Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale  
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25794 posts, RR: 50
Posted (10 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 15177 times:

American Airlines Group (AAG) spokesperson along with Doug Parker says AAG is presently “not considering the sale of American Eagle Airlines.”

The spokesperson said change of heart was provoked by a change in the competition, razor thin margins, and the need to focus on completing the mainline merger.

However American Eagle future is far from clear as it struggles with issues over its operational and labor cost along with one of the worst ontime performance rates in the industry.
With the merger, not only does MQ face competition from external regional providers seeking AA business, but it must face two other inhouse regional operations which will give AAG enormous flexibility in awarding flying.


American Eagle to Remain Part of AAG, Longterm Challenges Remain
http://airchive.com/blog/2013/12/19/american-eagle-aag/

=


Besides the stated merger integration focus, I think one of the clear issues with MQ is, who would buy it with the existing cost structure? MQ with its reported higher cost is not going to be able to compete for fixed-fee flying very well and wont be an attractive asset for anyone to acquire as a result.


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
132 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinerealsim From Spain, joined Apr 2010, 659 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (10 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 14866 times:

Tomorrow the pilots will receive a new proposal from the company regarding their contract in order to secure the new E75 order.

On another note, it is rumored on different sites and by different sources that American Eagle Airlines new name will be "Envoy Airlines". We will have to wait to the official decision and annoucement, though...


User currently offlinerj777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1863 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (10 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 14603 times:

Quoting realsim (Reply 1):
On another note, it is rumored on different sites and by different sources that American Eagle Airlines new name will be "Envoy Airlines". We will have to wait to the official decision and annoucement, though...

ok......... so........... they've already painted several American Eagle planes in the new livery..... so now they're going to have to re-paint them again with the name Envoy on the side?


User currently offlinecrj900lr From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 357 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (10 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 14569 times:

No it will be American Eagle operated by Envoy Airlines just like it will be American Eagle operated by PSA, Mesa, Piedmont, SkyWest, Republic and whoever else we want to sign up for a cheap price.

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25794 posts, RR: 50
Reply 4, posted (10 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 14137 times:

Almost a year ago, AMR said it would rebrand MQ.

American Eagle will remain the generic brand name for the express operation, no longer the name of a specific airline to avoid confusion.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineJBo From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 2361 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (10 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 13903 times:

Quoting realsim (Reply 1):
On another note, it is rumored on different sites and by different sources that American Eagle Airlines new name will be "Envoy Airlines". We will have to wait to the official decision and annoucement, though...

They should just bring back "Simmons"  



I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
User currently offlinestillageek From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 73 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (10 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 13626 times:

The proposal




December 20, 2013

Message from the Chairman


Fellow Eagle Pilots:

Yesterday we received a formal proposal from Eagle Management regarding the placement of large RJs on our property in exchange for additional concessions to achieve the company’s structure objectives. The proposal is extensive and touches a number of sections in our collective bargaining agreement. We briefed the MEC immediately following the meeting and engaged in a very spirited debate on the merits of the proposed changes. The MEC debate on a response will continue up through our meeting on January 2nd when the MEC will determine how to respond to Eagle management. To allow you the opportunity to advise your LEC representatives, the following is a general summary of their offer:

Potential Upside

The company would agree to increase the "metering" commitment under the existing 824 agreement from 20 to 30 beginning in September 2014. They would still send 20 per month or 50% of the AA new hire classes until then (subject to metering and ALPA’s grievance)

They would increase the percentage of new hire obligations under the "protected pilot" agreement to 50% from the current 35% and send a minimum of 30 per month if AA hires 60 or more that month.

The amended terms of the protected pilot agreement would be extended to all pilots hired after October 11, 2011 and to any Eagle new hires.

Downside

The agreement would extend until 2024 with little opportunity to amend it.

We would have to transition to a compensation model that incorporates wage caps for Captains at 12 years and 4 years for First Officers very similar to what the pilots at PSA recently agreed to. The transition would occur over roughly a four-year period.

Per diem would be reduced by $.20 on the date of signing with some incremental increases.

The employee contribution for medical coverage would increase by 5% in about a year.

We would accrue vacation at a slightly different rate and would lose the fifth week altogether.

Allow the company to train crews on the EMB 175 months before we receive it and then return them to their previous equipment until the deliveries begin.

We would adopt a 401k plan and sick accrual system that mirrors the current PSA contract.

Our current profit sharing plan would be suspended.

The proposal only guarantees a fleet of 60 aircraft


We plan to post the details of PSA's provisions on the Eagle ALPA website as well as a contract comparison of other regional airlines that are more similar to our operation.

The company indicated to us that, without what they consider to be a cost competitive agreement, they will place the aircraft with a competing carrier and we would become "Comair II".

It's important to be patient while the MEC digests the offer and determines how best to respond to management. It is equally important that you engage your LEC representatives to provide the perspective they will need to make that determination. There are many moving pieces in a process like this, so the details are likely to change. While the MEC has committed to working in an expedient manner, if there is an agreement with the company, it will be subject to pilot ratification.

I'll keep you updated as we proceed toward a response.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25794 posts, RR: 50
Reply 7, posted (10 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 13459 times:

Good.

AAG puts its cards on the table and now its up to MQ to decide its own future. Makes total sense to establish contract parity among inhouse regionals.

AAG rightfully is also agnostic and knows it will get its deal at the end either way, whether inhouse with MQ or externally from the many players anxious to pick up the business.


p.s. - here is a news story on the proposal
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2...osal-warning-from-management.html/

=

[Edited 2013-12-20 13:32:21]


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinetyler81190 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 717 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (10 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 12943 times:

Though do not work for MQ, if I did, and after everything AA has put them through, I would say NO. From the little bit of info here, it looks like AA is just playing with them until they decide to shut them down or sell off after a few years.

FULL PAY TILL THE LAST DAY!!

In solidarity with my fellow Union brothers and sisters.

TJ


User currently offlinecrj900lr From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 357 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (10 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 12261 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7):
p.s. - here is a news story on the proposal
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2...html/

The article is not even written right. It was PSA who got the 900's not Piedmont. If they can't even get that right how is anyone who reads this supposed to believe anything else is correct in this article. If it does not come from an inside source I wouldn't believe it.


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21701 posts, RR: 55
Reply 10, posted (10 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 12049 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7):
AAG puts its cards on the table and now its up to MQ to decide its own future.

If the MQ pilots are smart, they'll walk away. Because ultimately they have no say in their future, whether they accept the deal or not. That's what not owning your own aircraft does to you.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7):
AAG rightfully is also agnostic and knows it will get its deal at the end either way, whether inhouse with MQ or externally from the many players anxious to pick up the business.

They'll get the rates they want. They may not get the pilots. Regionals are having trouble filling their classes, and it seems only a matter of time before that starts showing up in the form of crew cancellations. AA should be careful what they wish for.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinetyler81190 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 717 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (10 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 11986 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 10):
They'll get the rates they want. They may not get the pilots. Regionals are having trouble filling their classes, and it seems only a matter of time before that starts showing up in the form of crew cancellations. AA should be careful what they wish for.

I think we are still a few years, maybe 2 or 3 from seeing a large shortage. There are a lot of regional pilots out there that will fill the void for now. But in the future, as the Mainline carriers start to retire pilots, they will hire from the regionals. With the current wage situation in the regionals, not many people want the high cost of training to work in a very low wage industry. Yes, even though in the long run it isn't that bad, in the years after training it is basically welfare wages. (Think fast food)

As this gets worse, with concessionary contracts, and pay cuts, fewer people will be interested in the prospects of flying commercially.

After that happens, the regionals will be hurting for anyone to fly their planes, and will have to raise wages, or offer the training for next to nothing.


User currently offlineKD5MDK From United States of America, joined Mar 2013, 363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (10 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 11850 times:

MQ will probably be able to lure pilots from smaller carriers for a while, but in the long run wages will have to be sustainable.

User currently offlinewoodreau From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1049 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (10 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 11641 times:

Quoting KD5MDK (Reply 12):
MQ will probably be able to lure pilots from smaller carriers for a while, but in the long run wages will have to be sustainable.

Well for MQ's stated goal of hiring 600 pilots in 2013, they were able to hire 142 total. About 450+ pilots short of their recruitment goal for 2013.. What smaller carriers are you talking about?



Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
User currently offlineKD5MDK From United States of America, joined Mar 2013, 363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (10 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 11363 times:

I was thinking of Cape Air and Great Lakes.

User currently offlinenorcal From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2459 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (10 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 11217 times:

Quoting KD5MDK (Reply 14):
I was thinking of Cape Air and Great Lakes

Great Lakes and Cape Air have less than 500 pilots between them. That won't solve the problem.

There are approximately 21,000 regional pilots now flying and 22,000 mainline retirements in the next 10 years. Regionals will not keep up with that level of attrition even as they shrink. They can't fill their classes now and mainline carriers haven't really started hiring in the numbers they need to. Part 117 rest rules will also be very difficult for regionals to comply with.

The wages have been driven so low for so long that people have stopped entering the profession. Driving wages lower will not help the situation. AAG might win the battle against Eagle, but they will lose the war unless they start compensating regional pilots enough to get people back into the industry.


User currently offlineBostonMike From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 47 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (10 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 11152 times:

"I was thinking of Cape Air and Great Lakes."

The major airlines are really putting the squeeze on the regionals and the race to the bottom is intensifying for their employees. Dangling the "flow-through" lure as bait, pay and quality of life reductions are seen as temporary pains. But flow-through numbers have varied dramatically in the past. AE is a prime example. Cape Air has a type of flow through program with JetBlue, but the numbers are miniscule.

The University of North Dakota, one of the few college-level pilot training institutions left, is now offering a degree program in flying drones. Maybe that's the future.....


User currently offlineDiamondFlyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1573 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (10 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 11107 times:

Quoting KD5MDK (Reply 14):
I was thinking of Cape Air and Great Lakes.

1) There's very few people left at Lakes. Why would they leave one sinking ship for another? 2) Cape Air pilots are compensated very well and have very good schedules. Many of them have no desire to jump to the 121 side of things.

-DiamondFlyer


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21701 posts, RR: 55
Reply 18, posted (10 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 11059 times:

Quoting BostonMike (Reply 16):
The University of North Dakota, one of the few college-level pilot training institutions left, is now offering a degree program in flying drones. Maybe that's the future.....

In about fifty or sixty years, perhaps. The airlines will be needing lots of pilots in less than five years.

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 17):
2) Cape Air pilots are compensated very well and have very good schedules. Many of them have no desire to jump to the 121 side of things.

Or if they do, they're going to go right to the majors. A regional is probably a step backward for them.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineKD5MDK From United States of America, joined Mar 2013, 363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (10 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 10801 times:

Quoting norcal (Reply 15):
There are approximately 21,000 regional pilots now flying and 22,000 mainline retirements in the next 10 years.

Is there a graph of this over the years? It sounds like a fun business problem to observe from the outside.

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 17):
1) There's very few people left at Lakes. Why would they leave one sinking ship for another? 2) Cape Air pilots are compensated very well and have very good schedules. Many of them have no desire to jump to the 121 side of things.

This goes to show how little I know about either airline. I just picked them as ones I knew operated small aircraft.


User currently offlinewoodreau From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1049 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (10 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 10670 times:

Same for Great Lakes pilots. Even though they aren't paid very well or fly bigger regional aircraft, most lakes pilots when they leave Great Lakes, they leave for a major carrier. Going to another regional for them is also a step backwards or a lateral move at best.


Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
User currently offlineShawn Patrick From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 2608 posts, RR: 16
Reply 21, posted (10 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 10469 times:

A lot of folks will lose their jobs when MQ gets shut down, it's just too bad. Anyone know how many employees work for them? This includes everybody - flight crew, ground support, office workers and managers. Just when the economy is beginning to recover.

It's too bad that the major airlines have commoditized the regional feed business to the point that unless a feed provider can guarantee the lowest cost contract relative to its peers, it will quickly recieve the ax from the mainline carrier. This scenario unfortunately ties the hands of the regional carriers' management teams - they must cut costs - and unfortunately they believe that the pilots' contracts are the only controllable, quantifiable area where cuts can be made.

This leaves regional airlines unable / unwilling to compensate pilots fairly and to retain experienced senior pilots, who really are the bottom line in the safe operation of the airline.

The major airlines are to blame. They are unwilling to accept even the smallest rise in the cost of regional feed as is necessary to maintain fair compensation of safe, competent pilots. This is absurd, considering how the majors have found a way to transform their business in order to compensate for the astronomical rise in fuel costs over the past decade, and even make record profits in spite of the high cost of fuel and weak economy. Clearly, the major airlines can afford a minor rise in the cost of regional feed, but their refusal to do so speaks volumes about how much they value having a safe, experienced, quality regional partner.

MQ will go the way of Comair, but it is only because of management's commoditization of the regional feed business. Obviously, they learned nothing from the Colgan accident. It is just a matter of time before it happens again.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25794 posts, RR: 50
Reply 22, posted (10 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 10358 times:

Quoting Shawn Patrick (Reply 21):
Anyone know how many employees work for them?

According to AA website - "More than 14,600"

Quoting Shawn Patrick (Reply 21):
The major airlines are to blame.

Hardly -

If you want to blame anyone for commoditization, blame the consumer. Its the consumer that has shown even a $1 price difference can effect their purchasing behavior.

The majors have pressure on them from each angle, and it would be irresponsible for them to overpay for regional lift.

At the end of the day, its for the regional's to go out there and earn the business from the majors, not for the majors to operate charities by subsidizing inefficient regional players.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineShawn Patrick From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 2608 posts, RR: 16
Reply 23, posted (10 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 10258 times:

LAXintl - you prove my point exactly.

Who is the consumer at the macro level in this situation? The major airlines. They refuse to pay $1 more for a service (regional airline feed) because of the commoditization they have created within the market.

I won't address the rest because it is baseless.

[Edited 2013-12-22 13:50:54]

User currently offlinemercure1 From French Polynesia, joined Jul 2008, 1619 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (10 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 10229 times:

The travelling public is keeping the pressure on AA to ensure its operates as lean as possible.

So the consumer keep the pressure on the airline, which creates the commoditization.

Its not AA's fault it must shop around for the best price. It does what consumers demand, which is lowest price wins.


Also this is not unique to airlines. Consumers drive commoditization in all types of industries. From grocery store to electronics to restaurants. Consumers demand best price value and either companies delivery or they die.


25 LAXintl : So you blame AA because Airbus or Boeing trip over each other to supply planes to AA and were willing to offer large discounts, maybe even below cost
26 freakyrat : I have several people working with me that are graduates of UND and Riddle that can't afford to go to work for a regional because they have enormous s
27 KD5MDK : MQ shutting down as an airline would probably not affect their ground handling, which can be completely separate.
28 Shawn Patrick : LAXintl, your perspective only takes into account one aspect of an incredibly complex decision - unit cost. You can't compare purchasing an airline ti
29 mercure1 : Competition between Airbus and Boeing benefits airlines and consumers at the end. Same with regional feed. There are lots of options out there and com
30 Shawn Patrick : Mercure1, everything you say makes sense in a textbook sort of way. But, In seeking "the best deal" in the market, I fully believe AA is signing contr
31 LAXintl : Yes it is a simple situation, like any other seller-buyer relationship. MQ has a product to sell and must make it attractive enough to close the deal.
32 stillageek : Things are going to get ugly at Eagle. Pilots are being forced to fly sick or pay for a hotel room...they can no longer travel as a passenger home to
33 DiamondFlyer : From a legality standpoint, they do have a point. Any kind of jumpseating, you are required crew member. You can't be sick and be a required crewmemb
34 Mir : If AA wants MQ to compete, perhaps they should let them actually compete, and go out and make bids for contracts from DL, UA, etc. The game is differ
35 Post contains images LAXintl : Why should company pay for a hotel in someones domicile (base)? That's where you are based and your home in the eyes of the company. At my previous a
36 Mir : 1) You're not a required crewmember on the jumpseat. The only required crewmembers are the captain and the first officer - they're the ones listed on
37 LAXintl : Its the employees perogative if they they live clear cross country. In previous life, I lived in CA, but worked out of NY and MIA for 4-years, that w
38 DiamondFlyer : Sorry, required crew was the wrong way to say it. You are an additional crewmember when jumpseating and as such all the same requirements apply. -Dia
39 Mir : They don't have to cover their cost unless they're compelling them to stay there. If they let them go home, they wouldn't have to cover their cost. -
40 mercure1 : If too sick for flight duty, why company should allow you leisure travel ? France there is actual law that says if too sick for flight duty, then then
41 Post contains images LAXintl : Yes this was discussed earlier this year and the president of Eagle said this was a likely goal, but before such can be an option MQ must get to a po
42 Mir : Commuting isn't leisure travel. -Mir
43 superjeff : Oh come now! This is ridiculous. The majors fly on miniscule margins, and passengers have learned to treat the airlines' product as a commodity. If t
44 mercure1 : Do AA Eagle pilot employees get paid to commute home? Is it part of their duty assignment? From what I see in the industry its a choice employees emb
45 Mir : And who decides what's a competitive offering? AA? Not exactly an unbiased opinion there. Why not let Eagle bid for some other airlines and see if th
46 DiamondFlyer : In many cases, its a choice forced upon them, by the lack of pay. You can't live in NYC on regional FO pay, no way. -DiamondFlyer
47 Mir : As I said, it's tacitly encouraged by the company since they base employees in expensive locations but pay them the same as inexpensive locations. Wh
48 mercure1 : The market place obviously. AA as a buyer in particular knows very well what the going market rates today are knows MQ can't play the game with its c
49 Post contains images LAXintl : And it ultimately comes to this Hopefully these bright folks walk in with their eyes open and with the understanding of what the conditions are. Its
50 Mir : In Eagle's case, it's not a free market. The only partner they can have is AA. The assumption is that Eagle does not have its house in order, but the
51 DDR : It is a fine line the airline has to walk in these instances. I know three people (1 pilot and 2 F/A) who were fired for calling in sick because they
52 DiamondFlyer : They aren't paying the market rates. They pay awful and are looking for more blood in that category. But hey, if that keeps John Q Public from paying
53 LAXintl : You are right - they dont pay market rates - they actually pay above market ! And I am not only speaking about pilots, but in broader terms as Eagle
54 Buddys747 : LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 23575 posts, RR: 50 Reply 53, posted Mon Dec 23 2013 10:47:32 your local time (19 minutes 58 s
55 mercure1 : No problem with making living, but one needs to understand their place in the world. In society the market place establishes a values for each job es
56 Raventech : Sorry, but Market Rate =/= Should be payed rate Market rate is the typical rate for someone working a job, and for the regionals that's not very much
57 Buddys747 : Open market is a loose term, I would call it the manipulated open market controlled by those that have power and wealth, not the common man. Otherwise
58 Mir : The average pay rates for Eagle FOs over 12 years is actually lower than either Skywest or Expressjet (all three of them cap FO pay at year 8 rates,
59 norcal : SkyWest has the best compensated pilots in the regional airline industry. Eagle's previous concessions brought them inline with RAH and set a precede
60 infiniti329 : Take care of your people and your people will take care of you... MQ should learn the meaning to this very quickly or else they will be probably not b
61 Shawn Patrick : Norcal gets it. The major airlines are posting near-to-record profits this past year. DL and UA increased their pilot compensation DRAMATICALLY this
62 oc2dc : Definitely not. . . And if they are based in DFW and live in MIA, during recurrent training they have to pay for their own hotel in DFW...
63 tyler81190 : Totally! Except in the cases where after 9/11 pilots took massive pay cuts... Also I bet they didn't count on losing their retirement. No airline tel
64 Wayfarer515 : Reading these threads about regional carriers in USA just make me think there is something terribly wrong with the airline industry in the USA and pro
65 BostonMike : If the data is correct that over 50% of domestic flying in the US is done by regional aircraft, the majors clearly are united in driving that cost dow
66 tyler81190 : THIS IS THE BEST WAY OF PUTTING IT!!!!!! I honestly believe AAG will close MQ in a matter of a few years, and I hope to God I am wrong. But the way t
67 Post contains links tyler81190 : FYI... from the Dallas news, seems AA has given an ultimatum to MQ: http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2...with-american-eagle-airlines.html/ Basicall
68 silentbob : It will be interesting to see who wins this game of "chicken"
69 norcal : AAG will win the battle, but they'll lose the war. There aren't enough pilots at regions to cover Eagle's flying. It is a much larger operation than C
70 Goldenshield : Uhh, no. Just because the first year or two's pay of being a first officer isn't "good" to some people doesn't mean that the vast majority of the pil
71 jfklganyc : As a former Eagle pilot to current Eagle pilots: When I jumpseat on your airline, I see an airline that has become young pilots starting out and older
72 Wayfarer515 : Sorry, but you are totally missing the point here. If you go out to Africa, anywhere in Latin America, or any of the hell holes in the Middle East an
73 Goldenshield : Am I? Did you at at time in that post see me talk about those countries? No, because they're irrelevant. Nice, but irrelevant.[Edited 2013-12-29 07:2
74 Wayfarer515 : They're irrelevant only if you are shortsighted enough( to say it nicely) or have a specific interest to ignore it, which now I am in no doubt you ac
75 Goldenshield : Excuse me, but this thread is about a U.S. carrier, NOT a Honduran, Nicagaruan, etc., carrier. If a U.S. pilot wants to deal with flying in those cou
76 Wayfarer515 : Unfortunately I am in no position to recruit American pilots, but if I did I'd do it without a doubt, who would not like cheap, underpaid, semi-prolet
77 Mir : Then why not reject the agreement and spend those five years (which I agree is a reasonable time frame to shut down the company, maybe they could do
78 Goldenshield : Yes, the pilots are accepting it, on the basis that they will eventually move on to the majors, but certain things slowed down that transition, and t
79 KD5MDK : If MQ shut down over 2 years, would there be enough additional pilots at the other carriers to absorb the capacity?
80 JA : Theoretically, yes. As in, there are physically enough people (including the displaced MQ pilots) to staff the planes. However, the pay scale currentl
81 BostonMike : I guess, in any form of capitalism, the market establishes the rate. In this case the "rate" has been established by Delta buying Pinnacle out of bank
82 DiamondFlyer : One of the biggest obstacles to regional pilots getting the money they deserve is ALPA. While they are represented by ALPA, ALPA really only cares ab
83 Mir : No. MQ is huge, and you don't replace that much capacity without more pilots. The assumption is that the MQ pilots will go to other regionals, but si
84 JA : The flip side of the current market rate is more bankruptcies. If a regional takes a deal that it cannot fund, it will go out of business. Many majors
85 Post contains links mercure1 : I have suggestion for US regional carriers. They should create venture like in Europe, where pilots pay airline to fly. In return for training and acc
86 DiamondFlyer : You're kidding right? No way in heck will that fly in the US. We already spend upward of 75,000USD to get commercially rated, then have to now ventur
87 Mir : Yeah, that's not happening. If I work for a company, I expect to get paid. Not the other way around. -Mir
88 LAXintl : Sounds like a variation of the 3-5 year training bonds some airlines employ. The company fronts the money and gets you trained, and you spend the next
89 BostonMike : Someone is going to find an empty seat when the music stops. I spent 32 years in the majors watching the ebb and flow of the career. Bases close and
90 RyanairGuru : Thats not what he is saying at all. What happens in many other countries is that the airline PAYS the cost of training (from zero hours to right seat
91 Wayfarer515 : This. Something I've always admired about the airline industry is that I've always considered it a truly universal one. That means that an 737 pilot
92 LAXintl : World does not work this way (thankfully). A doctor in Africa might be just as experienced as one in the US, but the salary levels are totally differ
93 silentbob : There are several regionals that have had guys essentially buy their seats in the past. Unfortunately, the new ATP requirement for first officers mak
94 DiamondFlyer : Because of the new legislation, thankfully, this is too big of a financial undertaking for any airline to consider. No way is an airline going to pay
95 Wayfarer515 : Hence why I mentioned the exception of the airline industry, AFAIK its the only industry that has more or less similar standards of living across the
96 Post contains images Mir : That doesn't happen with the US airlines, because it makes no sense. Training contracts are there to prevent you from taking the training that one co
97 tyler81190 : I AGREE, THEY HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE... the fact the salaries have been cut by 50%+ since 9/11 in ridiculous... same work, now no more pension, and hal
98 Goldenshield : Only at the majors. At the better paying regionals, salaries did not fall anywhere near as drastically, if they fell at all.
99 Post contains links LAXintl : Eagle council has authorized its negotiators to enter talks with AA management, and would respond with a counter proposal in the coming days. Union's
100 tyler81190 : I hope the pilots take a stand and vote NO...
101 norcal : There is not a reason in the world they should trust AAG. After all the Eagle pilots voted in concessions to save the company during bankruptcy under
102 kd5mdk : Are those 50 people leaving the company for other airlines besides the ~30/month flow through to AA or including that? If separate, the airline would
103 tyler81190 : Seems about right as to what I have heard as well... And yes it does look like unless they can attract a massive number of new pilots very soon, they
104 norcal : Right now it is 20 a month to AA and 20-30 a month to legacies, LCCs, corporate, overseas, or a bunch leaving the industry all together. Supposedly P
105 BostonMike : OK, I am a little confused. People on this forum are anecdotally observing a decline in the number of pilots available or flying for the regionals. T
106 Wayfarer515 : In my point of view the majors have used the scope clause as a tool for their own benefit, but one which in the end will bite them back in the hand. T
107 JA : The destruction has already begun. People are no longer waiting to be shoved out of the door. They are applying for jobs at other major airlines. Tha
108 silentbob : I have said from day 1 that I believe those CRJ-900s will be CRJ-200 replacements. Actually, I think pilots are not going to be very resistant to any
109 KD5MDK : Scope clause is of benefit to mainline pilots at the cost of regional ones. Since it was imposed by mainline pilots, they don't have an incentive to
110 BostonMike : There was a recent article in JAMA or NEJM about the potential for a "doctor's bubble". The cost of obtaining a medical degree continues to rise as p
111 LAXintl : Reports out that pilots union and company have an agreement in principle on a new 10-year contract that would see 60 70-seat RJs placed at MQ between
112 commavia : Interesting. Apparently the MEC essentially voted to accept the company's last offer as the agreement in principle, and simply finalize contract langu
113 jfklganyc : And now the pilot-wide vote. Stay tuned...
114 KD5MDK : So if this gets ratified, we get to see if MQ pilots can flow through faster than they can be hired.
115 Mir : It doesn't matter. If there's a net loss, AMR will just give flying elsewhere. Hopefully the Eagle pilots do the right thing - they're going into a v
116 justplanenutz : Seems like this only covers E-175s so, if it passes, what happens to the CR7s? Do they migrate over to PSA as CR2 replacements, leaving PSA as the in
117 oc2dc : I was reading the highlights of the agreement but didn't see 2 important things. 1)Will there be a B scale for new pilots? It appears that it will onl
118 Acey559 : No B scale, just pay caps at 12 years for captains and 4 for FOs. Pathetic. Pay rates will also stay the same so basically we'll be flying larger air
119 commavia : This agreement covers all flying by MQ - it's just that the E175s are new so they're called out specifically in multiple places. But all of the afore
120 Mir : They'd also have a steady supply of the same candidates without a flow-through. -Mir
121 BostonMike : It's interesting to see this "flow through" as a negotiated item. Does it have an intrinsic value? It really seems a bit speculative to me. You can fi
122 LAXintl : Letter from MQ president.. Dear American Eagle Team: I am very pleased to report an agreement in principle, subject to language being finalized, has b
123 mercure1 : The labor agreement allowing for transfer to American Airlines after working at regional subsidiary seems pretty innovative and beneficial. Any other
124 LAXintl : I think Expressjet had something with Continental back in the day when CO owned them, but I am not aware of any other direct flow through agreements s
125 mercure1 : Yes I would think such agreement of future position at AA would have value and reduce doubts in minds of pilots. No worry about looking for other posi
126 realsim : PSA will not need any aditional aircraft to replace their CR2, cause their 30 new CR9 (+40 options) will be enough for that. However, what I've read
127 LAXintl : Personally I think there is still lots of changes coming to American Eagle branded flying. AA is first getting its ducks in order with its inhouse par
128 Post contains images commavia : I think at some point the mainline carriers may reach a point of diminishing marginal returns where the benefit (in the form of lower-cost feed) of b
129 justplanenutz : I believe the Chautauqua contract on 15 E-140s expires this August--so those may be the first to go.
130 silentbob : It would make no sense at all to give the CR7s to Piedmont. Piedmont would be starting a new type from the ground up, while PSA wouldn't have to over
131 realsim : That's what I think, they will go either to PSA or Air Wisconsin, but it won't be decided or done before they are able to secure a new contract with
132 Post contains links LAXintl : I see management has committed to keeping Envoy fleet at a minimum of 170 if the TA is passed. A bit of a drop from today's 220 or so. Though we all k
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
MEA Not For Sale. posted Fri Jan 2 2009 15:20:47 by Alessandro
American And American Eagle Traffic Down For June posted Wed Jul 4 2007 02:07:14 by Ryanrap1
Thai Airways Not For Sale posted Wed Feb 21 2001 13:17:24 by Singapore_Air
Were Braniff's South American Routes For Sale? posted Sat Dec 14 2013 19:00:53 by doulasc
American Eagle Pilot Arrested In MSP For Alcohol Intoxication posted Fri Jan 4 2013 07:30:24 by wingnutmn
American Eagle Fined $900,000 For Tarmac Delays posted Mon Nov 14 2011 05:42:57 by jayeshrulz
New AS SAN-PVR Flts Still Not Open For Sale posted Tue Jun 1 2010 15:07:29 by SANFan
Is North American Airlines Still For Sale? posted Thu Apr 29 2004 17:58:47 by Ctflyer
North American Airlines For Sale? posted Sun Mar 7 2004 08:02:48 by ATA767
American Eagle- Why CRJ-700 & Not EMB 170? posted Wed Feb 25 2004 18:28:40 by LUV4JFK