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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19  
User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 26
Posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 73539 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

Due to length part 18 was locked for further contributions. Please feel free to continue your discussion in part 19.

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B777-200ER missing enroute KUL-PEK (by Longhornmaniac Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2 (by LipeGIG Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 3 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 7 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines 772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 8 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 11 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13 (by SA7700 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14 (by SA7700 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 16 (by SA7700 Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17 (by 777ER Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)


A select few members have been making remarks towards others in the “Missing Malaysia Airlines 777 threads” for speculating about the fate of 9M-MRO, her crew and passengers. Given the fact that there is so much uncertainty going on at this stage, speculation is going to be a factor on this site and also at the biggest and greatest news corporations of the globe. At least until we all have a clearer picture. Is it a perfect situation – certainly not? That being said, we need to stay dynamic in a possible fast-changing situation.

It is not unique to this incident and if we go back in history and trace remarkable aviation events we will see that speculation has been an aspect, essential to some healthy debate. It is not the intention of the moderators to stifle the opinions of members that fall within the rules-and regulations of airliners.net. All that we kindly request from all our members is to stay within the site’s parameters. Please be respectful towards one another and let us all hope for the best possible outcome.


PLEASE KEEP IN MIND:


**** Out of respect to the crew, passengers and also family members; close to those onboard MH370; could we please keep science fiction theories and content related to possible future movie rights out of these threads? ****

**** Please do not repeat questions and scenarios that were covered and discussed in previous threads and which do not contribute in a constructive manner towards the real topic any longer. ****

**** Please make an effort to read through some of the threads, if possible the latest in the series, before adding your own comments and theories to the current, active thread on this issue. ****

**** Once again please be respectful towards other users and keep the forum rules and regulations in mind when posting in the forums. Should there be any rule violations, please bring this to the attention of the moderators by making use of the “suggest deletion function”. ****



Enjoy the forums!

Regards and thanks for your co-operation,

SA7700

[Edited 2014-03-13 03:35:26]


When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
256 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinegarpd From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2630 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 73651 times:

Has any other incident ever covered so many threads?

Dear Lord, 19 threads and we still only know one thing: A 777-200ER is missing.



arpdesign.wordpress.com
User currently offline77west From New Zealand, joined Jun 2009, 125 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 73417 times:

Quoting garpd (Reply 1):
Dear Lord, 19 threads and we still only know one thing: A 777-200ER is missing.

Wait untill they find it... we will be up to 100 threads....



77West
User currently offlineUALWN From Andorra, joined Jun 2009, 2755 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 73146 times:

So the WSJ report about RR receiving ACARS messages 4 hours after the last otherwise known contact with the plane turned out to be untrue, according to MH, Boeing and RR. So much for the "the WSJ wouldn't put their reputation on the line like that unless they were totally sure of this" theories...


AT7/111/146/Avro/CRJ/CR9/EMB/ERJ/E75/F50/100/L15/DC9/D10/M8X/717/727/737/747/757/767/777/AB6/310/319/320/321/330/340/380
User currently offlineDalavia From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 543 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 73160 times:

In view of the press conference this evening that denied Rolls-Royce and Boeing had any evidence that MH370 continued to fly for several hours after radio contact, I re-read the WSJ article very closely.

Leaving aside the weasel words like "US investigators suspect...", "officials are pursuing the possibility..." and "officials were told investigators are actively pursuing...", I think the key words of this very clearly and precisely written article that relate to the original source of the theory are the following:

"The investigators believe the plane flew for a total of five hours based on data automatically downloaded and sent to the ground from the Boeing Co. 777's engines as part of a routine maintenance and monitoring program."

This seems to be the data that the MAS spokesman denied existed.

So my question is this: is it possible for such data to be generated but not communicated to Rolls-Royce or MAS for some reason (such as distance from VHF relays etc), but still be able to accessed by the US military or other US Government officials?

In other words, is saying that the data was not received (by Rolls-Royce, Boeing, etc) the same thing as saying that the data was never generated?


User currently offline777Jet From Australia, joined Mar 2014, 1415 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 72955 times:

Quoting UALWN (Reply 3):
So the WSJ report about RR receiving ACARS messages 4 hours after the last otherwise known contact with the plane turned out to be untrue, according to MH, Boeing and RR. So much for the "the WSJ wouldn't put their reputation on the line like that unless they were totally sure of this" theories...

Reply 262 of the last thread discusses a possibility...



DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90,717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788,306,320,321,332/3,346,388
User currently offlineslinky09 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2009, 826 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 72572 times:

Quoting 9VSIO (Reply 251):
I see the point you're trying to make, but what if the search turns up nothing? Does one start searching the homes of the passengers? Imagine the backlash!

Yes, especially those who create a loud "ping" with the intelligence agencies. I can't imagine they haven't studied the passenger manifest minutely to try to identify any persons of interest.


User currently offlineDalavia From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 543 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 72577 times:

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 5):
Reply 262 of the last thread discusses a possibility...

Thank you 777Jet.

My Reply 262 in the previous thread was posted just after the thread was locked (you have to be SO quick here!).

I have re-posted my question in Reply 4 above.

[Edited for spelling]

[Edited 2014-03-13 03:39:59]

User currently offline777Jet From Australia, joined Mar 2014, 1415 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 71934 times:

I'd like to know what was on the cargo manifest. We discussed before about the MH A330 that was written off. I was just searching for more details about it and learned it had just arrived from PEK:

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20000315-0

"After arrival from a flight from Beijing, baggage handlers were unloading 80 canisters weighing 2,000kg when they were hit by the strong toxic fumes. Five ground handlers became ill while unloading the canisters.
A check by airport fire and rescue personnel revealed the canisters contained a chemical called oxalyl chloride. Several canisters had leaked, causing severe damage to the aircraft fuselage. The aircraft was considered damaged beyond repair.
After a fice-year lawsuit a Beijing court ordered Dalian, a Chinese state-run company, to pay USD65 million in compensation, plus interest, for destroying the Airbus A330 with falsely declared cargo with corrosive chemicals. The company had mis-identified the canisters as being a safe powder-type chemical."



DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90,717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788,306,320,321,332/3,346,388
User currently offlinefiscal From Australia, joined Oct 2009, 319 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 71936 times:

I think we have to bear in mind the following.

If the disappearance is considered natural, then MAS or anyone else for that matter, should have no reason to withhold information from the public. For the first few days all normal commercial operations have been checked but found wanting.

However, Malaysia does not have the capabilities of the US, and maybe China, to track a multiplicity of activities through it's spy network. If the US has volunteered sensitive information privately to the Malaysian government with the intention to keep vital information away from the public, and any adversary, then misinformation is the natural result. Is this what we are seeing now? I suppose only time will tell.


User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17002 posts, RR: 67
Reply 10, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 71935 times:

Quoting Dalavia (Reply 4):
So my question is this: is it possible for such data to be generated but not communicated to Rolls-Royce or MAS for some reason (such as distance from VHF relays etc), but still be able to accessed by the US military or other US Government officials?

Technically possible in theory, I suppose. But now we're really getting into tinfoil hat territory. What would be the motive?

Quoting Dalavia (Reply 4):
In other words, is saying that the data was not received (by Rolls-Royce, Boeing, etc) the same thing as saying that the data was never generated?

Of course not. But this doesn't mean there is a cover-up. This data has to travel far over multiple relays, any of which might drop the ball, as it were.

Quoting fiscal (Reply 9):
If the disappearance is considered natural, then MAS or anyone else for that matter, should have no reason to withhold information from the public.

Malaysia and other countries involved may very well want to keep air defense radar capability secret.


From previous thread:

Slinky09 - Why would you not search the homes of the crew, just as a precaution to eliminate any activity on their part?

Answer: I'll assume here that Malay law is similar to most Western law systems given the UK heritage. Since there really is no evidence to implicate the crew in anything, you can't search their homes. A judge can not rule probable cause and thus a search warrant cannot be issued.


Slinky09 - I was watching on Sky News who had Eric Moody (BA pilot of 747 that suffered four engine failure over Indonesia) who said he believes something is being held back.

Answer: Perhaps, but this does not automatically imply malicious intent. Being cautious with information release is a reasonable precaution.

[Edited 2014-03-13 03:49:04]


"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1563 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 71725 times:

Quoting Dalavia (Reply 4):
In view of the press conference this evening that denied Rolls-Royce and Boeing had any evidence that MH370 continued to fly for several hours after radio contact, I re-read the WSJ article very closely.

This is truely the worlds worse soap opera. The daily press conferences get more confussed and depressing everytime.

Quoting Dalavia (Reply 4):
So my question is this: is it possible for such data to be generated but not communicated to Rolls-Royce or MAS for some reason (such as distance from VHF relays etc), but still be able to accessed by the US military or other US Government officials?
Quoting Dalavia (Reply 4):
In other words, is saying that the data was not received (by Rolls-Royce, Boeing, etc) the same thing as saying that the data was never generated?

The NSA has the planet tapped so its possible..

[Edited 2014-03-13 03:50:41]


BV
User currently offlinegarpd From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2630 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 71538 times:

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 8):

Hmm, lets just entertain for a moment, if only in idle chit chat, the possibility of a cargo item generating toxic and potentially flammable fumes/gases. Could such enter the passenger cabin and EE bay from the cargo holds on a 772ER with ETOPS rating?



arpdesign.wordpress.com
User currently offlinedtfg From China, joined Jan 2013, 74 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 71360 times:

Ok guys I don't know if this theory has been brought in before, but it is the one I think could answer most of the questions.

The co-pilot, or any hijacker who knows how to fly the plane, and how turn off all the communication systems, took control of the aircraft. He then changed the route and altitude to avoid radar surveillance. The plane finally landed intact at an small airport ( particularly a military airbase ). The hijackers started to negotiate with Malaysian officials and warned them not to make the incident public until the deal is completed, otherwise all passengers on board would be in danger.

I think, this theory answers all the following questions:

1. The plane lost all contacts with the ground.
2. 5 day's massive searching finds nothing, no debris, no bodies, no signs of in-air explosion,,,
3. No confirmed witness of crash, force landing, explosion etc.
4. Military said the last signal they received was not in the Bay of Thailand, but rather in the Strait of Malacca, which indicates the plane had changed its route.
5. Relatives in Beijing and Kuala reported they were able to call the passengers' cell phone, but no answers.
6. Malaysia officials seemed to be very unprofessional in the SAR
7. SAR is still underway (Just a show)

Yibo

[Edited 2014-03-13 03:56:29]

User currently offlineFinn350 From Finland, joined Jul 2013, 668 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 71130 times:

I suppose it is technically possible that the plane's satcom system initiated communications with the satellite but it was interrupted and no ACARS message was generated but still have some trace in the satellite communication logs. 100% speculation on my part.

User currently offline777Jet From Australia, joined Mar 2014, 1415 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 71096 times:

Quoting garpd (Reply 12):
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 8):

Hmm, lets just entertain for a moment, if only in idle chit chat, the possibility of a cargo item generating toxic and potentially flammable fumes/gases. Could such enter the passenger cabin and EE bay from the cargo holds on a 772ER with ETOPS rating?

I would think so.



DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90,717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788,306,320,321,332/3,346,388
User currently offlineDalavia From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 543 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 71117 times:

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 10):
But this doesn't mean there is a cover-up.

Interesting. I wasn't even thinking of a cover-up or a plot of some kind.

I was simply wondering whether technical limitations (such as distance or altitude) may have caused a communications breakdown - trying to look at every possibility before the WSJ article is dismissed in my mind.


User currently offlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3739 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 71101 times:

Quoting garpd (Reply 12):
Could such enter the passenger cabin and EE bay from the cargo holds on a 772ER with ETOPS rating?

The Environmental Control System is designed to deliver fresh air straigtht from the Left pack to the cockpit. Anything burning or heavily smoking in the holds or cabin should theoretically not be able to make it to the flightdeck as it would be forced out the outflow valve before.

Then again, it is a complex system and we can speculate forever (which we seem to be doing anyway) on different failure scenarios which would allow it to happen. I'm sure there's a few.



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17002 posts, RR: 67
Reply 18, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 70713 times:

Quoting garpd (Reply 12):
Hmm, lets just entertain for a moment, if only in idle chit chat, the possibility of a cargo item generating toxic and potentially flammable fumes/gases. Could such enter the passenger cabin and EE bay from the cargo holds on a 772ER with ETOPS rating?

The smoke alarms would have detected it. A rather large part of ETOPS certification is actually beefed up fire suppression in the holds. And then the air systems are designed to keep it out of the flight deck.

While we are talking ETOPS, we don't know if this 777 was ETOPS certified and equipped.

Quoting dtfg (Reply 13):
Ok guys I don't know if this theory has been brought in before, but it is the one I think could answer most of the questions.

The co-pilot, or any hijacker who knows how to fly the plane, and how turn off all the communication systems, took control of the aircraft. He then changed the route and altitude to avoid radar surveillance. The plane finally landed intact at an small airport ( particularly a military airbase ). The hijackers started to negotiate with Malaysian officials and warned them not to make the incident public until the deal is completed, otherwise all passengers on board would be in danger.

I think, this theory answers all the following questions:

1. The plane lost all contacts with the ground.
2. 5 day's massive searching finds nothing, no debris, no bodies, no signs of in-air explosion,,,
3. No confirmed witness of crash, force landing, explosion etc.
4. Military said the last signal they received was not in the Bay of Thailand, but rather in the Strait of Malacca, which indicates the plane had changed its route.
5. Relatives in Beijing and Kuala reported they were able to call the passengers' cell phone, but no answers.
6. Malaysia officials seems to be very unprofessional in the SAR
7. SAR is still underway (Just a show)

While remotely possible, this theory has way too much James Bond to be likely. So many things would have to work perfectly the first time that only the world's most naive/foolhardly/idiotic terrorist would even attempt it. I suppose if you had the terrorist equivalent of Chuck Norris, the only man alive who can land a plane on Runway 37.

1. It would be very difficult to steer clear of all radar and all observers. As those who have flown over the Gulf of Thailand will tell you, there are so many fishing boats you could practically walk across by hopping from one to the other. Ok, so I may be exaggerating a bit but this area is packed with shipping.
5. For the hundredth time, this was debunked days ago. Those phones are NOT BEING REACHED. They are not ringing. If they could really be reached tracking the phones would be trivial.

[Edited 2014-03-13 03:58:36]

[Edited 2014-03-13 03:59:19]

[Edited 2014-03-13 04:00:22]

[Edited 2014-03-13 04:00:43]

[Edited 2014-03-13 04:01:53]


"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offline777Jet From Australia, joined Mar 2014, 1415 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 70299 times:

Quoting francoflier (Reply 17):
Quoting garpd (Reply 12):
Hmm, lets just entertain for a moment, if only in idle chit chat, the possibility of a cargo item generating toxic and potentially flammable fumes/gases. Could such enter the passenger cabin and EE bay from the cargo holds on a 772ER with ETOPS rating?

Sure, but the smoke alarms would have detected it. A rather large part of ETOPS certification is actually beefed up fire suppression in the holds.

Then again, we don't know if this 777 was ETOPS certified and equipped.
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 18):
Quoting garpd (Reply 12):
Hmm, lets just entertain for a moment, if only in idle chit chat, the possibility of a cargo item generating toxic and potentially flammable fumes/gases. Could such enter the passenger cabin and EE bay from the cargo holds on a 772ER with ETOPS rating?

Sure, but the smoke alarms would have detected it. A rather large part of ETOPS certification is actually beefed up fire suppression in the holds.

Then again, we don't know if this 777 was ETOPS certified and equipped.

My worry would be what a corrosive substance could do to the structure / air frame if it were to leak.



DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90,717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788,306,320,321,332/3,346,388
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17002 posts, RR: 67
Reply 20, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 69581 times:

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 19):
My worry would be what a corrosive substance could do to the structure / air frame if it were to leak.

It would have to be ridiculously corrosive to get through the cargo container, the cargo hold floor and the fuselage in a few hours. Look at it this way. If it was that corrosive how could they get it on the flight before it corroded its way through the container?

And assuming it was burning through, it wouldn't get through everything instantly. And even if it did that and the plane had a structural failure, you'd have major pieces of debris.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 69398 times:

On the first day, there were unconfirmed reports of the aircraft landing at Nanning in southern China, which were discounted after someone rang the airport and was told that the aircraft wasn't there.

Have any western journalists attempted to visit civilian and especially military airfields in China to see whether there is a 777 on the tarmac?

If this was a hijacking, it took place within a week of the terror attack in Kunming by Chinese Muslim separatists, and on an aircraft to China. We've all seen different countries respond to hijackings differently. But this aircraft was flying to China, and any hijacking by terrorists presumably had the Chinese as the target.

I would assume that if the aircraft was hijacked, the Chinese would have got it to land at a remote military airfield and would then have tried to storm it. If they did, and if they failed, with mass casualties, what would they have done next? Continue the charade of an offshore search and rescue mission?


User currently offlinepeterinlisbon From Portugal, joined Jan 2006, 461 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 69353 times:

Maybe Malaysian decided to send the canisters that ruined their A330 back to the Chinese company.

User currently offlineflyingturtle From Switzerland, joined Oct 2011, 2330 posts, RR: 13
Reply 23, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 69334 times:

Quoting garpd (Reply 12):
Hmm, lets just entertain for a moment, if only in idle chit chat, the possibility of a cargo item generating toxic and potentially flammable fumes/gases. Could such enter the passenger cabin and EE bay from the cargo holds on a 772ER with ETOPS rating?

AFAIK - no, because the bleed air first gets to the pax cabin, and then to the cargo area. Wouldn't make much sense otherwise. There are also dedicated "channels" near the cabin wall at foot height so that the air can easily go from the cabin to the cargo bay.


David



Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
User currently offlineslinky09 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2009, 826 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 69123 times:

To earlier questions on whether the plane flew on for several hours, the minister said:

"I would like to refer to news reports suggesting that the aircraft may have been flying for some time after the last contact. Those reports are inaccurate."

He was referring to reports of data receipt by RR / Boeing which he says they confirmed did not happen. But if he can say this, I wonder what information leads him to conclude that, he seems to be indicating loss of the aircraft close to its last known position (then why has nothing been found?).


25 trinxat : Quoting 777Jet (Reply 104): Now that you mention.... I think actually the explanation is that Chuck Norris was on the plane, he got served a cold cup
26 Starlionblue : What possible motive would the Chinese have for such an asinine stunt? And as with the "terrorists took it" scenario this one also depends on far too
27 Post contains images flyingturtle : I appreciate your hyper-dark humor that incorporates lots of weapons-grade balonium! Is there still no news about checking the floating stuff photogr
28 Post contains links AirPacific747 : NOW EVERYONE CAN HELP TRYING TO LOCATE THE WRECKAGE BY CLICKING HERE: http://www.tomnod.com/nod/challenge/malaysiaairsar2014
29 Starlionblue : 1. Please don't yell. 2. This has been mentioned multiple times already. Please skim previous threads and do a text search. 3. Some informed posters
30 Post contains links flyingturtle : You can do that since three days, give or take. I would really appreciate it if the mods would push our little wiki - http://mh370.wikia.com - so tha
31 EnviableOne : One thing I think has been missed, if you look at the FR24 data M9-MRO was flying on track 025 and the last data loses altitude and the track changes
32 777Jet : I must not forget that 'the transponder stopped transmitting' - that is the key clue...
33 Starlionblue : We don't know that. All we know is that press information seems to have been somewhat jumbled. Since the loss of contact happened in the Singapore SS
34 celestar : I think based on latest information, it seems that the airplane continues to fly, how come no one talks about searching around Philippines sea or area
35 Post contains links noflies : "an MMEA plane was deployed but found nothing and that the government of China neither authorised nor endorsed the release of satellite images." From
36 Post contains images 777Jet : They also spend a lot of time, probably more time, locating boat people in the waters between Australia and Indonesia.
37 EnviableOne : I wasn't saying the areas are similar, its more about managing the SAR effort, along the lines of co-ordinating resources from multiple nationalities
38 Post contains images David L : I was still wading through the previous thread when it was closed but there are some comments I still want to make: From Part 18... There was video of
39 JimJupiter : There's no evidence for that.
40 Gonzalo : I'm astonished for the low level that some journalist can have. They repeat everything like trained parrots, without checking absoultely nothing. Some
41 ltbewr : If this a/c was flying for 4 hours after its transponder was turned off, that would pretty much wipe out/write over the information on the CVR and pos
42 777Jet : What is intriguing is that there is no evidence yet that it crashed or stopped flying normally...
43 Ty134A : Not quite! I feel that we know the following for sure: En route to PEK the 777 lost communication instruments. There are two possibilities for that -
44 garpd : This was just debunked by RR, MAS and Boeing.
45 koruman : The first thing to acknowledge is that the Chinese would be very likely to storm an aircraft if it was hijacked to their country. The second thing to
46 Speedbird128 : I am currently scanning an area off the coast of Ho Chi Minh City... they don't seem to be too far off...
47 David L : Apologies to rcair for stealing his excellent summary from Part 16 but I felt it needs to be repeated ASAP: Sanity check. I'm going to try to list wha
48 JimJupiter : True. But it still has to be hypothesis No. 1 that it crashed, and that we don't know why because we haven't found the wreck yet. At least it's far m
49 Post contains images 777Jet : Drones. I might call it a day, keeping in mind that if I lose my $250 mobile phone it can be found anywhere in the world yet a massive $250 million d
50 Luxair : I agree with both you, possible that the Philippines is the key here! There are thousands of islands and keep in mind that many places there are real
51 BackSeater : Reconciling WSJ and Malaysia news briefing by tracing ACARS data path I posted in the previous thread that I assume MH uses SITA as Service Provider f
52 Post contains images Luxair : Sarcastic mode on "It probably arrived at destination on time" sarcastic mode off
53 BoeingVista : Orgainsations that hack a dozen people to death at a train station are unlikely to politely land an aircraft at a military facility when asked to, if
54 Post contains links and images JimJupiter : This might be useful: http://mh370.wikia.com/wiki/Mh370_Wiki (by FlyingTurtle) Would you mind throwing your phone into an ocean, so we can verify?
55 ThunderboltDrgn : Spot on![Edited 2014-03-13 04:57:53]
56 gr325 : Flying WIth Fish just tweeted " So who is right? @WSJ or @Boeing / Rolls Royce when it comes to the data being transmitted from #MH370’s engines? M
57 Dalavia : Thank you. That is a very clear answer to the question I asked in Reply 4 above.
58 Speedbird128 : throw it in the middle of the indian ocean and then try locate it...?
59 Ogre727 : I am sorry... I don´t get what you are trying to say (or humor for that matter). Surely the US/China/other countries have good radar coverage of the
60 A380Heavy : So the Chinese release three images from one of their satellites which purported to show possible debris from flight MH370, where they were very preci
61 ASA : are the Chinese taking revenge for hauling them around the first few days?!! This whole search operation seems unbelieveably haphazard, misdirected,
62 Post contains images cjg225 : I don't think it's very clear at all. Is he saying that there were reports for 4 additional hours that never made it to Rolls-Royce? Or that it took
63 blueshamu330s : I apologise profusely in advance if my question has been answered previously; it is difficult to keep always up to date when these threads are moving
64 Dalavia : BackSeater can probably speak for himself, but if I understand his post correctly, he is not saying either of these things. I think he is simply sayi
65 BuyantUkhaa : Try throwing your $250 phone into the ocean! (Or any other phone for that matter.)
66 Boeing717200 : This investigation et al is starting to go Keystone cops right now. Someone needs to get it together.[Edited 2014-03-13 05:19:53]
67 gr325 : Let's say that it was a hijack of some sort. IT must have been well planned, maybe even ATC personnel could be connected to it to let it through airsp
68 PanHAM : They would have cut an MH awb and decided at last Minute to send it on a Chinese airliner using a Transfer manifest. Now, manifest is the key word, o
69 vegas005 : I read in one of the early threads that fuel on board was Beijing plus 2 hours.
70 Post contains links koruman : It's interesting that you say that. For a start, if the Chinese had shot it down over the ocean, wouldn't they have made no acknowledgment and left u
71 PlaneInsomniac : IMHO using a submarine only makes sense when a pretty exact location is known. It certainly does not make sense to scour the ocean across a large reg
72 PillowTester : Semi off-topic but there should be a new ICAO law that mandates basic aircraft location like speed, altitude and coordinates be transmitted continuous
73 LTC8K6 : This cycle of claims and denials, hope and despair, is disheartening.
74 Boeing717200 : You'd have to have a system that would receive that data anywhere in the world and the airlines would have to pay for the expense of keeping that dat
75 456 : It's maybe a stupid remark after 6 days, but is there still a possibility that the plane is near the last point of contact with ATC? Can it be possibl
76 BackSeater : Reconciling WSJ and Malaysia briefing (cont'd) Sorry if you think that my message was not clear. ACARS transmits when it has something to transmit and
77 Post contains links BaconButty : This might suggest an answer: http://www.oceannavigator.com/March-...-2013/A-legendary-offshore-danger/ A shipping container might appear triangular
78 Post contains links ThunderboltDrgn : Yeah thats correct they do, http://edition.cnn.com/2014/02/21/wo...d/container-ship-loses-containers/ http://webecoist.momtastic.com/2011/...ocean-of
79 LTC8K6 : And when that circuit or device starts smoking and burning because it's defective...?
80 DTW2HYD : They were not released by Chinese government. One of the satellite data imaging institute released it. It appears there is some tussle between govern
81 LTC8K6 : That's what I am sticking with from now on. IGARI until proven otherwise.
82 PillowTester : You can't seriously think that's a compelling counter argument.
83 pvjin : No, because the aircraft is most likely not flyable anymore, wherever it is. I think the idea of somebody stealing a commercial jetliner and some tim
84 katekebo : This is absolutely false. You may be able to find your phone if you lose your phone in a city or along a major highway. But venture just a few miles
85 fiscal : My paragraph was more in the context that if it was a crash, and the military located it on their radar, they have nothing to lose by saying "why don
86 David L : A lot of that is because they're having to dismiss the encouraging but inaccurate reporting that keeps appearing between the press conferences. The C
87 trex8 : There was a radio interview of a friend of the Uighur artist on NPR in the US yesterday. May even have been a BBC feed. The friend says this was the
88 Post contains links Viper911 : A quote from wikipedia: "An estimated 10,000 containers at sea each year are lost by container ships, usually during storms. Full article here: http:
89 hamiltondaniel : I have to say this guy discredited himself to me last night when he was going on and on about MH370 being some sort of Chinese superspy stunt to kidn
90 slinky09 : I agree that your interpretation is right. The reason I honed in on it was because the language was very specific, and this minister went to an Engli
91 sipadan : hmmm...transponder stops and "turn back" is initiated (possibly) RIGHT AFTER ATC HANDOFF (coincidence???). Hmmm...WSJ reports plane continues to fly f
92 trex8 : I read WSJ every day at work for the last quarter century. But I wouldn't believe anything they say except on business matters, and in the past some
93 N328KF : No, that's not what happened. The WSJ article made claims, and the Malaysian government denied them. RR and Boeing have been notably silent on it pub
94 cjg225 : No, that's okay. The way your post read, there wasn't really a conclusion or thesis statement. You explained a few transmission methods, but there wa
95 Rara : Exactly. This is an important point. Unless we read something directly from Boeing or Rolls Royce, we shouldn't discredit the Wall Street Journal rep
96 Post contains links LTC8K6 : Signals on Radar Puzzle Officials in Hunt for Malaysian Jet http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/13/wo...ysia-airlines-flight-370.html?_r=0 So they tracked
97 Post contains images Starlionblue : As pointed out, there are good reasons why anything electric on a plane has at least a circuit breaker so you can kill it. If you make something impo
98 Post contains links trex8 : RR have said they cannot make any statements officially "While the company had been cooperating with the Malaysian authorities since the plane disappe
99 Starlionblue : ACARS and satcom are apples and oranges. That is, ACARS is the reporting system while satcom is a communications method. AFAIK ACARS uses VHF or satc
100 Post contains images Asiaflyer : Thanks for bringing this up again. Some posters should read that before they post. One of the most sensible remarks written here today. I dont see th
101 2008matt : Who else has access to data from engines etc other than Boeing or RR? And if there isn't anyone else, how has WSJ gotten hold of this information and
102 sipadan : NOTABLY SILENT speaking volumes...for if WSJ was inaccurate, believe me, we would know. Hmmm...no distress call.
103 David L : Yes, my view is that command of the English language is not a major factor. The major confusion and contradiction seems to me to be originating elsew
104 parapente : Last reply 91. Was just about to say similar but this is my first read (only the last page) (what do you guys do all day?). But yes Sipadan has IMHO t
105 trex8 : Neither OEM are going to say anything specific which relates directly to the investigation except for tangential confirmations eg Boeing saying the s
106 glbltrvlr : Sorry, this statement is factually wrong. Most modern aircraft can transmit ACARS messages over one of three links: VHF, HF and Aero Satcom. There is
107 David L : I'm pretty sure the Malaysian official stated that the denial was being issued based on discussions with RR, Boeing and MH. It's been noted in previo
108 Rara : I know, I was wondering how these relate to the engine reporting feature. Is this reporting always done via ACARS? Because the Malaysian officials ha
109 rfields5421 : From the previous thread concerning how soon the Malaysian military 'knew' of the primary radar return crossing back over Malaysia and to the southwes
110 A380Heavy : Not being funny but just how big do you think shipping containers are? I've never seen one 24 x 22 metres!!!!
111 456 : And they should be empty and not letting any water in order to have a very small change to float. Nor do I see that it ripped open and then float as
112 rfields5421 : Do Boeing and RR have some secret data transmission system from airborne aircraft that no one on this forum has known about for years?
113 slinky09 : Yes, noting that he also said: "Reports suggesting that the Malaysian police searched the homes of the MH370 crew are not true. The Royal Malaysian p
114 Viper911 : I wasn't saying that the images do show containers I was only referring to the reply i quoted regarding container loss in maritime shipping. But same
115 trex8 : Yeah, its called the NSA public outreach system to aircraft and engine manufacturers! Planes have to be regularly maintained and they get heavy check
116 SKAirbus : A question: how far away would search and rescue ships/planes need to be away from the black box in order to pick up its tracking signal?
117 Post contains images bjorn14 : At this point they might want to bring in some psychics.....
118 Post contains links theaviator380 : That's interesting now, is this first time someone claiming MH370 might have crashed in this area? Please have a look > http://www.mirror.co.uk/new
119 N328KF : The discrepancy between the official Malaysian government statements and the WSJ article might easily be explained with something along the lines of t
120 LTC8K6 : Meh... It's just a guess and not the first time it has been suggested.
121 jcxroberts : The WSJ quoted US investigators, it wasn't the opinion of the newspaper. And Rolls Royce wasn't quoted in the article. As for the Boeing / RR denials,
122 liquidair : both myself and starlionblue posted this theory about 8 threads ago, but there's problems with it... Mainly transponder, comms and other stuff. plus
123 AustrianZRH : I wonder why nothing like the following is implemented in civil aviation: - mount a small pod in/at an exposed part of the aircraft, e.g., the top of
124 solarflyer22 : WSJ is a crap paper no offense. I watched them closely over foreign affairs issues and like 80% of what they write is unsubstantiated much like the c
125 trex8 : So it could fly another 10 hours+ after having flown an hour plus on a 6 hour flight with supposedly only enough fuel for another one or two hours???
126 theaviator380 : Sorry, although I am going through almost all threads and comments I might have missed yours. Yup agree, interesting but not practical going that far
127 LTC8K6 : That's one of those things that people keep suggesting... But they are all impractical, unfeasible, dangerous, or unnecessary...
128 pvjin : How can we know that? Would Diego Garcia have a radar coverage good enough to detect the aircraft flying possibly over 1000km away? And if nobody els
129 ComeAndGo : I don't believe the WSJ article. 2 days ago it was stated on here that RR had received two data messages from the engines. One at take off and one at
130 Post contains links PanAmPaul : OK so the Malaysians are coming out strongly against the WSJ report, making this even more of a game of "he said she said". Officials Deny Malaysia Ai
131 jcxroberts : Unless the plane went to a country that doesn't mind. There are probably state actors involved if this is a hijacking or diversion. I agree this is n
132 Post contains links chrisrad : As of now I have an NTSB Investigator who tells me the @WSJ #MH370 data transmission story is credible … working on more info— Flying With Fish (@
133 jcxroberts : What about the one at landing ?
134 Post contains links and images j77w : I'm sorry to say, but I think the psychics (or in this case, a local 'Bomoh') beat them to it http://my.news.yahoo.com/mh370-bring...rs-and-psychics-
135 AT : This is one convoluted investigation. The Chinese satellite releases and now the Rolls Royce engine data are just another twist to this tragic tale. I
136 liquidair : thats very true, we cant know for certain. But I'm guessing Diego Garcia has good coverage of the area.... Maybe some ships in international waters a
137 Owleye : Direction Ile Amsterdam (Amsterdam Island)?
138 boacvc10 : I have worked with people (not defense industry) who design academic and civilian space remote sensing missions, with cameras on CubeSats. I can ask t
139 BackSeater : Reconciling WSJ and Malaysia briefing (cont'd) What I have tried to convey in my posts #51 and #76 is that it would make sense to have at least some u
140 LXLucien : With 200+ pax on board, if it would land somewhere unknown, theres always one who tries to call help by either Cellphone or Sat-Phone. Is there still
141 Post contains links trex8 : RR have neither said its true or not true, they are not saying anything The plane’s Trent 800 engines were manufactured at the Rolls-Royce plant at
142 Redsand187 : Is there an official source to Boeing and RR denying the data exists? Or is it all based on the Malaysian claim? It seems Malaysia doesn't have the ab
143 David L : Where are you getting the idea that RR is saying anything different from what the Malaysians are saying?
144 Flighty : Sounds like the engine manufacturer should have said this on day 1 of the crash! Assuming there isn't an odd data latency issue.
145 Post contains links and images flyingturtle : Actually, if I correctly remember what I've read years ago, stuff like this is implemented on the British/German/Italian Tornado fighters/ground atta
146 David L : The Malaysian statement was, they say, as a result of discussions with Boeing, RR and MH. It is apparently quite normal for OEMs and operators to con
147 Ecflyer : Trying to fit possibilities into what could work with what is known (thanks Don Rumsfeld): For argument's sake: Bad guy is at controls, understands 77
148 rebr : Actually I wouldn't blame the Malaysians too much. It's not their job to disprove everything a newspaper claims to be the truth. They can't really do
149 macsid : Given earlier comments about the possibility of 4 hours' extra flying, commandeering and the references to "asset acquisition for later use", might/sh
150 Post contains images nuggets : I find this somewhat interesting. I'm not an aviator (I'm in the consumer electronics industry and am getting a kick out of the "I can find my phone
151 hivue : Correct. Some are good and some are bad.
152 Kaiarahi : It's a legal requirement under the accident investigation provisions of the International Convention on Civil Aviation that all public communications
153 trex8 : I'd buy that except half the higher echelons of the Malaysian government probably went to better schools in the UK than you and I could ever get into
154 IADCA : So it's been quite some time since this plane disappeared and a lot of words have been tossed to and fro, but the basic story here is that virtually e
155 Post contains images David L : That's the difference between someone who knows and someone who only thinks he sort of knows.
156 hivue : The working hypothesis on day 1 was that the plane crashed at about the time all communications were lost (I said that was the working hypothesis, no
157 laddb : As interesting as the many theories are, remember Occam's razor. The simplest explanation is usually the correct one. And as frustrated as I am with a
158 Trin : This has been bugging me, too, throughout the entire ordeal. Has Ho Chi Minh City ever confirmed that they did/did not speak with MH-370? Surely I wo
159 cjg225 : That was 3 years ago. Even if RR didn't receive it, as some suggest, I want to know who received it. Who knows these transmissions were made? Further
160 solarflyer22 : I thought RR said they received nothing after 1:07 AM local but perhaps that was MH speaking. Is it possible RR got another transmission 4 hours late
161 Post contains images hivue : I believe it has been mentioned several times on this thread that they said they didn't (of course we're on part 19 of the thread and my brain is sta
162 slinky09 : Really there are only a few facts, then a lot of hypothesizing, and in sympathy with the Malaysian authorities they haven't said much more - whatever
163 Post contains images Redsand187 : It is also ~1 week prior to St. Patrick's Day. May we have another case of Snakes on a Plane?
164 giopan1975 : Is there any possible scenario where A) transponder off and B) all people on board lose consciousness
165 huxrules : Well it could be something as simple as this- RR doesn't want to change the ACARS on each plane every time a Airline changes it's maintenance subscri
166 hivue : [quote=giopan1975,reply=171]Is there any possible scenario where There are "possible" scenarios for everything.
167 Post contains images Trin : OK, thank you. It is getting very hard to keep track of all the threads here and all the discussion - so I was pretty sure somebody would be able to
168 glbltrvlr : Sorry - I read your original post too quickly. What you posted is correct!
169 SKAirbus : A fire? Say a fire broke out... it could knock out the coms and penetrate the hull causing a decompression thus making the passengers and crew unconc
170 flyingturtle : This is not the meaning of Occam's razor. It has nothing to do with being correct. Occam's razor serves to keep all theories as simple as possible, b
171 trex8 : Why publicly? They have a duty to tell the authorities and nothing more. They have no duty to call a press conference on their own and announce it to
172 Post contains images hivue : When this whole incident is settled it's virtually certain it will not have a simple explanation.
173 spacecadet : That's not actually what Occam's razor says. What Occam's razor says is the explanation with the fewest assumptions is usually the correct one. In th
174 Kaiarahi : Which would have been a breach of the International Convention on Civil Aviation. Instead, in accordance with the Convention, they informed Malaysian
175 spacecadet : Where did you see him claim that?
176 hivue : It's looking like the RR/ACARS thing is just another worthless rumor. But if it is not and if RR had evidence the plane was still operating 5 hours a
177 Kaiarahi : These threads are reminding me more and more of the first 20 or so AF447 threads. Some of the same people accusing the Malaysian authorities of incomp
178 spacecadet : This is all I've read from RR on the matter - parse their words carefully: Erin Atan, a spokeswoman for Rolls-Royce in Asia, declined to comment on t
179 laddb : I respectfully disagree. It means that the theory with the least amount of assumptions is the one that is most likely correct. Not to abandon assumpt
180 aw70 : A summary of sorts from my personal angle: - Right now, practically nothing except the last known position of the flight, that it signed off from Mala
181 zeke : You are probably used to flying domestically over land, VHF transmissions have a range of around 1.23*sqrt(altitude), at 35000 ft that is 230 nm. It
182 Kuja : A somewhat macabre piece of foreshadowing I noticed - the line number of the Boeing 777-200ER, 9M-MRO, is 404. I am sure that anyone who has spent any
183 IADCA : In the spirit of speculation and Occam's razor, let's assume the plane, just after its last transmission and observed transponder output, went into a
184 Ecflyer : Could the subject aircraft land on a hard-packed, unpaved surface?
185 Kaiarahi : WSJ twitter feed. See the last thread.
186 laddb : I see now that my wording was wrong. And I agree, one simple explanation requiring few assumptions is that the plane was hijacked or bombed. And agre
187 hivue : Does that convention cover SAR? My point is that the RR/ACARS rumor has the plane still operating 5 hours after communications ceased. I can't rememb
188 rcair1 : In a case impacting lives - I think they do have that duty - particularly if a respected journalistic site is providing incorrect information. And I
189 hivue : The smaller the pieces the more likely that some will float. A seat cushion could likely identify the airplane. [Edit: sorry; missed your original po
190 jcxroberts : It sounded like DHS to me.
191 Post contains images flyingturtle : i didn't want to argue either. Your interpretation is also reasonable, but I rather go with Karl Popper who said that every theory should be refutabl
192 IADCA : I understand that, but if we're talking not that many pieces of, say, six inches on a side floating in what's known to be a fairly garbage-strewn are
193 giopan1975 : A fire burning for 4 hours with airplane flying I think is quite impossible.
194 Post contains images trex8 : Also in Chinese thats real bad, double death!
195 hivue : I have edited my original post. (I missed your point; sorry).
196 kmot : In the AirFrance accident, did they find any floating seat cushions? It would seem to me that those might be a few of the items along with luggage tha
197 cjg225 : That's something I am wondering, as well. But, without surface debris, where do you search if there is nothing directly below the last known point (o
198 seb146 : This has probably been covered so my apologies: The "black boxes" are supposed to give off signals until the battery runs out, right? Because American
199 Post contains links N328KF : ABC News is now providing information from the US Department of Defense that would seem to back up the WSJ's news from last night, and also contradict
200 trex8 : The lack of any debris being found in the areas being searched at this time really suggests the plane went far into the Indian ocean or South China se
201 BaconButty : I would argue: 1. The fact that RR haven't contradicted the Malaysian investigators who they claim are speaking on their behalf is confirmation enoug
202 FltAdmiralRitt : What....aren't folks fingers tired by now. I would think posting to A.net would have declined by now. I would like to point out that a Malicious Stewa
203 IADCA : Or it could have been Colonel Mustard, in the kitchen, with a pool cue. Your Randomly capitalized Post completely fails to take into account just abo
204 FltAdmiralRitt : IADCA You mean more ridiculous than. Malaysian Cover up Chinese Cover up Pirates Flying the plane to Somalia. flight computer becomes self aware, it i
205 Post contains links ThunderboltDrgn : http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-n...-flight-live-3236617#ixzz2vrJjpY7S Follow us: @DailyMirror on Twitter | DailyMirror on Facebook http://abcnews.
206 EnviableOne : According to ICAO RRs responsibility is to make the information available to the "Investigating Authority" which appears to be Malaysian department of
207 richierich : Well folks, it is hard to keep up with all of these posts. It seems that as the mystery deepens, a.net users turn to the keyboard in ever-increasing n
208 hivue : How about the SAR authority?
209 B747forever : Werent those reports deemed false this morning?
210 D L X : Hmm. This is interesting considering the particular asset that the US Military has in the Indian Ocean. In an odd way, this actually gives me a glimm
211 captainx : I wonder if the RR data will be able to tell if the 777 was flying while depressurized ... a change in bleed-air pressure. I tend to believe the plane
212 N328KF : The ACARS data report from WSJ was deemed as false by the Malaysians, but I think it would be premature to lend credence to that particular denial. T
213 ThunderboltDrgn : I don't know, the link to ABC news was just posted by both The Guardian and The Mirror so I would assume that it is pretty new info.
214 Post contains images hivue : It's bad when you can only trust official denials to the same extent you trust the rumors they are officially denying.[Edited 2014-03-13 09:14:49]
215 SQ452 : This is sounding more and more possible as time goes on and the search in the Gulf of Thailand turns up nothing. U.S. officials wouldn't come out wit
216 IADCA : I think trying to legitimize your theory by recycling the most outlandish theories thus far posted is not a particularly effective tactic. That's tru
217 Mouldypete : I am not an aviation expert nor have I read all of the comments in this hugely long thread (so apologies if I repeat something). Occam’s razor has b
218 Post contains links PanAm1971 : The US Navy is now entering the search in earnest. It looks like the US is taking over unofficially. http://www.theguardian.com/world/blo...-by-chines
219 Post contains images socalgeo : Here is my map of possible ranges for each hour of flying time, @500mph: Link to live map, you can explore....http://sandbox.maps.arcgis.com/apps/One
220 Post contains links spacecadet : I'm not sure about that, but one of the very first things they found (38 hours after the accident) was an airplane seat: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/
221 Post contains images Trin : The Malaysian officials seem absolutely determined to not get hemmed into a box via terminology - hence their blanket denials of all rumors with adde
222 neoshi : Hardly seems like a takeover nor entering in earnest. Those assets have been there for quite some time and we're really just moving on our own findin
223 N328KF : Well, here's a scenario that fits what we know. Malaysia is on record as saying there was no ACARS data after the transponder went off. What if there
224 PanAm1971 : Less than an hour ago we had another Malaysian pseudo denial that 370 had gone out over the Indian Ocean. Yet the US sources are now leaking that is
225 Trin : What? The aircraft being half-piloted towards the Malaysian peninsula, and crashing on land where nobody could see it and no primary radar could dete
226 SQ452 : Totally Agree. I would love to be a fly on the wall in that room at the Pentagon. I would not at all be surprised if they have lost confidence in the
227 SSTeve : It makes you wonder whether : "Have you heard about this RR data." "No!" ...gets translated into an emphatic denial that it exists at all. Sheesh thi
228 katekebo : We don't know if US Navy is moving a ship - ABC says so, but there has been no confirmation for the Navy. ABC says that they got the information from
229 PIKtoYEG : Watching Guy Norris, Senior Editor of Aviation Week on CNN right now 1015 MST) , with Richard Quest. For a brief moment, CNN actually has something wo
230 cjg225 : Could be just checking every feasible lead, which, at this point, includes the Indian Ocean. No reason to not follow it up, however unlikely it seems
231 SQ452 : They must have a pretty specific idea of where it went down like you said. But I would say that in the scenario of the NTSB, FAA, RR, Boeing, and the
232 spacecadet : Come on now. It's ABC. Just like the WSJ, they first of all have a large number of contacts within the US government. Second, if it were untrue, the
233 tim73 : China is acting like a bullyboy in South China Sea and the mutual distrust among the nine nations involved is quite an issue, especially when dealing
234 Post contains links katekebo : Let's don't give too much credence to the WSJ and ABC reports: 1) WSJ is the only one who claimed that ACARS were sent to RR for 4 additional hours of
235 spacecadet : You're comparing national news organizations with a local TV anchor.
236 slinky09 : I have no doubt that government agencies could, if they chose to, track such data messages.
237 peterjohns : Hello fellow Anetters. I have been following the thread since the beginning- and learnt absolutely nothing!! Richierich is right- I have been tempted
238 captainx : CNN says "SR. AVIATION SOURCE: No Engine Data indicating missing plane flew for hours."
239 hivue : As others have pointed out, USN, RR, and Boeing may feel they are not in a position to legally do this.
240 mcoatc : I have to wonder if US assets in Diego Garcia did most of the tracking here. RR ACARS data sounds much better than admitting to what we might have de
241 KIAS : ACARS is a datalink reporting system used by several aircraft systems to transmit data by VHF radio or SATCOM. Engine Health Monitoring (EHM) data on
242 COEWR787 : Dow e actually know that they are two really independent sources?
243 PIKtoYEG : Why? The engine manufacturers never comment in these scenarios lest anything affect their share price. And you don't seriously expect the US authorit
244 Trin : If that's the case, then the U.S. is going off some other kind of data other than 'Engine Data'. So - this could mean that they have been analyzing r
245 hivue : This aircraft never reached a gate. If RR gets their engine data by gatelink after the flight then that makes the story sound like just another groun
246 Post contains links spacecadet : Did you read the articles? They're about two different things that just happen to support each other. For anyone who doesn't believe the navy is movi
247 Post contains links ThunderboltDrgn : The Guardian now reports: http://www.theguardian.com/world/blo...tes#block-5321df8be4b0bde291cd076a[Edited 2014-03-13 10:00:26]
248 katekebo : When US Navy (or any other government or military authority) wants something to become public, they don't "leak" it to a specific news agency or outl
249 Post contains images 76er : Yes there is, although in this event I would change B) into this: B) all people except those on the flight deck lose consciousness How that is possib
250 VC315 : Is there a way we can have a sorted list of what Malaysian government / MAF / MH have been saying respectively since the accident? I think there are m
251 trex8 : CNN is saying Quest asked RR about the later data mentioned in WSJ and they denied it
252 DTW2HYD : Even if we consider situation similar to United 93 crash over shallow waters(200 ft), I would think wings and tail section will break off at water su
253 B-HOP : Did anyone feel fuel load mentioned say something, if its a five and a half hour flight, why then the Captain take an extra two hour worth of fuel and
254 captainx : Can all the transmitters on the plane be turned off from the cockpit - yes or no?
255 OTF : Sky News are also reporting the USS Kidd story now, quoting their sources as 'The Pentagon'
256 Post contains links SA7700 : Due to length this thread will be locked for further contributions. All posts added after the thread lock will be removed for housekeeping purposes on
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