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Thread For SAN Fans - Volume I  
User currently offlinelindy field From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 3116 posts, RR: 14
Posted (9 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 13928 times:
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Everyone else is doing it, why can't we? With the recent closure of another forum where San Diego locals and ex-locals used to discuss all sorts of minutiae related to aviation in San Diego, I thought I'd start a thread here to discuss what's new in SAN. In some ways a sleepy town overshadowed by all the activity at LAX, SAN has actually been doing quite well in recent years, at least by some measures.

We recently saw the opening of the expansion to Terminal 2 and United Airlines moved over from Terminal 1. I'm curious if anyone has traveled through the new part of the terminal and would like to share their experiences. Is there any word yet about other airlines moving from Terminals 1 to 2 or vice-versa? There's quite a bit of empty real estate at Terminal 1 now. How are the renovations there coming along?

We're also approaching the first year anniversary of nonstop service by Japan Airlines to NRT. Does anyone have any info on how the flight is performing?

For spotters, in this last month there seems to be a regular Friday afternoon FedEx flight operated by an MD-11, a new type to see regularly in SAN and a great add. Does anyone know if this is planned as a permanent or just seasonal change?

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Photo © PlaneSpotterIII



Also, BA is moving their flight from LHR two hours earlier later this fall, so spotters should be able to catch the arrival in daylight for most of the winter. Next month we should also be able to see Alaska's CRJ-700 operated by SkyWest on the new flights to Boise.

Are there any other interesting developments or rumors about developments at SAN? Please discuss! Let's see if this thread can take on a life of its own.

203 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineWNCrew From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1444 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (9 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 13918 times:

I'd love to see some improvements in SPACE for terminal 1. It's so horrible crowded for the passengers with no room to move about. Would it be possible to build UP with a mezzanine level of seating that looked down upon the main level or something? Gates 1a&b and 2 are bad enough in their own way then you've got the round-about with it's own issues. I LOVE SAN and how much business we do there but it's really frustrating for the pax and you can tell, there's just so much foot traffic and nowhere for people to go.


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlinehawaiian717 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3188 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (9 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 13817 times:

I flew Delta out of the new gates about a week after they opened back in April. Quite nice, with lots of power outlets. And I saw the dog restroom. And the drinking fountains that also have the option to refill water bottles. Also went through the new checkpoint.

I'm not sure what the situation is now, but when I was there the older gates on the east side of T2W were closed and blocked by construction walls. So the views of the field from the new gates were pretty limited, since you could only see to the west, not the east.


User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4238 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (9 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 13791 times:
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I went through SAN on a mileage junket yesterday.

I sat and people-watched in a sunny area between gates 33 and 34 -- overlooking the baggage carousels. I had a latte -- the Peets Coffee's at SAN have gotten better (at the beginning, they were a piss-poor replacements for Starbucks). I looked for Calfornia wines on sale and couldn't find them anywhere in terminal 2.

Strange construction between gates 33 and 36, really narrowing the walk area.


User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 785 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (9 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 13686 times:
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Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 3):
Strange construction between gates 33 and 36, really narrowing the walk area.

I know somewhere in that area was the old skyclub for Delta. I know they must be using that space for more
shops or restaurants? Delta and United clubs are now in the new part of the terminal (Green build)

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 1):
I'd love to see some improvements in SPACE for terminal 1. It's so horrible crowded for the passengers with no room to move about.

SDIA was looking at plans to possibly tear down T-1 and rebuild it from the ground up. They were talking
about this because T-1 has been remodeled so much in the past that they can't remodel any more. T-1 was
built in 1967. When United moved over to the new T-2W, they had been at T-1 for nearly 45 years!

[Edited 2013-10-20 13:59:47]


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User currently offline777ord From United States of America, joined May 2010, 489 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (9 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 13592 times:

Moving from T1 to T2 both on an employee level for UA and most importantly, our customers is HUGE!!!!!

T1 is old, depressing and reminds me of being in a hampster cage. T2 has a LOT of amenities, great variety, comfort,space and good music, considering most airports dont have any. The giant glass window by the "bubbles" bistro is fantastic, especially from the United Club while enjoying yet another bloody marry :p.

Even though I help run a station in Southern CA for UA, I fly out of SAN since I live near by.

There were plans to get approval to move the UAX operation from commuter to some part of T2. The infrastructure is there, the manpower is DEFINITELY there. The issue was simply contract negotiations. (Could be more, but I am not privvy to that).

The biggest, most immediate difference a pax will see is the ease of going from the UA ticket counter to security. And, with ample space it makes the old T1 queue history.

The combining of ops with this opening is a huge milestone for that airport.

You know what'd be news for me? The residents in Point Loma allowing flights to take off before 0630. I'd rather have that mad rush spread out then every every minute from 0630. :p I used to live at Union/ Juniper just on the north side of the 5, and directly under 27 final approach and loved the jets screaming over. Even my neighbors who hate flying, enjoy it.

San has big plans for expansion, and as long as the tech industry is near by (Carlsbad/ La Jolla etc...), the military presence is big, and our tourism stays as strong SAN has tremendous prospects.

Can you tell I love my city!?

Does anyone know of any meet up groups? Like plane spotting type.


User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 785 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (9 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 13554 times:
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Quoting 777ord (Reply 5):
T1 is old, depressing and reminds me of being in a hampster cage.

I'd heard that when they built T-1 and T-2E (formerly west terminal) the idea was for arriving pax to
quickly grab their luggage from the baggage claim and be out the door. Everything changed since
T-2W was added. With all of the amenities available,pax are encouraged to stay longer in the terminal,
(like many modern airports).

It also seems as if we have been seeing new and different kinds of aircraft visiting SAN lately I'd like
to think the new terminal addition of T-2 had something to do with it. So far this year we've seen 787, 777-300,757-300,(JAL 777),I'd heard next year Jetblue will be sending their new A321 here.
I had been wondering since JAL just made that big Airbus order will we see a A350 instead of the 787?
The Fedex MD-11 is one I didn't know about!

[Edited 2013-10-20 17:14:02]

[Edited 2013-10-20 17:17:42]


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User currently offlinebw50505 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 101 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 13518 times:

Don't forget the the ATN 757-200CF that came in May and the FDX 767-300F that came earlier this October, each on FAA Proving flights.

Also, if JAL was to upgrade SAN-NRT, it would most likely go to a 787-9 before going to an A350-900, but it will hopefully eventually be able to support an A350-900.


User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 785 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (9 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 13500 times:
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Quoting bw50505 (Reply 7):
Don't forget the the ATN 757-200CF that came in May and the FDX 767-300F

I forgot about the Fedex 767 that came. What was the ATN 757? I didn't know about that one!



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User currently offlinebw50505 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 101 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (9 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 13473 times:

Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 8):
What was the ATN 757?

The ATN 757 was N752CX. And, since I just remembered, there are the occasional 767-400's that have/will come for the SD Chargers games. There was one here for the Texans-Chargers game on Sep. 9 and there will possibly be others for games on Nov. 10 and Dec. 8.


User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 785 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (9 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 13456 times:
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Quoting bw50505 (Reply 9):
The ATN 757 was N752CX.

Oh! it was an ATI 757! I remember when they used to fly DC-8s every day into
SAN. If that's the same Air Transport Int'l I'm thinking about.



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User currently offlinedrmlnr1 From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 84 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 13457 times:

I live so very close to SAN i can hear the roar of the engines. I recently took a class where a guest speaker was from SDIA and he said they will be tearing down and rebuilding T1 ant T2E. T2E has been upgraded majorly. There used to be no where to sit now there is plenty. T1 is so rundown, so old that I choose airlines not in T1 at all costs. T2 is nicer

[Edited 2013-10-20 18:55:20]


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User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 785 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (9 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 13436 times:
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Quoting drmlnr1 (Reply 11):
T2W has been upgraded majorly. There used to be no where to sit now there is plenty.

That would be T-2E. I haven't seen the new upgrades, but I remember all the seating on one side,but when it was built in 1979, it was the first area at SAN to have jetways.
I can understand why they would want to rebuild T2-E. It looks a lot like T-1
without the rotundas!


Quoting drmlnr1 (Reply 11):
I choose airlines not in T1 at all costs.

Since UA moved over to T-2W, the only airlines in T-1 now are AS and WN.



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User currently offlineJAAlbert From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1553 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (9 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 13404 times:

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 1):
Would it be possible to build UP with a mezzanine level of seating that looked down upon the main level or something? Gates 1a&b and 2 are bad enough in their own way then you've got the round-about with it's own issues.

Tear the building down and rebuild. No sense putting more money into that building.

Quoting 777ord (Reply 5):
T1 is old, depressing and reminds me of being in a hampster cage.

So true. It was designed for a lot less traffic. Especially if SWA is going to continue using that space, SAN needs a much larger, better functioning T-1.

Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 12):
I can understand why they would want to rebuild T2-E. It looks a lot like T-1
without the rotundas!

T2-E had this state-of-the-art design when first built. It had no waiting areas next to the gate. Rather, the terminal had a massive waiting area at the base of the terminal (just past where security was for so long). I guess the idea was all passengers would wait in the main waiting room until their flight was called and then trek down to the gate. As it turns out, people wanted to wait next to the gate, not a half mile away - and the airlines wanted their passengers closer too. An interesting idea, but not at all functional in the real world.


User currently offlineCALPSAFltSkeds From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 2584 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (9 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 13395 times:

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 1):
I'd love to see some improvements in SPACE for terminal 1. It's so horrible crowded for the passengers with no room to move about. Would it be possible to build UP with a mezzanine level of seating that looked down upon the main level or something?

I'm sure if SAN redoes T-1 it will be a major teardown/rebuild, but I like the possibility of rehabbing T-1. I don't think you can come up with a more efficient parking scheme for aircraft than the current one, especially being so close to the runway and the requirement for security area.

1.) If the concessions were moved from the center of the satellites, there should be enough room for expanded boarding areas.
2.) Expand the security screening to encompass the restaurants and shops on the first floor.
3.) Build concessions and shops above current ticket counters
4.) Secure area would allow transit between satellites without re-screening.

If you want to go big, move the ticket counters up a floor and add a second level passenger dropoff roadway, but that will get expensive.


User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 785 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (9 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 13366 times:
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I think the only problem the SDIA is facing is how to accommodate AS and WN while
T-1 is being demolished/rebuilt. tear it down in halves and have the airlines move to
one half while the other half is torn down and rebuilt. It would be a tight squeeze with
such limited space.

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 13):
T2-E had this state-of-the-art design when first built. It had no waiting areas next to the gate. Rather, the terminal had a massive waiting area at the base of the terminal (just past where security was for so long). I guess the idea was all passengers would wait in the main waiting room until their flight was called and then trek down to the gate.

That setup probably would have worked at an airport with a lot less traffic than traffic at SAN.
When they built T-2E, they probably didn't think the traffic would increase as much as
it has over the years.

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 14):
Secure area would allow transit between satellites without re-screening.

Maybe a walkway/bridge between rotundas located at the base of the rotundas just past security? That would be good for pax if they were connecting between AS and WN.



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User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 785 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (9 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 13350 times:
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Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 14):
I like the possibility of rehabbing T-1. I don't think you can come up with a more efficient parking scheme for aircraft than the current one, especially being so close to the runway and the requirement for security area.

I was thinking of a linear terminal, similar to the terminals at SNA or SJC.

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 14):
If you want to go big, move the ticket counters up a floor and add a second level passenger dropoff roadway, but that will get expensive.

That sounds like a duplicate of the new terminal (T-2W). They might duplicate T-2W,but with a linear
design. They would'nt have enough room for rotundas.



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User currently offlineCALPSAFltSkeds From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 2584 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (9 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 13318 times:

They could start with moving the cargo facilities or whatever they are between T-1 and the Commuter terminal. Move those to areas vacated by Ryan.

Then build a finger against the back of the commuter terminal. There should be about 840 feet, allowing seven 737NGs straight into the gates.

If the satellites were torn down, a linear terminal would provide approximately another 1800 feet, good enough for 15 more 737NGs for a total of 22 gates. That would be over a half mile of gates in a row (several hundred feet longer than midfield concourses in ATL) , a long walk for some connections. If the linear terminal was bumped out a bit where the current satellites are, there could be few more gates. While this could work, it leaves a huge empty ramp east of current satellites and only provide as few as 3 more gates than the 2 satellites do now.

If the basis of the satellites were kept, maybe build out to where the circle of the satellites meet the connector, the efficiencies of the gate setup would remain with lots more passenger servicing area in the terminal. Of course, SAN won't do this as they are interested in more grandiose solutions and seem to get the cash.


User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 785 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (9 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 13277 times:
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Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 17):
They could start with moving the cargo facilities or whatever they are between T-1 and the Commuter terminal. Move those to areas vacated by Ryan.

I never thought about moving the cargo facilities to the old Teledyne Ryan area.
(That's an interesting idea.I was thinking over to the North side.) the cargo area should be
moved to provide more space for a new terminal. I wonder if that's what the SDIA is thinking?

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 17):
That would be over a half mile of gates in a row (several hundred feet longer than midfield concourses in ATL) , a long walk for some connections.

That shouldn't be a big problem. Just install moving sidewalks in the
terminal to get to connecting flights quicker.

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 17):
SAN won't do this as they are interested in more grandiose solutions and seem to get the cash.

I have the same feeling they want a big terminal similar to T-2W.



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User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5419 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (9 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 13242 times:

Quoting lindy field (Thread starter):
With the recent closure of another forum where San Diego locals and ex-locals used to discuss all sorts of minutiae related to aviation in San Diego,

Curious what was it that recently closed?

Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 15):
I think the only problem the SDIA is facing is how to accommodate AS and WN while
T-1 is being demolished/rebuilt. tear it down in halves and have the airlines move to one half while the other half is torn down and rebuilt. It would be a tight squeeze with such limited space.

I think that only having the two carriers they can actually move them around. They would have to build the new one first to allow them to do anything though.

I have posted this link before, it has pretty much every option for Lindbergh. Pages 15 and 21 show what I think would be the most likely for the first step:
http://www.san.org/documents/amp/ado...iminaryConceptDev_V04-21-08_LR.pdf

I know I have seen other (more recent?) proposals that show a new T1 pushing south into the current parking lot (with another mufti-story garage replacing the lost capacity).

Quoting drmlnr1 (Reply 11):
a guest speaker was from SDIA and he said they will be tearing down and rebuilding T1 ant T2E.

On pg23 of the link above is only time I see the "ghost of T2E future".

Tugg



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User currently offlineJAAlbert From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1553 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (9 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 13234 times:

Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 16):
I was thinking of a linear terminal, similar to the terminals at SNA or SJC.

I think this is the solution that makes the most sense with the narrow lot they have to work with on the eastern end of the airport. I'd be interested in hearing thoughts on the desirability of a linear terminal. Such a design would result in a lot of walking - although getting to the end gates of T2-W is a bit of hike as well.

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 17):
They could start with moving the cargo facilities or whatever they are between T-1 and the Commuter terminal. Move those to areas vacated by Ryan.

I thought the master plan calls for the cargo facilities being moved to the other side of the runway, where FedEx has its operations. There is quite a bit of land out there with that massive car park.

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 17):
it leaves a huge empty ramp east of current satellites and only provide as few as 3 more gates than the 2 satellites do now.

I'm not sure SAN needs many more gates - what terminal 1 does need more of is space. When all those SWA flights are coming and going terminal 1 feels more like an ant hill than a place for human habitation. Waiting for a flight in that cramped area makes for a very stressful start to your journey.


User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 785 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (9 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 13128 times:
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Quoting tugger (Reply 19):
proposals that show a new T1 pushing south into the current parking lot (with another mufti-story garage replacing the lost capacity).


That's one of the biggest thing they need is a parking garage. I know one
was included in the Green Build, but was scrapped due to the residents in
Pt. Loma complaining about traffic/Noise on Harbor Dr. A parking garage
would free up a lot of land currently occupied by all the "Wally-Parks" and the
"Park-n-Fly" parking lots.

Quoting tugger (Reply 19):
On pg23 of the link above is only time I see the "ghost of T2E future".

If they rebuilt T-1 in this way, they could keep the current terminal operational until the new terminal
is built, similar to what they are doing at LAX with the new TBIT.



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User currently offlineCALPSAFltSkeds From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 2584 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (9 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 13017 times:

The second runway isn't going t0 fly. Tons of cash for only about a 15-20% increase in capacity. Ground traffic issues near the east end.
As for a linear terminal, remember the linked document is from 2008. Anything that parks aircraft east of the commuter terminal would be bad idea as aircraft would have to taxi back to their gate and pushbacks could be held for sequencing and outbound taxiing aircraft.
Figures 8-2, 8-4 and 8-6 are inefficient, waste space and create aircraft movements issues.
Figure 8-5 doesn't gain any gates.
Figures 8-10 and 8-7 might work, but don't level the satellites, instead enlarge the circle for concessions - don't know what that does for you - the issue is security area and to relocate the concessions above the ticket counters would be a better use of space.


User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 785 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (9 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 12981 times:
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The concept that keeps only the west rotunda, but linear to the east may work (is that figure 8-5?)
To gain more gates they could add a finger in an L shape up against the commuter terminal like you
mentioned earlier. I'm personally not in favor of demolishing the commuter terminal in favor of a big
terminal (that was the old PSA hangar and there's some history behind it) To have one big terminal
that extends far onto the Teledyne property is a little too much!

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 22):
The second runway isn't going t0 fly. Tons of cash for only about a 15-20% increase in capacity. Ground traffic issues near the east end.

I think there's also some historical landmarks at MCRD that they cannot raze for a new runway. That's IF the marines leave MCRD. I'd personally love to see them put in a new runway,but there's
no available land.

I was also looking at that same figure (8-5?) would allow T-1 to stay open while new section
is being built. The remaining west rotunda can be redone with expanded concessions, etc.
after the new section is built.

[Edited 2013-10-21 16:21:27]


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User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 785 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (9 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 12957 times:
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Quoting tugger (Reply 19):
With the recent closure of another forum where San Diego locals and ex-locals used to discuss all sorts of minutiae related to aviation in San Diego,

Curious what was it that recently closed?

The website was called Aviation Guru and they had a SAN forum that generated a lot of activity.
It suddenly shut down a few months ago for unknown reasons.

[Edited 2013-10-21 16:42:30]


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User currently offlinewashingtonflyer From Bouvet Island, joined Sep 2013, 460 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (9 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 12935 times:

Why not situate a new linear international terminal at the old Ryan facility. Currently, you have daily (or nearly daily) service to NRT, LHR and several Mexican cities that require customs control (SJD, PVR, MEX). You have flights to YYC, YVR, and YYZ which are international but do not require full customs control. I think you could site an eight-gate international terminal on the Ryan land and have ample room for future routing. I've not looked at the PDEW totals for SAN, and don't think that SAN's international aspirations are boundless. But, I think there is probably enough viable traffic and cargo for one or additional European hubs (CDG, AMS or FRA) and two or three additional asia cities (PEK, PVG, or HKG (HKG may be on the outside envelope of feasible even with a 787)).

While we're at it, why not revise the idea of moving cargo ops to Brown field? UPS and FedEx already have significant infrastructure over in Otay Mesa with the commercial border crossing. I recognize that SDM has topography issues to the east, but why not consider a downwind landing for the five cargo flights that are set to land at SAN? They can then depart to the west in the evening.


User currently offlineSANflyr From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 30 posts, RR: 0
Reply 26, posted (9 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 12863 times:

Might have been mentioned above, but I did not notice it. The next big project is the CONRAC. Consolidated Car Rental Facility. It looks like early grading has started at Pacific Hwy and Washington Street. The facility is in design and looks to be very nice. I have heard that the idea is to remove the shuttles from Harbor and Pacific Hwy by constructing a new access road on airport property passing behind the runway blast fence. If that is true, along with consolidating all the various rental agency shuttles into one operation....traffic on Harbor should improve significantly (at least until the space currently occupied by the rental agencies and their associated storage lots get redeveloped).
One of the driving forces in demolishing Teledyne Ryan was for the taxiway relocation, so I imagine that project is still ago.


User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 785 posts, RR: 2
Reply 27, posted (9 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 12959 times:
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Quoting SANflyr (Reply 26):
One of the driving forces in demolishing Teledyne Ryan was for the taxiway relocation,

I'd heard that part of the demolition of the Teledyne site requires a cleanup of the site (old chemicals
in the soil before they can build on it.) I believe the taxiway relocation is to allow widebody jets to
taxi all of the way down to the end of the runway.The jets won't have to do the "lindy-hop" across
the runway.

BTW, I wonder where's SANFan? This thread is right up his alley!



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User currently offlineAM777LR From Mexico, joined Sep 2013, 206 posts, RR: 0
Reply 28, posted (9 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 12929 times:
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I would like to see more European flights, ie: FRA/AMS/CDG/MAD-SAN

User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5419 posts, RR: 8
Reply 29, posted (9 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 12833 times:

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 22):
Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 23):

FYI, be aware that the "plans" in the link I provided are just the various possible options that they have looked at. They are not part of the any adopted "Airport Plan" or necessarily going to be brought out to be considered officially.

Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 23):
I think there's also some historical landmarks at MCRD that they cannot raze for a new runway. That's IF the marines leave MCRD. I'd personally love to see them put in a new runway,but there's no available land.

To my knowledge you are correct that there are some historical landmarks at MCRD that can't be destroyed, HOWEVER that does not mean they are preventing anything from being built. They can all be moved, and with relative ease. Remember the Western Metals building was moved to accommodate the ballpark downtown and it was the biggest move of its type at the time. All the MCRD elements in question could be moved to a location on the property where they could be preserved or repurposed. That is if MCRD moved which I am not holding my breath for.

Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 27):
BTW, I wonder where's SANFan? This thread is right up his alley!

It's practically named after him.... 

Tugg



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User currently offlinelindy field From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 3116 posts, RR: 14
Reply 30, posted (9 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 12693 times:
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Well, this thread has turned out well so far.   I am a little bit surprised that a certain someone hasn't turned up yet... I figured that he could keep the thread going even if nobody else showed up.

In any case, I appreciate all the contributions we've had so far. I have a few follow-up questions. Is the east side of Terminal 2W still undergoing renovation or reconstruction, and if so, doesn' t that mean that Terminal 2 still hasn't yet had all of its gates open at once? Does this mean that when everything is open all at the same time that there might be enough real estate there to be able to move Alaska over as well as United? I'm simply thinking in terms of being able to move Alaska over from Terminal 1 to Terminal 2 so as to allow for the demolition/rebuilding of Terminal 1.

I've seen the various diagrams for new terminal options on the site of Terminal 1, but is there any timeframe in place for deciding which option to actually build?

Regarding new international service to SAN, I think it would depend on how well the existing services are doing. If there's a market for adding new service, then I think it depends on which airlines have or will have the right sized equipment to open new routes. In Europe, I'd think that LH or VS might be the most likely candidates among the European legacies to add service to SAN, but charter flights might also be a possibility. Outside Europe, I find myself wondering if WestJet might try flights from YVR to replace Air Canada.

And let's end this post with a pretty picture!
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Frank C. Duarte Jr.



User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 785 posts, RR: 2
Reply 31, posted (9 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 12619 times:
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Quoting lindy field (Reply 30):
I am a little bit surprised that a certain someone hasn't turned up yet... I figured that he could keep the thread going even if nobody else showed up.

I was trying to hold the fort down until he showed up (I sent him an instant message to invite
him to participate in the post, but he hasn't responded.)



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User currently offlineSANflyr From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 30 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (9 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 12521 times:

Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 27):
I'd heard that part of the demolition of the Teledyne site requires a cleanup of the site (old chemicals
in the soil before they can build on it.) I believe the taxiway relocation is to allow widebody jets to
taxi all of the way down to the end of the runway.The jets won't have to do the "lindy-hop" across
the runway.

Yes and Yes. There was some very nasty stuff underground.
Personally I think the T-R site would make a perfect location for a replacement Commuter Terminal.
They could demolish the old terminal and start building a new Terminal 1 in phases back towards Terminal 2. First Phase moves Southwest...demo Southwest pier. Phase 2 in the old Southwest pier area...Alaska moves over... and so on.


User currently offlineCALPSAFltSkeds From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 2584 posts, RR: 9
Reply 33, posted (9 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 12503 times:

Quoting SANflyr (Reply 32):
Personally I think the T-R site would make a perfect location for a replacement Commuter Terminal.
They could demolish the old terminal and start building a new Terminal 1 in phases back towards Terminal 2. First Phase moves Southwest...demo Southwest pier. Phase 2 in the old Southwest pier area...Alaska moves over... and so on.

That Commuter Terminal is also the headquarters of the Regional Airport Authority. Don't think I't going anywhere, but they do like to spend money. The views are great from the second floor bump-out windows for the RAA execs.

The problem with any terminal east of the Commuter Terminal is taxiing issues.There can be sequencing issues with the single taxiway. Additionally, the property gets pretty narrow and vehicular traffic could be problematic.

I was at a meeting where the Tower Chief was in attendance and I stated at least part of the TR property should be used as a penalty box type ramp to allow departing aircraft sequencing - he loved the idea and asked jokingly if I needed a job if I recall correctly.

The best solution keeps the commuter terminal where it is and high frequency carriers like WN/AS in the Terminal 1 area due to exiting the runway under the normal west flow as well as reduced taxiout for departure. That minimizes arriving aircraft rolling out farther west to T-2, improving efficiency.


User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 785 posts, RR: 2
Reply 34, posted (9 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 12419 times:
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Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 33):
The problem with any terminal east of the Commuter Terminal is taxiing issues.

And that would be arriving aircraft taxiing to the gates (at a Teledyne terminal) while departing aircraft from T-2 would be forced to share the same taxiway. (am I correct?) If the aircraft did a
rwy-9 arrival (in bad weather), they wouldn't have that problem,only for arriving aircraft
taxiing to T-1/T-2.



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User currently offlinewashingtonflyer From Bouvet Island, joined Sep 2013, 460 posts, RR: 0
Reply 35, posted (9 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 12348 times:

So swap out the commuter terminal for an international terminal. The distance from taxiway B to Harbor Drive has to be nearly 2,000 feet near the commuter terminal.

I find it hard to believe that they could not construct a ramp and terminal and some parking with 2,000 feet of clearance between the taxiway and the road.


User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 785 posts, RR: 2
Reply 36, posted (9 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 12338 times:
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Quoting washingtonflyer (Reply 35):
So swap out the commuter terminal for an international terminal.

If they swapped the commuter terminal for an international one, how many gates could
they fit in there?The commuter terminal has about four gates, but those are only big
enough for regional jets.



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User currently offlinewashingtonflyer From Bouvet Island, joined Sep 2013, 460 posts, RR: 0
Reply 37, posted (9 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 12329 times:

Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 36):
If they swapped the commuter terminal for an international one, how many gates could
they fit in there?The commuter terminal has about four gates, but those are only big
enough for regional jets.

Im not suggesting a 1 for 1 swap in footprint, but noting that the siting of the commuter terminal and adjacent parking lot provides ample room for a terminal and ramp.


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5354 posts, RR: 12
Reply 38, posted (9 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 12282 times:

Wow! What a great thread. There have been a couple of attempts over the last few years for an ongoing SAN-thread and they didn't go very far. I hope this one does stay healthy. Lots of good stuff. (And thanks to those of you wondering where I was; I picked a lousy time to be on the road and not spending much time online...)

I've got a lot I'd like to say (surprise?) but unfortunately, I'm still on a tight schedule and can't yet take the time to really concentrate on reading and reacting to the great posts here.

I would like to make a quick comment or 2 regarding your posts,Lindy. I think right now there is definitely enough room in T2 for AS to move there thus vacating T1W to allow the beginning of the rebuild/remodel of T1. (I'm not real sure what the near-term future of AS here is; they're now officially using 4 gates in T1W, while actually using as many as 7 of the 8 gates in that rotunda.) But by the time the SDCRAA is ready to commit to their plans for T1, who knows what the status of various cx will be?

Quoting lindy field (Thread starter):
Next month we should also be able to see Alaska's CRJ-700 operated by SkyWest on the new flights to Boise.

But has anyone noticed that AS has already downgraded (in my opinion at least) the BOI service to a Q starting Dec 1, just a month after the service begins with the CRJ. (And yes, that CR7 spends about 6 hours sitting on the ground in SAN for the month that it operates! The flight from BOI arrives SAN at about 11:30am and returns to BOI about 5:30pm... Very interesting use of that airplane.)

I'll be back on this thread as soon as I can -- and that's a promise (or a threat?) See you all soon.

bb


User currently offlineAAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3466 posts, RR: 47
Reply 39, posted (9 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 12221 times:

Quoting lindy field (Reply 30):
Is the east side of Terminal 2W still undergoing renovation or reconstruction, and if so, doesn' t that mean that Terminal 2 still hasn't yet had all of its gates open at once?

That is correct. Construction of "food court" area is ongoing as well as the hallway "upgrades" (floor tiles, ceiling, etc.). AA has been using gate 33 for early a.m. departures due to lack of interior space for gates 27, 29 & 31 (just one of the reasons).



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User currently offlinemercure1 From French Polynesia, joined Jul 2008, 1301 posts, RR: 2
Reply 40, posted (9 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 12211 times:

Quoting lindy field (Thread starter):
In some ways a sleepy town overshadowed by all the activity at LAX,

Yes that is image San Diego in general has overseas I think.

Its basically a suburb of Los Angeles metro being so close. Everyone I know that visit San Diego do so via Los Angeles as its a close and fast drive.


I have coupe questions -

1) Facility beautification is good, but what about actual physical capacity capabilities at SAN. Is airport and community not going to hit such barrier which will limit and upside growth at some point?

2) Being so close to LA, and certainly millions opt to visit San Diego by car via LA, anyone have idea as to the spill volume that is served by other airports like SNA, LAX etc?
Certainly the LAX airport catchment area includes San Diego as people use LA as the gateway to San Diego also.

Seems to me considering limits on SAN airport, its good there is LAX to provide relief and access point to reach SAN, otherwise SAN could not cope and could suffer loss with less visits/conventions etc..


User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 785 posts, RR: 2
Reply 41, posted (9 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 12188 times:
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Quoting mercure1 (Reply 40):
Its basically a suburb of Los Angeles metro being so close. Everyone I know that visit San Diego do so via Los Angeles as its a close and fast drive.

Ever since SAN got flights to Japan,UK,Canada,and Mexico, in addition to Mexican flights
from TIJ, the SAN area is slowly breaking out of that image. People who want to travel to
other Asian,European,or Middle Eastern countries, go through LAX.



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User currently offlinewashingtonflyer From Bouvet Island, joined Sep 2013, 460 posts, RR: 0
Reply 42, posted (9 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 12145 times:

One issue that you have with SAN is that it is a pure O/D city. Its not a Star Alliance gateway like LAX or SFO; its not a Skyteam gateway like ATL. And there is no feed of any consequence to really move traffic beyond SAN.

Can SAN support that with a MSA of 3,000,000 people? Certainly enough for NRT and LHR. As mentioned earlier, I think there could be enough traffic for other hubs (PVG, FRA, CDG, etc.), but not much beyond that.



[Edited 2013-10-24 10:32:21]

User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 785 posts, RR: 2
Reply 43, posted (9 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 12057 times:
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Quoting washingtonflyer (Reply 42):
think there could be enough traffic for other hubs (PVG, FRA, CDG, etc.),

I've been thinking another European hub before another Asian hub, maybe CDG or possibly AMS or FRA. The 787 is right sized aircraft.Also remember, Japan Airlines, British Airways,and American are part of
the Oneworld alliance,and those three airlines are part of the joint venture. I don't know if their
intentions is to make SAN a Oneworld focus city.



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User currently offlinewashingtonflyer From Bouvet Island, joined Sep 2013, 460 posts, RR: 0
Reply 44, posted (9 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 12005 times:

Not having lived in SAN for quite a while....what is the middle eastern community like in SAN. Could you envision at flight on EY or EK from DXB? Can a 787 make it that far?

User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 785 posts, RR: 2
Reply 45, posted (9 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 11996 times:
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Quoting washingtonflyer (Reply 44):
what is the middle eastern community like in SAN.

We have a sizeable Chaldean community here in SD. I'd heard about 20 or 30,000. I don't think
it's large enough to sustain a flight to the Middle East, but I don't know for sure. I figure if
someone wants to get to the Middle East, they can catch an Emirates flight from LAX or a Royal
Jordanian flight from DTW.



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User currently offlinelindy field From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 3116 posts, RR: 14
Reply 46, posted (9 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 11837 times:
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Bump! Well, to address some of the issues that have come up in the thread:

To me it seems logical that once Terminal 2 is "fully armed and operational," Alaska could be moved over. Southwest could then move from the eastern rotunda in Terminal 1 to the western one, allowing the beginning of demolition or some massive makeover. But the Airport Authority needs to make a decision first about what to do with the space. I'll ask again, is there any timeline for that decision to be made?

Regarding Terminal 2, has the airport seen any significant improved efficiencies since it opened? Have aircraft started using the new RON parking area, so that it's no longer necessary to tug so many aircraft across the active runway in the evening and morning?

Turning to possible future long-haul service, I recall seeing an Airport Authority development plan for SAN which included a forecast of future service. According to the stated projections, British Airways, Air France, Lufthansa, Japan Airlines, and Korean would be serving SAN by 2030. Of these, I see LH as being the most likely major international airline to add service. It's a bit of a stereotype, but Germans love the American Southwest and California. Germany is the dominant economy of Europe and the most populous European country, and there are great connecting opportunities through FRA to points farther East. Lufthansa also has a well-established history of trying flights to the "lesser" cities of the American West, like PHX and PDX. I think a potential hitch is that LH may not have the right-sized aircraft, or one with the necessary performance to operate from SAN. They haven't ordered the 787, and other aircraft might be too large. This is why I think that VS could be a possibility. Air France strikes me as less likely. KLM at least has 787s on the way, but I would be a little surprised if SAN was KLM's radar as a possible destination.


User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 785 posts, RR: 2
Reply 47, posted (9 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 11834 times:
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Quoting lindy field (Reply 46):
I think a potential hitch is that LH may not have the right-sized aircraft, or one with the necessary performance to operate from SAN.

I've heard that this is the reason why LH have not started service to SAN yet, is that they don't have
the right-sized aircraft to do the job. LH has ordered the A350 my guess is that once the A350 comes
on line, they will take a hard look at SAN, maybe even reinstating service to PDX and PHX.

Quoting lindy field (Reply 46):
it seems logical that once Terminal 2 is "fully armed and operational," Alaska could be moved over.


SANFan mentioned since AS is using only four gates at T-1, they could easily be moved to T-2. My
only question is, does T-2 have the space to accommodate Horizon and their Q-400s in addition to AS' 737s?



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User currently offlinemercure1 From French Polynesia, joined Jul 2008, 1301 posts, RR: 2
Reply 48, posted (9 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 11813 times:

So anyone have an idea of how many passengers (millions) utilize LAX and other Los Angeles basin airports as the gateway to San Diego?

Certainly many millions opt to take the 100mile drive to San Diego, while many also utilize the short hops up to LAX on AA and UA to go beyond also.

I think its interesting study of how traffic bleeds away from local SAN community airport to bigger mega airport. Suppose its the same in LA itself, with smaller community airports always competing with LAX being under its big shadow.


User currently offlineAM777LR From Mexico, joined Sep 2013, 206 posts, RR: 0
Reply 49, posted (9 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 11699 times:
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Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 47):

What about the A332? Does this aircraft not work for LH at SAN? Or the A343?


User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 785 posts, RR: 2
Reply 50, posted (9 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 11661 times:
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Quoting AM777LR (Reply 49):
What about the A332? Does this aircraft not work for LH at SAN? Or the A343?

I've been thinking that the A332/33 may be a little too large for SAN. I know there's the rising terrain
at the end of the runway, but I don't really think that's a huge factor, considering BA uses a 777 to
LHR and Hawaiian has a daily A332 to HNL. I suspect that it's the size of the aircraft and LH probably
thinks SAN is not a large enough market to handle an A330, which I believe why LH dropped PHX and
PDX, but I'm speculating.

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 48):
I think its interesting study of how traffic bleeds away from local SAN community airport to bigger mega airport.

No doubt some pax from SAN travel 120 miles to LAX to catch flights, especially int'l flights. LAX has a huge mix of int'l flights, some even catch commuter flights to SFO to catch some flights.



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User currently offlineDCAYOW From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 599 posts, RR: 3
Reply 51, posted (9 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 11635 times:

The A330 is underpowered for the SAN departure. SAN requires high power to weight ratio engines. This limits the effective range of the A330 to basically the Hawaiian Islands and the east coast.


Retorne ao céu...
User currently offlinelindy field From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 3116 posts, RR: 14
Reply 52, posted (9 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 11474 times:
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I'll just pipe in to clarify that Lufthansa doesn't operate the A330-200 any more. With the A330-300s underpowered as DCAYOW mentioned, that leaves the A340s. The A340-300s are slated for replacement relatively soon and I'm not sure that they have the performance (even with 4 engines!) necessary for ops from FRA to SAN. The trouble is that the A350 may be a bit large... It's also worth considering that tourism to California from Europe does drop off quite a bit in the winter. The solution might be seasonal flights...

There definitely are a lot of people who fly out of LAX or who make connections at major hubs like ATL, IAH, or JFK for their international travel, but that's always going to be a hassle and most people will prefer to fly nonstop if it's not too expensive. The 787 is sort of the perfect plane for international service to SAN, but unfortunately, some of the major airlines of Europe have chosen not to order them.


User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 785 posts, RR: 2
Reply 53, posted (9 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 11433 times:
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I was thinking that maybe we could see Condor starting up flights between SAN-FRA.
There's also Thomas Cook, or Thomson Airways. I could realistically see Condor
starting up SAN to take advantage of leisure traffic. I've been also looking at Norwegian
possibly sending a 787 this way. Norwegian has been recently adding new U.S. cities
lately.



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User currently offlinesan88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 111 posts, RR: 1
Reply 54, posted (9 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 11385 times:

For the early part of the morning SAN had fog / low visibility. Saw something rare , occasionally SAN will operate dual operations on 9 & 27. I've seen this before, during fog ( reverse operations) runway 9 for take off and landings but sometimes planes will hold at the end of 27 and once spacing and airspace cleared, 27 will be used for takeoffs then will revert back to 9.

I'll assume someone who is heavy will request for 27? Today I saw a UA 737-800 holding for 27 takeoff and she looked heavy. Minutes later runway 9 operations continued and HA A330 took off (she was a monster  

Has anyone seen this dual operations 9/27, it's pretty awesome!



sit on the Captain side when you fly into SAN
User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 785 posts, RR: 2
Reply 55, posted (9 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 11359 times:
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Quoting san88 (Reply 54):
Minutes later runway 9 operations continued and HA A330 took off (she was a monster

The HA A330 did a runway-9 takeoff? That's steep takeoff! I wonder if the JAL 787 could
do a runway-9 takeoff?

Quoting san88 (Reply 54):
Has anyone seen this dual operations 9/27, it's pretty awesome!

That's got to be an extremely rare occurrence!



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User currently offlinesan88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 111 posts, RR: 1
Reply 56, posted (9 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 11288 times:

Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 55):
The HA A330 did a runway-9 takeoff? That's steep takeoff!

Yes it was AWESOME! during the winter FOG is very common in SAN. I've actually been on a full HA 767 on 9 takeoff during heavy rain a few years ago.

Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 55):
Quoting san88 (Reply 54):
Has anyone seen this dual operations 9/27, it's pretty awesome!

That's got to be an extremely rare occurrence!

In my seven years at SAN (WN) I've seen this dual 9/27 operations three times, very rare  



sit on the Captain side when you fly into SAN
User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 785 posts, RR: 2
Reply 57, posted (9 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 11276 times:
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In the early to mid-80s UA used to run a daily SAN-LAX-HNL flight with a 747. I
remember seeing the UA 747 do a runway-9 takeoff one day. I recall, it wasn't
stormy or foggy that day. And just doing a short run to LAX I figure the plane
was half empty.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Frank C. Duarte Jr.





[Edited 2013-10-26 21:16:09]


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User currently offlineCALPSAFltSkeds From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 2584 posts, RR: 9
Reply 58, posted (9 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 11249 times:

With fog or strong Santa Ana winds, Runway 9 can rarely be the operational runway. If it is, some aircraft can't use 9 for departure, so they request 27 and have to wait for a break in arrivals for takeoff. A 738, 321 or 739 with an East Coast non-stop probably can't use 9, especially if 9 is in use for fog, not winds.
I believe the FAA set new standards on head to head operations that require more separation. Maybe someone knows more.
European markets need an aircraft with 15-16 hour range aircraft like the 772ER or 787, so they can take off well under MGTOW on the runway and obstructions. My guess is Condor or other Charter operators would do seasonal service and maybe 2-4 days per week.


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5354 posts, RR: 12
Reply 59, posted (9 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 11229 times:

I'm going to jump in here again for a quick post. (I'm in Panguitch, Utah tonight.)

Just thought I'd mention that a few years ago (2007), the SDCRAA/SDIA route development team announced their goals for desired new intercontinental service from SAN: Europe (especially LON), Asia, and Latin America.

For those not keeping track, the first two have been summarily checked off the list; the emphasis now -- and this has been confirmed more recently as still the case -- is on a Central or South American nonstop. (And IMHO, LAN being a OW member and operator of the 787 would seem like a very likely candidate!) And Hampton Brown has a mighty good, and award-winning track record of accomplishments in the field of Route Development! So I give this goal better than even odds of happening at some point.

For those talking about new European service from Lindbergh, I thought I'd mention that SAN's incentive program for new international service to Europe (as revised in 2011) is essentially unavailable until summer of 2014. (This is 3 years following the introduction of service to the region, defined as "Europe", by BA in June of 2011.) I would expect that any carrier desiring to start intercontinental service at SAN would want to take advantage of such an incentive so I'm anxious to see what might happen next year or the year after...

And I too would think LH to be the most interested in adding SAN to their route map but their equipment options are, as is already being discussed, an important factor to be considered.

Finally, someone asked earlier in this thread about leakage from SAN to LAX. Numbers for 2006 presented in 2007 had the figure at just under .5M pax for that year. I can't find (or remember) any more recent figure. Whether that number has increased or decreased -- due maybe to more service now available from Lindbergh? -- I don't know but that may provide at least a bit of data for discussion purposes.

bb


User currently offlinelindy field From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 3116 posts, RR: 14
Reply 60, posted (9 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 11149 times:
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I have to admit that I would be quite surprised to see any SAN nonstops to Central or South America any time soon. I'm not aware of any particularly strong population or trade ties between San Diego and any specific areas south of Mexico. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Furthermore, the planned cessation of LAN flights to SFO from Lima early next year suggests that LAN does not do too well without strong local feed. If they can't make it in SFO, I highly doubt that SAN is a likely option.

On a brighter note, in another thread it seems that Volaris has had their route application for service between San Diego and Toluca approved. We'll have to wait and see if they actually initiate service.

Also, that's interesting information about the incentive program at SAN. I guess it will be another year or more (probably more) before we see any additional service from Europe.


User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 785 posts, RR: 2
Reply 61, posted (9 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 11108 times:
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Quoting SANFan (Reply 59):
SAN's incentive program for new international service to Europe (as revised in 2011) is essentially unavailable until summer of 2014.

I thought the incentive program for new European flights would be available this year.



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User currently offlineAAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3466 posts, RR: 47
Reply 62, posted (9 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 11032 times:

Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 55):
Quoting san88 (Reply 54):
Has anyone seen this dual operations 9/27, it's pretty awesome!

That's got to be an extremely rare occurrence!

I guess that depends upon your definition of "awesome" and "rare."   

Sat. morning I was asked if we could use Rwy-9 as that was the landing runway. While we replied in the affirmative, ATC decided against that as they already had two planes waiting to use Rwy-27 after a couple more landings and it would be easier to just add us to the list of Rwy-27 departures (also easier on ground traffic movements). Sun. morning we landed on Rwy-9 while one AA 737 was holding short at that end and 3 other planes were holding for Rwy-27 departure (an additional 4 acft were waiting to taxi eastbound to use Rwy-27 as well).

When it gets busy, ATC will operate 4-6 departures on Rwy-27 and then land 4-6 arrivals on Rwy-9. Primary reason for this configuration is the terrain east of the airport. Departures are often weight restricted due to the necessary climb and will require Rwy-27 while arrivals require Rwy-9 due to its lower ILS minimums for the approach (353' vs 680').

IMHO, neither "awesome" nor "rare" -- but I have a different perspective than most.   



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User currently offlineL0VE2FLY From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 1533 posts, RR: 0
Reply 63, posted (9 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 10808 times:

I don't think that San Diego's proximity to LAX is the main reason for the lack of long haul services in SAN. LAX is not exactly in our backyard, it's ~2 hours drive if you're lucky and don't get stuck in traffic jam, most San Diegans who fly via LAX take a connecting flight out of SAN or CLD. Aircrafts operating long haul take a payload hit because of the high terrain nearby and SAN's relatively short runway.

It looks like SAN will face even more competition from an airport that's not even in the US by the end of next year. Construction On Airport Terminal Linking Tijuana To San Diego Is Off The Ground



Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 45):
We have a sizeable Chaldean community here in SD. I'd heard about 20 or 30,000. I don't think
it's large enough to sustain a flight to the Middle East, but I don't know for sure. I figure if
someone wants to get to the Middle East, they can catch an Emirates flight from LAX or a Royal
Jordanian flight from DTW.

The number of Middle Easterns in San Diego is much higher than 30,000. Chaldeans are Iraqi Christians and are mostly concentrated in El Cajon, however, there's many more Middle Easterns from other countries and backgrounds across San Diego county.

I don't see EK, EY or QR coming to SAN any time soon, such long flights would take a serious weight restriction, also connecting in the Gulf is not a good option for most Middle Easterns as it would involve backtracking, it would be good for those flying to South Asia though.



Quoting mercure1 (Reply 48):
So anyone have an idea of how many passengers (millions) utilize LAX and other Los Angeles basin airports as the gateway to San Diego?

Certainly many millions opt to take the 100mile drive to San Diego, while many also utilize the short hops up to LAX on AA and UA to go beyond also.

I think its interesting study of how traffic bleeds away from local SAN community airport to bigger mega airport. Suppose its the same in LA itself, with smaller community airports always competing with LAX being under its big shadow.

As I mentioned above, Not too many San Diegans drive 2 hours to catch a flight out of LAX, but for overseas and out-of-state tourists, yes, using LAX as a gateway to San Diego makes sense.




Quoting DCAYOW (Reply 51):
The A330 is underpowered for the SAN departure. SAN requires high power to weight ratio engines. This limits the effective range of the A330 to basically the Hawaiian Islands and the east coast.

Zoom Airlines used to fly SAN-LGW with the 763, does the 763 have higher power to weight ratio than the A332? I do realize that LH no longer operate the A332.




Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 53):
I was thinking that maybe we could see Condor starting up flights between SAN-FRA.
There's also Thomas Cook, or Thomson Airways. I could realistically see Condor
starting up SAN to take advantage of leisure traffic. I've been also looking at Norwegian
possibly sending a 787 this way. Norwegian has been recently adding new U.S. cities
lately.

   AB is another candidate, they'll receive their 787s next year and they can offer a lot of connections via TXL.




Quoting SANFan (Reply 59):
For those not keeping track, the first two have been summarily checked off the list; the emphasis now -- and this has been confirmed more recently as still the case -- is on a Central or South American nonstop.

Come on JAL, put a GRU tag on your NRT-SAN flight!




Quoting lindy field (Reply 60):
I have to admit that I would be quite surprised to see any SAN nonstops to Central or South America any time soon. I'm not aware of any particularly strong population or trade ties between San Diego and any specific areas south of Mexico. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Furthermore, the planned cessation of LAN flights to SFO from Lima early next year suggests that LAN does not do too well without strong local feed. If they can't make it in SFO, I highly doubt that SAN is a likely option.

   It's unfortunate though, as SAN is perfectly located for those traveling between Central/South America and the Western US & Canada.



Quoting AAR90 (Reply 62):
IMHO, neither "awesome" nor "rare" -- but I have a different perspective than most.

Indeed you do, I've never seen a Rwy 09 departure.


User currently offlinewashingtonflyer From Bouvet Island, joined Sep 2013, 460 posts, RR: 0
Reply 64, posted (9 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10737 times:

In all the years I've flown into and out of SAN, I've landed on 9 twice - once back in about 2003 and once last year. Both situations involved late morning or early afternoon arrivals where there was dense fog and the ceiling was no more than 1,000 feet.

When the family and I stayed in SAN on vacation in 2010 or so (late August), we rented a condo in a place off Sassafrass Street on the hill. We had a great view of the airport.

On our second day, we saw a very low cloud layer, with the usual conga line of jets awaiting the 6:30 am starting gun for Rwy 27. About 30 minutes later, I noticed all departures halted, and saw the lights of what was three or four jets landing down Rwy 9. They cleared the queue, and departures off 27 resumed.

BTW, anyone else remember when little prop craft would depart off of Rwy 31?


User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3385 posts, RR: 2
Reply 65, posted (9 months 21 hours ago) and read 10588 times:

How does everyone think the TIJ bridge will affect SAN?


"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlineL0VE2FLY From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 1533 posts, RR: 0
Reply 66, posted (9 months 20 hours ago) and read 10559 times:

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 65):
How does everyone think the TIJ bridge will affect SAN?

SAN-Mexico and maybe Central America flights will be affected the most, as for long haul and domestic flights there will be very little change, unless Mexican carriers significantly expand their operations out of TIJ and advertise more in San Diego County.


User currently offlineAM777LR From Mexico, joined Sep 2013, 206 posts, RR: 0
Reply 67, posted (9 months 19 hours ago) and read 10535 times:
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Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 63):
I don't think that San Diego's proximity to LAX is the main reason for the lack of long haul services in SAN.

The terrain and the runway are the big restrictions. If it weren't for those two things, SAN would be more diverse.

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 63):
I don't see EK, EY or QR coming to SAN any time soon, such long flights would take a serious weight restriction

The only plane that would even remotely have a chance of flying to the middle east from SAN is the 777LR. Maybe the 789. Even with these planes, there would be MAJOR restrictions. Maybe they could fly DXB/AUH/DOH-SAN-PHX-DXB/AUH/DOH, or something like that.

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 63):
It looks like SAN will face even more competition from an airport that's not even in the US by the end of next year

I know many people drive to TIJ to catch cheap domestic flights to Mexico on 4O and Y4, my self included, but how many cross to take flights to PVG and NRT. AM's Asia flights are ridiculously expensive. Flights from LAX are much cheaper. I don't know about you, but a two hour drive is better than spending almost $1,000 more on a flight. Plus, the border crossings at San Ysidro and Mesa de Otay move at a snails pace. The average wait of like 2 hours to cross back into the US.

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 65):
How does everyone think the TIJ bridge will affect SAN?

As mentioned above, for flights to Mexico, it will affect SAN in my opinion. But for flights to Asia, LAX will be more attractive to most people. On top of that, the media scares people by saying they will be kidnapped if they go to TJ and that is should be avoided at all cost...that is simply not true. Thousands of people cross into Tijuana every day.

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 63):
It's unfortunate though, as SAN is perfectly located for those traveling between Central/South America and the Western US & Canada.

Flights from SAN to Central and South American would be a gold mine! As mentioned above, maybe JAL could fly NRT-SAN-GRU to compete with KE on its ICN-LAX-GRU flight. The 788 would be the perfect aircraft.

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 66):
SAN-Mexico and maybe Central America flights will be affected the most

   Minus the Central American flights.


User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 785 posts, RR: 2
Reply 68, posted (9 months 18 hours ago) and read 10507 times:
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Quoting AM777LR (Reply 67):
but how many cross to take flights to PVG and NRT.



AMs' flight to NRT from TIJ is only a fuel stop. It's a triangle route from MEX. The flight is
nonstop NRT to MEX.Also I'd heard that people cannot book NRT from TIJ.The flight originates down in MEX. When the flight first started,AM was hoping to get pax from
San Diego and Orange County,but everyone still went to LAX for flights.
The TIJ-PVG flight has done better.I guess some pax are using it from
north of the border. The bridge should not affect SAN traffic too much.Apparently,
it is for people wanting to catch domestic flights down into Mexico, but I'd
heard there would be a toll fee for using the bridge, I don't know how much
money people will be saving after paying the toll fee.


Quoting AM777LR (Reply 67):
The only plane that would even remotely have a chance of flying to the middle east from SAN is the 777LR. Maybe the 789. Even with these planes, there would be MAJOR restrictions. Maybe they could fly DXB/AUH/DOH-SAN-PHX-DXB/AUH/DOH, or something like that.


What about SAN-LHR-DXB? Although I don't see EK of EY flying to SAN in the near future.



PSA Gives you a lift!
User currently offlineAM777LR From Mexico, joined Sep 2013, 206 posts, RR: 0
Reply 69, posted (9 months 17 hours ago) and read 10462 times:
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Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 68):
AMs' flight to NRT from TIJ is only a fuel stop. It's a triangle route from MEX. The flight is
nonstop NRT to MEX.Also I'd heard that people cannot book NRT from TIJ.The flight originates down in MEX.

True it does originate in MEX, but it is bookable from TIJ. I recently moved back to the States from the Tijuana area and while living down there, my company sent me to Japan and China. I flew AM from TIJ to NRT, then flew NH from NRT to PVG, and then AM on PVG to TIJ. that flight on the 767-200ER wasn't so bad. I was on XA-TOJ with the new cabin. The 777 flight was decent as well. The loads seemed very healthy on both flights.

Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 68):
When the flight first started,AM was hoping to get pax from

San Diego and Orange County,but everyone still went to LAX for flights.

Main reason is because it is so much cheaper from LAX. If my company hadn't paid for it, I would have flown from LAX. I did a quick search and the cheapest LAX-NRT non-stop flight is on SQ on an A380 and it cost $509.50 oneway per person. Compare that to AM on TIJ-NRT at $1,437.86 oneway per person. Which would you choose? The PVG flights are even more expensive, at $1,626.86 on AM from TIJ and $563.20 on MU from LAX.

Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 68):
I'd
heard there would be a toll fee for using the bridge, I don't know how much
money people will be saving after paying the toll fee.

i have heard it will be about $20 per person. Not too bad.

Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 68):
What about SAN-LHR-DXB?

That route might work better, but maybe SAN-CDG-DXB, because I don't think there needs to be anymore capacity on the SAN-LHR route.


User currently offlinereality From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 466 posts, RR: 0
Reply 70, posted (9 months 17 hours ago) and read 10422 times:

Quoting AM777LR (Reply 69):
i have heard it will be about $20 per person. Not too bad.

Actually, the developers have never said what fee they have in mind. It might be $10, it might be $20, it might be $50. So whatever anyone has "heard" is pure speculation. And remember, the fee is each way.


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5354 posts, RR: 12
Reply 71, posted (9 months 16 hours ago) and read 10400 times:

The thing is, Mexico-bound flights from TIJ are attractive to some people in San Diego because they are domestic flights, and therefore, cheaper than trans-border (international) flights from Lindbergh. But an international flight from TJ, whether it be to Asia or (at some time in the future) to Europe, is not going to have the same cost benefit (is it?) Plus, a San Diegan who is a US citizen, desiring to fly from TIJ to Asia, would have to deal with the border crossing, plus boarding an intercontinental flight from a foreign country. (I would think that would be somewhat more complicated than boarding a plane in San Diego for Asia.)

Along those same lines, if any US carrier started flying from TIJ to their hub in the US, it then becomes an international flight and a whole new ballgame. Certainly no one from north of the border would want to do that. But would there even be a marker for such service? Would Northern Baja (Mexican) residents desiring to fly to Cleveland, if, say, UA offered a TIJ-DEN flight - an international flight - be interested? I don't think so. I'm sure it would be much cheaper for those Mexican residents living in TJ who want to fly to CLE to simply cross the border and fly UA domestically from SAN (or even LA) to CLE.

I wanted to clarify my comments about the SDCRAA seeking Latin America as their next goal. Most folks seem to think that the potential for such service from SAN is poor. I've seen some numbers and even though SAN seems to have higher ones than a lot of other US cities, the figures are NOT real high. So I don't really know.

But what I do know is that the experts -- and I do consider SAN's Route Development folks as experts -- seem to feel that the potential of getting a carrier to offer some sort of service from SAN is good. (And I also know that they do have a pretty darned good track record lately!) I would presume some sort of sub-daily nonstop to some hub either in Central or northern South America might be doable...

bb


User currently offlinewashingtonflyer From Bouvet Island, joined Sep 2013, 460 posts, RR: 0
Reply 72, posted (9 months 15 hours ago) and read 10375 times:

Perhaps PTY. I cannot think where else they could do this in Central/South America.

Not GRU, not ECE, and not SCL.


User currently offlinewashingtonflyer From Bouvet Island, joined Sep 2013, 460 posts, RR: 0
Reply 73, posted (9 months 15 hours ago) and read 10376 times:

FWIW, I found a County of San Diego publication which provides some info on demographic backgrounds of folks in the county. Other than the Hispanic population, whose roots are not immediately identifiable, but are likely to be overwhelmingly Mexican, the biggest foreign communities in the county are the Philippino, Vietnamese, and Chinese communities. Most are pretty small with under only the Philippino community exceeding 50,000 (about 150,000 by government estimates). The Vietnamese community and Chinese community are estimated at about 45,000 to 50,000 each. PR already files into LAX and I don't see much SAN traffic other than friends/family.

I could see service to PEK or PVG given the business focus, the population base and the beyond hub connection abilities on the Chinese end. That being said, its an additional 800 miles beyond NRT to get to PEK. ....


User currently offlinelindy field From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 3116 posts, RR: 14
Reply 74, posted (9 months 15 hours ago) and read 10348 times:
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It is kind of fun to dream about having exotic guests on a regular basis, isn't it?

MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © Alex Montano



User currently offlineAM777LR From Mexico, joined Sep 2013, 206 posts, RR: 0
Reply 75, posted (9 months 14 hours ago) and read 10323 times:
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Quoting SANFan (Reply 71):

It is complicated for non-mexican citizens crossing the border and flying internationally out of TIJ. At the border, they will have to go to the imigration office and get a tourist visa. Whne you exit the country I.e flying out of TIJ, these cards will be collected. On too of that these cards aren't free, they cost something like $20 or $30 and if you show up at the airport and don't have yor tourist card it is something like a $50 fee.

Quoting reality (Reply 70):

We won't know until it opens but I can't imagine it costing more than $30 one way.


User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3385 posts, RR: 2
Reply 76, posted (9 months 9 hours ago) and read 10267 times:

Any room at SAN for a new (established) carrier to have 15-20 flights a day?


"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 785 posts, RR: 2
Reply 77, posted (9 months 5 hours ago) and read 10247 times:
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Quoting AM777LR (Reply 69):
Main reason is because it is so much cheaper from LAX.

I guess that could be a reason people fly from LAX, because of the cheaper flights. I figure
another reason is that LAX is a Star Alliance,Skyteam, and Oneworld hub.



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User currently offlineAM777LR From Mexico, joined Sep 2013, 206 posts, RR: 0
Reply 78, posted (9 months 5 hours ago) and read 10233 times:
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Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 77):

Yep, and the competition brings down prices. There like like 10 carriers on the LAX-NRT route and one on TIJ-NRT. AM can charge what they want and people will pay (for the most part).


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5354 posts, RR: 12
Reply 79, posted (8 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 10127 times:

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 76):
Any room at SAN for a new (established) carrier to have 15-20 flights a day?

Absolutely! That'd be, what, 4 gates? No problem. (Whether at the CT or T2.)

Do you know something the rest of us don't ?!?! Yours is a very intriguing post...

bb


User currently offlineusctrojan18 From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 92 posts, RR: 0
Reply 80, posted (8 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 10115 times:

Any chance of new domestic service to SAN? If AS does move into T2, will they have any room to expand? If they do, which routes would they want to start? I would think SJC and SMF would be next, but after that where else would they go? They lost on the SAN-DCA bid, they missed their chance on the SAN-Miami area route, GDL might work, but TIJ is too close.
Besides AS, would any other airlines add service? VX has been at SAN for 4 years, but still only serve SFO. Also NK has added some routes to SAN, maybe they want to try SAN-DTW or SAN-FLL (Even if AA is on the SAN-Miami market). Finally is there any other market WN could start from SAN? SAN-DAL when the wright amendment ends, but that is about it.
SAN's future looks brighter than it did in 06. They still need another runway and T1 needs to be rebuilt, but SAN is heading in a good direction.


User currently offlinebw50505 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 101 posts, RR: 0
Reply 81, posted (8 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 9979 times:

N101FE is en route again as FX9047 MEM-SAN should arrive at around 0930 PDT.

User currently offlinelindy field From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 3116 posts, RR: 14
Reply 82, posted (8 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 9893 times:
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When I first saw the previous post, I didn't realize that it meant the FedEx is in SAN again today. Is this for training purposes again? Any reason why SAN is chosen? Should we expect to see some of the existing FedEx flights to SAN change to the 767 in the near future?

Regarding the previous posts about new domestic service at SAN, it seems to me that the most likely additions will come from those airlines that are making lots of money and expanding at the moment. To me, that means that we could very well see more service from Spirit, which currently seems to be doing so well. Especially with the, what was it, fifteen planes they have coming in 2015, they'll need to expand somewhere. Since a few of their flights only operate once a day at present, I could imagine increased service as well as new destinations. More interesting to me, I have to admit, is the question of what Delta might do. I'm quite curious to see if they'll add flights to their new focus city in Seattle, as they've recently done in LAX, will do in SFO, and a few other western cities. Does the E-175 have the range for it? What about the 717? Either would be a nice add and would make for a bit of competition with Alaska Airlines. Other than that, there's the chance of Allegiant flights to IWA, and maybe Southwest to DAL when the Wright Amendment is allowed to lapse.

I think we may see the number of flights to some existing destinations increased since so much capacity has been cut over recent years. Some of it will come back at some point, won't it? We should also see some capacity increases through the introduction of larger aircraft, with JetBlue bringing in A321s instead of A320s, more United 737-900s, etc. Sadly, I think the 737-900s coming to Delta and United will also mean fewer 757s at SAN. One case of upgauging I've noticed recently is that Delta Connection is using the CRJ-900 fairly often on flights from LAX, quite a bit more plane than UAX is using when they send EMB-120s...


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5354 posts, RR: 12
Reply 83, posted (8 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 9861 times:

Today has seen the inauguration of AS's newest route from Lindbergh Field - Boise! The inbound arrived at ~11:40 this morning and the plane will return to Idaho at 5:35pm; it is currently a CR7 op'd by OO for Alaska. (It is scheduled to change to a Q400 in a month.)

This becomes AS's 13th nonstop destination from SAN! (And #14, MMH, will be starting next month.) AS remains second only to WN in the number of unique nonstop destinations from SAN, with WN hanging on to their (diminishing) lead with 19.

The November schedule for Alaska will see an average of 21 daily departures with ~8 RON a/c! Very impressive when considering that as recently as Summer of 2010, AS operated a schedule of 11 daily flights from SAN to 3 destinations! (And 3 RONs.)

Quoting usctrojan18 (Reply 80):
If AS does move into T2, will they have any room to expand? If they do, which routes would they want to start? I would think SJC and SMF would be next, but after that where else would they go? They lost on the SAN-DCA bid, they missed their chance on the SAN-Miami area route, GDL might work, but TIJ is too close.
IF -- and I really don't know -- AS remains committed to this SAN-Experiment, there should be no shortage of potential new routes from here. If AS moves to T2 -- and at some point I think they might have to due a re-build of T1 -- I don't see any problem with gate space. Until such a move is necessary, there is no shortage of gates in T1W for AS to use. They are actually using 7 gates these days (12-18) even though their official gates, according to their website, are 15-18. I keep trying to find out if AS has committed yet to permanently taking over additional gates in their rotunda -- or if someone else may do so -- and nobody's talking. If anyone knows anything about the near-term future plans for T1W, PLEASE let me know!

In any case, AS in SAN bears watching in the next year. AS certainly has a number of issues to deal with these days and I do hope they don't end up scrapping the amazing growth and presence they've already achieved here. I think 2014 will be a very telling year for the carrier...

bb

[Edited 2013-11-01 16:43:50]

User currently offlineremcor From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 358 posts, RR: 0
Reply 84, posted (8 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 9826 times:

Quoting AM777LR (Reply 75):
It is complicated for non-mexican citizens crossing the border and flying internationally out of TIJ. At the border, they will have to go to the imigration office and get a tourist visa. Whne you exit the country I.e flying out of TIJ, these cards will be collected. On too of that these cards aren't free, they cost something like $20 or $30 and if you show up at the airport and don't have yor tourist card it is something like a $50 fee.

Eh, it's not super complicated I think. I flew to BOG Colombia for vacation earlier this year via TIJ and the visa card at the airport is one more step, but it didn't take too long. Don't remember what it cost, but my flight was still much cheaper from TIJ than it would have been from SAN. The bridge would have been fantastic had it existed for me.

I think this may spur investment at TIJ and warrant the place being upgraded and made a bit more user friendly. If it attracts more flights out of TIJ that's a win for both sides of the border.


User currently offlinewashingtonflyer From Bouvet Island, joined Sep 2013, 460 posts, RR: 0
Reply 85, posted (8 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 9811 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 83):
Today has seen the inauguration of AS's newest route from Lindbergh Field - Boise! The inbound arrived at ~11:40 this morning and the plane will return to Idaho at 5:35pm; it is currently a CR7 op'd by OO for Alaska. (It is scheduled to change to a Q400 in a month.)

SAN-BOI in a turboprop? Wow.


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5354 posts, RR: 12
Reply 86, posted (8 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 9782 times:

Quoting washingtonflyer (Reply 85):
SAN-BOI in a turboprop? Wow.

Yeah, it will be starting Dec 1 -- and appears to stay that way through February; in early March it looks like it might again become a CR7... Maybe at that time, AS will come up with something to use the plane for rather than just sitting in SAN for 6 hours!

About 2.5 hours on a Q. Doable but maybe not everyone's idea of an enjoyable flight experience. As long as they are keeping the flight operating, I am happy to see any a/c type.

Quoting lindy field (Reply 82):
To me, that means that we could very well see more service from Spirit, which currently seems to be doing so well. ... Since a few of their flights only operate once a day at present, I could imagine increased service as well as new destinations.

NK seemed to be growing pretty nicely in SAN last year but nothing new at all this year. Kind of disappointing. I personally was convinced we would see SAN-IWA on NK but perhaps since they knew they would be moving to Sky Harbor, they didn't. But I still believe we WILL see some additional routes here from Spirit at some point. IAH, MSP, ORD and maybe even a couple of additional Mexican destinations could work? (DEN and FLL probably not.)

Quoting lindy field (Reply 82):
More interesting to me, I have to admit, is the question of what Delta might do. I'm quite curious to see if they'll add flights to their new focus city in Seattle, as they've recently done in LAX, will do in SFO, and a few other western cities. Does the E-175 have the range for it? What about the 717?

I'm also waiting for the next salvo in the AS-DL thing. I would think that if DL continues what they've been doing with SEA, SAN can't be too far down the list. (There's been no preemptive move by AS so apparently they don't see SEA-SAN from DL as too likely..) But IF Delta did add SAN-SEA, I would expect to see mainline rather than an RJ.

Quoting lindy field (Reply 82):
Other than that, there's the chance of Allegiant flights to IWA, and maybe Southwest to DAL when the Wright Amendment is allowed to lapse.

G4 is a big unknown for me regarding SAN right now. Being as they so not serve Lindbergh currently -- but will supposedly start SAN-BLI again next spring or summer -- I'm not very optimistic to see anything new here from them. I will say that I think flights between SAN and IWA would do well; I just don't see anyone suitable to serve the route.

DAL-SAN on WN in a year? Maybe not one of the very first routes added from Love Field but I'm pretty sure it will happen fairly quickly. (Probably quicker than ATL-SAN was added.)

bb


User currently offlinehawaiian717 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3188 posts, RR: 7
Reply 87, posted (8 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 9776 times:

Flew into SAN around midday today (November 1). Noticed that the east side of T2W appears to be back in use, as United had aircraft parked at 38 and 39. Snapped a quick proof photo too.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10678595@N02/10619682605/


User currently offlinebw50505 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 101 posts, RR: 0
Reply 88, posted (8 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 9651 times:

DAL has flown their new B739 from DTW-SAN as DL833. It arrived at around 1020 PDT.

Also, N101FE is probably here for FAA Proving again. Maybe SAN is on their list of airports that cargo aircraft must fly to during proving.


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5354 posts, RR: 12
Reply 89, posted (8 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 9537 times:

Well, it happened today -- DL announces SEA-SAN starting next June! Here's the link to the thread:
DL Launching SEA-PDX/SAN (by Triple7Lr Nov 3 2013 in Civil Aviation)

Four r/t on CR9s starting June 2, 2014; plus DL is entering the SEA-PDX market as well next fall!

On the positive side, I'm glad to see that DL feels SAN is important enough of a station for them to make it, what, the 4th western domestic market (following LAX, LAS, SFO) to be newly-connected to their SEA focus operation. (Or did I miss a city?) DL has not added much of anything here since the very short-lived HNL flight of 2010.

On the negative side, I don't know what this means regarding AS's future in general, or specifically, about their SAN-Experiment. It appears that this is undoubtedly now a real battle between DL and AS...

It looks like DL is using 2 CR9s for the new service but I wouldn't be too surprised if at least some mainline a/c don't show up on the flights before the June inaugural of the route.

I continue to feel that 2014 is going to be an interesting year for us here in Sandy Eggo!

bb


User currently offlinelindy field From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 3116 posts, RR: 14
Reply 90, posted (8 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 9491 times:
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Wow, perhaps I ought to go into prophecy-making. I'm a bit disappointed that the new flights will be on CRJs, but I'm glad to see the add. I don't really see this addition as being much of a real threat to Alaska, except in that they might make a bit less money on their flights to Seattle. I'll be curious to see if there's much of a fare war on the SAN-SEA route.

In any case, I'd be hopeful to see the new Delta Connection flights operated with a more comfortable aircraft but time will tell. Let's see if there's a response from Alaska.


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5354 posts, RR: 12
Reply 91, posted (8 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 9438 times:

Quoting lindy field (Reply 90):
In any case, I'd be hopeful to see the new Delta Connection flights operated with a more comfortable aircraft but time will tell. Let's see if there's a response from Alaska.

Okay Lindy, so now let's see how your "717" wish pans out!   I don't even know if the a/c is in use on the w/c now but I would think DL could use a nice little sub-fleet of them based in the west flying up and down the coast. Seems to me like a natural evolution of this whole SEA-thing...

I'm waiting to see what AS does next as well. They've reacted in most of the other markets pretty swiftly with additional capacity plus mileage bonuses and with SAN being a monopoly for them -- unlike most of the other DL-adds -- I would expect to see a strong statement.

That being said, will we see AS simply add a flight or two between SAN and SEA next spring, or might we to see them kick back with, oh I don't know, SAN-ATL (DL/WN market), SAN-SLC (DL monopoly), SAN-MSP (DL/SY market), SAN-DTW (DL monopoly), etc.? This would play extremely nicely into their SAN-growth strategy while jabbing a sharp stick into the stronghold that DL currently has on those hub-markets from Lindbergh... (In fact one of the first things I thought of when I learned that OO's CR7 was going to sit on the ground at SAN for 6 hours between BOI flights, was why not zip it up to SLC and back for a nice midday roundtrip. Apparently that idea, like the majority of mine, didn't make it from my wish-list to the AS operating schedule. Damn!)

bb


User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 785 posts, RR: 2
Reply 92, posted (8 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 9406 times:
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It seemed Spirit was after AS when they added SAN-PDX and SAN-SJD. AS didn't
blink much when they added PDX, now, it looks like Delta wants to go after AS.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 91):
might we to see them kick back with, oh I don't know, SAN-ATL (DL/WN market),

AS adding a SAN-ATL would be a direct shot across DL's bow, but there's WN doing SAN-ATL.
I wonder if three airlines is overkill or will there be enough pax for all three airlines?

I have to agree with everyone else. Crjs from SAN-SEA? While AS is running 737s to SEA.
The one advantage I see is that DL can upgrade to 737s,MD-82s, A319/20s,maybe even an
occasional 757. Maybe DL is initially starting out with regional jets to test the waters on a
SAN-SEA route.



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User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7204 posts, RR: 17
Reply 93, posted (8 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 9327 times:

Sorry to be late for the SAN party 

Love SAN but never been there....love it on flight sims  


How's the JL doing there? I hear periodic upgauges to a 772...is that thing filling up to the brim?



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlinehhslax2 From Bahrain, joined Jan 2012, 122 posts, RR: 0
Reply 94, posted (8 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 9302 times:

Sitting in the new UA lounge with a partially obstructed view (palm trees and what I'm guessing is considered art in the way), I noticed all the UA planes already sitting at the gates. Does UA have enough gates now that they don't need to tow planes to gates in the morning, or at least tow fewer planes to gates?

User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5354 posts, RR: 12
Reply 95, posted (8 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 9258 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 93):
How's the JL doing there? I hear periodic upgauges to a 772...is that thing filling up to the brim?

Welcome to the thread, PHX' I wish I knew what the loads are like; I haven't found anything with the JL numbers. I wasn't aware of T7 upgrades but that's nice to hear. If you can find out any specifics about LFs, etc., please let us know.

Quoting hhslax2 (Reply 94):
I noticed all the UA planes already sitting at the gates. Does UA have enough gates now that they don't need to tow planes to gates in the morning, or at least tow fewer planes to gates?

You should be looking out at the new RON parking for (I think) 10 a/c, right there behind the gates on the west side of T2W. I would assume there were lots of planes still parked there when you posted.

But yes, UA has access to about 7 gates with some overlap with DL, US and SY; T2W is CUTE so any of those gates is available to any of the cx there. And if they can't fit all of their mainline a/c in gates at night, the RON parking is about as convenient as it could be! (BTW, DL has about the same number of RONs as UA so there's a LOT of metal sitting at Lindbergh every night!)

Thanx for the post. From what I've seen,, the UA Club is pretty nice.

bb


User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 785 posts, RR: 2
Reply 96, posted (8 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 9213 times:
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Quoting PHX787 (Reply 93):
How's the JL doing there? I hear periodic upgauges to a 772..

The only upgrades I know about is the 772 they brought in as a substitute when the FAA
grounded the 787. Unless there has been upgrades since then. Next month is the first year
anniversary of JL in SAN. I'd like to know what the pax numbers are myself. We keep hearing
about the numbers from BA (which is good,) but nothing from JL yet.



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User currently offlineAM777LR From Mexico, joined Sep 2013, 206 posts, RR: 0
Reply 97, posted (8 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 9117 times:
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Quoting PHX787 (Reply 93):
I hear periodic upgauges to a 772...is that thing filling up to the brim?
Quoting SANFan (Reply 95):
I wasn't aware of T7 upgrades but that's nice to hear. If you can find out any specifics about LFs, etc., please let us know.
Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 96):
I wasn't aware of T7 upgrades but that's nice to hear. If you can find out any specifics about LFs, etc., please let us know.

Like mentioned in reply 96, it was only used for the months where the 787-8 what grounded. Unlike NH, who completely stopped service to SJC, JA continued operating but with the 772.


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User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5354 posts, RR: 12
Reply 98, posted (8 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 9105 times:

I guess as long as JL keeps the Crane flying daily in and out of Lindbergh, we should assume the loads are good!  

Speaking of Speedbird, the LFs continue to be close to the mid-90s in the summer, less in the Jan-Feb timeframe but apparently doing okay by BA's standards. I've still seen nothing about reducing frequency (regularly) next winter, or down-gauging the equipment (to a 787?); in fact, there's so far been no announcement by BA of those day-by-day schedule reductions that we saw last winter.

I'd like to put the word out to anyone flying AS soon to please report on the status of the ex-UA gates in the West Rotunda (T1W.) Gates 11 thru 14 are officially "empty" these days although 12 thru 14 are certainly being used by AS; AFAIK, gate 11 is totally unused. I'm curious if there are any signs of a future occupant of gate 11, or any of the other "empty" gates (including AS.) Alaska remains mum about any plans regarding their SAN real estate...

Also, I assume gate 15 HAS been converted from UA to AS since that is now officially an AS gate. Or maybe all the gates are being converted to CUTE? Inquiring minds want to know...

While I'm at it, I'd love to know what the status of the east side of T2E is looking like (gates 24, 26 & 28.) There has been quite a bit of remodeling/reconstruction in that concourse lately and it might still be underway. The last I heard was the east wall of the concourse is being pushed out to make a real holding room for those 2 or 3 gates there, plus more room for concessions (of course.)

Also, a mobile-lounge dock (!) is being added -- right next to gate 22 I think -- with sterile access to FIS. I do believe the SDCRAA is optimistically preparing for increased int'l traffic and wants greater ability to accept multiple int'l arrivals. (They may have some other options for this as well but that would probably be a few years away.)

For example, now that Volaris is seemingly again getting serious about serving SAN, and is moving at least one of their flights (MEX) to afternoon timing, Mexico arrivals are getting kind of clumped around 3-5-ish, including AS, NK, and even Speedbird (now earlier op's in the winter.) Nice problem for SDIA to have to deal with, eh?

I don't know if either gate 24 or 26 is in use right now but would sure love a report from anyone flying AA, VX, F9 or NK these days. Thanks in advance.

bb


User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 785 posts, RR: 2
Reply 99, posted (8 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 9073 times:
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Quoting SANFan (Reply 98):
a mobile-lounge dock (!) is being added -- right next to gate 22 I think -- with sterile access to FIS.

They are adding a mobile-lounge dock? I know they were talking about it. I
wonder how many mobile-lounges are they going to add? The good thing
about adding the mobile-lounges is that they could totally remodel the int'l area
without disrupting flights.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 98):
Volaris is seemingly again getting serious about serving SAN, and is moving at least one of their flights (MEX) to afternoon timing,

According to another post, Volaris' Toluca-SAN has just been approved, no date set yet.



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User currently offlineAAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3466 posts, RR: 47
Reply 100, posted (8 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 9066 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 98):
I don't know if either gate 24 or 26 is in use right now but would sure love a report from anyone flying AA, VX, F9 or NK these days. Thanks in advance.

AA uses gate-26 for SAN-JFK morning departures (walked by it this morning). I parked there once... a few weeks ago. Somehow that is just wrong.... making a right turn at SAN.   



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User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5354 posts, RR: 12
Reply 101, posted (8 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 9042 times:

Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 99):
They are adding a mobile-lounge dock?

AFAIK, L. There hasn't been much discussion about this lately at any of the board meetings -- they've been a bit pre-occupied with lots of other things.   But I do see it on some plans from not too long ago and it has been written about. I don't think the mobile lounge itself has been purchased (or received) yet. (I assume it will just show up someday and hopefully someone will notice it; kind of hard to hard a thing like that in some garage!)

Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 99):
According to another post, Volaris' Toluca-SAN has just been approved, no date set yet.

Yes, I've seen that and continue to wonder if SAN will see flights to both Mexico City airports - MEX and TLC. It's very difficult to find any kind of Y4 skeds so all I do is keep checking the route map for any changes.

Of course many think that Y4 might just start sitting on route awards (a la AM) with no particular plans to actually fly them. (And from my experience, Volaris is not real good with media announcements.)

I have seen evidence that SAN-GDL was scheduled to op ~3x wkly starting in Dec (and through at least June 2014) while SAN-MEX was showing ~daily for most of the first half of 2014. I hope this will prove to be correct. (The GDL turn shows to be in SAN ~12:30pm thru ~1:30pm while MEX will be on the ground here from ~2:30pm to 4pm.)

bb


User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 785 posts, RR: 2
Reply 102, posted (8 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 9057 times:
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Quoting SANFan (Reply 98):
I guess as long as JL keeps the Crane flying daily in and out of Lindbergh, we should assume the loads are good!

Remember when JL started flights here last Dec. There were only four flights a week, with
plans to go daily in March (before the 787 groundings). Now since it's daily, I assume the
loads are good. If the flights weren't doing well, JL would have cut back on the flights a long
time ago.



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User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5354 posts, RR: 12
Reply 103, posted (8 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 9046 times:

Quoting AAR90 (Reply 100):
AA uses gate-26 for SAN-JFK morning departures (walked by it this morning). I parked there once... a few weeks ago. Somehow that is just wrong.... making a right turn at SAN.

Yes, I think 26 is sort of an "overflow" gate. It was the one AS was using for a couple of months this past summer to help handle their peak summer schedule until UA vacated their gates in T1W.

AAR', do you remember if gate 24 was operational? Now that I think about it, I'm sure that was the one that was being torn apart and redone.

I do know that AA uses a lot of those "extra" gates in T2E for their RON parking. I also know that the jetway for gate 27 -- a "real" AA gate -- is being relocated to another wall of the concourse; I don't know if that's been done or not.

bb


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7204 posts, RR: 17
Reply 104, posted (8 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 8800 times:

Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 96):
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 93):
How's the JL doing there? I hear periodic upgauges to a 772..

The only upgrades I know about is the 772 they brought in as a substitute when the FAA
grounded the 787

Ah yes that's right. And IIRC it was cut back to 4x/week at that time?

Quoting SANFan (Reply 98):
I guess as long as JL keeps the Crane flying daily in and out of Lindbergh, we should assume the loads are good!
Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 102):
Now since it's daily, I assume the
loads are good. If the flights weren't doing well, JL would have cut back on the flights a long
time ago.

When did it go daily?



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 785 posts, RR: 2
Reply 105, posted (8 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 8766 times:
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Quoting PHX787 (Reply 104):
Ah yes that's right. And IIRC it was cut back to 4x/week at that time?

Actually, they were already four flights a week when they started in Dec.When they
were using the 772 as a substitute, they cut the flights down to three times a week.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 104):
When did it go daily?

When the 787 started flying again, JL went daily on the
SAN-NRT run June 1.



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User currently offlineAAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3466 posts, RR: 47
Reply 106, posted (8 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 8690 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 103):
AAR', do you remember if gate 24 was operational? Now that I think about it, I'm sure that was the one that was being torn apart and redone.

I do know that AA uses a lot of those "extra" gates in T2E for their RON parking. I also know that the jetway for gate 27 -- a "real" AA gate -- is being relocated to another wall of the concourse; I don't know if that's been done or not.

IRT gate-24, I didn't pay attention when walking past this morning, but will look again this afternoon.

IRT RON acft, AA used to park three acft "off-gate" behind 30, 31 & 32 but has been able to utilize unoccupied T2E gates more with the opening of T2W. Not sure how long that will continue though. I departed gate 27 this morning. The acft parking spot is almost the same as original gate-27 spot, but the doorway and jet bridge path were moved a couple of months ago to across the hallway from gate-31. Not nearly enough hallway space for three active flights (gates 27, 29 & 31 within 30' of each other) so AA does some "creative" flight management to try and avoid having ~900 people in the same end-of-hallway. Not sure if gate-27 doorway will return to the main pier or just move farther from the other gates when the foodcourt buildout is completed.

As to the buildout; they were spray covering the ground level steel support structure this morning. Much less heavy equipment on the ramps. Not sure of the schedule, but work is visibly proceeding. We might even see the end of tile installation before T-giving (if we're lucky).



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User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5354 posts, RR: 12
Reply 107, posted (8 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 8681 times:

Hey AAR', thanks so much for the updates on T2E! It would be terrific if you could keep us updated on all that's happening in that terminal since you're there a lot!

AFAIK, the relocation of the gate 27 jetway is permanent and I wondered, when I first saw the plans for the remodeling of T2E, how crowded that bolus of gates at the nw end of the concourse was going to become. That's always been a mess there and now throwing another jetway in the mix seems like a really bad plan. (But we DO need more eateries and shopping opportunities in order to bring in more non-airline revenue for the airport!...) Perhaps some day, the airport will do some sort of remodel to improve the situation there.

I also wonder if the newly redesigned -- and larger -- Admiral's Club has opened yet? That's been kind of an on-going story for a year or so but the last I heard was that it was going to remain an AC and the improvements should be done around the end of the year. With all the OW pax (including BA and JL) now using that space, I hope it will be nice, big, and most of all, finished!

bb


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5354 posts, RR: 12
Reply 108, posted (8 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 8663 times:

I just saw something new regarding AS at SAN and wonder if anyone has any knowledge of what's going on.

AS is apparently using a gate called "16B" now. The BOI flight, the CR7, arrived this morning, and leaves this evening, from this gate designation and it appears that the 6pm turn of the Q -- from STS and to MRY -- is also in that gate. This is new, AFAIK and I do not see any reference to a gate "16A" right now but I'm curious what's the deal?

Maybe they use stairs from the terminal to the tarmac for ground boarding of the smaller planes and they have decided to refer to it separately from the jetway of gate 16. I do still see references to gate 16 as well... at least at this time of the day. Or perhaps they are in the process of making changes to that gate, like a multi-aircraft (for Qs and CR7s) ground-boarding area?

Anyway, curious if anyone has any information on this.

bb


User currently offlinewashingtonflyer From Bouvet Island, joined Sep 2013, 460 posts, RR: 0
Reply 109, posted (8 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 8636 times:

Ya, could be that the move the jet bridge to accomodate one CR7 or Q400 and then use stairs through a door near the jetbridge to get to the other craft. After all, its not like anyone will ever get rained on walking out to the plane.

User currently offlineJAAlbert From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1553 posts, RR: 1
Reply 110, posted (8 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 8595 times:

Quoting AAR90 (Reply 62):
Sat. morning I was asked if we could use Rwy-9 as that was the landing runway. While we replied in the affirmative, ATC decided against that as they already had two planes waiting to use Rwy-27 after a couple more landings and it would be easier to just add us to the list of Rwy-27 departures (also easier on ground traffic movements). Sun. morning we landed on Rwy-9 while one AA 737 was holding short at that end and 3 other planes were holding for Rwy-27 departure (an additional 4 acft were waiting to taxi eastbound to use Rwy-27 as well).
Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 63):
Indeed you do, I've never seen a Rwy 09 departure.

I've seen Rwy-9 departures occasionally, including just this past week. They typically occur during foggy weather and during the tail end of Pacific Storms moving through the area. AAR90's description of planes holding at the end of 27 and 9 simultaneously is also accurate. I've been at the airport on such mornings - it's unsettling watching planes land on both 27 and 9 on the same morning and taking off from both ends of the runway. I've also seen planes holding at the end of 27 and then taxi down to the end of 9. I imagine ATC earns its pay on those mornings!


User currently offlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4770 posts, RR: 26
Reply 111, posted (8 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 8598 times:
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Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 110):
Sat. morning I was asked if we could use Rwy-9 as that was the landing runway. While we replied in the affirmative, ATC decided against that as they already had two planes waiting to use Rwy-27 after a couple more landings and it would be easier to just add us to the list of Rwy-27 departures (also easier on ground traffic movements). Sun. morning we landed on Rwy-9 while one AA 737 was holding short at that end and 3 other planes were holding for Rwy-27 departure (an additional 4 acft were waiting to taxi eastbound to use Rwy-27 as well).
Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 63):
Indeed you do, I've never seen a Rwy 09 departure.

I've seen Rwy-9 departures occasionally, including just this past week. They typically occur during foggy weather and during the tail end of Pacific Storms moving through the area. AAR90's description of planes holding at the end of 27 and 9 simultaneously is also accurate. I've been at the airport on such mornings - it's unsettling watching planes land on both 27 and 9 on the same morning and taking off from both ends of the runway. I've also seen planes holding at the end of 27 and then taxi down to the end of 9. I imagine ATC earns its pay on those mornings!

It's all very common, especially in the mornings this time of year.

Does anyone know what's up with JAL today at SAN? They had two 787s here briefly this morning. The first arrival was early in the morning around 7, and then as that one pushed out a couple hours later a second arrived. Then instead of departing, the second one was towed off to a remote stand on the far west side of the airport where it still sits as of right now.

Unfortunately I was only able to grab a couple crappy cell phone photos today.  



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 785 posts, RR: 2
Reply 112, posted (8 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 8579 times:
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Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 111):
Does anyone know what's up with JAL today at SAN? They had two 787s here briefly this morning. The first arrival was early in the morning around 7, and then as that one pushed out a couple hours later a second arrived.


I was checking Flightaware and one is scheduled to leave tomorrow morning at 7:00am I assume
that's the same one that was sitting on the ground all day. Flight #66 is also scheduled to land
tomorrow around 9:44 am. (It usually arrives around 11:30am.) I'd like to know what's up too!



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User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5354 posts, RR: 12
Reply 113, posted (8 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 8554 times:

Interesting. This same sort of thing happened 2 or 3 months ago didn't it? One flight was delayed and JL sent a second one; I remember the early morning departure and then a second takeoff later in the afternoon. I think it was a mx issue that time...

bb


User currently offlineAAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3466 posts, RR: 47
Reply 114, posted (8 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8554 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 107):

Hey AAR', thanks so much for the updates on T2E! It would be terrific if you could keep us updated on all that's happening in that terminal since you're there a lot!

According to the airport authority, I don't work there and they only very reluctantly grant AA permission to purchase employee parking for flight crews --extremely limited number of parking passes.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 107):
AFAIK, the relocation of the gate 27 jetway is permanent and I wondered, when I first saw the plans for the remodeling of T2E, how crowded that bolus of gates at the nw end of the concourse was going to become. That's always been a mess there and now throwing another jetway in the mix seems like a really bad plan. (But we DO need more eateries and shopping opportunities in order to bring in more non-airline revenue for the airport!...) Perhaps some day, the airport will do some sort of remodel to improve the situation there.

Agree with the need for commercial spaces, but the location of three gates at the end of the concourse is simply.... dumb. The only way to make it work is by NOT using one (or more) of the gates at the same time. Only good thing is the relocation of the restrooms to the east side of the building freeing up more seating/walking space somewhat close to the three gates, but there is barely room for two lines let alone three (or more). Way overcrowded now. Floor tile has made it down the middle of the hallway to gate 31, but nothing on the edges, at the gates, or the (newly increased) seating area. Still a whole lot of work to do on the other side of the building (gates 28, 30, 32). It will be some time before this gets near completed.

As for gate 24, it has been "open" for some time but I don't think anybody uses it regularly. At least not that I've seen. Just basic airport setup at the gate. Nothing airline specific and nothing posted on the departure/arrival boards. Then again it isn't like I stay at the airport for any length of time to begin with.   

Quoting SANFan (Reply 107):
I also wonder if the newly redesigned -- and larger -- Admiral's Club has opened yet? That's been kind of an on-going story for a year or so but the last I heard was that it was going to remain an AC and the improvements should be done around the end of the year. With all the OW pax (including BA and JL) now using that space, I hope it will be nice, big, and most of all, finished!

Don't know about the A.C. I'll have to ask some agents... if I can remember to do so.



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User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 785 posts, RR: 2
Reply 115, posted (8 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8534 times:
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Quoting SANFan (Reply 107):
I also wonder if the newly redesigned -- and larger -- Admiral's Club has opened yet? That's been kind of an on-going story for a year or so but the last I heard was that it was going to remain an AC and the improvements should be done around the end of the year. With all the OW pax (including BA and JL) now using that space, I hope it will be nice, big, and most of all, finished!

When they finish with the Admiral's Club, Its' gotta be at the same caliber as the new United Club and
the new Delta Skyclubs in T-2W. Those clubs are nice!



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User currently offlineAAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3466 posts, RR: 47
Reply 116, posted (8 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 8451 times:

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 111):
Does anyone know what's up with JAL today at SAN?

AA agents just told me the inbound returned to Tokyo so JAL flew two in the next day, but one had mechanical and spent an extra day here.



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User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5354 posts, RR: 12
Reply 117, posted (8 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 8436 times:

Thanks mucho for all the updates on several topics, AAR'. What a great source of info on things-SAN you are!  
Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 115):
When they finish with the Admiral's Club, Its' gotta be at the same caliber as the new United Club and the new Delta Skyclubs in T-2W. Those clubs are nice!

'Morning L-Man. Yes, I'm sure AA is wanting to create a really nice Club to keep up with the other 2 brand new ones in town. And they (AA) have the added incentive of all those int'l travelers of their partners to impress. It should be a pretty nice facility!

bb


User currently offlineL0VE2FLY From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 1533 posts, RR: 0
Reply 118, posted (8 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 8214 times:

Quoting AM777LR (Reply 67):
The terrain and the runway are the big restrictions. If it weren't for those two things, SAN would be more diverse.

That's exactly my point, on the bright side, SAN is doing much better than 2 years ago when we didn't have a single long haul flight.



Quoting AM777LR (Reply 67):
The only plane that would even remotely have a chance of flying to the middle east from SAN is the 777LR. Maybe the 789. Even with these planes, there would be MAJOR restrictions.

Which would make it a moneypit service.



Quoting AM777LR (Reply 67):
Maybe they could fly DXB/AUH/DOH-SAN-PHX-DXB/AUH/DOH, or something like that.

They're more interested in non-stops. I don't think they'll emulate AI's routing model any time soon! Maybe by the time EK start receiving their A350s, plus more 77Ws & A380s and run out of destinations they'll give it a go!



Quoting AM777LR (Reply 67):
I know many people drive to TIJ to catch cheap domestic flights to Mexico on 4O and Y4, my self included, but how many cross to take flights to PVG and NRT. AM's Asia flights are ridiculously expensive. Flights from LAX are much cheaper. I don't know about you, but a two hour drive is better than spending almost $1,000 more on a flight.

You don't even have to drive up to LAX, flights out of SAN to Asia via LAX & SFO are much cheaper than AM out of TIJ.



Quoting AM777LR (Reply 67):
Plus, the border crossings at San Ysidro and Mesa de Otay move at a snails pace. The average wait of like 2 hours to cross back into the US.

That's why a lot of folks are excited about the TIJ-Otay Mesa bridge.



Quoting AM777LR (Reply 67):
Minus the Central American flights.

Although Mexican carriers don't fly to Central & South America out of TIJ, I'm sure there's connections available via MEX.



Quoting AM777LR (Reply 69):
True it does originate in MEX, but it is bookable from TIJ. I recently moved back to the States from the Tijuana area and while living down there, my company sent me to Japan and China. I flew AM from TIJ to NRT, then flew NH from NRT to PVG, and then AM on PVG to TIJ. that flight on the 767-200ER wasn't so bad. I was on XA-TOJ with the new cabin. The 777 flight was decent as well. The loads seemed very healthy on both flights.

Wow! You're probably the world's most accomplished 13-15 year old!  


User currently offlinePSAJet17 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 324 posts, RR: 0
Reply 119, posted (8 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 7869 times:

Technically not SAN related:

The FAA has told CPAir that they will NOT complete the review of the revised application until sometime in 2014.

Story and link to external article here: California Pacific Lays Off All Employees (by enilria Nov 11 2013 in Civil Aviation)


User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 785 posts, RR: 2
Reply 120, posted (8 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 7866 times:
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Quoting PSAJet17 (Reply 119):
The FAA has told CPAir that they will NOT complete the review of the revised application until sometime in 2014.

I was kind of wondering about them lately. I was up in Carlsbad a couple nights ago and I drove
past CLD. I really hope they get more airlines there. It's a shame that they built that new
terminal and only United Express is the only airline using it.



PSA Gives you a lift!
User currently offlineAM777LR From Mexico, joined Sep 2013, 206 posts, RR: 0
Reply 121, posted (8 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 7791 times:
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Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 118):

LOL! I wish I was 13-15! Thanks for notifying me about that!

[Edited 2013-11-11 19:03:22]

User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5354 posts, RR: 12
Reply 122, posted (8 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 7626 times:

Well, with the AA/US merger taking a giant leap forward, what do those of us here -- in San Diego and/or working this thread -- think will happen at SAN as a result?

My main concern is the SAN-DCA flight. Will it continue or will something happen to it? My gut tells me it will be okay but there's also a nagging ache that wonders... It needs to be remembered that the route can be moved to a different city outside of the DCA-perimeter at the will of US.

And might there be some opportunity for AS to re-start their efforts to get DCA-SAN going? I doubt it since that would probably require a whole new beyond-perimeter hearing before Congress. But I can dream...

My guess is that US will move over to T2E (where the current AA lives and operates its Admiral's Club.) Unfortunately I don't see any huge change in routes or even frequencies although I'd love to see something new.

bb


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5354 posts, RR: 12
Reply 123, posted (8 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 7604 times:

I feel like I'm talking to myself here but my main question (from my preceding post) has now been answered (on the 'AA/US Merger'-thread.)
This was posted as part of an email just sent by the carrier to all employees( reply #94 in that thread):

Quote:
> The airlines will keep their perimeter rule exemptions, allowing them to continue nonstop flying to LAX, SAN, PHX, and LAS.

Pheww! Now I can get on with my life!

I really am glad to see AA will finally be flying SAN-DCA rather than US. That probably doesn't really make any sense given that we are talking about the NEW AA (which includes US Airways) but maybe you get the idea.

I do wonder if the timing of the r/t might change to a more SAN-oriented one (such as a morning departure from SAN and an early evening return from Reagan) instead of the usual DCA-centric timing that we now see?

bb


User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 785 posts, RR: 2
Reply 124, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 7534 times:
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Quoting SANFan (Reply 122):
Well, with the AA/US merger taking a giant leap forward, what do those of us here -- in San Diego and/or working this thread -- think will happen at SAN as a result?

I never had any kind of worries that the SAN-DCA flight would go away as
a result of the AA/US merger. The only worry I had if the flight was not
generating money or if the loads were weak. Then we would be in danger
of the flight being dropped. SAN-DCA has been operating for some time now
and I believe it's doing fine.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 123):
I do wonder if the timing of the r/t might change to a more SAN-oriented one (such as a morning departure from SAN and an early evening return from Reagan) instead of the usual DCA-centric timing that we now see?

That could change. If an early morning departure generates larger loads than the usual
DCA timing. We could see larger planes on the route.



PSA Gives you a lift!
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5354 posts, RR: 12
Reply 125, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7466 times:

Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 124):
I never had any kind of worries that the SAN-DCA flight would go away as a result of the AA/US merger. The only worry I had if the flight was not generating money or if the loads were weak. Then we would be in danger of the flight being dropped. SAN-DCA has been operating for some time now and I believe it's doing fine.

If an early morning departure generates larger loads than the usual DCA timing we could see larger planes on the route.

I'm just the opposite. I didn't worry much that the flight would be profitable or successful -- although I always believed that it would have done even better if it belonged to almost any other cx than US. AS, AA and DL would have been my choices... if there had been any choice.

If probable LFs are a good indicator (and I think they are), I think we're good; for the last year, according to the DOT numbers, SAN-DCA has been at or over 200 pdew. Of course not all of them are on the US Airways flight but I'll bet well over half of them usually are. (US's A320 capacity is 150 pax.)

AA uses a 738 on the LAX-DCA r/t with a capacity of 160. They don't seem to be using 752s (cap ~188) on the route but I assume they could (or maybe an A321.) So we could see something bigger once the dust from the merger settles.

bb


User currently offlineAAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3466 posts, RR: 47
Reply 126, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7443 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 125):
AA uses a 738 on the LAX-DCA r/t with a capacity of 160. They don't seem to be using 752s (cap ~188) on the route but I assume they could (or maybe an A321.)

AA began LAX-DCA using 752s but changed to 738s quite a few months ago when AA purchased 27K thrust use at "additional" airports (DCA-LAX flying being the primary beneficiary). All AA 738s are 150 seat configured. Supposedly AA will change all 738s back to the 160 seat configuration but there has been no published schedule.... yet.



*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
User currently offlinelindy field From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 3116 posts, RR: 14
Reply 127, posted (8 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 7362 times:
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I would assume that SAN-DCA will stay for the time being and into the future. I have noticed that of late UA has been operating a 753 frequently on its RON to SAN from IAD. I don't know if this is due to strength of the market or as a kind of competitive response to US.

With the merger, I'd be more concerned about the number of flights to CLT and PHL being cut back as the merged AA tries to route more connections through DFW or other hubs. I certainly don't think this merger will bring any expanded service, except perhaps from the likes of Spirit or other airlines that can undercut AA.

One last bit of SAN news is that I see the FedEx 763 has been in SAN again today on a scheduled morning flight. It's been in and out fairly regularly over the last week. On the other hand, I haven't seen the MD-11 at SAN in a few weeks.

Photo of the day - One that I'll miss when it's gone.
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User currently offlineusctrojan18 From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 92 posts, RR: 0
Reply 128, posted (8 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 7310 times:

Well, I did not expect this thread to go on this long. Great to see all the SAN fans on this website . Also on the DCA topic, I was really pulling for AS to win the DCA-SAN battle. I flew US this summer and was not really impressed by the product or the fares. I'm not saying I want US to fail on that route, I'm just saying I would love for AS to start it. Nothing against US, but I'm a big fan of AS and it's "SAN Experiment".

User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5354 posts, RR: 12
Reply 129, posted (8 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7258 times:

Quoting lindy field (Reply 127):
I certainly don't think this merger will bring any expanded service, except perhaps from the likes of Spirit or other airlines that can undercut AA.

I was thinking about this last night and came up with a fantasy list of a couple of things that would be wonderful to see AA add. I'd really like to see AA double up (again) on JFK nonstops.

Plus, I think it would be super if they re-entered the SAN-STL market. It's a market that should see year-round service -- and WN, for some reason, continues to treat it as a seasonal market -- and I would love to see AA or AS start flying the route full time. (With a code-share, both cx would benefit if either entered the market.)

But honestly, I think we're more likely to see another foreign OneWorld carrier add service here before AA adds anything.

Quoting usctrojan18 (Reply 128):
Also on the DCA topic, I was really pulling for AS to win the DCA-SAN battle. I flew US this summer and was not really impressed by the product or the fares. I'm not saying I want US to fail on that route, I'm just saying I would love for AS to start it. Nothing against US, but I'm a big fan of AS and it's "SAN Experiment".

I think probably most people associated with SAN were hoping AS would get the coveted DCA award (and I'm sure they would have if US hadn't stepped forward toward the last minute and selected our city.)

But at least we now will have AA flying SAN-DCA including, I'm sure, a code-share with AS. When there is another hearing for more beyond-perimeter awards, I hope (expect) AS will again try for SAN-DCA.

BTW usc', it's great to see another "SAN-Experiment" fan!

bb


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5354 posts, RR: 12
Reply 130, posted (8 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 7136 times:

Quoting lindy field (Reply 127):
I have noticed that of late UA has been operating a 753 frequently on its RON to SAN from IAD.

I've also noticed a few 753s showing up on UA's schedules lately. I wonder if we might see more of their larger a/c now that they are op'ing out of their new gates? Seems to me that their old real estate, at T1W, might have been prohibitive for the likes of a 753 or even a 767 on a regular basis. (I know that they have had, over the years, a few wide-bodies here -- such as sports charters, etc. -- but that was very rare and might have even affected WN ops behind them.) Now over at T2W, there should be no concerns about the size a/c they can fly in and out of Lindbergh.

I also wanted to mention that SAN-CLE is again back for the Holidays. Just a red-eye turn a few times between T'giving and the end of the year but I guess that's better than nothing...

bb


User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 785 posts, RR: 2
Reply 131, posted (8 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7111 times:
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Quoting SANFan (Reply 129):
usc', it's great to see another "SAN-Experiment" fan!
Quoting SANFan (Reply 130):
I've also noticed a few 753s showing up on UA's schedules lately. I wonder if we might see more of their larger a/c now that they are op'ing out of their new gates? Seems to me that their old real estate, at T1W, might have been prohibitive for the likes of a 753 or even a 767 on a regular basis.

That's really interesting! Remember when DL was bringing in 753s a few months ago?
It may be those new gates in T-2W that are allowing 753s these days. A few
people remember, in the early 80s, before WN got as big as they are now out
of SAN, UA used to be located in T-1E (where WN is located),back then UA used
to bring in the widebodies. I remember going on a family vacation to HNL in 1982
on a UA DC-10, not to mention the 762s, 747, DC-10s, and the re-engined DC-8s
that frequented T-1E at the time. I hope the new gates will signal a return to widebody
service by UA.



PSA Gives you a lift!
User currently offlinehawaiian717 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3188 posts, RR: 7
Reply 132, posted (8 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 6898 times:

I was on the east coast this week and flew back today, getting into SAN around 12:30. Noticed a few things.

Allegiant 757 was parked at Landmark. Saw it taking off as I was driving home, checked on FlightAware and discovered it came in from LAS and headed to HNL. There were a few other interesting aircraft there too that I caught a brief glimpse of, including one that looked like a Saab 2000. Saw a 727, M-STAR when I left on Tuesday morning, not sure if it was still here when I came back.

Looks like our fall foggy night diversions have started. I was surprised to see the HA A330 parked at the gate when I landed. HA at 22, Volaris at 21, and JAL at 20 all at the same time. More digging around showed that HA16 diverted to LAX last night, the plane came down this morning. Also looked like F9, UA, and AA all had LAX-SAN ferry flights too.

I noticed when I flew in a couple weeks ago a SkyWest-livery CRJ-200 parked at T1W. It was there again today. Figured out that it's the BOI flight. I hadn't realized SkyWest was operating the CR2 for Alaska, only the CR7.


User currently offlineatcgod From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 661 posts, RR: 2
Reply 133, posted (8 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 6866 times:

Quoting hawaiian717 (Reply 132):
I noticed when I flew in a couple weeks ago a SkyWest-livery CRJ-200 parked at T1W. It was there again today. Figured out that it's the BOI flight. I hadn't realized SkyWest was operating the CR2 for Alaska, only the CR7.

That's correct...the CRJ2 comes in from PDX and then departs for SAN. It also returns to PDX after arriving from SAN. If they are moving to a Q400 as stated in other posts, then it's actually a capacity upgrade for the route.


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5354 posts, RR: 12
Reply 134, posted (8 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 6817 times:

Quoting hawaiian717 (Reply 132):
Noticed a few things.

Thanks for all the sightings D. I wonder if that G4 757 was a revenue flight or ferry or charter... Interesting especially since we don't see any scheduled G4 around here now.

Quoting hawaiian717 (Reply 132):
I noticed when I flew in a couple weeks ago a SkyWest-livery CRJ-200 parked at T1W. It was there again today. Figured out that it's the BOI flight. I hadn't realized SkyWest was operating the CR2 for Alaska, only the CR7.
Quoting atcgod (Reply 133):
That's correct...the CRJ2 comes in from PDX and then departs for SAN. It also returns to PDX after arriving from SAN. If they are moving to a Q400 as stated in other posts, then it's actually a capacity upgrade for the route.

This is all VERY interesting and a bit disturbing to me. I just checked and AS's fleet info on their website does indeed show no CR2s being flown; only the CR7.

Also, the initial announcement of the service back in late June reported:

Quote:
SkyWest Airlines will operate the new San Diego-Boise flights for Alaska using a 70-seat CRJ-700 regional jet.

According to FlightAware, PDX-BOI-SAN-BOI-PDX has in fact been op'd with a CR2 since the flights began 2 weeks ago. The other new routes started with these "new" (returning) CR7s -- PDX-TUS, SEA-COS and SEA-OMA -- are actually being flown with the 70-seaters (CR7s)!

So what's going on? Is the 6-hour turn at SAN (between the 11:30am arrival from BOI and the 5:30pm return to BOI) BECAUSE of this odd a/c assignment or, perhaps, is the use of this particular a/c because of the 6-hour layover? Was there some sort of problem with OO/AS getting all 3 of the expected CR7s back in time for these new routes? So OO rummaged around and found a last-minute replacement that they threw on the BOI-SAN-BOI route? (And what they came up with is a plane that isn't even part of AS's fleet according to their own website...)

What I see on AS's booking engine right now is the "CRJ" runs through 11/26, then there is no service at all on the route until a week later (?) when the Q400 starts flying the route on Dec 2! Then, on Mar 2, the flight supposedly (finally) becomes a CR7. And, as of now at least, AS continues sitting this airplane on the ground at SAN, for 6 hours, in the middle of the day, for 4 months! I don't know what to think at this point...

bb


User currently offlinehawaiian717 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3188 posts, RR: 7
Reply 135, posted (8 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 6810 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 134):
I wonder if that G4 757 was a revenue flight or ferry or charter... Interesting especially since we don't see any scheduled G4 around here now.

Considering it was parked at Landmark Aviation and not the terminal, I'm thinking it was a charter. Came in as AAY4401 at 10:00am and left as AAY4402 at1:29pm. Tail number N904NV.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/A...1/history/20131115/1650Z/KLAS/KSAN

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/A...2/history/20131115/2000Z/KSAN/PHNL

And it looks like Allegiant scheduled flights will be back in February with Thursday and Sunday service to Bellingham.


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5354 posts, RR: 12
Reply 136, posted (8 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 6779 times:

Quoting hawaiian717 (Reply 135):
Considering it was parked at Landmark Aviation and not the terminal, I'm thinking it was a charter.

Maybe a college sports charter.

Quoting hawaiian717 (Reply 135):
And it looks like Allegiant scheduled flights will be back in February with Thursday and Sunday service to Bellingham.

That's great to hear. What a strange "seasonal" schedule they're working here. The BLI-SAN service ended in mid-August and will re-start in mid-February? That seems to be skipping over some solid travel times between northern Washington/southern BC and So Cal! Plus there's no service these days between YVR and SAN so that traffic is not being served either... (I also notice that today the G4 route map shows SAN-BLI as "active", not "seasonal".)

Anyway, thanks again for the info.

bb


User currently offlineJAAlbert From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1553 posts, RR: 1
Reply 137, posted (8 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6665 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 86):
Maybe at that time, AS will come up with something to use the plane for rather than just sitting in SAN for 6 hours!

A quick hop or two to Palm Springs would be nice!

Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 102):
I assume the
loads are good. If the flights weren't doing well, JL would have cut back on the flights a long
time ago.

I played around with a couple of dummy bookings on the JAL site between SAN and NRT. In economy, a few flights had about 20 seats left, but most flights had five or less. The business cabin was virtually sold out. One concern is that - as of this evening - you can still book a round-trip economy class ticket SAN-NRT for $1,145, and a business class ticket for $3,200, which are the same fares as if you booked the tickets months in advance. The pricing suggests that yield might be an issue for the flight.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 129):
I'd really like to see AA double up (again) on JFK nonstops.

Bring back the 767s!!!


User currently offlinesan88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 111 posts, RR: 1
Reply 138, posted (8 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6613 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 136):

I'm assuming its SDSU, Aztecs are playing University of Hawaii at Manoa tonight 11/16



sit on the Captain side when you fly into SAN
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5354 posts, RR: 12
Reply 139, posted (8 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 6562 times:

Quoting san88 (Reply 138):
I'm assuming its SDSU, Aztecs are playing University of Hawaii at Manoa tonight 11/16.

And I even went to SDSU's sports page and somehow missed it! I better get myself some new glasses or a new brain... Thanks for finding that.

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 137):
A quick hop or two to Palm Springs would be nice!

I'm amazed that AS couldn't come up with ANYTHING to do with a small plane for 6 hours each day, for a 4-month period... No possible ski destination that could be marketed in SAN, nor any cold-weather place that would welcome flights to SAN during the winter? No other weather-neutral city that could be connected to SAN at any time of year? I guess not.

To change the subject, I thought I'd share a local fact involving the AA-US merge that I find kind of cool.

Our fair city is one of not-too-many that has the distinction of currently seeing service to all 9 of the combined hubs of both cx in this merger: CLT, DCA, DFW, JFK, LAX, MIA, ORD, PHL and PHX. Obviously most of the hubs themselves share this status, plus a lot of the country's largest cities, but there probably aren't all that many other outstations that can make that claim.

Along those same lines, I just did a combined SAN turn-schedule for AA and US for early-November (when DST ended) and a total of 34 daily departures are offered. (Eagle to LA is included.) That's to, you guessed it, 9 destinations meaning there's not a single flight to anyplace other than the hubs! (But at least we are fortunate to have ALL of them!) It will be interesting to see what that number is in say, a year. (I'll get back to you all on that in Christmas of 2014.)

Finally, some are predicting that the NEW AA, post-merger, will be adding some new p-2-p routes -- in mostly business-oriented markets -- to supplement their hub-flying. Who knows, just maybe SAN will see one or two of those at some point.

I personally am going to remain as optimistic as I can that this merger will be positive for San Diego.  

bb


User currently offlineL0VE2FLY From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 1533 posts, RR: 0
Reply 140, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 6376 times:

Quoting PSAJet17 (Reply 119):
Technically not SAN related:

The FAA has told CPAir that they will NOT complete the review of the revised application until sometime in 2014.

Story and link to external article here: California Pacific Lays Off All Employees (by enilria Nov 11 2013 in Civil Aviati

I suggest using the title "San Diego Aviation Thread" for future/follow-up threads.


User currently offlineCdnCactus From Canada, joined Mar 2013, 157 posts, RR: 0
Reply 141, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 6372 times:

Just chiming in: I went through SAN Terminal 2 to catch the United flight to SFO yesterday. Very impressed by what I saw. Clean, airy, easy to navigate (of course memories of LAX confusion 2 days before still fresh in my mind). Line at TSA was long but moving quite swiftly. Appreciate the charging plugs at most of the chairs near the gates.

The "Pet Relief" room's a hoot.

I only wish for my own selfish purposes that there's a regularly scheduled direct flight from YVR-SAN, instead of seasonal.


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5354 posts, RR: 12
Reply 142, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6292 times:

Quoting CdnCactus (Reply 141):
I only wish for my own selfish purposes that there's a regularly scheduled direct flight from YVR-SAN, instead of seasonal.

Seasonal? There's NO seasonal, no service at all, these days between YVR and SAN. I don't know if there is an available source for US-Canada air traffic stats but I would bet that SAN-YVR has to be one of the largest un-served trans-border markets, certainly in the west. Believe me, you are not the only one wishing service would return! (And I do believe that includes those in Route Planning and Development at SDIA!)

The other factor that needs to be considered is that there currently is not even service out of BLI to SAN; SEA is the closest nonstop from SAN to British Columbia. And that's pretty sad. (G4 is apparently going to return to the BLI-SAN market in mid-February.)

I keep hoping that either AS or WS will give SAN-YVR a try sooner rather than later...

BTW, it's nice to hear another positive report on the Green Build. Thanks for your comments.

bb


User currently offlineCdnCactus From Canada, joined Mar 2013, 157 posts, RR: 0
Reply 143, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6270 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 142):
Seasonal? There's NO seasonal, no service at all, these days between YVR and SAN.

Didn't AC used to have non-stop flight to SAN, or am I showing my age again. Problem with taking mainly AC and WS flights is that eventually it's all a blur. Damn.

By the way, my United flight to SFO was packed to the gills, with almost a dozen standbys. From a quick glance at others' passports Canadians were well represented. Granted that was an AC code-share but obviously we Canucks are making our way to SAN. SFO is an okay airport to transit through, but LAX is seriously a very large pain in the behind when I transited to SAN. There must be some industry insider reasoning for not having a non-stop YVR-SAN flight then, because as a plain passenger, I don't understand it.

Just looking at the pictures I took of Terminal 2...yep, still very impressed. Good send off from a beautiful city. (I came in through the commuter terminal so not the prettiest welcome)


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5354 posts, RR: 12
Reply 144, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6151 times:

Quoting CdnCactus (Reply 143):
Didn't AC used to have non-stop flight to SAN, or am I showing my age again.

Yes, AC flew daily, year-'round, nonstop service between SAN and YVR from Dec 2005 until Oct 2012 - almost 7 years without interruption or major changes of any kind -- then they abruptly pulled the route. (The service began with a Jazz CR7 and eventually ended up mainline AC operated with an E190.)

I never heard an official reason for the axing of the route but it was apparently some sort of complicated cost issue somehow related to crew or the economics of the a/c... I would love to find out why such a stable and long-lived route suddenly ended. And now it's been over a year and nobody else has taken over so I'm wondering if it will return anytime soon..

BTW, AS, HP, and CP also have served the route over the years. It's also interesting to note that WS apparently can fill a daily 737 from SNA and PSP (seasonally) to YVR but apparently doesn't seem to think they can make SAN work... (They also connect YVR with LAX, LAS, and PHX in the southwest U.S.)

bb


User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2740 posts, RR: 1
Reply 145, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6120 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 142):
I don't know if there is an available source for US-Canada air traffic stats

For 2011, the total daily traffic between SAN-YVR is 169 pax, or about 85 PDEW. This I think is enough for some carrier to have a daily flights between the two.

http://www.brookings.edu/research/interactives/aviation

And for any future U.S. metro area ex-boarder air traffic, the site above is as best and comprehensive as I have yet to find. Some have question the accuracy of this in some instances, but if this thing is 90%+ in accuracy (I think that it's probably even better than that) it'll give tremendous amount of info. Find the two blue "here" on the page for the pull-down menus that are there, and then knowing simple math can further assist with a lot of data. This study is based on the years of 2003 and 2011.

 


User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 785 posts, RR: 2
Reply 146, posted (8 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 6064 times:
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