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Australian Aviation Thread #81  
User currently offlineallrite From Australia, joined Aug 2007, 1994 posts, RR: 4
Posted (8 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 20525 times:

Last thread was at 211 posts so welcome to Australian Aviation #81.

In Australian Aviation Thread # 80 we discussed:

* Qantas A330 deliveries and configuration
* Qantas 767 seat pitch
* Jetstar 787 VH-VKA flights and
* Future Jetstar basing - Japan?
* Qantas fleet numbers now and historical
* Scoot to Perth
* Virgin Australia Embraer stops in Portugal and Greece
* When will the A380 get to Perth?
* Qantas aircraft utilisation
* Can Jetconnect operate long ETOPS flights on behalf of Qantas where they are not permitted by CASA?
* QF52, QF8 delays,
* Etihad flyover for Opera House 40th
* Who would fly to Tamworth Wellcamp?
* Busy ROK with military exercises
* Air India 787 goes tech in Sydney
* UA N182UA blows its tyres
* New Qantas Aboriginal livery revealed - Mendoorwoorrji
* Qantas yields fall
* VA inflight entertainment availability
* Will we see new airlines flying to Australia?
* Premium seating trial on the JQ 787
* China Southern A380 begins flights to Sydney
* Sichuan Airlines to start Sydney
* Qantas FF points for QR?
* Perth expansion plans

Remember your safety is our *first* priority...


Applying insanity to normality
243 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinejetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2204 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 20536 times:

Air India 787 AOG in MEL dues cracked windshield


Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
User currently offlineTruemanQLD From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 1511 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 20276 times:

Anyone know how Garuda is doing in BNE? I know a flight last week that had a load factor of around 15%. Hopefully this was just a one off?

User currently offlineeta unknown From Comoros, joined Jun 2001, 2071 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 19918 times:

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 2):
Anyone know how Garuda is doing in BNE? I know a flight last week that had a load factor of around 15%. Hopefully this was just a one off?

I'd say a one-off. Remember this is low season and the route has only been operating since AUG. This month VA have reduced BNE-DPS from 9 to 8 weekly and TG have been subbing a 772 for a 773 over the last few months at a loss of about 100 seats/flight (nothing to do with the AOG a while back- BNE-BKK loads are way down).


User currently offlineeaglefarm4 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 425 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (8 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 19602 times:

Speaking of my city BNE Philippines are changing from 320's to 321's for 8-9 weeks from Sunday week.They are brand new aircraft .


tourismman
User currently offlineQF2220 From Australia, joined Aug 2013, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 19532 times:

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 2):
I know a flight last week that had a load factor of around 15%.

Is it even worth operating this flight? Surely they could cancel this and put people on other flights and reduce the losses. Being able to say a daily service cannot surely be worth that much to GA??


User currently offlineDeltaB717 From Australia, joined Jun 2012, 382 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 19467 times:
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Quoting QF2220 (Reply 5):
Is it even worth operating this flight? Surely they could cancel this and put people on other flights and reduce the losses. Being able to say a daily service cannot surely be worth that much to GA??

It is worth it if the flight in the opposite direction is full or close to it  


User currently offlineeaglefarm4 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 425 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (8 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 19419 times:

Speaking of Garuda we now have had 15 different aircraft do the route along with 3 new ones in the past week.


tourismman
User currently offlineTruemanQLD From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 1511 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 19313 times:

Quoting QF2220 (Reply 5):
s it even worth operating this flight? Surely they could cancel this and put people on other flights and reduce the losses. Being able to say a daily service cannot surely be worth that much to GA??

I would have thought not, especially given VA has a flight ~30mins later and that flight could have easily put those passengers on, or just shift them a day earlier or later... obviously some reason though


User currently offlineAeroplaneFreak From Australia, joined Sep 2006, 539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 18907 times:
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Rumour going around that VH-VKA is having engine mount and passenger evacuation.

First commercial flight is still scheduled for November 13th.


User currently offlineTruemanQLD From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 1511 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 18862 times:

Quoting AeroplaneFreak (Reply 9):

I don't follow... can you elaborate?


User currently offlineThunderB From Australia, joined Oct 2010, 39 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 18857 times:

Quoting AeroplaneFreak (Reply 9):
shift them a day earlier or later... obviously some reason though

GA and any other service needs to be seen as consistent with their product and service reliability. Most times the return flight has the yields that make the return trip worthy anyway...

r


User currently offlineben175 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 674 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 18855 times:

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 8):
I would have thought not, especially given VA has a flight ~30mins later and that flight could have easily put those passengers on, or just shift them a day earlier or later... obviously some reason though

Have you thought of the fact perhaps the inbound flight from DPS was full? I've been on a flight on QF back in the day on HNL-SYD where the flight flew in that morning absolutely chockers... and the return had less than 50 people on it!


User currently offlineAeroplaneFreak From Australia, joined Sep 2006, 539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 18798 times:
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Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 10):
I don't follow... can you elaborate?

Just a rumour that she is having engine mount and passenger evacuation problems.

However first flight is still scheduled for November 13th.


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4847 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (8 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 18742 times:

Quoting AeroplaneFreak (Reply 13):
Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 10):
I don't follow... can you elaborate?

Just a rumour that she is having engine mount and passenger evacuation problems.

However first flight is still scheduled for November 13th.

Sorry for sounding like a broken record but can you elaborate as what's happened to VH-VKA???

I'm sorry but "Just a rumour that she is having engine mount and passenger evacuation problems." Doesn't cut it or make any sense!

EK8413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineThunderB From Australia, joined Oct 2010, 39 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 18723 times:

EK8413

It sounds like their proving flights are not going to their plans due to CASA requirements to ensure all the T's are crossed and I's are dotted.


User currently offlineQF2220 From Australia, joined Aug 2013, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 18697 times:

Quoting DeltaB717 (Reply 6):
It is worth it if the flight in the opposite direction is full or close to it

Very vaild point.... Bit of an oversight on my part!


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4847 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (8 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 18650 times:

Quoting ThunderB (Reply 15):

EK8413

It sounds like their proving flights are not going to their plans due to CASA requirements to ensure all the T's are crossed and I's are dotted.

Cheers, I was somewhat confused trying to workout "engine mount issues, evacuation issues".

EK8413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlinejetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2204 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 18622 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 17):
evacuation issues".

I would love CASA to try and knock back the 335 pax seating - its VERY cramped. More seats than the A330 which is a bigger plane with more exits



Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
User currently offlineAeroplaneFreak From Australia, joined Sep 2006, 539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 18592 times:
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Latest I have heard is that CASA have not given an approval, Too many seats, not enough exits.

This is just rumour, but from a trusted source.


User currently offlinejetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2204 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 18572 times:

Quoting AeroplaneFreak (Reply 19):
Too many seats, not enough exits.

It comes back to the FAA certification. Although originally the 787-8 was designed as a 250 pax a/c. I dont think CASA has the power to challenge the FAA. What was the FAA evacuation certification? CASA just likes being difficult



Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
User currently offlineDitzyboy From Australia, joined Feb 2008, 711 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (8 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 18458 times:

Quoting jetfuel (Reply 18):
More seats than the A330 which is a bigger plane with more exits

The 787 and A330 share the same number of exits - 8.

Quoting AeroplaneFreak (Reply 19):
Too many seats, not enough exits

Are you suggesting that Jetstar did not take into account CASA regulations, exit design and limitations when planning their interiors?


User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5606 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (8 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 18391 times:

Quoting jetfuel (Reply 20):
I dont think CASA has the power to challenge the FAA

Of course they do! Any aircraft on the Australian register must be type certified by CASA. This certification is based off the FAA/EASA type certification PLUS any additional requirements CASA MAY impose.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineallrite From Australia, joined Aug 2007, 1994 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 17781 times:

Quoting AeroplaneFreak (Reply 19):

Latest I have heard is that CASA have not given an approval, Too many seats, not enough exits.

It appears that the rumours are wrong. CASA has approved Jestar's 787.



Applying insanity to normality
User currently offlinetravelhound From Australia, joined May 2008, 913 posts, RR: 12
Reply 24, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 17691 times:

Quoting Ditzyboy (Reply 21):
Are you suggesting that Jetstar did not take into account CASA regulations, exit design and limitations when planning their interiors?

I'd suggest this come down to CASA allowing Jetstar to add the 787 to its AOC. If there is substance to this rumour it is probably more of a paperwork / training issue , than an FAA certification issue.

[Edited 2013-11-06 20:41:07]

User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 25, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 17874 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Perth will get NZs first 787 route, followed by Auckland - Tokyo and Auckland - Shanghai.. Cabin configuration will be"

18 lie-flat Business Premier zone in a herringbone layout
21 premium economy (2-3-2 layout).
263 in economy, including 14 rows of 'Skycouch' (32 inch seat pitch, 17.2 inches wide).

302 seats total.

http://theflyingsocialnetwork.com/site/article/auckland-perth-787
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ticle.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11153204

Nice to see NZ finally announce the layout and first routes. Really good to see the 787-9 won't be in much of a leisure configuration as first thought


User currently offlinebwwt From Australia, joined Jul 2013, 68 posts, RR: 0
Reply 26, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 17732 times:

Brisbanes second aiport, Archerfield is looking to start passenger services next year, apparently in talks with two airlines.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/busine...vices/story-fnihsps3-1226754604504


User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5167 posts, RR: 4
Reply 27, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 18011 times:

Quoting bwwt (Reply 26):
Archerfield is looking to start passenger services next year

I got a good laugh out of this:

Quote:
The services will be targeted at business travellers with two flights a day, three days a week from the airport, 11km southwest of the CBD

Sounds like a prime business schedule  


In all honesty, and I hate to sound cynical, but I'll only believe it when I see it.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4847 posts, RR: 4
Reply 28, posted (8 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 17722 times:

Quoting AeroplaneFreak (Reply 19):
Latest I have heard is that CASA have not given an approval, Too many seats, not enough exits.

This is just rumour, but from a trusted source.

Sounds as though the 'trusted source' got it wrong...

Quoting allrite (Reply 23):

Any idea as to when VH-VKB is scheduled for delivery?

EK8413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineThunderB From Australia, joined Oct 2010, 39 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (8 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 17681 times:

Yes certification of an aircraft is one thing, the second is the proving flight of said aircraft for crew operational purposes. IT can take a few goes if the airline doesn't show that their SOP's etc need changes or crew need more training on said aircraft. VKA can fly around as much as it wants, thou it needs to be certified by CASA for RPT service.

User currently offlineallrite From Australia, joined Aug 2007, 1994 posts, RR: 4
Reply 30, posted (8 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 17502 times:

Qantas has confirmed the closure of it's Avalon maintenance facility - looking at moving it to elsewhere in Australia (presumably Brisbane) or overseas. Media release.


Applying insanity to normality
User currently offlinetullamarine From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1510 posts, RR: 0
Reply 31, posted (8 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 17372 times:

You'd assume all future 747 heavy maintenance will be done overseas but QF probably wouldn't want to announce that as it is a bad" look.

QF's PR was a bit of a disaster anyway with Avalon staff told that if they talked to the media they could lose their redundancy. Strambi later said that this was a mixed up message that the HR staff at AVV got wrong but the damage was already done.



717,721/2,732/3/4/5/7/8/9,742/3/4,752/3,762/3,772,W,A310,320,321,332,333,388,DC9,DC10,F28,F100,142,143,E90,CR2,D82/3/4,S
User currently offlineTruemanQLD From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 1511 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (8 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 17238 times:

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 31):

It's so interesting how VA get a free ride in the press but QF get picked up for everything.

The figures they provided about AVV (22months down time in 4 years) are astounding and it is a no brainer it will be closed. Hopefully gets moved to BNE with the rest of QF maintenance (correct? BNE will be the only Oz-based heavy maintenance for QF now?) but agreed will probably move overseas. Shame but can hardly blame them.


User currently offlineQFVHOQA From Australia, joined Mar 2012, 412 posts, RR: 0
Reply 33, posted (8 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 17131 times:

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 32):
It's so interesting how VA get a free ride in the press but QF get picked up for everything.

The figures they provided about AVV (22months down time in 4 years) are astounding and it is a no brainer it will be closed. Hopefully gets moved to BNE with the rest of QF maintenance (correct? BNE will be the only Oz-based heavy maintenance for QF now?) but agreed will probably move overseas. Shame but can hardly blame them.

Considering VA/DJ was started by a Brit, it doesn't attract the same national pride that QF has benefited from (been lumbered with?).
I see QF looking at using HAECO to maintain their 744s in HKG, as they could be rotated through the SYD-HKG flights.

I'm tired of the union bleating that "...work done in Asia had proved less reliable than work done at facilities like Avalon.". SQ seem to do quite well with their maintenance, as ex-SQ aircraft usually get sold rather quickly. It certainly doesn't stop Australians flying Asian airlines, so maintaining a fleet in Asia is obviously acceptable to the travelling public.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24995 posts, RR: 85
Reply 34, posted (8 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 17090 times:
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Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 33):
Considering VA/DJ was started by a Brit, it doesn't attract the same national pride that QF has benefited from (been lumbered with?)

I think you are quite right about the "national pride" but I'm a bit cynical about what it means.

"National pride" hasn't stopped Australians flocking to foreign airlines - and then throwing rocks at Qantas while they nibble on their satays or kebabs.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5167 posts, RR: 4
Reply 35, posted (8 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 17085 times:

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 33):
It certainly doesn't stop Australians flying Asian airlines, so maintaining a fleet in Asia is obviously acceptable to the travelling public

Exactly, that is - arguably - the strongest counter argument against the "Asian maintenance is inferior"

That said, I could quite easily imagine someone nodding along and agreeing that work done in Asia is inferior and that the only way to ensure the aircraft is safe is to maintain it in Australia yada yada yada, and then turn around and book a flight with Singapore or Cathay.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineQFVHOQA From Australia, joined Mar 2012, 412 posts, RR: 0
Reply 36, posted (8 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 17054 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 34):
I think you are quite right about the "national pride" but I'm a bit cynical about what it means.

"National pride" hasn't stopped Australians flocking to foreign airlines - and then throwing rocks at Qantas while they nibble on their satays or kebabs.

mariner

I agree that the benefit to QF is negligible or even negative. But the attackes on QF would likely be due to it's longtime government ownership. People see the network shrink, and want QF to fly to "their" preferred destinations. There is a sense of entitlement regarding where QF flies - it should fly where I want to go, but I choose not to fly it. I think SA & NZ suffer from the same problem.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 35):
That said, I could quite easily imagine someone nodding along and agreeing that work done in Asia is inferior and that the only way to ensure the aircraft is safe is to maintain it in Australia yada yada yada, and then turn around and book a flight with Singapore or Cathay.

I wonder who Steve Purvinas flies with?   
The people that spout this rubbish also probably complain about manufacturers going to Asia while wearing clothes made in China..


User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5167 posts, RR: 4
Reply 37, posted (8 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 17042 times:

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 36):
The people that spout this rubbish also probably complain about manufacturers going to Asia while wearing clothes made in China

  



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24995 posts, RR: 85
Reply 38, posted (8 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 16982 times:
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Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 36):
I agree that the benefit to QF is negligible or even negative. But the attackes on QF would likely be due to it's longtime government ownership. People see the network shrink, and want QF to fly to "their" preferred destinations. There is a sense of entitlement regarding where QF flies - it should fly where I want to go, but I choose not to fly it.

I'm sure that's exactly the reason for it. I see commentators and journalists yearning to get back to the good ol' glory days with Qantas flying the flag all over the world, and attacking Qantas for not doing that now. I remember the angst and hand wringing when Qantas dropped FRA - the last destination in continental Europe.

It doesn't help that airline junkies are growth-oriented by nature and any pull back suggests that Qantas - and thus, by implication Australia - has somehow failed.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineBenSandilands From Australia, joined Mar 2013, 220 posts, RR: 0
Reply 39, posted (8 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 16578 times:

Speaking as a journalist I would like to see a link to any commentary since the turn of the century calling for Qantas to spread the flag all over the world.

Most of the commentary and reporting has been a regurtiation of media releases.

However one thing that this reporter and the group CEO of Qantas actually agree on its the desirability of Qantas expanding back into places in Europe where it has previously been, or even new destinations.

Mr Joyce has spoken firmly and on the record on the desirability of running 787-9s from Dubai into some of those markets. He has even been backed up by Mr Clark at Emirates.

The commentary that is now truly damaging to Qantas is not by and large from the media, but from the proprietary and copyright protected financial services bulletins that I'm sure some of those in the room will be familiar with. The share price reflects this.

That commentary doesn't take issue in most cases with the narrative that Qantas is a hopless position geoegrpahically and that the Australian economy is dragged down by unions, lack of productivity and so forth. It does however increasingly take issue with the performance of Qantas management.

These people want to know what happened to the single aisle premium Asia based carrier that Qantas would control from a minority equity position. They want to know why Jetstar Hong Kong was to be set up to be a Qantas controlled entity which by definition is prohibited by HK's basis law.

They want results. The defining issue in my opinion in the next year or so will be the need to exercise or lose options on deliveries for 787-9s starting in 2016. The investment community wants to see words turned into deeds, and dividends.

[Edited 2013-11-08 12:31:40]

User currently offlineRotation From Australia, joined Sep 2010, 49 posts, RR: 0
Reply 40, posted (8 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 16549 times:

Going to show my QF ignorance here - but why didn't they do A380 maintenance out of AVV? Hangars not big enough?


AN YC BA QF JQ DJ NZ AA B6 TT VA WN VX UA SQ EY
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24995 posts, RR: 85
Reply 41, posted (8 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 16533 times:
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Quoting BenSandilands (Reply 39):
Speaking as a journalist I would like to see a link to any commentary since the turn of the century calling for Qantas to spread the flag all over the world.

I'm sure we all see things differently - I can only report what I have seen, from a slight (NZ) remove, both in the media and the social media.

I'm sure your perspective is different, given that you are a journalist and you may have more respect for (or be more forgiving of) the media generally than I do.

My personal association with the media, that is print journalism, has been less than happy. Statements I have made have been either quoted out of context or the context of them changed to fit in with the journalists own, preconceived agenda. On several occasions I have been told that a journalist wants to discuss my work, and the interview proceeds with some of that, but all that finally appears in the article are comments about my sexuality.

I note the headline in The Age today:

http://www.theage.com.au/travel/trav...-axes-300-jobs-20131108-2x774.html

"Fears over safety as Qantas closes Avalon facility, axes 300 jobs"

While that is "true" is not not reflective of who has the fears and the addition of one word - "Union" - might have been a more accurate representation of the truth, if less alarmist. Nor do I read in the article any of even the more obvious counterbalancing arguments in favour of outsourcing.

Generally, with regard to Qantas, it is my view that many of the commentators - not all - latch onto the negative while giving Virgin Australia a free pass. Virgin's losses have frequently been forgiven as "building for the future" - the Qantas losses have not been shown the same generosity.

I also recall particularly happened at the the time of the grounding, when I was one of the very few voices - here - to suggest that Mr. Joyce might have a case and might win, and I was hauled over the coals for even daring to suggest it. This was reflective of many - not all - of the attitudes that appeared in the media.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineBenSandilands From Australia, joined Mar 2013, 220 posts, RR: 0
Reply 42, posted (8 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 16485 times:

Mariner,

Such comments directed to anyone are to be condemned. I'm deeply sorry that this sort thing continues to happen, and that it has happened to you.

I'm both very critical and despairing of what had happened to my profession. By and large the responsibility for content in media sites and papers has shifted to the PR and image management trade, and the notion of quizzical or experienced writers has withered on the vine as the traditional media has become much less sustainable or profitable.

In the early 80s reporters who repeated PR material without doing original inquries and fact checking were rountely fired by newspapers. Today their successors are pestered to top and tail PR handouts to provide safe, commercially sound commentary and in volume. Some good people cling to their positions in this country, and I'm quite concerned for the future of some of them.

Similarly I'n not thrilled by social media where it creates walled gardens behind which only content that is 'liked' exists and there is very little fact checking in evidence from what are often anonymous contributors some of whom are just trolling.

As a writer I'm often surprised too by how selectively reports can be read. I recall a recent interview I did with Mr Joyce in which he detailed the plan to refurbish all of the business class seats in the A330s which despite the use of quotation marks was argued to be speculation. There is a thread on this forum concerning T4 at SIN in which it is abundantly clear that some but not all of those in the discussion had actually read the source material.

Differing opinions are good. It's good to share and learn. It's not good for you or anyone to be pestered, bullied, and treated in a rude and disrespectful manner.


User currently offlineqf2220 From Australia, joined Aug 2013, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 43, posted (8 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 16440 times:

Quoting Rotation (Reply 40):
Going to show my QF ignorance here - but why didn't they do A380 maintenance out of AVV? Hangars not big enough?

I suspect recognition that as 9 frames of 744 are not going to support AVV, then 12 frames of A380 are not going to be enough either.

Quoting mariner (Reply 41):
Generally, with regard to Qantas, it is my view that many of the commentators - not all - latch onto the negative while giving Virgin Australia a free pass. Virgin's losses have frequently been forgiven as "building for the future" - the Qantas losses have not been shown the same generosity.

Im afraid that this is an example of Australia's tall poppy syndrome being demonstrated pure and simple. Nothing more nothing less. It is something that QF needs to (and does) deal with.

Quoting BenSandilands (Reply 42):
I'm both very critical and despairing of what had happened to my profession. By and large the responsibility for content in media sites and papers has shifted to the PR and image management trade, and the notion of quizzical or experienced writers has withered on the vine as the traditional media has become much less sustainable or profitable

Off topic warning. Perhaps the role of the media is no longer what it was. What organisation is going to replace, it I do not know. Im sure that Ben can speak volumes on this (though this is not the place for that I am sure). But then that is change. Perhaps (whilst we might think it does) current society does not need the media of old that was investigating the clear moral hazard that was the thing of the 70´s, 80´s, 90s´. Is the moral hazard of the 00s, 10s as clear to us as it was in the past?


User currently offlinetravelhound From Australia, joined May 2008, 913 posts, RR: 12
Reply 44, posted (8 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 16387 times:

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 32):
The figures they provided about AVV (22months down time in 4 years) are astounding and it is a no brainer it will be closed. Hopefully gets moved to BNE with the rest of QF maintenance (correct? BNE will be the only Oz-based heavy maintenance for QF now?) but agreed will probably move overseas. Shame but can hardly blame them.

That is one PR take on it.

I would suggest even if they were able to keep the Avalon base busy 12 months of the year it would still have a significant cost disadvantage to an Asian MRO.

I would argue the backwards and forwards between the unions and QF to save the facility was probably more of a PR stunt on QF's part than anything else.


User currently offlinevhebb From Australia, joined Apr 2011, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 45, posted (8 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 16302 times:

Let's not forget that QFs domestic competitors don't do any heavy checks in Australia.

User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24995 posts, RR: 85
Reply 46, posted (8 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 16293 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting BenSandilands (Reply 42):
Such comments directed to anyone are to be condemned. I'm deeply sorry that this sort thing continues to happen, and that it has happened to you.

Thanks, Ben.

My opinion of the media is not high, but I have the hide of a rhinoceros and - mostly - it rolls off. It strikes me curious that the fact that I aim the only Australian - ever - to have an Image Award from the NAACP, the (US) National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, is considered totally irrelevant in the face of the fact that I do it with blokes.

But I will go to my grave believing that at least some of the more extreme union antagonism - and perhaps some of the media - towards Mr. Joyce is because of that.

Quoting BenSandilands (Reply 42):
Differing opinions are good. It's good to share and learn.

  

I read your blog every day. I don't always agree with you (as you might have guessed), but it usually enriches my knowledge.

mariner

[Edited 2013-11-08 16:28:21]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8748 posts, RR: 5
Reply 47, posted (8 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 16225 times:

Apparently AR plans to discontinue services to SYD effective 02APR14 due to "operational constraints" associated with the a/c AR deploys on the loss-making route. Thus Qantas and LAN will be the only carriers linking Australia with South America.
Link in Spanish:
http://www.telam.com.ar/movil/notas/...ra-los-vuelos-durante-el-2014.html


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4847 posts, RR: 4
Reply 48, posted (8 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 16036 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 47):
Apparently AR plans to discontinue services to SYD effective 02APR14 due to "operational constraints" associated with the a/c AR deploys on the loss-making route. Thus Qantas and LAN will be the only carriers linking Australia with South America.
Link in Spanish:
http://www.telam.com.ar/movil/notas/....html

Interesting,I wonder if QF could operate a SYD-SCL-EZE service during downtime in SCL if timings permits.

EK8413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6405 posts, RR: 39
Reply 49, posted (8 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 16016 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 47):

Wait, so they're not going to take the SQ A345s either?



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8748 posts, RR: 5
Reply 50, posted (8 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 15948 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 49):
Wait, so they're not going to take the SQ A345s either?

Unknown. AR plans to phase out 4 A-342s and 2 A-343s in the coming months. Even with the 4 A-330s joining their fleet, the airline will still require additional wide-body a/c in order to operate certain regional and long-haul routes...


User currently offlineQFVHOQA From Australia, joined Mar 2012, 412 posts, RR: 0
Reply 51, posted (8 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 15937 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 47):
Apparently AR plans to discontinue services to SYD effective 02APR14 due to "operational constraints" associated with the a/c AR deploys on the loss-making route. Thus Qantas and LAN will be the only carriers linking Australia with South America.

Very strange news considering AR are supposed to take on the ex-SQ A345s. That would be a more reliable aircraft to operate the EZE-SYD route than their old A342s.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 48):
Interesting,I wonder if QF could operate a SYD-SCL-EZE service during downtime in SCL if timings permits.

QF currently only sits on the ground in SCL for ~2.5 hours so the schedule would need to change to accommodate an EZE tag. Probably easier just to send pax via LA or 4M to AEP.


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8748 posts, RR: 5
Reply 52, posted (8 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 15740 times:

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 51):

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 47):
Apparently AR plans to discontinue services to SYD effective 02APR14 due to "operational constraints" associated with the a/c AR deploys on the loss-making route. Thus Qantas and LAN will be the only carriers linking Australia with South America.

Very strange news considering AR are supposed to take on the ex-SQ A345s. That would be a more reliable aircraft to operate the EZE-SYD route than their old A342s.

According to AR, the carrier is dropping the EZE-SYD route for many reasons including:
-The route is unprofitable for AR.
-AR will not have an a/c capable of flying EZE-SYD non-stop. The carrier also states that in order to operate the route non-stop, it would have to incorporate a subfleet of a/c that undermines its business plan.
-Australia is not a top destination for pax originating in Argentina.
-The route does not carry many tourists from Australia to Argentina.
-At least 20% of the seats on each sector are blocked for operational reasons.
Link in Spanish: http://www.aerolineas.com.ar/es-AR/P...e-incrementara-vuelos-durante-2014

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 51):
QF currently only sits on the ground in SCL for ~2.5 hours so the schedule would need to change to accommodate an EZE tag. Probably easier just to send pax via LA or 4M to AEP.

Indeed, a tag-on to EZE would significantly increase QF's costs on the route making it unviable. LAN and its affiliates operate up to 10 daily non-stop flights between SCL and BUE. Connections to the Argentine cities of COR and MDZ are also bookable via QF's website.


User currently offlineQFVHOQA From Australia, joined Mar 2012, 412 posts, RR: 0
Reply 53, posted (8 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 15622 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 52):
Link in Spanish: http://www.aerolineas.com.ar/es-AR/P...-2014

The poor translation offered by Google Chrome also mentioned that approx 45% of pax are connecting to other South American countries. Seems like the goal of the airline is solely to bring pax to Argentina.

Just saw on the news in Sydney a story regarding the diversion of QF460 last night. Apparently it was "a flight from hell that pax won't forget any time soon." It was also noted for some reason that it was a female pilot. The story went on to highlight that the flight diverted to a "military base" in Newcastle - never mind that it is also the commercial airport NTL. It's like saying a plane that diverts to CBR ended up at RAAF Fairbairn..
This Fairfax story is slightly less sensational Two hurt as planes diverted from Sydney airport


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4847 posts, RR: 4
Reply 54, posted (8 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 15142 times:

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 51):
QF currently only sits on the ground in SCL for ~2.5 hours so the schedule would need to change to accommodate an EZE tag. Probably easier just to send pax via LA or 4M to AEP.

I suppose your right in saying passengers can connect on LA or 4M. Another option I suppose would be for QF to increase frequency on the SCL route from 3 to 5?

It really makes my blood boil when I read such comments from the article.

Media commentator Jane Caro, who was on board the flight from Melbourne, said Qantas had "dumped" passengers at Sydney Airport during curfew hours, when no taxis were available.

Next time QF should leave the passengers stranded in NTL & allow the passengers make their own way home.

Dr Oliver, who arrived back in Sydney yesterday afternoon almost 24 hours after leaving Perth, questioned why the planes were allowed to fly in such terrible weather conditions.

It's obvious the weather condition changed whilst on route and ain't as though the airline can be bllamed for Mother Nature!

EK8413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently onlineZuluAlpha From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 397 posts, RR: 0
Reply 55, posted (8 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 15109 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 54):
It's obvious the weather condition changed whilst on route and ain't as though the airline can be bllamed for Mother Nature!

Of course it can be blamed .. It is Qantas we're all talking about   



CRJ CR7 D10 DHT DH8 DH2 DH3 DH4 EMB ER3 E90 F28 J32 M80 SH6 320 332 333 380 717 732 733 734 738 743 744 752 762 763 772
User currently offlineqf2220 From Australia, joined Aug 2013, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 56, posted (8 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 15080 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 54):
I suppose your right in saying passengers can connect on LA or 4M. Another option I suppose would be for QF to increase frequency on the SCL route from 3 to 5?

Quite a possibility. But are there enough frames in the fleet to let this happen? I guess they can delay a retirement of a 744 for a bit longer.

Im still not sure how to reconcile the AR A345 acquisition and this news, ie, is this just a temporary situation?

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 52):
-AR will not have an a/c capable of flying EZE-SYD non-stop. The carrier also states that in order to operate the route non-stop, it would have to incorporate a subfleet of a/c that undermines its business plan.

Refer above to A345 comment. Is this not a subfleet??


User currently offlineben175 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 674 posts, RR: 0
Reply 57, posted (8 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 14698 times:

Indonesia AirAsia is adding a seasonal 5th daily PER-DPS service between Jan 3 to March 24 2014.

Schedule is as follows:
QZ8414 DPS 1305 PER 1645 320
QZ8415 PER 1810 DPS 2155 320


User currently offlineTruemanQLD From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 1511 posts, RR: 0
Reply 58, posted (8 months 2 weeks ago) and read 14602 times:

KRudd is in the media today putting his support behind a 'trial' of an 11pm-6am curfew once the new parallel runway opens in 2020. Without getting political in discussion, I hope this does not happen. Many international flights arrive presently before 6am (some before 5am) and a bundle leave after 11pm. Would be a nightmare for International operations.

User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 2909 posts, RR: 20
Reply 59, posted (8 months 2 weeks ago) and read 14542 times:

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 58):
KRudd is in the media today putting his support behind a 'trial' of an 11pm-6am curfew once the new parallel runway opens in 2020. Without getting political in discussion, I hope this does not happen.

Hopefully not. Once a curfew comes in it'll be damned near impossible to get rid of.


User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 2909 posts, RR: 20
Reply 60, posted (8 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 14545 times:

Quoting ben175 (Reply 57):
Indonesia AirAsia is adding a seasonal 5th daily PER-DPS service between Jan 3 to March 24 2014

I forgot to ask, does anyone have an idea on how JQ is doing on the new Perth-Lombok flights?


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 61, posted (8 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 14386 times:
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FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting allrite (Reply 30):

I've always wondered why QF had previously a MX facility at both AVV and MEL and MEL closed before AVV. Why not previously just a combined one at MEL?


User currently offlinetravelhound From Australia, joined May 2008, 913 posts, RR: 12
Reply 62, posted (8 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 14353 times:

If they had built the proposed airport at Yatala (between Gold Coast and Brisbane) they could of had 24 hour flights. The proposal (at the time - 2003) was for two parallel runways with both take-offs and landings over Morton Bay. Very few residence live in Morton Bay.

The build cost at the time was somewhere around $3.5 billion.

If you have a look at airports we have been relatively short sighted in many ways!


User currently offlineqf2220 From Australia, joined Aug 2013, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 63, posted (8 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 14310 times:

Quoting travelhound (Reply 62):
If you have a look at airports we have been relatively short sighted in many ways!

That is the infrastructure problem in Australia over the past 20 years!


User currently offlineben175 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 674 posts, RR: 0
Reply 64, posted (8 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 14312 times:

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 60):
I forgot to ask, does anyone have an idea on how JQ is doing on the new Perth-Lombok flights?

A friend of mine works as Ground Staff at PER and said the load today was 135. Not too bad. I'd say this service will be sticking around, it will only get busier as the holidays grow closer.


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4847 posts, RR: 4
Reply 65, posted (8 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 14013 times:

Quoting qf2220 (Reply 56):
Quite a possibility. But are there enough frames in the fleet to let this happen? I guess they can delay a retirement of a 744 for a bit longer.

My personal opinion, QF will need to rethink the retirement of the remaining B744 frames. This is an opportunity they being served on a silver platter pretty much! Oneworld will dominate the Australiasia - South American market with TAM officially joining early next year.

Quoting qf2220 (Reply 56):
Im still not sure how to reconcile the AR A345 acquisition and this news, ie, is this just a temporary situation?

I'm baffled too considering they will be acquiring from memory 4 frames.

EK8413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 66, posted (8 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 14010 times:

Ben175
I don't think that a single-class A320 can make money on its longest sector with 75% loads.


User currently offlineben175 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 674 posts, RR: 0
Reply 67, posted (8 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 13989 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 66):

I don't think that a single-class A320 can make money on its longest sector with 75% loads.

I disagree, you have to remember that this service is still very new and JQ is stimulating demand for a market that many West Australians would never have heard of before. It's a definitely a contrast to PR's abysmal loads of 18-25 people when they attempted PER-DRW-MNL!

I think LOP will be sticking around. Or atleast I hope so.


User currently offlineqf2220 From Australia, joined Aug 2013, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 68, posted (8 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 13966 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 65):
My personal opinion, QF will need to rethink the retirement of the remaining B744 frames. This is an opportunity they being served on a silver platter pretty much! Oneworld will dominate the Australiasia - South American market with TAM officially joining early next year.

It doesnt seem to be hard for them to do this, i think they have done this a few times already as from memory (im sure there is a press release somewhere that will have the details) there should have soon been only the 9 frames in the fleet anyway. Worst comes to worse, they could go to the desert and get one of the frames there back (if the scrappers are not too efficient that is!)

Quoting EK413 (Reply 65):
I'm baffled too considering they will be acquiring from memory 4 frames.

In the other thread this is being dismissed as non factual. I did check the AR website and there was no announcement on these new aircraft either. Im still confused as to whether it is a goer or not that plan!


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24995 posts, RR: 85
Reply 69, posted (8 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 13923 times:
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Quoting ben175 (Reply 64):
A friend of mine works as Ground Staff at PER and said the load today was 135.
Quoting ben175 (Reply 67):
I disagree, you have to remember that this service is still very new and JQ is stimulating demand for a market that many West Australians would never have heard of before.

I think it's an encouraging number. It's still early November, scarcely high season yet, and word of mouth will have an effect (positive or negative as the case may be.)

It depends on the fares - and the costs.

In 1Q 2011, when oil was more than $120 a barrel, a US ULCC calculated that the BELF - Break Even Load Factor - on their A320's at about 80% - 144 seats? - on their system average fares. Any variation in fare changed the number.

Oil is lower now ($105 bbl) and Jetstar's other costs are likely higher, but even with their so-called low fares, they are still higher than almost any ULCC.

I hope it continues to improve, I love Lombok, far more so than Bali these days.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4847 posts, RR: 4
Reply 70, posted (8 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 13899 times:

Quoting qf2220 (Reply 68):
It doesnt seem to be hard for them to do this, i think they have done this a few times already as from memory (im sure there is a press release somewhere that will have the details) there should have soon been only the 9 frames in the fleet anyway. Worst comes to worse, they could go to the desert and get one of the frames there back (if the scrappers are not too efficient that is!)

Surely they've gone back to the drawing board otherwise there crazy not to with this announcement.
The remaining frames destined for the desert are 3 class VH-OJA, C, E, & I & 4 class VH-OJM, L & OEB (with exception of -OEB) The wise decision would be to reconfigure both -OJM & L in the new A380 interior & offer consistent product on SYD-SCL should QF bump up frequency.

Quoting qf2220 (Reply 68):
In the other thread this is being dismissed as non factual. I did check the AR website and there was no announcement on these new aircraft either. Im still confused as to whether it is a goer or not that plan!

Airbus A340 -541 492 9V-SGA Singapore Airlines was ferried all white on the 28th of October SIN-LDE for Aerolineas Argentinas ex F-WWTP.

EK8413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineqf2220 From Australia, joined Aug 2013, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 71, posted (8 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 13893 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 70):
The wise decision would be to reconfigure both -OJM & L in the new A380 interior & offer consistent product on SYD-SCL should QF bump up frequency.

Something tells me they need the -ERs on SCL, but upgrading M and L will let them sub the ERs from other routes onto SCL, so kind of moot point. Consistent product will be important.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 70):
Airbus A340 -541 492 9V-SGA Singapore Airlines was ferried all white on the 28th of October SIN-LDE for Aerolineas Argentinas ex F-WWTP.

What is your source for this? Id like to dig around and see what I can find. This is getting to me!


User currently offlineQFVHOQA From Australia, joined Mar 2012, 412 posts, RR: 0
Reply 72, posted (8 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 13868 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 70):
Surely they've gone back to the drawing board otherwise there crazy not to with this announcement.
The remaining frames destined for the desert are 3 class VH-OJA, C, E, & I & 4 class VH-OJM, L & OEB (with exception of -OEB) The wise decision would be to reconfigure both -OJM & L in the new A380 interior & offer consistent product on SYD-SCL should QF bump up frequency.
Quoting qf2220 (Reply 71):
Something tells me they need the -ERs on SCL, but upgrading M and L will let them sub the ERs from other routes onto SCL, so kind of moot point. Consistent product will be important.

Would QF really consider upgrading -OJM & -OJL? They are '91 builds so must have a short life left in them - hardly worthy or a refurb if they will only last a couple of years?

I'm not convinced that QF would bother returning to EZE. I hear EZE wasn't doing too badly, but the switch to SCL was to improve connectivity to the rest of South America. To serve both SCL & EZE at less than weekly is unlikely. QF would be better off increasing SCL to 6x weekly, since even on AR approx half of the pax weren't headed for Argentina.


User currently offlineqf2220 From Australia, joined Aug 2013, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 73, posted (8 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 13830 times:

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 72):

I agree, QF wont be back in EZE any time soon. As to the upgrades, depends on if there is enough slack in the fleet now, or if this decisison by AR changes the landscape for QF significantly enough. Id think QF wouldnt be that reactive to the market.


User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 2909 posts, RR: 20
Reply 74, posted (8 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 13839 times:

Quoting qf2220 (Reply 71):

Something tells me they need the -ERs on SCL, but upgrading M and L will let them sub the ERs from other routes onto SCL, so kind of moot point. Consistent product will be important.

I'm pretty sure the only route QF needs the ER's on is DFW. All the rest can be handled by a normal 744 depending on winds. (Where you would have a penalty)

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 72):

I'm not convinced that QF would bother returning to EZE. I hear EZE wasn't doing too badly, but the switch to SCL was to improve connectivity to the rest of South America

They switched to SCL because the Argentine Government wouldn't let QF interline or codeshare with LAN Argentina. So QF is doing a lot better feeding into LAN's hub now than they were into EZE.

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 72):
QF would be better off increasing SCL to 6x weekly

QF stated a while back that their ultimate goal was to have SCL as a daily flight. Having AR withdraw might provide enough impetus in terms of a traffic uptick to allow QF to make the 4th weekly permanent and look at a 5th weekly. It'll certainly mean that they'll have to consider retaining an 11th and/or 12th 744.


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4847 posts, RR: 4
Reply 75, posted (8 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 13827 times:

Quoting qf2220 (Reply 71):
Quoting EK413 (Reply 70):
The wise decision would be to reconfigure both -OJM & L in the new A380 interior & offer consistent product on SYD-SCL should QF bump up frequency.

Something tells me they need the -ERs on SCL, but upgrading M and L will let them sub the ERs from other routes onto SCL, so kind of moot point. Consistent product will be important.

Non -ERs have operated the SYD-SCL route once or twice before therefore I doubt there would be a problem.

Quoting qf2220 (Reply 71):
Quoting EK413 (Reply 70):
Airbus A340 -541 492 9V-SGA Singapore Airlines was ferried all white on the 28th of October SIN-LDE for Aerolineas Argentinas ex F-WWTP.

What is your source for this? Id like to dig around and see what I can find. This is getting to me!

This was the source but appears the details have been removed. Very interesting probably due to route being chopped AR won't be accepting delivery of the aircraft. I know the aircraft was delivered & there was a discussion in A.net

Source: http://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb.main?LC=nav4&page=2

A340-500 For Aerolineas Argentinas (by na Oct 28 2013 in Civil Aviation)

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 72):
Would QF really consider upgrading -OJM & -OJL? They are '91 builds so must have a short life left in them - hardly worthy or a refurb if they will only last a couple of years?

Do they really have much of a choice? I guess once the A333's are reconfigured from early next year the QF51 will be switched to A333?

EK8413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineqf2220 From Australia, joined Aug 2013, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 76, posted (8 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 13816 times:

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 74):
I'm pretty sure the only route QF needs the ER's on is DFW. All the rest can be handled by a normal 744 depending on winds. (Where you would have a penalty)

I have a feeling it has something to do with the southerly distance and length of flight. Though not really sure why it is different to JNB. Are there better alternates in the Southern Indian than the Southern Pacific?


User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2948 posts, RR: 2
Reply 77, posted (8 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 13829 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 70):
The wise decision would be to reconfigure both -OJM & L in the new A380 interior & offer consistent product on SYD-SCL should QF bump up frequency.

-OJL/M are both already 22 years old -- I don't see QF pumping $20m+ into refurbishing them for another couple of years service (not to mention the fact that the seats wouldn't be ready to be fitted for at least 12 months due to manufacture time).

The best thing they can realistically do at this point is bring the A380s forward 12-18 months. I'm sure Airbus would be more than happy to find the a couple of 2015 slots, which would relieve their short term fleet pressures. They can they use 789s to replace the final few 744s early next decade.

Of course, the financials probably don't stack up on anything right now. It's a lot of money to spend just to ease fleet pressures and add another couple of weekly flights in a young/relatively thin (in terms of corporate traffic) market. Too high risk for QF's current management.


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4847 posts, RR: 4
Reply 78, posted (8 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 13738 times:

Quoting qf002 (Reply 77):
-OJL/M are both already 22 years old -- I don't see QF pumping $20m+ into refurbishing them for another couple of years service (not to mention the fact that the seats wouldn't be ready to be fitted for at least 12 months due to manufacture time).

The only other viable solution is reconfigure the youngest in the fleet until a suitable replacement comes online.
I understand this is a new market for QF but they need to act & not sit around waiting until another carrier jumps in to fill the short fall of capacity.
Who knows probably LA will jump with spare A340's coming online with their 4th B788 not far off from being delivered.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 77):
Too high risk for QF's current management.

business is "risky business" & you need to take risks especially when a carrier drops out leaving the market wide open.

EK8413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8748 posts, RR: 5
Reply 79, posted (8 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 13692 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 78):
Who knows probably LA will jump with spare A340's coming online with their 4th B788 not far off from being delivered.

LAN's A343s are only deployed on the SCL-AKL-SYD route. LAN already has 5 787-8s in the fleet with 12 more 787s joining the fleet by 2015, (including 4 787-9s).


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4847 posts, RR: 4
Reply 80, posted (8 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 13623 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 79):
LAN's A343s are only deployed on the SCL-AKL-SYD route. LAN already has 5 787-8s in the fleet with 12 more 787s joining the fleet by 2015, (including 4 787-9s).

Wow, when did the 5th B788 sneak into the fleets???
How many A343's in their fleet as my understanding the A343's operating the SCL-MAD-FRA route would be redeployed on SCL-AKL-SYD if I'm not mistaken.

EK8413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8748 posts, RR: 5
Reply 81, posted (8 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 13617 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 80):
Wow, when did the 5th B788 sneak into the fleets???

October 10th.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 80):
How many A343's in their fleet as my understanding the A343's operating the SCL-MAD-FRA route would be redeployed on SCL-AKL-SYD if I'm not mistaken.

LAN hasn't deployed the A343s on the SCL-MAD-FRA route since last July. According to LATAM's fleet plan, 3 A343s will remain in the fleet until 2015.


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4847 posts, RR: 4
Reply 82, posted (8 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 13575 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 81):

Cheers thanks for the update. I take it SCL-MAD-FRA is B763 equipment until they have enough B788's?

EK8413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8748 posts, RR: 5
Reply 83, posted (8 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 13580 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 82):
I take it SCL-MAD-FRA is B763 equipment until they have enough B788's?

The 787-8 is deployed on the SCL-MAD-FRA route daily.


User currently offlineQFVHOQA From Australia, joined Mar 2012, 412 posts, RR: 0
Reply 84, posted (8 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 13490 times:

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 74):
QF stated a while back that their ultimate goal was to have SCL as a daily flight. Having AR withdraw might provide enough impetus in terms of a traffic uptick to allow QF to make the 4th weekly permanent and look at a 5th weekly. It'll certainly mean that they'll have to consider retaining an 11th and/or 12th 744.

The other option for QF would be for the 763 retirements to be postponed. The ex-JQ A332s would then free up the QF A332s in International config for international flying. These could take over A333 routes with lower Y loads, allowing either QF5 or QF51 to revert to A333.

Quoting qf2220 (Reply 76):
I have a feeling it has something to do with the southerly distance and length of flight. Though not really sure why it is different to JNB. Are there better alternates in the Southern Indian than the Southern Pacific?

JNB is closer than SCL so the extra range of the ER mustn't be needed - though SCL is closer than LAX and LAX sees non-ERs.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 78):
I understand this is a new market for QF but they need to act & not sit around waiting until another carrier jumps in to fill the short fall of capacity.
Who knows probably LA will jump with spare A340's coming online with their 4th B788 not far off from being delivered.

LA won't have any aircraft to operate another route to SYD until the 789 takes over from the A343. JJ could use a 77W from GRU (via SCL?) but not only would there be not enough traffic to fill it, they have better places to send them. QF can afford to sit on this for a little while - there doesn't seem to be a viable competitor appearing any time in the near future. The closest competition would be EK via DXB, but even SYD-DFW-GRU is shorter than via DXB.

On the NZ 789 thread there was some discussion about NZ beginning a South American route. LIM is seen as the best option for NZ as they won't have the right aircraft to reach GRU once the 744 leaves. So QF has some time before athe most likely competitor starts up service.


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4847 posts, RR: 4
Reply 85, posted (8 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 13430 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 83):
Quoting EK413 (Reply 82):
I take it SCL-MAD-FRA is B763 equipment until they have enough B788's?

The 787-8 is deployed on the SCL-MAD-FRA route daily.

I remember the plan was put on hold due the on going issues with the B788. Great to hear its gone daily B788's a clear sign the issues are bing ironed out.

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 84):
On the NZ 789 thread there was some discussion about NZ beginning a South American route. LIM is seen as the best option for NZ as they won't have the right aircraft to reach GRU once the 744 leaves. So QF has some time before athe most likely competitor starts up service.

I hope your right & QF don't miss out.

EK8413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4847 posts, RR: 4
Reply 86, posted (8 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 13439 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 83):
Quoting EK413 (Reply 82):
I take it SCL-MAD-FRA is B763 equipment until they have enough B788's?

The 787-8 is deployed on the SCL-MAD-FRA route daily.

I remember the plan was put on hold due the on going issues with the B788. Great to hear its gone daily B788's a clear sign the issues have been ironed out.

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 84):
On the NZ 789 thread there was some discussion about NZ beginning a South American route. LIM is seen as the best option for NZ as they won't have the right aircraft to reach GRU once the 744 leaves. So QF has some time before athe most likely competitor starts up service.

I hope your right & QF don't miss out.

EK8413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineQFVHOQA From Australia, joined Mar 2012, 412 posts, RR: 0
Reply 87, posted (8 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 13390 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 85):
I hope your right & QF don't miss out.

QF already has a head start with oneworld the strongest alliance in South America. T0 at LIM offers limited connectivity for NZ should they choose to fly there, but the major destinations are covered. NZ's plan looks to revolve around improving the performance of their Asian routes by replacing the 763s with 789s. After this point NZ may then expand to LIM with their 789, but I think for NZ, IAH would be a higher priority.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24995 posts, RR: 85
Reply 88, posted (8 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 13389 times:
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Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 87):
After this point NZ may then expand to LIM with their 789, but I think for NZ, IAH would be a higher priority.

I've never really understood the attraction of IAH for Air NZ. DEN, yes. but IAH doesn't thrill me.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5167 posts, RR: 4
Reply 89, posted (8 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 13317 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 75):
Very interesting probably due to route being chopped AR won't be accepting delivery of the aircraft

Sorry, but that's wrong. AR were never taking A345s, that was an unsubstantiated rumor that somehow gained more traction than it should have done. Therefore it is false to say that they aren't taking delivery because they are scrapping SYD. If anything they are scrapping SYD because they won't have any aircraft capable of flying the route, but as the route is loss making and it brings little value to the Argentine economy it is time for it to move on.

Quoting qf2220 (Reply 71):
Something tells me they need the -ERs on SCL

I'm 99% certain that a non-ER can make SCL without breaking a sweat. SYD-SCL is over 400mi shorter than SYD-LAX, and as it is a polar route I don't think the winds are as much as an issue on the flights from North America which fly west.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8748 posts, RR: 5
Reply 90, posted (8 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 13305 times:

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 87):
T0 at LIM offers limited connectivity for NZ should they choose to fly there, but the major destinations are covered.

Indeed. Should NZ launch AKL-LIM, AV will have to introduce new frequencies to the Southern Cone or alter the schedule of certain flights via LIM; unless NZ wants to have an a/c sitting at LIM for half a day. AV offers great connections to Central America and Northern South America via LIM. However, AV only offers one daily flight to GIG, GRU, MVD, POA and SCL via LIM. AV offers two daily flights to EZE and codeshares with H2 to SCL via LIM.


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4847 posts, RR: 4
Reply 91, posted (8 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 13215 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 89):
Sorry, but that's wrong. AR were never taking A345s, that was an unsubstantiated rumor that somehow gained more traction than it should have done.

The original discussion provided images of 9V-SGA being ferried and delivered.

'Aerolineas Argentinas to acquire all five former Singapore A340-500s to replace A340-200s_'.
So, AR apparently will acquire the complete SQ A340-500 fleet.

A340-500 For Aerolineas Argentinas (by na Oct 28 2013 in Civil Aviation)

The source of the information definitely got it wrong.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 89):
I'm 99% certain that a non-ER can make SCL without breaking a sweat. SYD-SCL is over 400mi shorter than SYD-LAX, and as it is a polar route I don't think the winds are as much as an issue on the flights from North America which fly west.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Mauricio Carvajal Arancibia



VH-OJU made an appearance so its definitely within the reach of non -ER B744's.

EK8413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineQFVHOQA From Australia, joined Mar 2012, 412 posts, RR: 0
Reply 92, posted (8 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 13111 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 88):
I've never really understood the attraction of IAH for Air NZ. DEN, yes. but IAH doesn't thrill me.

DEN would be better for Mountain & Midwestern markets, but IAH is better for the South and for Central America. DEN & SFO would also have a fair bit of overlap of connections I would think. Would the altitude of DEN be an issue for a 789 to AKL? It's almost as high as JNB but obviously not as hot.


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 93, posted (8 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 13100 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting EK413 (Reply 91):
VH-OJU made an appearance so its definitely within the reach of non -ER B744's.

How much weight penalty did the flight suffer?


User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 94, posted (8 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 13083 times:

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 84):
LIM is seen as the best option for NZ as they won't have the right aircraft to reach GRU once the 744 leaves

Lima is most certainly not the preferred Air NZ port in South America. The market is non-existent. They are more likely to fly long-haul services out of Charters Towers or Taree.

Air NZ is only interested in Sao Paulo, and if it lacks the vehicle and/or volumes it will simply stay out of South America.

[Edited 2013-11-11 00:21:55]

User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24995 posts, RR: 85
Reply 95, posted (8 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 13002 times:
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Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 92):
DEN would be better for Mountain & Midwestern markets, but IAH is better for the South and for Central America.

But there has to be a reason people want to go there, surely it isn't all about connecting traffic? I was always taught that a good hub is both a cross-roads and a desirable destination in its own right - and DEN is a great hub.

In the winter DEN gives access to some of the great skiing destinations, Aspen, Vail or Steamboat, among others, drive or fly. In the summer, those same mountains are enormously attractive, especially for many Kiwis, and the weather is pleasant. You couldn't pay me to spend summer in Houston. IAH seems - to me - to be a hangover from Continental's announcement of IAH-AKL, but United has changed IAH since the merger.

mariner

[Edited 2013-11-11 00:52:36]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlinetravelhound From Australia, joined May 2008, 913 posts, RR: 12
Reply 96, posted (8 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 12923 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 95):
....and a desirable destination in its own right...

.... for both business and leisure travelers.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24995 posts, RR: 85
Reply 97, posted (8 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 12884 times:
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Quoting travelhound (Reply 96):
.... for both business and leisure travelers.

Of course. There are reasons why DEN is the 5th busiest airport in the US:

http://skift.com/2013/04/04/atlantas...tops-list-of-busiest-u-s-airports/

2012 Rank Airport 2012 Enplaned Passengers 2011 Rank 2011 Enplaned Passengers Pct. Change 2011-2012
1 Atlanta 45.713 1 44.249 3.3
2 Chicago O’Hare 32.063 2 31.841 0.7
3 Los Angeles 31.293 3 30.505 2.6
4 Dallas/Ft. Worth 27.988 4 27.430 2.0
5 Denver 25.776 5 25.635 0.6
6 New York JFK 24.423 6 23.586 3.5
7 San Francisco 21.272 7 20.049 6.1
8 Charlotte 20.017 11 19.007 5.3
9 Las Vegas 19.774 9 19.668 0.5
10 Phoenix 19.537 8 19.727 -1.0


mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineFlyingsottsman From Australia, joined Oct 2010, 519 posts, RR: 0
Reply 98, posted (8 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 12858 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 88):
I've never really understood the attraction of IAH for Air NZ. DEN, yes. but IAH doesn't thrill me.

I think they would be doing what Qantas did with Dallas Fortworth fly to their partners home base. I should expect that maybe NZ is thinking the same with IAH thats UA's hub sice they merged with CO and probley gives NZ more options with its star partner in UA at IAH than say SFO.


User currently offlineFlyingsottsman From Australia, joined Oct 2010, 519 posts, RR: 0
Reply 99, posted (8 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 12841 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 95):
and a desirable destination in its own right - and DEN is a great hub.

Yes agree with you there Mariner, Denver is a beautiful city been there both summer and winter and a big well layed out airport to, but has DEN lost a bit of its importance with UA since the merger with CO.


User currently offlineFlyingsottsman From Australia, joined Oct 2010, 519 posts, RR: 0
Reply 100, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 12829 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 61):
I've always wondered why QF had previously a MX facility at both AVV and MEL and MEL closed before AVV. Why not previously just a combined one at MEL?

I think because the hangers at MEL were to small to take a 744. They could take anythink up to 767 size. I could be wrong thow.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24995 posts, RR: 85
Reply 101, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 12789 times:
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Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 99):
Yes agree with you there Mariner, Denver is a beautiful city been there both summer and winter and a big well layed out airport to, but has DEN lost a bit of its importance with UA since the merger with CO.


IAH has taken the big hit:

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-te...est-plan-3596827.php?cmpid=twitter

"United set for job cuts after council OKs Hobby expansion

Within hours, United Airlines told employees in a bulletin that, as a result of the council vote, it would be cutting planned operations at Bush Intercontinental by 10 percent and eliminating 1,300 Houston jobs, with the first buyouts, transfers or pink slips going out in the fall. It immediately canceled planned service to Auckland, New Zealand."


Plus they consolidated the Continental HQ in Houston to the United HQ in Chicago.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5167 posts, RR: 4
Reply 102, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 12792 times:

Mariner, I know that the closest we've ever come to blows was on the IAH/DFW debate, and I will not back down on this.

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 92):
DEN & SFO would also have a fair bit of overlap of connections I would think

Exactly, DEN is utterly redundant. The O&D market to Oceania is much smaller than SFO/LAX, and as a hub it adds very little that SFO doesn't (Bozeman or Dickenson anyone?)

Quoting mariner (Reply 95):
surely it isn't all about connecting traffic?

With any non-California flight ex-Australia it is all about connections. Other than the likes of NYC, ORD and BOS, the O&D market to any city not in Cali is negligible. BUT if you add all those markets together then you get enough traffic to support a route.

Quoting mariner (Reply 95):
United has changed IAH since the merger.

That's fine, as CO already have the network there to provide equivalent feed to AA at DFW. DFW is a bigger hub than IAH, but in terms of markets served that feed flights to Oceania, UA can hold their own.

I'm not saying it will happen, but if NZ launch a non-West Coast city it will be IAH. And yes I italicize that, and will stand by it.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineqf2220 From Australia, joined Aug 2013, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 103, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 12653 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 91):
VH-OJU made an appearance so its definitely within the reach of non -ER B744's.

No worries, I stand corrected! It must be more of a convention that the -ERs do the route rather than a requirement.


User currently offlineqf2220 From Australia, joined Aug 2013, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 104, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 12615 times:

This belongs in the EK/QF tieup threads of course (but these are now closed).

One thing that ive been wondering for a while now is what was the reason that BA stopped codesharing on QF flights after the EK deal? Was this
- a condition of the put in by EK (and a concession made by QF); or
- was it a BA decision to pull out of it alltogether.

I think for BA, using the QF codeshares still would have made sense, especially the domestic connections in Aus. Feel free to point me in the right direction if weve discussed this (and for QF would have made sense too given the ability to fill the A380s with BA flyers). I suspect the first option is what happened but havent really seen anything to support either way.

Thanks


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4847 posts, RR: 4
Reply 105, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 12509 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 93):
Quoting EK413 (Reply 91):
VH-OJU made an appearance so its definitely within the reach of non -ER B744's.

How much weight penalty did the flight suffer?

I do not remember reading anywhere regarding weight restrictions. QF have operated the non -ER on the SYD-DFW route too, however I believe the aircraft had to perform a tech stop on the way.

EK8413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24995 posts, RR: 85
Reply 106, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 12463 times:
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Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 102):
Mariner, I know that the closest we've ever come to blows was on the IAH/DFW debate, and I will not back down on this.

You don't have to back down - it's a personal preference.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 102):
Exactly, DEN is utterly redundant.
DEN is a wonderful place for Kiwis to go, which is - or should be - a good part of what the airline is about, a desirable destination in its own right.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 102):
I'm not saying it will happen, but if NZ launch a non-West Coast city it will be IAH. And yes I italicize that, and will stand by it.

You may be right. But why does everyone have to like it?

mariner

[Edited 2013-11-11 09:37:33]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5167 posts, RR: 4
Reply 107, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 12284 times:

Quoting qf2220 (Reply 104):
what was the reason that BA stopped codesharing on QF flights after the EK deal?

BA and QF do codeshare  

Both SYD/HKG-Australia and Australian domestic connections still have BA codes on them, and are bookable through the BA website.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineqf2220 From Australia, joined Aug 2013, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 108, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 12246 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 107):
BA and QF do codeshare

Both SYD/HKG-Australia and Australian domestic connections still have BA codes on them, and are bookable through the BA website.

I knew about the Domestic codes but the HKG I had overlooked, thanks for the info. However, the question is still out there around the DXB, SIN and BKK routes (even though for at least BKK I recall the the timings were not the greatest). I guess another part of the question is, why leave HKG codes when the others were dropped?

[Edited 2013-11-11 15:23:15]

User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5167 posts, RR: 4
Reply 109, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 12219 times:

Quoting qf2220 (Reply 108):
guess another part of the question is, why leave HKG codes when the others were dropped?

Sorry, I'm still confused. SIN and HKG both have BA codeshares. DXB was never included in the BA/QF JBA, so I'm not surprised it's included as BA and EK (i.e. QF) are mortal enemies on the LHR-DXB route. I do agree, however, that its interesting that BKK has been dropped, as even though the connections were atrocious I imagine that there must be some people who would chose to stopover in Bangkok. Other than SYD-SIN (where BA want you to fly on their own metal), BKK is the only cut, AFAIK.

SIN:

MEL-SIN BA7403
SIN-MEL BA7402

BNE-SIN BA7407
SIN-BNE BA7406

PER-SIN BA7405
SIN-PER BA7404

HKG:

MEL-HKG BA7411
HKG-MEL BA7410

BNE-HKG BA7409
HKG-BNE BA7408



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineDeltaB717 From Australia, joined Jun 2012, 382 posts, RR: 0
Reply 110, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 12220 times:
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Quoting EK413 (Reply 91):
The original discussion provided images of 9V-SGA being ferried and delivered.

'Aerolineas Argentinas to acquire all five former Singapore A340-500s to replace A340-200s_'.
So, AR apparently will acquire the complete SQ A340-500 fleet.

A340-500 For Aerolineas Argentinas (by na Oct 28 2013 in Civil Aviation)

The source of the information definitely got it wrong.

That thread has photos of 9V-SGA being ferried all-white to LDE. There was nothing in that thread to substantiate that the aircraft had been acquired by, or delivered to, AR. There was never an official press release. And as the linked thread mentions the sources have all removed this.

AR has no need for A345s now that SYD has been cancelled. There's nothing in its network that can't be handled by A330s.


User currently offlineQFVHOQA From Australia, joined Mar 2012, 412 posts, RR: 0
Reply 111, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 12167 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 94):
Lima is most certainly not the preferred Air NZ port in South America. The market is non-existent. They are more likely to fly long-haul services out of Charters Towers or Taree.

Air NZ is only interested in Sao Paulo, and if it lacks the vehicle and/or volumes it will simply stay out of South America.

If you read the rest of my post you would have seen that I was referring to the discussion in the NZ 789 thread. I didn't claim that this was NZ's preferred destination.

Quoting mariner (Reply 95):
But there has to be a reason people want to go there, surely it isn't all about connecting traffic? I was always taught that a good hub is both a cross-roads and a desirable destination in its own right - and DEN is a great hub.

That's true, hence the death of hubs like STL. However IAH can support a PEK flight, which is also likely also about the connections offered. Until recently, DEN couldn't support a flight to Asia. So a flight to AKL seems remote.

Quoting qf2220 (Reply 104):
I think for BA, using the QF codeshares still would have made sense, especially the domestic connections in Aus.

I think BA offers a codeshare on QF metal when there is no CX alternative, like to CBR or HBA. Many of the ex-
SIN QF flights don't offer well timed connections to the ex-LHR BA flights. CX has more frequency to Australia ex-HKG so connections can be shorter (though flight time can be longer to PER).


User currently offlineqf2220 From Australia, joined Aug 2013, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 112, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 12096 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 109):

Ok, so I have not been at all as dilligent on flight searches as I should have been, apologies. Changes my next question somewhat. Do you think it would make sense though for BA to maintain more cooperation on the routes (and mainly LHR-DXB-SYD/MEL). Ie, add codes to at least LHR-DXB-MEL (and maybe SYD). Adds to their virtual network, though of course probably they dont need it as it looks like they run virtual hubs out of SIN and HKG with those flights above and some others ive found (SIN-PER, HKG-ADL). Although, these also look like they will code with QF from SIN before CX from HKG and only the latter when there is no QF flight from SIN. I might shut down my question here! (and i meant excluding, not especially in my original post)

Quoting DeltaB717 (Reply 110):

Great example of a story running away with itself!

[Edited 2013-11-11 16:37:42]

User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5167 posts, RR: 4
Reply 113, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 12035 times:

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 111):
I think BA offers a codeshare on QF metal when there is no CX alternative

That is NOT true. Go to the BA website and try booking a flight from BNE or MEL to LHR. You will be offered your choice of CX and QF flights, most likely at the same price. The CX codeshares are in addition to the QF ones, and ultimately the consumer can decide whether they want to fly QF or CX. And what's more, the agreement between CX and BA is only a codeshare agreement, no JBA, no revenue coordination, nothing.

Quoting qf2220 (Reply 112):
apologies

No problem  
Quoting qf2220 (Reply 112):
Do you think it would make sense though for BA to maintain more cooperation on the routes

Now that's an interesting question. My answer would be on the one hand yes (especially to MEL) as the QF/CX codeshares don't time particularly well for BA's LHR flights (making the BA options inferior IMHO), but at the same time remember that BA won't earn a cent of revenue on that flight whereas putting their passengers on their own metal to SIN/HKG means that they get their majority of the ticket revenue.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5167 posts, RR: 4
Reply 114, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 12009 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 106):
why does everyone have to like it?

I didn't say that you had to like it.

Quoting mariner (Reply 106):
DEN is a wonderful place

I'm sure it is, but that doesn't mean that it would necessarily be a profitable route. And even if it broke-even, the opportunity cost of not using that asset on a different route (i.e IAH) means that it is unlikely to happen IMHO.

Quoting mariner (Reply 106):
a good part of what the airline is about

I thought "a good part of what the airline is about" was to make money for its shareholders? While majority owned by the Crown, NZ is a profit maximising corporation, not a vehicle to provide government services to Kiwi taxpayers.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4847 posts, RR: 4
Reply 115, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 11966 times:

Quoting DeltaB717 (Reply 110):
That thread has photos of 9V-SGA being ferried all-white to LDE. There was nothing in that thread to substantiate that the aircraft had been acquired by, or delivered to, AR. There was never an official press release. And as the linked thread mentions the sources have all removed this.

AR has no need for A345s now that SYD has been cancelled. There's nothing in its network that can't be handled by A330s.

I'm well aware of this and thanks for pointing it out to me. When I checked the source the details had been removed & this was roughly around the time AR announced EZE-SYD will be dropped.

EK8413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineqf2220 From Australia, joined Aug 2013, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 116, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 11931 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 113):
Now that's an interesting question. My answer would be on the one hand yes (especially to MEL) as the QF/CX codeshares don't time particularly well for BA's LHR flights (making the BA options inferior IMHO), but at the same time remember that BA won't earn a cent of revenue on that flight whereas putting their passengers on their own metal to SIN/HKG means that they get their majority of the ticket revenue.

They would get the codeshare commission and (depending on the basis between the price they sell it for and the amount they have to pay QF, they could still make a profit off the route, no?

On your first point, perhaps it is yet more incentive to push people on the LHR-SYD route and then they take domestic (at least for ADL, MEL, CBR, BNE etc - doesnt really work elsewhere).


User currently offlineMikey86 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 117, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 11502 times:

Hey all,

Just noticed that VA International may be having issues. They cancelled the VA8 LAX-BNE on 13NOV.

Has a 777 gone tech?

Cheers,

Mike



mikey86 - Greenslopes, Queensland
User currently offlineQF744ER From Australia, joined Jun 2004, 304 posts, RR: 0
Reply 118, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 11374 times:

QF 77/78 PER-SIN has reverted back to an Intl A332 since the 1st November.

Since the QF/EK tie up these flights have been struggling load wise.


User currently offlineben175 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 674 posts, RR: 0
Reply 119, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 11249 times:

Quoting QF744ER (Reply 118):
QF 77/78 PER-SIN has reverted back to an Intl A332 since the 1st November.

Not surprising, seeing as many people would take 3K on this sector rather than fork out extra cash for a 5 hour flight. It's a different story if you're flying to Europe, but that isn't the case anymore.

However saying this, it will be a very dark day if QF axe PER-SIN altogether.


User currently offlineqf2220 From Australia, joined Aug 2013, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 120, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 11216 times:

Quoting ben175 (Reply 119):

Could a short hop tag flight from SIN to a place (say Vietnam or Manila, proabably no further though) that connects with the SYD/MEL/BNE arrivals help it out? What other places around SIN would Perth business pax like to go to? I have no idea how the financials might work for this, would be interesting to see that aspect.


User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5167 posts, RR: 4
Reply 121, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 11140 times:

Quoting qf2220 (Reply 120):
What other places around SIN would Perth business pax like to go to?

Hong Kong I imagine. After that, I imagine a city in PRC must be up there?

Quoting ben175 (Reply 119):
it will be a very dark day if QF axe PER-SIN altogether

I'll doubt that it will go away altogether, but I wouldn't fall over with shock if it wound up being operated by a 737. If they prioritised the route to be operated by a Sky Interior frame then they could provide a comparable product, at least in Y.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlinetullamarine From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1510 posts, RR: 0
Reply 122, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 11074 times:

Quoting ben175 (Reply 119):
However saying this, it will be a very dark day if QF axe PER-SIN altogether.

No wonder SQ are almost seen as a defacto Australian carrier. From cities other than MEL and SYD, it offers better connections than QF. I know there are many reasons why it has come to this but it is sad.



717,721/2,732/3/4/5/7/8/9,742/3/4,752/3,762/3,772,W,A310,320,321,332,333,388,DC9,DC10,F28,F100,142,143,E90,CR2,D82/3/4,S
User currently offlineQF744ER From Australia, joined Jun 2004, 304 posts, RR: 0
Reply 123, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 10984 times:

QF used to operate B738's PER-DPS-SIN, there are photos in the DB.

After my post last night I see -QPJ is down to operate QF77 to SIN today.


User currently offlineQFVHOQA From Australia, joined Mar 2012, 412 posts, RR: 0
Reply 124, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 10937 times:

Quoting qf2220 (Reply 120):
Could a short hop tag flight from SIN to a place (say Vietnam or Manila, proabably no further though) that connects with the SYD/MEL/BNE arrivals help it out? What other places around SIN would Perth business pax like to go to? I have no idea how the financials might work for this, would be interesting to see that aspect.

Now that QF has earlier arrivals into SIN from AU, they may be able to re-start an India flight with better timings than the old SIN-BOM offered. A theoretical flight could be 1730SIN 2030BOM, though the return to SIN for flights back to AU would offer long connections unless it overnighted in BOM. Maybe a BOM0800 SIN1600 would then connect with SIN-PER/MEL/SYD/BNE. I don't see QF doing this as they are short on A330s at the moment.

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 122):
No wonder SQ are almost seen as a defacto Australian carrier. From cities other than MEL and SYD, it offers better connections than QF. I know there are many reasons why it has come to this but it is sad.

SQ may be losing this crown, as I believe EK now carry more pax ex-AU than SQ?


User currently offlineqf2220 From Australia, joined Aug 2013, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 125, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 10917 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 121):
Hong Kong I imagine. After that, I imagine a city in PRC must be up there?

In the absence of the reinstatement of the direct flight, could be interesting as a tag on.

A theoretical schedule could be:

PER-SIN 0805 - 1325 (advances current flight by 1 hour)
SIN-HKG 1525 - 1720 (based on SQ flight times)
HKG-SIN 1920 - 2310 (based on SQ flight times)
SIN-PER 0110 - 0635

They could also link ADL back to SIN to feed into the same HKG flight. If the turnarounds could be cut to 1.5hrs, this would improve the timings. IIRC, QF has traffic rights SIN-HKG too that they could use. Though it is a rather late return to PER from SIN, and does run very close to the EK codeshare service that departs SIN for PER at 0220, but nice pipe dream if nothing else!

[Edited 2013-11-12 16:53:16]

User currently offlineqf2220 From Australia, joined Aug 2013, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 126, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 10919 times:

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 124):
. A theoretical flight could be 1730SIN 2030BOM, though the return to SIN for flights back to AU would offer long connections unless it overnighted in BOM.

I like the idea. With the EK tieup, who knows, QF could do an overnight flight for EK (like VA does for EY to KUL(?))

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 124):
I don't see QF doing this as they are short on A330s at the moment.

There are a few A380 options they may or may not need!


User currently offlinevhebb From Australia, joined Apr 2011, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 127, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 10935 times:

PER-SIN-PER will be operated with a mix of A333/A332s. Mainly because all 4 intl A332s pass through PER on a daily basis making rotations easier.

You can't compare SQ and QF. All QF flights are dedicated SIN flights while SQ operate flights for connections onwards to Europe etc.


User currently offlineQFVHOQA From Australia, joined Mar 2012, 412 posts, RR: 0
Reply 128, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 10928 times:

Quoting qf2220 (Reply 125):
PER-SIN 0805 - 1325 (advances current flight by 1 hour)
SIN-HKG 1525 - 1720 (based on SQ flight times)
HKG-SIN 1920 - 2310 (based on SQ flight times)
SIN-PER 0110 - 0635

Your option works with timings, as it looks like the aircraft that operates QF78 then overnights in PER before leaving for MEL/SYD early the next morning.

Quoting qf2220 (Reply 126):
I like the idea. With the EK tieup, who knows, QF could do an overnight flight for EK (like VA does for EY to KUL(?))

With EK reaching its capacity limits in India, I wonder if QF has rights between India and DXB? They could theoretically operate extra flights for EK, like 9W will be doing for EY and AB currently do.

Quoting qf2220 (Reply 126):
There are a few A380 options they may or may not need!

I see the need for more A380s but not sure all 8 will be necessary QF starts more flights to DXB.


User currently offlineJQflightie From Australia, joined Mar 2009, 945 posts, RR: 1
Reply 129, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 10921 times:

Quoting qf2220 (Reply 125):
In the absence of a direct flight, could be interesting.A theoretical schedule could be:PER-SIN 0805 - 1325 (advances current flight by 1 hour)SIN-HKG 1525 - 1720 (based on SQ flight times)HKG-SIN 1920 - 2310 (based on SQ flight times)SIN-PER 0110 - 0635They could also link ADL back to SIN to feed into the same HKG flight. If the turnarounds could be cut to 1.5hrs, this would improve the timings. IIRC, QF has traffic rights SIN-HKG too that they could use. Though it is a rather late return to PER from SIN, and does run very close to the EK codeshare service that departs SIN for PER at 0220, but nice pipe dream if nothing else!

I believe we used to fly a B767 on the SIN-HKG-SIN sector, up until quiet recent times.
Although I like the idea of a PER-SIN-HKG, it wouldn't work when you could do PER-MEL-HKG   



Next Trip: PER-DPS-LOP-CGK-KUL-PVG-LHR, LCY-MAD-VLC, BCN-LYS-TLS-IST-JED-KUL-SGN-CAN-MEL
User currently offlineTruemanQLD From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 1511 posts, RR: 0
Reply 130, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 10903 times:

Quoting Mikey86 (Reply 117):

The arriving flight on Sunday was delayed significantly (~14 hours) so the departing flight to LAX didn't leave BNE until 2am (rather than 11am the day before). I then noticed a 77W sitting on the tarmac all morning on Tuesday when it normally wouldnt...


User currently offlineqf2220 From Australia, joined Aug 2013, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 131, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 10893 times:

Quoting JQflightie (Reply 129):
I believe we used to fly a B767 on the SIN-HKG-SIN sector, up until quiet recent times.

When was the last flight on this route? I have read that it was with a 767 and that BKK was also part of a triangle route?

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 128):
Your option works with timings, as it looks like the aircraft that operates QF78 then overnights in PER before leaving for MEL/SYD early the next morning.

I think it would use 1x A330 very well. That circuit would keep one of them on flight after turn without any real down time. Of course, I have no idea what the scheduling requirements would be for this (ie daily maintenance etc etc)

For JQflightie, im assuming you might know given you name, could one crew operate the PER-SIN-HKG route (and have a rest in SIN)?


User currently offlineQFVHOQA From Australia, joined Mar 2012, 412 posts, RR: 0
Reply 132, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10898 times:

Quoting JQflightie (Reply 129):
I believe we used to fly a B767 on the SIN-HKG-SIN sector, up until quiet recent times.
Although I like the idea of a PER-SIN-HKG, it wouldn't work when you could do PER-MEL-HKG

According to a thread from last year 1980s/early 90s Qantas 767 Routes , QF used to fly:

Quote:
QF77/78 PER-SIN-HKG-BKK-HKG-SIN-PER

QF71/72 PER-BKK-PER

Not sure when it ended, possibly when SARS slashed a lot of traffic to HKG.


User currently offlineqf2220 From Australia, joined Aug 2013, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 133, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10851 times:

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 132):

Exact thread i was looking for, thanks!


User currently offlinetullamarine From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1510 posts, RR: 0
Reply 134, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10835 times:

Quoting qf2220 (Reply 125):
A theoretical schedule could be:

PER-SIN 0805 - 1325 (advances current flight by 1 hour)
SIN-HKG 1525 - 1720 (based on SQ flight times)
HKG-SIN 1920 - 2310 (based on SQ flight times)
SIN-PER 0110 - 0635

Hard to see this being particularly attractive given you can fly direct to HKG with CX at this time and do it 2 hours quicker. If QF want to attract premium pax between PER and HKG, it can only be a direct service.

SIN-HKG is an extremely competitive sector with SQ and CX employing A380s and 77Ws on the route. In addition Tiger and Jetstar compete at the cheap end of the market. Given QF's cost structures etc, it is unlikely it can profitably enter this market even if it is allowed to.



717,721/2,732/3/4/5/7/8/9,742/3/4,752/3,762/3,772,W,A310,320,321,332,333,388,DC9,DC10,F28,F100,142,143,E90,CR2,D82/3/4,S
User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5606 posts, RR: 6
Reply 135, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10827 times:

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 128):
With EK reaching its capacity limits in India, I wonder if QF has rights between India and DXB?

They most certainly do. However I'm not sure of the frequencies allowable. It's also possible that the flights have to go on to Europe, not sure about that.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineqf2220 From Australia, joined Aug 2013, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 136, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10818 times:

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 134):

Fully agree with your points, though as a purely theoretical excercise it is interesting to consider.

If QF was able to change (ie lower) its FF earn rates with CX, you might tempt the FF base onto this flight, in addition to those Perth loyalists who do want to fly QF but dont have the options. Also, this flight would be mainly for connections to HKG and not so much for SIN/HKG O&D I think so wouldnt neccesarily be in direct competition with the SQ and CX flights.

Of course it is all about the numbers and as we dont see it now it is likely that they dont stack up.


User currently offlineJQflightie From Australia, joined Mar 2009, 945 posts, RR: 1
Reply 137, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10819 times:

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 132):

           

I forgot about the BKK tag, I think it was know as 'Around the rice bowl'
And to tell you the truth, I am also under the impression that AO used to operate a route similar, perhaps QF passed it to AO?? Any Info Anetters?



Next Trip: PER-DPS-LOP-CGK-KUL-PVG-LHR, LCY-MAD-VLC, BCN-LYS-TLS-IST-JED-KUL-SGN-CAN-MEL
User currently offlineJQflightie From Australia, joined Mar 2009, 945 posts, RR: 1
Reply 138, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 10770 times:

Quoting JQflightie (Reply 137):
I am also under the impression that AO used to operate a route similar, perhaps QF passed it to AO?? Any Info Anetters?

After some investigating, AO had DPS-SIN-BKI



Next Trip: PER-DPS-LOP-CGK-KUL-PVG-LHR, LCY-MAD-VLC, BCN-LYS-TLS-IST-JED-KUL-SGN-CAN-MEL
User currently offlineQFVHOQA From Australia, joined Mar 2012, 412 posts, RR: 0
Reply 139, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 10731 times:

Quoting qf2220 (Reply 136):
If QF was able to change (ie lower) its FF earn rates with CX, you might tempt the FF base onto this flight, in addition to those Perth loyalists who do want to fly QF but dont have the options. Also, this flight would be mainly for connections to HKG and not so much for SIN/HKG O&D I think so wouldnt neccesarily be in direct competition with the SQ and CX flights.

QF already has a poor earn on some CX flights, with discount Y often earning no points. Not as poor as the earn for MH or QR though.

A hypothetical QF SIN-HKG flight would be unlikely to pick up much high yield traffic that didn't also involve travel to/from PER. Fifth-freedom flights usually have to offer discounted fares in comparison with the dominant players on the route - see RJ BKK-HKG or KU FCO-CDG.


User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2901 posts, RR: 0
Reply 140, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 10543 times:

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 122):
No wonder SQ are almost seen as a defacto Australian carrier. From cities other than MEL and SYD, it offers better connections than QF. I know there are many reasons why it has come to this but it is sad.

Given that SQ are more centrally located, and QF operate in a location that offers none of these benefits, trying to compare the situation of both carriers is next to useless.

QF has a higher cost base also, which combined with operational limitations, make it very hard work.


User currently offlineaerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2683 posts, RR: 4
Reply 141, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 10381 times:

Quoting BenSandilands (Reply 39):
Speaking as a journalist I would like to see a link to any commentary since the turn of the century calling for Qantas to spread the flag all over the world.

Australian Aviation (the magazine) used to advocate A340s for continental Europe flights for QF all the time in the late 1990s and early 2000s. Admittedly, it made sense at the time.


User currently offlineqf2220 From Australia, joined Aug 2013, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 142, posted (8 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 10045 times:

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 122):
No wonder SQ are almost seen as a defacto Australian carrier.

How can it be without a domestic network.....


User currently offlineAeroplaneFreak From Australia, joined Sep 2006, 539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 143, posted (8 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 10072 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Here is my trip report from Jetstar's inaugural Boeing 787 Dreamliner service...

http://yssyforum.net/board/showthread.php?t=9612


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4847 posts, RR: 4
Reply 144, posted (8 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 10017 times:

Quoting AeroplaneFreak (Reply 143):

Great report. Was there any mention of those Premuim Y/C seats the crew mentioned at the open day in SYD?

EK8413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineAyostoLeon From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 145, posted (8 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 9998 times:

Quoting gemuser (Reply 135):

The treaty between India and Australia specifies for the designated airlines of Australia points in India, Intermediate Points, Points in Australia and Beyond Points as "Any" with the qualification, "The designated airlines of each Party may at their option omit points on any of the above routes provided that, with the exception of all-cargo services, the services commence or terminate in the territory in which the airline concerned has its principal place of business."

Such says the bilateral agreement entered into force on 20 November 2006. The treaty was last updated in April 2012 but unhelpfully the DFAT web site does not provide details of what the changes were or whether they are actually in force so it remains clear as mud.


User currently offlinetullamarine From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1510 posts, RR: 0
Reply 146, posted (8 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 9863 times:

Quoting qf2220 (Reply 142):
How can it be without a domestic network.....

Qantas was considered the Australian carrier in the 60's, '70s and '80s and it had no domestic network.



717,721/2,732/3/4/5/7/8/9,742/3/4,752/3,762/3,772,W,A310,320,321,332,333,388,DC9,DC10,F28,F100,142,143,E90,CR2,D82/3/4,S
User currently offlineQFVHOQA From Australia, joined Mar 2012, 412 posts, RR: 0
Reply 147, posted (8 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 9728 times:

Quoting qf2220 (Reply 142):
How can it be without a domestic network.....

It doesn't need one - previously it had TT, and now has VA.

Quoting AyostoLeon (Reply 145):
The treaty between India and Australia specifies for the designated airlines of Australia points in India, Intermediate Points, Points in Australia and Beyond Points as "Any" with the qualification, "The designated airlines of each Party may at their option omit points on any of the above routes provided that, with the exception of all-cargo services, the services commence or terminate in the territory in which the airline concerned has its principal place of business."

That is very interesting. Much of the focus of the QF/EK agreement was that EK could use QF to fly to EK-restricted EU destinations. There seems to be additional value to EK in the India-DXB opportunities. They have been able to do this without investing in loss-making carriers like EY has done with AB/9W.


User currently offlineDeltaB717 From Australia, joined Jun 2012, 382 posts, RR: 0
Reply 148, posted (8 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 9720 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting qf2220 (Reply 142):
How can it be without a domestic network.....

Extensive codesharing with VA...


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24995 posts, RR: 85
Reply 149, posted (8 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 9702 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 114):
I thought "a good part of what the airline is about" was to make money for its shareholders? While majority owned by the Crown, NZ is a profit maximising corporation, not a vehicle to provide government services to Kiwi taxpayers.


I have no idea what you mean by that last sentence. If the core market isn't Kiwis then I don't know what the airline is.

I recall that a number people here (I'm not including you in that number) dumped on the airline's decision to fly AKL-DPS, as a potentially unprofitable route, but it seems to be doing well. It is somewhere Kiwis want to go.

I'm really not sure why thus has turned into such an issue - a.net is made up of differing opinions.. I made a fairly casual content about preferring DEN to IAH - i still do and will continue to do so.

Very clearly, my very of the airline - and its core market - is different from yours. It doesn't mean I expect Air NZ to fly to DEN - or IAH. Neither DEN - nor IAH - fit into the CEO's stated goal of (true) Pacific Rim and there are a number of other places I would prefer to see the airline fly first.

  

mariner

[Edited 2013-11-13 16:26:31]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineqf2220 From Australia, joined Aug 2013, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 150, posted (8 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 9677 times:

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 146):
Qantas was considered the Australian carrier in the 60's, '70s and '80s and it had no domestic network.

The Australian carrier, or an Australian carrier (with Anset and TAA)

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 147):
It doesn't need one - previously it had TT, and now has VA.
Quoting DeltaB717 (Reply 148):
Extensive codesharing with VA...

With respect, QF is not a middle east carrier because it has extensive codesharing with EK, nor is it a North American carrier because of its extensive codeshares with AA.


User currently offlineallrite From Australia, joined Aug 2007, 1994 posts, RR: 4
Reply 151, posted (8 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 9640 times:

Qantas has unveiled an Ashes cricket themed 737. Sorry, the photo is a bit large to share here without making a copy of it.


Applying insanity to normality
User currently offlineQFVHOQA From Australia, joined Mar 2012, 412 posts, RR: 0
Reply 152, posted (8 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 9694 times:

Quoting qf2220 (Reply 150):
With respect, QF is not a middle east carrier because it has extensive codesharing with EK, nor is it a North American carrier because of its extensive codeshares with AA.

True, but in those cases QF doesn't have an equity investment in EK or AA. SQ (via Temasek) has a common owner with TT, and has a direct stake in VA. SQ also now part owns TT via its stake in VA.


User currently offlineallrite From Australia, joined Aug 2007, 1994 posts, RR: 4
Reply 153, posted (8 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 9701 times:

Virgin Australia is raising $350m in capital.

From the article:

Quote:
The raising will be underwritten by the airline’s three major shareholders – Air New Zealand, Etihad and Singapore – which is almost certain to result in them increasing their stakes further.

Virgin will also talk to the big three airline shareholder about them gaining seats on its board.
Australia’s second-largest airline will issue almost 925 million shares at 38 cents a piece, which it argues will significantly strengthen its balance sheet.

The stock was placed in a trading halt this morning ahead of the rights issue. Existing shareholders will be able to buy five new shares for every existing 14 Virgin shares they hold.



Applying insanity to normality
User currently offlineqf2220 From Australia, joined Aug 2013, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 154, posted (8 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 9709 times:

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 152):
True, but in those cases QF doesn't have an equity investment in EK or AA. SQ (via Temasek) has a common owner with TT, and has a direct stake in VA. SQ also now part owns TT via its stake in VA.

I would put it that this makes VA more Singaporean than SQ Australian


User currently offlineQFVHOQA From Australia, joined Mar 2012, 412 posts, RR: 0
Reply 155, posted (8 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 9675 times:

Quoting qf2220 (Reply 154):
I would put it that this makes VA more Singaporean than SQ Australian

It certainly does.

But I don't think the original intent was to describe SQ as an Australian-owned carrier, rather that SQ is a de facto Australian carrier due to the number of Australian pax SQ carries out of Australia.


User currently offlinetullamarine From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1510 posts, RR: 0
Reply 156, posted (8 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 9601 times:

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 155):
But I don't think the original intent was to describe SQ as an Australian-owned carrier, rather that SQ is a de facto Australian carrier due to the number of Australian pax SQ carries out of Australia

Correct. What I meant in my original statement was that Australians, particularly those outside of Melbourne and Sydney, are just as likely to look to SQ for their carriage as they were QF and in many cases, SQ provides the superior offering insofar as range of times etc is concerned. At no time did I infer that SQ was holding itself out to be Australian.

What I was trying to point out was how the reduction in QF's international services had changed the way the airline is viewed. I pointed out that there was a range of reasons for this, many of which have been canvassed on a.net many times. Some of these are geographic, some of these are cost based and some of these relate to bad management decisions over a number of years.



717,721/2,732/3/4/5/7/8/9,742/3/4,752/3,762/3,772,W,A310,320,321,332,333,388,DC9,DC10,F28,F100,142,143,E90,CR2,D82/3/4,S
User currently offlineeaglefarm4 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 425 posts, RR: 1
Reply 157, posted (8 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 9466 times: