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DL BOS Expansion  
User currently offlineNWBOS From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 157 posts, RR: 2
Posted (8 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 17439 times:

Some new service (LAS/PLS/NAS/JAX/LAX), extension of BOS/CUN through the sumer:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/delta-expands-boston-160000557.html

Of course the article doesn't mention that we have lost BOS-YYZ and will soon lose BOS-ORF and BOS-MEM.

Also, interesting that DL's BOS-CDG is showing upguaged to 767 from 757 for Su14.

Nice to see DL flexing its muscle. Hopefully Terminal A can be DL only once UA and AS are out next year.

96 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinedlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 927 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (8 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 17369 times:

Very good news indeed. Hopefully DL will grow more cities out of BOS with the US/AA merger looming.

Quoting NWBOS (Thread starter):
Hopefully Terminal A can be DL only once UA and AS are out next year.

I thought UA was on another concourse in BOS unless these are the PMCO gates? Any word where AS is moving too?



PHX Ramp, hottest place on earth
User currently offlinejcarv From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 352 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 17277 times:

Yes he is referring to the PMCO gates. Hopefully they will return to DL. There are 4 of them.

User currently offlineTW870 From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 221 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 17255 times:
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What's the story with the thrice weekly 738 service to LAS? Is that just to take up slack in that fleet? I recognize that there is actually a good amount of business travel to LAS, but less than daily service isn't going to be particularly attractive to that crowd. Where did that route come from?

FYI when I was a BOS based UA flight attendant in 1999, I remember seeing DL 763s leaving for LAS all the time. This was back when they had biz elite service on the 763 to LAX. Oh how times have changed!


User currently offlineLDVAviation From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 1048 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (8 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 17186 times:

How many daily flights does that make? Delta's marketshare (mainline) was about 11% in July.

There are 21 gates in Terminal A. Isn't that too many for DL's market share?

By comparison, the new AA with a projected market share of 25% will operate out of 26 gates (after the divesture).

In any case, Massport took over Terminal A following Delta's bankruptcy. So it is really Massport's decision whether Terminal A returns to being Delta only.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22731 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (8 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 16699 times:

Quoting TW870 (Reply 3):
I recognize that there is actually a good amount of business travel to LAS, but less than daily service isn't going to be particularly attractive to that crowd.

Given that a lot of business traffic to LAS is related to conventions and that conventions are more likely to start and end on some days than on others, LAS might be the rare market where this makes sense. I left LAS last night after a business trip and the place was a ghost town. I don't think I saw a single DL flight leave more than half full. My 738 to MEM had 6 in F and about 40 in back.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinezrs70 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 3129 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (8 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 16572 times:

When DL was big in the 80's, they shared Terminal C with WA Transworld Airlines (USA)">TW and UA. C was often called the "main" terminal then. L 10's to points all over.

If I recall, DL had ns mainline flights to:

MIA
FLL
TPA
PBI
MCO
ATL
RDU
BWI
DCA
LGA
PWM
BGR
BDL
CVG
YUL
BDA
PHL

After the merger with WA. SLC as well.

[Edited 2013-11-13 20:06:43]

[Edited 2013-11-13 20:07:28]


14 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2013
User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 16482 times:

Quoting NWBOS (Thread starter):
and will soon lose BOS-ORF

Might B6 or WN pick up this route?

For WN, the ORF-BWI schedule is reduced, the very short-haul nature not helpful, and likely a lot of connection feed to New England. ORF-ATL adequately covers south now, and ORF-MDW is there for west. Rather than fly to BWI for connection to New England, it could capture better with a nonstop up to BOS.

B6 has the BOS hub/focus city.

One would think either would try to get in on the route before the other one does. FL used to fly PHF-BOS as well not too long ago, so BOS now loses nonstop to both airports.

[Edited 2013-11-13 20:33:46]

User currently offlineFSDan From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 750 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (8 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 16328 times:

Quoting NWBOS (Thread starter):
will soon lose BOS-ORF

The BOS-ORF flights look like they are being moved to BOS-RIC. I suppose DL senses more business travel in that market, although they'll now be competing against B6 instead of having BOS-ORF to themselves.



SEA SFO SJC LAX ONT SAN DEN IAH DFW OMA FSD MSP MSN MKE ORD DTW CVG MEM JAN BHM RSW ATL CLT BWI PHL LGA JFK MEX LIM KEF
User currently offlineipodguy7 From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 322 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 15820 times:

Did some dummy bookings the week of July 6th for DL in BOS, and came up with 458 Domestic weeklies departures, and 38 International weekly departures.
In total: 496 flights/week (departures), or 62,011 seats available (departure only)

So in comparison to the other legacies for the same week
DL 496 62,011
UA 335 41,434
US 495 53,552
AA 211 33,218



Next Trips: BNA-ORD-LHR-JTR, HER-CPH, CPH-ARN-CPH, CPH-LHR-DFW-BNA, BNA-DFW, DFW-BNA-DFW (X3)
User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8218 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 15366 times:

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 4):
In any case, Massport took over Terminal A following Delta's bankruptcy. So it is really Massport's decision whether Terminal A returns to being Delta only.

Indeed however if DL has a need for the gates I really don't see Massport not wanting them to expand. Airlines aren't exacly clamoring for those gates. Massport had a heck of a time getting airlines to move to A to begin with, which is why WN ended up at terminal E. Terminal A is not a desirable terminal at BOS for anyone but Delta.


User currently offlineadamh8297 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 839 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 15254 times:

Quoting zrs70 (Reply 6):

Definitely missing DFW - which was a hub at the time. Check departedflights.com - there are timetables from the 80's and 90's.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 10):
Terminal A is not a desirable terminal at BOS for anyone but Delta.

I'm sure it works out fine for AS. They could bump NK into there at some point as well if space was needed.


User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3387 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 15123 times:

Just curious why Terminal A isn't desirable by other airlines.

BOS isn't a very nice airport...1970s terminals with low ceilings abound. Paint, new lighting, and new bathrooms aside, Terminal A is the only modern facility at the airport. That and the 1990s US Shuttle extension are bright spots in an airport that would generally be classified (by architecture) as 70s/80s/90s chic.


User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8218 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 14872 times:

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 11):
I'm sure it works out fine for AS. They could bump NK into there at some point as well if space was needed.
Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 12):
Just curious why Terminal A isn't desirable by other airlines.

As I understand it it is the most expensive terminal at BOS, probably because it is also the newest. Not exactly a place for LCC's.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 12):
BOS isn't a very nice airport...1970s terminals with low ceilings abound.

Yes indeed, if this was 1995! Besides, you just described 90% of airport terminals in the US 
About the only areas in all of Logan that meet your description are the baggage claim area for terminals B and C as well as the checkin area for terminals B. Airside, they are all fairly modern. Terminal E is just as spacious and bright as terminal A, and so is terminal C.


User currently offlinecloudboy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 807 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 14788 times:

Does DL really need more gates? I never see all the gates they have now used, unless this is about a place to store the planes overnight. As for why move UA out - I think it is less giving Delta it's own terminal as much as having one terminal for Sky Team, one for Star, and one for One World.

Terminal A might be nice and modern, but it has a few drawbacks. You have that long tunnel most passengers have to go through; poorly planned restrooms; long jet bridges; and not enough baggage conveyors to start. The Security checkpoint is also too crowded - they need a better solution there for the number of people they handle.



"Six becoming three doesn't create more Americans that want to fly." -Adam Pilarski
User currently offlinedeltairlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8894 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 14702 times:

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 4):
In any case, Massport took over Terminal A following Delta's bankruptcy. So it is really Massport's decision whether Terminal A returns to being Delta only.

Yet the agreement in bankruptcy was to return only nine gates to Massport - six mainline gates and three parking spots in the (now obsolete) RJ pad. Given that no one seems to want the RJ parking spots (CO had taken one of the three available) and that two more gates were still available in addition to the four that CO had taken, I don't see anyone knocking on the door to come into Terminal A.


User currently offlineestabulla From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 18 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 14494 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 12):

Terminal E is new (at least the check-in area). Terminal C underwent renovations to allow a common TSA area.



estabulla
User currently offlineRobertS975 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 937 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 14072 times:
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Hopefully DL will bring back their Florida flights... RSW, TPA, FLL etc. They would have no trouble using those extra 4 CO gates.

User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3361 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 13803 times:

Quoting ipodguy7 (Reply 9):
DL 496 62,011
UA 335 41,434
US 495 53,552
AA 211 33,218

AA+US will be the largest legacy? How does that compare to B6?


User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7528 posts, RR: 28
Reply 19, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 13750 times:

Remember about a month ago that B6 announced BOS-DTW service starting in March 2014......

User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8218 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 13203 times:

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 18):
AA+US will be the largest legacy? How does that compare to B6?

You can use this site:
http://www.transtats.bts.gov/airports.asp?pn=1
Looks like B6 is around 28% market share.


User currently offlinejcarv From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 352 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 12762 times:

Terminal A lease rates are much higher than other terminals so no airlines wants to fork out the cash. I wish Massport would allow some E carriers to leave. That place is busting at seems in summer, only to get busier this summer. No plans are in the works for expanded Terminal E.

User currently offlinesteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9182 posts, RR: 18
Reply 22, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 12491 times:

I'd like to see them give BOS-PIT another go. Their initial effort with lousy CRJ service 3x daily was a failure from the start. B6 flies I think 2 or 3x daily with E90s, and US has 5x daily (3 E70s, 2 CRJs). With that service, did DL think they could compete against those two carriers with just 3x CRJs?

With AA and US merging, I wonder what equipment they'll use on PIT-BOS, a mix of E70s and perhaps an A319 or two thrown in? That would be sweet, but I'd be happy if AA Eagle had a mix of Republic E70/E75 equipment on there tho...

If DL should give that route another go, CRJ's aren't going to do squat, to put it bluntly...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineadamh8297 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 839 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 12427 times:

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 17):
Hopefully DL will bring back their Florida flights... RSW, TPA, FLL etc.

They are saving those for a rainy day .... the rainy day that B6 starts BOS-ATL.


User currently offlineupwardfacing From British Indian Ocean Territory, joined Apr 2013, 123 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 12293 times:

I am curious as to the reasoning behind this expansion, as it is not one of their transfer hubs, and is not New York or Los Angeles either.

User currently offlineMIflyer12 From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 968 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 12684 times:

BOS is the fifth-busiest U.S. airport for domestic O&D traffic, behind DEN and ahead of SFO. There's plenty of demand to lots of places.

User currently offlineCIDFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2273 posts, RR: 3
Reply 26, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 11906 times:

I flew on DL to BOS this past summer and was quite impressed with the operation they had there. Lots of DL planes going to many different places. Almost felt like a hub in some respects.

User currently offlinejetblue1058 From United States of America, joined Mar 2013, 120 posts, RR: 1
Reply 27, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 12045 times:

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 22):

No just no,
Support our LCC on the route with incredibly much better service, let alone always a mainline. PIT-BOS.
It's 4 daily on the 190. Not 2-3



JetBlue E190 seats, 5D and 16A= no better place in the world
User currently offlinetlecam From United States of America, joined Jul 2013, 218 posts, RR: 0
Reply 28, posted (8 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 11655 times:

"We continue to see a growing demand in Boston and increased flights next year will give our customers more direct service at more convenient times," said Bob Cortelyou, senior vice president –Network Planning. "Boston is a key domestic city in our network, and we are committed to providing service that continues to keep us the preferred airline of our customers."

http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=43&item=2174

From the press release. Sounds like Delta isn't done.

Does anyone know if Delta services the AirFrance or Alitalia ground ops in Boston? One potential way to alleviate terminal E is to move skyteam departures to terminal A, which would also improve whatever connections are routing through.

That satellite pier has limited airplane space though. Trying to fit an AF 777 or 747 would be a fascinating Tarmac dance. I have no idea what those gates support for aircraft type, so this may not be possible.

As it is next summer, Delta will have 4 wide bodies departing each night between the two AMS, LHR and the seasonal CDG flight which will be on a 767 this year.


User currently offlinebobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6449 posts, RR: 9
Reply 29, posted (8 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 11617 times:

Quoting upwardfacing (Reply 24):
I am curious as to the reasoning behind this expansion, as it is not one of their transfer hubs, and is not New York or Los Angeles either.


Please explain what a 'transfer hub" is and why Delta does not meet the defination in BOS?


User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8218 posts, RR: 10
Reply 30, posted (8 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 11477 times:

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 29):
Please explain what a 'transfer hub" is and why Delta does not meet the defination in BOS?

Ha!  
There's a common misconception that because BOS is not catagorized as a hub by any airline, that connections don't take place here. Every alliance does a fair share of connections at BOS, primarily internationl-domestic connections.


User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6712 posts, RR: 32
Reply 31, posted (8 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 11257 times:

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 4):

There are 21 gates in Terminal A. Isn't that too many for DL's market share?

Terminal A actually has 18 contact gates (8 at the main building and 10 at the satellite) and 7 RJ positions.

Quoting tlecam (Reply 28):
That satellite pier has limited airplane space though. Trying to fit an AF 777 or 747 would be a fascinating Tarmac dance. I have no idea what those gates support for aircraft type, so this may not be possible.

As it is next summer, Delta will have 4 wide bodies departing each night between the two AMS, LHR and the seasonal CDG flight which will be on a 767 this year.

The A330's to AMS aren't at the satellite at the same time so in reality only one gate is used for them (typically A14 if memory serves). A13 is still usable but A15 is blocked. The 764 to LHR departs from A19 which blocks A20. Things might get a bit tight in the late afternoon, though, since there are mainline departures to AMS, ATL, CDG, CVG, DTW, JFK, LAX, LGA, LHR, MSP, SLC all in the 5-7 PM time range. It might be possible to have LHR & CDG depart A18 & A20 which would only block A19 between them. But that's still a full house unless UA is out of the former CO gates by then.

Quoting NWBOS (Thread starter):
Nice to see DL flexing its muscle. Hopefully Terminal A can be DL only once UA and AS are out next year.

I didn't realize AS was leaving Terminal A. Where exactly can they go, considering that Terminal B will be full with AA/US & UA, Terminal C is becoming B6-only, and WN has all of E1A-E1E? And will DL take the United Club back which was originally a Crown Room Club?

Quoting airbazar (Reply 13):
About the only areas in all of Logan that meet your description are the baggage claim area for terminals B and C as well as the checkin area for terminals B. Airside, they are all fairly modern. Terminal E is just as spacious and bright as terminal A, and so is terminal C.

The C airsides are pretty much just spruced up 1960's structures. The renovation of the WN gate area (former Terminal D) isn't terrible but the ceilings are still low -- and the E airside still feels pretty 1970's. The E bag claim area -- especially domestic -- is awful, dark and lots of gray concrete.


User currently offlineupwardfacing From British Indian Ocean Territory, joined Apr 2013, 123 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (8 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 11092 times:

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 29):
Please explain what a 'transfer hub" is and why Delta does not meet the defination in BOS?

OK, edit to 'major transfer hub'.

In any case, BOS is not listed as a hub (of any kind) in Delta's current press releases. Actually neither is LAX.

http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=43&item=2174


User currently offlinejcarv From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 352 posts, RR: 0
Reply 33, posted (8 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 11052 times:

Delta does not ground handle any foreign carriers currently. There is talks that Air France May go back to Delta ground handling. Delta handled Air France below wing maybe 5 years ago. I could definitely see them possibly handling Virgin Atlantic in the future. They took over in JFK. As far as moving to Terminal A, I wouldn't count on it but it may be welcomed by some if it did.

User currently offlineJetBlueCLT From United States of America, joined Oct 2013, 98 posts, RR: 0
Reply 34, posted (8 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 11010 times:

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 22):
Quoting jetblue1058 (Reply 27):

No, Steeler83 is right. JetBlue operates 3 daily flights to PIT. 4 Daily on the peak days and two daily on Saturday and sometimes Wednesdays. Saturday of course is acceptable considering its the lowest day of travel in terms of passengers.



On the ground spotting JetBlue or sitting on a JetBlue plane at FL350
User currently offlinebobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6449 posts, RR: 9
Reply 35, posted (8 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 10874 times:

Quoting upwardfacing (Reply 32):
In any case, BOS is not listed as a hub (of any kind) in Delta's current press releases. Actually neither is LAX.


Delta is using is partially using its expanded Boston schedule to feed its international flights to LHR,AMS, and CDG whether it is a hub or not.


User currently offlineadamh8297 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 839 posts, RR: 0
Reply 36, posted (8 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 10639 times:

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 35):
Delta is using is partially using its expanded Boston schedule to feed its international flights to LHR,AMS, and CDG whether it is a hub or not.

Always surprised they don't try to feed BOS-BDA service. Its a bit too early (8:00am) of a departure from BOS as scheduled right now.

Quoting jetblue1058 (Reply 27):
No just no,
Support our LCC on the route with incredibly much better service, let alone always a mainline. PIT-BOS.
It's 4 daily on the 190. Not 2-3

People have the right to sit in an CRJ-900 and earn their DL skypennies or US dougie dividends. Its up to B6 to make one choose service over miles. It would help to get some international award redemption partners quickly though EK is in the works.


User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3133 posts, RR: 4
Reply 37, posted (8 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 10604 times:

Quoting jetblue1058 (Reply 27):
No just no,
Support our LCC on the route with incredibly much better service, let alone always a mainline. PIT-BOS.

   Use it or lose it (the low fares), as we've seen with PIT-JFK.



FLYi
User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 38, posted (8 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 10593 times:

Quoting jetblue1058 (Reply 27):
No just no,
Support our LCC on the route with incredibly much better service, let alone always a mainline. PIT-BOS.
It's 4 daily on the 190. Not 2-3

The problem is that JetBlue doesn't offer a good schedule for those from the PIT side, with the first flight arriving BOS at 10:22am. US' flight gets in at 8:19am. If one has a meeting at the client site in Boston at 9:30, US's flight is going to be better for the PIT based pax. The same thing is true with PHL. It makes it difficult to fully support them.

[Edited 2013-11-15 17:26:18]

User currently offlinetlecam From United States of America, joined Jul 2013, 218 posts, RR: 0
Reply 39, posted (8 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 9910 times:

Here is a fairly indepth article from CAPA on the Delta expansion in BOS. I just discovered this website, so I don't know how reputable it is - would appreciate other a.netter advice on that topic.

http://centreforaviation.com/analysi...p-with-new-market-roll-outs-139724


User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4234 posts, RR: 6
Reply 40, posted (8 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 9373 times:

Quoting tlecam (Reply 28):
Does anyone know if Delta services the AirFrance or Alitalia ground ops in Boston? One potential way to alleviate terminal E is to move skyteam departures to terminal A, which would also improve whatever connections are routing through.

This was actually the original plan for Terminal A in BOS when it first opened. It was supposed to house all the SkyTeam airlines. 9-11 changed those plans big time. If DL was to do this, one thing DL could do would be to move some narrowbody flights to the main terminal using the gates that UA will be giving up soon. This would free up some widebody space on the A concourse where you may lose gates by housing widebodies. This would be somewhat desirable for US to Europe connections because transferring from Terminal A to Terminal E is the longest transfer possible in Boston plus it also requires TSA clearance again upon arrival in E. The other way, E to A cannot be helped, but it is only one stop on an 11 bus, and TSA would be required again in any event.



Quoting jcarv (Reply 33):
Delta does not ground handle any foreign carriers currently. There is talks that Air France May go back to Delta ground handling. Delta handled Air France below wing maybe 5 years ago. I could definitely see them possibly handling Virgin Atlantic in the future. They took over in JFK. As far as moving to Terminal A, I wouldn't count on it but it may be welcomed by some if it did.

Virgin years ago used to use what is now gate B37, and shared it with United who used it as an overflow gate at peak times. They have been in terminal E for a while. If you were to move them to A, you could convert the United Club into an Upper Class Lounge I suppose. BOS all depends on what they want to do jointly from there, but remember that US/AA becomes the second biggest carrier in BOS with the merger, and while I don't expect them to resume LHR, they can get quite a bit of feed for BA there.


User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8218 posts, RR: 10
Reply 41, posted (8 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 9227 times:

Quoting apodino (Reply 40):
The other way, E to A cannot be helped, but it is only one stop on an 11 bus, and TSA would be required again in any event.

With the AA/US and UA/CO merger and consolidation into terminal B, it's my opinion that Massport needs to start to seriously consider airside bus transfers between E and A/B terminals. DL/UA/AA all do a fair amount of transfers at BOS for international flights. I think an airside bus transfer is a relatively inexpensive option for a big gain in transfer efficiency.


User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4234 posts, RR: 6
Reply 42, posted (8 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 8590 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 41):

With the AA/US and UA/CO merger and consolidation into terminal B, it's my opinion that Massport needs to start to seriously consider airside bus transfers between E and A/B terminals. DL/UA/AA all do a fair amount of transfers at BOS for international flights. I think an airside bus transfer is a relatively inexpensive option for a big gain in transfer efficiency.

E would be a very tricky one logistically for an airside bus as all the gates are on the third level, and pax departing from any gate other than the E1 cluster actually have to go down a set of stairs to reach the jetway, and I believe logistically it is pretty tough to drop pax off rampside and get them to the third floor while maintaining security protocols. That being said, I do remember back the early 90's, when NW used BOS as a focus city, the Airlink operation was a busing operation, that bussed pax from I believe Gate 5 over to a hardstand in the North Cargo area. I am not sure how the pax actually got to the ramp to board the buses from Gate 5. Also, AC had a similar setup when the CRJ came online while they were in E, before they moved to C.


User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8218 posts, RR: 10
Reply 43, posted (8 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 8201 times:

Quoting apodino (Reply 42):
E would be a very tricky one logistically for an airside bus as all the gates are on the third level, and pax departing from any gate other than the E1 cluster actually have to go down a set of stairs to reach the jetway, and I believe logistically it is pretty tough to drop pax off rampside and get them to the third floor while maintaining security protocols.

You're right. What about the old terminal D? With C and E being connected airside in the near term, any space between the 2 terminals, should be doable.


User currently offlinebluefltspecial From United States of America, joined Sep 2013, 87 posts, RR: 0
Reply 44, posted (8 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 7689 times:

Maybe someone remembers this too...

When Delta wanted to build Term A in BOS they wanted to have their own FIS but Massport said no since Term E wasn't heavily utilized.

Now with Term E "bursting at the seams" as someone put it in summer, is this something they can go back and look at redoing?

If they had I can only assume that the Main Terminal gates in A would have been used otherwise you would have to reclaim your bags twice a la MCO International arrivals...

Thoughts?



Every journey begins with a single airplane...
User currently offlineby738 From Tonga, joined Sep 2000, 2266 posts, RR: 1
Reply 45, posted (8 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 7299 times:

Could a summer only BOS-GLA work with a mainline carrier such as DL ?

User currently offlineadamh8297 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 839 posts, RR: 0
Reply 46, posted (8 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7102 times:

Quoting by738 (Reply 45):
Could a summer only BOS-GLA work with a mainline carrier such as DL ?

BOS-GLA traffic has taken a hit in recent years though it wouldn't surprise me if DL tried a seasonal point-to-point Transatlantic route someday especially if the interest in expanding BOS is more about creating something than defending something.

Here's the top 10 Transatlantic Routes not served from BOS that would not be ULH (i.e BOM and DEL)

TLV
BCN
MXP
CPH
MAN
BRU
GVA
TXL
VCE
ARN

Advantages:

These routes would be part of JV thus Air France/KLM can market.
DL could reach all except TLV with international configured 757

Disadvantages:

The routes, especially from CPH on down, may be too thin for seasonal service.
You may have to depend on connections in BOS since the connections on the other ends are rather minimal.
You may weaken routes (if) served from JFK.
Turkish Airlines undercutting the market. (I've read stories on flyertalk about folks already booking BOS-IST-Italy)


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 47, posted (8 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 7012 times:

The BOS-LGA shuttle on DL will also be getting an upgauge shortly..


What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4234 posts, RR: 6
Reply 48, posted (8 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6913 times:

Quoting by738 (Reply 45):
Could a summer only BOS-GLA work with a mainline carrier such as DL ?

Interestingly enough, this was a NW route back in the 90's that they flew with a DC-10. I am not sure the O and D is there on either end, even to fill a 757, so I doubt this would work.

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 46):
Here's the top 10 Transatlantic Routes not served from BOS that would not be ULH (i.e BOM and DEL)

TLV
BCN
MXP
CPH
MAN
BRU
GVA
TXL
VCE
ARN

TLV is at the top of the list, and considering the huge Jewish population that lives in the Boston area, this will be an EL AL route flown with a 787 when they can get them.

As for other cities mentioned, TXL won't happen, but if they ever get BER open, this could happen but it will involve LH, and no one in SkyTeam. BRU was a long time route that disappeared when Sabena went under. I wonder if Brussels Airways will try BOS in the future. MXP is a route that I think DL could make work, especially if AZ gets their house in order. MAN was actually served briefly by BA before they moved all int'l ops to London. The other routes are a bit of a stretch on here IMO, and I doubt DL would fly any of them, and a foreign carrier may have difficulty as well. Time will tell.


User currently offlinebobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6449 posts, RR: 9
Reply 49, posted (8 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6863 times:

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 46):
BOS-GLA traffic has taken a hit in recent years though it wouldn't surprise me if DL tried a seasonal point-to-point Transatlantic route someday especially if the interest in expanding BOS is more about creating something than defending something.


If Delta wanted to fly to Scotland then I believe Edinburgh would be a better choice


User currently offlineadamh8297 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 839 posts, RR: 0
Reply 50, posted (8 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6853 times:

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 49):
If Delta wanted to fly to Scotland then I believe Edinburgh would be a better choice

Correct - EDI is only 39 miles away from Glasgow city center.

Also both Edinburgh and Glasgow combined would put it slightly ahead of CPH.


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 51, posted (8 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6833 times:

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 50):
Correct - EDI is only 39 miles away from Glasgow city center.

Also both Edinburgh and Glasgow combined would put it slightly ahead of CPH.

If they can only makde CPH work seasonally from JFK IDK how we'd get to BOS-CPH.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineadamh8297 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 839 posts, RR: 0
Reply 52, posted (8 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6791 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 51):
If they can only makde CPH work seasonally from JFK IDK how we'd get to BOS-CPH.

I don't think it would work either.

Quoting apodino (Reply 48):
TLV is at the top of the list, and considering the huge Jewish population that lives in the Boston area, this will be an EL AL route flown with a 787 when they can get them.

BOS is begging for TLV but no one is biting. LY would use the 787 for MIA before BOS. TK's future presence is a big deterrent to LY. DL trying it would be interesting and a bit out of the box to say the least

Quoting apodino (Reply 48):
MAN was actually served briefly by BA before they moved all int'l ops to London.

Last BOS-MAN service was seasonal coach-only 757 on AA.

Quoting apodino (Reply 48):
MXP is a route that I think DL could make work, especially if AZ gets their house in order

AZ gave up on MXP -it only would offer the following connections from BOS: CAI, DME, and TUS, BEY on ME, PRG on CZ, MAD on UX and the Skyteam EuroHubs: CDG/AMS.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7832 posts, RR: 52
Reply 53, posted (8 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 6699 times:

I just don't see DL expanding their BOS TATL ops anytime soon. Unless something changes, I don't see anything more than BOS-CDG/AMS/LHR. Too bad, they used to be pretty strong in BOS (or at least stronger than they are now)


Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineHVNandrew From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 428 posts, RR: 0
Reply 54, posted (8 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6536 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 53):
I just don't see DL expanding their BOS TATL ops anytime soon. Unless something changes, I don't see anything more than BOS-CDG/AMS/LHR. Too bad, they used to be pretty strong in BOS (or at least stronger than they are now)

From a TATL standpoint, they've never been stronger. Previously DL's only foray into the TATL market ex-BOS was a one off and very short lived flight to LGW in the early 2000s.

DL is still pretty strong in BOS on the domestic front, too. You could argue that they're in the best position of all the legacies there. They don't have a BEX operation there anymore, but neither does anyone else. They still have a solid mainline operation to hubs and other select, large DL cities, and a decent regional P2P network.


User currently offlineMIflyer12 From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 968 posts, RR: 0
Reply 55, posted (8 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6514 times:

Quoting tlecam (Reply 39):
Here is a fairly indepth article from CAPA on the Delta expansion in BOS. I just discovered this website, so I don't know how reputable it is - would appreciate other a.netter advice on that topic.

http://centreforaviation.com/analysi...39724

I don't see anyone else has responded to you directly. CAPA analysis varies. One idea advanced here, increasing flights into BOS to feed the Virgin Atlantic LHR flight, seems a little feebly reasoned to me. DL has had ints own BOS-LHR flight for a while, it is scheduled to depart about the same time as VS, and few DL destinations into BOS aren't already served into LHR by other DL hubs (or direct to LON by DL/VS).

Big fonts, lots of charts, tiresome repetition - that's often how CAPA rolls to make it seem like there's something there.


User currently offlinenickofatlanta From Australia, joined May 2000, 1485 posts, RR: 0
Reply 56, posted (8 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6477 times:

Good to see the new second daily BOS-LAX flight now allows for connections to/from the LAX-SYD flight.

User currently offlinejcarv From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 352 posts, RR: 0
Reply 57, posted (8 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6270 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 47):

They are changing the Shuttle aircraft again? What will it be now?


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7832 posts, RR: 52
Reply 58, posted (8 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 6197 times:

Quoting HVNandrew (Reply 54):
You could argue that they're in the best position of all the legacies there.

Without double checking the numbers, I would agree, but B6 has been a huge game changer

Quoting HVNandrew (Reply 54):
From a TATL standpoint, they've never been stronger

Interesting. I mainly meant I don't see them starting some of the routes mentioned (basically anything other than CDG, AMS, or LHR.)



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8218 posts, RR: 10
Reply 59, posted (8 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 6078 times:

Quoting bluefltspecial (Reply 44):

Now with Term E "bursting at the seams" as someone put it in summer, is this something they can go back and look at redoing?

Since CBP is funded by the Feds and not Massport, I doubt that in these times of sequester, etc, they would be willing to expand BOS operations.


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 60, posted (8 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 6066 times:

Quoting jcarv (Reply 57):
They are changing the Shuttle aircraft again? What will it be now?

Mainline. I'll let you guess the equipment type.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineMesaFlyGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 2941 posts, RR: 4
Reply 61, posted (8 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 6007 times:
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Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 60):
Quoting jcarv (Reply 57):They are changing the Shuttle aircraft again? What will it be now?Mainline. I'll let you guess the equipment type.

a319s coming back?



\________(---)________/ :) World's most beautiful aircraft: 757-200, MD-88/90, E-190, A321
User currently offlinetlecam From United States of America, joined Jul 2013, 218 posts, RR: 0
Reply 62, posted (8 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5912 times:

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 55):

Thanks! Very helpful.

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 60):

I fly the shuttle regularly - I will be interested to see what they do here.

TATL has seen slow growth from the pmNW flights to AMS. LHR service was upgauged to a 764 from 763 at some point , which surprised me to be honest. Seasonal CDG service will be on a 763 in S14.

Expansion beyond that will be limited I think. DL seems to focus mostly on hub and business travel. Not exclusively, as the LAs flights show. However, I'm not sure that I see them launching leisure TATL flights. If AZ ever sorts itself out and puts the hub in Milan where it belongs for commerce, that could be a possibility. As someone noted, there isn't much for connecting flights out of Milan these days and AZ couldn't get the flight to work. Not that AZ should be a barometer for anyone else.


User currently offlinejcarv From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 352 posts, RR: 0
Reply 63, posted (8 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5887 times:

I would guess B717s for sure. Perfect, no?

User currently offlineMesaFlyGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 2941 posts, RR: 4
Reply 64, posted (8 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5887 times:
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Quoting jcarv (Reply 63):
I would guess B717s for sure. Perfect, no?

I thought the 717s were to help replacing the 50-seaters. Since there are very little CRJ-200s at LGA there would be no point in the 717s being there when there are heaps of a319s at LGA to rotate in from the rest of the system very easily. I would LOVE to see the 717s at LGA, but I don't think it would make sense.

I'm wondering that, if the a319s are added to the shuttle service from LGA, would they keep the split operation between the E-Jets on the West Coast and the a319s on the east coast?



\________(---)________/ :) World's most beautiful aircraft: 757-200, MD-88/90, E-190, A321
User currently offlinealfa164 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 396 posts, RR: 0
Reply 65, posted (8 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 5781 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 60):
Mainline. I'll let you guess the equipment type.

I am thinking 717's. The 717's were sought to replace the larger RJ's; then the larger RJ's will be deployed to replace the 50-seaters.

Makes sense.


User currently offlineby738 From Tonga, joined Sep 2000, 2266 posts, RR: 1
Reply 66, posted (8 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 5625 times:

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 49):
If Delta wanted to fly to Scotland then I believe Edinburgh would be a better choice

They now have so much competition now with ORD, IAD, YYZ , PHL and EWR, I would have thought GLA might be a more interesting choice, esp with GLA/BOS historical links. Looks like BOS would offer some decent connection opportunities also and not just O+D


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 67, posted (8 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 5560 times:

Quoting jcarv (Reply 63):
I would guess B717s for sure. Perfect, no?

Exactly right.

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 64):
I thought the 717s were to help replacing the 50-seaters. Since there are very little CRJ-200s at LGA there would be no point in the 717s being there when there are heaps of a319s at LGA to rotate in from the rest of the system very easily. I would LOVE to see the 717s at LGA, but I don't think it would make sense.

Very common internet misconception. The 717s are not direct CR2 replacements. So just because there weren't many CR2s at LGA doesn't mean you won't see them. The 717s is to replace CAPACITY loss. Overall capacity at Delta will be flat to slightly down with the offloading of the 50 seaters as well as 757s, older 320s and 76Qs they begin to retire with the CR9s, 717s, and 739s coming online.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineMesaFlyGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 2941 posts, RR: 4
Reply 68, posted (8 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 5318 times:
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Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 67):
Very common internet misconception. The 717s are not direct CR2 replacements. So just because there weren't many CR2s at LGA doesn't mean you won't see them. The 717s is to replace CAPACITY loss. Overall capacity at Delta will be flat to slightly down with the offloading of the 50 seaters as well as 757s, older 320s and 76Qs they begin to retire with the CR9s, 717s, and 739s coming online.

Thanks! I get it the way you said it.  

I'm excited to see the 717s coming to LGA! I'm thinking they'll be quieter in F with the engines all the way in the back (not that the E-Jets and Airbus' are exactly loud in any way, shape, or form. 

When is this supposed to be put into place? We can probably assume they'll want to have 10-15 frames in the fleet before they put them on shuttle duty so sometime in Q2 or Q3 2014?



\________(---)________/ :) World's most beautiful aircraft: 757-200, MD-88/90, E-190, A321
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 69, posted (8 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 5042 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 67):

What i've yet to figure out yet is if the 321s is for growth. By my math, it seems so (could be wrong).



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinetu154 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 375 posts, RR: 4
Reply 70, posted (8 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 4873 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 13):
Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 12):
BOS isn't a very nice airport...1970s terminals with low ceilings abound.

Which is probably the last time you were in BOS, the 1970's.............

[Edited 2013-11-24 19:38:20]


FIRST ON THE ATLANTIC.....FIRST ON THE PACIFIC.....FIRST IN LATIN AMERICA...FIRST 'ROUND THE WORLD.....PAN AM!!
User currently offlineroberts975 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 937 posts, RR: 0
Reply 71, posted (8 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4414 times:
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Quoting NWBOS (Thread starter):
Hopefully Terminal A can be DL only once UA and AS are out next year.



This is the first that any of us have heard that AS is moving out of terminal A. Is this AS move actually confirmed? From my own experience on their flights from BOS to SEA, PDX and SAN, there is a very substantial percentage of DL frequent fliers that use these nonstop flights.


User currently offlineVS11 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1109 posts, RR: 0
Reply 72, posted (8 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4242 times:

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 49):

If Delta wanted to fly to Scotland then I believe Edinburgh would be a better choice

That's not a terribly far-fetched idea for a seasonal flight. The flight could be used in packages marketed by Virgin Holidays. I think VS operated some package tours flights out of Scotland (I could be wrong though).


User currently offlinejcarv From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 352 posts, RR: 0
Reply 73, posted (8 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4143 times:

Quoting roberts975 (Reply 71):

I think it is an assumption but an accurate one at that. Delta is set to stop ground handling AS flights in Spring '14 so a move is assumed once a new ground handler is selected. AS has no employees in BOS. Maybe the new AAL will do it.


User currently offlinebluefltspecial From United States of America, joined Sep 2013, 87 posts, RR: 0
Reply 74, posted (8 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3884 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 47):
The BOS-LGA shuttle on DL will also be getting an upgauge shortly..

As much as I would love to see the 717 on the Shuttle I highly doubt it will happen.

With flights during the week operating at half capacity (or often times much less) on a E170/175 it makes NO sense to increase capacity. The only route that is often completely full is BOS-LGA-BOS and that's only on Mon/Fri during morning and evening runs. I'm on them ALL the time and I just can't see them justifying and upgrade to a 717. The aircraft is heavier and has a higher fuel burn and will operate with even more empty seats, it's wishful thinking and that's it. Trust me, I'd love to see the 717 on the route too, I just don't see it in my crystal ball.

Acela and modern technology allowing virtual conferencing have taken their toll on the business market NYC and hourly Shuttle service is barely profitable at best. First Class remains full on all flights but more than 50% of these are tin foil upgraders.

The Chicago shuttle is another odd ball, I've been on full flights and then most recently on a flight with first full and maybe a handful of people in the back.

The only way you'll see a mainline aircraft on those routes is if they decide to cherry pick the operation and put mainline on morning and evening departures on Mondays and Fridays and keep S5 on the rest of the flying.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for us tho - but I won't hold my breath.



Every journey begins with a single airplane...
User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4234 posts, RR: 6
Reply 75, posted (8 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3778 times:

Quoting jcarv (Reply 73):
I think it is an assumption but an accurate one at that. Delta is set to stop ground handling AS flights in Spring '14 so a move is assumed once a new ground handler is selected. AS has no employees in BOS. Maybe the new AAL will do it.

That timeframe would coincide with the terminal B construction completion and the move of UA to Terminal B. I have a feeling there will be more than one airline involved in that move. It is possible that if AA stays where they are, that AS could take over the B37 gate in terminal B, and use AA/US to handle them. Very interesting to see how BOS plays out with both the UA move and the US/AA merger.

Quoting bluefltspecial (Reply 74):
As much as I would love to see the 717 on the Shuttle I highly doubt it will happen.

With flights during the week operating at half capacity (or often times much less) on a E170/175 it makes NO sense to increase capacity. The only route that is often completely full is BOS-LGA-BOS and that's only on Mon/Fri during morning and evening runs. I'm on them ALL the time and I just can't see them justifying and upgrade to a 717. The aircraft is heavier and has a higher fuel burn and will operate with even more empty seats, it's wishful thinking and that's it. Trust me, I'd love to see the 717 on the route too, I just don't see it in my crystal ball.

Acela and modern technology allowing virtual conferencing have taken their toll on the business market NYC and hourly Shuttle service is barely profitable at best. First Class remains full on all flights but more than 50% of these are tin foil upgraders.

The Chicago shuttle is another odd ball, I've been on full flights and then most recently on a flight with first full and maybe a handful of people in the back.

The only way you'll see a mainline aircraft on those routes is if they decide to cherry pick the operation and put mainline on morning and evening departures on Mondays and Fridays and keep S5 on the rest of the flying.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for us tho - but I won't hold my breath.

There is one other aspect in play here, and that is Shuttle America's operation of the DL shuttle. Shuttle America has a sizeable LGA operation as it is for DL. That being said, I do not know if the MAT has a crew room, and if a plane goes tech over at the MAC, I am not sure how difficult or long it takes to move one from C or D over to the MAT. Assuming that DL does go to 717's in LGA, and also assuming that the shuttle is the only route that the 717 would operate in LGA (Which is a big assumption and probably not an accurate one), then mainline would be justified because the 717 fleet could operate its own crew facilities in the MAT, and the 717 would be dedicated there, so no need to repo planes from C and D over to MAT.

That being said, I don't see an upgrade as likely. If you look at the big three, and then look at the shuttle markets (BOS, ORD, and DCA), AA is by far the dominant carrier (after the US merger), on these routes and will have a bulk of the FFs. The MAT may help a bit with marketshare, but I don't suspect that DL will carry more on these routes that AA.


User currently offlineDTWPurserBoy From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 1578 posts, RR: 7
Reply 76, posted (8 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3570 times:

I am happy to see such growth in BOS for DL. Moving the flights from ORF to RIC makes since there is a lot of traffic that originates out of there. But I would also say ( as I have in the past) that BOS-PHF on an Embraer or C900 about 3-4X daily would do very well. Air Tran's departure has left a big hole and while US does a lot of business out of there I can't see leaving the market to the new AA. The proposed new PeoplExpress is totally moribund, as usual--no news there at all. Northbound services our of RIC have done very well and I would look to see 717's popping up to be used for international connections out of JFK--maybe one or two per day at peak periods.


Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
User currently offlinebobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6449 posts, RR: 9
Reply 77, posted (8 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3584 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 53):
Too bad, they used to be pretty strong in BOS (or at least stronger than they are now)


If you are referring to TATL, then DL is much stronger today then it was ever was in the past.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7832 posts, RR: 52
Reply 78, posted (8 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3480 times:

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 77):
If you are referring to TATL, then DL is much stronger today then it was ever was in the past.

I meant overall. I'm not too familiar with the history of DL at BOS but weren't they a lot bigger overall before B6 rolled in?



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineBDL757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 149 posts, RR: 0
Reply 79, posted (8 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3459 times:

Quoting bluefltspecial (Reply 74):
As much as I would love to see the 717 on the Shuttle I highly doubt it will happen.

We've been told in various employee meetings and such that the 717s will begin operating LGA-BOS-LGA in the 1st quarter of 2014. Although, as you point out, I don't know if it will be a few select flights each day at peak times.


User currently offlineHVNandrew From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 428 posts, RR: 0
Reply 80, posted (8 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3313 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 78):
I meant overall. I'm not too familiar with the history of DL at BOS but weren't they a lot bigger overall before B6 rolled in?

Well, it depends on what you're looking at. In terms of number of flights per day, DL used to be significantly larger in BOS - the BEx operation was huge in the 90s. But that came way before B6 and is unrelated. The biggest change on the domestic front since B6 started BOS service is DL's Florida network ex-BOS. That used to be pretty substantial, and it is now pretty much gone with the exception of MCO. Other than that regional might be down a little bit, but I don't think it's very significant; and mainline with the exception of Florida has remained relatively consistent and is now expanding again. Plus as mentioned there's a huge increase in TATL service.

My guess is taking all of the above into account the seats in and out of BOS are not down all that much since B6 started service, but DL's network out of BOS is just very different than 10 years ago.


User currently offlineNWBOS From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 157 posts, RR: 2
Reply 81, posted (8 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3170 times:

Quoting BDL757 (Reply 79):
We've been told in various employee meetings and such that the 717s will begin operating LGA-BOS-LGA in the 1st quarter of 2014. Although, as you point out, I don't know if it will be a few select flights each day at peak times.


We have also been told that the plan is currently to move out of the Marine Air Terminal in LGA (this idea has been floated around a lot over the past couple years, but so far hasn't been acted upon). No one seems to know if this will mean to the Shuttle product and fare structure, as they would be able to build connections through LGA from BOS using the Shuttle. I don't know how this will play out. I know the business travelers greatly prefer the MAT for ease of ground transportation and quick security, so I assume there will be some blowback if this plan is executed.


User currently offlinetlecam From United States of America, joined Jul 2013, 218 posts, RR: 0
Reply 82, posted (8 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2940 times:

I have heard anecdotally several times now that Delta would like all of Terminal A.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 78):
I meant overall. I'm not too familiar with the history of DL at BOS but weren't they a lot bigger overall before B6 rolled in?

Several of the legacies were bigger at Logan before B6 rolled in as well as prior to the economic issues during the latter half of the last decade. US, DL and AA all ran Logan as an "important" city for most of this century, running flights to the hubs plus to other destinations. United, Continental and NWA had a somewhat smaller presence. B6 has taken marketshare from most of the legacies at Logan. They have never had this intl presence though.


User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8218 posts, RR: 10
Reply 83, posted (8 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2870 times:

Quoting HVNandrew (Reply 80):
My guess is taking all of the above into account the seats in and out of BOS are not down all that much since B6 started service, but DL's network out of BOS is just very different than 10 years ago.

I wouldn't be so sure. DL had a ton of 757 and 767 domestic flights from BOS back them. But analysing the growth over hte last 10 years is very deceiving because of where DL has been in the last 10 years. By 2005-2006 DL was probably at an all time low at BOS for many reasons, least of all was B6 coming to BOS. First came 9/11, then BOS lost a terminal in order to build the new terminal A, essentially starving the airport of growth, then came the bankrupcy in 2005 which cut even more flights. A more reasonable comparison is between now and pre 9/11 and as you pointed outm they were bigger.


User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3387 posts, RR: 5
Reply 84, posted (8 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2814 times:

Quoting tu154 (Reply 70):
Which is probably the last time you were in BOS, the 1970's.............

I'm there all the time. Tell me about the US/AA checkin area/parking garage structure that looks like a cement tomb.

The cool Terminal C concourses...narrow, low ceilings. Oh, and when you leave, and I'm still there....the rats come out and jump around the gate areas.

The connector to Terminal E? Look for Shelly Long and Ted Danson to pop out on their way to catch their TWA flight.

I give credit to Massport for adding new glass walkways and a new roadway system. This is how the JFK redevelopment started.

Improving lighting/signage/bathrooms has really brightened things up a bit.

But much like B6 did with T6, this just puts a fresh touch on a 40 year old building


User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3389 posts, RR: 2
Reply 85, posted (8 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2750 times:

Any room at BOS for an established entrant with say 20 flights a day?


"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 86, posted (8 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2711 times:

Quoting bluefltspecial (Reply 74):
As much as I would love to see the 717 on the Shuttle I highly doubt it will happen.

This isn't an assumption on my part. It's a fact. They're slated to start in April.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineadamh8297 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 839 posts, RR: 0
Reply 87, posted (8 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2670 times:

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 85):
Any room at BOS for an established entrant with say 20 flights a day?

This scenario happened a couple years ago with WN moving in and pretty much establishing themselves with mostly midwestern destinations.


User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8218 posts, RR: 10
Reply 88, posted (8 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2612 times:

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 85):
Any room at BOS for an established entrant with say 20 flights a day?

Yes, at terminal A but who would that be?

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 84):
I'm there all the time. Tell me about the US/AA checkin area/parking garage structure that looks like a cement tomb.

Right, that's about the worst part of BOS as some of us pointed out. However the parking garage was newly remodelled last year. But what exactly do you expect from a parking garage other than a concrete tomb? 
Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 84):
The cool Terminal C concourses...narrow, low ceilings. Oh, and when you leave, and I'm still there....the rats come out and jump around the gate areas.

Like i said no different than 90% of airports in this country. I've experienced far more "crampness" at DEN or ORD, than I have a teminal C in BOS for the simple fact that it's a O&D terminal. You go from gate to curb in 5 minutes. People don't spend too much time lingering around waiting for connections. The question is: can it cope with the demand? It does. Is it dark? No, far from it, it's lined with bright windows. And more so now. Do you hit your head on the ceiling? No. Lower ceilings equal less heating and cooling bills and that's kind of important in NE. Why do you think terminal A has the highest rent in BOS? Having said that I do agree that parts of the terminal need a fres coat of paint and nicer decoration. I'm sure that wil lcome once B6 takes over the entire terminal.
 
Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 84):
The connector to Terminal E?

They're building a new one which should eliminate the need for anyone to ever use this old "tunnel"  


User currently offlineDTWPurserBoy From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 1578 posts, RR: 7
Reply 89, posted (8 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2529 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 86):
Quoting bluefltspecial (Reply 74):As much as I would love to see the 717 on the Shuttle I highly doubt it will happen.
This isn't an assumption on my part. It's a fact. They're slated to start in April.

Referring to DL's services from LGA-BOS and DCA-LGA are not really "shuttles" per se. Eastern's concept of the shuttle meant no reservations, no seat assignments, pay for your ticket onboard and a guaranteed seat for every passenger that showed up for a flight. They always kept backup planes and crews available. We used to joke that the Shuttle flight attendants had a two word vocabulary--"Fares, please." But it was a great service and a great social equalizer. You could find yourself sitting next to anyone from Senator Kennedy to Geraldine Ferraro. They were great flights for people watching. When Eastern put the A300 on the LGA-BOS shuttle it became a real headache--the two airplanes they used were from Iran Air that were never delivered and were substantially different on the interior than Eastern's own A300's.



Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
User currently offlineroberts975 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 937 posts, RR: 0
Reply 90, posted (8 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2346 times:
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I will continue to feel that a piece of DL is missing in BOS until the direct Florida routes are resurrected: FLL, TPA, RSW and PBI. The argument that they are low yield and that DL doesn't want to compete with B6 or WN is somewhat specious in that DL charges the same fares anyway, just with the added expense (to DL) of a connection.

And as for the BOS-LGA shuttle, EA would run L-1011s on days like today, the day before Thanksgiving.


User currently offlinebobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6449 posts, RR: 9
Reply 91, posted (8 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2213 times:

Quoting roberts975 (Reply 90):
I will continue to feel that a piece of DL is missing in BOS until the direct Florida routes are resurrected: FLL, TPA, RSW and PBI. The argument that they are low yield and that DL doesn't want to compete with B6 or WN is somewhat specious in that DL charges the same fares anyway, just with the added expense (to DL) of a connection.


Are you saying tha the costs to Delta if it flew non-stop BOS-TPA/FLL/RSW/PBI would be the same as via ATL? I believe the costs non stop are greater and Delta would lose money on every passenger carried to Florida under todays fares


User currently offlineadamh8297 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 839 posts, RR: 0
Reply 92, posted (8 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1938 times:

Quoting roberts975 (Reply 90):
The argument that they are low yield and that DL doesn't want to compete with B6 or WN is somewhat specious in that DL charges the same fares anyway, just with the added expense (to DL) of a connection.
Quoting bobnwa (Reply 91):
Are you saying tha the costs to Delta if it flew non-stop BOS-TPA/FLL/RSW/PBI would be the same as via ATL? I believe the costs non stop are greater and Delta would lose money on every passenger carried to Florida under todays fares

DL's CASM is obviously higher than B6's. However, they probably get a decent RASM on BOS-ATL O+D allowing them throw a few cheap fare buckets on BOS-ATL-Florida. This allows DL to attempt to dilute yields of a competitor.

BOS-Florida Armageddon will start once B6 decides to return to ATL. Roberts975 will get his wish.


User currently offlinebluefltspecial From United States of America, joined Sep 2013, 87 posts, RR: 0
Reply 93, posted (8 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 1908 times:

Quoting BDL757 (Reply 79):
Quoting bluefltspecial (Reply 74):
As much as I would love to see the 717 on the Shuttle I highly doubt it will happen.

We've been told in various employee meetings and such that the 717s will begin operating LGA-BOS-LGA in the 1st quarter of 2014. Although, as you point out, I don't know if it will be a few select flights each day at peak times.
Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 86):

Quoting bluefltspecial (Reply 74):
As much as I would love to see the 717 on the Shuttle I highly doubt it will happen.

This isn't an assumption on my part. It's a fact. They're slated to start in April.

Awesome to know! I just would have assumed the schedules would have been loaded by now. Do you know when they plan to load to schedules for those flights?



Every journey begins with a single airplane...
User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4234 posts, RR: 6
Reply 94, posted (7 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1274 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 83):
I wouldn't be so sure. DL had a ton of 757 and 767 domestic flights from BOS back them. But analysing the growth over hte last 10 years is very deceiving because of where DL has been in the last 10 years. By 2005-2006 DL was probably at an all time low at BOS for many reasons, least of all was B6 coming to BOS. First came 9/11, then BOS lost a terminal in order to build the new terminal A, essentially starving the airport of growth, then came the bankrupcy in 2005 which cut even more flights. A more reasonable comparison is between now and pre 9/11 and as you pointed outm they were bigger.

BOS only temporarily lost the terminal but didn't lose on growth because the old terminal A only had 14 gates, where the new terminal has 22 or so gates.

One interesting thing to note is that AA will actually have more BOS gates post merger than DL, because DL has 22 gates in Terminal A, and AA will own 24 gates post merger. (The two gates being divested are currently used by AC and not US or AA). That being said, I don't expect AA to operate too many P2P routes after the merger. You may see BUF, ROC, PIT, and RIC stick around, but most of the BOS flights will be mainline to LGA, JFK, DCA, DFW, MIA, ORD, PHL, CLT, PHX, and LAX.) I do suspect that B6 and DL will continue to duke it out in BOS, where AA will do well on some of the other routes. (Though B6 does compete on just about every AA route now as well, save for possibly MIA)


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 95, posted (7 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1210 times:

Quoting bluefltspecial (Reply 93):
some to know! I just would have assumed the schedules would have been loaded by now. Do you know when they plan to load to schedules for those flights?

*Hard* final schedules usually aren't loaded until about 2-3 months out at best for domestic flights.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7528 posts, RR: 28
Reply 96, posted (7 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1146 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 95):

*Hard* final schedules usually aren't loaded until about 2-3 months out at best for domestic flights.

Exactly, considering they are still playing around with the final DC-9 flights a month out, and the 717 flying for Jan/Feb.


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