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What's Going On In CLE - Part 4  
User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4312 posts, RR: 6
Posted (5 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 22776 times:
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Due to length of part three here is part four.

Part three: What's Going On In CLE - Part 3 (by iowaman May 13 2013 in Civil Aviation)

263 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineATLFlyer323 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 613 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 22735 times:

I'm going on what MasseyBrown said on the 3rd thread about CPE's. How can CLE get that number down? Is it done through pay reductions or staff layoff only or are their other factors like getting more retail space rented that brings more revenue to the airport so they can cut deals in other areas? I'm not familiar with how this works, so I'm just asking as a curious mind.

Being new to the NE Ohio area I enjoy using both CAK and CLE. CAK is an awesome little airport and CLE has been a nice hub base when I needed more options on flights and times.

-ATLFlyer323



Everyday, the fluffy temptation of wheat!
User currently offlinefun2fly From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1000 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (5 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 22550 times:

Quoting ATLFlyer323 (Reply 1):
I'm going on what MasseyBrown said on the 3rd thread about CPE's. How can CLE get that number down?

Some of it surely rests on going from 13mm pax to 9mm. I just checked the CLE website and no 2013 pax updates since Jan. Anyone have any updates? Hopefully an increase vs. previous years to help get costs down.


User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5214 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (5 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 22440 times:

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 2):
Anyone have any updates? Hopefully an increase vs. previous years to help get costs down.

According to http://www.transtats.bts.gov/airports.asp

Traffic (domestic only) for the twelve months ending June 2013 was 8,462,000 down slightly by 23, 000 from June, 2012. Traffic declined less than capacity, thus producing higher load factors. There is deductive evidence that O&D actually increased, so the slight loss is attributable to UA deliberately reducing connecting traffic over CLE.

The decline in CLE traffic since the UA/CO merger was proposed (CO started cuts before the merger was consumated) has been the major contributor to the huge rise in CPE, but it's not the whole story. Governments always have a *really* hard time bringing down costs, which is what CLE needs to do. Costs have declined *much* less than traffic. But, as I said, it's hard to cut. For example, how much can you reduce the CLE fire department because traffic declined from 10MM to 8MM? Answer: almost nothing. It's the same with all airside expenses.

I wonder how much of the City Hall Port Control Department is charged against the airport that could be charged against other functions. The top is always a place to start looking.  



Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
User currently offlinefun2fly From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1000 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (5 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 22406 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 3):
I wonder how much of the City Hall Port Control Department is charged against the airport that could be charged against other functions. The top is always a place to start looking.

Or at least charged to the biggest albatross of them all BURKE! In all seriousness, they will need to do their best to cut costs to be competitive down the line. What options are realistic? Mothball Concourse A?

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 3):
Traffic (domestic only) for the twelve months ending June 2013 was 8,462,000 down slightly by 23, 000 from June, 2012. Traffic declined less than capacity, thus producing higher load factors.

In prior posts, we were seeing greater international traffic, I guess that's the only way CLE will grow in 2013.


User currently offlinecle757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1099 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 22240 times:

It would be nice to see the city give some sort of an incentive for UA to add LHR or FRA, but maybe UA is just not interested in CLE.


Cleveland the best location in the Nation
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5214 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (5 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 22198 times:

Quoting cle757 (Reply 5):
It would be nice to see the city give some sort of an incentive for UA to add LHR or FRA, but maybe UA is just not interested in CLE.

Apparently the city is willing to put up the seed money for Cleveland-Europe (via the St. Lawrence Seaway) container ships. Maybe if that works out, they can try seeding some air service next.  

In other Cleveland aviation news, Kenn Ricci's empire just grew again, acquiring Avionics Supply, of Denton, Tx, via Resilience Capital Fund III. Resilience is fund that buys, fixes up, and sells smallish companies lately all aviation-related. This acquisition is apparently intended to work with, and perhaps become a part of Directioal Aviation's Aerospace Products, Intl. (another Ricci company) along with Nextant, Constant, Flight Options, Sentient, FlexJet, etc..



Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
User currently offlineATLFlyer323 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 613 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 22167 times:

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 4):
What options are realistic? Mothball Concourse A?

I believe *don't kill me if I'm wrong* the international gate(s?) and customs facility is done through Terminal A. So they would have to fix that before they could mothball Terminal A. I know CLE isn't a major international gateway, but there is seasonal/charter flights that use the customs facility at times. They would have better luck maybe mothballing B? I don't see CLE needing 4 concourses if UA continues to cut flights.

-ATLFlyer323



Everyday, the fluffy temptation of wheat!
User currently offlinembm3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 818 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (5 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 22114 times:
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Quoting cle757 (Reply 5):
It would be nice to see the city give some sort of an incentive for UA to add LHR or FRA, but maybe UA is just not interested in CLE.

It is not a matter of incentive or potential revenue - the cargo alone would most likely make the FRA profitable - but rather that 1970s embarrassment of a customs/immigration facility in Terminal A. It was a logistical & customer service nightmare when CO had the CDG / LHR flights on the 752s and the notion of using a 767 is not something even UA will consider as it simply will not work. There is not enough space for that volume of passengers and premium passengers will not tolerate the minibus to baggage claim....



Let Me Tell You, Landing A 772ER Is Harder Than It Looks!
User currently offlinejoeman From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 690 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 22093 times:

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 4):
we were seeing greater international traffic, I guess that's the only way CLE will grow in 2013.

Long live the other UA and other carrier hubs with CLE support

Quoting mbm3 (Reply 8):
that 1970s embarrassment of a customs/immigration facility in Terminal A.

Can hardly believe a 1 or 2 gate improvement is not a priority

Quoting cle757 (Reply 5):
It would be nice to see the city give some sort of an incentive for UA to add LHR or FRA, but maybe UA is just not interested in CLE.

I agree but one way cash and prizes have gotten kinda old by now


User currently offlinembm3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 818 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (5 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 21936 times:
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Quoting joeman (Reply 9):
Can hardly believe a 1 or 2 gate improvement is not a priority

It is not the gates that is an issue, it is finding a better location for the FIS facility that is larger, has modern equipment and does not require ALL passengers to clear TSA inspection. The later is why CO knocked a hole in the wall and bused passengers to baggage claim during the last year of TATL service.

Prior to the mergers, CO was enticing NW to move to Terminal A so they could have all of Terminal C and potentially work with the airport to open a new FIS near C4. NW balked as they didn't want their premium pax to be so far away from the Presidents Club....

Fast forward to today and it is my understanding that a new FIS facility is being considered near the location of the current ATC tower, which means it could be made accessible to gates in B & C and provide direct access to the arrivals area. This will, of course, will require the new tower to be completed, the old tower demolished and federal funding being made available....

Oh, and contrary to all of the CLE gloom and doom naysayers, the rumor of CLE-TLV was indeed more fact than fiction. As someone who went through the current facility with the CGG, LHR and CUN flights all landing within the same hour, the thought of a packed 777 offloading at the end of Terminal A makes me shudder.



Let Me Tell You, Landing A 772ER Is Harder Than It Looks!
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5214 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (5 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 21915 times:

Quoting mbm3 (Reply 10):
Fast forward to today and it is my understanding that a new FIS facility is being considered near the location of the current ATC tower,

My hope is that the city and UA, when the UA directors meet next June in CLE, will announce a new FIS project along with a UA committment for restoration of CLE-Europe service in the spring of 2015. At the pace of progress these days, the FIS couldn't possibly be ready for summer 2015 flights, but maybe UA would put up with the old facility for a year or so.



Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
User currently offlinefun2fly From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1000 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (5 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 21900 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 11):
My hope is that the city and UA, when the UA directors meet next June in CLE, will announce a new FIS project along with a UA committment for restoration of CLE-Europe service in the spring of 2015. At the pace of progress these days, the FIS couldn't possibly be ready for summer 2015 flights, but maybe UA would put up with the old facility for a year or so.

Sure hope that is right - seems plausible since the BOD is coming to town. A 2 class 763 to FRA including the air freight should be a winner. All those trucking companies that shuttle things to ORD and NYC for air freight will be at a loss. On the positive side, should save a day's transit for CLE airfreight customers, not to mention the pax not having to go via EWR!


User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5214 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (5 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 21727 times:

During the UA Q3 conference call a question was asked about shifting resources from hub to hub. Smisek's only reply was "Every hub has to earn its right to be a hub every day." This isn't any different from what he has said in the past and there was no discussion of relative hub profitability except a hint that EWR was seeing weaker O&D performance (transcon in particular) and was looking at more connecting traffic especially transatlantic. That development argues against any transatlantic flights for CLE.


Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
User currently offlineAVENSAB727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 830 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (5 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 21713 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 13):

I see the point that Smisek said, I wonder how IAH has done this quarter.



Always look on the bright side of Life!
User currently offlineLoneStarMike From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 3783 posts, RR: 34
Reply 15, posted (5 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 21670 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 3):
There is deductive evidence that O&D actually increased, so the slight loss is attributable to UA deliberately reducing connecting traffic over CLE.

If O&D is increasing, the airport has a better chance of increasing it's revenue from parking. Also, what about taxes on rental cars? Don't some of the taxes on cars rented at the airport provide revenue for the airport? Obviously, connecting passengers flying through CLE don't pay to park, nor do they rent cars. O&D passengers do (at least some of them.) The more non-airline revenue the airport can raise from things like parking and rental car taxes, the less CLE will have to charge the airlines. That should bring the airline's costs down.

LoneStarMike

[Edited 2013-10-24 10:43:17]

User currently offlinecle757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1099 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 21654 times:

With the high airfares out of CLE you would think UA would add some mainline flights, like CLE-SAN.


Cleveland the best location in the Nation
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5214 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (5 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 21616 times:

More about UA hubs in this Bloomberg report:

http://www.businessweek.com/articles...ave-hubs-hurt-too?campaign_id=yhoo

Interesting that the report disparages legacy-UA hubs.



Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
User currently offlinejoeman From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 690 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 21509 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 13):
a hint that EWR was seeing weaker O&D performance (transcon in particular) and was looking at more connecting traffic especially transatlantic. That development argues against any transatlantic flights for CLE.

Certainly does. Basically, make the almighty NYC/EWR and ORD work at any expense, that is CLE expense in the UA case


User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5214 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (5 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 21360 times:

The IATA slot conference, whereat the airlines firm up their summer transatlantic schedules, is in Ft. Worth TX 14-17 November this year. We should announcements of Summer 2014 plans beginning a week or so later. I don't have any hopes for CLE this year, but next year ... maybe ...


Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
User currently offlinembm3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 818 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (5 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 21324 times:
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Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 11):
My hope is that the city and UA, when the UA directors meet next June in CLE, will announce a new FIS project along with a UA committment for restoration of CLE-Europe service in the spring of 2015. At the pace of progress these days, the FIS couldn't possibly be ready for summer 2015 flights, but maybe UA would put up with the old facility for a year or so.

I agree!

Quoting cle757 (Reply 16):
With the high airfares out of CLE you would think UA would add some mainline flights, like CLE-SAN.

CLE-SAN is on and off the schedule, I am sure dictated by some arrangement with a cruise line.



Let Me Tell You, Landing A 772ER Is Harder Than It Looks!
User currently offlinecle757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1099 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 21246 times:

http://www.cleveland.com/business/in...pe_express_has_b.html#incart_river Business in CLE seems to be really picking up, the new medical mart,convention center and finally new hotels!..I hope United has noticed!


Cleveland the best location in the Nation
User currently offlinejoeman From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 690 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 21223 times:

Quoting cle757 (Reply 21):
http://www.cleveland.com/business/in...pe_express_has_b.html#incart_river Business in CLE seems to be really picking up, the new medical mart,convention center and finally new hotels!..I hope United has noticed!

EXCELLENT news on direct Cleveland-Europe shipping via sea in the article and citing the latest local improvements!


User currently offlinecle757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1099 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 21187 times:

With the recent tarmac delay fines maybe UA should consider adding flights at CLE.


Cleveland the best location in the Nation
User currently offlinejoeman From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 690 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 21137 times:

Quoting cle757 (Reply 23):
With the recent tarmac delay fines maybe UA should consider adding flights at CLE.

Couldn't help think and laugh at the same thing, and contemplate my last CLE-LAS itinerary via ORD (cheaper fare than nonstop) horror experience, but:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 13):
a hint that EWR was seeing weaker O&D performance (transcon in particular) and was looking at more connecting traffic especially transatlantic.

....they already have flight saturation at EWR too so it can probably only be enhanced by better marketing/service and or lower fares (not sure how...I've flown CLE-MCO via EWR for substantially less than their smathering of uncompetitive nonstop CLE-MCO service for example), or diverting available connecting traffic from nearby IAD, ORD or naturally CLE which has already relinguished more than its fair share. But the other three have to work simply because they are who they are and according to above UA may already be be giving their little CLE EAS routes to IAD in the near future.

I'll believe UA dedication when I see it, and reinstating a couple routes for an undetermined length of time, calling them new, and cutting others doesn't really fit the bill. I've sure gone via ORD, EWR and IAD a lot for a "hub" in my own back yard and I'm not talking to international destinations or cow town USA.


User currently offlinejoeman From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 690 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 21128 times:

CLE supporters should check out the thread: Hubs Hurting UA's Financial Performance?

Guess it isn't all about CLE being a drag, but now that Smisek has expanded his CLE remarks to "earn it's right to be a hub" to include the other hubs, I wonder how much ORD and EWR have to do so when UA throws as many assets into them as seemingly possible, and a good portion has been at the expense of the "profitable" (per article) CO CLE hub, both pre and post merger.


User currently offlinecle757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1099 posts, RR: 0
Reply 26, posted (5 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 20930 times:

http://www.clevelandplusbusiness.com...-Northeast-Ohio-Jobs-Expected.aspx
Well it seems like things in the Cleveland area are improving, so hopefully more jobs = more people flying



Cleveland the best location in the Nation
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5214 posts, RR: 7
Reply 27, posted (5 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 20912 times:

There has been some management turnover at Silver which has spawned a new flock of new rumors. The talk is that crew domiciles will be relocated to hubs instead of spoke cities. At the moment CLE is one of the prospective domiciles, contingent on a longer term retention of the Beeches. Exactly when this is supposed to happen is not certain; within six months is the story.

Apparently, the "annoying problem" with CLE and the Beeches is: CLE is profitable, while much of the rest of the Saab-based system isn't - or isn't consistently. Until Silver gets the Saabs running more reliably (and profitably) they need the Beeches to keep some cash flowing. Long-term this is not a secure future for Silver's CLE operations, but it's a better rumor than the last one.



Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
User currently offlinejoeman From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 690 posts, RR: 0
Reply 28, posted (5 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 20858 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 27):
Apparently, the "annoying problem" with CLE and the Beeches is: CLE is profitable

I wonder if there's any other industry where profit centers are considered in such a way and if this is a problem for UA as well.


User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5214 posts, RR: 7
Reply 29, posted (5 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 20851 times:

Quoting joeman (Reply 28):
Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 27):
Apparently, the "annoying problem" with CLE and the Beeches is: CLE is profitable

I wonder if there's any other industry where profit centers are considered in such a way and if this is a problem for UA as well.

My little joke ... sorry.

While CLE is profitable for Silver, it apparently isn't profitable enough to make two aircraft types an efficient operation over the long term. CLE needs to be profitable as a Saab hub; and in order for that to work for Silver, UA needs to expand its hub capacity to pull in more feed on the Saabs.



Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
User currently offlinejoeman From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 690 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 20676 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 29):
My little joke ... sorry.

And my little sarcasm, I totally understand. It's just that there's been some suggestion by others on CLE threads in the past that the gradual reduction beginning after the green light for a new runway and inconsistent service at CLE seemed a deliberate way of slowly killing it to justify a shift of ops and that perhaps a prerequisite to UA merger were further reductions to better enhance ORD...I believe it.


User currently offlinefun2fly From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1000 posts, RR: 1
Reply 31, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 20641 times:

Effective October 29, 2013 all Air Canada departures will now depart from Concourse D gate 21.

Hard to believe they gave up that gem they used to have!


User currently offlinecle757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1099 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 20577 times:

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 31):
Effective October 29, 2013 all Air Canada departures will now depart from Concourse D gate 21.

Hard to believe they gave up that gem they used to have!

And C-21 has already had lines repainted for larger aircraft



Cleveland the best location in the Nation
User currently offlineATLFlyer323 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 613 posts, RR: 0
Reply 33, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 20558 times:

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 31):
Hard to believe they gave up that gem they used to have!


Pardon my ignorance, what was great about their gate before? I don't know.  

-ATLFlyer323



Everyday, the fluffy temptation of wheat!
User currently offlinefun2fly From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1000 posts, RR: 1
Reply 34, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 20501 times:

Quoting ATLFlyer323 (Reply 33):
Pardon my ignorance, what was great about their gate before? I don't know.

I did not know they moved to C 21. Their old one require you to walk down stairs, onto the tarmac onto the plane. Brutal in the CLE winter. Haven't flown AC in two years or so, so this is the 2nd move in some time for them.

Must suggest that UA needs more room for mainline flights?


User currently offlineATLFlyer323 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 613 posts, RR: 0
Reply 35, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 20468 times:

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 34):
Must suggest that UA needs more room for mainline flights?

Ha, you're so funny!   One could always hope... but I don't think that's the case. UA has plenty of gates to fit their mainline flights.... or at least it seems that way anytime I have flown out of CLE.

-ATLFlyer323



Everyday, the fluffy temptation of wheat!
User currently onlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8090 posts, RR: 24
Reply 36, posted (5 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 20365 times:

Has anyone commented on the gradual buildup of E170 flying? I noticed that DFW and BDL got added recently; certainly upgrades from the all-ERJ service they've had for a long time. I've always thought the 170 would be a good fit for a lot of CLE markets.


This Website Censors Me
User currently offlinefun2fly From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1000 posts, RR: 1
Reply 37, posted (5 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 20324 times:

Quoting N766UA (Reply 36):
Has anyone commented on the gradual buildup of E170 flying?

I saw 3x to BOS + AUS. As the 50 seaters are retired, we should see more of this. I do wonder why UA does not take the philosophy that DL took w/these 70 seat a/c. I thought DL did a good job stating certain routes (ORD>LGA) would all have first class seats and use them exclusively on the route. I think that would help out BOS, LGA and ATL from CLE. I think it would also help out DFW so you don't have to choose from brand new AA A319's or 3 hours in a RJ on UA.

I have noticed the increase in CRJ flying - not a fan of those planes. Any reason why? Not a big fan.

Quoting ATLFlyer323 (Reply 35):
Ha, you're so funny! One could always hope

At least they restriped it for larger a/c!


User currently offlineATLFlyer323 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 613 posts, RR: 0
Reply 38, posted (5 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 20276 times:

Quoting N766UA (Reply 36):
I've always thought the 170 would be a good fit for a lot of CLE markets.

And they are wonderful aircraft, I actually prefer the 170's over 737 and 320's! No middle seat!

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 37):
At least they restriped it for larger a/c!

Very true!

-ATLFlyer323



Everyday, the fluffy temptation of wheat!
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5214 posts, RR: 7
Reply 39, posted (5 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 19960 times:

DL has been operating a bunch of charters out of CLE with 88xx flight numbers in the last week to BWI (763), MIA (319), SLC (319), DTW (763) ... The one to 767 to BWI - ok, I got that as the Ravens slink home and maybe DTW was a ferry flight after dropping them off, but the 319's are a mystery. I can't seem to trace them to athletic teams coming/going. Anybody know what these were?


Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
User currently offlinefun2fly From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1000 posts, RR: 1
Reply 40, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 19938 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 39):
DL has been operating a bunch of charters out of CLE with 88xx flight numbers in the last week to BWI (763), MIA (319), SLC (319), DTW (763) ... The one to 767 to BWI - ok, I got that as the Ravens slink home and maybe DTW was a ferry flight after dropping them off, but the 319's are a mystery. I can't seem to trace them to athletic teams coming/going. Anybody know what these were?

CAVS were out of town in CLT and IND.

From last week's trip to CLE, I see that the uncovered long term parking is nearly done. Good timing, it snowed last week in CLE. Sure to be a favorite of the local traveler.


User currently offlinechrisjake From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 857 posts, RR: 1
Reply 41, posted (5 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 19840 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 39):
DL has been operating a bunch of charters out of CLE with 88xx flight numbers in the last week to BWI (763), MIA (319), SLC (319), DTW (763) ... The one to 767 to BWI - ok, I got that as the Ravens slink home and maybe DTW was a ferry flight after dropping them off, but the 319's are a mystery. I can't seem to trace them to athletic teams coming/going. Anybody know what these were?

The Miami charter was the Brooklyn Nets going to their next game after playing at CLE. Maybe the SLC charter was a ferry flight also?

Chris



Well nothing's dead down here, just a little tired
User currently offlinecle757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1099 posts, RR: 0
Reply 42, posted (5 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 19678 times:

http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/loc...ared-to-2006-will-be-night-and-day some more good news for the Cleveland area!


Cleveland the best location in the Nation
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5214 posts, RR: 7
Reply 43, posted (5 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 19631 times:

Do you really want *those* conventions? Seems as if most cities regret it after getting them. Even upfront the host cities often admit they do it for 'prestige' purposes and expect to lose money.

Diff subj:

RPA5828 E190 Gulfport-Biloxi Intl (KGPT) 11:17a EST 12:16p CST

Interesting. Casino charter on a Tuesday? Seems as if the CLE charter business is growing again.



Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5214 posts, RR: 7
Reply 44, posted (5 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 19455 times:

It's apparently official: Silver has made CLE a crew domicile.


Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
User currently offlineATLFlyer323 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 613 posts, RR: 0
Reply 45, posted (5 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 19430 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 44):
It's apparently official: Silver has made CLE a crew domicile.

This is great news, does that mean we can expect more flights out of CLE on Silver, or just expect to hopefully not lose any?



Everyday, the fluffy temptation of wheat!
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5214 posts, RR: 7
Reply 46, posted (5 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 19392 times:

Quoting ATLFlyer323 (Reply 45):
This is great news, does that mean we can expect more flights out of CLE on Silver, or just expect to hopefully not lose any?

Silver had been basing its crews in outstations instead of hubs, which they felt saved them some hotel bills. The crews, however, hated it because, if they were commuters (as many are), it took extra time to commute to Bradford, PA (example) since they had to fly through CLE to get there. Domiciling in CLE means they save one leg of the commute. Some may actually move to CLE (it's a low cost area for relatively low-paid regional airline crews) but for most it will simply be a big, time-saving convenience.

What I take from the news is that Silver expects to stay in CLE for a while, or they would have left it off the list of new domiciles. Domiciling does not necessarily mean more flights, although it might make adding flights easier at some future time.

Edit: Silver's motive was to improve pilot retention and enhance crew satisfaction and quality of life at relatively low cost.

[Edited 2013-11-06 11:03:03]


Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5214 posts, RR: 7
Reply 47, posted (5 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 19209 times:

Frontier adding CLE-TTN flights February 13th:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/fronti...html;_ylt=A2KLOzH54ntSxEkA2m7QtDMD



Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
User currently offlinembm3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 818 posts, RR: 1
Reply 48, posted (5 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 19148 times:
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Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 47):
Frontier adding CLE-TTN flights February 13th



One wonders if this will affect the DEN service?



Let Me Tell You, Landing A 772ER Is Harder Than It Looks!
User currently offlinefreeze3192 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 164 posts, RR: 0
Reply 49, posted (5 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 19152 times:

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 34):
I did not know they moved to C 21. Their old one require you to walk down stairs, onto the tarmac onto the plane. Brutal in the CLE winter. Haven't flown AC in two years or so, so this is the 2nd move in some time for them.

?

They moved to D21, which will require the same thing. The prop on the Dash 8 100/200/300 is too close to the door to allow using a jetway.

Plus all of the gates at D17/21/25/28 require going down stairs and walking on the ramp to the airplane. Nothing new for CLE.



"A passenger bets his life that his pilot is a worthy heir to an ancient tradition of excellence and professionalism."
User currently offlinefun2fly From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1000 posts, RR: 1
Reply 50, posted (5 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 19121 times:

Quoting mbm3 (Reply 48):



One wonders if this will affect the DEN service?

So, in one year Frontier added DEN, CUN and TTN. Not bad.


User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5214 posts, RR: 7
Reply 51, posted (5 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 19099 times:

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 50):
So, in one year Frontier added DEN, CUN and TTN. Not bad.

+ PUJ twice a week. DEN and CUN stay the same at 5/wk. TTN starts at 3/wk and goes to 4 in May. Not bad for a "dying" airline that Republic is having a hard time selling..



Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
User currently offlinejoeman From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 690 posts, RR: 0
Reply 52, posted (5 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 18906 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 51):
TTN starts at 3/wk and goes to 4 in May

Excellent news for a change. I'll be booking a flight this weekend for a New York spring fling and thru CLE no less!!!!

So no comments about the BA thread on potential addition of US routes and our below par FIS facilities?


User currently offlineATLFlyer323 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 613 posts, RR: 0
Reply 53, posted (5 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 18854 times:

Quoting joeman (Reply 52):
I'll be booking a flight this weekend for a New York spring fling and thru CLE no less!!!!

Wow using CLE for a connection? lol. What is your routing/aircraft types?



Everyday, the fluffy temptation of wheat!
User currently offlinefun2fly From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1000 posts, RR: 1
Reply 54, posted (5 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 18773 times:

Quoting joeman (Reply 52):
So no comments about the BA thread on potential addition of US routes and our below par FIS facilities?

If CLE & UA does not announce TATL service as part of their Board Meeting in 2014 in CLE, then CLE has no hub loyalty when chasing TATL service and can certainly court AA for LHR service. At that point, the time frame of "friends" being courteous waiting to make TATL service happen elapses in my mind. While it may be 757 service (not 788) on either BA or AA metal, it's still a good deal as it is LHR and a ton of connections and may be the most successful venture due to that connection offering including a logical point for the UK. AA has shown it will think outside of the box (AUS) and give it a go when it needs to. With AA, they may even be able to use the existing FIS spruced up a bit since they are in the same terminal.

If you take a look at PIT, they invested $9mmm and now have TATL service on a non-hub carrier (former US hub) - similar to what AA would be in CLE. It's continuing on after the subsidy even w/o feed so AA could work in CLE. For CLE, $9mm is peanuts to have this service so it's time to get it done.

At the end of the day, it is UA's to lose. FRA on the 2 class 763 is still my bet.


User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2633 posts, RR: 1
Reply 55, posted (5 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 18685 times:

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 54):
If CLE & UA does not announce TATL service as part of their Board Meeting in 2014 in CLE, then CLE has no hub loyalty when chasing TATL service and can certainly court AA for LHR service.

DEN doesn't even have any UA TALT nonstops.

The last thing that I'm wanting to do is to flame here, but DEN has about 5 times as much O&D DEN-LON than CLE-LON, and I would think that UA would consider DEN (even as the second flight after BA) before it would CLE.

That being said, maybe CLE would have have a much better chance to go after AA/BA/OW for its LHR service. UA international seems committed to the coastal hubs (+ORD) for its TALT nonstops.

 


User currently offlinejoeman From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 690 posts, RR: 0
Reply 56, posted (5 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 18678 times:

Quoting ATLFlyer323 (Reply 53):
Quoting joeman (Reply 52):
I'll be booking a flight this weekend for a New York spring fling and thru CLE no less!!!!

Wow using CLE for a connection? lol. What is your routing/aircraft types?

Who said connection? My routing/aircraft will be CLE-TNN-CLE using an A319.

Do a.netters, especially the aristocrats coming from superhub land by happenstance really have nothing better to do than troll threads to place sarcastic comments on threads that have nothing to do with them? lol also to you.


User currently offlinefun2fly From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1000 posts, RR: 1
Reply 57, posted (5 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 18634 times:

Quoting point2point (Reply 55):
DEN doesn't even have any UA TALT nonstops.

Correct, they have JV metal neutral LH operations on VLA's. It's the same thing.

Quoting point2point (Reply 55):
The last thing that I'm wanting to do is to flame here, but DEN has about 5 times as much O&D DEN-LON than CLE-LON, and I would think that UA would consider DEN (even as the second flight after BA) before it would CLE.

Which is why I suggested that UA would launch FRA. Not sure if you are up on CLE, but they ran TATL LON and CDG in the past out of CLE.

Looking forward to what happens.

Separately, UA is offering some ridiculously low fares, just paid $216 CLE>SEA>CLE next week. DL was pretty close in price also. CLE>SAN>CLE was $289. No reason to drive to CAK or PIT as we always think people do to get lower fares.


User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2633 posts, RR: 1
Reply 58, posted (5 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 18620 times:

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 57):
Not sure if you are up on CLE, but they ran TATL LON and CDG in the past out of CLE.

Not so much giving up, just saying it's probably quite difficult for UA at CLE, considering UA may have other priorities. And maybe that could include the other metal-neutral gangmembers as well?

But it would give CLE a boost (a very big one I imagine) if UA or metal-neutral friends would have a TALT from CLE. All the best with that, but maybe the OW gang would be a better option at this time?

 


User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5214 posts, RR: 7
Reply 59, posted (5 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 18612 times:

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 54):
For CLE, $9mm is peanuts to have this service so it's time to get it done.

Compared to the cost of a convention center or a sports stadium it is; but if you want Sherwin-Williams or Eaton to put their cash on the line, it becomes a daunting sum. OTOH, the Clinic might do it; doctors often have a little-tin-god idea of themselves.  

It's interesting to me that Alexander Mann (a large UK staffing firm) has put their western hemisphere operations center in Cleveland in preference to Raleigh, a city with service to London. Maybe their only necessary London connection is electronic.



Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
User currently offlineATLFlyer323 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 613 posts, RR: 0
Reply 60, posted (5 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 18515 times:

Quoting joeman (Reply 56):
Do a.netters, especially the aristocrats coming from superhub land by happenstance really have nothing better to do than troll threads to place sarcastic comments on threads that have nothing to do with them? lol also to you.

I hope that wasn't geared towards me, I am a CLE supporter. I was excited to hear of someone using CLE for a connection, I wasn't trying to be rude or sarcastic. I'm sorry you took it that way (I live in NE Ohio). Now I know you aren't doing a connection here though, so ok, my bad. Because of your original wording that was what I thought you were doing.

[Edited 2013-11-09 17:53:36]


Everyday, the fluffy temptation of wheat!
User currently offlinejoeman From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 690 posts, RR: 0
Reply 61, posted (5 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 18484 times:

Quoting ATLFlyer323 (Reply 60):

Sorry ATLFlyer323...thought you'd be an ATL guy, you know, where 70%+ or something is about connections....


User currently offlineATLFlyer323 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 613 posts, RR: 0
Reply 62, posted (5 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 18465 times:

Quoting joeman (Reply 61):
Sorry ATLFlyer323...thought you'd be an ATL guy, you know, where 70%+ or something is about connections....

I grew up in ATL but have since moved to NE Ohio for work. (My family is from Ohio too, so I've been coming here every summer since I was young). So I love both CLE and ATL. I promise I wasn't being snippy.



Everyday, the fluffy temptation of wheat!
User currently offlinefun2fly From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1000 posts, RR: 1
Reply 63, posted (5 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 18373 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 59):
Compared to the cost of a convention center or a sports stadium it is; but if you want Sherwin-Williams or Eaton to put their cash on the line, it becomes a daunting sum. OTOH, the Clinic might do it; doctors often have a little-tin-god idea of themselves.

What's a years worth of landing fees worth in $? Isn't that usually part of the seed $?

As for the Clinic, if the connections CLE>FRA>AUH line up, that's a no brainer to support as it will save a lot of time and they are a UA client already. Others would have interest also like Lubrizol if the connections to SIN were good, etc.

Additionally, if CLE wants to get back up off the mat from 3 consecutive 9mm pax years, they need to spur some reason for additional pax and connecting pax and this is the way to do so. More pax = more debt payment, lower operating costs, etc. At 9mm pax, they will never get out of the hole they are in. Not saying they will ever get to 13mm like they used to because UA isn't that interested, but they can do better than their current levels.

On the Frontier side, going to 17 flights a week is good. I'd like to see the DEN grow as they offer good connections going out west at reasonable fares. Who's handling their baggage ops?


User currently offlinencflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 471 posts, RR: 2
Reply 64, posted (5 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 18252 times:

Hard to tell from my handle but I'm a Clevelander and this thread is just plain dull, through no fault of the excellent participants! Nothing changes at this airport. There's international speculation every year or so but it amounts to nothing. UA has quietly cut back flights (even EWR and IAH are no longer served 100% by mainline, flights to FL are way down. . . . . cities that were served by 4 flights per day have been cut back, WN has TOTALLY skinnied down their schedule, etc), and UA has gouged Clevelanders with ridiculous airfares compared to the CO days-- in the proud mold of DL at CVG.


Dull!!   


User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5214 posts, RR: 7
Reply 65, posted (5 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 18088 times:

Quoting ncflyer (Reply 64):
Hard to tell from my handle but I'm a Clevelander and this thread is just plain dull, through no fault of the excellent participants! Nothing changes at this airport.

The whole industry is kind of dull since the big guys quit expanding. It's a lot more fun talking about adding flights than losing them. The mergers are turning US Aviation into a cartel with very gentle competition. DL isn't really out-competing UA; while running a competent operation, they're just standing around watching UA shoot itself in the foot over and over. AA/US will make it even more boring.

Then reading the PIT/STL/CVG/MEM (and maybe CLE next) hub closure threads is totally depressing. If it gets to CLE, I think I'll take up knitting instead.



Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5214 posts, RR: 7
Reply 66, posted (5 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 18007 times:

DL is discontinuing FNT-DTW after Christmas, switching service to MSP. Assuming everybody doesn't drive to DTW, That our to give a boost to the FNT-CLE spoke.


Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
User currently offlinejoeman From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 690 posts, RR: 0
Reply 67, posted (5 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 17836 times:

Quoting ncflyer (Reply 64):
I'm a Clevelander and this thread is just plain dull...Nothing changes at this airport. There's international speculation every year or so but it amounts to nothing. UA has quietly cut back flights. . . . . cities that were served by 4 flights per day have been cut back, WN has TOTALLY skinnied down their schedule, etc), and UA has gouged Clevelanders with ridiculous airfares compared to the CO days-- in the proud mold of DL at CVG.

Sums it up perfectly


User currently offlinecoairman From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 107 posts, RR: 0
Reply 68, posted (5 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 17851 times:

I agree about CLE aviation news being dull. The hub is stagnant and not getting bigger. A new Beechcraft Silver crew base is not anything to brag or clap about.

And in my my honest opinion there will not be any FRA nonstop flights from CLE as there is no profitable market for it. There is only 15-20 people a day in the region that has a need to go to FRA. Origin and destination markets are routes that tend to be more profitable, not connecting traffic through or to FRA from CLE. 15-20 pax a day is not going to work ....so please...enough of this European international CLE nonstop service.

I am just hoping that the CLE HUB doesn't shrink significantly.

I am not trying to be negative, just realistic in terms of the status of other marginal hubs that have faded away in relation to airline mergers like CVG-dl, MEM-dl, PIT-us, CMH-hp, STL-aa, etc.







[Edited 2013-11-11 23:13:45]


Patience Can Be A Virtue.
User currently offlinegreenair727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 544 posts, RR: 0
Reply 69, posted (5 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 17720 times:

Ricky Smith is pay $67 million for two parking lots??!? This will not increase parking by one spot, but just gives the city 'control' of parking. As Port Control needs to reduce costs, it does this. If it is willing to spend money, it should not be buying existing parking lots for the sake of control, and instead, it should be building a new FIS, which is the single most important need in at CLE right now. Something very strange seems afoot.

User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5214 posts, RR: 7
Reply 70, posted (5 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 17693 times:

Quoting greenair727 (Reply 69):
instead, it should be building a new FIS,

Well ... they're borrowing $100 million but only spending $57+16 on the lots. Where is the other $27 going? A FIS less elaborate than that Taj Mahal concept they previewed could probably be had for $27 million.

They better have a commitment from UA, however. Buying the lots betting they can raise parking prices and pay off the debt is a white-knuckle strategy. They already tried that with Air Mall and running in place is the best they're doing with that one (financially at least, the stores are a nice improvement).



Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
User currently offlinegreenair727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 544 posts, RR: 0
Reply 71, posted (5 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 17675 times:

^are you saying maybe they would use some or all of the remaining $27m for a new or improved FIS? If that were the case, I'd be happy about that if it could be made nice enough to attract UA/LH/BA/AA to need to use it...

User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5214 posts, RR: 7
Reply 72, posted (5 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 17642 times:

Quoting greenair727 (Reply 71):
^are you saying maybe they would use some or all of the remaining $27m for a new or improved FIS?

I don't know what they're going to do with the excess and the Jackson City Hall isn't famous for telling us things like that. But it seems like a reasonable application of the funds IF they have some kind of commitment for service. Otherwise, they might as well use it to refinance some higher cost debt - they could probably save close to a million a year in interest through a refi.



Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
User currently offlinegreenair727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 544 posts, RR: 0
Reply 73, posted (5 months 6 days ago) and read 17553 times:

Moving parking further away from the airport, makes the airport less easy to use. I would rather pay a little more and park on-airport, then take the time to park all the way on Snow Road and wait for a shuttle. Time is often tight before catching a flight---and not rebuilding the garage makes this more difficult. Paying an exorbitant amount for surface parking lots adding to DPC's debt is a very questionable move. I'm still not sure what is really at play here, as the single best investment the city can make is a well-developed FIS. The parking situation was NOT a current issue. The FIS is. The future of the hub is. Was CIty Council duped or are they in on some non-public info as well?

User currently offlinecle757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1099 posts, RR: 0
Reply 74, posted (5 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 17455 times:

Cleveland's getting a new hotel..a big one!
http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/loc...led-project-to-change-city-skyline



Cleveland the best location in the Nation
User currently offlinegreenair727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 544 posts, RR: 0
Reply 75, posted (5 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 17349 times:

^Yes---its one, though the biggest, of several downtown hotel projects underway. A new 400-some room Westin will open soon, a new Drury is underway, a Marriott Autograph was just announced, as well as a new LeMeridien. Cleveland is picking up..... hence the need for the new FIS more so than the need to control parking for roughly the same price.

[Edited 2013-11-13 10:21:03]

User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5214 posts, RR: 7
Reply 76, posted (5 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 17358 times:

The "international" concourse at BWI was and still is a huge white elephant. Maybe Ricky Smith is gun shy about repeating that ... well, I won't say fiasco - let's just say it's WAY bigger than what Baltimore needs. BWI is bankrolled by the State of Maryland - not the City of Baltimore, so they don't worry so much about money.


Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
User currently offlinegreenair727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 544 posts, RR: 0
Reply 77, posted (5 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 17387 times:

^ Perhaps. But if so, I hope Ricky Smith realizes metro Washington DC (to include Baltimore) didn't need two international gateways (like NY's EWR and JFK)---that IAD--with a hub carrier to boot--already provided this capacity.

CLE is different as its the ONLY potential gateway in town. If BKL had a giant FIS (and commercial service), I wouldn't push for such at CLE, but this is not the case at BKL.


User currently offlinecle757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1099 posts, RR: 0
Reply 78, posted (5 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 17362 times:

I think the new hotels will help with Cleveland's business and convention's. It seems like CLE has been passed up for alot of things (democratic convention) due to lack of hotel space.


Cleveland the best location in the Nation
User currently offlinefun2fly From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1000 posts, RR: 1
Reply 79, posted (5 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 17192 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 70):
Well ... they're borrowing $100 million but only spending $57 16 on the lots. Where is the other $27 going? A FIS less elaborate than that Taj Mahal concept they previewed could probably be had for $27 million.

I was shocked when I heard this. I thought CLE couldn't get $60mm for a new parking garage onsite, but now they can get $ for offsite lots. Ricky has dreamed of owning Snow road for some time, even some rumors to tear down the Sheraton and put in a super parking garage there and the old long term lot, moving the "onsite" hotel to Snow Rd. Since he and Jackson are hush hush, not sure that we'll know for a bit. Interesting to see what unfolds since it seems like such a quite move on their part.

Airport Fast Park is a great vendor with good service at a fair price. So much for that. If CLE screws w/that, we'll, that's one less reason to go to CLE. They are a national chain and I wonder what prompted them to sell. I was parked in row P today and they were completely full all the way to row R - more robust than in the past presumably due to long term garage being torn down onsite.


User currently offlinegreenair727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 544 posts, RR: 0
Reply 80, posted (5 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 17148 times:

^I think I read somewhere that the operations won't change--they just get $60M up front, then money each month for running the lots.

User currently offlinegreenair727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 544 posts, RR: 0
Reply 81, posted (5 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 17074 times:

^I found the info (but couldn't update my post above):

"The legislation also authorized the airport to enter into a 10-year agreement with Parking Company of America to manage the lots, for a fixed fee of $100,000 a year."

I believe PCA owns the lots right now (and operate under different names, like "FastPark").

http://www.cleveland.com/cityhall/in...veland_city_council_approve_4.html


User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3031 posts, RR: 4
Reply 82, posted (5 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 17009 times:

Demand to PKB looks to get a huge boost, which should help the CLE-PKB flights; although if this goes through it will be years away.

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburg...er-proposed-for-west-virginia.html

http://www.newsandsentinel.com/page/...plant-in-Wood-County.html?nav=5061

However, considering the company is Brazilian and has a US headquarters in PHL I would not be surprised to see US Airways Express re-enter the PKB market from both PHL and CLT (CLT for their Brazilian connections).



FLYi
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5214 posts, RR: 7
Reply 83, posted (5 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 16874 times:

Promising news about the Brazilian cracker proposal; but it's probably too soon for the champagne. Just last week Braskem released their 2014 capital budget and there wasn't any mention or money for a cracker facility. Still, it's a credible company and the Parkersburg/Marietta coimmunity must be excited.

There were posts about the CLE-PKB route a few weeks ago. For an EAS route, it has great loads and must be minting money for Silver. Traffic has risen 60% in the last two years.

It's early days, though. The people in Pennsylvania are still waiting for the sound of bulldozers, and Shell announced their cracker over a year and a half ago.



Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3031 posts, RR: 4
Reply 84, posted (5 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 16852 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 83):
It's early days, though. The people in Pennsylvania are still waiting for the sound of bulldozers, and Shell announced their cracker over a year and a half ago

To be fair, from the start Shell was upfront about the extended multi-year evaluation process, and latest reports suggest that is on track.

If anything, yesterday's news helps validate the potential market to have these types of plants in the region as opposed to piping all the gas to the Gulf refineries.

"Thursday's announcement is proof the petrochemical industry could be a big opportunity for the tristate region, Dewitt Peart, president of the Pittsburgh Regional Alliance, told me.

"For those who have been questioning whether this was going to happen in the Marcellus and Utica shales, I think today was a statement that, yes, in fact, it's going to happen," Peart said. "It will happen in the mid-Atlantic."
"
http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburg...cracker-help-or-harm.html?page=all



FLYi
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5221 posts, RR: 14
Reply 85, posted (5 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 16846 times:

Quoting cle757 (Reply 16):
With the high airfares out of CLE you would think UA would add some mainline flights, like CLE-SAN.

I sure think about that possibility a lot.

Quoting mbm3 (Reply 20):
CLE-SAN is on and off the schedule, I am sure dictated by some arrangement with a cruise line.

The cruise industry here in SAN is pretty dead these days since Mexico cruises are pretty much non-existent.

But I do see our annual "flurry" of a handful of flights between Lindbergh and Hopkins for the Holidays have re-appeared. The usual red-eye roundtrips start I think for the last 2 days of November in 2013 -- a bit earlier than they started last year I think.

PDX-CLE happened this last summer so who knows, maybe SAN-CLE will happen eventually.

bb


User currently offlinegreenair727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 544 posts, RR: 0
Reply 86, posted (5 months 3 days ago) and read 16746 times:

If US and AA merge, LH will likely drop their CLT-MUC flight as LH will lose the Star Alliance feed from US....meaning an LH bird available for CLE-FRA!

User currently offlineATLFlyer323 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 613 posts, RR: 0
Reply 87, posted (5 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 16681 times:

Quoting greenair727 (Reply 86):
meaning an LH bird available for CLE-FRA

I think you may we wishing for too much on that one. Wouldn't that be too much capacity for the route?



Everyday, the fluffy temptation of wheat!
User currently offlinegreenair727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 544 posts, RR: 0
Reply 88, posted (5 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 16680 times:

^LH could upgauge the 330 on the CLT route to someplace that currently has something smaller, and move that smaller equipment to CLE-FRA. (though a 330 in CLE would be nice....)

User currently offlineATLFlyer323 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 613 posts, RR: 0
Reply 89, posted (5 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 16657 times:

Quoting greenair727 (Reply 88):
(though a 330 in CLE would be nice....)

O I agree completely, and I would love to have LH service across the Atlantic! I just wonder if it will be too much capacity. Does anyone think CLE could ever see service with a BA or UA 787 or something... would the 787 maybe allow CLE trans-atlantics to be profitable?



Everyday, the fluffy temptation of wheat!
User currently offlinecle757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1099 posts, RR: 0
Reply 90, posted (5 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 16649 times:

Quoting ATLFlyer323 (Reply 89):
O I agree completely, and I would love to have LH service across the Atlantic! I just wonder if it will be too much capacity. Does anyone think CLE could ever see service with a BA or UA 787 or something... would the 787 maybe allow CLE trans-atlantics to be profitable?

I think the 787 would be great for FRA, alot of cargo is shipped via truck to EWR everyday heading to Europe.



Cleveland the best location in the Nation
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5214 posts, RR: 7
Reply 91, posted (5 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 16590 times:

Quoting greenair727 (Reply 88):
^LH could upgauge the 330 on the CLT route to someplace that currently has something smaller, and move that smaller equipment to CLE-FRA. (though a 330 in CLE would be nice....)

The A330-300 in 217 passenger configuration (with 8F and 48C seats) is the smallest long-range a/c Lufthansa has. Near-term CLE's best hope has to be UA, unless AA would want to do something. Realistically, however, post-merger AA would not have CLE enhancements on their to-do list.  

Some kind of subsidy would change all this.



Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
User currently offlinefun2fly From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1000 posts, RR: 1
Reply 92, posted (5 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 16535 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 91):
The A330-300 in 217 passenger configuration (with 8F and 48C seats) is the smallest long-range a/c Lufthansa has.

I think we need to focus on UA's refurbished 763's with 214 seats if it were to happen.

Quoting cle757 (Reply 90):
I think the 787 would be great for FRA, alot of cargo is shipped via truck to EWR everyday heading to Europe.


Good point that is often overlooked. I believe, UA would be able to upcharge for knocking off one day transit on air cargo for or at a minimum steal some business that goes to JFK/ORD/DTW by providing better service, not to mention only 1 stop to most places via FRA vs. sometimes 2 stops now.

Is there a cargo screening facility in CLE? If not, one would need to be built.


User currently offlinegreenair727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 544 posts, RR: 0
Reply 93, posted (5 months 7 hours ago) and read 16239 times:

^are cargo screening facilities built by the airlines or are gov't? as the city already has UPS and Fedex operations, does that mean that such facilities already exist or are they for the exclusive use of these companies?

User currently offlinegreenair727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 544 posts, RR: 0
Reply 94, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 16022 times:

Cleveland Port Control just issued an SOQ yesterday to move the ARFF from the west end of BKL to Aviation HS "due to....initiatives associated with the City of Cleveland's Lakefront Development Program."

I would have liked to see Aviation HS return to being a school, but hopefully any new office development at BKL will increase the demand at BKL, and hence, a return of scheduled commercial service. I'm still rooting for an hourly shuttle to LGA.


User currently offlinecle757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1099 posts, RR: 0
Reply 95, posted (4 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 15974 times:

http://fox8.com/2013/11/19/united-ai...es-talks-future-in-northeast-ohio/


Cleveland the best location in the Nation
User currently offlineATLFlyer323 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 613 posts, RR: 0
Reply 96, posted (4 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 15951 times:

As the ERJ's are eventually phased out, I wonder what plane will become the backbone of the CLE hub? I would love to see more Q400's and ERJ 175's.


Everyday, the fluffy temptation of wheat!
User currently offlinecle757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1099 posts, RR: 0
Reply 97, posted (4 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 15927 times:

Quoting ATLFlyer323 (Reply 96):
As the ERJ's are eventually phased out, I wonder what plane will become the backbone of the CLE hub? I would love to see more Q400's and ERJ 175's.

It seems like CLE is getting more E170's and CR7's all the time.



Cleveland the best location in the Nation
User currently offlineATLFlyer323 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 613 posts, RR: 0
Reply 98, posted (4 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 15868 times:

Quoting cle757 (Reply 97):
It seems like CLE is getting more E170's and CR7's all the time.

This may be a stupid question, but what aircraft can the jet bridge's on Concourse D handle? Is there enough space between them to handle 737/A320's without compromising the gate next to them, or are they designed only for regionals? If so can they fit the larger wingspans of the E170's/CRJ7/9's over the ERJ145's?



Everyday, the fluffy temptation of wheat!
User currently offlinecle757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1099 posts, RR: 0
Reply 99, posted (4 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 15855 times:

Quoting ATLFlyer323 (Reply 98):

This may be a stupid question, but what aircraft can the jet bridge's on Concourse D handle? Is there enough space between them to handle 737/A320's without compromising the gate next to them, or are they designed only for regionals? If so can they fit the larger wingspans of the E170's/CRJ7/9's over the ERJ145's?

I'm not sure about the E170, but the CR7 will fit. They put the Q400 there and I know the wingspan of those are pretty long. But I think if they adjusted the jetways and ground markings they could put the E170's on D.



Cleveland the best location in the Nation
User currently offlinegreenair727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 544 posts, RR: 0
Reply 100, posted (4 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 15757 times:

Quoting cle757:

http://fox8.com/2013/11/19/united-ai...es-talks-future-in-northeast-ohio/


Is there anything to take away from the article? I doesn't seem like it.


User currently offlinecle757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1099 posts, RR: 0
Reply 101, posted (4 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 15720 times:

Quoting greenair727 (Reply 100):
Is there anything to take away from the article? I doesn't seem like it.

Ya, I'm glad I'm not the only one that didn't get anything from that story



Cleveland the best location in the Nation
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5214 posts, RR: 7
Reply 102, posted (4 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 15771 times:

I listened to the three-and-a-half hour UA Investors' Day webcast. Lots was interesting, but the C-word was never uttered - not once in three and a half hours. The only oblique reference to CLE came when one speaker mentioned "eight" hubs. So was he leaving out GUM or CLE?


Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
User currently offlinegreenair727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 544 posts, RR: 0
Reply 103, posted (4 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 15735 times:

^hmmmmm.... were other hubs mentioned by name? Or was CLE the only absence?

User currently offlinejoeman From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 690 posts, RR: 0
Reply 104, posted (4 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 15720 times:

Quoting cle757 (Reply 101):
Quoting greenair727 (Reply 100):
Is there anything to take away from the article? I doesn't seem like it.

Ya, I'm glad I'm not the only one that didn't get anything from that story

Hated to be the the first one pointing out more of the same canned info, more positive UA publicity without detailed numbers showing the evolving commitment.


User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5214 posts, RR: 7
Reply 105, posted (4 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 15675 times:

Quoting greenair727 (Reply 103):
^hmmmmm.... were other hubs mentioned by name? Or was CLE the only absence?

Oh, yes ... all of them except CLE and GUM.

An interesting comment pertinent to CLE was made by the financial guys. UA is trying to maximize return on investment, not just profitability. One guy said they decided against some more profitable options (dealing with the A319/20 fleet) in favor of a better ROI. So thinking that CLE is profitable may not be enough to save the hub and probably nobody outside the company can guess what CLE's ROI may be. On a more positive note, there will still be a sizable number of 50-seaters for the foreseeable future and those planes are probably as profitable in CLE as anywhere else.



Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6838 posts, RR: 14
Reply 106, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 15627 times:

Quoting joeman (Reply 104):
Quoting cle757 (Reply 101):
Quoting greenair727 (Reply 100):
Is there anything to take away from the article? I doesn't seem like it.

Ya, I'm glad I'm not the only one that didn't get anything from that story

Hated to be the the first one pointing out more of the same canned info, more positive UA publicity without detailed numbers showing the evolving commitment.
Quoting greenair727 (Reply 103):

^hmmmmm.... were other hubs mentioned by name? Or was CLE the only absence?
Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 102):

I listened to the three-and-a-half hour UA Investors' Day webcast. Lots was interesting, but the C-word was never uttered - not once in three and a half hours. The only oblique reference to CLE came when one speaker mentioned "eight" hubs. So was he leaving out GUM or CLE?

The rumblings I hear are that the regional jet pulldown isn't good for CLE. I think if CLE wants to stay at current levels they need to get OO to do at-risk flying under the UA brand. I think absent that, we may start to see another wave of cuts in Fall 2014 when the RJ cuts really kick in. It's hard to say what that really means, but the pressure they are under from Wall Street to emulate Delta does put CLE and probably DEN under greater scrutiny than otherwise. I'd guess that Wall Street will push on both those operations moving forward. I think they definitely will need to move on some sort of strategy in both places to regain some perceived positive financial momentum. It appears from the investors day events that Houston is once again a focus of expansion and I think EWR will be back in focus after the runway constructions is complete. They have done so little in EWR even as DL has vacuumed up assets nearby.


User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5214 posts, RR: 7
Reply 107, posted (4 months 4 weeks ago) and read 15586 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 106):
The rumblings I hear are that the regional jet pulldown isn't good for CLE.

What we haven't yet seen is UA walk away from an important CLE route because of competition, although last summer's 'accommodation' of WN on CLE-LAS came close. WN ran a seasonal flight and UA reduced their sked from 3 to 2 dailies for the duration of WN's operation. Once we see a big route cancelled, it will be impossible to pretend UA has any hopes in CLE.

Whether the 50-seaters come out of CLE next fall when the E175s begin arriving is a good question. At least initially I think the E175s will displace 50-seaters one for one in ORD and EWR, hubs where they really don't want more frequencies. We'll see ...



Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5214 posts, RR: 7
Reply 108, posted (4 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 15371 times:

Silver's Montana service will end on December 9th. The aircraft, spares, and some people will be transfered to the CLE system. This should improve the completion rate and timeliness of Silver's flights, addressing a rising level of complaint in Parkersburg/Marietta, the biggest of the CLE routes.


Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
User currently offlinegreenair727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 544 posts, RR: 0
Reply 109, posted (4 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 15106 times:

^That's good to hear!

On another topic, B6's career page lists CLE as a location (though with zero jobs). Not all cities are listed. For example Cincinnati isn't---so its not just a list of cities and/or destinations.

http://www.jetblue.com/work-here/

Any severe cutback by UA would likely have all the airlines ready to pounce and UA likely knows this.


User currently offlineswacle From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 368 posts, RR: 1
Reply 110, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 15011 times:

On the B6 subject, they had people in CLE several months back. I spotted them scoping out the former NW bag room. Hearing CLE is listed on their jobs page is very intersting....


Aircraft Flown: SF3 DH8 DH4 328 ERJ CRJ CR7 CR9 E70 E75 D9S M80 712 72S 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 739ER 752 318 319 32
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16691 posts, RR: 51
Reply 111, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 14994 times:

[quote]They have done so little in EWR even as DL has vacuumed up assets nearby[/qoute].

They're going all wide body on EWR-LHR, adding four additional 763 flights in addition to the daily 777. Four additional 767 flights is not insignificant.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinegreenair727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 544 posts, RR: 0
Reply 112, posted (4 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 14680 times:

I read on another site, that UA dropped one of the IAD-LHR frequencies for next summer---and have not added a flight from LHR to replace it, nor have the sold/leased the slot. If true, is this slot be coming back to CLE?

User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5214 posts, RR: 7
Reply 113, posted (4 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 14663 times:

Quoting swacle (Reply 110):
On the B6 subject, they had people in CLE several months back. I spotted them scoping out the former NW bag room. Hearing CLE is listed on their jobs page is very intersting....

JetBlue shows lots of cities they don't serve on their webpage. Checking out the bag room is a much better indicator of interest, I'd say. BOS-CLE is a growing market for which UA wants $1000+ (almost a dollar a mile) for a round trip. It would be nice to see B6 on that route. (Plus I have a cousin who is a B6 pilot; it would let her get home now and then.   )



Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5214 posts, RR: 7
Reply 114, posted (4 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 14648 times:

Quoting greenair727 (Reply 112):
I read on another site, that UA dropped one of the IAD-LHR frequencies for next summer---and have not added a flight from LHR to replace it, nor have the sold/leased the slot. If true, is this slot be coming back to CLE?

Well ... DEN or another of the int'l hubs would be more likely, but who knows? Maybe CLE has come up with some kind of subsidy plan.



Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
User currently offlinefun2fly From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1000 posts, RR: 1
Reply 115, posted (4 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 14620 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 114):
Well ... DEN or another of the int'l hubs would be more likely, but who knows? Maybe CLE has come up with some kind of subsidy plan.

When is the board meeting in CLE? I'm surprised to see the decrease from IAD, but I guess that offsets the bump up at EWR. Surely, the slot will be utilized somewhere after what CO paid for them.

Hope all is holding out well at CLE this week with the weather and safe and Happy Thanksgiving.


User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5214 posts, RR: 7
Reply 116, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 14580 times:

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 115):
When is the board meeting in CLE? I'm surprised to see the decrease from IAD, but I guess that offsets the bump up at EWR. Surely, the slot will be utilized somewhere after what CO paid for them.

Meeting is in June. Airlines usually announce international routes about six months ahead of the first flight, so if anything CLE-related is in the works for the summer, look for an announcement not later than late January, domestic usually gets announced not later than late February. Caveat: UA doesn't seem to make a big deal out of CLE-related announcements any more.

IAD has suffered (deservedly?) from the government funding sequester. Travel, an almost completely controlable expense, is always the first thing that gets cut in a crunch.



Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
User currently offlinembm3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 818 posts, RR: 1
Reply 117, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 14585 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 113):
JetBlue shows lots of cities they don't serve on their webpage. Checking out the bag room is a much better indicator of interest, I'd say. BOS-CLE is a growing market for which UA wants $1000+ (almost a dollar a mile) for a round trip. It would be nice to see B6 on that route.

I agree that BOS-CLE is a very likely candidate for B6 and it is very positive to hear that they were scoping out the infrastructure at CLE.

Given the extortionistic revenue management practices of UA, there could be a number of other routes "ripe for the picking" as well.



Let Me Tell You, Landing A 772ER Is Harder Than It Looks!
User currently offlineluv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 50
Reply 118, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 14517 times:

I could see B6 doing some Florida from Cleveland especially on the weekend capturing the cruise line traffic.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlinegreenair727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 544 posts, RR: 0
Reply 119, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 14343 times:

^B6 entering the market could be good for UA. B6 enters, forcing UA to lower fares on certain routes (which B6 could cover through a transfer in BOS), and as a result, more people fly on UA (because of the lower rates), ultimately increasing UA yields.

User currently offlinegreenair727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 544 posts, RR: 0
Reply 120, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 13967 times:

Parking (for cars) rates at CLE to increase. Port Control trying to cash in on their recent parking purchases?

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index...arking_rates_at_cleveland_hop.html


User currently offlinefun2fly From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1000 posts, RR: 1
Reply 121, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 13951 times:

Quoting greenair727 (Reply 120):
Parking (for cars) rates at CLE to increase. Port Control trying to cash in on their recent parking purchases?

Didn't take long. Hope it helps them pay down their debt. Also noticed, due to some of the issues at CLE parking, that Airport Fastpark was nearly sold out the last two times I was there.

Separately, the financing for the 600 room Convention Center hotel was approved so it looks like they will break ground in April. Impressive in CLE that it was not delayed.


User currently offlinembm3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 818 posts, RR: 1
Reply 122, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 13904 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting greenair727 (Reply 86):
If US and AA merge, LH will likely drop their CLT-MUC flight as LH will lose the Star Alliance feed from US....meaning an LH bird available for CLE-FRA!

Maybe not given the BMW contract on the route....



Let Me Tell You, Landing A 772ER Is Harder Than It Looks!
User currently offlinegreenair727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 544 posts, RR: 0
Reply 123, posted (4 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 13735 times:

^what does the BMW contract require of LH?

User currently onlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8090 posts, RR: 24
Reply 124, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 13658 times:

Quoting greenair727 (Reply 120):
Parking (for cars) rates at CLE to increase. Port Control trying to cash in on their recent parking purchases?

They're still cheap. I come from Logan where parking is 3 times as expensive, so 10 or 12$ a day is nothing.



This Website Censors Me
User currently offlinegreenair727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 544 posts, RR: 0
Reply 125, posted (4 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 13442 times:

I just heard that pax arriving at CLE though customs must, after clearing customs, board a bus which takes you to the main terminal area. (If you're connecting at CLE, you're end up on the non-secure side of the TSA screening area.) Is this true about the bus? I had never heard about this before. If true, it sounds like quite the hassle.

User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5214 posts, RR: 7
Reply 126, posted (4 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 13377 times:

Thinking about the possibility of JetBlue in CLE, I can't come up with a better argument than 'maybe'. They recently deferred their order for additional E190's and decided to bash their brains out competing on NYC-LAX/SFO transcons. These are both negatives, although the delivery of A321's could produce a 'trickle-down' availability of smaller planes for CLE-BOS. It will also be instructive to see how they do with DTW-BOS against DL.

If they are successful with the transcons, CLE-BOS looks more likely, but AA/DL/UA have repeatedly shown they will fiercely defend those markets.



Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
User currently offlineluv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 50
Reply 127, posted (4 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 13191 times:

Haven't been through CLE customs in a while though last time you did have to get rescreened after clearing customs to go through the terminal, regardless if connecting or CLE being your final destination. It needs a serious upgrade, update anything to make the whole experience more positive and user friendly


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5214 posts, RR: 7
Reply 128, posted (4 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 13130 times:

It's official that CLE is (or will be in January) a Silver domicile, but it's now strongly rumored that Silver wants to close CLE and move all flights to IAD in 2014. I can see why they want to do that - they could eliminate the Beeches and simplify their operation, so why bother with the domicile shift if its only for a few months? Strange ...


Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
User currently offlinegreenair727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 544 posts, RR: 0
Reply 129, posted (4 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 13028 times:

^maybe some in Silver want to be in IAD, while the others with greater decision-making authority have pushed for CLE? Not sure either.

User currently offlinecoairman From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 107 posts, RR: 0
Reply 130, posted (4 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 12879 times:

Regardless of where Silver Is based, fact is that it's currently an unreliable airline with lots of delays and cancellations. In my opinion, Silver severely tarnishes UNITED's image and I hope a more reliable airline can fly the routes. United would be better off not having Silver as a partner or unloading it off to AA or DL.

I have seen enough of Silver's unreliable performance and the unrelentless maintenance delays and cancelations.



Patience Can Be A Virtue.
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5214 posts, RR: 7
Reply 131, posted (4 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 12749 times:

According to UA's latest schedule, CLE will take a pretty hefty whack after New Years - down to 171 departures on peak days. I believe this is even lower than last year by some single digit number. Quite a few spokes are down to a single flight a day - hardly worth calling them spokes anymore.

Last year UA built things back up to about 200 dailies by summer. I wonder if that will happen this year.



Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
User currently offlineluv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 50
Reply 132, posted (4 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 12709 times:

I would rather have fewer flights then no flights at all. Also UA could be very conservative and better to add if need be then to cut in a panic.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5221 posts, RR: 14
Reply 133, posted (4 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 12669 times:

On a somewhat positive note, I just looked at UA's 12/14 timetable and see that SAN-CLE will operate this year for about 2 1/2 weeks (during the Christmas-New Year's holiday period, between Dec 19 and Jan 6.) Looks like only 3 days will be excluded from the daily service. (The route also ran for a couple of days around Thanksgiving.) As usual, the temporary service is an evening w/b and a red-eye e/b out of Lindbergh; the r/t will be op'd primarily with a 738.

This is more service than some recent years but is probably not any sign that the route might operate more permanently (aka year-round) any time soon. I'd love to see it do so.

Speaking of west coast service, I'll be curious to see if the PDX-CLE service returns in 2014.

bb


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24631 posts, RR: 86
Reply 134, posted (4 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 12452 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Very small beer for you blokes, but Frontier's summer schedule has DEN-CLE going from 5 x weekly to 13 x weekly - almost double daily.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinejoeman From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 690 posts, RR: 0
Reply 135, posted (4 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 12354 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 134):
Very small beer for you blokes, but Frontier's summer schedule has DEN-CLE going from 5 x weekly to 13 x weekly - almost double daily.

mariner

Thanks, best news in...


User currently offlineHighflier92660 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 660 posts, RR: 0
Reply 136, posted (4 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 12208 times:

At which point is the United Cleveland hub going to be relegated to the history category expect for the nebulous semantics? I'm sure those on this thread who work for UAL are aware on a daily basis of the stealth dismantling of what once was a great Continental hub, but Clevelanders and we ex-Clevelanders are paying a hefty surcharge to use United and getting very little in return for one of the highest ticket prices in the U.S.

United continues to take seats out of the market. In a few days- just prior to the Christmas rush- we're flying from LAX to CLE on a midday Boeing 737-700 where UAL used to schedule an early morning 738. Other markets like Tampa Florida are now flown by ERJs and a United Express E-170 is scheduled to RSW. Boston Logan is exclusively ERJ. The mainline to regional shift is accelerating.


User currently offlinencflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 471 posts, RR: 2
Reply 137, posted (4 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12053 times:

Yep Highlflier this point has been made many times on the CLE thread, Clevelanders IMHO are paying a tax on their airfare to keep the UA "hub". CO never used to price fairs to the point where it was desirable to drive to PIT. What galls me the most is that civic organizations are using their dollars on "united for the hub", why in the heck would civic leaders support a hub. PIT has traffic about equal to CLE, MUCH lower airfares to just about everyone, and their traffic count is about equal. From a "hub" CLE gains nothing but higher airfares and service to PKB, MSN, and OKC--- whoopee. I'd rather have decent fares to LGA, BOS, DCA. . . .

Former hubs like RDU, PIT, STL, BNA, are doing 100% fine, in fact I'd argue they are thriving with competitive airfares.


User currently onlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8090 posts, RR: 24
Reply 138, posted (4 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 12038 times:

Quoting ncflyer (Reply 137):
Former hubs like RDU, PIT, STL, BNA, are doing 100% fine, in fact I'd argue they are thriving with competitive airfares.

Last I was in PIT, half the terminal was walled off, carpets were stained and chairs were ripped up. Looked like crap compared to what I remember of the US hub...



This Website Censors Me
User currently offlinejoeman From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 690 posts, RR: 0
Reply 139, posted (4 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 12007 times:

Highflyer92660 and ncflyer are so right on above. Unfortunately as usual, CLE is maybe the only nearly non-competitve large market UA dominates and they'll be calling it a hub (to CLE only) as long as they have one more flight than any other airline. Perhaps UA should share their spoils in the form of higher landing fees etc. for the utter pretense they provide.

User currently offlinecle757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1099 posts, RR: 0
Reply 140, posted (4 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 11887 times:

United has furloughed about 50 people ramp employees to part-time yeserday, so I wouldn't expect any growth in CLE soon!..moral has hit an all time low!


Cleveland the best location in the Nation
User currently offlineluv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 50
Reply 141, posted (4 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 11883 times:

I guess time will tell us what if anything becomes of CLE and UA. Remember unlike other former Ohio hubs CLE actually has a larger base of customers to begin with and is not all connecting passengers.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5214 posts, RR: 7
Reply 142, posted (4 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 11850 times:

Quoting cle757 (Reply 140):
United has furloughed about 50 people ramp employees to part-time yeserday, so I wouldn't expect any growth in CLE soon!..moral has hit an all time low!

The larger topic (500+ laid off or downgraded company-wide) has been discussed in another thread. I guess the somewhat heartening news is that the number in CLE wasn't bigger, although it's hard to take heart if you're one of the fifty.



Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
User currently offlinefun2fly From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1000 posts, RR: 1
Reply 143, posted (4 months 1 day ago) and read 11756 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 133):
Speaking of west coast service, I'll be curious to see if the PDX-CLE service returns in 2014.

It was listed in today's inflight magazine (Dec edition) as a seasonal route if that means anything, same goes for TVC.

I read in the CLE magazine that they have for free in the concourse that the ticketing lobby will get a full makeover in 2015. Anyone know any details?

Quoting mariner (Reply 134):
Very small beer for you blokes, but Frontier's summer schedule has DEN-CLE going from 5 x weekly to 13 x weekly - almost double daily.

Almost guarantees UA will bow down and cut frequency and/or keep the ERJ's on the route. Depending on 319 or 320, believe Frontier may as many seats on their 13x weekly vs. UA's 1x 738, 2x ERJ and 1x CR7 services. Sad that UA can't do more on a hub to hub routing. Every seat was taken Sat and Tues on the 738's this week, not to mention a few oversold.


User currently offlinejoeman From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 690 posts, RR: 0
Reply 144, posted (4 months 16 hours ago) and read 11619 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 142):
The larger topic (500+ laid off or downgraded company-wide) has been discussed in another thread. I guess the somewhat heartening news is that the number in CLE wasn't bigger, although it's hard to take heart if you're one of the fifty.

I'd like to see a breakdown of layoffs/furloughs/reductions at all eight hubs or other system wide, but especially IAH, ORD, EWR, SFO, DEN, IAD, LAX and last and least CLE.


User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5214 posts, RR: 7
Reply 145, posted (4 months 7 hours ago) and read 11544 times:

Quoting joeman (Reply 144):
I'd like to see a breakdown of layoffs/furloughs/reductions at all eight hubs

I tried doing some research to answer your question, but it's difficult working only with public information. The company has been doing piecemeal cuts throughout 2013 all over the system; and now with an announced $2billion savings goal for 2014, the cuts will no doubt continue.

One big number that stood out was 472 layoffs in cargo and ops at EWR earlier this year.

With the January schedule showing only 19 mainline flights in CLE, you have wonder if the plan is for regional airlines to take over the entire ramp operation.



Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
User currently offlinecle757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1099 posts, RR: 0
Reply 146, posted (4 months 7 hours ago) and read 11547 times:

CLE has about 47 full time-ramp going part-time and no furloughs, the ticket agents have 0 and are actually planning on hiring a few.


Cleveland the best location in the Nation
User currently offlinejoeman From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 690 posts, RR: 0
Reply 147, posted (3 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 11339 times:

Thanks for looking MasseyBrown

User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5214 posts, RR: 7
Reply 148, posted (3 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 11347 times:

The PD reports

http://www.cleveland.com/business/in...s_notifies_airpo.html#incart_river

"About 200 of United's 85,000 employees will have unpaid time off and about 625 employees will have their hours reduced to part-time.

David said she could not say for certain how many of United's 2,200 employees at Hopkins would have reduced hours, other than that it would be a "very small percentage."

Based on cle757's report of 47 downgrades at CLE, that number seems like a fair share of the systemwide numbers quoted by the PD.



Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
User currently offlineHighflier92660 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 660 posts, RR: 0
Reply 149, posted (3 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 11227 times:

Of all the photos the Plain Dealer could have used with this, they chose one from last February 22 when United flight 1639 departed runway 6L after a flight from Ft. Lauderdale.   Does this photo fall under the heading of "subliminal ominous foreshadowing?"

United has given Christen David the unenviable task of being Baghdad Bob. Defying all evidence to the contrary, she seems to maintain that the United hub is healthy as ever.


User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5214 posts, RR: 7
Reply 150, posted (3 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 11184 times:

Quoting Highflier92660 (Reply 149):
Of all the photos the Plain Dealer could have used ...

The Plain Dealer is run by soccer moms. They wouldn't know a runway excursion from a daytrip to Cedar Point. Among the many things they do badly is photography.



Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
User currently offlinetlecam From United States of America, joined Jul 2013, 137 posts, RR: 0
Reply 151, posted (3 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 11159 times:

Brett Snyder discussed Cleveland with Brian Znotnins

http://crankyflier.com/2013/12/18/a-...eveland-and-the-operations-center/


User currently offlinejoeman From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 690 posts, RR: 0
Reply 152, posted (3 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 11156 times:

Here we go again, back to the suggestion that CLE is hardly profitable, no other hub data for comparison, the usual dire prospect for sustainability, the abundance of unprofitable 50 seaters they assign here, no responsibility for hacking the ops to make others work better.

So if they drop CLE, problem(s) solved


User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5214 posts, RR: 7
Reply 153, posted (3 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 11041 times:

Quoting joeman (Reply 152):
Here we go again, back to the suggestion that CLE is hardly profitable,

An old Braniff exec, discussing their ex-Panagra South American system, said route profit numbers can be almost anything an airline wants them to be. In BN's case, they wanted to show their bankers a big cash flow and show the South American host countries a small loss. Easy-peasy, said the exec.

CLE could be nicely profitable and UA would still shut it down before they would cut anything at a money-losing major hub. That's why CO was such a happy fit for CLE; CO needed CLE way more than UA does.

Something to think about is what airline would be a good replacement for UA. JetBlue, for example, is apparently unhappy with their present deployment of the E190's. They'd be a nice addition to CLE.   Not saying that would ever happen, but CLE could mean a lot more to B6, than it does to UA.

A clue to the future may be whether UA responds to F9's CLE-DEN service addition.



Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
User currently offlinejoeman From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 690 posts, RR: 0
Reply 154, posted (3 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 10908 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 153):
Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 153):
An old Braniff exec, discussing their ex-Panagra South American system, said route profit numbers can be almost anything an airline wants them to be. In BN's case, they wanted to show their bankers a big cash flow and show the South American host countries a small loss. Easy-peasy, said the exec.

As a finance guy myself, EXACTLY. Finance in city government no less, where info is suited to fit the public to the nth degree.

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 153):
CLE could be nicely profitable and UA would still shut it down before they would cut anything at a money-losing major hub.

EXACTLY...and probably fully accepted now by anyone directly affected who can think for themselves. A story the CLE press would be better off examining than reporting the repetitive rhetoric cheerleading for the devoted UA's dwindling service and fare gouging.

In going forward, the only question the CLE press should ask UA is simply why CLE hasn't been closed considering the now decades of threat by both CO and UA followed by when if ever will the charade end to open the market to more nationally averaged airfares.


User currently offlineluv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 50
Reply 155, posted (3 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 10831 times:

The problem with CLE and any hub is, the fact that you have put all your eggs in one basket. You have one major player who you have to keep happy by keeping other players in the wings. You walk a fine line by keeping your major player happy while attracting new players, though not to many or to quickly. CLE would be better to go the route of BNA or RDU route, just my thoughts.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlinejoeman From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 690 posts, RR: 0
Reply 156, posted (3 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 10775 times:

True, but a fascinating UA reality drawn out in another thread is that most of UA's other hubs are very heavy with competition not only at the same airport but very close by ones (ORD/MDW, EWR/JFK/LGA, IAD/DCA/BWI, IAH/HOU, SLO/SJC/OAK, LAX? DEN with 2 other huge major players?...). Yes, little CAK isn't so far away from dwindling CLE.

User currently offlineluv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 50
Reply 157, posted (3 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 10759 times:

UA owns CLE that part is true, now they just have to take the pieces and make it work. Like I mentioned before unlike other OH hubs CLE actually has passengers and is not dependent on connecting passengers like cvg and cmh was.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlinefun2fly From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1000 posts, RR: 1
Reply 158, posted (3 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 10432 times:

WN moved CAK>LGA to 1.9 per day in April down from 3. Wasn't it originally 4? Wonder if that will cause any ripple effect at CLE. It seems that UA went to RJ's once WN entered that market.

I also saw that UA pulled PHX to less than daily in May. I find this one odd at is was nearly 2x year round on UA in years past. Suddenly no one is going to PHX? Doubtful.


User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5214 posts, RR: 7
Reply 159, posted (3 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 10306 times:

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 158):
WN moved CAK>LGA to 1.9 per day in April down from 3. Wasn't it originally 4? Wonder if that will cause any ripple effect at CLE. It seems that UA went to RJ's once WN entered that market.

CAK-LGA goes back up to 3 with the May schedule.

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 158):
I also saw that UA pulled PHX to less than daily in May.

Last summer, UA discontinued the route and operated CLE-PDX instead. I don't think UA's June schedules are set yet, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it dropped again. PHX's summer combines scorching weather with lousy yields.



Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5214 posts, RR: 7
Reply 160, posted (3 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 9781 times:

UA has announced a special new amenities kit, commemorating their "eight hubs". The first seven, EWR, IAD, ORD, IAH, DEN, SFO, and LAX, are pretty easy selections. But for the eighth hub, we can chose among NRT, GUM, and CLE, all of which have been called hubs by UA in one context or the other.

Has anyone seen a CLE amenities kit? Note: there are no flights offering BusinessFirst from CLE.

[Edited 2014-01-07 12:44:43]


Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5214 posts, RR: 7
Reply 161, posted (3 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 9641 times:

http://newsroom.unitedcontinentalhol...20295&item=124391#assets_117:19329

There is a CLE kit, it turns out - in the center of the picture.



Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
User currently offlinecle757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1099 posts, RR: 0
Reply 162, posted (3 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 9531 times:

Maybe CLE is getting LHR back this summer or new FRA service!!...but probably not.


Cleveland the best location in the Nation
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5214 posts, RR: 7
Reply 163, posted (3 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 9498 times:

DL's new schedule has posted an additional flight CLE-MSP and two additional to JFK for the summer. It would be nice to see them add back CLE-SLC, but no luck so far. While these are just hub feeders, it says that CLE O&D is expected to do well.


Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
User currently offlinegreenair727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 544 posts, RR: 0
Reply 164, posted (3 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 9474 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown:
There is a CLE kit, it turns out - in the center of the picture.

That's a relief! Looks like even if there isn't a business class int'l flight from CLE, people in such seats elsewhere will be given any one of the eight boxes regardless of origin.


User currently offlinefun2fly From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1000 posts, RR: 1
Reply 165, posted (3 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 9476 times: