Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2  
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11418 posts, RR: 59
Posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 154687 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Continuation of the discussion regarding MH370 flight, operated by a Boeing 777-200ER, declared missing enroute KUL-PEK.

Link to the First Thread
MH370 Malaysian Airlines B777-200ER missing enroute KUL-PEK (by Longhornmaniac Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)




Part 1 will be closed now that reaches around 250 posts.


New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
256 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMiami From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 926 posts, RR: 42
Reply 1, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 155023 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Already on Wiki..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_370



Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
User currently offlineturjo101 From Canada, joined Apr 2008, 87 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 154855 times:

How likely is mid air collision?!? I mean the ac was supposed to be close to Vietnam. Anyone know anything about Vietnam ATC?

User currently offlinewxmeddler From United States of America, joined Mar 2014, 37 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 154413 times:

CIMSS is a satellight aggregate out of Wisconsin, they just put out these two images / gifs of weather conditions in the area:

Infrared:
http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/goes/blog.../03/140307_coms1_ir_mh370_anim.gif

Water Vapor:
http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/goes/blog.../03/140307_coms1_wv_mh370_anim.gif


User currently offlineTruemanQLD From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 1512 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 154335 times:

Quoting turjo101 (Reply 2):

How likely is mid air collision?!? I mean the ac was supposed to be close to Vietnam. Anyone know anything about Vietnam ATC?

I would say very unlikely. Would have been reported by now


User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1464 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 153735 times:

The best possible outcome at this point is that the airplane ditched and that at least some survivors are floating around on rafts.

User currently offlinePROSA From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5632 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 153774 times:

Regarding the terrorism aspect ... it seems unlikely that Uyghurs would have targeted a MH aircraft, as Malaysia is an Islamic state. One of the Chinese airlines would have been a more likely target.


"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
User currently offlinehivue From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 1055 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 153131 times:

Quoting turjo101 (Reply 2):
How likely is mid air collision?!?

Current information indicates that the incident occurred while the airplane was at FL350. There have been no reports of other airliners or of military aircraft in the area having problems.


User currently offlinekl838 From Netherlands Antilles, joined Oct 2010, 119 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 153113 times:

I posted this in the other thread, but its locked now, I was asking whether or not MH would receive ACARS messages like AF did when the A330 hit the water?

User currently offlineFinn350 From Finland, joined Jul 2013, 668 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 153091 times:

Apparently, the ELTs are not transmitting or it would have been reported already. It looks very bad.

User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21522 posts, RR: 55
Reply 10, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 152461 times:

Quoting turjo101 (Reply 2):
How likely is mid air collision?!?

Not very. If it were with another plane, we'd know about it because either that plane would have survived to tell the tale, or we'd be talking about two missing planes in the same area. If it were with a bird (which is incredibly unlikely that that altitude, but there are birds that have been known to fly that high), it wouldn't have been enough to take down the airplane.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineDCAYOW From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 599 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 152479 times:

CCTV is reporting that Vietnam has detected the missing planes "signal".


Retorne ao céu...
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11418 posts, RR: 59
Reply 12, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 152466 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Breakdown of Citizenship

1. China - 152 + 1 Child
2. Malaysia - 38
3. Indonesia - 12
4. Australia - 7
5. France - 3
6. USA - 3 + 1 child
7. New Zealand - 2
8. Ukraine - 2
9. Canada - 2
10. Russia - 1
11. Italy - 1
12. Taiwan - 1
13. Holland - 1
14. Austria - 1



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineantskip From Australia, joined Jan 2006, 927 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 152450 times:

MH370 code-shared with China Southern CZ448, who provided most of the passengers. Beijing Airport is a very sad place at the moment. Must be hell for those waiting there.

[Edited 2014-03-07 19:46:22]

User currently offlinezeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 8867 posts, RR: 75
Reply 14, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 152466 times:

Normally heading out of KL on that route you are kept low as the outbound track crosses the busy Singapore inbound routes and the Bangkok Singapore route. You go from KL control to a Singapore radar on VHF, them as you get further out transfer to Singapore on datalink. Then transfer to Vietnam on datalink, often after transfer from Singapore to Vietnam you are initially out of VHF range.

They should have a good idea of the location.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineMiami From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 926 posts, RR: 42
Reply 15, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 151802 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

MH releases nationalities of passengers on board MH flight 370




Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
User currently offlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1562 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 151169 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 12):
Not very. If it were with another plane, we'd know about it because either that plane would have survived to tell the tale, or we'd be talking about two missing planes in the same area. If it were with a bird (which is incredibly unlikely that that altitude, but there are birds that have been known to fly that high), it wouldn't have been enough to take down the airplane.

-Mir

Unless it was a military plane, still unlikely but the South China sea has a lot of activity and competing claims at the moment.



BV
User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13039 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 150455 times:

As to a mid-air collision, especially at 35,000 ft would also mean a second aircraft that is lost or has come up at some airport (ie: the bizjet that clipped a GOL airliner, the bizjet landed at a military airport, the Gol broke up and all lost on the Gol one). As far as we know now, that hasn't happened. Of course one can make all kinds of extreme speculation like as to a wayward Missile hit is (one theory on TWA 800's loss).

User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21522 posts, RR: 55
Reply 18, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 150438 times:

Quoting kl838 (Reply 9):
I was asking whether or not MH would receive ACARS messages like AF did when the A330 hit the water?

If they had the equipment to. That sort of thing isn't standard - it's a service that the airline has the option to set up and pay for.

However, it should be pointed out that ACARS is only useful if you can't find the FDR, as the FDR provides far more data to investigators. Once the FDR is recovered (which shouldn't be nearly as hard as AF447's was, as it's either on land or in water that isn't that deep), it'll give investigators plenty of information to work with.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineJAGflyer From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 3496 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 149813 times:

By "signal" they most likely mean ELT. The ELT does not activate unless a crash is detected or the pilot's manually enable it. That's not very good news but at least they have something to go on when it comes to locating the plane.


Support the beer and soda can industry, recycle old airplanes!
User currently offlinemanny From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 472 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 148491 times:

Vietnamese authorities have detected the plane's transmitter around 120 nautical miles (138 miles) southwest of Cape Ca Mau (Vietnam's southernmost point), in the middle of the ocean.

http://translate.google.com/translat...mui-ca-mau-120-hai-ly-2960870.html


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11418 posts, RR: 59
Reply 21, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 146988 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Just asking all to avoid discussion in regards to the quality of news. Please focus on the subject (i.e. the missing plane)





Moderators Team



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineCALPilot From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 998 posts, RR: 14
Reply 22, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 147179 times:

I'm sure this will be lost in the post after post of people. Heck, maybe someone already shared.

http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=147571

The aircraft had major damage history. Might be a good place to start a investigation.


User currently offlineairplanedaj From United States of America, joined Aug 2013, 100 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 147207 times:

Quoting JAGflyer (Reply 21):
By "signal" they most likely mean ELT. The ELT does not activate unless a crash is detected or the pilot's manually enable it. That's not very good news but at least they have something to go on when it comes to locating the plane.

In the US, I don't think commercial airliners don't need ELT's. I am a student at an aviation university in the US and that was covered in my Aviation Regulations class. This may not be true elsewhere in the world though. They may be mentioning the pingers on the black boxes though, if it crashed in water.


User currently offlinekl838 From Netherlands Antilles, joined Oct 2010, 119 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 147187 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 20):
If they had the equipment to. That sort of thing isn't standard - it's a service that the airline has the option to set up and pay for.

However, it should be pointed out that ACARS is only useful if you can't find the FDR, as the FDR provides far more data to investigators. Once the FDR is recovered (which shouldn't be nearly as hard as AF447's was, as it's either on land or in water that isn't that deep), it'll give investigators plenty of information to work with.

Thanks Mir, it makes sense and hopefully there is some news very soon. It could be anything with such few details and information.

Quoting JAGflyer (Reply 21):

By "signal" they most likely mean ELT. The ELT does not activate unless a crash is detected or the pilot's manually enable it. That's not very good news but at least they have something to go on when it comes to locating the plane.

Thats not good news then, was hoping the aircraft landed in some forgotten airfield or something, but one could only hope and pray.


User currently offlineJOYA380B747 From India, joined Mar 2005, 490 posts, RR: 1
Reply 25, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 151913 times:

From the link below, there are claims as to an incident with this particular aircraft in August '12

http://www.smh.com.au/world/seven-au...e-goes-missing-20140308-hvgnx.html

Quote:
The missing plane is believed to have been involved in a crash in August, 2012, when it damaged the tail of a China Eastern Airlines plane at Shanghai Pudong Airport, according to unconfirmed reports.
In the incident, the tip of the wing of the Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 broke off.



If it wasn't for AI and those money mongers sitting in the parliament, 9W would have been as big as SQ...:(
User currently offlinekiwiinoz From New Zealand, joined Oct 2005, 2165 posts, RR: 5
Reply 26, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 150574 times:

They are not that far off land. I would have thought the Vietnamese could send out a couple of choppers to take a look rather than just the rescue boats

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24859 posts, RR: 22
Reply 27, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 156168 times:

Quoting manny (Reply 20):
Vietnamese authorities have detected the plane's transmitter around 120 nautical miles (138 miles) southwest of Cape Ca Mau (Vietnam's southernmost point), in the middle of the ocean.

That report has been denied.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...sing-vietnam-idUSL3N0M505Z20140308


User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7123 posts, RR: 9
Reply 28, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 155070 times:

Odd that they got no messages at all. Hoping for the best but at this point any positive outcome is such a small chance right now. Hope they can find the presume wreckage ASAP. US News outlets have not said much recently. Currently have CCTV on which I would imagine will spend most of the time on the MH 370. They are also reporting Vietnam officials have detected an ELT signal 120nm off the coast. Soon it will be time to figure out what happened, especially considering it is a 777. Which that is now being refuted. Interesting enough someone on CCTV in the Beijing airport just said they still have reports that the plane may have landed at another airport which I highly doubt is possible after this amount of time has passed.

CCTV just said the pilot was very senior with over 18,000hrs. MH does have a good safety record also.

[Edited 2014-03-07 20:07:32]


"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlinecelestar From Singapore, joined Jul 2001, 396 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 155863 times:

I have a strong suspicion that this is an act of terrorist.
Remember what just happened at Kunming
Malaysia had few enemies but remember there are 153 tourists on board and it looks like a good target for making a statement to China.
I totally detest terrorism against innocent people.
B777 or modern airplanes have sophisticated safety equipment. Considering what was known, two hours after took off, my horrible suspicion could be a very plausible.


User currently offlineFinn350 From Finland, joined Jul 2013, 668 posts, RR: 1
Reply 30, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 154319 times:

Quoting JOYA380B747 (Reply 25):
From the link below, there are claims as to an incident with this particular aircraft in August '12

Even if a wing tip would be torn off mid-flight, it should not cause a catastrophic failure.


User currently offlinespacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3608 posts, RR: 12
Reply 31, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 153734 times:

Quoting celestar (Reply 29):
I have a strong suspicion that this is an act of terrorist.

People said the same about AF447...

And now other people are saying this incident reminds them of AF447... both theories are statistically likely to be wrong.



I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offlinehivue From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 1055 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 153098 times:

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 26):
They are not that far off land. I would have thought the Vietnamese could send out a couple of choppers to take a look rather than just the rescue boats

They may have sent helicopters. There may not be much to see and what there is may be hard to spot.


User currently offlineAb345 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2013, 376 posts, RR: 1
Reply 33, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 153274 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

On this link you can see the damage the plane suffered from the previous incident with the A346

http://pic.feeyo.com/posts/569/5691311.html#5691316


User currently offlineJHwk From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 221 posts, RR: 0
Reply 34, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 152270 times:

Sounds like it is near the Perhentians (Malaysia), closer than Vietnam

User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7123 posts, RR: 9
Reply 35, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 151301 times:

Quoting celestar (Reply 29):
I have a strong suspicion that this is an act of terrorist.
Remember what just happened at Kunming
Malaysia had few enemies but remember there are 153 tourists on board and it looks like a good target for making a statement to China.
I totally detest terrorism against innocent people.
B777 or modern airplanes have sophisticated safety equipment. Considering what was known, two hours after took off, my horrible suspicion could be a very plausible.

Certainly possible. Unless an organization takes responsibility may takes months or even over a year to find out.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21522 posts, RR: 55
Reply 36, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 151360 times:

Quoting CALPilot (Reply 22):
The aircraft had major damage history. Might be a good place to start a investigation.

I'm sure that will get a lot of press, but I don't believe it to be significant. Airplanes get damaged all the time, and they're able to be repaired to an airworthy state. The fact that this one was involved in a ground collision just means it was involved in a ground collision and was repaired. Nothing more can be drawn from that at this point.

Quoting celestar (Reply 29):
I have a strong suspicion that this is an act of terrorist.
Remember what just happened at Kunming

Why would Islamic terrorists go after an airline from an Islamic country?

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4474 posts, RR: 2
Reply 37, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 151230 times:

Quoting manny (Reply 20):
Vietnamese authorities have detected the plane's transmitter around 120 nautical miles (138 miles) southwest of Cape Ca Mau (Vietnam's southernmost point), in the middle of the ocean.

Guess we will wait to see what the details are. If the plane's transmitter has been detected, do we know if it was on the surface or whether they already reached the site?




1:00-3:00 A.M again. Whatever happened, the Darkness and hour would not have helped the pilots much .



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineNewark727 From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 1335 posts, RR: 0
Reply 38, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 150517 times:

So we're sure now that this is 9M-MRO? Haven't been keeping up completely, but all we had on the registration earlier seemed a bit "best guess" from our amateurs here.

User currently offlinesilentbob From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2051 posts, RR: 1
Reply 39, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 150250 times:

Quoting celestar (Reply 29):
I have a strong suspicion that this is an act of terrorist.

They usually don't wait very long to claim responsibility


User currently offlineSWALUV From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 112 posts, RR: 0
Reply 40, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 150346 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 36):
Airplanes get damaged all the time, and they're able to be repaired to an airworthy state. The fact that this one was involved in a ground collision just means it was involved in a ground collision and was repaired. Nothing more can be drawn from that at this point.

Would the damage the aircraft received in the ground collision cause significant stress on the remainder of the wing and begin to cause cracking?


User currently offlineN867DA From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1001 posts, RR: 0
Reply 41, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 149726 times:

It took seven years after botched repair to the aft bulkhead to bring down JAL 123 in 1985.We don't know what the condition of the MH777 is right now, but if it is indeed a hull loss I'm sure the A/C maintenance records will be scrutinized carefully.


A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
User currently offlineMiami From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 926 posts, RR: 42
Reply 42, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 150402 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Signal has been detected of 9M-MRO

A Vietnamese official of search and rescue said Saturday that the signal of the missing Malaysia Airlines 777 has been detected.

Signal of the 777 with 227 passengers and 12 crew members on board has been detected at some 120 nautical miles southwest of Vietnam's southernmost Ca Mau province.



Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16999 posts, RR: 67
Reply 43, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 148534 times:

Quoting SWALUV (Reply 40):

Quoting Mir (Reply 36):
Airplanes get damaged all the time, and they're able to be repaired to an airworthy state. The fact that this one was involved in a ground collision just means it was involved in a ground collision and was repaired. Nothing more can be drawn from that at this point.

Would the damage the aircraft received in the ground collision cause significant stress on the remainder of the wing and begin to cause cracking?

This would have been checked pre- and post-repair. Besides, aircraft components are designed and built not to fail due to failure of another part. Chain reactions are frowned upon.

Quoting Miami (Reply 42):

Signal has been detected of 9M-MRO

A Vietnamese official of search and rescue said Saturday that the signal of the missing Malaysia Airlines 777 has been detected.

Signal of the 777 with 227 passengers and 12 crew members on board has been detected at some 120 nautical miles southwest of Vietnam's southernmost Ca Mau province.

Read the thread please (Reply 27). This report has been denied by Vietnamese authorities. http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...sing-vietnam-idUSL3N0M505Z20140308



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineLTC8K6 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 44, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 148624 times:

Again, the report of a signal has been denied. It also doesn't seem to make sense given where flightradar data ends,

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...sing-vietnam-idUSL3N0M505Z20140308


User currently offlineapfpilot From United States of America, joined Jun 2013, 289 posts, RR: 0
Reply 45, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 148822 times:

Quoting CALPilot (Reply 22):

I'm sure this will be lost in the post after post of people. Heck, maybe someone already shared.

http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=147571

The aircraft had major damage history. Might be a good place to start a investigation.

Pic of the damage, doesn't look toooo bad. http://cdn.feeyo.com/pic/20120810/201208100951017177.jpg



Opinions are my own and do not reflect an endorsement or position of my employer.
User currently offlineLTC8K6 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 46, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 146188 times:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/MAS370

This was linked earlier. If that is the flight, then data was lost over land and early.


User currently onlineKaphias From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 299 posts, RR: 0
Reply 47, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 144943 times:

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 46):
This was linked earlier. If that is the flight, then data was lost over land and early.

This kind of data loss occurs often with international flights on FlightAware and therefore it cannot be considered to be a reliable source in this case.



Flown on: C150, C172, C206, Beaver, Otter, Jetstream 32, Q400, CRJ7/9, E135/40/45, A320, B732/4/7/8/9, B744, B752, B763
User currently offlinehivue From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 1055 posts, RR: 0
Reply 48, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 144142 times:

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 46):
If that is the flight, then data was lost over land and early.

That doesn't look like 2 hours worth of flying. An earlier link to an avherald note said that communication was lost over the Gulf of Thailand.


User currently offlineAirCalSNA From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 329 posts, RR: 0
Reply 49, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 144403 times:

FWIW the NY Times most emailed news report concerns the apparently politically motivated criminal conviction of the Malaysian government most threatening opponent. Apparently there are some serious political forces at play in Malaysia.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/08/wo...nced-in-sodomy-case.html?src=rechp


User currently offlineLTC8K6 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 50, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 143967 times:

When you look at the other flights, we only have data loss over China.

Are these tracks accurate, or have they simply been assumed?


User currently offlineholzmann From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 51, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 142601 times:

Let's assume the first rule of a hijacking is to turn off the transponder. You could still see the AC on radar but it would not be immediately identifiable, right? What kind of flight radius would the AC have had with its last known position and fuel capacity? And what airports within that radius would have a long enough runway?

User currently offlineMiami From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 926 posts, RR: 42
Reply 52, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 141413 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

China has sent 2 ships for search and rescue operations in South China Sea. Keep on praying!

At this point, sadly. Survival rate should be low.      

If this is the case. May everyone on board MH flight 370 rest in peace.   



Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16999 posts, RR: 67
Reply 53, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 140595 times:

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 50):
When you look at the other flights, we only have data loss over China.

Are these tracks accurate, or have they simply been assumed?

Other flights where?

FlightRadar24 and FlightAware "lose" planes all the time simply because radar coverage (and automated position report upload I suppose) does not extend over all areas, including large parts of China. If there is a track on FlightRadar24 or FlightAware it is actual.

The FlightRadar24 track seems to have the entire flight, and the site points out that coverage over the area is good. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=678741775498582&set=a.116008071771958.7699.111607872211978&type=1&theater

Full playback. Search for MAS370. http://www.flightradar24.com/2014-03-07/16:50/12x/6.18,102.93/6



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlinetonytifao From Brazil, joined Mar 2005, 1014 posts, RR: 0
Reply 54, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 139248 times:

What countries have started the search?

User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4865 posts, RR: 4
Reply 55, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 138757 times:

I really am praying the aircraft is found with survivors onboard  
My thoughts and prayers to all.
R.I.P.

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlinedirktraveller From Singapore, joined Jan 2011, 566 posts, RR: 2
Reply 56, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 138623 times:

First of all, all my thoughts and prayers goes with those aboard and their families.

I'm not speculating on any causes on why the aircraft goes missing, but somehow I don't feel we are dealing with act of terrrorism here.

Firstly, if someone had suggested the flight have been hijacked and landed somewhere that is within the hijackers control, surely they would have stated their demands right now, and they would make their demands being known by the world media, instead of being kept a low profile.

Second, if an on-board explosion did happen as a result of terrorism activities, someone would have claimed responsibility to the attack by now.

Despite the recent attack in Kunming, hypotethically speaking if those responsible were same group of perpetrators they would have a more concise statement attacking a Chinese-registered aircraft instead of an MH plane. Just my thoughts for now, we would see how this develop later on.


User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16999 posts, RR: 67
Reply 57, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 137901 times:

Quoting holzmann (Reply 51):

Let's assume the first rule of a hijacking is to turn off the transponder. You could still see the AC on radar but it would not be immediately identifiable, right? What kind of flight radius would the AC have had with its last known position and fuel capacity? And what airports within that radius would have a long enough runway?

Not necessarily viewable. You'd need primary radar for that and you might not have coverage over the ocean. The main point of transponders is to make flights trackable with only secondary radar.

Flight radius would be huge as it was bound for PEK. Just pulling some numbers out of the air, assuming 0.85 Mach it is just under 5 hours as the crow flies from KUL to PEK. (Of course, planes don't cruise at M0.85 the whole way but it is a place to start.) Given reserves etc, I'm guessing the plane would have been able to fly in excess of 6 more hours from the point of contact loss. Easily over 5000km. Note: very rough estimate!

The number of airports with a long enough runway in that radius is quite large. I'd guess at hundreds.

Quoting tonytifao (Reply 54):
What countries have started the search?

Presumably Malaysia and Vietnam since the contact loss was between the two countries, but could also be Cambodia and Thailand.

[Edited 2014-03-07 20:41:19]

[Edited 2014-03-07 20:46:36]

[Edited 2014-03-07 20:51:59]


"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineKLAXAirport From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 149 posts, RR: 0
Reply 58, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 137801 times:

Thoughts and prayers to all those on board and the family of those effected by this tragedy.

RIP.

KLAXAirport   

[Edited 2014-03-07 20:40:29]

User currently offlinenutsaboutplanes From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 496 posts, RR: 8
Reply 59, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 137443 times:

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 53):

Watching the play-back and seeing the return for 370 disappear is heartbreaking.



American Airlines, US Airways, Alaska Airlines, Northwest Airlines, America West Airlines, USAFR
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16999 posts, RR: 67
Reply 60, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 136295 times:

Presumably Malaysia and Vietnam

Quoting nutsaboutplanes (Reply 59):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 53):

Watching the play-back and seeing the return for 370 disappear is heartbreaking.

Indeed. Unfortunately I can't get it to slow from 12x so I can't see what happens in the last moments. It goes from cruise to 0ft instantly given the compression. Anyone know how to slow the playback?



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineLTC8K6 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 61, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 135620 times:

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 53):
Other flights where?

The previous Malaysian flights on the route. Their tracks are uninterrupted until they reach China.

I was wondering about the difference with this flight, which seems to lose data over Malaysia, whereas all the previous flights appear to at least reach China.


User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7123 posts, RR: 9
Reply 62, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 134972 times:

Quoting holzmann (Reply 51):
Let's assume the first rule of a hijacking is to turn off the transponder. You could still see the AC on radar but it would not be immediately identifiable, right?

It is not easy. During 9/11 they had a very hard time finding some of the airplanes high jacked which transponders were turned off.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineholzmann From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 63, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 134172 times:

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 57):

Thanks. If we assume from the FlightAware map that signal was lost around coordinates 5°32'07.2"N 102°11'39.3"E and we assume the 5000km radius, then we have a map like this...



User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16999 posts, RR: 67
Reply 64, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 133218 times:

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 61):

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 53):
Other flights where?

The previous Malaysian flights on the route. Their tracks are uninterrupted until they reach China.

I was wondering about the difference with this flight, which seems to lose data over Malaysia, whereas all the previous flights appear to at least reach China.

Based on what we know, the data seems to indicate the transponder stopped functioning over the ocean between Malaysia and Vietnam. Other flights were "lost" by tracking sites over China probably because China either has no radar coverage there or does not upload data to FrightRadar24 et.al.

Quoting flymia (Reply 62):

Quoting holzmann (Reply 51):
Let's assume the first rule of a hijacking is to turn off the transponder. You could still see the AC on radar but it would not be immediately identifiable, right?

It is not easy. During 9/11 they had a very hard time finding some of the airplanes high jacked which transponders were turned off.

Indeed. Also a hijacking and continued flight would not fit the data which shows the plane at 0ft at the end of the track. It would show the last altitude report at cruise altitude. Then again that data is not validated as accurate.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlinerj777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1787 posts, RR: 2
Reply 65, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 132978 times:

I just hope that if it did go down, it went down over land.

User currently offlinekiwiinoz From New Zealand, joined Oct 2005, 2165 posts, RR: 5
Reply 66, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 132233 times:

Apparently another press conference from MH about to happen.

User currently offlinehivue From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 1055 posts, RR: 0
Reply 67, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 132341 times:

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 60):
Unfortunately I can't get it to slow from 12x

12x means each minute is represented by 5 seconds. It looks to me (from flightradar24 anyway) that contact with it was lost at high altitude.


User currently offlinemingocr83 From Costa Rica, joined Dec 2007, 67 posts, RR: 0
Reply 68, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 134316 times:

EDIT THIS CAME JUST FEW SECS AGO

Yahoo singapore reports
Vietnam media quote Navy Admiral Ngo Van Phat saying military radar recorded #MH370 crashing into sea 153 miles south of Phu Quoc island

[Edited 2014-03-07 20:58:40]

[Edited 2014-03-07 21:01:42]


A380, A320, A319, 757-200, 737-800, 737-700, E190
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16999 posts, RR: 67
Reply 69, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 131849 times:

Quoting holzmann (Reply 63):
Thanks. If we assume from the FlightAware map that signal was lost around coordinates 5°32'07.2"N 102°11'39.3"E and we assume the 5000km radius, then we have a map like this...

We can probably assume that the FlightAware position is inaccurate since FlightRadar24 has good data for a much longer distance and it is known the flight lost contact after two hours. Last known position as shown here: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=678741775498582&set=a.116008071771958.7699.111607872211978&type=1&relevant_count=1



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineAirvan00 From Australia, joined Oct 2008, 748 posts, RR: 1
Reply 70, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 131503 times:

Quoting rj777 (Reply 65):


If it did go down over land, I think there would be reports by now.


User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3129 posts, RR: 4
Reply 71, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 130884 times:

Quoting kiwiinoz,previous thread:
I don't know why people get upset about all the speculation. This is a site of aviation enthusiasts. We are not CNN. We are not accountable to fact check everything we say.i think it is perfectly normal for a group like this to bounce around all sorts of theories, (as enthusiasts on any topic would do)

The thing is, right or wrong this website has actually become a pretty common 'go-to' source for the media when events like this first break. For that reason I think we should do without the wild theories and keep things within educated analysis. At least for the first few hours or days of the event.



FLYi
User currently offlinemanny From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 472 posts, RR: 0
Reply 72, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 129408 times:

Again not sure if this is indeed accurate. Vietnamese Navy has confirmed plane crashed into sea.


http://my.news.yahoo.com/mas-aircraf...ssing--says-airline-023820132.html


User currently offlineKBUF From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 515 posts, RR: 0
Reply 73, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 130054 times:

The Vietnamese Navy has, sadly, confirmed that the plane crashed into the ocean.  


"Starting today, the Buffalo Sabres' reason for existence will be to win a Stanley Cup."-Terry Pegula, February 22, 2011
User currently onlineaussie18 From Australia, joined Jun 2005, 1737 posts, RR: 9
Reply 74, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 129702 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

http://my.news.yahoo.com/mas-aircraf...ssing--says-airline-023820132.html

This has just been posted.


User currently offlineillinicmi From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 77 posts, RR: 0
Reply 75, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 129632 times:

Apparently Vietnamese media reporting their navy has confirmed it crashed into the sea. Take it as you will.

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/mas-aircraf...ssing--says-airline-023820132.html


User currently offlineLTC8K6 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 76, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 129399 times:

http://my.news.yahoo.com/mas-aircraf...ssing--says-airline-023820132.html

UPDATE [12:37]: Tuoi Tre, a leading daily in Vietnam, reports that the Vietnamese Navy has confirmed the plane crashed into the ocean. According to Navy Admiral Ngo Van Phat, Commander of the Region 5, military radar recorded that the plane crashed into the sea at a location 153 miles South of Phu Quoc island.


User currently offlinekiwiinoz From New Zealand, joined Oct 2005, 2165 posts, RR: 5
Reply 77, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 128182 times:

Quoting PITrules (Reply 71):

But it's then their job, (the media) to qualify what they report. It's certainly not our job.

MH just held their press conference but as far as I could tell, there was no new info.

[Edited 2014-03-07 21:05:37]

User currently offlineJOshu From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 154 posts, RR: 0
Reply 78, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 128296 times:

News sources now reporting it crashed into the sea:

Quote:
UPDATE [12:37]: Tuoi Tre, a leading daily in Vietnam, reports that the Vietnamese Navy has confirmed the plane crashed into the ocean. According to Navy Admiral Ngo Van Phat, Commander of the Region 5, military radar recorded that the plane crashed into the sea at a location 153 miles South of Phu Quoc island.

Link:
http://my.news.yahoo.com/mas-aircraf...ssing--says-airline-023820132.html


User currently offlinerichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4242 posts, RR: 6
Reply 79, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 127193 times:

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 31):
And now other people are saying this incident reminds them of AF447... both theories are statistically likely to be wrong.

Agreed.
As I write this, the only similarity is that the MH aircraft is missing just as AF's was - until it was found!

Quoting Miami (Reply 42):
Signal of the 777 with 227 passengers and 12 crew members on board has been detected at some 120 nautical miles southwest of Vietnam's southernmost Ca Mau province.

Not good.



None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlineChaosTheory From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2013, 228 posts, RR: 0
Reply 80, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 127078 times:

Quoting zeke (Reply 14):
Normally heading out of KL on that route you are kept low as the outbound track crosses the busy Singapore inbound routes and the Bangkok Singapore route. You go from KL control to a Singapore radar on VHF, them as you get further out transfer to Singapore on datalink. Then transfer to Vietnam on datalink, often after transfer from Singapore to Vietnam you are initially out of VHF range.

They should have a good idea of the location.

Which high altitude airways is the flight likely to use?


User currently offlineLTC8K6 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 81, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 127448 times:

http://tuoitrenews.vn/society/18157/...e-has-not-entered-vn-airspace-caav

The Malaysia Airlines flight carrying 239 people from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing Saturday crashed off Vietnam’s Tho Chu Island, northwest off the country’s southernmost Cape Ca Mau, the Vietnamese High Command of Navy announced.

According to a High Command of Navy statement, the plane went down at the waters between Vietnam and Malaysia, some 153 nautical miles (300km) off Tho Chu Island in Kien Giang Province.


User currently offlineLTC8K6 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 82, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 127236 times:

Well, we didn't want to hear that. Now we have a mystery to think about.

My condolences to the families.

[Edited 2014-03-07 21:06:46]

User currently offlineSQ452 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1110 posts, RR: 0
Reply 83, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 126318 times:

This is starting to feel eerily reminiscent of the AF447 crash off Brazil. Hoping for the best and a positive outcome but it is unfortunately not looking good right now.

Thoughts and prayers are with the families at this moment.



SIN > CVG > BOS
User currently offlineholzmann From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 84, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 126277 times:

Quoting SQ452 (Reply 83):
This is starting to feel eerily reminiscent of the AF447 crash off Brazil. Hoping for the best and a positive outcome but it is unfortunately not looking good right now.

Yes but AF447 flew into one heck of a storm. I think the weather at least appeared clear in this case.


User currently offlinedamirc From Slovenia, joined Feb 2004, 724 posts, RR: 7
Reply 85, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 125595 times:

Odd. The point 153 miles south of Pho Quoc is 360 miles from KUL. 2 hours flight time does not really fit ...

D.


User currently offlinestackhouse007 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 418 posts, RR: 2
Reply 86, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 125628 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Well since its confirmed to have crashed into the sea and they have sent rescue boats towards that location, how long will it take them to reach that spot?


Nikon D60: 18-55mm - 55-200mm / Canon 50D: 100-400mm
User currently offlineillinicmi From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 77 posts, RR: 0
Reply 87, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 124477 times:

Quoting damirc (Reply 85):
Odd. The point 153 miles south of Pho Quoc is 360 miles from KUL. 2 hours flight time does not really fit ...

I thought this as well. Seems like one piece of info is wrong. We'll know which soon enough.


User currently offline757223 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 83 posts, RR: 0
Reply 88, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 123652 times:

It looks to me as if the reported location is in the vicinity of where FlightRadar24 stopped showing a return. Since this type of website uses ACARS data (I believe), having something there one minute and then gone the next leads me to believe that something sudden and drastic happened to stop the data from transmitting.


A/C Flown: 727,737,747,757,767,777,A319/320,MD-80,DC-9,DC-10,L-1011,BAC-111,F-100,CRJ-200/700,EMB-135/140/145,SF-340
User currently offlineturjo101 From Canada, joined Apr 2008, 87 posts, RR: 0
Reply 89, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 123611 times:

timeline does not make sense...

Should the plane not have been past the Gulf of Thailand- if in flight for 2 hours out of KUL?!?


User currently offlinedirktraveller From Singapore, joined Jan 2011, 566 posts, RR: 2
Reply 90, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 123526 times:

Quoting manny (Reply 72):
The Vietnamese Navy has, sadly, confirmed that the plane crashed into the ocean.

Taking into account that statement by the Vietnamese navy is correct, who would be leading the investigation into this accident?

Will it be the Vietnamese or Malaysian aviation safety organisation? I would presume that Boeing and NTSB will assist the investigation process since it involved a boeing-made airframe, and I'm not sure if the Chinese would be participating since the most passengers on board were Chinese nationals?


User currently offlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1562 posts, RR: 3
Reply 91, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 122538 times:

Quoting holzmann (Reply 84):
Yes but AF447 flew into one heck of a storm.

Not really no.

Quoting damirc (Reply 85):
Odd. The point 153 miles south of Pho Quoc is 360 miles from KUL. 2 hours flight time does not really fit ...

Yup, this does not fot the information already released.



BV
User currently offlineTigerguy From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 901 posts, RR: 0
Reply 92, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 121606 times:

Any reports of floating debris yet, or has it just been the military radar data so far?


On the occasion of United overtaking Frontier as my most-flown airline, I say...let's get friendly.
User currently offlineLTC8K6 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 93, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 121711 times:

We have 153 miles off of Tho Chu.

and

153 miles South of Pho Quoc.

Reported so far.


User currently offlinespacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3608 posts, RR: 12
Reply 94, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 121994 times:

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 91):
Not really no.

It flew into a storm that caused high altitude pitot tube icing, which was the start of the incident. Doesn't seem like that would be a factor here.



I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offlineLTC8K6 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 95, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 121582 times:

Must be 153 miles south of Phu Quoc and near Tho Chu?

[Edited 2014-03-07 21:21:12]

User currently offlinehivue From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 1055 posts, RR: 0
Reply 96, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 120977 times:

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 91):
Quoting damirc (Reply 85):Odd. The point 153 miles south of Pho Quoc is 360 miles from KUL. 2 hours flight time does not really fit ...

Yup, this does not fot the information already released.

However, the reports also say:

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 81):
northwest off the country’s southernmost Cape Ca Mau

That looks like more than 400 miles from KUL to me. Also north of where the flightradar24 information ceases.


User currently offlinelaxboeingman From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 538 posts, RR: 0
Reply 97, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 119857 times:

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 81):
According to a High Command of Navy statement, the plane went down at the waters between Vietnam and Malaysia, some 153 nautical miles (300km) off Tho Chu Island in Kien Giang Province.

How would they know that?

It seems like - from the GIF - that there was some moisture, but that shouldn't have made it crash. Could there have possibly been a fuel leak or an issue that prevented fuel from reaching the engines, therefore causing the e/q to come right out of the sky?

Do you think the plane would be sticking out or is there probable cause to think it - God forbid - sunk? If they latter, do you think it could be spotted?

My condolences to the families of the victims.



The real American classics: LAX and Boeing.
User currently offlineKBUF From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 515 posts, RR: 0
Reply 98, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 120624 times:

Emergency message sent to all vessels in the area:




"Starting today, the Buffalo Sabres' reason for existence will be to win a Stanley Cup."-Terry Pegula, February 22, 2011
User currently offlineTwoFourLeft From United States of America, joined Oct 2013, 51 posts, RR: 0
Reply 99, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 120246 times:

In just playing around with the ruler in Google Earth, if you were to draw a straight line from Kuala Lumpur to Phnom Penh, it looks like the crash site is about halfway between those two points.

User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6343 posts, RR: 3
Reply 100, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 120320 times:

Quoting CALPilot (Reply 22):
I'm sure this will be lost in the post after post of people. Heck, maybe someone already shared.

http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=147571

The aircraft had major damage history. Might be a good place to start a investigation.

That is really not very major damage...of course, a poorly executed repair (like Japan Airlines 123) can change the game, though. I hope that the accident is not related to post-incident repairs 



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7210 posts, RR: 17
Reply 101, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 119536 times:

This is so sad. I'm getting multiple reports quoting the Vietnamese navy apparently finding the crashed plane.


One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlinethenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2382 posts, RR: 12
Reply 102, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 120898 times:

Two China Airlines aircraft just did 360 turns over South China sea, just east of Da Nang, Vietnam, where the aircraft might have gone down.

Maybe picking up ELT signals?

http://www.flightradar24.com/CAL862/2d9162c

http://www.flightradar24.com/CAL782/2d9126b

Edit: Scratch that, looks like deliberate turns assigned by ATC to establish non radar spacing over South China Sea.

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2014-03-07 21:31:09]


us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
User currently offlineholzmann From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 103, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 119377 times:

So what is the status of this AC pitot tubes being heated? These had not been installed on AF447.

User currently offlineLTC8K6 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 104, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 119367 times:

The earlier report of an ELT was 120 miles SW of cape Ca Mau.

That is a rough match for 153 miles south of Phu Quoc, I think.


User currently offlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1562 posts, RR: 3
Reply 105, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 118535 times:

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 94):
It flew into a storm that caused high altitude pitot tube icing, which was the start of the incident. Doesn't seem like that would be a factor here.

It flew into an area of icing, it never reached the storm.



BV
User currently offlinelaxboeingman From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 538 posts, RR: 0
Reply 106, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 118722 times:

http://my.news.yahoo.com/malaysian-a...-flight-live-report-050312770.html

AFP via Yahoo - timeline of events.

"05:13 GMT - Never appeared - A Vietnam government statement on its official website quoting a ministry of defence official says the plane was meant to transfer to Ho Chi Minh City air traffic control at 1722 GMT but never appeared.

The statement goes on to say that Vietnam's Ministry of Defence has launched rescue efforts to find the plane, working in coordination with Malaysian and Chinese officials."

[Edited 2014-03-07 21:28:37]


The real American classics: LAX and Boeing.
User currently offlinehivue From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 1055 posts, RR: 0
Reply 107, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 118404 times:

Quoting holzmann (Reply 103):
So what is the status of this AC pitot tubes being heated?

All commercial aircraft pitot tubes are heated.


User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12408 posts, RR: 37
Reply 108, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 117884 times:

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 97):
Do you think the plane would be sticking out or is there probable cause to think it - God forbid - sunk? If they latter, do you think it could be spotted?

If it crashed into the sea, it would have disintegrated on impact (if it was still in one piece, which of course we don't know); debris and bodies would be floating on the surface, but the main parts of the fuselage would have sunk.

It is broad daylight now and if - as reported - the weather is calm - search aircraft would have found wreckage by now.


User currently offlinedamirc From Slovenia, joined Feb 2004, 724 posts, RR: 7
Reply 109, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 117234 times:

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 102):
Two China Airlines aircraft just did 360 turns over South China sea, where the aircraft might have gone down.

Maybe picking up ELT signals?

http://www.flightradar24.com/CAL862/2d9162c

http://www.flightradar24.com/CAL782/2d9126b

Add TG610 to the list of looping planes:

http://www.flightradar24.com/TG610/2d914b4

D.


User currently offlineLTC8K6 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 110, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 116815 times:

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 102):
Two China Airlines aircraft just did 360 turns over South China sea, just east of Da Nang, Vietnam, where the aircraft might have gone down.

Doesn't appear to be anywhere near the reported crash area.


User currently offlinelaxboeingman From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 538 posts, RR: 0
Reply 111, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 116001 times:

Quoting kaitak (Reply 108):
It is broad daylight now and if - as reported - the weather is calm - search aircraft would have found wreckage by now.

Thank you, good to know.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 108):
If it crashed into the sea, it would have disintegrated on impac

How do we know that to be the case?



The real American classics: LAX and Boeing.
User currently offlineturjo101 From Canada, joined Apr 2008, 87 posts, RR: 0
Reply 112, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 116368 times:

http://www.flightradar24.com/CAL834/2d91525

another one is in process of doing another loop.


User currently offlineairplanedaj From United States of America, joined Aug 2013, 100 posts, RR: 0
Reply 113, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 116287 times:

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 102):

Two China Airlines aircraft just did 360 turns over South China sea, where the aircraft might have gone down.

Maybe picking up ELT signals?

http://www.flightradar24.com/CAL862/2d9162c

http://www.flightradar24.com/CAL782/2d9126b

Thenoflyzone

Unfortunately, these planes are on the wrong side of Vietnam to be circling over the crash site, which is about 120-150 miles off the SW coast of Vietnam.


User currently offlinestackhouse007 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 418 posts, RR: 2
Reply 114, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 116301 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

All 3 of these posted links to planes circling are in completely different places and the TG610 circling was over land..


Nikon D60: 18-55mm - 55-200mm / Canon 50D: 100-400mm
User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3129 posts, RR: 4
Reply 115, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 116106 times:

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 77):
But it's then their job, (the media) to qualify what they report. It's certainly not our job.

I agree - when it comes to reporting facts. But before the facts roll in it is natural to bring in experts for their opinion. That's what CNN did by bringing in Greg Feith and James Kallstrom, and that's fine even though neither one of those guys know any 'facts' about the topic at hand at the time any more than we do.

It is great when members post weather charts, technical data about the B-777, draw comparisons to past accidents, etc etc. but when people state things like "My cousin Willie is a pilot so it must have been pilot error" or "Perhaps North Korea shot it down" I think it lowers the standard of this forum. Just MHO.

[Edited 2014-03-07 21:36:40]


FLYi
User currently offlineturjo101 From Canada, joined Apr 2008, 87 posts, RR: 0
Reply 116, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 116205 times:

There maybe something we don't know...Otherwise why are all these aircrafts doing loops?

User currently offlineFinn350 From Finland, joined Jul 2013, 668 posts, RR: 1
Reply 117, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 115504 times:

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 104):
The earlier report of an ELT was 120 miles SW of cape Ca Mau.That is a rough match for 153 miles south of Phu Quoc, I think.

If the news report is accurate, the crash location was established from a miltary radar.

If the ELTs (Emergency Locator Transmitters) had been activated, they would have known immediately the crash location. The ELTs transmit GPS position of the crash as part of their signal. Apparently the same as with the AF447, the plane crashed into the sea with such a force that there was no time for the ELTs to activate.

[Edited 2014-03-07 21:47:24]

User currently offlinethenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2382 posts, RR: 12
Reply 118, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 115741 times:

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 110):

Doesn't appear to be anywhere near the reported crash area.

Reports on CBC here in Canada was that the crash site might be on the East coast of Vietnam, in the South China Sea, which concurs with a 2+ hour flight time from KUL.

But as i edited above, i now believe the 360 turns are ATC related to establish non radar spacing over the Ocean.

Thenoflyzone



us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
User currently offlinelaxboeingman From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 538 posts, RR: 0
Reply 119, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 115344 times:

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 110):
Doesn't appear to be anywhere near the reported crash area.

Is the thought it crashed South-Southewest of Vietnam or South-Southeast of Vietnam?



The real American classics: LAX and Boeing.
User currently offlineturjo101 From Canada, joined Apr 2008, 87 posts, RR: 0
Reply 120, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 115400 times:

Actually is there even any point to doing these loops...would they be able to see anything from 33-37000 ft up?

User currently offlineReffado From Brazil, joined Feb 2012, 226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 121, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 114595 times:

Quoting turjo101 (Reply 121):

In clear skies, you can see odd colored points (floating debris) in the ocean.


User currently offlinetimpdx From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 529 posts, RR: 0
Reply 122, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 113834 times:

Just tuned into this story, so sorry to hear about the apparent loss of so many souls. RIP. At cruise altitude with no crew communication? Different than AF447 IMO, since landfall is so close and any distress coms should have been heard and the the flightradar shows some flights in proximity that could have heard a distress call. Any chance it was undetected damage from the wing strike leading to catastrophic failure and no radio call? Sea is is not deep in that area unlike AF447 so hope investigators get the data and voice recorders. Apparently first "mass casualty" fatal 777 accident...hope I am wrong.

[Edited 2014-03-07 21:42:16]

User currently offlineJBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4488 posts, RR: 21
Reply 123, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 113812 times:

Quoting turjo101 (Reply 121):
Actually is there even any point to doing these loops...would they be able to see anything from 33-37000 ft up?

While it might be hard to detect debris specifically, a fuel sheen might be visible.

And it's better than nothing.

My prayers and thoughts are with everyone touched.



I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
User currently offlineAustinALlison From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 124, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 113794 times:

The reason they are looping is to search for wreckage in different spots. Cover more area, ya know.

User currently offlineTwoFourLeft From United States of America, joined Oct 2013, 51 posts, RR: 0
Reply 125, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 113042 times:

I am very confused. News is saying that it was south of the Vietnamese coast. So what is with the other planes circling over the South China Sea? Not sure they are related.

User currently offlineadityashankar From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 51 posts, RR: 0
Reply 126, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 114948 times:

Hey guys,

It's bad news....

http://www.airlinereporter.com/2014/...sia-airlines-flight-mh370-missing/

Quote of the headline: "UPDATED: Malaysia Airlines Flight 370, a Boeing 777-200ER has crashed near Vietnam"



Spreading the Joy of Flight
User currently offlinelaxboeingman From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 538 posts, RR: 0
Reply 127, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 112823 times:

Quoting TwoFourLeft (Reply 126):
I am very confused. News is saying that it was south of the Vietnamese coast. So what is with the other planes circling over the South China Sea? Not sure they are related.

Now three planes near one another flying east in South China Sea. I am not sure why they were looping in that area based on discussions earlier in the thread.

http://www.flightradar24.com/CPA766/2d90d64



The real American classics: LAX and Boeing.
User currently offlineLTC8K6 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 128, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 112358 times:

So far the reports seem to have it near Tho Chu island in the Gulf of Thailand, but nothing has been confirmed.

One would think if it had crossed over Vietnam, we would know that from radar and other reports.


User currently offlinelaxboeingman From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 538 posts, RR: 0
Reply 129, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 112739 times:

"05:25 GMT - Airline CEO's statement -
Malaysian Airlines is running a statement given by Group CEO Ahmad Jauhari Yahya on its Facebook site, in which he expresses his sadness and confirms Flight MH370 "lost contact with Subang Air Traffic Control at 2.40am, today."
He adds there has been "speculation" the plan had landed at Nanming, in China. "We are working to verify the authenticity of the report and others."
The statement also gives a breakdown of the 239 passengers and crew – comprising 227 passengers (including 2 infants), 12 crew members."

http://my.news.yahoo.com/malaysian-a...-flight-live-report-050312770.html



The real American classics: LAX and Boeing.
User currently offlineturjo101 From Canada, joined Apr 2008, 87 posts, RR: 0
Reply 130, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 111725 times:

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 124):

Quoting turjo101 (Reply 121):
Actually is there even any point to doing these loops...would they be able to see anything from 33-37000 ft up?

While it might be hard to detect debris specifically, a fuel sheen might be visible.

And it's better than nothing.

If this is so...they should also get planes over the Gulf of Thailand doing loops...
CX634 is approaching the area of last contact
as are AK1035


User currently offlineAirvan00 From Australia, joined Oct 2008, 748 posts, RR: 1
Reply 131, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 111608 times:

Quoting TwoFourLeft (Reply 126):

They are not related. As mentioned above aircraft need to loose time when transitting from a radar type environment to a procedural type enviorment.


User currently offlineairportugal310 From Palau, joined Apr 2004, 3582 posts, RR: 2
Reply 132, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 111592 times:

Reply 119 probably eludes best as to why they were circling...establish spacing


I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1660 posts, RR: 1
Reply 133, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 112275 times:

just reading the press release from Malaysian airlines -

''The flight was piloted by Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah, a Malaysian aged 53. He has a total flying hours of 18,365hours. He joined Malaysia Airlines in 1981. First officer, Fariq Ab.Hamid, a Malaysian, is aged 27. He has a total flying hours of 2,763 hours. He joined Malaysia Airlines in 2007.''

starts to ring bells of SFO again...

My wife's company has a group on board and is waiting at the airport.   what a shocking week for China.

http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/my/en/site/dark-site.html



NZ 787-9 flying between PVG - AKL ! CAN'T WAIT!!
User currently offlinehivue From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 1055 posts, RR: 0
Reply 134, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 111595 times:

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 128):
Quoting TwoFourLeft (Reply 126):I am very confused. News is saying that it was south of the Vietnamese coast. So what is with the other planes circling over the South China Sea? Not sure they are related.
Now three planes near one another flying east in South China Sea. I am not sure why they were looping in that area based on discussions earlier in the thread.

See thenoflyzone's post 119 above.


User currently offlineLTC8K6 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 135, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 111607 times:

The various reports are quite confusing...

User currently offlineReffado From Brazil, joined Feb 2012, 226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 136, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 109288 times:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_370

Christ, you guys are fast.   


User currently offlineLTC8K6 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 137, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 108128 times:

Quoting Finn350 (Reply 118):
The ELTs transmit GPS position of the crash as part of their signal

I recall during research on the 787 ELT incident, that not all ELTs transmit GPS info.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergen...cator_Transmitter#Beacon_Operation


User currently offlinelaxboeingman From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 538 posts, RR: 0
Reply 138, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 108085 times:

Quoting hivue (Reply 135):
See thenoflyzone's post 119 above.

I saw, thanks.

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 134):
''The flight was piloted by Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah, a Malaysian aged 53. He has a total flying hours of 18,365hours. He joined Malaysia Airlines in 1981. First officer, Fariq Ab.Hamid, a Malaysian, is aged 27. He has a total flying hours of 2,763 hours. He joined Malaysia Airlines in 2007.''

I was waiting to find out that information. I was wondering if the captain did not have a lot of experience, but this proves the opposite. Even though the first officer was young, he was still with the airline for seven years.

If the captain was not paying attention or if he was on his rest period, I can see why you may bring up SFO. If the captain, however, was paying attention or fully awake in the cockpit, I am not sure if this was pilot error because he certainly was experienced.

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 134):
starts to ring bells of SFO again...

I know where you could get that idea from, but this is different because it was at cursing altitude and not during landing, which is a more dangerous state of flight. SFO had to do with speed and I am not sure we have anything to indicate that is the case here. At the same time, though, we have nothing to indicate speed was not a factor.



The real American classics: LAX and Boeing.
User currently offlineFlyingSicilian From Italy, joined Mar 2009, 1298 posts, RR: 0
Reply 139, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 107514 times:

Quoting Reffado (Reply 137):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_370

Christ, you guys are fast.

Someone posted pictures of the flight manifest with all names on Facebook over an hour ago...

Thoughts and prayers to all involved in this. Still hopeing for a miracle but thinking the worst sadly.



Ciao Windjet mi manchi
User currently offlinelaxboeingman From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 538 posts, RR: 0
Reply 140, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 107328 times:

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 139):
Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 134):
starts to ring bells of SFO again...

I know where you could get that idea from, but this is different because it was at cursing altitude and not during landing, which is a more dangerous state of flight. SFO had to do with speed and I am not sure we have anything to indicate that is the case here. At the same time, though, we have nothing to indicate speed was not a factor.

And...call this speculation, which it is, but I find it very hard to believe it was caused by an error in speed in which it suddenly fell out of the sky because it was not going fast enough.



The real American classics: LAX and Boeing.
User currently offlineTwoFourLeft From United States of America, joined Oct 2013, 51 posts, RR: 0
Reply 141, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 106587 times:

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 134):
starts to ring bells of SFO again...

WAAAAAAAAY too early to be making statements like that. We have absolutely no idea what took place that led to this accident.


User currently offlineAirvan00 From Australia, joined Oct 2008, 748 posts, RR: 1
Reply 142, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 105521 times:

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 138):

Newer ELB's (406 MHz ) transmitt location information. I would expect that all airworthiness authorities now require that the latest style of beacons are fitted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distress_radiobeacon

[Edited 2014-03-07 22:01:47]

User currently offlineFinn350 From Finland, joined Jul 2013, 668 posts, RR: 1
Reply 143, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 105427 times:

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 138):
I recall during research on the 787 ELT incident, that not all ELTs transmit GPS info.

No, but I am pretty confident that the 777 ELTs are GPS-capable.


User currently offline747megatop From United States of America, joined May 2007, 716 posts, RR: 0
Reply 144, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 106312 times:

Vietnamese Navy has confirmed MH370 crashed off Vietnam coast -

http://www.thanhniennews.com/society...etnam-sea-navy-official-24480.html

http://my.news.yahoo.com/mas-aircraf...ssing--says-airline-023820132.html


User currently offlineChaosTheory From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2013, 228 posts, RR: 0
Reply 145, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 105752 times:

Quoting holzmann (Reply 103):
So what is the status of this AC pitot tubes being heated? These had not been installed on AF447.

The B777 has three heated pitots: left, centre and right. The primary flight display is not affected by a single pitot probe heat failure.


User currently offlineKFlyer From Sri Lanka, joined Mar 2007, 1226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 146, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 104824 times:

Do we have really clarified the location where the a/c went missing? As per FR24 data, this would be around 40 mins from KUL, likely somewhere near waypoint IGARI. But multiple news reports indicate this was two hours away from KUL.


The opinions above are solely my own and do not express those of my employers or clients.
User currently offlinelaxboeingman From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 538 posts, RR: 0
Reply 147, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 102678 times:

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...200-had-uneventful-history-396793/

Here is a link to a story about the e/q and its history.



The real American classics: LAX and Boeing.
User currently offlineSQ452 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1110 posts, RR: 0
Reply 148, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 101822 times:

Quoting timpdx (Reply 123):
Apparently first "mass casualty" fatal 777 accident...hope I am wrong.

Yes you would be correct in saying that this would be the first "mass casualty" incident for this aircraft.

The only other 777 incident with fatalities was the Asiana crash in SFO last summer (3 fatalities).

This plane has a truly remarkable safety record when you think about it; it has been in service for 20 or so years and only suffered 3 hull losses before this incident, and only 3 fatalities associated with any incidents before today. Something must have gone terribly wrong enroute and we can all only speculate at this point.

It has been pointed out that this particular aircraft in question for MH was involved in a collision in PVG a couple years back where its wing clipped the tail of an MU A340-600. I don't believe that that would be something that would factor into this incident with MH370 unless it was structural fatigue from the repairs that just built up over a period of time. I would find that hard to believe given the plane would probably have gone through a rigorous inspection between now and today. I wouldn't rule it out completely though.

The parallel I drew with AF447 was that this flight just 'vanished' mid-flight; we of course won't know the reasons for MH370 disappearing for some time I'd imagine (search and rescue, recovery and investigation will all take time), but the question I have is has there been any instances where the Pitot heating system failed on Boeing aircraft and in particular the 777?



SIN > CVG > BOS
User currently offlinetonytifao From Brazil, joined Mar 2005, 1014 posts, RR: 0
Reply 149, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 101522 times:

How is the location of the crash identified? Beacon data or actual visual sing of debris?

User currently offlineLTC8K6 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 150, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 101543 times:

Quoting tonytifao (Reply 150):
How is the location of the crash identified? Beacon data or actual visual sing of debris?

I believe it was reported as radar data from a military base.


User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16999 posts, RR: 67
Reply 151, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 100440 times:

Quoting PITrules (Reply 71):

Quoting kiwiinoz,previous thread:
I don't know why people get upset about all the speculation. This is a site of aviation enthusiasts. We are not CNN. We are not accountable to fact check everything we say.i think it is perfectly normal for a group like this to bounce around all sorts of theories, (as enthusiasts on any topic would do)

The thing is, right or wrong this website has actually become a pretty common 'go-to' source for the media when events like this first break. For that reason I think we should do without the wild theories and keep things within educated analysis. At least for the first few hours or days of the event.

To quote Gonzalo's excellent post from a few years ago from: TK B738 Crash At Amsterdam - Part 5 (by WILCO737 Feb 25 2009 in Civil Aviation)

Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 19):
Hi Everybody. After reading almost every post since thread Nº 1, sadly i have to say some of the members here have a wrong idea about the purpose of the forums here in A.net. Some people seems to hate any form of speculation and exchange of ideas...looks like the site has the responsability of release in the next days the final report of the accident and write the recomedations instead the Safety Board of the country where the accident happened. With all the respect you deserve , the whole concept of this forums, is the mutual exchange of information, ideas, speculation, people making questions, other people giving answers to those questions....that's the final purpose of any "Discussion Forum", of any kind, of any site....


I'll think most of us, pilots or not, industry workers or not, even simply aviation enthusiasts, we all already know this : The real causes of any accident, usually take months, even years before a final conclusion, supported by demonstrated facts, Blackboxes reading, and even more, sometimes ( sadly ), with all the technology we have today, a final conclusion is never founded.
Knowing that, why is so tasteless make assumptions ? why somebody can not have a theory of what happened and share with the rest of us ? Again, with all the respect, If you want only demonstrated facts, expect the 12, or 24, or 36 months, and read the Final report of the Safety Board. In the mean time, let us to talk, in a friendly way, in the A.net forums. Thank you.


Quoting holzmann (Reply 84):

Quoting SQ452 (Reply 83):
This is starting to feel eerily reminiscent of the AF447 crash off Brazil. Hoping for the best and a positive outcome but it is unfortunately not looking good right now.

Yes but AF447 flew into one heck of a storm. I think the weather at least appeared clear in this case.

Indeed. It is not the storm season in these parts for a few more months anyway.

Quoting 757223 (Reply 88):

It looks to me as if the reported location is in the vicinity of where FlightRadar24 stopped showing a return. Since this type of website uses ACARS data (I believe), having something there one minute and then gone the next leads me to believe that something sudden and drastic happened to stop the data from transmitting.

AFAIK they get transponder data Mode C and S data, not ACARS data.

Quoting dirktraveller (Reply 90):
Taking into account that statement by the Vietnamese navy is correct, who would be leading the investigation into this accident?

Will it be the Vietnamese or Malaysian aviation safety organisation? I would presume that Boeing and NTSB will assist the investigation process since it involved a boeing-made airframe, and I'm not sure if the Chinese would be participating since the most passengers on board were Chinese nationals?

Depends where exactly it crashed, Vietnamese or Malaysian waters. Lead is always the country where the plane crashed unless it crashed in international waters.

Quoting holzmann (Reply 103):
So what is the status of this AC pitot tubes being heated? These had not been installed on AF447.

Pilot tubes on airliners are always heated. The ones on AF447 malfunctioned and that problem has been rectified.

Quoting KFlyer (Reply 147):



Do we have really clarified the location where the a/c went missing? As per FR24 data, this would be around 40 mins from KUL, likely somewhere near waypoint IGARI. But multiple news reports indicate this was two hours away from KUL.

Two hours flight as it flew perhaps. However the two hours figure seems to be from earlier reports.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineKC135Hydraulics From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 289 posts, RR: 0
Reply 152, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 99267 times:

Quoting SQ452 (Reply 149):
The parallel I drew with AF447 was that this flight just 'vanished' mid-flight; we of course won't know the reasons for MH370 disappearing for some time I'd imagine (search and rescue, recovery and investigation will all take time), but the question I have is has there been any instances where the Pitot heating system failed on Boeing aircraft and in particular the 777?

I'm sure that it has. Most systems will eventually fail for any reason after a given amount of time. The difference is, I doubt we'll find an incident whose direct cause could be contributed to a pitot heat failure like the one that occured on AF 447.


User currently offlinelaxboeingman From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 538 posts, RR: 0
Reply 153, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 98523 times:

Quoting SQ452 (Reply 149):
This plane has a truly remarkable safety record when you think about it; it has been in service for 20 or so years and only suffered 3 hull losses before this incident, and only 3 fatalities associated with any incidents before today. Something must have gone terribly wrong enroute and we can all only speculate at this point.

I was just thinking that unfortunately, something must have gone very, very bad must have happened because 777s don't just fall out of the sky like that.

Do you think the e/q just - literally - dropped or do you think it would have slowed down while moving forward, like a normal landing, but because of the force of impact, it crashed into the ocean?

Quoting SQ452 (Reply 149):
we of course won't know the reasons for MH370 disappearing for some time I'd imagine (search and rescue, recovery and investigation will all take time)

Will the black boxes even be found, so we can know what happened? If they are not found, we will never know.



The real American classics: LAX and Boeing.
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16999 posts, RR: 67
Reply 154, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 97831 times:

Quoting SQ452 (Reply 149):
The parallel I drew with AF447 was that this flight just 'vanished' mid-flight; we of course won't know the reasons for MH370 disappearing for some time I'd imagine (search and rescue, recovery and investigation will all take time), but the question I have is has there been any instances where the Pitot heating system failed on Boeing aircraft and in particular the 777?

Pitot systems do fail from time to time but two things are worth remembering in context:
- There are at least three independent air data systems on large airliners. The likelihood of them all failing is infinitesimal.
- Even without valid speed data, AF447 would have landed safely if the pilots had followed the checklist written for just such a situation. The pitots were out for less than a minute. In fact, dozens of A330 flights had had similar problems and landed safely. To quote SlamClick: Basic pitch and power, how many times does it have to save your life before you value it?



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offline9V-SPJ From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 749 posts, RR: 0
Reply 155, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 96607 times:

Flightradar24 uses ADS-B data which is the most "real-time" position of the aircraft since aircraft state data is reported by the aircraft itself, and because there are quite a few listener stations in the area, I would assume it to be very accurate.

User currently offlineflyingbird From Sweden, joined Mar 2005, 163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 156, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 96713 times:

Quoting KFlyer (Reply 146):
Do we have really clarified the location where the a/c went missing? As per FR24 data, this would be around 40 mins from KUL, likely somewhere near waypoint IGARI. But multiple news reports indicate this was two hours away from KUL.

https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/442171910361976832

#MH370 disappeared from radar after 40 minutes and not 2 hours as media has been reporting. Flightradar24 showed correct position 4 h ago.

https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/442145510615289856

There is no doubt that the last reported position of #MH370 is about 150 km north east of Kuala Terengganu. pic.twitter.com/8YH1bL8iBD


User currently offlinelaxboeingman From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 538 posts, RR: 0
Reply 157, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 95354 times:

Do we know if the e/q squawked something unusual?


The real American classics: LAX and Boeing.
User currently offlineflood From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1381 posts, RR: 1
Reply 158, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 95743 times:

Quoting KFlyer (Reply 147):
Do we have really clarified the location where the a/c went missing?

A lot of conflicting reports, but the last transponder position as reported by FR24 (pin) is only roughly 60 miles (yellow line) from the location as reported by the Vietnamese Navy (according to Yahoo) 153 miles south of Phu Quoc (red line).



User currently offlinelaxboeingman From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 538 posts, RR: 0
Reply 159, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 94778 times:


async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8">>



The real American classics: LAX and Boeing.
User currently offlineBruce From United States of America, joined May 1999, 5046 posts, RR: 15
Reply 160, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 94375 times:

I realize its speculation but I'm going to put this out there. I think it was sabotage. The plane simply vanished during a level and routine part of the flight in fairly calm airspace. Also keep in mind the ETOPS system redundancy, if they had an engine or electric bus go out they would not have vanished. The 777 is a good plane. I can't think of any other reason the ELT beacon would not have gone off other than it was suddenly and violently ripped apart.

I certainly hope the black boxes are easier to find than AF447.



Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
User currently offlineUA787DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 420 posts, RR: 0
Reply 161, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 93398 times:

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 157):
Do we know if the e/q squawked something unusual?

It didn't, which is inreresting.


User currently offline757223 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 83 posts, RR: 0
Reply 162, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 93448 times:

Quoting flood (Reply 158):
A lot of conflicting reports, but the last transponder position as reported by FR24 (pin) is only roughly 60 miles (yellow line) from the location as reported by the Vietnamese Navy (according to Yahoo) 153 miles south of Phu Quoc (red line)

I saw another report that said 153 NM South of Tho Chu Island, which is even closer to your yellow pin, flood.



A/C Flown: 727,737,747,757,767,777,A319/320,MD-80,DC-9,DC-10,L-1011,BAC-111,F-100,CRJ-200/700,EMB-135/140/145,SF-340
User currently offlinekl692 From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 676 posts, RR: 0
Reply 163, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 93737 times:

Malaysia Airlines plane crashes in South China Sea with 239 people aboard: report

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...lines-flight-idUSBREA2701720140308

Soo Sad



A310, A330,A346,B73H, B747,B772,B77W,CRJ
User currently offlinelaxboeingman From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 538 posts, RR: 0
Reply 164, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 93052 times:

"06:26 GMT - Ships sent - Faridah Shuib, a spokeswoman for the Malaysian Maritime Enforcement Agency says Malaysian authorities have dispatched a plane, two helicopters and four vessels to search seas off its east coast in the South China Sea.
The Philippines says it is sending three navy patrol boats and a surveillance plane to help efforts.
06:24 GMT - No warning - The airline has said the plane relayed no distress signal or other indications of trouble."

http://my.news.yahoo.com/malaysian-a...-flight-live-report-050312770.html



The real American classics: LAX and Boeing.
User currently offlineamwest2united From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 409 posts, RR: 0
Reply 165, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 92439 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 159):
I certainly hope the black boxes are easier to find than AF447

Gulf of Thailand is on average 148ft deep, max is 260ft, should make it much easier to find the black boxes



Life is what happens to you while you making plans to live it!
User currently offlineKFlyer From Sri Lanka, joined Mar 2007, 1226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 166, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 91354 times:

MH press conference just confirmed the last known location as being closer to the area reported by flightradar24.


The opinions above are solely my own and do not express those of my employers or clients.
User currently offlinehb88 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 814 posts, RR: 31
Reply 167, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 90745 times:

The only quasi reliable information I can see in all the reports is the position and the report that the a/c lost height rapidly and changed track from 028 to 333 deg. To me this indicates some type of rapid decompression event coupled with the PF changing course from something near their original track to another, possibly attempting to head to nearest landfall. This could be consistent with an inflight emergency requiring an immediate landing. I guess we'll find out soon enough.

User currently offlineUA787DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 420 posts, RR: 0
Reply 168, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 90761 times:

Quoting Bruce (Reply 160):
I certainly hope the black boxes are easier to find than AF447.

The Gulf of Thailand has a maximum depth of only 260 ft/80 m so it shouldn't be as hard to find as AF 447. The suspected crash site is somewhere in the vicinity of the Gulf of Thailand and the nearby South China Sea.


User currently offlineryu2 From Taiwan, joined Aug 2002, 490 posts, RR: 0
Reply 169, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 90238 times:

Some of these things don't line up. MAS said they lost contact with Subang (guessing they mean Lumpur) Control 2 hours after takeoff. At that time, they should be long been handed over to Ho Chi Minh and in Vietnamese airspace, and not under Malaysian ATC control anymore.

If they had crashed at the point that FR24 or the place that Vietnamese navy was reporting (around waypoints IGARI or BITOD), then that should have been no more than 45 minutes flight time from KUL.

[Edited 2014-03-07 22:49:46]

User currently offlinehaynflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 146 posts, RR: 0
Reply 170, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 89958 times:

9:02PM: Vietnamese Navy Admiral Ngo Van Phat confirms MH370 has crashed into the Gulf of Thailand 153 miles off of Thu Cho Island.

Source:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...sia-airlines-flight-mh370-missing/



Thu Cho (Thu Chao) islands are actually the small islands south west of the Vietnamese coast closer to KL than the map above shows.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts."
User currently offlineUA787DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 420 posts, RR: 0
Reply 171, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 89079 times:

Quoting ryu2 (Reply 169):
Some of these things don't line up.

MAS said in their most recent conference that the site of lost contact is near the one given by flightradar24.
So...if you discount the whole 2 hour number it works.


User currently offlinetrent1000 From Japan, joined Jan 2007, 551 posts, RR: 2
Reply 172, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 89628 times:

I flew through nearby airspace Friday about 10-11 am local time on an A380 and we were all firmly strapped in from turbulence for at least 45 mins. The flight map showed a diversion, I assume to avoid worse weather conditions.

User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16999 posts, RR: 67
Reply 173, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 88580 times:

Quoting ryu2 (Reply 169):
Subang (guessing they mean Lumpur)

I'm pretty sure it is Subang Control Area.

Quoting ryu2 (Reply 169):
If they had crashed at the point that FR24 or the place that Vietnamese navy was reporting (around waypoints IGARI or BITOD), then that should have been no more than 45 minutes flight time from KUL.

That depends on the exact track. Flights can spend a lot of time getting "on course" while climbing out due to winds and traffic patterns.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlinepoolkeeper From Panama, joined Nov 2013, 51 posts, RR: 0
Reply 174, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 88156 times:

I don't doubt they will locate the crash site rapidly. AF447 crashed outside radar/radio coverage and they had to search a huge area with great depths.
Here they had a radar tracking it and also the ADB-S position.

The "black box" should also transmit a radio signal which has limited reach under water but if they get close, they will find it fast.


User currently offlineDIRECTFLT From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 55 posts, RR: 0
Reply 175, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 87123 times:

Quoting Bruce (Reply 160):
I certainly hope the black boxes are easier to find than AF447.

Here is link to the NOAA depth chart for the Gulf of Thailand (Chart 93010)

http://www.charts.noaa.gov/NGAViewer/93010.shtml



Smoothest Ride so far: AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
User currently offlineairportugal310 From Palau, joined Apr 2004, 3582 posts, RR: 2
Reply 176, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 86361 times:

Quoting DIRECTFLT (Reply 175):

It doesn't seem to work on my iPad. What is the depth in and around the area that we are talking about?



I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
User currently offlineDIRECTFLT From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 55 posts, RR: 0
Reply 177, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 86441 times:

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 176):

It doesn't seem to work on my iPad. What is the depth in and around the area that we are talking about?

55-67 Meters

The Page says Adobe Flash Player required to view the chart

[Edited 2014-03-07 23:08:07]

[Edited 2014-03-07 23:09:48]


Smoothest Ride so far: AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
User currently offline7BOEING7 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 1505 posts, RR: 8
Reply 178, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 85515 times:

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 173):
Flights can spend a lot of time getting "on course" while climbing out due to winds and traffic patterns.

Define "a lot", shouldn't be more than 10 minutes in the worst case. Flight profile to altitude/position is very similar to prior flights.

Quoting poolkeeper (Reply 174):
The "black box" should also transmit a radio signal which has limited reach under water but if they get close, they will find it fast.

And it will be easier to pick up the big pieces off the bottom so if the cause is not apparent from the voice or data recorder the airplane structure may tell the story.