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What's Going On In CLE - Part 4  
User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4383 posts, RR: 6
Posted (10 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 23529 times:
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Due to length of part three here is part four.

Part three: What's Going On In CLE - Part 3 (by iowaman May 13 2013 in Civil Aviation)


Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD. Return: US SJD-PHX, WN PHX-MDW-DSM
263 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineATLFlyer323 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 614 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (10 months 4 days ago) and read 23488 times:

I'm going on what MasseyBrown said on the 3rd thread about CPE's. How can CLE get that number down? Is it done through pay reductions or staff layoff only or are their other factors like getting more retail space rented that brings more revenue to the airport so they can cut deals in other areas? I'm not familiar with how this works, so I'm just asking as a curious mind.

Being new to the NE Ohio area I enjoy using both CAK and CLE. CAK is an awesome little airport and CLE has been a nice hub base when I needed more options on flights and times.

-ATLFlyer323



Everyday, the fluffy temptation of wheat!
User currently offlinefun2fly From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1035 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (10 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 23303 times:

Quoting ATLFlyer323 (Reply 1):
I'm going on what MasseyBrown said on the 3rd thread about CPE's. How can CLE get that number down?

Some of it surely rests on going from 13mm pax to 9mm. I just checked the CLE website and no 2013 pax updates since Jan. Anyone have any updates? Hopefully an increase vs. previous years to help get costs down.


User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5401 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (10 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 23193 times:

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 2):
Anyone have any updates? Hopefully an increase vs. previous years to help get costs down.

According to http://www.transtats.bts.gov/airports.asp

Traffic (domestic only) for the twelve months ending June 2013 was 8,462,000 down slightly by 23, 000 from June, 2012. Traffic declined less than capacity, thus producing higher load factors. There is deductive evidence that O&D actually increased, so the slight loss is attributable to UA deliberately reducing connecting traffic over CLE.

The decline in CLE traffic since the UA/CO merger was proposed (CO started cuts before the merger was consumated) has been the major contributor to the huge rise in CPE, but it's not the whole story. Governments always have a *really* hard time bringing down costs, which is what CLE needs to do. Costs have declined *much* less than traffic. But, as I said, it's hard to cut. For example, how much can you reduce the CLE fire department because traffic declined from 10MM to 8MM? Answer: almost nothing. It's the same with all airside expenses.

I wonder how much of the City Hall Port Control Department is charged against the airport that could be charged against other functions. The top is always a place to start looking.  



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlinefun2fly From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1035 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (10 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 23159 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 3):
I wonder how much of the City Hall Port Control Department is charged against the airport that could be charged against other functions. The top is always a place to start looking.

Or at least charged to the biggest albatross of them all BURKE! In all seriousness, they will need to do their best to cut costs to be competitive down the line. What options are realistic? Mothball Concourse A?

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 3):
Traffic (domestic only) for the twelve months ending June 2013 was 8,462,000 down slightly by 23, 000 from June, 2012. Traffic declined less than capacity, thus producing higher load factors.

In prior posts, we were seeing greater international traffic, I guess that's the only way CLE will grow in 2013.


User currently offlinecle757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1130 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (10 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 22993 times:

It would be nice to see the city give some sort of an incentive for UA to add LHR or FRA, but maybe UA is just not interested in CLE.


Cleveland the best location in the Nation
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5401 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (10 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 22951 times:

Quoting cle757 (Reply 5):
It would be nice to see the city give some sort of an incentive for UA to add LHR or FRA, but maybe UA is just not interested in CLE.

Apparently the city is willing to put up the seed money for Cleveland-Europe (via the St. Lawrence Seaway) container ships. Maybe if that works out, they can try seeding some air service next.  

In other Cleveland aviation news, Kenn Ricci's empire just grew again, acquiring Avionics Supply, of Denton, Tx, via Resilience Capital Fund III. Resilience is fund that buys, fixes up, and sells smallish companies lately all aviation-related. This acquisition is apparently intended to work with, and perhaps become a part of Directioal Aviation's Aerospace Products, Intl. (another Ricci company) along with Nextant, Constant, Flight Options, Sentient, FlexJet, etc..



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineATLFlyer323 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 614 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (10 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 22920 times:

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 4):
What options are realistic? Mothball Concourse A?

I believe *don't kill me if I'm wrong* the international gate(s?) and customs facility is done through Terminal A. So they would have to fix that before they could mothball Terminal A. I know CLE isn't a major international gateway, but there is seasonal/charter flights that use the customs facility at times. They would have better luck maybe mothballing B? I don't see CLE needing 4 concourses if UA continues to cut flights.

-ATLFlyer323



Everyday, the fluffy temptation of wheat!
User currently offlinembm3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 839 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (10 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 22867 times:
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Quoting cle757 (Reply 5):
It would be nice to see the city give some sort of an incentive for UA to add LHR or FRA, but maybe UA is just not interested in CLE.

It is not a matter of incentive or potential revenue - the cargo alone would most likely make the FRA profitable - but rather that 1970s embarrassment of a customs/immigration facility in Terminal A. It was a logistical & customer service nightmare when CO had the CDG / LHR flights on the 752s and the notion of using a 767 is not something even UA will consider as it simply will not work. There is not enough space for that volume of passengers and premium passengers will not tolerate the minibus to baggage claim....



Let Me Tell You, Landing A 772ER Is Harder Than It Looks!
User currently offlinejoeman From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 707 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (10 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 22846 times:

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 4):
we were seeing greater international traffic, I guess that's the only way CLE will grow in 2013.

Long live the other UA and other carrier hubs with CLE support

Quoting mbm3 (Reply 8):
that 1970s embarrassment of a customs/immigration facility in Terminal A.

Can hardly believe a 1 or 2 gate improvement is not a priority

Quoting cle757 (Reply 5):
It would be nice to see the city give some sort of an incentive for UA to add LHR or FRA, but maybe UA is just not interested in CLE.

I agree but one way cash and prizes have gotten kinda old by now


User currently offlinembm3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 839 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (10 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 22689 times:
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Quoting joeman (Reply 9):
Can hardly believe a 1 or 2 gate improvement is not a priority

It is not the gates that is an issue, it is finding a better location for the FIS facility that is larger, has modern equipment and does not require ALL passengers to clear TSA inspection. The later is why CO knocked a hole in the wall and bused passengers to baggage claim during the last year of TATL service.

Prior to the mergers, CO was enticing NW to move to Terminal A so they could have all of Terminal C and potentially work with the airport to open a new FIS near C4. NW balked as they didn't want their premium pax to be so far away from the Presidents Club....

Fast forward to today and it is my understanding that a new FIS facility is being considered near the location of the current ATC tower, which means it could be made accessible to gates in B & C and provide direct access to the arrivals area. This will, of course, will require the new tower to be completed, the old tower demolished and federal funding being made available....

Oh, and contrary to all of the CLE gloom and doom naysayers, the rumor of CLE-TLV was indeed more fact than fiction. As someone who went through the current facility with the CGG, LHR and CUN flights all landing within the same hour, the thought of a packed 777 offloading at the end of Terminal A makes me shudder.



Let Me Tell You, Landing A 772ER Is Harder Than It Looks!
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5401 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (10 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 22668 times:

Quoting mbm3 (Reply 10):
Fast forward to today and it is my understanding that a new FIS facility is being considered near the location of the current ATC tower,

My hope is that the city and UA, when the UA directors meet next June in CLE, will announce a new FIS project along with a UA committment for restoration of CLE-Europe service in the spring of 2015. At the pace of progress these days, the FIS couldn't possibly be ready for summer 2015 flights, but maybe UA would put up with the old facility for a year or so.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlinefun2fly From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1035 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (10 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 22653 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 11):
My hope is that the city and UA, when the UA directors meet next June in CLE, will announce a new FIS project along with a UA committment for restoration of CLE-Europe service in the spring of 2015. At the pace of progress these days, the FIS couldn't possibly be ready for summer 2015 flights, but maybe UA would put up with the old facility for a year or so.

Sure hope that is right - seems plausible since the BOD is coming to town. A 2 class 763 to FRA including the air freight should be a winner. All those trucking companies that shuttle things to ORD and NYC for air freight will be at a loss. On the positive side, should save a day's transit for CLE airfreight customers, not to mention the pax not having to go via EWR!


User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5401 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (10 months 9 hours ago) and read 22480 times:

During the UA Q3 conference call a question was asked about shifting resources from hub to hub. Smisek's only reply was "Every hub has to earn its right to be a hub every day." This isn't any different from what he has said in the past and there was no discussion of relative hub profitability except a hint that EWR was seeing weaker O&D performance (transcon in particular) and was looking at more connecting traffic especially transatlantic. That development argues against any transatlantic flights for CLE.


I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently onlineAVENSAB727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 920 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (10 months 9 hours ago) and read 22466 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 13):

I see the point that Smisek said, I wonder how IAH has done this quarter.



Always look on the bright side of Life!
User currently offlineLoneStarMike From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 3811 posts, RR: 34
Reply 15, posted (10 months 8 hours ago) and read 22423 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 3):
There is deductive evidence that O&D actually increased, so the slight loss is attributable to UA deliberately reducing connecting traffic over CLE.

If O&D is increasing, the airport has a better chance of increasing it's revenue from parking. Also, what about taxes on rental cars? Don't some of the taxes on cars rented at the airport provide revenue for the airport? Obviously, connecting passengers flying through CLE don't pay to park, nor do they rent cars. O&D passengers do (at least some of them.) The more non-airline revenue the airport can raise from things like parking and rental car taxes, the less CLE will have to charge the airlines. That should bring the airline's costs down.

LoneStarMike

[Edited 2013-10-24 10:43:17]

User currently offlinecle757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1130 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (10 months 7 hours ago) and read 22407 times:

With the high airfares out of CLE you would think UA would add some mainline flights, like CLE-SAN.


Cleveland the best location in the Nation
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5401 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (10 months 6 hours ago) and read 22369 times:

More about UA hubs in this Bloomberg report:

http://www.businessweek.com/articles...ave-hubs-hurt-too?campaign_id=yhoo

Interesting that the report disparages legacy-UA hubs.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlinejoeman From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 707 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (9 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 22262 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 13):
a hint that EWR was seeing weaker O&D performance (transcon in particular) and was looking at more connecting traffic especially transatlantic. That development argues against any transatlantic flights for CLE.

Certainly does. Basically, make the almighty NYC/EWR and ORD work at any expense, that is CLE expense in the UA case


User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5401 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (9 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 22113 times:

The IATA slot conference, whereat the airlines firm up their summer transatlantic schedules, is in Ft. Worth TX 14-17 November this year. We should announcements of Summer 2014 plans beginning a week or so later. I don't have any hopes for CLE this year, but next year ... maybe ...


I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlinembm3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 839 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (9 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 22077 times:
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Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 11):
My hope is that the city and UA, when the UA directors meet next June in CLE, will announce a new FIS project along with a UA committment for restoration of CLE-Europe service in the spring of 2015. At the pace of progress these days, the FIS couldn't possibly be ready for summer 2015 flights, but maybe UA would put up with the old facility for a year or so.

I agree!

Quoting cle757 (Reply 16):
With the high airfares out of CLE you would think UA would add some mainline flights, like CLE-SAN.

CLE-SAN is on and off the schedule, I am sure dictated by some arrangement with a cruise line.



Let Me Tell You, Landing A 772ER Is Harder Than It Looks!
User currently offlinecle757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1130 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (9 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 21999 times:

http://www.cleveland.com/business/in...pe_express_has_b.html#incart_river Business in CLE seems to be really picking up, the new medical mart,convention center and finally new hotels!..I hope United has noticed!


Cleveland the best location in the Nation
User currently offlinejoeman From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 707 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (9 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 21976 times:

Quoting cle757 (Reply 21):
http://www.cleveland.com/business/in...pe_express_has_b.html#incart_river Business in CLE seems to be really picking up, the new medical mart,convention center and finally new hotels!..I hope United has noticed!

EXCELLENT news on direct Cleveland-Europe shipping via sea in the article and citing the latest local improvements!


User currently offlinecle757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1130 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (9 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 21940 times:

With the recent tarmac delay fines maybe UA should consider adding flights at CLE.


Cleveland the best location in the Nation
User currently offlinejoeman From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 707 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (9 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 21890 times:

Quoting cle757 (Reply 23):
With the recent tarmac delay fines maybe UA should consider adding flights at CLE.

Couldn't help think and laugh at the same thing, and contemplate my last CLE-LAS itinerary via ORD (cheaper fare than nonstop) horror experience, but:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 13):
a hint that EWR was seeing weaker O&D performance (transcon in particular) and was looking at more connecting traffic especially transatlantic.

....they already have flight saturation at EWR too so it can probably only be enhanced by better marketing/service and or lower fares (not sure how...I've flown CLE-MCO via EWR for substantially less than their smathering of uncompetitive nonstop CLE-MCO service for example), or diverting available connecting traffic from nearby IAD, ORD or naturally CLE which has already relinguished more than its fair share. But the other three have to work simply because they are who they are and according to above UA may already be be giving their little CLE EAS routes to IAD in the near future.

I'll believe UA dedication when I see it, and reinstating a couple routes for an undetermined length of time, calling them new, and cutting others doesn't really fit the bill. I've sure gone via ORD, EWR and IAD a lot for a "hub" in my own back yard and I'm not talking to international destinations or cow town USA.


25 joeman : CLE supporters should check out the thread: Hubs Hurting UA's Financial Performance? Guess it isn't all about CLE being a drag, but now that Smisek ha
26 Post contains links cle757 : http://www.clevelandplusbusiness.com...-Northeast-Ohio-Jobs-Expected.aspx Well it seems like things in the Cleveland area are improving, so hopefully
27 MasseyBrown : There has been some management turnover at Silver which has spawned a new flock of new rumors. The talk is that crew domiciles will be relocated to hu
28 joeman : I wonder if there's any other industry where profit centers are considered in such a way and if this is a problem for UA as well.
29 MasseyBrown : My little joke ... sorry. While CLE is profitable for Silver, it apparently isn't profitable enough to make two aircraft types an efficient operation
30 joeman : And my little sarcasm, I totally understand. It's just that there's been some suggestion by others on CLE threads in the past that the gradual reduct
31 fun2fly : Effective October 29, 2013 all Air Canada departures will now depart from Concourse D gate 21. Hard to believe they gave up that gem they used to have
32 cle757 : And C-21 has already had lines repainted for larger aircraft
33 Post contains images ATLFlyer323 : Pardon my ignorance, what was great about their gate before? I don't know. -ATLFlyer323
34 fun2fly : I did not know they moved to C 21. Their old one require you to walk down stairs, onto the tarmac onto the plane. Brutal in the CLE winter. Haven't f
35 Post contains images ATLFlyer323 : Ha, you're so funny! One could always hope... but I don't think that's the case. UA has plenty of gates to fit their mainline flights.... or at least
36 N766UA : Has anyone commented on the gradual buildup of E170 flying? I noticed that DFW and BDL got added recently; certainly upgrades from the all-ERJ service
37 fun2fly : I saw 3x to BOS + AUS. As the 50 seaters are retired, we should see more of this. I do wonder why UA does not take the philosophy that DL took w/thes
38 ATLFlyer323 : And they are wonderful aircraft, I actually prefer the 170's over 737 and 320's! No middle seat! Very true! -ATLFlyer323
39 MasseyBrown : DL has been operating a bunch of charters out of CLE with 88xx flight numbers in the last week to BWI (763), MIA (319), SLC (319), DTW (763) ... The o
40 fun2fly : CAVS were out of town in CLT and IND. From last week's trip to CLE, I see that the uncovered long term parking is nearly done. Good timing, it snowed
41 chrisjake : The Miami charter was the Brooklyn Nets going to their next game after playing at CLE. Maybe the SLC charter was a ferry flight also? Chris
42 Post contains links cle757 : http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/loc...ared-to-2006-will-be-night-and-day some more good news for the Cleveland area!
43 MasseyBrown : Do you really want *those* conventions? Seems as if most cities regret it after getting them. Even upfront the host cities often admit they do it for
44 MasseyBrown : It's apparently official: Silver has made CLE a crew domicile.
45 ATLFlyer323 : This is great news, does that mean we can expect more flights out of CLE on Silver, or just expect to hopefully not lose any?
46 MasseyBrown : Silver had been basing its crews in outstations instead of hubs, which they felt saved them some hotel bills. The crews, however, hated it because, i
47 Post contains links MasseyBrown : Frontier adding CLE-TTN flights February 13th: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/fronti...html;_ylt=A2KLOzH54ntSxEkA2m7QtDMD
48 mbm3 : One wonders if this will affect the DEN service?
49 freeze3192 : ? They moved to D21, which will require the same thing. The prop on the Dash 8 100/200/300 is too close to the door to allow using a jetway. Plus all
50 fun2fly : So, in one year Frontier added DEN, CUN and TTN. Not bad.
51 MasseyBrown : + PUJ twice a week. DEN and CUN stay the same at 5/wk. TTN starts at 3/wk and goes to 4 in May. Not bad for a "dying" airline that Republic is having
52 joeman : Excellent news for a change. I'll be booking a flight this weekend for a New York spring fling and thru CLE no less!!!! So no comments about the BA t
53 ATLFlyer323 : Wow using CLE for a connection? lol. What is your routing/aircraft types?
54 fun2fly : If CLE & UA does not announce TATL service as part of their Board Meeting in 2014 in CLE, then CLE has no hub loyalty when chasing TATL service a
55 Post contains images point2point : DEN doesn't even have any UA TALT nonstops. The last thing that I'm wanting to do is to flame here, but DEN has about 5 times as much O&D DEN-LON
56 joeman : Who said connection? My routing/aircraft will be CLE-TNN-CLE using an A319. Do a.netters, especially the aristocrats coming from superhub land by hap
57 fun2fly : Correct, they have JV metal neutral LH operations on VLA's. It's the same thing. Which is why I suggested that UA would launch FRA. Not sure if you a
58 Post contains images point2point : Not so much giving up, just saying it's probably quite difficult for UA at CLE, considering UA may have other priorities. And maybe that could includ
59 Post contains images MasseyBrown : Compared to the cost of a convention center or a sports stadium it is; but if you want Sherwin-Williams or Eaton to put their cash on the line, it be
60 ATLFlyer323 : I hope that wasn't geared towards me, I am a CLE supporter. I was excited to hear of someone using CLE for a connection, I wasn't trying to be rude o
61 joeman : Sorry ATLFlyer323...thought you'd be an ATL guy, you know, where 70%+ or something is about connections....
62 ATLFlyer323 : I grew up in ATL but have since moved to NE Ohio for work. (My family is from Ohio too, so I've been coming here every summer since I was young). So
63 fun2fly : What's a years worth of landing fees worth in $? Isn't that usually part of the seed $? As for the Clinic, if the connections CLE>FRA>AUH line
64 Post contains images ncflyer : Hard to tell from my handle but I'm a Clevelander and this thread is just plain dull, through no fault of the excellent participants! Nothing changes
65 MasseyBrown : The whole industry is kind of dull since the big guys quit expanding. It's a lot more fun talking about adding flights than losing them. The mergers
66 MasseyBrown : DL is discontinuing FNT-DTW after Christmas, switching service to MSP. Assuming everybody doesn't drive to DTW, That our to give a boost to the FNT-CL
67 joeman : Sums it up perfectly
68 coairman : I agree about CLE aviation news being dull. The hub is stagnant and not getting bigger. A new Beechcraft Silver crew base is not anything to brag or c
69 greenair727 : Ricky Smith is pay $67 million for two parking lots??!? This will not increase parking by one spot, but just gives the city 'control' of parking. As P
70 MasseyBrown : Well ... they're borrowing $100 million but only spending $57+16 on the lots. Where is the other $27 going? A FIS less elaborate than that Taj Mahal
71 greenair727 : ^are you saying maybe they would use some or all of the remaining $27m for a new or improved FIS? If that were the case, I'd be happy about that if it
72 MasseyBrown : I don't know what they're going to do with the excess and the Jackson City Hall isn't famous for telling us things like that. But it seems like a rea
73 greenair727 : Moving parking further away from the airport, makes the airport less easy to use. I would rather pay a little more and park on-airport, then take the
74 Post contains links cle757 : Cleveland's getting a new hotel..a big one! http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/loc...led-project-to-change-city-skyline
75 greenair727 : ^Yes---its one, though the biggest, of several downtown hotel projects underway. A new 400-some room Westin will open soon, a new Drury is underway, a
76 MasseyBrown : The "international" concourse at BWI was and still is a huge white elephant. Maybe Ricky Smith is gun shy about repeating that ... well, I won't say f
77 greenair727 : ^ Perhaps. But if so, I hope Ricky Smith realizes metro Washington DC (to include Baltimore) didn't need two international gateways (like NY's EWR and
78 cle757 : I think the new hotels will help with Cleveland's business and convention's. It seems like CLE has been passed up for alot of things (democratic conve
79 fun2fly : I was shocked when I heard this. I thought CLE couldn't get $60mm for a new parking garage onsite, but now they can get $ for offsite lots. Ricky has
80 greenair727 : ^I think I read somewhere that the operations won't change--they just get $60M up front, then money each month for running the lots.
81 Post contains links greenair727 : ^I found the info (but couldn't update my post above): "The legislation also authorized the airport to enter into a 10-year agreement with Parking Com
82 Post contains links PITrules : Demand to PKB looks to get a huge boost, which should help the CLE-PKB flights; although if this goes through it will be years away. http://www.bizjou
83 MasseyBrown : Promising news about the Brazilian cracker proposal; but it's probably too soon for the champagne. Just last week Braskem released their 2014 capital
84 Post contains links PITrules : To be fair, from the start Shell was upfront about the extended multi-year evaluation process, and latest reports suggest that is on track. If anythi
85 SANFan : I sure think about that possibility a lot. The cruise industry here in SAN is pretty dead these days since Mexico cruises are pretty much non-existen
86 greenair727 : If US and AA merge, LH will likely drop their CLT-MUC flight as LH will lose the Star Alliance feed from US....meaning an LH bird available for CLE-FR
87 ATLFlyer323 : I think you may we wishing for too much on that one. Wouldn't that be too much capacity for the route?
88 greenair727 : ^LH could upgauge the 330 on the CLT route to someplace that currently has something smaller, and move that smaller equipment to CLE-FRA. (though a 33
89 ATLFlyer323 : O I agree completely, and I would love to have LH service across the Atlantic! I just wonder if it will be too much capacity. Does anyone think CLE c
90 cle757 : I think the 787 would be great for FRA, alot of cargo is shipped via truck to EWR everyday heading to Europe.
91 Post contains images MasseyBrown : The A330-300 in 217 passenger configuration (with 8F and 48C seats) is the smallest long-range a/c Lufthansa has. Near-term CLE's best hope has to be
92 fun2fly : I think we need to focus on UA's refurbished 763's with 214 seats if it were to happen. Good point that is often overlooked. I believe, UA would be a
93 greenair727 : ^are cargo screening facilities built by the airlines or are gov't? as the city already has UPS and Fedex operations, does that mean that such facilit
94 greenair727 : Cleveland Port Control just issued an SOQ yesterday to move the ARFF from the west end of BKL to Aviation HS "due to....initiatives associated with th
95 Post contains links cle757 : http://fox8.com/2013/11/19/united-ai...es-talks-future-in-northeast-ohio/
96 ATLFlyer323 : As the ERJ's are eventually phased out, I wonder what plane will become the backbone of the CLE hub? I would love to see more Q400's and ERJ 175's.
97 cle757 : It seems like CLE is getting more E170's and CR7's all the time.
98 ATLFlyer323 : This may be a stupid question, but what aircraft can the jet bridge's on Concourse D handle? Is there enough space between them to handle 737/A320's
99 cle757 : I'm not sure about the E170, but the CR7 will fit. They put the Q400 there and I know the wingspan of those are pretty long. But I think if they adju
100 greenair727 : Is there anything to take away from the article? I doesn't seem like it.
101 cle757 : Ya, I'm glad I'm not the only one that didn't get anything from that story
102 MasseyBrown : I listened to the three-and-a-half hour UA Investors' Day webcast. Lots was interesting, but the C-word was never uttered - not once in three and a ha
103 greenair727 : ^hmmmmm.... were other hubs mentioned by name? Or was CLE the only absence?
104 joeman : Hated to be the the first one pointing out more of the same canned info, more positive UA publicity without detailed numbers showing the evolving com
105 MasseyBrown : Oh, yes ... all of them except CLE and GUM. An interesting comment pertinent to CLE was made by the financial guys. UA is trying to maximize return o
106 enilria : The rumblings I hear are that the regional jet pulldown isn't good for CLE. I think if CLE wants to stay at current levels they need to get OO to do
107 MasseyBrown : What we haven't yet seen is UA walk away from an important CLE route because of competition, although last summer's 'accommodation' of WN on CLE-LAS
108 MasseyBrown : Silver's Montana service will end on December 9th. The aircraft, spares, and some people will be transfered to the CLE system. This should improve the
109 Post contains links greenair727 : ^That's good to hear! On another topic, B6's career page lists CLE as a location (though with zero jobs). Not all cities are listed. For example Cinci
110 swacle : On the B6 subject, they had people in CLE several months back. I spotted them scoping out the former NW bag room. Hearing CLE is listed on their jobs
111 STT757 : [quote]They have done so little in EWR even as DL has vacuumed up assets nearby[/qoute]. They're going all wide body on EWR-LHR, adding four additiona
112 greenair727 : I read on another site, that UA dropped one of the IAD-LHR frequencies for next summer---and have not added a flight from LHR to replace it, nor have
113 Post contains images MasseyBrown : JetBlue shows lots of cities they don't serve on their webpage. Checking out the bag room is a much better indicator of interest, I'd say. BOS-CLE is
114 MasseyBrown : Well ... DEN or another of the int'l hubs would be more likely, but who knows? Maybe CLE has come up with some kind of subsidy plan.
115 fun2fly : When is the board meeting in CLE? I'm surprised to see the decrease from IAD, but I guess that offsets the bump up at EWR. Surely, the slot will be u
116 MasseyBrown : Meeting is in June. Airlines usually announce international routes about six months ahead of the first flight, so if anything CLE-related is in the w
117 mbm3 : I agree that BOS-CLE is a very likely candidate for B6 and it is very positive to hear that they were scoping out the infrastructure at CLE. Given th
118 luv2fly : I could see B6 doing some Florida from Cleveland especially on the weekend capturing the cruise line traffic.
119 greenair727 : ^B6 entering the market could be good for UA. B6 enters, forcing UA to lower fares on certain routes (which B6 could cover through a transfer in BOS),
120 Post contains links greenair727 : Parking (for cars) rates at CLE to increase. Port Control trying to cash in on their recent parking purchases? http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index...
121 fun2fly : Didn't take long. Hope it helps them pay down their debt. Also noticed, due to some of the issues at CLE parking, that Airport Fastpark was nearly so
122 mbm3 : Maybe not given the BMW contract on the route....
123 greenair727 : ^what does the BMW contract require of LH?
124 N766UA : They're still cheap. I come from Logan where parking is 3 times as expensive, so 10 or 12$ a day is nothing.
125 greenair727 : I just heard that pax arriving at CLE though customs must, after clearing customs, board a bus which takes you to the main terminal area. (If you're c
126 MasseyBrown : Thinking about the possibility of JetBlue in CLE, I can't come up with a better argument than 'maybe'. They recently deferred their order for addition
127 luv2fly : Haven't been through CLE customs in a while though last time you did have to get rescreened after clearing customs to go through the terminal, regardl
128 MasseyBrown : It's official that CLE is (or will be in January) a Silver domicile, but it's now strongly rumored that Silver wants to close CLE and move all flights
129 greenair727 : ^maybe some in Silver want to be in IAD, while the others with greater decision-making authority have pushed for CLE? Not sure either.
130 coairman : Regardless of where Silver Is based, fact is that it's currently an unreliable airline with lots of delays and cancellations. In my opinion, Silver se
131 MasseyBrown : According to UA's latest schedule, CLE will take a pretty hefty whack after New Years - down to 171 departures on peak days. I believe this is even lo
132 luv2fly : I would rather have fewer flights then no flights at all. Also UA could be very conservative and better to add if need be then to cut in a panic.
133 SANFan : On a somewhat positive note, I just looked at UA's 12/14 timetable and see that SAN-CLE will operate this year for about 2 1/2 weeks (during the Chris
134 mariner : Very small beer for you blokes, but Frontier's summer schedule has DEN-CLE going from 5 x weekly to 13 x weekly - almost double daily. mariner
135 joeman : Thanks, best news in...
136 Highflier92660 : At which point is the United Cleveland hub going to be relegated to the history category expect for the nebulous semantics? I'm sure those on this thr
137 ncflyer : Yep Highlflier this point has been made many times on the CLE thread, Clevelanders IMHO are paying a tax on their airfare to keep the UA "hub". CO nev
138 N766UA : Last I was in PIT, half the terminal was walled off, carpets were stained and chairs were ripped up. Looked like crap compared to what I remember of
139 joeman : Highflyer92660 and ncflyer are so right on above. Unfortunately as usual, CLE is maybe the only nearly non-competitve large market UA dominates and th
140 cle757 : United has furloughed about 50 people ramp employees to part-time yeserday, so I wouldn't expect any growth in CLE soon!..moral has hit an all time lo
141 luv2fly : I guess time will tell us what if anything becomes of CLE and UA. Remember unlike other former Ohio hubs CLE actually has a larger base of customers t
142 MasseyBrown : The larger topic (500+ laid off or downgraded company-wide) has been discussed in another thread. I guess the somewhat heartening news is that the nu
143 fun2fly : It was listed in today's inflight magazine (Dec edition) as a seasonal route if that means anything, same goes for TVC. I read in the CLE magazine th
144 joeman : I'd like to see a breakdown of layoffs/furloughs/reductions at all eight hubs or other system wide, but especially IAH, ORD, EWR, SFO, DEN, IAD, LAX
145 MasseyBrown : I tried doing some research to answer your question, but it's difficult working only with public information. The company has been doing piecemeal cu
146 cle757 : CLE has about 47 full time-ramp going part-time and no furloughs, the ticket agents have 0 and are actually planning on hiring a few.
147 joeman : Thanks for looking MasseyBrown
148 Post contains links MasseyBrown : The PD reports http://www.cleveland.com/business/in...s_notifies_airpo.html#incart_river "About 200 of United's 85,000 employees will have unpaid time
149 Post contains images Highflier92660 : Of all the photos the Plain Dealer could have used with this, they chose one from last February 22 when United flight 1639 departed runway 6L after a
150 MasseyBrown : The Plain Dealer is run by soccer moms. They wouldn't know a runway excursion from a daytrip to Cedar Point. Among the many things they do badly is p
151 Post contains links tlecam : Brett Snyder discussed Cleveland with Brian Znotnins http://crankyflier.com/2013/12/18/a-...eveland-and-the-operations-center/
152 joeman : Here we go again, back to the suggestion that CLE is hardly profitable, no other hub data for comparison, the usual dire prospect for sustainability,
153 Post contains images MasseyBrown : An old Braniff exec, discussing their ex-Panagra South American system, said route profit numbers can be almost anything an airline wants them to be.
154 joeman : As a finance guy myself, EXACTLY. Finance in city government no less, where info is suited to fit the public to the nth degree. EXACTLY...and probabl
155 luv2fly : The problem with CLE and any hub is, the fact that you have put all your eggs in one basket. You have one major player who you have to keep happy by k
156 joeman : True, but a fascinating UA reality drawn out in another thread is that most of UA's other hubs are very heavy with competition not only at the same ai
157 luv2fly : UA owns CLE that part is true, now they just have to take the pieces and make it work. Like I mentioned before unlike other OH hubs CLE actually has p
158 fun2fly : WN moved CAK>LGA to 1.9 per day in April down from 3. Wasn't it originally 4? Wonder if that will cause any ripple effect at CLE. It seems that UA
159 MasseyBrown : CAK-LGA goes back up to 3 with the May schedule. Last summer, UA discontinued the route and operated CLE-PDX instead. I don't think UA's June schedul
160 MasseyBrown : UA has announced a special new amenities kit, commemorating their "eight hubs". The first seven, EWR, IAD, ORD, IAH, DEN, SFO, and LAX, are pretty eas
161 Post contains links MasseyBrown : http://newsroom.unitedcontinentalhol...20295&item=124391#assets_117:19329 There is a CLE kit, it turns out - in the center of the picture.
162 cle757 : Maybe CLE is getting LHR back this summer or new FRA service!!...but probably not.
163 MasseyBrown : DL's new schedule has posted an additional flight CLE-MSP and two additional to JFK for the summer. It would be nice to see them add back CLE-SLC, but
164 greenair727 : That's a relief! Looks like even if there isn't a business class int'l flight from CLE, people in such seats elsewhere will be given any one of the e
165 fun2fly : UA to MSP used to be 4x, now 3 for the summer. Will see if they bow to DL. Sure hope SLC happens sometime. On the UA side, with the recent addition o
166 Post contains images MasseyBrown : There was an interesting visitor on Saturday - an AC1749 E190 scheduled HAV-YYZ diverted to CLE. Another international destination.
167 Highflier92660 : What in the world would United place in a Cleveland vanity kit to differentiate it from the LAX or ORD vanity kits? Perhaps a Fender guitar pick to ce
168 commavia : As was thoroughly discussed (and roundly ignored and/or denied) when the merger was announced, the unfortunate reality is that CLE has a variety of ec
169 ncflyer : Commuvia it's hard to disagree with a thing you are saying but why then is UA having its shareholder meeting in Cleveland? Why haven't they pulled the
170 MasseyBrown : I can't argue with much of what you say, but I will predict that Cleveland's economic future is much brighter than most outsiders believe today. CO n
171 787pdx : Any word on if CLE-PDX will return this summer?
172 Post contains images point2point : Hmmmmm..... F9, and WN, and UA, DEN's three major hubbers, are all reporting profits. Maybe even too much, since between F9, WN, UA and all of the ot
173 Post contains images mariner : I didn't think that he wanted Frontier to move away from DEN. I assumed he meant "as well as DEN" not "instead of DEN." I doubt he'll get his wish, b
174 joeman : For the sake of our friends who have no clue what's going on at CLE and after all the DEN talk above, I checked Expedia just now for the cheapest nons
175 Post contains images MasseyBrown : Correct. F9 needs DEN plus something else and I doubt TTN+ILG is it. That's certainly not to say the 'something else' is CLE, either, but CLE is a pl
176 Post contains links commavia : Yes. Only SLC. According the U.S. Census Bureau's 2012 Metropolitan Statistical Area (MSA) population estimates, the Cleveland-Elyria, OH MSA as of J
177 greenair727 : Joeman is correct. CLT is much smaller than CLE. Though its not supposed to be, the Census Bureau is not immune to politics. That said, the Census Bu
178 Post contains links ATLFlyer323 : Yep, I didn't want to chime in as I'm new to the NE Ohio area but when I looked up the the Cleveland CSA population it's close to 3.5 million people.
179 MasseyBrown : I've always thought CSA's were the best description of an airport's cachement area, so long as that area has only one commercial airport. The CLE CSA
180 ATLFlyer323 : Well that depends... what are you considering long hauls? If I want a direct flight to LAX sure CAK doesn't offer it while CLE does... but both DL an
181 MasseyBrown : enilria's weekly OAG post shows CLE reductions in April as follows: UA CLE-ALB APR 4>3 UA CLE-CHS APR 1.0>0.7 UA CLE-CLT APR 4>3 UA CLE-CMH A
182 greenair727 : ^that's good analysis. Further, regarding: "So while the roof in CLE may be sagging a bit, the sky hasn't fallen quite yet." it may not fall at all. W
183 fun2fly : June meeting. Therefore 2015 for TATL service at the earliest. Any details on the passenger area renovations? Saw it in CLE magazine at the airport,
184 Post contains images MasseyBrown : Dunno why the airport can't make this as well as their newsletter available on line. Edit: in fact I just sent this to the airport comm director as a
185 Post contains images point2point : Okay, I'll accept that... but when one uses language such as: one might also also assume that maybe it meant a move away from DEN, yes maybe? Wow! Th
186 mariner : I guess, maybe. I wouldn't read it that way because Indigo has made it very clear that Frontier is staying at DEN and - horse's mouth - that's good e
187 Post contains images MasseyBrown : Yes, maybe, but no. If I said that a one-hub airline has efficiency problems, why would I propose that said one-hub airline pick up and move merely t
188 Post contains images point2point : Okay, fair enough...... but as far as the near future goes, I can only see that DEN is going to still probably be about some 90% of F9s revenue. And
189 MasseyBrown : Well, AA just announced they are pulling out of CLE-LGA, a route they have operated for about 50 years. The average fare on that route is almost $1/m
190 flyinryan99 : I wonder if they are expecting WN to move CAK-LGA to CLE-LGA or thinking that CAK-LGA is going to have more pull than what AirTran had. I was very su
191 fun2fly : Wow! Many times I've paid $700+ for the same day LGA flight. Perhaps AA just can't grab the pax vs. UA and newcomer DL. Quite the reversal for AA in
192 Post contains images MasseyBrown : Correction: Last minute bookings are $1/mile. Average UA fare ~60 cents/mile for CLE-LGA; Average WN fare for CAK-LGA ~28 cents/mile. AA fare on CLE-
193 greenair727 : ^Do you have a citation for that Cleveland Clinic number/quote? That's very bad news about AA. CLE-NYC has to be on the strongest markets for CLE----a
194 Post contains links MasseyBrown : http://medcitynews.com/2014/01/cleveland-clinic-abu-dhabi-strategy/ The other routes they dropped were LGA-ATL and LGA-MSP. So all three routes went t
195 mariner : Denver will always be crucial to Frontier - every executive has said it and the new owner. It's in the airline's DNA - DEN is its greatest strength.
196 mbm3 : I had NO clue that they were sending that much staff to/from Abu Dhabi! I am very surprised that Eithad or one of the Star Alliance carriers has not
197 MasseyBrown : The Clinic has said all along that "some" CLE-based staff would cycle to/from AUH, but it now sounds as if they are depending more on the US for staf
198 PITrules : The article said "the system" is sending 50 people a day. I take that to mean the entire Cleveland Clinic health system which includes dozens of loca
199 Post contains images MasseyBrown : We're grasping at straws, here, trying to justify a return of more international service. You are correct that these people could be traveling from 5
200 Flytravel : A station like PBI might make a better focus with limited competitors (unlike CLE where UA would overshadow it) and PBI still being Florida entry for
201 MasseyBrown : Yesterday, today, and tomorrow DL has scheduled a 752 for CLE-ATL, leaving about 2PM. This happens to connect in ATL to a 5:45PM DL/KL connection to A
202 MasseyBrown : CLE posted the airport's 2013 traffic numbers and they squeaked out a year-over-year gain despite UA's continued cuts. 9.072 million pax in 2013 versu
203 cle757 : I don't know the schedules but Delta, American and even Us Airways all seem to be flying larger aircraft to CLE lately, maybe they figure if UA doesn'
204 fun2fly : We can assume that the #'s are pretty indicative of what the O&D market truly is. DL to ATL and AA to DFW are all mainline. UA can't even do that
205 greenair727 : Why? people still connect in CLE.
206 MasseyBrown : Of the 62,000 pax growth overall, domestic traffic was down 2,000 and international was up 64,000. For the airport to post a net gain while UA is reg
207 fun2fly : Currently, not even one mainline (used to always have one): 7x ERJ145 1x CR7 = 420 seats per day. Figure they pickup the 140 seats or so from AA, tha
208 Post contains images point2point : Not quite sure where, but somewhere about 2-3-4 (?) years ago, I read an online article about CLE, and it stated that the CLE O&D rate was from w
209 daver3188 : I just saw that United will have CLE as the focus city in the Hemispheres in flight magazine in February. Also the DL CLE-LGA is nothing special, I us
210 ncflyer : 9MM passengers wow that number is dwarfed by passenger numbers in smaller cities that aren't "hubs" (I always put "hub" in quotes when describing CLE)
211 Post contains links MasseyBrown : CAK and PIT are booming, sucking traffic out of CLE ... some of that may be happening, but it's hard to prove.. http://www.ohio.com/news/top-stories.
212 greenair727 : Starting tomorrow for the month of February all UA and UA Exp flights worldwide will have an insert in their Hemisphere's Magazine: Doissier Cleveland
213 fun2fly : Two very positive things for CLE: UA focusing this month's magazine on Cleveland and a new airport hotel. I also saw check in terminal upgrades menti
214 Post contains links MasseyBrown : Just when things were looking almost good: http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index...rlines_plannin.html#incart_m-rpt-2 Everybody it seems saw this comin
215 fun2fly : Well, with the hub being dismantled, we'll have something interesting to talk about for 2014 here on the CLE forum. All along most thought that Smisek
216 joeman : As I posted in the other thread, might as well accept that the industry has changed, the U.S. market is primarily fortress hub based and many shorter
217 Post contains images MasseyBrown : So after a night's sleep, I have a new scheme for the gate arrangements. (As if anybody's asking me. ) Use Concourse A for AA, F9, and anybody new who
218 mariner : What about Frontier's flights to CUN and PUJ - don't they need FIS? mariner
219 MasseyBrown : Note: I proposed remaking the WN gates in Concourse B into an improved FIS. It could be a fast, cheap, good deal. F9 might even want to use a leftove
220 joeman : EXCELLENT idea
221 Post contains images MasseyBrown : Not original. That's where Trans Canada was first located in the 1950's and also where the first FIS was. Speaking of ideas, I'm thinking there shoul
222 fun2fly : In recent weeks, we've heard of revamping the check in area, a new hotel, not to mention the new uncovered outdoor parking facility and buying the Sn
223 fun2fly : Ricky Smith today: It's ironic that the day United reported they would draw down the hub, we got a message from one tenant carrier that they were goin
224 joeman : Wow, that's right. Vague memories of early childhood, TCA Visounts, Vanguards, even DC-8, to Toronto yet and a sort of custom processing station that
225 Highflier92660 : Could this statement by Cleveland mayor Frank Jackson foretell the fate of Concourse D? " Concourse D was developed for regional jet operations, so it
226 MasseyBrown : Putting Boeings at D jetways will only create havoc in the waiting areas, which are sized for 50-seaters. The airport won't be short of gates for some
227 fun2fly : AA? mainline exists at CLT and DFW. Would have to add ORD, PHL and MIA? With UA dropping PHL it's probable. If it is one of the existing tenants, it
228 Post contains images MasseyBrown : AA or DL: our only choices. I'm guessing DL because they are parking a bunch of 50-seaters and adding a bunch of ex-AirTran 717's this year and their
229 N766UA : I'd like to see a jet! They used to fly CRJs, why not bring those back? Maybe even an E-jet. This might be a good time for Porter to finally start se
230 Post contains links joeman : From the doomsday thread: Some speculation that UA is playing major dirty politics on handling the whole situation http://upgrd.com/aerospace/united-i
231 Post contains links MasseyBrown : UA's Hemispheres Cleveland insert is viewable here: http://www.ink-live.com/emagazines/h...res-dossier/1562/february-2014/#56
232 MasseyBrown : Ok, so I'm done with the other threads on the hub closure. Just want to repeat in this one that UA is also retaining the weekend flights to SJU and CU
233 MasseyBrown : Piece of good news: Effective June 5, DL is adding two flights to LGA for a total of 5 on most days. This was presumably in reaction to the news that
234 joeman : DL LGA upgrade is good. At least our a.netter friends without real CLE knowledge haven't declared CLE adequately served even without the so called hub
235 fun2fly : That helps spend the FF miles! Still CR7's? Did anyone figure out who will be going all mainline? DL.com is screwy not showing any direct flights in
236 Post contains images MasseyBrown : The new CLE-LGA flights are not not yet on Delta.com; they'll probably load this weekend. My info says 1-CR7 and 4-CRJ's. (I wonder where DL is getti
237 MasseyBrown : They are loaded as of Sunday AM: 1 CR7 and 4 CRJs to LGA, plus 3 CRJ's to JFK..
238 MasseyBrown : A 777-200 belonging to MidEast Jet arrived today from Berlin and leaves in the morning for Riyadh.
239 Post contains links and images mariner : Here you go: Frontier CLE-SEA and CLE-MCO: http://news.flyfrontier.com/press-re...onstop-service-orlando-and-seattle "Frontier Airlines is Taking Its
240 STT757 : Wow there you go, it's not AS but someone picks up a former CO/UA route (albeit seasonal). And F9 to MCO should help keep fares low.
241 MasseyBrown : DL's new CLE-RDU flights will be nicely timed for a Clevelander to go to RDU for a full business day, but the CLE-IND flights are strange - IND-CLE ea
242 fun2fly : First mover advantage for F9. Thought DL for sure. So, by default, with the additions of IND and RDU, does that mean AA will be all mainline per Rick
243 jetpixx : It would be nice if AA would go mainline all the way...hey, maybe they'll go REALLY way back, and add the CLE-BUF MD-80 flights. Remember those? ORD-
244 joeman : Same thing I was thinking, that or it's a typical "we were gonna but..." situation like we historically endured from CO/UA many times over...
245 Post contains images MasseyBrown : IND and RDU are nice, but what really needs to happen is a CDG flight by DL. CLE-CDG under CO got loads in the low-mid 80's the one summer it ran; it'
246 fun2fly : I imagine just waiting for some landing fee credits and some marketing assistance from the Greater Cle Partnership, no? I sure hope. It would be welc
247 N766UA : Are we seriously discussing CLE-CDG again? Seriously? Like Delta's just waiting with bated breath? UAL couldn't do it with a hub operation, with hund
248 Post contains images MasseyBrown : UA's LHR and CDG flights were not really that well connected in CLE and for lots of spokes a CLE connection made the combined itinerary substantially
249 fun2fly : It works for PIT which is in the same boat, why not CLE? So, we've heard from F9, DL and UA on their changes for CLE. Any word on WN and AA?
250 joeman : Absolutely, the need for more airline service between the same city pairs or from hubs to every patch of dirt on earth is old.
251 Post contains images MasseyBrown : Yesterday's WSJ list CLE as the leader in flight cancellations so far in 2014 at 16.7% of flights. Given CLE's usually excellent runway clearance oper
252 MasseyBrown : Now DL has listed CLE-BDL in their summer schedules, which is interesting - another point-to-point route using a CR7 aircraft, which is perhaps a litt
253 lakeeffect : The landscape at CLE is changing drastically and I expect CLE in 2 years will look completely different than on June 5th when the hub ceases. It's enc
254 MasseyBrown : I've been thinking the same thing. They could at least bump the flights up to 50-pax Dashes and maybe add back the old CLE-YUL route they used to fly
255 lakeeffect : Wasn't there a mention by Ricky Smith at CLE that one of the airlines was going to switch to all mainline? I'm betting that was a slip up of wording,
256 fun2fly : WN Schedule release on 3/3. Thoughts on what that will mean to CLE? Hope for a few additions like DL. No additions yet from AA/US. Any news there? If
257 YNGguins : Will this weeks schedule release give us some insight on the future and direction of SWA in Northeast OH?
258 lakeeffect : I think tomorrow could start to tell the story of what Southwest will do in Northeast Ohio. There was an A/P story a month ago saying how Southwest wa
259 MasseyBrown : Typically WN doesn't move that fast unless it's a major buildup like BWI or DEN. I think the most CLE can hope for soon is a flight to PHX in Septemb
260 Flytravel : I think an easy move would be moving CAK-BOS to CLE-BOS. However, WN might time the flights for BOS based pax. I'd be really surprised if WN offered
261 lakeeffect : Did US/AA recently add larger regional jets to this route? I flew this route last summer on a CRJ on US, but checking the schedules for tomorrow I se
262 lakeeffect : Just a quick glance at some random dates on Southwest this morning. It seems CLE-BWI goes up from 3 to 4 (pushing out United on this route?), this app
263 Post contains links SA7700 : As this thread is becoming quite long and in some instances slow to load it will be locked for further contributions. All posts added after the thread
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