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New American/US Airways Fleet?  
User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4453 posts, RR: 5
Posted (8 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 18705 times:

Now that the DOJ lawsuit has gone the way of the dodo bird, we can get down to what the future holds for the "new" American Airlines. What exactly will their fleet look like? 737 Classic, 737NG, 737MAX, 757, 767, 777, 787, A320CEO, A320NEO, A350! Don't forget a few MD-80 series aircraft lingering on and the odd Embraer. Everything under the sun in the way of "modern" aviation will be taxing around the terminals of the new merged "American". A fleet almost as diverse as the country it is named after!

It would seem that one outside company that wins from this merger is Boeing. They had held sway with AA for quite some time but in the last round of orders, due to the shear magnitude, Airbus was able to place an extremely large number of A32X family jetliners firmly in "Boeing Country". A small crack in the chink of Boeing armor at AA by Airbus has somehow turned into a massive flood gate opening for Boeing. What a turn of events, as one of Airbus's largest "exclusive" customers in US Airways is now set for demise. Airbus had all but rendered Boeing aircraft obsolete at US Airways spare the few 737-400s still in operation alongside an extremely small fleet of 757s/767s.

With the merger, a burgeoning fleet of 737-800 and 737-Max series aircraft are now squarely operating in what was once "Airbus Dominated" pastures. No longer will the eye not see masses of 737s in Charlotte!!!! This in addition to an impressive fleet of 767/777/787 aircraft overshadowing the now smallish A330/A350 fleet. With 42 787s set to operate on behalf of AA, one has to wonder if the A350 order isn't modified to exclude the -800 or swapped for additional A32X aircraft.. It will also be interesting to see how brand new 777-300ERs are put to use on this route system.

Interesting times indeed!

[Edited 2013-11-12 19:41:14]


"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
92 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinephxa340 From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 877 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (8 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 18695 times:

The new AA will simply be too large and demand too many aircrafts to be reliant on one manufacturer. For the next 10-15 years the new AA fleet is really already set. MAX/NEO/350/787 plus their existing fleet. I don't really see the new AA ordering the 779 but definitely could eventually see some A35J in the fleet.

User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4453 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (8 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 18604 times:

How much of an increase in capacity would the 777-9X hold over the current 777-300ERs AA has on order? AA only has 2 of the birds on rotation and already we are discussing replacements!!!!

One has to wonder what fleet management will do with dual rated 777-200ER/300ER & 787 pilots. Almost a one stop shopt for long haul at AA! Very similar to what the 737NG/Max and A320CEO/NEO fleets will be like.



"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
User currently offlinejetsetterusa From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 92 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 18564 times:
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I was looking at the loads for the A321 for AA they have 10F 20C and 72Y will AA make $$ off LAX-JFK route? That seams like so little seats!

[Edited 2013-11-12 19:51:42]


AKA "Crazy Day Tripper" lets see PHX-COS, PHX-NRT,PHX-MSO
User currently offlinephxa340 From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 877 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (8 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 18531 times:

Quoting jetsetterusa (Reply 3):
10F 20C

Premium demand can pay for the flight, especially on that route.


User currently offlinewillzzz88 From United States of America, joined May 2011, 150 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 18505 times:

One simply needs to look at the A321 configuration difference between American and US Airways. US Airways packs them in (like UA/Delta on the 753) while AA has a more premium configuration:

US Airways:
http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/US_Airways/US_Airways_Airbus_A321.php
16F/171Y=187 total

AA new A321T:
10F/20C/36Y+/36Y=102 total

I do realize that the new AA A321 is entirely in a different market than US. The AA ones are for premium trans-con while US flies them on routes as long as PHL-LAX packing them in with volume.

Also I will note that AA will soon discover the cost and CASM efficiency of US'es A330 fleet (specifically the -300) as Delta has discovered (291 seats, 28C suites /263Y) in which when you can FILL the seats the A330 operating cost is less than the 777 because it has less range (which is perfect because you don't need the dead-weight on trans-Atlantic and South America flights, only the Pacific network is the extra range needed).

Actually with this merger AA gains the ultimate fleet that Delta has (both A330 and 777 like some European carriers).


User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4453 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (8 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 18453 times:

The load on the AA A321 does seem a little light for such a well traveled route. What does a current day AA 757 operate with?

One aircraft I really think will shine with the new AA is the 787-8. AA and US operate a massive fleet of 767 aircrat. With such a penchant for international flights in that seat category, the 787-8 or 787-9 could really clean house at AA and make the new carrier plenty $$$.



"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
User currently offlinetortugamon From United States of America, joined Apr 2013, 3369 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (8 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 18429 times:

If this merger goes through the A358 implications are interesting. An order modification seems likely.

A351 or 779 seems likely. Their 77Ws are 10 abreast in Y and 9 abreast in Y+ and won't need replacing for 25 years  

tortugamon


User currently offlinerj777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1773 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (8 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 18335 times:

Quoting CX747 (Thread starter):
Now that the DOJ lawsuit has gone the way of the dodo bird,

I love that......... the DOJ sure was a dumb Dodo for opposing this merger in the first place! Anyway, back on topic........ I do think that the 779 is likely.


User currently offlineTheRedBaron From Mexico, joined Mar 2005, 2189 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (8 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 18315 times:

We are heading to a new blood bath on domestic flights , if onyone thinks that Jetblue, Southwest, Delta and United will just sit and see a gigantic AA have a large share of the market without a fight, is just delusional.

AA is so big that they will order aircraft in big orders from both A and B.

Its a pity because the domestic industry seemed like growing again and now this big merger will turn the scales...

I already have plenty of popcorn...

TRB



The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
User currently offlineNYCAAer From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 692 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (8 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 18078 times:

The original order plans for the 787 was for 42 787-9s and 58 options. Then the order was changed to 22 787-8s and 20 787-9s, plus options for 58 of any model, so we'll see.

User currently offlineYULWinterSkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2176 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (8 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 18021 times:

Quoting CX747 (Thread starter):
What exactly will their fleet look like? 737 Classic, 737NG, 737MAX, 757, 767, 777, 787, A320CEO, A320NEO, A350!

And the A330 that will probably stick around for quite some time.

In fact, their fleet is going to be quite similar to DL's and UA's (in the big picture of things), in the sense that it will have most modern airliner families in large numbers, without having more than one major family totally omitted (excl. VLA).



When I doubt... go running!
User currently offlinearielwar From United States of America, joined Aug 2013, 112 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 18010 times:

I believe US is replacing their 767s with A330s, and their 737s are being phase out already with new airbus. I think we might see an order to replace the old airbuses in US fleet.

User currently offlineoc2dc From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 360 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 17906 times:

I'm more curious about how fast AA/US will be able to retire the fleet of 767-200s as well as the 737-400 fleet. Both of those types are incredibly outdated and need to see an accelerated departure. However, I do wonder if AA will have enough lift when they retire all those aircraft. Does anybody have any details about retirement of aircraft on the US side?

I can't wait to see the cross-fleeting begin. I would love to see some A330's at LAX, ORD, JFK, MIA and DFW.



I'm not complaining, I'm critiquing...
User currently offlinejetsetterusa From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 92 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 17801 times:
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Quoting oc2dc (Reply 13):
I'm more curious about how fast AA/US will be able to retire the fleet of 767-200s as well as the 737-400 fleet. Both of those types are incredibly outdated and need to see an accelerated departure. However, I do wonder if AA will have enough lift when they retire all those aircraft. Does anybody have any details about retirement of aircraft on the US side?

i don't know about the 762s but the 737 should be gone by 2014 i think! but since AA-US is merging we will still see 737s :p



AKA "Crazy Day Tripper" lets see PHX-COS, PHX-NRT,PHX-MSO
User currently offlineiFlyLOTs From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 438 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 17716 times:

Quoting CX747 (Reply 2):
AA only has 2 of the birds on rotation and already we are discussing replacements!!!!

Okay, the AA website says they have two, Boeing says they have 7 and then the new painted aircraft thread list says that they have 9... which is correct?

Sources:
AA's site

Boeing's site

New AA Painted Aircraft - Part 3



"...stay hungry, stay foolish" -Steve Jobs
User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 2905 posts, RR: 20
Reply 16, posted (8 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 17717 times:

Quoting jetsetterusa (Reply 14):
i don't know about the 762s but the 737 should be gone by 2014 i think! but since AA-US is merging we will still see 737s

In 2014 US Airways will take delivery of 3 x A330-200's and 17 A321's while retiring 14 734's, 4 older A320's and 3 x 762's. If anything the merger will mean the remaining 762's get retired quicker especially as AA will be able to free up some of their 763 fleet from domestic flying as the new transcon A321's are delivered.


User currently offlineckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5155 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (8 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 17635 times:

Quoting willzzz88 (Reply 5):
Also I will note that AA will soon discover the cost and CASM efficiency of US'es A330 fleet (specifically the -300) as Delta has discovered (291 seats, 28C suites /263Y) in which when you can FILL the seats the A330 operating cost is less than the 777 because it has less range (which is perfect because you don't need the dead-weight on trans-Atlantic and South America flights, only the Pacific network is the extra range needed).

But, what is the cargo capacity of the A330 fleet, as it compares to the 777s? Remember that AA Cargo does contribute a fairly substantial amount of revenue. I've sat on 738s during boarding and watched a large amount of mail and cargo go into the hold. One would expect that the amount of cargo traveling in a 777 from ORD, MIA, and JFK to Europe and South America is quite substantial.

Quoting CX747 (Reply 6):
The load on the AA A321 does seem a little light for such a well traveled route. What does a current day AA 757 operate with?

Remember that the initial A321s will have the 3-class configuration for trans-con service that has demand for premium seats. Later on, AA will get A321s with configurations more like the 757-200s that will leave the fleet over time. AA carries a number of people affiliated with the entertainment industry and financial services, and they are paying for F and J seats.

IIRC, 757s with the older cabin is 22F and 166Y, while the new cabin has 2 extra F seats. The A321s will have the same number of Y seats, but I think it's only 16 in First.


User currently offline817Dreamliiner From Montserrat, joined Jul 2008, 2175 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (8 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 17511 times:

Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 15):
Okay, the AA website says they have two, Boeing says they have 7 and then the new painted aircraft thread list says that they have 9... which is correct?

9 is the correct number:

http://www.planespotters.net/Product...e=777-300&fleet=5432&fleetStatus=1



Reality be Rent. Synapse, break! Vanishment, This World!
User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 26
Reply 19, posted (8 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 17234 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 15):
Okay, the AA website says they have two, Boeing says they have 7 and then the new painted aircraft thread list says that they have 9... which is correct?

I stand corrected, but from what I know it is 9 frames. The registration numbers and delivery dates:

N717AN 11.11.2012
N718AN 19.12.2012
N719AN 28.01.2013
N720AN 20.02.2013
N721AN 19.03.2013
N722AN 25.04.2013
N723AN 28.05.2013
N724AN 26.06.2013
N725AN 31.07.2013


Regards,

SA7700



When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
User currently offlineKaran69 From India, joined Oct 2004, 2882 posts, RR: 18
Reply 20, posted (8 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 17042 times:

I have a few questions

Is the 130 aircraft order for the 320 Ceo family split evenly between the 319 and the 321 ?

have AA anounced a 321 cabin config for their non premium 321s?

Would the merged entity have a standard cabin, as in IFE with PTV on each seat,? because as far as i know US airways stripped down all forms of IFE from even their transcon 321s


My take on the fleet is

319/738/321 and their Neo and MAX counterparts for their entire domestic ops

763/332 to be eventually replaced by 788/789

333/77E to be eventually replaced by 359

77W...too new a procument to comment on

I think this mix keeps both A and B happy, which is necessary as the manufacturers are financing a part of their fleet renewal plans

Karan


User currently offlineCandid76 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 733 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (8 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 16880 times:

Just one point - isn't US the driving force here? Just because AA is the larger of the two carriers does not mean that Boeing automatically wins if the ultimate leadership of the merged airline pulling the strings is from US. I think CX747 may be jumping the gun here. Of course any good management will weigh up the options from all manufacturers rather than committing to orders on the basis of historical preferences - look at JAL for example.

User currently offlinemhkansan From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 662 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (8 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 16855 times:

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 20):
My take on the fleet is

319/738/321 and their Neo and MAX counterparts for their entire domestic ops

763/332 to be eventually replaced by 788/789

333/77E to be eventually replaced by 359

77W...too new a procument to comment on

I think this mix keeps both A and B happy, which is necessary as the manufacturers are financing a part of their fleet renewal plans

AA and US both have a unique niche for their long range 757s. MIA-ASU, MIA-LPB-VVI-MIA, PHL/CLT-LIS, ect. No NEO / MAX is going to fly those routes and the 763/788 seems to me like too much airplane. Where's the new small medium range jet?


User currently onlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12284 posts, RR: 47
Reply 23, posted (8 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 16840 times:
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Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 15):
Okay, the AA website says they have two, Boeing says they have 7 and then the new painted aircraft thread list says that they have 9... which is correct?

I don't know where you're looking on Boeing's site, but when I checked, it shows 9 delivered.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlinearielwar From United States of America, joined Aug 2013, 112 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 16605 times:

Which 757s are younger AA or US?

User currently offlineMIflyer12 From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 945 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (8 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 17414 times:

AA has a lot more 757-200s, and on average theirs are slightly newer: 93 aircraft entering service 1989-2002 in fairly steady progression; US, 24 aircraft in service 1985-2001. They have plenty of time to focus the newest 757s on high performance routes that preclude early spec NEOs and MAXs

User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 26
Reply 26, posted (8 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 17299 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

Quoting arielwar (Reply 24):
Which 757s are younger AA or US?

From what I can see on external websites it is quite diverse and I do stand corrected.  

US' first frame (N901AW) was delivered to then Republic Airlines on 19.12.1985. Their youngest frame is N207UW which was delivered to North American Airlines on 03.06.2001.

American's first frame (N613AA) was delivered on 11.08.1989. Their youngest frame is N172AJ which was delivered to American on 30.04.2002

N901AW - 27.9 years
N207UW - 15.5 years
N613AA - 24.3 years
N172AJ - 11.6 years

Regards,

SA7700

[Edited 2013-11-13 05:14:03]


When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
User currently offlinebobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6434 posts, RR: 9
Reply 27, posted (8 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 17566 times:

Quoting ckfred (Reply 17):
One would expect that the amount of cargo traveling in a 777 from ORD, MIA, and JFK to Europe and South America is quite substantial.


You are right, it is subtantial but as far as I know,the larger majority of cargo flows from Europe and South America to the US. The same with Tpac freight. While off the subject slightly, the same holds true for passenger traffic. the majority originates from Europe, South America and Asia


User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4453 posts, RR: 5
Reply 28, posted (8 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 17546 times:

Quoting Candid76 (Reply 21):

US might have been the driving force of the merger but the sheer size of American's pre-merger fleet when compared to US Airway's fleet is amazing. As others have posted, the new fleet will need to be supplied by two manufacturers. That right there is a win for Boeing. US Airways as a stand alone carrier wasn't ordering any Washington/South Carolina State products. Now that fleet of homogenious A32X/A330 family aircraft is coming to an end.

With the merger, the "new" fleet of narrowbodies will go from 95% Airbus at US Airways to almost 50/50 Boeing/Airbus fleet between the 737NG/MAX and A320CEO/NEO. We also need to see what place the 757 has in the new fleet with the advent of the A321. Also, the pre-merger US Airways (PMUS) A320 fleet is older than the pre-merger American (PMA) 737NG fleet. So we may see PMUS A320s being replaced by 737MAX or even 737NG products if timing falls that way.

The widebody fleet of US Airways was predominately A330s with a small stable of 767-200ERs. Now the "majority" A330 fleet of US Airways will be the "small" stable when compared to the overall number of 767/777/787 series aircraft that are inbound. With the 787 set to numerically replace the 767, that Boeing majority should be firm. As has been rumored before, the pre-merger order for A350-800s may even be changed. Maybe they go all -900 or even swap out for narrowbodies to replace the older A32Xs in the fleet. The 777-300ER wasn't even a factor in the PMUS but now serves as the "Flagship" in a ever increasing number. The 77W fleet as it is stands at almost 50% of what the entire PMUS Airbus widebody fleet rested at come 11/13/2013.



"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
User currently offlineboeing773ER From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 414 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (8 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 17369 times:

Quoting CX747 (Reply 28):

I don't think it's gonna be around 50/50 between the two manufactures. It's certainly going to be a predominately Airbus fleet, with all the A320s that US is bringing, plus AA has more A320s on order than the 737s, (260 firm with an option for over 400 for Airbus, and 200 firm and 200 options from Boeing) Once the 767/757/MD80s are retired airbus will be the largest for the new airline, especially if they excerise those options.

But the way American aviation is going, there is no way the carriers can depend on just one manufacturer.



Work Hard, Fly Right.
User currently offlineDTWPurserBoy From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 1503 posts, RR: 7
Reply 30, posted (8 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 17234 times:

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 4):
Premium demand can pay for the flight, especially on that route.

This could well be true if the people in the premium cabins passengers were actually parting with cash for the seats instead of using free upgrades. My guess is that most airlines would consider that breakdown as proprietary information and would never divulge it but just from casual gate observation I believe that the vast majority in domestic premium cabins are doing so in exchange for mileage or frequent flyer status.

This merger could pose some interesting logistical questions for DL and UA. Both seem to have taken a "wait and see" attitude towards this newest marriage. I am wondering if this will force them (especially DL) to make an immediate decision on long-range fleet replacements in order to hold manufacturing slots. I recall in the past when some carriers had a virtual lock on line positions for a year or more at a time. DL has publicly said they would be needing a 744 replacement and probably a 763 replacement as well. Locking in a type and a cost now might be beneficial.

My next question--with the majors all locked up will we see the creation of mega-LCC's like B6/WN or B6/Spirit along with the demise of some of the juicier tidbits like Alaska and HA. Stay tuned.

At what point do the talking heads on television start talking about "too big to merge?" There are already rumblings about the cost of airfares rapidly rising due to decreased competition.



Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7139 posts, RR: 17
Reply 31, posted (8 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 16935 times:

I don't see this new airline ordering any new airframes any time soon. But I can't wait to see the A330s in that awesome AA livery 


One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4453 posts, RR: 5
Reply 32, posted (8 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 16834 times:

One thing that is forgotten in most of the merger talk is the massive number of American 737NG frames the carrier operates, had on order and placed additional orders for. Overall, the number of 737NGs will outnumber the A319/320 series in the new American. I ran some numbers. I know it doesn't take into effect some retirements but in a nutshell.

Boeing Narrowbodies=520

305 737-800s
100 737-Max
115 757-200

Airbus Narrowbodies=516

228 A319/320
158 A321-200CEO
130 A321-200NEO

Boeing Widebodies=188

79 767-200/300
47 777-200ER
20 777-300ER
12 787-8
30 787-9

Airbus Widebodies=46

15 A330-200
9 A330-300
18 A350-800
4 A350-900



Now, those numbers are hard to predict because the comings and goings of the fleet will fluctuate. We also do not know how the new carrier will readjust retirement dates (forward/backward). As for exercising options, that is anyone's guess.



"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
User currently offlineseemyseems From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2009, 967 posts, RR: 7
Reply 33, posted (8 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 16604 times:

It will be a shame to see the US livery go, I much prefer it to the new AA livery


seemyseems
User currently offlineWesternA318 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 5647 posts, RR: 24
Reply 34, posted (8 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 16446 times:

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 30):

This could well be true if the people in the premium cabins passengers were actually parting with cash for the seats instead of using free upgrades. My guess is that most airlines would consider that breakdown as proprietary information and would never divulge it but just from casual gate observation I believe that the vast majority in domestic premium cabins are doing so in exchange for mileage or frequent flyer status.

Except on the early AM JFK-LAX flights...those suckers are LOADED with Expense Account purchases in J and F classes.



Next trip: SLC-LAX-JFK-LAX-SLC on AA, gotta say goodbye to my beloved 762!
User currently offlinetortugamon From United States of America, joined Apr 2013, 3369 posts, RR: 10
Reply 35, posted (8 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 16401 times:

The A330/77E replacement is going to be an interesting order when it comes down the road. Looking at AA/US's route structure and their order book the 787-10 makes a lot of sense. They do have some longer routes like ORD-PVG and PHL-TLV but by and large their longest routes are using partner's metal and the vast majority of the routes that they operate are under 11 hours.

If they order the -10 then the A359 does not make a lot of sense and the market for the A351 is recently being filled with the 77Ws. However, on some of the longer routes if they do have cargo opportunities and they don't have the demand for a 77W (PHL-TLV for example) the A359 is clearly the better option.

tortugamon


User currently offlinerj777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1773 posts, RR: 2
Reply 36, posted (8 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 16355 times:

I wonder if any new US deliveries in 2014 (since the merger is closing in 2013) will be in the AA colors?

User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4036 posts, RR: 8
Reply 37, posted (8 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 16300 times:

Quoting boeing773ER (Reply 29):
I don't think it's gonna be around 50/50 between the two manufactures. It's certainly going to be a predominately Airbus fleet, with all the A320s that US is bringing, plus AA has more A320s on order than the 737s, (260 firm with an option for over 400 for Airbus, and 200 firm and 200 options from Boeing) Once the 767/757/MD80s are retired airbus will be the largest for the new airline, especially if they excerise those options.

The way things are boiling down, the fleet will be heavily Airbus domestically and Boeing international.


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3705 posts, RR: 2
Reply 38, posted (8 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 16244 times:

Quoting CX747 (Reply 32):
Boeing Narrowbodies=520

305 737-800s
100 737-Max
115 757-200

Most of the 757s will be replaced by A321s (both CEO and NEO) - IIRC, PMAA wanted to cut down the 757 fleet to 36 frames. With the addition of the PMUS birds, that number will probably increase by a bit.

Quoting CX747 (Reply 32):
Airbus Narrowbodies=516

228 A319/320
158 A321-200CEO
130 A321-200NEO

Seems about right.

Quoting CX747 (Reply 32):
Boeing Widebodies=188

79 767-200/300
47 777-200ER
20 777-300ER
12 787-8
30 787-9

Actually, it's 22 787-8s and 20 -9s.

Quoting CX747 (Reply 32):
Airbus Widebodies=46

15 A330-200
9 A330-300
18 A350-800
4 A350-900

I suspect that the A350s will either go to 100% -900s or swapped for more A319s (CEO, NEO, or a mix depending on the Airbus order books) to accelerate the MD-80 retirements.



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlinecschleic From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 1246 posts, RR: 0
Reply 39, posted (8 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 16127 times:

Quoting rj777 (Reply 8):
Quoting CX747 (Thread starter):
Now that the DOJ lawsuit has gone the way of the dodo bird,

I love that......... the DOJ sure was a dumb Dodo for opposing this merger in the first place! Anyway, back on topic........ I do think that the 779 is likely.

Part of it was due to domination of some airports, such as DCA, where they would have controlled 70% of the traffic. That isn't good for competition or customers, resulting in one thing....higher prices. Everyone may get excited about the mergers and plane orders and all, but they drive fewer customer choices and increased airline pricing power.


User currently offline817Dreamliiner From Montserrat, joined Jul 2008, 2175 posts, RR: 1
Reply 40, posted (8 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 16185 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 38):
Actually, it's 22 787-8s and 20 -9s.

Its 12 787-8s and 30 787-9s.

American Airlines (USA)
787-8 GE 01-Feb-2013 12 - 12 -
787-9 GE 01-Feb-2013 30 - 30 -
Subtotal 42 - 42

Taken from Boeings website.



Reality be Rent. Synapse, break! Vanishment, This World!
User currently offlineNYCAAer From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 692 posts, RR: 3
Reply 41, posted (8 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 15877 times:

Quoting ckfred (Reply 17):
One would expect that the amount of cargo traveling in a 777 from ORD, MIA, and JFK to Europe and South America is quite substantial.

It is, I don't know about ORD, but JFK and MIA have huge amounts of cargo. AA is the number one mover of cargo at JFK, more than FedEx and carrying far more than DL. AA has been thrilled with the extra amount of cargo that can be carried on the 77Ws at JFK. Besides GRU and LHR on the 77Ws, other huge cargo markets for AA at JFK are EZE, CDG and MXP.


User currently offlineckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5155 posts, RR: 1
Reply 42, posted (8 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 15772 times:

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 30):
Quoting phxa340 (Reply 4):
Premium demand can pay for the flight, especially on that route.

This could well be true if the people in the premium cabins passengers were actually parting with cash for the seats instead of using free upgrades. My guess is that most airlines would consider that breakdown as proprietary information and would never divulge it but just from casual gate observation I believe that the vast majority in domestic premium cabins are doing so in exchange for mileage or frequent flyer status.

Unlike the typical route (mainline or Eagle), AA has a few routes where premium seats are booked without miles or upgrades. Out of JFK, it's LAX and SFO. Compared to most routes out of ORD, LGA and LAX also see higher numbers of first class seats that are paid for, rather than reserved with miles or upgrades.

This was a while back, but my wife and I got bumped off an LAS-ORD non-stop, and were rerouted via LAX. We got upgraded on LAS-LAX, but not on LAX-ORD. The agent said that First was full. Yet, when we pushed back at LAX, my wife counted 6 empty seats in First (and that was back when the 738s had 20 seats in First).

I mentioned this to a friend of mine who is an AA pilot. He said that unlike most routes, people in Los Angeles will double and triple-book seats in First to Chicago and New York.

The reason that AA kept the 762 fleet in 3-class configurations is that sells a lot of F and J seats. It flies a lot of celbrities and movie/recording executives. It's the same reason why AA has 2 daily non-stops between LAX and BNA, the music business.


User currently offlineMarkam From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 441 posts, RR: 1
Reply 43, posted (8 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 15054 times:

Quoting CX747 (Thread starter):
It would seem that one outside company that wins from this merger is Boeing. They had held sway with AA for quite some time but in the last round of orders, due to the shear magnitude, Airbus was able to place an extremely large number of A32X family jetliners firmly in "Boeing Country". A small crack in the chink of Boeing armor at AA by Airbus has somehow turned into a massive flood gate opening for Boeing. What a turn of events, as one of Airbus's largest "exclusive" customers in US Airways is now set for demise. Airbus had all but rendered Boeing aircraft obsolete at US Airways spare the few 737-400s still in operation alongside an extremely small fleet of 757s/767s.

With the merger, a burgeoning fleet of 737-800 and 737-Max series aircraft are now squarely operating in what was once "Airbus Dominated" pastures.

You see the glass half-full for Boeing, and there is nothing wrong with that, but you do realize that it is also very easy to see it half-empy, right? After all AA, an airline which a few years ago was all-B will now be 50/50 A/B (on a frame count basis, once you take into account the ∼100 Boeing frames that are scheduled to be retired at both AA & US) and will be in the hands of a management team which in the past has showed a marked pro-Airbus preference when ordering aircraft. I am not so sure the guys in Seattle (Chicago?) are popping champagne bottles!   


User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4228 posts, RR: 6
Reply 44, posted (8 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 14929 times:

There is no question that domestically, the fleet is going to be 737's and Airbus 320 going forward, with some E190s as well. I think the use of the 757 on domestic flights outside of Hawaii is going to be very limited going forward. The question I have is will US/AA adopt the former AA strategy of segregating AC type by hubs? For example, the 737's would be primarily based out of MIA, DFW, and ORD, the Airbus' would be primarily LGA, PHL, CLT, PHX, DFW and LAX based? The fleets may just be too big for that now, but it is something worth watching.

As for Widebodies, I believe much of what happens here depends on how AA wants to play Asia going forward. Given that they are launching PVG and HKG from DFW, these could be idea routes for a 787 if the 777 proves to be too much capactiy. Since we all expect PHL-NRT to be launched, I suspect this will also be a 787. As for the A330's, I could easily see the A330 replacing the 777 on some european routes currently flown by AA. The A330 presence will also allow the 767 to be streamlined, thus you will see them begin to be limited to JFK and PHL in the long term as I do see A330 capacity in ORD replacing some existing 767 traffic there. I don't know exactly how it will play out though.

One last thing I wanted to talk about is the Eagle/Express fleet. After the new deal with PSA that US just signed, the two biggest 50 seat operators post merger are Air Wisconsin and Eagle. Air Wisconsin is still around until at least 2015, and they recently posted some of their best operating numbers in their entire history of flying for USAirways. There won't be a big need for 50 seat lift but there will be some, and if AA is unable to spin off eagle, it will be much easier to park MQ 50 seaters than it will be to park ZW 50 seaters. So I think this merger is good for ZW long term as realistically holding onto the current flying is really the only chance they have to remain viable long term. That being said, I don't know how many 50 seaters AA will want going forward. It certainly won't be a repeat of what you are seeing with UA and their own 50 seaters. The only other question going forward though is with the 76 seat flying. AA has premerger deals with Republic for this, and Republic's relationship with US goes back to their bankruptcy. Mesa just upped a deal to extend the 900 flying, so they are secure for a while. However, by PSA ratifying their agreement, and MQ telling AA to pound sand, the PSA pilots have put themselves in a better position to win bigger jets, though AA clearly wants to give bigger jets to MQ as well. With all that said, here is how I see it by hub in the future.

DFW - Its mainly a mainline station, so I don't expect E Jets to show up, but I would expect some of the Mesa 900 flying to be moved here, as the B terminal is perfect for them. Aside from that, I suspect this will be pretty status quo.

ORD - You are already seeing republic EJets here. One of the interesting things here is that Shuttle America operates 170's for UA and DL here. The reason this is important is because of the way Republic is set up, you have two different certificates in one city, and because crews are limited to one certificate, they lose flexibility in how they schedule crews here. If this hasn't been raised by IBT in negotiations, it should be. That being said, I suspect post merger that AA will be more aggressive here. What that means exactly I do not know, but I suspect you will see bigger RJ's in here, and the MQ 50 seat fleet will be cut here.

PHL - There is a ton of money being spent at the moment on F concourse upgrades, which means that express will be an important factor here going forward. This is ZW's biggest hub, but if AA wants to shift JFK traffic to PHL for international purposes, they could need bigger planes to do so. The other question here is the Dash-8s and their future? There are markets that won't work without them.

CLT - This is an airport that is near saturation in terms of gate space and utilization by USAirways. The changes here won't be in frequency, but capacity. What will free up a bit of capacity will be AA shifting Caribbean traffic to MIA where it makes more sense. But this hub will serve a role no other hub in the system can. What happens with the PSA fleet will determine what happens here because this is PSA's biggest hub.

MIA - Nothing will change here at all

JFK/LGA - AA is giving up a few slots in LGA, and I suspect the cut routes will be some PHL frequency where so many slots are squatted on. This will give AA a chance to maintain some O and D to key places from LGA, and also allow them to sustain their O and D international traffic at JFK. They won't be the biggest player in NYC, but they will still compete, because there is too much market share and NYC does have a FF base, and they need to win contracts too. As for JFK, you may see a small presence to some markets to feed a bit of traffic at JFK, but I suspect aside from hub flying and beyond perimeter, most of the other flying will focus at LGA. I suspect Air Wisconsin will end up with more LGA flying as a result since they already have a domicile there. This is a place where Eagle flying can be cut without harming the overall network.

PHX - This is another mainline dominant station. While current service will be maintained, I do believe you are going to see E Jets start creeping into T4 in the future. I don't believe PHX will be dehubbed, but there will be a bit of capacity reduction.


User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4453 posts, RR: 5
Reply 45, posted (8 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 12579 times:

Quoting Markam (Reply 43):
You see the glass half-full for Boeing, and there is nothing wrong with that, but you do realize that it is also very easy to see it half-empy, right? After all AA, an airline which a few years ago was all-B will now be 50/50 A/B (on a frame count basis, once you take into account the ∼100 Boeing frames that are scheduled to be retired at both AA & US) and will be in the hands of a management team which in the past has showed a marked pro-Airbus preference when ordering aircraft. I am not so sure the guys in Seattle (Chicago?) are popping champagne bottles!

The glass is always either half full or empty. Personally, I'd like another round on the house!

Boeing lost its grip on AA. Airbus got a chip in the AA game. Airbus had USA in lock step as in no chance for Boeing. That's a winning scenario for Airbus. With the merger, a lock in step carrier has now bitten the dust and Airbus's "foot in the door" has been changed to a very different fleet scenario. The new AA may even reduce the number of aircraft inbound as they deal with the gate/slot changes.

Overall, the new carrier will operate a narrowbody fleet that is 46% Boeing, while the widebody fleet will have 80% Boeing. That is a far cry from what Airbus was looking at only a few months ago. The new carrier looks to have a fleet represented by Airbus at 47% and Boeing at 53%.



"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
User currently offlineAA1818 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Feb 2006, 3429 posts, RR: 4
Reply 46, posted (8 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 12414 times:

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 1):
The new AA will simply be too large and demand too many aircrafts to be reliant on one manufacturer. For the next 10-15 years the new AA fleet is really already set. MAX/NEO/350/787 plus their existing fleet. I don't really see the new AA ordering the 779 but definitely could eventually see some A35J in the fleet.

I think that the new AA could do without the A350- I just don't see the need. The A330 fleet will stay, and may even grow, the 787 fleet will be massive and i expect more 77Ws.

I could see A20/737 for narrowbodies with the NEO and MAX replacing.
No real replacement for the 757 yet- I'm not sure A or B will ever have a true replacement.
767s will be replaced by 788s.
A330s will remain for a while.
77Es can be replaced by a combination of 789s and 77Ws and perhaps more A330s.
77Ws will eventually be replaced by the Boeing 778X or -9X.

That's my take on the new carrier's fleet.

AA1818



“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
User currently offlineJAAlbert From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1542 posts, RR: 1
Reply 47, posted (8 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 12136 times:

So once AA and US finally merge, will the airline rationalize cabin interiors among the fleet? AA's seats are different than those of US, especially the premium seats. I hope the new AA doesn't redo just the premium cabins and leave the Y class looking like the baggage hold.

User currently offlineAVLAirlineFreq From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 1011 posts, RR: 0
Reply 48, posted (8 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 12061 times:

Quoting apodino (Reply 44):
PHL - There is a ton of money being spent at the moment on F concourse upgrades, which means that express will be an important factor here going forward. This is ZW's biggest hub, but if AA wants to shift JFK traffic to PHL for international purposes, they could need bigger planes to do so. The other question here is the Dash-8s and their future? There are markets that won't work without them.

CLT - What happens with the PSA fleet will determine what happens here because this is PSA's biggest hub.

The future of the Dash 8 fleet is a really interesting question for US/AA.


User currently offlineMIflyer12 From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 945 posts, RR: 0
Reply 49, posted (8 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 12017 times:

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 47):
So once AA and US finally merge, will the airline rationalize cabin interiors among the fleet? AA's seats are different than those of US, especially the premium seats.

I doubt it frankly, for coach cabins. Delta was quick to repaint, to apply blue leather seat covers, and to install wifi, but lots and lots of old seats remain. (Yes, there are exceptions but I don't want to list fifteen types.) AA has a lot of new aircraft coming but it may be a while before they settle on a consistment brand standard even on new deliveries.


User currently offlineNYCAAer From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 692 posts, RR: 3
Reply 50, posted (8 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 11891 times:

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 46):
i expect more 77Ws.

I don't think so, it's a very large aircraft that only works in a few AA markets. I expect more 787s/A350s will be the widebodies of choice going forward.


User currently offlinearielwar From United States of America, joined Aug 2013, 112 posts, RR: 0
Reply 51, posted (8 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 10199 times:

Do you guys think we might see a new plane order to replace some of the old US airbuses?

User currently offlinetortugamon From United States of America, joined Apr 2013, 3369 posts, RR: 10
Reply 52, posted (8 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 9988 times:

Quoting arielwar (Reply 51):
Do you guys think we might see a new plane order to replace some of the old US airbuses?

I don't think there will be any significant orders for a number of years. Past mergers have had difficulty with realizing savings quickly and have been a drain on cash until the kinks are worked out. If anything their capacity will shrink in the near term because of some of these relinquished slots and any duplicates. All of this and AA already has a tremendous amount of aircraft on order.

tortugamon


User currently offlineSooner787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2013, 197 posts, RR: 0
Reply 53, posted (8 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 9752 times:

Quoting arielwar (Reply 51):
Do you guys think we might see a new plane order to replace some of the old US airbuses?

I thought that the New AA A320 ceo's were 5-6 yr leases until the NEO's were delivered.

I'm thinking instead if trading those frames in that they keep them around to replace

the older pmUS A320's

[Edited 2013-11-13 15:02:07]

User currently offlineyyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16239 posts, RR: 56
Reply 54, posted (8 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 9377 times:

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 20):
Is the 130 aircraft order for the 320 Ceo family split evenly between the 319 and the 321 ?

Current ceo orders for AA have grown and are:
69x 319 (14 delivered)
80x 321.

total 149.

Source atdb.org



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineQFVHOQA From Australia, joined Mar 2012, 408 posts, RR: 0
Reply 55, posted (8 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 9250 times:

Interesting analysis in Leeham News about the impact of the merger on OEMsThe implications of the American-US Airways merger for OEMs

I don't see much room for an A358 in the combined fleet, so maybe US/AA could convert these to A330s? The new regional A333 even?


User currently offlinesilentbob From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2033 posts, RR: 1
Reply 56, posted (8 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 8680 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 38):
I suspect that the A350s will either go to 100% -900s or swapped for more A319s (CEO, NEO, or a mix depending on the Airbus order books) to accelerate the MD-80 retirements.

I don't think there will be any additional A319 orders and they may even try to get some of the existing orders changed to 320s. US already has a large number of 319s and has upgraded all existing orders to larger aircraft. It won't be terribly long until they can shuffle the aircraft around the system as needed.

Quoting apodino (Reply 44):
The other question here is the Dash-8s and their future?
Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 48):
The future of the Dash 8 fleet is a really interesting question for US/AA.

They're toast. They can barely keep them flying and staffed. I fully expect to hear something regarding the future of the Dashes within the next couple months.


User currently offlinesilentbob From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2033 posts, RR: 1
Reply 57, posted (8 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 8659 times:

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 55):
I don't see much room for an A358 in the combined fleet, so maybe US/AA could convert these to A330s? The new regional A333 even?

If I recall, Airbus gave US the same pricing on the A358 that they offered on the original version of the A350. If so, it may make more financial sense to take them. Ideally, I think they would like to upgrade them to the A359, but that may not be a reasonable option.


User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4408 posts, RR: 6
Reply 58, posted (8 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 7392 times:

Quoting Markam (Reply 43):
AA, an airline which a few years ago was all-B will now be 50/50 A/B

Are you forgetting the A300's?


User currently offlineCIDFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2269 posts, RR: 3
Reply 59, posted (8 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 7049 times:

somewhat on topic....when can we expect to see some of US's Planes in the American livery? Can't wait to see an A330!

User currently offlineLDVAviation From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 1033 posts, RR: 5
Reply 60, posted (8 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 7016 times:

Quoting Markam (Reply 43):
You see the glass half-full for Boeing, and there is nothing wrong with that, but you do realize that it is also very easy to see it half-empy, right? After all AA, an airline which a few years ago was all-B will now be 50/50 A/B (on a frame count basis, once you take into account the ∼100 Boeing frames that are scheduled to be retired at both AA & US) and will be in the hands of a management team which in the past has showed a marked pro-Airbus preference when ordering aircraft. I am not so sure the guys in Seattle (Chicago?) are popping champagne bottles!

Here is the rub. Boeing is a member of AA's creditor's committee. (It got to vote on the POR.)

With that leverage, Boeing could have easily secured some assurances from Parker about current orders and future options.


User currently offlinearielwar From United States of America, joined Aug 2013, 112 posts, RR: 0
Reply 61, posted (8 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6868 times:

One of the members of the new board of directors is a long time Boeing executive.

User currently offlineKD5MDK From United States of America, joined Mar 2013, 293 posts, RR: 0
Reply 62, posted (8 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6604 times:

Quoting silentbob (Reply 57):
If I recall, Airbus gave US the same pricing on the A358 that they offered on the original version of the A350. If so, it may make more financial sense to take them. Ideally, I think they would like to upgrade them to the A359, but that may not be a reasonable option.

Good cheap planes would be very hard to pass up. On the other hand, people here have been spitballing that Airbus might want to cancel the A358 entirely and sell people A359s.

All orders sourced from Wikipedia:
The US order is a significant portion of the 89 remaining. (18)
Kingfisher seems unlikely to take the 5 they have listed (5)
Alitalia is in trouble. (12)
Aeroflot has 18 on order and only 4 A359s. (18)

That's 53 orders that could be redirected with a limited number of negotiations or 60% of the order book.

On the other hand, Airbus may think that having the next generation wide body in the AA fleet is a valuable feature in its own right, instead of offering A359s or A333s.


User currently offlinecrAAzy From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 767 posts, RR: 0
Reply 63, posted (8 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6428 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting silentbob (Reply 56):

I don't think there will be any additional A319 orders and they may even try to get some of the existing orders changed to 320s.

Incorrect.

At this stage, they will not and cannot decrease their A319 orders that are firm without penalty.

Additionally, with the sheer numbers of 738s in the AA fleet and coming in there will be no A320s conversions from this order as the 738 is a superior aircraft in the class.


User currently offlinecrj900lr From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 313 posts, RR: 0
Reply 64, posted (8 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6396 times:

Quoting apodino (Reply 44):
Air Wisconsin is still around until at least 2015, and they recently posted some of their best operating numbers in their entire history of flying for USAirways.

Its a little to late for this. The damage has already been done by ZW.

I believe that ZW got an extension of their contract, from what we were told, for 20-25 aircraft for 60 days after the original contract was supposed to expire to bridge the gap for schedule adjustments and the transition of flying to other carriers in the network.

The 50 seaters will be eliminated at a good rate as Parker has repeatedly said he wants to reduce the number of them. The DASH-8 will also go unless they are going to take the option of extending the life of them but is it worth the cost and how much of an extension are we really going to get?

Oh and if you ever go through the F terminal in PHL and are checking out the new food court avoid Tony Luke's. Probably the worst cheese steak I have ever had when I was recently through there!

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 48):
The future of the Dash 8 fleet is a really interesting question for US/AA.

Look for a possible deal with Silver Airways flying Saabs on some of the routes the DASH currently flys, but can't support a 50 or 76 seat jet, if they do not extend the life of the DASH-8's.


User currently offlineVCy From Cyprus, joined Dec 2012, 236 posts, RR: 0
Reply 65, posted (8 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6390 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Could we see the a380 now?

User currently offlineallegro From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 236 posts, RR: 1
Reply 66, posted (8 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6317 times:

Quoting VCy (Reply 65):
Quoting VCy (Reply 65):
Could we see the a380 now?

Read my mind ... It would look great in their livery!



Flown on: DC-3, DC-8, DC-9, DC-10, MD-11, MD-80, MD-90, 707, 717, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, 777, A300, A310, A320, A330,
User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32580 posts, RR: 72
Reply 67, posted (8 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6334 times:

The US A330 fleet, with it's high density Y cabin, and small, barebones J cabin (US went as cheap as possible with its seats, while AA has the most premium version of the same seat) is perfect for medium-haul LatAm flying from Miami. That way AA won't have to spend money replacing the seats to its own long-haul standards.


a.
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7139 posts, RR: 17
Reply 68, posted (8 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5941 times:

Quoting VCy (Reply 65):
Could we see the a380 now?

I don't see it. Unless they get some really high capacity routes- and multiple routes-that have high yields, i just don't seeit.



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlinetortugamon From United States of America, joined Apr 2013, 3369 posts, RR: 10
Reply 69, posted (8 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5826 times:

Quoting N62NA (Reply 58):
Quoting Markam (Reply 43):
AA, an airline which a few years ago was all-B will now be 50/50 A/B

Are you forgetting the A300's?

I believe from 2009-2013 AA operated an all-Boeing fleet which I think qualifies as a 'few years ago'. I don't see why remembering the A300s changes that.

tortugamon


User currently offlinesilentbob From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2033 posts, RR: 1
Reply 70, posted (8 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5716 times:

Quoting crAAzy (Reply 63):
At this stage, they will not and cannot decrease their A319 orders that are firm without penalty.

Right, that's why I said "additional orders" and depending on how far down the road the later deliveries are, Airbus has shown a willingness to allow changes in the past.

Quoting crj900lr (Reply 64):
Look for a possible deal with Silver Airways flying Saabs on some of the routes the DASH currently flys, but can't support a 50 or 76 seat jet, if they do not extend the life of the DASH-8's.

I would not expect that to happen. There are plenty of other 340s available.


User currently offlinearielwar From United States of America, joined Aug 2013, 112 posts, RR: 0
Reply 71, posted (8 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5598 times:

Do you guys think that they will put AA new incoming fleet of A319s,321s(except 321T), and B737s that have IFE in every seat for international operations only? and keep the other 737s with drop down monitors and US A319s,321s for domestic use only? I really hope they upgrade the whole fleet to be the same as the upcoming birds but with Parker as the big boss and Kirby I don't know if that's happening.

User currently offlineLDVAviation From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 1033 posts, RR: 5
Reply 72, posted (8 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5478 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 67):
The US A330 fleet, with it's high density Y cabin, and small, barebones J cabin (US went as cheap as possible with its seats, while AA has the most premium version of the same seat) is perfect for medium-haul LatAm flying from Miami. That way AA won't have to spend money replacing the seats to its own long-haul standards.

The US J seat is not the cheapest possible version of the Cirrus Zodiac seat. Delta's version of the seat deserves that honor.


User currently offlineytz From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 1947 posts, RR: 24
Reply 73, posted (8 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5422 times:

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 37):
The way things are boiling down, the fleet will be heavily Airbus domestically and Boeing international.
Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 55):
I don't see much room for an A358 in the combined fleet, so maybe US/AA could convert these to A330s? The new regional A333 even?

This is how I see it too. In the long run, Airbus narrowbodies, Boeing widebodies. The only outlier will be the 350 fleet. I can't see that as staying two sub-types though. And with the 788 and 789 adequately covering the lower end, I can only see the 350 being brought in the 300+ seat category. I forsee a full conversion to 350-1000s. The 351s could be used to upgauge some 77E/333 routes. In the long run (2025 and beyond), I see the combined entity moving to 788/789/78J/35J/77W for their long-haul.

Quoting silentbob (Reply 56):
I don't think there will be any additional A319 orders and they may even try to get some of the existing orders changed to 320s. US already has a large number of 319s and has upgraded all existing orders to larger aircraft. It won't be terribly long until they can shuffle the aircraft around the system as needed.

This:

Quoting crAAzy (Reply 63):
Additionally, with the sheer numbers of 738s in the AA fleet and coming in there will be no A320s conversions from this order as the 738 is a superior aircraft in the class.

I can foresee even more interim 738 orders to displace the 320 fleet. I actually think there's a real possibility that AA might just cancel the 738 MAX order. Crazy as it sounds.


User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6483 posts, RR: 3
Reply 74, posted (8 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5398 times:

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 37):
The way things are boiling down, the fleet will be heavily Airbus domestically and Boeing international.
Quoting ytz (Reply 73):
This is how I see it too. In the long run, Airbus narrowbodies, Boeing widebodies.

You mean, other than the fact that the fleet mix appears to be headed to be about 50/50? How is that "heavily Airbus domestically?"



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineytz From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 1947 posts, RR: 24
Reply 75, posted (8 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5220 times:

Quoting N328KF (Reply 74):

You mean, other than the fact that the fleet mix appears to be headed to be about 50/50? How is that "heavily Airbus domestically?"

I never said it was.

It's just my opinion on where things are heading in the long run. I think Airbus offers a better narrowbody product fit (particularly the larger A321) for the new AA, while Boeing offers the better widebody product fit (particularly the smaller 788 and 789).

Question for others: where does AA fly its 77Ws?


User currently offlinePSA53 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3052 posts, RR: 4
Reply 76, posted (8 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5175 times:

I hope and lobby that the new American will keep US's retro's jets including N742PS.But if not, I greatly thank for the joy to US for bringing out the PSA livery retro jet


Tuesday's Off! Do not disturb.
User currently offlineNYCAAer From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 692 posts, RR: 3
Reply 77, posted (8 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5239 times:

Quoting ytz (Reply 75):
Question for others: where does AA fly its 77Ws?

Currently they're on JFK-LHR-JFK, JFK-GRU-JFK, DFW-LHR-DFW, DFW-GRU-DFW and LAX-LHR-LAX. Starting in January, one frequency on MIA-LHR-MIA goes to the 77W. In March, 3 frequencies on JFK-LHR-JFK will be on the 77W, as opposed to just 2 currently. Later in 2014, one frequency of MIA-GRU-MIA will be 77W, and when DFW-HKG starts next June, that route will be flown with a 77W.

Basically, the 77W is being used on routes with a high amount of premium traffic where there are slot constraints where AA is unable to add frequencies, but can fly a larger aircraft to increase capacity.


User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4036 posts, RR: 8
Reply 78, posted (8 months 1 day ago) and read 5093 times:

Quoting N328KF (Reply 74):
You mean, other than the fact that the fleet mix appears to be headed to be about 50/50? How is that "heavily Airbus domestically?"

AA ordered just about equal numbers A and B narrowbodies. So sure, 50/50 until you take into account adding the US domestic fleet to the mix which is almost entirely Airbus except for the 734s and 757, at least the 734s of which will be retired very quickly. In the end yes, that is skewed toward Airbus.


User currently offlineytz From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 1947 posts, RR: 24
Reply 79, posted (8 months 1 day ago) and read 5034 times:

Quoting NYCAAer (Reply 77):
Basically, the 77W is being used on routes with a high amount of premium traffic where there are slot constraints where AA is unable to add frequencies, but can fly a larger aircraft to increase capacity.

With this in mind, I really do wonder if AA could then use 35Js in a similar complimentary manner, further restricting the 77W to where the lift really is needed.


User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6483 posts, RR: 3
Reply 80, posted (8 months 1 day ago) and read 5038 times:

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 78):
AA ordered just about equal numbers A and B narrowbodies. So sure, 50/50 until you take into account adding the US domestic fleet to the mix which is almost entirely Airbus except for the 734s and 757, at least the 734s of which will be retired very quickly. In the end yes, that is skewed toward Airbus.

And there are a lot of 737-800s in inventory on the AA side. I don't know what you guys are trying to say, but they're going to be roughly equal in terms of narrow bodies at the new AA, particularly when you consider that some of the A320s coming over from US are older than many of AA's MD-80s. Options will be exercised, and you don't know which way that will go.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineMIflyer12 From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 945 posts, RR: 0
Reply 81, posted (8 months 1 day ago) and read 5024 times:

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 55):
I don't see much room for an A358 in the combined fleet, so maybe US/AA could convert these to A330s? The new regional A333 even?

I wouldn't expect much use for a 'domestic' A333R sub-fleet: they'll just run 757s and A321s (non-premium) in those markets*. AA, DL and UA have all retired or reconfiged fair numbers of widebodies out of domestic First configs in the last ~five years. It was 764s into long-hauls at Delta; a bunch of 763s into long-haul by United. AA retired all of its A300s.

* I mean Caribbean and northern S America, too.


User currently onlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12284 posts, RR: 47
Reply 82, posted (8 months 1 day ago) and read 5006 times:
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Quoting HPRamper (Reply 78):
AA ordered just about equal numbers A and B narrowbodies. So sure, 50/50 until you take into account adding the US domestic fleet to the mix which is almost entirely Airbus except for the 734s and 757, at least the 734s of which will be retired very quickly. In the end yes, that is skewed toward Airbus.

Not forgetting the small matter of 280 neo options that AA took compared to just 60 MAX options.   

Quoting N328KF (Reply 80):
Options will be exercised, and you don't know which way that will go.

The numbers would seem to indicate which way AA is leaning.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlinesilentbob From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2033 posts, RR: 1
Reply 83, posted (8 months 1 day ago) and read 4923 times:

Quoting arielwar (Reply 71):
Do you guys think that they will put AA new incoming fleet of A319s,321s(except 321T), and B737s that have IFE in every seat for international operations only?

I think the new AA will have IFE in every new airplane at some point in the near future. The airlines will have to start fighting each other with quality and not just on price.

Quoting N328KF (Reply 80):
And there are a lot of 737-800s in inventory on the AA side. I don't know what you guys are trying to say, but they're going to be roughly equal in terms of narrow bodies at the new AA, particularly when you consider that some of the A320s coming over from US are older than many of AA's MD-80s. Options will be exercised, and you don't know which way that will go.

I think that no matter what happens, there will be a mixed fleet for the new AA for as long as it exists.


User currently offlinecrAAzy From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 767 posts, RR: 0
Reply 84, posted (8 months 15 hours ago) and read 4524 times:
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Quoting scbriml (Reply 82):
Not forgetting the small matter of 280 neo options that AA took compared to just 60 MAX options.



You just have to look at the mission for each aircraft and the existing numbers to see why this was chosen. Beside it being a great opportunity. Not to mention the back log for each plane.

- A319 is meant to fill the void of not having a 120 seater aircraft in the fleet (new niche in AA fleet)
- A321s are meant as 762 and 757 replacements (over 140 total aircraft at one point)
- B738s over which there are already over 200 in the fleet are serving to replace the MD80 fleet that was over 300 aircraft strong.

So it's not hard to see why the numbers have come out in favor of Airbus on this most recent order for narrow bodies - AA chose the best in class that was currently available for 120 seaters, 150 seater, 180 seaters as well as to not only replace but also build up their premium transcon flying fleet.


User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4228 posts, RR: 6
Reply 85, posted (8 months 3 hours ago) and read 4180 times:

Quoting crj900lr (Reply 64):

Oh my...another anti ZW post. Let's look at the facts. Of all the regionals out there....ZW is saving US more on fuel than anyone...and their operational numbers have been stellar in recent months. Also...eagle has 170 50 seaters which are all slated to be retired. Since I don't expect the 50 seat lift to disappear entirely...and PSA is probably going to lose their 40 50 seaters for bigger planes...who is left to provide 50' seat lift?

You also claim to know about an extension that was agreed to by the companies about transitioning away from ZW. Since the US/ZW deal is subject to a confidentiality agreement, there is no way that you could possibly know about this unless you are a high ranking official somewhere...and i seriously doubt that such a person would post in here. All that is public is that the ZW deal runs out in 2015, but can be extended if terms are met, which are classified. Also, the Owners of ZW have a ton of money, and they make a lot of money via ZW. They are not going to let it go that easily, and I would not be shocked if they had some sort of financial backing on this merger to secure more flying in the future.


User currently offlinesilentbob From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2033 posts, RR: 1
Reply 86, posted (8 months 2 hours ago) and read 4071 times:

Quoting apodino (Reply 85):
You also claim to know about an extension that was agreed to by the companies about transitioning away from ZW.

Any agreement on the part of US would have to be disclosed as they are a publicly traded company.


User currently offlineoc2dc From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 360 posts, RR: 0
Reply 87, posted (8 months 1 hour ago) and read 3898 times:

Quoting rj777 (Reply 36):
I wonder if any new US deliveries in 2014 (since the merger is closing in 2013) will be in the AA colors?

For months after the new AA paint scheme was unveiled, new AA 738's continued to be delivered in the old colors. I imagine US will probably see the same issue. A few more new planes in the US scheme and then it will switch over once all the logistics are figured out.

Quoting silentbob (Reply 83):
The airlines will have to start fighting each other with quality and not just on price.

Ehhhh, the market doesn't seem to think quality is an issue. Price is the big winner amongst most travelers; and if you're a business traveler, schedule is more important....Just look at NK. Their quality is atrocious (Quality and NK can't be used in the same sentence). However, price has won over many customers and is the reason NK continues to expand. . .You can even say the same about AA or US aircraft. Lots of planes desperately need to be refurbished, but people still fly them regardless of the quality of the cabin.



I'm not complaining, I'm critiquing...
User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4453 posts, RR: 5
Reply 88, posted (7 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3322 times:

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 78):
AA ordered just about equal numbers A and B narrowbodies. So sure, 50/50 until you take into account adding the US domestic fleet to the mix which is almost entirely Airbus except for the 734s and 757, at least the 734s of which will be retired very quickly. In the end yes, that is skewed toward Airbus.

Except for the fact that AA's 737-800 fleet is quite larger than the combined US Airways/AA A319/320 fleet. (I am not going to count the US Airways 737-400s as I believe they will be retired in the next year)

US Airways

A319=93
A320=70

Total=163

American Airlines

A319-100=14
737-800=221

Merged Airbus A319/320 Fleet=177
Merged Boeing 737NG Fleet=221


At this time, 84 more 737-800s are scheduled to be delivered while 51 A319s are due in.

So, at the end of the day, for the aircraft that are "real" and not paper or being "fabricated" without any flight testing. We have a fleet looking like;

Merged A319/320CEO=238
Merged 737NG=305

With the new combined fleet, I wonder if we will see a drawdown in the actual number of aircraft delivered. AA/US had to give away plenty of slots and may actually have too many aircraft operating on their combined system. Could the 737NGs availabilty in regards to the 737MAX or A320CEO/NEO enable it to garner additional options exercised by AA? Some of US Airways A319/320 series aircraft are pretty worn out and old (13-15 years and ex America West).



"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
User currently offlinerj777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1773 posts, RR: 2
Reply 89, posted (7 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3129 times:

I know this might be a long shot............ but I wonder if they'd be interested in the 777-X (soon to be launched at Dubai)

User currently offlinecolumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7054 posts, RR: 4
Reply 90, posted (7 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3108 times:

Quoting CX747 (Thread starter):
one has to wonder if the A350 order isn't modified to exclude the -800 or swapped for additional A32X aircraft.

I think they might follow United and will only go for the A350-1000.

787-8
787-9
A350-1000

seems to be a perfect mix

Any chance to see AA pick up some A330Rs for South America routes ?



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineuser444555 From United States of America, joined Aug 2013, 352 posts, RR: 0
Reply 91, posted (7 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2858 times:
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Quoting Candid76 (Reply 21):
Just one point - isn't US the driving force here? Just because AA is the larger of the two carriers does not mean that Boeing automatically wins if the ultimate leadership of the merged airline pulling the strings is from US. I think CX747 may be jumping the gun here. Of course any good management will weigh up the options from all manufacturers rather than committing to orders on the basis of historical preferences - look at JAL for example.

I think what CX747 was saying is that AA had already decided to be a joint A and B customer, but US was only buying A. That does not mean Parker won't reduce Boeing orders or not fill options, but with the large amount of Boeing metal at AA and firm orders for more, it makes more sense to keep both for a while.


User currently offlineUALWN From Andorra, joined Jun 2009, 2731 posts, RR: 2
Reply 92, posted (7 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2779 times:

Quoting CX747 (Reply 88):
At this time, 84 more 737-800s are scheduled to be delivered while 51 A319s are due in.

So, at the end of the day, for the aircraft that are "real" and not paper or being "fabricated" without any flight testing. We have a fleet looking like;

Merged A319/320CEO=238
Merged 737NG=305

You are forgetting the 65 A321CEO on order, which would bring the total A32XCEO to 303.



AT7/111/146/Avro/CRJ/CR9/EMB/ERJ/E75/F50/100/L15/DC9/D10/M8X/717/727/737/747/757/767/777/AB6/310/319/320/321/330/340/380
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