Sabenapilot From Belgium, joined Feb 2000, 2738 posts, RR: 45
Reply 3, posted (13 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1517 times:
I don't know what's wrong with you... Maybe you've spent too much time on this forum?
Go outside and get some fresh air.
In case Sabena would not survive the current troubles (which I very much doubt) then it will be because Swissair did not invest the 200 millions SFR as previously agreed!
The strike has nothing to do with it!
In fact Swissair now openly proves what the BeCA said all week long, i.e. the business plan of Mr. Muller is a fraud as the financial aspect of it is totally unclear.
BTW, SR was supposed to pay AOM-Air Liberté 50 millions SFR yesterday, but didn't do so eighter. I suppose you are blaiming that on the BeCA as well?
(If you care to reply, please do so by posting facts i.s.o. smilies which seem to me nothing more then a way of covering up your lack of competence)
Tripple7 From Netherlands, joined Aug 1999, 539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (13 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1495 times:
Unfortunately, but I think this is the best thing that can happen to the airline industry in Europe. For many years there has been overcapacity financed by the governments of national carriers (e.g. Sabena, Alitalia and Air France). They made competition unfair since these companies used these monies to compete on low fares. Also the introduction of low fare carriers has been quite a big hit for the established carriers. Some could not compete anymore in this environment because of really bad management (swissair group, Swissair and Sabena). Don't start saying because it is caused by the events on September 11th. They were not the cause, they only accellerated what is going on today. The economic downturn was already a fact.
So I think it is best for the airline industry to let Sabena and Swissair go bankrupt. Other carriers will replace them....don't worry. I feel really sorry for Sabena, so many good experiences with them on long haul flights and I will feel sorry for those that will loose their jobs because of the economic downturn.
In the case of Swissair, the majority of flights goes to Crossair....I really hope for Crossair that they do not take over some managers from Swissair.
Gerardo From Spain, joined May 2000, 3481 posts, RR: 29
Reply 5, posted (13 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1483 times:
The fact, that SR will not send te 200Mio to SN, was perhaps not influenced - or not only - by the current pilot strike. However, without that money, I hope the pilots know, that their position got even worse, as SN will have to be further resized to survive.
SN also said, they would find another financial solution. But who will invest in a company with such a high risk to loose this investment?
BTW, the worst SR-managers have already left SR: P. Bruggisser, G. Schorderet, E. Honegger, and more.
dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
Ceilidh From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (13 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1461 times:
Spitfire - you and Airbuspilot really ought to start looking at things logically rather than blindly believing the crap put out by BeCA. SN was losing US$1m per day when it was operating - and every time BeCA struck those losses doubled or even tripled thanks to the loss of passenger revenue and the cost of chartering in aircraft.
BeCA claims that the strikes were not aimed at passengers in any way. Strange that, as not operating the flights inconveniences passengers terribly and makes them no longer interested in flying SN! BeCA's members seem to have completely forgotten who it is that ultimately keeps the company in businesss and by extension, pays their salaries: the passengers and cargo shippers. Upset them, and you have no business.
Don't forget as well that in the whole of SN's 80 odd year history it made a profit just once - and that was under SR management.
Had Muller's survival plan been accepted, I have no doubts that SR would have honoured its obligations to SN. Indeed, it was accepted by everyone except BeCA - who as you are well aware are not even a recognised union at SN!
SR management therefore clearly saw that their investment of a further €200m would be completely wasted, and would achieve no benefit to them or to SN except prolonging SN's death pains.
Yes, SR's management messed up - they should have learnt from British Caledonian, British Airways, Air France, SAS and KLM that Sabena is - and always has been - the most corrupt and inefficient airline in Europe and is a dog that should have long ago been put down. Hopefully, this will now be the end of it and the old saying about Sabena: Such A Bad Experience, Never Again will apply for the last time.
DAT will, I think, continue and indeed has the potential to go from strength to strength. Muller correctly identified that the best market is regional - and as long as they retain their low cost base then they are a very viable operation. To all those pilots who ignored BeCA's bully boy Gestapo tactics and continued to try to honour their company's commitments to their passengers: I wish you success in your future careers. You have shown honour and courage. To those BeCA supporters that have destroyed Sabena and more inportantly the lives of thousands of your colleagues and employees of those dependent on Sabena, I say: may you live in interesting times.
Sabenapilot From Belgium, joined Feb 2000, 2738 posts, RR: 45
Reply 9, posted (13 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1445 times:
Am I correct in assuming you are finally saying goodbye then? It sure sounds like it!
Anyway, before YOU go, let me first correct something.
On this and way too many other posts you have posted " Don't forget that in the whole of SN's 80 year history it made a profit just once - and that was under SR management."
I don't know what kind of tabloid told you that, but it is not correct! The year you are referring to was not profitble at all! It has later been shown by the 'Financieel Ekonomische Tijd' (the equivalent of The Financial Times in Belgium that is) that it was nothing more then an accountant's trick from Reutlinger to give his Horizon 2000 plan a good start. Sabena sold some of its B737s to cash in some money and then leased them back again in what is called a sale-and-lease-back operation.
Having you still claiming that was SN's best year only proves how weak your managereal knowledge really is.
Anyway, since we are talking about it, Sabena was profitable right till 1959. 1960 (independance of Congo) was the first year there was a negative result (which until now has always accumulated). However, in your very own demagogic way I can say that Sabena has been profitable for about half of the years it has been around. I wonder if companies like BA, LH etc. can say that....
I've told you before and I'll tell you again, since you apparently have some problems getting things right on the first time: don't loose your time on this forum, go and buy yourself a syllabus on macro-economics. Who knows: it could be usefull one day in keeping your apparances up...