Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Norwegian To Open Base In Madrid - 6 New Routes  
User currently onlineSCQ83 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 1049 posts, RR: 0
Posted (11 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 8121 times:

Norwegian to start its 5th Spanish base in MAD with routes to ARN, HAM, HEL, LGW, OSL and WAW, in addition to CPH - already operated -, from S14.

http://media.norwegian.com/en/#/pres...d-its-spanish-route-network-927236

26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinesmbukas From Lithuania, joined Feb 2009, 211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (11 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 7869 times:

They will rule the world or ... they will eat themselves.

I personally become more and more sceptic on Norwegian developments.


User currently offlinestlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9427 posts, RR: 26
Reply 2, posted (11 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7811 times:

Talk about ambition.

Norwegian will hire about 100 folks for the Madrid expansion.



if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently onlineAlsatian From France, joined May 2005, 424 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (11 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7811 times:

Quoting smbukas (Reply 1):
I personally become more and more sceptic on Norwegian developments.

With Bjorn Kjos as CEO, I am quite optimistic. Time will tell.



Ok I am French but I am not on strike
User currently offlineMortyman From Norway, joined Aug 2006, 4007 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (11 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7013 times:

Quoting smbukas (Reply 1):
I personally become more and more sceptic on Norwegian developments.

Why ?

Apart from the problems With the Dreamliners for a period, he has been doing great so far.


User currently offlinesmbukas From Lithuania, joined Feb 2009, 211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (11 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6930 times:

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 4):
Apart from the problems With the Dreamliners for a period, he has been doing great so far.

Have they succeeded anywhere outside Nordics? Data, which are available (from LGW for example) shows they are not. (They failed at WAW few years ago). Now they are going to MAD where FR and U2 reduced as they found the market for LCC just not here, at least for now.

Anyway, it will be interesting to see where they will go next.


User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3402 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (11 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6816 times:

Quoting stlgph (Reply 2):
Norwegian will hire about 100 folks for the Madrid expansion.

Will they work for Norwegian or be contracted out?


User currently offlineLN-KGL From Norway, joined Sep 1999, 1048 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (11 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6727 times:

I think this quote from a Norwegian 15 October press release will give you some answers OB1504:

- In line with legal developments in Europe, fully owned country-specific resource companies will be established
- Hired pilots will be offered permanent employment locally in the respective resource companies. Pilots in Finland are the first to be offered permanent employment by the first quarter 2014. Pilots at bases in Spain and England will follow.


User currently offlinespantax From Belgium, joined Nov 2004, 323 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (11 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6600 times:

Quoting smbukas (Reply 5):
Now they are going to MAD where FR and U2 reduced as they found the market for LCC just not here, at least for now

Data for 2013, JAN-OCT. Pax at Spanish airports.

Ryanair: 29 million
Vueling: 20
Air Europa: 11,6
Iberia: 11,2
Easyjet: 10,6

Well, it seems that LCC are not having such a bad time in Spain... Norwegian could also fly domestic routes, as Ryanair is doing (becoming, by the way, a kind of "Spanish flag carrier"), because there should be some possibilities.



A300.10.19.20.21.30.40,AN26,ATR42,AVR146,B717.27.37.47.57.77,B1900,C130,C212,CH47,CRJ200.700,DC9,DHC4,ERJ135.190,F27
User currently offlineAisak From Spain, joined Aug 2005, 763 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (11 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6523 times:

Quoting smbukas (Reply 5):
Now they are going to MAD where FR and U2 reduced as they found the market for LCC just not here, at least for now.

Well, that might be the idea. There is a plan set by AENA (spanish airports owner) to deeply discount airport fees to airlines willing to start new routers. This is to help recover from the "sudden" lost of traffic at spanish airports once they came up with the idea of raising fees up to 100% last year at MAD & BCN.


User currently onlineAlsatian From France, joined May 2005, 424 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (11 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6430 times:

Quoting spantax (Reply 8):
Ryanair: 29 million
Vueling: 20
Air Europa: 11,6
Iberia: 11,2
Easyjet: 10,6

Do you confirm that UX carried more pax than IB ?!



Ok I am French but I am not on strike
User currently offlinespantax From Belgium, joined Nov 2004, 323 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (11 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6368 times:

Quoting Alsatian (Reply 10):
Do you confirm that UX carried more pax than IB ?!

Yes.

Air Europa: 11.643.761
Iberia: 11.230.016

Source: AENA

http://www.aena-aeropuertos.es/csee/...gename=Estadisticas%2FEstadisticas



A300.10.19.20.21.30.40,AN26,ATR42,AVR146,B717.27.37.47.57.77,B1900,C130,C212,CH47,CRJ200.700,DC9,DHC4,ERJ135.190,F27
User currently offlineMD11junkie From Argentina, joined May 2005, 3148 posts, RR: 57
Reply 12, posted (11 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6275 times:

Quoting Alsatian (Reply 10):

Do you confirm that UX carried more pax than IB ?!

Yes, they did.
http://noticias.lainformacion.com/ec...septiembre_LwB9UmltAfv95opVMGSz13/

Saludos,



There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
User currently offlinemfc From Spain, joined Feb 2006, 269 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (11 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6150 times:

Quoting spantax (Reply 11):
Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 12):

Air Europa carried more pax than Iberia MAINLINE, if you add the passengers from Iberia Express and Air Nostrum the figures are different.

Un saludo,

Martín

[Edited 2013-11-11 15:17:18]


So, we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past
User currently offlineinvaders From Norway, joined May 2012, 332 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (11 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4372 times:

Quoting smbukas (Reply 5):
Have they succeeded anywhere outside Nordics? Data, which are available (from LGW for example) shows they are not. (They failed at WAW few years ago). Now they are going to MAD where FR and U2 reduced as they found the market for LCC just not here, at least for now.

Well if its avaible, why not point in the direction of a source? If you look away from they big failure in Poland a few years ago the only place outside the Nordics they have operated is the Gatwick-base, wich opened last year. Bit early to say if they suceeds or not  


User currently offlinestationmanager From Spain, joined Sep 2006, 88 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (11 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4290 times:

Quoting spantax (Reply 11):

It is not true.

You are misunderstanding the statistics. These stats count domestic PAX four times. 1 PAP travelling MAD-AGP-MAD is counted twice at MAD and AGP while 1 PAP travelling MAD-ORD-MAD is counted twice at MAD only. So UX due to is operating more domestic flights seems to carry more PAX than IB. In fact, at MAD only, IB carried more PAX than UX.

And yes, spanish media misunderstood the statistics too.


User currently offlineSKAirbus From Norway, joined Oct 2007, 1756 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (11 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3453 times:

DY seem to be doing very well out of LGW... Some people I know in London have used them to fly south and love the wifi especially... the prices seem to be very competitive too.

Question.. Does DY have a cabin crew base out of LGW?



Next Flights: LHR-OSL (319-BA), OSL-LHR (319-BA), LHR-CPH (320-BA), VXO-BMA (S20-TF), ARN-CPH (738-SK), CPH-LHR (320-BA)
User currently offlinepalmjet From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 1223 posts, RR: 17
Reply 17, posted (11 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3172 times:

Quote:
DY seem to be doing very well out of LGW... Some people I know in London have used them to fly south and love the wifi especially... the prices seem to be very competitive too.

They do seem to be popular here - I've flown with them twice this year out of LGW and the flights have been excellent. I haven't seen formal numbers though.

Quote:
Question.. Does DY have a cabin crew base out of LGW?

Yes they do.



Eastern - Number One To The Sun
User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7221 posts, RR: 57
Reply 18, posted (11 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2798 times:

Don't compare Spain to Madrid.. Apples to oranges.

Easyjet failed in madrid, and so have Ryanair.

Now, what do Norwegian think they will do differently?

Brand recognition? No - unknown airline
Fares? No - higher cost base
Frequency? No

Spreading themselves too thinly. Too many bases all over the place.



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently onlineAlsatian From France, joined May 2005, 424 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (11 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2655 times:

Quoting stationmanager (Reply 15):

Thank you for the clarification. I was wondering how it was possible just regarding their fleets :

IB : 32 A340/330s and 42 32Ss (+ 16 320s for I2)
UX : 13 330s , 19 738s and 11 E95s



Ok I am French but I am not on strike
User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3592 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (11 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2573 times:

At least initially DY is basically only flying to their bases in the Nordics. Really just a move to cut expensive Nordic cabin crews.


"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlineinvaders From Norway, joined May 2012, 332 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (11 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2473 times:

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 18):
Don't compare Spain to Madrid.. Apples to oranges.

And yet you do the same. Did Easyjet fly to the any of the nordic countries?

I feel that Madrid have been a "try and fail" thing for both SAS and Norwegian the last year.

Norwegian have actually flown from Oslo to Madrid in the past(2008) but I guess it got cut as the global recession hit us with full force.

SAS even tried BGO-MAD (in 2011 with departures on sat), so will be interesting to see if scandinavians want to use this offer now that its back


User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7221 posts, RR: 57
Reply 22, posted (11 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2363 times:

Quoting invaders (Reply 21):
And yet you do the same. Did Easyjet fly to the any of the nordic countries?


So, Norwegian is opening a base to fly to the Nordics only?

Easyjet tried a good mix of domestics and European routes from Madrid. They were not a success.



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineVC10DC10 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1037 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (11 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2013 times:

Question for European A.netters: is the "Norwegian" brand an asset or a liability for non-Nordic routes?

User currently offlineMortyman From Norway, joined Aug 2006, 4007 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (11 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1880 times:

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 18):
Easyjet failed in madrid, and so have Ryanair.

Now, what do Norwegian think they will do differently?

Brand recognition? No - unknown airline
Fares? No - higher cost base
Frequency? No

Norwegian got something Ryanair and Easyjet don't have ... ** CLASS ** ... On Rynair and Easyjet you feel like you are flying on a Budget airline. Not so much with Norwegian. Look's much fresher and elegant than SAS for instance ...


User currently onlineSCQ83 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 1049 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (11 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1853 times:

easyJet closed its base and Ryanair decreased flights for several reasons (discussed in this forum multiple times).

MAD had a formidable, "Asianesque" growth for most of the 2000s, with double-digit growth a few times during that decade. Even with the current collapse of passengers (a drop of 20% from 2011), 2013 will close with the same numbers as 2004-2005... so even in historical perspective is not as bad as it seems. Then MAD had the lowest taxes among any major European airport (reason for which Ryanair set up shop in MAD)... formidable growth + low taxes... everyone and their dog opened bases and routes right and left from MAD. The market was clearly overheated... Ryanair just opened routes to very secondary markets (on a very Ryanair style), and easyJet competed in most major European markets with Iberia, the local legacy and sometimes Ryanair, Vueling or other local low-costs. So at some point you might end up having 3 or 4 carriers competing to places like Copenhagen or Warsaw... from Madrid. Sustainable?

Then the global crisis came, the rise in the prices of fuel... and the recession in Spain that has been tough... and Madrid is a market based on local demand (contrary to most markets in Spain which are tourist destinations)... taxes in MAD rose a lot (some taxes for non-EU flights multiplied more than ten-fold... maybe not a big deal for a US legacy flight... but tell that to Ryanair and easyJet competing with IB or RAM in a short hop Madrid-Morocco - a non-EU flight -...). Add then the high-speed train centered in Madrid that has basically made redundant air travel for most Madrid - secondary cities.

So suddenly easyJet and Ryanair found themselves in a situation where their numbers did not work anymore: taxes increased, fuel prices increased, demand dropped, air travel in some destinations disappeared overnight other than for connections (thanks to the new high-speed trains)... from 2008/9 to 2013... there has been an adjustment in capacity and destinations... a "back to reality"... Norwegian is setting shop in 2014 with this new reality, and there are signs that the economy is rebounding.

So whether easyJet and Ryanair have been decreasing numbers in MAD does not mean that Norwegian cannot be successful.

Quoting VC10DC10 (Reply 23):
Question for European A.netters: is the "Norwegian" brand an asset or a liability for non-Nordic routes?


I don't think it is a liability. Norwegian projects a cool yet rigorous image... that I think works well everywhere in Europe. Probably the main issue is that it is not that evident that you will fly a "Norwegian" carrier from MAD to WAW... but it is not much different than Alaska Airlines flying between LAX and MEX.


User currently offliner2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2699 posts, RR: 1
Reply 26, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1350 times:

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 25):
So whether easyJet and Ryanair have been decreasing numbers in MAD does not mean that Norwegian cannot be successful.

Excellent summary of the past decade at MAD, couldn't have said it better. I agree that Norwegian is fully aware of the new reality at MAD, they have not based their business plan on 2007 boom figures. Time will tell, but I think they can take over the gap left by U2 when the economy rebounds. And in the short term they can take advantage of the fee reductions. Six routes is a moderate size base, they are not going all out crazy, it can be suistainable.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Norwegian To Open Base At HEL: 13 Routes posted Tue Oct 5 2010 01:34:11 by andaman
Wizz Air Plans To Open Base In Moldova posted Fri Jan 27 2012 00:52:13 by Pe@rson
EasyJet To Open A Base In Lisbon posted Fri Oct 28 2011 05:14:32 by santos
Norwegian To Open US Base In October posted Fri Jul 5 2013 23:15:11 by Mortyman
Norwegian To Open New Bases-London(LGW) & Alicante posted Wed Oct 24 2012 23:38:13 by santos
EK/EY/QR In Europe In 2012: New Routes? posted Fri Dec 30 2011 02:38:30 by lisbonbearuk
Norwegian To Launch CPH-BEG Among Other Routes posted Tue Nov 22 2011 00:21:40 by ju068
Ryanair To Open A Base At Warsaw Modlin Airport posted Tue Oct 18 2011 07:58:59 by raaadek
Boeing To Setup Base In Qatar posted Thu Sep 9 2010 03:28:04 by ojas
Westjet Pax Tries To Open Door In Flight posted Thu Jul 8 2010 06:51:03 by YZFOO7F