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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13  
User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 26
Posted (9 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 80884 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

Due to length part 12 was locked for further contributions. Please feel free to continue your discussion in part 13.

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B777-200ER missing enroute KUL-PEK (by Longhornmaniac Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2 (by LipeGIG Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 3 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 7 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines 772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 8 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 11 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)


*** Out of respect to the crew, passengers and also family members; close to those onboard MH370; could we please keep science fiction theories and content related to possible future movie rights out of these threads? ***

A select few members have been making remarks towards others in the “Missing Malaysia Airlines 777 threads” for speculating about the fate of 9M-MRO, her crew and passengers. Given the fact that there is so much uncertainty going on at this stage, speculation is going to be a factor on this site and also at the biggest and greatest news corporations of the globe. At least until we all have a clearer picture. Is it a perfect situation – certainly not? That being said, we need to stay dynamic in a possible fast-changing situation.

It is not unique to this incident and if we go back in history and trace remarkable aviation events we will see that speculation has been an aspect, essential to some healthy debate. It is not the intention of the moderators to stifle the opinions of members that fall within the rules-and regulations of airliners.net. All that we kindly request from all our members is to stay within the site’s parameters. Please be respectful towards one another and let us all hope for the best possible outcome. Enjoy the forums!


Regards and thanks so much for your co-operation,

SA7700

[Edited 2014-03-11 08:15:12]


When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
254 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineliquidair From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 196 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 80614 times:

zeke alluded to a single engine drift.... what scenario do you envisage could lead to that state with no mayday call being given?

There's also the other side of this... that if they had control of the plane but no comms- surely they would have tried to raise the alarm by mobile phone, flying over the Malaysian peninsula?


User currently offlineDTWPurserBoy From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 1780 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (9 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 80327 times:

To the Moderators: Thank you for bringing some sanity to this discussion. This is a time for serious reflection and sympathy for those affected by this tragedy not idle speculation.


Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
User currently offlineTy134A From Austria, joined Apr 2008, 194 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 80327 times:

did tha plane have some cargo of great value on bord, i.e. "val" gold, money, whatever?


flown on:TU3,TU5,IL8,IL6,ILW,IL9,I14,A40,YK4,YK2,AN4,A26,A28,A81,L11,D1C,M11,AB4,313,342,345,703,722,732,741,74L,J31,F50
User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4225 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (9 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 79658 times:

Any possibility they were attempting to divert to Penang or Langkawi?

Certainly in the case of Penang, it would be an engineering base for MAS, and has a nice long runway.



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlineEnviableOne From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2013, 113 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 79688 times:

Quoting COEWR787 (Reply 254,Thread 12):
The extra surveillance of the Straits of Malacca may also have something to do with dealing with the level of piracy in that area.

AFAIK that area is one of the most high risk for piracy in the world, so I wouldn't be surprised if any radar in the area is optimised for sea-scan rather than aerial detection.

IMHO if MH370 was heading west across the straights of Malacca its probably at the bottom of the Indian ocean by now. As to how it got there, it has to be a combination of factors, as with everything, the simple answers just do not explain everything and we may never know the complete story.

My sympathies to the relatives of the crew and passengers, we live in hope, but I feel time is running out for a positive conclusion.



A wise man speaks because has something to say, a fool speaks because he has to say something - Plato
User currently offlineFinn350 From Finland, joined Jul 2013, 715 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (9 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 79437 times:

Quoting liquidair (Reply 1):
There's also the other side of this... that if they had control of the plane but no comms- surely they would have tried to raise the alarm by mobile phone, flying over the Malaysian peninsula?

That is actually a very good point. Doesn't it basically imply that the passengers or the cabin crew were not aware of any trouble when crossing the Malaysian peninsula? It is actually quite hard to explain the situation, even considering hypoxia or one of the pilots forcefully taking control of the plane.


User currently onlineflyingturtle From Switzerland, joined Oct 2011, 2552 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (9 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 79058 times:

Quoting Ty134A (Reply 3):
did tha plane have some cargo of great value on bord, i.e. "val" gold, money, whatever?

Perhaps the calligraphies painted by the +/- 20 Chinese calligraphists that made an exhibition in KUL, and perished on that flight. I'm not aware of anything else.


David



Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
User currently offline345tas From Israel, joined Mar 2014, 37 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 79045 times:

If I were a relative of a victim I would be absolutely livid at the bizarre signals coming out of the Malaysian authorities. Surely the most wacky thing is that if this military source talking to Reuters knows the plane made it to the Straits - why haven't they pulled everything out of the Gulf of Thailand and committed them to the new search area? Why did they ever start looking in the Gulf in the first place?

User currently onlinethunderboltdrgn From Sweden, joined Jan 2012, 742 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (9 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 79047 times:

(Repost from the previous thread)

Quoting mila (Reply 244):
Swedish media now refers to Reuters the the military have spotted the aircraft in the Malacka channel.


I think this is false and a misinterpretation (as Aftonbladets articles usually are) and that
Aftonbladet takes the last radar contact as a fact that the plane crashed there.

No other media have reported this and Aftonbladet's articles should always be taken with a
large truck load of salt. They'll post (almost) anything to get some clicks.



Like a thunderbolt of lightning the Dragon roars across the sky. Il Drago Ruggente
User currently offlineSEA From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 236 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (9 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 78417 times:

Quoting liquidair (Reply 1):
There's also the other side of this... that if they had control of the plane but no comms- surely they would have tried to raise the alarm by mobile phone, flying over the Malaysian peninsula?

Perhaps that's what they did but without luck?


User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9545 posts, RR: 42
Reply 11, posted (9 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 78438 times:

Quoting EnviableOne (Reply 5):
Quoting COEWR787 (Reply 254,Thread 12):
The extra surveillance of the Straits of Malacca may also have something to do with dealing with the level of piracy in that area.

AFAIK that area is one of the most high risk for piracy in the world, so I wouldn't be surprised if any radar in the area is optimised for sea-scan rather than aerial detection.

To use a well-worn internet phrase: I should have been more specific. I was referring to the days when cross-border military incursions were not unheard of. It was still going on in the late 60s and perhaps the early 70s. Although the activity was mainly on Borneo, relations between the two were strained, to say the least.


User currently offlineoly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 6843 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (9 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 77868 times:

Quoting thunderboltdrgn (Reply 9):
I think this is false and a misinterpretation (as Aftonbladets articles usually are) and that
Aftonbladet takes the last radar contact as a fact that the plane crashed there.

Reuters update is that the aircraft was......

Earlier on Tuesday, Malaysia's Berita Harian newspaper quoted air force chief Rodzali Daud as saying the Malaysia Airlines plane was last detected by military radar at 2:40 a.m. on Saturday, near the island of Pulau Perak at the northern end of the Strait of Malacca. It was flying at a height of about 9,000 metres (29,500 ft), he was quoted as saying.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...nes-military-idUSL3N0M835C20140311



wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
User currently offlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1584 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (9 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 77161 times:

Quoting liquidair (Reply 1):

zeke alluded to a single engine drift.... what scenario do you envisage could lead to that state with no mayday call being given?

I think single engine height would be lower, when the JAL 787 diverted into HNL this week it immediately headed down to 25,000.



BV
User currently offlineklebert From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 9 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 76580 times:

Quoting 345tas (Reply 8):

I absolutely agree.
The Reuters article (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/11/us-malaysiaairlines-flight-idUSBREA2701720140311)... the Malaysian authorities seem either clueless or have a problem with properly communicating what they are doing - same as the comment during their press conference regarding the Italian soccer player yesterday.


User currently offlinePanAmPaul From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 242 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 76582 times:

It seems odd that information is coming out piecemeal and that the Malaysian military was silent on this fact but....

Quote:
Military officials said that flight 370 was last detected by military radar at 2:40 a.m. local time on Saturday, near the island of Pulau Perak at the northern end of the Strait of Malacca. It was flying at an altitude of 29,500 feet....

above from

Military Tracked Malaysia Airlines Jet to Strait of Malacca

.


User currently offlineBuyantUkhaa From Mongolia, joined May 2004, 2915 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (9 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 76568 times:

Quoting oly720man (Reply 12):
Reuters update is that the aircraft was......

"last detected" is not "crashed" necessarily, since Pulau Perak is quite far from Langkawi/Georgetown or wherever this radar station is likely to be located. So they may have simply flown out of the range of that radar. As said before, now it would be very helpful to know if any Indonesian radar at Sumatra caught anything.



I scratch my head, therefore I am.
User currently offlineaircatalonia From Spain, joined Nov 2007, 575 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 75919 times:

I got reminded of the two Iranian fighter jets that lost instrumentation and communications in the vecinity of "a very bright object" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976_Tehran_UFO_incident

User currently offlinehivue From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 1114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (9 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 75961 times:

Quoting 345tas (Reply 8):
If I were a relative of a victim I would be absolutely livid at the bizarre signals coming out of the Malaysian authorities. Surely the most wacky thing is that if this military source talking to Reuters knows the plane made it to the Straits - why haven't they pulled everything out of the Gulf of Thailand and committed them to the new search area? Why did they ever start looking in the Gulf in the first place?

  
All these reports about radar detecting the plane going that way and we have evidence it flew across the Malay peninsula at 29K ft etc. give the families likely false hope that their loved ones are still alive somewhere. The Malay authorities should do what the NTSB does in these circumstances and hold regular press conferences where they carefully provide the public with all the hard factual information they have at the time (or if they have none then say so).


User currently offlineLTC8K6 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (9 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 75920 times:

Well, it took 41 minutes or so to reach IGARI waypoint at around 1:22, including climb to cruise, but then it takes them roughly another hour and 20 minutes to get near Pulau Perak.

Seems like it took longer than it should have.


User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17177 posts, RR: 66
Reply 20, posted (9 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 75900 times:

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 13):

Quoting liquidair (Reply 1):

zeke alluded to a single engine drift.... what scenario do you envisage could lead to that state with no mayday call being given?

I think single engine height would be lower, when the JAL 787 diverted into HNL this week it immediately headed down to 25,000.

Single engine drift-down is not a given value. It depends on the type of aircraft and most particularly on the weight. Methinks zeke looked at an actual table to get his value.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineasetiadi From Indonesia, joined May 2013, 160 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (9 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 75945 times:

So they just ruled out the terrorism part. A suicide plan is very unlikely given the pilot reputation.

If this is an inflight breakup, I am sure they will already find the debris somewhere.

if the plane really did turn back to Kuala Lumpur or going somewhere else, I am sure the pilot will call a Mayday.

This is very puzzling!


User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11571 posts, RR: 52
Reply 22, posted (9 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 74996 times:

THEORY:

what if what happened was there was an electrical short or fire on the same bus as the ADS-B system? Pilots attempting to extinguish the source of the fire turned off the ADS-B and turned the plane back. That could explain why the plane (possibly) never entered Vietnamese airspace, and why it could actually even be on the other side of the Malaysian peninsula. It doesn't explain the lack of radar signatures though.



Send me a PM at http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/sendmessage.main?from_username=NULL
User currently offlinevfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 4062 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (9 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 74959 times:

Quoting asetiadi (Reply 21):
A suicide plan is very unlikely given the pilot reputation

How about the Royal Air Maroc, Egypt Air and LAM pilots who committed suicide by crashing their planes ? Were they known madmen or had a "bad reputation"? If somebody has not suffered from known mental illnesses for a long time (and pilots surely would be grounded in such a case), suicides often happen as a complete surprise to those knowing the person.

PS: Recounting those cases, quite chilling that suicide of pilots by crashing a passenger airliner has already happened a couple of times.

[Edited 2014-03-11 07:22:18]

User currently onlineflyingturtle From Switzerland, joined Oct 2011, 2552 posts, RR: 14
Reply 24, posted (9 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 74112 times:

Hopefully this isn't a case of spatial confusion, like in the Invicta International Airlines flight 435 that crashed years and years ago just a few kilometers from me:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...mons/e/e6/Basel-435-Flugunfall.jpg   


David



Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
25 garpd : So, what he have now is a statement from the authorities that indicates a radar return travelling from this flights last known position, over Malaysia
26 SKAirbus : I guess if there is no trace of the aircraft in the middle of one of the busiest shipping channels in the world, it could have drifted out into the In
27 FlashA350 : Hi All, I’m new to this forum. I have a question, what will happen if the cockpit windows break explosively? Can it also destroy the electronics?
28 flyenthu : If the plane changed course, would it not show on the flight path map on the plane?
29 garpd : Not if the correct nav systems were turned off.[Edited 2014-03-11 07:39:16]
30 hivue : These sorts of events almost never have simple explanations.
31 liquidair : and not only the passengers- i'd assume the pilots would have tried if they flew for near one and a half hours in the opposite direction. could be, s
32 E195 : I know its been asked about dangerous cargo, but what about VALUABLE cargo? IE Gold Bars / Bank Notes The captain / co pilot may have know about it, a
33 Post contains links and images oly720man : No, but the chances of a cockpit window breaking like that are next to zero. They are very thick and multilayered. The worst that happens is that one
34 David L : The fact that they initially said there was evidence it "may" have turned back so expanded the search to include the Malacca Strait then said they wer
35 uta999 : If the crew and passengers were in a hypoxia state. The aircraft would carry on flying on the last heading until the fuel ran out, unless it was in a
36 Flaps : It all looks pretty intentional to me. Im not about to speculate on who or how but I would certainly like to get a glimpse of what was in the hold. No
37 Post contains images 777Jet : I flew on 9M-MRG in June 2011. There were cards in each seat (see image below) mentioning this new technology that was just installed on this MH 777 o
38 345tas : Has the military said in what direction they were heading when the plane was seen on radar near Pulau Perak? In the scenario of all onboard incapacita
39 Owleye : When an airliner suddenly changes route isn't it the task of the air force to scramble and to intercept the plane to check what is happening?
40 blueheronNC : At this point, I'd be checking with the Maldives to see if they picked up any radar signals...
41 acelanzarote : On the basis that nothing with this flight disappearing and being found seems straight forward, how long before China who had alot of their citizens o
42 oly720man : Or Diego Garcia, which is also in that neck of the woods, and maybe has better radars than the Maldives may have. Yes, but that was poor maintenance
43 rcair1 : Frankly - this is getting very strange. If the aircraft was actually detected (tracked?) to the strait of Malacca at 29500 flying with no transponder
44 theaviator380 : I would assume yes, it depends on procedure of the country if I am not wrong. The moment it vanished off the radar, Air force could have called in ac
45 PlaneInsomniac : Who ruled out what? As far as I understand, all they said was that a link between the two stolen passport holders and terrorism was unlikely, because
46 Post contains links michi : There is an update on avherald again: http://www.avherald.com/h?article=4710c69b&opt=0 The editorial note is interesting. Maybe MH370 descended to
47 mandala499 : The pilot had a good reputation... now how about the co-pilot? Son of a bigwig in government, and seems to have a history of breaking the rules. Coul
48 blueheronNC : Exactly. This has just made the haystack a whole lot larger to find that needle. But everything is still on a table, including a "failed" hijacking u
49 CF-CPI : This is an interesting idea, but with Invicta, the First Officer was of marginal competence (spotty work history), and there are some lingering quest
50 questions : He was 27 with less than 3000 hours.
51 aftgaffe : Two thoughts to add to the mix. Hypoxia alone would not explain the loss of the transponder and ACARS but maybe a fire or electrical issue could both
52 hivue : Right. But if they have no good information they should be unambiguously saying so. The issue isn't with keeping the general public happy. It's with
53 LTC8K6 : And new to the 777.
54 zeke : I did not look any value up, a heavy 772 will drift down to around FL180, a light one to FL320. I do not know the weight at the time, so I cannot pro
55 michi : I forgot to add, that a misunderstanding or a bad translation might have been at work when translating the military spokesperson. So flying at 3000ft
56 Post contains links neutrino : The hunt for flight MH370 Day 4 update: TUESDAY, MARCH 11 -- Chinese state media report that Beijing is deploying as many as 10 satellites in the hope
57 klebert : Could you please source the information on the co-pilot? I have not read that anywhere.
58 zeke : No need, you would hit terrain at 3000'.
59 LTC8K6 : They just lost it from radar. Might have just gone out of range of the station. If they saw it go down on the military radar, the search area would n
60 Post contains links richierich : Interesting - (and I apologize if this was discussed in the previous 3000+ posts, I didnt read all of them!) - the FO was mentioned on CNN last night
61 345tas : I hope this question won't betray my total lack of knowledge of cockpit hardware, but according to FR24 playback, a number of flights would have been
62 Post contains links and images ASA : great summary of the situation ... once again ... this has Flight 714 written all over it! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_714
63 Post contains images EI747SYDNEY : Well said!!
64 liquidair : I couldn't agree more... but this situation is getting incredibly difficult to decipher.... and that would lead to this sort of speculation. Is it th
65 texl1649 : Hypoxia makes very little sense. There's no history of such an incident in 777 commercial service to date and all kinds of warnings/illogical to expec
66 Post contains links loladaisydukes : Something like this? http://www.standard.co.uk/news/world...ed-on-previous-flight-9183812.html
67 virgin744 : that was shocking!!!!!!!
68 vnangia : Nicobar also has an Indian naval installation with OTH radar. Further out, Sri Lanka has excellent radar, Diego Garcia has OTH radar. Anything furthe
69 lnglive1011yyz : That's assuming that everyone is watching and paying attention to what is going on - and, you don't just scramble military jets so willy-nilly. Keep
70 drmlnr1 : This is a very intriguing and strange case. My fiancé thinks if they had landed, that all passengers would have contacted their loved ones by now
71 LTC8K6 : If they flew low over Malaysia I'd expect some cell communications to have gotten through...
72 Post contains images michi : Thanks, I was faster than you See my reply 55.
73 klebert : Thank you. Not sure the information in the article helps much but yes, in general I would like to know more about the pilots as I am still convinced
74 slinky09 : Perhaps (and since there's nothing to back this up, so another amount of speculation) an unidentified passenger jet, with zero comms, headed into a r
75 FlyAAS80 : That is a very troubling story, and speaks to a dangerous (lack of) safety and security culture. I highly doubt this was a one-time occurrence.
76 Post contains links and images mandala499 : So just transitioned from the 737, and most likely the 737-400 not the -800. I was already in contact with several of the MH 777 crew that morning to
77 michi : - GSM coverage and range might be a factor. - No cell towers in the middle of malaysia? - Only small coastal strips with coverage. - Fast flying plan
78 DeltaMD90 : Already explained. This happens everyday due to many factors. There is a protocol that is followed
79 theaviator380 : Absolutely correct, that's very strange and worrying. That's where I think Malaysian authority is not telling everything they know about this inciden
80 shamrock604 : You really think this doesnt happen at the best of airlines? - Remember, there was a time when flight deck access was not as restricted, so I'm not s
81 Voodoo : Hmmm we're talking about a government that applies sodomy charges to the leader of the Opposition whenever it suits it (and did so again this very we
82 michi : Maybe the aircraft climbed again? Kind of terrain following in order to avoid primary radar detection? It didn't work, but I took the military quite
83 345tas : Thanks! Looking at Google Maps, there's a sort of ring of islands that stretch from northern Sumatra to the coast of Thailand. One would assume that
84 UA787DEN : At this point I don't feel 777 service history has any impact on this crash. Something aboard a 777 obviously went wrong - but nobody knows what and
85 mpsrent : If the Malaysian's tracked the aircraft to Pulau Perak, it begs asking what if anything the Indonesians saw. Polonia airport is south of this path.
86 SKAirbus : If this is the case, I think the European Union should immediately blacklist Malaysia Airlines until its standards are brought up to scratch. Of cour
87 lnglive1011yyz : So is 2 hours a sufficient amount of time to wait to announce to other aviators and boats in the area when trying to determine the location of a miss
88 timothy31388 : This sort of thing happens in many airlines. The only reason why people don't report it is because no accidents or incidents have taken place.
89 Post contains links FlyAAS80 : Yes, I really do believe that this doesn't happen at the best of airlines. Call it a case of extreme ignorance, or whatever you like, this is not ok.
90 CF-CPI : Historically, there have been ATC frequencies as well as 'company' frequencies, the latter of which is designed to allow the cockpit to contact compa
91 DTW2HYD : Well said. It appears everyone has very high expectation of Malaysian defense force capabilities. If I recall correctly 15+ years back they used to r
92 shamrock604 : I'm sorry, but that's way over the top. I'm pretty sure MAS has procedures for flight deck access, and no one can enforce their application 100% of t
93 klebert : While I do not think the article rises to that level of scrutiny, or smoking or having passengers in the cockpit does... wasn't Malaysia, its airline
94 FlyAAS80 : How easy we forget, but these events have caused the loss of life (Aeroflot 593). I always believed that one of the cornerstones of aviation safety i
95 pvjin : I bet plenty of EU based airlines are way worse. Besides, I don't see any problem with inviting a couple of blondes to the cockpit. There's a big dif
96 LTC8K6 : If this was a hijack, then the hijacker has knowledge to turn off the transponder. Does he also have knowledge to turn off the recorders?
97 uta999 : Could one of the crew have left the flight deck and the remaining pilot put on his Oxygen mask. Only it was faulty. This leads to him blacking out, bu
98 timothy31388 : MH was never blacklisted by the EU since it's inception in the 1970s. Nor was Malaysia itself.
99 dc9northwest : 100% accurate... It does. I also don't think that paranoia is the answer. This likely has nothing to do with this incident. This is the most puzzling
100 FltAdmiralRitt : With the facts so far regarding the flight path and changes in altitude I think we can rule out some things and include some. Not Hypoxya disabling th
101 michi : Why should a hijacker switch of the recorders? There is no need to do so.
102 aw70 : IMHO, there is something that makes a deliberate action on the part of one of the flight crew somewhat less likely. And I haven’t seen that aspect m
103 LTC8K6 : Can anyone estimate how long it should take to fly from IGARI to Pulau Perak?
104 LTC8K6 : I think that depends on the intent of the hijackers.
105 Post contains links jcxroberts : The AD from 9/26 explains this accident perfectly. "This proposed AD was prompted by a report of cracking in the fuselage skin underneath the satellit
106 klebert : Flight 593 is exactly what I was thinking, too when I read that article - as unlikely as that may have anything to do with this situation. But the mo
107 washingtonflyer : I thought most aircraft had something akin to ARINC which allowed the flight attendant to contact dispatch centers or some other center in case of eme
108 asetiadi : so the co-pilot was the one who fly the plane? or the captain? Do we know about this? do you guys remember re: payne stewart case? what if the plane
109 klebert : Thank you.
110 michi : The officials should start looking at the logs, I suggest. Shades down, because the flight was flying towards sunrise?
111 shamrock604 : No, the event that caused the loss of life on Aeroflot 593 was allowing a child to take the controls of the aircraft. If flight deck visits are such
112 pvjin : Was it? I thought it stayed around 30 000ft all the time.
113 asetiadi : so the co-pilot was the one who fly the plane? or the captain? Do we know about this? do you guys remember re: payne stewart case? what if the plane
114 liquidair : unless, of course, the person locked out was told to shut up or else- I'm pretty sure that under threat the other person would obey. you don't risk 2
115 YLWbased : What if, just a BIG if, this is Helios 522 happening all over again. The pilots sensed something was wrong, decided to lower attitude and turn back to
116 aw70 : What are the chances of everyone leaving the shades down once the captain shows up in the passenger compartment, announcing that the co-pilot has gon
117 E195 : Random question, do we know if there was heavy crew in the cockpit or other company staff? E195
118 vfw614 : If you are refering to that cockpit incident with the two blondes, how likely is it that a lowly, then 25 year-old FO was calling the shots and not t
119 jcxroberts : Was it? I thought it stayed around 30 000ft all the time. Plenty of eye witness reports of it flying low over land. Also explains patchy radar. They w
120 hivue : We know that the AF447 crew were unsuccessful handling at high altitude the fallout from a relatively minor malfunction (pitot icing and a brief loss
121 LTC8K6 : Would the pax not notice the descent and turn? If you regularly fly the route would you notice this 40 minutes into the flight? Supposedly the descent
122 TreeHillRavens : Offcial statement from Malaysia Airlines Tuesday, March 11, 11:30 PM MYT +0800 Malaysia Airlines MH370 Flight Incident - 13th Media Statement Malaysia
123 aw70 : I was thinking along the same lines. But, like you, I felt this was pure Hollywood. However, you do have a point. The person taking over the a/c woul
124 pvjin : Or maybe they just set a heading towards land & after they got incapacitated the plane just kept flying to that direction, until it ran out of fu
125 Viper911 : Except 9M-MRO didn't have an external SATCOM antenna mentioned in the AD.
126 E195 : Suggested the Hellas link a few topics ago. Personally i think its a plausible reason, only they turned opposite direction to the way they thought an
127 YLWbased : what if it was a real emergency like the one I suggested in reply 117? YLWbased
128 shamrock604 : According to the manifest on Malaysian's website, there was just two flight deck crew and ten cabin crew on board.
129 michi : Close to none, I guess. It might be remotely possible, that the crew was still in the cockpit, but not alone? Someone managed to enter the forbidden
130 Post contains images JimJupiter : I am confused as well. The quotes of the military spokesman are slightly different in the news reports, and something might get lost in translation b
131 FlyAAS80 : Not trying to get into an argument but all dramatics aside, keeping non-flight crew out of the cockpit during inflight operations is a good step. I t
132 E195 : any staff Standby pax who could have been allowed in flight deck after doors closed do we know? e195
133 jcxroberts : Once you exclude kidnapping, it looks like the pilot knew what he was doing and there was some major problem with the plane. Communications were knock
134 Voodoo : Do f/a s (or the flight deck crew for that matter) have access to portable oxygen?
135 flyingturtle : We don't know how steep! AF447 literally fell from heaven (in an aerodynamically stable position, although), while everybody assumed otherwise! The a
136 shamrock604 : Which is all i'm doing..... I am allowed to disagree with you, after all. I simply do not agree that allowing a flight deck visit indicates a lack of
137 LTC8K6 : Then the pax are surely going to try to send a text, and if the phone ever connects with a tower, the text will be sent. So the event would have to a
138 Post contains links E195 : This AD? http://sellur.mobi/1cItFaR
139 YLWbased : If it is Helios 522 all over again, than yes, the entire plane got incapacitated. YLWbased
140 CXfirst : I was talking to an engineer a couple days ago, who used to work with MH (having worked at both SQ and QF). He said that he left that place due to sh
141 LTC8K6 : How would we know if any passengers on 447 raised an alarm? Wouldn't the F/A just quiet them down? It's likely that most were asleep, whereas MH370 w
142 shamrock604 : I havent seen any mentioned thus far. The manifest only shows names of pax, age and nationality - it doesnt indicate if any were employed by MAS or a
143 flyenthu : What allegations against the copilot? Is this something new?
144 Voodoo : Wasn't the 'steep descent report' based on the initial FR24 type data? A lot of posts here still talk about 'low altitude'.... Is it not now establish
145 SKAirbus : Yes, they were probably in the middle of a drinks servce and had not even started with the meals yet....
146 David L : That's what I thought, that they had reduced altitude by 3000ft not to 3000ft. It wouldn't explain the loss of the transponder.
147 Post contains links OV735 : If the crew really smelled a rat with the pressurization, I imagine the first thing they would do is put on oxygen, and only then start to descent, t
148 Post contains images flyingturtle : The pilots get oxygen from compressed oxygen flasks in an emergency, while the passengers get emergency oxygen from chemical oxygen generators. (Inci
149 michi : Not necessarily - translation might have been faulty. See reply 46,55 and avherald.
150 socalgeo : My rough calculations are that by the time they were over Pulau Perak Island they had traveled roughly 600 miles. Doesnt this leave roughly 2000 mile
151 E195 : Could the crew have tried to squak an emergency but inadvertently turned off the transponder if they were drifting in and out of consciousness? Is it
152 Post contains links flyenthu : No idea what the implications might be for MH 370, but check this out. It is all alleged and speculative though. Just putting it out there and not try
153 LTC8K6 : That was gradual, though, and there was quite a bit of communication.
154 Mark2fly1034 : oxygen mask should be tested before flight. also in the US two people are required to be in cockpit at same time could be an FA.
155 aw70 : I beg to disagree on this one. If you look at the timeline of the Helios crash, the crew had lots of time to act before they were incapacitated. So i
156 garpd : Folks, if the crew and pax were all incapacitated the transponder, ACARS, etc would all still be working and transmitting the location, speed, directi
157 marosbts : Correct me if wrong - but I do believe that the oxygen masks in the cabin fall down automatically. The mechanism is not triggered from the cockpit. S
158 ChaosTheory : Take my numbers with a pinch of salt as we has GE-90 equipped 772s. Assuming a weight around 220t, they should manage to hold FL200.
159 Post contains images JimJupiter : You're not the first, maybe not even top 5.
160 michi : This thread is going on so fast. Is anybody reading this thread actually? There are at least 10 contributions in the last 100 post that are doubling q
161 David L : I suspect so. Some people have talked about "Chinese radar" reporting the step descent when in reality there was a Chinese report that radar showed a
162 mandala499 : Ever flown with a big wig son of whoever important on the right in an Asian airline? He doesn't call the shots, he "persuades" the left seat to accom
163 vfw614 : Has the search in Vietnamese waters been called off now? If they are sure the aircraft made it to the Malacca Strait, it is quite pointless to continu
164 michi : Nicely put! Unfortunately a lot is lost during translation and makes it worse. Sometimes only minor errors have big consequences.
165 Post contains links indcwby : http://naturalguru.co/six-important-...lost-malaysia-airlines-flight-370/ Interesting read in that their conclusion is that it 'vanished'. "The inesca
166 markalot : One thing that makes sense to me is an attempted hijacking, someone turning off the transponder on purpose, and redirecting the plane to a new locatio
167 OV735 : That was my point, too. I doubt some sort of a depressurization/hypoxia scenario took place. Yes, you are correct. The PAX masks would indeed drop au
168 Post contains links huxrules : I think this is what the MH press release was all about: http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/...ers-cockpit-fun-with-missing-pilot Interesting. Also I
169 TreeHillRavens : Please refer to reply #155 By the way, can anyone please provide a link that says the FO is the son of a bigwig in Malaysia ?[Edited 2014-03-11 09:53
170 YLWbased : Why do we have to stop? What evidence do you have on the table to rule this out? answer is you don't, none of us do until hard evidence surface. As f
171 airlineecon : If the plane drifted into the Andaman Sea, it's plausible that it approached or crossed the Burmese coast. This is certainly a multinational investiga
172 theaviator380 : Very interesting point you made, never thought about 'company frequency'. I am following thread since day 1 and if I am not wrong no one mentioned ye
173 TreeHillRavens : Yes. A B737. Video taken in 2011 on a HKT-KUL flight.[Edited 2014-03-11 09:54:18]
174 Centre : a lot of opinions and hardly any fact...And tons of comments that are insensible to the crew, pax and their families. I hope they find it soon enough
175 drmlnr1 : After this accident, in my opinion that all new-build aircraft will be fitted with some sort of GPS device and a way to send live data back to mainten
176 garpd : The evidence we have is consistent with such a theory. In that perhaps the transponder and ACARS were shut off intentionally. It is likely they shut
177 YLWbased : Maybe I've been watching waaaaay too much ACI, but accident don't just happen and there is always a chain of events that associates to it. There were
178 flyingturtle : Can cabin altitude be set manually, for example 35'000 ft instead of the normal 7200-ish ft? Could you dial a cabin altitude setting so that PAX mask
179 flyenthu : Some are noting repetition of information and are not favorable to it. My argument in a prolific thread like this and fast developing story like this
180 vfw614 : He is the son of the deputy director of the public works department of the state of Selangor, Mr. Abdul Hamid Mad Daud.[Edited 2014-03-11 10:00:10][E
181 art : What is actually known about this flight? By definition there must be a last known position. Is there hard evidence that the aircraft altered its head
182 Post contains links YLWbased : An interesting table regarding "Time of useful consciousness" when flying: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_of_useful_consciousness contributed by my
183 hivue : Why would that work better than a transponder and ADS-B? Why would that work better than ACARS?
184 nm2582 : The last known ADS-B / transponder data is ~ 40 minutes into the flight, along the flight plan path, everything appearing normal. The aircraft was mi
185 David L : That would be equivalent to flying at 35,000 ft unpressurised so I hope they would deploy! I don't know but I'm pretty sure the masks will deploy dep
186 Gonzalo : Maybe that has something to do with him being part of the flight crew filmed not long ago in special program of CNN with Richard Quest ? Or maybe not
187 Post contains links EMA747 : http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/...ers-cockpit-fun-with-missing-pilot That article just reeks of attention seeking and I'd bet most of it is untru
188 evomutant : Indeed, two entirely innocuous pictures and a whole slew of completely unverifiable claims against someone who is conveniently unable to defend himse
189 Unflug : Count me in there. But this is not a fast developing story. It is a non-developing story. How much new information do we actually have since thread #
190 YLWbased : Did Indonesian govt made any statement as to Malaysia's military claims that MH370 changed course and flown into their air space? YLWbased
191 Flighty : But would a suicidal person deviate course this way? Did they deviate course? Given how redundant radios are, an electrical fire killing all comms in
192 Post contains links SOBHI51 : Just came on CNN Malaysian Air Force traces last location of Flight 370 to Pulau Perak, a tiny island in Strait of Malacca, official says. http://edit
193 YLWbased : This was on my local news in Hong Kong at around 10pm (3hr30mins ago), hence my wild guess of the plane is somewhere near Eastern Africa deep into th
194 theaviator380 : Felt so upset, I just went on flight radar wanted to see activities near co-ordinates from where MS370 was disappeared, guess what, just saw today's M
195 Post contains images timothy31388 : This Friday, it will be MH318/319.
196 Post contains links boacvc10 : I'm trying to help increase the chances someone may locate the aircraft by doing their supplemental investigation (ala Mandala499's yeomans work in ye
197 Post contains images socalgeo : 2000 mile buffer around Pulau Perak: Link to a map app:http://sandbox.maps.arcgis.com/apps/OnePane/basicviewer/index.html?appid=95cbede59b3e471eb14b5
198 TreeHillRavens : Thank you. OFFICIAL STATEMENT BY CHIEF OF ROYAL MALAYSIAN AIR FORCE ON BERITA HARIAN NEWS ARTICLE DATED 11th MARCH 2014 ON SEARCH AND RESCUE OPERATIO
199 pvjin : I don't think that includes reserves though.
200 Navigator : There was more probably an electrical malfunction. I think they had a major mechanical problem resulting in a complete electrical failure. Most proba
201 456 : I would say, as a guess: follow the heading from the point they turned around to pulau perak with a sar on a certain altitude and fly on that heading
202 vfw614 : Alright. That means back to square one. It could still be anywhere.
203 garpd : It's just as likely as your hypothesis. Your theory does not account for the lack of any wreckage or any sign of the aircraft. Even without electrica
204 flyenthu : CNN reporting right now with confidence that the plane turned around when it went off radar between Malaysia and Vietnam, BUT flew for another hour to
205 socalgeo : Any thoughts on what distance I should use for the buffer? Anyone care to make an estimate of the potential range after flying 600 or so miles? SoCal
206 KDTWflyer : One thing that is interesting is that if it did go down in the Straits of Malacca there is so much shipping traffic in that area that I would not be s
207 slinky09 : Is this for real? And I see CNN has taken down the page linked to already! Since I am not there in person I have to trust the media (I know, I know b
208 CyberEntomology : If the plane crossed the Malaysian peninsula and got over the straits of Malacca, It's a fairly straight shot over the Indian Ocean far from anyone's
209 n471wn : This is simply sobering and now creates a whole new list of plausible scenarios
210 4tet : Hi fellow A.netters! I know this is pure speculation and fantasy, but what if the plane is landed in some remote strip (maybe assuming that the pilots
211 LTC8K6 : So we are back to IGARI as the last known position then?
212 pvjin : Direct flight distance from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing seems to be around 2700 miles... So I guess it could be 2000 miles + one hour reserves? Maybe aro
213 Post contains links SSTeve : For those wondering about the weather on the night of the flight, especially in regards to visibility: http://cliffmass.blogspot.com/2014/0...r-of-mal
214 Navigator : From all I read here this plane could have ended up basically anywhere in the region. With a complete electrical break down and a possible mechanical
215 kevinkevin : Sky News reported that the 772 that operated the MH370 flight was tracked all the way to Pulau Perak on the Malacca Strait from the east coast of the
216 Post contains links Finn350 : CNN has the following news: http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/11/wo...irlines-plane/index.html?hpt=hp_t1 This appears to be a different source. However,
217 Navigator : Who says it was controllable... You ever heard of the JAL 747 accident when the plane lost its tail? And who says there is no wreckage just because i
218 trnswrld : WOW, this is getting very interesting. As mentioned above, news is reporting its official the aircraft flew to the original point over water where con
219 Speedbird128 : As far as civilian systems are concerned - that was the last observed position. However, the Malaysian military obviously have an advanced tracking s
220 Post contains images Mikey711MN : Looks like he's trying to put the genie back in the bottle. Then why so disproportionately focus one's SAR efforts to the west? What would be so sens
221 Post contains links klebert : Correct. The NYT article goes into the different Malaysian statements as well, also quotes FlightGlobal: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/12/world/asia
222 ADent : This plane is fitted with one and most planes will need them. For example in the USA you will have to have ADS-B by 2020, except for some small plane
223 DTW2HYD : How long a 777 can glide on RAT? KIt Darby on CNN said it can fly for an hour on backup power(I am guessing he meant RAT). He also thinks it flew(glid
224 David L : It would seem so. Back to the last position confirmed by official sources rather than a news organization, i.e there is evidence they may have turned
225 Post contains images flyingturtle : You're reading too much Tom Clancy novels. If this really is so, there will be huge political/diplomatic repercussions between Iran and China. Kidnap
226 hivue : Looks like he's trying to undo bad journalism (which is just as difficult a task).
227 max550 : That's true of most accidents covered in these forums, the only difference being that there's been absolutely no new info on this accident. If you're
228 jasondn : I don't know how to do playback on LiveATC, but has anyone heard if the controller WMKB (Penang) Radar was calling the (presumably) unidentified aircr
229 huxrules : What an incredible report. I'm having a hard time believing it.
230 FltAdmiralRitt : What a herculean task it is going to be to find this plane if did indeed keep flying toward the Indian subcontinent. I read that as a search area of s
231 Navigator : If someone turned off the transponder etc and continued flying (or forced the pilots to continue flying), Chances are the plane will never be found.
232 mila : Everything on radar in a ATC is taped/or on disk in case of things like this
233 nm2582 : For someone familiar with the particulars of Malaysian airspace in the area where the transponder data was initially lost... Given the reports that th
234 jasondn : I appreciate that. I was wondering if we (as public) could hear the recordings of that morning on LiveATC seeing as that specific Radar Station broad
235 slinky09 : I wondered similiarly. For example if you cross the Atlantic (I just know I'll have reversed this) West to East then flight levels are odd numbers, a
236 TreeHillRavens : Yes The DCA Chief said five passengers bag were offloaded on Sunday. However, it was denied by the IGP yesterday afternoon. DCA = Department of Civil
237 desh : Wow - that piece of new definitely changes the seach area. Is there a way for the us to find out whether the pilots took on addtional fuel ? i.e. more
238 anstar : I smell a cover up somewhere... So lets say the plane did turn around and the transponder was off - presumably the last record on military radar is in
239 antskip : Half the world is focused for days on finding a missing Malaysian airliner and now that country's military say they know it went the other way? Spare
240 CyberEntomology : Hey, Clancy pretty much nailed it on the current mess in the Ukraine on his final novel. It was uncanny. Where this particular scenario gets frighten
241 EVAAIRBR076 : why do they suddenly after 3 days they start to search in the strait of malaca? yes i know because of the militairy radar, but they must have know ear
242 Post contains images EMA747 : If it's gone any further West than the search field then it's going to have ended up in some seriously deep water. 2000m +
243 CyberEntomology : For what it's worth, it's about 4000 miles to Iran from Malaysia, avoiding radar. With a fairly full fuel load, that's not even remotely difficult.
244 CrimsonNL : This just gets more mysterious by the hour.. Maybe Air Koryo will suddenly start flying a 777 in a few weeks? On a more serious note, does the 777, or
245 RJAF : Why did it take four days for the Malaysian Air Force to say what they are saying now?
246 ushermittwoch : You should start writing novels.
247 markalot : I don't know about that. You have numerous (or just one?) radar installations and an unidentified blip on each one either moving across the peninsula
248 FoxBravo : What I would like to know is whether Indonesian radar picked up anything as the aircraft flew towards Sumatra. I'm sure this is being investigated, bu
249 LTC8K6 : They apparently looked on land and in the Malacca straits because of the heading the plane was last in when it left radar at IGARI. There is apparentl
250 vnangia : I wasn't going to dignify the insanity with a response, but since ushermittwoch already did, there's also the minor matter that a straight line would
251 giopan1975 : I have exactly the same question.
252 garpd : I posted that as a theory in thread 11 or 12. If that radar return really was the missing 777, I'm willing to bet it was intentionally flown that way
253 anstar : Because it is a leak from the military - NOT a public announcement from the military. Which is making me think its been shot down by Indonesia as it
254 Post contains links SA7700 : Due to length this thread will locked for further contributions. All posts added after the thread lock will be removed for housekeeping purposes only.
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