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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22  
User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 26
Posted (8 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 62271 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

Due to length part 21 was locked for further contributions. Please feel free to continue your discussion in part 22.

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B777-200ER missing enroute KUL-PEK (by Longhornmaniac Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2 (by LipeGIG Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 3 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 7 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines 772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 8 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 11 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13 (by SA7700 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14 (by SA7700 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 16 (by SA7700 Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17 (by 777ER Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 20 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)


A select few members have been making remarks towards others in the “Missing Malaysia Airlines 777 threads” for speculating about the fate of 9M-MRO, her crew and passengers. Given the fact that there is so much uncertainty going on at this stage, speculation is going to be a factor on this site and also at the biggest and greatest news corporations of the globe. At least until we all have a clearer picture. Is it a perfect situation – certainly not? That being said, we need to stay dynamic in a possible fast-changing situation.

It is not unique to this incident and if we go back in history and trace remarkable aviation events we will see that speculation has been an aspect, essential to some healthy debate. It is not the intention of the moderators to stifle the opinions of members that fall within the rules-and regulations of airliners.net. All that we kindly request from all our members is to stay within the site’s parameters. Please be respectful towards one another and let us all hope for the best possible outcome.


PLEASE KEEP IN MIND:


**** Out of respect to the crew, passengers and also family members; close to those onboard MH370; could we please keep science fiction theories and content related to possible future movie rights out of these threads? ****

**** Please do not repeat questions and scenarios that were covered and discussed in previous threads and which do not contribute in a constructive manner towards the real topic any longer. ****

**** Please make an effort to read through some of the threads, if possible the latest in the series, before adding your own comments and theories to the current, active thread on this issue. ****

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Enjoy the forums!

Regards and thanks for your co-operation,

SA7700


When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
264 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLTC8K6 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 62219 times:

Quoting tomlee (Reply 399):
The transponder is the critical thing to take out.

Why turn it off then? If you are going to change the transponder first, why not squawk 7600? That would add to the confusion a bit, and maybe gain you a little more time as ATC assumes you are having issues.

If you squawk 7600 first to indicate comm trouble, then when you do turn off the transponder, ATC is likely to be sure you are just having equipment problems, and will wait even longer for you to come back on line.

The only problem is that your fellow pilot will know you have changed the transponder code.

[Edited 2014-03-13 22:31:40]

User currently offlinestackhouse007 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 420 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (8 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 62068 times:
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Aren't there multiple pilots on the 777 though? So say one of the pilots that is not resting kills the other and follows through with the theory about ditching it into the Indian Ocean. Wouldn't the other pilots onboard enter the cockpit to assist in the "problem"? And yes the hijacking pilot could lock the door but if the other pilots are denied access, they would know something wasn't right.


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User currently offlinechrisrad From Australia, joined Dec 2000, 1071 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (8 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 62084 times:

Quoting stackhouse007 (Reply 2):
Aren't there multiple pilots on the 777 though? So say one of the pilots that is not resting kills the other and follows through with the theory about ditching it into the Indian Ocean. Wouldn't the other pilots onboard enter the cockpit to assist in the "problem"? And yes the hijacking pilot could lock the door but if the other pilots are denied access, they would know something wasn't right.

For a 5.5 hour flight? I doubt it, can someone confirm?



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User currently offlinetomlee From Canada, joined Aug 2010, 349 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (8 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 62076 times:

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 1):

That is the same question I have if they were doing things deliberately the transponder being turned off or altered to cause confusion would be the first thing to do. Going down and messing around in the electronics bay to shut off the engine maintenance reports doesn't make any sense. At best it would be done in the right order (mess around or turn off transponder) then go mess around with the electronics bay.

The order in which thing are claimed to have been disabled doesn't make sense.


User currently offlineCoal From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2113 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (8 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 61934 times:

Quoting stackhouse007 (Reply 2):
Aren't there multiple pilots on the 777 though?

On this route I am pretty sure there's only a Captain and a FO. You can check the crew records, only two were listed as "Technical Crew".

Cheers
Coal



Nxt Flts: VA SYD-LAX | VX LAX-FLL | B6 FLL-BOG-FLL | VX FLL-LAX | VA LAX-SYD | VA SYD-PER-SYD
User currently offlineYVRLTN From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 2532 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 62019 times:

Tweets from Jon Ostrower in the last 4 hours:

1) Last ping from MH370 came "at least 5h" after vanishing, last one cruising alt over water

2) We dont know where MH370 last pinged Inmarsat's satellite constellation, but there certainly are people who do

3) Each ping that came from the 777's SATCOM included GPS, altitude & speed data

Finally he retweeted MH's own tweet - we're fully aware of the on going speculations, however we have no new leads on the situation

Also heard on the news just now the US Navy are sending a vessel to a certain spot in the Indian Ocean - a coincidence with Jon's tweet 2 above?



Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
User currently offlineflyenthu From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 379 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 61933 times:
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Quoting stackhouse007 (Reply 2):

Two pilots common in 5-6 hr flights.


User currently offlinenm2582 From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 124 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 61973 times:

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 1):
Why turn it off then? If you are going to change the transponder first, why not squawk 7600? That would add to the confusion a bit, and maybe gain you a little more time as ATC assumes you are having issues.

If you squawk 7600 first to indicate comm trouble, then when you do turn off the transponder, ATC is likely to be sure you are just having equipment problems, and will wait even longer for you to come back on line.

I would think that this would bring a lot of unwanted attention, if indeed your goal was to disappear. ATC would ask other aircraft to try and contact you, might get other radar sources to track you, would alert authorities... Much better to vanish, just like they did - it worked very well for them, don't you think? The only thing that has spoiled their disappearance is the satellite pings.


User currently offlinestackhouse007 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 420 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (8 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 61946 times:
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chrisrad, that's what I would think too but I'm not sure if the 777 always has multiple flight crews or if it's truly based on the duration of the flight.


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User currently offlineflyenthu From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 379 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 61799 times:
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Quoting tomlee (Reply 395):

Good points. Why the gap in time between ACARS and transponder shutdowns if becoming invisible is the idea, especially when the transponder dial is right there?

Also, did the plane go off radar just after reaching cruising altitude? Is there any significance to that in light of what we are currently learning?


User currently offlinetimothy31388 From Malaysia, joined May 2008, 19 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 61789 times:

Quoting stackhouse007 (Reply 2):

As this particular flight was less then 8 hours, no extra set of flightcrew was needed.



TJJINDI
User currently offlinestackhouse007 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 420 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (8 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 61674 times:
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Now do we know if this specific crew would normally conduct this exact flight? Curious if these pilots knew the exact time and path they could take to disappear from radar..


Nikon D60: 18-55mm - 55-200mm / Canon 50D: 100-400mm
User currently offlineflyenthu From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 379 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 61576 times:
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Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 6):

Have a gut feeling that investigators are closing in on this.


User currently offlinesipadan From United States of America, joined Mar 2014, 333 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 61149 times:

Quoting flyenthu (Reply 10):
Good points. Why the gap in time between ACARS and transponder shutdowns if becoming invisible is the idea, especially when the transponder dial is right there?

because he wasn't going to kill the transponder until after hand off..this is what is most crucial...tampering with ACARS at the reported time could have simply been opportunistic (convenient) at that moment considering he had to contend with the "problem" of the FO. Also, this guy knew that he would most likely be successful in disappearing regardless. Lots and lots of practice!!!


User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6475 posts, RR: 32
Reply 15, posted (8 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 61114 times:
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Quoting stackhouse007 (Reply 2):
Aren't there multiple pilots on the 777 though?

Depends on the airline but MH for this stage length uses only two. Only the longest ULH flights these days carry four pilots on an 2 pilot airliner. The usual for a long range flight is three. Even LH FRA-EZE nowadays is three pilots. Before 2012 it was four.


User currently offlinesipadan From United States of America, joined Mar 2014, 333 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 61059 times:

Quoting stackhouse007 (Reply 12):
Now do we know if this specific crew would normally conduct this exact flight? Curious if these pilots knew the exact time and path they could take to disappear from radar..

ah, yeah...pilot only had a flight simulator in his home and had been flying 777 for over 15 years, that route extensively!!!!!!!


User currently offlinestackhouse007 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 420 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (8 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 60871 times:
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As a flight sim enthusiast as well, I think that comment is absolutely ridiculous.


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User currently offlinetomlee From Canada, joined Aug 2010, 349 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (8 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 60844 times:

Quoting sipadan (Reply 16):

That doesn't explain why he would do it though he could just be really into planes.


User currently offlineEnobar From Australia, joined Mar 2014, 26 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 60869 times:

oops... just missed the other thread getting locked...

repost:

Just as an aside.. for anyone wondering why the passengers didn't make any calls; in the scenario where the plane was hijacked i'm sure the system would have been turned off.

If the plane was in mechanical trouble, I can just put it out there that I have flown on the MH 772's many times, and have made calls off of them (mainly for the fun of it) and I can tell you that the system is far from user friendly - if the plane was in serious trouble and you were a bit panicked with possibly not a lot of time on your hands to make the call I wouldn't be surprised if no one got a chance.


User currently offlinetomlee From Canada, joined Aug 2010, 349 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (8 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 60662 times:

Quoting sipadan (Reply 14):
because he wasn't going to kill the transponder until after hand off..this is what is most crucial...tampering with ACARS at the reported time could have simply been opportunistic (convenient) at that moment considering he had to contend with the "problem" of the FO. Also, this guy knew that he would most likely be successful in disappearing regardless. Lots and lots of practice!!!

No tampering with the ACARS would be difficult, non-trivial, and clearly non-opportunistic as mentioned previously. If someone tried to mess around in the EE bay that would make it really easy to get caught.


User currently offlinetomlee From Canada, joined Aug 2010, 349 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (8 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 60502 times:

Quoting Enobar (Reply 19):

The same problem (electrical) that would have knocked out ACARS would likely kill the phones as well. Both systems are not critical and if there was a problem they would be knocked out far easier than more important things.


User currently offlineShmendr From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 9 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 60379 times:

Theory: Pilot attempt to conceal evidence of a suicide. Possible reason = life insurance for family.

Two questions about the 772's CVR/FDR.
1. How long do the two black boxes record for before overriding previously recorded information?
2. Can the two black boxes be simply turned off by pulling a circuit breaker?

Looks much more likely like a pilot suicide than a hijacking with an attempt to hide evidence. Pilot incapacitates his colleague, attempt to make the plane disappear, and then flies the plane long enough for all recordings from earlier to be deleted so that there will be no evidence of a suicide.

In 1997, NTSB determined that Silk Air 185 pilot manually turned off the CVR when he got up to go to the restroom, so perhaps the MH370 pilot wanted to avoid doing that in case the two boxes are recovered. Instead, he simply flew the plane long enough for the recording to be deleted and then allowed the plane to run out of fuel over the Indian Ocean.

I wouldn't be surpassed if it will be determined that he made circles in order to avoid going over land and, at the same time, to avoid making any maneuvers that would make it seem like a purposeful act, such as a nose dive.

Sounds like a pilot wanted to hide evidence of a suicide and reminds me of Auburn Calloway who attempted to hijack FedEx 705 flight in 1994 with the use of a speargun instead of a normal gun. Calloway believed that if he inflicted blunt trauma to the head of the crew, instead of shooting the crew, and then crashed the plane, the NTSB / FBI would never be able to diagnose the cause of the blunt trauma to the head and diagnose the crash as an accident.

Before the hijacking, Calloway purchased life insurance for his family and wanted to make the crash seem like a work-related accident in order for the family to be financially compensated. In fact, on a final note, the first airplane bomb in the US occurred in 1955 on UAL 629 when a Jack Graham placed a bomb in his mother's suitcase, who was a passenger on the plane. Graham purchased a life insurance for his mother right at the airport, when he took her to the plane.

So, first thing I would investigate, is whether the two pilots purchased life insurance for their next of kin.

Thoughts?


User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1488 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (8 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 60368 times:

I've been following this VERY long thread (is it a record for A.net?) and i've also been following the news online and on TV.

I have no idea what has happened to this 777 and all 200+ people onboard, but more and more leads me to believe of some sort of cover up and not any airplane malfunction.

This entire situation can be described in 4 words: "This is f***ed up!"


User currently offlineWolger From Malaysia, joined Mar 2014, 12 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 60218 times:

Latest news: Some new mass knife attack in China.

25 LTC8K6 : Yes. That's exactly why they did it the way they did, and didn't turn the transponder off early.
26 tomlee : Except they went through the effort of turning off ACARS first and then took ten minutes to turn off the transponder. ACARS/SATCOM wasn't even discov
27 coolian2 : I don't consider the Captain's enjoyment of Flight Sim an issue at this stage. He might be the kind of guy who made his passion his job. Just because
28 sipadan : It's not ridiculous in the context of the incident. With all due respect, as a stand alone artifact in attribution of guilt, it would have no signifi
29 tomlee : Even using google search histories can make people look like they are doing horrible things or have multiple conditions at once. The simulator at hom
30 tomlee : I don't understand what your trying to say. Just because a situation has many unknowns we should be pointing fingers at random points which make no s
31 spacecadet : In the AF447 accident, authorities released transcripts of the ACARS data on June 4, which means they surely had it days before that. I seem to recal
32 LTC8K6 : I'm guessing that info might be incorrect and ACARS was not actually turned off at all during the flight to IGARI.
33 Post contains links jetfuel : http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2014-03/14/c_133186204.htm BEIJING, March 14 (Xinhua) -- Chinese researchers have detected a "seafloor event"
34 robk : And how is he going to get from their last known position out over the sea on the north side of the Malaysian peninsular to the Indian ocean without
35 tomlee : Apparently some Chinese researchers claim to have a "sea floor anomaly" in the non-seismic region between Malaysia and Vietnam with a time frame consi
36 stackhouse007 : Sipadan, why do you keep assuming its the captain? Maybe the first officer was suicidal and stabbed the man who actually loved his job.. Stop making s
37 tomlee : I'm guessing we shouldn't be guessing so much. I'm just going off what I'm reading.
38 AR385 : Common misconception. Life insurance for pilots is not your average life insurance. It´s not like your average Joe that can come up and buy a policy
39 Post contains images KIAS : Because he didn't. Data was sent and received during the flight, up to a certain point. This insinuates the entire flight deck was "in on it" and I h
40 tomlee : ACARS still isn't a very good "real time" system as it isn't indented to provide tracking and radar information. The fact it contains positioning dat
41 cabochris : Why is there no more info about the Kiwi oil rig worker, who claimed to have seen a falling "fire ball"...
42 nm2582 : Pick one: (A) completely unrelated. (B) guy on the oil rig saw a meteorite, this "seafloor event" is the meteorite impacting the ocean (C) attempt at
43 BruceSmith : Posting late response to CheezWiz from Part 21 Those three objects could be surface cruising whales which would explain the indistinct look, if you l
44 Wolger : Please check the NZ passport no. if it's legit or not. I just feel not.
45 coolian2 : That doesn't seem like an utter over-reaction and violation of privacy, for simply saying he MIGHT have seen something?
46 stackhouse007 : Sipadan, why do you continue to point fingers at the captain? Why not the FO?
47 tomlee : Didn't his employer verify that though?
48 rickabone : Question... If a pilot of a B777 wanted to incapacitate the passengers, could they slowly depressurize the cabin and cause everyone to pass out withou
49 tomlee : They would have to put on the masks the pressure is the same throughout the pressure tube (cabin+cockpit). (Tube being the plane basically)
50 cabochris : Can you explain further? I have been out of reality, I'm assuming this lead is also now in the Sh*t bucket like everything else...
51 Shmendr : He very well may pop on radar screen, but that doesn't stop him from trying to hide evidence by overriding the blackbox via long uneventful flight. W
52 undertheradar : and just proves how 'fractured' the passing on of info is between 'authorities' ... so this very unusual 'sea floor' event occurred 7days ago..and th
53 tomlee : Don't FDRs have much longer record times than CVRs? Isn't it long enough for the longest flight possible plus a bit for an FDR.
54 tomlee : To be fair it might also take some time to make sense of recordings in the ocean to figure out that there was an event. Right now we don't need any m
55 nm2582 : I believe it is two hours. Whomever did this is more than sharp enough to have pulled the breaker on the CVR if they so chose. Whatever is found on t
56 Wolger : I might have missed out on the news of his passport no. verification. Is there any? Too many 8's and it's kind of short.
57 infinitybeyond : Lurker and first time poster. Was introduced into the investigations of incidents back in the college days in Engineering school. It's been fascinatin
58 coolian2 : Again, why does it matter, and also, it's exactly under the NZ passport format. Given my number I would believe it to be real.
59 KIAS : No. If the outflow valves were manually opened on any passenger jet and the cabin depressurized, masks would drop. I don't think it sounds credible a
60 undertheradar : was just making as observation re that particular post....makes no difference to me...I still think the plane went down in the Indian Ocean... re my
61 Post contains images JimJupiter : No, it sounds like and Part 21 is totally unreadable, let's do it better in Part 22!
62 sipadan : okay, after being COMPLETELY dismissive of the flight sim even POSSIBLY having any significance (and the idea that all pilots that have a flight sim
63 tomlee : Given how confusing the media reports are don't really know what to think. It could have crashed in either area and now we have two reports of someth
64 chaseus1 : One guy mentioned that phone calls may have been difficult to make on a regular flight, so maybe no need to incapacitate passengers... I was thinking
65 JimJupiter : Even their experts currently looking at raw data can't conclude anything with any certainty. What help would it be to throw some incomprihensible dat
66 tomlee : Then we can see just how confusing it really is, instead of having them say it suggests this and that but doesn't confirm anything.
67 Post contains images Speedbird128 : Absolutely absolutely wrong. It alerts us to problems and we are even more alert to it going missing. Just the slightest thing out of the ordinary an
68 CaliAtenza : saw this being discussed on a Indian defense forum, but i'd never heard of these islands before: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocos_(Keeling)_Islands
69 rcair1 : Okay one more try. They did not turn off ACARS 10 minutes before the transponder - on this ship the ACARS data was from the engines and it only transm
70 AR385 : The fact that you know about them, rules them out as a shelter for the missing 777.
71 CaliAtenza : i just read the wikipedia article on the islands...i had no idea what they were before.
72 SXDFC : So let me get this straight, in this a-net twilight zone of a topic, so far we have this.. A Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777-2H6ER ( 9M-MRO ) departed K
73 Post contains images JimJupiter : Would you mind posting an up to date version of the check here in pt. 22?
74 jcxroberts : . OK, this is the second time China has thrown out evidence that is contrary to the flow of the investigation. I don't buy the 'mistake' they made on
75 jcxroberts : It's a Chinese 'base' leased from Burma. You couldn't take off with a 777 from there though in my opinion. I don't know.[Edited 2014-03-14 00:37:39]
76 Post contains images AR385 : I seriously doubt much havoc has been wrought upon a.net. This week´s number of new members must be breaking records. [Edited 2014-03-14 00:41:43]
77 CaliAtenza : but according to the wiki article its an Australian territory. Why would China have a base there.
78 tomlee : I've stated before I don't really believe the news story myself. I was just stating that under the presumption that their US government source someho
79 coolian2 : No chance. An airport served by the likes of VA/DJ is going to notice a 777.
80 CaliAtenza : yeah i figured....what other islands are out that way...that could conceivablely not notice a 777.
81 slinky09 : You are much more knowledgeable than I, and at the same time the Twitter chatter seems to be getting more definitive. Messages containing location, a
82 Tobias2702 : Does anyone really believe a 777 could have landed on Australian territory without anyone noticing for a week?! CCK sees regular scheduled flights fr
83 jcxroberts : Sorry, there are the Coco islands (which I referred to) and the Cocos (which you referred to).
84 tomlee : Technically speaking if it was just the modem sending network management data it might not ever make very far and they might have gone digging pretty
85 coolian2 : My expertise is the Pacific, I just knew of the VA ops there. I'd grant an advanced group could probably pay off a small enough island to not notice,
86 CaliAtenza : ah okay. Is there an airstrip there? The wiki article on the Coco Islands didn't mention that there was.
87 tomlee : Except keeping the 777 in a vanished state through a landing and take-off gets progressively harder vs. it just vanishing over open waters. The more
88 Speedbird128 : No. Military data shared with analytics partners doesn't need to be distributed to the entire world. If these professionals (and they are likely the
89 CaliAtenza : i was looking at an article about airstrips in the Maldives; there are more than a few there, but all of them other than MLE seem way too small for a
90 tomlee : I think the Malaysians are doing a good job. And its not the military radar track data really but the plain text from the ACARS, and satcom which wou
91 coolian2 : Exactly. I was being somewhat facetious, but I agree with the idea. I can't see the US Navy throwing a boat at a point in the Indian Ocean for laughs
92 infinitybeyond : I think they may not mean exactly that SATCOM Pings contain altitude, heading and speed, just that some information regarding the location of the pla
93 slinky09 : Yes there is, plenty big enough for a 777 (runway is 8,009 ft). But that's not to add fuel to the fire, if MH370 did touch down anywhere, where are t
94 koruman : I believe that I wrote this two threads ago, or something very similar. My guess is that the aircraft was hijacked, but not to Nanning civilian airpo
95 2008matt : Just wondering, if the plane was hijacked, why would they fly to a Chinese Military Base?
96 tomlee : I think inmarsat's SwiftBroadband coverage map would show that even if it didn't transmit position data it would have to be inside one of the many be
97 nupogodi : There is no need for that for a communications satellite.
98 Post contains links Owleye : MH370 passenger (uighur) Maimaitijiang Abula OR Yasheng Maimaitijiang followed flight sim lessons in Sweden... Source: AD and Harian Metro http://www.
99 Wolger : Where is the source for this?
100 Post contains images Starlionblue : If I'm remembering correctly (because I can't be arsed to check my study material), the regulatory minimums are 25 hours for DFDR and 30 minutes for
101 asteriskceo : There is an approx. 4,400x100ft runway on Great Coco Island[Edited 2014-03-14 01:13:48]
102 liquidair : yeah, but that's a big leap from Sims to actually pulling this sh#t off... mandala, you asked why does everyone think this is hijack... On my part, i
103 Post contains links tomlee : Just google, Maimaitijiang Abula followed flight sim lessons in Sweden Highly conflicting information one article says he was a researcher at a cente
104 Post contains links Owleye : Source: AD and Harian Metro http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/30360/verdwen...-Chinese-Oeigoerse-passagier.dhtml
105 koruman : Because apart from 9/11, hijackers usually can't fly airplanes and so rely upon the pilot and air traffic control to land the plane. And as a youngst
106 CaliAtenza : ah okay, good to know. But i don't think the plane went up that far....or then again, i dont know.
107 Post contains links ushermittwoch : Where does this name come from? He's not on the pax list from MH's website. http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/cont...ssenger%20Manifest_Nationality.pdf
108 Post contains links infinitybeyond : CV is available here... http://eng.zirve.edu.tr/files/cv_mamatjan.pdf I am pretty sure "Saab Training and Simulation, Sweden" is not equivalent to fl
109 tomlee : Yeah the news is a bit crazy, lets not go around saying because your an electrical engineer your the cause of all the problems on a plane. Plus he se
110 Starlionblue : You are quite right, especially when you look at what he was doing. None of that indicates that he was doing pilot training. SAAB is a big company. R
111 Post contains links AngMoh : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore_Airlines_Flight_117 SQ117 Hijack: assault by SWAT. 4 hijackers dead, 2 pax injured, 121 pax and crew uninjured.
112 Tobias2702 : "MH370 passenger (uighur) Maimaitijiang Abula followed flight sim lessons in Sweden..." Thank you for this observation.
113 sipadan : You cannot definitively say this. While I agree with the premise and understand the rationale behind this assertion, it is flat out wrong. Unless you
114 tomlee : Hmmm, it seems like the military radar data is saying that it was flying on established routes. "corridors identified on maps used by pilots as N571 a
115 ushermittwoch : There is an "A" Maimaitijiang on the list. So that could mean Abdula. But that would also not make him Yasheng Maimaitijiang.
116 Wolger : The news in the Malay Mail was published just before yesterday's PC, and the minister had denied the probes into the crew members were taking place. T
117 Post contains images RyanairGuru : I realise that this was addressed already, but to reiterate the Cocos (Keeling) Islands are Australian territory. Among other things there is an Aust
118 coolian2 : Please stop. Or if not stop, at least come across more rationally, please.
119 Post contains links jcxroberts : EXCLUSIVE: Radar data suggests missing Malaysia plane flown deliberately toward Andamans - sources "Two sources said an unidentified aircraft that inv
120 Post contains links flood : (link please) Reuters reported similar: "Military radar-tracking evidence suggests a Malaysia Airlines jetliner missing for nearly a week was deliber
121 Post contains links tomlee : He didn't do flight sim essons he did research in simulations on subjects unrelated to airplane simulation. http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/malaysi...at
122 Post contains links asteriskceo : I believed he had them confused with the Coco Islands. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coco_Islands
123 Post contains links ThunderboltDrgn : There is an Indian air force base on a neighbouring Island so Coco would hardly be a good place to hide a 777. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andaman_an
124 Starlionblue : The man has 18000+ hours. While you can always hone your skills, I don't think he will get any big leaps in proficiency in a home sim. His kind of se
125 Post contains links noflies : News now saying that there's evidence the aircraft deliberately flown towards Andaman Islands. Ref here: http://www.themalaymailonline.com/ma...own-to
126 tomlee : Many major news sites are reporting the same thing. I wonder if all the other countries in the path will share their data in piecing together what ha
127 sipadan : Rules out the pilot Why is it irrational to suggest that he may have used the flight sim to even further hone his skills in the event of possible lan
128 CaliAtenza : oh boyy, that puts Coco Island back into play; Coco Island is just north of the Andamans.
129 Post contains images asteriskceo : A shady island in the Andaman sea with allegations that China leases it from Burma for a secret base, with a runway conceivably long enough to land a
130 Post contains links ThunderboltDrgn : The article also says that they had fuel for another 7 hours at the time of the disappearance. If they flying at a speed of 450knots that would give
131 coolian2 : Because I play Flight Sim plenty, and the only time I was never a rubbish real life pilot was after several weeks of glider training. It's simply not
132 liquidair : hmmm... Like the other 'revelations' i await the press conference this morning to gun down this information too. if it were the case, however, somebo
133 aw70 : Given that it indeed seems like an intentional abduction event now, here is one possibility that could make the whole thing even more complicated. I'v
134 Post contains images RyanairGuru : Got that now, thanks for the heads up What time would they have been in the area? I'm guessing it would be about 4 hours after they disappeared, so r
135 Post contains images flyingturtle : These are quite some developments. I hope things will clear up even more in the following days! I suppose the US and/or China are helping Malaysia wit
136 Post contains links noflies : A Reuters article talks in detail about waypoints they apparently reached. http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...t&utm_medium=twitter&dlvrit
137 tomlee : I think the Malaysian radar track stopped not because it dropped out of the sky but was simply out of range. We will have to wait and see what the ne
138 psolk : Long long time lurker first time poster. The assumption that because he had a flight simulation setup at home it somehow incriminates him or means it
139 CaliAtenza : yes sorry ladies and gents, i had Cocos confused with Coco. So wow, Andamans huh. I don't know how the Indian Navy could have missed it, but they may
140 flyingturtle : Let's suppose the MH370 crew would have used night vision goggles - would they have been picked up at the airport security check? Would they have bee
141 tomlee : I sure hope they at least have the radar data recorded.
142 Post contains links asteriskceo : Unless of course their arrival was expected. Edit: Ah. You mean at KUL. I should say that I was mocking the more "far out" theories by trying to crea
143 aw70 : I was not referring to the actual disappearance. That was indeed due to getting out of range. Rather, what I described would be useful to go *elsewhe
144 a/c dxer : Had 7 1/2 hours of fuel based on going to PEK. Going to the Southwest should be shorter due to winds.
145 tomlee : Can planes commercial planes actually do tight formation flight wouldn't it be a bit/very bumpy and hard to control due to wake turbulence if you tri
146 rfields5421 : Not quite. There were no 'transcripts'. The initial reports from Air France where that some unusual ACARS messages had been received. And explanation
147 jcxroberts : I can't see this plane going over India undetected.
148 sipadan : okay, thanks for the flight simulator clarifications. I'll absolutely defer to your opinions on the matter. I have no idea as what you are referring
149 flood : The articles only state they flew towards the Andamans, ie they may have turned West around the halfway mark. India is said to be deploying some of t
150 aw70 : You'd probably pick the same spot that fighters use to hide in a radar shadow - which is incidentally the same spot they use as middle refuelling pos
151 Post contains links CaliAtenza : How much do we know about Coco Island? Other than this Wiki entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coco_Island man this is turning into a mystery novel w
152 theaviator380 : Is it possible to have link for full pax list please? someone did paste it before but it's not working. Thank you.[Edited 2014-03-14 02:22:47]
153 Post contains links flood : Press conference is scheduled to begin in around 5 minutes, provided no delays: http://www.astroawani.com/
154 Post contains links flood : http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/cont...ssenger%20Manifest_Nationality.pdf
155 Post contains links and images ThunderboltDrgn : Yeah I remember that it had been posted before although the article of The Malay Mail Online said that they would another 7 hours of fuel. Could be a
156 Post contains links asteriskceo : I don't think we know very much about the Coco Islands. There has been a lot of speculation regarding who actually owns it, and for what purpose. Fou
157 garpd : Time to re-task some satellites and take some pictures around and of the Andaman Islands then?
158 Post contains images CaliAtenza : That map you posted, thank you btw , doesn't seem to me like the depiction of a plane out of control; in fact, it seems like a plane very much in con
159 456 : Press conference has started (on CNN)
160 jcxroberts : So were they (whoever they are) after plane or what was on the plane ?
161 liquidair : on the link you provided there's a headline about Diego Garcia... Can somebody translate that article? What does it mean?
162 456 : Surprisingly he will not confirm anything which is said by unnamed officials yesterday
163 Speedbird128 : I'll start here. Please include all the facts to avoid feeding the misinformation in this thread. Primary radar is analog. Yes. The primary target di
164 asteriskceo : No evidence of the aircraft was shot down from Diego Garcia.
165 infinitybeyond : If the a/c had flown for another 4 hours since the disappearance as stated by US officials, then we should be looking further away than Coco Islands..
166 Post contains links koruman : So to sum up the latest geopolitical developments....... The Andaman Islands mainly belong to India and lie midway between Malaysia and India, south o
167 CaliAtenza : I'm confident that if the plane landed somewhere, it wasn't the Andamans because that's Indian territory and Indian forces are present everywhere. All
168 canadiantree : Absolutely no new info from the press conference...
169 liquidair : thank you. i didn't even realise that was being contemplated....
170 theaviator380 : Thanks mate.
171 456 : I have been looking to this press conferences every day now and I have learned to 'read between the lines'. They are much better than some days ago!
172 cuban8 : If you want to disappear and never be found (after a suicide), the Andaman Sea makes quite some sense. The depth of the sea is averaging 1096 m up to
173 noflies : Seems to be a morale speech - yes we're doing everything possible and we're cooperating with everyone, and we cant tell you more because nothing is c
174 asteriskceo : They seem to have hinted that they have a possible fix, but are awaiting U.S. Satellite confirmation. Did anyone read it like that?
175 s5daw : I I learned anything reading this monster thread is that human brain is desperate for answers, and if there aren't any, it will produce the most bizar
176 CaliAtenza : Man if i wake up tomorrow and hear CNN talking about Coco Island, then it will have taken a new twist...
177 a/c dxer : To me that would be in fuel starvation range depending on the Altitude. IMO looking more likely a depressurization problem and the crew accidentally
178 asteriskceo : Unless he went the long way around, or went very low and very slow? Or if the aircraft/engines weren't powered off after landing? I admit that I soun
179 liquidair : initially that made more sense then anything... But the 777 has so much redundancy built-in, that seems unlikely. plus, even without comms, they woul
180 Post contains links flyingturtle : Not an issue, if the crews are trained for it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aS21gewC7oY It will be very tiresome, though. Very tiresome. David
181 tomlee : I think the same thing and the human brain is really good at matching patterns even if there isn't a pattern to match. Class D fire? could also affec
182 slinky09 : Agreed. It would seem that. The minister was quite clear that any data that may be in evidence is not from the engines, so we must assume that it ari
183 tomlee : Even if trained I doubt it is very safe/reliable to fly that close for hours and hours, one little mistake and it would be pretty either obvious or d
184 rfields5421 : That's not what I've understood. No one in the US government has officially said the aircraft systems responded to pings for another 4 hours. Some pe
185 garpd : But these are completely unrelated incidents, supposing your theory is correct for a moment. The only similarity the Egyptair incident and your theor
186 canadiantree : There we go again with the flight simulator bull crap...
187 asteriskceo : He keeps saying that the only reason that the search is being extended to the Straits of Malacca/Andaman Sea is that because they have exhausted the i
188 Pihero : I am totally bemused. The amount of uninformed drivel, conspiracy theories, racist remarks is baffling, even more so than the disappearance of flight
189 tomlee : Didn't they say they extended eastward as well? or did I mishear something.
190 skopsko : Questions: 1. If transponder is crucial, why manufacturers have the option to turn it off? In what situations would a pilot want the transponder turne
191 Post contains links s5daw : Errr.... yes, the only similarity is the fire. One T7 was on the ground, the other was flying. The fact that Egyptian T7 was on the ground was a pure
192 tomlee : 1) It makes sense to be able to turn it off for a number of reasons. 2) Only if it lands in one piece roughly speaking of course.
193 asteriskceo : It's not so much a situation in the air, but many airports require that transponders are put in the standby position while on the ground to avoid clu
194 rfields5421 : If, big if, the aircraft were purposely diverted - 'very safe' and 'reliable' are pretty much out the window to describe anything about what happened
195 tomlee : Well I'm more talking about how it might be improbable that they maintained a tight follow formation as to avoid radar detection. If it was a bit dan
196 ComeAndGo : Do they have a general location or plot on a map? How does this location compare to the "fire in the sky" witness report by the oil rig worker ? How
197 ptcflyer : If I were conducting investigation, I would check out the Captains personal flight simulator computer looking for logs of his practice simulator activ
198 coolian2 : So the website that constantly bashes people who have fun with a computer game suddenly think this is plausible?
199 Post contains images Speedbird128 : It's exactly what I wrote. I am familiar with the equipment I use, thanks. Hence I went on to talk about plot extractors and so forth. I was primaril
200 rfields5421 : They have made two big public 'mistakes' early in the search process. A Thai admiral on Sunday was the first to say that they were searching off the
201 na : From all I read about this, the most reliable and relatively up-to-date source is avherald. They are posting the relevant, and say whats irrelevant or
202 garpd : Both pilots were fully qualified to be sat in that cockpit. Or at the very least, both held an ATPL. What makes you think they needed a "Home flight
203 skopsko : 1. Can you name a few reasons? 2. So we can assume the airplane crash landed?
204 Post contains links Tobias2702 : From the latest avherald update (Friday, Mar 14th 2014 10:18Z): "Two oil slicks have been discovered near the position of last contact, one of these
205 tomlee : 1) Others already posted, on the ground it makes sense to turn it off to reduce clutter and almost any system can be turned off on a plane. In the ai
206 tomlee : The news conference said the one oil slick with tiny amounts of jetfuel is not believed to be significant and the other is unrelated.
207 timothy31388 : The acting transport minister said that while the slick contained a tiny bit of jet fuel, it was not linked to MH370.
208 456 : Why would someone who has bad intentions, fly via waypoints :S[Edited 2014-03-14 03:38:44]
209 ivanoruvan : I'm new to this forum and glad to be part of it (like most of the recent new members, I started following this forum post MH370. I've been following t
210 aw70 : I should have been clearer in what I originally wrote. Of course there is nowadays a layer of digital processing between the analog input from the an
211 liquidair : surely any oil or fuel would have dispersed by now? and they only just noticed? And they've already tested it for jet fuel? pihero, I'm agreeing that
212 rfields5421 : They are in the navigation computers and easy to program a flight path rather than having to actually navigate while flying at night. Old school navi
213 affirmative : Is there anyone here that have knowledge regarding the ACARS and SATCOM functionality? Since MH doesn't subscribe to the ACARS for airframe but for th
214 asteriskceo : Perhaps not to raise suspicion for anyone watching on a military/primary radar. They probably just thought it was routine traffic flying on routine c
215 tomlee : I would venture a guess that if they put in a fully IP connected system for every device with zero airgap between the public internet it would be hac
216 murchmo : To throw everyone off to the point we are now still searching and for days searching what could be the wrong area. So by the time the do what they wa
217 456 : Well IF and only IF that is what they wanted, they have unfortunately a very good result with this...
218 N328KF : This whole thing makes me wonder (turn on hypothetical mode). What would have been different to this point had the aircraft in question been an A330 w
219 s5daw : No... we are not a federation as US is. We don't have an EU army. Which makes us weaker, unfortunately.
220 theaviator380 : If you are experienced FA and if you notice flight has been deviated from original path, would they not raise any alarm? assume it wasn't done by terr
221 456 : Not to speak about the passengers. How to get them quiet for several hrs...
222 N328KF : It was dark outside. By letting them continue to sleep.
223 Dalavia : If the maps have been turned off, it's dark and you are preparing a drinks or meal service, I doubt that you would notice a deviation in the course,
224 theaviator380 : Yes I know it was dark outside, it's obvious. Yeah...It's so difficult to imagine, what kind of situation these pax and crew must have gone through.
225 MarcoT : Because it is the way that things are... To this day there's still debate around what the Ustica tapes shows and what they does not show! And since w
226 art : How would they deduce that the flight has been deviated from original path? Airliners do not fly thousands of miles on one bearing from A to B. Howev
227 Post contains images MarcoT : It was lost in the noise, but they said earlier (yesterday or two days ago) that *they handed their raw military radar data tapes to US and China*...
228 peterinlisbon : A thought that just struck me, is that if the captain's last communication was when it checked out of Malaysian airspace, and immediately afterwards t
229 Post contains links liquidair : http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...s-to-the-indian-ocean-live-updates The Guardian is running live updates, well worth reading
230 Post contains images ranold76 : Singapore Today Twitter update: https://twitter.com/sgify/status/444421777280614400 hmmmm....[Edited 2014-03-14 04:53:33]
231 Post contains images Starlionblue : You did indeed say this, but you didn't tell us why you think it is relevant. I, for one, fail to see the relevance of his being an atheist. Pleased
232 Post contains images Starlionblue : I would estimate not even one pax in 1000 would notice. Not to mention them being asleep. Not to mention the still ongoing TWA800 debate, or the "did
233 LandSweetLand : Assuming the flight attendants are not too busy to notice, and the passengers aren't asleep, it'd require them to be familiar with the route (i.e. no
234 photolppt : As a Flightsimmer, those comments about the Captains FS setup and motives are ridiculous... Also, like I said some xx threads ago, I personally know a
235 Post contains links and images flyingturtle : A questions to the heavy metal pilots here: - How are waypoints loaded into the FMC? After looking at the weather forecast at the flight ops office,
236 Trin : And where in the HECK did they get THIS data from???
237 LandSweetLand : That depends, does he have a "makeshift desert hidden terrorist landing strip" scenery pack installed, and does he often request you let him tie you
238 Trin : Fails the razor; a loss of situational awareness situation would undoubtedly have resulted in constant communication between the aircraft and ATC.
239 Post contains images Starlionblue : I will sum up my opinion of this scenario as follows:
240 flyingturtle : Playing the devil's advocate: "Our military radars saw some unexplainable radar returns near VAMPI, GIVAL and IGREX - in no particular order." And th
241 theaviator380 : I must admit that is absolutely brilliant point you made, unless I have missed, I haven't seen any one bringing this logic. I am neither a pilot nor
242 imatams : Here's what bothering me: -If the theory about the plane continuing to fly is correct (and the circumstantial evidence for that scenario seems to be i
243 DTW2HYD : It appears they are reviewing ping logs from actual service providers(may be SITA). Because MH is not fully subscribed to ACARS they have few pings.
244 Trin : Ah, OK. Sorry. I've just woken up on this side of the pond and need my caffeine.
245 flyingturtle : I don't think so. Remember that Vietnamese ATC wasn't contacted by MH370. Vietnam ATC perhaps knew that MH370 would be coming their way. Malaysia ATC
246 CityhopperNL : Not sure if this has been asked before, but what about the inflight-entertainment system? MAS 772 planes have one for sure And those would include fl
247 evomutant : I don't know how MH do things, but I would be very surprised if they require pilots to manually input the flightplan into the FMC. They will have pro
248 flyingturtle : It's reasonable for the F/As to have a switch for the IFE, to wake up passengers that are hooked on the in-flight movie instead of stowing the stuff
249 ushermittwoch : Anybody know what kind of equipment the air defence unit at CBD uses?
250 philask : *click* "Ladies and gentlemen, unfortunately due to a technical fault the flight path display will not be available on this flight, please accept our
251 undertheradar : seems as the days turn into a week and weeks.. more agencies/authorities are 'releasing/sharing' more info... let's hope that all the 'pieces' of the
252 sipadan : It COULD be relevant in this way. In Islam, one of the worst sins a person can commit is to take one's own life, unless it is for a just and righteou
253 aviators99 : The part about them not realizing what's going on does indeed fail the razor. But the initial two parts of the question is worth answering. The FMS c
254 ThunderboltDrgn : An attempt to avoid Radar stations that they know about?
255 theaviator380 : Thanks for the info..appreciated.
256 aviators99 : And does this circuitous route avoid well-known RADAR stations, in particular?
257 CityhopperNL : Oh absolutely, I've been on many flights where it was not working without even getting such a notice. But then someone would ask the flight attendant
258 md80fanatic : What's with all this suicide talk, with respect to the pilots? There are a thousand ways to kill oneself .. why must one take 240 souls with them? Met
259 Starlionblue : The CDU displays for the FMC are small but they're not playing the Twilight movies. The text is large and very easily readable. If someone enters the
260 ranold76 : An atheist wouldn't care if he was seen as disgracing an entity that he/she has deemed imaginary/non-believable. Even if they were shamed/ostracized
261 flyingturtle : I never had a closer look at an FMC, but it wouldn't surprise me if you were only able to enter waypoints, or if the flight plan does not contain an
262 CO 757-300 : Do MH 772s have an airshow type of program in the IFE? Are these programs powered by internal GPS?
263 vfw614 : edited due to thread being closed[Edited 2014-03-14 06:02:25]
264 Post contains links SA7700 : Due to length this thread will be locked for further contributions. All posts added after the thread lock will be removed for housekeeping purposes on
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