Lubicon From Canada, joined Oct 2000, 197 posts, RR: 0 Posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1615 times:
Apologies if this is a duplicate post. Westjet has added Sault St Marie and Thompson service from Winterpeg.
CALGARY, Alberta (BUSINESS WIRE) - WestJet Airlines (TSE:WJA.) today announced that it is adding service to the new market of Thompson, Manitoba starting December 14, 2001, with non-stop flights between Thompson and Winnipeg four days per week. One-way fares between Thompson and Winnipeg will start at $109.
WestJet will also add service to the new market of Sault Ste. Marie starting December 18, 2001. WestJet will operate non-stop service between Sault Ste. Marie and Winnipeg three days per week. One-way fares between Sault Ste. Marie and Winnipeg will start at $109.
Bill Lamberton, WestJet's Vice President, Marketing and Sales, said today "We are very pleased to further enhance WestJet service in Manitoba and Ontario, to bring truly affordable air travel to both Thompson and Sault Ste. Marie. With WestJet's friendly, no hassle service to Winnipeg we to hope stimulate the air travel market in both these regions."
As part of the schedule enhancements announced today, WestJet will also increase frequency on its key routes between Ottawa and Hamilton and Winnipeg and Hamilton. As well, WestJet has already announced that it will add service between Hamilton and Sudbury on December 12, 2001, and increase to two flights each weekday on this route on December 13, 2001. One-way fares between Hamilton and Sudbury will start at $79.
WestJet Airlines serves the 17 Canadian cities of Victoria, Comox, Vancouver, Abbotsford/Fraser Valley, Prince George, Kelowna, Calgary, Edmonton, Grande Prairie, Fort McMurray, Saskatoon, Regina, Winnipeg, Thunder Bay, Hamilton, Ottawa and Moncton. WestJet operates a fleet of 25 Boeing 737 aircraft, featuring three state-of-the-art new generation 737-700 aircraft. WestJet is publicly traded on the Toronto Stock Exchange under the symbol WJA.
Mcdougald From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 1, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1440 times:
I can see the point of a Winnipeg-Thompson service as a useful service for civil servants going back and forth between their departments' head offices in YWG and northern regional offices in YTH.
But Winnipeg-Sault Ste. Marie?! The point-to-point traffic will be next to nothing, and I can't see the thru-traffic from the rest of western Canada being all that great. Wouldn't it make more sense to start with a YAM-YHM route, where at least there would be a decent mix of point-to-point and connecting traffic?
Samurai 777 From Canada, joined Jan 2000, 2457 posts, RR: 5 Reply 2, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1419 times:
Winnipeg-Thompson is what I've seeing all along, but Winnipeg-Sault Ste Marie!?
Not only does it make sense for the YTH-YWG route in terms of civil servants, but also for other people who don't have the time to drive to Winnipeg which is over 700 km south - similar to the distance between Calgary and Fort McMurray. Thompson has about 15,000 people, so that's a bit of a small market. But the demand might be there, as until a few years ago, CP used to fly 732's up there. AC still flies F28s there.
I don't exactly see how YAM can hold onto its Winnipeg route for long. I thought WJ'd go for a YAM-YHM route instead! Either it's just a Limited Edition style route or something strange's going on at WJ. By the way, I thought Sault Ste. Marie's economy is in serious trouble as its mine may close.
YWG777 From Canada, joined Oct 1999, 1264 posts, RR: 1 Reply 3, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1402 times:
This is good news for Winnipeg. We have a expansion on the main ramp going on.Loos like were gonna need the extra room for all these flights. Plus it looks like Westjet added 2 extra YWG-YHM flights which makes the total to 5 during the week. I was a bit shocked about Sault Ste Marie I must say. I knew Thompson would eventually come in a few years but wasn't expecting it this early. West jet does a good job of connecting pax through Winnipeg to other destinations. Next thing you know they may need a biigger ticket counter space.
Fly_yhm From Canada, joined Dec 2000, 1661 posts, RR: 10 Reply 4, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1388 times:
Along with all of you I am also very suprised at them going from YAM-YWG and not YAM-YHM oh well it could just be a trial period. Also when they say this WestJet will also increase frequency on its key routes between Ottawa and Hamilton and Winnipeg and Hamilton. Are they refering to what they already announce? or is this evem more flights or is it just being switched from service with the -200s to service with -700s
One final thing Im proud of Westjet considering just about every airline is cutting back flights and staff well they continue to push forward. You think they will still have a profit for the month of september?
way to go Westjet you guys will always be number1.
Where will you spend eternity? He,s more real then you think!!!!!
AC183 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 1532 posts, RR: 2 Reply 7, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1355 times:
As it hasn't come near it's growth potential yet, WJ has no reason to cut back. If it was bigger, it would feel the drop in traffic more, but right now it's got the ability to grow.
As far as Thompson goes, fairly safe route. Pretty much a classic WJ service that will stimulate increased travel in a remote area (around 10 hrs by bus, somewhat more by train). I expect most business travel would still go by AC/CalmAir, although maybe we should note that YTH-YWG-YHM-YSB is same plane service (possibly of use to Inco). Apart from that, first nations people coming to YWG for services, and other people coming south for leisure (ie- higher income such as Manitoba Hydro employees) would probably use it.
YWG-YAM kind of confuses me a bit too. It'll be interesting to see if there's the demand for it. But why they would fly out of YAM at this point rather than YSB (with handling in place) is a bit of a mystery to me. I'd love if it were to work, but somehow my gut feeling is that they'll switch the aircraft to full daily YTH service within a year or so. It just doesn't seem likely YAM-YWG would survive in the long term. I have a hard time seeing SSM having enough connecting through-traffic to YYC, or enough O&D into YWG. Bottom line is that Algoma Steel is the biggest employer in SSM, and it's not doing so well these days (plus most of the western manufacturers source steel from Ipsco in Regina, so not much business traffic for Algoma). Apart from that SSM has the Algoma Central Railway, but although Winnipeg is a very large national railway centre, Algoma Central is a north-south regional and wouldn't have much business to do with mainline transcontinental rail operations. I just don't see the current economy in SSM as supporting this, unless WJ can draw enough westbound traffic through the border out of Michigan.
Personally I would have preferred using the YHM-YWG turnaround for a YQR run with a decent connecting time this time around, but using the aircraft for YTH/YAM should be OK.
Fallingeese From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 2097 posts, RR: 19 Reply 8, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1350 times:
The Thompson route will work as been proven by previous airlines. It's also good timing as they can probably pull away alot of Air Canada's and Calm Air's passengers. Sault Ste. Marie is a mystery to me, no indications anywhere about this move. There are many other city's that Westjet could affectively make a profit on ahead on Sault Ste. Marie.
Samurai 777 From Canada, joined Jan 2000, 2457 posts, RR: 5 Reply 12, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1332 times:
YKA - PLEASE have some patience! Don't you worry too much. Kamloops'll eventually get WJ service. I'd say chances of that happening are actually quite good within the next 3-4 years, as the newer 73Gs keep on coming.
YWG777 From Canada, joined Oct 1999, 1264 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1324 times:
For 1 thing I have been having lenghty discussions about Westjet flying to YAM. In the hsitory books off YWG I don't recall any airline doing a YWG-YAM flight before. To my knowlege this is a first which makes me wonder why not use YHM instead of YWG? Is Westjet trying to make YWG all of a sudden a central hub with all these connections taking place. Westjet does do very well in YWG. I have acess to loads and they are quite good sometimes even over booked. I think next week Westjet adds their early morning arrival from YQT. At 7:15am YWG is already a mad house just with flights leaving the main ramp not arriving. I don't even think there is a gate avialible at 7:15am cause the majority of them are taken. This will be intresting to watch.
do you think WJ will make YAM and YTH a daily route instead of 3 and 4 times a week?
Also on another note anyone know if Westjet will be back in Brandon?
Mark_D. From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 1447 posts, RR: 5 Reply 16, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1309 times:
YKA--One of the major cities in western canada still dosn't recieve their service and their expanding in eastern canada....
Well..y'gotta admit once to get down to Kamloops' population, there are a lot of cities --or towns, really-- in both Western and Eastern Canada (hey like Sault Ste. Marie, for instance..)
Good thing im getting out this stinkin' country soon, I don't think I could take anymore of this b/s thats virtualy everywhere.
Look if having a certain kind of plane serve your local airport is your criterion to judge the quality of residency in the whole country --and a country that big, too-- then sounds to me like you need to address those priorities, pronto! (maybe live deep within the noise footprint of Heathrow instead, for instance)
Mcdougald From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 17, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1296 times:
Nordair, and Transair before it, did indeed operate a Northern Ontario service that stopped in the Sault and other communities between Toronto and Winnipeg. However, I suspect the old Sault Ste. Marie flights were intended to tap into YAM-YYZ traffic more than anything else.
Air routes tend to follow at least some sort of logic (and the money, of course). Where do leisure or business travelers from YAM need to get to most often? Where do the people who need to go to YAM regularly usually come from?
In both cases, southern Ontario.
Which is what is so puzzling about YWG-YAM nonstop service. Winnipeg and Sault Ste. Marie are so disconnected from each other that I wouldn't bet on a nonstop 19-seat Metroliner or 32-seat 328Jet service being profitable, let alone 737 service.
What next? Regina-North Bay? Moncton-Timmins?
On another note, I agree with Mark D.'s post above. If the lack of jet service to Kamloops makes Canada a "stinkin' country", we must really be spoiled rotten. Take a third-world immigrant into any major Canadian supermarket sometime and ask him how it compared to what they had back home, and if he thinks Canada stinks. More likely than not, you'll hear the truth that we live in the land of plenty.
YWG777 From Canada, joined Oct 1999, 1264 posts, RR: 1 Reply 18, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 1274 times:
My question is where does Business come in between YWG-YAM? YAM I don't even think have flights out to the west maybe bearskin does a milkrun route in there through YQT. But I hope this route works I dodn't think there was any demand for YWG-YAM. I guess it could work but its a risky route in which money could be lost in. I am thinking postive about this route to work. YWG needs the connections and right now it looks like Westjet is on the verge of making YWG their next hub.
Yow From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 19, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1271 times:
I think that YWG-YAM will work. People is YAM will no longer have to go through YQT or go east to YYZ before going to Western Canada. As long as the YAM flights have connections to YYC, where connections can be made everywhere else in the west. The route should work. I suspect that you wil eventually see a YHM-YAM-YWG-YYC routing.
Look at how many routes WJ has started, that nobody thought would work and are a success. Like YYJ-YXS or Comox-YYC.
AC183 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 1532 posts, RR: 2 Reply 20, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1263 times:
YAM-YWG is definitely one of the weirder routes WJ has started recently, although at 3/week it's not really a huge amount of capacity.
-this route probably won't have terribly much support from westerners, as inbound YAM passengers aren't particularly likely to be from the west. WJ will probably get most of the existing leisure traffic from the west, though. (I'm actually thinking that for $109 this could be appealing for next summer, just because I've never been to Soo). Also, a little marketing in the major western cities might generate some traffic, as well as potentially being able to tap some demand for flights into parts of Michigan
-if I lived in SSM, and was considering options for leisure travel, basically it would mean a choice between surface transport, connecting at YYZ, or flying WJ. I was thinking that for any sort of leisure travel, it would be pretty appealing to go to Grand Beach (1 hour from YWG) or Banff (1 hour from Calgary). I suppose advertising and promotion would be needed to get people going west, but there's some potential demand.
-heading south for winter vacations is popular among many Canadians, but for people from Soo it would probably involve connecting at YYZ. I'm guessing it'll probably be just as cheap (and probably easier) to connect southward to sunspot flights to PHX, LAS, Mexico, etc from YWG using WJ to connect to the charters as it would be using AirOntario into YYZ. This would depend on travel agents, but it potentially serve a fair number of passengers.
Anyways, strange route, these are my ideas as to where WJ might see passengers coming from. Whether YWG-YAM will survive long term is a question, but then again, as yow has implied, why not use it like other WJ milkruns and fly YWG-YAM-YOW or YWG-YAM-YHM or something the same way they fly routes like YYC-YLW-YYJ.
Mcdougald From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 21, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1257 times:
Westjet is going to have to generate a lot of new business to make YWG-YAM work. I looked up the YWG numbers in StatsCan's 1997 Air Passenger Origin and Destination report (unfortunately, the latest one available), and traffic was very light for this city pair.
Outbound (YWG-YAM): 920 (2.5 per day, average)
Inbound (YAM-YWG): 900 (2.5 per day, average)
Outbound (YWG-YAM): 760 (2.1 per day, average)
Inbound (YAM-YWG): 820 (2.2 per day, average)
It would be tough for a 737 to break even, at three times a week, on a city-pair generating less than 20,000 inbound and outbound passengers per year. Going by the latest stats I can get, only a few cities generate that sort of O & D traffic from YWG, namely: Calgary, Edmonton, Halifax, Montreal, Ottawa, Regina, Saskatoon, Thompson, Thunder Bay, Toronto, Vancouver, Victoria, Chicago, Los Angeles, Minneapolis/St. Paul and New York City.
(If anyone has access to more recent stats -- that is, if StatsCan still publishes them -- it would be interesting to see them. I admit the ones above are a bit dated, but I doubt YWG-YAM traffic has changed much anyway.)
YWG777 From Canada, joined Oct 1999, 1264 posts, RR: 1 Reply 22, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1234 times:
Well we will see how this works. I think westjet this could be the start of a major bank of flights for Winnipeg. YWG needs more flights especially to the US as we lost Denver this year ands hope we can get something perminant. Maybe Los Angeles.
Mark_D. From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 1447 posts, RR: 5 Reply 23, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 1221 times:
YWG777--Well we will see how this works
Yes how can you not applaud WestJet for coming out with a sort of wild route like this, and announced after Sept. 11, to boot.
Can't help but think they're just setting up shop --which how expensive can it be anyway, this is probably the biggest thing in scheduled transport the Soo airport's seen in twenty years,if not longer, maybe since it was built, so I'm sure the Mayor and Chamber of commerce guys are being real accommodating-- and maybe if loads Westwards prove sturdy over the winter months, they might give a go ahead for a YWG-TQT-YAM-YHM milk run (those're all fairly equidistant intermediate segments, along that journey).
Hope it works!
And it`d be great for the Soo if it got established as some kind of little hub for folks from Marathon to Espanola and Manitoulin, really big swath of territory. With maybe a marketing focus on the guys wanting to get out Eastwards or (with less certainty) Westward in the country during wintertime rather than relying solely on the train or the trans-Canada, while instead bringing people in for fishing and expedition tourism, in summer. Either way it`s a pretty imaginative and adventurous route decision, just for starters.
Mcdougald From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 24, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 1205 times:
I don't know if we're going to see much expansion out of YWG. Whatever expansion we do see will probably be incremental, such as beefed-up service on existing routes or restoration of routes like Westjet's Winnipeg-Regina service, which looked promising but was poorly scheduled. (If memory recalls correctly, it operated just once per day, with the inbound flight from YQR usually arriving at about 8:30 in the morning, and the outbound flight to YQR leaving at something like 10 p.m.)
Where will we see expansion? Here are some good prospects (some perhaps operating only 3 or 4 times a week), based on their current network:
Hamilton-Saint John, NB-Halifax
Hamilton-Sault Ste. Marie
Vancouver-Fort St. John
Vancouver or Calgary-Kamloops
Eventually we might also see (most likely after the creation of new bases):
Halifax-St. John's, Nfld.
Halifax-Sydney/Cape Breton Island
Clearly, there's a lot of point-to-point markets that Westjet can and probably will pick up on -- and that's going to mean good growth prospects (in terms of both network and profits) for them in the coming years.
I wonder what would happen if they purchased regional jets, such as CRJs or 328s? Certainly it would allow them to beef up frequencies on existing routes, but it would also allow for all kinds of possibilities on routes for which 737s might not be useful.
25 AC183: Interesting stats, McDougald, thanks. Were they online (I can't seem to find them...) The beauty of WJ is that they're willing to go where passengers
26 Mark_D.: AC183--YAM-YYC is priced about $175 Advanced booking, of course. But still, it's great (I don't think even Voyageur/Greyhound bus would be that low. O
27 Samurai 777: McDougald, there are a few more routes I could add to your list (which looks good, BTW) that WJ could add such as. Vancouver - Grande Prairie (I've se
28 Yyz717: Great route forecasting McDougal et al! Don't forget transborder opportunities. I see the following as immediate possibilities: Hamilton -- Chicago Mi
29 Mcdougald: Thanks to all those who provided feedback. Samurai 777 wrote: "If memory serves, WJ's even already cut Regina - Winnipeg due to poor loads, so I'll no
30 YWG777: I argree with you 100%. This route will boost Tourism in the region. I think that This will also be good for Winnipeg as well because this is the firs
31 Yow: Don't forget that there could also be several hundred YAM-YWG passengers each year flying on Bearskin via YQT. Bearskin's passenger totals are not cou
32 Yyz717: Actually, from the early '70's, Transair and later Nordair used to fly YYZ-YAM-YQT-YWG using 732's. So YAM has had direct flights to YWG before.
33 Yow: My point exactly. ND did it in the 80s, why can't WestJet in the 21st century?