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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24  
User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 26
Posted (8 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 90492 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

Due to length part 23 was locked for further contributions. Please feel free to continue your discussion in part 24.

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B777-200ER missing enroute KUL-PEK (by Longhornmaniac Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2 (by LipeGIG Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 3 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 7 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines 772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 8 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 11 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13 (by SA7700 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14 (by SA7700 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 16 (by SA7700 Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17 (by 777ER Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 20 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 23 (by SA7700 Mar 14 2014 in Civil Aviation)


A select few members have been making remarks towards others in the “Missing Malaysia Airlines 777 threads” for speculating about the fate of 9M-MRO, her crew and passengers. Given the fact that there is so much uncertainty going on at this stage, speculation is going to be a factor on this site and also at the biggest and greatest news corporations of the globe. At least until we all have a clearer picture. Is it a perfect situation – certainly not? That being said, we need to stay dynamic in a possible fast-changing situation.

It is not unique to this incident and if we go back in history and trace remarkable aviation events we will see that speculation has been an aspect, essential to some healthy debate. It is not the intention of the moderators to stifle the opinions of members that fall within the rules-and regulations of airliners.net. All that we kindly request from all our members is to stay within the site’s parameters. Please be respectful towards one another and let us all hope for the best possible outcome.


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**** SUMMARY PROVIDED BY MEMBER: rcair1 (Post 77 from thread 23) ****

First - synopsis
- The ship took off normally and headed on course to Beijing

- The last ACARS transmission was about 01:07 local. This does not mean ACARS was shut off - just that was the last transmission of ACARS data (See ACARS below)

- The last comms were a normal hand-off from Malaysia to Vietnam control at about 1:30 local

- It was a normal 'good night' on the Malaysian side, but Vietnam was not contacted.

- The aircraft dropped off secondary radar with no communication from the cockpit.

- There are some reports of a descent and turn based on primary radar. The descent was on the order of 3000 ft to 29,500.

- There are subsequent primary radar returns west over Malacca Straight.

- Since it is primarily radar - a reflection - we do not know that it is the accident a/c.

- We STILL do not know if it was a track (multiple returns) or a few points returns.

- We have 'reports' of SATCOM system pings for some hours after LOS (loss of signal)

- There is confusion (and argument) about the content of those pings and if those pings can provide location information (See SATCOM below)

- We have no ELT signal detected.


ACARS
- ACARS is an automated aircraft health management system that transmits a/c maintenance information to maintenance facilities like the airline, Boeing, Engine Manf, etc.

- ACARS is NOT a flight system - it is not needed for safe flight - it is a maintenance system

- ACARS is a subscription service and costs money. All indications are the MH370 was subscribed only to engine health monitoring and data from that is sent to Rolls Royce.

- ACARS communicates via VHF or SATCOM (and maybe Wifi at the gate). The communications channel depends on availability and is independent of the ACARS.


ACARS data from MH370
- MH370 sent 2 ACARS (or rather Engine Health) reports to Rolls Royce. The last was approximately 1:07

- Rolls Royce's would have expected only 1 more transmission at landing - that was never received.

- NOTE: this fact is in dispute - some reports say a transmission every 20 minutes or so was expected - however I believe that to be incorrect.

- The fact that the last ACARS was sent some time before the transponder signal was loss does not mean ACARS was turned off at that time. ACARS transmissions on this ship are not continuous


SATCOM
- SATCOM is a communications channel - Satellite Communications. It is a radio system that uses satellites to communicate various information.

- SATCOM is not ACARS - it is one of the channels ACARS can use.

- The last communication via SATCOM was the last ACARS message at 1:07


SATCOM Pings.
- The SATCOM system sends (or responds to) periodic 'pings' to/from the satellites. These 'pings' are a network communication that says "I am here." They are often called "keep alive" signals.

- SATCOM pings are not communicating a/c status, they are part of the communications channel.

- There are reports that SATCOM pings were heard for up to 4 or 5 hours into flight (or after LOS)

- NOTE: to those complaining it took to long to report this - remember the SATCOM pings are deep in the communications protocol and not what people would normally look at. How often do you look at the basic network traffic on your router?

- There is speculation that the SATCOM pings contain altitude, heading, speed. From a communications standpoint that does not make sense.

- I believe what is really happening is that experts in this system are trying to derive some location, speed, etc. information from the nature of the pings For instance, what satellites did they hit, when and how strong. Much like GPS, you may be able to derive information about location.


Way-point Tracks:
- There are reports and maps today of a track following way-points.

- The source (Radar? Satcom? Visual?) and veracity of this information is not confirmed.

- At this point I cannot state any factual data related other than it is being discussed in the press


Airworthiness Directive
- The airworthiness directive about corrosion near the SATCOM antenna does not apply to this ship.

- The ship DOES have SATCOM - but uses a different antenna


Search Areas Based on this information - authorities are searching:
- Along the planed route

- West over the Malacca straight

- North west of Malacca straight

- Near the islands of Andaman and Nicobar. Indian a/c report nothing found in this area.

- Unconfirmed: in the Indian Ocean. Initial reports were the US was sending the KIDD there, but I believe those were wrong


Conspiracy Theories:
- There are lots of conspiracy theories out there - from the Malaysian government hiding something to pilot suicide, to hijacking to whatever.

- We have no data to support any of them.

- The breadth of the countries searching alone makes me discount many of the 'government is hiding it' aspects

- It is likely there are covert (secret) resources in the area that are trying to provide the info without revealing themselves.


Mobile phones
- We know that if any mobile phones were connected to the tower - we would have a location and would search there.

- We don't have any reports or evidence of that - so I conclude that it is not viable to consider.


We have lots of complaints about incompetence.
- I've been in and in command of large emergencies and been the one responsible to communicate to large groups.

- Even in the best situations, with cooperating agencies - it is easy to portray incompetence when what is really going on is hard work that is not providing the desired result.

- Complaints continue and will despite what any authority does till something happens.


We have had a lot of "false" sightings. I can not keep up.
- This is common and we need to investigate the credible ones. Most will be false.

- The Chinese Satellite data has not resulted in any findings.

- Indian aircraft have searched (some) near Andaman and Nicobar and nothing found


----------------------
In summary
We KNOW 4 things.
- The a/c disappeared from secondary radar and stopped communicating. We do not know why or what happened to it.

- There is some evidence that it traveled west. But that evidence is not conclusive or sure.

- We have not found it despite multiple governmental agencies from multiple countries searching hard.

- We have a better idea were it is NOT

**** SUMMARY PROVIDED BY MEMBER: rcair1 (Post 77 from thread 23) ****



Enjoy the forums!

Regards and thanks for your co-operation,

SA7700

[Edited 2014-03-14 13:21:18]


When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
448 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineflyenthu From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 379 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 90709 times:
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The Malaysian Airforce had initially indicated catching something flying to the west on its radar. Does that check with the satellite ping locations that was in the westerly direction? It should shouldn't it? If in fact the Malaysian Air Force's radar return is MH 370, then the track should fall right on the line between two pings. Won't it?

User currently offlinestrandedinbgm From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 349 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 90443 times:

Quoting flyenthu (Reply 1):
If in fact the Malaysian Air Force's radar return is MH 370, then the track should fall right on the line between two pings. Won't it?

I should think so.



It's 737s, 747s and 380s. Not 737's, 747's and 380's. Learn to use the apostrophe for crying out loud.
User currently offlinespacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3649 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (8 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 90528 times:

Since my post in the last thread was after the thread lock, I'll repost it here:

Quoting davidzill (Reply 249):
I brought up the gradually progressing fire making its way to the avionics bay, combined with the loss of systems, oil rig worker observing burning plane, a recently reported sea flor event near where the "burning plane" was observed, and subsequent Chinese satellite photos of possible debris.

Only one witness said he saw something that he thought *might* have been MH370 - at night, from far away. The Chinese satellite photos have already been debunked, although the area was re-searched (for something like the third or fourth time) anyway, apparently just to satisfy everyone who saw those photos.

The progressive fire scenario requires way too many implausible jumps in logic. A plane that can apparently withstand a continuously burning fire for hours. Pilots that are fine signing off from one controller, but too incapacitated literally the very next moment to squawk 7600 - after their comms go out at the very same time. An autopilot that apparently continued to work throughout, *or* pilots that were so incompetent that they did not attempt a landing or even a descent despite a burning fire that had already knocked out their comms and transponder. Planes can fly for a time on their own if trimmed properly without autopilot, but not forever as they burn fuel and get lighter, and not through changing weather conditions. So for 4 hours of flight, you'd have to assume someone or something was controlling the plane, even though no attempts at comm were made and all other systems were seemingly knocked out by this 4 hour fire.

This scenario is so far-fetched that *it* sounds like the conspiracy theory at this point.

Quoting Sligo (Reply 250):
The SOP for this sort of thing is clearly not working., so if "Us offcials" are going to say anything to anyone, then give us a leader and give us scheduled press conferences that are US-led.

It's not our place to do that. Imagine if there was a plane crash in Iowa and when our investigation stalled, Russia instead just started holding press conferences about it and announcing their findings. How offensive would that be?

The US strategy right now seems obvious: conduct a shadow investigation, leak pertinent info to the press. That way they make it appear that the Malaysians are controlling the SAR and investigation, but the stuff the US wants to get out to the public, gets out to the public.



I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offlineflyingturtle From Switzerland, joined Oct 2011, 2451 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (8 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 90051 times:

Repost after thread lock.

Quoting imatams (Reply 274):
Have you been watching 'Contact'? (the Jodie Foster SF film)

I actually thought of using our best radio telescopes - like those in Jodrell Banks, Arecibo and the Very Large Array - to record all signals from MH370 as they are reflected from other planets.

Well.

Quoting ComeAndGo (Reply 278):

And, do you have the numbers of these Airbus Pinto fuel tank explosions?


David



Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
User currently offlinetomlee From Canada, joined Aug 2010, 349 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (8 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 89746 times:

Just as I though before it was inmarsat that saw what quite literally where pings from the satcom modem. (Not Boeing as some articles mention) although they don't quite reveal how long/where the plane was during the "routine and automatic" transmissions.

http://www.inmarsat.com/news/inmarsa...nt-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370/


User currently offlineseat55a From New Zealand, joined Jan 2013, 86 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 89226 times:

Quoting tomlee (Reply 5):
although they don't quite reveal how long/where the plane was during the "routine and automatic" transmissions.

According to the Inmarsat interview in the NY Times, the location has to be calculated by triangulation. That wouldn't be very precise but would direct to east or west of KUL. You can probably put this together with the claims in the WSJ and say "several hours flying westward."


User currently offlinelgbga From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 187 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 89240 times:

So please don't jump on me if it's been mentioned and for posting a conspiracy theory (not saying it's true) but has anyone else read the info about Jacob Rothschild, Freescale, and a newly acquired patent circulating around?
  


User currently offlinetomlee From Canada, joined Aug 2010, 349 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (8 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 88985 times:

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 3):
The progressive fire scenario requires way too many implausible jumps in logic. A plane that can apparently withstand a continuously burning fire for hours. Pilots that are fine signing off from one controller, but too incapacitated literally the very next moment to squawk 7600 - after their comms go out at the very same time. An autopilot that apparently continued to work throughout, *or* pilots that were so incompetent that they did not attempt a landing or even a descent despite a burning fire that had already knocked out their comms and transponder. Planes can fly for a time on their own if trimmed properly without autopilot, but not forever as they burn fuel and get lighter, and not through changing weather conditions. So for 4 hours of flight, you'd have to assume someone or something was controlling the plane, even though no attempts at comm were made and all other systems were seemingly knocked out by this 4 hour fire.

This scenario is so far-fetched that *it* sounds like the conspiracy theory at this point.

What theory is more probable depends on confirmation and total switching of the search zones. If the radar and satcom data doesn't prove the plane was on the other side of the country which hasn't been officially confirmed then a fire is far more probable. If the satcom data does directly correlate with multiple primary radar tracks and it follows a very specific route then a hijack or non-fire is far more plausible. We will have to wait till there is confirmation which will come in the form of stopping the search in one area or the other.

Also in my opinion I highly doubt a plane with halon or other inert gas system (even de-pressurization can't stop a class D fire) short of a foam or sand based system could stop a class D metal fire from undeclared checked cargo.


User currently offlineflyenthu From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 379 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 88793 times:
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Quoting tomlee (Reply 5):
Just as I though before it was inmarsat that saw what quite literally where pings from the satcom modem. (Not Boeing as some articles mention) although they don't quite reveal how long/where the plane was during the "routine and automatic" transmissions.

This removes any doubts about the identity of those signals/pings. As all of this new info was coming along, I was taking the ping information with a grain of salt as well. However, now it is for certain that it was MH 370 as corroborated by INMARSAT themselves. This makes me much more comfortable with the westward flightpath hypothesis.

[Edited 2014-03-14 13:13:48]

User currently offlinetomlee From Canada, joined Aug 2010, 349 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (8 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 88778 times:

Quoting seat55a (Reply 6):

Inmarsat uses geostationary satellites with either global beams or spot beams the global beam would provide very poor positioning information but is only for slow data. The spot beams would provide a general area without even needing triangulation as the constellation doesn't require multiple satellites to work.

Example coverage map, http://www.inmarsat.com/service/swiftbroadband-iga/


User currently offlinenupogodi From Canada, joined Mar 2014, 911 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (8 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 88754 times:

Quoting seat55a (Reply 6):
the location has to be calculated by triangulation.

If three separate satellites heard them, that is.



A man must know how to look before he can hope to see.
User currently offlineAT From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1050 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 88324 times:

Did they find anything from searching the cockpit crew's home? I didn't recall any follow up on that front.

User currently offlineJimJupiter From Germany, joined Sep 2011, 252 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 88344 times:

From the previous thread:

Quote:
CO953 From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 124 posts, RR: 0
Reply 273, posted Fri Mar 14 2014 20:24:22 your local time (34 minutes 9 secs ago) and read 5322 times:

Quoting JimJupiter (Reply 267):
The very fact that we can't even agree on the factuality of what is presumably the last word heard from the plane (it was discussed early in theese threads, but how do you find something in here anymore?) makes a separate thread:

How unbelievably frustrating!

I have been scouring Google but cannot find any story about the "mumbling" being debunked, whereas the description of the last contact with the plane, with the "mumbling and static," is still in every major news story up to and including the present.

It is frustrating - oh yes!

So, I was reading back into the first 8 parts of this thread and tried to search the old goggle...

- I am not the only one who remembers that this was debunked (at a press conference, I presume). From thread #6:

Quote:
David L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9398 posts, RR: 42
Reply 108, posted Sun Mar 9 2014 16:58:19 your local time (5 days 3 hours 22 minutes ago) and read 73517 times:

Quoting Mark2fly1034 (Reply 103):
As stated before a pilot said he was in contact with the pilot at 1:30am

And that has been dismissed as untrue.

The story actually is still in many news reports. But no more than what was said in the initial NST-article. No name, further information or statements. And, what gives me hope for the state of my memory, it's not in Avherald, which I'd consider the most reliable source on that matter:

http://avherald.com/h?article=4710c69b&opt=0

Quote:
Rumours like other crew establishing contact to the accident flight after radar contact was lost, phone contact to a mobile phone of one the passengers of the missing flight or the aircraft having landed in China or Vietnam, are false.

That's what we've got.

[Edited 2014-03-14 13:18:08]


One is born, one runs up bills, one dies.
User currently offlineThunderboltDrgn From Sweden, joined Jan 2012, 705 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 88149 times:

Quoting flyenthu (Reply 1):
If in fact the Malaysian Air Force's radar return is MH 370, then the track should fall right on the line between two pings. Won't it?

Yeah that would make some sense route wise (blue line):

http://i.imgur.com/PwuVqzb.png



Like a thunderbolt of lightning the Dragon roars across the sky. Il Drago Ruggente
User currently offlineflyenthu From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 379 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 88169 times:
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Quoting flyenthu (Reply 9):
This makes me much more comfortable with the westward flightpath hypothesis.

Need to make a correction. The INMARSTAT makes me much more comfortable with the fact that the plane was in flight for 5 some hours beyond radar drop-off. This should eliminate the catastrophic event theory when taken together with the ACARS and transponder shutdowns.

We are still not confident about the location nor 100% sure of the westward path; although it appears that westward path was likely.


User currently offlineComeAndGo From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1041 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 87931 times:

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 3):
This scenario is so far-fetched that *it* sounds like the conspiracy theory at this point.

TWA800 -- central fuel tank explosion. Did they have any time to squawk anything to anyone ??

It doesn't have to be a conspiracy at all.


User currently offlinedavidzill From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 64 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 87934 times:

I'm sure all of the possible airfields have been checked out by now? That would quickly rule out landing somewhere. Does the ground crew keep a copy of the load sheet with fuel on board? But gee, this still just doesn't eliminate the theory of a landing, they could have landed for a quick refuel and unloading of passengers and cargo. This is such an unprecedented aviation mystery. In time with patience, intelligence assets will profile each and every passenger and crew member. I think if this is a human-factored sabotage or hijacking, it may end up being the most unsuspecting passengers or crew as the root cause. The U.S.S. Kidd should be arriving in the Indian Ocean about now, let's see what they come up with.

User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 997 posts, RR: 51
Reply 18, posted (8 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 87688 times:

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 3):
It's not our place to do that. Imagine if there was a plane crash in Iowa and when our investigation stalled, Russia instead just started holding press conferences about it and announcing their findings. How offensive would that be?

So to be clear, you are suggesting that not offending the local bureaucrats is a higher priority than conducting the most effective search, rescue, and recovery.

Another thing. Malaysia isn't the United States and the United States isn't Russia. If it offends the Malaysians that we have far more resources and capabilities to conduct a search, then who honestly cares?


User currently offlineOURBOEING From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 475 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 87465 times:

Do you think that any of the suspected landing strips/spots in those islands would have the length to handle a 772?

I am also hoping as everyone else for a positive outcome but am not too optimistic if you factor all the scenarios.


User currently offlineMitico12 From United States of America, joined Mar 2014, 31 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 87471 times:

Forgive my ignorance on the capabilities of the B777, but as may have been mentioned before, does this aircraft come with a system that automatically transmits data indicating that it has crashed?

If so, could that transmission ability be manipulated manually by someone on board?

I find it hard to believe that someone would do all this to crash an airplane and be silent about it. I'm certain that, above all, the perpetrator (if indeed it was comandeered) would be proud of himself and want to leave some sort of signature that was found...my two cents.


User currently offlinehivue From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 1101 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 87416 times:

Quoting flyenthu (Reply 15):
This should eliminate the catastrophic event theory when taken together with the ACARS and transponder shutdowns.

I believe it has not been established that ACARS shut down.


User currently offlineFltAdmiralRitt From United States of America, joined Apr 2013, 50 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 87253 times:

Regarding the Plane Following Navigation Way Points.

If you assume the pilots had cascading electrical failiures (comm.trans..etc), Things would have gotten very busy.
While trying to diagnose the problem, They could have placed the A/C on autopilot. and
set a preliminary navigation route, never intending to have it fully executed, since they assume
they would take control of the A/C when it was closer to Malasia. Before they got close to the coast.
the electrical problem became a FIRE problem. Now the pilots would be busy fighting this fire, and
in the smoke and confusion, they did not have the luxury of putting new navigtation instructions into the
flight computer before they were overwhelmed. The A/C could have kept flying for a long time before
Auto Pilot malfunctioned.


User currently offlineiberiadc852 From Spain, joined May 2005, 270 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 87000 times:

I asked before, but I didn't see answers. (Maybe because of the very long thread, but I anyway I'll try to be more clear)

What is the likehood of a non-777 pilot could have landed at night in a non-standard airport with transponders OFF?
(In order to discard the scenario of one pilot doing so, and also incapacitating his colleague)


On the other hand, thinking about the worst (not because I like but because I think it's necessary).
Which secret/hidden airports/airstrips which could hold a 777 for landing and taking off could be nearer places where nuclear weapons could be taken to?



variety is the spice of life; that's what made the "old times" so good
User currently offlineComeAndGo From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1041 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 86806 times:

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 18):
If it offends the Malaysians that we have far more resources and capabilities to conduct a search, then who honestly cares?

Yes, but if you keep looking in the wrong place then you're waisting your resources. More importantly, the FDR locating pingers will stop working soon.


25 hivue : If we knew that they wouldn't be secret/hidden.
26 seat55a : So if I understand correctly you ONLY get the general area and triangulation isn't even available, because the transmission is aimed and only one sat
27 blueshamu330s : Whether the Transponder was on or off makes zero difference to the pilot's ability to fly the thing. Rgds
28 k83713 : Yes, but debris were found as logical consequence of that explosion. Here communication stopped, but no debris at the place where it stopped and not
29 ComeAndGo : What are the chances of a non 777 pilot making it into the cockpit after 9/11 ? How about very slim. You're more likely going to have one of the pilo
30 tomlee : Based on Inmarsat's website normally only one sat serves a large area (depending on the service) and the aiming is static as the sat basically sits l
31 LTC8K6 : What a bizarre case... I suppose it could even be a plane flying a route programmed by a hijacker, before he committed suicide? What if one of the pil
32 RJAF : It would be great to know how much SAR capabilities have advanced (mainly in terms of high tech etc..)since the AF447 loss in 2009?
33 LTC8K6 : What if the crew had a habit of relaxing cockpit security and inviting passengers in?
34 ComeAndGo : Because TWA800 blew up into two pieces. Lots of debris ended up spilling into the sea. If the explosion was less powerful and the plane remained inta
35 GipperPDX : I dont understand folks saying that pilot suciide makes no sense because of the extra hours of flight towards the Indian Ocean. Seems to me there are
36 jcxroberts : So were they (whoever they are) after the pane or what was on the plane ? We haven't heard a peep about cargo, just a few rumors. If the target was ca
37 Mitico12 : The ocean is vast. My skepticism tells me that this thing hit the Indian Ocean last week. By now, unfortunately, parts of the airframe are like findin
38 ComeAndGo : On a night flight with a bunch of Chinese ??
39 AT : This is why the home of the flight crew needs to be searched and family members interviewed to the extent allowed by law. In the event it was just an
40 tomlee : If your asking if the stronger door can't be breached I'm sure with enough time/effort it could be as it was just hardened to increase the security r
41 huxrules : Is there a way to determine if a 777 landed at IXZ. It looks like it was headed directly for it. With it's six wheeled bogeys it might make a differen
42 davidzill : A background of the Egypt air pilot showed he was being investigated for rape of a hotel employee and had several mistresses. His world appeared to be
43 kmot : These threads are moving so quickly. Can someone give an updated with what we know... what we think... and so on? Thanks
44 enilria : Pilot suicide makes no sense to me and he seemed pretty upstanding. To me it has to be terrorist related. It makes no sense to try to kill everybody
45 LTC8K6 : What does "Chinese" have to do with anything? I have always wanted to see the view from the cockpit of an airliner at night. Besides, we'd be talking
46 fortunerunnner : Zero or quit low possibility of landing in Port Blair, the airport as well as area around Andaman & Nicobars is controlled by Indian Defense forc
47 wilcal : You miss the first post of this thread?
48 ADent : There is a nice summary in post one of this thread. Thanx mods for posting that. TL;DR - No new hard data. It is widely suspected the satellite link
49 Hywel : The fact that some Malay people don't like the Chinese (just look at the way they treat Chinese Malay people in Malaysia itself)
50 ComeAndGo : Check the thread starter there's a summary
51 LTC8K6 : But there were 75 non-Chinese on board, and who knows how many people with false ID's?
52 flyenthu : What?!? Unless I missed something, didn't the WSJ report establish the ACARS (data transmission) was shutdown at 1:07am and then 14 mins later the tr
53 davidzill : Runway 29, IXC, the aircraft was on a course to intercept a final approach course for the runway. The airport does not have published procedures, and
54 764 : This might be completely insane, but I wanted to throw it out there anyway. As we all know, one reported theory puts the aircraft near Pulau Perak. Is
55 z3jj : One thing I am wondering about. PIC being the airplane enthusiast that he was, what is his username on airliners.net[Edited 2014-03-14 14:05:09]
56 hivue : That was the time of the last transmission. See the summary/sanity check in the OP of this part.
57 ComeAndGo : Those girls posing with the FO were good looking Australians, right, not brick layers ? You're thinking along the line of spotters hitching a ride in
58 ADent : The WSJ also earlier established they had engine data for hours (later retracted). I have not seen official confirmation from another source that the
59 Post contains links hamiltondaniel : Breaking @ NYT: According to Malaysian military radar (presumably now interpreted by the US and China), just after the transponder disappeared the air
60 ThunderboltDrgn : I think you mean IXZ (Veer Savarkar International Airport) at the Andamans?
61 davidzill : The aircraft is at the bottom of the sea, no one has any idea where to look, black boxes will stop transmitting after a month, and it will take YEARS
62 N328KF : Given many things I am not intimately familiar with, I cannot speak specifically with respect to the Inmarsat (or other GEO) systems, but in general,
63 huxrules : Looking at that runway at IXC. It's plenty long you could land a 777 there do a hot fuel up and take off again without getting near the terminals. You
64 flyenthu : I see, it is nuanced. ACARS stopped rather than "shut down." To me "shut down" has a human action aspect for some reason.
65 N328KF : If it's in the Sunda Trench, we may never find it. If we do, pressure may take its toll.
66 Post contains links DTW2HYD : There are no advancements in deep sea SAR capability. Research vessels have some search capabilities with ROVs. Some navies can search little deeper.
67 davidzill : Sorry, IXZ is what I meant.
68 flyingturtle : About the stuff that is slated to be published tomorrow by the New Straits Times... I've read here that both the Straits Times (of SIN) and the New St
69 Post contains links EXMEMWIDGET : Good article to read about how hard it is to find planes lost at sea. http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/s...ng-mh370-flight-conspiracies-aattp
70 fortunerunnner : But how can it be done without involvement of Indian Military. All of Andaman & Nicobars are constantly under surveillance and controlled by join
71 Post contains links LTC8K6 : It's beginning to sound a bit like a wild goose chase... http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/15/wo.../asia/malaysia-military-radar.html [Edited 2014-03-14
72 flyenthu : OK it is "preliminary assessment of data." We know where some initial analyses usually lead. How can frame integrity be maintained at 45000? The pres
73 norm1153 : While I have skipped some of the posts in this topic, I'd like to mention this thought. Apologies if it's already been covered. The pilot's simulator
74 Post contains links k83713 : NYT reports of sharp changes in altitude and heading after lost contact. Was there fight on the deck? http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/15/wo.../asia/mal
75 PhilV : Thats interestesting. Maybe someone brought it up before. But. There was, as everyday, a big wave of flights towards Europe at this time. Maybe MH370
76 Sligo : Understood, but a sincere question for you. How long does the SAR and the comm have to be off the rails before the US (due to being in the top 5 of c
77 LTC8K6 : Not too far off it's certified ceiling of 43100, so it's probably fine.
78 GipperPDX : 1. There were two pilots. 2. Plenty of seemingly normal / upstanding people commit suicide. It would make plenty of sense if you want your loved ones
79 tomlee : Part of the problem is that ACARS doesn't provide a constant data stream and is only expected to transmit on events or periodically. Unless the WSJ h
80 hamiltondaniel : Per the NYT article above (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/15/world/asia/malaysia-military-radar.html) I won't say the NYT has never been wrong, but th
81 CO953 : Depending on the internal pressure.
82 ADent : Quite interesting. They claim to have some detail from the radar and they also claim to be matching that data from RR Engine data.
83 LTC8K6 : Could the 45K be to rapidly kill everyone with a depressurization?
84 Post contains links flyingturtle : No problem. In aviation, the safety margin is always large. If I flew at 45000, I would rather care about engines overheating and flaming out, like i
85 hamiltondaniel : The problem I've had with the intentional hypoxia theories is that it might not kill them. If I understand correctly on Helios the passengers were ou
86 blueheronNC : Variation on 4 - this hold the passengers until after they've committed a terrorist act with the plane, and then release the passengers no worse for
87 iberiadc852 : Well I don't believe an actually hidden/unknown airstrip may serve T7 to land and take off. I meant by that an airport/runway that could be secretly
88 difrano789 : My small meteor theory is fitting better and better this case. And yes the plane is at the bottom of indian ocean and we may never find it..
89 Shanwick1011Z : A thought has been running through my head for some time! Could the captain have been training any one or two passengers on that aircraft on his home
90 hivue : Which, if true, means ACARS was still operating past 1:07am.
91 blueheronNC : "Malaysian officials have acknowledged that military radar may have picked up the plane, but have said they took no action because it did not appear
92 ADent : I guess. But the useful time of consciousness and FL350 is 30-60s and FL430 is 9-15s. So you are just shortening the time by 45s. If the aircraft mai
93 hamiltondaniel : It's possible, but frankly the captain's credentials are unvarnished, and even home PC simulators are good enough for a LOT of what you would need to
94 KL808 : Just out of curiosity, is it possible for the pilot to disconnect the CVR on the 777? If foul play did happen, I hope that this did not occur like wha
95 hivue : There's a big disclaimer in the article on the quality of the engine data. A 40,000 fpm decent rate????
96 LTC8K6 : Those were crew members who had portable oxygen bottles, iirc. And the flight never got anywhere near 45K feet.[Edited 2014-03-14 14:29:51]
97 Mitico12 : Just throwin it out there with the whole NYT citing of the 45K FT ascent - Do you think the Malaysians knew this information all along, yet held it se
98 adriaticus : "FIRST ON CNN: A classified analysis of electronic and satellite data conducted by the United States and Malaysian governments shows Malaysia Airlines
99 7BOEING7 : No!!! The ACARS was not shut down at 1:07AM, its last transmission was at 1:07AM. The Malaysians never said it was shutdown.
100 UALWN : So first the WSJ claims RR got data from the engines. Then it retracts this information: only pings from the plane to the communications satellite wi
101 PW100 : It removes nothing. Inmarsat has confirmed they received "pings" from the airplane . . . as is to be expected as it operated normally FOR over an hou
102 iberiadc852 : Ok. But anyway, could we think of the 777 landing at night in a non standard airport but with any navigation (i.e. ILS) help? Or iwould we better req
103 davidzill : Well with the CNN and NYT reports, something wild and chaotic was going on inside that aircraft.
104 LTC8K6 : I would research the planes, routes and crew members, etc., if I were going to try to hijack a plane... I would take a few flights and see what goes
105 DJM18 : Two Questions on NYT Article: - How accurate would a primary radar be with respect to altitude? - Given that it was early in the flight, could a 777 w
106 by738 : No
107 tomlee : If they have the insane engine altitude rate data why would it be so wildly inaccurate and discounted, does it use a independent measurement or a com
108 7BOEING7 : He doesn't have to disconnect it, it only lasts so long then starts recording over itself. So if the airplane did fly for several hours after the wes
109 hamiltondaniel : KUL-PEK is a very light fuel load for a 777-200ER.
110 hivue : The article addresses that.
111 blueheronNC : Would a portion of the fuselage/wing including the engines breaking off and falling at terminal velocity allow for such a descent rate that would be
112 DAL763ER : I've been following the threads and am intrigued by the number of possible scenarios that went on that night. It's sad that we have no clue what happe
113 tomlee : I highly doubt ACARS reports normal but invalid data if the engine falls off. And I am certain ACARS won't get data from an engine that isn't attache
114 k83713 : How can you predict the flight crew if you are not in an airline planning department? I guess they rotate crews and the schedule is not really known
115 aftgaffe : OK, on any other day I would laugh if someone asked this question, but is there a way to parachute out of a 777 DB Cooper-style. I know the 727 hatch
116 Post contains links ideekay : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTN9tWr-3l8 Interesting, if they still would continue after those 5 hours, they could be over pakistan..
117 KL808 : Doesn't the 777 CVR have 120 minutes? Thats 4 hours! So you might be right. But it will be close
118 hivue : It's deemed vanished right now. If enough people get comfortable that it's actually at the bottom of the Indian Ocean then SAR efforts likely will be
119 LTC8K6 : People talk... They post on Facebook and Twitter... They talk in the restaurant or at the bar, etc... They talk about their day, their job, where the
120 davidzill : Day 7....and we are largely unsure of what ocean to even look in.
121 hivue : DB Cooper left with cash. Why would anyone want to hijack a 777 just to skydive out of it?
122 Post contains links DeltaAtl : Via LiveATC.net Good communications link http://www.theatlantic.com/technolog...ane-apparently-kept-flying/284414/
123 LTC8K6 : Or if we should look in the water...
124 aftgaffe : Boeing pilots - will a 777 even allow you to climb above the service ceiling?
125 Mitico12 : OK. So let's say the new report of the aircraft taking two possible flight paths and crashing in the Indian Ocean, do you not believe that in the past
126 Post contains links and images flyingturtle : Of course you can. Here you are: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine_Airlines_Flight_812 But this poor bloke used a home-made parachute... David
127 hivue : The Indian Ocean is very large and ships and 777s are very small.
128 Mir : Flight at 45000 will not jeopardize the structural integrity of the airplane. Flight at 50000 wouldn't either. The cabin has its maximum differential
129 AirPacific747 : Most plausible explanation is pilot suicide I think. The communications were switched off deliberately, the aircraft was flown out to the middle of th
130 kpitrrat : How far could that plane have flown on one engine? Would that have extended it's range?
131 ADent : With a saw, plasma cutter, or explosives - sure. The main doors swing forward - so no go while in flight, even with the plane depressurized. I assume
132 billreid : Now CNN is reporting the NY Times states the aircraft climbed to FL450. That is peculiar. I don't know how easy it is to get a B777 to well above its
133 k83713 : It seems as reasonable question in current circumstances. What about scan of the hand luggage? Would not be security team wondering why someone takes
134 aftgaffe : No idea. But it would appear like somebody[ies] who knew the 777, who knew how to fly, and who know how to evade a lot of detection put a lot of thou
135 Mir : 120 minutes is two hours, not four. -Mir
136 kevinkevin : If this was pilot intention to sabotage this aircraft, I don't think the pilots should have access to turning off both the transponder or the ACARS sy
137 7BOEING7 : That's 2 hours on this planet. Yes If it took the southern track there is absolutely nothing out there south of India until you get to Antarctica exc
138 zeke : ACARS is a communication system a bit like a home router, it will route messages via VHF, HF, or satellite datalinks. The maintenance systems, ADS et
139 Post contains images socalgeo : Interesting. I plotted the waypoints and the distance along the path described earlier is almost 1100 miles. I also read that the US Govt stated that
140 MarcoT : ROTFL: so either was head or either was tail? And one need a classified analysis for that data... Seriously, the fact that such a review, conducted u
141 7BOEING7 : Maximum operating altitude is 43,100ft but if it was light enough it could possibly make FL450, depending on where the "coffin corner" is.
142 tomlee : ACARS isn't the comm system it is a reporting system the Satcom modem, VHF, HF modules are the modems/gateway/routers. ACARS is an application which
143 hivue : I don't know about anyone else but this constant re-asking of questions that have been answered (sometimes multiple times) just a few posts earlier i
144 aftgaffe : Who knows then. Maybe he/she/them programmed the A/P for flight toward the Indian Ocean where it would crash from fuel exhaustion, but bailed when th
145 Mitico12 : If that's the case, then let's hope the person that comandeered the A/C made everyone hypoxic because to ditch in the middle of an "oceanic nowhere"
146 garpd : In theory it will keep climbing until the wings stop producing enough lift to sustain flight. Then it practically stalls. FL430 is the stated max ser
147 AR385 : Would depend on weight and outside air temp. I don´t think they would´ve been able to climb more than to 45,000 ft.
148 7BOEING7 : No but you have ELTs in each of the 8 slide/rafts you're floating around in which would have had rescue parties on site several days ago. What's goin
149 Post contains images rcair1 : Service ceiling is more related to performance than pressurization - also the speed at which an a/c can descend to safe altitude in the case of sudde
150 Indy : Given the odd behavior of the flight and the amount of time the flight continued on, I think we can pretty much eliminate mechanical failure or some a
151 aftgaffe : I know the plane could physically climb to FL450 and beyond. My question was will the plane accept commands to keep climbing past the service ceiling
152 ADent : You almost certainly can not get to FL450 in level flight at that weight. But you can "zoom" climb past your level flight max altitude. A stall is a l
153 davidzill : The recent reports are starting to point towards outside of the cockpit hijacking. Maybe take a closer look at the two Iranians? It sounds like someon
154 CaliAtenza : can the autopilot store multiple routes at once? Like say for example, lets say the pilot or co-pilot had programmed this route that we now know took
155 art : What is the NY Times source?
156 Post contains links and images ChaosTheory : Not very. On a similar sector we would carry around 50t. The Pakistanis have excellent military radars covering their borders. It would be unlikely t
157 seat55a : "a preliminary assessment by a person familiar with the data." But they also have the grace to quote
158 rcair1 : Yes - it does. However, I'm also finding that the threads move so fast that often by the time I've composed and posted and answer - there have been s
159 ADent : "American officials and others familiar with the investigation"
160 eal46859 : Why does the Transponder on any commercial airliner even have the ability to be turned off ? Is there a reason or situation that a commercial airliner
161 hivue : Our good friend the senior official who wishes to remain anonymous because he is not authorized to talk about the issue.
162 hivue : Actually, I'm sympathetic to that problem as well. But then I see this:
163 tomlee : On ground to reduce clutter, In air if it malfunctions or partially fails. Ops wrong reply quote.[Edited 2014-03-14 15:32:16] [Edited 2014-03-14 15:3
164 DeltaMD90 : Sigh... CTRL+F is your friend. This has been explained MANY MANY times. There are many reasons and unless clueless lawmakers get their way, transpond
165 JoeinTX : It can go bad like any other item on the plane. Short out, start a fire, tec. You need to be able to turn it off in cases like that. Most everything
166 SonomaFlyer : Maintenance/troubleshooting can be one reason. You also have to have the ability to change the squawk codes at a given time at the direction of air t
167 JoeinTX : I've started leaning, with this latest info, toward a fight in the cockpit. Whoever took the plane afterward knew too much about navigation and airlin
168 nupogodi : Oh, really? Thanks for your (clearly expert) opinion.
169 CityhopperNL : So basically the whole story that someone shut down ACARS and turned off the transponder 14 minutes later has been debunked over the course of today.
170 hivue : That is not my quote (and I am the last person on this forum who wants to have it attributed to him; see my post 162).
171 Post contains links iberiadc852 : Possible tremor related with the missing (if that would be the case, 1.5 hours after loss of communication) http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Natio...act
172 JoeinTX : No it's not. No idea why it attributed that to you.
173 cpw : I think one thing that is important to note is that the satellite pings - from what has been leaked to the media - ended. No "officials" have come out
174 imatams : Well they can hardly say "It's Gary the sub-editor two desks away who's read a story on ElvisLives.com" The trouble with these anonymous sources is t
175 747megatop : Dunno about excellent radars but this kind of intrusion would have led to the scrambling of fighters both by India as well as Pakistan; short of trig
176 tomlee : I don't trust WSJ's wording one bit as they went from RR to Boeing to Inmarsat (some are citing iridium?, even with an official inmarsat press releas
177 s5daw : Dear lord... this has gotten hysterically insane.
178 doug_Or : Seriously? They haven't even located the plane and you're ready to discount the possibility that it was an accident? We know nothing. Nothing. The ti
179 ADent : Only by unnamed sources. The only reliable data is the last transmission was at 1:07AM. Reports yesterday was that it was turned off early. Reports t
180 JAAlbert : If the plane landed and then took off for a more distant location, wouldn't it continue transmitting the ACARS data? It would seem to me that if some
181 ChaosTheory : Apart from the extreme Northern Areas, Pakistani airspace is covered by Lockheed Martin TPS-77 radars. Tracking the 777 would be a piece of cake.
182 liquidair : Sorry if somebody has already mentioned this... But is anyone in the UK watching the channel 5 "the plane that vanished"? what a load of absolute driv
183 wjcandee : I wouldn't be so fast to say that certain things have been "debunked". As CPW so aptly notes above, transparency isn't going to happen in a criminal i
184 noflies : Considering latest unconfirmed report that it climbed to 45k, above approved altitude limit and made a sharp turn dropped to 23k feet, then back up to
185 Rara : It's very near impossible. Crew rotations are confidential; precisely to protect family and friends from media attention if something were to happen.
186 desh : Assuming India lets an unidentified object to cross its airspace ... doubt if that aircraft would make it to the India Pakistan Border, unless of cou
187 moose135 : The incident, or the 24 (and counting) threads here?
188 SeeTheWorld : I think this information supports pilot suicide/homicide more than anything else, based on all the other data we have.[Edited 2014-03-14 16:03:23]
189 Post contains links SCQ83 : I find the flight simulator itself intriguing. http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/14/wo.../malaysia-airlines-pilot-profiles/ According to CNN: I am not a
190 Post contains links 747megatop : I had posted it earlier. Is this the one you are talking about? - http://oceana.org/en/explore/marine-places/andaman-sea
191 Post contains links 747megatop : Would not be the first; has happened before - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_Boeing_707-323C_disappearance
192 wjcandee : One thing I haven't seen explored is the significant possibility that the CVR and DFDR would have had their breakers pulled early in the proceedings..
193 theaviator380 : Thanks for letting us know, I thought I missed something exciting ! as I was busy doing few things, was gutted forgot to record it, but may be I will
194 CityhopperNL : Yes I agree. In my earlier post I said "debunked" and that was towards the claim yesterday that "ACARS was turned off" while these transmissions are
195 solarflyer22 : Well I have to eat some crow, as I thought they were def wrong. It wasn't the engines reporting but clearly they got some kind of early intel. My gue
196 desh : No - but this helps. Gives me the info I was looking for. Was not sure deep the ocean is in that area. Thanks you for sharing !
197 747megatop : What about Indian airspace? I imagine Indian military could track equally good. So, begs the question why didn't they detect the 777 in the Bay of Be
198 pvjin : That's quite probable. If we assume whoever was flying the 777 wanted to hide its remains as well as possible flying far into the Indian Ocean would
199 SCQ83 : I meant passenger flight... certainly cargo is commercial too.
200 ranold76 : I'm thinking the climb to FL450 radar data isn't accurate and the RR 40,000ft/min drop data is erroneous.
201 BridYYC : Could you elaborate on why it would support suicide/homocide? I was thinking a couple of things: 1) could it possiblty have been efforts to put out a
202 Post contains images CaliAtenza : if you think its gone insane on A.net, have a peak over here: https://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6757 some crazy theories, but
203 Post contains links and images 747megatop : At least India & Pakistan would I think; they are paranoid about each other. And in fact; the answer is simple thanks to google - http://www.decc
204 theaviator380 : Shoot it down without giving much notice?
205 ThunderboltDrgn : No, they would send up a fighter or two to see what the unknown echo on their radar screens is.
206 capri : It's time to start thinking and investigating non-conventional and irrational theories, like dimensions in the atmosphere that science never knew it e
207 747megatop : See my reply 203. I posted a link there.
208 theaviator380 : Thank goodness it didn't end like KAL007 or Iran air flight !
209 Post contains links SCQ83 : Btw the CNN link I quoted has a link to this forum... I hope this has not been posted yet. http://www.x-sim.de/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=20&st
210 Post contains links N328KF : I'm afraid you've been beaten to the punch: http://www.theonion.com/articles/mal...nds-investigation-to-includ,35524/
211 ikramerica : Anyone notice that the Chinese govt has repeatedly attempted to shift focus away from searching the West by releasing information pointing at the orig
212 Post contains links Mouldypete : The excellent summary prepared by rcair1 (Post 77 from thread 23) which is reproduced at the head of this thread makes it clear to me that we have no
213 capri : thanks for link, and good to know that someone is looking into those possibilities into the unseen world to the naked eye
214 PW100 : Apart from how one would explore such a thing without having access to these unit, how would explore that issue help finding the plane . . . ? I cont
215 bajamatic : For someone whose work schedule is confidential, this guy is not too worried about personal exposure. Not that I'm judging him, per se, just commenti
216 MarcoT : Naturally we hope for this to happen, but I don't see any reason to be so optimistic. AF447 ended up relatively near the last known position, yet nob
217 bajamatic : couldn't agree more.
218 456 : :D Needed that one
219 shortstack81 : First time poster, long time lurker. I joined to ask a question about the oil rig worker and his sighting. It has kept me up at night because of its l
220 ThunderboltDrgn : I don't know but I assume that they already have searched the peninsula and besides with the amount of air traffic going all over it, somebody would
221 capri : am with you on this and how quickly they discredit this witness and no one tried to push for a verification or an up close search into the oil spill
222 BO__einG : I think Boeing needs to conduct a test flight using one of their aircraft and attempt to create a scenario where the crew does whatever possible to ev
223 desh : To be honest - I'd be more worried of IAF over reacting rather than under reacting. That being said someone asked about why with all the radar covera
224 Post contains links and images timpdx : The new Gebco undersea map was just released, its a beauty in high resolution. Here is the undersea area of interest, I labeled the map with a few key
225 na : I dont know if the Chinese attempted to shift focus away from searching in the West deliberately, but their contributions seem not to have been helpf
226 MSY-MSP : I think the evidence is leaning more towards this being an intentional act and not anything related to a mechanical failure. The radar data, if the 45
227 Post contains images socalgeo : I've updated my live map with a Gebco seafloor basemap and vector bathymetry. Free live map:http://sandbox.maps.arcgis.com/apps/OnePane/basicviewer/i
228 cougar15 : Agree on the Cockpit door, but those do ´tend to open´... never know " who is on the Crew" Flying (capability to...) a 777 , well, there are certai
229 Post contains links prebennorholm : No, there were many, especially from 1946 and some 20 years forward. Have a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aerial_disappearances and sc
230 CX Flyboy : I think Boeing should start marketing the 777 as the next generation of stealth bomber. huge payload, and clearly invisible to militaries.
231 na : Even if it crashed into a deep ravine in the Indian Ocean and wont be found for a long time or never there will be some pieces of debris washed ashor
232 cptkrell : Correct, of course. Many folks don't take into consideration the relative scale of things.
233 chrisrad : Of which most are small aircraft, or occurred 40-50 years ago with a tiny fraction of the technological power we have today.
234 777Jet : Does anybody know of the main shipping lanes in the Indian Ocean? If it did crash into the water there I would guess that some floating debris might
235 Post contains images desh : Yes it does. I was curious as to how deep the ocean goes. Seems water depth is comparable to where the Air France black box was found - but this, I t
236 socalgeo : No problen - I've added the USGS earthquake map service to the layers list in the live map if you want to explore. Cheers, SoCalGeo
237 Post contains links LandSweetLand : You can have a look at www.marinetraffic.com to see where broadcasting ships are at the moment. Unfortunately, like ads-b it requires stations to pic
238 gr325 : 6 minutes ago Flying With Fish send the following tweet. "Flying With Fish ‏@flyingwithfish 6m @TheLeadCNN On Tuesday I started tweeting about cargo
239 iberiadc852 : If it weren't because you didn't mention the ultra-long range and the acrobatic capabilities I would think you are joking.
240 Post contains links 456 : Ok.... I am not a fan of spreading around some (new) theories, but what if: There was a pilot en route in the jumpseat, similar as http://en.wikipedia
241 Post contains links 747megatop : http://people.hofstra.edu/geotrans/e...gallery/Map_Strategic_Passages.pdf
242 airplanebrain : On a 777, how long will the CVR continue before being overrun? If the plane flew 4 hours past its disappearance, is possible that we will never hear w
243 DTW2HYD : Land based primary radar coverage goes out only 60NM. So that is a problem if you have large water bodies like Bay of Bengal and Indian Ocean. To mit
244 Post contains images 764 : About those reports of the aircraft climbing and descending erratically: I assume that is not based on GPS data but other measurements. Considering th
245 747megatop : The 2nd best post so far in 20+ threads. The best one has been the 777 climbing into outer space.
246 nupogodi : What about active phased array radar and OTH radar? Surely there's enough of those in the region, especially India. OK but radar imaging is NOT radar
247 Tangowhisky : Many countries are worried that the airplane landed somewhere and can be used as a delivery system with bad bombs inside. The plane has to be found.
248 456 : Hahahaha definitely no.1!! However the one mentioned today about that the T7 would have entered a different time dimension is heading to my top3....
249 ksbd : The altitude changes seem reminiscent of JAL 123. Since the service ceiling is 41000, there is no real benefit for a hijacker (or otherwise) to ascend
250 vfw614 : Interesting point. Could explain why the aircraft flew for four hours after a possible "take-over" - to make sure no recordings will be found that do
251 Mul : Can a satellite phone be used while on the plane? I wonder if the govts have checked for any sat phone records to figure out any communications made.
252 cptkrell : Unfortunately today's technological power have produced about zero results in the past week.
253 nupogodi : Then we would be looking for a 2nd aircraft. Who would be in the flight levels other than airliners? Malaysia apparently had them on PSR right from L
254 456 : According to CNN (http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/14/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/index.html?hpt=hp_t1) they are now offically looking in the ind
255 Post contains links tockeyhockey : just a theory, but what if there was a fire in the cockpit that took out most relevant systems, but was controlled in time to keep the autopilot activ
256 nupogodi : I believe it would be specific to the model of CVR used on the accident a/c. The minimum legal requirement is 30 minutes. I don't know what standard
257 777Jet : In regards to the hypoxia theory, that the plane just kept flying until it ran out of fuel... Is there something, like how trains have a "dead man's s
258 Starlionblue : Malaysia is a sovereign country. You can't just go stomp all over their sovereignty. Diplomacy is often frustrating, but it is better than the altern
259 456 : Yeah it might be privay, however I hpe that safety (or solving an incident in order to increase safety) would be more important than safety.
260 Starlionblue : The SAR effort will likely continue for years if the plane is not found. However it will be severely scaled back. Yes, it will cost money, but in the
261 Stretch : I wonder how much this singular event will change the way airlines and manufacturers "fool proof" comms/tracking systms for the future? This is the la
262 DTW2HYD : When the target is silent only thing helps is how powerful your radar is. rcair1 explained it earlier. Airborne Warning Systems are more popular than
263 ksbd : I'm talking about a possible midair with maybe a drone, missile, military aircraft or rear pressure bulkhead explosion. I see no reason for a 777 to
264 suseJ772 : I have made this point the whole time. First the Satellite images. Then the seismic activity. But then again, I got REEMED for being xenophobic and i
265 nupogodi : This is true. Also, space-based radar surveillance is not a science fiction concept, we just wouldn't know if anyone has built one. The power require
266 Post contains images CaliAtenza : ah okay, yeah the FMC, that's what i meant to say . Thanks for the clarification . Why i asked is that the turn was pretty sharp; almost instantaneou
267 nupogodi : Also - right, I'm aware, but military has power... The modern phased arrays are highly sensitive and can accurately calculate altitude, as far as I k
268 777Jet : What do you think about this idea I proposed below? Assuming something similar is not already in use...
269 CaliAtenza : Weren't the Soviets and the US trying to do this during the Cold War?...i swear i read about this somewhere....
270 Post contains images rebr : I don't believe that the plane landed, but I like the thought of it. Just curious: how hard is it to change the fixed 24-bit ide tification code for M
271 suseJ772 : You're maps are great. I put together a map for figuring out where the Tomnod images were, but your map takes the cake. Thank you.
272 solarflyer22 : I think its union driven but on CNN they said two hours.
273 nupogodi : The Soviets put some in LEO with nuclear reactors. With LEO for constant surveillance of a large area you need a huge constellation. With geostationa
274 davidzill : I'm sure the sonar guys on on the U.S.S. Kidd will be working around the clock.
275 jcxroberts : They want to normalize the use of their military in that area, which is highly disputed.
276 Stretch : Something along that line may work, but we have to plan a way to "prove" the authenticity of this action. Who pushed the button, and are they in comp
277 LTC8K6 : Service ceiling is 43,100 feet, according to several sources.
278 747megatop : Wonder what the sonar range is. Also, won't adding submarines to the search make sense too?
279 Stitch : But their RORSATS only had the imaging power to find large ships and task forces, not a 777 in flight. A US Lacrosse bird might be able to do it, but
280 N328KF : It'd have to be active sonar. Range is shoddy and won't help much if the aircraft is lying in the trench. Subs can do better (they can go below the l
281 777Jet : I'm not suggesting it as a means to alert the ground to hi-jacking, but as a means to rule out hypoxia and know that somebody is flying the plane and
282 CaliAtenza : wouldn't doubt there are a couple SSBNs in the water....i'm sure there always are. As far as i know, they usually don't announce if there is a sub th
283 nupogodi : No doubt, but they were designed in the 60s! We have highly sensitive receivers and enough compute power to throw at filtering noise now. Anyhow, it
284 ksbd : 43,100 feet is still not 45,000 feet.
285 PDXflyer31 : I have a theory. The plane was flown to Burma. Its being taken apart and shipped to China in crates, to be reverse engineered. China did this before w
286 socalgeo : I added a shippings lanes map service to the map:http://sandbox.maps.arcgis.com/apps/OnePane/basicviewer/index.html?appid=95cbede59b3e471eb14b52c3629
287 Stretch : I see what you're getting at. How about a simple O2 sensor then? If below x amount of O2 signal sent as an alert to the ground
288 socalgeo : Thanks! If you have coordinates and url links for any of the Tomnod images I can add them... SoCalGeo
289 suseJ772 : I have been saying the same thing as a theory (not that I believe it, but as a theory) since Part 7 for almost the exact same reasoning you have and
290 N328KF : Let's see...we have around 50 active SSNs...or let's use a strategic asset like an SSBN...
291 undertheradar : I cant comment on MAS procedures...but I do know that on some airlines, cabin crew are REQUIRED to make call the flight deck via the interphone (the
292 LTC8K6 : ACARS probably reports, or can report, cabin pressure.
293 Post contains links suseJ772 : http://mh370.exodus.vyinnovation.com - you probably know how to pull it from the source code, but if not, I can send it to you in a CSV if you want.
294 davidzill : Sonar range of the Kidd is unknown to me, its most likely classified. I'm sure we sent at least a few submarines to the area, who have classified, top
295 Post contains links infinit : Burma/Myanmar is chairing ASEAN this year for the first time ever. Part of the reason Burma was able to reform so quickly was its inclusion in ASEAN
296 davidzill : If the aircraft is where the U.S. Navy is searching, we will find it, probably this weekend. Time is of the essence because of the time limit of the b
297 777Jet : As long as the cabin crew were able to get a message to the ground that sounds good. The thing about this mystery is that nobody on the ground knows
298 Dreadnought : Why would they do that? China owns dozens of 777s, if not a hundred or more. They have more than enough to study.
299 maxpower1954 : Partial list of missing passenger commercial flights that vanished without a trace...just off the top of my head. 1938 - Hawaii Clipper, Pan American
300 Stitch : Far easier to just write-off one of their own 777s in an "accident" (say like what happened to that Etihad A340-600) and just scrap it on site and lo
301 jelliesR : Significant Lithium battery shipment in cargo. Sorry I didn't see this posted and did a search. NYT says there was a significant lithium battery shipm
302 lweber557 : If the Chinese wanted to reverse engineer a 777 it would be alot easier to just "borrow" one from a Chinese airline then to pay off a pilot from anot
303 suseJ772 : I'll give you the fake accident was the only thing someone suggested that made sense as a simpler method. I think their idea was a hanger fire. So I'
304 CaliAtenza : Isn't there always a SSBN on patrol in each ocean? I'm sure there are SSN's in the area as well..
305 undertheradar : my post is based on my theory that I posted many posts ago! im not going to repeat the whole thing...way too much repetition already!! in a nut shell
306 btfarrwm : I think it's more likely that the Chinese government blew the plane out of the skies to avoid another potential 9/11 rather than this elaborate schem
307 audioace87 : https://twitter.com/Johan_Jaaffar/status/444615514568929280/photo/1 I have seen this in the thread yet. Aparently the NST broke their big news on the
308 N328KF : US SSBNs can hit their targets the moment they leave port. There's no reason for them to be in the Indian Ocean. There are usually several each in th
309 Stitch : Well if they wanted to ditch it in deep water to make it harder to discover what happened, that does make some sense. But if it was a suicide, I woul
310 gulfstream650 : Mods- please can we have a new thread. Thanks
311 Tangowhisky : Exactly, Well said.
312 jelliesR : only one post so far, in all these topics, apart from mine with the word lithium in it, according to google. Sorry I might be wrong on that but I did
313 undertheradar : ..... the 'workings' of an individuals mind is harder to decipher.... there's a thing called 'Asian pride' and 'saving face' in this part of the worl
314 Stitch : Well we would first have to confirm the batteries were aboard and that they were lithium-ion batteries (lithium batteries are significantly more stab
315 Dalavia : Thinking laterally along that line, can a large package of lithium batteries be used to conceal some other kind of cargo, in the way that lead can hi
316 777Jet : So then the wreckage should be roughly in the area they have been searching? But still nothing...
317 jelliesR : Well the confirmation is in the NYT from US officials presumably the cargo manifest. I'm familiar with lithium batteries shipped by air and they are
318 Tangowhisky : The plane flew perfectly for over 4 hours on a constant altitude in what seems to be an airway (authorities are not saying which one). If you look at
319 jelliesR : Why? A lithium fire goes out, after a while, and the plane can still be flyable. Just who knows in what state. Imagine someone with a welding torch r
320 jelliesR : I'm reading it flew "erratically". There is not zero evidence of malfunction, there is almost zero *communication*. That is very different.
321 JAAlbert : I'm not sure that's any more likely or simpler a scenario than a couple of hijackers storming the cockpit or one of the pilots going nuts.
322 777Jet : Yes, "saving face" is one of the most important things in this part of the world. I can't see that ever changing, even for the sake of an investigati
323 socalgeo : Done, You can use the bookmark tool, or you can zoom into the Tomnod Challenge area. I set the scale dependency so the points only draw when you are
324 mymorningsong : What is the duration of recording capacity for the cockpit. NBC Nightly News I just watched mentioned two hours, but that seems wrong.
325 jelliesR : It has precedent. There have been a number of lithium fires, and hazardous cargo fires, and with random outcomes from risky to deadly. But post 9/11
326 Starlionblue : You wouldn't need to use the FMC at first. Just enter a new heading in the Master Control Panel and switch from LNAV to Heading mode. Once on the new
327 Tangowhisky : Only for a short while. See my Post 247, and read the NYT article. The transponder went off 40 minutes into flight while at a constant reporting alti
328 LTC8K6 : ACARS would presumably transmit a cargo smoke detector alarm long before the fire got serious.
329 jcxroberts : That flyingwithfish guy on twitter mentioned lithium batteries in the cargo manifest days ago. Also that the x ray machine was down.
330 777Jet : Apparently it was the cargo of only MH370 that was not x-rayed... I remember reading that.
331 jelliesR : Perhaps someone can verify that. "presumably" sounds like you don't actually know. If there was smoke in the cargo hold or heat, does it ping this in
332 William60 : Not sure if this has been covered, but I hear CNN panel experts point to the skill required....the difficulty of landing the plane in the black of nig
333 zeke : I would love to see the NOTOC, Malaysia is one of the largest producers of batteries for personal electronic devices. Cargo suppression systems are u
334 Post contains links LTC8K6 : http://avherald.com/h?article=44062b99 Scroll down to see ACARS messages from this 747 cargo hold fire.
335 mymorningsong : So if 2 hours is accurate, wouldn't that explain why they stayed aloft for so long. To delete prior conversations?
336 N328KF : That thought had crossed my mind, but surely that would be ancillary.
337 jcxroberts : If you read the oil rig witness letter carefully, he writes that the fire went out while the plane was still in the sky: "From when I first saw the b
338 seat55a : Well, is it an accidental fire, or was it something else that needed to not be x-rayed? He should pick a story and stick to it... We are still at the
339 Post contains links Razza74 : 8th March 2014 sunrise in Port Blair http://www.timeanddate.com/worldcloc...=3&year=2014&obj=sun&afl=-11&day=1
340 Starlionblue : You mean in a "life insurance" scenario? I suppose. But it is yet another unlikely scenario IMHO.
341 undertheradar : still dark after 5hrs....even if around 1hr flying east and 4hrs flying west....flying west actually 'gives' you more darkness..as this flight depart
342 Tangowhisky : We are talking about hijacking a very sophisticated airplane that has a very accurate inertial navigation system, and an autopilot that has various l
343 777Jet : Correct. Well it did not take them long to find something: "First debris was found floating at position N33.2522 E125.0186 about 2 hours after commun
344 Dalavia : I am trying to make sense of the often conflicting information. Please allow me to advance something that tries to tie together the current state of i
345 764 : That's news to me..... and I work in the field of autonomous aircraft and computer vision. Afaik, you do need an approach guidance system to automati
346 William60 : Undertheradar, Yes, the plane was heading away from sunrise, but I was counting five hours after the "good night" from plane to tower... Now I have to
347 Starlionblue : As 764 says, you can't autoland the plane without ground based equipment, specifically an ILS (Instrument Landing System) installation. I suppose in
348 Tangowhisky : I never said autoland. The autopilot can bring the plane close enough to whatever lat / long and heading he needed to bring to (via FMS through IRS s
349 Post contains links Razza74 : If they departed at 00:41 and flew for 5 hours and ended up on the same parallel as the Andaman Islands that would be 05:41 and http://www.timeanddate
350 Starlionblue : Fair point. But you still require a person with a relatively high level of piloting experience. Light prop experience helps of course but airliner po
351 Tangowhisky : Sure, But in my view this was a B777 qualified pilot.
352 solarflyer22 : Nice post. Assuming hostile intent, do you need specific knowledge of the 777 to silence its communications the way it appears to be done?
353 nm2582 : Quite the conspiracy theory, but if the Chinese had solid info that it did in fact need to be blown up, and they did so, and had a very somber and se
354 Starlionblue : Only for one of the three items. The other two would be trivial for any pilot, even without airliner experience. You can probably find the EE breaker
355 777Jet : Can you confirm where the EE bay hatch is? I read before it was located in the forward galley, which would make it more difficult unless the hijacker
356 764 : Hmm, lithium batteries, something happened right after a turn, electronic malfunctions (transponders etc.), drowsy or incapacitated pilots, fire in th
357 ivanoruvan : It's very difficult to approach this mystery on many theories. Why not take one at a time and stop where we have no further ideas. I'm sure many of yo
358 764 : OK, now it makes sense to me. Sorry for the confusion. If he did land manually at a remote location, he would have needed daylight though.....
359 PHX Flyer : Oxygen starvation yes, but not to put out a fire. Rather to kill the passengers and uninvolved crew. Always assuming that what we have learned about
360 Starlionblue : I'm thinking he'd get an error message on the screens if the transponder failed. Actually I'm not sure we know they descended 3000ft. Anyway if there
361 RyanairGuru : Maybe I missed it, but did you take into account that Port Blair is 2.5 hours behind KUL? If the aircraft disappeared at 00:40 GMT+8 and flew for 5 h
362 William60 : 764, That was why I raised sunrise as an issue...just seemed like the CNN panel was quick to assume darkness prevailed. I'm still not certain it did.
363 777Jet : If it was suicide with the intention of never being found, I think it would make sense to fly as far West as possible to one of the most remote parts
364 bajamatic : I'm starting to feel like it's suicide as well. This guy was a real aviation buff. Who knows what kind of demons he had as well, but regardless, based
365 ivanoruvan : Thank you Starlionblue. So, we can say, theoretically, any problem with the aircraft (unless hypoxia/absence of pilots or complete loss of control), t
366 William60 : Bajamatic, They're discussing motives as a key right now. Rational people naturally want to know about motives. The sad thing is, so much ugly occurs
367 YNGguins : What I thought all along... This just came out on Twitter at 11:55pm/ET: "@FoxNews: BREAKING: Malaysian official says investigators conclude missing j
368 tim73 : Somebody in NYtimes comments mentioned that the way the plane supposedly behaved, sudden altitude changes, would be like a passenger without any pilot
369 Starlionblue : That depends what you mean by area. If there was a problem, the pilots would have attempted to fly towards an airport, or at least some land mass. Ju
370 William60 : Tim, I think the erratic behaviour speaks to a struggle of some kind, a bout of nerves after takeover, or both. I have heard experts say that flying t
371 Starlionblue : With no help from outside, it would be extremely hard, probably impossibly hard, for someone with no piloting background to fly manually. However if
372 mandala499 : Since it's now in the open, I must admit... I received this information on saturday morning from my source in KL. It has everyone stumped. If the air
373 Post contains images 764 : Sorry, but my mind is still stuck on a technical problem / fire. Look at the antenna locations. If something were to happen in the front cargo bay (li
374 shortstack81 : The Associated Press is the only one reporting this, quoting a single unnamed official.
375 Starlionblue : I would say those experts are incorrect in their assessment. It would not be difficult for a pilot. For a person with no experience and with no instr
376 boacvc10 : I appreciate the fact that you held information in confidence, wild as it may be. Is there a different possibility than piracy, suicide, murder etc.
377 William60 : Starlionblue, I should have mentioned that some training or experience would be necessary, and I believe the panel made mention of this. My bad.
378 tim73 : My theory is that something hit the cockpit window (meteroid one in millions chance but still possible) and caused it to shatter. The pilots tried to
379 shortstack81 : this is my theory too. it even got close enough to the oil rigger that he saw whatever flashed but then headed over the horizon.
380 SeeTheWorld : You're the smartest guy here ... i think i know what it looks like ... what do you think it looks like ...
381 btfarrwm : I should clarify... I don't believe either theory, but one is slightly less fantastic than the other.
382 Post contains images Starlionblue : This theory has a nice ring to it, but there's unfortunately one big hole. To set the emergency code you'd enter 7700 using the keyboard. To turn it
383 Post contains links chrisrad : Malaysia confirms Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 was hijacked A MALAYSIAN government official says investigators have concluded that one of the pilots
384 Post contains links jetfuel : KUALA LUMPUR - The last satellite transmission from a Malaysian airliner missing for a week has been traced to the Indian Ocean off Australia http://w
385 Razza74 : Yes I forgot about a wee small thing called timezones
386 dreamflight767 : What about the "Tech Crew"? I believe there were 2 on board. What is their role, where do they sit during these trips, do they have access to the cock
387 Post contains links PanAmPaul : I haven't tried to read all 380 posts in this thread but it sounds like more people are moving to a "hijacking" theory versus anything else at the mom
388 suseJ772 : That's an interesting one. I have always thought about what would happen if something caused a huge crack in the windshield which left both pilots in
389 ivanoruvan : But at that speed and altitude, it would have ripped the cockpit apart giving the pilots no chance to react, right? Even if they had time, why turn?
390 Post contains links indcwby : http://www.chron.com/news/crime/arti...ght-hijacked-5316629.php?cmpid=bna Malaysian: Investigators conclude flight hijacked So now there goes the mete
391 bermudatriangle : Most of the leaks so far from the US press have turned out to be correct, in spite of great skepticism by many here on the forums and elsewhere (inclu
392 nm2582 : I find it interesting that they have no new evidence - they have merely decided that the evidence they have conclusively proves that the flight was hi
393 CO953 : A belated thank you for responding to my query: (whether the anonymous pilot's story about being asked to reach MH370 -- and hearing "mumbling" and "
394 FltAdmiralRitt : Yes, this fire incident near the comm systems is the best non-agent theory. and I dont think someone untrained could have the flown the plane in dark
395 DeltaMD90 : I'm sure they know more than us... not in a conspiracy theory sense, but just in general. People in the know seem to know more. They must be pretty s
396 suseJ772 : While this (in part) supports my earlier theories, I question the conclusiveness of this statement. Why? Just because they were tired of answering qu
397 ivanoruvan : So, they did do some background checks and hit the nail somewhere. Or at least they think they do. Interesting to know what lead they got. Any of the
398 Post contains images Starlionblue : Not sure but I think they meant the flight crew when they said "tech crew". I hear you on finding the bloody airport! It is more difficult for a few
399 SeeTheWorld : I'm afraid it is their way of gradually moving us to the suicide/homicide theory ...
400 spacecadet : It's highly likely they have more evidence than what's been released publicly. And I don't mean they're hiding it, I just mean it takes everyone a wh
401 tomlee : A class D fire as other's have mentioned (lithium being an obvious metal) would not be suppressed by halon alone nor de-pressurization even at high al
402 Post contains links flood : The PM's twitter account states "PM Najib Razak will be making a press statement at approximately 1.30pm today, regarding #MH370" http://twitter.com/
403 suseJ772 : Agree 100% with your statement. But as I read it, the Malaysians are saying that, and, no offense to them, they haven't been the ones in the know. It
404 chrisrad : Have not heard this area being discussed yet!! Amazing
405 flymia : If it is "conclusive' they must have a lot more information than they are sharing with the public. That being said they don't need to share it to the
406 Post contains images suseJ772 : First Mandela thanks me for providing the Tomnod data, and then you confirm to me that even the best of pilots (as I hold you as one) have a hard tim
407 Post contains links DeltaAtl : So apparently a news Conf is schld in an hour or 1:30 Malay time and the authorities will announce it's a hijacking! http://bit.ly/1iM50o0
408 tim73 : They had plenty of fuel to reach north-west Australia. This latest info just does not make any sense! Unless they flew so low and fast that the fuel c
409 ivanoruvan : If it's a hijack theory there has to be a military intelligence feeding the hijackers. To avoid the international military radars or where to land. Ho
410 Post contains links CO953 : Functional LINK HERE: http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking...d-be-traced-sea-australia-20140315[Edited 2014-03-14 21:51:39]
411 Post contains links Razza74 : Oh dear, if the article is correct http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking...d-be-traced-sea-australia-20140315 and MH370 did go down west of Perth there
412 dreamflight767 : Thanks, didn't know they called Pilots "Tech Crew." Thought they were some MX folks or something of that nature.
413 jetfuel : Going out on a very wide tangent here but what if the 2 Iranian asylum seekers were originally hoping to get to Australia by illegal people smuggling
414 Post contains links PanAmPaul : It sounds like they are going all out with the hijack "theory." The Malaysian Prime Minister has a news conference in 30 min. from Malaysian Official:
415 seb146 : I heard something interesting that 20 of the passengers all worked for the same software firm. Let me adjust my tin foil hat while we ponder on that o
416 tim73 : The question is, if they did that and flew low to avoid radars through Indonesia, would that mean the fuel ran out before reaching Australia?
417 chaseus1 : Many threads ago I felt it was a botched hijacking. Still feeling that way, though I would not claim it to be conclusive yet based on the info we have
418 Post contains links suseJ772 : That's interesting because Perth is almost the exact same distance as Beijing. http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=k...E=best&RANGE-COLOR=navy&
419 b777erj145 : after reading all these post I am starting to believe that the plane was hijacked and was crashed later due to structure failure (being climbed upto 4
420 spacecadet : Did they? It seems awfully far for them to have gone north, then west, then south, then back east to Australia, while avoiding land-based radars as m
421 Razza74 : Does any one know if the Australian Defence Force Jindalee Over the horizon Radar Network was working on the evening of this event? If so could it hav
422 btfarrwm : It occurred to me In the past week that the Australian Outback could provide an Edwards AFB -like place to land a 777, but I thought it was too crazy
423 suseJ772 : I believe they were semi-conductor, not software. But I may be mistaken. I made a point about that as well in my post about Chinese espionage. It's h
424 Post contains links tim73 : Well, according to this, they had plenty: http://leehamnews.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/mh370-search-area.jpg
425 dcsben : If non-pilot hijackers intended to go west or south, why would they have targeted a flight heading north east? Why turn around, fly over the peninsula
426 N328KF : They were Freescale employees going to a meeting. Ten years ago, you would have known this firm as Motorola. IBM made the same mistake in the 1980s w
427 Dalavia : Perhaps the plane flying north-east was carrying something that the hijackers wanted?
428 Post contains links flyorski : It has occurred to myself as well. This latest information of the aircraft almost reaching Australia reminds me of Banjawarn station. The fact that A
429 spacecadet : Maybe... but first, those are just estimates - do we really know how much fuel they actually had to start with? Then you have to consider the flight
430 asmvpgold : It they wanted to go to Australia it would have been much (MUCH) easier to have just purchased tickets from KUL-> Australia instead of purchasing
431 suseJ772 : This is a question many of us have been asking this whole time, a relatively easy question for authorities to answer, yet no one has answered it to m
432 bermudatriangle : I think a detour south into the depths of the Indian Ocean (article seems to say 1k miles west of Perth, so still hours from Australian coast) fits wi
433 k83713 : If the logic of hijackers was to stay undetected as much as possible and the plane stayed in the air close to its maximum allowed by fuel on board, it
434 flymia : The engines would stall out before any structural issues.
435 fiscal : In every hijacking I have known, the perpetrators want international attention to voice their message. They may plan well, execute it well, but in the
436 BoeingVista : I've driven though the outback, no people, no mobile phone coverage, massive amounts of space, mostly flat.. But you would have to sneek it in past a
437 tortugamon : Anyone know how to watch the presser? tortugamon
438 PHX Flyer : But what would be the point of landing it there? Obviously, there is no point keeping it here permanently, and refueling it to fly on from there woul
439 spacecadet : Hopefully they've looked into that now that they've concluded that someone with "experience flying" hijacked the plane. You would think the fuel load
440 flymia : Had the same question. U.S. Stations have gone to pre-recorded news/shows. Hoping RT or CCTV has it on. Watching CCTV and nothing about the upcoming
441 airlanka : Well there was a load of Lithium batteries on board according to the reports. This can be easily can be converted to explosives in my view… So is t
442 Post contains links tortugamon : Got it: http://english.astroawani.com/ tortugamon
443 BoeingVista : Yup, getting fuel into the outback unnoticed would be a challange and the positioning doesn't lend itself to any real target. Not a logical place to
444 JAAlbert : So, with the hijacking theory now front and center - who on board did the deed? 1. Pilots: We haven't heard any credible reports that the pilots were
445 RickNRoll : If you are in Malaysia, there is no need to hijack a plane to go anywhere.
446 spacecadet : Not sure what you mean by this.
447 chaseus1 : Maybe their intent was just to turn around and try to find a target in Malaysia, and ended up getting lost. The 9/11 planes all turned back east. The
448 Post contains links SA7700 : Due to length this thread will be locked for further contributions. All posts added after the thread lock will be removed for housekeeping purposes on
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37 posted Wed Mar 19 2014 05:29:52 by SA7700
MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 36 posted Tue Mar 18 2014 20:16:15 by jetblueguy22
MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 35 posted Tue Mar 18 2014 12:04:32 by SA7700
MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 34 posted Tue Mar 18 2014 01:11:29 by SA7700