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AC Regional Trans-border Cuts At DEN, CVG, More...  
User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32627 posts, RR: 72
Posted (12 years 9 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 1941 times:

Air Canada Regional is ending service on the follwing five trans-Border routes:

Edmonton/YEG-Denver/DEN

Montreal/YUL-Albany/ALB
Montreal/YUL-Portland/PWM

Toronto/YYZ-Cincinatti/CVG
Toronto/YYZ-Kalamazoo/AZO




a.
39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 1, posted (12 years 9 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 1814 times:

Quite sad............


"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16245 posts, RR: 56
Reply 2, posted (12 years 9 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 1798 times:

The YEG-DEN surprises me. It's a 2x daily 146...I guess related to their retirement of the 146.....but why not replace with the CRJ or a daily 732?

Whatever.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32627 posts, RR: 72
Reply 3, posted (12 years 9 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 1798 times:

Just wait eighteen months. We will be seeing airlines adding routes at the same rate they are dumping them right now.


a.
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 4, posted (12 years 9 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 1795 times:

I was surprised too. YEG-DEN has been in service for almost 5 years now. Same frequency, same equipment. Has never changed until now.

Sad time for aviation.  Sad



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 5, posted (12 years 9 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 1788 times:

Mah4546,

I hope so.....



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32627 posts, RR: 72
Reply 6, posted (12 years 9 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 1781 times:

The YWG-DEN cut is surprising, especially since all the other routes are, I think, fairly new (not sure about PWM, but the rest were launched during the summer).



a.
User currently offlineSamurai 777 From Canada, joined Jan 2000, 2458 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (12 years 9 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1765 times:

The YEG-DEN cut was a little surprising to me but then again, look at the equipment they were using - BAe 146s!

Not only did AC say it was planning to ground the 146 fleet probably temporarily, I've seen an article in the Edmonton Journal that said there was a possibilty that AC would opt to reroute ALL tranborder traffic to YEG through YYC! This was only a few days after Sept. 11, although I cannot remember exactly when.


User currently offlineLubicon From Canada, joined Oct 2000, 197 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (12 years 9 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 1738 times:

Here is an article from the Edmonton Sun. It sounds like the YEG-DEN cut is permanent and won't be replaced, at least by Air Canada.

Air Canada cites costs as it chops another Edmonton flight

By TIMOTHY LE RICHE, EDMONTON SUN

Edmonton's been grounded again.

A drop in passengers since the Sept. 11 terrorism attack has forced Air Canada to cut its Edmonton to Denver flight, but a spokesman admitted the route wasn't profitable prior to that anyway.

Air Canada's regional carriers announced yesterday a 24% cut in capacity for its winter schedule, effective Nov. 4 to April 6, including cancellation of Edmonton's Denver flight. Other major cities lost flights as well.

Airline spokesman Dennis Erickson said the cut of the Edmonton-Denver route, which went twice daily non-stop, is permanent.

"All changes will be looked at again prior to implementing our summer schedule," said Erickson. "But at this time it (the Edmonton-Denver cut) is a permanent change.

"We had to stem our losses. These capacity adjustments are to reduce our costs, and restructuring to support a reduced fleet and revenue base. We have seen systemwide anywhere between 40% and a 50% reduction in bookings in the past three to four weeks."

The AirBC non-stop to Denver was announced in mid-1998 and hailed by Mayor Bill Smith and Edmonton Airports as a breakthrough. It was the city's first new, international, non-stop flight since scheduled passenger flights were consolidated at the Edmonton International Airport two years prior.

But in April 1999, Delta Airlines pulled out of Edmonton, killing three flights a day to Salt Lake City.

That blow was softened by Canadian Airlines' launch of non-stop service to Chicago later that year, but that flight was killed earlier this year after the Air Canada takeover.

Edmonton also lost Air Canada non-stop service to Montreal earlier this year. The Alberta capital, the hottest economy in the nation according to the Conference Board of Canada, is left with non-stop U.S. flights to Seattle by Horizon Air, Minneapolis by Northwest Airlines and Los Angeles on Air Canada.

The cut becomes an "inconvenience" for Edmonton-based PCL Construction Group Inc. which maintains its U.S. headquarters in Denver, and uses the AirBC flight regularly.

"Edmontonians will have to go down to Calgary to link into Denver," said Ross Grieve, PCL president and CEO. "I'm sad to see Edmonton losing another linkage to a major hub in the United States. That's tough for Edmonton and our airport authority that fought so hard to get it."

Jim Edwards of Economic Development Edmonton said Air Canada used the older BA146 jet on the route. With proper marketing and better aircraft, the route could be profitable, said Edwards.

"I believe the route is viable," said Edwards. "The equipment that was on it did not help. Edmonton is the hottest economy in the country, perhaps the continent. Edmontonians travel, and if service is provided they will use it."

Mayor Bill Smith said he's heard United Airlines is looking at the Edmonton-Denver route.

"Some airline will go where the market is, and there is definitely a market here for Edmonton-Denver," said Smith.


User currently offlineAFa340-300E From France, joined May 1999, 2084 posts, RR: 26
Reply 9, posted (12 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 1727 times:

Hello,

Were they using BAe 146s on all of the above mentioned routes please?
Was the BAe 146 retirement plan already due to take place before 11 September?

I'm not sure, but has Air Canada modified its position at Montréal - Dorval (YUL) please?


Thank you,

Best regards,
Alain Mengus


User currently offlineYow From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (12 years 9 months 4 weeks ago) and read 1714 times:

AC doesn't use RJs west of YWG. It wouldn't make sense for them to have only a couple RJs out west to save a couple of routes. However, cutting YEG-DEN is surprising. You would think that they would keep the route and replace it with a mainline 319 1x as opposed to 2x with the 146. This would still cut capacity slightly and timed right to connect with UA in DEN could be profitable.

User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16245 posts, RR: 56
Reply 11, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1703 times:

YOW...thanks for the update on the CRJ usage...AC used to operate it to YEG/YYC....I wasn't aware it was no longer used west of YWG. You're right....it wouldn't make sense to base 1 or 2 CRJ's in YEG for the DEN route.

Regards
Neil/Toronto



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineJean Leloup From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 2116 posts, RR: 19
Reply 12, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1698 times:

alain,
No, AC wasn't already planning to retire the 146's before 9/11. Even though they're not real popular, I think the leases were all recently renewed. BTW, this was operated by Air BC, right? How many 146's do ABC have, as compared to Air Nova, who I assume have the rest of them?



Next flight.... who knows.
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16245 posts, RR: 56
Reply 13, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1693 times:

AirBC and Air Nova each operate 5 146's. The 2 fleets are separate and are not integrated from a scheduling standpoint. Eastern terminus for the AirBC 146 is YWG. Western terminus for the Air Nova 146 is YOW.

Neil/Toronto




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineSamurai 777 From Canada, joined Jan 2000, 2458 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1678 times:

Interesting article from the Journal, Lubicon. While it's a sad thing to see the YEG-DEN route cut, I'm sure that this route will be up and running once again, but if it does, it may not be AC doing it.

I don't think this route will stay absent permanently. Eventually, it'll rematerialize, but not for a few years. Despite what Bill Smith (he's often too optimistic), the Mayor, says, I doubt even UAL will even consider YEG for at least a few years because it's being affected no differently than any other airline, including Air Canada.


User currently offline777-200 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 1020 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1676 times:

Wasn't the route to CVG a Fokker 70?


Another Day, Another Dollar.... Young Jeezy
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16245 posts, RR: 56
Reply 16, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1669 times:

YYZ-CVG was an F28.....route started during the Comair strike. Comair has now restarted YYZ-CVG.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineSamurai 777 From Canada, joined Jan 2000, 2458 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1671 times:

777-200, AC doesn't use Fokker F70s. The regional flies older F28-1000s instead.

User currently offlineManiac From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 111 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1667 times:

The route to PWM has been around for a couple of years, and was operated with the fantastic Beechcraft 1900. Sad to see it go, because it was the only scheduled international flight out of the "Portland International Jetport." I guess if you can't fill 19 seats between two cities than you are really hurting for traffic.

User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4971 posts, RR: 51
Reply 19, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1660 times:

Bonjour Alain,

Oui! Air Canada has cut Porltand.Me, and Albany from Montreal. Other cuts include London,Ont and St.John's for the winter.

Mark


User currently offlineYWG777 From Canada, joined Oct 1999, 1264 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1637 times:

I still think AC could pull off YWG-DEN again. Winnipeg is under a major economic boomb right now and is getting alot of new flights here. ACV does fly the CRJ and 2 737's to ORD but alot of pax wanted denver to keep on going. That was not a good call by AC. I hope then we get a LAX flight to susbitute with it.
Its sad to see both YEG-DEN flights gfop. Maybe 1 but not 2. That is surprising aand not only that YVR-DEN is gone which makes me wonder where the BAE-146's are being deployed.
YWG777


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16245 posts, RR: 56
Reply 21, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1628 times:

The cancellation of YEG/YWG-DEN was driven more by the retirement of the 146 than perhaps by the underlying economics of the route, I think.

Hopefully AC will restart YWG-DEN w at least a CRJ.

Neil/Toronto




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineYWG777 From Canada, joined Oct 1999, 1264 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1616 times:

I am able to get acess to AC loads and believe it or not YWG-DEN did really well. CRJ I would think would work on the route or even a 737 for that matter. if any airport needs transborder service in Canada right nopw its YEG/YWG. Both airports are lacking transborder service. YVR,YUL,YYZ and YYC are just boombing with flights and right now Winnipegs economic growth is doing really well. The beast in 10 years for that matter. Houses are going up like weeds hrre and the demand for more routes out of Winnipeg International airport is a key factor as new business grow here. Still would be nice even to see AC doing LAX out of YWG if DEN didn't work.
YWG777


User currently offlineBush From Canada, joined May 1999, 153 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1603 times:

He's backkkkkkk! Nooooooooooooo!

User currently offlineSamurai 777 From Canada, joined Jan 2000, 2458 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 1605 times:

Yyz717 - I'm not sure if a CRJ-200 has the range to go from YEG to DEN fully loaded, but if it does, then that's great. DEN is higher in altitude than even YYC, which might mean greater fuel burn in takeoffs. Although the longest route served by AC's CRJs is - or was YYZ - Kansas City, which is about 2 hours and 15 minutes, I still think YEG and DEN are even farther apart than that.

YWG777, where did you get info on the load factors from YWG to DEN? I thought poor load factors was a factor in AC cutting the YWG-DEN route. While Winnipeg seems to be doing okay, its economic growth doesn't even compare with that of Calgary's or Edmonton's. Even then, YYC and YEG are reporting cuts in overall air service or will likely be getting cuts soon. There is reason to believe the same will happen to YWG. You have to understand that the airline industry is taking a huge hit in passenger numbers and revenue. And on top of all that, there's a national recession looming.


25 YWG777 : I am a gold wing ambasador at YWG I get the loads to know how many people are on the flights. that last week was pretty good averaging 60 + people per
26 Yyz717 : Ya, maybe the YWG-DEN is too far for the CRJ. Perhaps UA Express might start DEN-YEG/YWG with their DEN-based 146's?? UA would be ground handled by AC
27 YWG777 : NW has 6 daily YWG-MSP flights already. 1 of therm is operated by Mesaba which they fly a Sabb 340 with. AC still flys YWG-ORD with 3 daily flights 2
28 Fallingeese : I'm surprised by the move of eliminating Edmonton - Denver mainly because of the amount of traffic on nearly the same flight out of Calgary. United fi
29 FLYYUL : I remember Mr.Milton telling the Winnipeg press, that if he didnt have enough pax on that route, he would cut it. He was complaining of poor loads.. B
30 BA : I remember when AC Regional started the YEG-DEN service. They started it quite a while ago, shortly after DEN opened and it hasn't changed since. Same
31 YWG777 : when did you hear Robert Milton say that to the Winnipeg Press? I didn't read about in the paper or see that on the news. I am sure the airline indust
32 Samurai 777 : In the unlikely event that United or even Continental (there's an article on that in the Edmonton Journal today, BTW, but I'm skeptical that either wi
33 Fallingeese : I can see both United and Continental filling up their planes full into YEG, especially since they are into Calgary. There are very few flights leavin
34 Bush : The reason transborder flights out of YYC have high load factors is because all YEG traffic is funnelled through there. If airlines start adding trans
35 Yyz717 : Bush, you may well be correct about YYC being the 'natural' Alberta hub, much to the frustration of YEG. Ultimately, it will come down to market force
36 YWG777 : I didn't think CO had a secondary base in DEN. If YEG gets back on track then thats a good thing. It looks like alot of business depend on that Denver
37 BA : YWG777, They don't. I find that very strange when they said that. CO only has 3 gates here in DEN. Regards.
38 Fallingeese : Denver is one of the most logical cities to fly from out of Alberta, alot of business is done within the two cities. I wouldn't be surprised to see a
39 Yyz717 : CO used to have a DEN hub (at Stapleton actually) but it was closed. They then built up CLE as their 3rd hub. It is very unlikely that CO will start C
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