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BA Likes A380 (and 787)  
User currently offlinetrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4741 posts, RR: 14
Posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 29302 times:
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http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...80-and-787-economics-walsh-396458/

Parent company IAG’s chief executive, Willie Walsh, speaking during a full-year results presentation, said the aircraft were performing “in line, if not slightly better, than we would have expected”.

Walsh says technical reliability is ahead of expectations and the company has experienced a “significant reduction of seat costs” with the A380 compared with its Boeing 747-400s.

OMG what will come next! Who would have thought that possible!!!   

97 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineastuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 9997 posts, RR: 96
Reply 1, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 29281 times:
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Quoting trex8 (Thread starter):
BA Likes A380

such a shame they're supposedly cancelling them then, isn't it?   

rgds


User currently onlinepar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7113 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 29233 times:

Quoting trex8 (Thread starter):
OMG what will come next! Who would have thought that possible!!!

Look on the bright side, at least we do not have to question the mentality of BA management purchasing new a/c which provide no benefit over the decades old 747 and 767 a/c presently in use.
Good job.


User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1817 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 29181 times:

Concensus on this site is that the 787 is a turd, BA is talking a lot of trash these days..

User currently offlineraggi From Norway, joined Oct 2000, 998 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 28883 times:

Do we know how they like their 77Ws?


Stick & Rudder
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 11167 posts, RR: 33
Reply 5, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 28392 times:

And to promote the new A380 and 787 fleets, BA introduced a new website:

http://ournewplanes.ba.com/en



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10677 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 28299 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 5):

And to promote the new A380 and 787 fleets, BA introduced a new website:

http://ournewplanes.ba.com/en

I dont know if it needs the naked woman in white linen. Nothing against pretty women but its time-waster here imho.

Anyway, not bad, and much better than the miserable things SQ, EK, QF and others did for the A380. But also not quite as good as what LH did.


User currently onlineOldAeroGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3495 posts, RR: 66
Reply 7, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 28211 times:

Quoting raggi (Reply 4):
Do we know how they like their 77Ws?

Well, they did place follow up orders for them.



Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
User currently offlineTC957 From UK - England, joined May 2012, 841 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 28195 times:

Quoting astuteman (Reply 1):
such a shame they're supposedly cancelling them then, isn't it?

Is that just an a-net theory ? I've not seen anything from BA about this, presume you are referring to their 9th to 12th A380's on order.
I hope BA's satisfaction with their A380's will see them ordering a few more.


User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3223 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 27737 times:

Quoting na (Reply 6):
I dont know if it needs the naked woman in white linen. Nothing against pretty women but its time-waster here imho.
Quoting sweair (Reply 3):
Concensus on this site is that the 787 is a turd, BA is talking a lot of trash these days..

My sarcasm sense is tingling. Good to see they're back on track in a tough trading environment, one only need to glance at QANTAS to see what happens when things get away from you.


User currently offlinebennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7525 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 27652 times:

Lets see, anet thinks the B787 is a turd.

Airlines have bought hundreds.

I know where my money is.


User currently offlineshankly From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 1541 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 27581 times:

Post nationalisation, BA has pretty much always nailed the right aircraft for its missions.

Quoting raggi (Reply 4):
Do we know how they like their 77Ws?

They love 'em



L1011 - P F M
User currently onlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7564 posts, RR: 43
Reply 12, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 25290 times:

Quoting TC957 (Reply 8):
Is that just an a-net theory ? I've not seen anything from BA about this, presume you are referring to their 9th to 12th A380's on order.
I hope BA's satisfaction with their A380's will see them ordering a few more.

I agree TC957. Leaving speculation, armchair CEO wishes and sarcasm aside, hopefully BA will grow its A380 fleet a bit more. The congestion at LHR, a recovery of the British economy, the overall growth of the global aviation industry over the coming years and the reliability and cost-effectiveness of the A380 might just result in BA ordering a few more.



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlinethegivenone From Austria, joined Jan 2008, 192 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 24288 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 5):
And to promote the new A380 and 787 fleets, BA introduced a new website:

http://ournewplanes.ba.com/en

Interesting they didn't include the 77W as one of their "New Planes" given that it offers similar cabin refreshments and amenities.


User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30852 posts, RR: 86
Reply 14, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 24208 times:
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Quoting TC957 (Reply 8):
Is that just an a-net theory?

It's an a.net rumor from, as I understand it, a BA employee with connection to Fleet Planning.


User currently offlinetortugamon From United States of America, joined Apr 2013, 3433 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 23599 times:

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 12):
The congestion at LHR

I personally think this is overrated when it comes to BA. They just purchased BMI and netted 42 slots and they have already gained a couple by upgrading 3 747/777 slots to LAX & HKG to two A380s. The ME3 are taking a lot of connecting traffic and their growth isn't that strong. They have even mentioned a couple of times that their 747s are too big for some of the routes that they operate them on and will be trading down.

tortugamon


User currently offlinetortugamon From United States of America, joined Apr 2013, 3433 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 23096 times:

Quoting thegivenone (Reply 13):
Interesting they didn't include the 77W as one of their "New Planes" given that it offers similar cabin refreshments and amenities.

They have had the 77Ws for four years.

tortugamon


User currently offlinetonystan From Ireland, joined Jan 2006, 1421 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 22613 times:

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 16):

Not to mention that the new cabin is also available on a significant number of older B777-200s.



My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3544 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 22363 times:

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 15):
I personally think this is overrated when it comes to BA. They just purchased BMI and netted 42 slots and they have already gained a couple by upgrading 3 747/777 slots to LAX & HKG to two A380s. The ME3 are taking a lot of connecting traffic and their growth isn't that strong. They have even mentioned a couple of times that their 747s are too big for some of the routes that they operate them on and will be trading down.

This is at odds with BA's published results, 2013 saw 3.9% growth over 2012 with growth steadily increasing over the year and January 2014 saw 7% growth over the same month in 2013. This will be difficult to maintain unless the average aircraft size continues to grow.


User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6873 posts, RR: 46
Reply 19, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 22366 times:

I think there is little dispute that from a technical standpoint the A380 is performing very well. The question seems to be, can the airlines fill them. The ME3 seem to be able to; others seem to have more trouble. AF and LH in particular seem to be less than enthusiastic about them. BA, with slot-restricted LHR to deal with, should be able to make good use of some of them, and that seems to be the case. How many of their 747 fleet will be replaced by A380's and how many by something smaller remains to be seen. But it is clear that if they are happy with the performance of the planes. And I have also not heard of any problems with their 787's, unlike some other operators whose problems have proved fertile soil for a-net posts. And the stories about the 787's are pretty consistent; if they can get in the air, they perform superbly.


The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlinetortugamon From United States of America, joined Apr 2013, 3433 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 22095 times:

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 18):
This is at odds with BA's published results, 2013 saw 3.9% growth over 2012 with growth steadily increasing over the year

2012 was not a great year (flat growth if I remember correctly?) because of the movement to not travel during the olympics. Regardless, they can upgrade their fleet and capacity by their swapping A380s for 747s, A350s for 77Es and 787s for 767s. There is plenty of capacity growth there. I think they will order the 777x as well to replace some of the 747s.

Not to mention I don't think those BMI slots will stay narrow body aircraft. Surely some of those slots will be utilized differently otherwise they wouldn't have paid as much as they did.

tortugamon


User currently offlineJohnwaynebobbet From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2013, 80 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 21871 times:

The A380's cargo capacity is not ideal from the business point of view.

User currently offlinebluesky73 From UK - England, joined Oct 2012, 321 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 20865 times:

Certainly hope BA don't cancel any of the A380s, I was hoping the 7 options may join the fleet one day too.
The only reason I can see A380s being cancelled is if the 777X is ordered.

Shame BA can't speed up LH fleet renewal.


User currently offlinegarpd From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2644 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 20741 times:

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 18):
This will be difficult to maintain unless the average aircraft size continues to grow.

Your reasoning is flawed. Growth does not mean aircraft size must grow also.



arpdesign.wordpress.com
User currently offlineACES320 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 393 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 20710 times:

Belly cargo is not BA's strongest business strategy


LHR, BHX, EDI, BKK, USM, CNX, PHU, GRU,PEI, BOG, CTG, CPH, AMS, DOH, DXB, FRA, MAD and always PEI
25 blueshamu330s : For every subscriber to a.net who in the real world is in such a position of responsibility in aviation, there will always be another dozen who use t
26 ER757 : well only one of the ME3 has it in service so let's hold off judgement on that for now.
27 LHRFlyer : BA was very upbeat about the performance of the A380 this morning. One interesting reference point was LHR-LAX. In the summer 2014 season, BA can repl
28 Post contains images Ab345 : This is exactly the reason the A380 was built for and its' main purpose in my idea. Hub to hub operations for major carriers. It doesn't suit everyon
29 laca773 : It's nice to hear these new fleet additions are working out for BA. It's definitely sensible for BA to operate A380s on high demand routes with the ti
30 Bongodog1964 : In the operating circumstance of BA flying from LHR it does. They either have to purchase slots from their competitors or larger aircraft. The latter
31 Post contains images astuteman : They are flying about 50 of them though ..... A good description of how the frequency vs capacity argument isn't as simple as some make it out to be
32 Post contains images StTim : Aw come on - we arm chair CEO's only do simplistic
33 United Airline : I think eventually BA will need more than 12+5 A380s to replace its B 747-400s. Perhaps up to 25-30 A380s eventually
34 jambrain : [quote=astuteman,reply=31] role supplying capacity to satisfy a peak time demand without disturbing the other flights ]/quote] A fact very often ignor
35 Bill142 : That assumes they're going to replace them 1 for 1. Which they won't.
36 fcogafa : I have also heard this 'rumour' from an A380 crew member so it isn't just this source, although it could be the same talk doing the rounds. Contrary
37 jumpjet : I agree. If you look at the BA route network, there are surely so many that could support an A380 service. So how many 747-400s do BA have? If traffi
38 Post contains images art : For pax numbers to increase at a faster rate than extra slots extra become available the number of seats per flight has to increase. That is self evi
39 factsonly : Be careful with your statistics. The 7% growth results from the 'No-Snow' British winter. January 2014 LHR operations were not as badly affected by t
40 SKAirbus : We may have had no snow this winter but we sure as hell have had a lot of bad weather... Near-hurricane force winds on several occasions necessitatin
41 LHRFlyer : To be honest, I don't expect Willie Walsh to be too enthusiastic in public. When you have a choice of only two suppliers for new long-haul aircraft y
42 Ab345 : The company will of course still exist. I just meant it will stop using its' own frames. The three B748Fs will be returned to Atlas Air I think.[Edit
43 Post contains images astuteman : as opposed to the "No Ground" winter we've had this year? Rgds
44 par13del : Well one can also keep them away from a competitor, that's a cost reason also. So that get's you what, an additional 2% discount, with the wide diver
45 Post contains images 7BOEING7 : JAL who had a route structure similar to BAB (and more 747's) seems to be doing quiet well without any quads, ANA will soon have none, UAL has cut th
46 Post contains links art : Some airports will not be able to increase the number of slots available. I know that LHR is not by any means typical today but this extract illustra
47 glbltrvlr : A few more details from Willie Walsh comments: - BA has replaced three daily Boeing 747-400 flights from London-Heathrow to Los Angeles with two A380
48 tristarsteve : And BA has already announced that the A320 fleets will have a seat increase of 6pc with conversions starting this summer. All the old converter seats
49 sassiciai : I have owned cars since I could drive, but I never could understand what went on under the bonnet! If it had 2 or 4 or 6 valves, what did I know (or
50 ER757 : Indeed they are and doing quite well from what I'm told. If only my home airport would get their act together and upgrade their infrastructure so EK
51 N14AZ : ??? I cannot comment on AF but I never heard that LH "seem to be less than enthusiastic about" their A 380's. If you are referring to the fact that L
52 Bongodog1964 : I'm not sure that this statement has ever been said by BA, if it were true they wouldn't still be holding options.
53 tortugamon : The A380 is a 36% increase in capacity than a 747. For long haul (10+ hours) where they fly more than one 747 and have a premium clientele (LAX, SIN,
54 planesmart : With only one supplier of an A380 sized aircraft, from a negotiating perspective, airline executives should ensure all and any comments on all aspects
55 warden145 : I admit to having a strong bias, but this is how I understand it. Do the pax care? Most pax don't...they oftentimes don't even know or care what type
56 skipness1E : Sorry beancounters? You know that's condescending right? They do not line little beans up and count them. There's a lot of intelligent and rigrous an
57 glbltrvlr : Unfortunately it's behind a paywall right now, but that's a direct quote from Aviation Daily (Aviation Week). The sentence immediately prior in the a
58 glbltrvlr : It may be counter-intuitive to many people, but the overall reliability of an aircraft with 4 engines is less that an aircraft with two engines (ever
59 Flighty : Of course, here you mean the chances of no engine failure.
60 glbltrvlr : Whoops - yes, changed the math to make it clearer and forgot to change the text. You are of course correct.
61 Post contains images tortugamon : Its not about the probability your flight will leave on time its the probability that when you are over the ocean you might have to land in that ocea
62 glbltrvlr : Excluding a common failure mode (i.e. bad fuel), that's true. But the probability of a non-common simultaneous engine failure is so low as to be insi
63 Ab345 : Air Transat 236 YYZ to LIS and landed at TER ?
64 Post contains links tortugamon : Don't get me wrong, ETOPS is a good idea and a well supportable idea as well. Here are a couple dual engine outs that I think meet your criteria: Kat
65 laca773 : Thanks astuteman. I appreciate what you're saying. I know it's way more complex that how I simplified what I was saying. Additionally, I don't see BA
66 777stl : No cause cited for the engine failures. I have to believe that there was a common cause here that caused three of the four engines to stall. Three in
67 SEPilot : I have studied the two vs. four engine question extensively; as part of it I researched every crash I could find that was caused by an engine. And wha
68 SexyAdonis : It is only normal that the company is pleased with the results of the A380. If there is one airport in the world that actually fits the profile of the
69 Bongodog1964 : if its only behind a paywall BA haven't said it. IAG is a stock exchange listed company supplying important financial information without direct rele
70 KarelXWB : That cannot be correct. Airbus just allocated the next two A380s for BA (MSN 192 and 194), they will ship to the final assembly in H2 2015 meaning pr
71 glbltrvlr : I think you may be misinterpreting what was said in the article, which was that BA currently has 4 A380s flying, and will be getting 8 more. They wil
72 david_itl : so they have not reduced their order, then?
73 glbltrvlr : I haven't been following BA order status, but the AvWeek article I referenced did not say anything about BA cancelling orders.
74 KarelXWB : Then what exactly does "BA is the third airline behind Lufthansa and Air France to reduce its A380 order" mean? As far as I'm aware, that cannot be c
75 glbltrvlr : Didn't BA have options for an additional 7 A380s above the firm orders for 12? I assume that is what the reference in the article is to. Is failure t
76 Post contains images Maersk737 : It's pretty easy to get in a-net trouble Even though BA is happy with the A380, they don't want to exercise an option... It's som kind of an set setb
77 speedbored : Well that seems like a mighty stupid position to take as it would mean that every airline that places an order with options has immediately reduced t
78 Revelation : Shows that A380 has a role to fill, but not a 1:1 replacement for 744, nothing like that. Great when you can fill 318 seats at a good yield. Makes se
79 RayChuang : Personally, with BA starting to phase out their 744 fleet, I would not be surprised that the airline buys another 12 A388's, then signs up a 30-35 pla
80 glbltrvlr : That's always the trick, isn't it? If there's sufficient demand to warrant the 100 extra seats, but not enough to put another aircraft on. Or if ther
81 aryonoco : Eh? QF loves its A380s over LAX and DXB. What other aircraft do you think QF should operate on these routes?
82 SEPilot : The impression I get is that they will take the A380's they have on order, but replace the rest of the 744's with a combination of 787's and 777's. F
83 777stl : I'm curious what your qualifications are to make that assessment. I'm not going to misrepresent myself as some subject matter expert/employee, but I
84 Post contains images lightsaber : That wouldn't surprise me either. I expect, in the long run, BA to be a big 779X buyer. With a slot limited hub, BA will upgauge or at least replace
85 hibtastic : What about the A350? Is that going to be used to replace 772's? It may potentially get more orders as its larger in size, or will they go for more 78
86 United Airline : Did AF and LH reduce their A380 orders? I don't think so. I know LH cancelled one B 747-8 firm order but they still have 20-21 options BA has over 50
87 KarelXWB : They have another 18 A350-1000 options.
88 scouseflyer : There was much discussions about the exact definition of a firm order that LH and airbus had but the bad facts are the number of A380s that LH had on
89 frigatebird : Some time back BA have said they wished they'd ordered 77W's earlier.... Current plan is to replace the last batch of 744s with 18x A350 and 18x 787,
90 KarelXWB : IAG secured 32 A350-900 and 12 787-9 delivery slots for IB. Those 18 A350-1000s options are meant for BA.
91 Bongodog1964 : This is the part that myself and many others find hard to take in. With BA being slot restricted and unable to operate extra flights to make up the s
92 lightsaber : I expect quite a few 787 and A350 orders by BA in the future. That doesn't change I expect them to order more A380s and 779s. For Trunk routes to Asi
93 frigatebird : Yes, I realise A350/787s as 744 replacement seems strange. Especially since even 787-9s are part of this. It might indeed be the case the yields were
94 mjoelnir : [ BA does nor replace the B/$/-400 with B787 and A350 only, they replace the B747-400 with B787, A350 and A380. That means partly up gauging partly do
95 VV701 : BA outlined its growth plans at the IAG Capital Markets Day last November. Long-haul it was stated that average annual growth would be three per cent
96 PW100 : Aren't there currently initiatives being pursued to increase the total set of available slots, like (partial) mixed mode operations? Or are those onl
97 VV701 : There are certainly proposals to improve LHR's operating efficiency. However these proposals, such as operating runway alternation when aircraft are
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