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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21  
User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 26
Posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 72802 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

Due to length part 20 was locked for further contributions. Please feel free to continue your discussion in part 21.

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B777-200ER missing enroute KUL-PEK (by Longhornmaniac Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2 (by LipeGIG Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 3 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 7 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines 772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 8 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 11 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13 (by SA7700 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14 (by SA7700 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 16 (by SA7700 Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17 (by 777ER Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 20 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

A select few members have been making remarks towards others in the “Missing Malaysia Airlines 777 threads” for speculating about the fate of 9M-MRO, her crew and passengers. Given the fact that there is so much uncertainty going on at this stage, speculation is going to be a factor on this site and also at the biggest and greatest news corporations of the globe. At least until we all have a clearer picture. Is it a perfect situation – certainly not? That being said, we need to stay dynamic in a possible fast-changing situation.

It is not unique to this incident and if we go back in history and trace remarkable aviation events we will see that speculation has been an aspect, essential to some healthy debate. It is not the intention of the moderators to stifle the opinions of members that fall within the rules-and regulations of airliners.net. All that we kindly request from all our members is to stay within the site’s parameters. Please be respectful towards one another and let us all hope for the best possible outcome.


PLEASE KEEP IN MIND:


**** Out of respect to the crew, passengers and also family members; close to those onboard MH370; could we please keep science fiction theories and content related to possible future movie rights out of these threads? ****

**** Please do not repeat questions and scenarios that were covered and discussed in previous threads and which do not contribute in a constructive manner towards the real topic any longer. ****

**** Please make an effort to read through some of the threads, if possible the latest in the series, before adding your own comments and theories to the current, active thread on this issue. ****

**** Once again please be respectful towards other users and keep the forum rules and regulations in mind when posting in the forums. Should there be any rule violations, please bring this to the attention of the moderators by making use of the “suggest deletion function”. ****



Enjoy the forums!

Regards and thanks for your co-operation,

SA7700


When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
402 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline456 From Netherlands, joined Feb 2001, 328 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 72911 times:

Also the moderators stopped posting the latest facts in the openings post anymore, afraid that they are changing during the time the thread is open?
 


User currently offlinelaxboeingman From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 543 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 72908 times:

I asked this in the previous thread, but I will repost:

I was watching CNN and thought of this question. I apologize if it has been asked before, but I do not think this exact one was asked before. What if all of the communications and satellite equipment just died - due to mechanical issues - and the pilots got turned around to the point where they were running out of fuel and tried to land safely in the water, but failed to do it safely?



The real American classics: LAX and Boeing.
User currently offlineBruceSmith From South Africa, joined May 2011, 47 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 72862 times:

Quoting BoeingBear (Reply 244):
Okay, my hat's off to you -- this is actually one of the best creative-but-not-outrageous theories I've seen in the twenty MH370 threads to date (which is an accomplishment!). But I'm pretty sure each radio stack is on a separate bus. Otherwise, that kind of kills the whole idea of system redundancy. Moreover, the idea of asphyxiation due to smoke inhalation goes in the same bucket with hypoxia -- the crew are trained for it and would instantly reach for their oxygen masks. But you do get points for a well-thought-out chain of events ... nice!

Thanks, I know it is somewhat out there, but not as far out there as some. And with no knowledge of the redundancy of the power buses and radio stacks, one has to guess.

Regarding the asphyxiation, MS 667's fire involved the hoses to the F/O's oxygen mask. They are rubber hoses and can burn through.


User currently offlinelaxboeingman From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 543 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 72715 times:

Quoting 456 (Reply 1):
Also the moderators stopped posting the latest facts in the openings post anymore, afraid that they are changing during the time the thread is open?

Probably because they are not chaining, unfortunately.



The real American classics: LAX and Boeing.
User currently offline7BOEING7 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 1551 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 72378 times:

Quoting Trin (Reply 246):
The one thing I find unbearable is the thought that there could still be some survivors out there clinging to life rafts, just waiting to be found

If the airplane did ditch it probably would have been found by now as slide/rafts come with survival equipment which includes an ELT if the airline will be engaged in long over water flights.


User currently offlineIADCA From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1274 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 72234 times:

Quoting rightrudder (Reply 266):


Quoting deconz (Reply 248):
I suggest you check your facts before commenting my friend. The flight departed KUL at 00:41 on the morning of Saturday 08 March!

That's all I'm asking. By what facts are you basing this from?

I posted four links from four different sources, including the airline itself, stating that the flight and disappearance were on March 8. Read Reply 247 in the last thread.

Here is the original MH press release on the incident: The source for this is http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/my/en/site/dark-site.html - then go to the earliest page at the bottom (at the moment, page 17).

"Saturday, March 08, 07:30 AM MYT +0800 Media Statement - MH370 Incident released at 7.24am

Sepang, 8 March 2014: Malaysia Airlines confirms that flight MH370 has lost contact with Subang Air Traffic Control at 2.40am, today (8 March 2014).

Flight MH370, operated on the B777-200 aircraft, departed Kuala Lumpur at 12.41am on 8 March 2014. MH370 was expected to land in Beijing at 6.30am the same day. The flight was carrying a total number of 227 passengers (including 2 infants), 12 crew members.

Malaysia Airlines is currently working with the authorities who have activated their Search and Rescue team to locate the aircraft.

The airline will provide regular updates on the situation. Meanwhile, the families may contact +603 7884 1234 for further info."

I'm trying to be polite, but this is an absolutely insane point you're trying to make. You're wrong to assert the flight took place on any date other than March 8. At that time, it was still March 7 in much of the world because of time zones, but it was the March 8 flight in Malaysia.


User currently offlineDTW2HYD From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 1886 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 72017 times:

Here is a video of primary radar display. If you are watching real time you will see the blip(target) moving. Same with replays. Based on the signature(blip size, how fast it is moving) experts can tell what kind of aircraft it is with relative confidence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dp4CyShpjpI

CNN just got delivery of Malaysia 777 model, transponder and Data Recorder. Things are heating up.


User currently offline456 From Netherlands, joined Feb 2001, 328 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 71786 times:

Quoting IADCA (Reply 6):
I posted four links from four different sources, including the airline itself, stating that the flight and disappearance were on March 8. Read Reply 247 in the last thread.

You can also refer to the very very very first post in thread number 1 of this topic
MH370 Malaysian Airlines B777-200ER missing enroute KUL-PEK (by Longhornmaniac Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)


User currently offlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 2985 posts, RR: 28
Reply 9, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 71541 times:

Transferred from previous thread:


Quoting aftgaffe (Reply 222):
10 bucks says Malaysia did not come up with this detailed list

And your evidence for this is what? The US Navy has stated that it deployed USS Kidd to a specific area of the Malacca Straits "at the request of the Malaysian authorities".

Quoting Trin (Reply 226):
And still news sources fail to understand pings from ACARS messages and the like.

   SATCOM pings are not ACARS data.

Quoting captainx (Reply 242):
Networks "ping" and radars have "blips" or "returns."
  


But, assuming that the reports of SATCOM pings continuing but ACARS data not being transmitted are accurate, this suggests that ACARS was somehow disabled (by a person or a failure) in some way other than by disabling SATCOM - interesting!

Question (for Mandala499) - are SATCOM pings transmissible through water (for example if the aircraft was submerged in shallow water)?



Empty vessels make the most noise.
User currently offlineIslandRob From US Virgin Islands, joined Apr 2011, 142 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 71612 times:

Andy Pasztor of the Wall Street Journal now reporting that US officials are now exploring the possibility that MH370 in fact landed somewhere rather than crashing. This has always been a point of speculation, but it appears the US Govt is now taking it more seriously.


If you wrote me off I'd understand it, Because I've been on some other planet, So come pick me up... I've landed
User currently offlineaftgaffe From United States of America, joined Mar 2014, 174 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 71614 times:
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Jay Carney paused and seemingly chose his words very carefully with regard to characterizing the pax. See at 1:10 mark. http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...8051b8b52d06_story.html?tid=pm_pop

Full-blown speculation mode here but it was almost as if he knew something about the pax' fate and had to pull himself back from revealing it unintentionally.

Or I need some sleep. In all events, I'm fully aware this well could be nothing. But circumstantial evidence is mounting that officials know significantly more than they are sharing.


User currently offlinenm2582 From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 124 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 71359 times:

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 7):
CNN just got delivery of Malaysia 777 model, transponder and Data Recorder. Things are heating up.

Are you saying that CNN just came into the possession of a FDR and CVR which are believed to be from a 777 owned by Malaysian Airlines? Source??


User currently offline345tas From Israel, joined Mar 2014, 37 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 71139 times:

US officials believe ACARS was shut down ten minutes before the transponder.

"Two U.S. officials tell ABC News the U.S. believes that the shutdown of two communication systems happened separately on Malaysia Airlines Flight 370. One source said this indicates the plane did not come out of the sky because of a catastrophic failure."

http://abcnews.go.com/International/...hed-indian-ocean/story?id=22894802

If it weren't for US leaks (assuming they are correct), what would we know?

[Edited 2014-03-13 15:24:45]

User currently offlineKIAS From United States of America, joined Mar 2014, 70 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 71080 times:

Quote:
"Information has come to light that may indicate that there's a possibility ... that there was some sort of decompression of the oxygen system on the aircraft, incapacitating not only the crew, but the passengers, and the plane continued to fly for several hours," said Hall. http://thelead.blogs.cnn.com/2014/03...ave-flown-long-after-last-contact/


I personally do not subscribe to the hijiacking theories. I think we will learn this was a catastrophic event which may have also involved the electrical systems.



"We fly, but we have not 'conquered' the air. When we presume mastery, we are often startled by our ignorance." - DHW
User currently offlinehivue From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 1071 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 71036 times:

Quoting nm2582 (Reply 12):
Are you saying that CNN just came into the possession of a FDR and CVR which are believed to be from a 777 owned by Malaysian Airlines? Source??

I think he was talking about props.


User currently offlinegosimeon From Ireland, joined Jan 2008, 663 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 71131 times:

ABC News reporting that communication systems did not all shut down at once, which apparently can lead the US military to believe this wasn't a catastrophic incident:

"Two U.S. officials tell ABC News the U.S. believes that the shutdown of two communication systems happened separately on Malaysia Airlines Flight 370. One source said this indicates the plane did not come out of the sky because of a catastrophic failure.

The data reporting system, they believe, was shut down 1:07 a.m. The transponder -- which transmits location and altitude -- shut down at 1:21 a.m."

http://abcnews.go.com/International/...hed-indian-ocean/story?id=22894802

Man I hope they find the plane tonight/tomorrow. This is all very baffling...


User currently offlineFltAdmiralRitt From United States of America, joined Apr 2013, 44 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 70765 times:

If there were survivors they are not on a life raft from the A/C
they would be on pieces of the aircraft, but we are nearing the end of
possible survivors from that scenario.

The scenario would involve at ditch and break up and thereafter the big sections of the A/C
sinking to the bottom pretty fast. I wont go into details for obvious reasons.


User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17065 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 70570 times:

Quoting gosimeon (Reply 16):
The data reporting system, they believe, was shut down 1:07 a.m. The transponder -- which transmits location and altitude -- shut down at 1:21 a.m."

Why would the shut down of the two systems be separated by more than 10 minutes?



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlinehivue From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 1071 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 70588 times:

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 9):
But, assuming that the reports of SATCOM pings continuing but ACARS data not being transmitted are accurate, this suggests that ACARS was somehow disabled (by a person or a failure) in some way other than by disabling SATCOM - interesting!

Plus it has been mentioned earlier that the CBs for SATCOM are not on the flight deck but in the EE bay.


User currently offline456 From Netherlands, joined Feb 2001, 328 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 70331 times:

I do see something repetative is going on:
The last 3 days, all 'new' information is coming during nighttime/sunset in malaysia. Where I would expect new facts during daylight of malaysia.
To be honest, i have to see what is true about the latest abc news...


User currently offlinejcxroberts From United States of America, joined Mar 2014, 87 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 70286 times:

So where would they have landed, if they did ?

User currently offlinecuban8 From Kiribati, joined Sep 2009, 269 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 70080 times:

Based on the information we have received and if the information about the aircraft flying for another 4 hours after disappearance is true; there is only one option left and that is hi-jacking either by passenger or crew. Looking at the search area of Malaysia, US and India, it seems to be supporting the fact that the aircraft actually flew for quite some more time after last contact.

You can exclude the other options quite easily according to me.
- A flight would never last 4 hours with a serious malfunction without being able to recover, land at nearest airport or notify ATC.
- Being shot down, abducted or hit by an UFO doesn't seem plausible either since no wreckage found in the area where lost (and of course we assume they flew for another few hours).
- Suicide I think is highly unlikely. Why fly for another 4 hours to commit suicide? Why turn off the transponder?
- Piracy is not likely either. Where would they go/land and how would they hide such a big aircraft and for what reason? (On top of that, no phone calls or messages has been sent from passengers and no demands from the "pirates" so far).

This is what leads me to believe this was a hi-jacking gone wrong. While the hi-jacker(s) might be either of the flight crew; it doesn't take too much time to learn what communication systems an aircraft have or what actions would be taken by a flight-crew in case of a hi-jacking. The person may even have been invited to the flight deck.

For sure time will tell, but I do believe that some information is withheld from the public which just fuels the speculation in media and among the public for no reason....

[Edited 2014-03-13 15:39:47]

User currently offlinerightrudder From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 158 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 69439 times:

This is what I have on the scheduled departure date 2:51AM MYT 7MAR14. Just sayin... http://flightaware.com/live/flight/M...0/history/20140306/1635Z/WMKK/ZBAA

Quoting IADCA (Reply 6):

I posted four links from four different sources, including the airline itself, stating that the flight and disappearance were on March 8. Read Reply 247 in the last thread.

Here is the original MH press release on the incident: The source for this is http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/my/en/site/dark-site.html - then go to the earliest page at the bottom (at the moment, page 17).

"Saturday, March 08, 07:30 AM MYT 0800 Media Statement - MH370 Incident released at 7.24am

Sepang, 8 March 2014: Malaysia Airlines confirms that flight MH370 has lost contact with Subang Air Traffic Control at 2.40am, today (8 March 2014). BTW, that link does not state anything else than when they retired the flight number.

Flight MH370, operated on the B777-200 aircraft, departed Kuala Lumpur at 12.41am on 8 March 2014. MH370 was expected to land in Beijing at 6.30am the same day. The flight was carrying a total number of 227 passengers (including 2 infants), 12 crew members.

Malaysia Airlines is currently working with the authorities who have activated their Search and Rescue team to locate the aircraft.

The airline will provide regular updates on the situation. Meanwhile, the families may contact 603 7884 1234 for further info."

I'm trying to be polite, but this is an absolutely insane point you're trying to make. You're wrong to assert the flight took place on any date other than March 8. At that time, it was still March 7 in much of the world because of time zones, but it was the March 8 flight in Malaysia.

March 8th by what time zone? Malaysian time or another zone? Flight Awares indicates otherwise. http://flightaware.com/live/flight/M...0/history/20140306/1635Z/WMKK/ZBAA Departure date is set by departure origin. BTW, that link does not indicate anything else than that MH370 will be retired to MH318.

[Edited 2014-03-13 15:38:43]


"Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana".
User currently offlinehivue From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 1071 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 69439 times:

Quoting cuban8 (Reply 22):
I do believe that some information is withheld from the public which just fuels the speculation in media and among the public for no reason....

If it's a possible security/terrorist issue the authorities have a very good reason.


25 B747forever : Because you want to make sure so that the wreckage is never found.
26 Post contains images MtnWest1979 : US govt operative overtook flight and it is now sitting ai Diego Garcia. Reason being high level terrorist on board who is detained for information. M
27 nm2582 : Based on some of the recent reports that the satellite communication (which took place for a few hours) from MH370 contained no actual data but was ra
28 aftgaffe : What time was "all right good night" and what sort of warning does flight deck get if ACARS fails?
29 Post contains links IADCA : You've got to be kidding. Malaysian time. The time zone in KUL is UTC plus 8. As for your flightaware link, you linked to the wrong day. Look at 3/8,
30 deconz : Malaysian of course. That link is to the MH370 the day prior ... that's why it says "landed"!!!
31 rcair1 : New Sanity Check. A slight update to the sanity check I did in thread 16. Been trying to do this for 12 hrs - I can't keep up with the rumors, The fac
32 KIAS : 9M-MRO is a modern aircraft, but one with a lot of use. 53,465 hours & 7525 cycles. Taking a good look at the maintenance records is a more logica
33 solarflyer22 : You know I looked at as much passenger info as I could get and I just didn't see it happening. How would the passengers even know how to turn off the
34 456 : Awesome. Thanks!
35 katekebo : If the shutdown of communication systems (ACARS, transponder, etc.) occurred sequentially over several minutes it could indicate a progressively worse
36 BruceSmith : The SATCOM/VHF/HF radios are all discrete avionics blocks and are separate from the avionics blocks generating the message traffic on the radio signal
37 rightrudder : I stand corrected. Thank you for the explanation.
38 Post contains links BooDog : Tomnod just put out EXACT image locations and all hits with associated pictures in a kmz (Google Earth) file for those who are interested. http://bit.
39 DTW2HYD : No way, they got hold of some model plane/recorder to enlighten viewers. I may be wrong but the transponder they are showing may be from a Cessna.
40 aftgaffe : Provided that the captain's "all right good night" to Malaysian ATC came after ACARS failed. I'm not sure but I thought it came right before the tran
41 IADCA : Reading comprehension is a key skill.
42 rightrudder : So is prescribing vision glasses.
43 stasisLAX : But that doesn't answer why there was engine information data bursts sent via satellite to Rolls Royce for four or five HOURS after the transponder w
44 nm2582 : Ok. I thought your statement meant they were CVR/FDR's from the 777 model of aircraft. That would have been an incredible announcement.
45 flyenthu : I don't know if this is already posted.... Looks like the two transponders went off separately and not at once, thus indicating not a catastrophic sys
46 ROSWELL41 : My guess is that this was a pilot suicide perpetrated by the captain. The loss of the transponder, no distress call and the inability to find any wrec
47 FltAdmiralRitt : Just rewatched the Swissair 111. Accident Investigation. One thing clearly stands out. A fast impact with the ocean will leave few pieces larger than
48 difrano789 : Hi all, After years reading this forum I decided to join, sorry for my spelling English it’s not my mother language. I have more speculation that ha
49 456 : Btw- pretty scary to realize that when the plane was missing by the authorities, the plane was still flying somewhere... (IF the plane has flown for 4
50 davs5032 : I believe it was at 1:21 if I remember correctly.
51 rcair1 : There were not - please read the section of my post. Can you provide a source. How 'seperately' in time? Seconds? Minutes? How do they know? - You do
52 flyenthu : 1:07AM : Data reporting system shuts down 1:21 AM: Transponder shuts down ABC News Report
53 DTW2HYD : They are saying ACARS(Data Reporting System) went down @1:07AM and Transponders @1:21AM. That could indicate electric fire.
54 TXspotter : In there anyway to see a wiring diagram of the 777, even a basic layout of where the wires physical run? You could find where the all these failed sys
55 456 : I can imagine that when there are 2 (if!) transponders, they are also not on the same electrical power because of the redundency. And IF there was an
56 flyenthu : My Reply 52 is right off TV screen. Disregard #45.
57 captainx : A fire, and then it flies on for 4-5 hours ... no way.
58 Dalavia : Are they really saying that ACARS(Data Reporting System) went down @1:07AM? I thought they simply said that the last ACARS message was received (or m
59 rcair1 : Incorrect. 1:07am - last transmission from ACARS. But ACAR's transmissions are not continuous - so this does not mean ACARS shut down, just that this
60 liquidair : but... The acars... Shut down before the captain signed off from the ATC? Eh? If true, that really only leaves two possibilities. But, there are two
61 Post contains links ukair : the daily mail is reporting that the FAA issued a warning about a flaw in some 777's to quote .. ' In an ‘airworthiness directive’ (AD) dated Sept
62 ROSWELL41 : I have not yet read any plausible scenario for mechanical failure. A hijacking would provide enough time to get out some type of distress signal. This
63 davidzill : A simple possibility maybe...a slowly professing fire in the electronics bay...is there boxes for the transponders and VHF radios in the Avionics bay
64 Wingtips56 : It's been around and around and around in these threads: it does not apply to this aircraft as it had different antennae configurations.
65 Post contains images 456 : Yep and mentioned several times already in this thread ) But this was not applicable for this 772.
66 captainx : Shutting off ACARS is like shutting off your PC ... the network (ISP) sees this but the ISP network link to your modem and router is still active.[Edi
67 tyler81190 : Been discussed, does not apply to this aircraft, as it uses a different antenna. Why assuming just the Captain? It could be the FO, it COULD also be
68 flyenthu : I literally copied this right off the TV screen. This was on CNN, and they were citing ABC. I left out the text within paren.
69 nick33326 : This is my first post, though I've been a reader here for years. While I'm growing more convinced that the plane has been landed somewhere, if they ex
70 777Jet : Until the WSJ itself comes out and claims that the information regarding the engine monitoring data was incorrect, I will go with the idea that MAS an
71 William60 : Been lurking, and now a member. Have learned a lot the past few days and my hat goes off to the many fine thinkers and posters here. Impressive, and i
72 mcoatc : And this same fire wouldn't create other faults that might generate an ACARS message prior to that system being disabled itself? The fire would have
73 Post contains links KIAS : Worth mentioning that just 3 days ago, Air India 127 (a 777-300ER) had its transponder fail 3 hours en route to Chicago. The aircraft turned back to
74 flyenthu : Also, this information #52, it appears is from Malaysian authorities, not US. May be with US assistance, but US is not apparently directly releasing t
75 777Jet : Exactly. The plane did not go missing like MH370...
76 Post contains links chrcaremanav : Hi! Here is an article from Mr Ben Sandilands, what I like about Him, is that He is does not chew His words. http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalk...us
77 Post contains images socalgeo : Here is a map with airfield locations: I pulled the locations off of the interweb, so they are probably not complete... link to live map:http://sandb
78 KIAS : My point was merely to suggest these things can happen. Combined with another issue - be it fire, structural failure, engine failure - which could be
79 ROSWELL41 : This is key. Losing the transponder and having no further VHF or HF communications points to an act done intentionally. The way aircraft systems are
80 tyler81190 : But does this include abandoned airports? Also, if it were a planned incident, they could have built a rudimentary lading strip somewhere...
81 LXLucien : Posted this already in the last thread, but does anybody know how many Satellite Telephones there are on board the MH 777 ? Every Seat? Only in the Ga
82 ROSWELL41 : Fair enough. I can't prove any of this. My only speculation that it would be the captain is due to his greater experience on the 777, in flying in ge
83 Viscount724 : A suicidal pilot could have depressurized the aircraft (after locking the other pilot out of the cockpit when he left to use the lavatory) and when t
84 socalgeo : Nope, but I'm working on it.... But I'm sure that the US Navy already has them loaded up on their systems.... Still, there isnt alot of options out t
85 Post contains links and images CheezWhiz : Hello all, I was browsing through images on the Tomnod website last night and stumbled across images of 3 objects that looked more interesting than th
86 teo747 : Without anyone noticing? This isn't a James Bond movie in which they can land a huge airliner and taxi it into the underground volcano lair. With all
87 Post contains links trex8 : As pointed out by someone in the previous thread WSJ are backtracking. There was no engine data sent, just attempts at establishing a data link as ot
88 s5daw : Flightradar has data till 1:21, meaning ADS-B was transmitting till then. Actually this is the best and only factual data the public has. Everything
89 456 : Hi CheezWhiz, welcome to you! To me all photos contain ships.[Edited 2014-03-13 16:44:33]
90 OTF : They look like boats, maybe fishing trawlers to me?
91 Snowjob : Long time a.net member but first time forum poster. Firstly, thanks for letting me be part of this community....99% of the time i just like browsing t
92 philask : If it was a fire then it's not unreasonable to think that the fire could take out the communication links between sensors and the ADS-B unit which wo
93 777Jet : I understand. I was just suggesting that if a faulty transponder was the only problem then this story wouldn't be news. Sorry, I missed that. I wonde
94 Post contains images CheezWhiz : Yes, the images could be ships. I've seen a lot of ships in the Tomnod imagery, however most of them appeared larger and more well-defined. Edit: ...
95 s5daw : All right! And probably we can rule out: - hypoxia, as it wouldn't cause the altitude to drop to 0 - manual pilot intervention / hijacking, as there'
96 PIKtoYEG : Have the NTSB confirmed who the Lead Investigator is for MH370?
97 lweber557 : Not sure if my theory has been brought up yet but I'm not reading through 20+ threads to see if it was. In some kind of freak error chain the aircraft
98 Post contains links and images flyingturtle : Thank you, rcair1, for updating your already excellent summary! So we have a development here - that ACARS and the transponder quitted at different ti
99 questions : Has any source indicated the estimated maximum flying time based on the amount of fuel the aircraft had?
100 trex8 : IIRC someone explained in one of the first threads on the first day if there is no ADSB data sent you could get a zero altitude
101 tyler81190 : While this may not be James Bond, it could be that the people responsible for monitoring such surveillance could be in on whatever is going on. Also,
102 OTF : I think it was mentioned they had enough fuel to fly to PEK plus another 2 hours flying time.
103 cjg225 : I've thought about that, as well, but I just can't see there being a "soft" landing like that where no one gets out without flotation devices.
104 hivue : Unless the plane made it to Hawaii and then crashed the NTSB will not lead the investigation (unless asked to by the country in whose territory the p
105 Post contains links flyingturtle : Food for thought, and possibly also eye candy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCZRwv_568Y IF the 777 has landed somewhere, it just needed a reasonably
106 MillwallSean : What id like to know is, for those that are mechanics etc, what scenarios sees a gradual destruction of equipment allowing one communication system to
107 YULWinterSkies : At least your speculation is simple. And there would still be several hours until sunrise for possible floating broken pieces to sink and go unnotice
108 hamiltondaniel : I have seen a few of these so far, and while I cannot claim any kind of certainty, I believe them to be whales. The size is right, the shape is right
109 hivue : For killing 200+ innocent people when they could have followed the plane until an obvious target was apparent?
110 Post contains images Starlionblue : Good morning a.nutters! My, my but isn't this still interesting. Day seven! On a side note, I wonder how many new subscriptions a.nut is getting. Happ
111 savethequads : I am an aerospace engineer. I don't know that much about the 772 in particular, I have never worked on it. I'm quite familiar with how Boeing builds t
112 Post contains images NWAROOSTER : I thought that after 9/11, that it was mandated that the transponders could not be turned off while the aircraft is in the air mode. This includes pul
113 Tangowhisky : There is a new Wall Street Journal article this evening indicating that there was 4 more hours of some sort of maintenance communication the aircraft
114 iberiadc852 : About ACARS and transponder being shut at different times. (1:07 and 1:21, I have read) When was the ATC last communication with pilot?. Was it before
115 s5daw : But that makes no sense. If data package is not sent, why would it be in the database and why would location, heading and speed be there? I'm not an
116 teo747 : But surely there are multiple entities looking at this data - we've already seen satellite data provided by the US (Tomnod) and China (suspected debr
117 Post contains images cjg225 : Or the Marianas or Guam or American Samoa.... I think what people are talking about is a very, very steep high-velocity impact, whereas AF 447 struck
118 suseJ772 : I know this has been asked a bunch, but I have yet to see an answer, but has there been any official disclosure about how much fuel was actually loade
119 Starlionblue : The NTSB will not be leading this investigation as it didn't happen on US territory, except I think if it was over international waters and Malaysia
120 hivue : I think you mean to cut off SATCOM, right? No. As I said it took one each. If the plane flew on till it ran out of gas, surely ACARS would have somet
121 teo747 : But what motivation does the Chinese government have to undertake such a ridiculously elaborate plot to steal a 777 and cover it up, when its own cou
122 Post contains images hivue : Correct. I guess I'm geographically challenged.
123 suseJ772 : This is a great map.
124 DBCooper : So if ACARS and the transponder were switched off...chances are the CVR and FDR were also switched off (I know you can switch the CVR off - less clear
125 Starlionblue : Scroll up. Text search previous posts. Scroll up. Text search previous posts. You'd still get debris. When the wings hit the water every the rear hal
126 hamiltondaniel : Come on guys. For what motive? This is not a spy thriller. 239 people are very likely dead. As has been stated over and over above, what does China w
127 cjg225 : I don't think anyone is saying there would be no pieces left.
128 Post contains images Starlionblue : No I mean ACARS, but it doesn't matter. ACARS and SATCOM are two different "boxes". ACARS compiles information, and then sends it with SATCOM (in thi
129 fotoflyer71 : s5daw, apologies for hijacking your point, but something that has been on my mind during all this is my understanding that ADS-B does not guarantee a
130 nupogodi : Likely the receiver did not get the full ADS-B data. Maybe the transponder was shut off during the broadcast and did not send it out, maybe the recei
131 suseJ772 : I said it before, I'll say it again. Reverse engineering. And before the other responses get brought up: 1) yes they have access to China Southern's,
132 trex8 : And they have the resources to buy a brand new one and park it somewhere for ever and never use it. Unless they are going to use the plane and the de
133 Western727 : Thank you. There is nothing "state-of-the-art and secret" about a 772ER model used in the hundreds all over the world.
134 DTW2HYD : If it crashed over land in China and they just cleaned up and planted trees. That's a possibility. They don't like a blemish on their aviation safety
135 777Jet : Interesting. I have a feeling the plane made it a lot farther than MAS and the current SAR think... I think it would be hard to do at night. If they
136 captainx : One pilot could not both fly the plane and go pull the ACARS breaker which is below-deck, below the gally (and not easy to quickly get to) per a 777 p
137 hivue : From KIAS's post 40 in the previous part: "Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 8): If you just pull the CB's for the VHF, HF, and SATCOM which I believe are loca
138 suseJ772 : Easy now. I think I have kept a tone of recognizing the theory is a bit out there, and have provided answers to reasonable questions. You don't need
139 nupogodi : On PPRuNe a 777 pilot mentioned that you can simply turn on/off various ACARS broadcasting modes (VHF/HF/SATCOM) from the computer right there in the
140 Dalavia : Whatever the outcome of this mystery, I don't buy the reverse engineering argument. This is for many reasons, not the least of which is that this air
141 hamiltondaniel : Reverse engineering of WHAT? This is not a B2 bomber we're talking about here. This is a 15-year old design for a long-haul airliner. The technology
142 Post contains links nupogodi : Buy one. They sell them, you know. Here's a bargain: http://www.controller.com/listingsde.../2001-BOEING-777-200ER/1314333.htm 52 million! China's go
143 suseJ772 : It isn't about being state of the art and secret. It is about having the time to disemsemable it and re-engineer it. It takes decades. I'll say it ag
144 hivue : No. If the engines are fuel starved I'm assuming that ACARS/EHM would phone home with that info.[Edited 2014-03-13 17:46:12]
145 hamiltondaniel : Hijacking an entire airplane full of people doesn't raise questions? Come on. Consider the cost-benefit analysis here. Benefits: Well, maybe you lear
146 hivue : But to stop SATCOM from pinging you would need to pull the breaker, right?
147 777Jet : I would suspect they would at least want to fly for long enough (30 mins+) for the CVR to write over itself to get rid of any verbal evidence. Or, if
148 teo747 : They could just say that one of the existing 777s had a major mechanical failure and has been written off if they wanted to get one to study. Or buy
149 Starlionblue : Ah thx. But that's my point. To disable ACARS you have to pull either the ACARS box/CB, or the SATCOM CB. This pilot seems to be thinking in terms of
150 Western727 : I agree with you that it takes decades...which is why "covertly stealing" a 772ER of 15 year-old tech and creating an international incident makes no
151 nupogodi : Cutting power to the system would do it for sure. It didn't stop pinging though.
152 ranold76 : Hello A.net, I've been a lurker for many years, but this event and the discussion on here about it, influenced me in signing up. I don't have have a t
153 FoxBravo : The more I read, the more likely it seems that this was a deliberate act. Whether it was an elaborate suicide by one of the pilots (with an effort to
154 suseJ772 : So you're saying that a Comac is equal to a 777. I disagree. I am not saying it is more advanced than anything from Boeing or Airbus. I am saying tha
155 nupogodi : Why? Who would be suspicious about the Chinese government buying a 777? They have an air force! They already own Canadian and American aircraft!
156 Starlionblue : On your typical airliner the weather radar is inside the actual nose cone and the pitot-static sensors (speed, altitude) plus the stall sensors sort
157 hivue : That's precisely my point. ACARS may have been cut off but SATCOM was not.
158 MSY-MSP : I for one think the Socotra idea is a very interesting one. Based on the socalgeo posted, it fits with a lot of the information that is out there. If
159 suseJ772 : I will freely admit that my crazy Chinese espionage theory would completely change if I knew they had enough fuel to make it to Iran via a roundabout
160 hivue : But see this from post 139 above: But you need to pull the CB in the EE bay to stop SATCOM from pinging.
161 nupogodi : I see what you are saying. Disabling the transmission of ACARS over SATCOM from the flight computer, I assume, would not power down the actual SATCOM
162 suseJ772 : You're not putting both events together. Chinese government buying a 777 isn't suspicious. Not in the least. The Chinese government buying a 777 that
163 hivue : He might have wanted to... or else didn't know about SATCOM staying alive.[Edited 2014-03-13 17:56:36]
164 Starlionblue : Yes but you also said: I'd love to hear a 777 pilot we "know" mention it here. I don't put a lot of faith in CNN pr PPRune. In any case, it doesn't m
165 tyler81190 : I would not be surprised should it be discovered at the bottom of the ocean... But I also would not be surprised if it is found intact at some kind o
166 bajamatic : There are easier ways to achieve this than taking a mid-flight commercial airliner carrying 230 souls. I don't rule out espionage, but I think the pl
167 Post contains links redflyer : Suicides don't always happen spontaneously at the point of starting the act. Some people have doubts and debate it in their minds while standing on a
168 hivue : Crawling into the EE bay would be difficult if you're also trying to fly a 777 and not be noticed. So you can shut off the transponder and ACARS (and
169 DTW2HYD : If China wants to reverse engineer a 777 component, they just need to bid on that component, convince Boeing they can manufacture it, get the contrac
170 nupogodi : I doubt he would, assuming we are talking about a career pilot. That's a kind of low-level networking detail that would have zero impact on operating
171 trex8 : Didn't the VIP 767 the CIA bugged never get used or seen much since? They assembled the MD80, they are building the A320, they will probably be outfi
172 Viscount724 : A live CNN report just said a senior U.S. defence department official at the Pentagon stated a few minutes ago he believes it's highly probable the a
173 nupogodi : I believe the minimum legal requirement is 30 minutes. I looked up some previous NTSB reports on aircraft of a similar vintage/sophistication and a l
174 coolian2 : Honestly, with all due respect, your wild suspicions of China and Iran suggest paranoia rather than any rational conclusion. Apologies if I've bugger
175 Tangowhisky : You mind pointing me to it? I don't see anything about the new article that was published in the WSJ after 7 PM EDT. "Jetliner 'Pinged' Satellites Wi
176 nupogodi : Meh. Autopilot. They were at cruise.
177 777Jet : Highly probable? Big words... It is possible though... If it did crash near its last known location and sank pretty much intact, I would assume that
178 Post contains links combatshadow : Civil Air Patrol will now be adding expertise in the search with their Radar Analysis Team. http://www.capvolunteernow.com/today...an_airliner&sho
179 phantomx18 : Do we have ANY information on the 20 passengers employed by the technology company? What specific jobs they were assigned to? Anything secret/classifi
180 hivue : Flying back across the Malay peninsula trying not to be noticed? For the record, I think this airplane is sitting on the bottom of the Gulf of Thaila
181 Post contains links 7BOEING7 : Only the SATCOM, VHF/HF are in the cockpit. http://www.meriweather.com/flightdeck/777/aft/break-l.html
182 tyler81190 : If espionage was not the goal, then maybe the plane was just a tool, to be used at a later time? Perhaps explains why no one has claimed responsibili
183 Wingtips56 : Well, China (COMAC) does appear to be reverse-engineering an ancient Douglas DC-9 for their ARJ21. And we can see how well that is going. So maybe the
184 Post contains images bajamatic : Now THIS looks like a plane..... From Tomnod
185 Indy : What if this was a hijacking and the plane got shot down? Maybe the responsible government doesn't want to admit that it just killed over 200 people.
186 nupogodi : Yeah? The last primary radar contact of the UFO was at FL295. Just changed the heading and altitude and cruised. Consider this sequence of events: 1.
187 cedarjet : Latest from BBC: "In an echo of claims made in the Wall Street Journal earlier on Thursday that the plane transmitted engine data for hours after the
188 777Jet : I thought the same and it is not too far fetched. How many commercial aircraft and pilots are out there? A lot! It would only take one rogue person t
189 tyler81190 : An old plane... Not the straight wing, all modern jets have a swept-wing design.
190 N328KF : Why do they need to do that, when they have the tooling? Or a C-130 in flight.
191 Post contains images hivue : You'll have to point out the SATCOM breaker to me (I think I may need to stop staring at a computer screen for a while. )
192 hivue : I agree. We're on the same page after all.
193 tyler81190 : Like I said.. OLD haha the C-130 is not a new design. But I did not think of a C-130 perhaps looking for the doomed aircraft as a possibility.
194 Tangowhisky : Yes. The Aircraft Health Monitoring system.
195 suseJ772 : I am really not a paranoid person. I just recognize that espionage, both state and corporate, is a real thing in this world, and at this time, those
196 imagoagnitio : yep looks like an early C-130 Herc, defo not a B772
197 rcair1 : Re ACARS being shut off first.... I understand the CNN reported that "ACARS was shut off before the transponder" That is incorrect - the last transmis
198 Trin : That sounds like what happened, then. SATCOM was obviously still powered and running, but ACARS and the transponder were offline. That would be the p
199 nupogodi : Heh, that could be a SAR aircraft.
200 tyler81190 : But the question is... Did they WANT to be "clean"? As we can all see, by remaining a little visible, it has basically changed the search area into i
201 bajamatic : SAR Aircraft probably.
202 coolian2 : I can't see it myself. They've got essentially nothing to gain, and a lot to lose.
203 rj777 : Or somebody just solved the mystery of Amelia Earhart!
204 Leeloo : Good Evening, Since everybody is speculating wildly here.. this is my offer. The plane has just reached cruise altitude approx 40 min into the flight.
205 MarcoT : Get Real. Even buying into the 'too obvious' pretest (which I don't), why can't they just stage a fake hangar fire and be done with it? Instead no, t
206 Post contains links osloflyer : Wonder if somebody wanted to be a modern day DB Cooper figure shrouded in mystery. If the this was a Pilot/Copilot murder suicide. I think it would be
207 mandala499 : For Inmarsat Aero H+ or Swift64 or SwiftBroadband, estimates range from 60cm max depth to 2m depth depending on antenna type has been claimed, howeve
208 AustinALlison : One of the most concerning aspects of this deal now is that a majority of the world's intelligence agencies (US and world alike) are now working on th
209 prebennorholm : Not at all. They are reusing some fuselage tooling which they used to produce MD-80s decades ago. And then they mate it to a new wing made by Antonov
210 phantomx18 : I have put a lot of thought into this scenario and have come up with two things regarding this: 1. If one pilot locked another out of the cockpit whi
211 samguan : I read almost every posts but would this be possible at all: 1. Airplane took off 2. Government was notified of a terrorist hijack 3. Military sent je
212 N328KF : If this thing was flying around for several hours, most of which it was "off-scope" (officially), then the question becomes -- why did Malaysia not no
213 Tangowhisky : This seems like a well planned hijacking, but some details such as the SATCOM poor access from the Flight Deck can be overlooked. I say it is well pl
214 Post contains images socalgeo : Live:Map-http://sandbox.maps.arcgis.com/apps/OnePane/basicviewer/index.html?appid=95cbede59b3e471eb14b52c362966934 Apologies for the repeat of a post
215 tyler81190 : Valid concern... But unlikely as it would require extreme planning on any single group.
216 rfields5421 : Thailand and Malaysia have C-130H models, Singapore has C-130H and KC-130B / H models, Indonesia has a few C-130B and more C-130H and H-30 models. Th
217 cedarjet : Oh please. You're just wasting our time and bandwidth. 1. China is a super power for god's sake, they can make the axis the world spins on change wit
218 coolian2 : It seems so bizarre to have to say that the simplest explanation is the most likely one, but...there isn't one.
219 Wingtips56 : Sorry folks .... I was being sarcastic. But your response confirms that nobody would need to steal a 777 to figure out how to build an airplane.
220 zeke : This can be totally normal, and no indication of a problem at all. ACARS does not open a connection all the time, it only opens a connection when it
221 Post contains links LTC8K6 : http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/hq/e...ence/our-fleet/boeing-777-200.html Says that business class has SAT phones? Is that actually the case?
222 nupogodi : Malaysia does not have that many fighter aircraft, less than 50 I believe, unlikely that any of them would actually be ready to go immediately in the
223 Trin : Was doing some Tomnod'ing tonight and found something interesting but I can't figure out how to post an image here. It is on map 126574.
224 nupogodi : No, this route has good radar coverage. They dropped off SSR and ADS-B, other flights in the area don't.
225 tyler81190 : But as you said, if this were a highjacking, it is very complex and well planned. They could have known exactly what they were doing with regard to S
226 MarcoT : Yes, it somewhat resemble a plane, but in any case a straight winged one, so... And without a scale it is really impossible to say more... Note also
227 nupogodi : You're all wasting your time on that site. It was proven here earlier that the imaged area is ridiculously small, and area is one that has been gone
228 bajamatic : Is there any scenario in which the persons in the cockpit can cause the cabin to depressurize without causing the oxygen masks to activate in the cab
229 Post contains images YVRLTN : At what point are they going to ask for their money or demands then? Surely by now... Why go to a lengthy scheme like this which could easily fail? S
230 hivue : As mentioned earlier it's a C-130.
231 phantomx18 : If this was a coordinated hijacking to steal this plane, land it, and use it for some terrorist operation down the road, then we might not see this pl
232 nupogodi : Correct me if I'm wrong, but to have two large and fast aircraft in the flight levels with a disabled/inop transponder within an hour of each other w
233 LTC8K6 : Does anyone think that the false passport business, which didn't seem to be taken all that seriously, was exploited to hijack the plane?
234 nm2582 : I can't imagine that it would still be capable of flight after sitting on the ground for years with practically none of the support/maintenance infra
235 cedarjet : In the last ten years, please name one that even vaguely fits your characterisation.
236 hivue : Probably neither. The aircraft probably just needs to be powered and the breaker not pulled.
237 tyler81190 : They may wait until the governments of the cities are truly desperate and can extract more $$ from them for safe return. Or they could be hiding the
238 TheGov : I must confess that I have not read every single post, so the opinions I am about to state regarding this tragedy may have already been stated. If so,
239 7BOEING7 : No, but if you're on oxygen in the cockpit, you've got a fairly long supply -- in back you'll run out after a few minutes if you have the oxygen gene
240 Tangowhisky : Maybe they did have help. But it won't be necessary as the 4 to 5 hours of fuel it had is plenty to bring the plane to a hideout. All they have to do
241 billreid : Quoting billreid (Reply 19): So what is the simplest solution? 1. They never dialed in intentionally. Logic tells you they didn't have a catastrophic
242 tyler81190 : If this was really extensively planned, they could have had another aircraft up there to disguise it. But this is unlikely. It was just a thought. Th
243 Post contains links 802flyguy : For a change of pace from all the theories, from plausible to the tin foil hat type, here is good read about the culture of the Malaysian government a
244 chaseus1 : Long time lurker, first time posting. I am seeing a lot of posts that make the assumption that if it was a hijacking, it must have been successful...
245 StuckInCA : But why would they even have to answer those questions? They could simply say it was scrapped. Or that they took it apart. Boeing nor the US could sa
246 bajamatic : that thing is very interesting
247 nupogodi : We don't know for sure that any countries have space-based radar, but the concept for the technology is certainly not a secret. All of the radar sate
248 Indy : The thought crossed my mind. But is it realistic? When it comes to a car you can put on a stolen license plate and drive around for a while. Or you c
249 rfields5421 : Two problems with that which I see. 1) Too many people involved to keep it secret for long. The one thing I will agree about Malaysian 'incompetence'
250 tockeyhockey : can i just add one detail back in that everyone seems to have forgotten from early threads? what about the pilot who was asked to try to reach out an
251 JettTracer : Not sure whether these have been answered earlier but can I check the following: The passengers manifest list - is it true that there are 20 telecommu
252 mandala499 : Seriously, if that was the plan, they wouldn't be lost at night, the FMC can be programmed relatively easily for someone with mission planning and ba
253 Post contains images bajamatic : This is clearly a new set of tiles.... And this is an interesting find.
254 spacecadet : Because the rest of the world *isn't* conditioned like the US after 9/11. The Malaysian authorities have already said (I can't remember who, one of t
255 Trin : Were you able to see it? It certainly looks like a piece of heavy, metallic debris to me.
256 tyler81190 : But the colors are off, and the shape looks more like a tanker than an aircraft...
257 nupogodi : It's pretty clear to me that that's a ship.
258 flyinggoat : Looks like a ship to me...
259 trex8 : Maybe they are like the Swiss, the fast jet pilots dont work at night!
260 spacecadet : It looks like a boat to me; one of the many boats on these maps. Same shape. It's a little "ghost" like, probably because this is a set of tiles over
261 solarflyer22 : Very Interesting. There is, unfortunately, a lot of Iran paranoia both on these forums and in US media. Iran just signed a landmark agreement which b
262 rfields5421 : I doubt someone is monitoring any of the satellites real time, full time. An intelligence satellite is normally targeted for a specific target area.
263 philask : Container ship.
264 trex8 : One of the Chinese artists was a Uighur. He was the pax whose name was deleted/obscured on some early publicly released manifest lists.
265 Indy : Because the plane is nowhere near where it should be. If you shake your head at that then can you come up with a sane reason the plane is nowhere nea
266 gulfstream650 : Squint your eyes when you look at those images. Sadly looks like a container ship.
267 Post contains links chaseus1 : There were some areas on tomnod that DID look like a floating field of debris. www.tomnod.com/nod/challenge/malaysiaairsar2014/map/64249 Now, when you
268 Post contains images tyler81190 : You and I may agree on that, however I am sure there are those who disagree
269 Trin : Thanks for posting that for me - I'm afraid the image upload function completely defeated me. And I do see it now - more than likely a container ship
270 rfields5421 : A company in Austin Texas reported that 20 of their Chinese and Malaysian employees were on the flight. The company is Freescale Semiconductor. The c
271 Post contains images md80fanatic : Does anyone have an aspirin? Not for me .. for the moderators. Been gone all day and there's now 4 more threads that have rehashed the same stuff 9+ t
272 davidzill : I think when the United States became involved, we were able to paint an exacting picture of where 370 was flying, with other forensic details such as
273 boacvc10 : WSJ byline now says ... 'location and altitude' data was contained in the pings. Is there any 777 engineering document that outlines this method that
274 cal764 : Anyone remember a few months back the guy that made a 'gun' using TSA-approved items such as a spray-can, hair-dryer, ect which propelled coins and co
275 nick33326 : Perhaps demands have already been made and said demands include not divulging that the aircraft/crew/pax are sitting somewhere as the ongoing mystery
276 AT : I cannot even begin to imagine how it must feel to be a relative or a friend of a passenger on that ill fated flight. The uncertainty of the situation
277 Post contains links and images Starlionblue : This is a good start: http://tinyurl.com/mwud4k3
278 undertheradar : QUICK INTRO....I have been a reader of Airliners.net for many years and now just signed up as a result of the extra ordinary circumstances in relation
279 EMA747 : If we go down the hijacking route, what about a failed hijacking? Say for example somebody hijacks the plane, either a pax or one of the crew, and say
280 chaseus1 : The pilots were able to land that plane... amazingly.... and after a couple of struggles with the attacker, and then regaining control of a stress da
281 tomlee : I'm getting confused by all these conflicting media reports. There are stories saying ACARS was disabled 10 minutes before the transponder likely int
282 undertheradar : so many posts/theories on 'mechanical' reasons.....i'm stripping it back to basic 'human' factors...a human is the most 'flawed' item on any aircraft!
283 ltbewr : I suggested this before, but I believe that if this was a hijacking, it would have been people from Malaysia wanting to do a very embarrassing act upo
284 mandala499 : Until some authority states they saw MH370 on their primary radar crossing Malaysia, or Sumatra, or Nicobar Islands, or Southern Thailand, then... so
285 nupogodi : You can shut down ACARS but the SATCOM will still attempt to maintain a connection to the satellite. Apparently the breaker to remove power from the
286 zeke : I beg to differ, and I do operate in that area reasonably frequently. Aircraft do drop off ADS if they finish with one FIR and log onto the next, not
287 LTC8K6 : I liken the SATCOM system to a router. It continues to check in with the satellite "server", even if it has no data to send.
288 tomlee : The problem is the news story stated not the SATCOM controller but some Boeing maintenance system but not RR engine report was sending pings because
289 Post contains images desh : Did a quick search for Washingtonpost- did not find anything. Helpful graphic - Apologies is this is a repost ... I have heard that they took on 2 add
290 Boeing717200 : So here's a thought..... The Navy is headed to the Indian Ocean now because we got fed up with what appears to be a goat rope Search and Rescue and ca
291 sipadan : Airplane DID NOT have ANY mechanical issue!!!!!!!!! So, then what???? 100% certainty that a/c was commandeered. Okay, by who???? Duh, the PILOT!!!!! I
292 spacecadet : Air Force Chief Gen. Rodzali Daud said data analysis showed an intermittent plot to the west of the country, which was spotted last at 2:15 a.m., abou
293 tomlee : I understand that an Immersat terminal would have its own diagnostics functions but the news stories say Boeing's non-subscribed airplane data was se
294 nupogodi : AHM / EHM / etc all go over ACARS, which has VHF/HF/SATCOM available as downlinks, and the latter two only if installed and subscribed. They had SATC
295 Stretch : We call it a keep alive signal in telecom. "Hello, I'm here but nothing to send."
296 trex8 : Maybe I missed this in previous posts but when the press say ACARS stopped transmitting does that mean there was an abrupt end to a steady stream of r
297 undertheradar : . but 'UNTIL' ... doesn't mean it cant be a possibility... you've only just highlighted the MANY military 'areas' of various countries....keeping in
298 yvphx : Is there a possibility that one of the passengers attached a Luggage GPS Tracker? Could this be an item that searchers havn't asked the next of kin to
299 spacecadet : "Transmit" to where? If the plane is over an ocean, what is it connecting to to transmit? Bottom line is to believe that, you also have to believe th
300 tim73 : Bodies stay underwater at salty warm waters at sea for about 4-10 days before starting to float due to gasses produced inside the body. The warmer wat
301 btfarrwm : How much of that info can you infer from the location of the satellite and the time taken for pings, and what would need to be encoded?
302 sbkom : The pings do not necessarily contain the location data. But the satellite antennas can approximate the originating signal's location.
303 bajamatic : I'm baffled. We've heard this story now four times! Cue M'asia: Time to announce that there was no satellite messaging.
304 tomlee : So either the news article is insane or it was just the modem sending pings which does make sense if it is the case. I hope they can clear things up
305 Post contains links rotating14 : Hello. I am late to this thread but came across an interesting article that deserves a quick read if not a glance. http://thehayride.com/2014/03/heres
306 undertheradar : I hear you!!.... the 'blinkered' public cant imagine/fathom that ANY flight crew could commit such an act...FLIGHT CREW ARE HUMANS!!! im sticking by
307 LTC8K6 : No, that would alert ATC. You'd want to delay ATC suspicion as long as you could.
308 Post contains links glbltrvlr : WSJ is now reporting that they did...
309 kurtjeter : I've read most of this thread, so I apologize if what I'm asking has been dealt with--I missed it! A while back (threads 14-15?) there was talk about
310 doug_Or : Are you familiar with the systems on the 777? I only ask because on commercial aircraft I've flown you CAN prevent the masks from falling.
311 tomlee : Why they had a few hours before they were next supposed to be contacted (It took two additional hours to realize even after they lost transponder dat
312 audioace87 : And at the point of handoff between two international ATCs would be the perfect opportunity to do that.
313 tyler81190 : I am curious to that as well.. Why not the FO or why not both of them??
314 TwoSixLeft : As far as we know, there hasn't been any police search of the captain's home. I believe the Malaysian authorities made a statement to that effect at
315 flyenthu : Tomlee in #304 makes a great point IMO: "In my view the fact that the transponder shut off later is strongly against an hijacking theory as it would m
316 btfarrwm : CNN just interviewed a US Navy Captain who said a P8 Poseidon was en route to KUL to participate in the search over the indian ocean
317 StuckInCA : Maybe. Maybe not. I highly doubt that the presence of these people had anything to do with the disappearance of the plane, but I wouldn't necessarily
318 tomlee : It would be the perfect time to turn off the transponder which isn't the first thing disabled. The backwards order doesn't make sense to me if it was
319 LTC8K6 : If you are hijacking the plane as a mass killing terrorist act, why isn't the Gulf of Thailand a good enough spot to crash it? On the other hand, why
320 Post contains links Wolger : Hello guys, I am new here. I've been lurking for some time and followed the thread's discussion obsessively since Day 1. Point no1:Just to set things
321 Enobar : That is my theory for what its worth. The plane was either suffering mechanical issues, or a hijack scenario. Its ventured off course in China, the m
322 jcxroberts : This guy is hearing it flew 3,650 miles. (https://twitter.com/flyingwithfish) Possible ?
323 tomlee : Plus historically in terrorist/hijacking situations isn't the transponder the first thing to go. It would be pretty strange conversation to have with
324 LTC8K6 : Why alert the authorities as your first act? Also, turning off the transponder at handoff near IGARI introduces a bit of confusion as to who is respo
325 flyenthu : Also, if hijacking, why wasn't the hijack code transmitted? My speculation, if indeed deliberate, is that someone with a solid background in aviation
326 tomlee : Well to de-crazy this thread one has to not make crazy theories in the first place. Technically speaking not doing SAR work the ocean will do the cle
327 Wolger : Another point - is why Somalia, to the far west of peninsular Malaysia. Just another wild wild speculation by me. Remember there are few Somali pirate
328 drew777 : I quit following his posts after he stated that the plane landed safely and kidnapping the 20 people working for Freescale was the goal.
329 bajamatic : I think they were making much more than smartphones. "While four passengers who boarded a missing Malaysian jet are under special investigation for s
330 jcxroberts : If you read up on the pilot it's doubtful he is a religious fanatic. He went to a Western-oriented prep school Panang Free. The candidates he likes on
331 LTC8K6 : I think the possible reasons for that are very obvious...
332 bajamatic : I was suspect of that guy, too. But take a look - he's been spot on, and about 30 minutes ahead of the curve. He and Jon Ostrower - they're clearly s
333 LTC8K6 : Perhaps the co-pilot returned to his habit of letting passengers fool around in the cockpit...
334 sipadan : pilot is an athesist..Richard Dawkins fan etc...for all to see on his you tube page
335 tomlee : If there is one thing I learned it is that we are only really protected from terrorism because truly smart/sophisticated people don't do that kind of
336 coolian2 : Just had an RNZAF P-3 fly low over my house in Auckland. Boy they sure did expand that search zone.
337 Post contains images socalgeo : Live Map:http://sandbox.maps.arcgis.com/apps/OnePane/basicviewer/index.html?appid=95cbede59b3e471eb14b52c362966934 I honestly don't think so, but who
338 flyenthu : I know there are many reasons for not sqwaking the hijack codes. But, wouldn't pax be aware of hijacking and attempted to contact with cell phones, h
339 ANydam : Interesting, first time I've heard this. Maybe something new (human bodies) will come to light in the near future.
340 7BOEING7 : The news media are as usual clueless. ACARS made its last report at 1:07 and wasn't due to report again until landing (?) it wasn't turned off!!! If i
341 sipadan : yes...I really don't understand the opposing logic...and, these aren't "hijackers". This is a seasoned pilot who knows every in and out of plane, avi
342 imagoagnitio : make sense, Freescale call a press conference at KUL on Sunday morning, Lynda Carter (Wonder Woman for the young ones out there) is the new Freescale
343 D L X : They were the part of Motorola that made microchips, like the PowerPC chip that powered Macintoshes. Where did this quote come from?
344 Planeflyer : As they say 1st time long time. Love the site. So informative! Given the latest info regards how long the plane was apparently airborne it seems a hij
345 tomlee : It does make sense to turn it off there what doesn't make sense is why turn of ACARS first as some news stories are claiming. It is easier and logica
346 stuyyz : How does the 777 cockpit door actually lock? If it is a combination, how can you lock the pilot out if he knows the combo? Who sets the combo? If its
347 LTC8K6 : Cell phones aren't likely to work. If the hijackers knew to turn things off, then they knew to turn the seat phones off and even the moving map displ
348 bajamatic : I was led to believe from this forum that ACARS isn't always transmitting, that it would have completed a transmission after reaching cruising alt.,
349 undertheradar : totally agree... admittedly I stupidly referred to the 'pilot' a s a 'highjacker' ...but only in the context as the pilot 'highjacked' the aircraft t
350 LTC8K6 : Perhaps ACARS is simply less obvious to the other pilot? Perhaps you can turn off ACARS without your fellow pilot noticing?
351 sipadan : unless you know what your endgame is and how everything will look to investigators...if total confusion is one of the aims (which it clearly is), the
352 wjcandee : I find it absolutely reprehensible that Malaysian Airlines and their government officials said for literally DAYS that there were no ACARS transmissio
353 AngMoh : All of it is extremely unlikely, but on the other hand the Malaysian Air Force had a year or 2 ago 2 or 3 jet engines (Mirage?) stolen and they were
354 tomlee : I'm not sure what to believe but the news story stated the US government thought ACARS was deliberately turned off at a separate time than the transp
355 flyenthu : Why wouldn't cell phones work? If the events unfolded 40-50mins into flight, you are not exactly close to KL, but not too far either, and just off th
356 LTC8K6 : The transponder is the end of any charade. Once you turn off the transponder, your fellow pilot knows you are up to no good. So it would be turned off
357 LTC8K6 : IIRC, they reached 35K feet in about 15 minutes. Do cell phones work at 35K feet?
358 sipadan : also, if the transponder doesn't go off right at handoff, and instead goes off when definitively in Malay or Vietnam airspace, it will diminish the p
359 SSTeve : Yes. Certainly among all the passengers on all the planes in the world, a bunch of Freescale engineers aren't going to be anything remarkable.
360 flyenthu : Yes, I texted pics from SQ 61 over Greenland. The plane had OnAir. Did this plane have wifi? I am not sure.[Edited 2014-03-13 21:43:21]
361 UALWN : Which apparently is true. It wasn't. Apparently, it took the American investigators 6 days to determine that the plane kept pinging some satellite. N
362 tomlee : No transponders can fail, radio's can fail, acars can fail. And what difference does 10 minutes make. It is still the transponder that would be the l
363 nm2582 : I know that there has been a ton of confusing and contradicting info coming from them, but the presently published info supports their claims. The mo
364 LTC8K6 : I am not sure either, but I am sure that it can be turned off and the pax can be told it "isn't working for this flight". That would be one more clue
365 Post contains links flood : Sounds like you have some reading to catch up. The satellite pings are not ACARS transmissions. http://tinyurl.com/mqn2p5l
366 flyenthu : Would love a link to this article.
367 tomlee : I watched the press conference and it seems like it is more of the media amplifying rumours more than the Malaysian government being inept. Maybe the
368 philask : With almost certainty, no, while some signal may leak up to those altitudes it's way to high for a phone to lock onto a tower (especially once you al
369 LTC8K6 : I think both of those are wrong.
370 nm2582 : Call me an optimist, but I feel like this investigation is starting to come together. We know that acars and the transponder was switched off.. we now
371 timothy31388 : MH's aircraft do not have wifi. One aircraft was installed with a wifi device years back, but it was removed soon after.
372 Post contains links nm2582 : Here you go. I had problems posting the real URL so I had to put it through tinyurl. http://tinyurl.com/mqn2p5l Here's the plain text of the link if
373 chaseus1 : Maybe the PAX were incapacitated, either by some depressurization, or even some type of chemical... like ricin or something? Or somehow the hijackers
374 mandala499 : No, this plane does not have onboard wifi or onboard GSM service. It is not equipped for it.
375 lweber557 : Another theory of mine much like my speculation earlier. In flight fire causes loss off comm/nav systems, possibly 1 by one before anyone realizes the
376 tomlee : If I am not mistaken the last communication was “All right, good night,” and then they were supposed to hand off but didn't. Then hour later when
377 seb146 : Someone made a passing comment about the private jet of a golfer crashing where everyone, including both pilots, passed out and died and the jet simpl
378 Superfly : That happened in the movie Airport 1977. In that case, someone would have had to tamper with the oxygen lines while the hijackers put on gas mask in
379 chaseus1 : To reply 381.... I was kinda thinking about them donning the masks in the cockpit after taking the plane, and before knocking the passengers out[Edite
380 Post contains links nm2582 : Here you go. I had problems posting the real URL so I had to put it through tinyurl. http://tinyurl.com/mqn2p5l Here's the plain text of the link if
381 hamiltondaniel : Ask the Russians about how reliable chemical knockout agents actually are. They show up in movies. They don't show up in real life all that often, an
382 flyenthu : Thank you!
383 chaseus1 : So they do it by deressurizing the plane... or shutting off any capability for passengers to make calls... I'm just wondering why no passengers made
384 nm2582 : Random thought: If the latest WSJ article is true (that we have several hours of position data), how mad would the controlling folks have to be to dis
385 tomlee : I carry a P100+chemical gas mask for work. I'm pretty sure you can force open the emergency oxygen supply (I carry blunt small tools and I doubt the
386 tomlee : Wouldn't they need to refuel first?
387 KIAS : No, it has not been discounted. Little has been discounted at this point aside from MAS370 safely landing at PEK. There are several ways a transponde
388 flyenthu : Wondering along similar lines. Plane had fuel for trip and for two or more additional hours. The satellite pings went on for five hours which is roug
389 chaseus1 : I kinda added the chemical idea as an afterthought to my idea of hijackers having cockpit oxygen on then depressurizing the plane... I realize that wa
390 LTC8K6 : So that's one less thing for a hijacker to worry about.
391 doug_Or : Metal fatigue related structural failure or bomb causes serious damage to onboard electronics/radios and explosive decompression. Pilot spins heading
392 tomlee : I thought the same thing when reading an article titled US government believes it to be deliberate. When the order is all backwards if true. Disablin
393 tomlee : On the 777 I think there are individual chemical generators in the box. Just pull the pin to activate. Now don't try this on a regular flight as you
394 LTC8K6 : Why couldn't the co-pilot, for example, go into the E/E bay and turn off whatever he could think of, prior to the hijacking? Couldn't he get up for a
395 nm2582 : The flight was scheduled for a duration of 5hrs, 50 minutes; there would have been at least another hour of fuel on board most likely. So you're look
396 tomlee : I can't really think of a good reason for someone to go messing around with the electronics bay midflight without a good reason. Not to mention why d
397 tomlee : Except no one knew about the sat pings until recently they can't exactly go back in time and change their behaviour now.[Edited 2014-03-13 22:22:03]
398 MillwallSean : Personally i am quite impressed that the US is happy to tell the world they get info from all Boeings and probably Airbuses that circle our globe. Bec
399 flyenthu : Good points. Why the gap in time between ACARS and transponder shutdowns if becoming invisible is the idea, especially when the transponder dial is r
400 CaliAtenza : yeah honestly, that makes probably the most sense out of all the theories i've come across.
401 flyorski : It is possible they have no record of it. I do not know the specifics at MH, however with some airlines if the crew requests additional fuel they can
402 Post contains links SA7700 : Due to length this thread will be locked for further contributions. All posts added after the thread lock will be removed for housekeeping purposes on
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