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Virgin America To Pull Out Of SJC  
User currently offlineSocalApproach From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 14820 times:

After a little over a year of launching San Jose, CA VX has decided to end SJC-LAX service effective May 14 2014 which will be the last flight. Press release should be out shortly.

Virgin America to pull out of San Jose, ending 'Nerd Bird' flight

[Edited 2014-03-14 11:35:15 by SA7700]

72 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLAXintl From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 14725 times:

Unfortunately no surprise. Route has been sluggish since the start. Airport even through in another $100,000 marketing money in November.

Crowded market, and planes can be used for something more productive.


User currently offlinelegacyins From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 14469 times:

Their landing fees were waved for one year so the timing is right. I had heard their week day flights averaged 30-35%.

User currently offlineSANFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 14206 times:

Speaking of VX cancelling service, can someone clarify the date that they officially pulled out of ANC? I assume it was around September of last year but does anyone know when the VX season (and the route) actually ended? Thanx in advance.

bb


User currently offlinemikesairways From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 14151 times:
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Sad to hear - while it was an over saturated route, QX/AS also pulling out in June. Just DL, AA, UA and WN to duke it out. I was really pulling for them - flew on the inaugural SJC-LAX last May.

User currently offlineSANFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 14067 times:

Quoting mikesairways (Reply 4):
QX/AS also pulling out in June.

Interesting, I hadn't seen this mentioned anywhere here on A.net. Thanks for sharing that fact.

Quoting mikesairways (Reply 4):
Just DL, AA, UA and WN to duke it out.

"Just"?   I guess AS blinked first, but to have a second withdrawal shortly thereafter is kind of unique...

bb


User currently offlinedbo861 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 14039 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 3):

Speaking of VX cancelling service, can someone clarify the date that they officially pulled out of ANC? I assume it was around September of last year but does anyone know when the VX season (and the route) actually ended? Thanx in advance.

bb

ANC was seasonal service, so September sounds about right. It looks like that route isn't returning this year.

How many flights did they have to SJC? I'm assuming this capacity will go towards their anticipated DAL focus city..if they get the gates.


User currently offlinemikesairways From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 13971 times:
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They 4 during the week and 3 weekends. Southwest is now back to the only mainline.

User currently offlineSocalApproach From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 13772 times:

Quoting mikesairways (Reply 4):
QX/AS also pulling out in June.

Interesting, Even with the Q400 and the connection options in LAX, AS is pulling the plug as well.

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 6):
ANC was seasonal service, so September sounds about right. It looks like that route isn't returning this year.

Didnt seem like VX had any cruise contracts at all and they dont fly freight i.e. fresh seafood like B6 and AS do into ANC so this route was bound to fail. If I recall B6 loves ANC because of all the $$$ to be made with freight which is why they even started ANC-SEA. I think VX will return to ANC some day. It is a great product to fly to gear up for a pleasant cruise around Alaska.

Quoting legacyins (Reply 2):
Their landing fees were waved for one year so the timing is right.

Sounds alot like YYZ

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 6):
I'm assuming this capacity will go towards their anticipated DAL focus city

Makes sense but for the meantime expect the aircraft to be used on routes that are making money. Extra capacity from SFO/LAX to BOS/JFK seems to fit the bill until "pending" DAL is launched


User currently offlineenilria From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 13673 times:

Quoting SocalApproach (Thread starter):
After a little over a year of launching San Jose, CA VX has decided to end SJC-LAX service effective May 14 2014 which will be the last flight. Press release should be out shortly.

They are going to have to drop a lot more routes to use all these slots.


User currently offlinedbo861 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 13652 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 9):
They are going to have to drop a lot more routes to use all these slots.

Don't forget that they start receiving new aircraft again in 2015, schedules are normally reduced during the winter months..which is around the time they're supposed to take possession of the slots, maybe they're not at full utilization with their fleet (I don't know this for a fact), all of the routes out of DAL aren't supposed to begin right at first...so I wouldn't necessarily say they'll have to drop a lot more routes.

Who knows, maybe behind the scenes they're working to move up deliveries or lease another aircraft or two. When they deferred their aircraft deliveries, they didn't know these slots would be coming available. They must have had contingency plans in place incase opportunities like this came up.


User currently offlineSocalApproach From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 13542 times:

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 10):
all of the routes out of DAL aren't supposed to begin right at first...so I wouldn't necessarily say they'll have to drop a lot more routes.

   Cush has advised that DAL wont be at full operation until 5-6 months after launching which is right on que when they will be taking on more brand new A320 aircraft.


User currently offlineAirFiero From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 12820 times:

I thought about starting one of those airport specific threads about SJC, but what little news there is seems to be bad. Either service being cut back or lost. Seems like SJC will never find its way out of being the ass end of Bay area aviation.

User currently offlineScottB From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 12682 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
Unfortunately no surprise. Route has been sluggish since the start. Airport even through in another $100,000 marketing money in November.

Crowded market, and planes can be used for something more productive.

No surprise at all. For a flight that runs under an hour from takeoff to touchdown, passenger traffic is going to be driven by price, schedule, and loyalty programs. First class seating, TV's, and mood-lighting don't matter when your competition goes up to 10x daily for the same price.


User currently offlinea380787 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 12632 times:

oh well such is life ... i guess the planes for DAL/DCA/LGA expansion *has* to come from somewhere

i wonder if PSP will be the next victim


User currently offlineSocalApproach From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 12432 times:

Quoting a380787 (Reply 14):
i wonder if PSP will be the next victim
PSP actually does well during its season and the JFK-PSP flight is solid as well. PSP is here to stay. PDX is the wildcard.

Press Release is now live

http://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/n...erica-to-pull-out-of-san-jose.html

[Edited 2014-03-14 09:01:48]

User currently onlineSFOA380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 12375 times:

Quoting AirFiero (Reply 12):

I thought about starting one of those airport specific threads about SJC, but what little news there is seems to be bad. Either service being cut back or lost. Seems like SJC will never find its way out of being the ass end of Bay area aviation.

SJC numbers have been going back up for over a year. Still anemic IMHO. Seems ironic that this particular airport sits smack dab in the middle of the highest earning metro in the country yet suffers. ANA flight sounds like it's doing well and there's been talk of another Asian carrier in the works. SJC lives in the shadow of SFO, but there's still no reason it can't coexist and thrive. It is absolutely booming here-construction everywhere...


User currently offlinedbo861 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 12293 times:

Quoting SocalApproach (Reply 15):
PSP actually does well during its season and the JFK-PSP flight is solid as well. PSP is here to stay. PDX is the wildcard.

I think it's interesting that a once weekly flight can be so successful, JFK-PSP. I wonder if they'll ever add frequency to this route.


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 12238 times:

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 10):
Don't forget that they start receiving new aircraft again in 2015,

Where are they going to go? VX has pulled down their current flying quite a bit. There's plenty of slack now, never mind the SJC shells and who knows what else, plus any deliveries.


User currently offlinedbo861 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (1 year 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 12133 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 18):
Where are they going to go? VX has pulled down their current flying quite a bit. There's plenty of slack now, never mind the SJC shells and who knows what else, plus any deliveries.

How much slack is there right now? They've recently added frequency on some of their transcons, and they're bringing back SFO-MCO.

And to answer your question regarding where their new aircraft will go...If they get the 2 DAL gates, they'll begin that focus city with their 4 DCA slots, 4 of their LGA slots, 2 flights to ORD and 4 flights each to LAX and SFO..replacing I believe the 3 daily flights to LAX and SFO to DFW. That's a lot of additional flying. Also there's 2 unaccounted for LGA slots, possibly going to ORD. They could also beef up some of their transcons, maybe add some point to point routes.

I wonder what they'll do if they don't get the DAL gates. Maybe open a DFW focus city..even though they said they wouldn't.

The next couple years is going to be interesting for Virgin America. I love that airline and hope they do well.


User currently offlineTomassjc From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (1 year 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 11967 times:
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Quoting SocalApproach (Reply 8):
Interesting, Even with the Q400 and the connection options in LAX, AS is pulling the plug as well.

Actually, those ARE the 2 reasons as to why AS/QX is pulling the plug. The operational reliability of the Q400 has been a challenge. And while the route offers great connection opportunities, the price of reaccomodating those connections when a flight cancels or goes on a long tech delay is costing AS much more than it makes. Sorry, but good riddance!

Tomas SJC


User currently offlinekilauea717 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (1 year 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 11360 times:

Quoting SFOA380 (Reply 16):
ANA flight sounds like it's doing well and there's been talk of another Asian carrier in the works

What other Asian/International carriers would be possible at SJC?


User currently onlineSFOA380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (1 year 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 11061 times:

Quoting kilauea717 (Reply 21):
What other Asian/International carriers would be possible at SJC?

I would imagine BR to TPE or OZ to ICN would do fine given the *A base in the catchment area. Considering there are already multiple dailies on multiple carriers out of SFO...


User currently offlinelegacyins From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (1 year 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 10869 times:

Quoting SFOA380 (Reply 22):

I would change BR to CI. BR is going double daily into SFO and, IMO, a 77W would be too big. As for a Korean airline , I would say KE has a better shot. But, this is only hearsay and nothing is firm.


User currently onlineHiFlyerAS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (1 year 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 10770 times:

Quoting SocalApproach (Reply 15):
PSP actually does well during its season and the JFK-PSP flight is solid as well. PSP is here to stay. PDX is the wildcard.

While tomorrow's JFK-PSP is full, one week from tomorrow it's empty...seats are going for only $177 o/w. Ouch.


User currently offlineScottB From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 25, posted (1 year 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 10602 times:

Quoting SFOA380 (Reply 16):
Seems ironic that this particular airport sits smack dab in the middle of the highest earning metro in the country yet suffers. ANA flight sounds like it's doing well and there's been talk of another Asian carrier in the works. SJC lives in the shadow of SFO, but there's still no reason it can't coexist and thrive. It is absolutely booming here-construction everywhere...

With no airline hub at SJC, it will continue to sit in the shadow of the marquee destination of the metro area. Even though Bay Area traffic can be horrible, it is worth driving to SFO in order to avoid a connection at one East Asian hub airport or another and get a non-stop. And for the Asian carriers, if they plan to offer a second flight to the region, it's probably more valuable and cost-effective to have a second frequency to SFO versus opening a new station at SJC.


User currently offlineOAKflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 26, posted (1 year 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 10019 times:

Hello,

Too bad the flight is cancelled. It seemed like a saturated market for that route. VX thought they could take on WN, DL & UA. Construction in an area does not necessarily mean an area is booming. Those constructed buildings could be built and sit empty. OAK & SJC have suffered since the economic recession of 2008. It looks like economic recovery has not happened.


User currently onlineOzarkD9S From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 27, posted (1 year 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 9984 times:

SJC seemed like VX's type of market. I wonder if transcons to BOS/IAD and JFK (if they could get a slot or two) would have panned out better. LAX was a bloodbath waiting to happen.

User currently offlineBoeingGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 28, posted (1 year 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 9622 times:

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 27):
SJC seemed like VX's type of market. I wonder if transcons to BOS/IAD and JFK (if they could get a slot or two) would have panned out better. LAX was a bloodbath waiting to happen.

I wondered that too. SJC-LAX seemed like a weird market for VX to get into when starting SJC. Seems like SJC to something east, particularly an undeserved, market would pan out much better.


User currently offlineSurfandSnow From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 29, posted (1 year 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 9610 times:

It's too bad SJC doesn't work out for VX, but it's not like we weren't warned by official statements in news articles. Then there was the precedent of the similarly short-lived SNA experiment, not to mention the need to come up with capacity for all the new LGA and DCA service.

Anyone know how VX's LAX-LAS is doing?


User currently offlinecompliancecheck From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 30, posted (1 year 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 9375 times:

Quoting Tomassjc (Reply 20):
The operational reliability of the Q400 has been a challenge. And while the route offers great connection opportunities, the price of reaccomodating those connections when a flight cancels or goes on a long tech delay is costing AS much more than it makes. Sorry, but good riddance!

Not to hijack the thread but is the Q performing that badly for Horizon? I didn't realize it. Is it a specific set of recurring issues? How long has the plane been in service? It feels as if they should have achieved an acceptable level of reliability by now! Otherwise, why ditch the CR7?

As for VX, this is sad to hear but good for them for taking loss-making flying out of the network. I, too, am interested to see what happens in PDX.


User currently offlineSurfandSnow From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 31, posted (1 year 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 9043 times:

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 27):
SJC seemed like VX's type of market.

So did SNA. However, it is important to see past the glamorous façade of these places and realize that between astronomical living costs and the incessant social pressure to keep up the Joneses, even high income individuals typically have little if any discretionary income to spend on air travel. Tech savvy workforces can conduct meetings and even close deals over the phone and internet rather than flying employees to headquarters or client sites. Those that do have the time and money to travel may tout the convenience of the local airport all day long, but then end up driving the extra hour or two to the nearby major airport because it offers better schedules, fares, and far more nonstop options. Simply put, why fly SJC-LAX-ORD when you can drive to SFO and fly nonstop to ORD from there?

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 27):
I wonder if transcons to BOS/IAD and JFK (if they could get a slot or two) would have panned out better.

Even B6 can only manage redeye JFK-SJC service and seasonal BOS-SJC service. That's it for transcons out of SJC. Washington, D.C. hasn't been served nonstop from SJC in years. I highly doubt VX would have had any success in this realm.

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 27):
LAX was a bloodbath waiting to happen.

Yes, but VX knew they were getting themselves into a dog fight against AA (apathetic towards SJC), AS (inferior connectivity/FF base at LAX), UA (apathetic towards LAX), and WN (distracted by FL merger). DL did not make things any easier by also entering the fray, but VX had to see that one coming given their recent expansion moves at LAX.

Vastly superior product and a schedule that was great for O&D, as well as great for connectivity to virtually all of the nation's top markets via LAX. Can't blame them for trying!


User currently offlineshengzhurou From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 32, posted (1 year 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 8787 times:

i thought VX service would be too premium for SJC LAX route

User currently offlineProst From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 33, posted (1 year 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 8737 times:

Didn't most on this site think Delta would be the first to fold?

User currently offlinelaca773 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 34, posted (1 year 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 8626 times:
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It's too bad this market couldn't work out for VX. Too much capacity in the SJC-LAX-SJC market.I wouldn't be surprised to see UA drop their CRJ fiights eventually.

User currently onlineanonms From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 35, posted (1 year 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 8223 times:

Quoting legacyins (Reply 23):
I would change BR to CI.

BR has A332s that they could possibly deploy on this route, CI doesn't.


User currently offlinemikesairways From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 36, posted (1 year 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 7733 times:
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I'm surprised UA hasn't either. I only see one flight today on their schedule.

User currently offlineTomassjc From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 37, posted (1 year 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 7581 times:
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I think Southwest, Delta and American will be the winners of this battle. In that order.

Tomas SJC


User currently offlinegabrielz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 38, posted (1 year 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 7155 times:

SJC's problem is that really rich and powerful part of the valley (Palo Alto, mountain View) is close enough to sfo that any sjc advantage is moot. To whit, sfo is actually a very convenient airport for its size - you can go from curb to gate in just a few minutes - especially with tsa pre check. And, with a long time base of loyal UA FFPs, it will be hard to compete when all things are equal.

Of course, for Fremont and the far South Bay, sjc is much more convenient. And if your flight needs to be on time, it's way more reliable than sfo. But price is its leverage, and if it can't keep prices down, there isn't a ton of value it's bringing.

-G


User currently offlinewarden145 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 39, posted (1 year 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 6881 times:

Quoting gabrielz (Reply 38):
SJC's problem is that really rich and powerful part of the valley (Palo Alto, mountain View) is close enough to sfo that any sjc advantage is moot.

The really funny thing there is, SJC's been doing a radio ad blitz lately trying to get people on the Peninsula to choose SJC over SFO for flights to southern California...even for cities (Woodside, Redwood City, for example) where SFO's actually closer.

"Why drive north to fly south?" is the tagline they've been using.

Like you said, for most of those people, the difference in distance is negligible...the only thing SJC really has going for it is that it doesn't have the fog/delay problems that SFO has...

Sad to see VX pull out, but I'd be lying if I said I was surprised...


User currently offlineRWA380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 40, posted (1 year 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 6829 times:

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 27):

SJC seemed like VX's type of market. I wonder if transcons to BOS/IAD and JFK (if they could get a slot or two) would have panned out better. LAX was a bloodbath waiting to happen.

I am not surprised that VX did not enter a transcon market, but instead to try and grow a flyer base with a low yield, short hop, funnelling anyone wanting to go East on VX via LAX.

Quoting SocalApproach (Reply 15):
PDX is the wildcard.

How so? I am curious what resources you used to come up with that statement? Is this a rumor or a guess?

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 19):
If they get the 2 DAL gates, they'll begin that focus city with their 4 DCA slots, 4 of their LGA slots, 2 flights to ORD and 4 flights each to LAX and SFO..replacing I believe the 3 daily flights to LAX and SFO to DFW. That's a lot of additional flying. Also there's 2 unaccounted for LGA slots, possibly going to ORD. They could also beef up some of their tran-scons, maybe add some point to point routes.

I was under the impression the aircraft for DAL were coming from new deliveries scheduled later this year. Do you really think that VX will jump into the ORD-LGA market with one r/t a day?

Quoting kilauea717 (Reply 21):
What other Asian/International carriers would be possible at SJC?

Any airline with a 787 that has a need to build a niche market up in SJC. SJC is always going to be in the shadow of a much larger neighbor, just like SAN & LAX, PBI/FLL & MIA, PDX & SEA, BDL & NYC or BOS, the list goes on.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 31):
DL did not make things any easier by also entering the fray,

At this point I think DL is willing to jump into overcrowded markets, making every carrier try and match artificially low fares, see who bleeds cash the most expecting the smaller guys jump to jump ship first.

Quoting shengzhurou (Reply 32):

i thought VX service would be too premium for SJC LAX route

Maybe, but there are those who F is a must, even for 45 minutes, I've had them as clients for 20+ years. But I would expect some would also be connecting in LAX to the VX system.


User currently offlineUA735WL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 41, posted (1 year 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 6772 times:

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 40):

That's called predatory pricing, and is illegal. If it was allowed, I'm sure UA would be at $50 R/T fares for all VX routes out of SFO...


User currently offlinedbo861 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 42, posted (1 year 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 6748 times:

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 40):
I was under the impression the aircraft for DAL were coming from new deliveries scheduled later this year. Do you really think that VX will jump into the ORD-LGA market with one r/t a day?

VX isn't supposed to take delivery of any new aircraft until next year..second half of 2015 I believe, unless that's changed.

Also, they got a total of 12 slots at LGA, for 6 round trips. 8 of those slots (4 round trips) will be used to DAL so 4 slots (2 round trips) are still unaccounted for. I was just guessing they'd use them to ORD, but it hasn't been announced yet, they could use them to Florida or BOS. I wonder if VX is waiting to see if they get the DAL gates before they decide where to use them, or at least announce where they use them.


User currently offlineRWA380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 43, posted (1 year 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6311 times:

Quoting UA735WL (Reply 41):
That's called predatory pricing, and is illegal. If it was allowed, I'm sure UA would be at $50 R/T fares for all VX routes out of SFO..

I think there are enough examples of carriers jumping into markets, dropping fares and nothing has come against them for predatory pricing, a fare war is a fare war, nothing more. It seems DL is not afraid of bleeding a little to thin the heard on certain routes.

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 42):
I wonder if VX is waiting to see if they get the DAL gates before they decide where to use them, or at least announce where they use them.

And what will VX do with DCA and LGA slots if they do not get DAL gates? I'd expect they have a plan B.


User currently offlinemariner From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 44, posted (1 year 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6289 times:
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Quoting UA735WL (Reply 41):
That's called predatory pricing, and is illegal. If it was allowed, I'm sure UA would be at $50 R/T fares for all VX routes out of SFO...

Sure, its illegal but it is extremely hard to prove.

The Department of Justice took on American - and lost - and Northwest was notorious for predatory pricing, and predatory action (Reno Air, e.g.), as in this long discussion:

http://www.airlineinfo.com/ostpdf26/277.pdf

" Predatory Practices by Northwest Airlines"

A lot of those Northwest folk moved to Delta.

mariner


User currently offlineMah4546 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 45, posted (1 year 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6291 times:

Quoting Tomassjc (Reply 37):

I think Southwest, Delta and American will be the winners of this battle. In that order.

Why in "that order," and why not United?

Southwest, American and United carry the most local traffic on the route, in that order.


User currently offlineTomassjc From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 46, posted (1 year 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5934 times:
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Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 45):
Southwest, American and United carry the most local traffic on the route, in that order.

Curious if you have stats on connecting traffic via LAX? I'm just wondering if DL comes out ahead of UA in terms of connecting traffic?


User currently offlinezippyjet From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 47, posted (1 year 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5954 times:

Quoting SocalApproach (Thread starter):

Our flights to SJC do relatively well. WN

BTW, not to hijack the thread but any truth to rumors of VX breaking into BWI and MIA? They like us do FLL, But the rumor mill is always buzzing.

VX also does DCA but, DCA has it's limitations.


User currently offlineLAXintl From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 48, posted (1 year 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5894 times:

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 40):
VX did not enter a transcon market, but instead to try and grow a flyer base with a low yield, short hop, funnelling anyone wanting to go East on VX via LAX.

You realize yields SJC-LAX are higher than anything it would generate going East right?


User currently offlineSocalApproach From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 49, posted (1 year 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5597 times:

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 40):
ow so? I am curious what resources you used to come up with that statement? Is this a rumor or a guess?

It is more of a guess just from looking at the loads going up to PDX. It cannot even support service to LAX anymore. Sometimes it is only 2 flights/day on the A319. I would be lying though if I said the folks at PHL were not more concerned about their own station. I will go as far to say PHL would have never happened (at least not nearly as soon as it did) if EWR was captured first on the VX dartboard. But I still say PDX is the wildcard because VX still has the best product on SFO-PHL even though the schedule blows where as PDX-SFO product doesn't nearly matter as much as frequency and connectivity options.


User currently offlineatct From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 50, posted (1 year 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5479 times:

Quoting SocalApproach (Reply 8):
If I recall B6 loves ANC because of all the $$$ to be made with freight which is why they even started ANC-SEA.

I have heard this from numerous people.

Quoting compliancecheck (Reply 30):
Not to hijack the thread but is the Q performing that badly for Horizon?

I have heard she likes the hangar a bit but if it was such a lacking aircraft as you imply, they wouldn't be flying it.

atct


User currently offlineRWA380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 51, posted (1 year 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5134 times:

Quoting SocalApproach (Reply 49):
It is more of a guess just from looking at the loads going up to PDX.

I know with 4 carriers on LAX-PDX, someone would have jumped anyway, so VX right after DL announces the route, jumps off. That was smart by VX since 1x daily would not compete. VX did add a SFO-PDX r/t for the LAX cancellation.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 48):
You realize yields SJC-LAX are higher than anything it would generate going East right?

Yup, but with 6 carriers flying the route, it's pretty obvious there are more financially advantageous places to utilize an aircraft.


User currently offlineDeltal1011man From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 52, posted (1 year 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5123 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 44):
A lot of those Northwest folk moved to Delta.

just a note, The SVP of network and CRO for Delta is a ex Delta guy.

Its not like Delta wasn't protective. Just ask jetBlue why they don't fly to ATL.......


User currently offlineN1120A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 53, posted (1 year 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5076 times:

Quoting SocalApproach (Reply 8):
Interesting, Even with the Q400 and the connection options in LAX, AS is pulling the plug as well.

The Q400 isn't competitive in a market where you have to compete with mainline.

Quoting SocalApproach (Reply 8):

Sounds alot like YYZ

A route I WISH they would bring back.

Quoting mikesairways (Reply 36):

I'm surprised UA hasn't either. I only see one flight today on their schedule.


UA does a lot of stupid things


User currently offlinelightsaber From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 54, posted (1 year 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4898 times:
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Not too much of a surprise.

Quoting mikesairways (Reply 4):
Sad to hear - while it was an over saturated route, QX/AS also pulling out in June. Just DL, AA, UA and WN to duke it out.

It was a six way competition?!? Wow, how can anyone make money on that route?!? Even a four way competition will be tough.

Quoting shengzhurou (Reply 32):

i thought VX service would be too premium for SJC LAX route

I would agree. The 'venture capital' firms tend to try and economize whenever possible (e.g., cheap short haul flights).

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 42):
VX isn't supposed to take delivery of any new aircraft until next year..second half of 2015 I believe, unless that's changed.

I fully expect LGA to have higher yield and thus the lack of aircraft growth will push VX to cut less optimal routes. Which is a good thing... better to build up some cash.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 52):
Its not like Delta wasn't protective. Just ask jetBlue why they don't fly to ATL.......

How many flights did DL go up to on LAX-ATL?    I remember vans advertising something like 21 flights per day (local SuperShuttle airport vans were painted in a DL add to sell their LAX-ATL service...). DL put flights right before and after every B6 flight to ensure B6 didn't last on the route.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 51):
Yup, but with 6 carriers flying the route, it's pretty obvious there are more financially advantageous places to utilize an aircraft.

Understatement...

Lightsaber


User currently onlineSFOA380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 55, posted (1 year 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4799 times:

Quoting OAKflyer (Reply 26):
Construction in an area does not necessarily mean an area is booming. Those constructed buildings could be built and sit empty. OAK & SJC have suffered since the economic recession of 2008. It looks like economic recovery has not happened.

It does around here. Costs are far too high for speculative building generally. Those who take the risk have very deep pockets. San Jose/SF Bay Area also has the nations highest median credit score so not too much keeping up with the Jones' around here. Google anything about growth, strongest office market, strongest housing market, hotel market, employment and income growth...the SF Bay Area is on fire.

I believe SJC at one time had the highest premium traffic percentage of any large city. Much of the pullback is of course due to the massive growth at SFO. I hope the SJC growth continues and I can't wait to see who the next foreign carrier will be...


User currently offlineOAKflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 56, posted (1 year 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4558 times:

Quoting SFOA380 (Reply 55):
I believe SJC at one time had the highest premium traffic percentage of any large city.

You said it best. At one time had. Had is in the past my friend. I live in the Bay Area, I live 3 miles near OAK. SFO has taken a lot of the domestic traffic from SJC & OAK. Jetblue choosing to expand at SFO and limit OAK. AA cutting back in SJC and focusing on SFO.

During the good times of the flourishing economy of the mid-2000s, OAK kept taking away LCC's from SFO. 14 Million passengers in the late 2000s for OAK and down to 10 Million now. One thing that would help SJC grow is public transportation like SFO and OAK (Airport Connector this year). Without greater infrastructure investment areas can be limited.

I have been down to the South Bay and the last few years, too many for lease signs and empty buildings for a booming area. Things will pick up. San Jose can't keep building like Emeryville (crazy building) and not build better infrastructure for it's residents.


User currently onlineSFOA380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 57, posted (1 year 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4274 times:

Correct - I know what tense I was using - LOL. My point is that it can come back again. The economy is actually far stronger now than it was during the period to which you refer. There's article on this very topic in today's business journal:

http://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/n...a-departure-san-jose.html?page=all


User currently offlineANA787 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 58, posted (1 year 1 week 5 days ago) and read 4137 times:

Quoting compliancecheck (Reply 30):
As for VX, this is sad to hear but good for them for taking loss-making flying out of the network. I, too, am interested to see what happens in PDX

Sorry to spoil it for you but PDX isn't going anywhere. In the past 5 months loads have really taken off. 3x daily PDX-SFO flights are now operating full (and its not even summer season yet). VX has really gained traction in the PDX market and I wouldn't be surprised to see LAX-PDX return soon.


User currently offlinelegacyins From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 59, posted (1 year 1 week 5 days ago) and read 4129 times:

AS is also dropping their SJC-LAX this May. If SJC cannot convince carriers to start transcon flights in this economic environment, then it looks like they never will, IMO.

User currently offlinelaca773 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 60, posted (1 year 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4037 times:
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Quoting N1120A (Reply 53):

UA does a lot of stupid things

They really do. SJC was all mainline before to DEN. Now what is it? One mainline a day with the rest being CRJ/CR7s? LAX is an after thought. I don't know how or why they keep it. Just like what UA did in the LAX-SEA/PDX market. Biggest excuse then was the retirement of the 733/735s, but they were still flying 757/A319/A320s on SEA in particular. Now those are flown with this horrid CRJs.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 54):
How many flights did DL go up to on LAX-ATL? I remember vans advertising something like 21 flights per day (local SuperShuttle airport vans were painted in a DL add to sell their LAX-ATL service...). DL put flights right before and after every B6 flight to ensure B6 didn't last on the route.

We can say the same about what UA did when VX started SFO-EWR/ORD. How many additional rotations did they add? Only thing is, VX is doing it's best to stick it out.

Quoting SFOA380 (Reply 55):
I believe SJC at one time had the highest premium traffic percentage of any large city. Much of the pullback is of course due to the massive growth at SFO. I hope the SJC growth continues and I can't wait to see who the next foreign carrier will be...

  


User currently offlineatct From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 61, posted (1 year 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3845 times:

Quoting laca773 (Reply 60):
Now those are flown with this horrid CRJs.

I believe this route, SEA-LAX, is going mainline this summer.

atct


User currently offlinelaca773 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 62, posted (1 year 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3637 times:
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Quoting atct (Reply 61):
believe this route, SEA-LAX, is going mainline this summer.

atct

It shows one CR2 in the morning and a evening A319. That's in the UA LAX-SEA nonstop market.


User currently offlineRWA380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 63, posted (1 year 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3133 times:

Quoting laca773 (Reply 62):
It shows one CR2 in the morning and a evening A319. That's in the UA LAX-SEA nonstop market.

A far cry from 1982, where all SEA/PDX-LAX flights on UA were mainline, 4 from PDX, 6 from SEA with one being a DC-10

http://www.departedflights.com/UA080182p50.html


User currently offlineTomassjc From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 64, posted (1 year 4 days ago) and read 2896 times:
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Quoting legacyins (Reply 59):

AS is also dropping their SJC-LAX this May.

It's now moved forward to April 5th....

Tomas SJC


User currently offlinelaca773 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 65, posted (1 year 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2683 times:
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Quoting Tomassjc (Reply 64):
It's now moved forward to April 5th....

Did they move it forward because of booking dropping off markedly, or are they pulling the a/c for heavy maintenance, etc?


User currently offlineTomassjc From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 66, posted (1 year 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2482 times:
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Quoting laca773 (Reply 65):
Did they move it forward because of booking dropping off markedly, or are they pulling the a/c for heavy maintenance, etc?

From what I understand, the route is costing them more than they're making. I'll just leave it a that!


User currently offlinemikesairways From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 67, posted (1 year 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2317 times:
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Quoting Tomassjc (Reply 66):
From what I understand, the route is costing them more than they're making. I'll just leave it a that!

Is AS planning on adding anything out of SJC? I bet they could do good on something like SAN...and what's with the funky GDL schedules for March?


User currently offlineTomassjc From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 68, posted (1 year 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2192 times:
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Quoting mikesairways (Reply 67):
Is AS planning on adding anything out of SJC? I bet they could do good on something like SAN...and what's with the funky GDL schedules for March?


Nothing new that I've heard of....if you don't count SLC starting in mid June. Yes, SAN would be nice!

GDL is doing the yearly month of March runway paving project, which takes place during late evening/ealry morning hours daily except Saturday. It opens for landings at 0445. Due to the time change from daylight savings locally, AS would have to leave SJC after midnight to land in GDL after the runway opening, thus breaking SJC curfew and incurring excessive addtional costs. So it was decided to operate the flight Saturday night only and a select few daytime frequencies. It will be back to nightly ops on April 5th.

[Edited 2014-03-25 21:12:02]

User currently offlinemikesairways From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 69, posted (1 year 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2072 times:
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That makes sense....and I've seen how heavy that flight goes out too.

I get why they are doing SJC-SLC as a way to stick it to DL, but i'm not so sure how long it will sustain, especially with the timing of the flights.

I certainly will miss seeing all the Q400's around here. I did SJC-SMF a few years ago before it ended. Too bad PSP hasn't come back this year.


User currently offlineBoeingGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 70, posted (1 year 3 days ago) and read 1839 times:

Quoting mikesairways (Reply 69):
I did SJC-SMF a few years ago before it ended. Too bad PSP hasn't come back this year.

AS isn't resuming SJC-PSP? That flight has been on and off several times over the years. I think SJC-SMF was just part of a circle routing to BOI. I'm sure AS wasn't targeting the SJC-SMF market in itself.

How safe is SJC-SJD? That's another one they've discontinued and resumed.

But I agree that AS's expansion at SJC seems to have stagnated. In fact, they seem to be going the other direction. AUS, GEG, PSP and LAX have come and went. TUS went longer ago.

I'd really like to see AS/QX start SJC-SNA. WN has a total monopoly on that market and I think it gets a lot of traffic.


User currently offlineFlighty From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 71, posted (1 year 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1763 times:

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 43):
It seems DL is not afraid of bleeding a little to thin the heard on certain routes.

If that's what they do, then DL can be sued for triple damages AFAIK, and the plaintiffs can become very rich.

A fare war is not "just a fare war" when it is between a mega carrier and a small carrier. The mega carrier needs to be price at a break-even profitability level or higher. Otherwise, it can match, but cannot initiate low fares - that would be called predatory "dumping." And they could be sued or punished by DOJ.


User currently offlineTomassjc From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 72, posted (1 year 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1747 times:
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Quoting mikesairways (Reply 69):
I certainly will miss seeing all the Q400's around here.

The Q400s will still be serving SJC. Daily double to RNO and 1X to both BOI and PDX.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 70):
How safe is SJC-SJD?

SJC-SJD stays year round with some frequency adjustments in the summer. Lots of local plus thru/connecting traffic from up north.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 70):
AS isn't resuming SJC-PSP?

SJC hasn't seen PSP for the past 2 winter seasons. I beleive there's enough service from SFO to satisfy the Bay Area market.


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