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Royal Jordanian Plans LAX, MIA Relaunches  
User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32183 posts, RR: 72
Posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 9624 times:

Royal Jordanian has filed with Austrian air authorities to begin service between Amman and both Miami and Los Angeles via Vienna with a targeted start in mid-2014.

http://www.ch-aviation.ch/portal/new...nian-eyes-vienna-us-traffic-rights

This would be a return to both cities for Royal Jordanian, which flew to Miami and Los Angeles in the early 1990's. Miami was served via Vienna then, too.


a.
44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineThe777Man From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 6403 posts, RR: 55
Reply 1, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 9572 times:

Does RJ have traffic rights already from Austria or did they have them previously ? Why would Austria all of a sudden give traffic rights to RJ ?

Would be nice it happened but I don't it's very likely.

The777Man



Need a Boeing 777 Firing Order....Further to fly...T5, CI, MU, LX and LH 777s
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24325 posts, RR: 47
Reply 2, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 9500 times:

Considering the touch and go financial state of the carrier and its continued reduction of long-haul flying in favor of growing regional links, I don't see a such longhaul ventures coming to fruition.

Asking for an update to bilateral and actually using such rights are two things.

Btw - what Jordan is asking for specifically is 3x weekly beyond rights to MIA or LAX. That would be in addition to their already 7 weekly existing and unused JFK authority.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineByrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2312 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 9391 times:

It will be nice to have another OW carrier at LAX.


The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
User currently offlineuberflieger From United States of America, joined Jun 2013, 330 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 9377 times:
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love when airlines do unusual routings   

can they fill a widebody AMM-VIE? or would the plane be based in VIE and only do the VIE-USA legs?



passionate about The New American :)
User currently offlineflyyul From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4952 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 9325 times:

cancellating YUL/DTW?

User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32183 posts, RR: 72
Reply 6, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 9246 times:

Quoting The777Man (Reply 1):
Does RJ have traffic rights already from Austria or did they have them previously ?

They currently hold Austria-U.S. traffic rights, but now to LA/Miami.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):
Asking for an update to bilateral and actually using such rights are two things.

True, but both routes have been rumored for a while now since RJ's entry into OW. Precarious state or not, RJ still has to look at how to maximize it's networks. But I do agree that both these routes seem odd in routing them via Vienna instead of just non-stop.

On one hand neither LA nor Miami seem like the most logical next expansion point for RJ long-haul.

On the other hand, expanding to OW hubs like MIA and LAX could be a safer bet than adding other cities.



a.
User currently offlinethomasphoto60 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3860 posts, RR: 23
Reply 7, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 9076 times:

While before my time in Houston however I believe that RJ (ALIA back then) had a AMM/VIEJFK/IAH service back in the late 70s. While it would be nice to see a return, I suspect that IAH-Middle East is likely at tapped with EK, QR and TK at this point.

[Edited 2013-11-25 14:29:34]


"Show me the Braniffs"
User currently offlineirishayes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2088 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 8984 times:

Yeah, right. To compete against two big-leagues in the ME3 that will launch nonstop flights to both cities from AUH and DOH in the near future?

Good luck to them...



next flights: msp-phx-slc, msp-mdw, ord-sju, sju-dfw-ord, msp-dfw, dfw-phl, phl-msp, jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg
User currently onlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7322 posts, RR: 24
Reply 9, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 8932 times:

Hmm...well if this actually comes to fruition:

1) MIA-AMM will be full of TLV bound traffic. Perhaps that, plus OneWorld connections will be enough to carry it through this time. Those are the only reasons this might work.

2) LAX-AMM will be hard to make a penny off of. With TLV served plus EK and EY service, I cant see how it will work.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3236 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 8768 times:

Could the 787 fly AMM-MIA nonstop?

Quoting irishayes (Reply 8):
Yeah, right. To compete against two big-leagues in the ME3 that will launch nonstop flights to both cities from AUH and DOH in the near future?

Haven't yet heard anything about AUH-MIA, but it would be nice.


User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 7874 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 8663 times:

Quoting The777Man (Reply 1):
Does RJ have traffic rights already from Austria or did they have them previously ? Why would Austria all of a sudden give traffic rights to RJ ?

What threat does it pose to OS? None that I can see. OS does not serve either MIA or LAX. I only see positives: More business to VIE. More routes from VIE. And more options for passengers.


User currently onlineMiami From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 636 posts, RR: 40
Reply 12, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 8462 times:
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Quoting OB1504 (Reply 10):
Haven't yet heard anything about AUH-MIA, but it would be nice.

They planned MIA or announced it but later decided to canceled. But indeed it will be nice, but if EY announced MIA, I doubt EK will announce MIA

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 10):
Could the 787 fly AMM-MIA nonstop?

Yes.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 11):
OS does not serve either MIA or LAX. I only see positives: More business to VIE. More routes from VIE. And more options for passengers.

Agreed.



Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32183 posts, RR: 72
Reply 13, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 8323 times:

Quoting Miami (Reply 12):
They planned MIA or announced it but later decided to canceled.

Never announced. Ethiad Cargo already flies to MIA, though, as I'm sure you know.

Quoting Miami (Reply 12):
I doubt EK will announce MIA

It's absolutely in the works.



a.
User currently onlineMiami From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 636 posts, RR: 40
Reply 14, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7532 times:
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Any particular reason why RJ is planning LAX and MIA via AMM?


Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
User currently offlinethenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2253 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7281 times:

Quoting irishayes (Reply 8):
Yeah, right. To compete against two big-leagues in the ME3 that will launch nonstop flights to both cities from AUH and DOH in the near future?
Quoting OB1504 (Reply 10):
Haven't yet heard anything about AUH-MIA, but it would be nice.

he meant AUH-LAX with EY, and DOH-MIA with QR, both of which will launch next June.

As for RJ,

Both AMM-LAX and AMM-MIA are doable non stop with the A342. The A332 doesn't have the legs for LAX, but a non stop to MIA is doable.

The only reason why i see them operating via VIE is because they want to tap into the VIE-LAX and VIE-MIA markets, both of which are not served at the moment.

Not saying it will happen, but it might. After all, they do have 11 787s on order. They will need to send these birds somewhere besides HKG, JFK, YUL, DTW, ORD, BKK and KUL, considering that a lot of these routes (if not all) arent daily.

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2013-11-26 05:19:05]


us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 16945 posts, RR: 48
Reply 16, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 6824 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Thread starter):
This would be a return to both cities for Royal Jordanian, which flew to Miami and Los Angeles in the early 1990's. Miami was served via Vienna then, too.

The terrible ideas that airlines repeat despite decades of experience otherwise never cease to amaze me. I thought RJ used AMS for flights to the US back in the 90s?



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinethegivenone From Austria, joined Jan 2008, 189 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 6798 times:

Woaa, as a VIE resident, that would be an amazing connection to see at our airport.

User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26196 posts, RR: 76
Reply 18, posted (4 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5100 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 9):
2) LAX-AMM will be hard to make a penny off of. With TLV served plus EK and EY service, I cant see how it will work.

THR is at least as important as TLV. Also, EVN.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 7874 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (4 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5080 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 16):
The terrible ideas that airlines repeat despite decades of experience otherwise never cease to amaze me. I thought RJ used AMS for flights to the US back in the 90s?

If an airline drops a route because the cost outweighs the revenue side of the operation it would only make sense that they would return if they can lower the cost such as operating a much more efficient airplane. That's my theory at least  


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6838 posts, RR: 14
Reply 20, posted (4 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5006 times:

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 4):
can they fill a widebody AMM-VIE?

I guess with the OS code it might be something, but hard to see it working.

Quoting flyyul (Reply 5):
cancellating

Coining a new word?

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 6):
They currently hold Austria-U.S. traffic rights, but now to LA/Miami.

How do they have only Austria rights and not something like Munich or London?


User currently offlineYULWinterSkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2169 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (4 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4995 times:

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 10):
Could the 787 fly AMM-MIA nonstop?

Yes, and so can their A340-200.

Quoting irishayes (Reply 8):
Yeah, right. To compete against two big-leagues in the ME3 that will launch nonstop flights to both cities from AUH and DOH in the near future?

Good luck to them...

And what else you think they should do? Sit there, cry and do nothing...

Quoting flyyul (Reply 5):
cancellating YUL/DTW?

What makes you think so? Both cities have large and quite wealthy Middle-Eastern communities, who have strong ties with their countries.
Don't quote me on this, but I seem to recall that YUL has been successful from the very beginning.



When I doubt... go running!
User currently offlineThe777Man From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 6403 posts, RR: 55
Reply 22, posted (4 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4894 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 11):
What threat does it pose to OS? None that I can see. OS does not serve either MIA or LAX. I only see positives: More business to VIE. More routes from VIE. And more options for passengers.

A nonstop service by RJ will take away connecting traffic on OS and LH via MUC/FRA/ORD/IAD etc so why on earth would OS want to give traffic away to another airline and alliance ?

I'm not so sure how much clout OS/LH has with Austria but I still doubt that this would happen via VIE.

We will see.

The777Man



Need a Boeing 777 Firing Order....Further to fly...T5, CI, MU, LX and LH 777s
User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32183 posts, RR: 72
Reply 23, posted (4 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4863 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 16):
I thought RJ used AMS for flights to the US back in the 90s?

Miami was definitely via Vienna; Chicago was via Amsterdam and I think Detroit used to be via Shannon?

Quoting enilria (Reply 20):
Quoting mah4546 (Reply 6):They currently hold Austria-U.S. traffic rights, but now to LA/Miami.
How do they have only Austria rights and not something like Munich or London?

Not all countries negotiate traffic rights with the entire of EU/Switzerland/Norway.



a.
User currently onlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7322 posts, RR: 24
Reply 24, posted (4 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4833 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 13):
It's absolutely in the works.

I find it hard to believe MIA can support two Gulf carriers plus RJ. I dont think it can. Unless one of them is being proped up by a government or another subsidy. I think the market can stabilize with QR and RJ, but the market isnt larger nor high yielding enough for all three.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
25 mah4546 : I agree in theory, but in practice these carriers haven't kicked each other out of small markets yet, and MIA probably won't be any different. I also
26 LAXdude1023 : My first thought about RJ service to MIA was TLV. If anything, that is what will keep it going.
27 uberflieger : TLV-AMM-VIE-MIA? have a hard time seeing how this can compete with 1 stops by a number of airlines, or combos like LY TLV-CDG & AA CDG-MIA
28 irishayes : There's that option, or they can start 1-stop service to Amman with layovers in random, non-OneWorld European markets and lose buckets of money. Knoc
29 LAXdude1023 : Yep. Its pretty much useless unless they can fly AMM-MIA.
30 mah4546 : oneWorld member Niki is hubbed in Vienna, is Vienna's second largest carrier, and serves around 45 or so cities from VIE. Not that I think that flyin
31 irishayes : NIKI's market share at VIE is roughly 8.6%. Combined with airberlin, the share is 15.8%. OS is still over three times larger. Based on that data alon
32 mah4546 : And? So hub is based purely on market share? I thought it was based on whether or not an airline uses the facility as a primary means of transiting p
33 Viscount724 : They don't appear to sell 5th freedom traffic on that sector.[Edited 2013-11-26 14:09:13]
34 mah4546 : I think he mean cancelling the destinations all together. RJ does have 5th freedom on DTW-YUL, but, as you mentioned, does not sell seats on that sec
35 irishayes : I should have put it in perspective because yes, market share can be misleading. Frequencies. That's a bit more concrete. EasyJet offers more frequen
36 dennys : Quote : thenoflyzone : Both AMM-LAX and AMM-MIA are doable non stop with the A342. The A332 doesn't have the legs for LAX, but a non stop to MIA is do
37 Miami : I think most of us can agree that RJ will start MIA first UNLESS RJ has the right aircraft with the right legs to do LAX before MIA or maybe they can
38 Post contains images KLAXAirport : It would be awesome to get RJ from AMM and VIE at LAX. However, I see it more realistic to restart the service to MIA. RJ would have tough competition
39 Post contains links Miami : ExMiami.org is also reporting it. http://exmiami.org/index.php/royal-j...ning-nonstop-miami-vienna-flights/ They said it's likely to be approved..?
40 macc : contract was signed now according to derstandard.at really a rather weird thing. as AB is struggling to fill MIA and LAX out of DUS, i am sceptic that
41 flymia : They are? Never heard that, at least for MIA. Where did you hear/read this? Whether it works or not I agree but they can be a feeder both being membe
42 mah4546 : I can't speak for LAX, but you couldn't be more wrong about MIA, where in fiscal year 2013 airberlin averaged a 96% annual load factor.
43 Miami : I can't say anything for LAX. But AB is NOT struggling at MIA from DUS. They have daily flights with an excellent load factor. That's great news. I t
44 mah4546 : A daily flight split between MIA and LAX.
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