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Aircraft Accident At ASE  
User currently offlineBigSaabowski From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 160 posts, RR: 0
Posted (11 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 37458 times:

Just happened 20 minutes ago. According to LIVEATC, N115WF was cleared to land on runway 15 with a wind report of 330/16. The accident happened on landing.

90 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBigSaabowski From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 160 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (11 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 37605 times:

Doesn't look good:

https://twitter.com/StarshipFriends/status/419914264782962688/photo/1


User currently offlinesandyb123 From UK - Scotland, joined Oct 2007, 1133 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (11 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 37489 times:
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Here she is at my home airport EDI:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Lawrence Smith

Photo from aircraft in the line up to take off.

Eye witness reporting 'engine explosion'.

Hoping for the best for all involved.

Sandyb123

[Edited 2014-01-05 11:55:36]


Member of the mile high club
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13248 posts, RR: 36
Reply 3, posted (11 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 37394 times:

The jet went belly up.

http://twitter.com/AirlineFlyer/status/419919979450859520



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineg500 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 1033 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (11 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 37233 times:

Aspen is a very tough approach if you're not familiar....

I'm not talking about this accident because i don't know what happened but if get behind, you'll be high and fast, and the Trust-reversers are not as efficient at a altitude

[Edited 2014-01-05 12:05:27]

User currently offlinejetpixx From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 871 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (11 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 37156 times:

Interesting tweets from celebrity Kevin Nealon, and LeAnn Rimes, who witnessed the crash. Social media is amazing sometimes...

http://twitchy.com/2014/01/05/horrib...sive-plane-crash-at-aspen-airport/


User currently offlineuwbadger0509 From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 6 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (11 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 36969 times:

I am not familiar with ASE...is 33 not used for landing because of terrain? That's a strong tailwind to be dealing with on landing.

User currently offlinerduco From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 38 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (11 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 36916 times:
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some a/c info

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N115WF

inbound from TUS

http://flightaware.com/resources/registration/N115WF

hope everyone is ok



for the alliance
User currently offlineMesaFlyGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 3354 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (11 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 36829 times:
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Just saw it on CNN. Doesn't look good but the aftermath without the flames looks more survivable than I originally thought.

My prayers go out to the passengers and their families. I hope everybody is okay.



\________(---)________/ :) World's most beautiful aircraft: 757-200, MD-88/90, E-190, A321
User currently offlinebnatraveler From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 412 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (11 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 36788 times:
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FORUM MODERATOR

Very familiar with ASE - it's a hard airport to land on. Looks like the flight circled quite a bit on inbound waiting for either traffic or favorable winds to arrive.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N...F/history/20140105/1615Z/KTUS/KASE


User currently offlinemach2is2slowaz From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 62 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (11 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 36352 times:

Looks like they were having issues on approach based on the flight aware track. visibility maybe? I pray that everyone is ok. Aspen is currently closed due to the accident. http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N...F/history/20140105/1615Z/KTUS/KASE
Flightaware track of aircraft before accident in Aspin CO.


User currently offlineSligo From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 148 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (11 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 36278 times:

Quoting bnatraveler (Reply 9):
Very familiar with ASE - it's a hard airport to land on. Looks like the flight circled quite a bit on inbound waiting for either traffic or favorable winds to arrive.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N...F/history/20140105/1615Z/KTUS/KASE

Their circling looked like it was directly into the landing pattern. Pure speculation, but perhaps a missed approach or two?


User currently offlineDwcontroller From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 157 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (11 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 35930 times:

The Aspen Times reporting 3 souls on board; 1 deceased, 1 in critical condition and 1 with minor injuries.


Best phrase to hear at the airport - "All standbys have been cleared and may board at this time"
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 13, posted (11 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 35283 times:

Quoting uwbadger0509 (Reply 6):
I am not familiar with ASE...is 33 not used for landing because of terrain? That's a strong tailwind to be dealing with on landing.

Yes, terrain is a major issue.

Almost always landings are on 15 - especially if a jet aircraft. Takeoffs are almost always on 33.

After takeoff aircraft turn left and use a localizer to direct them out of the valley away from incoming traffic and rising terrain.


User currently offlinebristolflyer From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 2312 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (11 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 33696 times:

Quoting rduco (Reply 7):

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N115WF

Any ideas on what the 360 deg turn was for part way through the flight?



Fortune favours the brave
User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8379 posts, RR: 23
Reply 15, posted (11 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 33400 times:

Quoting bristolflyer (Reply 14):
Any ideas on what the 360 deg turn was for part way through the flight?

Holding/vector for traffic inbound to ASE, most likely.



This Website Censors Me
User currently offlineN243NW From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1641 posts, RR: 20
Reply 16, posted (11 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 32250 times:

Quoting uwbadger0509 (Reply 6):
I am not familiar with ASE...is 33 not used for landing because of terrain?

Yes. For all intensive purposes, ASE is a "one way in, one way out" airport. 16 knots of direct tailwind is huge. Would this be beyond the limits in the AFM?

I sure hope that all the holding didn't mean that the crew no longer had enough fuel to divert elsewhere and therefore were pressured into making the approach in marginal conditions.



B-52s don't take off. They scare the ground away.
User currently offlinerunner13 From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 241 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (11 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 32114 times:

Quoting bristolflyer (Reply 14):
Any ideas on what the 360 deg turn was for part way through the flight?

Just listened to the archive on liveatc. They went around due to a 30 knot tailwind. The falcon that landed before them reported a gain of 20 knots on landing. I would speculate wind had a lot to do with this tragic accident.


User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 18, posted (11 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 31934 times:

Quoting mach2is2slowaz (Reply 10):
Looks like they were having issues on approach based on the flight aware track. visibility maybe?

There is one missed approach or 'look see' - down to 12,500 ft 3.5 miles out from the runway before climbing back and turning. That's almost 5,000 ft above the runway at 3.5 miles.

11 minutes later they went back to the runway and were almost 1,000 ft lower at 4.7 miles from the runway.

The first two loops where all too high to be an approach - where likely circling for other traffic.

ASE is a head to head runway. They have to sequence departure aircraft to go out to avoid incoming aircraft.


User currently offlineJOshu From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (11 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 31268 times:

One heck of an image here:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BdP8DfmCcAA5FVH.jpg:large


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7727 posts, RR: 15
Reply 20, posted (11 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 30760 times:

Quoting JOshu (Reply 19):
One heck of an image here:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BdP8DfmCcAA5FVH.jpg:large

:o Wow

The ski lift is so close to the runway that it is visible in the photo???

[Edited 2014-01-05 14:59:05]

User currently offlinedoug_Or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3443 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (11 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 30378 times:

Quoting N243NW (Reply 16):
Yes. For all intensive purposes

Intents and purposes. While we're at it, moot point, not mute.

That is all.



When in doubt, one B pump off
User currently offlinesuseJ772 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 826 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (11 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 29745 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 20):
The ski lift is so close to the runway that it is visible in the photo???

Yes it is. I have never flown into ASE, but skied there many times. This is arguably the toughest approach in the US. I can't imagine doing it with a 16kts tailwind.



Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
User currently offlinejetjeanes From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1434 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (11 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 29326 times:

Wasnt it Sandra Bullock involved in one of the last Private jets that crashed there and she got out ok,,,


i can see for 80 miles
User currently offlinemesaflyguy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 3354 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (11 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 29322 times:
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Quoting jetjeanes (Reply 23):
Wasnt it Sandra Bullock involved in one of the last Private jets that crashed there and she got out ok,,,

I believe that was JAC, when the plane she was on overran the runway. Nothing to this caliber.  



\________(---)________/ :) World's most beautiful aircraft: 757-200, MD-88/90, E-190, A321
25 Goldenshield : And just in case anyone is wondering, air carriers flying to ASE wouldn't have been attempting an approach with that much tailwind as it exceeded ope
26 jetjeanes : Ive heard it was difficult to get in there,, but do they shutdown at dusk ??
27 rfields5421 : The ski lift start is about 1/2 mile past the end of the runway to the south. You can see where it starts on Google Earth/ Maps. That is completely o
28 mach92 : Having flown into here many times. My company has a 10 knot tailwind MAX at any airport. With the winds reported this aircraft was far beyond the limi
29 suseJ772 : That's what I thought, but didn't know for sure. I know that ASE flight gets cancelled a good bit more than your average flight. Specifically for thi
30 trnswrld : Prayers with everyone involved. I can't imagine what those rescuers have to go through in cases like this. Just the thought of being the first one to
31 Post contains links clickhappy : Yes, the pax can, and sometime do, pressure the crew. The GIII that crashed at ASE was, at least partially, a result of the passengers pressuring the
32 Post contains links and images Plainplane : It's CNN's top story right now, sadly one of the flight crew have perished. http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/05/us/colorado-plane-crash/index.html
33 Post contains images CALMSP : Here's a pic from a family member who lives in ASE.
34 n6238p : Max tailwind component I believe on the CL601 is 10kts. While preliminary, the wind checks on the ATC recording show the plane attempting to land way
35 usxguy : I believe I read that the max tailwind is 10kts for a CL 600/601
36 rwy04lga : I thought the Aaliyah incident at MHH on August 25, 2001 made pressuring/intimidating the crew to perform unsafe acts illegal. Is that not correct?
37 suseJ772 : I have had two people in my life that have given me access to private jets and turboprops. One sounds EXACTLY like the person in the NTSB report and
38 rcair1 : This seems to have changed - I grew up down the valley from Aspen (Carbondale) and I've flown in and landed 33 in Aspen in both private and commercia
39 Post contains links Kaphias : More information from: http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news...fiery-plane-crash-at-aspen-airport "The man who died was identified as the co-pilot, Ser
40 usxguy : Yes --- they didn't want to separate from their makeup and dresses & the original charter operator didn't quite convey the true passenger weights
41 F9Animal : Wasn't the drummer of Blink 182 in a crash at ASE? IIRC, it was a takeoff in the same type of plane?
42 clickhappy : Travis Barker survived a Lear 60 crash at CAE. Four people died in the crash, including his assistant and a body guard.
43 timpdx : So they were going in to pick someone up, makes sense on Sunday after a holiday, those guys don't sit around for 4-5 days while the celebs/VIPs hang o
44 rfields5421 : The CNN article has some good pics - including one which shows the wreckage is just to the right of the runway and with several jets in the backgroun
45 Acey559 : I know our (Eagle) flight into ASE diverted to GJT. Not sure if it was due to the weather or the accident though.
46 pecevanne : Both pilots apparentely to be Ex MEXICANA PILOTS, They were brothers
47 CO953 : This brought back an old sorrow. A beautiful, young friend of mine and her boyfriend lost their lives in the Gulfstream III accident in 2001. The guy
48 skywaymanaz : CO953 I'm sorry to hear about your loss in that accident. It was well publicized though and that may have saved lives later. I know I've mentioned it
49 bristolflyer : You mean a chock? I can't see a big, heavy piece of material being stuck to a wheel strong enough to handle the wheel turning quickly.
50 Post contains images skywaymanaz : I fixed the wrong word in my previous edit You are correct. I've seen jets run them over before but not sure how you don't feel it. Pilot came back o
51 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : Here's a better close-up picture: http://twitter.com/AggieIslander
52 suseJ772 : When we have flown, they only sit on the ground if you are in one day and out the next. Otherwise they move on to the next one. They need to build an
53 DashTrash : Some aircraft can do it, some can't. Last time I was in there Mesa was landing Dash 8s on 33. It wouldn't be a big deal flying a Dash into 33 and I w
54 AvSafety46 : There is an airport in Gelnwood, but a king air 90 is the largest aircraft that can make it work. There is not a lot of room to expand if any and you
55 Post contains images Burchfiel : So sorry to hear that the accident was fatal. May he/she rest in peace.
56 bjorn14 : RIL would be a great alternative as it has 7000' runway and sits on a fairly wide plain. About an hourish drive from ASE.
57 EMBQA : The F/O was a male, 54 and from Mexico[Edited 2014-01-06 12:58:44]
58 canoecarrier : Any word on who they were picking up in Aspen? I haven't seen it mentioned in the media. I've driven by that airport several times doing work in the A
59 Post contains links thegreatchecko : Lynx and I assume RAH still does it all the time. It's the most fun I've had flying an airplane in my life! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP-DydTmjT
60 Post contains links usxguy : After watching this video, I can see how this approach can fry your nerves. Just fwd to about 4:30 and listen to all the alarms going off until the pl
61 FlyHossD : In the early 90's, CO Express tried RIL one winter as a the diversion airport for ASE. As I recall, it was mostly unsuccessful due to the relatively
62 slcdeltarumd11 : EGE is an outstanding facility not far away for that area. MUCH better weather location and a 9,000 runway. Its honestly an hour and 15 minutes in no
63 bjorn14 : EGE is a fine airport but its almost 2 hrs from ASE and in the winter with 'flatlanders' driving through Glenwood Canyon. I dunno.
64 SEA : Lynx no longer exists and Republic have pulled out as well. It's an OO and American Eagle market now.
65 CO953 : Thanks. I just wanted to say a bit about it because last week's accident brought back the shock. She was a humble waitress - very poor - who had met
66 N14AZ : I went through this thread twice but I still don't understand what happened. Of course not a full analysis but how did it crash, did they touchdown an
67 rfields5421 : I've seen nothing on the exact mechanics of what happened. With all the cell phone videos - they are all post crash of the fire - it appears no one ac
68 Post contains images thegreatchecko : As I'm quite aware. I guess I should have said, it was the most fun I've ever had flying an airplane in my life
69 skywaymanaz : I'm not sure I'd be charitable enough to call the charter customer unfortunate. The passengers with him certainly but the customer himself bears a lo
70 clickhappy : I think he meant "unfortunate fellow" to mean his persona which, at least in this case, led to poor decisions and ultimately 18 deaths.
71 ATCtower : I cant comprehend why people are having such a hard time understanding what happened... The A/C went around 8 mins prior reporting a 35kt tailwind. Th
72 skywaymanaz : In this recent incident I think they wanted to be able to tell the client they made two attempts to land at Aspen before diverting to Rifle or Eagle.
73 rwessel : There are four ski areas that are part of the Aspen/Snowmass complex. The lift in question is part of Buttermilk, which is immediately south of the a
74 CO953 : Your two comments, combined raise a subtle, important, intriguing point. As I posted above, I do have a bit of an emotional stake, having lost a frie
75 SEA : Shoot! I really enjoyed Lynx. Flew them many times COS-DEN. Much friendlier crew than United Express.
76 Post contains links okie : Infrared video of the Challenger crash at ASE http://aspenjournalism.org/2014/01/2...releases-video-of-jan-5-jet-crash/ Okie
77 Post contains links JOshu : New footage of KASE crash: http://nation.time.com/2014/01/21/aspen-jet-crash-footage/ Pretty incredible stuff
78 slcdeltarumd11 : In an ideal world you are 100% correct. I am sure that they don't say that often though. The charter plane business is extremely cut throat and compe
79 BreninTW : From the quote below, it appears that all three persons onboard were pilots.
80 rfields5421 : I can't help but wonder about how hard the plane first hit. That bounce up was higher than the DC-10 that rolled at Narita. Then the nose down final c
81 B747400ERF : No, if there are only 3 people on board it means a positioning flight.
82 rcair1 : In the video from, camera 3 I think, you can clearly see blowing snow on the apron. Compare it with the size and movement of the people and you will
83 okie : 16 gusting 25. The tail wind limit is 10kt for the Challenger 30 aircraft landed successfully at ASE that morning although I do not know if there wer
84 26point2 : I have 1500 hours flying the Challenger and can say one of its oddities is the very flat/nose low attitude during touchdown..Challenger has no leading
85 baw716 : After reviewing all five camera shots of the accident, ATC recordings and still photos, here is an analysis of what I have seen and heard from the inf
86 26point2 : Perhaps you are saying the same but to be clear the CL-600 series has a 10 kt Max Tailwind Limitation. Takeoff or landing with any tailwind over 10 k
87 baw716 : It is a tailwind limitation. Takeoff and landing over 10kt tailwind is prohibited on the CL-600... Sorry that wasn't clear. baw716
88 rcair1 : Looking at the video - I think the nose down pitch is significantly more than 15 degrees. It is also very sudden. I certainly don't know the stalling
89 26point2 : Yes. I have 6 years on the CL 601 and 604. As I said a few post prior to yours it's not a stall you are seeing but the Stick Pusher activating. The St
90 rcair1 : Sorry- I missed it. Thanks for your expertise. This makes perfect sense to me given the T-tail configuration of the Challenger. I knew that the goal
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