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AA Ending SBA-LAX, Keeping SBA-PHX?  
User currently offlinemattnrsa From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 391 posts, RR: 1
Posted (5 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 11710 times:

With AA-coded flights from SBA to LAX zeroed out after April 1, it looks like these flights will be ending soon. Although this is not major in the big scheme of things, it's interesting to see the US-coded SBA-PHX flight will remain since many here predicted that PHX would be drawn down as LAX is built up.

Is this market an exception or will additional markets lose their LAX link to focus more on PHX and the less-intense competition seen there?

85 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5211 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (5 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 11551 times:

Quoting mattnrsa (Thread starter):
Is this market an exception or will additional markets lose their LAX link to focus more on PHX and the less-intense competition seen there?

I'm not surprised about SBA as the O&D market is inexistant, and if you are going to combine the traffic onto one flight it would make sense to keep the one with some O&D passengers. I wouldn't expect them to start cutting other small West Coast markets, but if they do then that probably suggest that PHX will stick around, at least in the medium term.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineBeardown91737 From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 511 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 11520 times:

SBA-LAX is under 100 miles, which means it really only exists for connections. Previously, routes like ONT-LAX and SNA-LAX were dropped because the distance wasn't much more than an hour's drive. I am guessing that the same thing is happening here.

On SBA-PHX, there is probably a decent O/D component as well. It probably won't hold up as well as it did when US was feeding the PHX hub to destinations east.

Before this thread is over, I am sure we will hear that The New AA is only holding on to flights at PHX because they were forced to.



135 hrs PIC (mostly PA-28) - not current. Landings at MDW, PIA, JAN.
User currently offlinejmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3253 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (5 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 11412 times:

This is just the beginning of the transition to the role that LAX will serve as an O&D focus city / international gateway while PHX will play the role of a 300-350 flight/day hub.


.......
User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32624 posts, RR: 72
Reply 4, posted (5 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 11352 times:

AA is under pretty heavy gate restraints at LAX that will continue through the end of 2015. Serving SBA from PHX only makes perfect sense.

I do not see this as any sign that the PHX hub will grow, nor that the LAX operation will be O&D focused (it's far too big for that).

Again - simple realignment of the network once more. Markets that AA was forced to serve from more inefficient bases to capture the wider markets - SBA, HMO and ART - are going to be focused from PMUS hubs.

We will continue to see this rationalization, including very possibly PHX routes ending to be served only from LAX. Hub closures are a few years off.

[Edited 2014-02-25 01:25:25]


a.
User currently offlineMesaFlyGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 2948 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (5 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 11063 times:
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Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 4):

Jut to clarify, you're not saying the PMUS bases are less efficient than the PMAA bases, are you?

Quoting jmc1975 (Reply 3):



\________(---)________/ :) World's most beautiful aircraft: 757-200, MD-88/90, E-190, A321
User currently offlineAABB777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 528 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 11001 times:
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Wow, this is surprising to me. Any official confirmation from AA?

I would have thought AA would reduce LAX-SBA capacity a bit before ending the route completely. Seems that every time I fly into LAX on AA there are pax connecting to SBA.

In addition to PHX-SBA might we see Eagle re-start DFW-SBA on CR7?


User currently offlineAVLAirlineFreq From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 1027 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 10930 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 4):
Again - simple realignment of the network once more. Markets that AA was forced to serve from more inefficient bases to capture the wider markets - SBA, HMO and ART - are going to be focused from PMUS hubs.

Are there any other West Coast markets served out of LAX and not currently served through PHX where we might see this transition?


User currently offlinerealsim From Spain, joined Apr 2010, 645 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 10755 times:

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 7):
Are there any other West Coast markets served out of LAX and not currently served through PHX where we might see this transition?

West of PHX, only EUG and RDM are served from LAX and not from PHX, and they are LAX orientated. With SBA gone, all the routes flown from LAX are now at least 210 mi long.


User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1884 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (5 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 10617 times:

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 2):
Previously, routes like ONT-LAX and SNA-LAX were dropped because the distance wasn't much more than an hour's drive.

I would have LOVED to book a ONT-LAX-SNA r/t on UA when they still had it...all for a whopping 30 mile drive.


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7048 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (5 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 10480 times:

Under the AZ AG agreement, AA/US isn't really forced to do anything. I think this is a one-off move and signals nothing. Also, PHX isn't closing next week. I'd guess they won't do anything big for a year.

User currently offlineCIDFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2274 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (5 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 10425 times:

too bad, I flew the SBA-LAX leg once and it was a beautiful flight over the the coast and mountains

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24893 posts, RR: 46
Reply 12, posted (5 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 10317 times:

Is this not old news, was first reported back in December, but AA first denied it.

http://www.insidesocal.com/aviation/...s-despite-report-saying-otherwise/

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 4):
AA is under pretty heavy gate restraints at LAX that will continue through the end of 2015. Serving SBA from PHX only makes perfect sense.

RJ's park at the AE box terminal. Not effected by work around T-4.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinea380787 From Canada, joined Jul 2013, 964 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 10160 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 4):
AA is under pretty heavy gate restraints at LAX that will continue through the end of 2015. Serving SBA from PHX only makes perfect sense.

Except that LAX provides lots of unique options, primarily long-haul and premium, that simply don't exist at PHX

SBA-LAX-MEL becomes SBA-PHX-LAX-MEL ? or worse ... expect the pax to drive the 100 miles down to LAX ?

same thing with premium transcon .... taking SBA-PHX-JFK versus SBA-LAX-JFK is quite a downgrade for the premium pax (considering SBA is a rich enclave)


User currently offlinedreamflight767 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 86 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 9885 times:
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Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 9):
I would have LOVED to book a ONT-LAX-SNA r/t on UA when they still had it...all for a whopping 30 mile drive.

Yeah, but what seems a 4 hour drive because of traffic.


User currently offlinecivetfive From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 116 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 9836 times:

Quoting a380787 (Reply 13):

I don't disagree, but AA is sitting on all of the data in the world, so this tells me that SBA isn't driving premium sales the way we think it is to some of these destinations.


User currently offlineoc2dc From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 362 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 9247 times:

Quoting realsim (Reply 8):
With SBA gone, all the routes flown from LAX are now at least 210 mi long.

Negative. LAX-SAN is about 120 miles and is flown by AA/AE about 8x daily.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 13):
SBA-LAX-MEL becomes SBA-PHX-LAX-MEL ? or worse ... expect the pax to drive the 100 miles down to LAX ?

same thing with premium transcon .... taking SBA-PHX-JFK versus SBA-LAX-JFK is quite a downgrade for the premium pax (considering SBA is a rich enclave)

This is my first thought. . .I would have thought it would have been worth it to keep premium traffic connections. Maybe the idea of premium traffic on this route is exaggerated.



I'm not complaining, I'm critiquing...
User currently offlinea380787 From Canada, joined Jul 2013, 964 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 9141 times:

Quoting civetfive (Reply 15):
I don't disagree, but AA is sitting on all of the data in the world, so this tells me that SBA isn't driving premium sales the way we think it is to some of these destinations.

So does UA .... but UA thinks it's crucial enough to have service to SFO, LAX, and DEN (albeit, all UAX)


User currently offlinepsa1011 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 292 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 9060 times:
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So if someone wants to travel SBA-SFO/PacNW/Hawaii/NRT/PVG, I imagine they'd switch to UA for air travel. I'm not clear, then, on why anyone @ SBA would still be loyal to the new AA.

User currently offlinerealsim From Spain, joined Apr 2010, 645 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 8993 times:

Quoting oc2dc (Reply 16):
Negative. LAX-SAN is about 120 miles and is flown by AA/AE about 8x daily.

Sorry, I forgot to add the "except SAN" tag. By the way, it is worth mentioning that LAX-SAN was not so long ago flown something like 12 daily.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 17):
So does UA .... but UA thinks it's crucial enough to have service to SFO, LAX, and DEN (albeit, all UAX)

I'm sure that AA knows exacty how many passengers are flying TPAC via LAX ex SBA (the only ones that will not be able to connect via PHX), and also how many are flying FC from SBA to JFK via LAX, and if they are axiing the route it is because the loss it is making doesn't justify keeping it for those -I assume- very few passengers.

[Edited 2014-02-25 10:48:29]

User currently offlinediverdave From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 321 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 8901 times:

Quoting realsim (Reply 19):
I'm sure that AA knows exacty how many passengers are flying TPAC via LAX ex SBA (the only ones that will not be able to connect via PHX), and also how many are flying FC from SBA to JFK via LAX, and if they are axiing the route it is because the loss it is making doesn't justify keeping it for those -I assume- very few passengers.

Back in the day of the Saabs, this was a route with pretty high frequency of service. The frequency went down when service transitioned to the Embraers, and seems to have been further reduced with the introduction of the CRJ 50 seat service.

David


User currently offlinejmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3253 posts, RR: 15
Reply 21, posted (5 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 8901 times:

Quoting realsim (Reply 19):

I'm sure that AA knows exacty how many passengers are flying TPAC flying via LAX ex SBA (the only ones that will not be able to connect via PHX), and also how many are flying FC from SBA to JFK via LAX, and if they are axiing the route it is because the loss it is making doesn't justify keeping it for those -I assume- very few passengers.

  
It's not likely you would see many celebrities/ultra-wealthy hop onboard an Eagle flight, then be bussed across the LAX tarmac (where there's sometimes standing room only) to make their JFK/International connection. They are either driven by limo/personal town car/black Escalade to LAX or they take their own private jet.



.......
User currently offlineAABB777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 528 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 8808 times:
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Quoting psa1011 (Reply 18):
So if someone wants to travel SBA-SFO/PacNW/Hawaii/NRT/PVG, I imagine they'd switch to UA for air travel. I'm not clear, then, on why anyone @ SBA would still be loyal to the new AA.

I agree - I know several folks who travel in revenue First/Business class on AA JFK-LAX-SBA every few weeks. This will certainly affect their travel buying decisions. Flying via PHX on US is certainly a product downgrade for a premium customer. However, AA has the data to support the ending of LAX-SBA, but I am still surprised.


User currently offlineoc2dc From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 362 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 8135 times:

Quoting realsim (Reply 19):
Sorry, I forgot to add the "except SAN" tag. By the way, it is worth mentioning that LAX-SAN was not so long ago flown something like 12 daily.

It is important to note there has been a lot of upgauging on the route. A few years ago, the route was exclusively ERJ-140's. Now it is a mix of about half CRJ2's and CRJ7's. Over all, seat capacity is about the same.



I'm not complaining, I'm critiquing...
User currently offlineEricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1900 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (5 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 8043 times:

Quoting realsim (Reply 8):
West of PHX, only EUG and RDM are served from LAX and not from PHX, and they are LAX orientated.

FWIW, there are a few more served by Horizon via AS code share such as MFR, STS, MMH.

Quoting jmc1975 (Reply 3):
while PHX will play the role of a 300-350 flight/day hub.

Based on the current schedule, this means a buildup of about 50 flights daily. Where do you think they are going to add frequencies / routes that are not already served?

Quoting AABB777 (Reply 22):
Flying via PHX on US is certainly a product downgrade for a premium customer. However, AA has the data to support the ending of LAX-SBA, but I am still surprised.

How is this a product downgrade? The onboard service on US will be in alignment with AA's on April 1st (I believe this is the target date). In addition, there are more domestic connection options out of PHX than LAX. The only big downside of this move is the loss of connectioms to international flights out of LAX. It is apparent that SBA pax bound for destinations along the west coast were taking other carriers anyways.


User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32624 posts, RR: 72
Reply 25, posted (5 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 8322 times:

Quoting a380787 (Reply 13):
SBA-LAX-MEL becomes SBA-PHX-LAX-MEL ? or worse ... expect the pax to drive the 100 miles down to LAX ?

Nobody has to drive. Shuttle busses run between Santa Barbara and LAX even more frequently than airplanes do, and it's probably quicker and cheaper.



a.
User currently offlinea380787 From Canada, joined Jul 2013, 964 posts, RR: 0
Reply 26, posted (5 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 8258 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 25):
Nobody has to drive. Shuttle busses run between Santa Barbara and LAX even more frequently than airplanes do, and it's probably quicker and cheaper.

Yes, that's the perfect solution for the rich retirees at SBA


User currently offlineWhatUsaid From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 663 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (5 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 8392 times:

SBA-LAX-ORD is bookable in May and June... Has AA officially said anything about pulling the route down?

User currently offlineAABB777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 528 posts, RR: 0
Reply 28, posted (5 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 8321 times:
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Quoting EricR (Reply 24):
Quoting AABB777 (Reply 22):
Flying via PHX on US is certainly a product downgrade for a premium customer. However, AA has the data to support the ending of LAX-SBA, but I am still surprised.

How is this a product downgrade? The onboard service on US will be in alignment with AA's on April 1st (I believe this is the target date). In addition, there are more domestic connection options out of PHX than LAX. The only big downside of this move is the loss of connectioms to international flights out of LAX. It is apparent that SBA pax bound for destinations along the west coast were taking other carriers anyways.

Regardless of the US product alignment, it's a downgrade for an AA premium pax who today travels on the A321T JFK-LAX and now, with the AA LAX-SBA cancellation, will have to transit through PHX to SBA on US. In addition to the AA 321T, the AA hard product on the 737 is superior to what US offers on their fleet.

I still think something is going on here with LAX-SBA, especially if - as somebody above claims - SBA is still bookable via LAX on AA in May.


User currently offlinepsa1011 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 292 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (5 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 8271 times:
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I think it may be that UA already owns the market. If looking at frequency alone, UA runs 7x daily, while AA is 4x. People may already be used to using UA to SFO, PS to JFK, etc. Perhaps this is also why AA cut LAX-CLD years ago...

User currently offlinejmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3253 posts, RR: 15
Reply 30, posted (5 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 8203 times:

Quoting EricR (Reply 24):
Based on the current schedule, this means a buildup of about 50 flights daily. Where do you think they are going to add frequencies / routes that are not already served?

Increased buildup by recapturing some local O&D traffic from WN to such markets as LAX,SNA,SAN,ABQ,ELP.

New/resumed service largely driven by strengthened FF bases in the given O&Ds to markets such as MAF,LBB,AMA,ROW,SAF(replacing LAX),COS,MTJ,EGE,RDM,EUG; even the possibility of OKC,TUL,ICT,BNA,RDU in the longer-term. PHX will be a strategic hub that allows AA to further connect the dots that helps give it the strengthened network it needs in the West.

[Edited 2014-02-25 13:56:52]


.......
User currently offlineTomassjc From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 848 posts, RR: 2
Reply 31, posted (5 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 8184 times:
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Quoting psa1011 (Reply 29):
I think it may be that UA already owns the market

UA has owned SBA since the 50s!



When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward -Leonardo DaVinci
User currently offlineMIflyer12 From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 971 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (5 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 8083 times:

Quoting a380787 (Reply 26):
Yes, that's the perfect solution for the rich retirees at SBA

What solutions do you propose, if not market based? If there are enough retirees in SBA with a propensity to spend money on air travel, resources will be allocated to serve them.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26376 posts, RR: 76
Reply 33, posted (5 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 8109 times:

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 2):
SBA-LAX is under 100 miles, which means it really only exists for connections.

Not really. SBA-LAX is a 2 hour drive, in the best possible traffic conditions, and those rarely exist.

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 2):
Previously, routes like ONT-LAX and SNA-LAX were dropped because the distance wasn't much more than an hour's drive. I am guessing that the same thing is happening here.

ONT-LAX and SNA-LAX are less than half the distance to drive and better connected by transport options.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 25):
Shuttle busses run between Santa Barbara and LAX even more frequently than airplanes do, and it's probably quicker and cheaper.

Its not quicker and not necessarily cheaper, though price sensitivity isn't exactly an issue in Santa Barbara, except for the UCSB students who are already taking the shuttle or the train anyway. In fact, the airporter buses often route with stops in Southern Santa Barbara County and Ventura County.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32624 posts, RR: 72
Reply 34, posted (5 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 8001 times:

Quoting a380787 (Reply 26):
Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 25):Nobody has to drive. Shuttle busses run between Santa Barbara and LAX even more frequently than airplanes do, and it's probably quicker and cheaper.
Yes, that's the perfect solution for the rich retirees at SBA

You mean the ones already taking limo services to LAX anyway?



a.
User currently offlinepsa1011 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 292 posts, RR: 0
Reply 35, posted (5 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 7988 times:
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Quoting Tomassjc (Reply 31):
UA has owned SBA since the 50s!

Interesting. Looking at the UA schedules at SBA it definitely looks that way.

7x LAX
9x SFO
2x DEN

For a total of 18x, vs. a total of 4x on AA (and until a year or two ago, UA was even serving SJC-SBA). I can understand why UA would have already been the airline of choice.


User currently offlinea380787 From Canada, joined Jul 2013, 964 posts, RR: 0
Reply 36, posted (5 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 7972 times:

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 32):

What solutions do you propose, if not market based? If there are enough retirees in SBA with a propensity to spend money on air travel, resources will be allocated to serve them.

Learn how to capture the market properly ... the market definitely exists (UA flies to 3 hubs from SBA), but AA is failing to capture their fair share

Same issue with ORD-NRT ... UA capturing well and upsizing to 744 .... AA not capturing well and go 5x weekly.

But in all fairness .... UA has those tiny E120 to fly the route (it's shocking that UA has 10x daily SBA-SFO)


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26376 posts, RR: 76
Reply 37, posted (5 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 7930 times:

Quoting a380787 (Reply 36):
But in all fairness .... UA has those tiny E120 to fly the route (it's shocking that UA has 10x daily SBA-SFO)

Nothing shocking about it. The E120 is perfect for most of the day.

Quoting psa1011 (Reply 35):
(and until a year or two ago, UA was even serving SJC-SBA).

SJC-SBA was an at-risk route for OO and mainly existed to serve those Silicon Valley types that had enough money to commute/have a second home in Santa Barbara, but not so much that they had private planes. Since it didn't have connectivity, UA wasn't about to make it FPD and I think OO had other things to do with their (sadly) dwindling Brasilia fleet.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32624 posts, RR: 72
Reply 38, posted (5 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 7857 times:

Quoting a380787 (Reply 36):
Same issue with ORD-NRT ... UA capturing well and upsizing to 744 .... AA not capturing well and go 5x weekly.

AA operates the route 12x weekly under JBA with JAL, just as UA actually has 21x weekly under JBA with ANA.



a.
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26376 posts, RR: 76
Reply 39, posted (5 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 7671 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 34):
You mean the ones already taking limo services to LAX anyway?

The ones buying plane tickets.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32624 posts, RR: 72
Reply 40, posted (5 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 7686 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 39):
Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 34):You mean the ones already taking limo services to LAX anyway?
The ones buying plane tickets.

Which clearly isn't sufficient right now on AA to support the service, if it is indeed ending (It's still in GDS).

I don't see why people are shocked to see such a short route end. All the majors have been killing these routes over the past decade. I'm surprised it's still around on any airline.



a.
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26376 posts, RR: 76
Reply 41, posted (5 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 7656 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 40):
Which clearly isn't sufficient right now on AA to support the service, if it is indeed ending (It's still in GDS).

Well, AA uses a ridiculously inefficient aircraft to handle the route.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 40):
I don't see why people are shocked to see such a short route end. All the majors have been killing these routes over the past decade. I'm surprised it's still around on any airline.

LAX-SAN sticks around, and is basically the same length - only with better transport connections and better service to the smaller airport. Also, SBA is a very high income area, as well as one with few transport options.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlinepsa1011 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 292 posts, RR: 0
Reply 42, posted (5 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 7578 times:
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Quoting N1120A (Reply 41):
LAX-SAN sticks around, and is basically the same length - only with better transport connections and better service to the smaller airport. Also, SBA is a very high income area, as well as one with few transport options.

I think the SAN case is different, since traffic between LA County and SD County can turn a 2hr trip into a 5hr trip. Amtrak is the only public transport, and even that only goes to downtown LA, not LAX (and takes 2h45min). No airport buses run between the two places, since I think most realize that San Diegans are more than well aware of the traffic risks on the 5 and 405.

Santa Barbara, on the other hand, might be slightly closer to LAX, and while the 101 might get terrible, I doubt it ever gets as bad as 5/405 to SD. Additionally, I think Santa Barabarans are historically more used to going to LA, and vice a versa.

And per my previous posts, this in combination with UA dominance means that AA found the SBA route not worth it, I think.


User currently offlinerealsim From Spain, joined Apr 2010, 645 posts, RR: 0
Reply 43, posted (5 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 7595 times:

Quoting Tomassjc (Reply 31):
UA has owned SBA since the 50s!

 

I don't disagree that UA is the largest and predominant carrier at SBA, but looking at the last annual statistics provided by SBA Airport, their market share was 44%. AA had a 16% and US a 21%, so the combined market share would be close to 40%.

http://www.flysba.com/userfiles/file/PDFs/2012_01_18_Passenger_Count_-_December_-_2011.pdf

And if we look at the DOT data for the latest American Eagle records before Skywest replaced them as AE, AA had a 50% market share for the LAX-SBA route.

[Edited 2014-02-25 15:52:18]

User currently offline777stl From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3576 posts, RR: 3
Reply 44, posted (5 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 7476 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 4):
We will continue to see this rationalization, including very possibly PHX routes ending to be served only from LAX. Hub closures are a few years off.

AA has promised state leaders three years of grace before any significant cuts take place at PHX. Figure Q1 2017 is when you might see the first major changes.

Quoting jmc1975 (Reply 3):
This is just the beginning of the transition to the role that LAX will serve as an O&D focus city / international gateway while PHX will play the role of a 300-350 flight/day hub.

I'm not quite that optimistic. PHX won't play second fiddle to LAX at anything. Not transpac, not internationally, not to Hawaii, not to Europe, not to Oceana, not even domestically......nowhere.



PHX based
User currently offlineBeardown91737 From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 511 posts, RR: 0
Reply 45, posted (5 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5888 times:

Quoting AABB777 (Reply 28):
Regardless of the US product alignment, it's a downgrade for an AA premium pax who today travels on the A321T JFK-LAX and now, with the AA LAX-SBA cancellation, will have to transit through PHX to SBA on US. In addition to the AA 321T, the AA hard product on the 737 is superior to what US offers on their fleet.

How much exposure have PMAA fliers from SBA had to 737s? How much could they know about the recently delivered A321s?

Quoting jmc1975 (Reply 30):
New/resumed service largely driven by strengthened FF bases in the given O&Ds to markets such as MAF,LBB,AMA,ROW,SAF(replacing LAX),COS,MTJ,EGE,RDM,EUG; even the possibility of OKC,TUL,ICT,BNA,RDU in the longer-term. PHX will be a strategic hub that allows AA to further connect the dots that helps give it the strengthened network it needs in the West.

They will need to do something to replace the UA codeshares to places like EUG, MFR, COS, etc.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 33):
ONT-LAX and SNA-LAX are less than half the distance to drive and better connected by transport options.

I live 6 miles north of ONT. I am not familiar with the transport options, unless it is a 2 hour van ride or a commuter train followed by two light rail rides. Personally I would rather sit in DEN, SFO, PHX, or LAS than go two hours in the wrong direction in a van just to get a non-stop. Also, it makes sense that there is O/D traffic on SBA-PHX. This is the part of route rationalization where The New Management keeps productive routes and cuts ones that aren't.

Quoting realsim (Reply 43):
AA had a 16% and US a 21%, so the combined market share would be close to 40%.

It would only be close to 40% if you keep the PMUS traffic to PHX, which still had a higher market share than the PMAA traffic. Some of that traffic could defect to UA with US leaving Star and the UA codeshare.



135 hrs PIC (mostly PA-28) - not current. Landings at MDW, PIA, JAN.
User currently offlineTomassjc From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 848 posts, RR: 2
Reply 46, posted (5 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5620 times:
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Quoting realsim (Reply 43):
I don't disagree that UA is the largest and predominant carrier at SBA, but looking at the last annual statistics provided by SBA Airport, their market share was 44%. AA had a 16% and US a 21%, so the combined market share would be close to 40%.

I wasn't speaking so much in terms of market share, but the fact that UA has served SBA since the mid 1930s.

Tomas SJC



When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward -Leonardo DaVinci
User currently offlineAABB777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 528 posts, RR: 0
Reply 47, posted (5 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5467 times:
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Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 45):

How much exposure have PMAA fliers from SBA had to 737s? How much could they know about the recently delivered A321s?

PMAA fliers know a lot about the 737, as it's the workhorse for a lot of LAX flying. This is true primarily for premium and frequent business travelers who can differentiate between S80/737 equipment.

Regarding the new A321T product, AA has been promoting this a lot to their FFs. Regardless of the 321T, premium customers on JFK-LAX are used to three-class widebody service. Flying PMUS through PHX to SBA is indeed a product downgrade. I also don't know many premium pax who will want to make the trek to LAX for international flights (which would be a double connect through PHX) and deal with traffic/parking/car rentals, etc. Is a Business Class flier based in SBA now supposed to drive to LAX for their CX flight to HKG?


User currently offlineWALmsp From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 143 posts, RR: 0
Reply 48, posted (5 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5350 times:

The curious part for me is that flights are scheduled to be discontinued April 1, but my ticketed flight from SBA to LAS via LAX in June is still showing on the AA website. I have not received any email stipulating changes in my itinerary.   


In memory of my Dad, Robert "Bob" Fenrich, WAL 1964-1979, MSP ONT LAX
User currently offlineRaventech From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 49 posts, RR: 0
Reply 49, posted (5 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5278 times:

Quoting AABB777 (Reply 47):
Flying PMUS through PHX to SBA is indeed a product downgrade. I also don't know many premium pax who will want to make the trek to LAX for international flights (which would be a double connect through PHX) and deal with traffic/parking/car rentals, etc. Is a Business Class flier based in SBA now supposed to drive to LAX for their CX flight to HKG?

But how many passengers actually connect internationally or are going to JFK, if its very little then their passengers are going to be equally served by a PHX connection as a LAX connection. True that you scenario is a potential problem but if a grand total of 5 people actually go to an international flight per year from SBA, then I highly doubt their revenue covers the loss every other time. Same with JFK, if there actually is a lot of traffic between the two then they would be dumb to cut it but I doubt that is the case.


User currently offlineBeardown91737 From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 511 posts, RR: 0
Reply 50, posted (5 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5046 times:

Quoting AABB777 (Reply 47):
Is a Business Class flier based in SBA now supposed to drive to LAX for their CX flight to HKG?

According to AA, the answer is they will need to find ground transportation of some type.

I have thought there should be a water taxi from SBA, Ventura, Oxnard, and somewhere in OC to LAX. The problem is that there is a butterfly habitat to the west, but maybe the taxis could go into a tunnel, which would solve the problem of getting from sea level to field elevation. The alternative would be to use Ballona Creek, but then LAWA would have to cut some kind of Westchester Canal to get from there to the terminal.



135 hrs PIC (mostly PA-28) - not current. Landings at MDW, PIA, JAN.
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24893 posts, RR: 46
Reply 51, posted (5 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4841 times:

AA spokesman confirms the cut.

American Airlines to stop flying to LAX from SBA
http://www.pacbiztimes.com/2014/02/2...es-to-stop-flying-to-lax-from-sba/

Says part of broader nationwide restructuring of routes.

SBA-PHX will be served 5x daily which will offer 60% more beyond connection opportunities than the LAX service.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26376 posts, RR: 76
Reply 52, posted (5 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4814 times:

Quoting psa1011 (Reply 42):
I think the SAN case is different, since traffic between LA County and SD County can turn a 2hr trip into a 5hr trip. Amtrak is the only public transport, and even that only goes to downtown LA, not LAX (and takes 2h45min).

Amtrak is fast, reliable and efficient and connects to the FlyAway, which is quite easy.

Quoting psa1011 (Reply 42):

Santa Barbara, on the other hand, might be slightly closer to LAX, and while the 101 might get terrible, I doubt it ever gets as bad as 5/405 to SD.

Ever try and leave Santa Barbara on a Sunday afternoon? Drive through the Valley and THEN have to brave the Sepulveda Pass? Nightmare.

Also, SD has a much better served airport than SBA and has both ONT and SNA as alternatives. SBA has BUR, and that's it for a place with any sort of significant traffic.

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 45):

I live 6 miles north of ONT. I am not familiar with the transport options, unless it is a 2 hour van ride or a commuter train followed by two light rail rides.

Do people forget the FlyAway exists?

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 50):
I have thought there should be a water taxi from SBA, Ventura, Oxnard, and somewhere in OC to LAX. The problem is that there is a butterfly habitat to the west,

Boats are too slow.

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 50):
The alternative would be to use Ballona Creek, but then LAWA would have to cut some kind of Westchester Canal to get from there to the terminal.

That's not going to happen. Playa Vista did enough damage to those wetlands.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineBeardown91737 From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 511 posts, RR: 0
Reply 53, posted (5 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4617 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 52):
Do people forget the FlyAway exists?

Didn't forget. Never knew about it. What is it?

Quoting N1120A (Reply 52):
That's not going to happen. Playa Vista did enough damage to those wetlands.

it was not a serious proposal.



135 hrs PIC (mostly PA-28) - not current. Landings at MDW, PIA, JAN.
User currently offlineWhatUsaid From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 663 posts, RR: 0
Reply 54, posted (5 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4529 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 51):

AA spokesman confirms the cut.

American Airlines to stop flying to LAX from SBA
http://www.pacbiztimes.com/2014/02/2...es-to-stop-flying-to-lax-from-sba/

Says part of broader nationwide restructuring of routes.

SBA-PHX will be served 5x daily which will offer 60% more beyond connection opportunities than the LAX service.

But, the spin masters at AA fail to mention that unless they upgrade to all '900's, there's not sufficient capacity on their existing PHX flights to cover what's lost by cutting LAX. Even upgrading won't offset the seats lost. SBA takes a hit.


User currently offlineWALmsp From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 143 posts, RR: 0
Reply 55, posted (5 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4320 times:

I called AA reservations yesterday to ask how this will affected my already-ticketed SBA-LAX-LAS flight in late June and they were unaware of any changes to the system. Apparently word has not yet trickled down internally. Online options show SBA-PHX-LAS or the miles-friendly SBA-PHX-LAX-LAS. I assume as the date get closer, my reservation will be transferred to one of these options.


In memory of my Dad, Robert "Bob" Fenrich, WAL 1964-1979, MSP ONT LAX
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24893 posts, RR: 46
Reply 56, posted (5 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4302 times:

Quoting WhatUsaid (Reply 54):
But, the spin masters at AA fail to mention that unless they upgrade to all '900's, there's not sufficient capacity on their existing PHX flights to cover what's lost by cutting LAX. Even upgrading won't offset the seats lost. SBA takes a hit.

Who says AA even wants all the traffic? Cutting the LAX flying and some portion of the spill via PHX might be part of the broader goal to raise performance and maximize earning. Constricting capacity can be a good thing.

I think AA-US have enough data to work out the optimal solution for their needs.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineLDVAviation From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 1048 posts, RR: 5
Reply 57, posted (5 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4188 times:

Quoting AABB777 (Reply 47):
Is a Business Class flier based in SBA now supposed to drive to LAX for their CX flight to HKG?

How many passengers on a daily basis is that? Seriously?


User currently offlineAABB777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 528 posts, RR: 0
Reply 58, posted (5 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4211 times:
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Quoting WALmsp (Reply 55):
I called AA reservations yesterday to ask how this will affected my already-ticketed SBA-LAX-LAS flight in late June and they were unaware of any changes to the system. Apparently word has not yet trickled down internally.

I too have a flight booked from SBA in late April (SBA-LAX-IAD) and called today about the change. The agent was unaware of the route cancellation and the flight was still showing as operating.


User currently offlinejmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3253 posts, RR: 15
Reply 59, posted (5 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4068 times:

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 57):
Quoting AABB777 (Reply 47):
Is a Business Class flier based in SBA now supposed to drive to LAX for their CX flight to HKG?

How many passengers on a daily basis is that? Seriously?

The entire SBA-HKG market is roughly 1 PDEW. That person's got it rough!



.......
User currently offlineAADC10 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2073 posts, RR: 0
Reply 60, posted (5 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3795 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 4):
AA is under pretty heavy gate restraints at LAX that will continue through the end of 2015.

Why would the gate constraints end in 2015? If anything it might get worse combined with US. The split T3/T-4 operations with TW were a pain back in their day. The gates they will have access to at TBIT will not help that much since AA will not have exclusive use.


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5367 posts, RR: 12
Reply 61, posted (5 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3717 times:

Hmmmm, what I take away from this topic is that it seems to me like a great opportunity for AS to start flying nonstop SBA to SAN...

  

bb


User currently offlineLDVAviation From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 1048 posts, RR: 5
Reply 62, posted (5 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3655 times:

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 60):
Why would the gate constraints end in 2015? If anything it might get worse combined with US. The split T3/T-4 operations with TW were a pain back in their day. The gates they will have access to at TBIT will not help that much since AA will not have exclusive use.

The TBIT gates will help a lot. The "exclusive" tag is inconsequential.

From what I have heard, if AA and US combined ops at T4 (without any reduction in service), that would hypothetically translate into 8 to 9 turns per gate. On peak days now, AA runs about 7 turns per gate. The recommended standard is 8 turns per gate.

(I also think AA will hold onto the one gate in T3 regardless of what happens. It may translate into rights for other gates in the future.)

[Edited 2014-03-01 15:40:29]

User currently offlineWingtips56 From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 367 posts, RR: 0
Reply 63, posted (5 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3572 times:

Quoting WALmsp (Reply 55):

I called AA reservations yesterday to ask how this will affected my already-ticketed SBA-LAX-LAS flight in late June and they were unaware of any changes to the system. Apparently word has not yet trickled down internally. Online options show SBA-PHX-LAS or the miles-friendly SBA-PHX-LAX-LAS. I assume as the date get closer, my reservation will be transferred to one of these options.

RES doesn't see or know anything until after Schedule Change is run, which is in the wee hours Sundays. If the flights are changed or eliminated, then the reservations run through re-accommodation or are spit out. RES can't make any change until this happens (if it happens). To bail before this would be on your nickel as a voluntary change.



Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7233 posts, RR: 17
Reply 64, posted (5 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3581 times:

And many of you actually thought that LAX would be a viable West Coast hub   

Seriously, none of you should be surprised. At least for this route.



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlineAA94 From United States of America, joined Aug 2011, 579 posts, RR: 2
Reply 65, posted (5 months 2 days ago) and read 3529 times:

Quoting AABB777 (Reply 28):
Quoting AABB777 (Reply 47):
Is a Business Class flier based in SBA now supposed to drive to LAX for their CX flight to HKG?

I can't help but laugh at this. I don't mean to be rude, but you act like all other means of getting to LAX have burned away in a fiery hell and the MQ flight was the last hope for everyone in Santa Barbara.

If they're that rich, they can take a helicopter or a private jet, or, god forbid, drive, to LAX. If SBA-LAX is really chock full of premium traffic like you and others suggest, I doubt we'd be seeing AA axing the route.

The sole PDEW pax who uses that MQ flight to connect onwards HKG doesn't justify keeping the entire route open.

[Edited 2014-03-01 19:09:45]


Choose a challenge over competence / Eleanor Roosevelt
User currently offlineWALmsp From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 143 posts, RR: 0
Reply 66, posted (5 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3425 times:

Quoting WALmsp (Reply 55):

I called AA reservations yesterday to ask how this will affected my already-ticketed SBA-LAX-LAS flight in late June and they were unaware of any changes to the system. Apparently word has not yet trickled down internally. Online options show SBA-PHX-LAS or the miles-friendly SBA-PHX-LAX-LAS. I assume as the date get closer, my reservation will be transferred to one of these options.
Quoting Wingtips56 (Reply 63):
RES doesn't see or know anything until after Schedule Change is run, which is in the wee hours Sundays. If the flights are changed or eliminated, then the reservations run through re-accommodation or are spit out. RES can't make any change until this happens (if it happens). To bail before this would be on your nickel as a voluntary change.


I won't make a change until they say I have to (I like my nickels         ). I just wanted to see if they knew how this would affect my reservation. Based on your info, maybe they'll know next week.



In memory of my Dad, Robert "Bob" Fenrich, WAL 1964-1979, MSP ONT LAX
User currently offlineMikeNYC From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 12 posts, RR: 0
Reply 67, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2858 times:

I fly this route regularly and a piliot/ground crew mentioned something interesting and I just read about the growth of Mesa ... I wonder if it has any validity - Mesa Air in Phoenix is getting ready to move into LAX and start servicing AAEagle - with this being the case AAEagle via Skywest is being phased out to make room for Mesa to run their LA Operations.

With this info AAEalge (Skywest) is leaving SBA but will return with Mesa?

The history is AAEagle was in SB then moved to all Skywest last year.

Could this be happening?


User currently offlinerealsim From Spain, joined Apr 2010, 645 posts, RR: 0
Reply 68, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2843 times:

Quoting MikeNYC (Reply 67):
I fly this route regularly and a piliot/ground crew mentioned something interesting and I just read about the growth of Mesa ... I wonder if it has any validity - Mesa Air in Phoenix is getting ready to move into LAX and start servicing AAEagle - with this being the case AAEagle via Skywest is being phased out to make room for Mesa to run their LA Operations.

The Mesa LAX rumor is indeed real, but if anything Mesa will replace current Eagle CR7 flights with their CR9s. The contract with OO runs until 2016 or 2017 IIRC. LAX-ASE will still be needed to be flown by Eagle.

[Edited 2014-03-10 07:50:23]

User currently offlinedurangomac From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 703 posts, RR: 0
Reply 69, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2704 times:

Quoting MikeNYC (Reply 67):
I fly this route regularly and a piliot/ground crew mentioned something interesting and I just read about the growth of Mesa ... I wonder if it has any validity - Mesa Air in Phoenix is getting ready to move into LAX and start servicing AAEagle - with this being the case AAEagle via Skywest is being phased out to make room for Mesa to run their LA Operations.

With this info AAEalge (Skywest) is leaving SBA but will return with Mesa?

The history is AAEagle was in SB then moved to all Skywest last year.

Could this be happening?

The only route that is being dropped from OO as American Eagle is LAX-SBA. If YV is moving into LAX it will be to take over MQ's flying or open up new routes. LAX-SBA was not profitable and the reason it's being discontinued. OO actually has been running it at-risk for a little bit and it just doesn't make since on the AA system.


User currently offlineWALmsp From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 143 posts, RR: 0
Reply 70, posted (4 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2367 times:

Quoting WALmsp (Reply 55):

I called AA reservations yesterday to ask how this will affected my already-ticketed SBA-LAX-LAS flight in late June and they were unaware of any changes to the system. Apparently word has not yet trickled down internally. Online options show SBA-PHX-LAS or the miles-friendly SBA-PHX-LAX-LAS. I assume as the date get closer, my reservation will be transferred to one of these options.

Just got an email from AA: The SBA-LAX portion of my itinerary has been transferred to UEx with a 5 hour layover on the return!



In memory of my Dad, Robert "Bob" Fenrich, WAL 1964-1979, MSP ONT LAX
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26376 posts, RR: 76
Reply 71, posted (4 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2046 times:

Of course, a lot of this is the short sighted nature of the heavily RJing of fleets

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 53):
Didn't forget. Never knew about it. What is it?

Express bus from Union Station to LAX.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlinewashingtonflyer From Bouvet Island, joined Sep 2013, 461 posts, RR: 0
Reply 72, posted (4 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1897 times:

IMO, this is a perfect opportunity for a Q300. 100 miles? What a waste of expensive RJ resources.

User currently offlineWingtips56 From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 367 posts, RR: 0
Reply 73, posted (4 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1734 times:

Quoting WALmsp (Reply 70):
Just got an email from AA: The SBA-LAX portion of my itinerary has been transferred to UEx with a 5 hour layover on the return!

Yuck. Call AA and work with them on a more satisfactory routing, as they have to make an effort to provide you with an acceptable rerouting. It probably ran through automated re-accom, which keeps as much of the original itinerary as unchanged as possible. There may not be anything better, but work it. Perhaps a later inbound flight or different times altogether to minimize the layover time. On a market withdrawal, though, protection is usually subject to a specific agreement with another carrier to accept the ticket in advance as a Schedule Change, rather than an Involuntary Reroute on day of departure, such as for a delayed or canceled flight, in which more procedural options are available, and the entire new routing could be on another airline.

(No, I don't miss my old job!)



Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines
User currently offlineAABB777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 528 posts, RR: 0
Reply 74, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 1581 times:
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Quoting Wingtips56 (Reply 73):
Quoting WALmsp (Reply 70):
Just got an email from AA: The SBA-LAX portion of my itinerary has been transferred to UEx with a 5 hour layover on the return!

Yuck. Call AA and work with them on a more satisfactory routing, as they have to make an effort to provide you with an acceptable rerouting. It probably ran through automated re-accom, which keeps as much of the original itinerary as unchanged as possible. There may not be anything better, but work it. Perhaps a later inbound flight or different times altogether to minimize the layover time. On a market withdrawal, though, protection is usually subject to a specific agreement with another carrier to accept the ticket in advance as a Schedule Change, rather than an Involuntary Reroute on day of departure, such as for a delayed or canceled flight, in which more procedural options are available, and the entire new routing could be on another airline.

AA will put you on UA SBA-LAX if 'Q' Class is available on UA. I suggest you call AA and try to get a better flight option.

Also, for April 2014 Santa Barbara is on the cover of the US Airways inflight magazine. It's still unfortunate that Eagle is ending the LAX-SBA route. Flying international from SBA will be a pain: either a double connect through PHX or a drive down to LAX.


User currently offlineWALmsp From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 143 posts, RR: 0
Reply 75, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1497 times:

Thanks guys, I am planning to call AA, just haven't got to it yet. I've spent the past week preparing a paper for a conference (I am a grad student at UCSB) and I finally finished it last night. Now I have time for phone calls, opening a week's worth of mail, etc. A 5 hour hour layover is a little long for a 45 minute flight!


In memory of my Dad, Robert "Bob" Fenrich, WAL 1964-1979, MSP ONT LAX
User currently offlinewashingtonflyer From Bouvet Island, joined Sep 2013, 461 posts, RR: 0
Reply 76, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1443 times:

You don't need to study. You have Isla Vista...

User currently offlineBeardown91737 From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 511 posts, RR: 0
Reply 77, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1407 times:

Quoting AABB777 (Reply 74):
Flying international from SBA will be a pain: either a double connect through PHX or a drive down to LAX.


only a pain on AA

or I should say.. only that kind of pain on AA. UA can make it another kind of pain.



135 hrs PIC (mostly PA-28) - not current. Landings at MDW, PIA, JAN.
User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9297 posts, RR: 14
Reply 78, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1359 times:

All of this over a 45 minute flight? Jeesh you would think AA is stopping ORD-DFW or something.

Just be happy you have SBA flights at all. Try getting to SBA/MRY on Delta.  



yep.
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5793 posts, RR: 15
Reply 79, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 1322 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 78):
Just be happy you have SBA flights at all. Try getting to SBA/MRY on Delta.

Ending the American Eagle codeshare at LAX in 2012 took its toll on DL's presence in the smaller California markets (SBA/MRY/FAT). Even though DL kept a couple of RJs to SLC at Fresno instead of totally withdrawing here, that has not worked for my travel needs. I'm a former PM ending up on AA and UA these days instead of DL.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineWALmsp From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 143 posts, RR: 0
Reply 80, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 1269 times:

Quoting washingtonflyer (Reply 76):
You don't need to study. You have Isla Vista...

IV is for the undergrads and I avoid it whenever possible!



In memory of my Dad, Robert "Bob" Fenrich, WAL 1964-1979, MSP ONT LAX
User currently offlinediverdave From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 321 posts, RR: 0
Reply 81, posted (4 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1017 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 78):
All of this over a 45 minute flight? Jeesh you would think AA is stopping ORD-DFW or something.

The 45 minute flight can be far shorter than the drive on the heavily congested 405 and 101 freeways.

In any case, thank you AA for ending this service without adding capacity PHX-SBA. I have a trip in two weeks and cannot get a morning flight out of SBA on AA/US for the return.

So I will either have to fly UA or fly in/out of LAX for that trip.

David


User currently offlineAABB777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 528 posts, RR: 0
Reply 82, posted (4 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 903 times:
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I am still scratching my head that Eagle (OO) is ending SBA-LAX completely. They should have trimmed the schedule to 2x daily to connect to int'l/transcon banks from LAX and let PHX handle the rest. Eagle did a bad job managing this withdraw, they didn't even notify local government officials of the route cut. It's a huge loss for AA SBA-based FFs. I suspect AA will lose some longtime loyal customers to UA.

User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26376 posts, RR: 76
Reply 83, posted (4 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 774 times:

Quoting AA94 (Reply 65):
If SBA-LAX is really chock full of premium traffic like you and others suggest, I doubt we'd be seeing AA axing the route.

Its more that they didn't have the right plane in place. Dumping the Saabs from LAX really hurt their ability to compete



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineAABB777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 528 posts, RR: 0
Reply 84, posted (4 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 755 times:
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Quoting N1120A (Reply 83):
Quoting AA94 (Reply 65):
If SBA-LAX is really chock full of premium traffic like you and others suggest, I doubt we'd be seeing AA axing the route.

Its more that they didn't have the right plane in place. Dumping the Saabs from LAX really hurt their ability to compete

True. Maybe the route will be re-launched if new equipment is introduced at LAX that would allow Eagle to operate LAX-SBA more efficiently/economically.


User currently offlineYflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1003 posts, RR: 1
Reply 85, posted (4 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 713 times:

That kind of begs the question -- what will UA do with that route once SkyWest retires the E120s?

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