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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14  
User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 26
Posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 107856 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

Due to length part 13 was locked for further contributions. Please feel free to continue your discussion in part 14.

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B777-200ER missing enroute KUL-PEK (by Longhornmaniac Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2 (by LipeGIG Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 3 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 7 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines 772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 8 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 11 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13 (by SA7700 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)


*** Out of respect to the crew, passengers and also family members; close to those onboard MH370; could we please keep science fiction theories and content related to possible future movie rights out of these threads? ***

A select few members have been making remarks towards others in the “Missing Malaysia Airlines 777 threads” for speculating about the fate of 9M-MRO, her crew and passengers. Given the fact that there is so much uncertainty going on at this stage, speculation is going to be a factor on this site and also at the biggest and greatest news corporations of the globe. At least until we all have a clearer picture. Is it a perfect situation – certainly not? That being said, we need to stay dynamic in a possible fast-changing situation.

It is not unique to this incident and if we go back in history and trace remarkable aviation events we will see that speculation has been an aspect, essential to some healthy debate. It is not the intention of the moderators to stifle the opinions of members that fall within the rules-and regulations of airliners.net. All that we kindly request from all our members is to stay within the site’s parameters. Please be respectful towards one another and let us all hope for the best possible outcome. Enjoy the forums!


Regards and thanks so much for your co-operation,

SA7700


When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
408 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinepvjin From Finland, joined Mar 2012, 1254 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 108031 times:

Quoting anstar (Reply 253):
Which is making me think its been shot down by Indonesia as it entered thier airspace unidentified and its all being covered up.

I don't think Indonesia is that trigger happy. Besides, that doesn't explain why the aircraft started to fly at completely opposite direction from what it was supposed to do. The normal route wouldn't take them anywhere near Indonesia.



"A rational army would run away"
User currently offlinekevinkevin From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2013, 117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 107745 times:

If the military tracked the aircraft at Pulau Perak at 3000ft, wouldn't they be able to track it's final position?

User currently offlineanstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5195 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 107479 times:

Quoting pvjin (Reply 1):
The normal route wouldn't take them anywhere near Indonesia.

Which would make it even more obvious it is something like a hijacked plane coming into your territory.

Whatever the fate of the aircraft, pax and crew - I do believe the governement are not sharing all the info they know in a bid to cover something up.


User currently offlineTobias2702 From Germany, joined Sep 2008, 720 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 107507 times:

Quoting pvjin (Reply 1):
Besides, that doesn't explain why the aircraft started to fly at completely opposite direction from what it was supposed to do. The normal route wouldn't take them anywhere near Indonesia.

Could someone please clarify this? Having just skimmed through the previous thread, I was under the impression that today's news about MS 370 having turned round (as allegedly proven by radar signals) has turned out to be an unconfirmed rumor lacking any official confirmation?



PA, AF, UK, BA, AB, DL, LH, FR, BD, A3, EZY, DY //// A319/320/346, B733/735/73G/738/744/763, AT4, 146, CR2, DH4
User currently offline345tas From Israel, joined Mar 2014, 37 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 107244 times:

Quoting hivue (Reply 226):
Looks like he's trying to undo bad journalism (which is just as difficult a task).

If you read that press release from the head of the Malaysian Air Force, he is only denying that HE said the plane was last tracked at Pulau Perak. He did not in any way deny the veracity of those claims, which are being made to CNN and Reuters by other Malaysian air force officials. If it wasn't true full stop, presumably he would have said so.

It is not bad journalism, they are simply reporting what military sources in Malaysia are telling them off the record. Or, to quote Francis Urquart (the original Frank Underwood): "you might very well think that. I couldn't possibly comment."

[Edited 2014-03-11 12:00:45]

[Edited 2014-03-11 12:01:19]

[Edited 2014-03-11 12:10:03]

User currently offlineMikey711MN From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1397 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 107205 times:

If MH 370 was at ~30k feet heading west/southwest in the Strait, I wonder if any northwest heading traffic, e.g. SIN departures to Europe, was able to make a visual...?

Of course, the officials are busy walking back the assertion that the craft made the turn in the first place, so I doubt any info is forthcoming on heading and airspeed data from the previously reported last location.

-Mike



I plan on living forever. So far, so good...
User currently offlinethunderboltdrgn From Sweden, joined Jan 2012, 600 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 107215 times:

Quoting pvjin (Reply 1):
I don't think Indonesia is that trigger happy. Besides, that doesn't explain why the aircraft started to fly at completely opposite direction from what it was supposed to do. The normal route wouldn't take them anywhere near Indonesia

I agree and regarding Anstar's theory about India/Pakistan, I doubt that the plane had so much fuel
that it could reach Pakistan, especially not if they had descended to 29500 feet.
Pakistan is almost 5 hours of flying from the point where they disappeared.



Like a thunderbolt of lightning the Dragon roars across the sky
User currently offlineklebert From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 9 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 106910 times:
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Quoting RJAF (Reply 245):
Why did it take four days for the Malaysian Air Force to say what they are saying now?

Because so far the Malaysian responses and the handling has been unprofessional and there are too many different agencies involved on their side.
Usually this would be handled by one agency, and coordinated in the background. Here you have any and everybody comment, make allegories to European football stars (what was that about now that we are seeing the actual images of the two Iranian citizens???), even the prime ministers office comments. If they talk above each other like this in public... can you imagine what is going on behind the scenes and concerning a gvmt-owned airline? The pull and push...
I think it is simple incompetence and infighting between military, civilians, economic interests and politics.

The day has come where I actually agree with the Chinese government...

Again, this article lists some of these:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/12/world/asia/malaysia-jet.html?hp


User currently offline707lvr From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 583 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 106603 times:

It's only a matter of time before the talking heads figure out that RMAF knew the track of this aircraft for four days, apparently did not inform all the thousands of people looking for it in the Gulf of Thailand and wonder why.

User currently offlineAT From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1037 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 106266 times:

Quoting 707lvr (Reply 9):
It's only a matter of time before the talking heads figure out that RMAF knew the track of this aircraft for four days, apparently did not inform all the thousands of people looking for it in the Gulf of Thailand and wonder why.

If so, that would not only be tragic but potentially criminal.


User currently offlineVoodoo From Niue, joined Mar 2001, 2074 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 106020 times:

Quoting thunderboltdrgn (Reply 7):

I agree and regarding Anstar's theory about India/Pakistan, I doubt that the plane had so much fuel
that it could reach Pakistan, especially not if they had descended to 29500 feet.
Pakistan is almost 5 hours of flying from the point where they disappeared.

First I have heard of that theory but since its been made....
My theory about 'why 29.5K?' would be to stay below the 30K+ regular jet traffic in that area around the peninsula.
After clearing regularly used airspace they could go up to 40K.
They had over 7 hours of fuel.... they had used ~2.



` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
User currently offlineplanesmart From New Zealand, joined Dec 2004, 908 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 105919 times:

Can the authorities look at satellite phone traffic in the area at the time, especially to / from fast moving objects? Surely a passenger would have had one. If a hijack then a final call may have been made. If piracy, a call to accomplices.

User currently offlineevomutant From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 490 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 105918 times:

They have been looking to the west for days. Nobody has delayed anything.

Indeed, there were howls of outrage on these very threads that they were "wasting their time" doing so.


User currently offlinesocalgeo From United States of America, joined Mar 2014, 42 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 105997 times:

Map with buffers of 2500 miles and 3500 miles. KUL-PEK is roughly 2700 miles, so assuming enough fuel to make it 3500 miles (may not be a valid assumption), link to a live map:http://sandbox.maps.arcgis.com/apps/OnePane/basicviewer/index.html?appid=95cbede59b3e471eb14b52c362966934 this is what the range might look like:


SoCalGeo


User currently offlineASA From Bangladesh, joined Dec 2010, 729 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 105637 times:

Quoting AirCalSNA (Reply 256):
Iranians traveling with stolen passports. Plane veers west. Military tries to cover up its failure to protect country by remaining silent for days. Seems pretty clear that the plane was hijacked. What happened after that is what is still unclear.

Iran is desperately trying to revive its position in the global community and doing a good job at that. There is no reason for them to take a drastic step like this ... that too with an aircraft from Malaysia and majority passengers from China (both friendly countries to them).

Quoting CyberEntomology (Reply 243):

For what it's worth, it's about 4000 miles to Iran from Malaysia, avoiding radar. With a fairly full fuel load, that's not even remotely difficult.

... why not Pakistan? That's closer and more doable ... and frankly, given the last 20 years, Pakistan has shown us more crazies who might want to pull something like this.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 255):
I don't think Indonesia is that trigger happy. Besides, that doesn't explain why the aircraft started to fly at completely opposite direction from what it was supposed to do. The normal route wouldn't take them anywhere near Indonesia.

Does Indonesian Air Force even have stand by aircraft in that region that could take such an action promptly? Most of their assets are likely to be around Java, no? Unless you are talking about ground anti-aircraft forces. In that case, see Reply 255

http://www.scramble.nl/orbats/indonesia/airforce

Quoting anstar (Reply 238):
Ok I'm on the consipracy theories again.

While we are on conspiracy theories ... what about a piracy theory? Would Somalia be doable if the 777 started with maximum fuel? Or some remote islands in southern Indian Ocean?


User currently offlineDTW2HYD From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 1896 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 105631 times:

Quoting pvjin (Reply 1):
If the military tracked the aircraft at Pulau Perak at 3000ft, wouldn't they be able to track it's final position?

Not really, If it lost communications and turned west just before entering Vietnam airspace and flew in a straight line, it will only show up again as a blip only after it enters Malaysian primary radar coverage area, similarly blip disappears after it leaves Malaysian primary radar coverage area on the other side.

There is a huge gap from the time it lost communication and came back as primary target. That explains why Malaysians took long time to come out with new info. It doesn't mean they were tracking live, they probably went thru recordings and connected the dots.


User currently offlinegarpd From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2649 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 105383 times:

This is crazy. A £300Mil plane with 230 odd people on board with a perfect safety record doesn't just up and vanish like a fart in the wind.

What we seem to know:

- Was cruising at FL350
- Radar plot and transponder shows it beginning to make an unscheduled turn when all data coming from the plane ceases abruptly.

- No wreckage of any kind found in 4 days around last known position.

- Malaysian Military now apparently coming clean about monitoring an unknown aircraft flying from the last known position of the missing 777 to the opposite side of the country and off over the Indian Ocean where it disappeared.

- No mayday signal, no communication what-so-ever.


If I didn't know any better, I'd say this was the plot for a summer blockbuster!



arpdesign.wordpress.com
User currently offlineEXMEMWIDGET From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 105366 times:

I have a couple of questions that maybe someone could answer. If a B777 experienced a catastrophic loss of normal electrical power, how long would the onboard batteries be able to provide backup electrical power?

Would the backup gauges such as the artificial horizon, etc still work with absolutely no electrical power available?


User currently offline345tas From Israel, joined Mar 2014, 37 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 104962 times:

Quoting evomutant (Reply 13):
Indeed, there were howls of outrage on these very threads that they were "wasting their time" doing so.

That's because many people thought it was impossible that the aircraft could have crossed the peninsula without being detected. As it turned out, we were right.


User currently offlineGEG From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 290 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 104923 times:

Quoting socalgeo (Reply 14):
Map with buffers of 2500 miles and 3500 miles. KUL-PEK is roughly 2700 miles, so assuming enough fuel to make it 3500 miles (may not be a valid assumption), link to a live map:http://sandbox.maps.arcgis.com/apps/OnePane/basicviewer/index.html?appid=95cbede59b3e471eb14b52c362966934 this is what the range might look like:

Thanks  



Cant sleep...clowns will eat me...cant sleep...
User currently offlineCaliAtenza From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1575 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 105034 times:

so i guess this:

http://i.imgur.com/KtDYQf4.jpg

isn't so far fetched after all  .


User currently offlinegasman From New Zealand, joined Mar 2004, 862 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 104561 times:

Why it it even possible for transponders to be deactivated? What benefit does this confer to pilots? Because it seems to open up a major gap in aviation security - the ability to take out the transponder facilitated terrorists on 9/11, and appears that it may also be the case here.

User currently offlineDTW2HYD From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 1896 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 104181 times:

Quoting garpd (Reply 17):
- Malaysian Military now apparently coming clean about monitoring an unknown aircraft flying from the last known position of the missing 777 to the opposite side of the country and off over the Indian Ocean where it disappeared.

They are probably used to P-3s flying without transponders on, in that region, so it may not be out of norm for Malaysians.


User currently offlinemrskyguy From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1214 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 104421 times:

Quoting EXMEMWIDGET (Reply 18):

I have a couple of questions that maybe someone could answer. If a B777 experienced a catastrophic loss of normal electrical power, how long would the onboard batteries be able to provide backup electrical power?

Would the backup gauges such as the artificial horizon, etc still work with absolutely no electrical power available?

The ISFD would become the primary flight display in such a scenario, but assuming primary bus was dead in your scenario, the ISFD would have to have an optional battery pack (some do). If it *did* have the optional battery pack, the ISFD would be good for at least 2 hours. Unfortunately the Thales ISFD is only a basic device with roll, pitch, yaw, skid/slip, airspeed and altitude. The later ones have VOR capability, but those have only shown up on aircraft manufactured in the last 3 years.



"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee." -- Gunter's 2nd Law of Air
25 Post contains links nonrev : Sky News reporting the copilot has previously invited ladies into the cockpit, likely another red herring, but as part of the unfolding story: http://
26 lszb : Isn't the fueling ultimately the captains decision? Couldn't it be possible that he ordered some additional fuel? I mean, if i recall correctly, somet
27 richierich : OK - I think there are close to 4,000 posts (or maybe more) on this disappearance, which has to be an anet record for most posts without any debris or
28 OV735 : I made a similar calculation and map. Even if taking into account the trajectory that could be estimated using the point of last SSR contact and the
29 vfw614 : I don't want to be rude, but this has been brought up (and discussed) in previous threads about ten times now. MAS has even released an official pres
30 polnebmit : How much fuel on board did 9M-MRO depart with that night? I'm not asking for assumptions or guesswork since we know what their destination was plus th
31 kevinkevin : Why would the pilot want extra fuel on a flight with perfect weather. The pilot isn't the hijacker is he? Or is he?
32 flyingturtle : Troubleshooting malfunctioning electrical circuits. In case of fire, you must be able to switch off everything that isn't necessary. David
33 njxc500 : The 777 is equipped with a RAT, which would provide power indefinitely for basic instruments. If that system failed, it would fall back on batteries,
34 lszb : I'm not suggesting that he's a hijacker nor anything else. We do not know much as of now, but it just came to my mind as many of those range-charts s
35 Post contains images David L : Can the critics tell us how many resources were removed from the initial search area? Is it so hard to believe that something made them consider the
36 Burkhard : Militaries think everything is secret. To get allowance to publish any Information usually takes months. We first wondered why SAR now is on the west
37 s5daw : They didn't. The story was blown out from proportions by media. They issued a statement now explicitly saying they might have tracked the plane turni
38 nonrev : With respect, 14 pages, ~3000 posts and seemingly a new item of news, apologise I didn't have the time to read all of the above. Wasn't mentioned in
39 Prost : Regarding the two Iranians who used the stolen passports: IF they were responsiblefor this disappearance, I believe we need to separate the fact that
40 Post contains links kevinkevin : http://www.flightradar24.com/data/airplanes/9m-mro MH371 PEK-KUL before going back out on MH370.
41 Post contains links EXMEMWIDGET : Interesting article on CNet. It does appear that the satellite company's website is overloaded at the moment. http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-576...c
42 Halophila : Forgive me if this has been said before, but Aceh is literally just across the water from their last reported position and a known hotbed for terroris
43 socalgeo : I have similar thoughts. Perhaps the crowdsourcing idea for very recent sat images is an answer, but when I tried that site last night it was non-fun
44 747megatop : If the plane was turning around; from what we know it started turning left. Now, for arguments sake let's assume that it turned West/NorthWest and he
45 GEG : I have tried a half dozen times today and so far I cant get it to load.
46 Post contains links jcxroberts : Malaysia Airlines is a state owned company in financial trouble pre-crash. Any charge of systematic poor maintenance is very likely going to result in
47 456 : You are not the first, dont get me wrong but where is that 3000ft coming from? 3000ft is only mentioned as a decrease in altitude when it did the hea
48 nm2582 : Given the time it took for the relevant authorities to make the claim that they had primary radar of mh370 in the strait, and the admission that there
49 kevinkevin : Fuel load would have been the right amount of fuel for it's trip length accounting for the aircraft's cargo load plus the norm fuel load for reserve.
50 kevinkevin : Sky News reported MH370 was at 3000ft at Pulau Perak. They obviously were wrong. My apologies.
51 Megatop747-412 : According to FR24 I seemed that 9M-MRO did the exact same routing the say before it's disappearance, I.e. It did MH370 KUL - PEK in the early hours o
52 trinxat : Probably someone has asked this question before, but if the plane actually fell to the sea, the impact into the water must have been recorded somewher
53 kevinkevin : Unless 9M-MRO was deployed on a short-haul flight during those 9 hours, FR24 is probably accurate.
54 OV735 : It certainly would, and I am 100% confident that Indian fighters would have been scrambled to intercept. The only way this A/C could have crossed thr
55 Flighty : Very nice post from you. Thanks. I agree (as an a.net member nothing else) that this is an unusual dramatic story. Reasonable theories imo: Hijacking
56 345tas : The statement you speak of ****DID NOT**** deny the claims that they tracked the aircraft to Pulau Perak. Please read it.
57 fn1001 : How can they be so sure? Do they know more than we do?
58 EVAAIRBR076 : i really have no idea what happened and for me everything is possible. But for the ones with the hijack theorie or that the flight crew flew somewhere
59 747megatop : Certainly does not rule out a crash somewhere in the middle of the Bay of Bengal. From flightrada24 it looks like there is a section of Bay of Bengal
60 polnebmit : I'm sorry something does not add up here and I may be reading into this too much. How is the flight to PEK (9M-MRO being the scheduled aircraft) on t
61 kevinkevin : Interpol have said "they don't believe". By saying that does not mean they are "certain" it isn't a terror attack. They are saying it's unlikely a te
62 s5daw : I did. Here it is again. Check the bold text. OFFICIAL STATEMENT BY CHIEF OF ROYAL MALAYSIAN AIR FORCE ON BERITA HARIAN NEWS ARTICLE DATED 11th MARCH
63 MayaviaERJ190 : Terrorist attack on Kuala Lumpur theory: 1.- All contact lost/disconnected over South China Sea. 2.- Plane turns around and flies at lower altitude ov
64 ER757 : How long would a search go on before it's called off? I realize it's nowhere near that point now, but say a month goes by...or two months. When do the
65 wjcandee : Maybe the primary target they were tracking was the aircraft that shot down the MAH aircraft.
66 davs5032 : Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm assuming there would be some sort of form/record on file as to the final amount that was requested for refueling by
67 christopherwoo : I wonder if there is a life insurance scam going on with one of the flight crew / someone with access to the cockpit. Individual needs to crash the pl
68 kevinkevin : The times shown on their site shows your time zone. 9M-MRO MH371 - 7th March landed KUL from PEK 07:27AM GMT 9M-MRO MH370 - 7th March depared KUL at
69 Flighty : Yes but that coverage is strategically sensitive. Some governments may be reluctant to admit the degree of sensors they have in the region. Such evid
70 kevinkevin : All details about every flight are kept on record. So yes, there will be the exact fuel load of flight MH370 on file. Public release probably won't b
71 747megatop : When the news broke that the search area has been expanded to the Malaccan Strait; what baffled me the most is the capability/incapability of the Mili
72 washingtonflyer : Did this plane make it to IGARI or supposedly do its turn prior to it?
73 OV735 : Well, you're probably correct that in the middle of the Bay of Bengal there is no radar coverage. Yet, why would the A/C crash there, if it is in a c
74 Post contains links 345tas : Point out to me where in the text he denied reports like these: http://news.yahoo.com/search-widened...rce=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter The onl
75 octubre299 : Fox news now is reporting an instant messaging service in China says many of the passenger's cell phones are still active and receiving texts.........
76 Post contains links rwessel : As regards the question of ACARS, at least one source is reporting that Roll Royce received two ACARS messages at the beginning of the flight: "(...)R
77 octubre299 : Fox news now is reporting an instant messaging service in China says many of the passenger's cell phones are still active and receiving texts.........
78 FltAdmiralRitt : yes, I have posted this theory a while back. But It would have to be someone w/ connections to the airline and knowledge of A/C systems. Could One pe
79 klebert : This has been explained as cell phone numbers being forwarded to mail boxes or land lines. I read that yesterday, unfortunately I cannot remember whe
80 747megatop : Where is the debris? Where is the oil slick? Where are the people (either on ships or land) saying "I saw this fireball and heard this BOOM in the sk
81 David L : It's by no means confirmed that happened. All we've heard is that there's evidence that it may have turned west. The very reasons you're giving might
82 345tas : Quite. I'm sure the military intelligence agencies in the world have been taking note! This could be also one reason why Malaysia may try and give th
83 kevinkevin : How can mobile phones on the ocean bed be capable of receiving phone calls and texts. If you turn your phone off, it's impossible for you to receive c
84 Mikey711MN : From an aviator's perspective, by the time the transponder is shut off in case of fire, what would be left on? To a layman, I would think the transpo
85 max550 : And the same thing was happening days after AF447 crashed.
86 polnebmit : I understand. But how do you have 9M-MRO flying PEK-KUL that day as MH371 when it never even left KUL the previous day because the flight was cancell
87 Shanwick1011Z : Reading Part 14 I am more or less convinced now that this a/c has been hijacked under the cover of darkness with all communication aids severed. I bel
88 octubre299 : Agreed, different from phone calls, text messages actually backtrack if not being able to be delivered. Companies that handle text traffic can tell i
89 Post contains links jcxroberts : Any more theories about possible technical failures rather than kidnapping/terrorist stories that have been downplayed and nearly dismissed by Interpo
90 DALFA : The flight crew suffering from hypoxia, could that be a 'realistic' scenario? Then, the next question would be: why was the transponder switched off e
91 LTC8K6 : Well, I believe from that statement that the MAF did not make any statement about tracking 9M-MRO anywhere. I also believe that they did not track 9M
92 EricR : If you turn off your cell phone, your cell phone still receives texts. Text messages, voice mail, etc. are not stored on the device itself, hence the
93 NDiesel : Well, look at it this way: If some of the passengers/crew had iPhones with iMessage capabilities, texts could still be received by their iPads and Ma
94 blrsea : True, IAF would have scrambled its fighters if an unrecognized aircraft came close to Indian airspace without identifying itself, or if it wasn't in
95 kevinkevin : That's a mystery to me. Whether that's a glitch or not, I do not know.
96 desh : Agree - would be good to see how much fuel the aircraft took on before they left ? With the turn around that was previously unreported - would someon
97 LTC8K6 : Surely if they had tracked 9M-MRO, the military would wonder about a large unidentified target heading towards Malaysia, from the direction of the Sou
98 tim73 : If you take a look at ship traffic at https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ , you will see the Malacca Strait is very busy. It would be quite difficult to
99 s5daw : Sir, please read the article you just linked to. They "quoted" the guy who issued the statement above like this: "Malaysia's Berita Harian newspaper
100 AR385 : That, at night, is just simply not possible. No matter how gentle a landing, it would have broken up. At the very least the engines would have been t
101 DALFA : Imagine that for whatever reason (miscalculation with the FOB or maybe a fuel leak) they ran out of fuel. Would this have any effect on the usage of
102 kevinkevin : iMessage and a text message are two different things. iMessage uses internet data to send and receive messages. A text message does not? So if they'r
103 Post contains links NDiesel : I just read a rather interesting article by Peter Bergen on CNN. Even though we know absolutely nothing, looking to past cases shows us the most proba
104 Post contains images flyingturtle : Having the transponder on is not necessary in itself. It is just nice for the ATC guys down there. In practice, you need the transponder in order to
105 345tas : You appear to have skipped to the 9th paragraph and not read the actual lede. The first paragraph of the story: KUALA LUMPUR (Reuters) - Malaysia's m
106 boacvc10 : do you have a cell phone, and do you have voice mail service (on the account), or text message service (on the account) ? Then turn it off and then u
107 Pygmalion : China may have some sonar arrays in this area. US arrays are focused on the Pacific Ocean. Tsunami detection depends on water level changes detected
108 tim73 : "About 40 ships and 22 aircraft from nine countries are taking part in the search effort, which was expected to resume at first light. " Plus the tens
109 Post contains links Finn350 : Here is a CNN article with the same information but a different source: http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/11/wo...irlines-plane/index.html?hpt=hp_t1 I b
110 kevinkevin : I have a mobile phone. I turned my phone off. Rang my mobile on another phone. Went straight to answer machine. I then turned my phone on. There's no
111 awthompson : Hey, you have something there and I have been thinking similarly. If 9M-MRO headed out into the Indian Ocean beyond radar coverage and continued on a
112 spacecadet : Somebody in the last thread mentioned an Airport '77 situation... you don't even need to go back that far, or to fiction for that. You only need to go
113 evomutant : You called a domestic number from a domestic number. Try doing the same thing to an international number, where your network has to "dial out" and co
114 andy33 : Now if someone has received a text message from a passenger on the missing plane, sent after it took off from Kuala Lumpur, that's really significant,
115 sbworcs : Actually I don't. I do not know if my messages have been sent or not. This might be a service I can switch on I do not know. This whole thing is very
116 DALFA : Do we know after how many minutes the aircraft reached its cruising altitude?
117 L410Turbolet : True, but at the same time please consider the time of departure of this flight. It was a redeye flight and the number of people paying attention to
118 PHX Flyer : As likeable as the captain appears in his online profile, I think his flight simulator needs to be thoroughly examined 5to find out what exactly he wh
119 747megatop : Well, where exactly does the Indian airspace begin or end? I am talking about a point midway between the east coast of India and Andaman Islands. Loo
120 Finn350 : China is now repositioning up to 10 imaging satellites. China is probably able to imagine the sea surface for the entire flying radius of the plane f
121 OV735 : I don't know the technical side of whether or not the text can be confirmed "delivered" if the device is switched off, but... If all the passengers w
122 rfields5421 : That's where their primary radar coverage ended. The plane flew out of their coverage capability. I would disagree that the Malaysian military has be
123 Post contains images ASA : After the zillion threads, all I can do is throw up my hands and say: "I guess there are triangles outside Bermuda too!"
124 kevinkevin : Probably between 15-20 minutes. 772 is quite a swift climber. And a 5-6hr flight for a 772 is a walk in the park. About 40/50% fuel load considering
125 PHX Flyer : Actually, it hit a coral reef.
126 Post contains links flyingturtle : In order to reduce redundant requests for informations, updates etc. - and to share our knowledge on this accident, I've created a wiki: http://mh370.
127 Boeing717200 : Yup. I'm astonished at how little people understand about devices they use every day.
128 Post contains links s5daw : Apparently the whole article came from Reuters: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...lines-flight-idUSBREA2701720140311 But really, what is the cre
129 A388 : Maybe investigators should contact the providers of the cell phones of the passengers on board the aircraft to see if there are any messages received
130 Post contains images Pygmalion : to the curious. This image shows the 777 transponder and TCAS in the standby position. There would be no transmission with the standby selected. Its t
131 LTC8K6 : I don't believe the MAF tracked 9M-MRO headed toward Malaysia without ID and didn't react.
132 Mikey711MN : Very helpful response, David. Thanks! In summary, the pilot made the choice to turn off the transponder - which is acceptable in emergency situations
133 747megatop : Since the miraculous landing on Hudson did take place; anything is possible and i would not rule that (almost intact landing) out. Agreed that the Hu
134 solarflyer22 : Well, assuming the track of the aircraft is correct (big assumption at this point), I'd say someone capable of turning off the transponder did so as t
135 richierich : Is the flight simulator really that significant of a clue? I mean, yes, I suppose it could be a clue if there is reason to suspect the pilot was resp
136 kevinkevin : Baffling to me is how pilots have the option to turn the transponder off. There obviously is a perfect explanation as to why. But when there's catast
137 Shanwick1011Z : China will be using these satellites to scour all possible landing sites within range of his known fuel uptake because this hijack has been well plann
138 cabochris : All you would see is a moving anomaly return. A blip on a screen. You will be able to decipher the direction, altitude and speed of the anomaly, or w
139 rfields5421 : Almost certainly the authorities have already contacted the cell companies a couple days ago to see if anything has been received from those phones.
140 Pygmalion : Just to throw a monkey wrench into the terrorist theories... it is also possible that the airplane had a malfunction/fire etc that caused widespread e
141 Post contains images evomutant : Case solved everyone.
142 747megatop : Then i think that is where the aircraft would be on the Ocean floor. AF 447 was also found more or less in the region of the last known point of cont
143 AR385 : While the roll played a part, what actually destroyed the plane as it ditched was the speed, which I believe was close, if not upwards of 200 knts. O
144 Mikey711MN : Agreed...except that I think some sort of unintended failure is more likely since few, if any, theories that discuss terrorism fail to address motiva
145 janbrubel : Regarding cellphones. As stated earlier in this impressive string of threads, it can be explained by cellular traffic handling. When roaming cell pho
146 Post contains links manny : There are so many theories. I know we will eventually have a fair idea of what happened. Sometimes some of the facts are suppressed to make things not
147 747megatop : By intact i meant not broken into a zillion pieces. If the plane was damaged with a few ruptures but not disintegrated i would count that as intact e
148 345tas : Thanks for this and the rest of your post. I found it really helpful, and made me feel a bit bad for bashing them around for searching the Straits. I
149 Burkhard : I do believe - the guys all looked TV and the fascinating story of a missing airliner, and didn't realize it was flying dircectly before their eyes -
150 cabochris : Its a powered up piece of hardware, that only transmits info to support the systems used for ATC or TCAS enabled aircraft. You need to be able to cut
151 Post contains links LTC8K6 : http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/12/world/asia/malaysia-jet.html?_r=0
152 davidzill : I've come up with a new theory that is difficult to disprove at this point. I believe one of the pilots hijacked the aircraft after he incapacitated o
153 Hywel : Is it conceivable that the plane is “cloaked,” hiding with high-tech electronic warfare weaponry that exists and is used? In fact, this type of te
154 EMA747 : Say for sake of argument that the information is correct and the plane has turned around and headed back, do we know if there has been any suggestions
155 flyingturtle : Your ditching theory has one big hole (not in the fuselage, though): If the crew could prepare a successful ditching, they would *most* probably have
156 rfields5421 : Normally they need a 'ballpark' of where the wreckage might be to make such a search worthwhile. And it's too early in the search for the aircraft to
157 747megatop : I recollect that there was a Egyptair T7 cockpit fire on the ground. Could a similar fire have knocked out all electronics in the cockpit? Could that
158 DTW2HYD : I don't think anyone claiming entire plane is "intact" in literal sense, as you mentioned engines will the first to go so does horizontal stabilizers
159 Skyguy : As depressing and outlandish as your hypothesis may sound, it probably seems likely that is what happened. So far, if current reports are true that t
160 LTC8K6 : I think with the NYT article, that it's safe to abandon the idea that the plane crossed back over Malaysia. All we know is that it made it near IGARI,
161 TXspotter : i know it's been reported that they had 7 hours of fuel on board. Have they been able to confirm, by looking at fuel truck, the exact amount of fuel t
162 ozark1 : Yes you would think there would not be an option of turning it off. I apologize but I have not read a lot of all of these threads so it has probably
163 Post contains links barney captain : Forgive me if this satellite pic showing the outline of something resembling a 777 was already posted - http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-1103537
164 Mikey711MN : That seems most plausible - at least among the dozens of theories based on the limited data (and reliability thereof) that we have thus far. However,
165 456 : But then again. Why not sending out a mayday / ask for vectors to a nearest airfield?
166 Shanwick1011Z : We (or the authorities if they don't already) need to know the fuel uptake and what airfields the captain was recently trining on on his flight simula
167 justloveplanes : How rare is an aircraft at that altitude without an ADS-B? What is the range of Malaysian AF Radar? Is when they lost contact of the plane related to
168 456 : Ok... This is giving me the shivers...
169 Tangowhisky : This should be considered. The airplane could have turned West to some hell hole like Somalia and landed there. It only takes one weak link in the sy
170 tim73 : Most land based primary radars have maximum range of 200 miles/320 kilometers. This plane was maybe about 200 kilometers from nearest land and near Pa
171 747megatop : They would have been picked up by Indian radar if they flew over land AND would have run the risk of a midair collision over some very busy airspace.
172 flyingturtle : Seems like a (military) ship, with the white wave crest at the bow. The clouds can be misleading, they give the appearance of a wing. David
173 Post contains images 456 : You never know how long they were looking for that ship
174 TXspotter : the person filling the fuel would have to be in on the "plan" by the captain or hijackers or whoever took control of plane.
175 ikramerica : The claim is that it's so they can trouble shoot electrical faults. Fine, then when it's switched "off" or the breaker is pulled, etc., it should imm
176 DTW2HYD : Could you share more info on primary radar range. Based on what I read range generally it is 50NM-60NM, only few high powered radars built during WWI
177 Mortyman : I beleave the UK is providing P3's too
178 DeltaMD90 : That is an assumption... you can't say that with absolute accuracy. This might not be the answer but a lot of things can be turned off just in case i
179 ikramerica : Not at all. The captain requests the fuel, it's loaded. Why does the fuel jockey need to be in on it? He/she is simply informed they need X kg of fue
180 LTC8K6 : Looks interesting, but what is the location? Seems like it's probably a ship?
181 EXMEMWIDGET : A pilot friend of mine said that in the event of an electrical failure, they have a checklist of items to shut down in order to conserve battery powe
182 hivue : It strikes me that they are about at the point where they want to devote all their resources to searching "smart" rather than searching "everywhere po
183 flyingturtle : But the width of that thing is about 25 ft, which would be credible for a Boeing 777 (in thruth, it's 20-something ft, but the discrepancy can be due
184 LTC8K6 : Since they apparently did not track 9M-MRO anywhere, I don't think it matters.
185 Toiyabe : The limit on detection using conventional military (say, shipborne) radars would be limited only by the curvature of the horizon. I do not know about
186 Post contains links thunderboltdrgn : No not the UK but Australia and New Zealand according to BBC: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26514556
187 LTC8K6 : I'm sure I see a bow wake...
188 marktci : You're one "A" short. The RAAF is providing P-3s. The RAF doesn't have P-3s.
189 flyenthu : It seems more and more likely that something "odd" is up. If the pilot was locked out, then, I think it will be known to the cabin that cockpit has b
190 Post contains links Mortyman : From Norwegian Broadcasting Corporation ( translated from Norwegian ) Legal vacuum prevents the investigation of missing plane " Four days after Malay
191 Spacepope : Not likely. The UK doesn't have P3s.
192 Toiyabe : That would be most impressive, seeing as how they don't have any to provide.
193 Post contains links tim73 : http://www.livescience.com/44012-mal...rlines-mystery-radar-tracking.html "Radar facilities are based on land, and each one has a range of about 200 m
194 cjg225 : I agree. Not seeing a plane in that photo.
195 Post contains links sandyb123 : Sorry if this has been discussed, I've tried to keep on top of the threads! http://www.nst.com.my/nation/general...lished-contact-with-plane-1.503464
196 flyingturtle : I too. But which ship is about 25 ft wide? The slender bow reminds me of a warship, and even the rather small German Sachsen-class frigate has a beam
197 Post contains links mfe777 : If the "hijack and fly to remote location" theory is true, could they not also reach Antarctica? They would be flying over remote seas and probably ou
198 Post contains links DTW2HYD : Petronas is major oil company in the world, they can get at cheaper rate than China. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petronas ME3 does the same with the
199 hivue : This problem did not significantly hamper the AF447 SAR and investigation. BTW, does anyone know if the position over the Gulf of Thailand where the
200 virtual : This is what I believe happened... The aircraft turned back towards KL due to a pressurisation problem. The pilots didn't put on oxygen masks in time
201 Mark2fly1034 : If it did fly back westbound at 3000AGL as stated in reports it could of easily of climbed back up to what ever altitude it wanted after going 50 mile
202 LTC8K6 : I doubt we can rely on that scale. I wish we could.
203 Post contains links 747megatop : Folks i have been doing a bit of reading up on this incident. Read page 108 of this - http://www.civilaviation.gov.eg/acci...oeing%20comments%2019-09
204 hivue : Doesn't account for the transponder going silent.
205 Toiyabe : No.
206 garpd : How do you explain the loss of transponder and ACARS?
207 Post contains links planespotting : But again - what about the transponder? Depressurization has afflicted quite a few airplanes, and all of them had their transponders blaring during t
208 wjcandee : Doubtful. If the flight deck crew didn't get their masks on within a couple of seconds, they would be out. They wouldn't be turning the plane. Either
209 tortugamon : I wonder if there is a chance that they made a soft landing in the ocean and therefore there isn't much wreckage. The OZ 777 in SFO stayed largely int
210 flyingturtle : This has turned up several times in the past two days, if I remember correctly. But it is false. (Well, I've included it for future reference on the
211 washingtonflyer : How does this explain the transponder no longer putting out a signal.
212 LTC8K6 : I don't think that was ever stated in reports. It descended 3K feet to 32K feet, supposedly. At any rate, with the denial of the "military tracking"
213 DJM18 : I have followed most of the threads today and have little to add except to again express my heartfelt thoughts to the friends and family of all the pa
214 neoshi : I really wish Malaysia would just hand over the investigation to China.
215 tim73 : Then it would have shown in primary radars clearly for a long time because of engine fans facing them if altitude stayed roughly the same. Only way t
216 Post contains links phantomx18 : Has this been discussed: http://www.redflagnews.com/headlines...warned-of-computer-takeover-of-777 Is it possible for someone either on or off the pla
217 washingtonflyer : At this point, I do not see how this could be anything but an intentional act - by somebody or some grouping of people. ACARS and transponder turned o
218 Post contains links LTC8K6 : They would have about 15-30 seconds, taking into account a rapid decompression and being active. If they sit there calmly and just don their masks, t
219 FltAdmiralRitt : No, I do not buy into CABIN DEPRESS for the following 3 reasons. There would have been a warning of cabin pressure change in the cockpit FIRST, before
220 rj777 : Didn't it take about 5 days to find the first pieces of debris from AF447? But then again, we were talking about an A330. The OZ 777 came in at a cont
221 BAeRJ100 : IIRC this was covered in one of the very first threads - people were throwing around the 5 day figure, but in reality it was around 36 hours when the
222 Post contains links btblue : Possible total loss of electrical power as a result of a fire? I know the RAT will deploy but what if the fire was in that area - would it still activ
223 ikramerica : Or for this... Exactly. Your first task isn't to turn around. It's to don your mask, and drop the pax masks, and then descend to a safe altitude. THE
224 Dalavia : This is interesting. Several threads ago I raised the possibility that the radar signals may have been falsified to indicate that the aircraft had be
225 MSNfan : The one question I have with the theory of one of the pilots taking over the plane is that wouldn't somebody in the cabin eventually notice that somet
226 Post contains links Viscount724 : Yes, around 36 hours. The aircaft disappeared Sunday night and the first wreckage was spotted early Tuesday. http://www.nbcnews.com/id/31057560/n...s
227 neoshi : You are assuming there is signal over a large body of water...
228 Post contains links and images NDiesel : I took the liberty to do a small comparison with the picture posted above. Note that it's not measured to scale; this is just a comparison between the
229 Post contains images rcair1 : Reference reports on mobile phones ringing and receiving texts Please folks: Consider these three things. Hearing a ring tone when you call a mobile
230 speedbird203 : This is what's confusing me with the possibility the crew were involved. I then thought it depends how quick that happened, but from all reports the
231 ikramerica : Wait until you are off the coast and cell phones stop communicating. Turn off beacon. Put on your flight deck oxygen masks. Depressurize. Drop the ma
232 max999 : The front of the New York Times webpage has called the search to be in disarray. I'm not surprised considering the things I learned when I visited Mal
233 thunderboltdrgn : Wasn't this aircraft equipped with in-flight phoning capabilities? There were some post in the previous (or the thread before that one) that suggeste
234 speedbird203 : And then you get a possible answer like that! There are quite a few possibilities with more leaning more towards the crew being involved. I'm wonderi
235 Post contains links 747megatop : Cnn has a detailed map of the course change and loss of contact in the Malacca Strait now - http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/11/world/...irlines-plane/index
236 tim73 : This is from Leeham: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BicsRCFIgAAYt66.jpg If the sea current directions are correct and plane flew a while south east while
237 rcair1 : The autopilot is electric - it would be off. To do the "electrical failure" followed by "slow unnoticed decompress -> hypoxia" followed by "stable
238 Post contains links flyingturtle : If you can trust the scale on the Tomnod map (the "100 ft" indication), your comparison is to scale, give or take. That thing is +/- 25 ft wide. And
239 lucaspithan : Even in countries with a lot of political problems there are a lot of great profissionals who works in areas like aviation. I'm from Brazil and I reme
240 awthompson : Typical passengers on a flight are quite oblivious to whats going on outside, especially at night. I could almost guarantee that if the flight map sys
241 davs5032 : I don't know much about this, but I recall many saying in previous threads that if the plane had crashed on land, the ELT would transmit a signal giv
242 NDiesel : Probably wishful thinking from my end but when I lowered the exposure on the image I detected "gaps" in between the white object next to it, as if co
243 MSNfan : That is true, but unless there was a mass incapacitation of the passengers by the crew like described above, at some point between now and then, some
244 Post contains links lucaspithan : Is it possible to happen this in a 777? Would exist another reason to the disappearence of the radar? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flig
245 PW100 : So did the plane turn west and over flew Malacca Strait or even Andaman sea? Malaysian "officials" suggested that, but later denied confirmation of su
246 wjcandee : Yeah, yeah, Wikipedia says 30-60 seconds TUC at FL350, but that's from tests on people who were expecting it. I think that when one experiences an ex
247 Boeing717200 : One has to wonder how things would shake out if there was a fire in the avionics bay that managed to knock out the ability to communicate as well as
248 s5daw : SU-GBP was built in '97. From the report: Oxygen Light Plate Wiring The 777-200 aircraft were found to differ from Boeing’s current design. In part
249 spacecadet : Not to keep harping on the cell phone thing, because while I do think it's a story, I don't think it's ultimately going to matter... but... Yeah, but
250 flyingturtle : I wish it isn't wishful thinking, because wishful thinking alone doesn't help anybody... I just argue that the size of that thing resembles the one o
251 cfischaleck : Would that be necessary ? Plane flying stable at FL350, Autopilot fails. It would just keep flying, and as it's weight decreases due to fuel burn, ev
252 Boeing717200 : The problem is this doesn’t account for an apparent transponder outage unless in the course of oxygen deprivation they managed to turn it off think
253 thunderboltdrgn : ELT surely are battery powered and as thus should work regardless of aircrafts electrical power status. If they run on aircraft electricity then they
254 wjcandee : I totally agree with you, RCAir. Also, if phones can receive, they can transmit. If anyone were alive, unlikely that nobody would try to transmit som
255 justloveplanes : +++++++++++++++++++++++ What I am getting at is did the plane crash? or did it just exceed radar range at MAF to track it as part of a carefully plan
256 wjcandee : Of course. Duh. I was only debunking the hypoxia issue, not addressing the other factors of which we are aware, which further debunk that theory. As
257 Boeing717200 : Roger. The thread is moving so fast I think I got crossed up.
258 PW100 : I'm sure that is classified information. This may be the reason why the Malaysian authorities are not so forthcoming with their data, or even relucta
259 Post contains images 777Jet : I attached this image in the last thread. I took the pic of an info card in the seat pocket while flying on 9M-MRG in June 2011, which, according to t
260 stuyyz : I seem to recall that a stall avoidance/recovery procedure can involve a sharp turn and pointing down.... do any of the experienced pilots on here ha
261 Post contains links phantomx18 : This new overlay has me convinced that this section of the ocean needs further study. What is most striking in my opinion is the angle of the right "w
262 s5daw : Could be a submarine. Aspect ratio looks about right. Plus, submarines have vertical stabiliser.
263 777Jet : Interesting... It could be a large and small ship side by side?
264 lucaspithan : But in this case we all would see the plane descending in the radar.
265 wjcandee : Okay, new-ish topic. ("-ish" because we have been hearing rumors of this for days, but now the media has jumped on it as truth). USA Today and CNN are
266 dc9northwest : That's a 777-300 overlaid there, no?
267 BoeingVista : I've had people get delivered reports from UK networks where the messages were not delivered. This is a red herring.
268 PW100 : That system would still have to use the on-board systems to establish connections to satellite or land based stations. One would expect that if the t
269 solarflyer22 : Agreed, it was either turned off or blown off. It has several redundant power sources. I suspect the former. It takes some skill to do this and it do
270 777Jet : I think a plane would not look that size if the image was taken at a great height through the clouds. A ship a few hundred meters long would more like
271 damirc : 7.55708N, 103.229215E if I'm correct. Approx 49mi@330 deg from the initial SAR position. D.
272 philask : Could just as easily be two ships docked up against each other.
273 gatorman96 : That's an interesting GIF, but you could flash a ship over that image and it would look exactly like a ship. As others have stated before, I would in
274 PW100 : Did I understand correctly that ELT does not work under water? It will only work if its antenna is in open air? Thanks, PW100
275 wjcandee : Well, it's past sunrise in the Gulf of Thailand. Let's hope today brings some results.[Edited 2014-03-11 16:49:39]
276 Post contains links SpaceshipDC10 : To me, what is visible on that illustration looks more like this than an airliner. And what is considered as the right wing is just a cloud.
277 JimIA : Is it possible that the windshield or a cockpit window failed? It doesn't sound like 777s are prone to such failures, so its exceedingly ulikely. But
278 lucaspithan : I don't know much about the 777s. But as I asked before, would be possible to happen with this kind of plane the same with the 733 of Helios Airways (
279 cjg225 : Each day that passes makes this more bizarre. I wish I wasn't in all-day training the today and tomorrow. Leaves me completely unable to keep up, eve
280 ChaosTheory : Pitch down and roll the wings levels. Apply thrust if necessary. There's not enough information to suggest they were performing a stall recovery.
281 damirc : Did some measurements. The "fuselage" is 7,5-8,12 meters wide (12-13 px on the picture, 32px corresponds to 20 meters) on this picture providing the
282 YokoTsuno : How are these airplane batteries tested/maintained? Used batteries generally have a lifespan that is way below their specifications.
283 Post contains links TheRocketeer : Ha! You guys will get a kick out of this: "The plane's transponder and other tracking systems were either shut off or not functioning around the time
284 phantomx18 : I totally agree that this looks a lot like a ship, if you consider that those things on the side are clouds or that there is another shipped docked n
285 777Jet : Let's hope for something soon. It would be difficult to survive out there for so long without anything if there were survivors...
286 solarflyer22 : I think you're confusing it with the blackbox pinger. That pings for 30 days on impact underwater. The ELT does not function underwater to my knowled
287 Speedbird128 : Before you have a go at everybody.... Have you worked on a radar system recently? Do you know the abilities of PSR vs SSR? I'll clear this up then -
288 Enobar : In regards to the text messages/phone messages being "delivered" can I just throw out there the question of what would happen in the event of a News o
289 PW100 : That seems very plausible to me, at the moment. And that is basically all we know at this point. So that returns me to the important question: for ho
290 Starlionblue : Transponders can be turned off for basically two reasons. 1. On the ground when you're not moving. Say during maintenance or before taxi. 2. In case
291 tortugamon : They wouldn't need to go too far West to find a place for a stolen aircraft. It would be out of character but the straight of Malacca is/recently was
292 PW100 : Please, get a grip on yourself. Journalists are not experts. These guys must explain stuff - that is like rocket science for themselves - to non-info
293 SLVRBLT : Crazy stuff. Triple-7's sized- planes aren't going to have accidents and leave no traces. The South China sea/Vietnam Gulf is shallow enough that seat
294 bobbypsp : First off keeping up with 14 pages! I have a question in regards to the on purpose depressurization: While pax O2 running out soon, the crew has acces
295 PW100 : Yes, that is what I thought and wanted to convey. Thanks for confirming. PW100
296 blrsea : Does the Malaysian Airforce co-ordinate with the civilian ATC on flights, especially near the borders? If an aircraft tried to re-enter Malaysian airs
297 Post contains images stuyyz : Don't think its a ship. This is what a ship looks like.... i ran across a couple while tagging the satellite images.
298 spacecadet : Then the authorities should say so. I'm confused as to why the fact that they haven't yet isn't raising any flags with some people. This is a story t
299 Post contains links trex8 : Its been touched upon a few times but I don't see a lot of discussion of possible causes of catastrophic structural failure or flight control which co
300 lazybones : This is exactly what I was thinking, the transponder identifies the aircraft and location. Where are the primary radar hits from the civilian ATC. Wa
301 vnangia : There's actually surprisingly good Indian naval coverage well into the Bay of Bengal using OTH radars in Orissa, Tamil Nadu and Port Blair in the And
302 777Jet : I'm worried too. Also, from the point of view as a passenger, I used to think that if I was on a flight that had trouble and went down (even if it di
303 PW100 : I think they DID just that. It was reported here that one of officials said during a press conference on day two or three, that he himself dialed suc
304 DeltaMD90 : Sigh... no one is asking anyone to read all 3000+ replies but at least skim the threads and CTRL+F to find similar questions. As explained multiple t
305 gulfstream650 : Going with the turn to the Malaca Straights theory, I would like to know what was the rate of descent to 3,000ft was (rate could indicate whether or n
306 PW100 : Or outside radar coverage over the Gulf of Thailand midway between the shores of Malaysia and Vietnam/Combodia . . . Or within radar coverage, but th
307 noflies : Long time lurker. Like aviation, don't like flying (go figure). My similar question is: Why only one reported military radar sighting near some islan
308 Post contains images acabgd : And left absolutely no debris anywhere? If there was such a fire the plane would be unflyable, crew incapacitated (see SR111) and would most probably
309 Post contains links thunderboltdrgn : I'm of the opposite opinion. Imo it looks like some sort of ship. possible with a pilot boat on its port side.[Edited 2014-03-11 17:39:15]
310 Starlionblue : It would indeed make sense to attempt to contact the flight deck if there was communication from there. I agree with you but I think that no amount o
311 Speedbird128 : See reply 289. (just 13 back from your post).
312 Post contains links tim73 : Telegraph is reporting the issue: "American transport officials warned of a potential weak spot in Boeing 777s which could lead to the "loss of struc
313 ukair : someone mentioned malaysia airlines did not have ACARS like AF 447 because it was a paid service perhaps after this incident the FAA will make it mand
314 na : If the sudden event started with knocking off the transponder and other signal systems (structural failure causing this and THEN leading to hypoxia o
315 mcoatc : And how does the plane get turned back? By the now incapacitated crew? The crew would have donned their masks prior to turning back. Sorry, it still
316 Speedbird128 : It did have acars. If I recall correctly Rolls Royce have advised they received 2 engine parameter reports from it...
317 trex8 : IIRC previous postsMAS have confirmed they have ACARS but there were no abnormal messages. How often it send signals is apparently dependent on how m
318 Post contains links PanAmPaul : Malaysian officials are contradicting one another. Now the Air Force is saying that the plane did not head over the Strait. Malaysian Air Force: Plane
319 MSY-MSP : Which interestingly corresponds to the early reports of a heading change from 024 to 333. Not saying that that is the plane, but there are very few s
320 airplanedaj : From what MH officials have said, 9M-MRO had ACARS, but no messages were received. This is interesting, and I'm surprised that this isn't being jumpe
321 777Jet : That was suggested in here. However, at a press conference MAS made it sound like ACARS should have transmitted but didn't which makes me think that
322 gatorman96 : Makes sense... 3) Terrorist act 4) Total loss of the aircraft Do we know how often the transponder transmits an aircraft's position? Does it only tra
323 hivue : I think an earlier post indicated that this aircraft did not have the SatCom antenna on top of the fuselage.
324 Post contains images aljrooney : HI Guys, Just as a thought, where are the antennas for the transponder/ACARS/VHF/HF etc positioned on a 777? Could a non catatrophic structural failur
325 David L : You're not getting mixed up, it is debunked. They reported this a couple of days ago.
326 hivue : That's a pretty worthless ACARS then.
327 bradmovie : I have read every post in this strange and sad saga, and my thoughts go out to the passengers, crew and their families. I thought it might be worthwhi
328 hivue : Airliners have more than one antenna.
329 acabgd : You get what you pay for...
330 Starlionblue : The transponder responds to radar queries. In practical terms it sends out information once a second. Simplifying here, but there are three basic lev
331 Toiyabe : Just throwing this out there, but isn't the transponder LOS as well?
332 Speedbird128 : Or.... there was nothing to report via ACARS prior to whatever happened happening...
333 Mikey711MN : Based on a past post, it appears as though MAS does not subscribe to the ACARS service. The statement being made by the airline, then, is somewhat ak
334 777Jet : Possible. The "weak spot" might have opened, taking out the transponder and other communication equipment. The pilots programed the autopilot to turn
335 hivue : From takeoff to the plane disappearing there was nothing for ACARS to report?
336 Post contains links FlyAAS80 : Believe it or not, I managed to pull myself away from these threads to read what I thought was an unrelated article from the AP on the British shoe-bo
337 acabgd : Apparently there were two engine messages reported via ACARS to RR - after takeoff and during climb. That's all.
338 777Jet : I wonder if MAS management know this? J/K
339 trex8 : A zillion posts ago that was said (and repeated maybe a million ago again) , but very early on someone said they have 2 side fuselage ones and not th
340 Post contains links hamiltondaniel : As to the TomNod Crowdsourced "fuselage" image reference multiple times above, speculated to possibly be a 777 or a ship: http://cmd0.com/images/plane
341 horstroad : on CNN I just heard of a theory by a pilot that if the FMC failed (together with the transponder in case of some sort of electrical failure), the auto
342 airplanedaj : Has MH confirmed that there is no ACARS on board, because from what I've read, it just seems like ACARS had nothing to say. Many people here seem to t
343 Speedbird128 : Yes, LOS is a requirement, however given that the aircraft was out to sea, there should be no problem attaining the maximum range with is around ~250
344 Starlionblue : You have to remember the point of ACARS. It is primarily a maintenance system. It is not an aircraft tracking system or a DFDR. You can't blame ACARS
345 Speedbird128 : Yes, thank you - I already wrote that in reply 318 . My point is that ACARS appeared to be functioning based on what Rolls Royce have provided, so th
346 Post contains images Starlionblue :
347 acabgd : Well, it wouldn't... I don't really see the point in ACARS discussion. It is useless in determining the fate or this airliner with what we know now.
348 Post contains links JettTracer : Someone from the Malaysian authorities involved in the investigations, regardless, are trying to hide something from the very start. The conflicting i
349 Post contains links and images Mikey711MN : There are a lot of threads now, so I can't locate the exact post. But IIRC, the AD refers to models that have a "bump" in the fuselage, and fatigue c
350 teo747 : I don't think the picture found on Tomnod is clearly or obviously anything, and hopefully it is followed up on unless there are more detailed images
351 Post contains images socalgeo : Here is that location on my map...not sure about the gif image though...if the coords are correct, and the image is recent, then it seems like its wo
352 Speedbird128 : Then don't discuss it. I was merely answering the very repetitive queries about this and that regarding ACARS with facts.
353 phantomx18 : You would think that this would be as simple as seeing if the object is in todays satellite image, to figure out if it is clouds, a ship, whales, or
354 gatorman96 : Awesome, thanks! So, if they are out of the range of radar, wouldn't that mimic the transponder being turned "off." I can't imagine the center of the
355 acabgd : You don't really have to be rude. And you could also quote the whole post, as this is pretty much taken out of context.
356 virgin744 : I'm sure it may have already been suggested/asked, (cant be bothered to check through over 1000 posts) but does anybody know if the Malaysian authorit
357 Post contains links jetfuel : The stream of news and rumors is ridiculous Malaysia's air force chief denied a media report that the military last tracked a missing Malaysia Airline
358 Post contains links Starlionblue : If a plane is out of range of secondary radar, there is no radar to receive transmissions so in that way it is the equivalent of "standby" or "off".
359 laddb : To me to Tomnod image is two ships tied up together. Search around Signapore with google maps and you will see plenty of large ships next to a slightl
360 Tangowhisky : Here is what we know regarding the last segments of communication: [1] The plane disappeared from secondary radar 1:21 a.m. Saturday while flying at 3
361 socalgeo : Its alot of work to take the raw data that is coming off of the sensor and process it into the geolocated mosaics that you see on web maps like Zillo
362 Speedbird128 : I'm sorry if it came across as rude. I'll quote the rest of your post. We *know* actually incredibly little. Apart from one thing - a 777-200ER is go
363 jourdan747 : Is anyone considering this a pilot suicide? I remember an Egypt Air pilot committed suicide and crashed the 767, as well as there was a recent pilot s
364 Post contains links Starlionblue : The general says he never said that: http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking...issing-jet-strait-malacca-20140312 That seems like a very complex way to
365 Starlionblue : We have spoken about it multiple times in multiple threads including this one. I know it is hard to skim everything but at least do a simple "ctrl-f"
366 Post contains links aseem : The most convincing explanation so far... "Darby, for one, believes purely mechanical issues remain the most valid possibility now. His main point is:
367 TreeHillRavens : About 6 hours 26 minutes. No. It did not because the flight opeating into PEK from KUL on March 8th, 2014 never landed. No. It did not. Last flight b
368 Tangowhisky : So where did such detail then come from. Is he being told to shut up? Not many business jets have the range or destructive capacity of a 777. Not at
369 DeltaMD90 : Wouldn't there be some light out there, somewhere? I'd imagine the pilots would try and get some kind of reference point even if it's a single ship t
370 trex8 : You need cell towers and coverage for cellphones to work. Tens of miles from the coast you aren't likely to get anything!
371 Web500sjc : A plane will fly relatively straight and relatively level without a pilot. It must be proven that an airplane can do this for certification. So just
372 EMA747 : I'm not disagreeing at all but just pointing out that that applies to most of the theories at the moment. I was discussing this with my aviation frie
373 asetiadi : Boeing and Airbus should made a permanent transponder that cannot be turned off by any means. This way should the transponder went off then we know so
374 DeltaMD90 : Well yeah, I meant I'd use that light as a frame of reference and try to find another one and hopefully get to shore. Never flown over this area duri
375 Post contains links DeltaAtl : http://bit.ly/PqW36Q
376 spacecadet : Yeah, I saw that, but saying you called one phone and it went straight to voicemail isn't the same as saying you contacted the cell phone companies a
377 lazybones : Cheers mate, I missed that one. And yes it makes perfect sense. An electrical fire near the cockpit could. SwissAir 111 (SR111) flew for 20-30 minute
378 PHX787 : I missed parts 9 up until now, so forgive me for being blatant, but I've heard rumors that the plane could have been taken somewhere else (FOX News br
379 Post contains links flood : Apparently not, as according to CNN: "Malaysia Airlines' ISP AeroMobile tells CNN's @aaroncooperdc that #MH370 "was never fitted with the AeroMoible
380 Starlionblue : We've been through this. An electrical component that cannot be turned off with a switch or circuit breaker is a safety hazard. Creating a transponde
381 jcxroberts : When you are out of oxygen it is easy to make mistakes and become disoriented. That could account for any of the anomalies bothering people. There wo
382 ikramerica : I do not buy this argument. Encapsulate the battery, add fire suppression. It should be considered a mission critical, fail safe system. Alternately,
383 Web500sjc : Then the only way to stop the arcing to the transponder would be to shut everything off, instruments, batteries, generators and all - hence the need
384 gulfstream650 : That has been my theory too. Simple old school ground reference navigation following an epic electrical failure. Let's hope at least that that was th
385 DeltaMD90 : Why? Even that could fail. I'd much rather be able to shut off anything than have the pilot that could just nose down and destroy the airplane not be
386 asetiadi : I am with you on this part.
387 LTC8K6 : They have a regular old fashioned compass, should have been able to make a pretty straight line back to KUL I would think. Assuming they could contro
388 Post contains images Starlionblue : Adding complexity and risk to a system for a one in a billion possibility is not only economically indefensible. It is heading in the wrong direction
389 cschleic : Then it most likely would be the only system on the plane that couldn't be turned off. What's next, prevent engine shutdown so someone can't let it g
390 vnangia : This has been discussed. While it's not yet possible to rule out a hijacking, the level of obsession with Iran that Fox ... "News" has knows no bound
391 Web500sjc : Jives up with my general idea of what happened, did they fly over a unpopulated part of the country and completely miss the coast because there were
392 777Jet : Interesting. Maybe it was only installed on MRG for trial purposes and they did not install it on any other aircraft or just installed it on a select
393 asetiadi : Let's say if the pilot wanted to go to the airport ASAP, why turn around? why not just go straight to Vietnam which is far more closer?
394 Post contains images Starlionblue : No it would not. If it is out of range there is no signal that reaches it so it would not respond. However transponders still work for traffic avoida
395 Post contains images Web500sjc : If it wasn't anything time critical, and I did not know the capabilities of the airplane in a stable system, I would go home. anyone know the magneti
396 Post contains images Trin : My thoughts exactly. Is it *possible* that the jet made it that far? Well, sure - but if it had we'd already know about it and already know its where
397 asetiadi : @starlionblue: So I'm guessing and safe to say that nobody on earth knows where this plane headed? For all we know then this plane could be anywhere n
398 Starlionblue : An agonic line crosses the Gulf of Thailand so the variation is zero or close to it for the area.[Edited 2014-03-11 20:08:20]
399 KC135Hydraulics : Whatever it is, I doubt it is such that it would lead the pilots to grossly miss their desired destination entirely. Even 10° off on a 40 minute ret
400 soundsfishy : A pilot in this case may feel that, since KUL is their home airport, the familiarity with the airport is a strong benefit vs. flying into SGN or else
401 asetiadi : ok I understand this part, but I thought a professional pilot should be able to land at any valid airport, regardless where they are. I mean the land
402 dirktraveller : Hi everyone, I tried my best skimming the past two threads that I had missed since my internet break down last night. Apologies if I had come with que
403 Centre : Hypothesis! Will reach 500 posts before we have mods wake up and start new thread
404 flyenthu : That is that so difficult to gulp.....has the 777-200ER have had any history of electrical malfunction? Can a catastrophic electric failure occur wit
405 Starlionblue : An agonic line crosses right across the Gulf of Thailand so it is zero or close to it for th You are absolutely right. However the psychological fact
406 9VSIO : Just because they CAN doesn't mean that they WILL.
407 mandala499 : This is getting ridiculous. Sorry, a lot of posts here are covering things that do NOT make sense. Kota Baru would be the nearest to his position. No,
408 Post contains links jetblueguy22 : Hi All, As this thread has gotten extremely long we ask that you please post in the new thread which can be found here MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Mi
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