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BOS: Growth As International Gateway And B6 Hub  
User currently offlineASA From Bangladesh, joined Dec 2010, 733 posts, RR: 1
Posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 16801 times:

We have had quite a few Boston related threads lately ... related to growth of international traffic in Logan, growth of Jetblue as the dominant carrier at BOS, starting DTW right in time for the EK service, starting code-share with TK in view of their upcoming service, new Emirates service and their President's bold remarks, and new renovation/extension project for Terminal E. But all these discussions were quite scattered in nature, as you can see:

Aer Lingus From Boston Logan (by iyerhari Feb 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

BOS Terminal E Renovation (by iyerhari Mar 4 2014 in Civil Aviation)

AA Ends Partnership With JetBlue (by AAplat4life Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

Emirates CEO: Boston Needs Bigger Plane (by chrisnh Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

JetBlue - Turkish Airlines Form Codeshare (by LAXintl Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

JetBlue Starts DTW On March 10, 2014 (by MesaFlyGuy Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

If we could consolidate the discussions - and talk about details of the extension project, the ongoing renovation of Terminal B and realignment of airline gates; as well as, how the growth of international carriers and B6 are leading to new services and code-shares as an international gateway (with the Terminal C-E connector), I thought, would be useful. Thanks!  

182 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8380 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 16690 times:

Quoting ASA (Thread starter):
We have had quite a few Boston related threads lately ... related to growth of international traffic in Logan, growth of Jetblue as the dominant carrier at BOS, starting DTW right in time for the EK service, starting code-share with TK in view of their upcoming service, new Emirates service and their President's bold remarks, and new renovation/extension project for Terminal E. But all these discussions were quite scattered in nature, as you can see:

When we talk about growth it's important that we present data. Massport.com has data going back to 1999. Pre-9/11 BOS peaked at 23.1M domestic and 4.5M international passengers. that was in the year 2000. It wasn't until 2010 that BOS was back to the pre-9/11 numbers for domestic passengers, hitting 23.7M, and only in 2013 did BOS equal the peak for international passengers at 4.5M.

So in my opinion, it hasn't been so much growth as it has been a recovery. It's easy to say B6 has been responsible for this growth, they certainly contributed to it, but for the most part they simply replaced other carriers and took their passengers. UA, AA, DL, all shrunk at one point or another in the last 13 years. In my opinion, it was WN coming to Boston in 2009? and DL exiting BK in 2007 that really kick-started BOS's recovery and growth.

Only time will tell whether these new international carriers will create growth or simply steal passengers from the incumbent international carriers. I think the latter is the more likely scenario because BOS is extremely constrained in terms of International gates. Now if Massport decides to build an extension to terminal E, we'll certainly see a big spike in international growth.

2013 was a stellar year for BOS, much like 2000. It has taken 13 long years and I can't wait to see what the next few years will bring us  


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8373 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 16639 times:
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JAL arrived a few years ago, Hainin Air has to. Emirates is coming in September. Boston is diversfying its European heavy international destination portfolio. Latin America is lacking, Copa from Panama has arrived. Boston to Sao Paulo would be a good as just about every hub east of the rockies has a nonstop to GRU.

User currently offlineASA From Bangladesh, joined Dec 2010, 733 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 16552 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 2):

JAL arrived a few years ago, Hainin Air has to. Emirates is coming in September. Boston is diversfying its European heavy international destination portfolio. Latin America is lacking, Copa from Panama has arrived. Boston to Sao Paulo would be a good as just about every hub east of the rockies has a nonstop to GRU.

??!! too much Nyquil ??!! 

Emirates (DXB-BOS on 77L) started earlier this week (Mar 10)
Turkish (IST-BOS on 333) is starting May 10, daily from June
Hainan (PEK-BOS on 788)is starting 4w in late June ...

nonstop to GRU would be awesome ... but is the market big enough to sustain year-round profitably?


User currently offlineiyerhari From United States of America, joined Jun 2013, 74 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 16528 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 2):

Emirates is already operating now - the non-US carriers missed/neglected their chances and that's being capitalized by carriers who know where to find new business avenues in the already heated competition. I think they have an excellent chance to survive, sustain and preserve the momentum. Business opportunities are still excellent in Boston and with the opening of the new innovation district, it's going to further strengthen the already prospering LSHC market - not to mention the existing strengths in education, financial services, High-tech and tourism. All in all it's exciting time for Boston and correctly did the WSJ article state "Boston charm". I'm already looking to the next headline in the Globe or WSJ when the new flight to Milan would start and I think the headline should be "Fashion capital of the world connects with the education capital of the world". Maybe that time, the executives from AA, Delta, etc. can fly into BOS and take a refresher course at Harvard or MIT on how to decipher profitable route segments outside of their so-called hubs.  


User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8380 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 16501 times:

I just don't think deep S.America will ever materialize. Just look at the distances that are in play. It's far more economic for airlines to hub somewhere in between. I think BOG-BOS with AV is far more likely than GRU-BOS.

User currently offlinebobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6476 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 16467 times:

I don't believe is located geographically well enough to become a domestic hub for any airline. There are plenty of flights headed south and west out of Boston but very few opportunities for connections from the north or east to make it a 360 degree domestic hub

User currently offlineglobetrotter29 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 33 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 16425 times:

Surprised MEX is unserved from BOS.

User currently offlineAADFWFlyer From United States of America, joined Dec 2013, 94 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 16400 times:
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Quoting airbazar (Reply 1):

For what it's worth - what is the combined market share of the combined AA/US to the new AA in BOS - with gates, flight arrivals/departures, etc - finding conflicting information as my numbers were based on just the AA retreat in Boston (thanks to Tom Horton), but now would like a picture of the new AA - and with the appreciation of the new AA management and their different approach to running an airline - ie: competing, and not retreating - looking forward to see the things that the new AA has on the table and horizon - and now being a bigger player in Boston, due to the AA/US combination. Thanks for any feedback - appreciate it!.


User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8380 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 16341 times:

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 6):
I don't believe is located geographically well enough to become a domestic hub for any airline. There are plenty of flights headed south and west out of Boston but very few opportunities for connections from the north or east to make it a 360 degree domestic hub

Certainly not a domestic hub but just about every flight entering or leaving the U.S. to/from the East overflies BOS. It can be an international hub as big as an airline or alliance wants to make it. Massport will bend over backwards to support growth. B6 wanted a terminal to themselves. Done. EK wanted a link to B6's terminal. Done. AA wanted more gates in terminal B. Done. WN wanted expanded gate space. Done.

Quoting AADFWFlyer (Reply 8):
For what it's worth - what is the combined market share of the combined AA/US to the new AA in BOS - with gates, flight arrivals/departures, etc

No idea but that doesn't change the international landscape at BOS. AA is simplynot interested in serving international destinations from BOS and that is true for just about every domestic airline which is why international routes from BOS are dominated by international carriers. It is mind bogling that so many international carriers find BOS to be a worthwhile investment but the U.S. carriers don't. I am surprised and even shocked that KLM has not yet taken over the AMS flights from DL. Personally I actually like it this way. Imagine being from Atlanta and all you see down there is Delta tails despite being the largest airport in the world in terms of passengers.


User currently offlineAADFWFlyer From United States of America, joined Dec 2013, 94 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 16316 times:
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Quoting airbazar (Reply 9):

Yea, wish that AA would fly more of their metal out of BOS like they used to - but know that the OW flights on Japan Airlines and British Airways cover some Intl locations.... thanks for the information.


User currently offlinevs11 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1111 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 16238 times:

Indeed, things are looking good for Boston and the area in general. The local economy is doing pretty well, and most importantly Boston is fixing one of its long-standing issues - costly housing. The last couple of years have seen many new projects (granted, high-end, but still) and more and more young people and families are moving into the city. So you do have the market for growth and as airbazar says the local authorities are very pro-growth oriented and cooperative with businesses. Also, Boston just got a new mayor who is moving on keeping bars open later so that would also help with Boston shaking the perception of being on the sleepy side.

I don't think US carriers have lost Boston off their radar. I believe many of them retreated from international markets because they could not have stayed competitive enough. Let's face it, flying old 757's and 767's across the Atlantic is never going to be a winner against VS, BA, AF, LH, EK, TK, etc. However, with the 787 and 350 things may change in a few years.

As to Central and South America, it is indeed strange that there are not many direct services in view of the pretty robust Latino population in the Boston area. I can only assume that AA is doing a good job connecting through Miami.


User currently offlinebrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4235 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 16207 times:

I am glad to see BOS becoming a larger international gateway. It is always nicer to avoid JFK when coming to America from Europe. Although Boston is the home to the Bosox, it is still a nice place to visit and stay the night on my way home.


Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlinea380787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2013, 990 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 16172 times:

Quoting vs11 (Reply 11):
Let's face it, flying old 757's and 767's across the Atlantic is never going to be a winner against VS, BA, AF, LH, EK, TK, etc. However, with the 787 and 350 things may change in a few years.

I don't know about DL or AA, but UA definitely has no appetite for BOS long haul

while BOS is one of the their largest domestic stations (outside of hubs), long-haul options for UA are pretty dead :

LHR : already has BA AA DL
CDG : AA and AF ... and AA can't even keep it year round
FRA : LH
MUC : LH
ZRH : LX

At *most* UA would do BOS-FRA, but so far UA hasn't shown any willingness to do NonHub-to-PartnerHub type routes.


User currently offlinechrisnh From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4116 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 16091 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 1):
So in my opinion, it hasn't been so much growth as it has been a recovery.

I agree. But still, Boston seems to be 'recovering' better than most, and the recovery is seeing a different 'mix.' We used to talk about 'legacy' carriers such as UA, AA, DL, NW (then), TWA (then) with a degree of 'reverence.' No more. Those 'legacy' carriers aren't revered any more than McDonald's is as a restaurant. They want to hang their hat on a few major gateways? Fine...we'll just get some new suppliers (B6) who are very happy to pick up where our own 'legacy' carriers leave off. Internationally, same thing. BA is very happy to provide the seats that AA abandoned, for example.

The financial abyss that our homegrown 'legacy' carriers found themselves in post-9/11 gave other airlines the ability to waltz into profitable cities (read: Boston) and establish themselves. Pre-9/11, an American Airlines would go into any airport and bash an interloper into submission. That was their violent MO, and it was well documented, too. But losing money as they were, none of them could 'fight' for stations that weren't named 'New York' or 'Miami' or 'Los Angeles.'
DL had to wave their own white flag with respect to Dallas; AA had to do it with Nashville. US with Pittsburgh. UA with Dulles & Cleveland. Etcetera Etcetera Etcetera

Now, Boston isn't JFK; never has been and never will be. Like I said in another thread: We get it. The mistaken psychology espoused by our domestic carriers is that Boston is 'close enough' to JFK and that fliers can go there to reach other places. But JetBlue didn't think so, and neither did Emirates. And Turkish. And Hainan. And maybe even Qatar. Etcetera Etcetera Etcetera.

The only problem I can see is that the BOS infrastructure (land-side, air-side) may be outpaced by the demand to fly here. Like someone said, Emirates may want to use a 773ER NOW, but the gate they have can't accept it without taking out neighboring gates. Stuff like that.


User currently offlinecloudboy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 828 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 16067 times:

Do we know how many passengers flying through Logan are flying from BOS and returning to BOS, and how many are flying from another destination and visiting Boston?

I think one driver for foreign airlines is not as an origin point but as a destination point. Which is one reason why domestic airlines aren't as interested in serving international destinations. For Americans, Boston isn't such a big tourist attraction, but for the international traveler, it is a lot more approachable than many other US destinations.

With the consolidation of airlines, I think new domestic markets will be opening up. It will be interesting to see what kind f partnerships are generated, I think this might be where BOS in the future will see growth - foreign non-alliance airlines partnering with some of the newer US domestic airlines, with Boston serving as a convenient connection point avoiding the cost and hassle of NYC.



"Six becoming three doesn't create more Americans that want to fly." -Adam Pilarski
User currently offlinevs11 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1111 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 16021 times:

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 14):
Those 'legacy' carriers aren't revered any more than McDonald's is as a restaurant.

I totally agree with you. The damage US carriers have done to themselves may well be beyond repair. Even DL decided to buy Virgin Atlantic rather than wait to establish itself on the TATL market. I like the aggressiveness of the AA rebranding effort but that will take some time to propagate to actual aircraft and services. UA seems the most hopeless right now.


User currently offlineflyby519 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 1147 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 15931 times:

Quoting brilondon (Reply 12):

I am glad to see BOS becoming a larger international gateway. It is always nicer to avoid JFK when coming to America from Europe. Although Boston is the home to the Bosox, it is still a nice place to visit and stay the night on my way home.


I think this is important for Massport to remember as they grow their intl presence. I am worried that they will over-grow the amount of international traffic without changing the Customs facility. Boston can be a success if it remains more connection friendly and faster customs times than JFK.



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User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8380 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 15870 times:

Quoting globetrotter29 (Reply 7):
Surprised MEX is unserved from BOS.

No market. It's hard enough to find a decent Mexican restaurant around here, let alone business ties  
The latino population around here is primarily from the Caribbean, Central America, and Brazil. Brazilian are the largest group of visitors from Latin America.

Quoting vs11 (Reply 11):
Indeed, things are looking good for Boston and the area in general. The local economy is doing pretty well, and most importantly Boston is fixing one of its long-standing issues - costly housing.

Housing is still costly. That's never going to change because there's no land to build new housing.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 13):
At *most* UA would do BOS-FRA, but so far UA hasn't shown any willingness to do NonHub-to-PartnerHub type routes.

UA has no interest in serving FRA because they have a JV with LH. The same reason why AA abandoned LHR.

Quoting cloudboy (Reply 15):
Do we know how many passengers flying through Logan are flying from BOS and returning to BOS, and how many are flying from another destination and visiting Boston?

I don't but we know that Boston originating traffic is the highest in the country, per capita. By that I mean that people from this area travel more often than anyone else in the country. So that in a way explains why a premdominantly O&D airport is doing so well.

Quoting cloudboy (Reply 15):
I think one driver for foreign airlines is not as an origin point but as a destination point. Which is one reason why domestic airlines aren't as interested in serving international destinations. For Americans, Boston isn't such a big tourist attraction, but for the international traveler, it is a lot more approachable than many other US destinations.

I would guess that Boston is not a huge tourist destination for either. It's however a global center of commerce and education and that's what drives a lot of air traffic here. This link has really good information. The ratio of leisure to business pax at BOS is only 2-to-1.
http://www.bostonusa.com/partner/press/statistics/
The Chinese are now the second largest group of visitors and the biggest spenders by a huge margin. Mind boggling stuff. And we don't even have a flight to China yet. This is a group that no doubt the likes of TK will capitalize on despite the long detour.


User currently offlinevs11 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1111 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 15796 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 18):
Housing is still costly. That's never going to change because there's no land to build new housing.

True, housing is still costly but South Boston and Seaport are areas that have seen lots of new residential projects. Several new projects in the margins of the South End too.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 18):
I don't but we know that Boston originating traffic is the highest in the country, per capita. By that I mean that people from this area travel more often than anyone else in the country. So that in a way explains why a premdominantly O&D airport is doing so well.

This is partly due to the army of consultants that fly out every Monday and come back Thursday but still good-yielding traffic.  


User currently onlineadamh8297 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 905 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 15692 times:

Quoting a380787 (Reply 13):
CDG : AA and AF ... and AA can't even keep it year round

DL does AMS and seasonal CDG as well.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 18):
No market.

There's a market (50-60 PDEW) and its probably has a fair share of business. Its just not big enough for a 2000 mile flight.
AM tried it and failed. MEX was no picnic for connections either. DL wouldn't hesitate to throw an E-175 on it if it were in range.


User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8380 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 15558 times:

Here's the Massport press release that actually states "renovation of gates to accommodate Airbus A-380 aircraft – the largest commercial aircraft flying which Massport expects to service in the near future."
http://massport.com/news-room/news/g...ns-international-flight-expansion/

Massport must be fairly confident that they will get FAA approval for regular A380 ops if they are going ahead with modifications to 2 gates at terminal E. Personally I think this upgrade is long overdue and would benefit all aircraft even if no A380 ever comes here. Current 747 operators especially will be thrilled to learn of this improvement.


User currently offlineiyerhari From United States of America, joined Jun 2013, 74 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 15495 times:

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 14):

  You're on the spot Chris. If domestic carriers considered BOS to be like some of the cities that lost their hub status such as PIT, CVG, MEM, and now CLE who are clamoring for additional support from others - then that won't happen with Boston as there will be smart carriers like B6 to capitalize for an excellent growth opportunity. The remaining US carriers will become like the run of the mill airlines who lost a good opportunity and now will lose all hopes to capitalize on that. But imagine the diversity at Logan to see every gate being occupied by a well-known fleet of well-respected and courteous international airlines supported by B6 true to the nature & spirit of the city that accords diversity and applauds performance than having to see a monolithic presence of a single dominant carrier dictating the likes of a city and airport.


User currently offlinequestions From Australia, joined Sep 2011, 782 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 15471 times:

When Delta built Terminal A did it envision BOS as an international gateway? Does Terminal A have the facilities to process international flights? With the UA/CO merger did Delta take back the gates it passed to CO?

User currently offlinebobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6476 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 15419 times:

Quoting questions (Reply 23):
Does Terminal A have the facilities to process international flights? With the UA/CO merger did Delta take back the gates it passed to CO?

Terminal A does not have customs but Delta has requested it from Massport with no luck.

Dl did get back the CO gates in Terminal A


25 Post contains images ASA : How about a JetBlue A320 ? ... pretty consistent with B6's southward / Caribbean strategy from BOS. Hopefully as market stimulates, there will be dec
26 vs11 : That's a pretty good idea! B6 don't serve Mexico City from NYC either so they may consider opening both MEX-BOS/NYC. I am not sure it is up to Masspo
27 KC135TopBoom : BOS-MEX is just under 2000 nm, so an A-320 has the range. But MEX is a high/hot airport and I'm not sure the A-320 has enough performance to fly full
28 adamh8297 : Its almost twice the amount of seats and it would be tough to time it perfectly for international partners especially TK and EK due to their long tim
29 adamh8297 : B6 cannot due to bilateral. They would be serving it right now if they could. Only two airlines can serve MEX-US city pairs per bilateral. DL and UA
30 Post contains images cessna53996 : Right now WN has 5 gates in Terminal E at BOS. I think that if WN moved to A that they would want 5 gates at the least. They probably wouldn't want sa
31 jfklganyc : I think you will see a topping out of B6 growth anywhere between 150 flights and 200 flights. That will happen in the next 5 years I think you will se
32 airbazar : Pointless exercise unless DL shows them the money because terminal A doesn't have the necessary widebody gates. As it is today, when DL operates thei
33 Tim445 : Gate E1A could possibly be turned into an international gate. I believe it was at one time shortly after construction of the original Volpe Terminal u
34 alphaomega : Aeromexico applied for landing rights at about the same time as Copa last year, both were denied. Copa changed their schedule and started operating i
35 Post contains images Revelation : Cool. Right now the cheapest way to do BOS-CDG is to do BOS-IST-CDG using TK (cheaper than routing through Iceland or using AF!) but perhaps BOS-DXB-
36 adamh8297 : That's almost three times the flying. I'd consider it if saving $1000 USD. I'm not sure if I would even go through IST to get to Western Europe. Rega
37 airbazar : I think the time to make serious modifications to BOS has passed, unfortunately. The kind of highly disruptive changes that BOS needs had to have bee
38 chrisnh : It sure will be something to crow about if we do. Both Seattle and Dallas came online for Emirates in Mar 2012. Seattle just upgraded to the 773ER; D
39 N757ST : What might be very interesting is what happens when Jetblue starts receiving A321NEOs....
40 jetbluefan1 : Can a 321NEO fly BOS-Western Europe or Northern South America? Hmmm...
41 N757ST : It can definitely do western europe, hence why Aer Lingus bought theirs. A mint A321NEO might be a perfect BOS- Secondary Western Europe airport bird
42 adamh8297 : Looked at EK's DFW load factors 90% for the most part - I'm surprised they haven't bumped it... Maybe they are leery on the fact that QR and EY are c
43 alphaomega : Massport won't deny anyone, as we've seen from the recent planned growth. The overnight hours are not favored by CBP, which is when they were looking
44 airbazar : I'm not sure it means anything to DFW. DFW is the end of the line for EK. Strictly O&D. Whereas BOS is a connecting airport, being fed by B6. The
45 commavia : Why would there be grumbling from "DALLAS?" Why would "DALLAS" care? Not strictly O&D. Beyond the connectivity over DXB, AA also sends plenty of
46 adamh8297 : The city of Dallas wouldn't care - 95% of the population doesn't realize that the flight is flown with a 777-200LR. I would bet that half of the popu
47 Post contains images ASA : How do the advanced bookings on TK and HU look, any information? When will HU have enough 788 to launch daily service on this route? Looking at the st
48 adamh8297 : Probably very soon - especially once whatever arrangement with B6 comes into play and they get all of their 787's. I wouldn't be surprised if HU axed
49 STT757 : Don't know if the market can support this route. UA is still operating from Terminal A at BOS. B6 and AA are prohibited from serving NYC-MEX, this is
50 Post contains images ASA : very interesting ... this is new information. But given the high volume to Chinese visitors in the region, there must be enough flow from/to Beijing
51 adamh8297 : Not for BOS (though unlikely) or MCO - they could apply for the rights and get it even if AA/US or DL has it. AM probably still has rights for BOS an
52 BOStonsox : I'm so glad to see so much going on at BOS. B6 may be a ways from going intercontinental, but it's attracting carriers who otherwise wouldn't think as
53 KD5MDK : Mint seems like a very premium product to fly to secondary European cities. As a compelling alternative on BOS-LON or BOS-CDG? Maybe. Perhaps BOS-MAN?
54 IndianicWorld : I find it amazing that so much attention suddenly gets placed on certain markets, after a relatively quiet period. To now see the amount of capacity g
55 chrisnh : The catalysts that are drawing out these new international carriers were always in Boston: the universities, the financial companies, medicine and hos
56 Revelation : Interesting statement. As above I have been watching prices BOS-CDG and they don't seem low to me, so I'm wondering if you have some corroboration on
57 alphaomega : BOS is successful thanks to the premium market, not the low-cost leisure traveler. Even B6's fares are not cheap, same goes for SW, but they're PROFI
58 Revelation : Ok, then I guess I don't understand what "airfares are too low to stimulate" means...
59 cloudboy : How important is Freight to BOS? Could they move the freight traffic to BED and use that area as additional room for a wide-body terminal?
60 AviationAddict : The runways at BED are probably too short to handle full scale cargo operations. Beyond that, if Massport was to propose this I suspect they'd ultima
61 Post contains images Revelation : I think KPSM is trying to attract freight but obviously too far from Boston to provide much relief for stuff needing to be in Boston or points south.
62 rosskin92 : This is only half of the issue. The other half is below. This is a major issue with BOS. There is very little room for expansion, and they cannot tak
63 airbazar : There's one thing that has changed that I consider significant and that is the shift in global economic forces. 10-15 years ago China, India, and the
64 tlecam : I agree. Number 3 is also one reason why the US carriers haven't tried to fight the international battle much. DL makes LHR, AMS and CDG (Seasonally)
65 adamh8297 : The surcharge is supposedly "fuel related". I consider that part of the airfare since its going to the airline and part of their balance sheet. Take
66 airbazar : Right, and I agree and that's why I think fuel surcharges should be illegal. But that's a topic for an entirely different discussion. In reality, a f
67 Post contains images ChrisNH : Here's an interesting view of the route Emirates 237 is taking today. Notice how far north of Iceland he went.
68 Post contains links BOStonsox : Here's the article I referred to earlier: http://blog.apex.aero/inflight-servi...ly-rule-transatlantic-lcc-service/
69 airbazar : As you may have noticed yesterday, the winds was pretty strong. They may have gone that far north to avoid that weather system across the Atlantic.
70 Post contains links tlecam : Article from the Boston Business journal on Hainan. Ticket sales seem to be good but. It spectacular. Hainan is going to daily service in August, prim
71 Post contains images ASA : That's great to hear - I'm very hopeful that this flight will not take very long to go daily year-round. A friend of mine just returned from BOG via P
72 Post contains images airbazar : Until now it was really difficult to fly to SE Asia by flying East. The cozy relationship that the U.S. airlines had with their European JV counterpa
73 adamh8297 : SQ has been doing it for years with VS codeshare. I flew BOS-LHR-SIN-MDC on UA miles to boot.
74 airbazar : So have I. Have done BOS-JFK-FRA-SIN a couple of times but you and I are the minority. You have to go out of your way to find those flights and they
75 stratacruiser : I haven't found that to be the case, at least with Southeast Asia. Have used both LH and BA to reach BKK and SIN through Europe at fares competitive
76 tlecam : I'm going to have to book a trip to New Delhi from Boston for travel in the next 4-6 weeks (or however long it takes for my firm to process the visa).
77 ChrisNH : I don't know if one has to do with the other, but Hainan reduced Chicago service at about the same time they upped Boston. In other words, Chicago's p
78 Post contains images airbazar : Maybe they are reacting but I just did a search for a trip to SIN next month and the only Euro itineray was SQ at #9 on the list. Funny enought it's
79 ASA : last summer, I was travelling to BKK ... and I could not find a competitive fare via Europe. Eventually I merged it with another trip to Spain ... an
80 adamh8297 : Checked the loads on aviationdb.net for ORD's first month and they were in the 90%'s though it was only 2x weekly at the time.
81 Post contains links ASA : Efforts to bring MEX into the fold continues ... Gov. Patrick meets with two airlines to bring direct flights to Boston from Mexico City http://www.bi
82 tlecam : AeroMexico would be a nice feather in SkyTeam's cap in Boston. Could provide some pretty nice connecting possibilities through MEX.
83 Post contains links ScottB : There's an article in the Glob today about UA's new facilities at BOS: http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/.../tAcVdUSy8cANNgtcX9dM8I/story.html Some
84 adamh8297 : Is 5 gates enough for WN? I wonder if AS will wind up in B. Interjet is interesting but their A320 is 150 passengers which may be too big even for 4
85 ChrisNH : Which Mexican carrier tried Boston and failed miserably at it in the 1990s...Mexicana?
86 adamh8297 : Aeromexico in mid 2000's
87 tlecam : I've been watching the construction from the outside as I taxi on Delta. Looking forward to it being done. Hopefully there's a bit more gate space tha
88 727LOVER : Since we are talking about BOS...why did NW throw away their BOS hub/gateway?
89 bobnwa :
90 airbazar : I'm guessing longer range airplanes allowed them to setup a hub in a better place. And speaking of BOS construction, I'm really looking forward to se
91 dvincent : They better enjoy that view from the United lounge, because the height of the new terminal addition blocks us plebes from using the terminal B garage
92 tlecam : I was looking at the google earth pictures of Terminal B and you can see the construction. At the southern end, you can see where the connector is. Qu
93 flyby519 : I'm pretty sure the plan is for UA to be right in the middle of US and AA, which makes zero sense. I don't know what the longer term AA/US plans are
94 Post contains images ASA : you are right - but unfortunately, sometimes it feels like we always some sort of construction going on - or that those never finishes! just like the
95 vs11 : From what I understand, there was a huge customs scam going on at NW in BOS, which got busted in the 70s or 80s (don't remember exactly), after which
96 airbazar : It makes sense when you go back in time. AA and US were not one airline. The plan was to put all *A carriers next to eachother (UA, US, and AC) and t
97 ScottB : There's plenty of room in the current US area for AA and US to consolidate, especially if NK and PenAir were to be moved into the AA gates. US has 18
98 tlecam : And according to an article in the Globe yesterday, United is investing a fair amount into their new combined facilities in Boston.
99 cessna53996 : I think gate consolidation is inevitable here. I think that AA/US will combine ops on the current US side. This gate movement could either bring WN t
100 airbazar : All of the above would make sense but I had never thought about WN moving to terminal B but that makes a whole lot of sense to me. I don't see WN mov
101 ChrisNH : I also believe the NW mess at Boston also included the murder of a woman whose body was found in the trunk of a burned-out car. Yeah. That happened.
102 cessna53996 : They'd have plenty of room for growth on that pier of B30-36 with 7 gates. I could see Massport putting in lots of money to modernize that part of B
103 deltal1011man : quick note, its not just a 333 flight. LHR is year round (1x 764) and they add CDG and a 2nd AMS in the summer. (1x 763 1x 332) but for the most part
104 Post contains links adamh8297 : It was a NW employee. http://www.metro.us/boston/news/2012...raskiewiczs-killer-20-years-later/ I remember the billboard requesting information on Ro
105 airbazar : Sorry, I worded it wrong. I didn't mean to say that DL had only 1 daily flight to Europe. What i meant to say was, those were the constraints that 1
106 tlecam : For at least some of the winter months, the LHR flight is on a 763 (I just flew this last week) and the adjacent gate was in use. I boarded at A19. A2
107 ASA : If WN eventually leave for Terminal A (CO gates) or B (after AA/US consolidates) ... I wonder what would be the best uses of those gates in Terminal E
108 flyby519 : My bet is that B6 will eventually operate from those gates after the C-E connector is finished.
109 Post contains links and images airbazar : All of the above. It would be easy to convert those gates to international gates. They could be used for narrowbody international flights. Not just B
110 Post contains links STT757 : Some photos, looks nice. http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/...AcVdUSy8cANNgtcX9dM8I/picture.html
111 apodino : So April 30th is the day of the move? The article also says UA is getting 10 gates in the new facility. From the end of where US is now to the AA conc
112 Post contains links and images ASA : More sneak peek of the under-construction United terminal ... http://boston.cbslocal.com/2014/03/3...-at-logans-terminal-b-renovations/ Focus seems to
113 adamh8297 : Thanks for the video! Add LAX to destinations though its a bit light compared to BOS-SFO. I do not see any P2P routes except I do wonder if UA may lo
114 stratacruiser : 1) Wrong size aircraft on the international side. At the height of the operation (about 1990) NW was sending a 742 to LGW and DC-10-40s to CDG, FRA,
115 airbazar : BOS-LIS on a 757 would be fantastic. I know it's just wishful thinking becuase of all airlines, UA is the least likely to add new international route
116 HUYfan : JetBlue mint 321neo to Manchester and Glasgow would surely be winners? Kind regards HUYfan
117 ASA : how about BOS-BRU ... this route has been lying empty since Sabena folded back in the days. Despite some rumors from SN Brussells and VG Airlines - n
118 styles9002 : VG did operate BOS-BRU briefly in 2002 as 'Delsey Airlines'. They were handled by Icelandair in Terminal E. VG also served JFK/LAX-BRU but none of the
119 adamh8297 : UA could do that one too if it was their MO in the Joint Venture with their Star partners. Only 169 seats on a transatlantic 757 and the rest of the
120 jcarv : United will be getting Gates B20-21 also from US Airways.
121 Post contains links and images adamh8297 : Cathay Pacific To Announce ZRH, BOS & MAN ChrisNH what was your source for the original talk on CX? If loaded soon then
122 airbazar : I've been on this site long enough to know not to trust aanything on April 1st.
123 tlecam : Ha...we'll will see if it sticks. will be interesting to see what flight times they would choose for Boston. Cathay operates all around the clock from
124 chrisnh : Oh geez...is the blood on MY hands for this? LOL. I'll have to search through the forum to see what I said about this and when. The hits...they keep
125 Post contains links and images ASA : When I was thinking of throwing in a April Fools thread this morning - I was thinking of announcing DOH and GRU ... HKG didn't even cross my mind! LOL
126 Post contains images airbazar : Personally I don't see CX announcing BOS without so much as a peep from either the Governor or the Mayor of Boston. That April Fool's joke would have
127 adamh8297 : Article states: "Boston is also on its radar and is very likely to be launched in early 2015, Aspire Aviation‘s sources at Cathay Pacific said" Its
128 apodino : That doesn't make sense though, After the required gate divestures, AA/US is slated to control 21 gates. Divesting 20-21 doesn't make sense if they a
129 airbazar : They will probably also get AC's gates, no? I can't imagine AC not moving to the UA side. This strong rumor has been around for a while because HKG i
130 adamh8297 : PVG and PEK (about to be served) have been bigger in recent years. ICN is very close too. The biggest factor going against this route is that it over
131 ASA : Just drove by BOS Terminal E a few hours ago ... there were an EK 77L, an LH 744, and an LH 343 in the remote stands near the Delta hanger ... and one
132 jcarv : LH pilots are on a 3 day strike so those aircraft are here thru Friday night. That's not the norm.
133 chrisnh : LH pilots are on strike. The planes are here; the people needed to drive them are not.
134 apodino : I included the existing AC gates in the 19 mentioned above since they already technically own those gates already and I fully expect AC to move. I st
135 Post contains images airbazar : Just came back from picking up someone at terminal E. What a zoo that place was around 6pm. I can only imagine what Immigration and customs was like.
136 ASA : I noticed Emirates was heavily advertising its DXB-MXP-JFK route ... especially flying to Milan from New York part. How likely is that instead of upga
137 chrisnh : I think rather than 'instead of' we might be looking at 'in addition to.' A scenario I see is twin 777-300ERs...one going nonstop to Dubai and the oth
138 adamh8297 : We don't really know how EK is doing on the JFK-MXP except for one item: The fares have plummeted. Average fare for JFK-MXP for July is $1100. In comp
139 airbazar : ATH is a good idea but I think that if a stop is to be considered LIS has to be a top option. As it is, TP is the only European network carrier that
140 adamh8297 : If LIS was unserved I would agree. However I strongly agree that EK would not serve BOS 1-stop via Europe. They are now more concerned with making al
141 airbazar : But to fly BOS-BCN you overfly the 2 largest markets in the Iberian peninsula: MAD and LIS. TP operates 5x daily to each BCN and MAD, along with 6 ot
142 Post contains images ASA : For an ME3 carrier to launch a BOS TATL route - I guess it would make sense to check the possible unserved or underserved routes? If someone can pull
143 adamh8297 : Here are some 2011 numbers - I also added CPH and ATH since they are both unserved and at the same traffic levels BCN- 64 - Massport has a slide stat
144 ASA : Many thanks for the numbers - it shows that there could be quite a few new routes to Europe with the right conditions. The traffic is there! Let us h
145 airbazar : Lets consider for a minute why EK could not make HAM-JFK work. The competition made it very difficult. And the competition is all the intermediary hu
146 adamh8297 : A very popular PMCO was already flying HAM-EWR and it was a smaller market back then. Those would be the main reasons. EK hadn't been at JFK that lon
147 Post contains links and images ASA : Not a whole lot ... but a regular non-stop to LIS nonetheless .... x5 until Oct 24. SATA AIRLINES BEGINS NON-STOP SERVICE TO LISBON FROM BOSTON http:/
148 adamh8297 : goes up to Thursday/Friday Service in June through 1st week of September along with the weekly to TER as well.
149 BOStonsox : They do that every summer. It's too bad they can't make it work year-round, even if they had a partnership with TP.
150 airbazar : They have a partnership with TP but not other *A carriers. And their A310's can't fly non-stop westbound so no chance of getting higher yield passeng
151 adamh8297 : Those A310-300's can easily make LIS-BOS. Max range is 9200km/5716 miles.
152 airbazar : Max advertise still air range is useless. Technically I'm sure it could but SATA wouldn't make any money on it. At its peak the A310-300 flew all kin
153 adamh8297 : It is non-stop. Its blocked for 7hr 5min. BOS-MAD is blocked for 7hr 55 min.
154 airbazar : That would be a step in the right direction although the above news only says non-stop BOS-LIS. We will have to wait and see however, wouldn't surpri
155 Post contains images ASA : Maybe if Neeleman was still at the helm of Jetblue ... we would have Jetblue flying BOS-PDL and BOS-LIS and few more TATL Just a wild dream ... isn't
156 adamh8297 : Would rather see SATA adsorb into TP personally (slim chance unfortunately) and partner with JetBlue.
157 jcarv : SATA has run nonstop BOS-LIS for years every summer season. It's nothing new and the A310s have always made it no problem. They like to advertise ever
158 boeingbus : SATA should get those cheap and slightly overweight early built 787s that boeing is trying to dump. It would be perfect.
159 airbazar : Please no. Unlike TP which is a fairly well run airline, SATA is a disaster and and example of everything that is wrong with government owned airline
160 adamh8297 : My hopes were based on TP management running the show and non being state owned if that happened.
161 iyerhari : It would be also interesting to see how Terminal A would shape up look like once United moves to Terminal B. I think AA would move to the US Airways s
162 ASA : I am looking forward to these changes too - and hoping that we will get an overall more efficient setup of the whole airport. It is quite interesting
163 airbazar : Well, new runway 14/32 and new centerfield taxiway and other taxiway improvements. Also an entire new terminal (A). It seems a long time ago but all
164 Post contains images ASA : Oh totally forgot about the runway - that is indeed fairly recent. I remembered about Terminal A ... but somehow I thought that was around 2000/01. W
165 Post contains images airbazar : Terminal A opened in the Spring of 2005 so about 9 years ago. Next 10 years is too short sighted, IMHO. Given that there will never be a new airport
166 Post contains images ASA : You're right. While the current renovations may make do for the next 10 ... the vision for BOS should be much longer. Along with location and airport
167 iyerhari : Another project that can be completed with MBTA assistance is to extend the airport blue-line station into the airport terminal. With limited parking
168 tlecam : I agree with the last few posts on the long term future of the airport. I'm not even sure if it was ever formally discussed / planned on what a Termin
169 airbazar : No doubt but any expansion would cause disruptions. This hypotetical terminal would have to occupy the same footprint as the current central garage a
170 cloudboy : What should have been done is a separate tunnel for rail from South station. But that idea was shot down, and now look at the mess. Personally I would
171 Post contains images ASA : Well, there are two other "Boston" airports that are functioning already with decent service: PVD and MHT. These two were thought to be very successf
172 airbazar : I don't get what the mess is. I don't understand what's so bad about taking a shuttle bus to the terminal or taking the silver line. I've done both p
173 cloudboy : Silverline is a nightmare. The trip takes far too long, you wait for busses far too long, they are crowded and no room for luggage, and worst of all -
174 airbazar : I don't get your point. The silver line cars have luggage racks. They are packed at rush hour but so is every public transportation medium so a tunne
175 ScottB : The MBTA doesn't have the money to undertake a project like that. Well, there are many airport employees who take the T to work as well... But for al
176 AviationAddict : The 88 line (economy parking) usually stops at the Blue Line station but goes straight to the terminals from there - it avoids the rental car facilit
177 Post contains links rob2507 : NAS South Weymouth is in the process of getting turned into basically a new town, Southfield. The E-W runway is now a road, and the N-S runway has apa
178 dk1967 : You also would need to avoid Article 97 issues so the land would need to be owned by the Feds or be private. Where's that plot of land within an hour
179 ASA : If not within 50 miles, MHT, PVD and ORH become viable alternatives. MHT and PVD have plenty room to get new services ... ORH needs work.
180 cessna53996 : ORH seems to be doing well with B6, they're averaging 81% loads over the first 5 months with the FLL and MCO flights. There are actually rumors aroun
181 lat41 : At Providence the Northeast Corridor main line rail is directly connected to the airport terminal with a bridge from the rail station. MBTA has some s
182 airbazar : To be honest I haven't needed to take the blue line to the airport since the Silver Line was introduced. I'm typically coming in from either Cambridg
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