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PIT Update Thread 28  
User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3136 posts, RR: 4
Posted (6 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 28575 times:

The previous edition was getting long, so here is #28. #27 is archived here PIT Update Thread 27 (by PITrules Aug 5 2013 in Civil Aviation)


FLYi
252 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3136 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (6 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 28612 times:

Visual treat to get this edition started are postcards from my collection of stuff featuring PIT.

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0001-5.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0052-1.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/khg.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0003-3.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0002-4.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/78.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/T2eC16hwwFJcBmQceBSbVNwsRg60_57.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/Scan10005_170.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/ljknh.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/lkhjl.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0004-3.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/79.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/80.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0009-4.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0012-2.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0011-3.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0008-4.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0007-4.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0006-3.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0005-3.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0010-4.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/ljnh.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0013-2.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0016-1.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0015-1.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0014-2.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0022.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0021.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0020-1.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0019-1.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0018-1.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0017-1.jpg



FLYi
User currently offlineboeingkid From United States of America, joined May 2009, 115 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 28436 times:

I love the pictures thank you for posting

User currently onlinesteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9182 posts, RR: 18
Reply 3, posted (6 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 28409 times:

I used to have one of those 1980s postcards, the one with that USAir 727 on 28C...


Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3136 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (6 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 28097 times:

Quoting boeingkid (Reply 2):
I love the pictures thank you for posting

Thanks; hopefully some of the others who work at the airport will continue to post pics of diversions, etc.



Construction to begin on Southern Beltway corridor
"Construction is about to being on a Southern Beltway section that is being hailed as a vital link between the energy corporation headquarters in Washington County and Pittsburgh International Airport."
http://www.observer-reporter.com/art...0113/NEWS01/140119791#.UtS4xrRjKOl


"Passenger numbers up 66 percent at Arnold Palmer Regional"
http://triblive.com/news/westmorelan...t-passengers-flights#axzz2qLckfJaF



FLYi
User currently offlinedumbell2424 From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 914 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 27669 times:
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So PIT awarded a contract for an advertising agency

Quote:
The partnership creates new opportunities for businesses in PIT to increase brand awareness, such as, that to date, have never been explored in this market, including a skybridge billboards, spanning four lanes of traffic, glass graphics, and column wraps in new areas andreaching local passengers as they drive by the terminal. on the lower level In addition, a new Digital program will play 5-second commercials on monitors throughout the terminal.
http://www.aviationpros.com/press_re...irport-unveils-outdoor-advertising


User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3136 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 27668 times:

Here comes a Delta 764 from CDG
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL185

Hopefully some more wide bodies to come this afternoon/evening. There have also been a handful of positioning flights, mainly by US and Republic.

US 757 from DUB:
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AWE723

[Edited 2014-01-21 11:26:17]


FLYi
User currently offlinedumbell2424 From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 914 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 27488 times:
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US 757 from PHX:
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/A...4/history/20140121/1650Z/KPHX/KPIT

DL 738 from MSP:
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/D...4/history/20140121/1900Z/KMSP/KPIT

UA 319 from ORD:
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/U...0/history/20140121/2004Z/KORD/KPIT

and full links for the two in the post above

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/D...5/history/20140121/0940Z/LFPG/KPIT
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/A...3/history/20140121/1115Z/EIDW/KPIT

edit to add: this one is kinda interesting.

US 319 from BOS. Scheduled for BOS-PHL-PIT and it went to PIT from the start. US' website says "Details: The flight will not stop in Philadelphia but will continue to the scheduled destination of Pittsburgh."
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/A...0/history/20140121/1630Z/KBOS/KPIT

[Edited 2014-01-21 18:02:29]

User currently offlinekrod031 From United States of America, joined Dec 2013, 34 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 27142 times:

US Will move operations center to Dallas. Sad for the 600 local US Employees, but not shocking news


http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2014/...ways-moving-pittsburgh-operations/


User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3136 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (6 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 27011 times:

"Plans already underway for newly closed operations center in Moon Township"
http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburg...already-underway-for.html?page=all

With Pgh's tight office market this building won't sit vacant for long.

However this news and the news that the 911th air wing has yet another fight for survival on its hands seems to indicate 2014 will shape up to be another bland year for PIT as I also don't foresee one new route added this year by the current airlines serving PIT.



FLYi
User currently offlinedumbell2424 From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 914 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (6 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 26829 times:
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AF1 may be making a visit Wednesday. Doesn't say how POTUS will be traveling.

Quote:
President Barack Obama plans to visit Pittsburgh on Wednesday, a day after delivering the State of the Union address, the White House announced Saturday.

The White House will release details of Obama's visit “in the coming days,” a White House official said
http://triblive.com/news/adminpage/5...74/obama-visit-plans#axzz2rLtNWjV9


User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3136 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (6 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 26612 times:

Yet another rundown on the saga of US Airways pulling down PIT.

http://www.post-gazette.com/local/we...curring-theme/stories/201401260180

Some interesting tidbits though, such as confirmation that Kent George, the ACAA Chief Exec who presided over the pull down, had and continues to have no idea about the realities of the industry.

"But Mr. George, formerly of the county Airport Authority, questioned the decision. He pointed out that the Moon center handled all US Airways domestic and international traffic even though Pittsburgh wasn't a hub and the airline's headquarters was in Phoenix.

"I don't understand what they're doing. It's a brand-new facility that I would think is capable of handling the entire new airline," he said.
"

There is not one reason why the DFW SOC would be closed so that PIT can remain.

"I don't fault US Airways for how they are establishing their route structure and where they're going to put their focus cities. What I fought them on was the way they did it," Mr. George said."

Fight them over "the way they did it"? Not exactly choosing your battles very well. In the mean time, this is the guy who wasted money on an unneeded wide body deice pad and an addition to the landside terminal all while the airport's costs were already sky high.

US Airways decision to pull down PIT was business, not personal. All the focus on this is ridiculous at a time airlines have increased seats at PIT over the past year by 4% while traffic is actually lower over the past year. A horrible combination for an airport. AA's new PIT-LAX flight goes out half full on most days. The ACAA and local leaders need to focus on the current challenges.



FLYi
User currently onlinesteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9182 posts, RR: 18
Reply 12, posted (6 months 6 days ago) and read 26568 times:

Quoting PITrules (Reply 11):
US Airways decision to pull down PIT was business, not personal. All the focus on this is ridiculous at a time airlines have increased seats at PIT over the past year by 4% while traffic is actually lower over the past year. A horrible combination for an airport. AA's new PIT-LAX flight goes out half full on most days. The ACAA and local leaders need to focus on the current challenges.

Good points. I'm trying to figure out why that 738 is only half full. The traffic is definitely there to support such a flight. Is the flight not timed well? Does it offer adequate onward connections to the rest of the West Coast as well as to Hawaii and the South Pacific? Is is possible for AA to switch the time so that they can gain in LF?



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlinedumbell2424 From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 914 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (6 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 26435 times:
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Quoting dumbell2424 (Reply 10):

Just noticed the TFR filed:

Quote:
Area A
Airspace Definition:
Center: On the MONTOUR VORTAC (MMJ) 290 degree radial at 2 nautical miles. (Latitude: 40º29'42"N, Longitude: 80º14'13"W)
Radius: 30 nautical miles
Altitude: From the surface up to but not including 18000 feet MSL
Effective Date(s):
From January 29, 2014 at 1645 UTC (January 29, 2014 at 1145 EST)
To January 29, 2014 at 1745 UTC (January 29, 2014 at 1245 EST)
Area B
Airspace Definition:
Center: On the MONTOUR VORTAC (MMJ) 290 degree radial at 2 nautical miles. (Latitude: 40º29'42"N, Longitude: 80º14'13"W)
Radius: 10 nautical miles
Altitude: From the surface up to but not including 18000 feet MSL
Effective Date(s):
From January 29, 2014 at 1645 UTC (January 29, 2014 at 1145 EST)
To January 29, 2014 at 1745 UTC (January 29, 2014 at 1245 EST)
Area C
Airspace Definition:
Center: On the ALLEGHENY VOR/DME (AGC) 078 degree radial at 6 nautical miles. (Latitude: 40º18'54"N, Longitude: 79º55'12"W)
Radius: 30 nautical miles
Altitude: From the surface up to but not including 18000 feet MSL
Effective Date(s):
From January 29, 2014 at 1700 UTC (January 29, 2014 at 1200 EST)
To January 29, 2014 at 2015 UTC (January 29, 2014 at 1515 EST)
Area D
Airspace Definition:
Center: On the ALLEGHENY VOR/DME (AGC) 078 degree radial at 6 nautical miles. (Latitude: 40º18'54"N, Longitude: 79º55'12"W)
Radius: 10 nautical miles
Altitude: From the surface up to but not including 18000 feet MSL
Effective Date(s):
From January 29, 2014 at 1700 UTC (January 29, 2014 at 1200 EST)
To January 29, 2014 at 2015 UTC (January 29, 2014 at 1515 EST)
Area E
Airspace Definition:
Center: On the MONTOUR VORTAC (MMJ) 290 degree radial at 2 nautical miles. (Latitude: 40º29'42"N, Longitude: 80º14'13"W)
Radius: 30 nautical miles
Altitude: From the surface up to but not including 18000 feet MSL
Effective Date(s):
From January 29, 2014 at 1930 UTC (January 29, 2014 at 1430 EST)
To January 29, 2014 at 2100 UTC (January 29, 2014 at 1600 EST)
Area F
Airspace Definition:
Center: On the MONTOUR VORTAC (MMJ) 290 degree radial at 2 nautical miles. (Latitude: 40º29'42"N, Longitude: 80º14'13"W)
Radius: 10 nautical miles
Altitude: From the surface up to but not including 18000 feet MSL
Effective Date(s):
From January 29, 2014 at 1930 UTC (January 29, 2014 at 1430 EST)
To January 29, 2014 at 2100 UTC (January 29, 2014 at 1600 EST)


User currently offlinebeiaard From United States of America, joined May 2011, 46 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 26413 times:

Quoting PITrules (Reply 1):

Great stuff. Is that mobile visible in roughly the 17th photo from the top the same as the one that currently is in the Midfield terminal?



Tolling the bells of the Swamp to delight the Common Spirit
User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3136 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (6 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 26302 times:

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 12):
Is the flight not timed well? Does it offer adequate onward connections to the rest of the West Coast as well as to Hawaii and the South Pacific?

It does offer connections, however the down time at LAX for South Pacific connections is quite long. The problem with a 5pm departure is it does not allow for a full business day in Pittsburgh. It should be scheduled to depart later, or first thing in the morning.

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 12):
Is is possible for AA to switch the time so that they can gain in LF?

I'm sure there is a reason it is scheduled as is. Perhaps lack of gate space at LAX. I'm hopeful loads will improve as the US/AA integration continues, and hopefully they would use a smaller A-319 before considering axing frequencies.

Production of at least 3 more movies is set to begin in Pittsburgh in the next few months, that should help things as well.

Quoting beiaard (Reply 14):

Great stuff. Is that mobile visible in roughly the 17th photo from the top the same as the one that currently is in the Midfield terminal?

Thanks; I believe it is the same mobile but not 100% sure. Perhaps someone that works at the airport can answer that one.



FLYi
User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3136 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (6 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 25929 times:

I'm not sure what to think of this one...


"Allegheny County wooing Emirates airline"
http://www.post-gazette.com/local/re...rates-airline/stories/201401310091


The 'hub' idea is a non starter, unless the intent is to fly to PIT as a spoke and set up code shares with domestic carriers here which may be slightly more realistic but still not probable.

OTOH, with the amount of airplanes EK will be getting, I don't think it is out of the realm of possibility EK will be serving medium sized markets with healthy economies; such as RDU, MSP, etc. within 5 years. Similar idea to BA's entry into AUS.

Also, with PIT's location between the northeast and midwest, it makes sense to make a case to Emirates SkyCargo for a flight combined with road feeder service. Add to that PIT promoting itself to be a primary A380 diversion airport for EK .... this trip isn't a total wasted effort.



FLYi
User currently offlineGSP psgr From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 160 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 25908 times:

With the combined new fleet that US/AA will have, perhaps it would simply make more sense to run PIT-LAX as a 319 or E90 (90-125) seats route rather than a 738 (160-ish). Also, keep in mind that the new AA flight competes almost directly with United's nonstop, rather than having a distinctly different departure time (such as a morning departure PIT-LAX).

User currently onlinesteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9182 posts, RR: 18
Reply 18, posted (6 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 25818 times:

Quoting PITrules (Reply 16):

So they want to get EK to set up a hub at PIT? Yeah, as stated in the article, Johnny Law will say no to this...

Quoting GSP psgr (Reply 17):
With the combined new fleet that US/AA will have, perhaps it would simply make more sense to run PIT-LAX as a 319 or E90 (90-125) seats route rather than a 738 (160-ish).

Does the E90 even have the range? That's roughly 2300 miles or so from PIT-LAX. Plus, who would want to spend 6 hours in a rather small cabin? I think the A319 idea would be more logical. Didn't US use the A319 on this route right up until they axed service a few years or so ago?



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineFlaps From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1261 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (6 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 25804 times:

My god Larry Fitzgerald is an even bigger idiot than i thought. If his ignorance of aviation and PIT's options/potential is any reflection on his knowledge base in general this county is in a LOT of trouble. EK? Old larry must be smoking crack with his counterpart up in Toronto. You couldn't fill a 777 to DXB once a month if you consolidated all of the middle east and Asian traffic for the entire month out of PIT onto that flight.

Looks like another excuse for an expensive political jaunt at best.


User currently offlineLogos From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 793 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (6 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 25769 times:

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 18):
Does the E90 even have the range? That's roughly 2300 miles or so from PIT-LAX. Plus, who would want to spend 6 hours in a rather small cabin?

It's got the range. AC used to run it for YYZ-SAN. It's not quite a 6 hour flight, either, as flightaware lists the AA flight at 5:10 scheduled today westbound which includes winter winds. That's probably about as bad as it ever gets. The seats themselves in an E190 are wider than those in a 737, too, so I don't think comfort would be that bad at all actually.

Cheers,
Dave in Orlando



Too many types flown to list
User currently offlinedumbell2424 From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 914 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (6 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 25715 times:
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Quoting PITrules (Reply 16):
"Allegheny County wooing Emirates airline"
http://www.post-gazette.com/local/re...10091

Best news article I've read all week.      

Quoting Logos (Reply 20):
The seats themselves in an E190 are wider than those in a 737, too, so I don't think comfort would be that bad at all actually.

      Also no middle seats.


User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3136 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (6 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 25660 times:

Quoting GSP psgr (Reply 17):
With the combined new fleet that US/AA will have, perhaps it would simply make more sense to run PIT-LAX as a 319 or E90 (90-125) seats route rather than a 738 (160-ish).

I've suggested the A319 as well, but there may be a downside with first class offerings. There are times when the first class is fully booked on the 738. AA's A319s only have half the first class seats. Is the extra revenue generated by a full first class enough to offset the higher operating costs of a 738? Only AA has that data. Of course they could schedule a 738 on some days and an A319 on others.

I've never been on US' E190s, but if the first class offering is not up to par to AA's A319s or 737s, then the E190 is a non starter for this route.

Quoting Flaps (Reply 19):
If his ignorance of aviation and PIT's options/potential is any reflection on his knowledge base in general this county is in a LOT of trouble. EK? Old larry must be smoking crack with his counterpart up in Toronto.

I'm certainly no fan of his, but I'll give him a tiny bit of credit for at least thinking outside the box. I'm sure there will be other trade related business as part of this trip as well.

Quoting Flaps (Reply 19):
You couldn't fill a 777 to DXB once a month if you consolidated all of the middle east and Asian traffic for the entire month out of PIT onto that flight.

Demand certainly isn't there today. But I don't think demand is that grim to that part of the world. Demand to cities such as Shanghai, Beijing, Seoul, Delhi, etc is not much lower than that of any city in Europe outside London. Also, growth to those markets from PIT has been 200-300% during the past 10 years.
http://www.brookings.edu/research/interactives/aviation

One amazing thing about Emirates is their track record of stimulating markets where there was none. SEA for example struggled to fill a 772 when EK first began. Barely 2 years later the route is being upgauged to a 77W.

Does than mean I think EK serving PIT will become a reality any time soon? Of course not. Should Fitzy be spending his time with Frontier and Alaska instead? Absolutely. But like I said earlier, in about five years time strong medium sized white collar markets such as RDU, AUS, MSP, etc will be fair game for EK service. If Pittsburgh's economy continues to evolve in the next 5 years like it did in the last 5 years, I don't hesitate at all to put Pittsburgh in the same league as those cities. I actually have no issues with this trip to Dubai.



FLYi
User currently offlinetarmacphotos From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 382 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (6 months 17 hours ago) and read 25531 times:

Quoting PITrules (Reply 16):
I'm not sure what to think of this one...

Sounds like Fitzy and his wife want a vacation to Dubai on the taxpayers dime, so he made up this bogus reason. Nothing ever changes with these Allegheny County politicians.


User currently offlinedumbell2424 From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 914 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (5 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 25365 times:
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News today of CLE hub closing down for UA...I doubt the Dash 8 will stick around.

User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3136 posts, RR: 4
Reply 25, posted (5 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 25550 times:

Yep, those flights will be gone for sure. One less city on our route map.


"Pittsburgh International struggling despite the region's robust economy"
http://triblive.com/business/headlin...ittsburgh-fitzgerald#axzz2s8EF5JqZ



FLYi
User currently onlinesteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9182 posts, RR: 18
Reply 26, posted (5 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 25496 times:

Quoting dumbell2424 (Reply 24):
News today of CLE hub closing down for UA...I doubt the Dash 8 will stick around.
Quoting PITrules (Reply 25):
Yep, those flights will be gone for sure. One less city on our route map.


"Pittsburgh International struggling despite the region's robust economy"
http://triblive.com/business/headlin...ittsburgh-fitzgerald#axzz2s8EF5JqZ

A fellow A.netter on Facebook posted the news story. That royally sucks for CLE. Granted it would be one less city in the route network, but how many people do fly between PIT and CLE? I guess if people would rather drive; all the power to 'em. Personally, I still think rail is a better option than the Turnpike...

Still, though, isn't CLE"s economy still floundering?



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineCush From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (5 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 25625 times:

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 26):
but how many people do fly between PIT and CLE?

It isn't folks flying between PIT and CLE as an end destination, but connecting in Cleveland for flights elsewhere.

A while ago, I was pricing flights on United, and my options for connections were ORD / CLE / EWR / IAD. What awful options! It's funny... I think of other US airports and cringe. I think of PIT and I feel at ease. We really are lucky to have such a great airport, albeit a lack of a single large airline presence.



Fly me to the moon let me play among the stars.
User currently offlinetarmacphotos From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 382 posts, RR: 2
Reply 28, posted (5 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 25577 times:

Quoting Cush (Reply 27):
A while ago, I was pricing flights on United, and my options for connections were ORD / CLE / EWR / IAD. What awful options!

Connection options from PIT (and anywhere else without much non-stop service) sucks on the East Coast. The only airport I enjoy connecting on the East Coast is CLT. I will NEVER connect in PHL or any of the New York area messes. ATL, IAD, ORD and MIA are also messes. CLE was actually not a bad connection airport if flying UA compared to the others.


User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3136 posts, RR: 4
Reply 29, posted (5 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 25385 times:

AC Milan and Manchester City will be playing in Pittsburgh in July; hopefully we will see some interesting team charters.
http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/o...t-Heinz-Field/stories/201402020217



FLYi
User currently offlineJetBlue1058 From United States of America, joined Mar 2013, 120 posts, RR: 1
Reply 30, posted (5 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 25255 times:

Looks like LBE is losing its Nonstop LBE-DFW flights on Spirit at the beginning of April.


JetBlue E190 seats, 5D and 16A= no better place in the world
User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3136 posts, RR: 4
Reply 31, posted (5 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 25107 times:

"Closing of Cleveland United hub could benefit Pittsburgh International Airport"
http://triblive.com/business/headlin...nd-pittsburgh-united#axzz2sEkaIVSq

" United's announcement gives Pittsburgh an opportunity to gain passengers, said Brad Penrod, Allegheny County Airport Authority's president and chief strategy officer. The airport has spent about $450,000 annually for five years to advertise in the Cleveland, Akron and Youngstown markets.

“Because of that advertising presence as these people seek to fill that void, we'd like to think a few more passengers out of that region will be Pittsburgh passengers,” Penrod said. “This will give us an opportunity to expand our marketplace area. It's a positive for us.”
"

Mr. Penrod is such a dimwit if he really believes this. PIT has benefited from the domination of one airline and resulting high fares at CLE as those customers have driven down in search of lower air fares. With CLE's de-hubbing, fares there will come down resulting in less people driving to PIT in search of lower fares. Not to mention CLE instantly becoming a lot more attractive market for other airlines looking to expand.

[Edited 2014-02-04 04:42:08]


FLYi
User currently onlinesteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9182 posts, RR: 18
Reply 32, posted (5 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 25028 times:

Quoting JetBlue1058 (Reply 30):
Looks like LBE is losing its Nonstop LBE-DFW flights on Spirit at the beginning of April.

That sucks. But isn't that more of a business destination rather than leisure, and isn't NK's clientelle mostly leisure? I remember people arguing that when LBE-DFW was announced..

Quoting PITrules (Reply 31):
Mr. Penrod is such a dimwit if he really believes this. PIT has benefited from the domination of one airline and resulting high fares at CLE as those customers have driven down in search of lower air fares. With CLE's de-hubbing, fares there will come down resulting in less people driving to PIT in search of lower fares. Not to mention CLE instantly becoming a lot more attractive market for other airlines looking to expand.

Agreed. There's speculation that they could be wooing B6 for JFK and/or BOS service and perhaps a few more destinations.

WN already has a presence there, they could consider building up CLE...

I guess they could add a few more FLA destinations, maybe some Northeastern markets and/or possibly PHX...

Does AS serve CLE? If they don't already and do end up coming to CLE, that might hamper any chances of PIT possibly landing them...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlinethreeifbyair From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 672 posts, RR: 0
Reply 33, posted (5 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 24986 times:

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 32):
Does AS serve CLE? If they don't already and do end up coming to CLE, that might hamper any chances of PIT possibly landing them...

AS doesn't serve CLE (or anywhere in Kentucky/Ohio/Indiana/Michigan for that matter - that is the largest hole in the network). The Big 4 get a lot of their connecting flows from SEA over the Midwest hubs to the cities east of Chicago. I always see a lot of bag tags and boarding passes to those destinations on my flights.

CLE is right at the edge of viability from SEA; PDEW in the on-season is right about the level to fill a 738, but off season is tough. Unfortunately, this is true for most of the remaining dots to connect to SEA; high seasonality, low AS brand recognition, local traffic is loyal to the Big 4 and no major corporate connections.

The next move for AS could be to open a new station, but AS is also responding to DL's SEA buildup. AS also has gate space constraints in the AM peak departing SEA.

For new AS stations, PIT would be evaluated alongside CLE, IND, MSY, RDU, and TPA, which are the largest markets from SEA without any n/s service.

Of those cities, TPA is the largest market, but has the lowest yields (and AS serves MCO 2x daily). PIT has the best yield but the lowest pax numbers.

CLE, IND, and MSY are fairly similar in terms of stage length, demand, and yields. Unfortunately, on balance I think they are ahead of PIT for getting SEA service.


User currently offlinekubus From Poland, joined Dec 2005, 181 posts, RR: 1
Reply 34, posted (5 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 24698 times:

Two things:
if you are on US flight, grab the in flight mag and look at the combined fleet listings... apparently EMB145 looks exactly like ERJ170 and 737 is now in shape of A320 series. Gave me a chuckle.

Second. I just noticed the talk about AA LAX flight and questioning the timing of the flight. I just want to point out that B6's flights to JFK failed because of the bad timing for what is a major business route. Couple weeks ago I was on a DL flight to LGA and was offered a front seat on JFK flight and a voucher for future flight, so I took it. I finally understood why no sane person with a day business trip wants to fly in/out of JFK. The commute into Mid-Town was over 1.5 hrs for $24 on public transportation (I took LIRR), where from LGA using Q70 bus and E or F train takes roughly 45min and $2.50.
However
I'll put up with the schedule, just to get the $120 fare back.


User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3136 posts, RR: 4
Reply 35, posted (5 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 24638 times:

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 32):
But isn't that more of a business destination rather than leisure, and isn't NK's clientelle mostly leisure? I remember people arguing that when LBE-DFW was announced..

My take on this was LBE is more leisure based and DFW service was quite a surprise. But a pleasant one, because if DFW works as a business market then it opens up a whole bunch of other business possibilities from LBE (CHI, BOS, etc). So that was not to be, but I still think LBE-ACY/RSW/LAS are still possible.

Quoting kubus (Reply 34):
Second. I just noticed the talk about AA LAX flight and questioning the timing of the flight. I just want to point out that B6's flights to JFK failed because of the bad timing for what is a major business route. Couple weeks ago I was on a DL flight to LGA and was offered a front seat on JFK flight and a voucher for future flight, so I took it. I finally understood why no sane person with a day business trip wants to fly in/out of JFK. The commute into Mid-Town was over 1.5 hrs for $24 on public transportation (I took LIRR), where from LGA using Q70 bus and E or F train takes roughly 45min and $2.50.

I know we've discussed this before, but I don't see how B6 did not offer a descent schedule for business travellers considering they offered 4x daily flights each way when they started. The problem wasn't B6's initial schedule, it was local flyers staying committed to US despite it being JetBlue causing airfares to be slashed.

Also, only a small percentage of travelers go to mid town Manhattan. What about lower Manhattan? The rest of the metro? JFK serves more domestic passengers than LGA now (or will shortly) so I don't buy into the LGA 'convenience' factor too much.



FLYi
User currently onlinesteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9182 posts, RR: 18
Reply 36, posted (5 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 24435 times:

Quoting PITrules (Reply 35):
Also, only a small percentage of travelers go to mid town Manhattan. What about lower Manhattan?

Do you suppose anyone would be ballsy enough to go up against UA on PIT-EWR if people would rather go into Lower Manhattan versus Midtown...

What does UA run on PIT-EWR, isn't that mostly ExpressJet flying?



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineFlaps From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1261 posts, RR: 4
Reply 37, posted (5 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 24427 times:

Quoting PITrules (Reply 35):
The problem wasn't B6's initial schedule, it was local flyers staying committed to US despite it being JetBlue causing airfares to be slashed.

I must disagree. While your point about the US FF's is quite valid, B6 had a horrible schedule to JFK. Combined with poor connecting opportunities and fares beyond JFK that weren't very competitive the service was doomed. I bent over backwards trying to fly B6 and could almost never find an out and back schedule to JFK that worked effectively for business and as mentioned before the connections were never competitive. This was over a period of several years so these were not isolated instances. Often I could get one way or the other to work but never a round trip,

When someone wants to fly you, tries to fly you, and goes out of their way to fly you and still cant create a usable itinerary then you have an issue.


User currently offlinedumbell2424 From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 914 posts, RR: 2
Reply 38, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 24193 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 36):
What does UA run on PIT-EWR, isn't that mostly ExpressJet flying?

Not even....the grand majority is Q400s with an occasional E135/170.


User currently offlineJetBlue1058 From United States of America, joined Mar 2013, 120 posts, RR: 1
Reply 39, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 24150 times:

Flaps- you are probably in the small (slim) percent that attempted to try B6 whenever, instead of the vast majority of yinzers just saw low fares and went oh yes yes (US with low fares) yes yes!
Whatever, this topic has been beaten to death other the past year, and people will continue to disagree, while I bet very few of you have made the effort to support B6 here in PIT, by flying through BOS during the past year.
-Frequent JetBlue flyer and diehard fan.



JetBlue E190 seats, 5D and 16A= no better place in the world
User currently offlineJetBlueCLT From United States of America, joined Oct 2013, 98 posts, RR: 0
Reply 40, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 24155 times:

Quoting JetBlue1058 (Reply 39):
Quoting Flaps (Reply 37):

I know it's unfortunate that PIT lost B6 service from JFK. I think in the long run it's better for you guys. I can't speak for PIT but I'm a jetBlue flyer down in CLT and we have 2X BOS and 2X JFK. Our schedules are terrible aka "token service". My reasoning is with your loss of PIT-JFK, B6 added flights from BOS to PIT to give you guys a real "schedule" not some token service. I'm not trying to state the obvious. I'm emphasizing how much you guys can benefit from it. I would hate to lose JFK but I much rather have a schedule of flights rather than two moring flights and two evening flights and hey at least US is only using CRJs and E175s lol



On the ground spotting JetBlue or sitting on a JetBlue plane at FL350
User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3136 posts, RR: 4
Reply 41, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 23766 times:

Here are the DoT daily (each way) passenger numbers and average fares in the following currently unserved markets to SEA in June '13:

PIT-SEA 202 $314
*CLE-SEA 263 $285
IND-SEA 283 $270
RDU-SEA 263 $310

*IIRC CLE had service to SEA at the time of the report. Since merely having service increases passenger numbers by about 30% those numbers are inflated if we are to make a fair comparison to the unserved markets. Also, as CLE loses its hub and competition increases the fares there will come down, so keep that in mind as well.

Now that MSY and TPA are out of the way, I think RDU-SEA would be the next obvious choice based on those numbers. But after that PIT might actually have a descent shot at AS service.




"Arnold Palmer Regional Airport focuses on busy routes"
http://triblive.com/news/westmorelan...t-flights-passengers#axzz2stcCUfle



Also of note today is a spiked increase of corporate jet traffic at PIT from Chevron and the energy industry, no doubt due to a local gas well explosion and ongoing fire.



FLYi
User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3136 posts, RR: 4
Reply 42, posted (5 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 23572 times:

Here comes the diversion of the day, an Emirates B773

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAE231

Also a US A332
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AWE832

[Edited 2014-02-13 06:38:56]


FLYi
User currently offlinedumbell2424 From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 914 posts, RR: 2
Reply 43, posted (5 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 23482 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting PITrules (Reply 42):
an Emirates B773

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAE231

This was totally planned, they're testing out the facilities and meeting Fitzgerald for the new hub.     

A couple others:

US 321 MCO-PHL http://flightaware.com/live/flight/A...7/history/20140213/1250Z/KMCO/KPIT
US 319 MSP-PHL http://flightaware.com/live/flight/A...7/history/20140213/1300Z/KMSP/KPIT
US 320 MIA-PHL http://flightaware.com/live/flight/A...1/history/20140213/1245Z/KMIA/KPIT
US 319 BWI-PHL http://flightaware.com/live/flight/A...4/history/20140213/1010Z/KBWI/KPIT
US 190 AUS-PHL http://flightaware.com/live/flight/A...8/history/20140213/1345Z/KAUS/KPIT

[Edited 2014-02-13 09:05:59]

[Edited 2014-02-13 09:06:26]

User currently offlinetooluther From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 305 posts, RR: 1
Reply 44, posted (5 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 23364 times:

A couple pictures of diversions from the PIT Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10152289616608933&type=3&l=d2d645ef46


User currently offlinetarmacphotos From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 382 posts, RR: 2
Reply 45, posted (5 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 23267 times:

Quoting dumbell2424 (Reply 43):
This was totally planned, they're testing out the facilities and meeting Fitzgerald for the new hub.    

I'm pretty sure they will spin it that way.


User currently offlinepliersinsight From United States of America, joined May 2008, 490 posts, RR: 0
Reply 46, posted (5 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 23135 times:

Quoting tooluther (Reply 44):

A couple pictures of diversions from the PIT Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10152289616608933&type=3&l=d2d645ef46

Yes, the PIT Facebook page, where they don't even know how many people the standard 777 or A330 configuration will carry, here's a hint, it is not 500+........


User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 47, posted (5 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 23016 times:

Quoting JetBlueCLT (Reply 40):
B6 added flights from BOS to PIT to give you guys a real "schedule"

B6 still doesn't have an early morning departure out of PIT into BOS and late return but US does offer it.

I wonder with US/AA slowly downsizing MDT-BOS, if these point to point BOS routes by US are vulnerable. If B6 added that one to two extra flights to put pressure on PIT-BOS so it offers an even more comprehensive PIT-BOS schedule then if US/AA would pull out. And to get loyalty from PIT pax while B6 and US duke it out, additionally, if it offered one leisure route like PIT-FLL where it can also connect pax to more destinations from there.

There are so many opportunities for the new AA to link existing ORD only markets to PHL and existing PHL/CLT only markets to ORD, that defending BOS point to point routes probably will be of lower priority, and B6 could claim this route to themselves atleast for awhile before DL starts it up.


User currently offlineFlaps From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1261 posts, RR: 4
Reply 48, posted (5 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 23012 times:

If AA/US ever dropped BOS-PIT I would imagine DL would be back on it before B6 could generate a press release.

User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3136 posts, RR: 4
Reply 49, posted (5 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 22900 times:

" Passenger traffic at Pittsburgh International Airport for 2013 was down 2 percent compared to 2012, airport officials said Friday.

The airport in Findlay recorded 7.85 million passengers compared to 8 million in 2012.
"
http://triblive.com/news/adminpage/5...airport-percent-2012#axzz2tKtk0OG6



FLYi
User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3136 posts, RR: 4
Reply 50, posted (5 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 22333 times:

Last week I noticed AA's PIT-LAX now departs at 1750, which is much better than the earlier 1700 (and 1630 before that) departure time. Hopefully this will help increase demand for the flight.

Speaking of AA, diversions coming to include a 757, A321, 762, and 763 among others:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL2250
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL118
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL1508
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL2493

Nice to see two AA 767s. Also a DL 737 from Bogota

[Edited 2014-02-21 12:11:04]


FLYi
User currently offlinethreeifbyair From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 672 posts, RR: 0
Reply 51, posted (5 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 22274 times:

Quoting PITrules (Reply 50):
Last week I noticed AA's PIT-LAX now departs at 1750, which is much better than the earlier 1700 (and 1630 before that) departure time. Hopefully this will help increase demand for the flight.

Looks like it will be changing again, however, to depart at 1215. I'm not sure when exactly the change happens but I saw it come up as part of a bizarre PIT-SEA routing (PIT-LAX-SFO-SEA) when I priced some flights for late May.

The actual date of the time change could be earlier. Not sure what AA intends to do with this flight. The return becomes a 1545 departure from LAX, arriving into PIT at 2330. 12h45m is a lot of downtime for the 738 though. AA doesn't appear to be changing the equipment on the DFW flights so I guess the 738 just sits.


User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3136 posts, RR: 4
Reply 52, posted (5 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 22329 times:

Quoting threeifbyair (Reply 51):

Looks like it will be changing again, however, to depart at 1215.

I have no idea what they are doing with this flight. So it goes to a 1215 departure in May like you said, then in mid-June it goes back to a 1630 departure  



FLYi
User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 53, posted (5 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 21979 times:

As an alternative to the expensive US nonstop fare between PHL-PIT and the long Turnpike drive, I flew TTN-CLE and found it an overall good experience on F9 on an evening flight. From there, I rented a car at CLE and then drove on a pretty straight multi-lane OH Turnpike for an hour, and chose to stay overnight in a hotel in the Niles I-80 junction area. Then, I drove one hour to Pittsburgh the next morning.

This was a lot more relaxing than driving the Turnpike from PHL to PIT area. The Turnpike drive (East to West) is fine on a nice sunny weekend day starting in the morning and arriving by daytime, but from my experiences, it's not worth the hassle if I want to be at a Pittsburgh on Monday morning without having the Sunday be totally wasted on drive.

I have stayed in Harrisburg to Somerset areas where hotels are cheaper and splits the drive, but even doing that, I found the Turnpike hassling and feeling less safe driving on the turnpike in the night, esp. going west around the mountainous, swervy area where it's still only two lanes and every other vehicle is a tractor trailer, and the hotshot driver that needs to go over 80mph in the left lane.

Overall, I enjoyed the flight option and arrived far more rested. F9 has some $50 one-way fares as well or $45 after a promo code.

WN has some PHL-MDW-PIT flights but low fares are more rare and require a far advance purchase, like only one Sunday (Mar. 9 with a $136 WGA). Unlike PHL parking, I parked very close to the gate in TTN that can't be beat.

I hope that F9 realizes there is a market for TTN shorthaul possible to PIT and IAG/BUF even though it might think that the Turnpike for PIT might taper demand. It's still a long drive. Raleigh and Cleveland are driveable within a day and yet F9 flies TTN-RDU and TTN-CLE. The hard parts of the drive from Philly are within 6 hours of Philly, and not really the extra 2-3 hours that one of those region drive(s) has over the Philly to Pittsburgh drive.

Might F9 consider PIT again for domestic service: Maybe I could see TTN-PIT and consideration for PIT-MKE again? Considering that PIT-Chicago fares aren't really low, if F9 priced PIT-MKE with low fares, maybe some would fly to MKE and drive into Chicago and stay at a ORD hotel, and take the Blue Line so there would be the Chicago appeal. And, then of course, F9 capturing some actual O&D between PIT area and MKE/Wisconsin where pax might drive as far as Madison.

[Edited 2014-02-24 09:34:23]

User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3136 posts, RR: 4
Reply 54, posted (5 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 21881 times:

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 53):
I hope that F9 realizes there is a market for TTN shorthaul possible to PIT and IAG/BUF even though it might think that the Turnpike for PIT might taper demand. It's still a long drive. Raleigh and Cleveland are driveable within a day and yet F9 flies TTN-RDU and TTN-CLE. The hard parts of the drive from Philly are within 6 hours of Philly, and not really the extra 2-3 hours that one of those region drive(s) has over the Philly to Pittsburgh drive.

Might F9 consider PIT again for domestic service: Maybe I could see TTN-PIT and consideration for PIT-MKE again? Considering that PIT-Chicago fares aren't really low, if F9 priced PIT-MKE with low fares, maybe some would fly to MKE and drive into Chicago and stay at a ORD hotel, and take the Blue Line so there would be the Chicago appeal. And, then of course, F9 capturing some actual O&D between PIT area and MKE/Wisconsin where pax might drive as far as Madison.

The more that F9 expands, the more PIT becomes a larger hole in their network. When I see them add routes like CLE-SEA and STL-PDX, I scratch my head more and more as to why they seem to be ignoring this market (other than PUJ/CUN).

Pgh-Philly is a large travel market, much larger than the current PDEW stats show because the market is so depressed because of the high air fares. If folks are willing to fly TTN-CLE then rent a car to drive to PIT like you just did, I really think that "drives" home the point.

I can only hope that F9 will enter the domestic PIT market at some point in the near future with 3-4 destinations like these other cities.



FLYi
User currently offlineOak522 From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 55, posted (5 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 21787 times:

Are we going to see AA move into B any time soon? Also, any chance of a hot meal on AA ex-PIT? I'm rather over "continental breakfast."

User currently onlinesteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9182 posts, RR: 18
Reply 56, posted (5 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 21696 times:

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 53):
and the hotshot driver that needs to go over 80mph in the left lane.

That's IF he STAYS in the left lane!!   

Quoting PITrules (Reply 54):
The more that F9 expands, the more PIT becomes a larger hole in their network. When I see them add routes like CLE-SEA and STL-PDX, I scratch my head more and more as to why they seem to be ignoring this market (other than PUJ/CUN).

Those routes aren't even daily and/or year-round, are they?

The PHL-PIT market definitely is there, and US(AA) is not too big or bad for anyone else to handle. IMHO, WN could have kept PIT-PHL going, but 1) they were changing their model that had more to do with their PHL ops and not PIT, which brings me to 2), they moved the bulk of their PHL ops down to a consolidated BWI. WN doesn't fly anywhere in the Northeast anymore. At one point, they flew to BOS, MHT, and PVD and I think one or two other markets. Right now, WN is actually bigger in PIT than they are in PHL in terms of destinations served...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3136 posts, RR: 4
Reply 57, posted (5 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 21674 times:

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 56):

Those routes aren't even daily and/or year-round, are they?

Nope. Yet its more than what we have now.



FLYi
User currently onlinesteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9182 posts, RR: 18
Reply 58, posted (5 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 21465 times:

Quoting PITrules (Reply 57):
Nope. Yet its more than what we have now.

I was actually referring to the PUJ and CUN flights from PIT, but yeah, CLE is picking up SEA and one or two other routes courtesy of LCCs coming in to fill part of the void UA will leave behind.

I actually cannot wait til 2018. PIT should really get interesting starting around then...!



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3136 posts, RR: 4
Reply 59, posted (5 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 21180 times:

Looks like someone finally put together a book about the early days of aviation in Pittsburgh. It seems to focus on military aviation, yet something like this is long overdue.


"Props and Jets: The Shifting Relationship Between the United States Air Corps and a Major Industrial City from 1925 to 1948


Merriam Press Aviation History. First Edition (2013). June 25, 1925, inauguration of Rodgers Field marked the beginning of Allegheny County Commissioners’ investment into commercial aviation. A modest acquisition of 40 acres that has with time evolved to the presence of the 1500 acre Pittsburgh International Airport across town. This book chronicles the dreams, successes, failures, promises, and fatalities in the intervening events from 1923 to the opening of the commercial terminal at the Greater Pittsburgh Airport (GRP) in 1952. Over time, Rodgers Field, the first field, could not be enlarged, expansion of Allegheny County Airport, the second field, proved too expensive, with GRP, the third field, finally large enough to fill the needs of the commercial and military needs. In the 1920s and 1930s the political leadership of Allegheny County struggled to craft the best aviation facility to attract military and commercial interests. Experience with the shortcomings of Rodgers Field provided guidance in the design of the Allegheny County Airport. During World War Two, Pittsburgh lay in the flight path of immense numbers of thirsty military aircraft being flown from one area of the United States to another. The breadth of the Greater Pittsburgh Airport provided the necessary space for runways and parking areas to accommodate the impressive traffic landing for refueling, maintenance and repair. In that time period, the media devoted most of their attention to the battle arenas, in foreign lands and on distant oceans. Conflicts won meant yet another step to victory when the United States service men and women could return home. But the success ‘over there’ was totally dependent upon the war production system ‘over here.’ In addition to the military history of Rodgers Field, this work details the worthy participation ‘over here’ of the two Allegheny County airfields. Contents: Rodgers Field: Pittsburgh’s First Municipal/Military Airport (Doomed From The Start); One Of The Best; Only A Presidential Intervention Could Save This Local Airman; ACA: A Push For Prominence In The Air; The 575th Of The Air Transport Command Begins At ACA; An Approaching Storm; Tora! Tora!; Conversion Of The Bell Farm Into A CAA National Defense Airport; Further Sources Of Delays In Construction Of The Moon Township Defense Air Field During 1943-1944; The 575th Begin Operations At The Greater Pittsburgh Airport; Luftwaffe Sorties Over Pittsburgh; Personal Recollections About The Army Air Base: Greater Pittsburgh Airport; Donuts; Heroes Past Always Present; Looking Back: It Never Happened; A New Mission In Response To An Iron Curtain: Soviet Threat Always a Dubious Ally; Auxiliary Reserve Training Sites; and six Appendices: Commanders of the 575th Base Unit, 6th Ferrying Station (ACA) and the 444th Base Unit, Reserve Training, Air Defense Command, Grp; Major and Minor Military Aircraft Accidents at Rodgers Field, ACA, GRP, or Nearby; Military Personnel Stationed at ACA and/or GRP at Some Time During the Time Span 1942-1950; Air Traffic Controllers at ACA During World War II; Members of the 324th Observation Squadron, 99th Division, US Army 3rd Air Corps, Rodgers Field, Aspinwall, Pa, and Allegheny County Airport; Aviation Mechanics at Rodgers Field in 1928; and Abbreviations; Index; 162 photos, illustrations, drawings, documents
"



FLYi
User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3136 posts, RR: 4
Reply 60, posted (5 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 20898 times:

Rare bird heads up:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BLS7912




FLYi
User currently offlineCush From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 61, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 20427 times:

I had a random thought and wanted feedback from some other loyal PIT fans...

I know we are lucky to have Delta offer PIT-CDG now that the subsidy is gone, but we always chat about what other carrier might start service.... The whole "What about London" or "What about Frankfurt"...

Well..... Why have we never been able to Icelandair? I have a friend that recently took a trip to Iceland and another friend that connected through Iceland further into Europe. My question was "Why?!?" and their response was "it was unbelievably cheap".

It makes sense... They are able to operate 757-200 aircraft and have a great Hub that isn't quite in Europe, but isn't quite in America.

Why doesn't Icelandair operate a 2-3x weekly flight to PIT to provide low fare flights to Iceland or points inside Europe?

Any thoughts? I mean, Icelandair already operates to cities like MSP, Orlando (Sanford), DEN, SEA, ANC, BOS, NYC, DC. Why not PIT? I mean, how can MSP or Orlando Sanford support a flight, yet we couldn't? also, with the increased flights recently to Edmonton, it only makes sense!



Fly me to the moon let me play among the stars.
User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3136 posts, RR: 4
Reply 62, posted (4 months 4 weeks ago) and read 20419 times:

"Consultant: Air service between Pittsburgh and NEPA would be profitable

"Resuming commercial air service between Wilkes-Barre/Scranton International Airport and Pittsburgh would probably be sustainable if an airline were willing to try it, aviation consultant Mead & Hunt found."

"The Sunday Times obtained a redacted version of the report through a Right to Know Law request.

"he three non (essential air service) markets that have significant local passenger traffic to PIT, Allentown, Harrisburg and Wilkes-Barre/Scranton are projected to be sustainable to PIT, especially when combined with the essential air service communities," the consultant's researchers said in the report"

"Mead & Hunt's researchers examined several scenarios involving an airline initiating service between Pittsburgh and 13 connecting airports throughout Pennsylvania, including Wilkes-Barre/Scranton.

In every scenario involving the Pittston Twp. airport, the consultants projected an airline would make money flying between the Steel City and Northeast Pennsylvania."

"Mead & Hunt also found several routes on which major airlines could lose substantial sums of money, including a possible $2.34 million loss on an unsubsidized route to Williamsport.

In that scenario, connecting to seven smaller airports would put an airline in the red $6.27 million even if flying to Northeast Pennsylvania were a profitable part of the venture.
"
http://thetimes-tribune.com/news/con...nepa-would-be-profitable-1.1643626

Seems like PIT-ABE/AVP/MDT would work as I've long suspected. They should shoot for those three plus the EAS cities then call it a day. All things considered that would be a huge addition to PIT. Serving all 13 PA communities is not going to happen.


"A consultant's report believes airline service between Pittsburgh International Airport and three cities in eastern Pennsylvania - Wilkes-Barre/Scranton, Allentown and Harrisburg could work financially."
http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburg...-to-scranton-harrisburg-could.html




Quoting Cush (Reply 61):
Well..... Why have we never been able to Icelandair? I have a friend that recently took a trip to Iceland and another friend that connected through Iceland further into Europe. My question was "Why?!?" and their response was "it was unbelievably cheap".

It makes sense... They are able to operate 757-200 aircraft and have a great Hub that isn't quite in Europe, but isn't quite in America.

Why doesn't Icelandair operate a 2-3x weekly flight to PIT to provide low fare flights to Iceland or points inside Europe?

Funny you should mention this. I sent some correspondence last week regarding the whole Emirates thing to some local higher-ups, and suggested Icelandair be a target.

- Boeing 737MAX they have on order would be perfect for PIT
- Stop overs in Iceland available on an itinerary to/from Europe
- Weak Icelandic currency makes it affordable
- Possible coordination with Apple Vacations, local travel agencies, and Icelandic tourism bureaus to promote the service (how many times can one go to CUN and PUJ?)
- Connections to 20+ onward destinations in Europe

http://www.icelandair.com/other_files/icelandair/com/routemap-aug2013.jpg

I could easily see seasonal summer service.

Quoting Cush (Reply 61):
Any thoughts? I mean, Icelandair already operates to cities like MSP, Orlando (Sanford), DEN, SEA, ANC, BOS, NYC, DC. Why not PIT? I mean, how can MSP or Orlando Sanford support a flight, yet we couldn't? also, with the increased flights recently to Edmonton, it only makes sense!


To be fair, MSP and ORL have much higher demand to Europe. But OTOH they already have much more service to Europe. Its something Allegheny County needs to pursue.



FLYi
User currently onlinesteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9182 posts, RR: 18
Reply 63, posted (4 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 20323 times:

Good luck pitching that PIT-ABE/AVP/MDT idea to the airlines. Will they want any part of that, knowing that they'll likely fill only a few B-1900s if that...? Didn't the one venture completely fall through? Forgive me for being cynical Johnny Raincloud here... Quite frankly, though, it would be nice to see CR7s or E70/75 equipment on there...

The Iceland Air idea seems intriguing...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlinedumbell2424 From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 914 posts, RR: 2
Reply 64, posted (4 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 20182 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Scheduled charters PIT-ACY in May

From PIT Facebook page:

http://www.facebook.com/PITairport/p...sts/10200622560486928?stream_ref=1

WPA's largest casino charter co - Preferred Casino Tours - is pleased to announce twice weekly nonstop charters to Atlantic City beginning in May. Weekly charters will depart PIT on Fridays and Mondays for exciting 3 and 4 day Shore getaways. Air and hotel packages will suit any need or budget and include Caesar’s, Bally’s and Showboat on the boardwalk and Harrah’s Resort on the bay. Contact Preferred Casino Tours: 1-800-842-7724, 2664 Brodhead Rd. Aliquippa PA 15001, junkets@preferredcasinotours.com. http://preferredcasinotours.com/pitt...tiple-dates-please-see-list-below/


User currently offlinetooluther From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 305 posts, RR: 1
Reply 65, posted (4 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 20149 times:

Quoting Oak522 (Reply 55):
Are we going to see AA move into B any time soon?

How many gates does the combined US/AA operation need in the morning? The most efficient this for the airport as a whole would be to actually do the opposite and move US into the old Northwest and Continental gates on D + the extra capacity that AA already has at the end of the concorse. That would allow the Airport Authority to mothball the B concourse.


User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3136 posts, RR: 4
Reply 66, posted (4 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 20096 times:

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 63):
Good luck pitching that PIT-ABE/AVP/MDT idea to the airlines. Will they want any part of that, knowing that they'll likely fill only a few B-1900s if that...?

A couple B-1900s (or smaller) operated by a second or third tier commuter or air-taxi is all that is needed for this. Its not like they pursuing mainline A320 or large regional jet service.

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 63):
Quite frankly, though, it would be nice to see CR7s or E70/75 equipment on there...

Now that would be an unrealistic pipe dream....



FLYi
User currently onlinesteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9182 posts, RR: 18
Reply 67, posted (4 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 20010 times:

Quoting tooluther (Reply 65):
The most efficient this for the airport as a whole would be to actually do the opposite and move US into the old Northwest and Continental gates on D + the extra capacity that AA already has at the end of the concorse. That would allow the Airport Authority to mothball the B concourse.

I always assumed they could move the entire operation over to B as well. I guess there was a lot of speculation about AA possibly wanting to expand PIT a little bit in the form of added frequencies and/or added destinations, but I guess that's not going to be the case.

At the same time, I don't exactly see DL beating down any doors for any added service. I guess AA and DL would be okay in the D concourse. That would be a good way to cut costs, possibly reducing the fees to more competitive levels until the airport debt is finally paid off...

Quoting PITrules (Reply 66):
A couple B-1900s (or smaller) operated by a second or third tier commuter or air-taxi is all that is needed for this. Its not like they pursuing mainline A320 or large regional jet service.

Right... so I guess that added statement about E70 service is a bit of a moronic thing for me to say...   



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineFlaps From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1261 posts, RR: 4
Reply 68, posted (4 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 20009 times:

D isn't big enough for the combined operations of AA/US and DL. AA's current ops can easily be handled via the existing US gates on B. If a concourse was to be closed off D would be the likely candidate. DL could probably fit on C with AA/US combined on B. Another DL option would be at the end of B if it were reopened. I really dont see DL having an interest in that option though. Their current location on D is pretty prime real estate. Nothing like deplaning on lower D and being out on the curb in ten minutes, Same thing in reverse when the TSA lines are longer than expected.

User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3136 posts, RR: 4
Reply 69, posted (4 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 19532 times:

911th safe through 2015
http://www.post-gazette.com/local/we...t-planes-safe/stories/201403060317


Thorn Run Rd interchange (near PIT's Airside Business Park and the 911th) to be rebuilt
http://www.timesonline.com/news/loca...6-c73b-56dd-a716-95fbcb12552a.html
Another glaring PennDOT design failure. This is a relatively new interchange (designed in the late 80s) and it was a poor design from day one. Now money needs to be wasted to fix it.


While Royal Dutch Shell has not officially announced their go-ahead of the petrochemical plant, they continue to buy land:
http://www.timesonline.com/news/ener...f42cd021.html#.Ux6Gna6ccko.twitter


Local resident on MH370:
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/mis...g-malaysia-airlines-missing-n48731



FLYi
User currently offlineflightsimer From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 541 posts, RR: 1
Reply 70, posted (4 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 19533 times:

Went through the interchange today. Always thought it was a stupid design. But 6.2mil to redo it seems pretty steep.


Commercial Pilot- SEL, MEL, Instrument
User currently offlineJetBlue1058 From United States of America, joined Mar 2013, 120 posts, RR: 1
Reply 71, posted (4 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 19266 times:

Looks like WN is ending PIT-FLL in October, Come on JetBlue! Start south florida service with 1X daily E190 service!!
There is demand there, and with the easy connections onward to the Caribbean and South America this service could do well.
I wander if we will see any other Ex FL markets like RSW get cut. We yinzers surely havent been helped by this merger, barley any new markets, and limited competition on most PIT-FL routes!



JetBlue E190 seats, 5D and 16A= no better place in the world
User currently offlineJetBlue1058 From United States of America, joined Mar 2013, 120 posts, RR: 1
Reply 72, posted (4 months 3 weeks ago) and read 19251 times:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/todayi...to-us-airways-strongholds/6313513/

Interesting article, if PIT airport can do anything right, try to get speedbird service here! They clearly want to expand into more markets here, other than just the clear leader here (CLT)



JetBlue E190 seats, 5D and 16A= no better place in the world
User currently offlinetarmacphotos From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 382 posts, RR: 2
Reply 73, posted (4 months 3 weeks ago) and read 19200 times:

Quoting JetBlue1058 (Reply 72):
Interesting article, if PIT airport can do anything right, try to get speedbird service here! They clearly want to expand into more markets here, other than just the clear leader here (CLT)

This would work here I think. No one from here wants to go through PHL or JFK to get over the pond.

Quoting JetBlue1058 (Reply 71):
Looks like WN is ending PIT-FLL in October,

So what daily service will we still have to Florida from here besides MIA on AA?


User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3136 posts, RR: 4
Reply 74, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 19150 times:

Quoting JetBlue1058 (Reply 71):
Looks like WN is ending PIT-FLL in October, Come on JetBlue! Start south florida service with 1X daily E190 service!!
There is demand there, and with the easy connections onward to the Caribbean and South America this service could do well.
I wander if we will see any other Ex FL markets like RSW get cut. We yinzers surely havent been helped by this merger, barley any new markets, and limited competition on most PIT-FL routes!

We certainly haven't been helped by that merger. I really miss USA3000 and AirTran. Like I said in the other thread this is a victory for Spirit at LBE. Considering how childish the ACAA was on their Facebook page recently when they touted the only nonstop service to Dallas will soon be from PIT (re Spirit pulling LBE-DFW), I hope LBE returns the favor by promoting they will have the only nonstop service from Pittsburgh to FLL.

In fact, I can now see Spirit doing LBE-FLL 10x weekly or even 2x daily.

444 PDEW between PIT and southest Florida and only two AA 50 seaters in the market.





This is a great synopsis of the energy industry scene in Pittsburgh and why it means so much more to the local economy and hopes for improved air service than simply a bunch of drilling rigs:

"It's a unique opportunity for the region, putting Pittsburgh atop the Appalachian energy industry's supply chain, economic experts said. Rigs move and field offices close when the rigs go, but the corporate presence taking root in Pittsburgh is a constant that can withstand the whims of a boom-and-bust industry, they said.

The drilling companies draw pipeline companies such as Williams and MarkWest, and service companies such as Halliburton. Law firms and engineering and environmental consultants follow. Clustering in Pittsburgh offers them access to finance, skilled workers and culture, centrally located between drilling hot spots in Pennsylvania, West Virginia and eastern Ohio, experts said.

Pittsburgh is the place that has all of that at once, said Kurt Rankin, an economist with PNC Financial Services Group. Any firm that has hopes of being part of the natural gas revolution in the United States, and in particular focused on the Marcellus shale, is going to want to be a regional presence (here), with people on the ground who understand the marketplace in Pittsburgh.
"
http://triblive.com/business/headlin...-companies-marcellus#axzz2viOw0VTI



FLYi
User currently offlinejbrusnak From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 18 posts, RR: 0
Reply 75, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 19157 times:

I'd love to see AS open up SEA-PIT. As a Pittsburgh native who moved to Seattle and works in the tech industry the lack of a direct flight has been madness for me. Used to fly on US monthly back and forth and then at least every 2-3 months to visit family. Back in the day there were 2-3 direct flights a day and they were usually pretty well full. There was even a red eye that I used frequently.

For the last eight or so years it's been terrible. You turn what was a 5 hour flight into a 12 hour fiasco because you've got to connect and usually end up with a decent layover. You either fly way out of your way to some place like DFW or ATL and have a longer on time trip or you roll the dice and try to connect through DTW or ORD and end up with winter snow delays and summer thunderstorms.

Sure do miss the direct flights...I really was surprised that no one else picked it up.


User currently offlinencflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 476 posts, RR: 1
Reply 76, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 19156 times:

Hello Pittsurgh-ians.

Me thinks that you might see some traffic start to bleed to CLE with some of the Frontier Expansion and their ultra low fares. I'm tired of making the drive down the turnpike for lower fares out of PIT, your turn. . . . seems like it goes back and forth every 5 or 10 years. CLE first had the WN effect. Then the UA hub put the headlock on airfares in CLE. Now Frontier, to expand instantly in CLE tells me they've got bigger plans once they have more aircraft (and it's coming).


User currently onlinesteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9182 posts, RR: 18
Reply 77, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 19139 times:

Quoting PITrules (Reply 74):
444 PDEW between PIT and southest Florida and only two AA 50 seaters in the market.

To have that kind of service with that kind of demand is flat out insulting to the Pittsburgh-to-South Florida market! I've flown on an ERJ-145 (EWR-JAX on UA), and I will go out of my way to NEVER do that again! I think packaging myself in a box and getting shipped by FedEX would have been a more comfortable experience!

Also, isn't it funny how the greater Pittsburgh region is growing yet PIT traffic keeps dropping off...?

Furthermore, I generally like mergers, we generally did ok with DL and UA (it has yet to be seen how we'll fare with AA/US), but the WN buyout of FL has really hurt PIT. FL was steadily adding destinations and frequencies, and they were experiencing rapid growth in terms of passengers flown year-over-year. Then WN came along and became a kill joy; not just in terms of them undoing what FL did, but also by removing competition to PHL allowing US to re-stagnate the market with their $600 r/t fares...

WN isn't that cheap anymore. In fact, they kinda suck.



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlinetarmacphotos From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 382 posts, RR: 2
Reply 78, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 19094 times:

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 77):
To have that kind of service with that kind of demand is flat out insulting to the Pittsburgh-to-South Florida market!

I hope AA upgauges the PIT-MIA route to at least an E170 now.


User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 79, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 19070 times:

Quoting JetBlue1058 (Reply 71):
Looks like WN is ending PIT-FLL in October,
WN is also ending PHL-FLL then. However, September and October is the slow season to FLL, probably because kids are in school, weather isn't that cold to escape, and it's atypical to take vacations then.

Post Thanksgiving is different. However, if B6 or another LCC added FLL routes say in October, I am not sure WN would resume it.

[Edited 2014-03-12 21:03:11]

User currently offlineJetBlue1058 From United States of America, joined Mar 2013, 120 posts, RR: 1
Reply 80, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 19039 times:

Actually, service ends Augest 9th so this isn't a slow time they are cutting in. I guess they new more aircraft for DCA and this route wasn't perfoming well enough to keep the aircraft when more money could be made elsewhere.
It is a minor win for me as it slightly increases the chance of more JetBlue service!!



JetBlue E190 seats, 5D and 16A= no better place in the world
User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3136 posts, RR: 4
Reply 81, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 19037 times:

Quoting ncflyer (Reply 76):
Me thinks that you might see some traffic start to bleed to CLE with some of the Frontier Expansion and their ultra low fares. I'm tired of making the drive down the turnpike for lower fares out of PIT, your turn. . . . seems like it goes back and forth every 5 or 10 years.

Well CLE benefited from the local PIT market bleeding to CLE for many many years during the US hub days... some estimates in the hundreds of thousands annually. The CLE market making the drive to PIT is a relatively new thing (for a few years); but I agree if Frontier keeps up the pace of expansion at CLE with those fares then yes the tide will once again turn and we will see Pittsburghers make the drive. However I doubt those introductory F9 fares at CLE are sustainable, and I doubt some of these opportunistic additions by F9 and DL at CLE will stay long term, and I doubt United will stay at 20 destinations either - that will most likely be cut back to hubs only plus BOS/LGA/DCA.

Once things stabilize at CLE in a couple years I think who drives to where will depend on the specific market being flown to, and the net sum of leakage between the two will be close to zero. Unless either CLE or PIT lands an STL WN sized low cost operation.



FLYi
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5373 posts, RR: 7
Reply 82, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 19017 times:

Quoting PITrules (Reply 81):
Unless either CLE or PIT lands an STL WN sized low cost operation.

I think Frontier is very serious about its CLE investment. Their system really needs a counterweight to DEN to operate more efficiently. Once the initial CLE startup is over, lack of near-term aircraft delivery will keep their pace of expansion slow; but I'm pretty sure their present plan is to grow CLE. They might just as easily have tried to do it in PIT or CVG, but UA handed them CLE on a platter - just when the new owners of needed it.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3136 posts, RR: 4
Reply 83, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 18998 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 82):
I think Frontier is very serious about its CLE investment.

I have no doubt that is the case.

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 82):
Their system really needs a counterweight to DEN to operate more efficiently.

I never understood this rationale. Often we heard "JetBlue needs a midwest hub", or "Should Alaska have a hub in the east?", etc etc when that obviously has proven not to be the case. Frontier having a hub in CLE for the sake of making their route map look symmetrical makes zero sense to me.

Now if NE OH supports that growth on a continued basis, then great. But I have a feeling that there will be a happy medium between some of these (and near future) 'opportunistic' routes and what the CLE market will support. At the end of the day CLE will be better off than they were with a token United hub which did nothing but suppress the local market.



FLYi
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5373 posts, RR: 7
Reply 84, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 18990 times:

Quoting PITrules (Reply 83):
I never understood this rationale. Often we heard "JetBlue needs a midwest hub", or "Should Alaska have a hub in the east?", etc etc when that obviously has proven not to be the case. Frontier having a hub in CLE for the sake of making their route map look symmetrical makes zero sense to me.

It's not for looks, it's for spoke utilization. F9, for example, has lots of cities with three or four flights only to DEN. It's hard to bank departures at a single hub when some out-and-back spokes are 600 miles away and others are 1600. If, however, there is a second destination, the plane can spend less time on the ground going to the second city and return (maybe not the same plane) in time to fly back to the first hub. The spoke city can spread fixed costs over a larger number of departures and planes can spend less time on the ground than they would if they had to wait for a single hub's bank time.

In F9's case an easterly focus city like CLE can increase their flying hours and reduce their unit costs, which is exactly their announced goal. I doubt they had CLE in mind when they announced it (they have also added some nice routes from STL), but things worked out thanks to UA.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently onlinesteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9182 posts, RR: 18
Reply 85, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 18821 times:

So, I guess we could see some LCC investment in CLE. Anyone see this potentially hinder PIT's chances at being a focus city again? Granted, AA will have a small one by default courtesy of the merger with US, but how sustainable will it be long term?


Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineCush From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 86, posted (4 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 18722 times:

I enjoyed the article someone posted on British Airways and their new service to the US (Austin) and potential new service to cities such as Hartford or Pittsburgh.

In my honest opinion.... Do I ever see PIT reclaiming the old glory days of a non-stop bustling terminal of passengers, planes and life? No. Not unless a new startup like the proposed "People Express" or another airline started and really took off.

However, I do see something new for the future. As we ALL know, the aviation industry is always changing. Airlines are coming and going. New aircraft are coming off the line and old planes being turned into pop cans.

I see the future of PIT as bright, as I could see us as a potential "Feeder Hub" in the future. How far ahead is dependent on the 787 and A350.

When I say Feeder Hub, I don't mean just a strong hold of 1 airline feeding into their flights, but a place where many airlines feed into a larger international flight.

For example... There are new A380 aircraft coming off the line each month, and while they may be filled in the busy months, in the off season, they are flying pretty empty.... Here is an example for Lufthansa. Load up a Lufthansa A380 full of passengers, and instead of fighting the delays, weather, and congestion of NYC, have it fly to PIT. From PIT the passengers can connect to various cities using our wide array of other airlines that feed to large cities and small cities alike. On the other hand, if you need to fly to NYC, you could catch the nonstop LH flight from say FRA-JFK or EWR. This way, the airline could conveniently price itself so the larger aircraft with a lot of feeder traffic would fly to PIT, and the direct flight to NYC. It would be the same way around for other airlines flying to PIT, and in turn, connect on the large plane for the trip across the pond.

Any thoughts to an idea like this? Could anyone see ACAA revamp the entire C Concourse to fit maybe 2 A380 aircraft at the far end, and then 2-3 A330/340 aircraft down the rest of the concourse?

I could see it happening one day.... We just need people with vision and determination! PIT is such an underrated airport! We make connecting fights a breeze, have great food, some shopping, decent weather, and rarely have ATC delays. When I think of somewhere like EWR, I think nightmares connecting, long delays and lines, nothing to do, bad weather, and delays upon delays.



Fly me to the moon let me play among the stars.
User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 87, posted (4 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 18714 times:

Quoting JetBlue1058 (Reply 80):

Actually, service ends Augest 9th so this isn't a slow time they are cutting in. I guess they new more aircraft for DCA and this route wasn't perfoming well enough to keep the aircraft when more money could be made elsewhere.
It is a minor win for me as it slightly increases the chance of more JetBlue service!!

That's true. Along with PHL and PIT, WN is ending RDU-FLL. But B6 which competes directly against WN there, is sticking on RDU-FLL in September and October with daily service. I think in prior years, B6 scaled down to less than daily on RDU-FLL during the low time.

WN is sticking in on PVD-FLL and BDL-FLL not conceding them yet to B6.

RDU maybe a fortunate to have B6 running RDU-FLL as B6 hasn't been expanding FLL domestic lately and that route doesn't seem like a route it would have added more recently.

It's priorities seem more on BOS business routes, DCA focus expansion, BOS-NYC corridor, leisure cities for both BOS and JFK (e.g. CHS), and SJU and international involving FLL and/or BOS, NYC, DCA or SJU.

I'm sure ORD-FLL will be the first one getting priority if that changes and FLL domestic expansion starts, but hopefully after that, the other markets.

[Edited 2014-03-13 18:21:52]

User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 88, posted (4 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 18696 times:

Quoting PITrules (Reply 81):
but I agree if Frontier keeps up the pace of expansion at CLE with those fares then yes the tide will once again turn and we will see Pittsburghers make the drive

What was F9's history at PIT besides the PIT-MKE debacle from a couple of years ago? Would PIT remember F9 in that light or would it be different with possible support?

I think TTN-PIT is sorely needed. I've supported TTN-CLE just to get to PIT. I don't know how to convince Shurz on PIT directly. From TTN's location, drive the "driveable" route by himself only, leaving after 4pm on a busy day.

As US prices a one-way at $288 for an advance ticket, it's too expensive for most. For those not able to fly US or drive, bus and train service is there, but it's long. Greyhound has uncomfortable seats and has the Greyhound crowd. The MegaBus route stops at Harrisburg and then weaves through State College now and it originates at 30th St./Philly which is fine for residents of Philly proper but inconvenient for many from NJ. It's an additional 40 mins to 1 hour from the NJ side to reach the typical starting point that one assumes is Philly to Pittsburgh. After having no other choice and bad drives, I believe PIT to PHL is well past the comfortable driving distance. MDT to PIT isn't comfortable driving let alone thinking PHL/TTN to PIT is comfortable driving.

If it was all straight non curvy three lane each side roads, then it's another story but that doesn't even make half of what the drive is in reality.

If F9 opens new stations and PIT is one of them with PIT-TTN, I could see F9 adding more PIT service after that launch, and PIT pax using F9 not necessarily needing to head to CLE. I think Florida with MCO, going up against WN head on, FLL might be realistic.

One interesting route would be PIT-MDW even if limited to 3-4x weekly. The route is otherwise pretty high fare compared to longer routes from the east coast to Chicago that have another LCC on it as well. I've seen WN's low fare calendar with $123 WGAs on BOS-MDW (B6 and sometimes NK competes) but PIT-MDW priced $50 more and less than half the distance.

MegaBus does service Cleveland to Chicago but not Pittsburgh to Chicago. PIT to Chicago is long enough that it's past the comfortable driving distance as well. Although F9 doesn't want to do thrus, PIT and CLE would be ideal stations from TTN and ILG and maybe other east coast stations (like ACY or MYR) for thru flights. Regarding So. Carolina presence, I think F9 either opens MYR or CHS (or maybe GSP if WN closes there which is being speculated on WN threads), but I'm guessing it will be MYR first.

The economies of scale to open up MYR and have flights in/out for it, increases with TTN and CLE stations and possibly a PIT one.

[Edited 2014-03-13 19:15:30]

User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3136 posts, RR: 4
Reply 89, posted (4 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 18628 times:

Regarding the USA today article:

"Intriguing possibilities on such a list -- but not ones specifically mentioned by Walsh -- could include Pittsburgh or Hartford, two mid-size markets known to be eager to land new trans-Atlantic routes."

That's a lot of qualifiers in there, and that statement was made by a journalist, not an airline official. Now if Willie Walsh made that statement I would be much more ecxited.

Having said that, I have no doubt PIT would be near the top of the list of potential new BA cities.

Quoting Cush (Reply 86):
When I say Feeder Hub, I don't mean just a strong hold of 1 airline feeding into their flights, but a place where many airlines feed into a larger international flight.

For example... There are new A380 aircraft coming off the line each month, and while they may be filled in the busy months, in the off season, they are flying pretty empty.... Here is an example for Lufthansa. Load up a Lufthansa A380 full of passengers, and instead of fighting the delays, weather, and congestion of NYC, have it fly to PIT. From PIT the passengers can connect to various cities using our wide array of other airlines that feed to large cities and small cities alike. On the other hand, if you need to fly to NYC, you could catch the nonstop LH flight from say FRA-JFK or EWR. This way, the airline could conveniently price itself so the larger aircraft with a lot of feeder traffic would fly to PIT, and the direct flight to NYC. It would be the same way around for other airlines flying to PIT, and in turn, connect on the large plane for the trip across the pond.

Any thoughts to an idea like this? Could anyone see ACAA revamp the entire C Concourse to fit maybe 2 A380 aircraft at the far end, and then 2-3 A330/340 aircraft down the rest of the concourse?

I could see it happening one day.... We just need people with vision and determination! PIT is such an underrated airport!

Isn't this what a network hub is for?

I agree PIT has a potentially bright future, but that is based on the continued economic growth of the region - the only truly rust belt city to make the turn to recovery - not some misconceived notion that PIT will draw traffic away from the O&D powerhouses just because they are congested. The ACAA's "CASE" program is totally flawed and whoever came up with that at the ACAA has no idea of the realities of the industry.

They need to be pragmatic. There are plenty of totally realistic issues they can pursue to vastly improve the air service at PIT. A BA 787 or AA 757 to LHR is one of them. Year round and/or daily summertime DL to CDG is another. PeoplExpress is yet another. They have already identified PIT as their primary operations base, and as we know O&D here is being suppressed once again by a significant amount since 2007.

Having LH A-380s come in simply is not realistic. They didn't even do that with an A330 when PIT was a Star Alliance hub.

Solely interlining between carriers is from the 1980s and would not really apply to global airlines flying A380s to PIT for that purpose. The best interlining will do for us is to make Vee Neal Aviation or some other 135 operation take a chance at the PIT connecter project from PIT-AVP/ABE/MDT and a few others.

THAT'S the kind of thing they need to focus on.

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 88):
What was F9's history at PIT besides the PIT-MKE debacle from a couple of years ago?
F9 has served PIT-PUJ/CUN on a scheduled seasonal basis for a few years now.

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 88):
Would PIT remember F9 in that light or would it be different with possible support?

Considering I had to inform the ACAA that Frontier was an airline providing actual scheduled service from PIT to those places, not just for Apple Vacations charters which is what they assumed on their website and FB page. I wouldn't get my hopes up high. They are too busy chasing Emirates A380s instead of the obviously attainable stuff. At least in the public eye.

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 88):

I think TTN-PIT is sorely needed

Agreed.

[Edited 2014-03-13 22:13:54]


FLYi
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5373 posts, RR: 7
Reply 90, posted (4 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 18524 times:

Quoting PITrules (Reply 89):
Considering I had to inform the ACAA that Frontier was an airline providing actual scheduled service from PIT to those places, not just for Apple Vacations charters which is what they assumed on their website and FB page.

Ouch! Not exactly confidence inspiring.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently onlinesteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9182 posts, RR: 18
Reply 91, posted (4 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 18372 times:

Quoting PITrules (Reply 89):
They didn't even do that with an A330 when PIT was a Star Alliance hub.

When did US even join the Star Alliance? I seem to remember them joining in 2004, after they announced that PIT was to be dehubbed...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3136 posts, RR: 4
Reply 92, posted (4 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 18345 times:

"Penrod out as Allegheny County Airport Authority chief"
Bradley Penrod was ousted Friday as president of the Allegheny County Airport Authority in an abrupt move by its board of directors in executive session.
http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburg...ty-airport-authority.html?page=all

http://triblive.com/news/adminpage/5...ard-authority-penrod#axzz2vryvVtEd

No surprises there.

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 90):
Ouch! Not exactly confidence inspiring.

I know, right?! They also continued to say that Delta would be starting PIT-CUN long after we knew that would not be the case, and were late to know WN would be resuming Saturday service to PBI this year.

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 91):
When did US even join the Star Alliance? I seem to remember them joining in 2004, after they announced that PIT was to be dehubbed...

2004 sounds right, the gate leases were not renewed by the deadline in early 2005 in which PIT then started the course of becoming a focus city.

LH considered PIT in 2004, and was previously on a short list for service with CLT and MCO
http://old.post-gazette.com/pg/04267/383838.stm

[Edited 2014-03-14 14:43:49]


FLYi
User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 93, posted (4 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 18338 times:

Quoting PITrules (Reply 89):
F9 has served PIT-PUJ/CUN on a scheduled seasonal basis for a few years now.

Well besides PIT-MKE, what was F9's domestic route history at PIT? Not that it matters for future possibilities much, but just curious if there was a PIT-DEN from them, or some other route, at one point.


User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3136 posts, RR: 4
Reply 94, posted (4 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 18320 times:

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 93):
Well besides PIT-MKE, what was F9's domestic route history at PIT? Not that it matters for future possibilities much, but just curious if there was a PIT-DEN from them, or some other route, at one point.

Nothing else other than PUJ/CUN. ACY charters (from LBE too), but that was when they were owned by Republic. MKE was inherited from Midwest Express and dropped. It was subsequently restarted, but that only lasted a few weeks.

[Edited 2014-03-14 15:36:50]


FLYi
User currently onlinesteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9182 posts, RR: 18
Reply 95, posted (4 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 18280 times:

Quoting PITrules (Reply 92):
LH considered PIT in 2004, and was previously on a short list for service with CLT and MCO
http://old.post-gazette.com/pg/04267/383838.stm

And was it after that when LH said FRA-PIT was not feasible? Or did they declare that when they chose CLT in March of that year?



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineCush From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 96, posted (4 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 18188 times:

Quoting PITrules (Reply 92):
"Penrod out as Allegheny County Airport Authority chief"
Bradley Penrod was ousted Friday as president of the Allegheny County Airport Authority in an abrupt move by its board of directors in executive session.
http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburg...ty-airport-authority.html?page=all

http://triblive.com/news/adminpage/5...vVtEd

This was rather surprising to read. I know Brad and he is a good guy. I feel bad for him and hope he can find gainful employment soon!

To be honest, he was dealt a bad hand. Kent George is the reason for so many of our beloved problems at PIT. While Kent was busy jetsetting around the world in First Class at the tax payer expense, the airport was slowly falling apart little by little. Brad tried the best he could with what he was given, but in all honesty, what more could he have done?

Lets think about it... We already have service from pretty much every airline in the USA (with the exception of Virgin America), and we have nonstop service to Europe. Yes, it isn't widebody service daily to LGW/CDG/FRA, but, 1 flight to CDG is better than none. I am glad we have that.

Anyways, best wishes to Brad and all the best! I am curious to see who they appoint that will "magically" turn the airport around. I highly doubt anyone can do a better job than Brad, unless somehow PeopleExpress decides to start operations and is a success.

Good luck again!! =)



Fly me to the moon let me play among the stars.
User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3136 posts, RR: 4
Reply 97, posted (4 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 18178 times:

Quoting Cush (Reply 96):
To be honest, he was dealt a bad hand. Kent George is the reason for so many of our beloved problems at PIT. While Kent was busy jetsetting around the world in First Class at the tax payer expense, the airport was slowly falling apart little by little. Brad tried the best he could with what he was given, but in all honesty, what more could he have done?

I agree totally. While I'm not surprised to see Penrod let go (it was made known a year ago he would be replaced), the airport's problems are not of his doing. Any airport exec will have their hands tied when the airport's affairs are interfered with by his boss, the County Exec - such as the attempt to divert natural gas revenue away from the airport by both Fitzgerald and Onorato. Whoever replaces him will not be able to snap their fingers and make PIT thrive instantly. It will be a long slow process.

[Edited 2014-03-14 21:18:23]


FLYi
User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3136 posts, RR: 4
Reply 98, posted (4 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 18022 times:

A couple charters enroute from PVR

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BSK633

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BSK631

Sure would be nice to see these more often; one would think Pittsburghers only think CUN and PUJ exist.



FLYi
User currently offlineatct From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2275 posts, RR: 38
Reply 99, posted (4 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 17883 times:

Quoting Cush (Reply 96):
he is a good guy.

This is business, not high school. If you run a business that is losing money, you need to change, not matter how "nice" it is.



"The way to get started is to quit talking and begin doing." - Walt Disney
User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3136 posts, RR: 4
Reply 100, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 17594 times:

Rare bird (Atlas Air 767) heads up:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/GTI8614



FLYi
User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3136 posts, RR: 4
Reply 101, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 17512 times:

"Pittsburgh International Airport pins hope on next CEO"
http://www.post-gazette.com/local/re...e-on-next-CEO/stories/201403180133




Today's earlier 762, owned by MLW Air, operated by Atlas Air:

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/DSCN1777.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/DSCN1784.jpg



FLYi
User currently onlineAaronPGH From United States of America, joined Nov 2013, 8 posts, RR: 0
Reply 102, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 17477 times:

Thought you guys would get a kick out of this post. Funny shit:

August Wilson PIT PAT Fitz Frack MultiMode Node:
http://vannevar.blogspot.com/2014/03...ust-wilson-pit-pat-fitz-frack.html


User currently onlinesteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9182 posts, RR: 18
Reply 103, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 17386 times:

Quoting AaronPGH (Reply 102):
Thought you guys would get a kick out of this post. Funny shit:

August Wilson PIT PAT Fitz Frack MultiMode Node:
http://vannevar.blogspot.com/2014/03...ust-wilson-pit-pat-fitz-frack.html

Good post! Which one (or ones) of our elected officials would be certifiably insane enough to pursue something like this?



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlinekrod031 From United States of America, joined Dec 2013, 34 posts, RR: 0
Reply 104, posted (4 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 16797 times:

http://www.worldairportawards.com/Aw...stregionalairport_northamerica.htm

PIT Was voted #10 in Best Regional Airport in North America by SkyTrax.


User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3136 posts, RR: 4
Reply 105, posted (4 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 16765 times:

Quoting krod031 (Reply 104):
http://www.worldairportawards.com/Aw...stregionalairport_northamerica.htm

PIT Was voted #10 in Best Regional Airport in North America by SkyTrax.

Nothing too exciting considering we were ranked lower than PHL....



FLYi
User currently offlinetarmacphotos From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 382 posts, RR: 2
Reply 106, posted (4 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 16669 times:

How is PHL on any "best of" list?

User currently offlinekrod031 From United States of America, joined Dec 2013, 34 posts, RR: 0
Reply 107, posted (4 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 16583 times:

Quoting PITrules (Reply 105):
Nothing too exciting considering we were ranked lower than PHL....

Lol. True, however it could be worse... Not ranked at all.


User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3136 posts, RR: 4
Reply 108, posted (4 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 16557 times:

"FAA finds 'no significant impact' with Consol gas drilling plan near Pittsburgh International Airport"
http://powersource.post-gazette.com/...ional-Airport/stories/201403270298



FLYi
User currently onlinesteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9182 posts, RR: 18
Reply 109, posted (4 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 16531 times:

Quoting PITrules (Reply 108):
"FAA finds 'no significant impact' with Consol gas drilling plan near Pittsburgh International Airport"
http://powersource.post-gazette.com/...ional-Airport/stories/201403270298

With that infusion of cash, they still should eliminate those landing fees and even decrease the cost to lease gate space. CLE is about to become a F9 hot spot that could potentially siphon travelers away. Does the ACAA really want that, or are they going to continue lining their pockets with the cash that really needs to go back into the airport?

Here's an interesting article pertaining to Pittsburgh and the entire region, especially in terms of travel...
http://www.post-gazette.com/local/so...orks-together/stories/201403270003

So PIT can focus on luring folks to the city-proper and its northern and western countryside, while LBE could concentrate mainly on the Laurel Highlands and Allegheny Mountains of Westmoreland, Fayette and Somerset Counties...

By the rest of the article, it would suggest that the whole region is attracting more and more tourists. I guess some of the decrease in PIT traffic is due to the growth of LBE, but I guess it's also due to most of the people driving into the region...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5373 posts, RR: 7
Reply 110, posted (4 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 16542 times:

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 109):
CLE is about to become a F9 hot spot that could potentially siphon travelers away.

I think PIT has enough low-fare presence that the lure of F9 in CLE will be diminished. You might drive that distance to escape hub monopoly-level fares, but PIT is lucky not to have those fares any more.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently onlinesteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9182 posts, RR: 18
Reply 111, posted (4 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 16462 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 110):
I think PIT has enough low-fare presence that the lure of F9 in CLE will be diminished. You might drive that distance to escape hub monopoly-level fares, but PIT is lucky not to have those fares any more.

Fair enough. Besides SEA, what other destinations are served (or are about to be served) non-stop from CLE? I guess that's probably what will make the most people drive there.



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5373 posts, RR: 7
Reply 112, posted (4 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 16420 times:

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 111):
Besides SEA, what other destinations are served (or are about to be served) non-stop from CLE?

By mid-June Frontier will operate CLE non-stops to Atlanta, Cancun, Denver, Ft. Lauderdale, Ft Myers, Orlando, Phoenix, Punta Cana, Raleigh/Durham, Seattle, Tampa, and Trenton.

It won't be a businessman's schedule, but the fares should be low enough to fill the planes. Plus it's a nice morale boost after United's sucker punch.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently onlinesteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9182 posts, RR: 18
Reply 113, posted (4 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 16327 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 112):
By mid-June Frontier will operate CLE non-stops to Atlanta, Cancun, Denver, Ft. Lauderdale, Ft Myers, Orlando, Phoenix, Punta Cana, Raleigh/Durham, Seattle, Tampa, and Trenton.

I was actually wondering which cities would be served non-stop from CLE that are not (or will no longer be) offered from PIT, period. However, I can see I didn't word my question that way. So, oops on my part...

In any event, that's quite a list of destinations from CLE just for F9. I believe WN is going to cut Ft Lauderdale pretty soon, so that will be another destination no longer served by anyone. Who the hell in their right mind will want to subject themselves to 2.5 hours of airborn solitary confinement in an AA E45? I wonder if CLE-TTN will have an impact on PIT-PHL travelers...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5373 posts, RR: 7
Reply 114, posted (4 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 16298 times:

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 113):
I wonder if CLE-TTN will have an impact on PIT-PHL travelers...

If a PIT traveler has to drive 1 1/2 hours to CLE and then another 1 hour at the TTN end, then add in the airport hassle factor, won't it be easier just to drive all the way? I'm afraid that's the fate of many short-haul routes: car or the cheap bus lines.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently onlinesteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9182 posts, RR: 18
Reply 115, posted (4 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 16176 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 114):
If a PIT traveler has to drive 1 1/2 hours to CLE and then another 1 hour at the TTN end, then add in the airport hassle factor, won't it be easier just to drive all the way? I'm afraid that's the fate of many short-haul routes: car or the cheap bus lines.

I figured as much, unless there are those who live northwest of the city (New Castle, Youngstown vicinity) who are ultimately traveling to New Jersey...

I guess it's driving for me. I did the bus twice and it sucks...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3136 posts, RR: 4
Reply 116, posted (4 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 16065 times:

April marks the last month of service to CLE. While the need for air service to CLE is minimal if not zero now that CLE is dehubbed, I think it deserves mention that this will be the first time in 87 years (!!!) the two cities will not be connected by air. Quite a run; once served by United DC-10s and as late as the late eighties served by Continental 727s.

So from a historical perspective it will be a sad day when that last Dash 8 pulls away from the gate. It was April 1927 when Clifford Ball departed Pittsburgh for Cleveland using the very Waco now hanging in the landside terminal. The 'Clifford Ball Airline' was one of the forerunners to today's United.




FLYi
User currently onlinesteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9182 posts, RR: 18
Reply 117, posted (4 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 15943 times:

Quoting PITrules (Reply 116):
April marks the last month of service to CLE. While the need for air service to CLE is minimal if not zero now that CLE is dehubbed, I think it deserves mention that this will be the first time in 87 years (!!!) the two cities will not be connected by air. Quite a run; once served by United DC-10s and as late as the late eighties served by Continental 727s.

I also believe CO flew DC9s between PIT and CLE. One of my first memories of Greater Pitt was seeing my grandparents about to take off for PHX c1988 or 1989. I remember them boarding a DC9 and watching it push back as I stood in the upper lot looking over at the west concourse. I remember my grandmother telling me about how they took that flight to Ohio and eventually connected to a 737 that took them to PHX.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 116):
So from a historical perspective it will be a sad day when that last Dash 8 pulls away from the gate. It was April 1927 when Clifford Ball departed Pittsburgh for Cleveland using the very Waco now hanging in the landside terminal. The 'Clifford Ball Airline' was one of the forerunners to today's United.

Thanks for the history. I never thought there was that deal of significance associated with that airplane. Next month, its significance will increase...

I really do hope these two cities can orchestrate some kind of municipal partnership; work together to encourage growth and development, hopefully generating some travel demand between the two cities. Right now, with the drive of only 90 minutes, why the heck not drive? I do wish there was a better rail connection between the two, though. Of course, this connection would have to have a huge advantage over driving (i.e. high speed rail getting you from downtown Pittsburgh to Downtown Cleveland in under 60 minutes...)



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineCush From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 118, posted (4 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 15864 times:

I would like to point something out that I noticed online the other day...

A friend from Erie asked me to help find the cheapest flights for an exact period of dates. (3 different locations)

I searched all the surrounding airports:
- ERI
- CLE
- PIT
- BUF
- CMH
- CAK

The cheapest flight (by a decent margin) was PIT for each of the three cities. I was shocked! Congrats to PIT for having the cheapest airfare for the multi-state region.

On a side note: I miss the days when USAir ran a 737 multiple times a day from PIT-ERI. lol.



Fly me to the moon let me play among the stars.
User currently offlinekubus From Poland, joined Dec 2005, 181 posts, RR: 1
Reply 119, posted (4 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 15783 times:

Anyone know why there was a A320/19 in America West colors at the US maintenance? I thought all were already in US paint, and I did not see any being stored. This was about 2 weeks ago.

User currently offlinelakeeffect From United States of America, joined Mar 2014, 67 posts, RR: 0
Reply 120, posted (4 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 15751 times:

Quoting PITrules (Reply 116):

April marks the last month of service to CLE. While the need for air service to CLE is minimal if not zero now that CLE is dehubbed, I think it deserves mention that this will be the first time in 87 years (!!!) the two cities will not be connected by air. Quite a run; once served by United DC-10s and as late as the late eighties served by Continental 727s.

So from a historical perspective it will be a sad day when that last Dash 8 pulls away from the gate. It was April 1927 when Clifford Ball departed Pittsburgh for Cleveland using the very Waco now hanging in the landside terminal. The 'Clifford Ball Airline' was one of the forerunners to today's United.

While there won't be passengers disembarking between CLE and PIT; technically, the two cities will still be connected via F9's CLE-PIT-PUJ routing and CLE-PIT-CUN routing.

F9 flight numbers 23 and 24 leave CLE at 7:20am and arrives at PIT at 8:00am, it then departs PIT at 8:50am for CUN or PUJ.


User currently offlinelakeeffect From United States of America, joined Mar 2014, 67 posts, RR: 0
Reply 121, posted (4 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 15696 times:

Quoting kubus (Reply 119):
Anyone know why there was a A320/19 in America West colors at the US maintenance? I thought all were already in US paint, and I did not see any being stored. This was about 2 weeks ago.

That was likely N838AW ... it's one of those "heritage livery" which tries to mimic a previous livery of airlines related to US Airways history.


User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3136 posts, RR: 4
Reply 122, posted (4 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 15683 times:

Quoting lakeeffect (Reply 120):

While there won't be passengers disembarking between CLE and PIT; technically, the two cities will still be connected via F9's CLE-PIT-PUJ routing and CLE-PIT-CUN routing.

USA3000 used to sell tickets between PIT and CLE when they did those flights. Too bad Frontier won't do the same to keep that 87 year streak going.



FLYi
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5373 posts, RR: 7
Reply 123, posted (4 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 15668 times:

Quoting PITrules (Reply 122):
Too bad Frontier won't do the same to keep that 87 year streak going.

And apparently they won't, as of today. Maybe that will change. The schedule shows the flights (it also lists CLE-CVG) but won't allow bookings.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlinedumbell2424 From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 914 posts, RR: 2
Reply 124, posted (3 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 15108 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Lyft (which has taken the area by storm judging by the amount of people I know who are taking it more and more often) has expanded to include service out to the airport.

http://www.post-gazette.com/news/tra...stern-suburbs/stories/201404020157

Doing some quick math in my head:

Per mile: $1.40, per minute: $0.30, pickup: $2.50, safety fee: $1.00

So, downtown to the airport is about 18 miles and can be done in 30min with no traffic, so about $38. Yellow cab is only ~$40-45 usually. So not that much in terms of saving.


User currently offlinetarmacphotos From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 382 posts, RR: 2
Reply 125, posted (3 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 14989 times:

I'm not sure I'd want to jump in an unlicensed jitney that puts a pink mustache on its grill to save a couple bucks. You may as well put an add on Craigslist asking for a ride with a disclaimer "serial killers need not respond".

User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5373 posts, RR: 7
Reply 126, posted (3 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 14983 times:

Quoting tarmacphotos (Reply 125):
I'm not sure I'd want to jump in an unlicensed jitney

It's no worse than "Uber" with is a gypsy taxi service in DC and other areas. Some people highly recommend Uber over the existing taxi companies.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlinedumbell2424 From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 914 posts, RR: 2
Reply 127, posted (3 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 14972 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 126):
It's no worse than "Uber" with is a gypsy taxi service in DC and other areas. Some people highly recommend Uber over the existing taxi companies.

Uber is now in PIT too. The fare estimator on their website says $33-43.


User currently offlineGSP psgr From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 160 posts, RR: 0
Reply 128, posted (3 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 14973 times:

Looks like United will drop PIT-LAX in September. I guess it's not wholly surprising considering the US/AA merger and the relatively new service that AA started to directly compete with it. Maybe if we're lucky, UA starts to run PIT-SFO as a daily rather than 4x weekly service as a consolation prize.

User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3136 posts, RR: 4
Reply 129, posted (3 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 14921 times:

Got a chuckle out of this, a United ad on my FB feed:

"Fly United from PIT
Book a flight to CLE on United.com and get the lowest United fare - guaranteed."

Quoting GSP psgr (Reply 128):
Looks like United will drop PIT-LAX in September. I guess it's not wholly surprising considering the US/AA merger and the relatively new service that AA started to directly compete with it. Maybe if we're lucky, UA starts to run PIT-SFO as a daily rather than 4x weekly service as a consolation prize.

To me it is surprising considering how poorly AA has done with the route so far. Sure, now that US is in OneWorld from the start of this month one would expect AA to do better (and I hope it does); but I would have thought United would have stuck it out a bit longer to see if AA's poor showing improves or not. Looking at some random dates in the weeks ahead, United seems to be doing as well as AA based on published fares and seats blocked off.

With 330 PDEW between PIT and Los Angeles and two nonstop flights, looks like about half the travelers still chose connecting flights. Now a lot more will be doing the same.



FLYi
User currently offlinetarmacphotos From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 382 posts, RR: 2
Reply 130, posted (3 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 14895 times:

Quoting PITrules (Reply 129):
With 330 PDEW between PIT and Los Angeles and two nonstop flights, looks like about half the travelers still chose connecting flights. Now a lot more will be doing the same.

I wonder how many connected through PHX, PHL, and CLT on US? I would think many will now fly AA to LAX because of One World as you mentioned. Also, AA announced it is making LAX its Asia-Pacific hub. This should also add some demand for the flight if they are shifting their Asia-Pacific focus from ORD and DFW to LAX.

[Edited 2014-04-07 17:29:49]

User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3136 posts, RR: 4
Reply 131, posted (3 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 14869 times:

Quoting tarmacphotos (Reply 130):
I wonder how many connected through PHX, PHL, and CLT on US? I would think many will now fly AA to LAX because of One World as you mentioned.

I'm sure many connected through those places just to chase miles, which just kills the region's attempt to get new service which we have seen yet again with today's news. From just a couple weeks ago:
"Too often, Davin and Fitzgerald said, while executives may favor the direct flights, company employees often choose connections that will give them more frequent-flyer perks."
http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburg...ey-role-in-future-of.html?page=all


I hope the AA flight does better now, although I don't know what a 1230 departure does for anyone. Still disappointed United will drop the route. I did see they are adding back a third DEN flight, but that is most likely to compete with WN who will add a second daily flight.



FLYi
User currently onlinesteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9182 posts, RR: 18
Reply 132, posted (3 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 14808 times:

Quoting PITrules (Reply 129):
"Fly United from PIT
Book a flight to CLE on United.com and get the lowest United fare - guaranteed."

Is UA trying to tell us something here?  

hover-cars, anyone?

Quoting PITrules (Reply 129):
With 330 PDEW between PIT and Los Angeles and two nonstop flights, looks like about half the travelers still chose connecting flights. Now a lot more will be doing the same.

One would think that, but you do have to wonder. What is it that makes people prefer connecting flights over non-stop? Logistically, non-stops are the way to go, but does overall comfort come into play in terms of aircraft size and flight duration?

AA is doing that with a 738. Granted, it's about the same size as an A320, but maybe more folks would prefer an A321, 739, or a 757 for city pairs like PIT-LAX.

At the same time, flight time I think is an issue. I think I mentioned this in another discussion (perhaps the OAG thread) that AA needs to utilize the gate space properly when doing a PIT-LAX flight. PIT is a large US loyal market and they're trying to grow their LAX hub. I think they'd be foolish to remove the option of traveling to/connecting in LAX due to that...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5373 posts, RR: 7
Reply 133, posted (3 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 14766 times:

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 132):
What is it that makes people prefer connecting flights over non-stop? Logistically, non-stops are the way to go, but does overall comfort come into play in terms of aircraft size and flight duration?

WN carries an amazing amount of one-stop traffic, even with non-stop competition. DoT says WN carried 24.6% of PIT-LAX in Q3, 2013



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineFlaps From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1261 posts, RR: 4
Reply 134, posted (3 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 14673 times:

They joined Star prior to 2004 but not long before. It was during the time when UA and US were hotly pursuing their merger plans

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 132):
One would think that, but you do have to wonder. What is it that makes people prefer connecting flights over non-stop?

It really isnt that complicated. With only two nonstops per day you get little choice regarding departure times. Only one choice if you are an elite with only one of those airlines. Many of us simply need to be certain places at certain times and if that means a connection over waiting for a nonstop or departing hours earlier than necessary, so be it. Take me for example. I am a DL elite and I'm not going to take either of the flights by UA or AA under any circumstances. DL provides me with numerous options to LAX that fit any schedule that I have to follow. The FF perks are just icing on the cake but a pretty good icing if I do say so. The only thing that AA and UA offer is the non-stop and compared to the other option that just isn't enough,


User currently offlinedabpit From United States of America, joined May 2012, 103 posts, RR: 0
Reply 135, posted (3 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 14601 times:

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 132):
AA is doing that with a 738. Granted, it's about the same size as an A320, but maybe more folks would prefer an A321, 739, or a 757 for city pairs like PIT-LAX.

Passengers just don't want to end up on a regional jet. Other than that the aircraft does not matter as much to the general public.


User currently offlinetooluther From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 305 posts, RR: 1
Reply 136, posted (3 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 14247 times:

I've seen some twitter chatter that B6 is adding PIT-FLL (per speculation above). Anyone have anything credible?

Side note: flee WN this morning out of PIT for the first time in a while. Very strange to be boarding from all the way down at A15!


User currently offlineflightsimer From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 541 posts, RR: 1
Reply 137, posted (3 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 14128 times:

Quoting PITrules (Reply 129):

What site are you using to see the PDEW? I'm curious about the numbers for some other routes from PIT.

Also, does anyone remember the site that you could select an airport and it would tell you the top airports that the origin airport would like non-stop service to? I remember it being posted many threads ago when Cancun said Pit was their #1 destination wanting full service.



Commercial Pilot- SEL, MEL, Instrument
User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3136 posts, RR: 4
Reply 138, posted (3 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 14105 times:

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 137):

What site are you using to see the PDEW? I'm curious about the numbers for some other routes from PIT.
http://www.dot.gov/policy/aviation-p...stic-airline-fares-consumer-report

Use Table 6, and the PDEW are in column I. I believe these are for entire metro areas, not a specific airport. For example, Chicago would be ORD and MDW combined.

This is a site you might like, great for checking how a specific route is doing with loads
http://www.aviationdb.com/Aviation/F4SDetailQuery.shtm

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 137):

Also, does anyone remember the site that you could select an airport and it would tell you the top airports that the origin airport would like non-stop service to? I remember it being posted many threads ago when Cancun said Pit was their #1 destination wanting full service.
http://www.therouteshop.com/

CUN:
http://www.therouteshop.com/profiles/cancun-airport/

PIT is also on AUA's wish list:
http://www.therouteshop.com/profiles/aruba-airport/

And PIT's page:
http://www.therouteshop.com/profiles/pittsburgh-airport/



Speaking of (the lack of) air service development:
http://triblive.com/news/allegheny/5...t-authority-harshman#axzz2ybrRYpVZ

http://www.post-gazette.com/local/we...y-thin-on-top/stories/201404110169

[Edited 2014-04-11 13:18:27]


FLYi
User currently offlineflightsimer From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 541 posts, RR: 1
Reply 139, posted (3 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 13963 times:

Thank you for the sites, I figured you would know exactly which ones I was talking about.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 138):

That is very sad to hear about Lucinda. I spoke with her a couple of weeks ago and she was very nice and friendly over the phone. She seemed to be very down to earth and truly had the airport's long term development at heart. I was planning on meeting with her to talk over some things in the very near future. I might just have to do so even quicker now.

[Edited 2014-04-11 19:47:26]


Commercial Pilot- SEL, MEL, Instrument
User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3136 posts, RR: 4
Reply 140, posted (3 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 13764 times:

February another bad month at PIT as total available seats were up 2.7% - yet overall traffic down again 4%.
http://www.flypittsburgh.com/pit-passenger-traffic-report-for-feb-2014



FLYi
User currently offlinepit From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 188 posts, RR: 0
Reply 141, posted (3 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 13548 times:

Look out for an announcement from JBU regarding PIT early tomorrow morning.  

[Edited 2014-04-13 13:49:50]

User currently offlinetarmacphotos From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 382 posts, RR: 2
Reply 142, posted (3 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 13522 times:

Quoting pit (Reply 141):
Look out for an announcement from JBU regarding PIT early tomorrow morning.  

PIT-FLL perhaps?


User currently offlineJetBlue1058 From United States of America, joined Mar 2013, 120 posts, RR: 1
Reply 143, posted (3 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 13498 times:

PIT:
you better not be lying.
This JetBlue PIT fan is literally crying if its a new route announcement.



JetBlue E190 seats, 5D and 16A= no better place in the world
User currently offlineJetBlue1058 From United States of America, joined Mar 2013, 120 posts, RR: 1
Reply 144, posted (3 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 13458 times:

Its FLL


JetBlue E190 seats, 5D and 16A= no better place in the world
User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3136 posts, RR: 4
Reply 145, posted (3 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 13456 times:

   PIT- Southeast Florida is too big of a market to only be served by two 50 seaters. If WN doesn't want to maintain FL's market share, someone else will.


FLYi
User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3136 posts, RR: 4
Reply 146, posted (3 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 13293 times:

Flights are loaded starting in late Oct. Daily flights, and pleasantly surprised to see it will be an A320. Looks to RON at PIT as well.


FLYi
User currently offlinepit From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 188 posts, RR: 0
Reply 147, posted (3 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 13287 times:

October 29th
https://www.jetblue.com/wherewejet/

Quoting PITrules (Reply 146):
pleasantly surprised to see it will be an A320.

I wouldn't look to see many new 190 routes anymore. All have been deferred til 2020.


User currently offlineJetBlue1058 From United States of America, joined Mar 2013, 120 posts, RR: 1
Reply 148, posted (3 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 13283 times:

is it a bad thing im already booked on the inagural???
Heck no!

Schedule:
PIT-FLL 7:10-10:00 B6 2007 (starts Oct. 30th)
FLL-PIT: 18:55-21:30 B6 2008 (starts Oct. 29th)



JetBlue E190 seats, 5D and 16A= no better place in the world