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Airline Tells Man He's 'too Fat To Fly'  
User currently offlinetioloko100 From Australia, joined Jul 2012, 134 posts, RR: 0
Posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 22098 times:
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Come on guys! there are many ways you can professionally manage the situation instead of dropping the F word to an airline passenger, when flying an airline an staying in a hotel customers expect to be treated with respect not with rude responses.

http://flyingactive.com/content/221-...ne-tells-man-he-s-too-fat-fly.html

[Edited 2013-11-07 22:46:42]

159 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinedrew777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2013, 80 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 22073 times:

There is no quotation in the article where British Airways called the customer fat. That appears to be paraphrasing by The West Australia newspaper.

User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3392 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 22048 times:

The article is paraphrasing. I highly doubt any airline employee or vendor used the word "fat" in this situation.

User currently offlinetioloko100 From Australia, joined Jul 2012, 134 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 22045 times:
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Quoting OB1504 (Reply 2):
I highly doubt any airline employee or vendor used the word "fat" in this situation.

I thought so in the beginning but nothing is impossible


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13649 posts, RR: 62
Reply 4, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 21948 times:
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Quoting tioloko100 (Thread starter):
Common guys!

I think you mean "Come on" and not common.

Quoting tioloko100 (Thread starter):
there are many ways you can professionally manage the situation

Why do you automatically assume this wasn't handled professionally? The light-on-details article says BA denied boarding due to safety; as a pilot I'd imagine you can understand that.

Quoting tioloko100 (Thread starter):
dropping the F word to an airline passenger

Where does it say anyone said "f**k" to him?  

Seriously though, at no point in the article is there mention of the word "fat" allegedly said to the customer.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlinetioloko100 From Australia, joined Jul 2012, 134 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 21924 times:
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Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 4):
Where does it say anyone said "f**k" to him?

F**K is not the only F word ,F*T is also an F word.


User currently offlineQ From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 243 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 21752 times:

What you need to do is? Bring Learjet medical operation service. Airline is stupid or doing wrong.

Q


User currently offlineDoona From Sweden, joined Feb 2005, 3771 posts, RR: 13
Reply 7, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 21730 times:

Quoting tioloko100 (Reply 5):
F**K is not the only F word ,F*T is also an F word.

Are we now not using any words beginning with "F"? I thought the word game threads were supposed to be in non-av...

Excuse me, I need to go and be f*bulous.

Cheers
Mats



Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
User currently offlineSpeedbird128 From Pitcairn Islands, joined Oct 2003, 1648 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 21648 times:

Quoting Doona (Reply 7):

F*ne. If that's your desire LOL!

Quoting tioloko100 (Thread starter):
dropping the F word

Having read the article I believe this is the newspaper using their sensationalist tactics again by paraphrasing. In other words, they are putting statements in the mouths of people that never said them.

I do agree, however, that having flown over on BA and not being allowed on for the return trip is interesting. Did he put on significant weight while being in the USA? Or did anything else change that caused BA to have to turn him down? There is often more to a reported story than just the paraphrased bits.



A306, A313, A319, A320, A321, A332, A343, A345, A346 A388, AC90, B06, B722, B732, B733, B735, B738, B744, B762, B772, B7
User currently offlinetype-rated From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 21605 times:

The article does say that he needs oxygen full time and it appears that he is wheel chair bound too. Anyone who needs oxygen knows what a pain it is to order oxygen from an airline before you fly. And it's $$$$ too.

I think BA is just trying to limit their liability and not have this guy die on one of their flights.

If this family doesn't have any money, how can they take a train to NY and then get on the QM 2? That takes major bucks to do!


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13649 posts, RR: 62
Reply 10, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 21551 times:
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Quoting tioloko100 (Reply 5):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 4):Where does it say anyone said "f**k" to him?
F**K is not the only F word ,F*T is also an F word.

So when I discuss the fat content of a particular food, I need to refer to it as the "F-word content" so as to not offend?

Seriously?



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9536 posts, RR: 31
Reply 11, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 21403 times:

shipping him as freight would present some problems, such as the DG form for the Oxygen and the wheelchair, but he could drive himself on a 125" flat ....

OK, , not a serious solution but this guy might not fit through a regular door, what happens in case there is an emergency, such things have to be considered ....



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39907 posts, RR: 75
Reply 12, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 21285 times:

I read this article earlier and these news outlets are so full of it! British Airways did what they had to do. It would be totally impractical for him to fly and carry all necessary medical equipment to keep him breathing throughout the flight. I really feel bad for the poor guy and hope he is able to recover or at least contain his illness.

The REAL question is, why isn't he getting medical treatment by the wonderful government run healthcare in his home country?   


BTW, I used the 'F' word 4 times.  
Quoting Doona (Reply 7):
Excuse me, I need to go and be f*bulous.

  

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 4):
Quoting tioloko100 (Thread starter):
Common guys!

I think you mean "Come on" and not common.

 
Not sure if I should be posting then. I'm not common.   



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineXFSUgimpLB41X From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 4212 posts, RR: 37
Reply 13, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 21187 times:

Ok, if he needs oxygen, can't move on his own, and can barely fit through the main door (and as a consequence completely blocking the row he's taking up): let's explore the consequences of that in an emergency evac situation. Should others need to die because he has some divine right to partake in the miracle of flight?


Chicks dig winglets.
User currently onlinebennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7694 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 21178 times:

Would be interesting to know what his weight/size were on the outbound trip.

Also, has the size/weight of the equipment that he requires changed.

Finally, was BA advised in advance of his size issues.


User currently offlinecedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8145 posts, RR: 54
Reply 15, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 21013 times:

I don't even see why the word "fat" is offensive. If you need help breathing and can't fit through a door, you are, beyond question, fat. If this guy or anyone else is offended by it, get on the treadmill and fix it. Their lack of self-control does not mean they're entitled to endanger (at worst - by blocking an aisle or exit) or inconvenience (at least - by spilling into someone else's personal space) others.

Personally, if a real fatty sat next to me on a flight of more than an hour, and was taking all the armrest or otherwise infringing my space, I would get up and ask them to be reseated. It might be a bit embarrassing for the fatty but sorry, shouldn't have gone back up for a third helping at the buffet. Or, feel free to have a third, fourth and fifth helping, but don't make me pick up the tab.



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2206 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 21014 times:
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Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 8):
Did he put on significant weight while being in the USA?

You'll be surprised what $9,99 All-you-can-eat buffets can do to you.

When I lived in Australia I experienced a situation with McCafferty's Coaches, one huge guy was trying to board the bus for ever so long but just couldn't get through the door, it ended with the driver saying: "look, mate, you're just to big and we have to go now". So the big guy stood there with his suitcase as we drove off, wonder if he found alternative transport.

I find BA staff to be very professional and discrete, and I doubt they called him fat to his face. Behind the scenes, yes, but not to him.



Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
User currently offlinejcwr56 From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 524 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 20945 times:

I'll throw this out there and I saw the guy within the terminal.

Too big to sit in a First class seat
Too big to walk between aisles of the plane
Too big to walk up a set of stairs to have him access the last row of economy. Physically, I just couldnt see him doing it even if he was asked.
Too big to fit in a help vehicle which are used for wheel chairs.
TSA was even trying to figure out how they'd get him patted down without making a scene.

I understand the where the guy is coming from, but the picture in the article does not accurately reflect how large this was guy.

BA was put in a very awkard position.


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39907 posts, RR: 75
Reply 18, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 20923 times:

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 15):
If this guy or anyone else is offended by it, get on the treadmill and fix it. Their lack of self-control does not mean they're entitled to endanger
Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 16):
You'll be surprised what $9,99 All-you-can-eat buffets can do to you.

That's why it's best to verify these stories from a another legitimate news source to get the full story.


http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-...ritish-airways-20131108-2x5ix.html

From the article;

"Kevin Chenais, 22, spent a year and a half at the Mayo Clinic for treatment of a hormone disorder which led him to weigh more than 220 kilograms.



Again, I'd like to know why he couldn't get treated in his home country that has such a wonderful government ran healthcare system that liberals like to brag about.

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 16):
You'll be surprised what $9,99 All-you-can-eat buffets can do to you.

Or pay $39,99 for the same crap in Europe.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineseahawk From Germany, joined May 2005, 1134 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 20799 times:

He is too fat. That is a fact and no insult.

User currently offlineoffloaded From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2009, 890 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 20695 times:

The articles stated that he flew there on BA, so they got him there but refused to fly him back. Unless he actually put on weight at the clinic, what else changed?


To no one will we sell, or deny, or delay, right or justice - Magna Carta, 1215
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13649 posts, RR: 62
Reply 21, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 20658 times:
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Quoting seahawk (Reply 19):
He is too fat. That is a fact and no insult.

I think you mean f*t, right?  



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlinemad99 From Spain, joined Mar 2012, 595 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 20519 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 18):
why he couldn't get treated in his home country

due to his size so they sent him to the experts.
he had no issues flying inside the usa, 220kg isn't that big in some parts of the usa


User currently offlineAyostoLeon From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 20435 times:

@ I think you mean f*t, right?
No, can't be. BA isn't part of *alliance.  

The passenger spent 18 months in the US and a lot can happen in that time, including changes in fitness for travel. The article does not say what the condition of the passenger was before travel to the US. Might his condition have deteriorated during his stay?


User currently onlinebennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7694 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 20428 times:

220KG sounds scary to me.

User currently offlinejsfr From France, joined Oct 2009, 14 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 21792 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 18):
Again, I'd like to know why he couldn't get treated in his home country that has such a wonderful government ran healthcare system that liberals like to brag about.

I've just seen a news report on this incident here in France. Both the affected person and his mother were interviewed. They might live in France, and the mother seems to have a French family name, however, they are definitely not of French origins (before any nasty accusationns flow this comment is based on lack of French language skills and accent, nothing else).

The report gave a better look at the guy than the original photo, he is basically bed stricken and indeed I cannot see how he could possibly travel on a non-medicalised plane.


User currently onlinebennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7694 posts, RR: 3
Reply 26, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 21640 times:

The other part is that they plan to take the train to New York and then sail to England on the QM2.

Firstly, they say that they are out of money, so who is paying for this.

Secondly, the fact that they are going by sea presumably means that no other airline can take them.

Finally, is the QM2 the only ship sailing to the UK. Which is curious in itself, as I thought that they were French.


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9536 posts, RR: 31
Reply 27, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 21775 times:

The QM2 is in Hamburg on Sunday so they have about a week to make it to NY. They will have some fun on Amtrak as well. May be they better rent a van with a large rear door and a ramp. But, if he can't fit through a door, how will he get into a ship's cabin?

If they are out of Money the French consulate must help with a loan.



.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlinebthebest From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2008, 511 posts, RR: 0
Reply 28, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 21431 times:

Quoting AyostoLeon (Reply 23):
The passenger spent 18 months in the US and a lot can happen in that time

Did BA have an equipment change? Could he have been accomodated on a 747 as opposed to a 777 fir example? Not that I would expect an airline to change the aircraft to accomodate a passenger.

Could BA - not that they would, PR nightmare - sue the family for slander? or the news outlet for libel?


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39907 posts, RR: 75
Reply 29, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 21206 times:

Quoting jsfr (Reply 25):
I've just seen a news report on this incident here in France. Both the affected person and his mother were interviewed. They might live in France, and the mother seems to have a French family name, however, they are definitely not of French origins (before any nasty accusationns flow this comment is based on lack of French language skills and accent, nothing else).

They are still French citizens and French taxpayers. Therefore qualify for the wonderful government healthcare system you have. Doesn't matter what their ethnicity is.

Quoting offloaded (Reply 20):
Unless he actually put on weight at the clinic, what else changed?

You need to read the full story. The link by the OP is weak sensationalist tripe.
This source better explains it.

http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-...ritish-airways-20131108-2x5ix.html

Quoting jsfr (Reply 25):
he is basically bed stricken and indeed I cannot see how he could possibly travel on a non-medicalised plane.

I was thinking the same. What airline or company provides this?



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinejsfr From France, joined Oct 2009, 14 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 21061 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 29):
I was thinking the same. What airline or company provides this?

I've seen this once on AF, on a A321, the last three rows ABC seats were folded forwards and a stretcher placed on top, a curtain was in place for the patient's privacy and I think there were all sorts of medical apparatus setup.

If the guy is living in French (rather than just using the French social security system) why is he flying BA rather than AF anyway?


User currently offlineSpeedbird128 From Pitcairn Islands, joined Oct 2003, 1648 posts, RR: 2
Reply 31, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 21011 times:

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 8):
Did he put on significant weight while being in the USA?
Quoting Superfly (Reply 18):
full story.
Quoting Superfly (Reply 29):
full story

Yes - you are right about the full story. He significantly altered his physical composition - there, I didn't even mention the f*t word - during his time at the clinic.

And now its all BA's fault. People are unbelievable. If he cannot evecuate himself or will hinder those others trying to evacuate themselves, of course it would hinder his likelihood of being allowed on board.

Edit: Grammar

[Edited 2013-11-08 06:11:45]


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User currently offlinejcwr56 From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 524 posts, RR: 1
Reply 32, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 20332 times:

Quoting mad99 (Reply 22):
Quoting Superfly (Reply 18):
why he couldn't get treated in his home country

due to his size so they sent him to the experts.
he had no issues flying inside the usa, 220kg isn't that big in some parts of the usa

     

In Chicago, this hadn't made the local news and some of the local stations thrive on stories like this.


User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4301 posts, RR: 1
Reply 33, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 20320 times:
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Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 4):
Why do you automatically assume this wasn't handled professionally? The light-on-details article says BA denied boarding due to safety; as a pilot I'd imagine you can understand that.

This guy has a multiplicity of problems and needs a medical ambulance airlift -- not British Airways.

Also, RST (where Mayo Clinic is located) is only served with CR2 and E140 aircraft.


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39907 posts, RR: 75
Reply 34, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 20210 times:

Quoting jsfr (Reply 30):
I've seen this once on AF, on a A321, the last three rows ABC seats were folded forwards and a stretcher placed on top, a curtain was in place for the patient's privacy and I think there were all sorts of medical apparatus setup.

Interesting.
I wonder if he could have fit in to a Emirates Suite on their A380. Besides the point since it doesn't fly this route.

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 31):
He significantly altered his physical composition

Didn't sound like it was by choice. He obviously has a serious medical condition. He is only 22 years old, he should be in good health and hooking up with girls. He can't do that with this condition.

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 31):
And now its all BA's fault. People are unbelievable. If he cannot evecuate himself or will hinder those others trying to evacuate themselves, of course it would hinder his likelihood of being allowed on board.

Agreed. The press can be some disgusting people and totally misrepresented the story.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineSpeedbird128 From Pitcairn Islands, joined Oct 2003, 1648 posts, RR: 2
Reply 35, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 20102 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 34):
Didn't sound like it was by choice.

Sorry- I did not mean to imply that he did by choice. For whatever reason, his size changed significantly.



A306, A313, A319, A320, A321, A332, A343, A345, A346 A388, AC90, B06, B722, B732, B733, B735, B738, B744, B762, B772, B7
User currently offlineMarkam From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 441 posts, RR: 1
Reply 36, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 20134 times:

"CBS Chicago reports that Kevin Chenais, who weighs more than 225kg - had been treated at the famed Mayo Clinic for a year for a hormone disorder and was due to return home to France."

He could fly BA on his way to the US without trouble, but he then was too overweight to fly back to the UK one year later? That must have been a hell of a successful hormone disorder treatment! Good job, Mayo Clinic!   

[Edited 2013-11-08 06:20:44]

User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13264 posts, RR: 100
Reply 37, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 19914 times:
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Time to implement Air Semoa's policy of charging by weight:
Earlier this year, Samoa Air became the first airline to start charging passengers by their weight. When booking, customers are asked to enter their details, including the weight of passengers, and the fare is calculated accordingly. They are then weighed at the airport to ensure they have paid the correct amount."
http://metro.co.uk/2013/11/06/too-fa...n-any-weight-loss-gimmick-4176442/

Above link a story of another couple who was also denied flight privileges due to weight (weight balance issues on a smaller plane).

Note: Airline seats are not safe above 275lbm (125kg). Their certified range is 75lbm to 275lbm. One cannot keep safe a 75lbm person in a seat designed to hold more than 275lbm (there just won't be enough spring 'cushion' for the 75lbm person in a 9G crash if seats are made for a heavier person, e.g., look how well the seats did for OZ at SFO).

It sounds as if the individual's situation changed medically during his stay in the USA. Or as a French citizen he could be accommodated on AF...

My sister did her fellowship at the Mayo, let me see if she knows anyone who knows more (however, it is very likely they won't talk).

Quoting drew777 (Reply 1):
That appears to be paraphrasing by The West Australia newspaper.

Yep...

Quoting XFSUgimpLB41X (Reply 13):

Ok, if he needs oxygen, can't move on his own, and can barely fit through the main door (and as a consequence completely blocking the row he's taking up): let's explore the consequences of that in an emergency evac situation. Should others need to die because he has some divine right to partake in the miracle of flight?

Exactly. Or maybe his condition changed enough he was far less mobile. One of the other photos I saw have him in a mobile wheelchair like device. If he is that heavy and not mobile, is there a rule that applies? Or a

Quoting Superfly (Reply 29):
You need to read the full story.

I would like to know a lot more than any link provided. BA was professional and didn't say much. Has anything else leaked?

Quoting jsfr (Reply 25):
The report gave a better look at the guy than the original photo, he is basically bed stricken and indeed I cannot see how he could possibly travel on a non-medicalised plane.

If that is the case, that is the case. I don't see the need to sensationalize.

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 26):
Secondly, the fact that they are going by sea presumably means that no other airline can take them.

If this was an issue, another airline would fly the person and BA should be help accountable for the costs. But if the person cannot safely be flown, the QE2 would be a *very* nice way to make it to Europe. I have a few friends afraid of flying (ironic eh?) who regularly travel to Europe via train/bus and the QE2. They love it.


Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently onlinebennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7694 posts, RR: 3
Reply 38, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 19437 times:

The point is that the decision that he was too big to fly was not just BA's, no other airline will take him either.

User currently offlinePROSA From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5644 posts, RR: 4
Reply 39, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 19200 times:

Here is a fairly balanced analysis of the situation on the Outside the Beltway political forum:
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/sic...too-fat-to-fly-on-british-airways/



"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2206 posts, RR: 1
Reply 40, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 18836 times:
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Quoting Superfly (Reply 18):
Again, I'd like to know why he couldn't get treated in his home country that has such a wonderful government ran healthcare system that liberals like to brag about

A friend of mine was sent to "f*t camp" when his weight reached 140kg and my wonderful government-run healthcare system payed for the whole stay. Two years later he weighs 90kg and looks and feels great.

I was told that treating overweight up until 150kg is quite manageable, but when patients are 150-300kg they are often so worn out physically and mentally that it is a huge task and takes a long time. So patients are sent off to camp before they become too big, apparently.



Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
User currently offlineTYCOON From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 398 posts, RR: 3
Reply 41, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 18599 times:

Superfly, with all due respect, your comments about French healthcare are just plain obnoxious.
Yes it is true that France invariably ranks #1 in quality of healthcare in the world for a number of years now... But that is beside the point.
Often, the Mayo Clinic, and others, try new or unverified remedies for particular problems. It could simply be that the treatment the Mayo Clinic was offering to address this person's ailments has just not (yet) been authorised in France or remains controversial locally. End of story.
I've been operated on, spent time (luckily not that often, I assure you) in hospitals on both sides of the Atlantic (France and U.S.)... and yes, France blows away the kind of medical care any average citizen can get in the U.S., for considerably cheaper as well (not even to discuss the cost of prescription drugs). And I never have to wait to see my doctor in France (contrary to what right-wing zealots would have people believe).
Any how, back to the story, I feel sorry for the family, but I can understand BA's position. It would appear he put on this excessive weight after he was flown over and followed the Mayo Clinic treatment.


User currently offlinebillreid From Netherlands, joined Jun 2006, 1015 posts, RR: 0
Reply 42, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 18024 times:

Regardless of his weight before entering the USA it appears BA did what it could. I however would be a safety violation to over stress seats with a 500 pound weight.
Based on all reports not mentioning his weight when he first travelled it appears BA is in the right.
Over stressing anything in an aircraft is a violation of rules. We cannot draw any exception lines on any regulations. Breaking safety rules is 0% tolerable! end of story.

If this guy flew over a year ago he had to fly over LHR on a narrow body with a 29" pitch before taking the wide body. So where do you put a 500lb guy on a BA B737? Unless he took rail to Heathrow, and if he did that with transfers in London he never would have survived the trip at 500lbs. I've don that multiple times and the rail connections are a killer!

The real question was why didn't he get the medical care in France or the UK?
Maybe the Affordable Health Care Act website crashed so he decided to go home to use a Really Affordable Health France doctor named Clouseau (inspector's son).



Some people don't get it. Business is about making MONEY!
User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1881 posts, RR: 0
Reply 43, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 17814 times:

Three different versions now all quote the mother as implying she expected to fly economy, and can't understand why they couldn't take him home the same way they bought him over, even though he doubled in weight.


Andy Goetsch
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9536 posts, RR: 31
Reply 44, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 17793 times:

Quoting billreid (Reply 42):
So where do you put a 500lb guy on a BA B737

I can't resist the old joke:

Anywhere he wants....

 



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently onlinehrc773 From Puerto Rico, joined Jan 2009, 48 posts, RR: 0
Reply 45, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 17735 times:

I once had an extremely obnoxious passenger who was loudly complaining to me about being seated next to a very large woman. He used extremely hurtful language. Even though I don't like rewarding bad behavior, I granted the man his wish and moved the lady to first class.

Before we start passing judgment on large people and start talking about third helpings from the all-you-can-eat buffet, please think of the possibility that there is a hormone problem, like the guy in this article. I hate being squeezed next to a large person on a flight as much as the next guy but I'm glad that I have enough compassion to know that large people have to live with that 24/7 and they might not even have a choice. You just don't know.
Hater will hate.


User currently offlinerampbro From Canada, joined Nov 2012, 243 posts, RR: 0
Reply 46, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 17071 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 12):
The REAL question is, why isn't he getting medical treatment by the wonderful government run healthcare in his home country?

His treatment at the Mayo clinic is likely covered by that 'wonderful health care'. It's not the average pierre or marcel who can afford treatment at the Mayo clinic.


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39907 posts, RR: 75
Reply 47, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 16880 times:

Quoting TYCOON (Reply 41):
Superfly, with all due respect, your comments about French healthcare are just plain obnoxious.

What comments?
I simply asked a question. That is why discussion forums exist.
Reampbro answered my question well.

Quoting rampbro (Reply 46):
His treatment at the Mayo clinic is likely covered by that 'wonderful health care'. It's not the average pierre or marcel who can afford treatment at the Mayo clinic.

Thanks. That's all I wanted to know.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineGeo772 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 519 posts, RR: 0
Reply 48, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 16766 times:

Quoting seahawk (Reply 19):
He is too fat. That is a fact and no insult.

+1 to that.



Flown on A300B4/600,A319/20/21,A332/3,A343,B727,B732/3/4/5/6/7/8,B741/2/4,B752/3,B762/3,B772/3,DC10,L1011-200,VC10,MD80,
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7714 posts, RR: 21
Reply 49, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 16718 times:

Quoting rampbro (Reply 46):
His treatment at the Mayo clinic is likely covered by that 'wonderful health care'. It's not the average pierre or marcel who can afford treatment at the Mayo clinic.

It can't be afforded by anyone normal anywhere, so how is it relevant to healthcare system gripes?



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineArmitageShanks From UK - England, joined Dec 2003, 3631 posts, RR: 15
Reply 50, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 15313 times:

I'd be so annoyed if I had to sit next to this slob on a 9 hour flight.

User currently offlineTomFoolery From Austria, joined Jan 2004, 529 posts, RR: 2
Reply 51, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 14418 times:

if his dimensions are outslide of the limitations of the dimensions of the aircraft, with regard to safety of egress and accomodation, then the carrier is right not to assume risk.

If the airline, however, is not able to fulfill the terms of the contract of carriage, then it is right that expectation for partial refund is a reasonable notion.

The article is lacking in information, and I would be at a loss to point a finger of blame either way.



Paper makes an airplane fly
User currently offlinejsfr From France, joined Oct 2009, 14 posts, RR: 0
Reply 52, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 14223 times:

Quoting rampbro (Reply 46):
His treatment at the Mayo clinic is likely covered by that 'wonderful health care'. It's not the average pierre or marcel who can afford treatment at the Mayo clinic.

The guy's name is Kevin.

That's about as French sounding as George W. Junior....

I'm wondering if LHR wasn't his destination andif there isn't something very fishy about his supposed nationality (and the language he doesn't speak).

I wonder how they plan on getting from Southampton to wherever they are going...

And, no, French healthcare will pay for a lot, not a year in a private clinic in the US....


User currently offlinetrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4787 posts, RR: 14
Reply 53, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 13376 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Superfly (Reply 18):
Again, I'd like to know why he couldn't get treated in his home country that has such a wonderful government ran healthcare system that liberals like to brag about.

For the same reason a young girl girl locally has been flying from Chicago to Uk for brainsurgery no one in US will do. Because there are rare instances where some particular expertise is not available locally.

And Spain is - sorry to all those from Spain- hardly the pinnacle of health care in the EU.

edit- my humblest apologies to everyone from Spain. I somehow got it in my head he was from Spain and not France. Mea culpa.

[Edited 2013-11-08 14:29:24]

User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5673 posts, RR: 6
Reply 54, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 13167 times:

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 50):
I'd be so annoyed if I had to sit next to this slob on a 9 hour flight.

I love it when people skip over the entirety of a story just to make a jab at someone. Sounds like you work for the West Australia Newspaper.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlinetrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4787 posts, RR: 14
Reply 55, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 13017 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting rampbro (Reply 46):
His treatment at the Mayo clinic is likely covered by that 'wonderful health care'. It's not the average pierre or marcel who can afford treatment at the Mayo clinic.

Try walk into the great clinic and get elective care without good insurance or several tens of thousands in down payment, it doesn't happen. When my wife did her surgical training there 20+ years ago the going rate was 30K downpayment for major vascular surgery . Love to know what it is now.
If they were a life or limb threatening emergency they'll treat you in the ER of the local hospital _ Marys, Methodist- which isn't strictly part of the "clinic"- the Federales take a very dim view of what they call a COBRA violation- not treating emergencies for "financial" reasons - 50K fine to hospital and doctor and you can get your medicare accreditation pulled and you are out of business as a hospital in the US of A if that happens .
Otherwise she and her co residents were told to tell the patients , go back to your home town, or since you've travelled x thousand miles, if you travel another 70 up the road, the state run University of Minnesota will be more than happy to take care of you and you will get as good care there- or better actually as pertained to her specialty- (and the MN taxpayer will pick up the tab if they cant get any money out of you!)
Its very easy to be profitable at these big clinics if you cherry pick the best paying clientele.

I dont get it though, did he gain that much weight in the US??? I've heard they will sometimes remove some J seats and almost put a stretcher thing down for air ambulance type work on scheduled airliners- one of the wifes patients went back to Ethiopia via ET that way. Though that still gives you the door/aisle access issues.
Plus some of these folk are too heavy for a stretcher, or regular hospital bed or operating room bed!! Or too big to get into a CT scanner- wife had one lady thrown out of car, they could only put her head in the CT - and that was after much arm twisting of the CT tech who said she was over the weight limit anyway let alone too wide to fit in the "hole". This was in the days when Brookfield zoo vets would let local Chicago hospitals scan people of size in their " large animal CT"- so she was stabilized and sent a day later to the zoo for more imaging! But liability issues have ended that!


User currently offlinebobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6494 posts, RR: 9
Reply 56, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 12876 times:

Where does it say in the article that BA refused him because he was too fat?

User currently offlinewindy95 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 2739 posts, RR: 8
Reply 57, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 12627 times:

The truth hurts. And I doubt they need an airline to tell them they are to fat to fly..


OMG-Obama Must Go
User currently offlinerwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3176 posts, RR: 8
Reply 58, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 12336 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 44):
I can't resist the old joke:

Anywhere he wants....

Thanks for that...I literally Laughed Out Loud.

Quoting hrc773 (Reply 45):
I once had an extremely obnoxious passenger who was loudly complaining to me about being seated next to a very large woman. He used extremely hurtful language. Even though I don't like rewarding bad behavior, I granted the man his wish and moved the lady to first class.

Good for you! I would have paid money to see the look on that guy's face when you forced her to first class!  Wow!



Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlinefrmrcapcadet From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1729 posts, RR: 1
Reply 59, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 12186 times:

Quoting billreid (Reply 42):
We cannot draw any exception lines on any regulations

That seldom is the case. Most regulations do have exceptions, and they are often listed in the same regulation. And if you consider the reasons for the regulation it is often obvious what the exception to the literal meaning of the regulation.

i.e. At the blood bank

"have you had an accidental poke with a needle in the last year"

Yes, I take a certain medication by syringe and occasionally miss the target, or otherwise accidentally mis- poke myself.



Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
User currently offlinejcwr56 From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 524 posts, RR: 1
Reply 60, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 11478 times:

Well.....I had a late lunch at the ORD Hilton with a couple of friends, and lo and behold who was sitting on his cart in the lobby area talking to one of the doorman. Overall he seemed to be in a positive mood.

Guys....he's small on the top and lets say extremely large from the waist down. We were tempted to try and do a photo op with the guy but decided against it. Now I'm kinda regretting it.


User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13140 posts, RR: 15
Reply 61, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 11399 times:

This is a very sad situation. I suspect he was sent to the Mayo Clinic as the French (or other EU) hospitals did not have the expertise to deal with this man's apparent unusual health problem. He got sent here apparently on a normal air flight, perhaps somewhat lighter or less disabled than he is now and cannot go home the same way. Problem here is that many expect huge and sometimes excessive accommodations under some laws to protect the disabled even if conflict with the safety of others or cause unreasonable costs or risks to the service provider.
The real answer would be to transport this person on a properly equipped - but very expensive - private ambulance jet and not on a regular commercial flight.
Longer term, perhaps we need to revise international treaties for passenger air flights to have reasonable standards of accommodation of persons with disabilities, including of extreme size (height, weight) or with serious and very difficult medical problems.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25653 posts, RR: 22
Reply 62, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 11374 times:

Quoting billreid (Reply 42):
If this guy flew over a year ago he had to fly over LHR on a narrow body with a 29" pitch before taking the wide body.

According to Seatguru, BA has no aircraft, longhaul or shorthaul, with less than 31-inch pitch in Y class.


User currently offlineushermittwoch From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 2965 posts, RR: 16
Reply 63, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 10956 times:

Truth be told, I have had to sit next to fatter or at least wider people than him.


Where have all the tri-jets gone...
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6727 posts, RR: 12
Reply 64, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 10994 times:

I've watched the French midday national news and they mentioned the story, with videos, but they all seemed to be from local sources so with the guy and his mother speaking English. It's impossible to judge their "Frenchness" like that, and I would hope the journalists (paid by my taxes) would have checked the story ! The fact that he's called Kevin is an indication he's indeed French, it's a very common name for lower class families where US soaps are watched a lot, with children called US names as a consequence. In fact in my trade (IT) calling someone a Kevin is an insult !

Now about his hormonal troubles, it is my understanding that this is a controversial topic here, and French doctors are very likely to just make him do some exercise (difficult in his condition) and more importantly give him a proper diet. If a billionaire financed US clinic wants to try some alternative therapy on him (that obviously failed) good for them I guess. Here you never see someone riding an electric scooter either, especially not someone who is just fat and not old or otherwise disabled.

Fat camps do exist and are very nice (previous experience) and paid for by the system. They're basically water cures (massages, mud baths etc.) with physical exercise and a diet on top.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineJAGflyer From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 3549 posts, RR: 4
Reply 65, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 10967 times:

All other issues aside, why would they choose BA over AF, UA or DL? Surely a connection through LHR is unnecessary considering this person's physical size? It's just one more factor to add to an already complex and specialized travel endeavour. It amazes me how people book itineraries with unnecessary transfers when they are special assistance required travellers.

It's becoming absolutely sickening to see how people feel entitled to EVERYTHING. There has to be a bit more common sense and self-advocacy for one's needs. How does a 225kg person book a flight from ORD-LHR-CDG in Y and then expect everyone to bow to their needs on the day of the flight. Equal access only goes so far. Was there not a similar case of a morbidly obese person requiring unreasonable accommodation who was not allowed to fly (I believe they were Americans returning from a vacation in Hungary?). The person died shortly after due to liver failure while still in Europe.

[Edited 2013-11-08 18:11:06]


Support the beer and soda can industry, recycle old airplanes!
User currently offlineTheRedBaron From Mexico, joined Mar 2005, 2259 posts, RR: 9
Reply 66, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 10847 times:

What I find weird is how politically correct everyone has become and how sometimes normal everyday Joe has to be inconvenienced for the sake of being nice to someone who has a problem with weight, clothes, sex, odor, manners and religion.

40 years ago nobody gave a rats ass about saying someone that was overweight FAT, because its a fact, nowadays everyones tries to justify their weight, odor and such problems. NO sorry even if you have the worst hormone imbalance, you need to eat to gain weight, the hormone problem makes you gain weight easily but, with a good diet and a gastric bypass, its imposible to gain so much weight. Its the same with a shower, where sometimes happens that you seta next to a stinker who has the nerve to pass gasses like a dang, oil well....

As someone who has worked with people with weight problems, I can say that a very large part of it is due to bad eating habits and lack of anxiety control. Both have contributed to the overweight pandemic (Mexico is 1 place in the world BTW).

Once I flew LAX -MEX on AS and I was in the first row of coach I had the middle seat on a 738 then enters this very "large guy" and sits on my row on the window seat, then another equally large guy (euphemism for fat guys) and seats in the isle seat, there I sit like    could not even put my arms in their natural way I had to hold both my ands and arms between my legs to barely fit, so I wait boarding is almost finished, and I press the FA button, She comes and we make eye contact and says : "Come here, I think you may have the wrong seat" and moves me 2 rows back to an empty Aisle seat. She never said a bad word or gave a Smart A remark, she just saw my predicament and fixed it with no drama.
These 2 guys could not fit if the arm rests were down so the moved both to fit....
Your rights end up were mine begin, and sometimes these problems are avoided for politically correctness sake...

But I think in this case the person is way to big to fit and may be dangerous in the event of emergency to himself and others.

Crazy world



The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
User currently offlineJAGflyer From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 3549 posts, RR: 4
Reply 67, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 10280 times:

Quoting TheRedBaron (Reply 66):
40 years ago nobody gave a rats ass about saying someone that was overweight FAT, because its a fact, nowadays everyones tries to justify their weight, odor and such problems. NO sorry even if you have the worst hormone imbalance, you need to eat to gain weight, the hormone problem makes you gain weight easily but, with a good diet and a gastric bypass, its imposible to gain so much weight. Its the same with a shower, where sometimes happens that you seta next to a stinker who has the nerve to pass gasses like a dang, oil well....

looking at photos from 30-40 years ago, you never saw people who were morbidly obese. It looks like most men were under 170lbs and women were maybe 100-110lbs. Back then, people were upfront about weight (You're getting fat, no candy for you). Today everything is a disability, disorder, or genetic. I'm seriously frightened about what is going to be in 20 more years.



Support the beer and soda can industry, recycle old airplanes!
User currently offlineopethfan From Canada, joined Dec 2012, 578 posts, RR: 0
Reply 68, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 10277 times:

Quoting TheRedBaron (Reply 66):
you need to eat to gain weight

This is the kicker. Weight gain = calorie intake > calorie expenditure. That's it. You take in more calories than you burn? You'll gain weight, with two easy fixes: eat less calories and burn more of them.

No excuses.


User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6360 posts, RR: 31
Reply 69, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 10109 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting TheRedBaron (Reply 66):
NO sorry even if you have the worst hormone imbalance, you need to eat to gain weight, the hormone problem makes you gain weight easily but, with a good diet and a gastric bypass, its imposible to gain so much weight. Its the same with a shower, where sometimes happens that you seta next to a stinker who has the nerve to pass gasses like a dang, oil well....
Quoting TheRedBaron (Reply 66):
As someone who has worked with people with weight problems,

Come on, you know, TheRedBaron, that sometimes there is something called unexplained weight gain. There´s a muiltitude of reasons for it, but it exists. Of course it has been abused as an excuse and I bet most overweight people are due to the causes you cite, but you can´t dismiss them all. In our country I would say there´s too much fat and sugar in our diet. I´m glad they´re taxing sodas now. But you´ve seen what a scandal that is causing.

I´m not sure gastric bypass surgeries are the answer. A lot of "doctors" are pushing them nowadays but when I researched them (insurance) I was struck by the consequences of such procedures both long term and short term and the high percentage of people that regain their original weight come 5 years time. I think that procedure is a last cause scenario for the morbidly obese who are most likely to be dead within a short time if they don´t lose weight somehow. But it´s a last resort.

That AS flight attendant surely knew her job. I once spent a DFW-ORY flight in the middle row of an MD11 with two fat guys surrounding me and for the first time in my life I was glad the darn flight was over. I actually became claustrophobic. Nobody moved me to C class, unfortunately. God bless clonazepam (and wine).

As for this guy, nowhere is it being said the type of hormone disorder he has or what was his condition before flying over. The Hungarian lady that we discussed here at length had gained a lot of weight during her vacation in Europe due to her kidneys calling it quits. I´d love to have ANY type of insurance that would pay for 18 months of treatment at the Mayo clinic. A friend of mine spent 2 months there (as a consequence of a badly performed gastric bypass, wouldn´t you know, done here) and his bill came up to $285,000 USD. He laughs when he gets the bills in the mail.

[Edited 2013-11-08 20:21:46]

User currently offlinetype-rated From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 70, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 10044 times:

225 kg = 496 pounds. That is morbidly obese, yes obese is the correct word to use instead of fat in this overly politically correct world we now have. I wonder if BA is calling him a POS (person of size) which is also politically correct.

I was terribly appalled when I read that in England now children can't learn the "three little piggies" rhyme because it is considered offensive to Muslims. Not THAT takes the cake.


User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8508 posts, RR: 12
Reply 71, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 9980 times:

So if he could barely get on the plane, what would he do if he needed to use the lav during the flight?!  Wow!

User currently offlinefrmrcapcadet From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1729 posts, RR: 1
Reply 72, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 9902 times:

If your passenger seat is encroached upon by obese people you have a right to (politely) object to FAs, and complain by letter to the airline and FAA (?) if they do not correct the problem. Name calling and inane ignorant medical advice is not called for.


Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
User currently offlinechecksixx From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0
Reply 73, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 9529 times:

Boy...not Man. He's been treated in the US for some time now and is near 500lbs. If the airline cannot properly seat him, the aircraft cannot fly. PERIOD. They advised the parents of this, and offered full refund. If the parents could afford all the health care and plane tickets, they should be able to seek transportation elsewhere...which they did. The original poster of this thread posted AFTER this story had already broken and ALL the information was out there. It was over sensationalized for this posting IMO.

User currently offlinepeterinlisbon From Portugal, joined Jan 2006, 558 posts, RR: 0
Reply 74, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 9020 times:

I wouldn't want to be sitting next to him on an Emirates 777. Seriously though, couldn't he just fly business class? I mean, he looks like he really needs the extra space because I can't see how he could fit into an economy seat lengthwise or widthwise. He'd need to book at least two economy seats and if they could somehow squeeze him in there, whoever had the window seat would be out of luck when they needed to go to the toilet.

I think perhaps airlines need to create a policy of weight / size restrictions for economy, business and first. Anyone that knows they aren't going to fit into an economy seat shouldn't be buying an economy ticket. And what's wrong with saying he's fat? He is fat! There's no need to be rude to the guy but the fact is he's just too big. I would have liked to see the face of the poor guy at check in when he turned up.


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7757 posts, RR: 18
Reply 75, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 8784 times:

Here we go again with overweight passengers  

Listen- if you can't fit in the seat, gotta buy a second seat.

Plus- you have to buy the ticket AND be able to sit properly in the seat. Some people are thrown out of planes because they act improperly which violates airlines code. This person didn't act improperly; he simply didn't fit in the seat

the guy indeed needs health treatment. but remember, flying is not a right. It's a privilege.



我思うゆえに我あり。(Jap. 'I think, therefore I am.')
User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5673 posts, RR: 6
Reply 76, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 8585 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 75):
but remember, flying is not a right. It's a privilege.

Actually it is indeed a right:

http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/30/justice/no-fly-list-lawsuit/

"In a lawsuit challenging the federal no-fly list, a U.S. District Court in Oregon has ruled that passengers have a constitutional right to fly internationally"

And just in case someone wants to use the "most liberal court in the nation" argument:


49 USC § 40103 - Sovereignty and use of airspace
.............................
(2) A citizen of the United States has a public right of transit through the navigable airspace.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlinercair1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1327 posts, RR: 52
Reply 77, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 8409 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CUSTOMER SERVICE & SUPPORT

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 76):
A citizen of the United States has a public right of transit through the navigable airspace.

This only applies to US airspace.



rcair1
User currently offlineTheRedBaron From Mexico, joined Mar 2005, 2259 posts, RR: 9
Reply 78, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 8310 times:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 69):
God bless clonazepam (and wine).

LOL.... really LOLed.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 69):
Of course it has been abused as an excuse and I bet most overweight people are due to the causes you cite, but you can´t dismiss them all.

I agree but weird instances are lede than 1%.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 69):
I think that procedure is a last cause scenario for the morbidly obese who are most likely to be dead within a short time if they don´t lose weight somehow. But it´s a last resort.

Yes gastric banding, bypass or whoever, should be a last resort.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 69):
A friend of mine spent 2 months there (as a consequence of a badly performed gastric bypass, wouldn´t you know, done here) and his bill came up to $285,000 USD. He laughs when he gets the bills in the mail.

I would lose a lot of weight If received a 285K bill...

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 71):
So if he could barely get on the plane, what would he do if he needed to use the lav during the flight?!  

Good question...

Quoting peterinlisbon (Reply 74):
I wouldn't want to be sitting next to him on an Emirates 777.

I´d don't want to seat near this guy anywhere ... have you heard them breathe? holy cow, sound like they are gasping for air..

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 75):
Here we go again with overweight passengers  

Listen- if you can't fit in the seat, gotta buy a second seat.

the problem here is that 2 seats won't be enough....

TRB



The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
User currently offlinerwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3176 posts, RR: 8
Reply 79, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 8238 times:

Will the seat in front of him recline?

Will he fit through the emergency exit?

Will he fit in the lav?

Is it true that a Japanese airline wanted/had the cabin floors strengthened to accommodate sumo wrestlers?



Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8508 posts, RR: 12
Reply 80, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 8071 times:

Quoting checksixx (Reply 73):
Boy...not Man.

In what country is a 22 year old not an adult?!


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25653 posts, RR: 22
Reply 81, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 8069 times:

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 80):
Quoting checksixx (Reply 73):
Boy...not Man.

In what country is a 22 year old not an adult?!

In most countries in Europe, you're an adult at 18 and can sign contracts, get married, buy alcohol etc etc.


User currently offlinegizmonc From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 309 posts, RR: 0
Reply 82, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 7915 times:

Per Boeing weight and balance standards the avg person is calculated at 190 lbs. So weighing 220kg it puts him at about 485 lbs. So at that weight on my airline if he showed up early for this flight he could go to Customer Service and get a blocked seat but I would imagine at 485 lbs passenger might require three seats. As for the oxygen most carriers do not supply or sale OXYGEN. It is up to the passenger to bring portable oxygen concentrator. Those units generate oxygen , we require a letter from a DR on Official Letterhead that the passenger is bringing a POC . As for the size of the individaul the Air Carrier Acess ACT ( airline version of ADA). The airline is to make arrangements to assist passenger if he / she presents themselves to the gate in a reasonable time. With most flights loading 30-45 min prior to departure this individual should be at the gate at least 1 hour prior to departure. Few months back I met a terminating flight from DFW. My DR indicate that there was a COS on board and required a wheelchair. Within mins of opening the door I could see this individual seated in the bulkhead aircraft right or FO side of the AC. He did wait until all the passengers were deplaned and stood up and asked for his wheelchair
Skycaps had brought a wide chair which had a weight limit of 35-400 lbs. This individual sat down in the WCHR and the front wheels collasped. BOTh of those small wheels just bent down. I advised the passenger that that was the largest chair we had. and I advised him of the weight limit he proceeds to tell me he weighs about 685 lbs. At that point I advised passenger we had no resource for a chair of that limit. I politely advised him that in the 20 plus years I have never had a passenger bent and break a WCHR. I also advised him that if he required a chair to support his weight he should make arrangements for a personal chair. He ended up walking up the jetway and thru the terminal bad thing I had parked his flight at a gate at the end of the terminal. A supervisor called me and said he saw him walking and asked why he was not in a chair as requested. I told him we tried but the chair broke. Good thing those chair are leased not sure if it would repairable. I do feel for the individual whom the article was about but perhaps the ground crew here in the US made a decision and stuck with it. I have never told an individual they were fat we are trained to approach anyone who we deem a custome of size (COS) advised them to proceed to the customer service counter it for for their safety and safety of others around them, we want them to be comfortable during their flight and we will even over sell a flight to get the COS a blocked seat.


User currently offlineRottenRay From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 279 posts, RR: 0
Reply 83, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 7850 times:

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 77):
This only applies to US airspace.
Quoting rcair1 (Reply 77):
This only applies to US airspace.


*and US citizens


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7757 posts, RR: 18
Reply 84, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7772 times:

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 76):
(2) A citizen of the United States has a public right of transit through the navigable airspace.

But they have to pay for it. There is no subsidizing people's flying. Especially if they cant fit in the damn plane.



我思うゆえに我あり。(Jap. 'I think, therefore I am.')
User currently offlinetrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4787 posts, RR: 14
Reply 85, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 7563 times:
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Quoting RottenRay (Reply 83):
Quoting rcair1 (Reply 77):
This only applies to US airspace.


*and US citizens

I doubt that. It probably definitely also applies to US permanent residents and legal aliens in the US.


User currently offlinegarpd From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2686 posts, RR: 4
Reply 86, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 7526 times:

My guess is, on the outbound flight there was enough seats free for this gentleman to take up two seats, (probably free of charge). However, on the inbound flight, it's possible Y was full and they could not accommodate him.

If you're are that big, you cannot fit into an economy seat, either book two or try business or first class(This man doesn't look like he'll fit into those either!).

The onus should be on the passenger to make the necessary arrangements.



arpdesign.wordpress.com
User currently offline2175301 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1074 posts, RR: 0
Reply 87, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 7421 times:

Quoting TheRedBaron (Reply 66):

As someone who has worked with people with weight problems, I can say that a very large part of it is due to bad eating habits and lack of anxiety control. Both have contributed to the overweight pandemic

While that may apply to many people in the US who are overweight.... Please do not dismiss what can happen when your hormone system stops functioning well (see below).

Quoting opethfan (Reply 68):
This is the kicker. Weight gain = calorie intake > calorie expenditure. That's it. You take in more calories than you burn? You'll gain weight, with two easy fixes: eat less calories and burn more of them.

No excuses.

But, some people actually believe that they are expected to provide for themselves and their family... and when you body malfunctions the above equation does not tell the full story (See below for my story as it relates to hormone imbalance and uncontrolled weight gain - and now controlled loss).

Quoting AR385 (Reply 69):
sometimes there is something called unexplained weight gain. There´s a muiltitude of reasons for it, but it exists. Of course it has been abused as an excuse and I bet most overweight people are due to the causes you cite, but you can´t dismiss them all.

Absolutely correct!

So here is my personal story as it relates to significant weight gain. My ideal weight is 180 Lb (81.5 kg). I normally had a few extra Lb and was maintaining about 195 Lb (88.5 kg) when I suddenly was constantly tired and had low energy. I had to eat extra food during the day just to have enough energy to be able to function well enough to perform my job. My sleep changed from about 7.5 hours per day to 9, and later to 10 hours per day. Over time my weight climbed to 290 Lb ( 132 kg). During this time I had specifically invested in exercise equipment and was doing 1.5 hour workouts 3 times a week (at even at 290 Lb could walk faster than many at work - I have always walked fast).

Through a lot of very hard work I was able to bring my wight down into the 260 Lb range - but doing so affected my job performance (this is when I moved to 10 hours of sleep a night).

The Dr's did all kinds of "normal" testing. I was very tired of all the lectures on "just eat less - exercise more." If I ate less I'd lose my job for poor performance (and sleep almost all day - I know I tried it).

In Aug 2012 it was discovered that I had a hormone imbalance, which could be traced back at least a decade.

It took a few months to get to treatment levels that were somewhat effective - and over a year to get where they were really fine tuned to me and very effective. I have energy, my sleep needs have returned to normal, and starting this summer I am consistently loosing weight (even though I am actually doing less exercise than before). The other day at 228 Lb ( 104 kg). I fully anticipate being back to under 200 lb (91 kg) within 3 months.

So yes, there are people where the problem is actually medical and they cannot just eat less and exercise more because their body is not functioning properly.

Now, I also believe that is likely only 5-10% of the overweight cases.

----

In the OP case - I would venture that it is likely that the Drs in France identified that this young man's hormone system was significantly malfunctioning beyond what they were normally used to dealing with - and his only real hope was treatment by the best in that area: Which is why the Mayo Clinic.

It is also apparent that the treatment did not work. But at least he tried it (I give him credit for that - it takes a desire to actually try to solve your issues instead of just laying back and saying that you cannot do anything).


Have a great day,


User currently offlinefrmrcapcadet From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1729 posts, RR: 1
Reply 88, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7297 times:

Gismonc, 2175.. I always appreciate posts which provide information. I do wonder if airports and airline web sites should have signs/links posted which offer more detailed information as to what is needed for those whose needs are not just buying an extra seat. For the unaware over 500 pound would be flyer who appears at the airport and being handed an already prepared hand-out would be useful. Obviously such a person should ideally notify the airline as to their weight and size before they book - is there a number they can call?


Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
User currently offlineMayohoo From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 29 posts, RR: 0
Reply 89, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 7255 times:

In defense of the Mayo Clinic, the policy is if you have elective care needs and you do not live in Mn, Ia, Nd, Sd, Wi, or Ill then you will be asked to seek treatment in your home state unless there is a unique issue with your care (eg: Mayo has a unique procedure ). Otherwise, it would be inundated by charity care patients from everywhere and could not maintain financial stability. Mayo has Medicaid agreements with those adjoining states for most care.

RST is a smaller airport so most of the jets are regional CRJ or EMB models. However, MSP is close by and a limo service or shuttle is quite cheap and runs directly to the clinic or the hospital. Also, the Clinic and the two hospitals are now combined into one entity.


User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3193 posts, RR: 1
Reply 90, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 7223 times:

It appears a feud    still exist between Brittan and France    more than two hundred years.   


Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13264 posts, RR: 100
Reply 91, posted (11 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 7146 times:
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Quoting TheRedBaron (Reply 66):
As someone who has worked with people with weight problems, I can say that a very large part of it is due to bad eating habits and lack of anxiety control. Both have contributed to the overweight pandemic (Mexico is 1 place in the world BTW).

I would agree. Most of those I knew who were obese in high school:
1. Had an anxiety or depression issue
2. Ate too much. In particular, drinks with high calorie contents, but also eating far more than 2,000 calories per day in solid food too.

I know there are people with hormone issues. But for every one of those, there seem to be twenty who latch onto it as an excuse.

Quoting TheRedBaron (Reply 66):
Your rights end up were mine begin

   I always put the armrest down when I'm flying solo. I'm all for accommodating, but I will get the space I paid for.

Quoting 2175301 (Reply 87):
Now, I also believe that is likely only 5-10% of the overweight cases.

Thank you for your story. However, I believe the true number is far smaller. There are those out there. But still, it really isn't safe to put anyone over 200kg (440lbm) into *any* aircraft seat for the sake of other passengers. If seats were designed for heavy people, then not only would they occupy quite a bit of floor space, but they would not be safe for anyone under 50 kg (110 lbm). Its simply not possible to design a seat for an infinite variety of weights (hence why there are child seats for automobiles).

FWIW, the same is true of car seats. Now air bags *used* to be designed to help the more obese, but since that was killing female drivers, they had to tune down the airbags to be safe for light drivers, but less effective for anyone over 180lbm. Cest la vie. That is just the design decision.

Quoting frmrcapcadet (Reply 88):
Obviously such a person should ideally notify the airline as to their weight and size before they book - is there a number they can call?

The only way is to start bassing ticket prices on weight. Say a nominal fare and the first 125lbm (with clothes) is free. Then add a fee for weight above that with a maximum weight. Heck, take out the embarrassment and make the weight fee based on the person, plus carryons and then checked luggage would be in a new fee category.   

And do what Air Semoa does, if you fudge your weight, you pay *far* more at the airport than when booking your ticket. Its only fair passengers pay for their carbon impact.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4021 posts, RR: 4
Reply 92, posted (11 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7115 times:

Quoting trex8 (Reply 85):
I doubt that. It probably definitely also applies to US permanent residents and legal aliens in the US.

Let's not forget that a *consitutional right* is a limitation on the government, it doesn't force private entities to do anything.

The airlines policy or decision here is not stopping him from exercising any consitutional right, he could still hire a private aircraft to travel.


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13649 posts, RR: 62
Reply 93, posted (11 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6860 times:
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Quoting Mayohoo (Reply 89):
In defense of the Mayo Clinic, the policy is if you have elective care needs and you do not live in Mn, Ia, Nd, Sd, Wi, or Ill then you will be asked to seek treatment in your home state

There's a Mayo Clinic branch in Scottsdale, AZ as well; I'd imagine their policy differs somewhat.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3193 posts, RR: 1
Reply 94, posted (11 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 6733 times:

IMO BA statement does take on a prejudicial appearance. "British Airways deemed Mr Chenais too big to to fly on any of its aircraft".

In lieu of working with him they opt for the easy way out. by using the word "any" aircraft . BA operates no less than three aircraft types between ORD and LHR; the 767, 777 and the 747. I find it hard to believe he is too heavy for the 747

I suspect the real issue is placing the demand on the crew; specifically the F/A for his care in the event of a worst case scenario.

I might require Mr. Chenais purchase two tickets and have a flight nurse or another approved escort/accompany him who would take responsibility for his care away from the crew. The medical community already uses nurses as escorts for a variety of patients. AS does it day in and out for cruise ship passengers who run into health problems on their cruise voyages and end up in the hospital in a visiting port.

Upon arrival in London train and ferry travel is a second option to France.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineAyostoLeon From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 95, posted (11 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6676 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 94):

"Unfortunately, it is not possible to safely accommodate the customer on any of our aircraft," is what the Sydney Morning Herald and others are reporting BA as having said.

If the passengers had booked in economy, it would not make a difference whether they flew on a 747 or another aircraft in the BA fleet. The seat pitch would still be 31" and the width 17.5". Or are you suggesting that BA should offer automatic upgrades to first for people who know that they won't fit in the seat but book it anyway?

Information that we don't have includes where, when and how the booking was made. Given that most open tickets are valid for one year (although some may be extended) and the passenger was in the US for 18 months, is it safe to conclude that he had a return ticket? The linked articles do not tell us. If not, the reported claim by the mother that "they brought us here," is immaterial.

Further, the airline claims to have "worked diligently" with the passenger to arrange a solution. We do not know what suggestions or proposals were made. It does appear that whatever offers were made they were unacceptable to the passenger, whether reasonably so or not is impossible to discern.

We also do not know whether BA had seats to accommodate all the passengers who were travelling together on the desired date of travel or on a later flight.

It is easy to condemn the airline or the passengers. But in the absence of verifiable information, is it wise?

[Edited 2013-11-10 17:48:56]

User currently offlinefrmrcapcadet From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1729 posts, RR: 1
Reply 96, posted (11 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6659 times:

I think this person may be too large for simply the two seat option. Amtrak or a van to the east coast, and then ship to Europe may be the best solution. It is too bad that BA and other airlines do not have a handout for passengers for whom flying isn't safe. It would entail less bad PR. A skilled customer service person, serving the whole airport, could be sympathetic, useful, and provide a public service. Also are any of the freight flyers licensed to fly passengers in their holds? As others have mentioned it is the passenger who needs to pay for the flight plus required medical attendants.


Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3193 posts, RR: 1
Reply 97, posted (11 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6574 times:

Quoting AyostoLeon (Reply 95):
Or are you suggesting that BA should offer automatic upgrades to first for people who know that they won't fit in the seat but book it anyway?

I come from the world of results. No is rarely an answer With that said results can get expensive. Still the passengar has the right to refuse after the facts are presented.

HA moves girthy Samoans between Pago Pago and HNL often. There are all kinds of solutions; a little forethought and advance planning makes just about anything possible. I can't help but think there are a row of the seats somewhere at ORD which could have been installed in one of BA airframes. Charge the pax for the whole row if necessary.

Unfortunately BA according to the article (taken with a grain of salt) determined it was easier to say no than it was to work with him. A willingness to go above and beyond is very rewarding for employees who are willing to take risk.

I suspect this has more to do about the crew either (1) not being able too or (2) not wanting to take assume the risk for such a large individual. If it takes a medical escort; than so be it.

A few years ago I saw a Coast Guard C-130 being used to transport a 600 pound man from Alaska to Seattle for emergency medical treatment. The patients medical insurance company paid for the military airlift.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6360 posts, RR: 31
Reply 98, posted (11 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 6561 times:
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Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 97):
I suspect this has more to do about the crew either (1) not being able too or (2) not wanting to take assume the risk for such a large individual. If it takes a medical escort; than so be it.

How many crews? He spent a week in ORD trying to find a solution with BA. This was not a crew issue. Corporate decided they were not going to fly him.

Without trying to sound "obnoxious", if France paid for his transport and treatment in the Mayo clinic, they should be able to pay for his transport back home. Wether it´s by ship or in a private jet/ambulance. Or do they expect him to stay forever in the US?


User currently offline777ord From United States of America, joined May 2010, 516 posts, RR: 1
Reply 99, posted (11 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 6566 times:

Having just dealt with this with a woman approaching 380lbs the other week. The actual execution of telling someone you are fat/overweight/obese etc... Isn't exactly easy. Especially when they're your customer.

In the end BA made the same decision I made. You pose a safety of flight, and a weight and balance issue. Even if he bought 3 seats, would it accurately assist in WB calculations? Would the frame of the seat(s) hold his weight?


User currently offlinefrmrcapcadet From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1729 posts, RR: 1
Reply 100, posted (11 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6477 times:

I just spent 15 minutes on the BA site, checked all 14 screens of FAQ (bad design, all Qns should be on the first screen, with link to the answers), and another information site from the first page. From that I found one on special medical questions that seemed the most likely for 'customers of size'. No information available. Were I a judge that fact alone would be one or two strikes against BA.


Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6727 posts, RR: 12
Reply 101, posted (11 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6387 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 91):
The only way is to start bassing ticket prices on weight. Say a nominal fare and the first 125lbm (with clothes) is free. Then add a fee for weight above that with a maximum weight. Heck, take out the embarrassment and make the weight fee based on the person, plus carryons and then checked luggage would be in a new fee category.

I would agree to pay like that only if my seat was also sized accordingly.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 98):
Without trying to sound "obnoxious", if France paid for his transport and treatment in the Mayo clinic, they should be able to pay for his transport back home.

That story hasn't garnered enough interest here for journalists to get to the bottom of it, so we have no idea of the exact situation, but the French healthcare is "pay first, get some money back later", "some" can be the full amount depending on the illness, drugs, etc., but for an expensive stay in a foreign country, a special arrangement would be needed in my opinion, not the regular system. In truth I can somewhat see the guy being covered but certainly not flights and hotels for the family, so they can't be that poor.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineAyostoLeon From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 102, posted (11 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6425 times:

The BA web site provides an easy to find link for passengers with special needs in a drop down on the home page, headed Information. This will bring up, a page where you can select either Disability or Medical. If you select Disability, the very first words under Before you Fly are "If you have any seating requirements due to your disabilty please contact us as soon as possible after your booking is made."

The Medical link not only provides contact details (both phone and email) for the Passenger Medical Clearance Unit but also information for passengers who require oxygen, including that they can only accommodate one passenger requiring oxygen per flight. They are also link to the WHO publication, Travel by Air: Health Considerations.

It is unreasonable to expect that the web site provide definitive information on each and every passenger's medical condition, simply because there are too many variables. Precisely for that reason BA have provided the contact details and the reminder that passengers need to contact them if they have any special assistance requirements.

How much contact the family had with BA prior to booking or before attempting to fly and what was actually discussed we don't know. While the mother has spoken to the media we don't know if she is telling the whole truth or carefully selected parts of it. BA of course can not publicly comment except in general terms while being bound to protect passenger privacy and being mindful of possible litigation.


User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4021 posts, RR: 4
Reply 103, posted (11 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 6279 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 94):
I find it hard to believe he is too heavy for the 747

The BA quote you posted uses the term "big", not "heavy" - the two should not be confused.

From the reports thus far he was too big for the cabin, would have trouble getting through the cabin doors and would have trouble getting down an aisle. Could he have sat in a row without issue? Could he have sat in a row with the medical equipment he required? Both are questionable.

This bloke was beyond obese and suffers the consequences of it.

Why should any airline *have* to accommodate such difficult passengers?


User currently offlinebillreid From Netherlands, joined Jun 2006, 1015 posts, RR: 0
Reply 104, posted (11 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 6026 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 62):
According to Seatguru, BA has no aircraft, longhaul or shorthaul, with less than 31-inch pitch in Y class.
http://wfld.images.worldnow.com/images/23921047_BG1.JPG

The image above shows the person. He had great difficulty talking in the news interview, and would be a risk to passing away on a flight. The question is also whether the family could sue if the passenger is accepted and then dies en-route?

I think given his situation BA made the right choice, this is not a question of buying three seats it a question of safety.



Some people don't get it. Business is about making MONEY!
User currently offlinefrmrcapcadet From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1729 posts, RR: 1
Reply 105, posted (11 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5999 times:

The Southwest site which provides a lot of information, and repeatedly mentions not just an extra seat, but two extra seats which some people have needed. Oddly though it does not discuss some passengers cannot be accommodated. The BA site does not come close to a discussion of the problem. People tend to think that engineering and science can do everything. We so often hear someone naïve on these sorts of things beginning, "Well if they get a man to the moon......" It should be mentioned on Airline sites that some passengers cannot be accommodated. And travel specialists, which airlines are, should offer some links to how such people can be accommodated. The desired phrase, Customer of Size (COS) should be found early on in FAQ, information, and Medical. This is not difficult, as for example getting a man to the moon.


Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
User currently offlineTheRedBaron From Mexico, joined Mar 2005, 2259 posts, RR: 9
Reply 106, posted (11 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5961 times:

Quoting 2175301 (Reply 87):

Thanks for the post I agree that hormone imbalance, is a real problem, but it is not taking care of it, and letting the problem run amok what causes people of 500lbs plus weight.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 91):
Thank you for your story. However, I believe the true number is far smaller.

True.

I will say that most of us who don't have weight problems, see overweight people and think they just indulge on the munchies and be. On most cases they suffer a lot and can't control the intake, food or don't want to change habits and exercise. due to psychological problems.

One of the most weird and unexplainable things is that a lot of them suffer from it and yet prefer having the "shield" of a big body, than face the world in a normal size body.

I wonder if the seats on a whole row in Y can support this kind of weight for a long flight...

TRB



The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
User currently offline2175301 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1074 posts, RR: 0
Reply 107, posted (11 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5862 times:

Quoting TheRedBaron (Reply 106):
Thanks for the post I agree that hormone imbalance, is a real problem, but it is not taking care of it, and letting the problem run amok what causes people of 500lbs plus weight.

The insidious thing about hormone imbalance is that most Drs do not even check for this with people who are gaining weight. I saw at least a half dozen Drs - including some "specialist" over the years when I was having my energy/sleep/weight issues and not a single one of them thought about hormone imbalance. The testing that identified the problem was for a totally unrelated issue (although being overweight raised the risk factor for it).

So its a real problem - that most Drs don't even know enough about to even ask the question. How is a person to know about it and then take care of it. What if I had been tested for that 8-10 years ago at the start of my "problems" by someone who knew what they were looking for and what the results meant? I probably never would have gotten more than 250 Lb - instead of being over 250 Lb, and peaking at 290 Lb, for a decade.

I will also state that by the time a person gets 100 lb over-weight - the extra fat itself will start to cause hormone imbalances which then puts you into a vicious downward cycle.

Have a great day,


User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3193 posts, RR: 1
Reply 108, posted (11 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5824 times:

Quoting moo (Reply 103):
The BA quote you posted uses the term "big", not "heavy"

I stand corrected.

Quoting moo (Reply 103):
From the reports thus far he was too big for the cabin, would have trouble getting through the cabin doors and would have trouble getting down an aisle

BA flew him to the states; why does it become an issue on the return journey home; be it a year later. I find it hard to believe he gained the weight which BA disqualified him for air travel. Here is a layout of a 744 show to seating configurations. http://www.britishairways.com/travel/boeing-747-400/public/en_us# I see 2x2 and 3x3 seating near an exit.

Quoting moo (Reply 103):
This bloke was beyond obese and suffers the consequences of it.


My interpretation of the article leads me to believe his girth resulted from a medically diagnosed hormonal imbalance which he sought treatment for in the U.S. His girth may or may not be his own doing. Unfortunately society judges with the blinders on. If someone is fat they must eat to much. Not always.

Quoting moo (Reply 103):
Why should any airline *have* to accommodate such difficult passengers?

Because they are in the transportation business.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlinetype-rated From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 109, posted (11 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5830 times:

Quoting moo (Reply 103):
The BA quote you posted uses the term "big", not "heavy" - the two should not be confused.

Actually at nearly 500lbs this guy is big AND heavy.

Has anyone in this tread even felt sorry for this guy? It's not like he ate his way into this condition and can get back to "average size" just by dieting. He has a medical condition which made him this way.


User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4021 posts, RR: 4
Reply 110, posted (11 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5741 times:

Quoting type-rated (Reply 109):
Has anyone in this tread even felt sorry for this guy? It's not like he ate his way into this condition and can get back to "average size" just by dieting. He has a medical condition which made him this way.

I have no sympathy for him, because he most certainly *did* eat his way into this condition, regardless of what medical condition he has.

Fat doesnt just magically appear, and if you stick to the RDA calorie count, which is on average 2,500 for a male, then you will not put on weight even with glandular issues, let alone any health or genetic issue (so says my wife, the medical doctor, sat next to me). The medical condition did not make him this way, he could have trivially stopped it by stopping over eating.

He ate his way into the situation, it's his issue now.


User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4021 posts, RR: 4
Reply 111, posted (11 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5729 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 108):
BA flew him to the states; why does it become an issue on the return journey home; be it a year later. I find it hard to believe he gained the weight which BA disqualified him for air travel.

I don't find that hard to believe at all.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 108):
My interpretation of the article leads me to believe his girth resulted from a medically diagnosed hormonal imbalance which he sought treatment for in the U.S. His girth may or may not be his own doing. Unfortunately society judges with the blinders on. If someone is fat they must eat to much. Not always.

See my other post.

Fat doesn't just appear from thin (or chubby) air, even with a medical condition.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 108):
Because they are in the transportation business.

They arent in the freight or oversize shipping business tho - and they are also private companies who have a right to refuse service.


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13264 posts, RR: 100
Reply 112, posted (11 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5676 times:
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To me, this is covered in the first two bullets of BA's contract of carriage:
7a) Our right to refuse to carry you

We may decide to refuse to carry you or your baggage if one or more of the following has happened or we reasonably believe may happen.

7a1) If carrying you or your baggage may put the safety of the aircraft or the safety or health of any person in the aircraft in danger.


7a2) If carrying you or your baggage may affect the comfort of any person in the aircraft.

Doubt obese is a safety issue, this photo created a bit of debate a while ago:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...bese-passengers-for-two-seats.html

Quoting Aesma (Reply 101):
I would agree to pay like that only if my seat was also sized accordingly.

But fuel is off weight. Perhaps as certain weight thresholds were passed, one would be awarded (charged?) for the 2nd seat. If its done upfront, you will know what you get. For Y+, perhaps they would raise the weight threshold?

But there is a limit. No seat I'm aware of is certified safe for an individual over 500lbm. At that point, one would injure the people in front or behind in a crash. At that point only land or sea transport is safe. Only so much variety can be accommodated. My two daughters weigh under 20kg (they're very young) and I know in an airplane crash their seat is *far* too stiff to be safe as the minimum safe weight is 75lbm. Its simply not possible, without going to huge pitches, to design a seat for a crash weight turndown ratio of more than 4:1 (75lbm to 280lbm). Anything more and other passengers are at risk. Up to 500lbm is tolerated by placing the person between two seats. But that is it.

Quoting TheRedBaron (Reply 106):
I wonder if the seats on a whole row in Y can support this kind of weight for a long flight...

Its the required 9G crash load. Those seats saved a lot of people at SFO. (Many suffered through more than a 9G... so the standards will be revised as the 9G design was considered the maximum survivable.)

Quoting TheRedBaron (Reply 106):
One of the most weird and unexplainable things is that a lot of them suffer from it and yet prefer having the "shield" of a big body, than face the world in a normal size body.

I've tried to help a few obese friends lose weight. Every one refused to listen and was dealing with anxiety or depression issues.

Quoting billreid (Reply 104):
I think given his situation BA made the right choice,

Over 500lbm just isn't safe.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 108):
My interpretation of the article leads me to believe his girth resulted from a medically diagnosed hormonal imbalance which he sought treatment for in the U.S.

I understand his physical (hormonal) and possibly emotional need to eat. But at some point 'hand to mouth syndrome' must be controlled. He was under medical attention. Unless he was completely ignoring the doctors, he should have lost weight over a year.

Quoting 2175301 (Reply 107):
I will also state that by the time a person gets 100 lb over-weight - the extra fat itself will start to cause hormone imbalances which then puts you into a vicious downward cycle.

Agreed. It should be addressed. My sister's favorite anesthesia is 'fat soluble' and cannot be used on anyone with a BMI over 30 and process is not to use it on anyone with a BMI over 27. It is a very safe anesthesia for thin (ish) people. To compare, the first time my sister operated on a kidney, it took her 20 minutes to do the operation while explaining to her instructors *exactly* what she was doing every step. They then wheeled in an individual with a BMI of 48. It took her 4 hours to perform the same operation she had just performed on a healthier kidney, but with the same disease. Partially as the motors on her favorite operating table were only rated for a 250lbm patient... A 110lbm doctor with an almost 400lbm patient on a slab table isn't good. And partially old school anesthesia is slow. (ALL of the new ones are fat soluble.) What's this have to do with this guy and his seat? We simply cannot design everything for everyone. Everything has a 'turndown ratio.'

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 108):
Quoting moo (Reply 103):
Why should any airline *have* to accommodate such difficult passengers?

Because they are in the transportation business.

They cannot accommodate over 500lbm. Unless you can strap the kid to a pallet and load him as belly cargo, BA is not set up to carry a person safely who is that heavy safely.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinetrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4787 posts, RR: 14
Reply 113, posted (11 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5451 times:
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Is weight really the issue with the seat though? A triple unit of seats should be able to handle 500lb easily, thats just 167 per seat. I would think the average weight for an adult male in the US is higher than that. Seatbelts, thats another issue, and may have been a factor.
Aisle and door access and oxygen issues seem more like the rate limiting factor.


User currently offlineLFutia From Netherlands, joined Dec 2002, 3345 posts, RR: 30
Reply 114, posted (11 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5416 times:
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Quoting jcwr56 (Reply 32):
In Chicago, this hadn't made the local news and some of the local stations thrive on stories like this.

Oh no this made the news. I saw it on Fox32 Chicago, I think the morning edition. I saw the entire story and I was wondering where they interviewed him.

Quoting jcwr56 (Reply 60):
Guys....he's small on the top and lets say extremely large from the waist down. We were tempted to try and do a photo op with the guy but decided against it. Now I'm kinda regretting it.

No I wouldn't of gotten a picture. I dont think he wants to feel like hes a huge media object. If I had his problem, I wouldnt want people coming up to me to take a picture with.

Leo/ORD



Leo/ORD -- Groetjes uit de VS! -- Heeft u laatst nog met KLM gevlogen?
User currently offlineopethfan From Canada, joined Dec 2012, 578 posts, RR: 0
Reply 115, posted (11 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5326 times:

Hey everyone! I have a great idea!

Let's continue throwing blame between the airline and the passenger while continuously pointing out that we don't know all of the details and specifics, and probably never will.


User currently offlinechecksixx From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0
Reply 116, posted (11 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5322 times:

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 80):
In what country is a 22 year old not an adult?!

Chill out...The one article I read from a reliable news source call him a 'boy' traveling with his parents. I didn't see his age and only had the pic to gauge it. Either way, he's unable to do anything for himself.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 94):
In lieu of working with him they opt for the easy way out. by using the word "any" aircraft . BA operates no less than three aircraft types between ORD and LHR; the 767, 777 and the 747. I find it hard to believe he is too heavy for the 747

You're reading into it. It was polite wording. Would you rather them state publicly that he was simply too large to be safely carried or secured in their opinion? Bottom line...air carrier determines you too large, wide, fat, big (pick any you want) to be safely secured in their aircraft, then they don't have to fly you. This of course is no fault of his own in this case, however, if they had flown him and he was seriously injured in some type of incident onboard the aircraft then the airline would have been sued. LoL...isn't this world grand!!??

Quoting frmrcapcadet (Reply 100):
From that I found one on special medical questions that seemed the most likely for 'customers of size'. No information available. Were I a judge that fact alone would be one or two strikes against BA.

Really? Because that alone isn't illegal. I'd imagine a judge might say it might be wise to detail the process online, but could not use it against them. Did you ever think that perhaps they are simply updating it right now? Of course the smart thing to do, even if it was on the website, would be to call the airline well in advance.

Quoting moo (Reply 103):
Why should any airline *have* to accommodate such difficult passengers?

To the families defense, it doesn't sound like they were being difficult at all. I'm not sure it warranted them blowing up the internet and news agencies about it, but they procured other travel arrangements.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 108):
BA flew him to the states; why does it become an issue on the return journey home; be it a year later. I find it hard to believe he gained the weight which BA disqualified him for air travel.

You find it hard to believe that with a hormone problem and not being able to exercise during treatment he could gain that weight in a year +?? I find it easy to believe.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 108):
Because they are in the transportation business.

So lets for a second pretend you run an EMS transport service. Your ambulance responds to a medical emergency requiring immediate transport to an emergency room. The patient is 500lbs. The ambulance crew cannot safely secure the patient and the patient dies as a result of the transportation delay. I guess you would settle out of court and pay up since you should be prepared for everything...right? I mean, emergency transportation was your business and you didn't account for that .01% of the population over 400lbs, right? See how asinine 'because they are in the transportation business' sounds??

Quoting type-rated (Reply 109):
Has anyone in this tread even felt sorry for this guy?

I absolutely feel bad for his situation. My hopes and prayers are with him to overcome this.

Quoting moo (Reply 110):
I have no sympathy for him, because he most certainly *did* eat his way into this condition, regardless of what medical condition he has.

Wow...well I toast your good eating habits and hope you never develop hypothyroidism.


User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4021 posts, RR: 4
Reply 117, posted (11 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5241 times:

Quoting checksixx (Reply 116):
To the families defense, it doesn't sound like they were being difficult at all. I'm not sure it warranted them blowing up the internet and news agencies about it, but they procured other travel arrangements.

My comment was made more from a logistical position than anything else - such passengers require personal services all the way through the process, meaning they are more difficult for an airline than regular passengers.

Quoting checksixx (Reply 116):
Wow...well I toast your good eating habits and hope you never develop hypothyroidism.

With my good eating habits, even hypothyroidism won't cause me to put weight on - if there are no additional calories in the intake, there's nothing to store. There's nothing magic about these medical conditions.

That said, people are often very surprised at what actually counts as a balanced meal - not necessarily the food types on the plate, but more the quantity, or rather the lack of it.


User currently offlinechecksixx From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0
Reply 118, posted (11 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5232 times:

Quoting moo (Reply 117):
My comment was made more from a logistical position than anything else - such passengers require personal services all the way through the process, meaning they are more difficult for an airline than regular passengers.

You worded it poorly then...but in response to what you wrote here...that's just called 'customer service'. You're right, the airlines don't 'need' to provide it, but they do.

Quoting moo (Reply 117):
There's nothing magic about these medical conditions.

Cure them then.


User currently offlineopethfan From Canada, joined Dec 2012, 578 posts, RR: 0
Reply 119, posted (11 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5218 times:

Quoting checksixx (Reply 118):
Cure them then.

If we could cure human behaviour and self-discipline, you'd also cure smoking, drug addiction and a number of other severe issues.


User currently offlineXT6Wagon From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 3417 posts, RR: 4
Reply 120, posted (11 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5219 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 97):
HA moves girthy Samoans between Pago Pago and HNL often

There is a big difference between two people of the same wieght if one is in relatively good health, with the strength to move one self and someone who needs assistance, AND medical equipment.


User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4021 posts, RR: 4
Reply 121, posted (11 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5204 times:

Quoting checksixx (Reply 118):
You worded it poorly then...but in response to what you wrote here...that's just called 'customer service'. You're right, the airlines don't 'need' to provide it, but they do.

No I didn't, you just took it one particular way.

And there is a point at which customer services has a reasonable limit - some passengers try to go beyond that limit, it's not a bottomless cup.

Quoting checksixx (Reply 118):
Cure them then.

What a fine counter argument you have there...

They really aren't magic, they don't magically create stored fat out of no calories, those calories need to come from somewhere. If he put on 250 pounds, that's 250 pounds that went through his mouth that he did not need.


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13264 posts, RR: 100
Reply 122, posted (11 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5027 times:
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I think the reason this topic generates so much interest is that people are starting to feel oppressed having to accommodate so many people. So a group that is easy to identify as a self inflicted issue is a natural target.

But the reality is, this individual tried other airlines and *none* would fly him. The reality is airlines are not set up to carry anyone over 500lbm safely. No one. If someone gains that much weight, they are only ground and sea transportable.

Because I'm a tall and 'stoutly built' man, I used to be against the idea of paying by the pound. The heavier our society gets, the more I want an airline that charges by the pound as I proposed earlier (base fare includes the first 125lbm, including carry on weight). The closer to the flight, the greater the cost per added pound (sell it in say 25lbm blocks, with 3 lbm of grace weight).

That would be the most popular airline out there. Why? All the thin young women would fly it! The "Starbucks rule of marketing" is that all other customers will follow the young women... (You don't think those oversize chess boards were to attract men into the coffee shops, now did you?) That airline would have lower costs (naturally heavier passengers would go to other airlines) and a hip/young reputation. This could be what VX or the re-branded F9 needs...

Quoting moo (Reply 121):
If he put on 250 pounds, that's 250 pounds that went through his mouth that he did not need.

An extra 250 pounds is about an even million calories integrated above the 2,000 per day I currently eat.

You happened to pick a number that converted very nicely. As you point out, energy is conserved. Fat has certain properties. One must eat about 4,000 extra calories per pound to gain the weight. One must burn another 3,600 calories to remove that pound (we're a fairly efficient machine, but nothing is perfectly efficient).

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3193 posts, RR: 1
Reply 123, posted (11 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4948 times:

Quoting checksixx (Reply 116):
So lets for a second pretend you run an EMS transport service. Your ambulance responds to a medical emergency requiring immediate transport to an emergency room. The patient is 500lbs.

Sorry been there done that. Outside of a private ambulance service which is realistic only a small percentage of the time. You fall short in considering a fire engine company always follows the ambulance crew on most 911 calls to augment the EMT crew as needed. You have 4-6 bulky capable firemen capable of doing a lot. It happens more than you think when bed ridden patients fall or slip using stability and walking aides.

Quoting checksixx (Reply 116):
if they had flown him and he was seriously injured in some type of incident onboard the aircraft then the airline would have been sued. LoL...isn't this world grand!!??
Quoting moo (Reply 117):
such passengers require personal services all the way through the process, meaning they are more difficult for an airline than regular passengers.

Several comments fail to consider a medically qualified escort or flight nurse whose sole job is to tend for the patient/passengers care. Nurse escorts are an everyday occurrence across commercial aviation. The escort takes the care and to a certain extent the liability off the F/A(s) and away from the carrier. (in this case it may have taken two escorts) BA could have also required a "hold harmless" document in the event of worst case scenario which we all know is highly-highly unlikely.

I'll stick by my original statement in that BA from my vantage point took the easy way out by refusing travel opting to err on the side of caution in lieu of realistic facts.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4021 posts, RR: 4
Reply 124, posted (11 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 4907 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 123):
Several comments fail to consider a medically qualified escort or flight nurse whose sole job is to tend for the patient/passengers care. Nurse escorts are an everyday occurrence across commercial aviation. The escort takes the care and to a certain extent the liability off the F/A(s) and away from the carrier. (in this case it may have taken two escorts)

I didn't fail to consider that at all, I was talking about other personal services. There's a lot more to consider than just the care during the flight - getting on and off the aircraft, toileting, security screening et al.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 123):
BA could have also required a "hold harmless" document in the event of worst case scenario which we all know is highly-highly unlikely.

But why should BA have to go to any additional trouble for this passenger? Yup, great, require said document, now we have to ensure it is actually legally binding in multiple jurisdictions, or does it open the airline up to anything else? Yet more special treatment of the customer.


User currently offlines5daw From Slovenia, joined May 2011, 253 posts, RR: 0
Reply 125, posted (11 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 4896 times:

Quoting tioloko100 (Thread starter):
Come on guys! there are many ways you can professionally manage the situation instead of dropping the F word to an airline passenger, when flying an airline an staying in a hotel customers expect to be treated with respect not with rude responses.

He was ok with building all that fat, putting it on him... and it's somehow wrong for simply stating the fact: the result of his own negligence is... he's fat.


User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3193 posts, RR: 1
Reply 126, posted (11 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4776 times:

Quoting moo (Reply 124):
There's a lot more to consider than just the care during the flight - getting on and off the aircraft, toileting, security screening et al.

These are all workable solutions. Above I posted a seating chart of a 744 showing 2x2 and 3x3 seating adjacent to the airplane door. Those doors as I recall are fairly wide. I'm sure BA 767 and the 777 have similar seating. close to an entry/exit door. HA old DC-10 did which saw some very large Samoans. HA crews were training to work with them.

[quote=moo,reply=124]But why should BA have to go to any additional trouble for this passenger?

Well; because BA is in the service industry.

We can sit on this teeter-totter all day long. We obviously have a difference of opinion and that's fine. I come from the world of results where customer service is not a desk; it's a mindset.

I wonder how this would have gone over had it been a hotel who told him he couldn't stay at a facility because of his girth. Sir you are to heavy for our beds or sir how would you get out in the event the hotel caught on fire.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlinechecksixx From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0
Reply 127, posted (11 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 4541 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 123):
Sorry been there done that. Outside of a private ambulance service which is realistic only a small percentage of the time. You fall short in considering a fire engine company always follows the ambulance crew on most 911 calls to augment the EMT crew as needed. You have 4-6 bulky capable firemen capable of doing a lot. It happens more than you think when bed ridden patients fall or slip using stability and walking aides.

If you're going to quote me, quote the whole thing...not just a part that allows you to twist what I said.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 123):
I'll stick by my original statement in that BA from my vantage point took the easy way out by refusing travel opting to err on the side of caution in lieu of realistic facts.

Easy way? Naaa...probably the legally safe way. Both for them and the customer.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 126):
We can sit on this teeter-totter all day long. We obviously have a difference of opinion and that's fine. I come from the world of results where customer service is not a desk; it's a mindset.

I wonder how this would have gone over had it been a hotel who told him he couldn't stay at a facility because of his girth. Sir you are to heavy for our beds or sir how would you get out in the event the hotel caught on fire.

You're taking it to a whole next level. The bottom line is that few people weigh this much. If you cannot transport him/her safely, then you shouldn't transport them that way if other options are available. Their customer service worked with the family to help with other travel arrangements...what more do you think they should have done?? Obviously a hotel probably wouldn't say that to someone...however...if that person caused a bed to break, the hotel would be right in telling them that they could only offer another bed. The hotel would not be expected to go out and buy a reinforced bed to accommodate .01% of the population.


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13264 posts, RR: 100
Reply 128, posted (11 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4494 times:
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Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 123):
You fall short in considering a fire engine company always follows the ambulance crew on most 911 calls to augment the EMT crew as needed. You have 4-6 bulky capable firemen capable of doing a lot.

Now I know why an ambulance call costs so much.

Quoting checksixx (Reply 127):
The bottom line is that few people weigh this much.

   And it is far different discussing a 9G dynamic load in a seat (required crash safety) in a very weight sensitive seat (every KG of weight costs about $500 in fuel in maintenance burden every decade of aircraft operation). Where a bed in a hotel can weigh another 50lbm and won't cost the hotel much more.

Its just not possible to keep every size safe. As is, small kids are not as well protected as adults in car and plane seats. In cars, we have legislated 'baby seats.'

Other airlines turned down the passenger. This isn't just BA. We just aren't set up to handle individuals over 500 lbm.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6360 posts, RR: 31
Reply 129, posted (11 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4426 times:
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Quoting opethfan (Reply 119):
If we could cure human behaviour and self-discipline, you'd also cure smoking, drug addiction and a number of other severe issues.

How can you cure human behavior and self-discipline? What do you mean? Your comment makes no sense. As for smoking and drug addiction, they can be stopped.


User currently offlineopethfan From Canada, joined Dec 2012, 578 posts, RR: 0
Reply 130, posted (11 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4403 times:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 129):
How can you cure human behavior and self-discipline? What do you mean? Your comment makes no sense. As for smoking and drug addiction, they can be stopped.

My comment makes perfect sense. moo said:

Quoting moo (Reply 117):
With my good eating habits, even hypothyroidism won't cause me to put weight on - if there are no additional calories in the intake, there's nothing to store. There's nothing magic about these medical conditions.

to which checksixx said:

Quoting checksixx (Reply 118):
Cure them then.

Upon which, I replied:

Quoting opethfan (Reply 119):
If we could cure human behaviour and self-discipline, you'd also cure smoking, drug addiction and a number of other severe issues.

Moo says that since weight gain is directly connected to calorie intake, a reduction in calorie intake will also reduce weight gain. checksixx replied snarkily by suggesting that if it were so simple, the issue would be cured by now. My retort was that since overeating is an issue with self-control, it cannot be cured. If we did somehow fix human self control, a large number of other addictions and ailments would be cured as well.


User currently offlineart From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 3382 posts, RR: 1
Reply 131, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 4244 times:

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 15):
I don't even see why the word "fat" is offensive.

It's not IMO. It is descriptive. Like describing someone as being tall or short.

As for refusing passage to the unfortunate person, if his size makes it impractical to accomodate him on board... his size makes it impractical to accomodate him on board.


User currently offline2175301 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1074 posts, RR: 0
Reply 132, posted (11 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 4182 times:

Quoting opethfan (Reply 130):
Quoting AR385 (Reply 129):
How can you cure human behavior and self-discipline? What do you mean? Your comment makes no sense. As for smoking and drug addiction, they can be stopped.

My comment makes perfect sense. moo said:

Quoting moo (Reply 117):
With my good eating habits, even hypothyroidism won't cause me to put weight on - if there are no additional calories in the intake, there's nothing to store. There's nothing magic about these medical conditions.

to which checksixx said:

Quoting checksixx (Reply 118):
Cure them then.

Upon which, I replied:

Quoting opethfan (Reply 119):
If we could cure human behaviour and self-discipline, you'd also cure smoking, drug addiction and a number of other severe issues.

Moo says that since weight gain is directly connected to calorie intake, a reduction in calorie intake will also reduce weight gain. checksixx replied snarkily by suggesting that if it were so simple, the issue would be cured by now. My retort was that since overeating is an issue with self-control, it cannot be cured. If we did somehow fix human self control, a large number of other addictions and ailments would be cured as well.

I am going to reply to multiple concepts here:

I have lived the problem (see post way above).

"Cure them" Really, first you have to diagnose them for them to be cured. In essentially a decade of weight gain and multiple Dr's here in the US, with an average of 4 Dr visits a year - not a single one of those Dr's even thought to test for hormone imbalance outside of the thyroid as a cause of the excessive tiredness and weight gain (and all the various hormones at play). It was finally identified by looking at a specific issue that is not directly related to weight issues (but weight issues is a risk factor to trigger the issue). Instead I was often told that my tiredness was due to my weight gain and that I needed to exercise more, control my diet, and loose weight. I did have an exercise program - and I was able to loose some of the weight (but not a lot).

"With a proper diet".... Your "proper diet" goes totally out the window if you have hormone imbalances and you wish to function. I ate all those extra calories as that was the only way I had enough energy to be able to function well enough to work and do other things. At this point your body IS NOT processing calories properly, nor is it functioning properly in other ways. You cannot maintain a "good diet" if you have these issues; not unless you are satisfied with just laying around the house and living off of welfare and having "Chronic Fatigue Syndrome" to the point that you cannot even have sex with your S.O or Spouse (and trust me - if its a choice between eating a huge meal so you can do things and have sex with your S.O. or Spouse to maintain the relationship; or loosing your S.O. or Spouse because you are no longer fun and cannot meet their needs - you will eat extra food. You eat the extra food in order to be able to do normal things in life - and live with the resulting weight gain. People accept that you are overweight a lot easier than they accept that you are always "too tired" to do normal things in life.

Once diagnosed it took a bit over a year to get my hormones adjusted and stabilized at a level that allowed me to start to loose weight consistently - which I am now doing without even trying much (I automatically have gone back to a more normal diet now that I have normal energy from eating normal amounts of food).

The issue is not "self control" or "addictive behavior" if you have hormone imbalances. The issue is the hormone imbalance.

Have a great day,


User currently offlinemrocktor From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1668 posts, RR: 49
Reply 133, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4024 times:

Quoting 2175301 (Reply 132):
The issue is the hormone imbalance.

The issue is that if you have a hormone imbalance, you need more self control than other people. You still don't get fat from breathing.

Is it "fair"? No, it is a fact of nature, like all other diferences between humans. You either deal with it, or complain about it and force *other* people to deal with *your* problem.

Sadly the complainers are a majority, and in charge of this country now.


User currently offlinetrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4787 posts, RR: 14
Reply 134, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3864 times:
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Quoting mrocktor (Reply 133):
The issue is that if you have a hormone imbalance, you need more self control than other people.

Most people of size simply have bad eating habits and lifestyles. However if you have a true hormone imbalance every physiological mechanism in your body is making you want to do things which in other situations you would probably not want to do. No amount of "willpower" is going to overcome millenia of evolutionary physiological development telling your body to do something to survive. Unless you lock yourself in a room with water and one piece of bread a day, but then you'd probably be dead pretty quick from the pitutitary- end organ imbalance.


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13264 posts, RR: 100
Reply 135, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3854 times:
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Quoting trex8 (Reply 134):
No amount of "willpower" is going to overcome millenia of evolutionary physiological development telling your body to do something to survive.

   But please realize *every* obese person who has used that excuse on me was in fact just avoiding the issue. I'm sure you and others really have the issue. But if one is obese and claiming that is the cause, one needs to seek help and fast for otherwise the weight will be fatal. Not excuse the 4,000+ calorie meal (I've had that happen to me 3 times...)

Oh, my grandfather died from obesity related complications. He died because he was fat and I was very sad to loose him. So that is why one reason I'm against this level of obesity; it is a death sentance.

The other is it is not possible to make a seat safe for children and small women *and* anyone over 500lbm. The technology isn't there at affordable prices. If one needs a seat for over 500lbm, I wouldn't see a charter marketing opportunity.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinetrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4787 posts, RR: 14
Reply 136, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3830 times:
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Quoting lightsaber (Reply 135):
Oh, my grandfather died from obesity related complications. He died because he was fat and I was very sad to loose him. So that is why one reason I'm against this level of obesity; it is a death sentance.

No argument there and while 99.9999% of those who are "fat" are that way through self inflicted reasons, there are truely people whose physiology makes them unable to control their caloric intake. And while its still not totally clear there are some findings that suggest over eating can be as much of a neurochemical addiction problem as drinking alcohol or other addictive substances.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 135):
The other is it is not possible to make a seat safe for children and small women *and* anyone over 500lbm. The technology isn't there at affordable prices. If one needs a seat for over 500lbm, I wouldn't see a charter marketing opportunity.

I still dont understand why a seat unit , say a triple Y unit , is unable to accommodate 500 lbs safely. Thats 160+ per seat, hardly excessive and a real life situation. What they need to be certified for is another issue but if that unit can't take 500 lbs there are lots of planes flying around every day with over stressed seats!! Leaving aside access issues due to aisle and seating pitch, I see no reason why this guy couldn't shoe horn himself into a triple Y unit, or even a double. I would think the seat belts (size and ability to hold that weight under acceleration) will be the rate limiting factor in terms of safety rather than just weight itself .


User currently offline2175301 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1074 posts, RR: 0
Reply 137, posted (11 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3649 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 135):

But please realize *every* obese person who has used that excuse on me was in fact just avoiding the issue. I'm sure you and others really have the issue. But if one is obese and claiming that is the cause, one needs to seek help and fast for otherwise the weight will be fatal. Not excuse the 4,000+ calorie meal (I've had that happen to me 3 times...)

And how do you know that?

I struggled with being significantly overweight for approximately a decade without knowing what was causing it - why was it all the sudden I changed. There wasn't a Dr around who even suspected the issue - and I have very good health insurance and because I was willing to eat enough to have energy to keep my good paying job I had extra money to pay for testing that insurance did not cover. I know I had (and still have) better medical coverage and better medical access than 90% of the people in the US.

But once the issue was identified, and once I got things rebalanced (which took a year and some real work on my part - it was not easy) - I have been loosing weight without even trying.

I really have to wonder - how many of the people out there don't even know if they have a hormone imbalance issue or not. At the same time - if someone tells me that the Drs say they have one - I will believe it.

Have a great day,


User currently offlinejetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 138, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3317 times:

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel...itain/story-e6frfq80-1226763843271

But he praised Virgin for flying him out from New York's JFK airport and paying for the economy-class flight.
"That was very kind of them,'' he said.



Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3193 posts, RR: 1
Reply 139, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3268 times:

Quoting jetfuel (Reply 138):

Kudo's to the Virgin team. There are good companies and then their are great companies. BA needs to shore up their customer care program. As I stated above customer service is not a desk (or a lawyer in BA case) its a mindset.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineflyingthe757 From UK - England, joined Mar 2013, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 140, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3259 times:
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Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 139):

I'd be interested to hear how long it took to load and unload him from the aircraft and where he sat. I struggle at the best of times walking down an aisle, and I'm not that fat, I fit perfectly into a standard seat on board.


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9536 posts, RR: 31
Reply 141, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3259 times:

What an.....

Virgin saved him from paddling across the Pond and he says that the flight was "terribl, terrible, terrible" while AF is hiding behind an A380 so they don't have to answer questions.

I hope that flight was not full, I'd pity anyone whos sat within 5 rows of that guy. Just thinking about how he has to manage his Digestion........

.

.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13264 posts, RR: 100
Reply 142, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 3195 times:
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Quoting trex8 (Reply 136):
I still dont understand why a seat unit , say a triple Y unit , is unable to accommodate 500 lbs safely.

In a crash, each seat is capable of handling 275lbm. Because of the inevitable side loads in a crash, a person will not impact all three seats equally and thus only 500lbm. To have 3 seats distribute the weight equally, the seats would have to be one 'mega-seat' connected so that all three absorb the impact and distribute the load.

Note: The 500lbm comes from certifications of a seat vendor I have worked with before. If another seat vendor has certified for more, than that would be ok. You may *not* fly more weight than the certified weight. Period.

Quoting 2175301 (Reply 137):
And how do you know that?

I, among other friends, tried to help the three individuals seek medical help. They didn't want help, they wanted to eat.

Quoting jetfuel (Reply 138):
But he praised Virgin for flying him out from New York's JFK airport and paying for the economy-class flight.
"That was very kind of them,'' he said.

Something doesn't add up. Why did the Queen Mary refuse him?

And why did Virgin fly him? The seats are not certified for that load. Or did VA buy seats that were that I'm not aware of?!? I thought 500lbm was industry standard. Or did VS marketing over-rule VS procedures (which will get them a nice little investigation). Or perhaps that hour of that day, the person weighed 499lbm?


Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3193 posts, RR: 1
Reply 143, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 3174 times:

Quoting flyingthe757 (Reply 140):
I'd be interested to hear how long it took to load and unload him from the aircraft and where he sat.

That I saw Virgin Atlantic flies three aircraft types between JFK-LHR. the A333, A346 and the 744 I would guess they loaded him last and near an exit door. I do not condone his comments to Virgin.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineblueshamu330s From UK - England, joined Sep 2001, 2987 posts, RR: 23
Reply 144, posted (11 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3088 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 139):
Kudo's to the Virgin team. There are good companies and then their are great companies.

And if you can't see that this was nothing more than an opportunity for Virgin to point score over their arch rival, then it makes your remaining comments on here quite moot.

On what I have seen, I actually hope the CAA come down like a tonne of bricks on Virgin for this stunt.



So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13264 posts, RR: 100
Reply 145, posted (11 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3034 times:
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Quoting blueshamu330s (Reply 144):
On what I have seen, I actually hope the CAA come down like a tonne of bricks on Virgin for this stunt.

I'm at the state I would question if VS was certified to carry a person over 500lbm. If so, kudos to them. If not, they might have flown someone out of qualified parameters.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineseahawk From Germany, joined May 2005, 1134 posts, RR: 0
Reply 146, posted (11 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2918 times:

Btw, the train service from London to Paris through the Euro Tunnel refused to carry him, as they think they could not evacuate him in case of an emergency in the tunnel. AF als refused to fly him from lHR to CDG.

I think Virgin took a big risk for the other passengers when flying him. If Queen Mary fears he does not fit in a life boat, Eurotunnel thinks they can not evacuate him from the tunnel, he surely would not be able to evacuate a plane in an emergency either.


User currently offlinedavies2911 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2011, 40 posts, RR: 0
Reply 147, posted (11 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2792 times:

There were people so much more deserving of a free flight from Virgin than this guy, and for that reason I think this was a bad move on there part.

And he is whinging how uncomfortable it was as well at that.

If the QM2 refused him it will be interesting to see what happens if the ferry companies refuse him as well, especially given Eurostar are refusing to carry him.


User currently offlineoffloaded From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2009, 890 posts, RR: 0
Reply 148, posted (11 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2756 times:

Oops. Now he's stuck in the UK. Eurostar won't take him.

Edit: Sorry, didn't see Seahawks earlier post.

[Edited 2013-11-20 04:30:24]


To no one will we sell, or deny, or delay, right or justice - Magna Carta, 1215
User currently offlinetrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4787 posts, RR: 14
Reply 149, posted (11 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2703 times:
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The family need to rent a Transit or Sprinter and get the poor guy home!!!

User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7565 posts, RR: 4
Reply 150, posted (11 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2638 times:

Quoting hrc773 (Reply 45):
please think of the possibility that there is a hormone problem, like the guy in this article

You've got to be kidding this is guy is probably unfortunate enough to be one of the very few that actually have a genuine medical reason for being f*t. For most obese people the simple reason they're fat is they eat 5 big macs instead of eating something healthy, they drink the big gulp instead of a small soda or water, they eat 5 large fries instead of eating the salad, they drive to the corner store or use a mobility scooter instead of walking. Saying people have a genetic or medical reason for simply being lazy and eating too much is a copout and not accepting the problem.

Quoting JAGflyer (Reply 67):
I'm seriously frightened about what is going to be in 20 more years.
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 75):
Listen- if you can't fit in the seat, gotta buy a second seat.
Quoting gizmonc (Reply 82):
I advised him of the weight limit he proceeds to tell me he weighs about 685 lbs.
Quoting 2175301 (Reply 87):
So yes, there are people where the problem is actually medical and they cannot just eat less and exercise more because their body is not functioning properly.

But where were all these people 20/30/40 years ago, why has this become a massive problem over the past 10-15 years? The real underlying issue may for many be medical but it's the easy availability of cheap fatty foods and lazy lifestyles that's really killing us off.


User currently offlinereadytotaxi From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 3319 posts, RR: 2
Reply 151, posted (11 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2562 times:

there is a London based company that has ridden to the rescue for "large" people.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/tr...-expand-for-bigger-passengers.html
play the video at the bottom of the screen (no pun)



you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
User currently offlineAyostoLeon From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 152, posted (11 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2526 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 150):

Yes, where these people? I recall from my school days a boy that I befriended who was what back then was regarded as fat. He was in a minority of one and shamelessly hounded by some. While the availability of cheap fatty foods and a general laziness obviously will have some impact, I wonder whether other food additives that are commonly used might have an affect. While obesity levels have definitely increased, morbid obesity still only affects a minority. A general question, I am not advancing a theory.

But back on topic, as I far as aviation is concerned there are a number of problems. Firstly, due to the competition between the airlines themselves and the unwillingness/ability of most people to pay more than they need to, airlines are looking at ways of putting more passengers on seats and reducing staff available. Airlines might be forced to maintain passenger to crew ratios but in the absense of regulations they would fly with fewer crew. This increases the risks both for those who are not the ideal size and other passengers. Unless passengers in general are prepared to pay more for flights, and/or in the absence if regulation, it is unlikely that airlines will wish to increase seat pitch, let alone seat width which is more often a problem.

Secondly, airlines in some countries at least are obliged to cater for passengers with various disabilities but it is unclear how far they should go and who pays for any additional expenses incurred. Should airlines be expected to provide automatic upgrades to first for people who are overweight and potentially be forced to dump a passenger who actually paid to fly in first? If yes, then should governments that enact such legislation compensate the airlines for the loss in revenue?

Thirdly, as others have mentioned, if seats are rated to carry certain weight ranges and provide protection "in the unlikely event" is it reasonable to expect an aircraft to install a range of seats with different standards (and how would you decide the proportion and distribution) or to rip out a row and install higher rated seats to accommodate a passenger at short notice, potentially disrupting the travel plans of a few hundred other passengers on the same flight.


User currently offlineAyostoLeon From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 153, posted (11 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 2459 times:

Quoting readytotaxi (Reply 151):

Interesting concept. I am not sure why the author would regard taller passengers seeing it as discriminatory when the concept addresses variable seat width and not seat pitch. The two are not always related.

In the case of the guy under discussion, I am not sure the provison of adjustable width seats would have sufficed. Clearly he and his family either did not wish to pay more for extra space or could not afford to do so. They even complained about how uncomfortable the free space they recieved was, forgetting the adage not to look a gift horse in the mouth. Simply looking at the girth of his legs it is clear that increasing the seat width to 36 inches would still have left him feeling cramped. This guy clearly needed a first class seat but couldn't or wouldn't afford it. Sad? May be so. Discrimination perhaps but not beyond all purchasing options in life depending on an individual's willingness or ability to pay.


User currently offlineScottishDavie From UK - Scotland, joined Feb 2011, 185 posts, RR: 0
Reply 154, posted (11 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 2433 times:

Looks like the final chapter has been written:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-25015604

Whatever the rights and wrongs of BA's position, those who thought the airline was being unreasonable should note that Eurostar wouldn't allow him on their trains because of the potential safety hazard in the event of an emergency evacuation.


User currently offlinestarrymarkb From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2011, 164 posts, RR: 0
Reply 155, posted (11 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 2226 times:

Indeed. The Channel tunnel has *very* strict evacuation rules, would he be able to walk up to 375m along a narrow walkway/through the train to an emergency exit in the event of an evacuation (There are emergency cross passages every 375m, Eurostars are 400m long (Le Shuttle Car/Truck transporters are about 800m) so a train will always be alongside a cross passage if it comes to a halt) - High Speed 1 also has some long tunnels under London (up to 10km long) which have wider spaced escape shafts with long staircases to the surface.

User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3193 posts, RR: 1
Reply 156, posted (11 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 2169 times:

Quoting blueshamu330s (Reply 144):
And if you can't see that this was nothing more than an opportunity for Virgin to point score over their arch rival

From what I've read about VS The company is very customer oriented.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13264 posts, RR: 100
Reply 157, posted (11 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 2085 times:
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Quoting ScottishDavie (Reply 154):
Whatever the rights and wrongs of BA's position, those who thought the airline was being unreasonable should note that Eurostar wouldn't allow him on their trains because of the potential safety hazard in the event of an emergency evacuation.

Nor other airlines, excluding VS and the Queen Mary 2 also denied him passage for safety reasons.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 150):
But where were all these people 20/30/40 years ago, why has this become a massive problem over the past 10-15 years? The real underlying issue may for many be medical but it's the easy availability of cheap fatty foods and lazy lifestyles that's really killing us off.

It is amazing.

1. TV. One can now sit for 8 hours and not move yet be contently entertained.
2. Convenience food. 20 years ago it wasn't as easy to buy as many pre-prepared calories per grocery trip. As you noted, 'cheap fatty foods.'
3. Sodas. Growing up, one or two cokes a day was a luxury. 90% of the obese drink at least 6 per day (non-diet). The American Heart Association recommends limiting oneself to less than 3 surgary drinks (including sodas) per week!
4. Salt. The more you eat the more you'll drink that coke or want more food.
5. Lattes. If you're going to have a milkshake, why pretend?!? There are 190 calories in a standard Latte!

http://www.cnn.com/2011/08/31/health/soda-drinking-habits/

KiwiRob, I know you know, but it is just 3,600 calories per pound. Calories in divided by 3,600=pounds of added fat. or about 8,000 calories per added kg of fat!

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinemad99 From Spain, joined Mar 2012, 595 posts, RR: 0
Reply 158, posted (11 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 2017 times:

Quoting AyostoLeon (Reply 152):
I recall from my school days a boy that I befriended who was what back then was regarded as fat.

Thinking back to when i was a kid, out of about 10 kids in the neighbourhood only one was 'heavy' as they say today and he would only be kinda heavy by today's standards. His name was Jonathan but we called him Johnafat!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-fat-fly-told-travel-Eurostar.html

Looks like our wee Kevin is going to ride a fairy today!!


User currently offlineScottishDavie From UK - Scotland, joined Feb 2011, 185 posts, RR: 0
Reply 159, posted (11 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 1932 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 156):
From what I've read about VS The company is very customer oriented.

Maybe so but they will never, ever miss a chance to put one over on BA. Like others I would love to know how they did this and whether anyone else's safety was compromised.


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