smbukas From Lithuania, joined Feb 2009, 292 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day ago) and read 7825 times:
Quoting Mortyman (Reply 4): Apart from the problems With the Dreamliners for a period, he has been doing great so far.
Have they succeeded anywhere outside Nordics? Data, which are available (from LGW for example) shows they are not. (They failed at WAW few years ago). Now they are going to MAD where FR and U2 reduced as they found the market for LCC just not here, at least for now.
Anyway, it will be interesting to see where they will go next.
LN-KGL From Norway, joined Sep 1999, 1147 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day ago) and read 7622 times:
I think this quote from a Norwegian 15 October press release will give you some answers OB1504:
- In line with legal developments in Europe, fully owned country-specific resource companies will be established
- Hired pilots will be offered permanent employment locally in the respective resource companies. Pilots in Finland are the first to be offered permanent employment by the first quarter 2014. Pilots at bases in Spain and England will follow.
spantax From Belgium, joined Nov 2004, 335 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 23 hours ago) and read 7495 times:
Quoting smbukas (Reply 5): Now they are going to MAD where FR and U2 reduced as they found the market for LCC just not here, at least for now
Data for 2013, JAN-OCT. Pax at Spanish airports.
Ryanair: 29 million
Air Europa: 11,6
Well, it seems that LCC are not having such a bad time in Spain... Norwegian could also fly domestic routes, as Ryanair is doing (becoming, by the way, a kind of "Spanish flag carrier"), because there should be some possibilities.
Aisak From Spain, joined Aug 2005, 781 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months 23 hours ago) and read 7418 times:
Quoting smbukas (Reply 5): Now they are going to MAD where FR and U2 reduced as they found the market for LCC just not here, at least for now.
Well, that might be the idea. There is a plan set by AENA (spanish airports owner) to deeply discount airport fees to airlines willing to start new routers. This is to help recover from the "sudden" lost of traffic at spanish airports once they came up with the idea of raising fees up to 100% last year at MAD & BCN.
invaders From Norway, joined May 2012, 399 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 11 months 15 hours ago) and read 5267 times:
Quoting smbukas (Reply 5): Have they succeeded anywhere outside Nordics? Data, which are available (from LGW for example) shows they are not. (They failed at WAW few years ago). Now they are going to MAD where FR and U2 reduced as they found the market for LCC just not here, at least for now.
Well if its avaible, why not point in the direction of a source? If you look away from they big failure in Poland a few years ago the only place outside the Nordics they have operated is the Gatwick-base, wich opened last year. Bit early to say if they suceeds or not
You are misunderstanding the statistics. These stats count domestic PAX four times. 1 PAP travelling MAD-AGP-MAD is counted twice at MAD and AGP while 1 PAP travelling MAD-ORD-MAD is counted twice at MAD only. So UX due to is operating more domestic flights seems to carry more PAX than IB. In fact, at MAD only, IB carried more PAX than UX.
And yes, spanish media misunderstood the statistics too.
Now, what do Norwegian think they will do differently?
Brand recognition? No - unknown airline
Fares? No - higher cost base
Norwegian got something Ryanair and Easyjet don't have ... ** CLASS ** ... On Rynair and Easyjet you feel like you are flying on a Budget airline. Not so much with Norwegian. Look's much fresher and elegant than SAS for instance ...
SCQ83 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 1760 posts, RR: 1
Reply 25, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2749 times:
easyJet closed its base and Ryanair decreased flights for several reasons (discussed in this forum multiple times).
MAD had a formidable, "Asianesque" growth for most of the 2000s, with double-digit growth a few times during that decade. Even with the current collapse of passengers (a drop of 20% from 2011), 2013 will close with the same numbers as 2004-2005... so even in historical perspective is not as bad as it seems. Then MAD had the lowest taxes among any major European airport (reason for which Ryanair set up shop in MAD)... formidable growth + low taxes... everyone and their dog opened bases and routes right and left from MAD. The market was clearly overheated... Ryanair just opened routes to very secondary markets (on a very Ryanair style), and easyJet competed in most major European markets with Iberia, the local legacy and sometimes Ryanair, Vueling or other local low-costs. So at some point you might end up having 3 or 4 carriers competing to places like Copenhagen or Warsaw... from Madrid. Sustainable?
Then the global crisis came, the rise in the prices of fuel... and the recession in Spain that has been tough... and Madrid is a market based on local demand (contrary to most markets in Spain which are tourist destinations)... taxes in MAD rose a lot (some taxes for non-EU flights multiplied more than ten-fold... maybe not a big deal for a US legacy flight... but tell that to Ryanair and easyJet competing with IB or RAM in a short hop Madrid-Morocco - a non-EU flight -...). Add then the high-speed train centered in Madrid that has basically made redundant air travel for most Madrid - secondary cities.
So suddenly easyJet and Ryanair found themselves in a situation where their numbers did not work anymore: taxes increased, fuel prices increased, demand dropped, air travel in some destinations disappeared overnight other than for connections (thanks to the new high-speed trains)... from 2008/9 to 2013... there has been an adjustment in capacity and destinations... a "back to reality"... Norwegian is setting shop in 2014 with this new reality, and there are signs that the economy is rebounding.
So whether easyJet and Ryanair have been decreasing numbers in MAD does not mean that Norwegian cannot be successful.
Quoting VC10DC10 (Reply 23): Question for European A.netters: is the "Norwegian" brand an asset or a liability for non-Nordic routes?
I don't think it is a liability. Norwegian projects a cool yet rigorous image... that I think works well everywhere in Europe. Probably the main issue is that it is not that evident that you will fly a "Norwegian" carrier from MAD to WAW... but it is not much different than Alaska Airlines flying between LAX and MEX.
r2rho From Spain, joined Feb 2007, 3186 posts, RR: 1
Reply 26, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2247 times:
Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 25): So whether easyJet and Ryanair have been decreasing numbers in MAD does not mean that Norwegian cannot be successful.
Excellent summary of the past decade at MAD, couldn't have said it better. I agree that Norwegian is fully aware of the new reality at MAD, they have not based their business plan on 2007 boom figures. Time will tell, but I think they can take over the gap left by U2 when the economy rebounds. And in the short term they can take advantage of the fee reductions. Six routes is a moderate size base, they are not going all out crazy, it can be suistainable.