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DL Looking To Regain DCA Slots?  
User currently offlineTriple7Lr From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 94 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 7091 times:

This is the second press release in two days about the divested DCA slots from the AA/US merger.


Yesterday:
http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=43&item=2173

Today:
http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=43&item=2175

Do they have a chance at picking up slots? Could they pick up all the slots they gave up to US in the swap a few years ago?

49 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1370 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 7075 times:

The DOJ will not allow; it but they can try.... I do think they will at least get one gate at DAL though.

[Edited 2013-11-13 12:18:27]


You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlineAADC10 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2067 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 7039 times:

It is unlikely. When US and DL swapped slots, the divested slots were all given to carriers with smaller slot portfolios. Unless DL proposes some thin route that serves some congressmen, it will probably go to an LCC. I am sure DL would like to have them, along with UA but neither is too likely.

User currently offlinetlecam From United States of America, joined exactly 1 years ago today! , 215 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6867 times:

Who regulates the slot sale?

User currently offlineLDVAviation From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 1038 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6707 times:

Quoting tlecam (Reply 4):
Who regulates the slot sale?

For the slots that aren't already leased and will be sold to the current lessees, the DOJ will qualify the buyers and send a list to AA.

AA will negotiate with the buyers itself. Even if Delta got on the list of qualified buyers, it seems from what was said on AA's conference call yesterday that AA does not have to make a deal.


User currently offlinejetblastdubai From United States of America, joined Aug 2013, 628 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6537 times:
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Quoting airliner371 (Reply 1):
The DOJ will not allow

At least the government isn't picking the winners and losers in the private market anymore.....they're just picking the companies that will even be allowed to participate.

At what point are people going to stop coddling the so-called LCCs and make them compete on their own merits? WN is bigger domestically than any carrier yet because some people think they're always cheaper, they should have everything handed to them. Does WN really need preferential consideration for another competitors domestic assets?


User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6412 times:

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 5):
At what point are people going to stop coddling the so-called LCCs and make them compete on their own merits? WN is bigger domestically than any carrier yet because some people think they're always cheaper, they should have everything handed to them. Does WN really need preferential consideration for another competitors domestic assets?

I don't think it's LCCs but it's WN is still a limited incumbent carrier at DCA, even though it's huge in WAS because of BWI. DL isn't a limited incumbent carrier at DCA though.


User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1370 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6374 times:

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 5):
At what point are people going to stop coddling the so-called LCCs and make them compete on their own merits? WN is bigger domestically than any carrier yet because some people think they're always cheaper, they should have everything handed to them. Does WN really need preferential consideration for another competitors domestic assets?

I would point to Flytravel's post below...

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 6):
I don't think it's LCCs but it's WN is still a limited incumbent carrier at DCA

Exactly, what does it matter if they are the largest domestic airline, they are a limited incumbent carrier at DCA and LGA and that is all that matters in this case.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7801 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6239 times:

I think they have a shot, although it's slim. I don't see what they have to lose unless they're dropping a lot of money to just pursue this option (I don't see how that would happen.) Worst case they'll get nothing, the same as if they didn't try. Best case they'll get them all which again, is unlikely, but there really is no cost for just trying. There is plenty of middle ground in picking up a couple DCA slots which I wouldn't be surprised to see.

Maybe it's my fanboyism getting in the way, but I don't see it really fair to deny DL and UA from even getting a couple slots. I don't see why WN and B6 or whoever need to get them all. Legacy carriers can still bring something to the table



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinejetblastdubai From United States of America, joined Aug 2013, 628 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6146 times:
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Quoting airliner371 (Reply 7):
they are a limited incumbent carrier at DCA
WN is bigger at DCA than United is. Does this mean UA is a limited incumbent carrier and is therefore eligible to bid on the DCA slots?

United's market share at LGA is less than 2% more than JBU but according to USAir's Johnson, DL and UA "need not apply"

From Forbes: http://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/...r-national-slots/?partner=yahootix

“We anticipate it will be only low cost carriers, seven or eight low cost carriers,” Johnson said. “We don’t expect the list will include any of the legacy carriers. We are allowed to negotiate sales of the slots with any of those qualified buyers as we see fit.” He noted that DOJ will not permit all the slots to be sold to one buyer.

[Edited 2013-11-13 14:28:06]

User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6575 posts, RR: 24
Reply 10, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6080 times:

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 9):
WN is bigger at DCA than United is.

UA is substantially larger than WN at DCA.

UA flies 1x SFO, 1x DEN, 15x ORD, 8x IAH, 5x CLE and 8x EWR. 38 daily departures

WN flies 4x MKE, 1x RSW, 2x HOU, 2x STL, 1x AUS, 6x ATL. 16 daily departures

Generally, anyone with fewer than 20 departures is considered a limited incumbent.


User currently offlinejetblastdubai From United States of America, joined Aug 2013, 628 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6029 times:
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Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 8):
Legacy carriers can still bring something to the table

Exactly...how many Star Alliance FFs are there around DC that earned their status on either UA or US? *A gold/platinum status does no good if most of your flight options are now OW at the airport where you earned your status. If the DOJ criteria includes benefit to customers, that might be something to consider.


oops. I referenced the wrong dates on the DCA data...sorry UA has 7.5% market share at DCA.

[Edited 2013-11-13 14:44:52]

[Edited 2013-11-13 14:47:42]

User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2122 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5957 times:

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 11):
Exactly...how many Star Alliance FFs are there around DC that earned their status on either UA or US? *A gold/platinum status does no good if most of your flight options are now OW at the airport where you earned your status. If the DOJ criteria includes benefit to customers, that might be something to consider.

They shouldn't. Price is what matters to the government, not alliance. If someone is based in DC and use to fly exclusively US/UA and earn miles for Star they will likely stick with the new AA/US (barring major service changes) and instead will just become OW junkies. How Star will keep their customers is Star's problem, not the DOJ.

What do you think happened to all the frequent flyers based in EWR/IAH when CO moved to Star? Do you think they stuck with Skyteam?

[Edited 2013-11-13 14:55:58]

User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1370 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5889 times:

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 9):

At LaGuarda, United operates 41 departures, Southwest operates 27, JetBlue operates 17. At Reagan, United operates 38 departures, JetBlue operates 18 and Southwest operates 16. So, United is not a limited incumbent carrier at either airport and WN and B6 are. That is why legacies should not and will not be included.

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 9):
Does this mean UA is a limited incumbent carrier and is therefore eligible to bid on the DCA slots?

Nope.

[Edited 2013-11-13 15:09:23]


You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlinejetblastdubai From United States of America, joined Aug 2013, 628 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5752 times:
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Got it..I was looking at market share instead of number of flights.

User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5445 posts, RR: 29
Reply 15, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5627 times:

I think they need to tell Delta to shove off. Between their current massive size, their assertive growth at SEA/LAX/BOS/ other locations, and the fact that AAUS will be required to divest slots at LGA even though DL is bigger - sorry Delta. Good try.  

-Dave



Totes my goats!
User currently offlineCoronado From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1168 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5463 times:
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Well if there is money to be paid for the slot divestiture, nothing wrong with driving up the bidding!


The Original Coronado: First CV jet flights RG CV 990 July 1965; DL CV 880 July 1965; Spantax CV990 Feb 1973
User currently offlineb757capt From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1366 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5251 times:

Quoting Coronado (Reply 16):

This is exactly what AA/US Scott Kirby said to employees. He said let DL bid so they can get a high return on the assets!



The views written by this user are in no manner the views of my employer and should not be thought as such.
User currently offlineklkla From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 929 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5012 times:

Delta's argument that "Small- and medium-sized communities nationwide could experience a reduction or elimination of flights to key airports if the divestiture is limited to low-cost carriers, which typically do not provide service to small communities" has to at least be considered. It's a legitimate argument.

I'm not predicting that the rules will be changed but DL has successfully made these left-field arguments before and won (HND move to SEA, additional GRU frequencies to ATL, e.t.c...)


User currently offlineLDVAviation From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 1038 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4815 times:

Quoting klkla (Reply 18):
Delta's argument that "Small- and medium-sized communities nationwide could experience a reduction or elimination of flights to key airports if the divestiture is limited to low-cost carriers, which typically do not provide service to small communities" has to at least be considered. It's a legitimate argument.

I'm not predicting that the rules will be changed but DL has successfully made these left-field arguments before and won (HND move to SEA, additional GRU frequencies to ATL, e.t.c...)


That argument worked on the DOT. The DOJ will be qualifying the applicants here on the basis of whether or not they are "limited incumbents" and not (from what I have read) on the basis of their commitment to serve small communities.

Moreover, given Delta's track record, do we really believe it would maintain service to those small communities? The slots that it would be getting are conventional air carrier slots, not commuter slots. Once in Delta's possession, those slots could be used for whatever "perimeter" route and whatever plane they wanted.


User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6037 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4632 times:

Forgive my ignorance, but Whats to stop AA/US from selling them to a "friendly" carrier….say B6….then do a codeshare?


When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlinecapitalflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 341 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4579 times:

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 19):
do we really believe it would maintain service to those small communities?

Exactly. I would be curious what "small and medium sized cities" Delta wants to fly to. MEM? CVG? I don't see them flying to Fayetteville AR any time soon.


User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 4466 times:

Quoting capitalflyer (Reply 21):
Exactly. I would be curious what "small and medium sized cities" Delta wants to fly to. MEM? CVG? I don't see them flying to Fayetteville AR any time soon.

Probably a market like TYS. Small enough that WN/B6 lack service to it, but large enough in the Southeast US where DL would enjoy servicing both LGA and DCA while being dominant with connections through ATL. I doubt AA would discontinue it's service on TYS-DCA though.

With AA having to give up DCA slots, it likely reduces any chances for new markets from AA being offered to DCA like GRR-DCA.

I think WN and B6 could easily counter the DL argument but it might mean a commitment on a route like on DCA-GRR than what WN might want to run many frequencies on like DCA-DAL. Even Sun Country flies LAN-DCA and isn't LAN a small market?

WN could likely move some marginal BWI routes to DCA. This could help O&D but there wouldn't be as great connection feed. B6 has some already existing small markets in upstate NY it could link to DCA. Also, SRQ and a few Florida markets, not FLL MCO TPA, could be viewed as small markets. Maybe B6 would consider DCA-SRQ.

[Edited 2013-11-13 21:14:19]

User currently offlineFSDan From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 750 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 4423 times:

Quoting capitalflyer (Reply 21):
Exactly. I would be curious what "small and medium sized cities" Delta wants to fly to.

Well, judging by their past at DCA, I would say OMA, MSN, and GRR. Those were three of the last flights to go when they trimmed DCA back after the slot swap, and they are three solid markets where DL is very strong. They were previously flown using CR7/CR9 equipment, which seems like the right amount of plane. DL could restart those three and maybe JAN if the slots get divided up into chunks of 4 pairs and the DOJ allows DL to compete.

As someone living in Madison I'm biased, but I would love to see this happen.



SEA SFO SJC LAX ONT SAN DEN IAH DFW OMA FSD MSP MSN MKE ORD DTW CVG MEM JAN BHM RSW ATL CLT BWI PHL LGA JFK MEX LIM KEF
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7521 posts, RR: 28
Reply 24, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3226 times:

It is worth a try, why not.

I agree with the whole idea of coddling WN needs to stop. The FL/WN merger has been the most damaging of all for consumers and for many smaller/mid-sized communities as well.

If WN can bid on DCA slots, let DL have a fair shake at DAL gates.


User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4227 posts, RR: 1
Reply 25, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3192 times:
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Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 10):
UA flies 1x SFO, 1x DEN

Two more slot pairs -- one each for SFO and DEN -- making it possible to go and return the same day -- would be a really useful addition to UA's slot portfolio.   

OTOH, some see DL's whining simply as Gordon Gekko's "greed is good."

[Edited 2013-11-14 07:16:13]

User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2122 posts, RR: 1
Reply 26, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3067 times:

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 25):

Two more slot pairs -- one each for SFO and DEN -- making it possible to go and return the same day -- would be a really useful addition to UA's slot portfolio.

Those would require beyond perimeter slots. Even if they were available I doubt UA would get 2 of them.


User currently offlineCargoIT From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 55 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3121 times:

The Forbes article say 52 slot pairs are to be divested at DCA. Based on some figures in this thread, if WN and B6 both doubled their operation at DCA it would only take 34 of the pairs. I think the DOJ is hoping for carriers like NK, F9, G4, SY... bidding on the slots. I don't think any one of these carriers would take more than 3-4 pairs. This could very well leave a few slots for non LCCs like DL or UA.

User currently offlinekcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3795 posts, RR: 7
Reply 28, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2929 times:

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 24):
I agree with the whole idea of coddling WN needs to stop. The FL/WN merger has been the most damaging of all for consumers and for many smaller/mid-sized communities as well.

Amen!!!



I think this is going to come down to WN and B6 being the most slot-hungry airlines, but that's just my gut feeling. I don't know what F9/SY would do with them and NK left DCA for BWI on their own.

I'm interested to see what DL would do with additional slots, but it'd probably be more flying to DL's major spokes.


User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2893 times:

Quoting kcrwflyer (Reply 28):
NK left DCA for BWI on their own.
NK probably regrets that move in light of the merger being approved with the slot divestiture. If it had enough DCA slots, like it does at LGA, it would likely prefer being back at DCA.

[Edited 2013-11-14 08:14:15]

User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21505 posts, RR: 56
Reply 30, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2842 times:

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 24):
I agree with the whole idea of coddling WN needs to stop.

   They should be able to get first crack at the slots that they already lease from AA at LGA, but that's it. If they want to get into new slot-restricted markets, let them bid for it with everyone else.

Hell, they already got a virtual monopoly handed to them at DAL. Not sure they're in a position to ask for much else.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinea380787 From Canada, joined Jul 2013, 964 posts, RR: 0
Reply 31, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2835 times:

I'd much prefer B6 and WN get those slots than someone like NK, which would turn DCA into a greyhound terminal

I wonder for the slots to be surrendered, who decides them ? AA deciding the highest bidder, or allocated directly by DOT ?


User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6575 posts, RR: 24
Reply 32, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2730 times:

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 24):
The FL/WN merger has been the most damaging of all for consumers and for many smaller/mid-sized communities as well.

Hardly. The WN/FL merger didn't force entire hubs to be shutdown like what DL has done. Most communities that lost MEM/CVG service, did not get all (or even some) of that capacity back. This was far more damaging to far more communities than WN/FL which admittedly hurt some cities.

I don't have a problem with DL bidding on DAL gates. However, DL bidding on DCA slots is a bit ridiculous. First, DL already dumped a bunch of DCA slots, so clearly DCA isn't that important to them. Second, DL can't viably serve DCA from most small markets either and they know it. If DL launched DCA-TYS or DCA-CHS, they would bleed red ink.


User currently offlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 902 posts, RR: 0
Reply 33, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2713 times:

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 5):
WN is bigger domestically than any carrier yet because some people think they're always cheaper, they should have everything handed to them. Does WN really need preferential consideration for another competitors domestic assets?

where's the preferential treatment?

Quoting Mir (Reply 30):
They should be able to get first crack at the slots that they already lease from AA at LGA, but that's it. If they want to get into new slot-restricted markets, let them bid for it with everyone else.

DING. DING. DING. That's exactly what's happening.

Quoting Mir (Reply 30):
Hell, they already got a virtual monopoly handed to them at DAL. Not sure they're in a position to ask for much else.

How's that? There are empty gates and underutilized gates sitting at love field right now that can be used by anyone that wants to sign a lease with AA or UA to use their gates.



My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently offlinekcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3795 posts, RR: 7
Reply 34, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2638 times:

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 29):
NK probably regrets that move in light of the merger being approved with the slot divestiture. If it had enough DCA slots, like it does at LGA, it would likely prefer being back at DCA.

Maybe in the short term, but when I look at how fast NK is growing I think differently. While they could get more slots and grow DCA to an extent, there is still a ceiling. Not to say that BWI has unlimited growth potential, but they could grow their operation there quickly and painlessly as they please instead of going through the slot and gate struggle at DCA.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 31):
I'd much prefer B6 and WN get those slots than someone like NK, which would turn DCA into a greyhound terminal

The NK crowd is not vastly different from the WN crowd or the FL crowd, just less suits in most cases.


User currently offlinebobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6441 posts, RR: 9
Reply 35, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2647 times:

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 25):
OTOH, some see DL's whining simply as Gordon Gekko's "greed is good."


How does Delta wanting to be able to bid for the slots constitute "whining?
If you were running DL, would you not be seeking the slots? We are a capitalist country after all.


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21505 posts, RR: 56
Reply 36, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2566 times:

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 33):
There are empty gates and underutilized gates sitting at love field right now that can be used by anyone that wants to sign a lease with AA or UA to use their gates.

In other words, they can't be used by anyone if AA or UA doesn't want to lease them. The government basically said that everyone who was already in DAL could stay, and anyone who wasn't in DAL already would have to look elsewhere. Not exactly "setting Love free", is it?

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24997 posts, RR: 85
Reply 37, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2345 times:
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Quoting FSDan (Reply 23):
Well, judging by their past at DCA, I would say OMA, MSN, and GRR.

At least in theory, Delta could get its hands on two of those now, without the divestiture.

The relationship between Republic and Frontier will end in a few weeks and the slots for OMA/MSN/MCI-DCA are held by Republic and cannot be sold or transferred to Frontier.

So I assume Republic is looking for a partner carrier to be able to continue to use the slots - Delta?

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5445 posts, RR: 29
Reply 38, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2248 times:

Quoting a380787 (Reply 31):
I'd much prefer B6 and WN get those slots than someone like NK, which would turn DCA into a greyhound terminal

Yes, because we don't want the filthy masses mingling with the politicians and their gaggle of wealthy friends. That would be ludicrous.....  
Quoting bobnwa (Reply 35):
If you were running DL, would you not be seeking the slots? We are a capitalist country after all.

They can seek all they want, but they should be told to pound sand. Or perhaps give up some of the LGA slots that they got when they chose to give up some of these very slots to US. Or is it Have-Your-Cake-and-Eat-it-Too week in Atlanta?

-Dave



Totes my goats!
User currently offlinejetblastdubai From United States of America, joined Aug 2013, 628 posts, RR: 0
Reply 39, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2212 times:
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Quoting usflyguy (Reply 33):
where's the preferential treatment?

WN will be allowed to bid on slots while (according to most articles), DL and UA will not.

UA was forced to divest slots/assets at EWR to an LCC as a condition of their merger.

What was WN forced to divest as a condition of their merger? Additionally, the WN merger actually removed an entire LCC from playing field.


User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6575 posts, RR: 24
Reply 40, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2152 times:

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 39):
WN will be allowed to bid on slots while (according to most articles), DL and UA will not.

But SY, NK, F9, B6, G4, etc will all be allowed to bid as well.

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 39):
UA was forced to divest slots/assets at EWR to an LCC as a condition of their merger.

No they weren't. UA chose to divest the slots to smooth things over, but they were never required to do so.

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 39):

What was WN forced to divest as a condition of their merger?

WN didn't have a majority holding of slots at any restricted airport, so there was no reason for them to divest.


User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5445 posts, RR: 29
Reply 41, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2110 times:

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 39):
Additionally, the WN merger actually removed an entire LCC from playing field.

And to all the other airlines, they say "You're welcome".

-Dave



Totes my goats!
User currently offlinejetblastdubai From United States of America, joined Aug 2013, 628 posts, RR: 0
Reply 42, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2098 times:
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Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 40):
No they weren't. UA chose to divest the slots to smooth things over, but they were never required to do so.

You sure about that? Or was this one of those "you've got a nice merger there...shame if anything happened to it" type of agreement?

http://communique.atlastravel.com/sep10/2.htm


User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4227 posts, RR: 1
Reply 43, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2057 times:
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Quoting kcrwflyer (Reply 28):
NK left DCA for BWI on their own.
Quoting Flytravel (Reply 29):
NK probably regrets that move in light of the merger being approved with the slot divestiture.
Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 38):
Quoting a380787 (Reply 31):I'd much prefer B6 and WN get those slots than someone like NK, which would turn DCA into a greyhound terminal
Yes, because we don't want the filthy masses mingling with the politicians and their gaggle of wealthy friends. That would be ludicrous.....

I've been in BWI twice in two weeks. The NK ticket counter always had a long line. The airport and people of the catchment area are supporting them. There is no business reason for them to return to DCA.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 40):
But SY, NK, F9, B6, G4, etc will all be allowed to bid as well.

Having the bright, attractively painted G4 planes at DCA would be a treat for the landscape. Perhaps they could occupy the niche formerly held by NK.


User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5445 posts, RR: 29
Reply 44, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1916 times:

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 43):
I've been in BWI twice in two weeks. The NK ticket counter always had a long line. The airport and people of the catchment area are supporting them. There is no business reason for them to return to DCA.

I never said otherwise. I was replying to A380787's elitist comment.

-Dave



Totes my goats!
User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2122 posts, RR: 1
Reply 45, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1659 times:

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 42):
You sure about that? Or was this one of those "you've got a nice merger there...shame if anything happened to it" type of agreement?

Well yes, UA/CO were likely going to be forced to get rid of slots of EWR to get the merger approved. But the government technically never forced/required UA to do so (they did it themselves before the government could) and the government never forced UA to sell them (all) to WN. UA did that themselves knowing that the minute they did that the strongest possible LCC opponent to the merge would change its mind.


User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1370 posts, RR: 1
Reply 46, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1563 times:

Quoting Polot (Reply 45):
Well yes, UA/CO were likely going to be forced to get rid of slots of EWR to get the merger approved. But the government technically never forced/required UA to do so (they did it themselves before the government could) and the government never forced UA to sell them (all) to WN

And in fact, the slots were never sold, they are leased by Southwest from United.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlinestyle From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 263 posts, RR: 0
Reply 47, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1562 times:

Quoting Polot (Reply 45):

Sorry to say but you are trying to re-write history here. When the government came out and said they would approve the merger between CO/UA one of the (very) few stipulations was that they would have to give up the slots in EWR. This was not something CO/UA just willingly decided to do in advance. It was one of the points of approval set out by the government.


User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 48, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1475 times:

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 43):
I've been in BWI twice in two weeks. The NK ticket counter always had a long line. The airport and people of the catchment area are supporting them. There is no business reason for them to return to DCA.

I have no doubt that it's filling planes, but I was thinking in terms of potential growth. But I missed the fact of the longer distance that NK is now flying.

IWith BWI it can fly longer routes to cities like LAS. With DCA, it targets the center of the WAS market better though and it could stimulate popular in perimeter routes, like it does with LGA-ORD for fares like $80 one-way.

Probably NK will continue to expand in the Sunbelt and my guess is it makes a dedicated move on PHX. For BWI that could mean PHX-BWI being added.

Although unlikely it'd link MSP with BWI, It would be interesting for them to get on MSP-BWI before WN does.

[Edited 2013-11-14 16:56:33]

User currently offlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 902 posts, RR: 0
Reply 49, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1471 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 36):
In other words, they can't be used by anyone if AA or UA doesn't want to lease them. The government basically said that everyone who was already in DAL could stay, and anyone who wasn't in DAL already would have to look elsewhere. Not exactly "setting Love free", is it?
Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 39):
WN will be allowed to bid on slots while (according to most articles), DL and UA will not.

They could most certainly bid on slots if they were LIMITED INCUMBENTS.

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 39):
UA was forced to divest slots/assets at EWR to an LCC as a condition of their merger.

Please provide us with an official document stating such. As far as I can recall, these were leased to WN, along with gates, before the government even made such "demand".

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 39):
What was WN forced to divest as a condition of their merger?

What should have WN been forced to divest? Gates at HOU? There are empty gates sitting there right now. Gates at BWI? There are empty gates sitting there now. MDW? It has 3 empty gates. OAK? Plenty of empty gates there. SNA is the only slot controlled airport that WN has a majority of the slots and FL didn't serve SNA and there are slots being returned to the airport by other carriers so if someone else wants slots, they're there for the taking.

CLT and ATL are 2 of the biggest gate constrained airports in the country and neither DL/NW nor AA/US were/are required to divest of gates at either.

You do realize that they are required to divest because they were both operating at airports with limited resources be that gates or slots, right? FL didn't operate at DAL prior to the acquisition so that really holds no bearing.

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 39):
Additionally, the WN merger actually removed an entire LCC from playing field.

The merger of US/AA is removing an entire "legacy" airline from the playing field, so what exactly is your point?



My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
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