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Thread For SAN Fans - Volume I  
User currently offlinelindy field From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 3118 posts, RR: 14
Posted (10 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 13993 times:
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Everyone else is doing it, why can't we? With the recent closure of another forum where San Diego locals and ex-locals used to discuss all sorts of minutiae related to aviation in San Diego, I thought I'd start a thread here to discuss what's new in SAN. In some ways a sleepy town overshadowed by all the activity at LAX, SAN has actually been doing quite well in recent years, at least by some measures.

We recently saw the opening of the expansion to Terminal 2 and United Airlines moved over from Terminal 1. I'm curious if anyone has traveled through the new part of the terminal and would like to share their experiences. Is there any word yet about other airlines moving from Terminals 1 to 2 or vice-versa? There's quite a bit of empty real estate at Terminal 1 now. How are the renovations there coming along?

We're also approaching the first year anniversary of nonstop service by Japan Airlines to NRT. Does anyone have any info on how the flight is performing?

For spotters, in this last month there seems to be a regular Friday afternoon FedEx flight operated by an MD-11, a new type to see regularly in SAN and a great add. Does anyone know if this is planned as a permanent or just seasonal change?

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Also, BA is moving their flight from LHR two hours earlier later this fall, so spotters should be able to catch the arrival in daylight for most of the winter. Next month we should also be able to see Alaska's CRJ-700 operated by SkyWest on the new flights to Boise.

Are there any other interesting developments or rumors about developments at SAN? Please discuss! Let's see if this thread can take on a life of its own.

203 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineWNCrew From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1457 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (10 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 13983 times:

I'd love to see some improvements in SPACE for terminal 1. It's so horrible crowded for the passengers with no room to move about. Would it be possible to build UP with a mezzanine level of seating that looked down upon the main level or something? Gates 1a&b and 2 are bad enough in their own way then you've got the round-about with it's own issues. I LOVE SAN and how much business we do there but it's really frustrating for the pax and you can tell, there's just so much foot traffic and nowhere for people to go.


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlinehawaiian717 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3192 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (10 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 13882 times:

I flew Delta out of the new gates about a week after they opened back in April. Quite nice, with lots of power outlets. And I saw the dog restroom. And the drinking fountains that also have the option to refill water bottles. Also went through the new checkpoint.

I'm not sure what the situation is now, but when I was there the older gates on the east side of T2W were closed and blocked by construction walls. So the views of the field from the new gates were pretty limited, since you could only see to the west, not the east.


User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4267 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (10 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 13856 times:
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I went through SAN on a mileage junket yesterday.

I sat and people-watched in a sunny area between gates 33 and 34 -- overlooking the baggage carousels. I had a latte -- the Peets Coffee's at SAN have gotten better (at the beginning, they were a piss-poor replacements for Starbucks). I looked for Calfornia wines on sale and couldn't find them anywhere in terminal 2.

Strange construction between gates 33 and 36, really narrowing the walk area.


User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 789 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (10 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 13751 times:
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Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 3):
Strange construction between gates 33 and 36, really narrowing the walk area.

I know somewhere in that area was the old skyclub for Delta. I know they must be using that space for more
shops or restaurants? Delta and United clubs are now in the new part of the terminal (Green build)

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 1):
I'd love to see some improvements in SPACE for terminal 1. It's so horrible crowded for the passengers with no room to move about.

SDIA was looking at plans to possibly tear down T-1 and rebuild it from the ground up. They were talking
about this because T-1 has been remodeled so much in the past that they can't remodel any more. T-1 was
built in 1967. When United moved over to the new T-2W, they had been at T-1 for nearly 45 years!

[Edited 2013-10-20 13:59:47]


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User currently offline777ord From United States of America, joined May 2010, 496 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (10 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 13657 times:

Moving from T1 to T2 both on an employee level for UA and most importantly, our customers is HUGE!!!!!

T1 is old, depressing and reminds me of being in a hampster cage. T2 has a LOT of amenities, great variety, comfort,space and good music, considering most airports dont have any. The giant glass window by the "bubbles" bistro is fantastic, especially from the United Club while enjoying yet another bloody marry :p.

Even though I help run a station in Southern CA for UA, I fly out of SAN since I live near by.

There were plans to get approval to move the UAX operation from commuter to some part of T2. The infrastructure is there, the manpower is DEFINITELY there. The issue was simply contract negotiations. (Could be more, but I am not privvy to that).

The biggest, most immediate difference a pax will see is the ease of going from the UA ticket counter to security. And, with ample space it makes the old T1 queue history.

The combining of ops with this opening is a huge milestone for that airport.

You know what'd be news for me? The residents in Point Loma allowing flights to take off before 0630. I'd rather have that mad rush spread out then every every minute from 0630. :p I used to live at Union/ Juniper just on the north side of the 5, and directly under 27 final approach and loved the jets screaming over. Even my neighbors who hate flying, enjoy it.

San has big plans for expansion, and as long as the tech industry is near by (Carlsbad/ La Jolla etc...), the military presence is big, and our tourism stays as strong SAN has tremendous prospects.

Can you tell I love my city!?

Does anyone know of any meet up groups? Like plane spotting type.


User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 789 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (10 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 13619 times:
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Quoting 777ord (Reply 5):
T1 is old, depressing and reminds me of being in a hampster cage.

I'd heard that when they built T-1 and T-2E (formerly west terminal) the idea was for arriving pax to
quickly grab their luggage from the baggage claim and be out the door. Everything changed since
T-2W was added. With all of the amenities available,pax are encouraged to stay longer in the terminal,
(like many modern airports).

It also seems as if we have been seeing new and different kinds of aircraft visiting SAN lately I'd like
to think the new terminal addition of T-2 had something to do with it. So far this year we've seen 787, 777-300,757-300,(JAL 777),I'd heard next year Jetblue will be sending their new A321 here.
I had been wondering since JAL just made that big Airbus order will we see a A350 instead of the 787?
The Fedex MD-11 is one I didn't know about!

[Edited 2013-10-20 17:14:02]

[Edited 2013-10-20 17:17:42]


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User currently offlinebw50505 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (10 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 13583 times:

Don't forget the the ATN 757-200CF that came in May and the FDX 767-300F that came earlier this October, each on FAA Proving flights.

Also, if JAL was to upgrade SAN-NRT, it would most likely go to a 787-9 before going to an A350-900, but it will hopefully eventually be able to support an A350-900.


User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 789 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (10 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 13565 times:
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Quoting bw50505 (Reply 7):
Don't forget the the ATN 757-200CF that came in May and the FDX 767-300F

I forgot about the Fedex 767 that came. What was the ATN 757? I didn't know about that one!



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User currently offlinebw50505 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (10 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 13538 times:

Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 8):
What was the ATN 757?

The ATN 757 was N752CX. And, since I just remembered, there are the occasional 767-400's that have/will come for the SD Chargers games. There was one here for the Texans-Chargers game on Sep. 9 and there will possibly be others for games on Nov. 10 and Dec. 8.


User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 789 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (10 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 13521 times:
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Quoting bw50505 (Reply 9):
The ATN 757 was N752CX.

Oh! it was an ATI 757! I remember when they used to fly DC-8s every day into
SAN. If that's the same Air Transport Int'l I'm thinking about.



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User currently offlinedrmlnr1 From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 85 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (10 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 13522 times:

I live so very close to SAN i can hear the roar of the engines. I recently took a class where a guest speaker was from SDIA and he said they will be tearing down and rebuilding T1 ant T2E. T2E has been upgraded majorly. There used to be no where to sit now there is plenty. T1 is so rundown, so old that I choose airlines not in T1 at all costs. T2 is nicer

[Edited 2013-10-20 18:55:20]


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User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 789 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (10 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 13501 times:
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Quoting drmlnr1 (Reply 11):
T2W has been upgraded majorly. There used to be no where to sit now there is plenty.

That would be T-2E. I haven't seen the new upgrades, but I remember all the seating on one side,but when it was built in 1979, it was the first area at SAN to have jetways.
I can understand why they would want to rebuild T2-E. It looks a lot like T-1
without the rotundas!


Quoting drmlnr1 (Reply 11):
I choose airlines not in T1 at all costs.

Since UA moved over to T-2W, the only airlines in T-1 now are AS and WN.



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User currently offlineJAAlbert From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1583 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (10 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 13469 times:

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 1):
Would it be possible to build UP with a mezzanine level of seating that looked down upon the main level or something? Gates 1a&b and 2 are bad enough in their own way then you've got the round-about with it's own issues.

Tear the building down and rebuild. No sense putting more money into that building.

Quoting 777ord (Reply 5):
T1 is old, depressing and reminds me of being in a hampster cage.

So true. It was designed for a lot less traffic. Especially if SWA is going to continue using that space, SAN needs a much larger, better functioning T-1.

Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 12):
I can understand why they would want to rebuild T2-E. It looks a lot like T-1
without the rotundas!

T2-E had this state-of-the-art design when first built. It had no waiting areas next to the gate. Rather, the terminal had a massive waiting area at the base of the terminal (just past where security was for so long). I guess the idea was all passengers would wait in the main waiting room until their flight was called and then trek down to the gate. As it turns out, people wanted to wait next to the gate, not a half mile away - and the airlines wanted their passengers closer too. An interesting idea, but not at all functional in the real world.


User currently offlineCALPSAFltSkeds From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 2619 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (10 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 13460 times:

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 1):
I'd love to see some improvements in SPACE for terminal 1. It's so horrible crowded for the passengers with no room to move about. Would it be possible to build UP with a mezzanine level of seating that looked down upon the main level or something?

I'm sure if SAN redoes T-1 it will be a major teardown/rebuild, but I like the possibility of rehabbing T-1. I don't think you can come up with a more efficient parking scheme for aircraft than the current one, especially being so close to the runway and the requirement for security area.

1.) If the concessions were moved from the center of the satellites, there should be enough room for expanded boarding areas.
2.) Expand the security screening to encompass the restaurants and shops on the first floor.
3.) Build concessions and shops above current ticket counters
4.) Secure area would allow transit between satellites without re-screening.

If you want to go big, move the ticket counters up a floor and add a second level passenger dropoff roadway, but that will get expensive.


User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 789 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (10 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 13431 times:
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I think the only problem the SDIA is facing is how to accommodate AS and WN while
T-1 is being demolished/rebuilt. tear it down in halves and have the airlines move to
one half while the other half is torn down and rebuilt. It would be a tight squeeze with
such limited space.

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 13):
T2-E had this state-of-the-art design when first built. It had no waiting areas next to the gate. Rather, the terminal had a massive waiting area at the base of the terminal (just past where security was for so long). I guess the idea was all passengers would wait in the main waiting room until their flight was called and then trek down to the gate.

That setup probably would have worked at an airport with a lot less traffic than traffic at SAN.
When they built T-2E, they probably didn't think the traffic would increase as much as
it has over the years.

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 14):
Secure area would allow transit between satellites without re-screening.

Maybe a walkway/bridge between rotundas located at the base of the rotundas just past security? That would be good for pax if they were connecting between AS and WN.



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User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 789 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (10 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 13415 times:
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Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 14):
I like the possibility of rehabbing T-1. I don't think you can come up with a more efficient parking scheme for aircraft than the current one, especially being so close to the runway and the requirement for security area.

I was thinking of a linear terminal, similar to the terminals at SNA or SJC.

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 14):
If you want to go big, move the ticket counters up a floor and add a second level passenger dropoff roadway, but that will get expensive.

That sounds like a duplicate of the new terminal (T-2W). They might duplicate T-2W,but with a linear
design. They would'nt have enough room for rotundas.



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User currently offlineCALPSAFltSkeds From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 2619 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (10 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 13383 times:

They could start with moving the cargo facilities or whatever they are between T-1 and the Commuter terminal. Move those to areas vacated by Ryan.

Then build a finger against the back of the commuter terminal. There should be about 840 feet, allowing seven 737NGs straight into the gates.

If the satellites were torn down, a linear terminal would provide approximately another 1800 feet, good enough for 15 more 737NGs for a total of 22 gates. That would be over a half mile of gates in a row (several hundred feet longer than midfield concourses in ATL) , a long walk for some connections. If the linear terminal was bumped out a bit where the current satellites are, there could be few more gates. While this could work, it leaves a huge empty ramp east of current satellites and only provide as few as 3 more gates than the 2 satellites do now.

If the basis of the satellites were kept, maybe build out to where the circle of the satellites meet the connector, the efficiencies of the gate setup would remain with lots more passenger servicing area in the terminal. Of course, SAN won't do this as they are interested in more grandiose solutions and seem to get the cash.


User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 789 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (10 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 13342 times:
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Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 17):
They could start with moving the cargo facilities or whatever they are between T-1 and the Commuter terminal. Move those to areas vacated by Ryan.

I never thought about moving the cargo facilities to the old Teledyne Ryan area.
(That's an interesting idea.I was thinking over to the North side.) the cargo area should be
moved to provide more space for a new terminal. I wonder if that's what the SDIA is thinking?

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 17):
That would be over a half mile of gates in a row (several hundred feet longer than midfield concourses in ATL) , a long walk for some connections.

That shouldn't be a big problem. Just install moving sidewalks in the
terminal to get to connecting flights quicker.

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 17):
SAN won't do this as they are interested in more grandiose solutions and seem to get the cash.

I have the same feeling they want a big terminal similar to T-2W.



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User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5515 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (10 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 13307 times:

Quoting lindy field (Thread starter):
With the recent closure of another forum where San Diego locals and ex-locals used to discuss all sorts of minutiae related to aviation in San Diego,

Curious what was it that recently closed?

Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 15):
I think the only problem the SDIA is facing is how to accommodate AS and WN while
T-1 is being demolished/rebuilt. tear it down in halves and have the airlines move to one half while the other half is torn down and rebuilt. It would be a tight squeeze with such limited space.

I think that only having the two carriers they can actually move them around. They would have to build the new one first to allow them to do anything though.

I have posted this link before, it has pretty much every option for Lindbergh. Pages 15 and 21 show what I think would be the most likely for the first step:
http://www.san.org/documents/amp/ado...iminaryConceptDev_V04-21-08_LR.pdf

I know I have seen other (more recent?) proposals that show a new T1 pushing south into the current parking lot (with another mufti-story garage replacing the lost capacity).

Quoting drmlnr1 (Reply 11):
a guest speaker was from SDIA and he said they will be tearing down and rebuilding T1 ant T2E.

On pg23 of the link above is only time I see the "ghost of T2E future".

Tugg



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User currently offlineJAAlbert From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1583 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (10 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 13299 times:

Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 16):
I was thinking of a linear terminal, similar to the terminals at SNA or SJC.

I think this is the solution that makes the most sense with the narrow lot they have to work with on the eastern end of the airport. I'd be interested in hearing thoughts on the desirability of a linear terminal. Such a design would result in a lot of walking - although getting to the end gates of T2-W is a bit of hike as well.

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 17):
They could start with moving the cargo facilities or whatever they are between T-1 and the Commuter terminal. Move those to areas vacated by Ryan.

I thought the master plan calls for the cargo facilities being moved to the other side of the runway, where FedEx has its operations. There is quite a bit of land out there with that massive car park.

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 17):
it leaves a huge empty ramp east of current satellites and only provide as few as 3 more gates than the 2 satellites do now.

I'm not sure SAN needs many more gates - what terminal 1 does need more of is space. When all those SWA flights are coming and going terminal 1 feels more like an ant hill than a place for human habitation. Waiting for a flight in that cramped area makes for a very stressful start to your journey.


User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 789 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (10 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 13193 times:
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Quoting tugger (Reply 19):
proposals that show a new T1 pushing south into the current parking lot (with another mufti-story garage replacing the lost capacity).


That's one of the biggest thing they need is a parking garage. I know one
was included in the Green Build, but was scrapped due to the residents in
Pt. Loma complaining about traffic/Noise on Harbor Dr. A parking garage
would free up a lot of land currently occupied by all the "Wally-Parks" and the
"Park-n-Fly" parking lots.

Quoting tugger (Reply 19):
On pg23 of the link above is only time I see the "ghost of T2E future".

If they rebuilt T-1 in this way, they could keep the current terminal operational until the new terminal
is built, similar to what they are doing at LAX with the new TBIT.



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User currently offlineCALPSAFltSkeds From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 2619 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (10 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 13082 times:

The second runway isn't going t0 fly. Tons of cash for only about a 15-20% increase in capacity. Ground traffic issues near the east end.
As for a linear terminal, remember the linked document is from 2008. Anything that parks aircraft east of the commuter terminal would be bad idea as aircraft would have to taxi back to their gate and pushbacks could be held for sequencing and outbound taxiing aircraft.
Figures 8-2, 8-4 and 8-6 are inefficient, waste space and create aircraft movements issues.
Figure 8-5 doesn't gain any gates.
Figures 8-10 and 8-7 might work, but don't level the satellites, instead enlarge the circle for concessions - don't know what that does for you - the issue is security area and to relocate the concessions above the ticket counters would be a better use of space.


User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 789 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (10 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 13046 times:
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The concept that keeps only the west rotunda, but linear to the east may work (is that figure 8-5?)
To gain more gates they could add a finger in an L shape up against the commuter terminal like you
mentioned earlier. I'm personally not in favor of demolishing the commuter terminal in favor of a big
terminal (that was the old PSA hangar and there's some history behind it) To have one big terminal
that extends far onto the Teledyne property is a little too much!

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 22):
The second runway isn't going t0 fly. Tons of cash for only about a 15-20% increase in capacity. Ground traffic issues near the east end.

I think there's also some historical landmarks at MCRD that they cannot raze for a new runway. That's IF the marines leave MCRD. I'd personally love to see them put in a new runway,but there's
no available land.

I was also looking at that same figure (8-5?) would allow T-1 to stay open while new section
is being built. The remaining west rotunda can be redone with expanded concessions, etc.
after the new section is built.

[Edited 2013-10-21 16:21:27]


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User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 789 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (10 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 13022 times:
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Quoting tugger (Reply 19):
With the recent closure of another forum where San Diego locals and ex-locals used to discuss all sorts of minutiae related to aviation in San Diego,

Curious what was it that recently closed?

The website was called Aviation Guru and they had a SAN forum that generated a lot of activity.
It suddenly shut down a few months ago for unknown reasons.

[Edited 2013-10-21 16:42:30]


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25 washingtonflyer : Why not situate a new linear international terminal at the old Ryan facility. Currently, you have daily (or nearly daily) service to NRT, LHR and seve
26 SANflyr : Might have been mentioned above, but I did not notice it. The next big project is the CONRAC. Consolidated Car Rental Facility. It looks like early gr
27 SANMAN66 : I'd heard that part of the demolition of the Teledyne site requires a cleanup of the site (old chemicals in the soil before they can build on it.) I
28 AM777LR : I would like to see more European flights, ie: FRA/AMS/CDG/MAD-SAN
29 Post contains images tugger : FYI, be aware that the "plans" in the link I provided are just the various possible options that they have looked at. They are not part of the any ad
30 Post contains links and images lindy field : Well, this thread has turned out well so far. I am a little bit surprised that a certain someone hasn't turned up yet... I figured that he could keep
31 SANMAN66 : I was trying to hold the fort down until he showed up (I sent him an instant message to invite him to participate in the post, but he hasn't responde
32 SANflyr : Yes and Yes. There was some very nasty stuff underground. Personally I think the T-R site would make a perfect location for a replacement Commuter Te
33 CALPSAFltSkeds : That Commuter Terminal is also the headquarters of the Regional Airport Authority. Don't think I't going anywhere, but they do like to spend money. T
34 SANMAN66 : And that would be arriving aircraft taxiing to the gates (at a Teledyne terminal) while departing aircraft from T-2 would be forced to share the same
35 washingtonflyer : So swap out the commuter terminal for an international terminal. The distance from taxiway B to Harbor Drive has to be nearly 2,000 feet near the comm
36 SANMAN66 : If they swapped the commuter terminal for an international one, how many gates could they fit in there?The commuter terminal has about four gates, bu
37 washingtonflyer : Im not suggesting a 1 for 1 swap in footprint, but noting that the siting of the commuter terminal and adjacent parking lot provides ample room for a
38 SANFan : Wow! What a great thread. There have been a couple of attempts over the last few years for an ongoing SAN-thread and they didn't go very far. I hope t
39 AAR90 : That is correct. Construction of "food court" area is ongoing as well as the hallway "upgrades" (floor tiles, ceiling, etc.). AA has been using gate
40 mercure1 : Yes that is image San Diego in general has overseas I think. Its basically a suburb of Los Angeles metro being so close. Everyone I know that visit S
41 SANMAN66 : Ever since SAN got flights to Japan,UK,Canada,and Mexico, in addition to Mexican flights from TIJ, the SAN area is slowly breaking out of that image.
42 washingtonflyer : One issue that you have with SAN is that it is a pure O/D city. Its not a Star Alliance gateway like LAX or SFO; its not a Skyteam gateway like ATL. A
43 SANMAN66 : I've been thinking another European hub before another Asian hub, maybe CDG or possibly AMS or FRA. The 787 is right sized aircraft.Also remember, Ja
44 washingtonflyer : Not having lived in SAN for quite a while....what is the middle eastern community like in SAN. Could you envision at flight on EY or EK from DXB? Can
45 SANMAN66 : We have a sizeable Chaldean community here in SD. I'd heard about 20 or 30,000. I don't think it's large enough to sustain a flight to the Middle Eas
46 lindy field : Bump! Well, to address some of the issues that have come up in the thread: To me it seems logical that once Terminal 2 is "fully armed and operational
47 SANMAN66 : I've heard that this is the reason why LH have not started service to SAN yet, is that they don't have the right-sized aircraft to do the job. LH has
48 mercure1 : So anyone have an idea of how many passengers (millions) utilize LAX and other Los Angeles basin airports as the gateway to San Diego? Certainly many
49 AM777LR : What about the A332? Does this aircraft not work for LH at SAN? Or the A343?
50 SANMAN66 : I've been thinking that the A332/33 may be a little too large for SAN. I know there's the rising terrain at the end of the runway, but I don't really
51 DCAYOW : The A330 is underpowered for the SAN departure. SAN requires high power to weight ratio engines. This limits the effective range of the A330 to basica
52 lindy field : I'll just pipe in to clarify that Lufthansa doesn't operate the A330-200 any more. With the A330-300s underpowered as DCAYOW mentioned, that leaves th
53 SANMAN66 : I was thinking that maybe we could see Condor starting up flights between SAN-FRA. There's also Thomas Cook, or Thomson Airways. I could realistically
54 Post contains images san88 : For the early part of the morning SAN had fog / low visibility. Saw something rare , occasionally SAN will operate dual operations on 9 & 27. I've
55 SANMAN66 : The HA A330 did a runway-9 takeoff? That's steep takeoff! I wonder if the JAL 787 could do a runway-9 takeoff? That's got to be an extremely rare occ
56 Post contains images san88 : Yes it was AWESOME! during the winter FOG is very common in SAN. I've actually been on a full HA 767 on 9 takeoff during heavy rain a few years ago.
57 Post contains links and images SANMAN66 : In the early to mid-80s UA used to run a daily SAN-LAX-HNL flight with a 747. I remember seeing the UA 747 do a runway-9 takeoff one day. I recall, it
58 CALPSAFltSkeds : With fog or strong Santa Ana winds, Runway 9 can rarely be the operational runway. If it is, some aircraft can't use 9 for departure, so they request
59 SANFan : I'm going to jump in here again for a quick post. (I'm in Panguitch, Utah tonight.) Just thought I'd mention that a few years ago (2007), the SDCRAA/S
60 lindy field : I have to admit that I would be quite surprised to see any SAN nonstops to Central or South America any time soon. I'm not aware of any particularly s
61 SANMAN66 : I thought the incentive program for new European flights would be available this year.
62 Post contains images AAR90 : I guess that depends upon your definition of "awesome" and "rare." Sat. morning I was asked if we could use Rwy-9 as that was the landing runway. Whi
63 Post contains links and images L0VE2FLY : I don't think that San Diego's proximity to LAX is the main reason for the lack of long haul services in SAN. LAX is not exactly in our backyard, it's
64 washingtonflyer : In all the years I've flown into and out of SAN, I've landed on 9 twice - once back in about 2003 and once last year. Both situations involved late mo
65 bjorn14 : How does everyone think the TIJ bridge will affect SAN?
66 L0VE2FLY : SAN-Mexico and maybe Central America flights will be affected the most, as for long haul and domestic flights there will be very little change, unles
67 Post contains images AM777LR : The terrain and the runway are the big restrictions. If it weren't for those two things, SAN would be more diverse. The only plane that would even re
68 SANMAN66 : AMs' flight to NRT from TIJ is only a fuel stop. It's a triangle route from MEX. The flight is nonstop NRT to MEX.Also I'd heard that people cannot b
69 AM777LR : True it does originate in MEX, but it is bookable from TIJ. I recently moved back to the States from the Tijuana area and while living down there, my
70 reality : Actually, the developers have never said what fee they have in mind. It might be $10, it might be $20, it might be $50. So whatever anyone has "heard
71 SANFan : The thing is, Mexico-bound flights from TIJ are attractive to some people in San Diego because they are domestic flights, and therefore, cheaper than
72 washingtonflyer : Perhaps PTY. I cannot think where else they could do this in Central/South America. Not GRU, not ECE, and not SCL.
73 washingtonflyer : FWIW, I found a County of San Diego publication which provides some info on demographic backgrounds of folks in the county. Other than the Hispanic po
74 Post contains links and images lindy field : It is kind of fun to dream about having exotic guests on a regular basis, isn't it? MyAviation.net photo: Photo © Alex Montano
75 AM777LR : It is complicated for non-mexican citizens crossing the border and flying internationally out of TIJ. At the border, they will have to go to the imig
76 bjorn14 : Any room at SAN for a new (established) carrier to have 15-20 flights a day?
77 SANMAN66 : I guess that could be a reason people fly from LAX, because of the cheaper flights. I figure another reason is that LAX is a Star Alliance,Skyteam, a
78 AM777LR : Yep, and the competition brings down prices. There like like 10 carriers on the LAX-NRT route and one on TIJ-NRT. AM can charge what they want and pe
79 SANFan : Absolutely! That'd be, what, 4 gates? No problem. (Whether at the CT or T2.) Do you know something the rest of us don't ?!?! Yours is a very intrigui
80 usctrojan18 : Any chance of new domestic service to SAN? If AS does move into T2, will they have any room to expand? If they do, which routes would they want to sta
81 bw50505 : N101FE is en route again as FX9047 MEM-SAN should arrive at around 0930 PDT.
82 lindy field : When I first saw the previous post, I didn't realize that it meant the FedEx is in SAN again today. Is this for training purposes again? Any reason wh
83 SANFan : Today has seen the inauguration of AS's newest route from Lindbergh Field - Boise! The inbound arrived at ~11:40 this morning and the plane will retur
84 remcor : Eh, it's not super complicated I think. I flew to BOG Colombia for vacation earlier this year via TIJ and the visa card at the airport is one more st
85 washingtonflyer : SAN-BOI in a turboprop? Wow.
86 SANFan : Yeah, it will be starting Dec 1 -- and appears to stay that way through February; in early March it looks like it might again become a CR7... Maybe a
87 Post contains links hawaiian717 : Flew into SAN around midday today (November 1). Noticed that the east side of T2W appears to be back in use, as United had aircraft parked at 38 and 3
88 bw50505 : DAL has flown their new B739 from DTW-SAN as DL833. It arrived at around 1020 PDT. Also, N101FE is probably here for FAA Proving again. Maybe SAN is o
89 Post contains links SANFan : Well, it happened today -- DL announces SEA-SAN starting next June! Here's the link to the thread: DL Launching SEA-PDX/SAN (by Triple7Lr Nov 3 2013 i
90 lindy field : Wow, perhaps I ought to go into prophecy-making. I'm a bit disappointed that the new flights will be on CRJs, but I'm glad to see the add. I don't rea
91 Post contains images SANFan : Okay Lindy, so now let's see how your "717" wish pans out! I don't even know if the a/c is in use on the w/c now but I would think DL could use a nic
92 SANMAN66 : It seemed Spirit was after AS when they added SAN-PDX and SAN-SJD. AS didn't blink much when they added PDX, now, it looks like Delta wants to go afte
93 Post contains images PHX787 : Sorry to be late for the SAN party Love SAN but never been there....love it on flight sims How's the JL doing there? I hear periodic upgauges to a 772
94 hhslax2 : Sitting in the new UA lounge with a partially obstructed view (palm trees and what I'm guessing is considered art in the way), I noticed all the UA pl
95 SANFan : Welcome to the thread, PHX' I wish I knew what the loads are like; I haven't found anything with the JL numbers. I wasn't aware of T7 upgrades but th
96 SANMAN66 : The only upgrades I know about is the 772 they brought in as a substitute when the FAA grounded the 787. Unless there has been upgrades since then. N
97 Post contains links and images AM777LR : Like mentioned in reply 96, it was only used for the months where the 787-8 what grounded. Unlike NH, who completely stopped service to SJC, JA conti
98 Post contains images SANFan : I guess as long as JL keeps the Crane flying daily in and out of Lindbergh, we should assume the loads are good! Speaking of Speedbird, the LFs contin
99 SANMAN66 : They are adding a mobile-lounge dock? I know they were talking about it. I wonder how many mobile-lounges are they going to add? The good thing about
100 Post contains images AAR90 : AA uses gate-26 for SAN-JFK morning departures (walked by it this morning). I parked there once... a few weeks ago. Somehow that is just wrong.... ma
101 Post contains images SANFan : AFAIK, L. There hasn't been much discussion about this lately at any of the board meetings -- they've been a bit pre-occupied with lots of other thin
102 SANMAN66 : Remember when JL started flights here last Dec. There were only four flights a week, with plans to go daily in March (before the 787 groundings). Now
103 SANFan : Yes, I think 26 is sort of an "overflow" gate. It was the one AS was using for a couple of months this past summer to help handle their peak summer s
104 PHX787 : Ah yes that's right. And IIRC it was cut back to 4x/week at that time? When did it go daily?
105 SANMAN66 : Actually, they were already four flights a week when they started in Dec.When they were using the 772 as a substitute, they cut the flights down to t
106 AAR90 : IRT gate-24, I didn't pay attention when walking past this morning, but will look again this afternoon. IRT RON acft, AA used to park three acft "off
107 SANFan : Hey AAR', thanks so much for the updates on T2E! It would be terrific if you could keep us updated on all that's happening in that terminal since you'
108 SANFan : I just saw something new regarding AS at SAN and wonder if anyone has any knowledge of what's going on. AS is apparently using a gate called "16B" now
109 washingtonflyer : Ya, could be that the move the jet bridge to accomodate one CR7 or Q400 and then use stairs through a door near the jetbridge to get to the other craf
110 JAAlbert : I've seen Rwy-9 departures occasionally, including just this past week. They typically occur during foggy weather and during the tail end of Pacific
111 Post contains images Silver1SWA : It's all very common, especially in the mornings this time of year. Does anyone know what's up with JAL today at SAN? They had two 787s here briefly
112 SANMAN66 : I was checking Flightaware and one is scheduled to leave tomorrow morning at 7:00am I assume that's the same one that was sitting on the ground all d
113 SANFan : Interesting. This same sort of thing happened 2 or 3 months ago didn't it? One flight was delayed and JL sent a second one; I remember the early morni
114 Post contains images AAR90 : According to the airport authority, I don't work there and they only very reluctantly grant AA permission to purchase employee parking for flight cre
115 SANMAN66 : When they finish with the Admiral's Club, Its' gotta be at the same caliber as the new United Club and the new Delta Skyclubs in T-2W. Those clubs ar
116 AAR90 : AA agents just told me the inbound returned to Tokyo so JAL flew two in the next day, but one had mechanical and spent an extra day here.
117 Post contains images SANFan : Thanks mucho for all the updates on several topics, AAR'. What a great source of info on things-SAN you are! 'Morning L-Man. Yes, I'm sure AA is wanti
118 Post contains images L0VE2FLY : That's exactly my point, on the bright side, SAN is doing much better than 2 years ago when we didn't have a single long haul flight. Which would mak
119 Post contains links PSAJet17 : Technically not SAN related: The FAA has told CPAir that they will NOT complete the review of the revised application until sometime in 2014. Story an
120 SANMAN66 : I was kind of wondering about them lately. I was up in Carlsbad a couple nights ago and I drove past CLD. I really hope they get more airlines there.
121 AM777LR : LOL! I wish I was 13-15! Thanks for notifying me about that![Edited 2013-11-11 19:03:22]
122 SANFan : Well, with the AA/US merger taking a giant leap forward, what do those of us here -- in San Diego and/or working this thread -- think will happen at S
123 SANFan : I feel like I'm talking to myself here but my main question (from my preceding post) has now been answered (on the 'AA/US Merger'-thread.) This was po
124 SANMAN66 : I never had any kind of worries that the SAN-DCA flight would go away as a result of the AA/US merger. The only worry I had if the flight was not gen
125 SANFan : I'm just the opposite. I didn't worry much that the flight would be profitable or successful -- although I always believed that it would have done ev
126 AAR90 : AA began LAX-DCA using 752s but changed to 738s quite a few months ago when AA purchased 27K thrust use at "additional" airports (DCA-LAX flying bein
127 Post contains links and images lindy field : I would assume that SAN-DCA will stay for the time being and into the future. I have noticed that of late UA has been operating a 753 frequently on it
128 Post contains images usctrojan18 : Well, I did not expect this thread to go on this long. Great to see all the SAN fans on this website . Also on the DCA topic, I was really pulling for
129 SANFan : I was thinking about this last night and came up with a fantasy list of a couple of things that would be wonderful to see AA add. I'd really like to
130 SANFan : I've also noticed a few 753s showing up on UA's schedules lately. I wonder if we might see more of their larger a/c now that they are op'ing out of t
131 Post contains images SANMAN66 : That's really interesting! Remember when DL was bringing in 753s a few months ago? It may be those new gates in T-2W that are allowing 753s these day
132 hawaiian717 : I was on the east coast this week and flew back today, getting into SAN around 12:30. Noticed a few things. Allegiant 757 was parked at Landmark. Saw
133 atcgod : That's correct...the CRJ2 comes in from PDX and then departs for SAN. It also returns to PDX after arriving from SAN. If they are moving to a Q400 as
134 SANFan : Thanks for all the sightings D. I wonder if that G4 757 was a revenue flight or ferry or charter... Interesting especially since we don't see any sch
135 Post contains links hawaiian717 : Considering it was parked at Landmark Aviation and not the terminal, I'm thinking it was a charter. Came in as AAY4401 at 10:00am and left as AAY4402
136 SANFan : Maybe a college sports charter. That's great to hear. What a strange "seasonal" schedule they're working here. The BLI-SAN service ended in mid-Augus
137 JAAlbert : A quick hop or two to Palm Springs would be nice! I played around with a couple of dummy bookings on the JAL site between SAN and NRT. In economy, a
138 san88 : I'm assuming its SDSU, Aztecs are playing University of Hawaii at Manoa tonight 11/16
139 Post contains images SANFan : And I even went to SDSU's sports page and somehow missed it! I better get myself some new glasses or a new brain... Thanks for finding that. I'm amaz
140 L0VE2FLY : I suggest using the title "San Diego Aviation Thread" for future/follow-up threads.
141 CdnCactus : Just chiming in: I went through SAN Terminal 2 to catch the United flight to SFO yesterday. Very impressed by what I saw. Clean, airy, easy to navigat
142 SANFan : Seasonal? There's NO seasonal, no service at all, these days between YVR and SAN. I don't know if there is an available source for US-Canada air traf
143 CdnCactus : Didn't AC used to have non-stop flight to SAN, or am I showing my age again. Problem with taking mainly AC and WS flights is that eventually it's all
144 SANFan : Yes, AC flew daily, year-'round, nonstop service between SAN and YVR from Dec 2005 until Oct 2012 - almost 7 years without interruption or major chan
145 Post contains links and images point2point : For 2011, the total daily traffic between SAN-YVR is 169 pax, or about 85 PDEW. This I think is enough for some carrier to have a daily flights betwe
146 SANMAN66 : I figure the reason WS can make YVR work from SNA is Disneyland traffic? Keep in mind WS could not make Calgary work from SNA but works fine from SAN
147 SANFan : Ah, thanx so much for that p2p. Yes, and it seems AC had the perfect plane for that kind of traffic in the E190. But if not, why not d/g the route to
148 SANMAN66 : I'm sure they do "bb" but I can remember when AC and WS were both doing SAN-YYC, Calgary was advertising themselves in SAN as a Rodeo/Western destina
149 Post contains images SANFan : But the thing is there's no evidence that SAN-YVR was not getting pax on board. Sure, we don't know the yields or other economics involved or even wh
150 Post contains images CdnCactus : Oh, I thoroughly enjoyed my weekend in San Diego, and there are still plenty to see and do so I plan to return soon. (No I don't care for the desert -
151 Post contains images point2point : YW I wonder if the restrictions that Canada placed on Mexican (maybe from Tijuana that filled a few seats?) travelers (wasn't there something to that
152 Post contains links SANFan : Incentives SAN has. Subsidies, I doubt. My understanding is that SAN has never had or used them before. But SAN's North America Incentive Program is
153 Post contains links and images redrooster3 : Heads up guys! British airways flight 273 is using a 777-300ER (77W) today! Registration number is G-STBD http://flightaware.com/live/flight/G...D/his
154 SANMAN66 : Wow! Is this the first time BA brought a 773 to SAN? I wonder why the larger plane? Unfortunately, I won't be able to make it. But be sure to take som
155 bw50505 : Yes, it is the first time BA has brought in a different jet other than the 772 since this route resumed. On a side note, this is the second 77W to ev
156 Post contains images MesaFlyGuy : See I posted that in a new thread in September when I noticed that on AS' website and the general answer I got was that either A) I was misreading th
157 Post contains images san88 : If she had arrived on-time at 5pm it would have been a perfect shot. She was running about 15 mins late and it came out dark on my video camera
158 Silver1SWA : I stuck around after my shift to get some photos. Not happy with them due to vehicle clutter. Got one of her departing but it's not very good in qual
159 SANFan : Nice catch red'! I'm not in town so I had no chance to get to Lindbergh to see the event but I hope there will be some pix from someone. My main ques
160 Tristarsteve : No sorry. It was all due to a B772 not coming out of the hangar in CWL on time, and in the general shuffle to accomodate it, SAN got the B773 because
161 SANFan : Ahhhh! Oh well, I can dream anyway. In fact, I kind of wondered when I checked (on FlightAware) on the inbound a/c used for the LHR-SAN flight on Sun
162 Post contains links and images Silver1SWA : Here's my photo from last night. British Airways Boeing 777-300/ER - San Diego by Silver1SWA (Ryan Pastorino), on Flickr
163 bw50505 : Does anyone know what's going on at SAN right now? There are some weird holding patterns, and flight aware indicates it is not because of weather.
164 bw50505 : Great shot!!! Thanks for sharing.
165 Silver1SWA : A small plane was stuck on the runway for about 30 minutes. From a distance I could see it leaning so I'm guessing some kind of landing gear issue. B
166 Post contains links and images SANFan : OMG Ryan! That's a beautiful shot of Speedbird! Is she just arriving at the gate? Thanks so much for getting that and sharing it! (I'm glad that appar
167 777ord : I saw the BA 773 from balboa park the other night! I was like "Honey! a new plane type into SAN!" Followed by a " that's nice..... Yawn" lol. I am get
168 SANMAN66 : You pretty much said what I wanted to say bb. I've given up on PAL serving SAN. When PAL dropped LAS, I gave up hope. Although if PAL started up SAN-Y
169 Silver1SWA : Bird strikes are fairly common here in San Diego. WN had one yesterday.
170 SANMAN66 : Not to mention the Least Tern bird sanctuary right on airport grounds! So far no bird has been sucked into an engine as of yet.
171 777ord : That's what I heard and meant. Heck, I had 2 bird strikes in a 172 last year alone! Something about CRQ being a former landfill.... But man I love th
172 Post contains images MesaFlyGuy : Hey I have a question that maybe you guys can help me with. I am wondering, are all fligts to LAX required to go through the commuter terminal or did
173 SANMAN66 : I was working up in Carlsbad the other night and the runway/ILS at CRQ was all lit up. When you come down Palomar Airport Road from the East, you can
174 SANFan : Yes, all flights to LAX go thru the CT. (Plus Seaport ti IPL lives at the CT.) I think it's sort of a mutual understanding between the 3 cx and the a
175 Post contains links hawaiian717 : Bird strike tonight was Delta 2078, bound for SLC. http://www.sandiego6.com/story/fligh...landing-after-bird-strike-20131125
176 L0VE2FLY : It's interesting that DL think they can fill 8 CR9s daily on the well served SAN-SEA/PDX routes but not a single CR9 to YVR where there's zero compet
177 Post contains images MesaFlyGuy : Thanks! I figured this thread would be the best place to get that question answered! And I could've sworn I saw WN on flightaware that WN had flights
178 SANMAN66 : I posted in another thread about when PR applied for SAN-YVR-MNL in 2008, (they don't seem interested now.) but if PR started up SAN-YVR-MNL, they co
179 Post contains images L0VE2FLY : Did the Philippine get upgraded back to category 1 by the FAA? If so, then SAN-YVR-MNL would be a no brainer, San Diego has a large Filipino diaspora
180 SANMAN66 : In another post it seems as if they will be upgraded back to CAT-1 very soon, but it seems as if the talk over the past couple of years has been cent
181 Post contains images SANFan : It would be wonderful to see but as I mentioned in an earlier post, PR's YYZ (via YVR) service is op'ing 3x weekly on the winter schedule and there a
182 hawaiian717 : Perhaps you saw repositioning flights after fog-induced diversions from SAN to LAX?
183 Post contains images MesaFlyGuy : I think that IS what I saw. Thanks!
184 Post contains links bw50505 : Another MD-11F is on its way to SAN, for extra capacity: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/F...2/history/20131201/2330Z/KMEM/KSAN Tail is N574FE. I'm
185 Post contains links redrooster3 : This MD-11 is also following an add on 767-300F: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/F...3/history/20131201/2205Z/KMEM/KSAN So thats three planes toni
186 Post contains links and images bw50505 : Everything flying this direction over New Mexico and Arizona was at 26000 ft because of the jet stream today. Courtesy of http://squall.sfsu.edu/gif/
187 bjorn14 : Would PR have 5th freedom rights on a MNL-YVR-SAN run? I've heard Canada is very stingy with those. BTW , how is K5 doing on the IPL route?
188 SANFan : Again, the route app from January 2008 made it clear that they wanted authority to carry between YVR and SAN: Of course Canada has to approve that an
189 Post contains links and images lindy field : Thanks for the update, bb. I was going to chime in to note that for the last couple of days, FedEx has sent in 2 767s and an MD-11 in the morning for
190 bw50505 : I am also wondering the same thing. I think we will see 767s from FedEx into the near future, and maybe even MD11s, if there has been a change in car
191 C767P : It was. They did a number of proving runs to SAN with the 767 and the FRF was MEM-SAN.
192 cylw : Heads up SAN Fans, WestJet 1564 on 06DEC is scheduled to be operated by Tail 812 (new Disney livery/#magicplane)
193 SANMAN66 : The surprises just keep on coming! It seems this whole year new planes been visiting SAN. The Westjet Disney plane is still going in an active thread
194 cylw : Yep it's only in its 3rd day of sked flying since the re-paint. It's only done: YYC-MCO-YYC YYC-YYC (Photo Flight) YYC-YYZ YYZ-CUN-YYC
195 SANFan : What a gorgeous airplane! And she's a 738 to boot. I sure hope someone might be able to snap a couple of pix tomorrow; Friday's arrival is supposed t
196 SANMAN66 : I just read in another post that AS is going on the offensive against DL. AS announced SAN-SLC starting June of next year! It also includes LAX and SJ
197 SANFan : Setting the DL vs. AS debate aside, I see this as very exciting news here. This is officially AS's 15th destination from SAN -- at least -- and based
198 SANMAN66 : It kind of goes back to what I mentioned earlier. AS or WS needs to jump on SAN-YVR asap! I just have a feeling that DL might show up with SAN-YVR po
199 SANFan : This would surprise me a lot -- to see DL add any p-2-p flying at SAN. Not that I wouldn't love to see ANYONE start flying between here and YVR. But
200 lindy field : I'll just chime in to say that I would expect that any SAN-YVR service is likely to come from WestJet, or Alaska, or even Air Canada recognizing the e
201 Post contains images SANMAN66 : Is it a NFL charter for the Chargers? The reason I keep mentioning Delta is that DL seems to be all over the map these days. I wouldn't be all surpri
202 SANFan : I think AS has a much bigger loyalty base here now than Blue, particularly several years ago. AS now serves 14-15 destinations with almost 25 daily d
203 Post contains links SANFan : Since we've reached over 200 posts here, Volume 2 has been opened and may be found here: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume 2 (by SANFan Dec 13 2013 in Civi
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