Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 8  
User currently offlinejetblueguy22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 2798 posts, RR: 4
Posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 73342 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

Due to length part 7 was locked for further contributions. Please feel free to continue your discussion in part 8.

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B777-200ER missing enroute KUL-PEK (by Longhornmaniac Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2 (by LipeGIG Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 3 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 7 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)


A select few members have been making remarks towards others in the “Missing Malaysia Airlines 777 threads” for speculating about the fate of 9M-MRO, her crew and passengers. Given the fact that there is so much uncertainty going on at this stage, speculation is going to be a factor on this site and also at the biggest and greatest news corporations of the globe. At least until we all have a clearer picture. Is it a perfect situation – certainly not? That being said, we need to stay dynamic in a possible fast-changing situation.

It is not unique to this incident and if we go back in history and trace remarkable aviation events we will see that speculation has been an aspect, essential to some healthy debate. It is not the intention of the moderators to stifle the opinions of members that fall within the rules-and regulations of airliners.net. All that we kindly request from all our members is to stay within the site’s parameters. Please be respectful towards one another and let us all hope for the best possible outcome. Enjoy the forums!


Regards and thanks so much for your co-operation,

Pat


You push down on that yoke, the houses get bigger, you pull back on the yoke, the houses get bigger- Ken Foltz
251 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinerampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3138 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 72979 times:

I made the very last post in the previous thread, taking the liberty of re-posting it here:

I had asked about the plausibility of the plane crashing into a mountain, and...

Quote:
Quoting s5daw (Reply 82):
Wouldn't that make it much more likely for someone to pick ELT signal by now?

Has there ever been an instance where a "black box" has been destroyed in a crash?

-Rampart


User currently offlinehivue From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 1077 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 72529 times:

Quoting rampart (Reply 2):
Has there ever been an instance where a "black box" has been destroyed in a crash?

Didn't they only recover one FDR CVR set from the 9/11 planes?


User currently offline7BOEING7 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 1592 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 72570 times:

Quoting Web500sjc (Reply 277):
Quick Electrical power loss... Anyone know what the RAT powers on the 777?

You'd have to lose both engine generators, both backup generators, the APU wouldn't auto start/start, and lose the battery -- the odds of that are to say the least to small to think about. If you did lose all that I'm guessing the RAT wouldn't be able to provide any power either. But to answer your question, the RAT provides enough electrical power (Captain's & FO's instrument bus and Battery bus) to safely get the airplane to an airport and land


User currently offlinehivue From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 1077 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 72559 times:

cipango did a great recap at the start of part 7. Unfortunately it still is completely up-to-date.

User currently offlineCoal From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2047 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 72434 times:

I just received an email from a user who just registered, zhouyixiao1992.

He's requesting an interview, online, which I find slightly amusing. In any case, I will not be answering as I am purely an amateur and at best speculating like everyone else.

Here are the questions if anyone is willing to be interviewed:

1/ How many factors will affect the safety of a trip by plane and What are
they? We suppose the list may contain "aircraft type", "air route",
"captain", "weather", "airline company's financial condition"and so on.

2/ How the factors will affect the safety? Could you tell us more details
about every factor? or you can give us some official or reliable
references/website links about that.
2.1/ Which aircraft type was the safest one in Civil Aviation? Whether it
is true that a big aircraft is surely safer than a small one. Any other
tips for the passengers?
2.2/ It's said that a "sea" air route will confront more dangers, is it
true?
2.3/ How financial condition will affect the aircraft's safety condition?
etc.

3/ About MH370, if we exclude the possibility of terrorism, which factors
will be the most likely that makes an Boeing 777 crash on the sea? the
weather, the mechanical breakdown, or others?

Cheers
Coal

[Edited 2014-03-09 20:46:23]


Nxt Flts: VA SYD-CBR-SYD | QF SYD-DFW | AA DFW-TLH-MIA-DFW | QF DFW-SYD
User currently offlineWeb500sjc From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 739 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 72170 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Senchingo (Reply 285):

So can it power radios or transponders?

Quoting dirktraveller (Reply 283):

Now that I see what you are asking...

1) we agree, The ministers comments are out of line.

2) the border control can detain those entering their soil, or deny entry to those trying to enter their soil. I am not sure if a country can do this to their own citizen, but they could defiantly do this to a citizen of another country.

3) as has been explained - Malaysia did not check to see if the passports were stolen. They just did a check of the passport in front of them - check the person to the picture, check the expiration dates, check any outstanding concerns in the Malaysians database, and stamped the passport. Interpols database was never checked, nor was the country of origins database checked.


Post from locked thread, after the lock message sorry for broken links

[Edited 2014-03-09 20:41:10]


Boiler Up!
User currently offlinechrisrad From Australia, joined Dec 2000, 1069 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 72017 times:

Sadly as predicted.

Vietnam says cannot find object from missing jet

KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia: Vietnamese searchers on ships worked throughout the night but could not find a rectangle object spotted Sunday afternoon that was thought to be one of the doors of a Malaysia Airlines passenger jet that went missing more than two days ago.

Doan Huu Gia, the chief of Vietnam’s search and rescue coordination centre, said Monday that six planes and seven ships from Vietnam were searching for the object but nothing had been found.

Read more: MISSING MH370: Vietnam says cannot find object from missing jet - Latest - New Straits Times http://www.nst.com.my/latest/font-co...F7.224368%2F7.425366#ixzz2vWlrAaNd



Welcome aboard Malaysia Airlines! Winner of Best Cabin Staff 2001,2002,2003,2004,2007,2009,2012
User currently offlineflyenthu From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 355 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 71520 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

How long was it before AF 447 wreckage was found? Was it over 3 days. Just wondering....thanks!

User currently offlineSenchingo From Germany, joined Oct 2010, 111 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 71570 times:

Quoting Coal (Reply 6):
I will not be answering as I am purely an amateur and at best only Deputy Armchair CEO

Sorry to say, but you are pushing it too far now... Deputy Armchair CEO? Come on...

Quoting Web500sjc (Reply 7):
So can it power radios or transponders?

I would say if the RAT is deployed, it would purely be for vital mechanical systems but not for communication. However i am not a mechanic/system professional, so i would rather leave this one to the specialists.

Brgds/Sen


User currently offlinestuyyz From Canada, joined Jul 2011, 37 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 71234 times:

Malaysian authorities about to give a press conference....

User currently offlineflyenthu From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 355 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 71014 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I swear by 777s and go out of my way to fly on them. I just love the aircraft. This really saddens me as it does so many others. Hope there is a resolution soon. Cannot imagine what the loved ones are going through. The human aspect of this accident is unfathomable.

User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17039 posts, RR: 66
Reply 12, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 71018 times:

I'll take a stab at this "interview" but will post here so everyone can read and comment. For credentials record, I am a licensed commercial pilot but not on airliners.

Quoting Coal (Reply 6):
1/ How many factors will affect the safety of a trip by plane and What are
they? We suppose the list may contain "aircraft type", "air route",
"captain", "weather", "airline company's financial condition"and so on.

There are many many factors. The most important ones are perhaps maintenance, operational procedures, weather and crew training.

Quoting Coal (Reply 6):
2/ How the factors will affect the safety? Could you tell us more details
about every factor? or you can give us some official or reliable
references/website links about that.

Aviation-safety.net has good stats on causes of historical accidents.

Quoting Coal (Reply 6):
2.1/ Which aircraft type was the safest one in Civil Aviation? Whether it
is true that a big aircraft is surely safer than a small one. Any other
tips for the passengers?

That question is meaningless. All civil aircraft flying today are extremely safe. Crashes are so few, and for different reasons, that comparing models is invalid statistics.

There is no real data suggesting large airliners are inherently safer than small ones. The simple fact that more small airliners are flying means if there is an accident, it is more likely to be a small airliner. This does not mean small airliners are less safe.

The airline, meaning maintenance, crew training and operational procedures, has a great impact on safety. The model of airliner is more or less irrelevant in this regard.

Quoting Coal (Reply 6):
2.2/ It's said that a "sea" air route will confront more dangers, is it
true?

Not in any material way at cruise.

Quoting Coal (Reply 6):
2.3/ How financial condition will affect the aircraft's safety condition?
etc.

It might impact the state of mind of crews. It might also affect maintenance, but this is strictly regulated so unlikely to be affected unless the airline is doing very badly.

Quoting Coal (Reply 6):
3/ About MH370, if we exclude the possibility of terrorism, which factors
will be the most likely that makes an Boeing 777 crash on the sea? the
weather, the mechanical breakdown, or others?

So many possibilities. Hijack, bombing, pilot suicide, weather is extremely unlikely (and was fine at the time of the accident), mechanical failure is also extremely unlikely, pilot error but this is a very complex issue.

[Edited 2014-03-09 20:50:37]


"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineWingtips56 From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 391 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 70469 times:

OK, now we'll wait and see if Piers Morgan quotes from your " interview" on his next report.

(Sarcasm font assumed)



Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines
User currently offlinemandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6858 posts, RR: 75
Reply 14, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 70501 times:

Quoting Coal (Reply 6):
Here are the questions if anyone is willing to be interviewed:

As a fellow amateur and deputy armchair ceo, send him/her to me.
Commenting on this accident, I just spent the weekend swamped by the media with my face splattered across TV screens in Indonesia, and Canada, as well as being quoted on print and web media in English, French, Spanish, Chinese and Vietnamese. (And Greek... no Russian or Portuguese yet!)... so another Chinese media wouldn't hurt...

That explains why I've hardly been writing on a.net regarding this accident (and that there's not much to go on, but the topics has been filling quickly making it impossible to catch up)

*On a personal note, I hate accidents on saturdays... coz it means I don't get to have my weekend.



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17039 posts, RR: 66
Reply 15, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 70167 times:

Quoting Wingtips56 (Reply 13):
OK, now we'll wait and see if Piers Morgan quotes from your " interview" on his next report.

(Sarcasm font assumed)

There really should be a sarcasm tag.  



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6204 posts, RR: 30
Reply 16, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 69885 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Coal (Reply 5):
Here are the questions if anyone is willing to be interviewed:

Boy, if those are the question journalists are asking, my opinion of them in matters of aviation just went down a few more notches.

Quoting Web500sjc (Reply 6):
Malaysia did not check to see if the passports were stolen. They just did a check of the passport in front of them

According to an interview in the BBC with the guy from Interpol in charge of the passports, no other country has checked those two in particular, and that in general, few countries ever check the list. According to him there are currently 39 million passports in their database reported as stolen.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 12):
I'll take a stab at this "interview"

No reflection on you from my comment above. It´s just that I find those questions useless and maybe even absurd.



MGGS
User currently offline3rdGen From Bahrain, joined Jul 2011, 236 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 69857 times:

Quoting flyenthu (Reply 9):

How long was it before AF 447 wreckage was found? Was it over 3 days. Just wondering....thanks!

Read somewhere that it was around 2 weeks


User currently offlineAF185 From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2012, 259 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 69894 times:

Quoting flyenthu (Reply 9):
How long was it before AF 447 wreckage was found? Was it over 3 days. Just wondering.

The first debris were spotted 2 days following the suspected crash, and confirmed to be from AF447 the day after. The "iconic" vertical stabilizer was found 6 days after the crash.


User currently offlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1580 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 69618 times:

Quoting flyenthu (Reply 8):
How long was it before AF 447 wreckage was found? Was it over 3 days. Just wondering....thanks!

Yes but it was a 2 day sail to the last known co-ordinates

Quoting flyenthu (Reply 11):
I swear by 777s and go out of my way to fly on them. I just love the aircraft.

I'm not a fan but that doesn't mean that I question their safety record.



BV
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7560 posts, RR: 18
Reply 20, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 69624 times:

That part sighted, since the -200 has no overwing exits, could have been a disintegrated part from a door then. Looks like the upper half of a door.

And as others posted, it sunk.



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offline7BOEING7 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 1592 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 69583 times:

Quoting Senchingo (Reply 9):
I would say if the RAT is deployed, it would purely be for vital mechanical systems but not for communication.

It will handle communication and navigation as well as various hydraulic requirements.


User currently offlineSenchingo From Germany, joined Oct 2010, 111 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 69309 times:

Quoting flyenthu (Reply 9):
How long was it before AF 447 wreckage was found? Was it over 3 days. Just wondering....

Well, depends on what exactly you mean by "wreckage". The FDR was found on 27/04/2011 (so if you take the crash morning of 01/06/2009 it was 695 days).

Bodies and pieces of the wreckage have been first discovered on 06/06/2009, 5 days after the accident.

All activity was stopped on 03/06/2011, 728 days after the occurence.

Brgds/Sen


User currently offlinedirktraveller From Singapore, joined Jan 2011, 587 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 69306 times:

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 290 in previous thread):

mmigration officials let those Asian descent individuals holding European passports admitted into their border.... We can't blame those immigration officials that way

I agree with what you are saying actually, and again I do apologise if I misleaded you on the earlier reply as I have referred what I was actually trying to say in reply 283 of the previous thread (Part 7).

Quoting 9VSIO reply 289 previous thread:
I don't think you should be detained or refused, but a few quick questions surely wouldn't go amiss, especially if they then don't appear to have an accent, etc.

Well I would agree if a few questions might have actually raised the sufficient grounds for suspiscion. But again, we do not know what actually happened in the border when these individuals entered Malaysia. The officers on duty might have done the sufficient questioning, and that probably these mysterious individuals are well trained into their fabricated story, leading border security officers to have believed their story and admitted them entry to Malaysia.

[quote=Web500sjc (Reply 7):
Interpols database was never checked, nor was the country of origins database checked.

Oops sorry that I have missed this one. I guess this is a lesson learnt for the officials in Malaysia (and probably its neighbours too) for a more thorough identity checks at border crossings, and to stay updated with international databases such as interpol's.


User currently offlineflyorski From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 987 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 69052 times:

Quoting 3rdGen (Reply 17):

Quoting flyenthu (Reply 9):

How long was it before AF 447 wreckage was found? Was it over 3 days. Just wondering....thanks!

Read somewhere that it was around 2 weeks

It took two years before the majority of the wreckage or the black boxes where found on AF447. It took 5 days before any floating debris was found. We are in very early days for MH370.



"None are more hopelessly enslaved, than those who falsly believe they are free" -Goethe
25 Post contains images mandala499 : LOL! It does look a bit odd... But we should all be used to questions such as those and provide the objective answer. And... if you don't want to ans
26 Post contains links LTC8K6 : Spotted from the air roughly the next day by the Brazilian Air Force. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_447#Surface_search
27 Coal : Live briefing from Malaysia happening now 12:03pm SIN/HKT, 4:03am GMT. On CNN and assuming on all others, too. Cheers Coal
28 Coal : Man on TV (I think Malaysian authorities spokesman?) is saying they have search both Gulf of Thailand and Strait of Malacca, e.g. on both sides of Pen
29 laxboeingman : KCAL 9 in Los Angeles just reported that officials are reviewing RADAR because the plane may have started to turn back to KUL before it went down.
30 Post contains links chrisrad : Again just speculation, I saw on twitter a post saying 55 yr fisherman made a police report after sighting a jet flying "unusually and suspiciously lo
31 planesmart : Either the search co-ordinator has ready access to all neighbouring and other country surveillance data, the search is being professionally co-ordinat
32 Post contains links indcwby : http://www.straitstimes.com/the-big-...ane-pilot-contacted-mh370-just-it- Interesting read..... just don't know if its true. "A pilot said he establis
33 LTC8K6 : Day? It disappeared at ~1:22 in the morning.
34 LTC8K6 : Been posted dozens of times. It's not very likely given the claimed time.[Edited 2014-03-09 21:14:28]
35 laxboeingman : That includes the supposed door that was spotted near the oil slicks, right?[Edited 2014-03-09 21:26:43]
36 chrisrad : Probably meaning on that "date"
37 Starlionblue : Not true as stated in previous threads. Known since previous threads. Let's face it. If a journalist doesn't have access to better sources, he's prob
38 laxboeingman : Still, how in the world would he see it? Wouldn't it have been dark?
39 SEA : Already verified long ago as false... That was news... yesterday.
40 LTC8K6 : Well, the plane would have been obvious if it's lights were on. We need to know where he was and what time he saw the plane and a description of the
41 drew777 : Marker lights?
42 AR385 : As I said in the other thread, since this keeps coming up I´ll post it again. Airliners suffering from catastrophic failure brought about for whatev
43 laxboeingman : Yeah, I just saw that. Sorry about that. I was not on here yesterday. Stupid question, but why can't a military airplane or ship with SONAR just go n
44 Coal : On the news conference, a reporter asked if they are investigated a Chinese group claiming responsibility, but spokesman says he does not know of the
45 Post contains links apfpilot : http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...lines-flight-idUSBREA2701720140310 Fair Use: The United States extensively reviewed imagery taken by American s
46 flyenthu : That is eerie! I have no idea, but what could cause the interference as reported by the 777 pilot?
47 laxboeingman : That is true. I didn't think about that. But wouldn't still have been hard to tell altitude?
48 Post contains links spacecadet : The last contact with the aircraft was at 1:35AM UTC on June 1. The first wreckage was spotted (actual wreckage, not something that turned out to be
49 macsid : It is a report by a fisherman. Text is as follows (I've ignored grammatical correctness in favour of translatig the message as givewn in the pic): At
50 747megatop : Guess my question got missed; all that fuel and oil that the Jet was carrying; shouldn't it have made it to the surface and formed a sizeable oil slic
51 LTC8K6 : It couldn't have been near IGARI at 1:22 and near that guy at 1:30...
52 LTC8K6 : The kerosene would evaporate, wouldn't it? Either from high altitude, or just from exposure by now.
53 Starlionblue : Quite. Planes are actually spottable from much further away at night than during the day. Since that transmission never actually happened, it is a bi
54 chrisrad : Thank you, however the puzzling part is that he says it was "leaving the country"
55 UA787DEN : The 777 pilot report is fake. End of story. Any new wreckage reported? They supposedly found a pair of surface slicks a while ago. Anyone know what t
56 Post contains links laxboeingman : http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/03...act-with-plane-carrying-23-people/ This is what I said earlier and then deleted because I could not find the li
57 flood : They're still awaiting the results from the lab. (edit: this per the press conference which ended a few minutes ago)[Edited 2014-03-09 21:34:55]
58 av8ornta : Watching the press conference here in pek, testing on samples taken is being done now
59 laxboeingman : I haven't seen it in new reports since it was first found. I do not know what the results are, but maybe that in and of itself says something.
60 AR385 : I thought the night was clear and there was no weather to speak of.
61 LTC8K6 : What 777 report? I was talking about the police report of a low flying aircraft near Kuala Besut at 1:30...
62 rampart : This would be cause to correct the recommendation in the previous thread for the geographically challenged to use Google Maps. Apparently, if this is
63 stuyyz : They could have entered Malaysia with their real passports.
64 dirktraveller : Based on my limited extent of understanding on Bahasa, it is indeed the fisherman reporting that on 08/03/2014 the fisherman was fishing at around 01
65 laxboeingman : It is in an earlier response, but a pilot claimed he made contact with the plane before it went down.
66 Mir : The shape isn't consistent with a panel on the 777 door. -Mir
67 LTC8K6 : It was rhetorical. I know what 777 report he meant, and I did not reference it in the post he responded to.
68 laxboeingman : OK, sorry about that. It's difficult to tell that when you are not seeing the facial reaction, but I should have known because of the site we are on.
69 Post contains images LTC8K6 : I think he reacted to the "1:30" in my post and assumed I meant the 777 radio report. [Edited 2014-03-09 21:42:52]
70 liftsifter : Here's a general summary for everyone: All evidence or items thought to be evidence (ie stories or pictures) have been debunked or are false. How is i
71 LTC8K6 : Press conference report from another board: "Chief of Malaysian CAA, he did not take questions which were unrelated to SAR. At the moment they do not
72 laxboeingman : OK. I am going to pose my question again because it was missed. What about sung sonar in the area where the plane is believed to be missing? Would it
73 UA787DEN : I believe that is what I did as well. Sorry sir! Carry on. So if the plane was leaving the country as the fisherman said does that support the idea t
74 wjcandee : FOR THE INTERVIEWER: Talking about safety, assuming that you're flying on a major international airline from a First World country, fatal accidents ar
75 laxboeingman : I agree. If it is under water and in one piece, it does prove that the 777 is built very well - in terms of structure strength. I will also mention w
76 Post contains images Starlionblue : I'm not a big expert but I think Magnetic Anomaly Detectors would be more useful. Say you're using sonar and you get a return. Is it simply a rocky f
77 Post contains images nm2582 : The amount of area to scan under water is huge. An airliner travels around 8 miles (13 km) a minute, and could conceivably travel several miles from
78 laxboeingman : That is very true. Thank you for your response. Wouldn't the depth - less than being out in the middle of the ocean - this or another type of technol
79 LTC8K6 : It seems pretty sure that the plane was near waypoint IGARI at the time the fishermen claim to have seen the plane back near the coast again.
80 Condor24 : The loss of an air frame is usually unique. All the theories surrounding a crash & stolen passports are secondary to 'how can an aircraft just dis
81 wjcandee : Relax. It was almost exactly the same deal with the Air France flight. Stuff was seen the next day, but it wasn't crystal clear until ships actually
82 laxboeingman : I believe people would have seen it and reported it if it flew to another country.
83 Post contains links DTWLAX : Just noticed this on Yahoo posted about 4 hours ago. Family of Chinese passenger says mobile phone is working. http://in.news.yahoo.com/family-chin...
84 spacecadet : Titanic is resting at a depth of 12,500 feet. That's a world of difference from the 75-100 feet we're talking about in the area MH370 apparently went
85 LTC8K6 : That seems to be a fairly common claim after airliner crashes.
86 liftsifter : What's really happening here is a communication problem in cell towers. It's impossible that a cell phone is still in working condition after either
87 Post contains images KELPkid : How many magnetic parts can you think of in a typical airliner? The only ferrous metal I can think of in most modern airliners is the steel used in l
88 laxboeingman : I do not know 100%, but I would imagine if water has not gotten into the cabin and it still had battery, then maybe it would work. We do not know, th
89 Starlionblue : This was debunked a few threads ago. I think a MAS staffer even called the number and it wasn't connected. Water attenuates radio signals very quickl
90 345tas : There have been multiple mentions of Malaysian authorities about the Straits, it's got nothing to do with geographic ability. I don't think it's a ca
91 Mir : It shouldn't be. The world is a very big place, and an airplane is a very small thing. If it goes missing in a remote area (i.e. over water), it's no
92 spacecadet : Straits Times is reporting it too. It does seem that they could at least attempt triangulating some signals. Even if the phone's just floating in the
93 Dalavia : What puzzles me is that they are searching in the waters of the Gulf of Thailand and the Straits of Malacca, but there is no mention of any searches
94 Starlionblue : It doesn't have to be the hull/fuselage. Even titanium submarines are detectable because they have ferrous bits in them. I imagine that the amount of
95 Mir : They're detectable if you get lucky and manage to fly close enough to them to pick up their reduced signature, yes. But the chances of you doing so a
96 Halophila : Or southern Thailand. If I'm reading topographic maps correctly, there are quite high mountains that run along the spine of the peninsula. Logic woul
97 Dalavia : Actually the population densities in southern Thailand and the central highlands of northern peninsular Malaysia are patchy. There are some areas of
98 stuyyz : Apparently a fisherman and his friend did...
99 LTC8K6 : I can't figure the Malacca deal at all. If the last reported position is near IGARI, it would take a while to get over to the Straits of Malacca. They
100 specks159 : I still see absolutely no reason why they are searching in the Straits of Malacca. So they have radar indication that the flight tried to turn back. T
101 Dalavia : I would love to know more about the five "no shows" (people who checked in but didn't board the plane). Apparently their luggage was successfully remo
102 LTC8K6 : Except they seem to have been 75 miles or so from the last reported position, yet they report roughly the same time, putting the plane in two differe
103 stuyyz : Saw this tweet, has anybody heard about this.. #mh370 A passenger on the flight MU5093 from Xi'an to Singapore the same day said he saw fire on the se
104 Post contains images TheRocketeer : That's actually 75-100 meters (Or 40-55 fathoms), but you've still made a valid point That's true regarding the sonar buoys aka sonobuoys, but one al
105 LTC8K6 : From the press conference: The search North of Malacca straights was done because of the chance the plane may have begun to turn, no other reason
106 BoeingVista : Around about the Thai / Malaysian boarder from my reading of their position, maybe they should start checking hillsides in southern Thailand?[Edited
107 Post contains links wxmeddler : Now that's interesting, FlightAware log puts him right over the right area and at the right time. (based on track of previous daily flights) http://f
108 specks159 : In that case, there should be a land search being conducted as well. Either they aren't doing one for some reason, or they're not telling us. What ar
109 Halophila : Flight path of that flight about 1:30 would put the a/c at about the border of Thailand and Malaysia. Given the other anecdotal report by the fisherm
110 LTC8K6 : Doesn't seem likely, looking at the path of that flight on FR24.
111 Coal : He saw fire for an hour? Hmmm. I find it a bit hard to believe. He could have also been confused by lights on the Vietnamese coast. If there was a fi
112 LTC8K6 : MU5093 doesn't appear to come anywhere near IGARI, the last reported position of MAS370 at around 1:22. Maybe the fishermen saw MU5093 and misjudged a
113 Skydrol : If you (or any of us here on a.net) find the wait for details and answers to be upsetting, just imagine the family members of passengers... think abo
114 Post contains links vr-hkg : "A businessman in Ketereh claimed that he saw a bright white light, believed to be of an aircraft's, descending at high speed towards the South China
115 specks159 : Where is this area in relation to the oil rigs in the Gulf? It is possible that he could have been seeing a gas flare from a rig.
116 LTC8K6 : I think those greenhouses have struck again!
117 Coal : I disagree. If they indeed tried to go back, and if for whatever reason they crossed land and ditched into the Malacca Strait, the most likely locati
118 vr-hkg : They probably mean "at some point between", not "from". However, yes, it's quite likely it was just lights.
119 LTC8K6 : Moving from land towards the sea? I can't see how that could be MAS370.
120 specks159 : That would be a third (?) source indicating a crash site somewhere off the coast near the Malaysia-Thailand border.
121 LTC8K6 : How are we getting from IGARI at 1:22 to over land near the border at 1:30-1:45?
122 vr-hkg : Yes, doesn't sound terribly likely. The town he's said to be in is about 15 miles inland, Bachok is on the coast ENE of there. But then he doesn't sa
123 BoeingVista : That would mean they crashed into one of the worlds busiest sealanes without being noticed..
124 turjo101 : I am sure this has been discussed many many times after Air France - maybe even in the last few pages ... But I am tired of hearing about passports -
125 Post contains images Coal : I still hold firm my belief that looking for the plane in the Malacca Strait will be fruitless. Cheers Coal
126 specks159 : Thats what puzzles me about this. I'm not inclined to say for sure that these sources actually saw MH370 and not something else. I could see it possi
127 SocalApproach : I am very sad that we still don't seem to be any closer to finding out what brought down this 777. Furthermore I am sure this may have been said alrea
128 wxmeddler : Considering all of the "sightings" that are coming out, could it be possible that the doomed plane started to turn towards Bangkok for an emergency la
129 rampart : Yes, I agree. A post in the previous thread rather rudely dismissed it as lacking geographic ability. I should have used quotes, I couldn't bridge te
130 Post contains links and images vr-hkg : Above is a 180 mile / 290 kilometer circle around IGARI, which is roughly how far you'd get in 20 minutes at the cruise speed of a 777. It's vaguely
131 asetiadi : How long did they took to find the AF 447? I forgot... When this plane in the air, are there any closeby planes that can spot / confirm whether they s
132 AF185 : Check the first 25 posts of this thread..
133 BoeingVista : I find this unlikely, but we are seeing seemingly random sightings, we have seen lost planes before, planes with control problems and planes unable t
134 Post contains images stuyyz : back where we started 7 threads ago!!!
135 specks159 : You can see from this that the closest point of land to IGARI would be the coast right near where the sighting reports have come in from. It doesn't
136 345tas : But none of them particularly credible. "A bright white light" - since when has a plane resembled that? Also, if indeed they had flown from last poin
137 asetiadi : aha...got it. Thanks. Shouldn't they equip BLACKBOX with GPS Signal? , just like the one we have in our car. This case, if the plane goes down, we kn
138 Coal : Well UA 895, judging by the FR24, came pretty close, but by pretty close probably a few tens of miles from it? So perhaps not close enough to see any
139 LTC8K6 : Low altitude would preclude anything near cruise speed, though. Have to be low to be off primary radars.[Edited 2014-03-09 23:29:48]
140 LTC8K6 : Presumably the black boxes are currently under water.
141 747megatop : Folks, this is just an out of the world theory or in fact a question; is it possible for the aircraft to switch off all transponders and then fly unde
142 enilria : Ok, I apologize if this has been brought up. I read that the copilot had 2763 hours and has been with the company since 2007. Obviously, that's not an
143 DIJKKIJK : Whatever happened to the airplane's Emergency Location Transmitter? Why does it have to take so long to locate the wreckage? This was also the issue w
144 enilria : Ok, I apologize if this has been brought up. I read that the copilot had 2763 hours and has been with the company since 2007. Obviously, that's not an
145 LTC8K6 : Why would they work under water? Assuming they survived the massive impact in working order...
146 747megatop : Folks, this is just an out of the world theory or in fact a question; is it possible for the aircraft to switch off all transponders and then fly unde
147 LTC8K6 : Have to fly low to be undetected and use a lot of fuel, and then a bunch of people are going to notice a 777 cruising on by...
148 stuyyz : How many of those hours were on a 777?
149 LTC8K6 : The co-pilot was new to the 777, he was just out of training, IIRC. A CNN reporter flew with him in February and mentioned that he was transitioning
150 USAIRWAYS321 : Is it possible that number is referring only to his 777 hours if he had flown different types with MH? EDIT: Guess not, as other posts indicate.[Edit
151 AS737MAX : Wasn't one of the OZ214 pilots transitioning or had recently transitioned to the 777?
152 Post contains links LTC8K6 : http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/vi...est-malaysia-plane-search.cnn.html Starts discussing the FO at about 1 minute.
153 LTC8K6 : Captain Lee Kang-kook (이강국; 李江鞠; variant Lee Gang-guk), aged 45, in the left seat (captain's position) was the pilot receiving his initia
154 Mir : The aircraft had equipment that reported that information to ATC. At some point it stopped working for undetermined reasons. They do record position
155 Julian773 : The FOs hours don't mean a lot in my opinion. 2700 hours is a decent number. Hours are and indicator of flying experience but not what sort of an oper
156 Starlionblue : This already exists. In many areas including this one, airliners use ADS-B to report to ATC position, speed, altitude and heading every second. The p
157 vr-hkg : Indeed, but you wouldn't need to be anywhere near cruise speed to get to Bachok in the time stated. (Which was my sole point: that it was technically
158 cbrboy : I'm sure many things are going on without the general public being informed. It seems unlikely though that land-based searches are occurring without
159 SEPilot : Primarily the landing gear, and perhaps some engine components. I would think they would be large enough to find.
160 DIJKKIJK : They are designed to work under water. In fact, they are water activated. and small components like these usually survive impacts.
161 LTC8K6 : To add to it, how many people would hear and see a 777 trying to avoid radar as it flew along this supposed route?
162 AS737MAX : Like Jeff Skiles (First officer with Chesley Sulleberger) aboard US1549 had just completed transitioning from the 737s to Airbii
163 westjet_737 : First off, I would just like to say that my heart goes out to all of the families of those on-board. This waiting must be just intolerable. Moreover,
164 LTC8K6 : AFAIK, an ELT can not be heard if it is under water. They are meant to float to the surface to be heard. The antenna can't be under water. That is my
165 pilotaydin : In studies I have done and in many many incidents I have had the chance to investigate and submit reports about, the experience level of the copilot
166 westjet_737 : Thinking about this has me wondering, and I apologize if this has been mentioned before. Do we have any information about which type the MH370 FO is
167 hiflyer : Couple thoughts 1 777 aircraft were routinely delivered with capability for satcom and acars so that the aircraft could 'phone home' constantly. That
168 pilotaydin : I have no idea but I would suspect the 737? I don't know the company policy on how all that goes sorry... Transition programs if you take a look arou
169 LTC8K6 : I wouldn't want to try to operate a big submarine in 45-60 meters of water.
170 Starlionblue : This is an area with tons of boat traffic plus a gaggle of oil rigs. It is far more likely that a life vest, or any other object for that matter, com
171 Coal : From the Weibo account WeiTianXia: "Vietnam News (VNExpress) reported that Beijing time 11:20, Vietnam rescue aircraft discovered a square orange obj
172 groover158 : Not entirely true. Sometimes it's the expert witnesses that are unreliable. For example, a pilot who witnesses an aircraft crash will generally assum
173 LTC8K6 : Seems like airliner life vests are usually yellow?
174 vfw614 : The FO was 27, so he probably started as a cadet or so in 2007, not as a fully qualified pilot. Still surprised that 34 search aircraft do not find an
175 winstonlegthigh : With all that has transpired (almost nothing) since the first hints that something wasn't quite right with MH370, it makes me that much more thankful
176 Coal : And 40 vessels! Not to mention numerous helicopters (unless these are counted as aircraft?). I am curious to know who is coordinating the search effo
177 lxa333 : Like another user said, I swear by the 777 as well. I go out of the way to travel it. A very powerful and overall sound aircraft. In terms of safety i
178 specks159 : I'm assuming that is what the destoryers are doing there. They're designed to have ASW capability (more so than any other surface ship) and are equip
179 Tobias2702 : Could someone clarify this? The given coordinates point to somewhere in the Sulu Sea in the Philippines; the Vietnames Kien Gang province is located
180 Post contains links vr-hkg : "Addressing reporters here this morning, Department of Civil Aviation Director-general Datuk Azharuddin Abdul Rahman said the SAR teams were still wor
181 Post contains images Starlionblue : Agreed. I really don't think I'm safer in a 777 than I am in a 330. The 777 is just as safe to fly with today than it was last week. Just because an
182 liquidair : Does anyone know about the ocean currents prevalent in that area of the world? Direction, speed... That sort of thing. I'm guessing after almost three
183 nm2582 : Transcription error. The original image/article lists the coordinates as: 07 47' 30N, 102 57' 12E This location is 117km NW of the last coordinates f
184 Post contains links laxboeingman : Here is a Reuters Article via Yahoo News from about an hour ago. http://news.yahoo.com/missing-malays...-air-source-002831393--sector.html "'Unfortuna
185 Post contains links vr-hkg : Already ruled not related: http://news.asiaone.com/news/relax/d...ot-mh370-department-civil-aviation As for the coordinates, I'm thinking they've tra
186 vr-hkg : I'm no expert, but even if it broke up at a high altitude, I'd expect a fair amount of floating debris, just spread out over a larger area. (And in a
187 Starlionblue : The theory has been floated like many others. There's a problem with this theory, as with all the others. It is very hard to completely pulverize an
188 A380Heavy : This may be a very silly question because the sea may be too rough in the area, but why don't they use an amphibious aircraft so that when they locate
189 Starlionblue : AFAIK there is at least one amphibian in use. However amphibian aircraft have limitations, for example their shape makes them draggy,so a SAR organiz
190 nm2582 : The date on that news article seems to be older than the date on the weibo image posting. If my browsers translation is working correctly, the weibo
191 hh65man : I spent the first five years of my career on the water doing SAR. After that I spent another twelve in aviation doing SAR. Three standard search patte
192 MerlinIIIB : A substantial surface release of kerosene will evaporate and disperse naturally within 18-24 hours in air temperatures above 25 C. I am an oil spill
193 vfw614 : From what I understand most likely, given the size and color, a single life vest. Certainly nothing unusual that hints at the missing airliner, given
194 B738flyUIA : Let's say, if they are under water and even one doesn't now how deep and would be equipped with with GPS would still be possible to locate them? Have
195 Starlionblue : GPS doesn't work that way. The GPS receiver calculates its position from satellite signals but the satellites have no information about where a GPS un
196 vfw614 : Thanks HH65man, you were posting while I was writing. I appreaciate how difficult it is to find a person or a small vessel / aircraft in the ocean. Ne
197 canadiantree : Assuming the plane was hijacked, and that's a total assumption since we have no evidence so far, is it possible that all radios would have been turned
198 Mir : It's important to remember that GPS does not tell other people where you are. It tells you where you are, you send out a signal to a different provid
199 Starlionblue : Yes it is possible to turn off all radios. Mostly you'd just need to turn off the transponder. Planes are still trackable using primary radar if the
200 philask : I find the theory that it was hijacked and flown somewhere else completely implausible, you're forgetting the fact that civilian and military radar s
201 Coal : Yes, that was the "door" they saw yesterday, which was not related. But the pic found in the WeiTianXia Weibo account shows a different shade of blue
202 9VSIO : And yet we have the Malaysian Air Force general unsure if the plane flew across the peninsula towards the Strait of Malacca....
203 Post contains images canadiantree : Thanks for the reply. I am just wondering how long the plane was still flying after sites like Flight Radar stopped tracking it... The fact that they
204 liquidair : add to that there were 239 people on board of which probably 200 had mobile phones... going back to my question about currents, it would seem they pu
205 Post contains links PanAmPaul : Media reports are now indicating a "possible lifeboat" from the Malaysia Airlines 777 has been sighted. Picture and details at Search for Missing Mala
206 Toulouse : Sky News now stating that this suspected life raft is not related to the aircraft.
207 LLA001 : So far rescue workers are searching with airplanes and ships. Is there anyway satellites could help for locating the misssing airplane ?
208 Mir : I'm not sure of the 777's specifics when it comes to failure modes of the electrical system, but in general lights are a relatively low priority, so
209 Starlionblue : Just to be clear on definitions: - Secondary radar tracks transponders. The transponders respond to interrogation "actively" and so are very easy to
210 nm2582 : some random, totally speculative thoughts... the lack of debris field either means (A) it's not been found yet, or (B) there isn't one. For it not to
211 airevents : Has the possibility of another pilot suicide be discussed already, like the one just recently in Africa?
212 DIJKKIJK : How about the other fluids like oils and hydraulic fluids? Wouldn't they leave a slick? If the aircraft did break up in the air, or upon landing, the
213 s5daw : Are airplanes equipped with life rafts at all?
214 vfw614 : I asked the same question a while ago. Apparently the US has analyzed its data and have no trace of an inflight explosion. Not sure if they are also
215 Starlionblue : Yes. This report was false. I know it is hard but please at least skim the threads. Yes but they'd still have a cockpit oxygen system. And you'd need
216 theaviator380 : Still it doesn't answer one basic primary question > (Not blaming pilots, poor souls) How come pilots didn't give make any call whatsoever to ATC
217 nm2582 : I must have missed it; I've been following the threads all along. I'll update my post so as not to perpetuate the bad information. thanks
218 liquidair : thank you for your reply. I'm not sure how likely that scenario is, but i think if transponder and lights were gone, we might have a plausible state
219 Post contains images Starlionblue : This has been repeatedly addressed. Please skim the previous threads. If there is an emergency requiring immediate action, making a distress call or
220 E195 : Could they have lost all comms (sure some reports of previous years where 772's have lost comms), tried to turn the aircraft which in turn stressed w
221 theaviator380 : Cheers. Understood. Odd chances, rare but possible. Can't deny. I can't focus on work,,mind boggling stuff...continuously thinking about this.
222 BoeingVista : Not really, a cockpit pilot oxygen supply fire like that which wrote off the Egyptair 777 would tick all the boxes, smoke in cockpit, hypoxia, depres
223 F9Animal : Is it possible the plane went down on land, say near the coast of Vietnam? I am not familiar with the terrain, but if it went nose down in say a jungl
224 Starlionblue : I have received better information on primary radar. Apparently all digital now and better than I had previously understood. You do get designated tar
225 Post contains links E195 : Reason I say is due this: http://bit.ly/1cItFaR posted else where: We are adopting a new airworthiness directive (AD) for certain The Boeing Company
226 theaviator380 : It's possible, last position of the flight in an estimate which may be not be accurate at all. As someone mentioned above, it is possible to have all
227 michi : Everybody is talking about primary radar coverage. Is there a map available, where you can see the primary radar coverage of this area? From my experi
228 vfw614 : Probably been asked and answered in one of the threads, but anyway: How long do the CVR and the black boxes transmit signals before they run out of po
229 Speedbird128 : Just to add to this - primary surveillance radar has evolved a lot in the last couple of decades, progressing from a green or orange blob, to a digit
230 liquidair : thank you. does anybody know what the procedure is to restart engines? And what effect it has on aircraft? by that i mean, number of attempts, altitu
231 BackSeater : The large amount of speculation in diverse directions only points to the unfortunate need for guess work in locating an aircraft that has suffered a c
232 Speedbird128 : Negative (for lower airspace at least) - just to update you on this, DFS has PSR installed at all airports as far as I am aware... There are distingu
233 9VSIO : Hmm, in the UK, ATC needed both primary and secondary returns to provide me a radar service outside controlled airspace.
234 theaviator380 : That's very interesting piece of information you provided, haven't read full pdf link yet but what you mentioned sounds possibility. Thanks a lot.
235 michi : Thanks, I didn't know that. However, as I wrote,you wrote: I wonder what primary radar coverage "they" have in the area of the last known position?[E
236 Starlionblue : Not very complex on a modern aircraft. The checklist is obviously longer but in essence: - Indicated airspeed in requisite range. - Fuel cocks open.
237 E195 : No problem. Certainly plausible i guess. Im not one who understands the datings on the AD notices... E195
238 Speedbird128 : Anything is possible - I once worked on an analog 120nm primary radar only display - its updates were painfully slow due to the range of the antennae
239 A380Heavy : In relation to locating a debris field, with clear conditions would it not be possible to use a satellite. When I look at images from things like glob
240 jasondn : Has anyone seen any aircraft equipped with ADS-B transponders on FR24 flying S&R patterns?
241 na : Why arent those SAR guys able to make a photo thats better than with a 1999 cellphone? Can someone please give them a decent 200 $ camera to add to t
242 michi : I guess that the military would have provided position information of what they have seen on their radar without telling the public what kind of equi
243 Speedbird128 : No. FR24 themselves have stated coverage below F300 is lacking in the region. By extrapolating that statement I would assume that seeing assets opera
244 Post contains links mila : Clarification, Primary radar is the "normal" radar, secondary radar adds transponder data but still uses normal radar data. The first(primary) can be
245 liquidair : by effect on the aircraft, i meant what sort of control would you have left in that scenario- no power, no electrics and trying to restart engines? a
246 windshear : Thank you for being blunt! It seems nowadays terrorism is a taboo, even in an industry so much under threat. Such a major in-flight-breakup would not
247 Tobias2702 : Plus, it seems like news/images of their findings are published without having been properly/carefully identified. I mean, two images of alleged debr
248 LTC8K6 : 200ER doesn't seem to be on that list.
249 Starlionblue : It depends and please note the following is generalities as I don't have a 777 type rating. If you can start the APU (Auxiliary Power Unit) you'd hav
250 Post contains links SA7700 : Due to length this thread will be locked for further contributions. All posts added after the thread lock will be removed for housekeeping purposes on
251 poolkeeper : The frequency used for a mobile is very high (from 450MHz to 2.1GHz depending on country and technology) and have no change to penetrate water. I wro
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6 posted Sun Mar 9 2014 06:13:50 by SA7700
MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5 posted Sat Mar 8 2014 21:23:34 by SA7700
MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4 posted Sat Mar 8 2014 09:19:59 by SA7700
MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 3 posted Sat Mar 8 2014 02:25:45 by SA7700
MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2 posted Fri Mar 7 2014 19:29:50 by LipeGIG
China Airlines 747 Missing Enroute TPE To HKG posted Sat May 25 2002 11:05:50 by Fly_airbus
MH370 Malaysian Airlines B777-200ER missing enroute KUL-PEK posted Fri Mar 7 2014 16:30:30 by Longhornmaniac
Malaysia Airlines To Operate Out Of DWC posted Tue Feb 4 2014 21:29:17 by AlitaliaDC10
Malaysia Airlines 777 Replacement/Refurbishment posted Fri Oct 4 2013 22:49:25 by Andrensn
Malaysia Airlines Relaunches Dubai Daily posted Thu Jun 20 2013 03:03:51 by behramjee