Starlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17002 posts, RR: 67
Reply 1, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 107515 times:
Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 245): The sea there is just about 250 km times 500 km large. It really worries me that nothing could be found, given the SAR assets put to action. The P-3 Orions, C-130, the countless helicopters...
Seas are large places. 250x500km may not sound that large but this is 125000 square kilometers (a bit under 50k square miles). Even with this fleet of planes and ships it is a fairly large area to search through.
Then again, it seems increasingly odd that nothing has been found considering several bits of an airplane involved a crash should be calling for attention.
Much as I find it rather ridiculous the Flight 714 to Sydney scenario has a certain appeal to it.
[Edited 2014-03-09 06:17:00]
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
poolkeeper From Panama, joined Nov 2013, 51 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 107245 times:
Quoting YokoTsuno (Reply 225):
The antennas are built to send the signal with maximum range horizontally and the most limiting factor is earths curvature. As said above there are extended range cell sites that can reach longer mounted on very high antennas along highways in rural areas.
The limitation is normally on the cell phone side as they have limited output power and can't send a signal strong enough to "talk" with the cell site.
The opposite is in more populated areas where you want a very small coverage and many cell sites to increase capacity. You limit the output power and/or tilt the antennas so in a city you can have less than a 1 km of reach per site.
So you can get a signal in an airplane but only if you fly on lower altitude and close to an area with cell site. If you have several cell sites you run into problem with the airplanes speed (specially with 2G), you can be connected but your calls will fail as you are trying to change from tower to tower and the network can't keep up.
(Off topic: This is also one of the reasons the mobile operators are against using phones on airplanes, it messes up their network at take offs and landings if you have have 1000s of phones trying to be connected at high speed)
When they talk about making calls on an airplane then it is routed through satellites.
In case of mobile calls you have a very small cell on-board with a very low output power (nano cell or pico cell), the same as you can use to increase indoor coverage in buildings.
You can get the ring tone even if you are calling a shutdown cell phone specially when you call somebody who is roaming. When you call a person, your operator needs to know where the person is located.
This is done by talking to the called phones network database (HLR in 2G) and there you have information where to route your call (operator, area etc).
So if the person is roaming, your network need to communicate with the foreign network to connect the call. If you have left your phone on when you take off, the phone will not get de-registered correctly and the network will still try to page it when a call arrives.
All this takes a lot of time and not to give the caller just silence (caller will hang up), a ringing tone can be generated. You can notice this sometimes with international calls when you first have one ringing tone and then it changes to a different one.
Sorry for the long answer... maybe got too carried away
Copied from previous thread as it was posted after closing of thread
irregking From Germany, joined Feb 2008, 145 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 107121 times:
Quoting vegas005 (Reply 220): I just flew on a 747 in the upper deck business class and the flight attendant would come by with two trays of food, kick the bottom of the cockpit door with his foot and then the cockpit door would open. I could have been in the cockpit easily, so if I could do it I'm sure the bad guys have figured it out.
Quoting kelebek (Reply 227): Quoting vegas005 (Reply 220):
I just flew on a 747 in the upper deck business class and the flight attendant would come by with two trays of food, kick the bottom of the cockpit door with his foot and then the cockpit door would open. I could have been in the cockpit easily, so if I could do it I'm sure the bad guys have figured it out.
4 words: Cockpit door surveillance camera.
I am sure they checked it before opening the door for the busy-handed FA on your flight.
Cockpit doors don't open just because someone bangs them with their foot (or knocks on them in a normal way).
PS. I just love people who post on here, who yet think that all cabin crew are helpless and not properly trained and are just doing the job for the non-existing glamour of it all.
Yes, we are helpless against weapons and maniacs who are stronger than us but we CAN get help if we need it and I can ASSURE you that cockpit doors shut A LOT quicker than they open. This is my halfwhat-off-topic two cents to the people on here who think that the systems in place are completely worthless.
As I always say to anyone who throws a hissy-fit about air-travel security: "If you don't feel safe, don't fly!" (Which is usually followed by "Now please sit down or get off.")
Worked on: A300,310,319,320,321,332,333,342,343,346,380,B732/3/4/5,744,DC10 -- Currently working on: A380 only
giopan1975 From Greece, joined Jun 2009, 269 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 106259 times:
According to pilot below MH370 was still in the air at 1:30 am
SEPANG: A BOEING 777 pilot, who was flying 30 minutes ahead of the missing Malaysia Airlines aircraft, said he established contact with MH370 minutes after he was asked to do so by Vietnamese air traffic control.
The captain, who asked to not be named, said his plane, which was bound for Narita, Japan, was far into Vietnamese airspace when he was asked to relay, using his plane's emergency frequency, to MH370 for the latter to establish its position, as the authorities could not contact the aircraft.
"We managed to establish contact with MH370 just after 1.30am and asked them if they have transferred into Vietnamese airspace.
"The voice on the other side could have been either Captain Zaharie (Ahmad Shah, 53,) or Fariq (Abdul Hamid, 27), but I was sure it was the co-pilot.
"There were a lot of interference... static... but I heard mumbling from the other end.
"That was the last time we heard from them, as we lost the connection," he told the New Sunday Times.
How I love Tintin - and this episode, "Flight 714 to Sydney", is among my favorites.
Hmmm. I imagined a single airplane with its crew could search a strip about 2-3 kilometers wide. Then, every 15 kilometers one search flight (assuming that the debris is spread quite wide) should be manageable. And by now, at least some floating debris should have been found. But perhaps a marine SAR guy could chip in...
So this is either a Hollywood-style hijacking to a secret Tintin island, or the plane rather was rather atomized upon impact, SR111-style, and leaving no floating debris.
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
HansHubers From Netherlands, joined Feb 2006, 87 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 106185 times:
Quoting cipango (Reply 7): 2 passengers were travelling with stolen passports and have purchased a ticket simultaneously as their E-ticket numbers were only one digit apart. They were flying KUL-PEK-AMS-CPH
The other passenger was flying KUL-PEK-AMS-FRA if I'm not mistaken.
Both stolen passports were registered with Interpol, but Malaysia didn't update the list of invalid travel documents. Apparently both passports haven't been used since 2012 and 2013, respectively (or they have been used in a way that wouldn't trigger suspicion with any government).
[Edited 2014-03-09 06:41:14]
[Edited 2014-03-09 06:42:12]
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
Gonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1985 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 103882 times:
Not trying to "solve the case" before the investigators, but the lack of debris concentrated in a límited area and the stolen passports lead to an intentional destruction of the plane at FL 350. I would be very happy if I'm completely wrong and the cause of this is related to a tech mistake or failure, but I'm turning more pesimistic every hour...
Tobias2702 From Germany, joined Sep 2008, 718 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 102588 times:
Quoting NDiesel (Reply 13): Vietnam search and rescue aircraft spotted new floating object. Authorities are not sure what it is.
"The suspected fragments were found floating about 50 miles south-southwest of Tho Chu Island and were believed to be a piece of an inner door and part of an airplane tail, Vietnamese officials said. Earlier Sunday, Vietnam's search and rescue officials said that they were investigating a report about a suspected piece of yellow debris seen floating in the same area."
source: Wall Street Journal
How do the SAR guys arrive at any interpretations about what they might have spotted? Are there true experts at hand who can reliably identify aircraft parts? Are there any attempts to recover suspicious looking debris or is this "identification" simply done by looking at some blurred photos?
Yesterday's search concluded with an (alleged) oil smear; has this been investigated any further? Today, they came up with some other stuff. To me, this looks like some agency who is deperate to announce some kind of success.
PA, AF, UK, BA, AB, DL, LH, FR, BD, A3, EZY, DY //// A319/320/346, B733/735/73G/738/744/763, AT4, 146, CR2, DH4
na From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10654 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 102611 times:
Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 19): Not trying to "solve the case" before the investigators, but the lack of debris concentrated in a límited area and the stolen passports lead to an intentional destruction of the plane at FL 350. I would be very happy if I'm completely wrong and the cause of this is related to a tech mistake or failure, but I'm turning more pesimistic every hour...
If terrorists would have blown the 777 up at flight level then there would be many loose parts, mostly small, floating over a relatively vast area. That no traces have been found in two days does more look like it went down at high speed largely in one piece, taking "everything" underwater in the event.
If it had broken into pieces at FL350 I would imagine there would be plenty of debris to be found within large area, so far they have found none, which wasn't the case with most other in flight breakups.
I would rather say it crashed somewhere rather intact... I wonder if a bomb attack / failure of some kind would have caused the aircraft to disappear from radar a lot before it impacted the surface. If the damage had been serious enough to disable communications and such, yet still left the aircraft somewhat flyable could have made it to fly a lot off course before final impact. Perhaps it could have ended up in some rural parts of Malaysia, if the aircraft turned around? A crash site in middle of a rain forest could be difficult to spot.