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Canada 3000 A310's, What Next?  
User currently offline767-332ER From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2030 posts, RR: 11
Posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1552 times:


What are C3000's plans with the A310's that they inherited from Royal?


Twinjets...if one fails, work the other one twice as hard!!!
25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16228 posts, RR: 57
Reply 1, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1436 times:

Haven't heard anything about the A310's. The fact that at least one A310 was painted in full C3 colours suggests they'll be around for a while.

C3 now has quite a motley fleet...A340, A330, A310, 752, A320, 732.....with the 1st A319 to come this month. Some fleet rationalization is needed. I see the 732 replaced by the 9 A319's on order.....and I see the A310 next to go....perhaps by a small mix of addl 752's and A330's.

Actually.....I think C3 would be a great customer for the 753......




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineTeej13 From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 486 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1410 times:

Flown on one with full livery, and one with only partial C3 livery. Interiors are unchanged from Royal - and they're even a little ratty...They could use some new seats - also, I found they were a tad stinky - like the ventilation system had something going on...

User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16228 posts, RR: 57
Reply 3, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1395 times:

In due course, I expect C3 to reconfigure the A310's to 8-abreast (as with their A330's) from the rather tight 9-abreast they inherited from Royal.

It will be hard for them to attract business travellers if their A310's are 'ratty'.....maybe they should focus on cabin reconfigs before exterior painting! Ahh.....I really don't like the C3 colour scheme anyway....too busy!




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineSpyderz From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 651 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1379 times:

I heard awhile ago that C3 wanted to go all Airbus, and get rid of their 757's. I'm not sure if this was before the Royal merger though. The only Airbus plane that rivals the 757 in capacity is the A321, but this won't be used due to its limited long-range capabilities. The only other plane would be an A310-300, so I wouldn't count out the one's C3 currently has.

User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1377 times:

The A310's need to be re-interiored, and the lav system needs replacing...hence the stinky airplane...They are not going anywhere any time soon, infact two of their leases were just re-newed...2 757's will be leaving the fleet next year. Actually there could be two more A310's arriving in a year or so..probably the planes that were going to Transat....But nothing is for sure...the idea was that with projected growth they would need 6 767-300's to replace the 4 A310's or just add two more 310s..boeing was offering a very good deal on the 6 airplanes, and C3 likes to buy brand new as opposed to used planes. But I think all plans are on hold for fleet changes....The A319's are not 737 replacements, and will come in three's to increase the fleet size and pick up the slack when the two 757's leave. The 310 is actually doing well for C3 (when it is not broken) It is ideal from some of the thinner European stuff like Manchester, Berlin, and starting this winter Tenerife, but with projected increases in traffic over the Years, C3 says they will need something like a 767-300 in about a year and a half.


"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineTeej13 From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 486 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1368 times:

That'd be cool to see a 767 in C3000 colours.
Given the nature of the market these days, it shouldn't be too hard to lease a 767!


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16228 posts, RR: 57
Reply 7, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1349 times:

Hey Slawko, are you a C3 employee? You have a lot of info about C3!




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineCaptaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 56
Reply 8, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1321 times:

There were rumours previously about getting the 767's, which unfortunately, for the time being, have not materialized. The A310 however is a very nice airplane, but like mentioned above, does need to be reconfigured inside as well as get new lavs. They can get quite stinky, that's for sure. Otherwise, they are very comfortable airplanes, with wide, comfortable cabins.



"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1322 times:

Nuno it was more then rumour...Angus was in talks with ILFC and BOeing, and they were putting together a good deal in mid summer around the time that the leases for two 310's came due...Now with everyone cutting back there will probably not be any news about new airplanes other then what has already been announced...although we could probably pick up quite a few Swissair airlanes if our business continues to increase as it has been in the last little while...


"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineGmonney From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2159 posts, RR: 20
Reply 10, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1293 times:

Does anyone think that C3 will pick up any of Air Canada's 732's when they take them out of the sky. They can get a few in good shape or fix them up. It would be cheaper than buying a lot of 319's and they may need parts for them as well?

I think another A330 or two would fill the spot of the 767, wouldn't it? As well it would be a bit more diverse.

Grant



Drive it like you stole it!
User currently offlineRed Panda From Hong Kong, joined Jun 2000, 1521 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1292 times:

I don't even know that C3's A310 has 9 seats across! That's holy squeezee.

i think C3 is the only airline with most types of Airbus.

I would prefer 320s to 737, and 757 to 310. Though, I have never tried on any of those.

btw, is their 757 more efficient than 310? that's what I think anyways.

r panda


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16228 posts, RR: 57
Reply 12, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 1278 times:

Yes, the 757 is far more efficient than the A310...think of it, you're only hauling one aisle thru the sky instead of 2. However, the A310-300 has more range and (when configured properly) a more comfortable cabin.

The A310's inherited from Royal have a 3-3-3 interior, while the C3 A330's have a spacious 2-4-2 interior. I expect the A310's will be reconfigured to match the A330's.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineCPDC10-30 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2000, 4773 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1281 times:

Excuse me, but have you actually flown on the A330-200 and its "spacious" interior? I certainly didn't find it very spacious in my experience.

The range advantage that the A310-300 holds over the 757 is moderate, but not signifigant enough in C3's operations. For example, not enough that the A310 could make it YYC-LGW with a full load.


User currently offlineFlug From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1260 times:

CP DC10 30 I think that the a 330 200 is pretty spacious the pitch on C3 is as good as on other sched airline.I know cause I fly on it alot.

User currently offlineTeej13 From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 486 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1233 times:

Yeah, I found the A310's problem was less to do with the sitch pitch as it was with the seat width! I've taken it to both Paris and Acapulco from Toronto. Easily some of the more uncomforable seats.
That being said, if they go to a 2-4-2 config, and redo the interiors, it'll be a beauty of a jet - it's already a very quiet interior.

Slawko, any idea of when the A310s are due for c or d-checks? Maybe they'll fix up the interiors then...


User currently offlineBlueShamu330s From UK - England, joined Sep 2001, 2787 posts, RR: 25
Reply 16, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1227 times:

Hmm, I didn't know MAN was one of C3's thinner routes....this summer has been an all 330 operation, with the inherited routes operated by the inherited 310s.

What config. do tragic Transat have on their 310s?

Only once flown on a 310, an Air France machine...spacious and comfy, but I can't even begin to imagine what it must be like in 3+3+3 config.
......................................................
Busses are bigger and better inside !!  Smokin cool
......................................................



So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1225 times:

Teej13 RYI is in C check right now, RYV was in C check in may when it was painted interior was unchanged, but the plane did get some TLC.


"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineCaptaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 56
Reply 18, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1224 times:

Manchester was extensively served by the A310 this summer. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe that the A310 visited Manchester more so than did the A330.

Air Transat's A330's are in 3-3-3 configuration, as is normal with charter or low cost airlines. There are many other airlines which use that tight configuration with the wide body airbuses. In fact, Air Transat uses that config with their A330's, with the exception of their sole A330-200, which has the 2-4-2 config.



"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
User currently offlineTeej13 From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 486 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1224 times:

I wonder where this fits in with wanting to shed the charter image in Canada, and how strong their push is to become Canada's second major carrier. If they want to be a major player, there's a certain level of passenger comfort that they'll need to have.

Of course, this is all relevant for when things pick up...


User currently offlineCap'n Dan From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1224 times:

Along the same lines as TS/C3's 3-3-3 A310 config is the TS 3-4-3 L-1011 config. I flew YYZ-LGW and it was horrible!

User currently offlineCaptaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 56
Reply 21, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1217 times:

I've brought up the sched argument and passenger comfort, and what I get in reply all the time is "well, we're a low cost airline, so you can't expect too much."

Unfortunately, I do not think that they will change the configuration on the A310 to the 2-4-2, and that goes with the 757s, which are even tighter!



"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
User currently offlineTeej13 From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 486 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1213 times:

The only reason I didn't mind my C3 757 experience was the real power on takeoff... and the fact that I was going to a sunny destination - I don't think it would've been the same for YYZ-YVR.....

User currently offlineRed Panda From Hong Kong, joined Jun 2000, 1521 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1207 times:

I don't think airlines can make major retrofit to their a/c's interors during C-check. C-check would only ground a plane for about a week. That's just not long enough to do major changes such as change from 3-3-3 to 2-4-2 cfgn.

Airlines would more likely do this during D-check if C3/TS really wanna do so. Well, I don't think they will though given the current business environment.

r panda


User currently offlineCrash 80 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1195 times:

Has anyone tried out that "Club C3" seating deal? The more spacious seating? How was it?

User currently offlineBlueShamu330s From UK - England, joined Sep 2001, 2787 posts, RR: 25
Reply 25, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1195 times:

CaptGomes

Perhaps that's correct out of YYZ to MAN, but overall, with all C3 flights to MAN from Canada, the majority have been operated with 330s.

Regards

Shamu
..................................................
Busses are bigger and better inside !!  Smokin cool
..................................................



So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
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