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American Eagle Reaches Pilot Deal; Gets 60 E75s  
User currently offlinepanam330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2679 posts, RR: 9
Posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 17523 times:

For those that don't follow the big MQ thread, Eagle reached a deal with their pilots and will receive 60+90 Embraer E175s as a result.

http://airchive.com/blog/2014/01/13/...-deal-pilots-receive-embraer-jets/

125 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineplanenutok From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 22 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 17341 times:

The deal still has to be voted on by the pilots.

User currently offlineairportugal310 From Tokelau, joined Apr 2004, 3641 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 17238 times:

Quoting planenutok (Reply 1):

Chances of it not passing if you had to guess?



I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
User currently offlineFutureFO From Ireland, joined Oct 2001, 3132 posts, RR: 21
Reply 3, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 16923 times:

I would say no pass. As much as they have been scaled down, I don't see this passing.


I Don't know where I am anymore
User currently offlineSinlock From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1647 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 16770 times:

Quoting FutureFO (Reply 3):
I would say no pass. As much as they have been scaled down, I don't see this passing.

I'm sure the contract is not what they wanted, but I no vote could put the planes in the hands of Piedmont and/or PSA.



My Country can beat up your Country....
User currently offlinePanAmPaul From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 242 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 16677 times:

Important to note the following:

Quote:
The airline’s pilots must still ratify the deal and the vote is to take place at a future date....

Given the contentious relationship between pilots and management there, it's far from certain that it will pass altho I suspect it will.

Above from

New Pilot Contract Allows American Eagle to Add Larger Embraer Planes to Fleet

.


User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3483 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 16608 times:

I'll go on record as saying I dont think it will pass.

The terms are pretty brutal.

A 4 year pay scale for First Officers. That locks a FO lower than $30000 a year. Ridiculous in a booming industry with a pilot shortage.

I think the pilots at this carrier have had enough and have a contract in place already that they will stick to. AA will gradually phase them out.


User currently offlineavi8 From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 663 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 16547 times:
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Si why is te title of the thread saying that they reached a deal and then many people saying that the pilots still have to vote? I apologize if it is a stupid question I'm just very confused.


avi8
User currently offlinePanAmPaul From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 242 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 16517 times:

Quoting avi8 (Reply 7):
Si why is te title of the thread saying that they reached a deal and then many people saying that the pilots still have to vote? I apologize if it is a stupid question I'm just very confused.

Eagle management and the pilots union reached an agreeement. That was the "deal" that was reached I suppose. Without such a deal, there is no opportunity for the union to bring it to the membership for a vote.


User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8380 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 16464 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 6):
A 4 year pay scale for First Officers. That locks a FO lower than $30000 a year. Ridiculous in a booming industry with a pilot shortage.

If that's the case they can vote with their feet and go work somewhere else. The reality is that while the industry is booming fares aren't exactly booming. $30,000/yr is more likely what the market can bare, whether they like it or not. They still make more than a school teacher and with a lot less responsibility.


User currently offline747fan From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1187 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 16350 times:

I would be very surprised if the pilots vote yes to this contract.

User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3483 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (8 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 16141 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 9):
They still make more than a school teacher and with a lot less responsibility.

Are you kidding me?

#1 In there bases of NY, BOS, Dallas, Chicago and Miami they certainly make LESS than a school teacher.

#2 when a school teacher has a bad day like WN did the other day in Branson, they do not make NATIONAL NEWS.

Frankly, I am sick and tired of hearing of the school teachers' plight in this country. Yes, we are holding them more accountable now. That's because our education system is woefully inadequate when compared with other developed countries in the world.


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11640 posts, RR: 61
Reply 12, posted (8 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 15956 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 9):
If that's the case they can vote with their feet and go work somewhere else. The reality is that while the industry is booming fares aren't exactly booming. $30,000/yr is more likely what the market can bare, whether they like it or not.

The bottom line is that, much like with the old adage about outrunning the bear, airlines need only undercut whatever the last concessionary deal was they got.

Thus why the Eagle pilots are in the position they're in: after PSA gave USAirways an extremely favorable (from the airline's perspective) deal, it cut Eagle pilots' negotiating position off at the knees. Eagle pilots had already cut a bankruptcy concession deal with AMR management, and then Parker rolled into town with his latest PSA contract in hand and told the Eagle pilots he wanted more.

Not nice, not popular, but that's reality - and it's just a continuation of the process that has repeatedly befallen the regional pilot profession for the last decade - from Mesa to GoJet to Pinnacle and on and on. As long as management always had another group they could go to that was willing to accept a lower-paying deal, management would simply shift the flying there. It's inevitable and inescapable economics: management would have to stand up in front of investors and defend why they weren't placing regional feed with the lowest-priced provider. (I know, I know - there's the common retort about how "lowest-priced" isn't always "lowest cost," but the point is still valid.)

I agree this process will eventually end one way or another as pilots become more scarce and thus the cost of pilot labor naturally increases, but in the interim, it will only change with further consolidation in the regional industry - either through mergers or more regionals going out of business. I think more of both is likely.


User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8380 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (8 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 15727 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 11):
Are you kidding me?

#1 In there bases of NY, BOS, Dallas, Chicago and Miami they certainly make LESS than a school teacher.

Right but how many pilots actually live in Boston, Dallas, Chicago, Miami. At the very least they live in the suburbs where the cost of living is much lower and i bet most don't live anywhere near where their base is. Teachers have no such luxury. They have to live in Boston, Dallas, Chcago, Miami.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 11):

#2 when a school teacher has a bad day like WN did the other day in Branson, they do not make NATIONAL NEWS.

Indeed, if your only source of news is a.net.
The Sandy Hook shooting did not make national news? Are you f'ing kidding me?
In the U.S. how many pilots died last year while at work? How many teachers died last year while at work? How many passengers died last year while flying? How many students died last year while at school? I rest my case.

[Edited 2014-01-14 07:59:41]

User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4280 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (8 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 15723 times:

In a related story the EV pilots have overwhelmingly rejected a TA with 83 percent voting no.

Let's see if the envoy vote is similar.

[Edited 2014-01-14 07:55:18]

User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7703 posts, RR: 21
Reply 15, posted (8 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 15646 times:
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Quoting airbazar (Reply 9):
They still make more than a school teacher and with a lot less responsibility.

It's pretty pointless arguing over who has more responsibility. The jobs are very different indeed, both of them with a shed-load of responsibility. I certainly wouldn't argue pilots have less, but I probably wouldn't say the same about teachers.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 9):
$30,000/yr is more likely what the market can bare,

It's a pretty disgraceful level of pay for the training and responsibility (if teachers are in the same boat then please, start a thread on that and I'll say the same).



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8380 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (8 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 15587 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 15):
It's a pretty disgraceful level of pay for the training and responsibility (if teachers are in the same boat then please, start a thread on that and I'll say the same).

The point I was trying to make is that we live in a free capitalist market and salaries will be what the market can bare. Period. We'd all like to get paid more for our jobs but it doesn't work that way. It's what your customers are willing to pay for your services that matters, regardless of whether you're a pilot, a flight attendant, a teacher, or a mechanic.

Also to his point, teachers do have higher entry level salaries but their ceiling is a lot lower. Here in Boston a school teacher with 10+ years experience and a doctorate degree can make less than $100K. I don't see a senior 777 captain making that little money.


User currently offlinegeg2rap From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 851 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 15575 times:

Actually the teacher and pilot analogy is pretty comparable.
Teachers only get paid when they are at work. Not when they are at home grading or staying after school helping kids (at least where I work). Pilots, similarly, get paid when the door is closed. Not doing pre-flights, walk around, mtx delays etc.
As a math teacher, I would expect to make less than a pilot for the following reasons:
1. They work year round, as a teacher I get "paid" to "work" 180 days give or take a couple. Pilots work more days per year than that.
2. While teaching is important, if I make a computation error on grades, it is not a life or death matter. And can be corrected in hindsight. If a pilot does, it could be a different story.
3. I get to be home every night with my kids. Every weekend with my kids, every holiday with my kids. Pilots don't. My wife is a pharmacist, and believe me it wakes me up to how good teaching is when she has to work a weekend or Christmas.
4. My training, while expensive, didn't require 1500 hours of work at the rate required to get flying hours. Student teaching is dumb (paying to do someones job for them while they get paid a full salary) and college tutition is crazy, but not flying hours crazy.
If I wasn't so happily married with my kids, I would love to be a pilot, but chose teaching because it doesn't impede on my ability to be a part of my kids every day life.


User currently offlineN353SK From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 822 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 15476 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 13):
how many pilots actually live in Boston, Dallas, Chicago, Miami. At the very least they live in the suburbs where the cost of living is much lower and i bet most don't live anywhere near where their base is. Teachers have no such luxury. They have to live in Boston, Dallas, Chcago, Miami.

Average teacher salary in Boston: $81,963
Average teacher salary in Waltham, MA: $70,262

source: http://profiles.doe.mass.edu/state_report/teachersalaries.aspx

My point being that the teacher's compensation generally varies in relation to cost of living near his school district. The RJ FO does not receive any type of of compensation for cost of living. While many young, single RJ FOs would live in urban areas near their base if they could, they simply cannot afford to.


User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7703 posts, RR: 21
Reply 19, posted (8 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 15381 times:
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Quoting airbazar (Reply 16):

The point I was trying to make is that we live in a free capitalist market and salaries will be what the market can bare. Period.

Great, except it doesn't always work that way. Salaries also need to be at a level in such professions which encourage talent and responsibility in spades, which regardless of what the market can bear is something eminently required in that profession. So no, that's not quite the end of it. There are always other considerations. If you're content to see standards driven down into the dirt then I wish you well, but I don't want that from those flying me around, and YES - I'll happily pay a bit extra for that.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlinegeg2rap From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 851 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 15326 times:

Just to adjust, I am a 9th year teacher in Colorado Springs and I make 45k.

User currently offlineN353SK From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 822 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 15235 times:

Quoting geg2rap (Reply 20):
Just to adjust, I am a 9th year teacher in Colorado Springs and I make 45k.

I fully realize that teacher salaries in Boston are probably much, much higher than most of the country. I used Massachusetts because it was the first good data set I could find. My point was that teacher salaries generally vary in relation to the cost of living in that area. You make 45k in Colorado Springs. You could probably make more as a teacher in Denver, and less as a teacher in Alamosa, no?


User currently offlineShawn Patrick From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 2608 posts, RR: 16
Reply 22, posted (8 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 15174 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 16):
The point I was trying to make is that we live in a free capitalist market and salaries will be what the market can bare. Period.

People like you are in for a big reality check in regards to your statement. Your free capitalist market pool of potential regional pilots is drying up FAST. The market will very quickly be DEMANDING pay RAISES for regional pilots. Concessionary deals are going down in flames left and right - check the latest news on XJT's rejection of their concessionary proposal. Regional airline pilots are standing up for themselves.

It is not the responsibility of a particular work group to pay and suffer for the airlines' inability to charge realistic fares. It's time for the "brilliant" management leadership to find another way to please Wall Street's demands.

Airlines have managed to adjust to a HUGE increase in fuel cost of the past decade. Fuel is a huge operating expense, way more than pilot pay. If airlines have managed to turn record profits in a recessionary economy with high fuel prices, they surely they can adjust their business to accommodate more reasonable pilot compensation, which is a pretty small piece of the overall cost pie. It IS happening as we speak, but the CEOs will do it begrudgingly, kicking and screaming. And I'll be sitting back popping popcorn watching the show unfold, laughing at people like you who refused to see it coming.

And that's how your free capitalist market works.

[Edited 2014-01-14 09:32:16]

[Edited 2014-01-14 09:32:40]

User currently offlineB727FA From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 764 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 15171 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 11):
Frankly, I am sick and tired of hearing of the school teachers' plight in this country. Yes, we are holding them more accountable now. That's because our education system is woefully inadequate when compared with other developed countries in the world.

Our funding, education of teachers and expectations of the STUDENTS is "woefully inadequate" as well.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 13):
The Sandy Hook shooting did not make national news? Are you f'ing kidding me?

I was thinking the same thing. What's a "bad day?" A bad day for a crew member: short call for a crappy 3 day or a re-route. A "bad day" for a teacher: fire drill in the middle of a major exam. CRAPPY day for a pilot: landing at the wrong airport or bending metal at all. CRAPPY day for a teacher: shooting in the class room. Again, define "bad day."



My comments/opinions are my own and are not to be construed as the opinion(s) of my employer.
User currently offlinegeg2rap From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 851 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 15023 times:

Quoting N353SK (Reply 21):
You could probably make more as a teacher in Denver, and less as a teacher in Alamosa, no?

Yes, but I also get to teach in a very high performing school district that expects a great deal from both teachers and students. It's a trade off like working for say G4, where you are at base every night vs DL/AA/UA where you could work up to international flying.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 11):
Frankly, I am sick and tired of hearing of the school teachers' plight in this country. Yes, we are holding them more accountable now. That's because our education system is woefully inadequate when compared with other developed countries in the world.

Not to go too off topic, but also remember in the US we educate every child until 18 (at least every child has the opportunity to get free education until 18). Many "high achieving" countries only have the future doctors, engineers etc still going into school in 9-12th grade. The future McDonalds workers are already done with school and working.
So saying our "everyone" system is not competing with their "cream of the crop" example is like saying every pilot is crazy overpaid because the average pay is $250k per year (which the cream of the international captain crop COULD make).
Oh the fun of a sick kid day


25 lightsaber : Interesting... Let us see how the vote goes... They they are voting away jobs. As noted: Or even an outside vendor... Then as noted, the pilots should
26 apodino : I have not seen a link, but this was all over the Stop the Whipsaw facebook group this morning, and is buzzing on other forums where airline pilots f
27 passedv1 : The reason people work for $30,000 a year for the regionals is because Delta Captains are making $300,000. People are putting up with the $30,000 a ye
28 ultrapig : From where I sit in the middle seat of coach, pilot compensation seems to be backwards. Granted, the pilot of a bigger jet can kill more people-but pe
29 tyler81190 : Setting aside the legal issues with that theory, It would be a money losing deal for you. Not just the initial start up costs, but then you have to t
30 Jetmatt777 : You have the same effect with Ramp Agents and other ground staff. You get what your seniority can hold. What often happens is, your junior ramp agent
31 thegoldenargosy : Actually mornings usually go pretty senior. The mid shift and the night shift is usually junior.
32 Jetmatt777 : Not where I work. Mid shift is extremely senior, mornings are very junior. And night is a mix.
33 jfklganyc : No offense, that was 9/11 in the school world. What is a bad day? What is an unthinkable tragedy By your thinking, a ticket taker at AMC should make
34 web500sjc : I wonder if anyone has thought of how this will effect future hiring? As a pilot who will, within this cycle of contracts, be looking for a job, I lo
35 atct : Hardly. My wife is a teacher and everywhere we lived; Florida, Texas, Pennsylvania, and Alaska; Teacher's made more than first year FO's at Eagle. Re
36 mrocktor : It ends when the oversupply of pilots ends. By the comments in this thread, this is happening as we speak. Good. On a side note, as long as piloting
37 msp747 : Not to keep this thread off topic, but I think it's pretty strange to compare a school shooting to landing at a wrong airport. The worst day possible
38 DDR : What would happen if the XJT and Eagle pilots vote no? That would be a lot of pilots covering a lot of flying. This much capacity couldn't be replaced
39 usflyer msp : I have never understood why pilots ever agreed to the pay rate being dependent upon what type of plane you fly. From what I understand, that is not th
40 Mir : Then management is going to have to stand up in front of the investors shortly and defend why they're having to cancel flights because the lowest-pri
41 commavia : Absolutely - mainline management has to consider both, and plan accordingly. Thus - I suspect - precisely why we're seeing, in addition to the contin
42 jfritz : It talked about a quicker progression into the main airline. Just out of curiosity what is ballpark timeframe from starting at the regional and then m
43 roswell41 : It can be anywhere from a year or two to never. I know that's not a great answer but the last decade has really skewed what a 'normal' progression lo
44 jfritz : Very good, thanks for the response Roswell
45 bahadir : Read RLA much? Oh OK.. I will work on that better job right now.. Where should I go? My response to the previous poster is the same to you.. Read the
46 tyler81190 : I completely agree, plan for the worst, hope for the best... Bet on the FO pay for a long time, and hope for better pay in the future. It will probab
47 Acey559 : I will. I'm on pay step three right now so if this gets voted in I'll be capped this September (my anniversary) and realistically I'll never see a ra
48 tyler81190 : I don't hold high hopes for it passing. But I would hate to see a fellow aviator walk away from the industry. I wish you the best of luck, and my tho
49 RussianJet : Sorry if I'm missing something obvious, but please help me out with this. How to you get to be old and incapable as an airline pilot? You can't just
50 B747400ERF : Economics isn't a religion. Stop treating it as one. There is no free market when you are exploiting desperate workers who need jobs. And talking dow
51 mrocktor : You can be absolutely mediocre at everything you do, as long as you don't break any rules you are untouchable. And even when you do unimagniably stup
52 Mir : Both of which are horrible metrics for how good pilots are at their jobs. Landing quality especially. The problem with grading pilots on metrics is t
53 Post contains images lightsaber : I'm of the age where my child hood friends are now deciding if they want to retire or stay in the military. Due the poor pay of commercial pilots sta
54 Cubsrule : That's easy, actually: measure total experience versus seniority. Imagine that DL hires two pilots, one with 3 years of experience flying CRJs at OO
55 Mir : That's what a national seniority list would be. But it's still a seniority-based system - there's no real merit-based advancement. It should be point
56 Cubsrule : It would, but that's where tort law steps in, as the threat of a lawsuit after one of those less experienced pilots crashes an airplane is a pretty p
57 Highflier92660 : Does the new American Eagle contract address any potential scope clause issues with the upcoming E175 E2? SkyWest has 100 on order. The E175 E2 has a
58 Mir : I doubt any such lawsuit would have a prayer of succeeding. The airline's argument: the pilot was legally qualified and trained by the airline, and t
59 Cubsrule : And yet we have crashes like FLG3701. Inexperience operating at FL410 was no doubt a factor there. How about COM5191? Inexperience at LEX was a probl
60 strfyr51 : At a major flying the Big equipment and getting paid for it makes the big equipment desirable and insures there are NO shortage of candidates to fly
61 N353SK : All of those "inexperiences" cited by you are very acute instances, none of which relate to overall pilot experience. Most 10,000 hour CRJ captains h
62 Mir : Which isn't related to overall experience. A pilot with 5,000 hours in MD-80s and another 5,000 hours in 737 Classics wouldn't have any experience at
63 Acey559 : Unless AA agrees to a change in scope, those can't be placed at any regional. EGL ALPA is in the process, should we pass this, of ensuring management
64 JoeCanuck : There are many supply/demand curves in any industry, including airlines. First, we have the curves relating to setting the price of a ticket. These di
65 Cubsrule : Then it proves the point that perhaps we should look more generally, right? They were inexperienced operating in to fields (runways) without operativ
66 Mir : You can look at it however you want, you're not going to find evidence to support a conclusion that an airline would be liable for hiring inexperienc
67 Cubsrule : It's a novel theory as far as I know. Most large companies--airlines included--evaluate possible liability from new or different types of lawsuits. I
68 Mir : They'd be on the hook for that liability anyway. The experience of the pilot isn't going to add anything (because you can't prove inexperience had an
69 Cubsrule : I can imagine a CVR transcript that proves pretty conclusively that inexperience is an issue. Certainly, the 9L BUF transcript contained some discuss
70 Mir : And yet that had nothing to do with the crash, so any lawsuit based on that would have no merit. And again, you're expecting pilots hired by an airli
71 Cubsrule : Nor did I argue differently. Read more carefully. Not at all. That's why I said that seniority has value. But a system that rewards for experience AN
72 tyler81190 : Nationwide seniority list would be an awful thing to implement. Plus, I am all for less regulation from the government when it doesn't need to be the
73 ACKattack : And that is exactly the free market. When the the next generation of workers don't enter the field because the perceived return on the investment of
74 flight152 : No regional airline pays $2/hour per diem.
75 Post contains images lightsaber : Iv'e read enough of the RLA. Have you read Adam Smith's "Wealth of Nations?" Or anything by Bernstein or Friedman on economics? You cannot just wish
76 N353SK : Have you ever read the transcript? The FO said "oh yeah oh it's lots of ice" and the Captain said "oh yeah that's the most I've seen— most ice I've
77 Mir : But remember that the contracts are being pushed now, and that they're all long-term deals. So that trickle-down will not happen until those contract
78 Cubsrule : I think if nationwide seniority was done, it would have to come from the unions, not the government. And it wouldn't have to be at all carriers--cont
79 strfyr51 : So How is that going to be accomplished?? Obviously YOU didn't lose any loved ones or friends on 9/11.. The Security manager at Boston Logan didn't K
80 Highflier92660 : Low pay and interminable duty hours flying for regional airlines is not a recent phenomena. My father flew for Wings West Airlines back in the early a
81 Cubsrule : Precheck is a good start and should be expanded, perhaps with more tiers that the three we have now (precheck, regular and SSSS). Better staffing wou
82 N353SK : You're disregarding the context of the discussion they were having. The FO was discussing how IOE at Colgan was a "feet to the fire" experience as fa
83 silentbob : With collectively bargained contracts, it is very difficult to raise wages in order to attract candidates.
84 Cubsrule : Not what I said. I said that I could IMAGINE a CVR transcript that indicated that inexperience caused or contributed to an accident and that the 9L t
85 lightsaber : Thank you for sharing. Due to that pool of pilots 'in other occupations,' I do not think we'll ever have a true pilot shortage. Oh, we'll have a shor
86 tyler81190 : I should have given a range, $1-$2 Just like the minimum wage law. If you are required to be on-call, say for fire-fighters or doctors, pilots, polic
87 commavia : The plot thickens on this pending Envoy-ALPA AIP regarding 76-seaters. As reported elsewhere on the internet, Envoy management (i.e., American Airline
88 Cubsrule : Isn't it both? It's obviously a sweetener for a loser contract, but guaranteed flying for the length of the contract is a big deal too these days.
89 Mir : Which is still a big decrease from their current fleet size of 264. Still not reason enough to lock in today's wages for tomorrow's economy. -Mir
90 realsim : Eagle operates around 220 active aircraft today (E140s, E145s and CRJ7s).
91 Post contains images lightsaber : 50% of pay for on call?!? Wow, I would have made a fortune in 2003-2007 at those rates! Too steep unless the report time is shrunk dramatically. Sinc
92 commavia : Apparently the plan as postulated elsewhere is for the CR7s to leave the Envoy certificate (likely to PSA), the EMB140s to be progressively parked, a
93 tyler81190 : But does not specify hoy many of what type... They could dump all CR7s, and drop the number of 175s and maintain mostly 145s to achieve the number pr
94 Cubsrule : You think AA wants 170 50 seat aircraft? Bankruptcy is about the only place that a contracting party can terminate a contract "if he wants to," at le
95 realsim : With the current scope clause and current number of narrowbody mainline aircraft that AA+US have, the number of large regional jets (66-76 seats) is
96 tyler81190 : Yes, if it will let them in some way cancel flying for MQ. Not sure how, but it seems likely they will never see 170 new planes. We all know MQ is do
97 lightsaber : Ah... Some on call is one type, some the other. If you are required to attend a location, 50% is fair. That is a shorter 'leash' than I envisioned. I
98 Cubsrule : I'm not quite sure how AA or MQ has wronged you in the past, but this idea that AA is going to keep a bunch of ERJs on property solely to screw MQ is
99 tyler81190 : Yes, otherwise I think airlines would just all but do away with reserve. I can't see any airline paying a 777 Captain $100/hr to sit at home and not
100 KD5MDK : Is being at home but unable to have any alcohol or go anywhere that much better off than being at work?
101 tyler81190 : Look, neither AA nor MQ has wronged me. I have a strong distrust for large corporations who start dangling almost anything at its employees to lower
102 Cubsrule : I agree completely, but if it happens MQ will get "Comair-ed" with jets AA wants, not jets AA doesn't want.
103 JA : What you see as incompetence is sometimes a public disagreement that has spilled out of the shadows. Do not make the assumption that everything done
104 YTZ : Sorry. But just because you have a certain occupation doesn't entitle you to a certain lifestyle. Young, single RJ FOs are not somehow entitled to li
105 B727FA : Wow...that's so uninformed. Sad.
106 Acey559 : I don't think he was talking about lifestyle. All of the bases at Eagle are in urban areas and commuting stinks so if given the choice and proper com
107 tyler81190 : I could agree to that. Still, if they want to shut them down, why not just dump some 145s on them to force them to lose more money, then you have a p
108 realsim : Right now anybody can know what is (are) the plan(s) that management have for Eagle (Envoy). The only fact is that 170 aircraft are guaranteed until 2
109 par13del : We have a lot of people making much more than school teachers with a lot less responsibility without any issue. The shooting did but was it because a
110 Goldenshield : And Cheaper, too. Don't forget about the 900 lb. gorilla who's almost done with E-175 certification.
111 tyler81190 : That is my larger fear... After the bankruptcy, AA can afford to lose money on MQ if the whole AAG remains profitable. Just like when Virgin started
112 GSPSPOT : Well-put and thought-provoking!
113 YTZ : Still doesn't make the complain valid. Indeed, the young, single FO is coming out better in this situation by being able to live in an area with a lo
114 Acey559 : I see what you're saying now. I would assume those other young professionals aren't making less than $20k per year, but there's no way for me to know
115 Cubsrule : There are young lawyers and doctors (residents) making not much more and working a lot more hours.
116 crj900lr : PSA will get them if that's the move we make. From what we have heard Air Wisconsin is not in the plans for AA because its all 50 seat flying which i
117 apodino : Its funny you mention Air Wisconsin. On an employee Q and A site today, Management was asked about the future with only 50 seat airplanes. The respon
118 crj900lr : May be they got something in their back pocket that they are not telling you guys concerning different aircraft or another partner.
119 apodino : Thats the other thought here. With the pilots in contract negotiations, any announcement too soon and the company loses a lot of bargaining leverage
120 tyler81190 : It could just be smoke and mirrors to pouch negotiations in their favor somehow... Or they could be thinking of holding onto MQ 145s until they go th
121 mrocktor : You get what you measure. If you grade pilots on stabilized approaches and touching down within 500ft of the threshold, you will get stabilized appro
122 tyler81190 : Yes, everything you say and do is recorded... Both onboard the plane, and in the ATC centers.
123 wjcandee : The initial loss of control at altitude was caused by that. The CRASH was caused by: (1) Lying to ATC about their actual circumstance (dual-engine fl
124 GSPSPOT : IMO, 50 seats isn't the issue, it's comfort/convenience. I find E-145s far superior to CRJ's in that regard.
125 tyler81190 : I agree, the cabin curvature of the CRJ in the window seat is uncomfortable for me (tall) while the ERJ offers the one-seat side, and less curvature
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