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AA Ending SBA-LAX, Keeping SBA-PHX?  
User currently offlinemattnrsa From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 393 posts, RR: 1
Posted (8 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 12105 times:

With AA-coded flights from SBA to LAX zeroed out after April 1, it looks like these flights will be ending soon. Although this is not major in the big scheme of things, it's interesting to see the US-coded SBA-PHX flight will remain since many here predicted that PHX would be drawn down as LAX is built up.

Is this market an exception or will additional markets lose their LAX link to focus more on PHX and the less-intense competition seen there?

85 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5742 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (8 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 11946 times:

Quoting mattnrsa (Thread starter):
Is this market an exception or will additional markets lose their LAX link to focus more on PHX and the less-intense competition seen there?

I'm not surprised about SBA as the O&D market is inexistant, and if you are going to combine the traffic onto one flight it would make sense to keep the one with some O&D passengers. I wouldn't expect them to start cutting other small West Coast markets, but if they do then that probably suggest that PHX will stick around, at least in the medium term.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineBeardown91737 From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 559 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 11915 times:

SBA-LAX is under 100 miles, which means it really only exists for connections. Previously, routes like ONT-LAX and SNA-LAX were dropped because the distance wasn't much more than an hour's drive. I am guessing that the same thing is happening here.

On SBA-PHX, there is probably a decent O/D component as well. It probably won't hold up as well as it did when US was feeding the PHX hub to destinations east.

Before this thread is over, I am sure we will hear that The New AA is only holding on to flights at PHX because they were forced to.



135 hrs PIC (mostly PA-28) - not current. Landings at MDW, PIA, JAN.
User currently offlinejmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3296 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (8 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 11807 times:

This is just the beginning of the transition to the role that LAX will serve as an O&D focus city / international gateway while PHX will play the role of a 300-350 flight/day hub.


.......
User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33043 posts, RR: 71
Reply 4, posted (8 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 11747 times:

AA is under pretty heavy gate restraints at LAX that will continue through the end of 2015. Serving SBA from PHX only makes perfect sense.

I do not see this as any sign that the PHX hub will grow, nor that the LAX operation will be O&D focused (it's far too big for that).

Again - simple realignment of the network once more. Markets that AA was forced to serve from more inefficient bases to capture the wider markets - SBA, HMO and ART - are going to be focused from PMUS hubs.

We will continue to see this rationalization, including very possibly PHX routes ending to be served only from LAX. Hub closures are a few years off.

[Edited 2014-02-25 01:25:25]


a.
User currently onlineMesaFlyGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 3201 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (8 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 11458 times:
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Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 4):

Jut to clarify, you're not saying the PMUS bases are less efficient than the PMAA bases, are you?

Quoting jmc1975 (Reply 3):



\________(---)________/ :) World's most beautiful aircraft: 757-200, MD-88/90, E-190, A321
User currently offlineAABB777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 575 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (8 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 11396 times:
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Wow, this is surprising to me. Any official confirmation from AA?

I would have thought AA would reduce LAX-SBA capacity a bit before ending the route completely. Seems that every time I fly into LAX on AA there are pax connecting to SBA.

In addition to PHX-SBA might we see Eagle re-start DFW-SBA on CR7?


User currently offlineAVLAirlineFreq From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 1064 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 11325 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 4):
Again - simple realignment of the network once more. Markets that AA was forced to serve from more inefficient bases to capture the wider markets - SBA, HMO and ART - are going to be focused from PMUS hubs.

Are there any other West Coast markets served out of LAX and not currently served through PHX where we might see this transition?


User currently offlinerealsim From Spain, joined Apr 2010, 658 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 11150 times:

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 7):
Are there any other West Coast markets served out of LAX and not currently served through PHX where we might see this transition?

West of PHX, only EUG and RDM are served from LAX and not from PHX, and they are LAX orientated. With SBA gone, all the routes flown from LAX are now at least 210 mi long.


User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1934 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (8 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 11012 times:

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 2):
Previously, routes like ONT-LAX and SNA-LAX were dropped because the distance wasn't much more than an hour's drive.

I would have LOVED to book a ONT-LAX-SNA r/t on UA when they still had it...all for a whopping 30 mile drive.


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7367 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (8 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 10875 times:

Under the AZ AG agreement, AA/US isn't really forced to do anything. I think this is a one-off move and signals nothing. Also, PHX isn't closing next week. I'd guess they won't do anything big for a year.

User currently offlineCIDFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2328 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (8 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 10820 times:

too bad, I flew the SBA-LAX leg once and it was a beautiful flight over the the coast and mountains

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25768 posts, RR: 50
Reply 12, posted (8 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 10712 times:

Is this not old news, was first reported back in December, but AA first denied it.

http://www.insidesocal.com/aviation/...s-despite-report-saying-otherwise/

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 4):
AA is under pretty heavy gate restraints at LAX that will continue through the end of 2015. Serving SBA from PHX only makes perfect sense.

RJ's park at the AE box terminal. Not effected by work around T-4.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinea380787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2013, 990 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 10555 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 4):
AA is under pretty heavy gate restraints at LAX that will continue through the end of 2015. Serving SBA from PHX only makes perfect sense.

Except that LAX provides lots of unique options, primarily long-haul and premium, that simply don't exist at PHX

SBA-LAX-MEL becomes SBA-PHX-LAX-MEL ? or worse ... expect the pax to drive the 100 miles down to LAX ?

same thing with premium transcon .... taking SBA-PHX-JFK versus SBA-LAX-JFK is quite a downgrade for the premium pax (considering SBA is a rich enclave)


User currently offlinedreamflight767 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 91 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10280 times:
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Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 9):
I would have LOVED to book a ONT-LAX-SNA r/t on UA when they still had it...all for a whopping 30 mile drive.

Yeah, but what seems a 4 hour drive because of traffic.


User currently onlinecivetfive From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 123 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10231 times:

Quoting a380787 (Reply 13):

I don't disagree, but AA is sitting on all of the data in the world, so this tells me that SBA isn't driving premium sales the way we think it is to some of these destinations.


User currently offlineoc2dc From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 396 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 9642 times:

Quoting realsim (Reply 8):
With SBA gone, all the routes flown from LAX are now at least 210 mi long.

Negative. LAX-SAN is about 120 miles and is flown by AA/AE about 8x daily.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 13):
SBA-LAX-MEL becomes SBA-PHX-LAX-MEL ? or worse ... expect the pax to drive the 100 miles down to LAX ?

same thing with premium transcon .... taking SBA-PHX-JFK versus SBA-LAX-JFK is quite a downgrade for the premium pax (considering SBA is a rich enclave)

This is my first thought. . .I would have thought it would have been worth it to keep premium traffic connections. Maybe the idea of premium traffic on this route is exaggerated.



I'm not complaining, I'm critiquing...
User currently offlinea380787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2013, 990 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 9536 times:

Quoting civetfive (Reply 15):
I don't disagree, but AA is sitting on all of the data in the world, so this tells me that SBA isn't driving premium sales the way we think it is to some of these destinations.

So does UA .... but UA thinks it's crucial enough to have service to SFO, LAX, and DEN (albeit, all UAX)


User currently offlinepsa1011 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 298 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 9455 times:
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So if someone wants to travel SBA-SFO/PacNW/Hawaii/NRT/PVG, I imagine they'd switch to UA for air travel. I'm not clear, then, on why anyone @ SBA would still be loyal to the new AA.

User currently offlinerealsim From Spain, joined Apr 2010, 658 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 9388 times:

Quoting oc2dc (Reply 16):
Negative. LAX-SAN is about 120 miles and is flown by AA/AE about 8x daily.

Sorry, I forgot to add the "except SAN" tag. By the way, it is worth mentioning that LAX-SAN was not so long ago flown something like 12 daily.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 17):
So does UA .... but UA thinks it's crucial enough to have service to SFO, LAX, and DEN (albeit, all UAX)

I'm sure that AA knows exacty how many passengers are flying TPAC via LAX ex SBA (the only ones that will not be able to connect via PHX), and also how many are flying FC from SBA to JFK via LAX, and if they are axiing the route it is because the loss it is making doesn't justify keeping it for those -I assume- very few passengers.

[Edited 2014-02-25 10:48:29]

User currently offlinediverdave From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 335 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 9296 times:

Quoting realsim (Reply 19):
I'm sure that AA knows exacty how many passengers are flying TPAC via LAX ex SBA (the only ones that will not be able to connect via PHX), and also how many are flying FC from SBA to JFK via LAX, and if they are axiing the route it is because the loss it is making doesn't justify keeping it for those -I assume- very few passengers.

Back in the day of the Saabs, this was a route with pretty high frequency of service. The frequency went down when service transitioned to the Embraers, and seems to have been further reduced with the introduction of the CRJ 50 seat service.

David


User currently offlinejmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3296 posts, RR: 15
Reply 21, posted (8 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 9296 times:

Quoting realsim (Reply 19):

I'm sure that AA knows exacty how many passengers are flying TPAC flying via LAX ex SBA (the only ones that will not be able to connect via PHX), and also how many are flying FC from SBA to JFK via LAX, and if they are axiing the route it is because the loss it is making doesn't justify keeping it for those -I assume- very few passengers.

  
It's not likely you would see many celebrities/ultra-wealthy hop onboard an Eagle flight, then be bussed across the LAX tarmac (where there's sometimes standing room only) to make their JFK/International connection. They are either driven by limo/personal town car/black Escalade to LAX or they take their own private jet.



.......
User currently offlineAABB777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 575 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (8 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 9203 times:
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Quoting psa1011 (Reply 18):
So if someone wants to travel SBA-SFO/PacNW/Hawaii/NRT/PVG, I imagine they'd switch to UA for air travel. I'm not clear, then, on why anyone @ SBA would still be loyal to the new AA.

I agree - I know several folks who travel in revenue First/Business class on AA JFK-LAX-SBA every few weeks. This will certainly affect their travel buying decisions. Flying via PHX on US is certainly a product downgrade for a premium customer. However, AA has the data to support the ending of LAX-SBA, but I am still surprised.


User currently offlineoc2dc From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 396 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 months 23 hours ago) and read 8530 times:

Quoting realsim (Reply 19):
Sorry, I forgot to add the "except SAN" tag. By the way, it is worth mentioning that LAX-SAN was not so long ago flown something like 12 daily.

It is important to note there has been a lot of upgauging on the route. A few years ago, the route was exclusively ERJ-140's. Now it is a mix of about half CRJ2's and CRJ7's. Over all, seat capacity is about the same.



I'm not complaining, I'm critiquing...
User currently offlineEricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1904 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (8 months 23 hours ago) and read 8438 times:

Quoting realsim (Reply 8):
West of PHX, only EUG and RDM are served from LAX and not from PHX, and they are LAX orientated.

FWIW, there are a few more served by Horizon via AS code share such as MFR, STS, MMH.

Quoting jmc1975 (Reply 3):
while PHX will play the role of a 300-350 flight/day hub.

Based on the current schedule, this means a buildup of about 50 flights daily. Where do you think they are going to add frequencies / routes that are not already served?

Quoting AABB777 (Reply 22):
Flying via PHX on US is certainly a product downgrade for a premium customer. However, AA has the data to support the ending of LAX-SBA, but I am still surprised.

How is this a product downgrade? The onboard service on US will be in alignment with AA's on April 1st (I believe this is the target date). In addition, there are more domestic connection options out of PHX than LAX. The only big downside of this move is the loss of connectioms to international flights out of LAX. It is apparent that SBA pax bound for destinations along the west coast were taking other carriers anyways.


25 Mah4546 : Nobody has to drive. Shuttle busses run between Santa Barbara and LAX even more frequently than airplanes do, and it's probably quicker and cheaper.
26 a380787 : Yes, that's the perfect solution for the rich retirees at SBA
27 WhatUsaid : SBA-LAX-ORD is bookable in May and June... Has AA officially said anything about pulling the route down?
28 AABB777 : Regardless of the US product alignment, it's a downgrade for an AA premium pax who today travels on the A321T JFK-LAX and now, with the AA LAX-SBA ca
29 psa1011 : I think it may be that UA already owns the market. If looking at frequency alone, UA runs 7x daily, while AA is 4x. People may already be used to usin
30 jmc1975 : Increased buildup by recapturing some local O&D traffic from WN to such markets as LAX,SNA,SAN,ABQ,ELP. New/resumed service largely driven by str
31 Tomassjc : UA has owned SBA since the 50s!
32 MIflyer12 : What solutions do you propose, if not market based? If there are enough retirees in SBA with a propensity to spend money on air travel, resources wil
33 N1120A : Not really. SBA-LAX is a 2 hour drive, in the best possible traffic conditions, and those rarely exist. ONT-LAX and SNA-LAX are less than half the di
34 Mah4546 : You mean the ones already taking limo services to LAX anyway?
35 psa1011 : Interesting. Looking at the UA schedules at SBA it definitely looks that way. 7x LAX 9x SFO 2x DEN For a total of 18x, vs. a total of 4x on AA (and u
36 a380787 : Learn how to capture the market properly ... the market definitely exists (UA flies to 3 hubs from SBA), but AA is failing to capture their fair shar
37 N1120A : Nothing shocking about it. The E120 is perfect for most of the day. SJC-SBA was an at-risk route for OO and mainly existed to serve those Silicon Val
38 Mah4546 : AA operates the route 12x weekly under JBA with JAL, just as UA actually has 21x weekly under JBA with ANA.
39 N1120A : The ones buying plane tickets.
40 Mah4546 : Which clearly isn't sufficient right now on AA to support the service, if it is indeed ending (It's still in GDS). I don't see why people are shocked
41 N1120A : Well, AA uses a ridiculously inefficient aircraft to handle the route. LAX-SAN sticks around, and is basically the same length - only with better tra
42 psa1011 : I think the SAN case is different, since traffic between LA County and SD County can turn a 2hr trip into a 5hr trip. Amtrak is the only public trans
43 Post contains links and images realsim : I don't disagree that UA is the largest and predominant carrier at SBA, but looking at the last annual statistics provided by SBA Airport, their mark
44 777stl : AA has promised state leaders three years of grace before any significant cuts take place at PHX. Figure Q1 2017 is when you might see the first majo
45 Beardown91737 : How much exposure have PMAA fliers from SBA had to 737s? How much could they know about the recently delivered A321s? They will need to do something
46 Tomassjc : I wasn't speaking so much in terms of market share, but the fact that UA has served SBA since the mid 1930s. Tomas SJC
47 AABB777 : PMAA fliers know a lot about the 737, as it's the workhorse for a lot of LAX flying. This is true primarily for premium and frequent business travele
48 Post contains images WALmsp : The curious part for me is that flights are scheduled to be discontinued April 1, but my ticketed flight from SBA to LAS via LAX in June is still show
49 Raventech : But how many passengers actually connect internationally or are going to JFK, if its very little then their passengers are going to be equally served
50 Beardown91737 : According to AA, the answer is they will need to find ground transportation of some type. I have thought there should be a water taxi from SBA, Ventu
51 Post contains links LAXintl : AA spokesman confirms the cut. American Airlines to stop flying to LAX from SBA http://www.pacbiztimes.com/2014/02/2...es-to-stop-flying-to-lax-from-s
52 N1120A : Amtrak is fast, reliable and efficient and connects to the FlyAway, which is quite easy. Ever try and leave Santa Barbara on a Sunday afternoon? Driv
53 Beardown91737 : Didn't forget. Never knew about it. What is it? it was not a serious proposal.
54 WhatUsaid : But, the spin masters at AA fail to mention that unless they upgrade to all '900's, there's not sufficient capacity on their existing PHX flights to
55 WALmsp : I called AA reservations yesterday to ask how this will affected my already-ticketed SBA-LAX-LAS flight in late June and they were unaware of any chan
56 LAXintl : Who says AA even wants all the traffic? Cutting the LAX flying and some portion of the spill via PHX might be part of the broader goal to raise perfo
57 LDVAviation : How many passengers on a daily basis is that? Seriously?
58 AABB777 : I too have a flight booked from SBA in late April (SBA-LAX-IAD) and called today about the change. The agent was unaware of the route cancellation an
59 jmc1975 : The entire SBA-HKG market is roughly 1 PDEW. That person's got it rough!
60 AADC10 : Why would the gate constraints end in 2015? If anything it might get worse combined with US. The split T3/T-4 operations with TW were a pain back in
61 Post contains images SANFan : Hmmmm, what I take away from this topic is that it seems to me like a great opportunity for AS to start flying nonstop SBA to SAN... bb
62 LDVAviation : The TBIT gates will help a lot. The "exclusive" tag is inconsequential. From what I have heard, if AA and US combined ops at T4 (without any reductio
63 Wingtips56 : RES doesn't see or know anything until after Schedule Change is run, which is in the wee hours Sundays. If the flights are changed or eliminated, the
64 Post contains images PHX787 : And many of you actually thought that LAX would be a viable West Coast hub Seriously, none of you should be surprised. At least for this route.
65 AA94 : I can't help but laugh at this. I don't mean to be rude, but you act like all other means of getting to LAX have burned away in a fiery hell and the
66 Post contains images WALmsp : I won't make a change until they say I have to (I like my nickels ). I just wanted to see if they knew how this would affect my reservation. Based on
67 MikeNYC : I fly this route regularly and a piliot/ground crew mentioned something interesting and I just read about the growth of Mesa ... I wonder if it has an
68 realsim : The Mesa LAX rumor is indeed real, but if anything Mesa will replace current Eagle CR7 flights with their CR9s. The contract with OO runs until 2016
69 durangomac : The only route that is being dropped from OO as American Eagle is LAX-SBA. If YV is moving into LAX it will be to take over MQ's flying or open up ne
70 WALmsp : Just got an email from AA: The SBA-LAX portion of my itinerary has been transferred to UEx with a 5 hour layover on the return!
71 N1120A : Of course, a lot of this is the short sighted nature of the heavily RJing of fleets Express bus from Union Station to LAX.
72 washingtonflyer : IMO, this is a perfect opportunity for a Q300. 100 miles? What a waste of expensive RJ resources.
73 Wingtips56 : Yuck. Call AA and work with them on a more satisfactory routing, as they have to make an effort to provide you with an acceptable rerouting. It proba
74 AABB777 : AA will put you on UA SBA-LAX if 'Q' Class is available on UA. I suggest you call AA and try to get a better flight option. Also, for April 2014 Sant
75 WALmsp : Thanks guys, I am planning to call AA, just haven't got to it yet. I've spent the past week preparing a paper for a conference (I am a grad student at
76 washingtonflyer : You don't need to study. You have Isla Vista...
77 Beardown91737 : only a pain on AA or I should say.. only that kind of pain on AA. UA can make it another kind of pain.
78 Post contains images Deltal1011man : All of this over a 45 minute flight? Jeesh you would think AA is stopping ORD-DFW or something. Just be happy you have SBA flights at all. Try getting
79 FATFlyer : Ending the American Eagle codeshare at LAX in 2012 took its toll on DL's presence in the smaller California markets (SBA/MRY/FAT). Even though DL kep
80 WALmsp : IV is for the undergrads and I avoid it whenever possible!
81 diverdave : The 45 minute flight can be far shorter than the drive on the heavily congested 405 and 101 freeways. In any case, thank you AA for ending this servi
82 AABB777 : I am still scratching my head that Eagle (OO) is ending SBA-LAX completely. They should have trimmed the schedule to 2x daily to connect to int'l/tran
83 N1120A : Its more that they didn't have the right plane in place. Dumping the Saabs from LAX really hurt their ability to compete
84 AABB777 : True. Maybe the route will be re-launched if new equipment is introduced at LAX that would allow Eagle to operate LAX-SBA more efficiently/economical
85 Yflyer : That kind of begs the question -- what will UA do with that route once SkyWest retires the E120s?
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