Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Implications For The New Ansett  
User currently offlineOz777 From Australia, joined Jun 2000, 521 posts, RR: 5
Posted (14 years 8 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 1824 times:

This morning there have been several announcements by ANZ and it's relationship with AN (old). This has included withdrawal of the claim against AN, and a further cash injection in return for indemnity for further liability.

There would be some who would argue that this is an attempt to cover tracks, but no so as the relevant ASIC and NZSC investigations are still going ahead. It would be a very foolish Board to attempt such a cover up.

Of interest is the conditions attached. AN II is still to use ANZ as their preferred international carrier, and get this !!!! - ANZ will supply the intellectual property and the management expertise to get AN II competative again.

Yep , Gary Toomey is going as a check-in chick at Gove!!!

Yet again an interesting strategic move (very necessary on ANZ's part) but also I think offering a fillip to any of interested parties keen to pick up AN. I know of two interested parties who identified a lack of expertise and for whom the ANZ knowlege will prove invaluable. This move will add considerable value to AN II as agoing concern in its efforts to remain viable.

An it has very effectively kneecapped Virgin Blue as AN will be promoted as the ONLY Australian Airline.


28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
User currently offlineWirraway From Australia, joined Mar 2001, 1321 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (14 years 8 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 1765 times:


Regarding Virgin being kneecapped, you could very
well be right, me thinks Richard might have some
cash flow problems, as VB are flip flopping like a
fish out of water, letting in AN-II with a No-frills operation
against themselves, they have certainly blown the
perfect chance the past few weeks. The latest is
they are going to lease 1 737ng and 3 737 classics
in addition to the 3 737ngs from Boeing by Xmas.
by this time Ansett-II should have at least 20 A-320s
flying to VBs 16 737s.


User currently offlineMx5_boy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (14 years 8 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 1763 times:

A very interesting move by ANZ and the Administrators.

Both AN MK2 and ANZ would both benefit from feeds from each other. (As unsavoury as it seems) The question is will the unions buy this? The 2 Marks must have been speaking with the unions about this - as I have heard no noises from the ACTU as yet.

I have read that the Admin's have approached SQ to take an equity stake in the new AN MK 2. Nothing has been further said though.

This may see the return of Star Alliance one should imagine? Along with a hint of "prime sevices".

Can you imagine the "dinki di aussie" television campaign? Oh, even better - they can ditch the current AN livery and have Dick Smiths head on the tail..

(Why do none of the revelations from your post surprise me in the least?)

Cheers mate,


User currently offlineOz777 From Australia, joined Jun 2000, 521 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (14 years 8 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 1755 times:

If you recall a week or so ago I posted a comment on some rumours about Branson / the Virgin Group etc. Subsequent to that there was a report about VB looking to acquire some 757's of which there is a glut at the moment, particularly in Europe.

I am suprised that he has not been able to get additional aircraft down here quickly - America West, DL, CO UA all are looking to use their seven fives elsewhere, as are charter airlines in Europe. The only problem is engineering (it didn't stop Monarch during the pilots strike). Seems strange to me that he is persisting with 737's rather than taking ACMI leases for three months to capture market share.

There has to be some merit in the suspicion that Branson is not as liquid as it appears. Time will tell.

If SQ and ANZ exert some muscle (and partly rebrand the new AN with Star affiliation) it could be very interesting.

One last thing I am trying to get a handle on though is the ownership of AN, it subsidiaries etc. From my understanding ANZ still owns AN, which inturn owns Hazleton, Kendall etc. The only element that has been sold (liquidated) was Traveland.

All may not be as it seems.

But am I chuffed that SQ and BIL have had their share of ANZ written down.


User currently offlineWirraway From Australia, joined Mar 2001, 1321 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (14 years 8 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1747 times:


AN-II has snooker'd VB with the SYD-PER and
MEL-PER, and look like getting Darwin up pretty
quick as soon as the get the other 9 A-320s.

All this leads up to the biggest discount war of all
time, what VB have still going for them is lower
operating costs, eg: VB 94 personell against 110
per aircraft for AN-II, not to mention lower pay
for VB, QF is well placed to cause havoc as well.

The 1st thing VB should do is increase their SYD-MEL
up from its dismal 5 flights a day.


User currently offlineMx5_boy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (14 years 8 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1735 times:


Some of the subsidiary's have been listed in the newspapers for sale. Are any of them when they fly into YSSY using the AN terminal?

If you look at the subtle changes to the AN website - and the new company name "Ansett Australia Limited" there is shift from the AN Holdings Pty Ltd.

What this means legally is anyones guess as I am not that familiar with how the law applies to Administration. As far as I am aware though, ANZ has does not own AN anymore - once they put the company in Administrators hands the company then remains property of the creditors, of which ANZ will no longer be. I could be wrong.

If you look at the Q&A section of the 'new' website they have deliberately geared it to be able to make announcements on various issues (Star, GW, GR, new Routes) ASAP to the public.

I did take note that the Administrators do not have to answer to any creditors (reports) etc for another month or so. Hmmmm.

As for DJ, I don't know why they haven't got any aircraft yet. Conflicting reports are around about 73's and 75's coming over as we speak. Does anyone know the absolute truth or are DJ pissing in the wind to talk the market up whilst they find funding?

The conspiracy theories could be coming thick and fast about this. (gotta love conspiracy theories)

1. AN Mark II is a tremendous sucess, stealing market share back from QF & DJ.
2. AN Mark II wins in price war - heavy "Australian owened and operated" campaign wins over aussie hearts.
3. AN Mark II announces it has backing of a consortium. A subsidised return to Star immenant.
4. AN Mark II has 25% Market share. DJ back to 2%, suspending flights.
5. AN Mark II announces GR points are back.
6. DJ questions AN's predatory pricing.
7. AN Mark II annouces more routes, introduction of 763's to SYD-MEL (with premium econ service) for morning / evening peek.
8. DJ closes door, AN / QF help stranded pax.
9. AN announces new livery and logo's one being it's low cost carrier, the other being it premium trunk carrier.
10. Former sold AN subsids codeshare and share low cost carrier livery.
11. Express Terminals in YSSY and YMML torn down.
12. In the end a certain carrier got exactly what they wanted.

Yeah, I'm bored today!!

Cheers guys,


User currently offlineWirraway From Australia, joined Mar 2001, 1321 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (14 years 8 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1731 times:


You keep saying AN-II as Australian owned, as far
as I know the sale has yet to be decided, unless of
course you have bloody good inside information.


User currently offlineMx5_boy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (14 years 8 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1728 times:


The above post was pure speculation / conspiracy theory.

Who knows who will buy them. I have my suspicions though.



User currently offlineDasa From East Timor, joined Aug 2001, 760 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (14 years 8 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1723 times:

Mx5_boy, who are your suspicions about?

User currently offlineSkystar From Australia, joined Jan 2000, 1363 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (14 years 8 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1718 times:

Have a look at this:

"Mr Anderson said that if the Government was re-elected, it would look at aviation policy to ensure that competition was maintained.

He told a Chinese Chamber of Commerce meeting that China Eastern Airlines was the most recent party interested in buying Ansett.

He said several groups had expressed an interest and they were in talks with the administrator."


Something different, eh?



User currently offlineOz777 From Australia, joined Jun 2000, 521 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (14 years 8 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1714 times:

MX5 - just a note re "administration"

What it essentially does is give the creditors the power of shareholders and board ie they effectively control the assets of the company in return for a priority in distribution of proceeds.

So rather than ANZ owning, controlling and operating the company (and all its assets), the Administrator now (after forming a new company to effectively limit any further liability) has control. Also any rights of the owner are transfered to the administrator (such as Brand, name etc). If, after all the creditors have been paid off, then any additional proceeds will be returned to the owners ie ANZ.

So at this time ANZ still "owns" Ansett. The administrator is obliged under law to not incur any additional liabilities, but is permitted to trade the entity profitably with a view to reducing the liabilities by way of dividend (ie distribute any profit to those who are owed money).

If, as the administrators allude, there is excess assets over liabilities, then ANZ will either get back the balance, or elect to take over the remaining assets and use them as they see fit.

The only way the Ansett name vcan be sold as it is an asset, is if a purchaser decides to purchase the core operation of Ansett Australia (ie the east coast main city pairs).

This is why I have some suspicion about the "delivery" of the extra $160 million by ANZ to the administrator.

IT is either some form of protection, or it has very elastic strings attached.

From my perspective, prima facie if you advance consideration as an acknowlegement of liability, then the administrator would have rocks in their heads if they then limited that liability. It means essentially that the administrator would then be personally liable for any shortfall, if it were subsequently proved to be due, but could not be collected from ANZ.

More to this than meets the eye. Damm these conspiracy theories!!!!


User currently offlineWirraway From Australia, joined Mar 2001, 1321 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (14 years 8 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 1695 times:

Just on ABC "7.30 Report" SIA has been approached
to run AN-II, and is in the box seat to purchase it.


User currently offlineAir Taiwan From Australia, joined Dec 1999, 1519 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (14 years 8 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1683 times:

ANstaff is also prepared to make a bid for the airline. I think (hope) MU (China eastern) would never succeed in its attempt to run Ansett... just imagine what Ansett would become if it is run by the mainland Chinese board... eeeeek!!!!!


User currently offlineDalecary From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (14 years 8 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1674 times:

It seems fairly obvious to me that if AN survives,SQ will have a big part in their fate. They are now down to 1 board member and 5% ownership of NZ. Hardly inspiring stuff from an airline that likes to be in the Driver's seat at all times.
Reported today was that Lindsay Fox was O/s this week shoring up finance, speaking to Airbus in Toulouse and also meeting with SQ execs. The reported plan is for Fox and some other industry heavies to provide cash and for SQ to provide the management. Can't see you loving this one too much,Oz777!!!. Whatever happens, a new AN brand will only aim for around 20% of the market. I hope they concentrate on trunk routes and become a full service airline. I can't see them surviving in any form if they don't.
I think they had better hurry as the whispers are getting louder that QF could have upwards of 30 planes in the country by Feb 2002. With DJ procuring extra planes as well, it looks like they are aiming to saturate the market ASAP and put the real squeeze on AN.
As Terry McCrann pointed out today, there is a good business case for SQ to relaunch and manage the AN brand,but there maybe a better case for them to throw their weight behind DJ.
Time is of the essence. Much more frittering around and I fear the AN brand will disappear forever.


User currently offlineDalecary From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (14 years 8 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1673 times:

I think this article from Today's Age is pretty much on the ball.



Battle of the skies has just begun

Friday 5 October 2001

A week ago, Ansett's administrators were staring at a near-hopeless task. Faced with a rapidly shrinking assets base and a mounting pile of claims from creditors, their only option was to get some planes flying again to generate cash flow.

They scraped together a toy fleet, comprising just four planes and one on standby, to ply the skies between Melbourne and Sydney. Budget class, armed only with water bottles and big smiles, the tiny outfit looked embarrassingly naive.

Ansett Kick-Start still struggles to lure passengers, and it faces relentless - indeed, ruthless - pricing competition from the dominant Qantas.

Ansett's administrators, Mark Mentha and Mark Korda of accounting firm Andersen, may breathe a little easier this week. But in truth, the hard work starts now.

The Andersen team now has $150million to build a new airline - Virgin Blue started with much less - but is about to begin negotiations with a range of vested interests that will want to extract as much value as they can from the fragile little airline.

The administrators yesterday confirmed they are trying to get Singapore Airlines to commit to a management contract and an equity stake in the new business. But Singapore Airlines will also want some hard deals struck with the unions.

Having wasted $400million in Air New Zealand, Singapore Airlines will be anxious to retrieve big licks of value out of Ansett, and that will require big cuts to costs, particularly labor costs.

Singapore Airlines was always a logical participant in a rejuvenated Ansett. A natural rival of Qantas in international aviation markets, particularly on routes between Australia and Asia, Singapore Airlines needed Ansett to deliver passengers into its own airline network.

When Ansett collapsed, the collateral damage was perhaps not immediately apparent. Members of the Star Alliance frequent flyers program, who would normally travel with Singapore Airlines or other program partners, no longer had any reason to stick with these airlines.

The market was wide open to Qantas, which promptly and effortlessly vacuumed up domestic passengers and international passengers into its planes, so destroying any value the overseas airlines had invested in the Australasian sector.

So Singapore Airlines is carrying the hopes of Star Alliance airline partners. That makes its negotiating position a little firmer if, as is suspected, some of these airlines prove to be interested in buying a stake in Ansett Mark II.

Australia is a crucial growth market in an aviation industry beset by chaos and crisis. For Singapore Airlines, it is an alternative source of revenue when its own international routes are being cut back.

Several considerable risks remain, not the least being Qantas and the uncertainty of the domestic economy: corporate spending has contracted sharply since the terrorist attacks in the United States.

The Air New Zealand settlement proceeds have bought the Ansett administrators time, credible managers and a capital base. So yes, out of the ashes, against all odds, Ansett Mark II will fly again one day. But its ultimate success hinges on getting passengers aboard and safely buckled up.

User currently offlineMx5_boy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (14 years 8 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1672 times:


Interesting stuff indeed. Mark Mentha has hinted in the morning papers some return of premium services to AN II - including Global Rewards and actual 'in-flight' service.

All AN II needs now is some $$$ to ride out a price war between DJ & QF and a major marketing campaign. As soon as it kills or beats DJ to the ground - and it shouldn't take long - we may well see a lean mean real AN II snatching back it's corporate accounts.


(What's this junk about China Eastern? Cripes!)


User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13756 posts, RR: 18
Reply 16, posted (14 years 8 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1673 times:

What a saga!

Now what are they going to do with their Au$ 700 Million? And why were SIA Executives in France? Hmmmm.

ANyway, back to the subject. If what people say is true, then AN II is not only making a profit, it is also doing great in terms of PR.

Personally, I think AN is great. It would be a shame to waste those loyal staff and renowned in flight service.

As for the fleet. I did not really gather why fleet renewal was so important to AN. The planes were well maintained (except for that blip), and they fly. As long as those two factors are kept in place, they could save up money.

What SIA should do in addition, if they are going to be associated with ANII in some way, is to use their weight (and Cheong's hair), to push Airbus and Boeing to give ANII cheap new planes. That would be brilliant!

Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlineOz777 From Australia, joined Jun 2000, 521 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (14 years 8 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1671 times:

Yes the last thing airbus and Boeing are going to do is sell aircraft at a loss in the current climate.

With that sort of logic no wonder the global aviation industry is in such a mess.

My info this morning is that no less than 45 "major" airlines are looking at some form of bankruptcy protection (or director liability limitation) as a method of stemming losses which are increasing at the moment. Apart from a couple of destinations, almost all city pairs globally are showing even further decreasing travel.

One thing to emerge even in Sydney. Parking at the major terminals is down 40% - surely an indicator that all is not rosy.


User currently offlineMx5_boy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (14 years 8 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1656 times:

Unions go to bat for Ansett

From AAP

UNIONS are using their combined muscle to urge employers and local government to fly only Ansett and help keep the airline in the sky.

Unions across NSW are lobbying local councils, transport and building companies and the state and federal governments to back Ansett Mark II.

NSW Labor Council assistant secretary Mark Lennon said today it was only fair for governments to do their bit to help Ansett out.

Mr Lennon said the NSW government had thrown a funding lifeline to Ansett's regional airline Hazelton, but could do more to help Ansett's workforce.

"Any good Labor Government should get behind the Ansett campaign and support Ansett Mark II by making it the preferred airline for government-related travel," he said.

The call comes after the Victorian Government last week ordered all state MPs to fly Ansett for the next 12 weeks.

Victorian Premier Steve Bracks said the move would direct 4,000 government flights to the airline and would provide a guaranteed revenue stream for Ansett Mark II.

The NSW Transport Workers Union today also embarked on a campaign to encourage transport companies to use Ansett's freight facilities.

TWU state secretary Tony Sheldon and NSW Road Transport Association boss Martin Iffland met this morning to discuss a joint plan to get Ansett's freight business back in the air.

In a joint statement both organisations said they would call on transport companies across the country to commit to Ansett as the preferred provider for all travel and freight movement.

"Since the collapse of Ansett there have been increases in the cost of freight with only one major carrier and substanitally reduced capacity," Mr Iffland said.

"As a result transport and most Australia business across the country are facing increased costs.

"Costs that in the current climate cannot be afforded."

Meanwhile, the Construction Forestry Mining and Energy Union (CFMEU) met at a Sydney building site today demanding major building corporations fly Ansett.

The Municipal Employees Union (MEU) has also started a campaign within the NSW local government sector, urging the mayors of all local councils and shires to only fly Ansett Mark II.

The Flight Attendants Association and Ansett pilots are also expected to begin a campaign next week targeting corporate Australia.

From: News Com

User currently offlineMx5_boy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (14 years 8 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1653 times:

Every day I have been out to the airport recently (domestic) there has been hardly any traffic around both terminals, even QF has been looking a bit thin - no massive crowds to be seen.

Lots and lots of vacant taxi's in the city now!! I haven't seen a taxi que for a few weeks.

What I reckon will be the clincher is what type of war begins shortly and if there are terrorist retaliatory strikes. That will decide the future of many airlines. Let's hope there is no more of the type of stuff that happened in NYC - otherwise it will be very dark days for the airline industry.

On a brighter note - all of the people I know who flew AN before (business people) are hopeful of some return of AN fully - and will fly back with them without a doubt. Particularly if some of the GR points and system is revived. What is particularly surprising (amongst a bunch of brokers and financiers) is the fact many have booked tickets for personal travel with AN and are non-plussed about the no-service issue.

I would have thought my greedy friends would have immediately joined one-world!



User currently offlineWirraway From Australia, joined Mar 2001, 1321 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (14 years 8 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1645 times:

All The AN troops are not happy:

Sack administrator: Ansett staff

From AAP

A GROUP of Ansett workers have called for the failed airline's administrators to be sacked.

The group, made up of engineers, ground staff and flight crew, has hired a Queensland lawyer to launch a legal bid to place Ansett into liquidation.

Brisbane lawyer Chris Nyst, who is representing the employees, said the planned Federal Court action would also attempt to bring to an end Andersen's administration of Ansett.

Mr Nyst said his clients wanted Ansett liquidated so their employee's entitlements would be payable immediately.

He said Ansett workers faced losing their entitlements at the end of this year when their current enterprise bargaining agreement ran out.

"The redundancy entitlements of all Ansett workers under the 1999 Ansett Collective Bargaining Agreement will lapse on December 31 this year and would have to be renegotiated," Mr Nyst said.

He said the employees had been left in limbo in the wake of the Ansett collapse, neither sacked nor employed because of a stand-down clause inserted into their enterprise bargaining agreement two days after the airline was grounded.

"We just can't afford to fiddle while Rome burns," Mr Nyst said in a statement.

"The public is currently being sold a story that people have their jobs back and things are looking bright while nothing could be further from the truth."

Mr Nyst will hold a press conference in Brisbane at 2pm (AEST).

User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16525 posts, RR: 54
Reply 21, posted (14 years 8 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1638 times:

Unions should not be making public annoucements that govt travel should be on Ansett. This discriminates against non-union airline workers at Virgin Blue and indeed unionized workers at QF.

Hopefully no Aussie federal or state govt will announce that AN is a 'preferred airline' for govt travel. This is absolutely discriminatory. Govt has an obligation to the Aussie taxpayers to spend their tax revenues as efficiently as possible...if the cheapest airfares for govt travel are on VB.....that's who the govt workers should fly on.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
User currently offlineSkystar From Australia, joined Jan 2000, 1363 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (14 years 8 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1635 times:


The ACTU has put Ansett at the head of its agenda without a doubt.

The Victorian Government had a travel contract with Qantas. It is in their interests to keep Ansett flying, as Ansett is one of the largest employers in Victoria - yes, they have announced they will be flying Ansett wherever possible.

In many cases, Ansett is cheaper than Virgin Blue - certainly at this point in time. Secondly, by unions calling on people to fly Ansett, Ansett jobs are potentially saved, and it does not threaten jobs or the prosperity of workers at Qantas or Virgin Blue. No matter what happens - Qantas will have more passengers, as will Virgin. Do you seriously think the unions will cause 40% of passengers to walk away from Qantas overnight?


I've read the Ansett site release, which says that Golden Wing Club and Global Rewards may be back up in the air. I've also suggested to Ansett an Impulse style service - tea & coffee and biscuits, which they responded positively to - saying it "should not be too costly".



User currently offlineB727-200 From Australia, joined Nov 1999, 1051 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (14 years 8 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1631 times:

The Administrator is being very good at hiding the fact it has either asked or forced about 15,000 people to hold their breath until the calendar ticks over to 2002. It is going to be a very black Christmas for a lot of us.

I have heard talk today that the Administrators are looking at getting the B767-200's up in the air again too, once the successful startup of the A320's is complete. The total domestic fleet would consist of 11 A320's and either 5 or 7 B767-200's. On a sadder note, I hear that ANA, ANB are heading back to SIN and BZF is going back to the leasing company.

Very interesting times ahead.


User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9504 posts, RR: 13
Reply 24, posted (14 years 8 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1629 times:

B727-200 wrote:

On a sadder note, I hear that ANA, ANB are heading back to SIN and BZF is going back to the leasing company.

Thanks for the info! However, do you think VH-ANA and ANB can go back to Ansett, after they have sorted everything out? I mean...... can they be released?

AN could very well lease more B 747-400s from SIA in the future, if they manage to survive.


25 B727-200 : Nothing is impossible going forward. But is it likely??? time will tell.
26 Mx5_boy : Justin, Well said mate. The unions (and AN staff / Pilots) are urging many former flyers and other union member to come out and support AN. Poor Yyz71
28 Skystar : Here's an interesting excerpt from the SMH "Mr Korda, who helped the brewing giant Lion Nathan to buy 46 hotels in a Victorian expansion last year, on
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Structural Reinforcements For The New 787-9 posted Wed Jan 4 2006 22:11:12 by Atmx2000
More One Demolition For The New York History posted Wed Nov 30 2005 17:39:47 by AwysBSB
Any Plans For The New US Airways Express? posted Sun Sep 4 2005 13:30:05 by AkjetBlue
Opening For The New JFK Terminal 8 posted Tue Apr 26 2005 02:36:01 by AA787
Next UAL 772 For The New Colors posted Sat Mar 26 2005 00:45:08 by Nbgskygod
Could PHL Be The Home For The New Virgin America? posted Tue Nov 18 2003 00:52:01 by SunValley
What Name For The New Qantas Discount Airline? posted Sun Nov 9 2003 13:45:41 by Lauda777
International Implications For The DL/NW/CO Union? posted Sat Apr 12 2003 00:57:21 by ConcordeBoy
Reg En Names For The New KLM Fleet posted Fri Mar 21 2003 09:49:37 by Skippy777
Get Excited For The New Dtw! posted Sun Feb 17 2002 21:00:18 by Nwa747-400