IADguy73 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 109 posts, RR: 0 Posted (10 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 13649 times:
Haven't seen a thread just devoted to this in a while...Now that the merger is 99% done deal I was wondering what impact this will have on BA and LH especially at current US hubs like PHL, CLT and PHX. None of them has significant service from either carrier, and not sure how much BA can increase frequencies from LHR. Could we see the return of LGW flights perhaps? Any new service from MAD or BCN on IB? Would the lonely daily service of LH at CLT and PHL stay?
USAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3079 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (10 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 13611 times:
On the BA side of things, BA will probably start CLTLHR.
On the LH side of things, I've heard rumors of LH switching the CLTMUC flight to FRA, or keeping it a A333 year round on a less than daily basis. I see no reason why LH wouldn't continue service to PHL.
chepos From Puerto Rico, joined Dec 2000, 6220 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (10 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 13220 times:
If anything I could see BA up-gauging the second daily to PHL to a 772 year round. PHL will become a hub to hub route for them, I would imagine LHR CLT would be added in the coming months to complement the daily US service.
LH would stay put in PHL..
It would be nice to see BA back in CLT.
ckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5236 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (10 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 12525 times:
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 4): Quoting PHX787 (Reply 3):
PHX....well, that's been doing excellent on its own without OW influence. Staying.
Excellent is a strong word. Its one of the worst preforming longhaul BA routes.
That said, its not going anywhere.
You would think that PHX will improve with the merger. With all of the US elites in the Phoenix area, a fair number of them might have in the past flown to a UA hub and connected for LHR or elsewhere in Europe. With US joining oneworld and merging with AA, those elites will be more likely to fly BA to LHR and beyond.
PDPsol From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1116 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (10 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 12424 times:
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 3): I don't see IB anywhere....they're in the pits, but hopefully that changes.
IB is focused on strengthening is existing routes to the United States, as well as enhancing its JV relationship with AA and AY, and coordinating TATL operations with its affiliate, BA.
IB has targeted key oneworld cities in the United States, especially JFK and MIA, as its area of focus. These markets represent an important part of the IB's business over the North Atlantic and the carrier has dedicated its management and operational focus to these cities.
The AA/US merger represents an exceptional opportunity for IB, as well as BA. Once the merger is complete, IB will be able to coordinate US hub traffic from PHL to MAD and onward connections and market its service to additional US hubs in the United States.
IB is turning its operations around and its owner, IAG, has stated repeatedly the carrier is a crucial part of its long-term strategy. IAG-owned Vueling is performing very well and will also benefit from the AA/US merger, as TATL traffic is fed to regional flights throughout Europe.
AA/US is a great opportunity for BA, IB and Vueling.
VV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7532 posts, RR: 17
Reply 8, posted (10 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 12204 times:
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 4): Excellent is a strong word. Its one of the worst preforming longhaul BA routes.
Thbis statement of, apparently, fact refers to BA's LHR-PHX service. What is the source for this statement.
Here are some facts:
Around a year ago BA increased the frequency of its PHX service from Daily except Wednesday to Daily. [Source: BA Press Release of 27 June 2012.] This indicates that it was one of their best performing long-haul routes as it was the only such route with an announced frequency increase at that time (although frequency increases were simultaneously announced from LHR to ABZ, EDI, MAN, OSL and ZRH).
The great circle distance between LHR and PHX is 5,271 miles, 3.4 per cent less than that for LHR-LAX. [Source: Great Circle Mapper.} However fares to PHX are usually higher than those to LAX. Here are comparisons for flights from LHR on 27 November returning on 4 December:
F Class. PHX: £6,302. LAX: £11,677.
J Class. PHX: £5089. LAX: £4374.
W Class. PHX: £2909. LAX: £2596.
Y Class. PHX: £646. LAX: £585
[Source BA web site 1800 hrs GMT 13 November.]
So the absolute yield in all classes except F is above that derived from the LAX route even though LAX is further.
In 2012 BA carried 181,021 passengers between LHR and PHX. [Source: CAA web site.)
In 2012 BA operated a 337 seat 'Mid J' Configured 744 on six days a week between LHR and PHX until 29 October and seven days a week from 29 October. [Source: The BA Source web site.] The average number of passengers per flight was therefore 283 giving an average load factor of 84.5 per cent. Compare this with an overall BA passenger load factor for 2012 of 79.9 per cent. [Source: IAG 2012 Annual Report]
So all the actual evidence suggests that the BA LHR-PHX service is far from being amongst their worst performing long-haul routes.
I think your wrong. LH has a huge BMW contract down here. I would imagine they would not want to lose that contract to the new AA. I could see year round LH... 4 weekly in the winter and a daily A343/A333 in the summer. We will have to see how it all plays out.
On the ground spotting JetBlue or sitting on a JetBlue plane at FL350
What on earth is your source for that? I'm sorry, but if you are going to make such an emphatic statement then you should be able to reference it.
LON-PHX has been flown continuously since the 1990s, and I think it goes back longer to BCAL. A route that's stuck around for 20 years and is operated by a 747 doesn't sound like an under-performing route, especially when you consider just how many long haul destinations BA have trimmed over the last 15 years.
I doubt it. The local market is surprisingly strong, courtesy of BMW, so I think it will stick around albeit on smaller gauge. I think the importance of LH flights to US hubs is somewhat over-stated: UA is LH's American partner, and LH feed passengers onto LH if possible due to their JV. The relationship between US and LH is nowhere near as cozy.
luckyone From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 2172 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (10 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 11229 times:
Quoting USAirALB (Reply 1): On the LH side of things, I've heard rumors of LH switching the CLTMUC flight to FRA, or keeping it a A333 year round on a less than daily basis.
Quoting JetBlueCLT (Reply 9): I think your wrong. LH has a huge BMW contract down here. I would imagine they would not want to lose that contract to the new AA.
Yes, BMW has considerable operations in Upstate South Carolina, and LH uses CLT to serve that. You pass several manufacturing facilities on I-85 associated with it. So I'm sure they will at least stick it out for a while to see if the service can hold its own. If it does not, I'm sure LH will figure out a way to accommodate its BMW business through its ATL service. Upstate SC is basically halfway between ATL and CLT. If they do that we may see ATL returning to an A340.
PHX may not be the strongest hub, but for some reason there's an absolute obsession on hating on PHX and anything related to it on a.net. The PHX-LHR has been doing fine and all the moves from BA have shown they're making money on it, otherwise they wouldn't have upped frequency.
a380787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2013, 990 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (10 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 10379 times:
Quoting steeler83 (Reply 15): I'm thinking LH will probably cease operations at PHL and CLT, I see PHL-DUS/TXL/MUC as well as CLT-DUS/TXL/MUC on either AA metal or Air Berlin, or a combination of the two.
LH already flies to hostile rival territory such as DFW-FRA, DTW-FRA, and ATL-FRA. You'd seriously think PHL-FRA would vanish into thin air upon dropping of non-existent non-JV US Airways feed ?
Stop thinking in the AA mentality that only hub-to-hub routes can succeed.
Mah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32782 posts, RR: 72
Reply 20, posted (10 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 9962 times:
Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 12): What on earth is your source for that? I'm sorry, but if you are going to make such an emphatic statement then you should be able to reference it.
It's one of only two BA routes in the U.S. with subisides, and they are quite heavy. BWI-LHR is the other one. BA has threatened to leave before.
Quoting steeler83 (Reply 15): I see PHL-DUS/TXL/MUC as well as CLT-DUS/TXL/MUC on either AA metal or Air Berlin, or a combination of the two.
For what purpose? Airberlin already has 3x daily service to JFK and 2x daily service to Miami which overlaps with PHL and CLT, respectively (and, yes, MIA and CLT overlap when it comes to Europe, because the majority of that Europe traffic is going to Florida and California, where MIA works perfectly fine as a connecting point).
Since UA no longer flies PHL-EWR I don't think that's completely accurate. That being said, I definitely think the CLT are here to stay. Not at the guavs they are now, but not completely gone. The PHL flight will be interesting to watch. I'm not familiar with the ratio of O&D:Star connections on the flight.
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I highly doubt they'll drop CLT and PHL. Thats just foolish. Just because US will be exiting the Star doesn't mean LH cant make CLT and PHL work. I can't speak for PHL though but with the BMW contracts LH has down here...they would be kinda dumb to drop those contracts.
On the ground spotting JetBlue or sitting on a JetBlue plane at FL350
: It's not only BMW that supports MUC CLT, there are hundreds of German firms with manufacturing sites in NC and SC. In addition to the firms that are s
: If LH were to loose anything then they should take this opportunity to step in with their own metal and fly the route. If there is not enough business
: Not to mention my sources at PHX tell me this thing regularly leaves with a load of 80-95% or more. About half of this is O&D and the other half
: First let me clarify that I should have said one of the worst preforming North American LHR routes by yields. That is very much true. The others being
: But the thing is, US already flies to FRA and MUC, while LH has only the lone A330 to FRA. As someone questioned before, what is the O&D-Star con
: I don't have hard facts but LH has routinely cut frequencies on the PHL route during the off season. Seasonal reductions have been more prevalent rec
: Show me where FRA-DTW has been down gauged.
: It wouldn't. BCN is a highly seasonal, low-yielding destination. Similar to FCO. There is not much of a local market between DFW and BCN, and even wi
: I was on the team that came to PHX back in 1995 to ramp up the operations for the inauguration in 1996. INAUGURAL: July 1, 1996 AIRCRAFT: DC-10-30 (Ol
: Yep. Dont look for DFW-BCN to be flown. Ever. At PHL yes, but at CLT, no.