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Merger Impact On BA/IB And LH At US Hub Cities  
User currently offlineIADguy73 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 109 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 13930 times:

Haven't seen a thread just devoted to this in a while...Now that the merger is 99% done deal I was wondering what impact this will have on BA and LH especially at current US hubs like PHL, CLT and PHX. None of them has significant service from either carrier, and not sure how much BA can increase frequencies from LHR. Could we see the return of LGW flights perhaps? Any new service from MAD or BCN on IB? Would the lonely daily service of LH at CLT and PHL stay?

Cheers!

113 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3180 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 13892 times:

On the BA side of things, BA will probably start CLTLHR.

On the LH side of things, I've heard rumors of LH switching the CLTMUC flight to FRA, or keeping it a A333 year round on a less than daily basis. I see no reason why LH wouldn't continue service to PHL.

I don't see IB to PHL/CLT.



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User currently offlinechepos From Puerto Rico, joined Dec 2000, 6236 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 13501 times:

If anything I could see BA up-gauging the second daily to PHL to a 772 year round. PHL will become a hub to hub route for them, I would imagine LHR CLT would be added in the coming months to complement the daily US service.
LH would stay put in PHL..
It would be nice to see BA back in CLT.



Fly the Flag!!!!
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7975 posts, RR: 19
Reply 3, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 13081 times:

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 1):
I don't see IB to PHL/CLT.

I don't see IB anywhere....they're in the pits, but hopefully that changes.


PHX....well, that's been doing excellent on its own without OW influence. Staying.



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User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7822 posts, RR: 25
Reply 4, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 12938 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 3):
PHX....well, that's been doing excellent on its own without OW influence. Staying.

Excellent is a strong word. Its one of the worst preforming longhaul BA routes.

That said, its not going anywhere.



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User currently offlineckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5312 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 12806 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 4):
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 3):
PHX....well, that's been doing excellent on its own without OW influence. Staying.

Excellent is a strong word. Its one of the worst preforming longhaul BA routes.

That said, its not going anywhere.

You would think that PHX will improve with the merger. With all of the US elites in the Phoenix area, a fair number of them might have in the past flown to a UA hub and connected for LHR or elsewhere in Europe. With US joining oneworld and merging with AA, those elites will be more likely to fly BA to LHR and beyond.


User currently offlineuberflieger From United States of America, joined Jun 2013, 793 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 12792 times:
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up until recently US used to market LH flights on their website - no more, and without that feed CLTMUC is toast

LH & *A loose big with this merger

I don't see LH replacing MUC with FRA to CLT and PHL is only a matter of time, especially should QR start up service



passionate about The New American :)
User currently offlinePDPsol From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1120 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 12705 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 3):
I don't see IB anywhere....they're in the pits, but hopefully that changes.

IB is focused on strengthening is existing routes to the United States, as well as enhancing its JV relationship with AA and AY, and coordinating TATL operations with its affiliate, BA.

IB has targeted key oneworld cities in the United States, especially JFK and MIA, as its area of focus. These markets represent an important part of the IB's business over the North Atlantic and the carrier has dedicated its management and operational focus to these cities.

The AA/US merger represents an exceptional opportunity for IB, as well as BA. Once the merger is complete, IB will be able to coordinate US hub traffic from PHL to MAD and onward connections and market its service to additional US hubs in the United States.

IB is turning its operations around and its owner, IAG, has stated repeatedly the carrier is a crucial part of its long-term strategy. IAG-owned Vueling is performing very well and will also benefit from the AA/US merger, as TATL traffic is fed to regional flights throughout Europe.

AA/US is a great opportunity for BA, IB and Vueling.


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7743 posts, RR: 17
Reply 8, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 12485 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 4):
Excellent is a strong word. Its one of the worst preforming longhaul BA routes.

Thbis statement of, apparently, fact refers to BA's LHR-PHX service. What is the source for this statement.

Here are some facts:

Around a year ago BA increased the frequency of its PHX service from Daily except Wednesday to Daily. [Source: BA Press Release of 27 June 2012.] This indicates that it was one of their best performing long-haul routes as it was the only such route with an announced frequency increase at that time (although frequency increases were simultaneously announced from LHR to ABZ, EDI, MAN, OSL and ZRH).



The great circle distance between LHR and PHX is 5,271 miles, 3.4 per cent less than that for LHR-LAX. [Source: Great Circle Mapper.} However fares to PHX are usually higher than those to LAX. Here are comparisons for flights from LHR on 27 November returning on 4 December:

F Class. PHX: £6,302. LAX: £11,677.
J Class. PHX: £5089. LAX: £4374.
W Class. PHX: £2909. LAX: £2596.
Y Class. PHX: £646. LAX: £585

[Source BA web site 1800 hrs GMT 13 November.]

So the absolute yield in all classes except F is above that derived from the LAX route even though LAX is further.

In 2012 BA carried 181,021 passengers between LHR and PHX. [Source: CAA web site.)

In 2012 BA operated a 337 seat 'Mid J' Configured 744 on six days a week between LHR and PHX until 29 October and seven days a week from 29 October. [Source: The BA Source web site.] The average number of passengers per flight was therefore 283 giving an average load factor of 84.5 per cent. Compare this with an overall BA passenger load factor for 2012 of 79.9 per cent. [Source: IAG 2012 Annual Report]

So all the actual evidence suggests that the BA LHR-PHX service is far from being amongst their worst performing long-haul routes.


User currently offlineJetBlueCLT From United States of America, joined Oct 2013, 142 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 11827 times:

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 6):

I think your wrong. LH has a huge BMW contract down here. I would imagine they would not want to lose that contract to the new AA. I could see year round LH... 4 weekly in the winter and a daily A343/A333 in the summer. We will have to see how it all plays out.



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User currently offlineSelseyBill From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2013, 206 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 11700 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 4):
Its one of the worst preforming longhaul BA routes. .

Where did you get that idea from ?

All my personal feedback about LHR-PHX suggests the opposite. Are there any 'a-nutters' with further/ better informed evidence about this ?

The fact that BA have relatively recently gone from 6fpw to daily suggests strength rather than weakness.


User currently offlinegreenwichsud From United States of America, joined May 2008, 62 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 11703 times:

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 6):
LH & *A loose big with this merger

Does CLT really generate enough O&D for this to be a "big loss"?

And if it was a big enough loss, then that implies that it is a big enough market for LH to continue with a downgauged flight and provide connections through FRA or MUC.

WRT connections, there's very little connectivity provided by US that can't be picked up handily by UA:

CLT -> IAD
PHL -> EWR/IAD
PHX -> LAX/DEN/SFO


User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5953 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 11650 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 4):
Its one of the worst preforming longhaul BA routes.

What on earth is your source for that? I'm sorry, but if you are going to make such an emphatic statement then you should be able to reference it.

LON-PHX has been flown continuously since the 1990s, and I think it goes back longer to BCAL. A route that's stuck around for 20 years and is operated by a 747 doesn't sound like an under-performing route, especially when you consider just how many long haul destinations BA have trimmed over the last 15 years.

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 6):
without that feed CLTMUC is toast

I doubt it. The local market is surprisingly strong, courtesy of BMW, so I think it will stick around albeit on smaller gauge. I think the importance of LH flights to US hubs is somewhat over-stated: UA is LH's American partner, and LH feed passengers onto LH if possible due to their JV. The relationship between US and LH is nowhere near as cozy.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineluckyone From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 2236 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 11510 times:

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 1):
On the LH side of things, I've heard rumors of LH switching the CLTMUC flight to FRA, or keeping it a A333 year round on a less than daily basis.
Quoting JetBlueCLT (Reply 9):
I think your wrong. LH has a huge BMW contract down here. I would imagine they would not want to lose that contract to the new AA.

Yes, BMW has considerable operations in Upstate South Carolina, and LH uses CLT to serve that. You pass several manufacturing facilities on I-85 associated with it. So I'm sure they will at least stick it out for a while to see if the service can hold its own. If it does not, I'm sure LH will figure out a way to accommodate its BMW business through its ATL service. Upstate SC is basically halfway between ATL and CLT. If they do that we may see ATL returning to an A340.


User currently offlineusairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3474 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 11288 times:

I see AA/BA flying at least 4 x day on PHL-LHR. I would not be surprised to see further reductions to LH's PHL-FRA flt.

User currently offlinesteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9272 posts, RR: 21
Reply 15, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 11262 times:

I'm thinking LH will probably cease operations at PHL and CLT, I see PHL-DUS/TXL/MUC as well as CLT-DUS/TXL/MUC on either AA metal or Air Berlin, or a combination of the two.


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User currently offlineCloneof501 From United States of America, joined Aug 2011, 50 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 11171 times:

Quoting SelseyBill (Reply 10):

PHX may not be the strongest hub, but for some reason there's an absolute obsession on hating on PHX and anything related to it on a.net. The PHX-LHR has been doing fine and all the moves from BA have shown they're making money on it, otherwise they wouldn't have upped frequency.


User currently offlinea380787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2013, 1087 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 10660 times:

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 15):
I'm thinking LH will probably cease operations at PHL and CLT, I see PHL-DUS/TXL/MUC as well as CLT-DUS/TXL/MUC on either AA metal or Air Berlin, or a combination of the two.

LH already flies to hostile rival territory such as DFW-FRA, DTW-FRA, and ATL-FRA. You'd seriously think PHL-FRA would vanish into thin air upon dropping of non-existent non-JV US Airways feed ?

Stop thinking in the AA mentality that only hub-to-hub routes can succeed.


User currently offlinechepos From Puerto Rico, joined Dec 2000, 6236 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 10570 times:

PHL-FRA on LH will not be dropped, at the moment I don't think they get much feed from US in PHL.


Fly the Flag!!!!
User currently offlineuberflieger From United States of America, joined Jun 2013, 793 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 10297 times:
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Quoting a380787 (Reply 17):

it's not about hostile territory, but the power of alliances and you couldn't have brought up better examples

all 3 LH routes have seen a steady down gauging, because they are not to UA hubs or popular tourist destinations

the loss of US as a partner is the perfect excuse to discontinue MUCCLT and have the BMW folks go through ATL



passionate about The New American :)
User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33289 posts, RR: 71
Reply 20, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 10243 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 12):
What on earth is your source for that? I'm sorry, but if you are going to make such an emphatic statement then you should be able to reference it.

It's one of only two BA routes in the U.S. with subisides, and they are quite heavy. BWI-LHR is the other one. BA has threatened to leave before.

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 15):
I see PHL-DUS/TXL/MUC as well as CLT-DUS/TXL/MUC on either AA metal or Air Berlin, or a combination of the two.

For what purpose? Airberlin already has 3x daily service to JFK and 2x daily service to Miami which overlaps with PHL and CLT, respectively (and, yes, MIA and CLT overlap when it comes to Europe, because the majority of that Europe traffic is going to Florida and California, where MIA works perfectly fine as a connecting point).



a.
User currently offlineMesaFlyGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 3353 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 10217 times:
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Quoting greenwichsud (Reply 11):

Since UA no longer flies PHL-EWR I don't think that's completely accurate. That being said, I definitely think the CLT are here to stay. Not at the guavs they are now, but not completely gone. The PHL flight will be interesting to watch. I'm not familiar with the ratio of O&D:Star connections on the flight.



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User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2951 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 10058 times:

I'd expect we see US-Spain (under the JV):
BOS-MAD - seasonal?
JFK-MAD (2-3 daily)
PHL-MAD
CLT-MAD
MIA-MAD (3 daily)
ORD-MAD
DFW-MAD
LAX-MAD

JFK-BCN
PHL-BCN
MIA-BCN

I wonder if a seasonal DFW-BCN would work? Would also like to see some service to Malaga and Valencia too.


User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3180 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 9759 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 20):
MIA works perfectly fine as a connecting point

Yeah, unless one wants to avoid the nightmare that is MIA customs and immigration, and fly via ATL/IAD/CLT.



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User currently offlineJetBlueCLT From United States of America, joined Oct 2013, 142 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 9419 times:

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 15):

I highly doubt they'll drop CLT and PHL. Thats just foolish. Just because US will be exiting the Star doesn't mean LH cant make CLT and PHL work. I can't speak for PHL though but with the BMW contracts LH has down here...they would be kinda dumb to drop those contracts.



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25 PanHAM : It's not only BMW that supports MUC CLT, there are hundreds of German firms with manufacturing sites in NC and SC. In addition to the firms that are s
26 brilondon : If LH were to loose anything then they should take this opportunity to step in with their own metal and fly the route. If there is not enough business
27 PHX787 : Not to mention my sources at PHX tell me this thing regularly leaves with a load of 80-95% or more. About half of this is O&D and the other half
28 Post contains images LAXdude1023 : First let me clarify that I should have said one of the worst preforming North American LHR routes by yields. That is very much true. The others being
29 steeler83 : But the thing is, US already flies to FRA and MUC, while LH has only the lone A330 to FRA. As someone questioned before, what is the O&D-Star con
30 usairways85 : I don't have hard facts but LH has routinely cut frequencies on the PHL route during the off season. Seasonal reductions have been more prevalent rec
31 dtw9 : Show me where FRA-DTW has been down gauged.
32 irishayes : It wouldn't. BCN is a highly seasonal, low-yielding destination. Similar to FCO. There is not much of a local market between DFW and BCN, and even wi
33 BP1 : I was on the team that came to PHX back in 1995 to ramp up the operations for the inauguration in 1996. INAUGURAL: July 1, 1996 AIRCRAFT: DC-10-30 (Ol
34 LAXdude1023 : Yep. Dont look for DFW-BCN to be flown. Ever. At PHL yes, but at CLT, no.
35 upwardfacing : Any chance for a 3rd daily BA LHR-PHL?
36 osubuckeyes : If you could provide a source of this that would be great. I spent about an hour looking for anything on PHX-LHR subsidies, but could only find anyth
37 MesaFlyGuy : uhhh...no. IB is in no place to be adding flights to low-yielding markets where they would bank off of connections. Thank you!
38 FLYjoe : the loss of US as a partner is the perfect excuse to discontinue MUCCLT and have the BMW folks go through ATL ------------ The BMW folks won't go thr
39 Post contains links BP1 : During the Summer of 2008, at the height of the Great Recession, The Arizona Office of Tourism and The City of Phoenix granted $650,000 USD to British
40 VV701 : Please read what I said and please refrain from putting words into my mouth and telling others what you think I think, particularly as you have moved
41 Cloneof501 : Evidence that you didn't even care to verify or link...
42 a380787 : Merging into an airline that cannot sustain something like JFK-FRA, and you think CLT-TXL can actually exist ??
43 steeler83 : apples to oranges comparison. THere's no OW feed at FRA, at least not that I'm aware of anyway, and AA's JFK presence as far as hubs go is rather lim
44 a380787 : So you're admitting AA, with its corporate contracts and great FF program, can't compete against a foreign carrier that has no feed on the JFK side ?
45 MesaFlyGuy : There is a LOT of competition on NYC-FRA. Competition that drives down yields. LH has two flights a day which, this summer, will operated by 1 a380 a
46 USAirALB : Yes. It was the second TATL route from CLT after LGW started in the late 80s. It operated for a few years with a 747 Combi flying FRA-CLT-IAH. IIRC,
47 incitatus : The money an airline makes on a route is composed of the tickets that are actually sold. The data you provided said nothing about yields, or "absolut
48 usairways85 : I found an article that states US started CLT-FRA in November '91 and LH at the time had 3 flts/week. So LH must have cancelled the route a short tim
49 VV701 : The sourced data I provided was exactly that - sourced data. I was extremely specific as to what that data meant even down to the time and date that
50 hjulicher : Let's remember that BMW is headquarted in the Bavarian capital MUC, so flying via ATL is not really an option for BMW execs as it would require a dou
51 Post contains images uberflieger : LH used to run up to 2x daily FRADTW with even 744 in the mix (2009), down to 1 daily 343 (2014) yep, you're right, BMW and German suppliers will mos
52 hjulicher : In 2007, LH ran 2x A330 service on FRA-DTW, but since NW then reacted with also 2x (75A and A330) service, too much capacity and the service was with
53 Post contains images uberflieger : Interesting Facts About Flights from Frankfurt to Detroit (FRA to DTW) •Lufthansa operated flights from FRA to DTW using 3 types of aircraft in 2009
54 incitatus : For sure a website query is not indicative of the yields that an airline gets on a route. Let me quote the table: Here is what this means: LAX-LHR ha
55 dtw9 : So again, Show me where DTW/FRA has been down gauged due to it not being a Star hub and not just due to local market conditions. Lufthansa has indeed
56 Post contains images uberflieger : again? dude, you argued LH has been downgauging DTWFRA, I post facts, you don't like it no prob, you just keep believing this is all due to the local
57 dtw9 : First off, I'm not your "Dude". Secondly,your lack of knowledge of the LH DTW/FRA market is apparent. Lufthansa's flights from Detroit have always re
58 steeler83 : I couldn't have stated that better if I tried. Thanks. Also, I forgot about B6's codeshare with Lufthansa.
59 LDVAviation : Seriously? Most of the passengers originating in or connecting through Munich from other points in Europe will STAY with LH (because that is a LH hub
60 EricR : Why are you comparing PHX to LAX? LAX has one of the highest fares from the western US to LHR and dwarfs most all US LHR routes. Try using DEN, LAS,
61 EricR : I would like to see your source. The city offered grants during the last recession to maintain continuous service, but BA receives no subsidies today
62 VV701 : Because I am presenting evidence that disproves an earlier claim that LHR-PHX is If they are still higher than "one of the highest fares from western
63 adamh8297 : Lets make this very simple. Think of the population of LAX and PHX. Which area would have more of the type of passenger that would actually pay for f
64 VV701 : Sarcasm does not become you, particularly as I have already shown the impact of what you now say. I provided this data that shows an F class ticket t
65 SelseyBill : I'm not doubting the accuracy of this statement, but was surprised to read it. Does anyone have any links to indicate what levels of subsidy PHX may
66 Cloneof501 : There is no link because PHX isn't paying BA any subsidies. PHX paid BA some money for two years over the recession to help promote the flight, but a
67 Post contains images point2point : O&D 2011 total pax (both ways) PHL-MUC - 72 - wow.... CLT-MUC - 59 - double wow..... And these O&D numbers are with the advantage of already
68 adamh8297 : Once you sell a few of those high class tickets - you can unload some cheap seats as gravy. That is possibly why you may be seeing lower coach fares
69 usairways85 : LH is not starting MUC-PHL. I expect the merged airline will revaluate PHL-MUC/ZRH/BRU FWIW, 2011 was 2 years ago when the industry was just turning t
70 MIflyer12 : Northwest's entire TATL 757 effort was an abject failure. It wasn't eight weeks from launch of service to notice of discontinuation on DTW-BRU (and t
71 hjulicher : I'm not saying it worked, I just mentioned out of DTW a lot of new capacity was added into the market at the same time. I definitely think that does
72 Mah4546 : Wouldn't be shocked if MUC stays; BRU goes to JFK; ZRH goes to MIA.
73 MesaFlyGuy : BRU didn't work for them from JFK once, what condtions are different now except SN having established the route and been very successful on it? AA do
74 UA772IAD : I disagree. LH maybe a German-based airline, but its really a European airline. It's regional feed throughout continental Europe to FRA and in partic
75 Post contains images uberflieger : United doesn't fly it, but yes, they sell DTWFRA nonstop service dude, this thread is really not about DTW, it's about the new American hubs and thei
76 Mah4546 : It worked very well for quite a number of years. Lower cost structure. You act like airlines never resume routes.
77 MesaFlyGuy : I don't get where you get off saying that over one route, but okay.... I'm saying that, yes, they did operate for a number of years successfully. How
78 LDVAviation : I acknowledged that. I adopted a sarcastic tone only with respect to the idea that the new AA would not have the same gravity over its own hubs in th
79 Mah4546 : JFK is in fact AA's strongest trans-Atlantic hub. Miami-Brussels is a good sized market, but the yield sucks. Leave it to Jetairfly. Chicago-Brussels
80 SelseyBill : That explains a lot. None of my sources were aware of any support from PHX for BA's service.
81 SelseyBill : 'Mah4546', You have said that subsidies paid to BA "are quite heavy"; suggesting you have a source of information. Can you provide a link to this inf
82 UA772IAD : Perhaps, but MAD is a poor transit point. I don't see MAD or BCN playing a role like LHR, AMS, or MUC/FRA as a primary transit point for passengers t
83 mah4546 : I could very well be confusing the subsidies for the aforementioned promotional support. The route has traditionally been a very poor performer, henc
84 jfk777 : Three is more likely and two in the winter between the 2 airlines.
85 cageyjames : Curious why?
86 bobnwa : By what measurment is JFK their strongest hub?
87 usairways85 : Only reason I speculate this is right now with no cooperation the airlines manage 3x day probably something like 17-19 weekly during the slow season.
88 mhkansan : There are more TATL seats on AA ex-JFK than from any other hub, simple. Plus, OW connectivity to Airberlin, Qatar, British Airways, Cathay, JAL, Finn
89 mah4546 : Because it is a very large local market with high fares. Miami is the third largest local long-haul market from Zurich after New York and Bangkok. Da
90 RyanairGuru : Given that it's three daily already without any cooperation between US and BA, four (and maybe even 5) is possible/probable depending on how the chip
91 cageyjames : I'm not familiar with AA's route structure, if that's the case why don't they already do it?
92 jfk777 : where are the LHR slots for all these flights going to come from ? BA already merged with BMI, there is no more secondary UK airline with LHR slots t
93 Post contains links VV701 : Willie Walsh, IAG CEO, earlier announced that of the 54 LHR slot pairs that BA obtained with the purchase of BD, around 14 would be used for new long
94 greenair727 : I see US/AA keeping CLT-FRA on LH replacing CLT-MUC with CLE-FRA.
95 HPRamper : Say what? CLE?
96 LAXdude1023 : I agree with CLT-MUC going, but I cant see CLE-FRA coming on. If CLE could make an overseas market work, it would be LHR and nothing else. CLT-LHR on
97 usairways85 : You missed AMS, SNN, VCE, LIS, GLA. Out of these 10 destinations in question many (save 3 or 4) are not *A hubs so you can't use the argument that th
98 LAXdude1023 : Yes I did. Im not sure the fate of those either. Its not that, it has more to do with whether they are better served from JFK or another hub. My opin
99 usairways85 : No doubt the TA network from PHL will change, whether routes are dropped all together or shifted to other hubs that can serve the route better. Thoug
100 mah4546 : No, because it's the exact opposite. The bigger destinations generate traffic from a wider geographic region, while the thinner routes are far more r
101 a380787 : The banking link between FRA-CLT is probably weaker than the auto link MUC-CLT, so my guess is that if LH has to choose only 1, it will downgauge MUC
102 USAirALB : Maybe, but the A333 was flown on the route before the LH codeshare even started. CLTFRA was US's second TATL route after CLTLGW.
103 LAXdude1023 : They dont have to find a way. Given the O&D and connections, the route will survive itself just fine. Youre forgeting what LH will be losing in C
104 mah4546 : Funny enough that while historically MUC has been GSP's largest long-haul market over the past few years, it's now DXB as GSPMUC market has grown con
105 OA412 : With respect to ATH, it reportedly does well for US on a seasonal basis so it may simply stay at PHL. That said, it would probably make sense to move
106 LAXdude1023 : Its not just GSP. MUC-CLT has decreased in size in recent years as well. It was at one point 70 PDEW. In recent years, that number has been closer to
107 a380787 : See the flaw in your logic ? US/AA will somehow do fine on CLT-FRA even though they'll lose connections on european end (stop talking about what happ
108 LAXdude1023 : No flaws. It is much easier to fill a plane to FRA than MUC. With LH's MUC-CLT, the airline has to rely on traffic destined for CLT. But with AA/US's
109 andy33 : I count 5 *A hubs in the combined lists of 10 "question mark" destinations - MUC (LH), BRU (SN), ZRH (LX), LIS (TP) and ATH (A3),
110 usairways85 : I can see MUC and maybe ATH potentially staying and would not be surprised to see BRU, ZRH, and LIS go. I also don't think SNN, GLA, and EDI will all
111 a380787 : Even with 2x daily CLT-FRA (one 333 one 332) in summer, US is only offering 48 premium seats (only J). A single LH 346 alone offers 8 F + 60 J = 68 p
112 LAXdude1023 : Again, they are using their largest planes. They dont have a plane that has more premium seats than that. The fact that they are using their two larg
113 OA412 : The only thing that's obvious is that LH offers more premium seats between CLT and Germany. Without profit and loss info, you can't definitely claim
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