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Frontier TTN Thread Part 7  
User currently offlineJerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1998 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 18122 times:
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Looks like TTN is unstoppable, F9 is adding service to MKE, MSP, and STL.. Also according to the article looking at Destinations to start in next winter. Article also says Frontier is talking to TTN about "runway considerations" for launching service to DEN.

http://www.philly.com/philly/busines...e_nonstop_cities_from_Trenton.html

[Edited 2014-02-19 06:47:26]


Frontier Early Returns Ascent Status| Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
246 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3150 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (7 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 18071 times:

I'm sure BRRAM is jumping with joy. By the way we; or at least I haven't heard a peep from BRRAM across the last several months. The last was a Congressional of sorts. I assume all is not well in the TTN Frontier. I doubt they've raised the   

What connects TTN to MKE, MSP and STL? TTN-STL connect the JBMDL WRI aerial terminal with their parent HQ command at Scott AFB across the river in Illinois.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineJerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1998 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 18044 times:
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Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 1):
By the way we; or at least I haven't heard a peep from BRRAM across the last several months. The last was a Congressional of sorts. I assume all is not well in the TTN Frontier. I doubt they've raised the

They made a peep on their facebook page about how F9 was operating illegally and get involved before its too late to stop the noise back on Jan 31 when UST was announced. But yes prior to that, we hadn't heard from them since mid november . I believe we will be hearing from the soon especially after the "runway considerations" quote.



Frontier Early Returns Ascent Status| Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5111 posts, RR: 21
Reply 3, posted (7 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 18027 times:

Looks like in addition to TTN, STL is also getting nonstops to PDX and SFO on F9, per their website. I wonder if F9 is going to be offering through flights to more distant points out of TTN? Might be something to consider....


Next Up: STL-LGA-RIC-ATL-STL
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3150 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (7 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 18026 times:

Quoting Jerseyguy (Thread starter):
Looks like TTN is unstoppable, F9 is adding service to MKE, MSP, and STL..

According to the Facebook page they've also announced STL to PDX and SFO. But I'll leave that for the other thread



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlinesdoyon From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 months 4 days ago) and read 17924 times:

Not sure if someone has already mentioned this (there are 7 threads now for little old TTN...), but what is the max range off the 6006' runway? We know that DEN at ~1600 miles is too far, but what about DFW or IAH, both of which are about ~1350 miles. Just trying to figure out the next dots on the TTN map!

User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3150 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (7 months 4 days ago) and read 17908 times:

If my count is correct this makes 17 destinations from the TTN focus city when all the service inaugurates. Because F9 is a P2P carrier if I was a hotel/motel chain near the TTN airport I might start to think of marketing a F9 RON rate for passengars who fly in and out with courtesy transportation to/from the airport. I can only guess the hotel(s) may not fully comprehend the ULCC model with limited or no connecting opportunities.

Given my competition is the Philly airport I might start a shuttle service to/from TTN to McGuire AFB. For the local military population assigned to the bases but also to those who fly in and out solely to use the aerial Space-A terminal which is a major gateway to both Europe and the U.S. I see a lot of seats being used on the terminal Facebook page and this is the slow season. Perhaps this is something the TTN airport might want to sponsor or even undertake. I see a valuable return on investment.

[Edited 2014-02-19 08:36:47]


Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineFrontier14 From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 218 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 months 4 days ago) and read 17905 times:

Quoting sdoyon (Reply 5):
We know that DEN at ~1600 miles is too far

It will be interesting to see if F9 will consider a one-way DEN-TTN to get aircraft there as needed. We have already seen a couple of repositioning flights routed fot this purpose.

Frontier 14


User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 months 4 days ago) and read 17893 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 1):
What connects TTN to MKE, MSP and STL? TTN-STL connect the JBMDL WRI aerial terminal with their parent HQ command at Scott AFB across the river in Illinois.

Atleast for MSP and MKE, TTN can be used as a low fare alternative over the nonstops into PHL or EWR. Even the one-stops/connections flights from WN are expensive between PHL/EWR - MSP. F9 already services MKE, MSP and STL also.

F9 might have beat NK from launching PHL-MSP. NK's service pretty much caters to those who are desperate for a low fare when fares are very high elsewhere, but now that F9 will be offering MSP-TTN service, the potential demand for NK's offerings will be reduced.


User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3150 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (7 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 17869 times:

Quoting Frontier14 (Reply 7):
We have already seen a couple of repositioning flights routed fot this purpose.

A wishlist of mine would be for F9 to fly BNA-ORD as a repositioning flight for Apple. It would be the only large jet service on the route. AA and UA fly regional jets between the two cities. It could be from TTN or any other city in the F9 system. WN flies the 73X between BNA-MDW.

I've flown AA puddle jumper service. It can get a bit cramped and bumpy if you find yourself in the midst of a Spring or Summer thunderstorm in the heartland.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineJerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1998 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 17843 times:
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Quoting Frontier14 (Reply 7):
It will be interesting to see if F9 will consider a one-way DEN-TTN to get aircraft there as needed. We have already seen a couple of repositioning flights routed fot this purpose.

Well according to the article about the new service that was announced today "Frontier is looking at adding more leisure destinations from Trenton next winter and is talking with Trenton and Mercer County officials about airspace and runway considerations to possibly begin flights to Denver, Shurz said, in a telephone interview."

Talking about "runway considerations", Dare I dream that means lengthening the runway? What other runway consideration could their be.



Frontier Early Returns Ascent Status| Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2758 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (7 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 17809 times:

Since the DOT 2013 Q3 numbers have just been released..... I sorted through them for the TTN info, and it is as such..... just remember F9 is the only airline involved, so a dropped a lot of columns to show only basic info:

City …… Pax …… Av. Fare …… Miles

ATL …… 112 …… $126.21 ….. 701
CHI …… 143 …… $119.02 ….. 693
CMH …… 51 ….. $89.04 …... 428
DTW …… 99 ….. $98.62 …... 464
MCO …. 106 … $136.99 …... 896
RSW …. 48 ….. $132.10 ….. 1,028
FLL ……. 63 ….. $126.58 ….. 1,047
TPA …… 78 ….. $123.61 ….. 955
MSY …… 32 ….. $103.11 ….. 1,123
RDU …… 101 …… $91.52 ….. 373

I guess that we can see why F9 dropped both MSY and CMH, and the 3rd quarter isn't exactly Florida flying time. And from another site

http://aviationdb.net/aviationdb/F4SDetailQuery#SUBMIT

is showing TTN having 90% plus (up to 95% with MDW) load factors for July 2013.

Now, the big, big, validation of all of this..... when do the quarterly reports for F9 get released?

 

[Edited 2014-02-19 09:33:25]

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16872 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (7 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 17741 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 6):

Given my competition is the Philly airport I might start a shuttle service to/from TTN to McGuire AFB. For the local military population assigned to the bases but also to those who fly in and out solely to use the aerial Space-A terminal which is a major gateway to both Europe and the U.S. I see a lot of seats being used on the terminal Facebook page and this is the slow season.

Gent, this is the company used by civilian and uniform personnel at MDL.

http://www.rapidrover.com/

They're a South Jersey Company, TTN might be outside of their territory.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25273 posts, RR: 85
Reply 13, posted (7 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 17743 times:
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Quoting point2point (Reply 11):
Now, the big, big, validation of all of this..... when do the quarterly reports for F9 get released?

Will they be? Frontier is no longer a publicly listed company.

I suppose they'll be available somewhere, but I can't imagine what anyone is expecting. I mean, why does TTN need validating? It's Indigo's money.

mariner

[Edited 2014-02-19 10:33:10]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2758 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (7 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 17699 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 13):
Will they be? Frontier is no longer a publicly listed company.

Hmmmm.... good info here, I neglected to think that now they are a private company.

Quoting mariner (Reply 13):
I mean, I suppose they'll be available somewhere, but I can't imagine what anyone is expecting. I mean, why does TTN need validating?

I personally would just like to know (as if it's really my business, eh?) if F9 has finally found someplace that they could fly outside of DEN and actually be cash positive. This would be a milestone, if so, I think that we could agree on that point. Just better to actually see it in writing somehow, I guess.

Nonetheless, I think that we all know that in the past when F9 ventured beyond DEN it usually costs them some pretty pennies, and I also would want to see F9 do well, not just for my own convenience of having choice with local air service, but also for the employees. And maybe you can agree with me with this point that every time F9 has announced expansion ex-DEN, I've gotten shivers down my spine (well, a bit drastic, but) and hopefully the TTN expansion will finally be different in this manner.

However, with that, all of these new expansions ex-DEN and ex-TTN have me sorta in that above condition....... CLE-SEA/etc...... STL-SFO/etc......really? Hopefully this new Indigo F9 knows what they're doing with these, or that they haven't invested that much into this yet so that losses won't be that drastic (if these flights don't catch, eh?)

Anyways my friends.......

 


User currently offlinetrianglegis21 From United States of America, joined Dec 2013, 44 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 17697 times:

Interesting numbers, point2point. BTW, where can I access the 3Q data? I actually need the numbers for a case study that I'm working on for UNC and RDU. Also, I'm pleasantly surprised about how well RDU-TTN is doing in terms of passenger numbers. Apparently the July load factor number was up to 94%, and considering how little advertising there has been in my area about the new service, it seems really encouraging to me.

User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25273 posts, RR: 85
Reply 16, posted (7 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 17671 times:
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Quoting point2point (Reply 14):
I personally would just like to know (as if it's really my business, eh?) if F9 has finally found someplace that they could fly outside of DEN and actually be cash positive

I'm sure we'd all like to know, but it is, indeed, none of our business.

It's also dangerous.

People are notorious headline rapists and often don't read the fine print. Indigo is spending $30 million on the new slimline seats, for example, which will affect the bottom line. Now - you and I may understand it's a special charge, but not everyone will.

Quoting point2point (Reply 14):
And maybe you can agree with me with this point that every time F9 has announced expansion ex-DEN, I've gotten shivers down my spine (well, a bit drastic, but) and hopefully the TTN expansion will finally be different in this manner.

TTN has seen nothing but expansion since it began - just fifteen months ago - and that is surely different from most of the other non-DEN experiments. I assume it will take some time for that to pay off - we used to give routes two years to turn a buck, but that seems to be out the window these days.

As long as Indigo is happy, isn't that all that matters? No one is asking the public to invest in this.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2758 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (7 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 17670 times:

Quoting trianglegis21 (Reply 15):

Interesting numbers, point2point. BTW, where can I access the 3Q data?

Here you go......

This site is the DOT site, and use Table 6 that lists all route pairs in the continental U.S. with at least an average of 10 to/from pax daily in the continental U.S. Just a couple of items here is that 1) routes are only listed once, for example you'll find DEN-BNA, and that will include info for both ways.... so then you won't find BNA-DEN. I actually don't know under which one you'll find this, but it will be listed only once, and 2) Table 1a is for metro areas such as NYC, Chicago, LA, D.C. and a few others are listed with multiple airports in this table. So if you see something like BNA-ONT will be the total all of the five (I think, LAX, BUR, LGB, SNA as well as ONT) airports involved here, so that information (listed once) will be for BNA to all of the (what the DOT considers) LA airports. There's a chart (or something) in all of this that explains what airports are involved in what metro areas. However, adding to this, if one pulls up Table 1A, this table gives you the breakdown of all of the metro area airports and other airports. The link is below, and may all of the above make sense.

http://www.dot.gov/policy/aviation-p...stic-airline-fares-consumer-report

I also like to use this site below, in that I'm sure the info is somewhere in the DOT figures (because I guess that from where this site gets the info) but it's broken down is such a way that makes it convenient for me.

http://aviationdb.net/aviationdb/F4SDetailQuery#HELP_SCREEN

May this answer the question, and feel free to ask any more questions. Have fun.

 





[Edited 2014-02-19 11:13:33]

User currently offlinetrianglegis21 From United States of America, joined Dec 2013, 44 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 17640 times:

Is there any way that I can split the metro area data so that I can isolate traffic to certain airports? As an example, I'd like to see how many passengers are flying from RDU-SFO rather than RDU-San Francisco metro area.

User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2758 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (7 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 17631 times:

Quoting trianglegis21 (Reply 18):
Is there any way that I can split the metro area data so that I can isolate traffic to certain airports? As an example, I'd like to see how many passengers are flying from RDU-SFO rather than RDU-San Francisco metro area.

Use Table 1a.......

(sorry, good thing that you asked since I didn't list up above, but fixed now)

 

[Edited 2014-02-19 11:14:27]

User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25273 posts, RR: 85
Reply 20, posted (7 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 17614 times:
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Here's a fun one. The NJ.com is running a poll - where should Frontier fly to next from Trenton?

http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2...xt_for_trenton-mercer_airport.html

"Poll: Where should Frontier Airlines fly next from Trenton-Mercer Airport?"

Understand they they may not know about the range restrictions at TTN, but what's mostly interesting is that DEN isn't the first choice in the popular vote, nor the second.  

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3150 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (7 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 17591 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 12):
They're a South Jersey Company, TTN might be outside of their territory.

Yeah I was made aware of Rapid Rover on the MDL Facebook page. They are the option from the base(s) to PHL. As best I can tell there is nothing established between the base (MDL) and TTN. I'm also under the impression MDL does use their own government van for a periodic trip to PHL for new arrivals. I was lead to believe its a duty section run and not something scheduled.

Quoting point2point (Reply 17):
I also like to use this site below, in that I'm sure the info is somewhere in the DOT figures (because I guess that from where this site gets the info) but it's broken down is such a way that makes it convenient for me.

http://aviationdb.net/aviationdb/F4SDetailQuery#HELP_SCREEN

May this answer the question, and feel free to ask any more questions. Have fun.

The aviation-db site breaks service down to Domestic, International and Latin America. if you aren't careful you could corrupt your data. If you are looking solely for lower 48 flying. Alaska for some strange reason is considered international at least to F9. To borrow the Texas pun "It a whole other country I suppose"



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2758 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (7 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 17532 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 20):
Understand they they may not know about the range restrictions at TTN, but what's mostly interesting is that DEN isn't the first choice in the popular vote, nor the second.

Maybe when all of the NJ potheads wake up and remember that they want to vote here in this, and if they do remember to do it, maybe DEN will get to the #1 position?

 
Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 21):
The aviation-db site breaks service down to Domestic, International and Latin America. if you aren't careful you could corrupt your data. If you are looking solely for lower 48 flying. Alaska for some strange reason is considered international at least to F9. To borrow the Texas pun "It a whole other country I suppose"

I do agree here in that somehow, this site's numbers and numbers from other sites aren't the same when they should be. However, I've usually found them close enough and there may be some reasons that I haven't figured out for the discrepancies (e.g. are non fare-paying pax counted, etc?), but again, I think that to a certain extent they give a good picture of the situation, even though they may somehow not be exactly in sync with other sources.



 


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16872 posts, RR: 51
Reply 23, posted (7 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 17503 times:

How about Nassau, it has a US customs pre-clearence station.

Quoting mariner (Reply 20):
Here's a fun one. The NJ.com is running a poll - where should Frontier fly to next from Trenton?

I voted for Dallas.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25273 posts, RR: 85
Reply 24, posted (7 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 17491 times:
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Quoting STT757 (Reply 23):
How about Nassau, it has a US customs pre-clearence station.

Now you're talking. Not only does it have pre-clearance - but it is also within range.

I'd love to see it, especially remembering that Princeton is called Old Nassau, as is the Princeton song, and the first building is Nassau Hall - then there's Nassau Street and the Nassau Inn.

Hey, why not?  

mariner

[Edited 2014-02-19 12:44:32]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3150 posts, RR: 1
Reply 25, posted (7 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 17566 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 23):
How about Nassau,
Quoting mariner (Reply 24):
Now you're talking. Not only does it have pre-clearance - but it is also within range.

I realize new routes are ultimately up to the F9. If the TTN airport had any say-so in route selection I ponder if they might pullback some knowing the NAU would compete with that other N.J. gambling mecca in ACY. (Atlantic City) TTN-ACY is separated by a short 58 miles as a crow flies.

I haven't been to NAU in twenty years; the last time I was there there wasn't a lot to do except gamble on Paradise. island. I did rent a moped scooter and drove around. To this day I still remember the old Esso gas signs which hung in the U.S. yesteryear still hung in old town Nassau.

I have an inkling if NAU happens it will be from UST.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3150 posts, RR: 1
Reply 26, posted (7 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 17521 times:

point2point posted an article in the other F9 thread (thank you). As it relates to TTN this part caught my attention specifically the last sentence

"Despite the decrease in capacity, a total of 18 new routes are scheduled to be launched in the first half of 2014. Nonetheless, five services have already been inaugurated so far this year, with the most recent additions being the three services from Trenton to Charlotte, Cincinnati and Cleveland added during the course of this week. Taking into consideration the domestic market that is increasingly important for Frontier’s network strategy, 16 services will be launched between US domestic destinations, with Trenton seeing the addition of nine routes".

Have all nine of the new additions out of TTN been announced or are more new cities yet to come? By my count there should be four more at TTN.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25273 posts, RR: 85
Reply 27, posted (7 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 17644 times:
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Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 26):
"Despite the decrease in capacity, a total of 18 new routes are scheduled to be launched in the first half of 2014. Nonetheless, five services have already been inaugurated so far this year, with the most recent additions being the three services from Trenton to Charlotte, Cincinnati and Cleveland added during the course of this week. Taking into consideration the domestic market that is increasingly important for Frontier’s network strategy, 16 services will be launched between US domestic destinations, with Trenton seeing the addition of nine routes".

That article may be one of the most confusing I have ever read - Frontier is shrinking and growing at the same time?   

But - to your question:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 26):
Have all nine of the new additions out of TTN been announced or are more new cities yet to come?

So far this year Frontier has announced or opened the following routes from TTN this year:

CLT, CLE, CVG, BNA, IND, UST, STL, MSP and MKE.

That's the nine they mean, I guess. But I;m only guessing because I found it all so confusing. Let's ignore the part about the "domestic market being increasingly important to Frontier." It's always been important - the lifeblood.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineJerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1998 posts, RR: 0
Reply 28, posted (7 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 17626 times:
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Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 26):
Have all nine of the new additions out of TTN been announced or are more new cities yet to come? By my count there should be four more at TTN.

I believe they have because I believe they mean will start service not necessarily be announced.
1. CLE 2.CVG 3. CLT 4.UST 5.IND 6.BNA 7. MKE 8 MSP 9 STL.

Doesn't mean more couldn't start in the second half of the year (Jun 15th-Dec 31st)



Frontier Early Returns Ascent Status| Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3150 posts, RR: 1
Reply 29, posted (7 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 17514 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 27):
That article may be one of the most confusing I have ever read - Frontier is shrinking and growing at the same time?


Courtesy poster point2point: If you look at the third chart here http://www.anna.aero/2014/02/19/fron...er-airlines-turns-20-this-february F9 has pulled 17.6% of their capacity out of PDX and SEA from DEN. It looks like the capacity is being added back in from other city pairs citing today's new STL-PDX announcement and the CLE-SEA service announcement a few days ago.

By my number crunching two routes do not equale 17.6% Perhaps there is more to come for SEA and PDX from other locations.

If memory serves me Bill Franke told us his intentions were to downsize DEN some. I believe what you are seeing is just that. I for one anticipated more SEA service from somewhere as SEA has been one of F9 stronger markets. I find it hard to believe they would remove capacity and not add it back in elsewhere. If I were to speculate I could see STL-SEA still to come. It would be a good West to East red-eye.

I also think there is some more to come for ATL. WN has announced their intent to de-hub ATL. I read some U.S. housing stats a couple of days ago which indicated ATL is the strongest growing housing market in the U.S. today. The California central valley is second and LAS is third in a top five list of U.S. markets.

I am surprised they picked STL-SFO today and not somewhere in the California central valley.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineJerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1998 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (7 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 17471 times:
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STL flight times are interesting TTN 1005pm STL 1120pm. Guess they really are trying for more utilization of the plane.


Frontier Early Returns Ascent Status| Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
User currently offlineJerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1998 posts, RR: 0
Reply 31, posted (7 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 17246 times:
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Quoting Trenton Times article reply=30:
Shurz said Frontier is working with the county to remove trees and cell towers aligned with runway O6, so that planes can take off at lower angles and conserve fuel for longer distance flights. Planes currently have to take off at a higher than normal angle. Frontier wants to travel to cities farther west from Trenton such as Denver — Frontier’s base of operations — Dallas and Houston. The county is in the process of hiring a firm to conduct a runway obstruction study, spokeswoman Julie Willmot said.

This is great news for Trenton as it really opens up alot of flights that wouldn't have been possible and it addition to that will save fuel costs on all flights Though I'm sure the NIMBYs will be thrilled that they are going over their house at an even lower altitude (though the NIMBYs affected are the Hopewell NIMBYs who are less vocal).

So I guess we have DEN, IAH and DFW as possibilities LAS is always a good tourist destination. As of June when the latest 3 cities start, there will be 73 weekly flights or a little over 10 flights a day. Wondering even with expansion of the waiting area, how many more flights could be added? 3 more cities could easily add another 10 weekly flights.



Frontier Early Returns Ascent Status| Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3150 posts, RR: 1
Reply 32, posted (7 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 17149 times:

http://skyvector.com/airport/TTN/Trenton-Mercer-Airport shows potential obstacles at least on the airport property. If there are cell or utility towers they are not listed and could be further down line.

"Obstacles: 87 ft Tree 2120 ft from runway, 790 ft right of center RWY 06; 185 FT Lighted pole: 100 FT From threshold 500 FT R. 72 ft Tree 1610 ft from runway, 350 ft left of center"

Trees do grow over time. I'm not sure how often the airport the sends someone out to measure monitor tree growth and report it accordingly.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5438 posts, RR: 7
Reply 33, posted (7 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 17104 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 13):
Will they be? Frontier is no longer a publicly listed company.

DoT requires quarterly financial reports from all airlines with revenues over $20 million, whether privately owned or not. Frontier will be filing just as when they were publically owned. As usual, the Dot report is nowhere near as timely as the reports filed with SEC-registered companies, but it will appear about four months after the end of the quarter. The good thing about the DoT report is that it focuses nicely on the airline's health. This DoT report is how people guage how Virgin America, for example, is doing.

The data base is called P-1.2 and can be found at the BTS/RITA government site.

http://www.transtats.bts.gov/DL_Sele...asp?Table_ID=295&DB_Short_Name=Air Carrier Financial



[Edited 2014-02-21 07:04:17]


I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2758 posts, RR: 1
Reply 34, posted (7 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 17044 times:

Quoting Jerseyguy (Reply 31):
As of June when the latest 3 cities start, there will be 73 weekly flights or a little over 10 flights a day. Wondering even with expansion of the waiting area, how many more flights could be added? 3 more cities could easily add another 10 weekly flights.

From the F9 fact sheet,

http://news.flyfrontier.com/sites/fr...ss_kit/file/Fact_Sheet_12-4-13.pdf

it states the F9 operates more than 200 daily flights. Can we say that it's 207 (unless someone has a more accurate number) daily flights system-wide just for fun? Now, with TTN up to about 11 daily flights, that's still only about 3% or so total in the F9 system. With DEN being responsible for about 90% activity for F9 (pax, flights, ets.) that puts about 276 daily flights from there.

The reason that I want to bring this up is that F9 is going to have to build TTN, and then ILG, and others, quite a bit more before DEN becomes anywhere near decentralized for F9's operations. At the same time, as per several sources, F9's NEOs orders will not start arriving until 2016, at the earliest. I would assume that the early deliveries will not immediately be replacing aircraft, although I would think that a lot of these NEOs will be to replace current fleet.

Yes, F9 may be getting a new bird here and there between now and 2016, but it would seem that any buildup of ex-DEN routes would be either from increasing current aircraft flying, or maybe moving routes away from DEN that could be producing better $$$$$ results elsewhere than remaining with the DEN status quo.

So for a while, it seems that DEN will be around 90% of F9's system, at least for the next couple of years. And until 2016 at the earliest will F9 begin to be able to take some serious steps as to reducing its dependence on DEN without reducing what is a given at DEN and moving aircraft elsewhere to take a chance. Can there be enough time in the day to reduce the percentage of F9's DEN dependence any significant amount (let's say even 10%) solely by increasing aircraft flying time?

 


User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5438 posts, RR: 7
Reply 35, posted (7 months 2 days ago) and read 17045 times:

Quoting point2point (Reply 34):
Can there be enough time in the day to reduce the percentage of F9's DEN dependence any significant amount (let's say even 10%) solely by increasing aircraft flying time?

F9 might try bringing back "night coach" flying on the East Coast. It used to be fairly popular on north-south routes After-9PM (in some cities, 10PM in others) departures were purely airframe utilization flying, so the revenue needed only to exceed variable costs of the trip plus some maintenance overhead to be considered a winner. A third off the daytime fare was typical.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25273 posts, RR: 85
Reply 36, posted (7 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 16943 times:
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Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 33):
DoT requires quarterly financial reports from all airlines with revenues over $20 million, whether privately owned or not.

To the DOT, yes, but because there is no public money involved they don't have to make them available to the public - unless they want to - they don't have to publish them to the media. The public can find it, sure, but it isn't handed on a plate.

It's already begun at Frontier - I haven't seen a monthly traffic report in the media since Indigo took over.

Quoting point2point (Reply 34):
At the same time, as per several sources, F9's NEOs orders will not start arriving until 2016, at the earliest.

Ah - last I heard it was a quarter earlier than 2016 and I assume they'll find a few more aircraft before then, a couple at least.

There's another A320 in April - N223FR.

The tricky part is to balance out the length of leases of used aircraft against the scheduled arrivals of the Neo, and to get aircraft at decent prices but reduced lease time. Lessors often charge more money for less length.

Quoting point2point (Reply 34):
Can there be enough time in the day to reduce the percentage of F9's DEN dependence any significant amount (let's say even 10%) solely by increasing aircraft flying time?

I don't think it is a priority at the moment. It's still possible they'll announce more DEN stuff for the summer.

The good news is that Indigo seems to have embraced TTN and - even better - embraced p2p's between major cities.

But the other good news is that Frontier is still embracing DEN - even if the Denver Post seems to have almost forgotten Frontier's existence.

Who knew about Frontier, Denver - and lacrosse, 'coz I surely didn't.

http://www.goairforcefalcons.com/spo...s/m-lacros/spec-rel/022014aab.html

"Air Force Heads to Frontier Airlines Face-Off Classic"

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25273 posts, RR: 85
Reply 37, posted (7 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 16973 times:
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Quoting mariner (Reply 36):
It's still possible they'll announce more DEN stuff for the summer.

That was quick - LOL:

Frontier To Announce 4 New Routes From Denver (by UNITED91 Feb 21 2014 in Civil Aviation)

 

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineFrontier14 From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 218 posts, RR: 0
Reply 38, posted (7 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 16873 times:

Quoting point2point (Reply 34):
http://news.flyfrontier.com/sites/fr...ss_kit/file/Fact_Sheet_12-4-13.pdf

it states the F9 operates more than 200 daily flights. Can we say that it's 207 (unless someone has a more accurate number) daily flights system-wide just for fun?

You are probably in the ball park. F9 as of recent has run as many as 240+ flights during certain weekdays and on Saturdays sometimes in the 160s.

Frontier 14


User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3150 posts, RR: 1
Reply 39, posted (7 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 16795 times:

For aviation fans around the greater TTN area the Trenton airport has posted the following invitation to thier Facebook page.

Tomorrow - February 22nd 2014 at 8AM there is a FREE McGuire Base Tour at 7:45AM to 1pm hosted by Skies as well. Want to come to either? Contact us via Private Message on this airport Page for details and we hope to see you there.

Meet up point for Base Tour is at Thunderbird Lanes parking lot at 7:45AM.

McGuire Tour Includes:
*Close Up and Cockpit Tours of a C17, KC-135 & a KC-10
*McGuire Tower Operations (Watch 2 Aircraft Takeoff also)
*Full Motion Training Simulator Tour
*RAPCON - Radar Tour
*Up Close to a Fully Working Military Base
*Talk to Military Personnel about future careers



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineFrontier14 From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 218 posts, RR: 0
Reply 40, posted (7 months 20 hours ago) and read 16648 times:

Does anyone know if Frontier has their own mechanics at TTN or is it contract? I have been unsuccessful in finding an answer so far. Thanks

Frontier 14


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25273 posts, RR: 85
Reply 41, posted (7 months 12 hours ago) and read 16562 times:
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Here's a nice wee surprise.

TTN-CLE was announced as 2 x weekly, to go 4 x weekly in late May.

TTN-BNA was announced as 3 x weekly - Monday, Wednesday, Friday - that was it.

Now, according to the website, it - TTN-BNA - goes to 4 x weekly with the addition of a Sunday flight from mid-June.  

mariner

[Edited 2014-02-22 19:52:23]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3150 posts, RR: 1
Reply 42, posted (6 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 16426 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 41):
TTN-BNA - goes to 4 x weekly with the addition of a Sunday flight from mid-June.

And a 1000 (10:00 A.M.) departure to boot. If the equipment allows they might want to back the new Sunday flight two weeks earlier to Sunday June 1 to support to two music festivals in Nashville CMA the week of June 5-8 and Bonnaroo in Manchester, TN the following week Thur-Sun. The Wednesdays prior and Mondays after each of two festivals are said to be BNA four busiest travel days of the year. You have quite a few straggler pax coming in the weekend prior. I see F9 has already priced the TTN-BNA-TTN flights strartegically on Wednesday June 4 and Monday June 9.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineJerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1998 posts, RR: 0
Reply 43, posted (6 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 16379 times:
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Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 42):
And a 1000 (10:00 A.M.) departure to boot.

And they moved the 630 and 730 am departures on Mon/Wed/Fri to 815am, I guess they did get my emails  



Frontier Early Returns Ascent Status| Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3150 posts, RR: 1
Reply 44, posted (6 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 16302 times:

Quoting Jerseyguy (Reply 43):
I guess they did get my emails

Who says suggestions don't work.   



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineJerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1998 posts, RR: 0
Reply 45, posted (6 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 16194 times:
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As of June 13th there are atleast 10 flights a day with 11 on Wed/Fri/Sun, better get the parking and the terminal expansion going.

[Edited 2014-02-23 21:46:26]


Frontier Early Returns Ascent Status| Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 46, posted (6 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 16086 times:

Quoting Jerseyguy (Reply 45):

As of June 13th there are atleast 10 flights a day with 11 on Wed/Fri/Sun, better get the parking and the terminal expansion going.

I wonder if F9 at TTN will surpass NK at ACY? In destinations served year-round, I'm sure, but NK has more frequencies to esp. to markets like FLL. I think NK keeps about 10 departures out of ACY.

[Edited 2014-02-24 09:07:43]

User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25273 posts, RR: 85
Reply 47, posted (6 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 16000 times:
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I think this is a first - Frontier is having a two day open house to recruit f/a's in the Trenton area:

http://planetprinceton.com/2014/02/2...ines-recruiting-flight-attendants/

"Frontier Airlines Recruiting Flight Attendants

Frontier Airlines will host two flight attendant recruiting seminars on March 7 and March 8 in West Windsor."


It doesn't say much for the rumours of a crew base at TTN because applicants must be prepared to relocate. It may be nothing more than bit of bright employment news for the young people of Trenton.

It would be interesting to know what attendance is like.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3150 posts, RR: 1
Reply 48, posted (6 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 15887 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 47):
It would be interesting to know what attendance is like.

The passport requirement will be the show stopper for many. It can take 4-6 weeks to receive a passport through normal channels. Unfortunately March 3 is not going to cut it. F9 or the agency they hired to run the hiring/recruitment event should have planned a little better. Young folk don't buy passports unless they live near Canada or Mexico and TTN is not exactly close to either.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineJerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1998 posts, RR: 0
Reply 49, posted (6 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 15855 times:
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Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 48):
The passport requirement will be the show stopper for many. It can take 4-6 weeks to receive a passport through normal channels. Unfortunately March 3 is not going to cut it. F9 or the agency they hired to run the hiring/recruitment event should have planned a little better. Young folk don't buy passports unless they live near Canada or Mexico and TTN is not exactly close to either.

Your right, most young people don't get passports as they don't travel much outside the country. I know I let my passport lapse and I'm not even in the age range your talking about. In the 10 years I had it I used it twice, once to go to London (thats why I got it) and then once to go to Vancouver to board an Alaskian cruise. Its possible its been on job boards and possibly advertised on the MCCC campus, they do have an avation program that trains at TTN, so they probably have contacts for the airport.



Frontier Early Returns Ascent Status| Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
User currently offlineFrontier14 From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 218 posts, RR: 0
Reply 50, posted (6 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 15841 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 48):
The passport requirement will be the show stopper for many. It can take 4-6 weeks to receive a passport through normal channels.

For those who may be selected the next class will probably start around the first week of April. It is my understanding that the class is four weeks. I think there will be sufficient time for those who really want the job to obtain their passports.

Frontier 14


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25273 posts, RR: 85
Reply 51, posted (6 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 15828 times:
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Quoting Frontier14 (Reply 50):
For those who may be selected the next class will probably start around the first week of April. It is my understanding that the class is four weeks. I think there will be sufficient time for those who really want the job to obtain their passports.

It's never been an issue at other Open Houses at other places - so many applied they've often had to turn people away, and all those accepted had passports.

  

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinen75jyv From United States of America, joined Sep 2013, 23 posts, RR: 0
Reply 52, posted (6 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 15710 times:

Quoting Jerseyguy (Reply 49):
Your right, most young people don't get passports as they don't travel much outside the country.

I think you may underestimate the number of young people with passports in the greater Mercer County area. Given our proximity to major international gateways in EWR, JFK, and PHL, and the diverse population, opportunities for travel are common, whether through school trips or family vacations. Among my own kids' cohort, there was a lot of international travel.

Brian Hughes is quoted in this morning's Trenton Times:

"“Mercer County has one of the highest-educated pools of workers nationally from which Frontier can draw, and I’m confident they will find well-qualified potential employees here,” Mercer County Executive Brian Hughes said."

http://bit.ly/1hlzl9d

Quoting mariner (Reply 51):
It's never been an issue at other Open Houses at other places - so many applied they've often had to turn people away, and all those accepted had passports.

There certainly are a fair number of unemployed or underemployed young people who may jump at this chance.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 48):
The passport requirement will be the show stopper for many. It can take 4-6 weeks to receive a passport through normal channels.

If one were highly motivated, you can make an appointment at either the NYC or Philadelphia passport office for one day service. You need proof of imminent travel (refundable ticket would work), though in the past, when we've had to get renewals in Philadelphia, we've never been asked to show a ticket.


User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3150 posts, RR: 1
Reply 53, posted (6 months 4 weeks ago) and read 15658 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 51):
It's never been an issue at other Open Houses at other places -

Perhaps they will extend the passport requirement through to the actual date of hire. I liken this to having to provide college transcripts to a HR hiring authority before actually starting to work. e.g. you don't have to have it at the time of application but would have to produce it prior to the actual start date. Then it becomes a moot point.

In 2009 when the new passport requirement went into effect to enter Canada. The stats showed roughly 75% of Alaskans didn't have passports. Most being native Alaskans and young people.

Quoting n75jyv (Reply 52):
"“Mercer County has one of the highest-educated pools of workers nationally from which Frontier can draw, and I’m confident they will find well-qualified potential employees here,” Mercer County Executive Brian Hughes said."

I don't dispute Brian's comments but it is a canned Chamber of Commerce response

Quoting n75jyv (Reply 52):
There certainly are a fair number of unemployed or underemployed young people who may jump at this chance. That is true and today's young adults love to travel.
Quoting n75jyv (Reply 52):
If one were highly motivated, you can make an appointment at either the NYC or Philadelphia passport office for one day service.

That's a lot of money on the chance of getting hired. I wouldn't do it. I read something recently which lead me to believe the normal ten year passport fee increase either this year or last and is now closer to $200.00. I'd hate to think of what expidited one day service would cost.

I wish all who are interested and apply the very best. I just think it could have been timed a little better.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineJerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1998 posts, RR: 0
Reply 54, posted (6 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 15545 times:
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Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 53):
I read something recently which lead me to believe the normal ten year passport fee increase either this year or last and is now closer to $200.00. I'd hate to think of what expidited one day service would cost.

Still alot of money but not $200 Passports are $135 for a new passport and $60 to expedite so with the expedite fee its $195.



Frontier Early Returns Ascent Status| Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
User currently offlineFrontier14 From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 218 posts, RR: 0
Reply 55, posted (6 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 15486 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 53):
I wish all who are interested and apply the very best. I just think it could have been timed a little better.

Gent, if the recent F9 flight attendant job fairs in DEN and MCO are any indication, the TTN one will be too. The aura of flying around the country and other countries is still a draw to many. Perhaps, the glamour disappears for some once they get diverted or miss a child's birthday due to a mechanical etc.... But with 50+ flights a week now out of TTN, there is a need to have a staffing presence there locally to cover illness and the unexpected flight changes.

Who knows, there may even be some FA's who are willing to relocate from MDW/ORD and DEN to work out of TTN.

Frontier 14


User currently offlineJerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1998 posts, RR: 0
Reply 56, posted (6 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 15437 times:
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Quoting Jerseyguy (Reply 45):
As of June 13th there are atleast 10 flights a day with 11 on Wed/Fri/Sun, better get the parking and the terminal expansion going.

Over on the other major travel board, some one wrote that they were having problems again with parking issues. Travelers are now illegally parking in the cell phone lot. While it is a busy time of year (Spring Break) for airlines, after the season is done they will be moving from 49 to 59 flights a week and its not going to get better. They allready can't handle the volume and in two months it gets even worse. I hope that airport actually has the budget to reopen the remote lots without having to get the board of freeholders to vote on it. There just a small amount better then congress when it comes to getting things done. John Cimino is Harry Reid and Lucy Walter is Nancy Pelosi  



Frontier Early Returns Ascent Status| Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25273 posts, RR: 85
Reply 57, posted (6 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 15377 times:
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Quoting Jerseyguy (Reply 56):
Over on the other major travel board, some one wrote that they were having problems again with parking issues. Travelers are now illegally parking in the cell phone lot. While it is a busy time of year (Spring Break) for airlines, after the season is done they will be moving from 49 to 59 flights a week and its not going to get better.

They are - slowly - moving ahead with it. This is an account of an address to the Freeholders about the airport - with some fairly mind-boggling passenger numbers, now and planned for the future:

http://www.trentonian.com/general-ne...county-pleased-with-airport-growth

"Mercer County pleased with airport growth

“As good stewards of taxpayer money and to spend the money in a measured and thoughtful manner, we are using the experience we gained and we are preparing for the future as Frontier continues to grow,” said Mercer County Department of Transportation Director Aaron Watson.

Frontier currently shuffles 375,000 passengers annually to and from the regional airport. The low-cost airline is projecting an increase in flights and destinations, bringing an anticipated 875,000 passengers every year through the airport by 2017, according to Watson.

“Frontier Airlines has been overwhelmingly successful at the Trenton-Mercer Airport,” said Watson, who pointed out the carrier’s rapid trajectory, increasing flights from two flights a day in November 2012 to over 50 a week by this April. “They are expecting to launch more flights in May — 60 a week and 70 flights per week by June,” the Director said.

The ordinance asks for just over $8 million secured through grants and an additional $5 million matched by the county.

Although the county has been asked to foot the bill on select lower cost improvements like a covered passenger walkway and an improvement to the security camera system, the bulk of the expense or just over $6 million, will be allocated to improve the passenger terminal and create more parking spaces."


I like the reference to "marginally larger planes" too.  

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2758 posts, RR: 1
Reply 58, posted (6 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 15374 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 57):
375,000 passengers annually to and from the regional airport. The low-cost airline is projecting an increase in flights and destinations, bringing an anticipated 875,000 passengers every year through the airport by 2017,

Wow!

It seems that both TTN and F9 have some ambition here, projecting a 2 1/3 increase over the next three years. So if they're now at about and average of 65 flights weekly, that means they're looking at about 150 weekly flights, or an average of 21 daily flights.

Although I haven't been to TTN, from pix here and taking at face value what is being written on this, it seems that TTN and F9 are going to have their work cut out for them over the next three years at this airport to make that happen, eh?

NIMBYs, anyone?

 


User currently offlineJerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1998 posts, RR: 0
Reply 59, posted (6 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 15329 times:
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Quoting point2point (Reply 58):
It seems that both TTN and F9 have some ambition here, projecting a 2 1/3 increase over the next three years. So if they're now at about and average of 65 flights weekly, that means they're looking at about 150 weekly flights, or an average of 21 daily flights.

Although I haven't been to TTN, from pix here and taking at face value what is being written on this, it seems that TTN and F9 are going to have their work cut out for them over the next three years at this airport to make that happen, eh?

NIMBYs, anyone?


If this is indeed what Frontier and Mercer County intend to do I think they would be planning on doing it via a new terminal as the required modification and expansion of the current terminal would be a waste of money. Not that goverment officals havent been known to waste money but I just think they would prefer to have a nice shiny terminal to say look what I did.  .

As it stands now I think it has room for expansion in the existing terminal building for about 90-95 weekly flights, only 20 flights away from the June count of 73 weekly flights. Even the current proposed flight levels for June, I think require an expansion of the gate area to be adequate. But given their track record of how fast they act, I suspect we'll see a repeat of the old gate area senerio with people sitting on the floor or on top of hard sided carry-ons for atleast 2-3 months.

As far as NIMBYs go, I think they have been defeated a bit (not out of the picture by any means), there Facebook page has been pretty quiet and hadn't seen any updates from Mid-November to Late January when St. Augustine has been announced. They still haven't commented on the addition of MKE,STL and MSP. In addition they sent a letter to the FAA regional office regarding their noise complaint and have not posted anything which leads me to believe that they either didn't get a response or the response was not in their favor. I think the group is pretty small due to the lack of participation on the website and facebook page. Their current plan of attack looks to be trying to get fellow anti-airport expansion Freeholder Lucylle "Lucy" Walters to try to delay and stop whatever she can. Even though according to her bio she lives in Ewing, she has ties to the Yardley area by being a special education teacher at Pennsbury High School (the public high school that serves Yardley and the surrounding area). She is also Vice President of the PEA (Pennsbury Education Association). I think TTN will be fine for now, until they announce plans for a new terminal. I believe this will reenergize and likely grow the BRRAM NIMBYs.



Frontier Early Returns Ascent Status| Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
User currently offlineJerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1998 posts, RR: 0
Reply 60, posted (6 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 15306 times:
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Its appears I may have jumped the gun and Mercer County Executives are responding quickly to the parking situation. For that I apologize for my comments, although in the past the urgency shown has been inadequate at times.

Quoting Star Ledger Article (Reply 59):
Tonight, 1,222 vehicles were parked in the airport’s lot, which has only 1,150 spots, Watson said.“Right now we’re through the ears,” he said. “The time is now. We need to build parking lots.”
Temporary parking structures are being explored, including a matting material that can be placed over grass.
Cars can park on the mat and grass can grow through it, but if parking on the area is discontinued, the mat can be rolled up and used elsewhere, Watson said. The mat could allow for an additional 650 spaces, Watson said.
http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2...cts_traffic_to_more_than_doub.html

Additionally there is supposedly a study regarding aircraft noise being performed by the FAA. Interesting we haven't heard anything from BRRAM. Perhaps the airport agreed not to fight a study if they would keep quiet.



Frontier Early Returns Ascent Status| Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3150 posts, RR: 1
Reply 61, posted (6 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 15084 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 57):
They are expecting to launch more flights in May — 60 a week and 70 flights per week by June,” the Director said.

Do the new service announced at TTN account for the 70 weekly flights F9 will be flying in June or should we expect more. Citing the rule of averages that's ten flights a day which to my understanding is what F9 is flying now (except on Sunday). I understand Sunday is the slowest day of the week with less than a handful of flights. If TTN ever gets their LAS flight that's gonna have to change.

Quoting mariner (Reply 57):
Frontier currently shuffles 375,000 passengers annually to and from the regional airport. The low-cost airline is projecting an increase in flights and destinations

It seems F9 has found their Juneau at TTN. Those numbers are about the annual number of enplanements the FAA reports for JNU. I have seen the YoY figures as high at 410,000.00. The use of the word shuffled is new and an interesting descriptive which captures both in and out pax at TTN.

Quoting point2point (Reply 58):
that means they're looking at about 150 weekly flights, or an average of 21 daily flights.

For clarification does the 150 number by 2017 include departures and arrivals?



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineJerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1998 posts, RR: 0
Reply 62, posted (6 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 15042 times:
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Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 61):
Do the new service announced at TTN account for the 70 weekly flights F9 will be flying in June or should we expect more. Citing the rule of averages that's ten flights a day which to my understanding is what F9 is flying now (except on Sunday). I understand Sunday is the slowest day of the week with less than a handful of flights. If TTN ever gets their LAS flight that's gonna have to change.

No Saturday is the winner and if by handful you mean the number of fingers on a hand then yes its a little less than that at 9. TTN Departures- Sun-10 Mon-10 Tue-10 Wed-11 Thur-10 Fri-12 Sat-9 Total-72

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 61):
For clarification does the 150 number by 2017 include departures and arrivals?

Nope, just departures as of June the number will already be 72 and according to the article its expected to double.

I went to TTN today and I swear parking at the airport is so volatile. Yesterday they claimed that they were overflowing with 1225 cars in a 1150 car lot but today even though Lot 1 (closest to the terminal) was filled Lot 2 had plenty of parking. Though I don't doubt they had that many cars there at that point as there were illegally parked cars all over Lot 1 (I counted 26) and the entire cell phone section of lot 3 (10-12 spaces) was full with unattended cars and I don't know if all the cars in the employee spots (same lot) were actual employees. I shot a video in lot 1 of the cars I saw illegally parked (I assume some of them left)

http://youtu.be/GeP5PEKPDEU


[Edited 2014-02-26 15:32:34]


Frontier Early Returns Ascent Status| Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
User currently offlineJerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1998 posts, RR: 0
Reply 63, posted (6 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 14943 times:
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From Town Topics a Princeton area community newspaper
http://www.towntopics.com/wordpress/...thriving-at-trentonmercer-airport/

On the lighter side of things, heres 3 quotes that are just amusing especially when it comes from out of Daniel Shurz.mouth complete with a British accent.

#1 Refering to TTN "“We love that this is an old, cheap airport,”
#2 While other commercial airlines have tried to make a go of service at the airfield in the past, none were able to succeed. “The last one was Eastwind in 1995. They picked a good airport, they just didn’t know what they were doing,” said Mr. Shurz

(Well excuse me, Daniel Shurz apparently thinks Eastwind management were bloody idiots)

My personal favorite (imagine with the British Accent)
"Asked whether Frontier flights are included on discount websites like Priceline, Mr. Shurz said “There is only one website you need to know: Flyfrontier.com. You get certain benefits when you book through our website, and you get smoking hot fares.”

Flyfrontier.com: Home of the "Smoking Hot Fares"  

[Edited 2014-02-26 20:36:20]


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User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2758 posts, RR: 1
Reply 64, posted (6 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 14932 times:

Quoting Jerseyguy (Reply 63):
smoking hot fares

Is this now Colorado Freudian slip talk?

It is a good one.......


  


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25273 posts, RR: 85
Reply 65, posted (6 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 14944 times:
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Quoting Jerseyguy (Reply 63):
From Town Topics a Princeton area community newspaper

I liked this quote:

"In January, not historically the best month, we filled 91.5 percent of our seats out of Trenton.”

 

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3150 posts, RR: 1
Reply 66, posted (6 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 14922 times:

Quoting Jerseyguy (Reply 62):
I went to TTN today and I swear parking at the airport is so volatile.

In Alaska we have combat fishing. In N.J. combat parking I suppose. I liken it to going to a shopping mall around the greater D.C. area the day before Christmas. There's no joy there.

Quoting Jerseyguy (Reply 62):
TTN Departures- Sun-10 Mon-10 Tue-10 Wed-11 Thur-10 Fri-12 Sat-9 Total-72

Okay thanks for keeping us up to date. The TTN Facebook page lead me to believe there three flights on Sunday (less than a handful) It may have been Saturday.

Quoting Jerseyguy (Reply 63):
Flyfrontier.com: Home of the "Smoking Hot Fares"

There's F9 new mission statement. From a leadership and management perspective I like # 2. Daniel has a potential second life as a stand-up comedian after the airline biz.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineJerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1998 posts, RR: 0
Reply 67, posted (6 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 14915 times:
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Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 66):
It may have been Saturday.

Currently there are only 5 flights leaving on Saturday, all of which are FL fligjhts (FLL, MCO X2, TPA, RSW), perhaps thats what the FB page was refering to.



Frontier Early Returns Ascent Status| Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
User currently offlineJerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1998 posts, RR: 0
Reply 68, posted (6 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 14901 times:
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My brother has a client in little rock and it wasn;t till recently that AA offerred a LGA nonstop to LIT. I can't figure out the PDEW on my phone for PHL and NYC to LIT. Could TTN ever work. There are no nonstops except the LGA on a mid sized RJ (145 I think) for PHL, EWR, LGA, JFK..


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User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2758 posts, RR: 1
Reply 69, posted (6 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 14903 times:

Quoting Jerseyguy (Reply 68):
I can't figure out the PDEW on my phone for PHL and NYC to LIT.

NYC-LIT = 86 PDEW
PHL-LIT = 30 PDEW

Q3 2013.....

Quoting Jerseyguy (Reply 68):
Could TTN ever work.

I think that this is much too small a market...... besides, I think Bill and Hillary can get a private jet whenever they want.... that is, if they want to ever go back to LIT......

 


User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3150 posts, RR: 1
Reply 70, posted (6 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 14739 times:

Not to take away from the good work several posters have made to keep us updated about F9 flights at TTN. I was playing with http://www.flightradar24.com/airport/ttn/departures. Flightaware.com has been my tracker of choice; I may have to switch to flightradar24.com a little more often after seeing this.

If you type in TTN in the search perimeters and them press the blue dot which represents the airport; TTN in this case or any other airport you may want to check; it will display the daily flight schedule for all carriers. The TTN schedule is easy on the eyes in that F9 is the only carrier. You may have to reduce the overall screen font size using the - + for the blue airport dot to populate.

The daily flight schedule can be further broke down by arrivals and departures. The schedule also shows delayed flight(s) Viewers can expand or decrease earlier arrivals and departures later in the day. I did notice when I expanded earlier arrivals to see this mornings departures it posted two late arriving flights from last night. It uses the 24 hour military clock for lack of a better term.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineJerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1998 posts, RR: 0
Reply 71, posted (6 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 14665 times:
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Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 70):
Flightaware.com has been my tracker of choice; I may have to switch to flightradar24.com a little more often after seeing this.

Thank you for the adfditional resource but I prefer flightstats.com, you can see the previous day (all of it not just 24hrs before) and can also see whats scheduled up to 2 days in the future. For bigger airports like PHL it will only show an hours flight information at a time due to the vast amount of flights but for TTN it shows all day. Frankly I have had my share of problems with flightradar24,com but it is very useful to get information on the registration of a certain flight where flightstats and flightaware are not.

http://www.flightstats.com/go/FlightStatus/flightStatusByAirport.do
enter TTN, change dates if needed and change to arrivals if needed.

Another good resource incase you want to know why all the delayed flights is the NWS Observations for TTN
http://www.crh.noaa.gov/data/obhistory/KTTN.html
(just change the airport code if you want another airport like KSLC)

For the record, I believe F9 requires 1.5 mile visability to take off or land. Speaking of visability and TTN, I swear TTN is the east coasts version of SFO or SEA when it comes to fog. I'll see delayed flights and look at the conditions and it will say fog and reduced visabilities. Look out my window a mere 30 miles to the east and cloudy no fog. PHL seems to get some fog too. Both are on the Deleware river so perhaps its "River effect fog" like CHI/CLE gets lake effect snow

[Edited 2014-02-27 13:06:56]


Frontier Early Returns Ascent Status| Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
User currently offlineJerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1998 posts, RR: 0
Reply 72, posted (6 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 14560 times:
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BRRAM still not happy even with the noise study  

From Facebook: "Please see article below: If residents of PA don't think this is going to negatively impact your life-- don't be fooled. BRRAM does not want to shut down the airport. We do want to make sure that they are abiding by all National Environmental Protection Act (NEPA) legislation--which they are not. The airport is still talking about expansion, and still has NOT performed a required Environmental Impact Study/Statement REQUIRED BY LAW.......stay tuned!"



Frontier Early Returns Ascent Status| Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
User currently offlineJerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1998 posts, RR: 0
Reply 73, posted (6 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 14468 times:
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This will probably give a bit more ammo to the NIMBYs because some of the tax increase is attributed to the airport but really when you look at it, 3.5% (1.5% of it being pension and healthcare related) is pretty good for New Jersey. Hopefully that will make the additional argument a bit less effective.

Budget proposed to Mercer County freeholders includes tax increase
http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2...holders_includes_tax_increase.html



Frontier Early Returns Ascent Status| Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3150 posts, RR: 1
Reply 74, posted (6 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 14363 times:

"$13 million in improvements this year, including more parking and improving a runway to allow Frontier Airlines’ planes to fly to destinations across the country."

I accept "improving" the runway to mean lengthen or extend the runway.

Quoting Jerseyguy (Reply 72):
BRRAM still not happy even with the noise study

As it relates to a a new terminal or rehabbing the existing terminal' I suspect the latter will be in play at least for the foresseable future.

I was talking to a federal Civil Engineer from my past who is versed in NEPA. He said any grandfather clause TTN may currently be operating under would expire if a new terminal building is constructed and "could" require a re-visit if the existing terminal is rehabbed and the costs are significant. I asked him what constitutes significant; thinking it might be 51%; he said no it has more to do with the architects estimate at the time the building permit is issued. Which leads me to believe TTN may be leaning toward multiple expansions where the construction cost can be better controlled up or down. Keeping in mind new construction can have overruns.

One tidbit I found interesting if the airport wanted to rehab the airport by 80% they could do so in phases and not exceed the "significant" factor. e.g. If they wanted to rehab 80% they could do so in two 40% increments the second in three to five years. This loophole or sorts is directly tied to way construction budget dollars are issued and managed usually across two years cycles. I suspect this is why there has to be at least a two year hiatus between rehab projects.

This can be very dangerous if sealed bidding procedures are used in the actual award as to not show favoritism or even the appearance thereof by trying to keep cost lower.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineJerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1998 posts, RR: 0
Reply 75, posted (6 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 14310 times:
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Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 74):

I accept "improving" the runway to mean lengthen or extend the runw

The best explanation of how longer flights will be accomplished I've seen is from a poster on Flyertalk
"On a short runway your takeoff weight is limited by what is called the "runway limit". One of the factors which can reduce runway limit is obstacles in the departure path. You have to be light enough so that if an engine fails at takeoff decision speed you can continue the takeoff on the remaining engine and still make the required clearance over the obstacles in the departure path. By clearing out the obstacles you are increasing the amount of weight that you can carry off that runway."

They may also be talking about a rehab of a Taxiway, I believe there are still some taxiways that need rehabbing including changing of lights that are at the end of useful service. So I think its a reporter oversimplfying it or not understanding what is being told to them.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 74):
I was talking to a federal Civil Engineer from my past who is versed in NEPA. He said any grandfather clause TTN may currently be operating under would expire if a new terminal building is constructed and "could" require a re-visit if the existing terminal is rehabbed and the costs are significant.

This could be why the their reaction to Frontier's expansion is so minimalist, just enough to get by. Not wanting to have the improvements labeled "significant". Though I am interested to know what triggered this mini noise study (not a full blown EIS I don't believe).

[Edited 2014-02-28 09:10:10]


Frontier Early Returns Ascent Status| Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
User currently offlinen75jyv From United States of America, joined Sep 2013, 23 posts, RR: 0
Reply 76, posted (6 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 14289 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 74):
I accept "improving" the runway to mean lengthen or extend the runway.

I think the runway improvements still relate to the reduction of the tree and cell phone obstacles on the 24 end. Based on what I have been able to find on the web, the EMAS installations do effectively add runway length, though I don't have a clear understanding what that practically means for A319 or A320 needs.

With the completion of the 6/24 EMAS installations, I am curious as to how a runway extension project is going to be economically practical, both in terms of cost and probable impact on runway closure or length restriction during construction. What length do they need? 500 feet adequate, or do they need more?

Can they, for example, build an extension on the 24 end, beyond the EMAS, relocate the ILS, build a new EMAS foundation, transfer the existing EMAS materials to the new foundation, and then cover over and connect the extension to the existing runway? I think the extension could be built without too much impact, with closure (for F9) only during the final connection.

A 6 end extension would require a lot of earth to be brought in, given the downward slope (or an expensive Madeira (FNC) approach using pylons). The 24 end extension would require some earth, and an easy relocation of Scotch Road. I think 16/24 extension is out of the question.

And maybe Yardley folks would be less troubled if the extension went toward Ewing  

I am really curious to hear the results of the noise study. Living near the airport, I continue to think the noisiest flights are the corporate jets.


User currently offlineJerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1998 posts, RR: 0
Reply 77, posted (6 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 14305 times:
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Quoting n75jyv (Reply 76):
I am really curious to hear the results of the noise study. Living near the airport, I continue to think the noisiest flights are the corporate jets.

  

(What, you live near the airport and your life hasn't been impacted to cataclysmic proportions with your house shaking and the walls feeling like they are closing in. Its not causing pregnant women to go into premature labor with all the trauma from the big bad monster planes?).

Its official Trenton will be a crew base by July with 50 flight attendants
http://www.digitaljournal.com/pr/1765475

[Edited 2014-02-28 09:41:17]


Frontier Early Returns Ascent Status| Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
User currently offlinen75jyv From United States of America, joined Sep 2013, 23 posts, RR: 0
Reply 78, posted (6 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 14262 times:

Quoting Jerseyguy (Reply 75):
The best explanation of how longer flights will be accomplished I've seen is from a poster on Flyertalk
"On a short runway your takeoff weight is limited by what is called the "runway limit". One of the factors which can reduce runway limit is obstacles in the departure path. You have to be light enough so that if an engine fails at takeoff decision speed you can continue the takeoff on the remaining engine and still make the required clearance over the obstacles in the departure path. By clearing out the obstacles you are increasing the amount of weight that you can carry off that runway."

Thanks, that helps clear things up. So those NIMBYs don't have to worry about A319s screaming over their homes at low altitude, except for that occasional engine failure  
Quoting Jerseyguy (Reply 77):
(What, you live near the airport and your life hasn't been impacted to cataclysmic proportions with your house shaking and the walls feeling like they are closing in. Its not causing pregnant women to go into premature labor with all the trauma from the big bad monster planes?).

The only thing that can shake our house and rattle the windows are the helicopters (Blackhawks, NJSP A139, and various corporate), and that 2011 earthquake. I can sometimes hear the deep rumble of a takeoff, and sometimes what I believe is thrust reverse on landing (based on timing of when the plane overflies us on approach and flightaware), but it can't all be blamed on F9. Perhaps I'll change my tune in a few years when F9 doubles its service  


User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3150 posts, RR: 1
Reply 79, posted (6 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 14199 times:

Quoting n75jyv (Reply 76):
Can they, for example, build an extension on the 24 end, beyond the EMAS, relocate the ILS, build a new EMAS foundation, transfer the existing EMAS materials to the new foundation, and then cover over and connect the extension to the existing runway?

I'll do my best to let you know this later this Summer. The stomping grounds where I spent quite a bit of time CKV is a general aviation regional airport are reworking their runways for FAR Part 139 certification which will allow regualary schedule ops. My last comments with the airport board supervisor lead me to belive sometimes things move at a snails pace at the FAA.

The airport must have fell out of FAA compliance after 1982 when Ozark quit flying here from STL and SDF if memory serves me three or four days a week. On that note I guess Ozark was the first ULCC flying less than daily service. A model of their own time.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineJerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1998 posts, RR: 0
Reply 80, posted (6 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 14166 times:
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I have no problems with taking BRRAM seriously with a spokesperson like this  


(Yes, this really is their spokesperson and this is currently her Facebook profile photo)



Frontier Early Returns Ascent Status| Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
User currently offlineFrontier14 From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 218 posts, RR: 0
Reply 81, posted (6 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 14071 times:

Quoting Jerseyguy (Reply 80):

My, my, my the photo is not complimentary. We can now understand a bit of the anti TTN flavor that lives across the river. Perhaps the overhead flights had this effect??? Anyway, thanks for sharing.

Frontier 14


User currently offlineJerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1998 posts, RR: 0
Reply 82, posted (6 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 14021 times:
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Quoting Frontier14 (Reply 81):
My, my, my the photo is not complimentary. We can now understand a bit of the anti TTN flavor that lives across the river.

Just to be clear she is making a face in that photo but she did make it her profile photo..so.. The organization (BRRAM) Facebook page only has 46 likes so that tells you something too.

Quoting Frontier14 (Reply 81):
Perhaps the overhead flights had this effect???

  



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User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2758 posts, RR: 1
Reply 83, posted (6 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 13960 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 32):

TTN/Trenton-Mercer-Airport" target="_blank">http://skyvector.com/airport/TTN/Trenton-Mercer-Airport shows potential obstacles at least on the airport property. If there are cell or utility towers they are not listed and could be further down line.

"Obstacles: 87 ft Tree 2120 ft from runway, 790 ft right of center RWY 06; 185 FT Lighted pole: 100 FT From threshold 500 FT R. 72 ft Tree 1610 ft from runway, 350 ft left of center"
Quoting Jerseyguy (Reply 75):
factors which can reduce runway limit is obstacles in the departure path.
Quoting n75jyv (Reply 76):
A 6 end extension would require a lot of earth to be brought in, given the downward slope (or an expensive Madeira (FNC) approach using pylons). The 24 end extension would require some earth,

As I was looking at the map of the runways at TTN to get some perspective on all of this, I noticed that the 6 end of the runway has an elevation of 160 feet, and the 24 end of the runway has an elevation of 192 feet, a slope of 32 feet (I don't want to do any intricate math here if there's another way to state this otherwise) for the runway. I just have to ask this, and if anyone would know the answer to satisfy my own curiosity here about this, so here goes..... can the fact that besides being a shorter runway, can this declining (or heightening) slope effect range performance? My current thinking is that probably not, a lot of runways are sloped, but they are usually longer as well...... but maybe one can learn something new everyday.

Quoting Jerseyguy (Reply 80):

I don't know Adam from ant here, but just sayin' that sometimes we need to be careful as to whom we underestimate.....

 

[Edited 2014-02-28 20:33:02]

User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25273 posts, RR: 85
Reply 84, posted (6 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 13922 times:
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Jerseyguy talked about the new crew base at TTN in the other thread, but the press release might be useful here:

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/03/prweb11626737.htm

"Frontier Airlines Announces New Crew Base to Open at Trenton-Mercer Airport"

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3150 posts, RR: 1
Reply 85, posted (6 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 13693 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 84):
"Frontier Airlines Announces New Crew Base to Open at Trenton-Mercer Airport"

You almost have to think a pilot base at TTN can be too far away. There are what three F/A per flight and two pilots.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineJerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1998 posts, RR: 0
Reply 86, posted (6 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 13676 times:
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Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 85):
You almost have to think a pilot base at TTN can be too far away. There are what three F/A per flight and two pilots.

You read my flyertalk post apparently re the posting of the FA base
"Bad News for the SpringHill Suites by Marriott EWING PRINCETON SOUTH, guess they still have the pilots until they get a base here."

[Edited 2014-03-02 08:16:18]


Frontier Early Returns Ascent Status| Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
User currently offlinen75jyv From United States of America, joined Sep 2013, 23 posts, RR: 0
Reply 87, posted (6 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 13553 times:

Now someone is worried about bird strikes in a letter to the editor of the Trenton Times:

Describing our local population of geese, migratory birds, and Frontier wild creatures visible from a park about 4 miles away from the airport:

"....It’s a big sky out there, but it’s fraught with danger. We can’t have forgotten the incredibly lucky landing in the Hudson River, when the heroic pilot Chesley B. “Sully” Sullivan saved the lives of passengers and crew after his plane ran into a flock of geese and lost both engines.

Frontier is asking for longer and lower flight paths to Trenton-Mercer Airport (“Frontier adds Midwest cities, eyes longer flights,” Feb. 20). Does that sound like a good idea to you?"

http://bit.ly/1hDrjZy

It is those long distance flights paths that really concern me  

Sure, we are in a migratory fly way, and I see a lot of birds, including large vultures, so there is a risk. How big?


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25273 posts, RR: 85
Reply 88, posted (6 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 13538 times:
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Quoting n75jyv (Reply 87):
Describing our local population of geese, migratory birds, and Frontier wild creatures visible from a park about 4 miles away from the airport:

Hmmm. The worst bird strike Frontier ever had was was taking off from Kansas City - MCI - more than 1000 miles from LGA:

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_13792733

"Bird strike in engine forces Denver-bound jet to return to Kansas City"

I'm not sure what that says about TTN.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineJerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1998 posts, RR: 0
Reply 89, posted (6 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 13498 times:
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Quoting n75jyv (Reply 87):
Sure, we are in a migratory fly way, and I see a lot of birds, including large vultures, so there is a risk. How big?

To be clear the home that Mr. Wood owns in Lawerence Township is not near a flight path, however he may visit Mercer Meadows County Park where the bird congrate. The bird strike that took out both engines on US 1549 (The Miracle on the Hudson) happened at 3200 ft. Both engines were lost, What are the odds of losing both engines in a bird strike, I doubt they are that great. If necessary especially since the airport and the park are both owned by Mercer County, there are non lethal ways birds can be kept away from the park especially in areas along the flight path. Perhaps this is the reason that Mr. Wood is concerned, perhaps he is a bird watcher and uses Mercer Meadows park.

In case your wondering where the writer of the letter lives exactly: http://www.city-data.com/mercer-coun...Lawn-Park-Avenue-3.html#prop_64063 (Peter R. Wood)

[Edited 2014-03-02 16:02:34]


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User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3150 posts, RR: 1
Reply 90, posted (6 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 13393 times:

Quoting n75jyv (Reply 87):
Describing our local population of geese, migratory birds, and Frontier wild creatures visible from a park about 4 miles away from the airport:

Does that include snowbirds migrating to Florida?



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineJerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1998 posts, RR: 0
Reply 91, posted (6 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 13415 times:
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Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 90):
Does that include snowbirds migrating to Florida?

LOL

BTW I created a unoffical website for TTN with detailed information and news. If your in this thread odds are you are very interested in Trenton Mercer, so I feel it is appropriate to mention 1 time only (there are no ads I don't make a dime on this site)

www.trentonmercerairport.info



Frontier Early Returns Ascent Status| Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2758 posts, RR: 1
Reply 92, posted (6 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 13376 times:

Quoting Jerseyguy (Reply 91):
BTW I created a unoffical website for TTN with detailed information and news.

Wow!

Checked out the website, and I'll only mention it once as well..... but if you created this.... you did an EXCELLENT job. It's easy to use, simple for the eye (which this from me is a highest form of compliment) and from a quick one-over with it, I'm assuming that all of the info about TTN that is needed is right there....

GOOD JOB!

 


User currently offlineJerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1998 posts, RR: 0
Reply 93, posted (6 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 13351 times:
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Quoting point2point (Reply 92):
Checked out the website, and I'll only mention it once as well..... but if you created this.... you did an EXCELLENT job. It's easy to use, simple for the eye (which this from me is a highest form of compliment) and from a quick one-over with it, I'm assuming that all of the info about TTN that is needed is right there....

Thank you

At this point, I would probably think it best to confine all comments to me via PM or the email on the site as to not have warrant any intervention from a moderator.

Interesting business article (its behind a paywall but NJBiz is offering a free 8 week trial no credit card required) the mere fact that it suggests that Trenton could be an option for business travelers is intriguing

http://www.njbiz.com/article/2014030...es-business-travelers-a-new-option

From the article
To the delight of Hughes and others in the county, Frontier's success thus far hasn't been limited to the airline's boardrooms in Denver. For instance, the three hotels that sit closest to the airport have been reporting increased traffic, Hughes said.....While Frontier is the only carrier at the airport right now, it may not stay that way for long, especially if service stays strong. Because Trenton accepts FAA funding, Hughes said it has limited say in who can and cannot fly there.

Good to see the local airport hotels (all within 2 miles) are seeing an increase in traffic. I'm not sure I'm buying the whole F9 won't be the only one for long. Who's coming G4??

[Edited 2014-03-02 22:22:02]

[Edited 2014-03-02 22:23:15]


Frontier Early Returns Ascent Status| Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 94, posted (6 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 13234 times:

Quoting Jerseyguy (Reply 93):
I'm not sure I'm buying the whole F9 won't be the only one for long. Who's coming G4??

I doubt WN, NK, UA or AA/US would have interest in TTN.
WN-not interested in low service to small airports.
NK-already at ACY and PHL.
UA and US have hubs not too far.

Maybe B6, however, since it does limited flying out of alternate airports of New York (HPN, SWF) and Boston/Massachusetts (PVD, ORH) and TTN is an alternate airport of the NY greater region.

Perhaps it would consider TTN-FLL as F9 is light in that route, and this could be a substitute for B6 flying PHL-FLL while still appealing to the EWR catchment area as well where it has a customerbase. I know many find the PHL-So. America fares on AA to be high, and seek options up by EWR. So, Philly pax would find it easier seeking the TTN-FLL-Central/So. America destination.

I'm not sure if B6 would consider BOS-TTN since BOS-EWR might already be viewed as a gateway into Central NJ.

G4 is another possbility although it didn't go into ACY, an NK airport, so I'm not sure it'd have interest in TTN, now an F9 airport. It went into ISP, a WN airport, only with service to a market where WN was light on service. Plus, it services ABE.

DL has been increasing on P2P routes as well, but I'd think DL interest would a be somewhat a slim possibility.

[Edited 2014-03-03 08:59:48]

User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25273 posts, RR: 85
Reply 95, posted (6 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 13201 times:
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Good editorial about the airport's growth:

http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/...h_frontier_airlines_expansion.html

"Editorial: Trenton-Mercer Airport growth must keep pace with Frontier Airlines expansion"

There isn't a lot we don't already know, but it is a good summation of where things stand.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineJerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1998 posts, RR: 0
Reply 96, posted (6 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 13184 times:
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Quoting Flytravel (Reply 94):
ORH) and TTN is an alternate airport of the NY greater region.

ORH was done as a favor to Massport, just as UA did the Port Authority one by service to ACY. Small possibility of TTN-FLL as a substitute for PHL-FLL but not until a 3rd gate and major space is added to the gate area. F9 has this one to them self for atleast another 1-2 years or when the new terminal gets built (which is probably more 3-5 years away)

[Edited 2014-03-03 09:42:41]


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User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3150 posts, RR: 1
Reply 97, posted (6 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 13114 times:

Courtesy the OAG thread: UA ANC-SEA JUN 2>0.3 JUL 2>0 AUG 2>0 SEP 1.9>0 OCT 1.8>0 NOV 1.8>0

Perhaps an opportunity for F9 TTN-BLI-ANC. UA is/was a year around flyer to -SEA-ANC. That leaves AS as the sole year around flyer after UA pulls up stakes.

I'm not sure what DL plans might be for ANC. I looked at some fares 2-3 weeks out from today and they are not a player in the here and now. I have a hunch they may even though the naysayers believe otherwise.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineJerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1998 posts, RR: 0
Reply 98, posted (6 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 13068 times:
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Quoting mariner (Reply 95):
There isn't a lot we don't already know,

One thing I didn't realize was the amount collected as a PFC roughly $3.6 million and parking $2.5 to 3.0 million. Though I'm not 100% of how that is collected. I believe theres a cap of $9 a ticket. So does that mean that if both the orgin and destination airport (say TTN-MCO) have $4.50 PFC, TTN gets $4.50 from the TTN-MCO flight and MCO gets $4.50 from the MCO-TTN llight?? If one of the cities doesn't have a PFC then the one that does gets the fee both ways for example TTN-UST. TTN has a $4.50 PFC and UST does not, so TTN gets $4.50 for both flights (TTN-UST/UST-TTN) for a total of $9?? If so the 3.6 million figure is really 1.8 million



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User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2758 posts, RR: 1
Reply 99, posted (6 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 13036 times:

Quoting Jerseyguy (Reply 98):
So does that mean that if both the orgin and destination airport (say TTN-MCO) have $4.50 PFC, TTN gets $4.50 from the TTN-MCO flight and MCO gets $4.50 from the MCO-TTN llight??

PFC, or Passenger Facility Charge, is charged upon the Enplaned passenger. So with that I would imagine that with a roundtrip ticket TTN-MCO, when the pax leaves TTN. TTN gets the $4.50, and then when the pax leaves MCO, MCO gets the $4.50.

Yes?

 


User currently offlinewjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5163 posts, RR: 22
Reply 100, posted (6 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 13028 times:

Quoting Jerseyguy (Reply 91):
BTW I created a unoffical website for TTN

Just looked at it. I lived in Princeton for a while in the 80s, so I know the airport and area well.

That's a very nice, accurate, and informative web site. It has everything I need to know, in a very-well-organized format.

Would it that the PANYNJ web sites were so easy to navigate and had such clear information with no clutter. Kudos to you!!


User currently offlineJerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1998 posts, RR: 0
Reply 101, posted (6 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 13000 times:
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Quoting wjcandee (Reply 100):
That's a very nice, accurate, and informative web site. It has everything I need to know, in a very-well-organized format.

Would it that the PANYNJ web sites were so easy to navigate and had such clear information with no clutter. Kudos to you!!

I don't know if its a compliment saying I have a better website than the PANYNJ   . But seriously, thank you I have been receiving a pretty good amount of traffic from this thread. The official website has most of the information you need to know but its appearance is less than pleasing. Mercer Co has a lot bigger fish to fry than the website so I'm just filling a hole for information. Now if I could just find my way onto Google, Bing and Yahoo. The hosting company I'm using does have some nice templates so I can't take all the credit, if anyone has any suggestions re: search engine placement or wants to know who my host is they can email me via the site or PM me here.



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User currently offlineJerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1998 posts, RR: 0
Reply 102, posted (6 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 12987 times:
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Ok, here's an interesting thing I found while doing some research. I found a cab service out of Trenton who publishes their rates on their website and if I do my math correctly would make it a $18 cab ride (plus tip) from the airport to the Trenton Transit center home of service to both NYC and Philadelphia (via Amtrak and local commuter rail lines). The offical TTN website says that that trip cost $35 (thats almost double the fare I found). I have to do some more research because the taxi company (Trenton Star Cab) doesn't show up on the TTN official website as a cab service licensed in Ewing (the town that the airport is located). If true this provides a relatively inexpensive link to TTN.

Quote on out of town rates (Based in Trenton) on the website of the taxi company
"The applicable fares approved and on file with the PTC are $3 for the first mile, plus $2.50 for each additional mile or fraction of a mile." (TTN to Trenton Transit is 6.5 miles or 7 billable miles)



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User currently offlineJerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1998 posts, RR: 0
Reply 103, posted (6 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 12933 times:
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Got an email response from the company that the typical rate from the Trenton Transit Center to the airport is $20-$25. So I guess they must be licensed in Ewing, will be contacting the city clerk in Ewing to verify that they are licensed since it will be going up on my website.


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User currently offlineJerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1998 posts, RR: 0
Reply 104, posted (6 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 12651 times:
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It was reported as far away as England with UK's Daily Mail reporting on the story. A housing complex 1.1 miles from TTN was rocked by an explosion that could be felt as much as 7 miles away. Local residents had originally feared a plane crash due to TTN proximity. Luckily only 1 person was killed and 7 injured but 55 homes were damaged.

http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2...th_multiple_injuries_reported.html



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User currently offlinewjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5163 posts, RR: 22
Reply 105, posted (6 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 12611 times:

Quoting Jerseyguy (Reply 104):
A housing complex 1.1 miles from TTN was rocked by an explosion that could be felt as much as 7 miles away.

Just goes to show that there are many other dangers in everyday life besides living near an airport.

That job was being done by a major utility construction contractor that has an excellent reputation and places a huge emphasis on safety. Sometimes, stuff just goes wrong in a hurry.


User currently offlinen75jyv From United States of America, joined Sep 2013, 23 posts, RR: 0
Reply 106, posted (6 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 12586 times:

Quoting Jerseyguy (Reply 104):
Local residents had originally feared a plane crash due to TTN proximity.

I was on my way to Hamilton Station to catch a train about 1:30. Had been hearing sirens before I left the house, but that can be typical. On I-295, I saw a Mercer County Sheriff Incident Command Center bus with lights and siren headed toward Ewing. That got me wondering and when I got to the station, I saw a plume of black smoke rising up in the distance from the direction of Ewing. My first thought was the airport, and I started checking online where I found mention of a reported house explosion on NJ.com.

I wonder what the TTN tower guys saw. Checked flightaware and saw that an F9 flight had arrived around that time, followed by a bizjet. Might have been a few comments captured on LiveATC.


User currently offlineJerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1998 posts, RR: 0
Reply 107, posted (6 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 12524 times:
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Quoting n75jyv (Reply 106):
. Might have been a few comments captured on LiveATC

at the beginning a few questions about what that smoke is from the pilots. Trenton Tower says they felt something. Then after like 10-15 miinutes they advise that it was a house explosion and we hear that insulation from the homes had fallen onto the runway.



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User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3150 posts, RR: 1
Reply 108, posted (6 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 12490 times:

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 105):
That job was being done by a major utility construction contractor

I heard it was underground natural gas line explosion which was nicked by a utility worker earlier. The explosion occured when a second repair attempted to repair it; it went afoul. What I don't understand if it was a gas pipeline would the smoke have been petroleum based black unless the explosion took a few vehicles with it. Natural gas to my understanding burns clean. I would have thought a gas free engineer would have certified the area stable and the environment free and clear prior to any work being started.

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 105):
Just goes to show that there are many other dangers in everyday life besides living near an airport.

I for one and certainly glad it was not at the airport. This does surface a need to have a contingency plan in place if a major event close the TTN; man made or otherwise. I wonder if McGuire AFB would allow F9 to use WRI. It might be worth looking into. I suppose all Ops could be switched to ILG



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineJerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1998 posts, RR: 0
Reply 109, posted (6 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 12337 times:
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Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 108):
I heard it was underground natural gas line explosion which was nicked by a utility worker earlier. The explosion occured when a second repair attempted to repair it; it went afoul. What I don't understand if it was a gas pipeline would the smoke have been petroleum based black unless the explosion took a few vehicles with it. Natural gas to my understanding burns clean. I would have thought a gas free engineer would have certified the area stable and the environment free and clear prior to any work being started.

Well this may answer the question a bit
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/03/...r-past-year-for-safety-violations/

Also heard on ATC an aircraft saw the fire 30 miles out.



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User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5438 posts, RR: 7
Reply 110, posted (6 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 12191 times:

I'm new to this thread - sorry if this has been discussed before: I think Toronto might be a nice addition to the TTN network. To improve station utilization, YYZ would also support F9-fare flying to DEN and STL.


I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 111, posted (6 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 12172 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 110):
I'm new to this thread - sorry if this has been discussed before: I think Toronto might be a nice addition to the TTN network. To improve station utilization, YYZ would also support F9-fare flying to DEN and STL.

I don't think any one has mentioned YYZ, but BUF/IAG have been mentioned   The latest additions though are more dot connecting to cities where F9 already has successful DEN and international service but they are longer than 600 mile routes. RDU, CLT and UST remain TTN only cities.

I've been wanting PIT, BUF/IAG and one SC city, probably CHS. Or MYR, but NK already covers ACY-MYR. All these would be under 600 miles but new F9 domestic cities.

BOS has been discussed, but I think B6 provides the low fare competition to the legacies out of EWR and PHL.

If AA for some reason doesn't link PHL-GRR in the next year, TTN-GRR is one unique link that might be worth exploring, but it might cut into F9's TTN-DTW and ILG-DTW sales, so I'm not expecting that possibility. F9 unfortunately left GRR so the timing is off that way as well.

MSN is one other existing F9 city but it maybe too small of a market, but if TTN-MKE does really well maybe it'd be considered as well.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25273 posts, RR: 85
Reply 112, posted (6 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 12148 times:
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Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 110):
I'm new to this thread - sorry if this has been discussed before: I think Toronto might be a nice addition to the TTN network. To improve station utilization, YYZ would also support F9-fare flying to DEN and STL.

If we're talking about Canada proper rather than the border cities, I vote for YUL.

BUT - since Frontier is in f/a hiring mode, I'd love to see 'em do it a bit different, by hiring a few French speaking f/a's for the flights and advertising it heavily - "nous parlons votre langue."

T'ain't gunna happen, I know, but it is a dream of mine.  

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineFrontier14 From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 218 posts, RR: 0
Reply 113, posted (6 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 12109 times:

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 111):
I've been wanting PIT

I too had thought that PIT would be logical. However, after reading about the SW PIT -PHL flights (before they were cancelled) I now hope they do not. There are still a ton of US Air flight crew members living in the PIT area, many of whom commute to PHL for work. As it reportedly turned out, many of them were using the SW flights to do the commute. I certainly wouldn't want F9 to be the trolley via TTN for US crews too.

Frontier 14


User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 114, posted (6 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 12087 times:

Quoting Frontier14 (Reply 113):
I too had thought that PIT would be logical. However, after reading about the SW PIT -PHL flights (before they were cancelled) I now hope they do not. There are still a ton of US Air flight crew members living in the PIT area, many of whom commute to PHL for work. As it reportedly turned out, many of them were using the SW flights to do the commute. I certainly wouldn't want F9 to be the trolley via TTN for US crews too.

WN was running 4x daily. With the US response on that, with also low fares and more seats as well, that was too much capacity but a 4-5x weekly to 1x daily from F9 out of TTN is different. It involves a different airport, where US/AA likely won't be matching F9's TTN fares on the equivalent time PHL-PIT. So, it somewhat goes under the radar.

As far as crews using the service or any service, as long as they are paying like regular customers, I don't see the issue. In fact, it helps O+D and viability.


User currently offlineJerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1998 posts, RR: 0
Reply 115, posted (6 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 11997 times:
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Avis and Budget have reappeared in the Ronson Aviation building at TTN and provide a shuttle to the location approximately 1 mile away from the terminal.

http://www.avis.com/car-rental/location/details.ac?LOCATIONCODE=TTN

With a code from discount site Rentalcarmomma, I was able to find rentals starting at $165 (plus taxes) total $200


[Edited 2014-03-07 16:10:37]

[Edited 2014-03-07 16:11:28]


Frontier Early Returns Ascent Status| Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25273 posts, RR: 85
Reply 116, posted (6 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11954 times:
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Quoting Jerseyguy (Reply 115):
Avis and Budget have reappeared in the Ronson Aviation building at TTN and provide a shuttle to the location approximately 1 mile away from the terminal.

So how does it work, do you know?

Is there an Avis rep at the airport itself, or a desk or a telephone hotline so you can let me know you're there and for the shuttle to pick you up?

Or - your own mobile?

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineJerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1998 posts, RR: 0
Reply 117, posted (6 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11926 times:
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Quoting mariner (Reply 116):
So how does it work, do you know?

my impression is that they run the shuttle during the times the flights arrive. I don't think there is a phone there, people are expected to use their mobile if for some case they are left behind for whatever reason. Though I did not have a detailed conversation with the guy who answer the phone at the rental counter. I do know for a fact that they have a shuttle and they do stay open to accommodate late arriving flights, normal hours are 630am to 1000pm 7 days a week.



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User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3150 posts, RR: 1
Reply 118, posted (6 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11909 times:

Quoting Jerseyguy (Reply 115):
Avis and Budget have reappeared in the Ronson Aviation building at TTN and provide a shuttle to the location approximately 1 mile away from the terminal.

Sir, is there any advantage e.g. cost savings for renting off the airport at/nearTTN as to in the airport. Sometimes airport rental operations are so loaded with extra fees and taxes a lot of travelers don't think to rent off the airport.

In PVD the Hertz rental car operator on the airport is the same company who has an office a mile or so off the airport. In fact they supply cars to the airport. By taking a taxi to their location off the airport I was able to save about $17 a day in airport fees. AAA advised us to go this route in that we reserved the car through them.

At BNA I can save $15 a day easily on a compact car in fees that were no doubt borrowed from a telephone company by renting off the airport. TTN may be to small; I wanted to ask while the subject was at hand.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineJerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1998 posts, RR: 0
Reply 119, posted (6 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 11890 times:
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Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 118):
Sir, is there any advantage e.g. cost savings for renting off the airport at/nearTTN as to in the airport. Sometimes airport rental operations are so loaded with extra fees and taxes a lot of travelers don't think to rent off the airport.

Both charge an airport fee (both are on airport property), national calls it "airport access fee" and budget calls it a concession fee, National claims this fee to be 11.11%.

Without any coupon codes you appear to save $40 a week by using Avis/Budget over National/Enterprise. Avis budget seem to have more coupons too.

.

[Edited 2014-03-07 19:05:34]


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User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3150 posts, RR: 1
Reply 120, posted (6 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 11851 times:

Quoting Jerseyguy (Reply 119):

Are there any known rental car companies off the airport? A mile or two or three where a taxi could be used from the airport to the off the airport rental car location thus allowing a a traveler to avoid on the airport fees.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3150 posts, RR: 1
Reply 121, posted (6 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 11859 times:

This might explain some of RDU popularity from TTN. I wanted to pass it along as a possible guide to the city http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/09/tr...raleigh-nc.html?smid=fb-share&_r=1


Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineJerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1998 posts, RR: 0
Reply 122, posted (6 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 11812 times:
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Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 120):
Are there any known rental car companies off the airport? A mile or two or three where a taxi could be used from the airport to the off the airport rental car location thus allowing a a traveler to avoid on the airport fees.

There is a Hertz a few miles away near an office park but they have limited hours 930-430pm and the savings is like $20 in a week, highly not worth it.



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User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3150 posts, RR: 1
Reply 123, posted (6 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 11702 times:

Quoting Jerseyguy (Reply 122):
There is a Hertz a few miles away near an office park but they have limited hours 930-430pm and the savings is like $20 in a week, highly not worth it.

Offered as a add-on Hertz to my understanding is AAA preferred rental car operator nationwide. AAA offers an additional $35 discount on a weekly rental. What I don't know is if the reservation has to be made through AAA or can you walk up to a Hertz location and show your AAA membership card or reserve it on-line. I would think all are in play.

Other rental car discounts may also be found at www.retailmenot.com I found a $20 discount coupon which I applied in ANC for a two day rental.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineJerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1998 posts, RR: 0
Reply 124, posted (6 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 11689 times:
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Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 123):
Offered as a add-on Hertz to my understanding is AAA preferred rental car operator nationwide. AAA offers an additional $35 discount on a weekly rental. What I don't know is if the reservation has to be made through AAA or can you walk up to a Hertz location and show your AAA membership card or reserve it on-line. I would think all are in play.

Coupons can be found for National, Budget and Avis too (between $25-30 off for weekly). In some bigger airports, that trick works but TTN is too small to have many options off airport within a reasonable cab ride. Besides their airport fee is very reasonable compared to other bigger airports.



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User currently offlineJerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1998 posts, RR: 0
Reply 125, posted (6 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 11692 times:
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Quoting mariner (Reply 47):
I think this is a first - Frontier is having a two day open house to recruit f/a's in the Trenton area:

According to the article below, they received 99 applicants 38 of which are continuing further in the interview process, they have another day today.

http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2...sed_at_trenton-mercer_airport.html



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User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3150 posts, RR: 1
Reply 126, posted (6 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 11480 times:

I was informed this morning F9 waives the checked luggage fees for active duty military with proper credentials for official or leisure travel across their entire system. Most airlines who charge bag fees waive the bag fee for military members traveling on official orders but not on leisure travel.

This should benefit TTN with McGuire AFB a short twenty five miles away for those who do not want to travel to Philly The bag waiver fee exemption also applies at any other F9 station. Unlike UA the gratuity does not extend to active duty dependents/families traveling solo/unaccompanied; only to the active duty member. I believe this may be new under the new leadership team; at least the waiver for leisure travel. Most if not all air carriers waive bag fees while on official duty. It only makes sense in that F9 has dropped out of the government city pairs program. Mr. Franke is a prior military member. who appears to have the military in his heart. Their is an addage in the sea services and perhaps Westpoint too; Once a Chief - Always a Chief. I'm sure there is a Army variation as well.

For F9 I can see this especially beneficial at any station within a reasonable driving distance from a military installation(s). The stations which immediately come to my mind are DCA, PHF, TTN, ILG, MDW, AUS, SAN, DEN, SEA BNA, MEM, LAS, ATL and TPA.

When I originally read the policy I understood it to be a waiver of the bag fee surcharge for those opting to check luggage at the airport. F9 clarified it for me to mean any bag fee which is at minimal is a $50 savings on a around trip ticket.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineJerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1998 posts, RR: 0
Reply 127, posted (6 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 11473 times:
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Unfortunately McGuire doesn't have great bus connections and the only reason PHL is easy is due to Rapid Rover civilian airport shuttle. It would either require an expensive taxi ride or a long bus ride with a cheaper taxi ride. I guess if enough people requested it Rapid Rover would go to Trenton. Perhaps they could sign up a group to go. Who knows if the price difference is enough maybe 3-4 people in a taxi could be enough to make it worth while.


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User currently offlinejerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1998 posts, RR: 0
Reply 128, posted (6 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 11171 times:
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TTN (the airport) has not yet made a profit, though it had been losing money for years. Surprisingly according to the figures from the parking revenue, averaged out the parking lot has only been half full (575 spaces a day). Still with more flights coming in, they will need more parking available for the busy times and the average that should go up.

http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2...ers_success_new_revenues_help.html



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User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5438 posts, RR: 7
Reply 129, posted (6 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 11138 times:

Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 128):
TTN (the airport) has not yet made a profit,
TTN's finances are unusual. According to the FAA CATS data, TTN holds neither depreciable property nor debt. I'm not sure how this benefits either the county or the airport, although it does make the loss seem smaller by leaving out depreciation/amortization charges. Are the assets and debt on the county's books directly?

[Edited 2014-03-11 07:53:19]


I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25273 posts, RR: 85
Reply 130, posted (6 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 11031 times:
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Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 128):
). Still with more flights coming in, they will need more parking available for the busy times and the average that should go up.

http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2...ers_success_new_revenues_help.html

I dunno where the newspapers find these "analysts" - the one quoted in the article is just bollocks.

"As the economy recovers, air travel will continue to pick up among business and leisure travelers, said Anthony Sabino, an airline attorney, industry expert and professor at Peter J. Tobin College of Business in New York.

“Commercial travel is explicitly dependent on business activity,” he said.

“They fill up the rest of the jet with leisure travelers,” he said."


Frontier's schedules are specifically geared to leisure and VFR. Sure, biz travellers fly the airline, but they are not the primary market.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineFrontier14 From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 218 posts, RR: 0
Reply 131, posted (6 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 10836 times:

Noticed on the OAG thread that SW is pulling down their nonstops PHL - FLL and PHL - RSW drops to once a week. This could present more TTN capacity to these markets for F9.

Frontier 14


User currently offlinejerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1998 posts, RR: 0
Reply 132, posted (6 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 10747 times:
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With all of this build up in CLE, perhaps if more cities were announced one of them would line up with a west coast city for a connection. PHX and SEA do not unfortunately.


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User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3150 posts, RR: 1
Reply 133, posted (6 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 10644 times:

Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 132):
With all of this build up in CLE, perhaps if more cities were announced one of them would line up with a west coast city for a connection. PHX and SEA do not unfortunately.

I'd look for something where WN doesn't fly TYS-CLE perhaps on the heels of TYS-MDW.

It would have been neat had F9 opted for CLE-CHA vs CLE-ATL. I suppose CLE-ATL supplements some of ther other ATL service. IIMO domestic flyers go out of their way to avoid ATL. You also have the entire catchment area between CHA at ATL to an area 35 miles surrounding CHA. In a sense CHA is the TTN if you compare ATL to EWR and or PHL.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 134, posted (6 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 10591 times:

Quoting Frontier14 (Reply 131):
Noticed on the OAG thread that SW is pulling down their nonstops PHL - FLL and PHL - RSW drops to once a week. This could present more TTN capacity to these markets for F9.

Frontier 14

Perhaps even launching service on ILG-FLL. While F9 might have been reluctant because of a fare war down at BWI with NK and WN both selling under $100 o/w tickets (my reasoning for the noticeably missing route), I think ILG has it's own catchment that might not be really going down to BWI, anymore, especially with the ever increasing highway tolls, hassle of driving and parking costs.

Also, it's likely not just used by Northern Delawareans. ILG is close to Chester County along with Northern DE. The NK ACY flights are too far as well for the western side of the Philly market and likely not worth the bargain.

Google maps even shows a slight edge for Coatesville to ILG (28.5 miles), over Coatesville to PHL (41.2 miles). The Malvern-West Chester area also has some upper income HH, with a a number of companies out there and decent schools. Even in areas where PHL is closer by 10-20 miles, the parking the car, to sitting on the seat of a plane, to take off is likely faster through ILG, let alone the free parking that's still there.


User currently offlinejerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1998 posts, RR: 0
Reply 135, posted (6 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 10561 times:
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Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 133):
In a sense CHA is the TTN if you compare ATL to EWR and or PHL.


CHA doesn't have the population that TTN has. CHA can be an alternate for some of the Northern NW Atlanta suburbs. Marietta is 1:30 from CHA so that might be too far. The New Paulding Co/Silver Comet Field would be a better alternative when it comes up but g4 got it first.



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User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5438 posts, RR: 7
Reply 136, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 10514 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 133):
It would have been neat had F9 opted for CLE-CHA vs CLE-ATL.

I think at this time F9 is trying to improve their efficiency at low-frequency airports like ATL rather than add new one-route cities. (This idea makes UST inexplicable. They must have got a super-sweetheart deal at UST.)

[Edited 2014-03-13 11:00:35]


I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25273 posts, RR: 85
Reply 137, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 10479 times:
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Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 136):
(This idea makes UST inexplicable.


Not to me - I don't think it is just "one thing."

Yes, I agree with you about ATL, but I don't think it is just that. - I think they're doing more than one thing at the same time.

One could argue that DEN-BFL is an odd ball, too, because there are several bigger cities in the west, and more obvious tourist destinations, than BFL - a return to SMF, for example, just as the return to FAT has worked so well.

Quite a few have wanted a return of DEN-JAX, which, at least in terms of loads, did extremely well for Frontier, even as a red-eye, but which was lost in one of the earlier restructures. Now Southwest flies the route, and I think Frontier is wary of trying to overlay that.

UST is close enough to JAX and close enough to DAB to pick up at least some traffic for both, and it is also a unique tourist destination in its own right - with remarkably little chance, from TTN, of there ever being direct competition.

When this restructure happened - the move to ULCC - and even before that, they tended to avoid most "big city" routes (from DEN, I mean) in favour of routes with no competition, or only United. DEN-PHF had everyone scratching their heads, and many sneered - desperation was the word on a.net.

There have been failures as well as successes, and a lot of people, a lot, sneered at TTN when they first announced it.

Now, I think that Indigo is making its presence felt and we're seeing a move back to "big cities" - CLE and STL - but I don't think it will be a full on Spirit approach, I think - or hope - it will be a case of "as well as" not "instead of" - the big cities and the odd-balls.

So I think they are sticking their toe in extremely interesting water with TTN-UST - the first "odd-ball" route on the east coast. It is still too early to predict success - or failure - for UST, but I'm hearing the early reactions, as in bookings, have been extremely positive.

mariner

[Edited 2014-03-13 11:59:10]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineFrontier14 From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 218 posts, RR: 0
Reply 138, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 10440 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 136):
They must have got a super-sweetheart deal at UST

I suspect they did get a pretty good deal to set up shop there. The "sunshine destinations" of Florida cater especially to the right coast and midwest vacationers. TTN - UST is one of those that has been less known. Who knows how it will turn out; but if the fares are right, it may well be successful. There are other Florida possibilities that may have potential on both coasts too.

Quoting mariner (Reply 137):
Now, I think that Indigo is making its presence felt and we're seeing a move back to "big cities" - CLE and STL - but I don't think it will be a full on Spirit approach, I think - or hope - it will be a case of "as well as" not "instead of" - the big cities and the odd-balls.

I believe you are spot on in your statement. Indigo brings resources to the table that F9 never has had as long as I can recall. Those resources allow for more opportunities to develop the ULCC mold they are wanting. As we have seen in the last 12-18 months the Spirit model has changed some to grasp opportunities (ie. the AA bankruptcy and jumping into the DFW markets with both feet).

F9 has moved quickly at TTN in the past year, a couple of flights per week to 70+ this summer. For Frontier this is huge. Now with the CLE pull down they are responding there rapidly as well, a couple of destinations at Christmas to now 12.
I believe Indigo will keep the F9 threads active way more than any would have ever thought.    

Frontier 14


User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5438 posts, RR: 7
Reply 139, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 10394 times:

Quoting Frontier14 (Reply 138):
The "sunshine destinations" of Florida cater especially to the right coast and midwest vacationers. TTN - UST is one of those that has been less known

The Jax/StAugustine area isn't really a winter destination. The weather isn't reliably warm until March. The "shoulder" seasons are the best (March-May and Oct-early Dec) with summer being pretty beastly; but it's growing in population and business as well. It will be fun to watch.

CO operated CLE-JAX both full-year and seasonally for a few years; UA gave it up.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25273 posts, RR: 85
Reply 140, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 10355 times:
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Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 139):
The Jax/StAugustine area isn't really a winter destination. The weather isn't reliably warm until March.

Just in time for Spring Break at Daytona Beach.  

mariner

.



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3150 posts, RR: 1
Reply 141, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 10293 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 140):
Just in time for Spring Break at Daytona Beach.

DAB doesn't have the popularity as a spring break location it had 15-20 years ago. The focus has shifted west some. The new favorite is Corpus Christie, TX.. My college student son said Daytona is dated.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25273 posts, RR: 85
Reply 142, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 10283 times:
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Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 141):

DAB doesn't have the popularity as a spring break location it had 15-20 years ago. The focus has shifted west some. The new favorite is Corpus Christie, TX.. My college student son said Daytona is dated.

It's still on:

http://www.dbspringbreak.com

And with only three flights a week, Frontier doesn't need too big of a crowd.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinejerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1998 posts, RR: 0
Reply 143, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 10262 times:
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Quoting mariner (Reply 142):
And with only three flights a week, Frontier doesn't need too big of a crowd.

As far as the spring break crowd goes the one thing UST has going against it is the fact that you probably need to rent a car and thats the under 25 crowd which incurs surcharges. DAB is likely to have an airport shuttle available to the beaches for $10-15 each way and/or relatively cheap cabs. I googled about possible spring break activities in St. Augustine and I found that the locals say that they do get older people professors and teachers who want a quiet break away from the spring break action. Perhaps UST will pick up that.



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User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25273 posts, RR: 85
Reply 144, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 10247 times:
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Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 143):
As far as the spring break crowd goes the one thing UST has going against it is the fact that you probably need to rent a car and thats the under 25 crowd which incurs surcharges. DAB is likely to have an airport shuttle available to the beaches for $10-15 each way and/or relatively cheap cabs.

All true - UST is fifty six miles from Daytona Beach - and I can't imagine Spring Breakers at UST, it's a different crowd.

Nor do I think the flights will be reliant on Spring Breakers, just as they will not be reliant on pax going to JAX - St. Augustine has its own attractions.

I hope they are considering, for example, starting PHF-UST in early spring, partly for the local vacation/beach traffic and partly - but only partly - because there is good traffic between Newport News and Jacksonville for the navy construction crowd, and Southwest is cancelling ORF-JAX.

Every little helps.

mariner

[Edited 2014-03-13 19:33:26]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5438 posts, RR: 7
Reply 145, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 10159 times:

Is there a physical limit to what F9 can do at TTN pending physical expansion? Are they close to it?


I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlinejerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1998 posts, RR: 0
Reply 146, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 10155 times:
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Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 145):
Is there a physical limit to what F9 can do at TTN pending physical expansion? Are they close to it?

If they move the sherriffs office and airport admin offices, they'd have plenty of space, but the sherriffs office won't want to move so they will expand just enough for now and then when they need more space they will probably be forced out. With all the space they could probably house 95-100 flights a week, though it may require a reconfigure of space in order to add a security lane to accommodate the additional flights.



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User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5438 posts, RR: 7
Reply 147, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 10143 times:

Thanks, jersey guy. Is it fair to say something like 15 flights per day is the near-term limit?


I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlinejerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1998 posts, RR: 0
Reply 148, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 10144 times:
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Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 147):
Thanks, jersey guy. Is it fair to say something like 15 flights per day is the near-term limit?

That would be fair to say, though they could bring in modular trailers ala LGB. Though I can't imagine that it will continue to grow at the rate it has in this past year and a half.



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User currently offlinejerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1998 posts, RR: 0
Reply 149, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 10081 times:
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Frontier is running another hiring day to finish their hiring of FAs They supposedly hired 38 and are looking to open up the base with atleast 50.

http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2..._fair_to_fill_final_positions.html



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