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Emirates CEO: Boston Needs Bigger Plane  
User currently offlinechrisnh From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4092 posts, RR: 2
Posted (5 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 23222 times:

Good article in today's Boston Herald covering yesterday's inaugural from Dubai.

http://bostonherald.com/business/bus.../03/boston_dubai_bookings_take_off

Of note is the bullishness displayed by CEO Tim Clark:


“For the life of me, I can’t see why Boston wouldn’t take a double-daily frequency or 380s in the air,” Clark said. “On the basis of the forward bookings, the route would take it.”

Now I suppose every inaugural address has this sort of 'hyperbole,' but I also suppose Emirates sees the advance bookings for Boston-Dubai and knows that a -300ER is needed, and perhaps beyond that...two of them each day. If there's any 'hyperbole,' it's the comment about the A380. That, I think, is far-fetched. Mostly because Boston hasn't prepared itself for handling the 'Super' (the recent Singapore A380 diversion last week notwithstanding).

67 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 11196 posts, RR: 33
Reply 1, posted (5 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 23232 times:

Quoting chrisnh (Thread starter):
Mostly because Boston hasn't prepared itself for handling the 'Super' (the recent Singapore A380 diversion last week notwithstanding).

Airports are usually willing to make the necessary adjustments.

Clark also added he can see Boston A380 service within the year.

http://twitter.com/PeterHoweNECN/status/443118028473909248



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinealphaomega From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 571 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 23137 times:

Handling the various A380 diversions which have frequented BOS are not nearly the same as handling scheduled A380 service, which the airport is very far from being able to do. I see the -300 showing up very quickly, and wouldn't be surprised to have double daily at some point - a morning departure would work well. If the next few weeks are any indication this will happen soon - all flights this week are overbooked.

Massport is also courting a link to MXP, so I'm sure EK would look at this as an option similar to the JFK run.


User currently offlinechrisnh From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4092 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (5 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 23017 times:

I do believe Emirates uses the -200LR as a 'route starter' before a switch to something bigger happens. Look at the relative fleet sizes for the -200LR (ten frames) and the -300ER (a gazillion).

User currently offlinechrisnh From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4092 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (5 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 22690 times:

Quoting alphaomega (Reply 2):
all flights this week are overbooked

Wow...and only 2 unsold yesterday. If the flights are already overbooked in some cases, doesn't the -300ER have to show up on those days that it is?


User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8287 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (5 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 22616 times:

Quoting alphaomega (Reply 2):
Handling the various A380 diversions which have frequented BOS are not nearly the same as handling scheduled A380 service, which the airport is very far from being able to do. I see the -300 showing up very quickly, and wouldn't be surprised to have double daily at some point - a morning departure would work well. If the next few weeks are any indication this will happen soon - all flights this week are overbooked.

Let's not forget that this is Spring Break season for the more than 100 colleges in the area and that EK had some outstanding introductory fares. Then comes Summer which is equally busy. So this year, a 77W maybe but next Winter is when we'll know for sure what this market looks like, especially with TK coming here too.


User currently offlineASA From Bangladesh, joined Dec 2010, 725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (5 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 22524 times:

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 4):
Wow...and only 2 unsold yesterday. If the flights are already overbooked in some cases, doesn't the -300ER have to show up on those days that it is?

Amazing prospects ... TK management must be pulling their hair for not starting sooner!

If bookings are consistently strong ... EK will probably upgauge even before TK arrives!!


User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8287 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (5 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 22389 times:

Quoting ASA (Reply 6):
Amazing prospects ... TK management must be pulling their hair for not starting sooner!

They sort of serve different markets. EK is all about India. TK only serves 2 destinations in India. DXB is too far East even to be a Middle East hub. IST serves not only the ME but Europe too. Until TK can get more destinations and frequencies to India the 2 airlines won't overlap too much. For example, I think Russia and Israel are going to be 2 huge markets for TK from Boston.


User currently offlinebobdino From Australia, joined Jan 2013, 107 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 22173 times:

Quoting alphaomega (Reply 2):
Handling the various A380 diversions which have frequented BOS are not nearly the same as handling scheduled A380 service, which the airport is very far from being able to do.

Why?


User currently offlineparapente From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 1557 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (5 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 21994 times:

VINI VIDI VICI.

The same old Emirates story told over and over again. And they are only just starting!

(still sells loads of 787's ans 350's as other airlines downsize as a result  


User currently offlineASA From Bangladesh, joined Dec 2010, 725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (5 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 21484 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 7):
They sort of serve different markets. EK is all about India. TK only serves 2 destinations in India. DXB is too far East even to be a Middle East hub. IST serves not only the ME but Europe too. Until TK can get more destinations and frequencies to India the 2 airlines won't overlap too much. For example, I think Russia and Israel are going to be 2 huge markets for TK from Boston.

You are right - we actually discussed this before here. But I forgot in the excitement of the moment! 

TK's catchment is indeed a lot different. Russia, Israel, Balkans, Central Asia, Levant, Northern Africa ... all these new markets will be covered by them before they compete with EK for Gulf, Iran/Iraq, and India.

For the Subcontinent, EK is definitely ahead with so many secondary cities and frequencies. For example, EK flies THRICE DAILY to DAC ... two families I know (10 people altogether) are flying BOS-DXB-DAC in a few weeks.

Quoting alphaomega (Reply 2):
Handling the various A380 diversions which have frequented BOS are not nearly the same as handling scheduled A380 service, which the airport is very far from being able to do.

I had the same question. Massport is already working on making two gates compatible with the A380. The runway/taxiway width requirements are manageable if I understood correctly from the other thread. Why is Logan "very far from being able to" handle scheduled A380 service? Maybe a year or two ... or do you think more?

Quoting parapente (Reply 9):

VINI VIDI VICI.

The same old Emirates story told over and over again. And they are only just starting!

Indeed! It is hard to decipher whether demand brings EK, or EK brings demand?!! 

But either way, looks like this route has taken off better than expected already. Either they upgauge soon to a 77W or maybe throw in a second frequency (via MXP)


User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17417 posts, RR: 46
Reply 11, posted (5 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 21306 times:

Quoting chrisnh (Thread starter):
“On the basis of the forward bookings, the route would take it.”

Sure. And the yields? BOSBOM is running around $1000 all in, or about 5.7 cents/mile



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinebehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4766 posts, RR: 43
Reply 12, posted (5 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 21246 times:

BOS is better off going double daily B777s rather than a daily A380 only. With good feed available via B6 code share out of BOS, it will be good for EK especially considering that its prime ISC arrival flight wave does not see a bottle neck situation at 7am DXB time hence why the double daily option with the second flight departing DXB at 0200-0300 is a more viable move IMO !

User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6742 posts, RR: 32
Reply 13, posted (5 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 20684 times:

Quoting ASA (Reply 10):
Why is Logan "very far from being able to" handle scheduled A380 service? Maybe a year or two ... or do you think more?

The airport, particularly its terminals, wasn't designed to accommodate aircraft of that size, and parking the aircraft at Terminal E would block an adjacent gate. This is problematic at a terminal which is already full at peak hours. Taxiway spacing is also a significant issue. There's really very little room to fix these problems, either -- the airport is on a limited piece of real estate.


User currently offlineadamh8297 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 870 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 20548 times:

Quoting behramjee (Reply 12):

  

Better for connections to SIN, Africa and the niche destination MLE for us scuba divers as well.


User currently offlinestratacruiser From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 91 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 20091 times:

Quoting bobdino (Reply 8):
Quoting alphaomega (Reply 2):
Handling the various A380 diversions which have frequented BOS are not nearly the same as handling scheduled A380 service, which the airport is very far from being able to do.

Why?

Because diverted passengers often don't disembark and luggage isn't off-loaded. Even if passengers to disembark, they'll tolerate a single jetway exit, whereas they won't be as likely to in regular service.


User currently offlinemusapapaya From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 1086 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 20072 times:

One thing I would like to take the chance and ask, why is EK's total airfare including a smaller proportion of 'fees and taxes' in a typical air ticket? For example, the total costs for a flight from UK to Asia will be similar on EK and LH, however, the base fare will be lower in LH than EK while the 'taxes and fees' are higher in LH, any reason why?


Lufthansa Group of Airlines
User currently offlinealphaomega From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 571 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 19983 times:

Quoting ASA (Reply 10):
Quoting alphaomega (Reply 2):
Handling the various A380 diversions which have frequented BOS are not nearly the same as handling scheduled A380 service, which the airport is very far from being able to do.

I had the same question. Massport is already working on making two gates compatible with the A380. The runway/taxiway width requirements are manageable if I understood correctly from the other thread. Why is Logan "very far from being able to" handle scheduled A380 service? Maybe a year or two ... or do you think more?
Quoting ScottB (Reply 13):
The airport, particularly its terminals, wasn't designed to accommodate aircraft of that size, and parking the aircraft at Terminal E would block an adjacent gate. This is problematic at a terminal which is already full at peak hours. Taxiway spacing is also a significant issue. There's really very little room to fix these problems, either -- the airport is on a limited piece of real estate.
Quoting bobdino (Reply 8):

Quoting alphaomega (Reply 2):
Handling the various A380 diversions which have frequented BOS are not nearly the same as handling scheduled A380 service, which the airport is very far from being able to do.

Why?

Yes, however this is not the only issue. Even with the new terminal extension which will have 2 A380 capable gates, the runway and taxiway infrastructure will need some serious attention prior to scheduled A380 service, and real estate is already at a premium. As it stands right now, you can park an A380 at gate 8A (and you lose 8B) or you can park on Gate 5 and lose 6 and 4 - this is where SQ has parked the past 2 diversions. IF and a big IF an airline wanted to operat an A380, and agreed to operate between 1000-1500, MAYBE it could be worked in, however I don't think anyone wants that early of a departure utilizing an A380 and this would mean escorting the manatee every day, boarding with only 1 jetbridge, etc...can't work.

EK is also not the only one interested in the A380 - AF and LH (and I'm sure BA would follow) would all currently love to operate an A380 to BOS if the capability was there.


User currently offlineusxguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1013 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (5 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 19790 times:

there is going to be a day when Emirates is the largest aircraft operator at most US airports - and I think that Emirates will be flying to a LOT more US destinations. STL, PIT, DEN, LAS, SAN, PDX, ATL, MCO are just a few that WILL open once the smaller aircraft come online. I wouldn't be surprised if EK flies to at least 20 US destinations in 5 years. They have an amazing product (despite the horrid 777 coach seating) and do well at managing their fares and inventory.


xx
User currently offlineASA From Bangladesh, joined Dec 2010, 725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (5 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 18576 times:

Quoting alphaomega (Reply 17):
Yes, however this is not the only issue. Even with the new terminal extension which will have 2 A380 capable gates, the runway and taxiway infrastructure will need some serious attention prior to scheduled A380 service, and real estate is already at a premium. As it stands right now, you can park an A380 at gate 8A (and you lose 8B) or you can park on Gate 5 and lose 6 and 4 - this is where SQ has parked the past 2 diversions. IF and a big IF an airline wanted to operat an A380, and agreed to operate between 1000-1500, MAYBE it could be worked in, however I don't think anyone wants that early of a departure utilizing an A380 and this would mean escorting the manatee every day, boarding with only 1 jetbridge, etc...can't work.

Thanks for explaining! Does look difficult indeed for scheduled A380 service at Terminal E...

Speaking for myself, I am not a fan of the Manatees ... I would rather take double daily 777s!


User currently offlinetexdravid From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1350 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 17760 times:

I'm jealous. DFW started with a 772LR and it has stayed that way for more than a year....no switch to a 77W anytime soon.
What the....



Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
User currently offlineana787 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 266 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 17543 times:

Quoting usxguy (Reply 18):
there is going to be a day when Emirates is the largest aircraft operator at most US airports - and I think that Emirates will be flying to a LOT more US destinations. STL, PIT, DEN, LAS, SAN, PDX, ATL, MCO are just a few that WILL open once the smaller aircraft come online. I wouldn't be surprised if EK flies to at least 20 US destinations in 5 years. They have an amazing product (despite the horrid 777 coach seating) and do well at managing their fares and inventory.

I think all those are possible...except for STL and PIT.

DEN
LAS
SAN
PDX
ATL
PHX
MSP
MCO
MIA


User currently offlinechrisnh From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4092 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (5 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 16965 times:

Quoting texdravid (Reply 20):
I'm jealous. DFW started with a 772LR and it has stayed that way for more than a year....no switch to a 77W anytime soon.
What the....

I wouldn't be jealous of us yet...we're only a day in and the plane today was again a 777-200LR. 

But the CEO is the guy signing the checks and making these big decisions. I guess he knows that being a 'first mover' into Boston (besting Turkish by several months even though Turkish announced first) is going to be HUGE for them.

Qatar seems likely, ETIHAD...who the heck knows. And Saudi, no one even mentions them.

By the way, the captain today (just landed) was as 'American' as yesterday's was. Both sounded as though they were from Albany, New York or something. I guess with all that metal, Emirates needs crews from wherever they can find them.


User currently offlinetlecam From United States of America, joined Jul 2013, 242 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 16841 times:

Quoting alphaomega (Reply 17):
Yes, however this is not the only issue. Even with the new terminal extension which will have 2 A380 capable gates, the runway and taxiway infrastructure will need some serious attention prior to scheduled A380 service, and real estate is already at a premium. As it stands right now, you can park an A380 at gate 8A (and you lose 8B) or you can park on Gate 5 and lose 6 and 4 - this is where SQ has parked the past 2 diversions. IF and a big IF an airline wanted to operat an A380, and agreed to operate between 1000-1500, MAYBE it could be worked in, however I don't think anyone wants that early of a departure utilizing an A380 and this would mean escorting the manatee every day, boarding with only 1 jetbridge, etc...can't work.

EK is also not the only one interested in the A380 - AF and LH (and I'm sure BA would follow) would all currently love to operate an A380 to BOS if the capability was there.

Space is going to continue to be an issue. Physically, the only place to expand is to where the hangars are now. That would have all sorts of challenges, not the least of which is that those hangars presumably have uses, even with the AA and DL shrink over the years. It does not appear that there is room for another "satellite' terminal, a la Delta.

I would venture to guess that Massport is going to have to look to moving some of the alliance departures (Virgin, AF, Alitalia) over to a different terminal. (A for skyteam). However, while A is relatively under-used now, there are gate restrictions out at the satellite too. You can see how oversized the Delta LHR and AMS planes are when parked at the A piers. To say nothing of the boarding area.

On a separate note for the Boston locals - the Callahan finally re-opened yesterday - bless all things holy.



BOS || A:319,320,321, 332, 333, 346 || B:735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 772, 744: L1011, DC10
User currently onlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5379 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (5 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 16739 times:

Quoting usxguy (Reply 18):
there is going to be a day when Emirates is the largest aircraft operator at most US airports - and I think that Emirates will be flying to a LOT more US destinations. STL, PIT, DEN, LAS, SAN, PDX, ATL, MCO are just a few that WILL open once the smaller aircraft come online. I wouldn't be surprised if EK flies to at least 20 US destinations in 5 years.

We'll see. Every DXB-US route is an ultra-long-haul route, with costs to match. I don't think they'll be able to compete with US and Euro carriers' fares out of the smaller destinations.


25 ScottB : And on another note, Hell froze over with a Boston construction project having been completed early. There is some flexibility on that, in that the n
26 airbazar : True but "very limited" is not the same as non-existent. It will happen. in another thread someone posted that Massport has already started working o
27 cessna53996 : Could you post a link to that thread? It's truly amazing the amount of international expansion out of Logan during recent years. Just an idea, but wo
28 stlgph : Small correction - Ahmed bin Saeed Al Maktoum is the ceo and chairman of Emirates Group ... Tim Clark is the President of The Emirates Group. The She
29 flyby519 : That would be great, but i can already hear the NIMBYs screaming
30 Post contains links airbazar : BOS Terminal E Renovation (by iyerhari Mar 4 2014 in Civil Aviation) Nope. If you're refering to FedEx and UPS, those guys fly to/from BOS because of
31 tortugamon : STL, PIT, and PDX are beyond long shots. Add DEN, MIA and LAS. I can see 10 destinations in 5 years but I can't see 20. EK has their aircraft order b
32 nomorerjs : People on this forum said EK at ORD was a pipe dream, now we are seeing STL,PIT, PDX. Why does this forum hate ORD so much?
33 Post contains links and images airbazar : That's all relative BOS will never be fully a Group VI compliant airport because of cost and space constraints. However I expect it to make enough im
34 Post contains links tortugamon : I plugged in some dates and it appears to be $100+ cheaper to buy a ticket to DXB from BOS through B6 then it is through EK itself. Anyone know the re
35 Post contains images Miami : Welcome to the party...
36 Lufthansa : What about remote stands? Yes it's hardly ideal, but in some parts of the world its common for widebody flights. The old hong kong airport it was nor
37 Post contains images laca773 : Does TK do many European transfers to the US? I know it's out of the way for some routes, but I'm sure there are some who do fly via IST. Does it app
38 PITrules : Well they will already be serving 9 when ORD comes online. I can easily see them have 20 US destinations in 5 years. Obviously they will go for the f
39 tortugamon : Alright lets name 11 more cities. I will give you ATL, MCO, MIA, DTW, LAS, and DEN (even though I think a couple of these are a stretch). I have a ha
40 steeler83 : If PIT is ever added, I think it will be among the last. How many people per day travel to DXB or anywhere else in the middle east? Is this traffic e
41 PITrules : I think a lot of people would also have had a hard time with BA doing LHR-AUS the day before they announced it. If there is one thing I have learned
42 Viscount724 : I can't see that ever happening. Most traffic at U.S. airports is domestic which EK can't participate in. And all their international flights have to
43 Post contains images RyanairGuru : EWR is surely a given. I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't their next addition. I'll add SJC. It could give them a real competitive edge to launch SJ
44 tortugamon : Sure but that route can be done with two aircraft and they are 788s. EK will have to dedicate three aircraft and their smallest will be A359s (and I
45 miaintl : How big is the Boston-South Asia market vis-a-vis Miami? I am surprised this flight is doing so well. Who would have known there was such a large Asia
46 Skippy777 : Weird they can't even serve warm food onboard the A380 and they want bigger plains ? They should upgrade the service instead of upgrading plains
47 wingflex744 : That would be just awesome from a MXP perspective, a mini EK hub in Milan sounds like gold after AZ demise...
48 SCQ83 : EK needs 5th freedom flight permissions for each flight operated out of MXP bound to countries other than the UAE. Hard way to build a hub. Also the
49 tortugamon : Not to mention it looks like EY is going to take a part ownership position of Alitalia which will give them a lot of flexibility in Italy. tortugamon
50 Post contains images chrisnh : It's an exaggeration, I know..but still
51 iyerhari : Boston or rather New England has a substantial South Asian or rather Indian population along with other Middle East population to cater to the demand
52 chrisnh : Indeed. Aside from a token effort by Delta (what else would you call it?), none of the usual suspects...AA, UA, US...care a bit about Boston internat
53 Post contains links and images EK413 : Emirates launched its daily, non-stop service between Dubai and Boston yesterday. Boston becomes the airline’s eighth US destination and the 142nd o
54 airbazar : Lots, myself and my family included. any destinationation in Eastern or Central Europe is in play via IST, IMO. When they introduced BOS they were se
55 alphaomega : CBP would never allow a scheduled remote operation in BOS, and balk at the idea even when there is no other option. Using 1 jetbridge for an A380 is
56 iyerhari : Chris, completely agree with your thought process, I once flew US Airways from PHL to MAD and honestly it was my worst international experience. Anyw
57 tlecam : It's substantial - the large technology sector in Boston drives a ton of traffic to and from India. The other huge driver of traffic to/from the ME i
58 airbazar : I personally don't find the terminal and lack of upper deck jet bridge limitations to be an issue simply because EK does not and will not operate an
59 vs11 : This flight is way overdue so it should not be a surprise that it is doing so well. In addition to the education and health care industries, Boston i
60 stratacruiser : How about moving Southwest elsewhere? That would free up gates at the end of the terminal facing Term C. While these are too tight for widebodies, a
61 gemuser : Why? It's done elsewhere, what's special about BOS, that remote stands won't work? Gemuser
62 pa747sp : Taxes are Government imposed fees. They should be the same for any airline operating between the same city pair. 'Fees' are carrier-imposed charges,
63 alphaomega : The 2 jetbridges has nothing to do with the traffic in the terminal, its efficient boarding. With 2 jetbridges on an A380 it already takes 45min to b
64 gemuser : I am pretty sure it is/was done at LAX, so it is possible, just less convenient than at the terminal. Obviously for it to work proper controls would
65 airbazar : Correct but I never suggested using only 1 jetway. I said 2 lower deck jetways. I was comparing a 744 with 1 jetway vs. an A380 with 2 main deck jetw
66 aarbee : At IAD Once you are in the mobile lounge, you are on US soil and won't one be able to claim asylum?
67 jetbluefan1 : I don't think there is anything to this claim, at all. I have deplaned on a remote stand at JFK Terminal 4 twice - once when arriving from CUN, and o
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