know about the LAX-GRU market, one can imagine how SFO-LIM performed if Oneworld feels LAX-GRU is a better use of their resources.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 120):
It's possible, but also not unlikely that SFO-LIM wasn't a stellar performer.

SFO-LIM was not a stellar performer. Had it been a stellar performer, LA would still be flying it.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 114):
SAA and DL don't do First Class but that doesn't mean there isn't a demand for it, SAA 747's had First Class.

If the home carrier doesn't offer first class, then there likely isn't that much of a demand for it. Yes BA, LH, EK, and CX offer first class to JNB, but that doesn't mean that there is first class demand to the US. It just means that there is first class demand on the routes those specific airlines fly.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 114):
South Africa, being so far from everywhere, is a market that is a natural for First Class.

How does South Africa's distance from much of the world mean that it's a natural market for first class service?

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 126):
LAX-PVG isnt doing well for AA right now though.

I've heard the same.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 126):
Not one shread of truth to that statement.

  

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 126):
Truth be told Im a lot more skeptical of DFW-PVG. DFW-HKG will be successful in some form or fashion.

Agreed.



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2240 posts, RR: 15
Reply 131, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 9695 times:

Quoting max999 (Reply 128):
Check their seat map...CX has 3-3-3 in Y and 2-4-2 in premium Y. Whereas AA has 3-4-3 and 3-3-3, respectively. CX product is definitely better.

Again, I said that my claims were purely anecdotal. My cousin (who is short and small) recently flew CX in Y on the JFK-YVR flight. She said it felt cramped, and that was just on a 4.5 hour flight.

Bear in mind that CX also uses the slide-forward seats which are not immensely popular, either.

Quoting max999 (Reply 128):
Very few people from the Northeast, Midwest, or West would want to backtrack through DFW...especially when there are already non-stop flights to HKG from each of those regions.

Yet, there are none from the south. The region is too large and important to neglect.

The same argument could have been posed for CA's recent IAH-PEK flight, yet nobody protested. Wasn't there a thread floating around last week allegedly claiming that this route was "instantly profitable?"



next flights: jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg, cdg-phl-msp
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7804 posts, RR: 25
Reply 132, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 9596 times:

Quoting United1 (Reply 127):
Do you think LAX-PVG might be dumped once the DFW flight comes online?

Truth be told, Im not sure. I dont think it will be short term, but PVG is a prime example of a market where the 2-class 777 cant come soon enough for AA. Look for DFW-ICN/LAX-PVG/DFW-PVG/ORD-PEK to be the very first recipents of it. I think AA will re-evaluate the preformance of all of the above and then decide what looks good.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlinemax999 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1084 posts, RR: 0
Reply 133, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 9429 times:

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 131):
Again, I said that my claims were purely anecdotal. My cousin (who is short and small) recently flew CX in Y on the JFK-YVR flight. She said it felt cramped, and that was just on a 4.5 hour flight.

Bear in mind that CX also uses the slide-forward seats which are not immensely popular, either.

It's fine if someone feels cramped in their seat...that's a subjective opinion. You wrote that you thought CX is 10 abreast so I wanted to show you that link to the seat map to get the facts straight.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 131):
Yet, there are none from the south. The region is too large and important to neglect.

The same argument could have been posed for CA's recent IAH-PEK flight, yet nobody protested. Wasn't there a thread floating around last week allegedly claiming that this route was "instantly profitable?"

I agree that DFW-HKG will rely on connections from the South. Compare it to a flight from ORD, which can potentially capture connections from the South, Midwest, and the Northeast. It's just geography.



All the things I really like to do are either immoral, illegal, or fattening.
User currently offlineuser444555 From United States of America, joined Aug 2013, 356 posts, RR: 0
Reply 134, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 9392 times:

Quoting organizethesky (Reply 117):

Looking forward to seeing the schedule. If they depart at the traditional asian departure time (10am-1pm) Terminal D is going to be a busy place with 6 asian departures, the Dubai departure and all the other smaller stuff going on at that time of the morning.

What are the possibilities HKG will be a 10pm departure from DFW?

AA might need to ask DFW to do some gate shifting. Only about half of AA's gates at Terminal D are WB capable and they are nearing capacity during the late morning and evening WB peaks. DFW is adding a Skywalk to connect AE's low Terminal B gates (high D) to Terminal D's customs facilities which would free up the gates AE uses on the other end (low D) of Terminal D. But the problem is that KL, QF, BA, LH, EK, and KE are currently in between AE and AA's international gates. With the new service to China, DFW might be willing to do some shuffling and AA's OW partners probably would not complain about shifting. AA probably has just enough gates to do their proposed schedule but if something goes out of service or off schedule, it could cause some issues. They use some of the Terminal D gates for domestic WB departures and arrivals including HNL and OGG. The strictly domestic WB turns could be moved to Terminal A or C, but it has been my experience that most of the WB ops at DFW have at least one inbound or outbound intl operation.


User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17821 posts, RR: 46
Reply 135, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 9392 times:

Quoting max999 (Reply 133):
Compare it to a flight from ORD, which can potentially capture connections from the South, Midwest, and the Northeast. It's just geography.


ORD has very little connectivity to the South, Southeast, and certainly Latin America, particularly Mexico where a lot of manufacturing is moving and growing



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineuser444555 From United States of America, joined Aug 2013, 356 posts, RR: 0
Reply 136, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 9357 times:

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 131):
Again, I said that my claims were purely anecdotal. My cousin (who is short and small) recently flew CX in Y on the JFK-YVR flight. She said it felt cramped, and that was just on a 4.5 hour flight.

Bear in mind that CX also uses the slide-forward seats which are not immensely popular, either.

Thanks for the information. I have heard great things about CX's service but not many reviews on the seats. Do you think the seats on AA vs CX are comparable? Does it vary by cabin? Thanks again.

[Edited 2013-10-17 10:03:03]

User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33272 posts, RR: 71
Reply 137, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 9339 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 132):
Truth be told, Im not sure. I dont think it will be short term, but PVG is a prime example of a market where the 2-class 777 cant come soon enough for AA. Look for DFW-ICN/LAX-PVG/DFW-PVG/ORD-PEK to be the very first recipents of it. I think AA will re-evaluate the preformance of all of the above and then decide what looks good.

I think all the routes are very safe. The 2-class planes will be a huge help, for sure.

DFWPVG was ultimately chosen, I have heard, to be added over JFKPVG, MIANRT and LAXPEK.



a.
User currently offlinea380787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2013, 1087 posts, RR: 0
Reply 138, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 9199 times:

Quoting user444555 (Reply 136):
Thanks for the information. I have heard great things about CX's service but not many reviews on the seats. Do you think the seats on AA vs CX are comparable? Does it vary by cabin? Thanks again.

CX has already unveiled new econ seats with conventional recline, so i'm sure the 77W won't wait long before refitting

basically it comes down to : 32" pitch 3-3-3 versus 31" pitch 3-4-3


User currently offlinegegarrenton From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 139, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 9027 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 12):
It is DFWHKG and DFWPVG.

Win.


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8494 posts, RR: 6
Reply 140, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 9012 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting OA412 (Reply 130):
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 114):South Africa, being so far from everywhere, is a market that is a natural for First Class.
How does South Africa's distance from much of the world mean that it's a natural market for first class service

When SAA went ordered A340's is when they ditched First Class. There is a First Class market there because many Foreign airlines sell First Class to JNB. BA and LH could send J class planes with no FC if there was no demand for it, but they don't, they send A380's to J'berg.


User currently offlineoc2dc From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 410 posts, RR: 0
Reply 141, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 8971 times:

Quoting incitatus (Reply 84):
Yes but when you count the number of frames and the routes one would think SA)">AA wants to keep F plus new routes such as HKG, there does not seem to be enough 77W orders to go around.
Quoting user444555 (Reply 97):
One of the SA)">AA press releases I read said something interesting about taking delivery of additional 77W's. I don't think it means they have ordered more, but it sounds like they might. I remember they increased their original order and I think they have options for more.

SA)">AA will have a total of 16 77W's by the end of 2014. A total of 20 77W's have been ordered. That should be plenty for all current and planned routes. Hopefully we will see an additional order, but I doubt it considering the 789 is coming online next year.

Quoting mhkansan (Reply 102):
I'd like to see more routes to Europe like DUS, and the 763 is a good aircraft for Chicago-Europe. I wish we could see some more European business cities return when SA)">AA exits bankruptcy to compliment the US service, maybe a return to GLA, BRU, or AMS. SA)">AA could boldly try to reenter the ORD-FRA market

Quite Frankly, SA)">AA's presence in FRA is ridiculous. How is it that SA)">AA can only support one flight a day. SA)">DL seems to be competing with LH just fine on JFK-FRA. There is no reason SA)">AA couldn't at least do a daily JFK-FRA. I also don't see why SA)">AA can't compete on ORD-FRA. It hurts to see them completely give up on such an important business market. That would be like SA)">UA giving up on ORD-LHR b/c SA)">AA/BA have such a large presence.

Quoting user444555 (Reply 103):
I am still hoping to see SA)">AA metal to SYD and AKL so they can add metal neutrality to the TPAC JBV. There is already enough OA competition on the route that one SA)">AA flight a day would not be unreasonable. They would not want to do it from DFW where their only competition is QF.

I heard a pilot rumor a few months ago(I know, I know, just about 0 legitimacy) mentioning SA)">AA was looking at doing LAX-AKL. Not a bad idea considering their only competition would be NZ and they could use their JBV with QF to make the route work.

Quoting user444555 (Reply 103):
SA)">AA cut intl flights at ORD. It used to be their gateway to Europe but hten SA)">AA cut ARN, BHX, BRU, FRA, MUC, MXP, and others I cannot recall. A merger would bring back some of these, but might not bring them back to ORD.

They also flew DME for a while, but that was cut as well. . . Parker seems adamant about bringing ORD back to life, he's made mention of it on a number of occasions. Hopefully if the merger goes through we will see this vision come to fruition. Pray for ORD.



I'm not complaining, I'm critiquing...
User currently offlineSuper80DFW From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 1697 posts, RR: 11
Reply 142, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 8808 times:

Quoting user444555 (Reply 134):

AA isn't running out of gate space just yet. The wide-body departures are spread out pretty well throughout the day. In the morning/early afternoon hours if AA is running short on space in Terminal D, they can tow a plane over to Terminal A or C for the OGG or HNL flights. I know they've done that on occasions when they have actually been short for one reason or another.

If anybody is interested in knowing.. The wide-body gates at DFW are: A23, A24, A34, C4, and C8 in the domestic terminals and in the International Terminal: D10, D11, D14, D15, D17, D18, D21, D22, D23, D25, D27, D29, D30, D33, and D36.



"Things change, friends leave, life doesn't stop for anybody." -- EAT'EM UP EAT'EM UP KSU!!
User currently offlineord2010 From United States of America, joined Sep 2013, 105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 143, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 8706 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 135):
ORD has very little connectivity to the South, Southeast, and certainly Latin America, particularly Mexico where a lot of manufacturing is moving and growing

There is a huge mexican population in Chicago ORD has service to nearly 10 mexican cities non stop, AM is resuming 2 cities soon and volaris filed to enter service into ORD as well as their well establish services to MDW, saying ORD has little connectivity to mexico is like saying MIA has little connectivity to Brazil.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 126):
ORD-PEK for AA has been in the dumps. ORD-PVG does much better than PEK.

ORD-PVG makes me laugh simply because both AA and UA leave at the same exact time of 10:45 am but I'm glad it is doing well! as for PEK its times were horrible out of ORD with AA, however around a month ago they got approved for a much better day time that will help with connection at PEK and hopefully make the route a lot more profitable.


User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2240 posts, RR: 15
Reply 144, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 8625 times:

Quoting max999 (Reply 133):
You wrote that you thought CX is 10 abreast so I wanted to show you that link to the seat map to get the facts straight.

I'm sorry about that.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 135):
ORD has very little connectivity to the South, Southeast, and certainly Latin America, particularly Mexico where a lot of manufacturing is moving and growing

  .

Quoting oc2dc (Reply 141):
SA)">AA's presence in FRA is ridiculous.

It's embarrassing, yes, but largely unpreventable prior to American's file for Ch. 11, when the ORDFRA route went down, along with ORDBRU and the rest. Cost structure couldn't support these routes, and Star Alliance simply crushed them running as high as 4x daily flights on ORDFRA.

Quoting oc2dc (Reply 141):
It hurts to see them completely give up on such an important business market. That would be like SA)">UA giving up on ORD-LHR

ORDLHR is actually 2.5x larger than ORDFRA.

Quoting oc2dc (Reply 141):
They also flew DME for a while, but that was cut as well. . . Parker seems adamant about bringing ORD back to life, he's made mention of it on a number of occasions. Hopefully if the merger goes through we will see this vision come to fruition. Pray for ORD.
DME was a disaster.

Put yourself in Parker's shoes for a second and consider the following in a post-merger scenario:

In rationalizing your network and determining which hub would serve as the optimal, dominant transatlantic gateway to Europe, which option sounds more appealing?

A). A Midwest, inner-coastal pre-merger American hub that has seen ASMs to Europe gradually decline over the years, is saturated with foreign carrier competition, not to mention a fairly dominant domestic US legacy carrier (UA) competing on many of the same routes, OR

B). An east coast, pre-merger US hub that offers nearly twice then numbers of ASMs to Europe, with numbers on the INCLINE over the years, virtually zero foreign carrier competition (BA being the only one), zero legacy carrier competition, and roughly a similar-sized domestic network (in terms of ASMs).

I think the choice is pretty logical.

Quoting ord2010 (Reply 143):
saying ORD has little connectivity to mexico is like saying MIA has little connectivity to Brazil.

Yeah, but you have to remember there are some key differences that substantiates what Maverick is trying to point out:

First, Chicago to Mexico traffic fluctuates cyclically based on season. December thru March, the market averages above 17,500 weekly seats. However, from April through November, the numbers drop below 11,000.

Second, roughly a third of that traffic comes from MDW, not ORD. So that rules out connections.

Third, Chicago to Mexico traffic from ORD is divided between UA, AA, AM and F9. Some of it is headed towards business markets like MEX, but a large majority is headed towards leisure/charter markets like PVR, CUN, SJD, etc.

Whereas, DFW averages above 25,000 ASMs to Mexico alone year-round (above 35,000 in peak season) and 95% of that is flown on AA metal.

And that's just Mexico  Smile Latin America in total from DFW is above 45,000 year-round.

MIA-Brasil varies between 25,000 and 28,000 weekly ASMs, depending on time of year.

[Edited 2013-10-17 14:25:05]


next flights: jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg, cdg-phl-msp
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17821 posts, RR: 46
Reply 145, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 8484 times:

Quoting ord2010 (Reply 143):
There is a huge mexican population in Chicago ORD has service to nearly 10 mexican cities non stop, AM is resuming 2 cities soon and volaris filed to enter service into ORD as well as their well establish services to MDW, saying ORD has little connectivity to mexico is like saying MIA has little connectivity to Brazil.

Of those markets only three are non leisure, and those markets tend to be local, super ethnic and the fares are for the most part dreadful. There is little to no connectivity between the Pacific flying and Latin flying over ORD either, compared to IAH/DFW/ and less so ATL where the two regions are much better connected with 3-5x as many seats to Mexico alone.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineuser444555 From United States of America, joined Aug 2013, 356 posts, RR: 0
Reply 146, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 8465 times:

Quoting Super80DFW (Reply 142):
AA isn't running out of gate space just yet. The wide-body departures are spread out pretty well throughout the day. In the morning/early afternoon hours if AA is running short on space in Terminal D, they can tow a plane over to Terminal A or C for the OGG or HNL flights. I know they've done that on occasions when they have actually been short for one reason or another.

If anybody is interested in knowing.. The wide-body gates at DFW are: A23, A24, A34, C4, and C8 in the domestic terminals and in the International Terminal: D10, D11, D14, D15, D17, D18, D21, D22, D23, D25, D27, D29, D30, D33, and D36.

I have to disagree that the flights are spread out during the day. There is the morning Asia/Hawaii complex and then not much until the European and South American flights start to leave around 1700. The last scheduled WB is QF after 2200 but all of AA's are scheduled to leave before 2200. I mentioned they could move the HNL, OGG and other domestic WB flights to A or C, but, those often involve an intl operation on the other end be that inbound or outbound. Not all of those flights are inbound domestics turning outbound domestics which would require the flight to be scheduled in Terminal D.

The gates you mention are correct. However D10-15 are AE and OA gates at the moment, and using some of the gates you mention requires the closing of some adjacent gates rendering the closed gate unusable for that time, and D21, D22 are currently set up only for 763's or smaller. I agree that AA is not out of space yet, but if things go OSO or OOS then there could be problems. I think AA would be wise to get D15 back. They could use D10 and D11 that AE now uses, but it would be more convenient for pax and AA to get adjacent gates. If they add any more new WB flights, I think they could use the room. Just my opinion though.

[Edited 2013-10-17 14:40:06]

[Edited 2013-10-17 14:48:58]

User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11966 posts, RR: 62
Reply 147, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 8436 times:

Quoting Super80DFW (Reply 142):
AA isn't running out of gate space just yet. The wide-body departures are spread out pretty well throughout the day. In the morning/early afternoon hours if AA is running short on space in Terminal D, they can tow a plane over to Terminal A or C for the OGG or HNL flights. I know they've done that on occasions when they have actually been short for one reason or another.

Yep. Sitting in the D AC a few weeks back I actually heard an announcement that FRA was going to be departing out of A. I actually thought I misheard it but looked at the board and sure enough, FRA was leaving out of A - guess they must have been totally packed in D that night (maybe another plane went tech or something).

Quoting user444555 (Reply 146):
There is the morning Asia/Hawaii complex and then not much until the European and South American flights start to leave around 1700.

There are other international flights between the morning and evening rush periods, although most are Canada/Mexico narrowbodies.

Quoting user444555 (Reply 146):
I mentioned they could move the HNL, OGG and other domestic WB flights to A or C, but, those often involve an intl operation on the other end be that inbound or outbound.

They already do lots of HNL/OGG arrivals/departures out of A/C as it is. Anecdotal, I know, but I actually can't remember the last time I saw a Hawaii flight leave out of D - it seems I almost always see those 767s sitting at A/C in the mornings now.

Quoting user444555 (Reply 146):
I agree that AA is not out of space yet, but if things go OSO or OOS then there could be problems.

Amazing considering that less than a decade ago when D opened it was called such a white elephant. Now? AA is almost running out of room!


User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17821 posts, RR: 46
Reply 148, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 8364 times: