A select few members have been making remarks towards others in the “Missing Malaysia Airlines 777 threads” for speculating about the fate of 9M-MRO, her crew and passengers. Given the fact that there is so much uncertainty going on at this stage, speculation is going to be a factor on this site and also at the biggest and greatest news corporations of the globe. At least until we all have a clearer picture. Is it a perfect situation – certainly not? That being said, we need to stay dynamic in a possible fast-changing situation.
It is not unique to this incident and if we go back in history and trace remarkable aviation events we will see that speculation has been an aspect, essential to some healthy debate. It is not the intention of the moderators to stifle the opinions of members that fall within the rules-and regulations of airliners.net. All that we kindly request from all our members is to stay within the site’s parameters. Please be respectful towards one another and let us all hope for the best possible outcome.
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LTC8K6 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1655 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 57603 times:
This captures three types of reports:
The first are snapshots, where the sensor data listed above is captured and collected into a small report. This is carried out during take-off, during climb and once the aircraft is in cruise.
The second type is triggered by unusual engine conditions. Examples might be if an engine exceeded its TGT (Turbine Gas Temperature) limits during a take-off. These reports contain a short time-history of key parameters to enable rapid and effective trouble-shooting of the problem.
The final type is a summary, which is produced at the end of the flight. This captures information such as maximum conditions experienced during the flight, and power reductions selected during take-off and climb.
AR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7517 posts, RR: 42
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 57333 times:
"Quoting dcsben (Reply 209):
If it is indeed true that the a/c kept on flying for 4-5 more hours, then it is again quite possible that the transponder was turned off and the plane flown somewhere intentionally."
I read that. But it makes no sense. Which terrorist group in that part of the world, giving the ass kicking they´ve been receiving for the past decade and a half, has the infrastructure to carry out such an operation? I can buy they managed to hijack the plane and fly it somewhere, land it (it´s happened before) but then prepare a 777 for a future operation? With no government in that part of the world knowing about it? It sounds like a bad Bond movie plot.
The only place it could have gone if flying West is to countries that are not going to be able to hide something like this for such a long time, or not knowing about it.
"Quoting 777Jet (Reply 223):
Also, how come it has taken five days to find out that the engine monitoring data suggests that the plane flew for 5 more hours?"
I would guess that it´s data that has taken a while to analyze and then re analyze.
Finn350 From Finland, joined Jul 2013, 1002 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 57360 times:
As reported in the previous thread, Wall Street Journal claims U.S. investigators suspect that Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 stayed in the air for about four hours past the time it reached its last confirmed location, according to two people familiar with the details, raising the possibility that the plane could have flown on for hundreds of additional miles under conditions that remain murky.
Owleye From Netherlands, joined Feb 2006, 979 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 56757 times:
I have a feeling....
Last radar signal from MH370 (en route from Kuala Lumpur to Bejing) was above Vietnam Sea/South Chinese Sea. New Zealand oil ridge worker (on oil ridge south of Vietnam) sees burning plane falling from sky into South Chinese Sea. Chinese satellite might found debris in South Chinese Sea.
Fishermen found dead body with life jacket in Malakka Street. Life raft was found in Malakka Street. Malaysian Air Force picked up radar signal from an unidentified flying object (maybe a disguised or not responding plane) above Malakka Street.
My feeling: maybe a stealth aircraft collided in mid-air with the Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777. The airliner crashed in South Chinese Sea and the stealth aircraft tried to get back to Diego Garcia or other base but did not make it and crashed into Malakka Street.
nm2582 From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 153 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 56514 times:
Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 1): The final type is a summary, which is produced at the end of the flight. This captures information such as maximum conditions experienced during the flight, and power reductions selected during take-off and climb.
Goodness. This seems to be the only type that fits a scenario which would communicate a duration of flight.
What conditions have to be met for "end of flight" to be triggered and this summary set? If we're talking about a controlled proper engine shutdown, then things are about to get super, super interesting...
EDIT: upon second thought, the report could also have been the "unusual engine condition" report.
If they received an "unusual engine condition" report but no "summary" report, that could indicate that the flight did not end with a controlled landing (the unusual engine condition could have been flame out due to fuel starvation, or an excessive throttle setting for excessive duration?? just guessing here).
On the other hand, if they received a summary report, then the plane could be wheels down somewhere.
The content of the data they have will be very telling.
Can you say more? 4 hours loss aloft without control and comms - that's difficult to envision (although I realize we are in exceedingly difficult to envision territory), particularly since (1) WSJ did not report anything unusual in engine ACARS (although sources could be holding back) and (2) we have an indication of a significant post-transponder failure heading change but no indication after supposedly flying back over Malaysia that the a/c maneuvered in direction of land. So it would be four hours of uncontrollable but relatively stable, straight flight.
What does the range circle look like four hours after it was lost from Malaysian radar?
It's on this Twitter, a few posts down:
His range circle does seem conservative. I don't have image-creation capabilities at the moment but my Google Earth fooling around yields a circle stretching from central Pakistan to central Australia.
And, of course, extending VERY far into the Indian Ocean.
CO777DAL From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 648 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 56001 times:
Some of you guys are great at making maps. Can someone make a map with a radius from the last know point showing how far this plane could have flown if it did fly 5 hours more. That would help a lot of us visualize up to where this plane could have gone.
Worked Hard. Flew Right. Farewell, Continental. Thanks for the memories.
spacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3993 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 56057 times:
From the earlier thread:
"NTSB investigators are not amateurs and neither is the Wall Street Journal. "
I seriously doubt the NTSB is leading this investigation from the US side. They are probably involved as they would have the technical knowledge to know what to do with stuff like ACARS data. But the WSJ left very little doubt that this is a counter-terrorism investigation that's going on in the US. And why wouldn't it be at this point? The Malaysians are leading the SAR (for now), there's no actual crash to investigate (I mean, not one that's been found)... all there really is to do from the US side is make sure no one's going to get hit over the head with an airplane.
I doubt it was the NTSB that gave this info to the WSJ. The NTSB doesn't typically leak stuff to the press. Other US government agencies are known to do that, however, both intentionally and not. (But I'm guessing this was the former.)
[Edited 2014-03-12 23:13:17]
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
AR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7517 posts, RR: 42
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 55492 times:
Quoting CO777DAL (Reply 13): Some of you guys are great at making maps. Can someone make a map with a radius from the last know point showing how far this plane could have flown if it did fly 5 hours more. That would help a lot of us visualize up to where this plane could have gone.
If heading West, it could be India, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Sri Lanka or the Maldives. If on its current heading at point of contact loss, somewhere in China.
I know we do not know for sure and that we are all just guessing at this point in time, but I highly doubt the captain would hijack the plane or allow it to be hijacked. He was experienced and had been with the airline since the 1980s.
Quoting nm2582 (Reply 11): What conditions have to be met for "end of flight" to be triggered and this summary set? If we're talking about a controlled proper engine shutdown, then things are about to get super, super interesting...
Very true. Could it also have been that it sent the summary when the engines turned off because of a crash, so more of a mechanical or forced shutdown rather than a proper shutdown?
Also, have the authorities been able to verify the report of the New Zealand oil ridge worker or are people blowing that off at this point? Do we know when there will be verification or further investigation into what the Chinese satellite saw?
The opinions I post are mine and not of any organization I am affiliated with.
sipadan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 54607 times:
If WSJ reporting is accurate, and data interpretation is conclusive and bears out that the plane was aloft for another 4 hours, the only possibility is that the plane was commandeered by either crew or "terrorists". What is MOST PROBABLE, and what I've heard is now driving the main vein of the investigation, is the Captain acting alone. There has been some speculation, in "reputable" circles, that the pilot of MH370 was afflicted by a type of delusional personalty disorder. Particularly a propensity towards grandiosity and ego-inflation, which may have been catalysts to an event such as is now unfolding. Again, this is very preliminary, perfunctory speculation but IS THE line of logic currently driving the investigation. As for the status of a/c and passengers, officials are being very cautious about releasing any pertinent information as the situation is "very fluid" and "dynamic" and of a "sensitive" nature. I will post more when I have more info.