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New Pilot Laws And The Shortage, Govt Actions?  
User currently offlineTWA772LR From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 1160 posts, RR: 1
Posted (5 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 8820 times:

With the new pilot laws (1500 hours, etc...) , making it hard for people without a ton of cash to get the amount of hours needed. And the empending shortage coming up, what does the government have up their sleeve to counter the shortage? Lower hours? Make it easier to get loans for school? I ask this because my brother and I are aspiring pilots.


Я говорю по-русский. :)
82 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDeltaRules From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3700 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (5 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 8778 times:

They offered reductions in required time to students who complete their training and earn aviation degrees from approved schools. 1,000 hours for a four-year college, 1,250 for a two-year college. That was clearly a move to pacify universities most likely to take a hit from the ATP law.

I'm afraid (and I get the feeling with the competence of the current government) that they'll think that's sufficient and call it a day, at least for now.



Let's Kick the Tires & Light the Fires!!
User currently onlineflyby519 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 1082 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8575 times:

My prediction is cabotage coming our way.


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User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7345 posts, RR: 32
Reply 3, posted (5 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 8483 times:

God forbid that pilots should become a high demand career, and airlines actually have to compete for the best new pilots, and pay a living wage to entry level pilots.

The 'shortage' isn't so much a lack of the number of qualified pilots, as the glut of entry level pilots which the airlines can pay almost nothing will be drying up. Some new pilots actually have to pay for the privilege of flying.

The solution to the cost for training issue is that the airlines might actually have to invest in training for their best candidates.

[Edited 2013-11-10 15:47:05]

User currently offlinecv640 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 952 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (5 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 8378 times:

1500 hours has historically been the basic requirements. In the past you flight instructed, flew corporate, part 135, etc to build flight time. The past 5-6 years people got unreasonable expectations of walking into an airline with a brand new commercial certificate.

This law will weed out some, mostly those who thought it was a quick and easy path. Getting your flight time was always tough and a long term prospect.


User currently offlinesilentbob From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1962 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (5 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 8349 times:

Quoting cv640 (Reply 4):
1500 hours has historically been the basic requirements. In the past you flight instructed, flew corporate, part 135, etc to build flight time. The past 5-6 years people got unreasonable expectations of walking into an airline with a brand new commercial certificate.

This law will weed out some, mostly those who thought it was a quick and easy path. Getting your flight time was always tough and a long term prospect.

There aren't many students to instruct anymore, there's no need to fly checks and towing banners has been reduced quite a bit. There are fewer ways to get your time and get paid than ever before.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15482 posts, RR: 26
Reply 6, posted (5 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 8312 times:

Why should the government do anything? Having a higher standard will push salaries higher.


Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12421 posts, RR: 100
Reply 7, posted (5 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 8040 times:
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Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 3):
The 'shortage' isn't so much a lack of the number of qualified pilots, as the glut of entry level pilots which the airlines can pay almost nothing will be drying up. Some new pilots actually have to pay for the privilege of flying.

I always thought this was to help military pilots find a job with the downsizing. e.g., the hints the navy will reduce air wings.   Also, how likely will it be that drone pilots are given credit for some of their hours?

This could either push salaries higher, or will bring back more of the US pilots who are now flying for foreign airlines. Probably a mixture of both. I'm not too worried due to the rationalizing of the RJ fleets up to 86 seaters.

Lightsaber



I've posted how many times?!?
User currently onlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21098 posts, RR: 56
Reply 8, posted (5 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 7750 times:

Quoting DeltaRules (Reply 1):
I'm afraid (and I get the feeling with the competence of the current government) that they'll think that's sufficient and call it a day, at least for now.

Why would that be a bad thing? Demand for pilots goes up, pilot wages go up. That's a good thing - the status of pilot wages in the US is abysmal, and anything that will change that is a good thing.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 3):
God forbid that pilots should become a high demand career, and airlines actually have to compete for the best new pilots, and pay a living wage to entry level pilots.

   Though it's not really fair to call regional airlines entry-level jobs.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently onlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21098 posts, RR: 56
Reply 9, posted (5 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 7754 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 7):
Also, how likely will it be that drone pilots are given credit for some of their hours?

Should be zero. Unless we're going to give people credit for playing Flight Simulator. Because those are pretty much the same thing.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7345 posts, RR: 32
Reply 10, posted (5 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 6249 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 7):
Also, how likely will it be that drone pilots are given credit for some of their hours?

Completely different skill set and orientation. A drone pilot might have a small head start on understanding some aspects of flying - but is completely lacking on others. It is apparently much easier to transition from a real pilot to a drone pilot than the other way around.

Quoting Mir (Reply 9):
we're going to give people credit for playing Flight Simulator.

Drones are a bit more than FS. There are real consequences for crashing drones unlike FS. One area for getting new drone pilots is those military pilots, or pilot trainee candidates, who lost their flying status due to medical conditions.


User currently offlinecv640 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 952 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (5 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 5931 times:

Again, if the hours requirements is hurting those trying to break in, you did some poor research. This law has been known about for years. When I got in I was told to expect to instruct for 3+ years.

If you had asked those who had been in the industry for any amount of time,we'd have warned you. Things move slowly in the airlines. Sorry if you believed a magazine advertisement, I wish they'd ban most of those for lack of accuracy.


User currently offlinen6238p From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 484 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 5870 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 6):

Why should the government do anything? Having a higher standard will push salaries higher.

It appears the exact opposite has been the case so far. Just look at what is going on at Endeavor, was offered to Eagle, voted on by PSA, is about to be offered to XJT, soon to Skywest, and what is happening to Eagle and Air Wisconsin. Not to mention look at the mess other, shall remain nameless, regionals already are.

Apparently less pilots = better take concessions.



To actively root against anybody is just low, and I hope karma comes back at you with a vengeance
User currently onlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21098 posts, RR: 56
Reply 13, posted (5 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 5809 times:

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 10):
Drones are a bit more than FS. There are real consequences for crashing drones unlike FS.

Not to the operator there aren't. Ultimately, there's nothing you can do with a drone that you can't do with a desktop flight simulator, and the experience of operating one is quite similar.

Quoting n6238p (Reply 12):
It appears the exact opposite has been the case so far. Just look at what is going on at Endeavor, was offered to Eagle, voted on by PSA, is about to be offered to XJT, soon to Skywest, and what is happening to Eagle and Air Wisconsin. Not to mention look at the mess other, shall remain nameless, regionals already are.

Apparently less pilots = better take concessions.

To be fair, the requirements have only been around for a half a year, and there was still a sizable pool to clear out. If you waited about a year, things might be different.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12421 posts, RR: 100
Reply 14, posted (5 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 5788 times:
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So far, the only airline I know that has been significantly impacted is Great lakes:
http://www.eturbonews.com/39572/airl...on-act-caused-disruption-air-servi

Now, I'm sure other low paying airlines will feel some pain. In particular once their pilots are in more demand. The real impact will be at the airports small airlines fly to:

"WNRA Director Darwin Skelton said the airport is aware of the cancellations and is worried that the airport might not reach a target of 10,000 annual boarding numbers by the end of the year in order to receive federal funding for the airport. Failure to reach the threshold could cost the airport $850,000 in federal funding."

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 10):
A drone pilot might have a small head start on understanding some aspects of flying - but is completely lacking on others.

Agreed. Hence why 'some hours.' They'll know flying in controlled airspace. Traversing FAA corridors (with a chase plane). I agree they need many hours, but some credit seems worthy. If enough small airports close, there will be a loophole created. This is a political crisis that eventually will have a political solution.

Or not... Perhaps the FAA is about to save a bunch of money in airport subsidies.  

There must be some impact as this list seems to have grown (warning, I'm going from a vague memory):
http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/currently_hiring

Quoting cv640 (Reply 11):
Sorry if you believed a magazine advertisement, I wish they'd ban most of those for lack of accuracy.

   So true.

Quoting Mir (Reply 8):
Though it's not really fair to call regional airlines entry-level jobs.

   It will be those further down the food chain who suffer first.

Quoting Mir (Reply 8):
Demand for pilots goes up, pilot wages go up. That's a good thing - the status of pilot wages in the US is abysmal, and anything that will change that is a good thing.

Agreed. But I think the transition is too abrupt. This will impact some smaller airports to the point they are non-viable for commercial service.

Lightsaber



I've posted how many times?!?
User currently offlinemhockey31091 From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 81 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5488 times:
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Recently I've had some of my friends interviewing and being hired by one specific regional airline. Lots of them have said that the caliber of pilot being hired there are subpar and shouldn't even be considered for those jobs. I believe that they are losing some 88 pilots a month and are doing their damnedest to try and fill all the slots they have!

User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6661 posts, RR: 35
Reply 16, posted (5 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5399 times:

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 3):
The 'shortage' isn't so much a lack of the number of qualified pilots,

I think I understand what you were saying, but the number of new pilot starts is down...there is a severe shortage of actual heads in the pipeline right now, not to mention the looming shortage due to the 117 rules that take effect in January.

The majors will always be able to pluck pilots from regionals. The regionals will pluck from the really small fries to some extent, but it's the carriers (such as Great Lakes as cited above) that will struggle.

The only carrier on that end of the spectrum that's been proactive in addressing it is Cape Air, with their Gateway program, run in conjunction with B6. Tremendous job by them to get ahead of things as best they can.

But inevitably, the govt will have to acquiesce I think because the number of qualified aviators--based on their purely arbitrary and capricious rules--will be too low. And that's without contemplating the retirement curve, which is another massive blow coming.


User currently offlinevio From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 1366 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (5 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5363 times:

Well... not this s*it again...   

... but I'll play the game. I think the law is there to improve safety, NOT to help out every kid that dreams to be a pilot.


1. I don't want a 200 hr wonder at the controls of an aircraft with 20+ people unless:
A. That pilot has attended a proper school or some sort of airline cadet program
B. Is under the supervision of a training captain until he/she reaches a certain number of hours & skills.

2. These "cheappo-air" establishments that pay pilots less than McDonald's should sink! PERIOD! Let other airlines (that pay better) enter the market. If not, let them take the train or the bus.

3. There are ways to built your time up. Those who really want to fly for the majors will work hard and eventually reach their goal.



Superior decisions reduce the need for superior skills.
User currently offlineDiamondFlyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1400 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (5 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5089 times:

Quoting vio (Reply 17):
2. These "cheappo-air" establishments that pay pilots less than McDonald's should sink! PERIOD! Let other airlines (that pay better) enter the market. If not, let them take the train or the bus.

So basically, you're advocating the closing of every regional feed airline in the country? What needs to happen is the RLA needs amended. When airlines such as Republic that haven't had a contract in years can't strike, they have no power to do anything. Let them go on strike to get what they deserve.

-DiamondFlyer



Rock Chalk Jayhawk
User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4124 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (5 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5029 times:

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 18):
So basically, you're advocating the closing of every regional feed airline in the country? What needs to happen is the RLA needs amended. When airlines such as Republic that haven't had a contract in years can't strike, they have no power to do anything. Let them go on strike to get what they deserve.

I agree that the RLA is a relic. What should have happened long ago in the Republic case is the NMB should have released them to begin the 30 day cooling off period, because it is clear that the sides are making no progress, and even worse is that every other regional is asking for concessions, at a time when the ability to attract quality candidates should be improving, and not going the other way. I don't know if the reason Republic has not been released is due to lawsuits about the people on the NMB in general (they were recess appointments by Obama and there is a question of whether or not he had the ability to make such appointments), or if the president is trying to just prevent an airline strike from happening on his watch given the already fragile economy. (A Republic strike would hurt every single legacy airline in the country)

The other thing to keep an eye on in 2014 is FAR Part 117, which takes effect in January. This is also going to increase the need for pilots at the regional level to where they haven't been before, which is one reason I think airlines are trying to get concessions. Part 117, combined with the ATP laws, will have a pretty big impact, and what that is yet, nobody knows.


User currently offlineADent From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1333 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (5 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4876 times:

If it gets really bad then airlines can start ab initio training.

Doesn't Lufthansa have a school in the US to train pilots for LH?


User currently offlineplanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 5925 posts, RR: 34
Reply 21, posted (5 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4759 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 7):
I'm not too worried due to the rationalizing of the RJ fleets up to 86 seaters.

And mainline fleets as well.

Quoting Mir (Reply 9):
Should be zero. Unless we're going to give people credit for playing Flight Simulator. Because those are pretty much the same thing.

And flying an airliner is increasingly "pretty much the same thing".

Quoting apodino (Reply 19):
and even worse is that every other regional is asking for concessions, at a time when the ability to attract quality candidates should be improving, and not going the other way.

The ability to pay hinges on financial viability. I can't recall a regional carrier that is making consistent investment grade profits.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineadam42185 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 408 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4756 times:

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 2):
My prediction is cabotage coming our way.

I really hope not. I think that this is possibility but it is still pretty far down the road and I really hope that it doesn't come to this. Are other parts of the world having a shortage as well? If that's the case then cabotage wont really solve anything.


User currently offlinevio From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 1366 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (5 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4702 times:

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 18):
So basically, you're advocating the closing of every regional feed airline in the country? What needs to happen is the RLA needs amended. When airlines such as Republic that haven't had a contract in years can't strike, they have no power to do anything. Let them go on strike to get what they deserve.

-DiamondFlyer

Yes. And I say that as a pilot flying in the arctic trying to climb my way the airline ladder. Believe me, once I'm done my 4 year stint in the arctic and have about 2500 hrs total time, including at least 1000 PIC on multi engine turbine planes, I'll be a better qualified pilot to fly right seat in a CRJ or an A320 than some hot shot out of flight school with 250 hrs.

Someone with a better business model will come in and fill in the gap, even if it means reduced capacity and higher costs. I rather have 1000 pilots that get paid well, are properly rested and happy than 2000 poorly paid, overworked and stressed out pilots. Competition never hurt anyone, including us pilots trying to climb to the top. It makes us better.

Quoting ADent (Reply 20):

If it gets really bad then airlines can start ab initio training.

Doesn't Lufthansa have a school in the US to train pilots for LH?

Yup, that may end up being the case!



Superior decisions reduce the need for superior skills.
User currently onlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5845 posts, RR: 15
Reply 24, posted (5 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4574 times:

Quoting planemaker (Reply 21):
The ability to pay hinges on financial viability. I can't recall a regional carrier that is making consistent investment grade profits.

You're not looking hard enough. SKYW just issued its 73rd quarterly dividend in a row.

Quoting vio (Reply 23):
Yes. And I say that as a pilot flying in the arctic trying to climb my way the airline ladder.

And what about the place you're flying for. If places like that didn't exist, and no regionals existed? Then what? You can't CFI your way to stardom.



Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
25 DiamondFlyer : Unfortunately the better business model is doing things on the cheap. Until passengers stop buying the cheapest ticket they can, that isn't going to
26 Mark2fly1034 : But it is easier to take some guy off the street and train them to fly a UAV then a pilot.
27 Slider : I get your point but the laws are arbitrary and have NOTHING to do with safety. Is there a magic hour threshhold a pilot gets that magically makes th
28 vio : Of course you can't CFI your way tot the top. Instructing time in Canada is okay to get your PIC time for your ATPL, but most airlines don't hire ins
29 FlyPNS1 : So we should have no minimum standards? Be a pilot with no experience required? Generally yes. It's not a perfect correlation, but experience does ma
30 Goldenshield : Not anywhere near enough to satiate demand. For the GOOD corporate jobs, they'll want experience, and will just about always hire the previous part 1
31 vio : Okay, so I guess, the question is: What is the forecast for pilots at the regional level and how many military guys will retire. Of course a guy flyi
32 planemaker : All safety laws are "arbitrary". "Safety" is a relative word. We all know that airline safety could be increased but economic interests inhibit it. F
33 lightsaber : Looking at the next few years demand, the US military should be able to meet the supply for the major for a few years. I know of a few military pilot
34 Flighty : The requirement is going to hurt passengers, hurt pilots (who pay for training) and hurt small communities. All for a safety improvement that makes s
35 apodino : The reason I never buy this line of thinking is because most of the routes that are served by Regional Jets charge higher fares than routes that are
36 lightsaber : There is a correlation with pilot safety up to 600 flight hours. I do not get why 1500 for pilot and copilot. I agree with more hours, but the new li
37 PPVRA : This 1,500 hour rule essentially destroys any chance of a cadet-style program in the US.
38 Flighty : Does a higher, more costly barrier invite "the best" to join? I see how incumbent pilots can gain. So that's who lobbied for the rule, and they won.
39 planemaker : Not that I don't disagree but I think that there is a cultural shift that has happened. There simply are fewer people interested in becoming a pilot
40 apodino : Right now the barrier is very costly as it is. And I do agree with what you are saying. Here is the thing though. The way the industry is structured
41 Post contains images lightsaber : Yes and no. A surgeon has far fewer errors after 400 operations. I just had a cousin complete about 2000 operations in India (500 of 4 types), in ord
42 JHwk : No, it encourages people with the lowest cost of capital to pursue it. Being a pilot will eventually be a lot like being an indentured servant.
43 Post contains images apodino : Very good point, and it is a situation I really fear happening, and the Fed set us all up for it. I don't know what is going to happen to the industr
44 planemaker : You have a BIG extended family... and talented, too. I agree with the "practice makes perfect" logic... it applies to everything - from golf swings t
45 Flighty : Agree 100% with that. There is room for that, if the pool dries up.
46 atpcliff : Asia is hurting for pilots, bad. Chinese and now an Indian carrier have opened US (and other non-native) pilot bases. The growth of aviation in Asia i
47 ikramerica : The more regulation the more it favors big companies. Despite what some argue, big business loves big government because they know that it makes it ve
48 Post contains images planemaker : I ended up looking up the city on the web and I honestly fail to see why tax payers should subsidize the city. They are about a 2.5 hr drive from Den
49 Post contains images DeltaRules : There should be minimum standards. Just not a magic number seemingly pulled out of the air by the geniuses on Capitol Hill without first putting laws
50 FlyPNS1 : So then what should the number be? I've heard lots of people complain that 1,500 is arbitrary, but no one seems to have a better number. Isn't any nu
51 Post contains images lightsaber : And we're still breeding! Fair enough. What matters is how one gets the experience. But like surgeons, we're now sending our talent oversees to gain
52 DeltaRules : I like this logic: Cut it to 500-750, with some fluctuation based upon demand. The student completes their private, instrument, commercial single and
53 silentbob : Congress addressed the issue in the incorrect way. First of all, this was in response to the Colgan crash and both of those pilots more than met the
54 futureualpilot : How are these numbers any less arbitrary? I've flown with university grads who have no business flying the general public around and FBO guys with no
55 planemaker : Not many people talk about the "raw" qualities of a pilot... as though they are all at the same level when, in reality, there is a wide range. You ca
56 Post contains images norcal : The issue isn't whether they had the hours at the time of the crash but that they were low time when originally hired. Part 121 isn't the place to le
57 DiamondFlyer : Yes, because training contracts are exactly what need to happen (sarcasm). Training contracts are a sign of a crappy place to work and the company kn
58 norcal : Training contracts already exist for the signing bonuses. 2 years would likely have to be given at most regionals before upgrade is possible anyways.
59 Post contains images lightsaber : I would have a difference on classroom time. Since you're proposing my low hours +/- 150, I seems we are otherwise agreed. I didn't know that. I do n
60 silentbob : I have flown with a lot of 250 hour guys that had excellent basic flying skills. In fact, the vast majority of them were better with basic flying ski
61 Post contains links and images planemaker : We are in a technological valley because of legacy systems but by 2020 we will be very much beyond them. "Avionics" will be much more than "simply to
62 norcal : Not my experience, I've seen a lot of very sketchy cross wind landings, constantly behind the plane, wanting to fly questionably close to thunderstor
63 planemaker : Watson is already proof that 6 years is actually being very conservative.
64 Mir : Well, I'm doubtful that it'll do that. Not in the least. Not necessarily. A lot of good corporate jobs have a training contract of a year or so in or
65 futureualpilot : They already are. Classes at more than one regional airline are showing up with no-shows and several companies are back to offering several thousand
66 planemaker : It is indeed increasingly "pretty much the same thing".
67 Mir : Again, no it isn't. I used to play Flight Simulator a lot, I fly now, and I can tell you that the two are very different, even when things aren't goi
68 planemaker : Yes, you may have use to fly Flight Simulator. What is now available, especially from X-Plane, is indeed increasingly similar. More importantly, as a
69 Mir : Funny, because I used X-Plane as well, and it's just not as good of a training tool as Flight Simulator. Yes, the flight models are better, but that'
70 Post contains images lightsaber : But is it effecting flight schedule? We've been in a down economy for so long we've forgotten 'no shows' are a normal part of the business. What frac
71 planemaker : Yes, again, you use to use. X-Plane is FAA certified to be able to used as a flight simulator... MS Flight never was, nor could. The important and ob
72 Post contains links and images lightsaber : I decided to troll a pilot forum to see how tight the pilot supply is right now. The answer was plenty of unemployed pilots. When the 'pay to fly' cop
73 Mir : But the time spent doing so doesn't count in any meaningful way. Which is what my point about drones was - there's no comparison between sitting at a
74 Post contains images planemaker : It does indeed. In fact, it is harder to "fly" a Piper Cub than a 787... simply because on the 787 you can go from take-off to landing without having
75 silentbob : Those "opportunities" are not nearly as plentiful as some people claim. How many of those guys meet all the requirements for a job at a regional? I k
76 Mir : It is certainly not. There are simple and forgivable aerodynamics and simple systems. The 787 has complex systems and the aerodynamics of a high-perf
77 planemaker : It certainly is because modern transports can take off and land without having to touch the controls... you simply can't do that with a Cub.
78 Post contains images lightsaber : And thanks to the testing being done for UAV tankers and UAV transports in commercial airspace, much more will happen in the future. But there is som
79 Mir : Which is irrelevant, because the measure of how easy an airplane is to fly is (or at least should be) made without the aid of autoflight. -Mir
80 planemaker : It isn't irrelevant at all. The point of this conversation is not at all about the skills to manually fly an airplane but is about what I posted way
81 Post contains images lightsaber : I must emphasize, what is COTS today is a joke. And I'm only talking about what is known in the public domain that makes the solution obvious. I so w
82 planemaker : The interesting thing is that there will be several "gates" and "notifications" to the crew and the airline ops center before the flight parameters a
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