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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25  
User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 26
Posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 61681 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

Due to length part 24 was locked for further contributions. Please feel free to continue your discussion in part 25.

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B777-200ER missing enroute KUL-PEK (by Longhornmaniac Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2 (by LipeGIG Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 3 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 7 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines 772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 8 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 11 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13 (by SA7700 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14 (by SA7700 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 16 (by SA7700 Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17 (by 777ER Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 20 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 23 (by SA7700 Mar 14 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24 (by SA7700 Mar 14 2014 in Civil Aviation)



**** SUMMARY PROVIDED BY MEMBER: rcair1 (Post 77 from thread 23) ****

First - synopsis
- The ship took off normally and headed on course to Beijing

- The last ACARS transmission was about 01:07 local. This does not mean ACARS was shut off - just that was the last transmission of ACARS data (See ACARS below)

- The last comms were a normal hand-off from Malaysia to Vietnam control at about 1:30 local

- It was a normal 'good night' on the Malaysian side, but Vietnam was not contacted.

- The aircraft dropped off secondary radar with no communication from the cockpit.

- There are some reports of a descent and turn based on primary radar. The descent was on the order of 3000 ft to 29,500.

- There are subsequent primary radar returns west over Malacca Straight.

- Since it is primarily radar - a reflection - we do not know that it is the accident a/c.

- We STILL do not know if it was a track (multiple returns) or a few points returns.

- We have 'reports' of SATCOM system pings for some hours after LOS (loss of signal)

- There is confusion (and argument) about the content of those pings and if those pings can provide location information (See SATCOM below)

- We have no ELT signal detected.


ACARS
- ACARS is an automated aircraft health management system that transmits a/c maintenance information to maintenance facilities like the airline, Boeing, Engine Manf, etc.

- ACARS is NOT a flight system - it is not needed for safe flight - it is a maintenance system

- ACARS is a subscription service and costs money. All indications are the MH370 was subscribed only to engine health monitoring and data from that is sent to Rolls Royce.

- ACARS communicates via VHF or SATCOM (and maybe Wifi at the gate). The communications channel depends on availability and is independent of the ACARS.


ACARS data from MH370
- MH370 sent 2 ACARS (or rather Engine Health) reports to Rolls Royce. The last was approximately 1:07

- Rolls Royce's would have expected only 1 more transmission at landing - that was never received.

- NOTE: this fact is in dispute - some reports say a transmission every 20 minutes or so was expected - however I believe that to be incorrect.

- The fact that the last ACARS was sent some time before the transponder signal was loss does not mean ACARS was turned off at that time. ACARS transmissions on this ship are not continuous


SATCOM
- SATCOM is a communications channel - Satellite Communications. It is a radio system that uses satellites to communicate various information.

- SATCOM is not ACARS - it is one of the channels ACARS can use.

- The last communication via SATCOM was the last ACARS message at 1:07


SATCOM Pings.
- The SATCOM system sends (or responds to) periodic 'pings' to/from the satellites. These 'pings' are a network communication that says "I am here." They are often called "keep alive" signals.

- SATCOM pings are not communicating a/c status, they are part of the communications channel.

- There are reports that SATCOM pings were heard for up to 4 or 5 hours into flight (or after LOS)

- NOTE: to those complaining it took to long to report this - remember the SATCOM pings are deep in the communications protocol and not what people would normally look at. How often do you look at the basic network traffic on your router?

- There is speculation that the SATCOM pings contain altitude, heading, speed. From a communications standpoint that does not make sense.

- I believe what is really happening is that experts in this system are trying to derive some location, speed, etc. information from the nature of the pings For instance, what satellites did they hit, when and how strong. Much like GPS, you may be able to derive information about location.


Way-point Tracks:
- There are reports and maps today of a track following way-points.

- The source (Radar? Satcom? Visual?) and veracity of this information is not confirmed.

- At this point I cannot state any factual data related other than it is being discussed in the press


Airworthiness Directive
- The airworthiness directive about corrosion near the SATCOM antenna does not apply to this ship.

- The ship DOES have SATCOM - but uses a different antenna


Search Areas Based on this information - authorities are searching:
- Along the planed route

- West over the Malacca straight

- North west of Malacca straight

- Near the islands of Andaman and Nicobar. Indian a/c report nothing found in this area.

- Unconfirmed: in the Indian Ocean. Initial reports were the US was sending the KIDD there, but I believe those were wrong


Conspiracy Theories:
- There are lots of conspiracy theories out there - from the Malaysian government hiding something to pilot suicide, to hijacking to whatever.

- We have no data to support any of them.

- The breadth of the countries searching alone makes me discount many of the 'government is hiding it' aspects

- It is likely there are covert (secret) resources in the area that are trying to provide the info without revealing themselves.


Mobile phones
- We know that if any mobile phones were connected to the tower - we would have a location and would search there.

- We don't have any reports or evidence of that - so I conclude that it is not viable to consider.


We have lots of complaints about incompetence.
- I've been in and in command of large emergencies and been the one responsible to communicate to large groups.

- Even in the best situations, with cooperating agencies - it is easy to portray incompetence when what is really going on is hard work that is not providing the desired result.

- Complaints continue and will despite what any authority does till something happens.


We have had a lot of "false" sightings. I can not keep up.
- This is common and we need to investigate the credible ones. Most will be false.

- The Chinese Satellite data has not resulted in any findings.

- Indian aircraft have searched (some) near Andaman and Nicobar and nothing found


----------------------
In summary
We KNOW 4 things.
- The a/c disappeared from secondary radar and stopped communicating. We do not know why or what happened to it.

- There is some evidence that it traveled west. But that evidence is not conclusive or sure.

- We have not found it despite multiple governmental agencies from multiple countries searching hard.

- We have a better idea were it is NOT

**** SUMMARY PROVIDED BY MEMBER: rcair1 (Post 77 from thread 23) ****


Malaysian official says missing plane hijacked

Missing Malaysia plane MH370 said to be traced to sea off Australia




A REMINDER TO ALL OUR MEMBERS:


**** Out of respect to the crew, passengers and also family members; close to those onboard MH370; please keep science fiction theories and content related to possible future movie rights out of these threads. ****

**** Please do not repeat questions and scenarios that were covered and discussed in previous threads and which do not contribute in a constructive manner towards the real topic any longer. ****

**** Please make an effort to read through some of the threads, if possible the latest in the series, before adding your own comments and theories to the current, active thread on this issue. ****

**** PLEASE BE RESPECTFUL TOWARDS OTHER USERS AND KEEP THE FORUM RULES AND REGULATIONS IN MIND WHEN POSTING IN THE FORUMS. SHOULD THERE BE ANY RULE VIOLATIONS, PLEASE BRING THIS TO THE ATTENTION OF THE MODERATORS BY MAKING USE OF THE “SUGGEST DELETION FUNCTION”. ****

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Enjoy the forums!

Regards and thanks for your co-operation,

SA7700

[Edited 2014-03-15 03:27:59]


When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
309 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinemurchmo From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 61724 times:

http://seattletimes.com/html/nationw...d/2023125752_apxmalaysiaplane.html

"A Malaysian investigation into the missing flight 370 has concluded that one or more people with flying experience switched off communications devices and deliberately steered the airliner off-course, a Malaysian government official involved in the investigation said Saturday."



to strive to seek to find and not to yield
User currently offlineRyefly From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1396 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 61411 times:

Regarding a popular theory of terrorist activity, here are some observations and questions I have...

If the goal was to take a 777, what would the terrorist see in this particular flight to know in advance this flight is their best option over any other 777 flight?

Most obvious answer is because it's one of the pilots that highjacked the plane. But what if it wasn't the pilots...

- Time of day (cover of darkness)
- Location of departure in range of where they wanted to take the plane
- They knew the airspace
- They knew a weakness in Malaysia Airlines
- They knew they could get a weapon past security in KLIA to take over the plane similar to 9/11
- Perhaps they knew the crew previously - access to cockpit.
- Member of the crew such as Flight attendant, or employee of the airline.

We know 9/11 terrorist performed dry runs before that terrible day. Perhaps terrorist onboard have previously flown this flight before as a dry run? A check of the passenger manifest against any other previous flights any of the passengers took could answer this.? Especially previous 777 flights.


User currently offlinespacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3650 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 61190 times:

Reuters live stream is showing the press conference: http://www.livestation.com/en/reuters


I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offlineimagoagnitio From Australia, joined Mar 2014, 26 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 60939 times:

OK, so if the 'highjackers' have taken the plane for a future purpose, what is coming up in the next 6 months or so
of 'world-wide' importance that they would want to use a 777 flying bomb for?

What would be within range of this loaded 777?

World Cup in Brazil? it would be easier to highjack a South American plane due to distance?

G20 Summit, Brisbane, November 15th & 16th.


User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 884 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 60915 times:
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What about the theory of a cargo fire such as from lithium batteries. We all know what happened to two UPS freighter jets because of this.

User currently offline4holer From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 3040 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 60365 times:

Several threads ago, I wrote my theory about pilot suicide and how people who take their own life often counter the self preservation instinct by doing something that doesn't directly kill them, but puts them in a situation that even if they change their minds and want to live, they cannot survive, like suicide by cop, jumping off a bridge, or maybe flying an airplane beyond its ability to get back to a runway.
Nothing since then has made this scenario less plausible.



Ghosts appear and fade away.....................
User currently offlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1584 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 60108 times:

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 5):
Reuters live stream is showing the press conference: http://www.livestation.com/en/reuters

Time for the theory of the day then.

I understand the Prime Minister will be holding this press confrence so the press would be expected to be more respectful than of late.



BV
User currently offlinezeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9210 posts, RR: 76
Reply 8, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 59691 times:

Quoting murchmo (Reply 4):

- ACARS is an automated aircraft health management system that transmits a/c maintenance information to maintenance facilities like the airline, Boeing, Engine Manf, etc.

ACARS is not a health management system, that is the CMC on the 777. ACARS is a communications network run by SITA that aircraft connect to via radio or satellite, the aircraft has a ACARS management unit which connects various avionics to the ground ACARS network. Airlines and OEMs have ground based links to this network to upload and receive data.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlinetomlee From Canada, joined Aug 2010, 349 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 59714 times:

Also in terms of the ACARS being shut off I haven't read anything to say why they know it was deliberately shut off before the transponder (One of the main reasons in the news as to why it is a hijacking) when at most it transmits once every 20 minutes and I do in fact believe rcair1 recap on the ACARS not regularly transmitting is correct. Not to mention how does the engine send data after the point when they turn off and send insane data. (The two stories the news are running don't make sense and are in contradiction of each other or are very poorly worded)

User currently offlinegregorous From United States of America, joined Mar 2014, 2 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 59799 times:

Quoting imagoagnitio (Reply 6):
Quoting imagoagnitio (Reply 6):
OK, so if the 'highjackers' have taken the plane for a future purpose, what is coming up in the next 6 months or so
of 'world-wide' importance that they would want to use a 777 flying bomb for?

What would be within range of this loaded 777?

World Cup in Brazil? it would be easier to highjack a South American plane due to distance?

G20 Summit, Brisbane, November 15th & 16th.

The Nuclear Security Summit is March 24–25, 2014 in the Netherlands at The Hague.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_Security_Summit


User currently offlinefooflyboy From United States of America, joined Mar 2014, 45 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 59523 times:

_begin speculation_

It may be a hijacking, but not a botched one.

I've seen posts asking questions like "Why would a hijacker do this?", "For what purpose?", "Where are their demands?", etc. First of all, that's mostly 20th Century thinking. Terrorists these days just blow people up. They don't have "demands" - just a mission to kill and wreak havoc.

Think back to 911. What the terrorists accomplished on that day is obvious on the surface. But in addition to the destruction and lives lost, they also managed to cripple our civilian aviation. All flights were grounded until security measures could be put into place to prevent that sort of thing from happening again.

Of course planes began flying again, but at a high cost - in the form of new on-going increased security, and a whole new government department being formed (Homeland Security). Somewhere I believe I remember reading some alqaeda person as gloating about how they will now hopefully bankrupt the US economy.

These terrorists are evil, certainly. But they are not necessarily stupid. You can be sure they have been studying long and hard to find ways to wreak havoc with commercial flights since 911. These guys are patient and dedicated. It's their life. So they watch. And do their research. They find a weakness. A way into the cockpit (what good is a locked door anyway if you're going to open it for lavatory breaks and meals??). Plus they find a crew member who likes to show off and is liberal with the rules to boot. It may even have been decided that the lead hijacker needed to be an attractive female.

So their plan was to make an airliner disappear into thin air. They very nearly did it. By downing the plane where they did, it makes it extremely hard to find. Even if you figure out where, the water depth is so extreme that recovery is extremely difficult. And even if you manage to do that, they have out-flown the CVR and FDR so you find nothing of any use. Message from the terrorists: "We are smarter than you.".

So let's say that this is what happened. We're all stumped and mystified. Scratching our heads. Thinking that this event is a "one-off". (I really do hope that it is)

But... what happens if another plane "vanishes". (This time they would be sure not to overlook power to the satcom) If this other shoe were to drop, imagine what the ramifications would be.

It could cripple the passenger airline industry globally. Airlines would stop flying until it was determined what was happening and measures were taken. Now that would be something I could see some terror organization striving for. They could literally bring the world to its knees.

_end speculation_

[Edited 2014-03-14 22:58:11]

[Edited 2014-03-14 23:01:08]

User currently offlinenm2582 From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 124 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 59621 times:

they are setting up the press conference now.. just announced, NO QUESTIONS, a bit of a gasp from the press.

User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5703 posts, RR: 29
Reply 13, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 59329 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 7):
What about the theory of a cargo fire such as from lithium batteries. We all know what happened to two UPS freighter jets because of this.

Maybe this?:

Quoting murchmo (Reply 1):
http://seattletimes.com/html/nationw...d/2023125752_apxmalaysiaplane.html

"A Malaysian investigation into the missing flight 370 has concluded that one or more people with flying experience switched off communications devices and deliberately steered the airliner off-course, a Malaysian government official involved in the investigation said Saturday."

It would seem - at the moment at least - that the people "in the know" have concluded some sort of nefarious intervention in the flight took place. It's up to you of course but I'd personally hope that thread #25 (!) should finally start focusing on this specific preliminary conclusion. It'd be nice to narrow things down a bit so that we can stop repeating the same theories that have been listed ad nauseum in threads 1-24. (This isn't meant to be rude to you personally. I'm just personally exhausted trying to stay current in these threads and the repetitive 'what about XYZ?' merry-go-round needs to stop at some point).

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1584 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 59303 times:

Quoting nm2582 (Reply 12):
They are setting up the press conference now.. just announced, NO QUESTIONS, a bit of a gasp from the press.

Not a great start, but most likley related to the PM being present.



BV
User currently offlinechaseus1 From United States of America, joined Mar 2014, 74 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 59021 times:

Quoting imagoagnitio (Reply 6):

OK, so if the 'highjackers' have taken the plane for a future purpose, what is coming up in the next 6 months or so
of 'world-wide' importance that they would want to use a 777 flying bomb for?

I think it was more likely meant for an immediate purpose, and not future. Maybe the Petronas Towers, and they simply couldn't locate them or KL at night from up high.... So they gave up trying. Still a lot of fuel on plane... a bit after departure, take plane, turn around...copying 9/11... just not aware of how hard it is to find something at 500 mph at night. Just a guess though based on what I'm reading here.

[Edited 2014-03-14 22:59:30]

[Edited 2014-03-14 23:00:43]

User currently offlinenm2582 From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 124 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 59031 times:

Quoting chaseus1 (Reply 15):
I think it was more likely meant meant for an immediate purpose, and not future. Maybe the Petronas Towers, and they simply couldn't locate them or KL at night from up high.... So they gave up trying. Still a lot of fuel on plane... copying 9/11... just not aware of how hard it is to find something at 500 mph at night. Just a guess though based on what I'm reading here.

highly unlikely that someone with the expertise to pilot a 777 wouldn't be able to navigate it. You could carry on a portable GPS from a car and it would be enough to get you there, easily.


User currently offlinechaseus1 From United States of America, joined Mar 2014, 74 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 58668 times:

Quoting nm2582 (Reply 16):
Quoting nm2582 (Reply 16):
highly unlikely that someone with the expertise to pilot a 777 wouldn't be able to navigate it. You could carry on a portable GPS from a car and it would be enough to get you there, easily.

Unless there was a fight in the cockpit....


User currently offlineclickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9654 posts, RR: 68
Reply 18, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 58238 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Was there enough fuel on board to have flown to Diego Garcia?

User currently offlineCaliAtenza From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1581 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 58248 times:

Quoting chaseus1 (Reply 15):
I think it was more likely meant meant for an immediate purpose, and not future. Maybe the Petronas Towers, and they simply couldn't locate them or KL at night from up high.... So they gave up trying. Still a lot of fuel on plane... copying 9/11... just not aware of how hard it is to find something at 500 mph at night. Just a guess though based on what I'm reading here.

question is who is they? Those 2 Iranian kids? Who else could it have been?


User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5703 posts, RR: 29
Reply 20, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 58278 times:

Quoting gregorous (Reply 10):
The Nuclear Security Summit is March 24–25, 2014 in the Netherlands at The Hague.

That would be....awkward.

Quoting fooflyboy (Reply 11):
So their plan was to make an airliner disappear into thin air. They very nearly did it. By downing the plane where they did, it makes it extremely hard to find.

I read your whole theory. I just think FAR more damage would be done by either using the aircraft as an immediate weapon (i.e. Petronis Towers) or as a weapon delivery vehicle (i.e. dirty bomb). The latter, in particular, would do unbelievable harm to the world economy. Certainly, of all scenarios, that is the one that has gotten my attention throughout the past few days. Frankly, it'd be a relief if the alternative was that the plane is deep underwater somewhere rather than a potential "any moment" attack on a world city or religious center.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineDalavia From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 549 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 57887 times:

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 19):
question is who is they? Those 2 Iranian kids? Who else could it have been?


Were any Uyghurs on board?

[Edited 2014-03-14 23:06:12]

[Edited 2014-03-14 23:07:22]

User currently offlinechaseus1 From United States of America, joined Mar 2014, 74 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 57542 times:

I don't have any clue who... not even thinking of them really.. just someone or a couple or a few.

Also, car GPS can be entertaining to watch at 500 mph... may not have been easy to follow if not set to the correct zoom and everything ahead of time.

I just realize there are some similarities to 9/11 in the timing of taking over the plane, turning around, and still having a lot of fuel.

I also see nothing relating to Petronas Towers, except maybe copying 9/11.


User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5703 posts, RR: 29
Reply 23, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 56851 times:

Quoting Dalavia (Reply 21):
Were any Uyghurs on board?

Passenger #84?

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlinesocalgeo From United States of America, joined Mar 2014, 43 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 56498 times:

Quoting clickhappy (Reply 18):
Was there enough fuel on board to have flown to Diego Garcia?

I asked this in an earlier thread page. The answer came back that the normal fuel load would be the distance from KUL-PEK plus reserves. KUL-PEK is roughly
2700 miles, plus reserves, while no one has been able to tell us (unless I missed it) lets assume 3200 miles of range total.
Seem generous to me.

The flight path from KUL to the IGREX waypoint is roughly 1100 miles, leaving 2100 -2200 miles left. the red circle in the map below is a 2200 mile buffer on the IGREX waypoint.




If my numbers are correct, I doubt that they make it to Australia... Diego Garcia, possibly...

Map:http://sandbox.maps.arcgis.com/apps/OnePane/basicviewer/index.html?appid=95cbede59b3e471eb14b52c362966934

SoCalGeo

[Edited 2014-03-14 23:13:13]

25 Post contains links KDTWflyer : I read through the last giant thread and didn't see any mention of exactly what type of Inmarsat technology is in place here. Looking on their wiki it
26 koruman : Now that the Malaysian government has settled upon hijacking, these appear to be the options: 1) Hijacking by one or more members of the crew, for the
27 Post contains links airlanka : Malaysian government now denied it is hijacked… this is now farcical…. Didn't I expect this before ?? http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/missing-mal...cked-
28 Post contains links ushermittwoch : Not sure if this has been posted yet, but some joker in Vietnam posted this add: http://vietnam.craigslist.org/for/4372477162.html
29 fooflyboy : You may be right. But think for a minute. Were it not for the satcom pinging to lead investigators, we would know VERY little about this flight. We m
30 nm2582 : press conference in progress, covering generalities right now/reviewing history; it feels slightly defensive of their actions thus far.[Edited 2014-03
31 seb146 : Don't forget that 9/11 got the bin Sultan air base in Saudi Arabia closed. What is going on between Malaysia and China on that scale? Something that
32 Finn350 : I would say that a pilot suicide (your scenario #1) is most likely. The reason why not immediately crashing the plane we cannot know, but it might be
33 nm2582 : press conference points/confirmations: high degree of certainty that acars was disabled. transponder shut off. malaysian radar had primary return of m
34 PlanesNTrains : I'm still not convinced that the Captain had anything to do with it. Having said that, were I as into flying as he was, and I were going to crash my
35 chaseus1 : They denied that it was conclusive, but stated it is a possibility they are looking at, along with many others
36 nm2582 : more press conference points/confirmations: last confirmed satellite communication at 8:11 AM malaysian time satellite data cannot confirm precise loc
37 slinky09 : This is what the PM is saying: New information based on new satellite communication he says with a high degree of confirmation that ACARS was disabled
38 nm2582 : more press conference points/confirmations: he stepped back a step from the 100% confirmation of hijacking
39 dcsben : - confirmed deliberate action - primary radar trace consistent with satellite data - last confirmed communication plane to satellite 8:11am (??) Satur
40 jelliesR : so hijacking not conclusive at all. Mechanical or other theories equally likely / unlikely.
41 spacecadet : There was an audible gasp when he said the last signal from the plane was at 8:11AM. That's *way* later than anything we've heard before. That's certa
42 sq452 : Press Conference highlights: -ending search operation in the South China Sea -Two corridors where the plane could have gone/went: they stretch from Ka
43 socalgeo : I thought he said Kazakhstan to northern Thailand, I didn't hear the rest......wow SoCalGeo
44 k83713 : I believe it was 8:11 a.m. for the last contact, so around 7 hours after lost contact
45 slinky09 : Continuing to type almost verbatim: Nothing much more than closing words. I typed the above almost verbatim. This is explosive news, he wasn't willing
46 sq452 : Yes, I was in shock when I heard that. That time is way later and also significantly past the scheduled arrival time of the aircraft in Beijing.
47 nm2582 : My personal conclusion: someone is now in possession of a flight worthy 777.
48 tortugamon : Does anyone understand this? From my latest geography lesson that means it would be in China right? Isn't that a gigantic area to cover? tortugamon
49 rampart : Not as I heard it. The fligth path and actions were "deliberate", and I doubt that would indicate that a mechanical failure was as likely, particular
50 aviators99 : Have the calculations for range and endurance here been assuming normal cruise? If so, has anyone calculated max range and max endurance?
51 chrisrad : 8 AM not pM
52 tomlee : The search area is now huge and still in two directions with a very deep ocean as well. Inmarsat should devote more resources in to excluding at least
53 chaseus1 : Wow. They had a bunch of fuel... maybe it was a target far away then.
54 Starlionblue : The nominal max range with max payload is north of 8892nm. That's air distance and does not take winds into accounts. In context, KUL-JFK is 8196nm,
55 slinky09 : He specifically said if the northern corridor then around the region of Turkmenistan to Kazahkstan ... take a look at a map![Edited 2014-03-14 23:43:0
56 RyanairGuru : Re terrorism, I don't think that this was aimed at China, simply because it doesn't seem sufficiently focused on them. If it had been a B registered s
57 dcsben : This northern corridor (border of Kazakhstan to northern Thailand) seems pretty interesting: it would imply flying over Myanmar, Tibet and Xinjiang (u
58 tortugamon : I don't think I was listening to the same press conference that you were. In my opinion he strongly suggested without saying it, that it was hijacked
59 k83713 : And 230 people who witnessed what happened? And still no any leak from them? No one showed up, and if the plane is indeed intact, it makes me thinkin
60 airlanka : So 5 hours of fuel from South China sea is now debunked… Does anyone officially reported the actual fuel uplift when it left KUL?
61 tim73 : But it kept pinging satellites? Or the satellite radio part kept pinging while behind it the ACARS was switched off?
62 cpw : Does someone with an understanding of the technology know whether the plane would need to be in flight for the modem to ping the satellite, or does it
63 aviators99 : Is this at normal cruise, or max range?
64 Finn350 : The two corridors are interesting. Either they can be deduced from the primary radar recordings in the area excluding other corridors or from the time
65 tomlee : They said it is more probable now given how they worded things without saying conclusively / without a doubt that it was a hijacking. (The news stori
66 jelliesR : While the flight path was deliberate - in that computers don't normally get sentient - I'm not sure that anyone even the Malaysian prime minster can
67 dahawaiian : With these two corridors identified as being to the north and south of the last known location, are we to assume that the aircraft did not fly in the
68 spacecadet : Yeah, when he said that, I literally said "whoa!" That's insane! This plane could be practically anywhere, and there's a half-decent chance it's actu
69 Post contains images socalgeo : Ok, can I assume that the circle centered on the last way point is a good approximation based on your calculation? 3450 - 1100 = 2350...The circle is
70 tomlee : The ACARS controller is a separate box from the Sat modem from what I understand, so if something goes wrong with ACARS or it is turned off the satco
71 Post contains images JimJupiter : My problem with the hijacking theories: Someone is knowledgable enough to disable ACARS, then shuts the transponder off, but flies the plan "eraticall
72 rampart : I don't believe he said Turkmenistan, but rather border of Thailand to Kazakhstan, which would take it over northern Pakistan and/or western China. E
73 Post contains images Starlionblue : I am assuming normal cruise but we'd have to know the cost index used on the flight to know for sure. Then again max range cruise doesn't change the
74 spacecadet : All you need to do is use the borders the PM said - he specifically laid out the far reaches it could have made it to. It was a lot further than the
75 WingedMigrator : That assumes a nominal trip destination. We now know the destination may have been elsewhere. Do we know how much fuel was actually loaded at departu
76 N328KF : I don't know if I buy that angle...but aren't there a lot of Uighurs in that area?
77 nm2582 : conference is replaying for anyone who missed it. english.astroawani.com/
78 tomlee : Not to mention someone who knows what ACARS does and how it works enough to disable it should have also known what the satcom does and that it is wha
79 Post contains links Indy : Maybe it has been mentioned in the 20-something other threads on the subject but what about the possibility the plane was hacked? Anyone remember this
80 chaseus1 : Someone would have called if this thing isn't under water, or land crashed..... just my thoughts....[Edited 2014-03-14 23:53:38]
81 tim73 : Exactly and if they knew about ACARS, they would know about the satmodem pings maybe? Could the pinging be shutdown?
82 tortugamon : Agreed. They are convinced but can't actually say it until they have proof. I wouldn't want a PM to speculate so he said it without saying it in my o
83 aviators99 : At, say, 40% power, wouldn't the endurance be a lot longer? How would it impact the range?
84 spacecadet : Or like somebody who's trying to kill the passengers and then evade radar (or at least look like something worth ignoring). Which is just to say the
85 lscorpio : If it's not in the Indian Ocean. And if it still could have crashed somewhere, wouldn't Himalaya or Tibet be placed where an accident may be hard to d
86 slinky09 : I am listening to the playback and here are the words the Malaysian PM said in relatiion to the corridors and locations: "A northern corridor from the
87 rampart : But that's what he said, I think verbatim, "deliberately". Question him if you want, but that's their going theory (supported, as he said, by US and
88 recockulous : While speculative, that certainly is a theory that accounts for most of what we know. The only loose thread is whether the aircraft was seized by a p
89 nm2582 : listening to the conf again - to clarify the exact terms he used to describe the northern corridor: a corridor FROM: the border of Kazakhstan and Turk
90 Post contains links tomlee : From what I understand ( http://www2.cs.uidaho.edu/~krings/CS449/Notes.F09/449-09-27.pdf ) unless someone was dumb enough to put a link between the f
91 Starlionblue : We don't. I just wanted to get a rough estimate for the minimum fuel that could have legally been loaded. Range would decrease dramatically. Turbofan
92 k83713 : If it was hacked, so no physical capture of controls in the cockpit, and the crew sitting there looking at what the heck is going on but unable to do
93 aviators99 : Thanks. But I assume that I am correct that endurance would be greatly increased? If so, it is possible that even if the plane was only loaded with e
94 koruman : The flight 714 hypothesis from the very earliest threads is starting to look likelier and likelier! But so too is Chang's experience in Tintin in Tibe
95 chaseus1 : CVRs need to be set to record the max endurance of the plane, and not just a couple of hours... We may find the plane, and have no idea what what was
96 tortugamon : Technically a hijacking is a person making an aircraft go where it was not intended. We know someone deliberately did this so technically we have a h
97 ocracoke : Figure out if one of the passenger(s) "befriended" the pilot by becoming a close flight simulator pal of his, and I think you will have found your Tr
98 Indy : Someone managed to hack the point of sale terminals at Target. Sometimes it is hard to imagine the things a hacker would do to take control of someth
99 rampart : If that's the case, that is a relatively small border shared by those 2 countries, only about 300km near the Caspian Sea. Keep in mind this isn't (ne
100 Post contains images socalgeo : OK, I added a 3000 mile buffer and a 3500 mile buffer for 6 and 7 hours flight time at 500 mph... Map:http://sandbox.maps.arcgis.com/apps/OnePane/bas
101 tomlee : Although I already stated it shouldn't be possible if the entire flight control system and warnings systems were hacked things like cabin air pressur
102 k83713 : There were reports the plane landed but then they were denied. If indeed it landed somewhere in the middle after lost contact and 8:11 am, that would
103 tomlee : There is a huge and I mean huge difference between target and an Airplane flight control system. The point of sales terminals by their very operation
104 axio : Northern Thailand to the Caspian Sea contains a couple of countries that don't always make the international Christmas card list... It does then make
105 JimJupiter : So, that's the most distant point they think it might have gone to? It wasn't detected by the air surveillance of India, Pakistan, Afghanistan (US),
106 Indy : Never discount the skill and determination of a hacker. But you said it yourself. "almost impossible" I think the skill needed to attack Target the w
107 jelliesR : I guess that the satellite gets sent data for optimising reception given the position of the plane, and either/or track, north or south, would send t
108 chaseus1 : Maybe that makes the Southern route more viable....
109 tomlee : It probably crashed into the water somewhere around there as it is quite possible the last satcom keep alive message was the literal last message bef
110 tim73 : I assume, they got signal to noise level numbers from pings, then figured out the satellite position and drew a coverage map. Then found out two paths
111 Enobar : Ok, so I have a theory and I rather hope its easily de-bunked because I think its terrifying. I will admit straight up that its unlikely, but I am won
112 Starlionblue : I checked the figures. Both Airbus and Boeing state that the difference between Max Range Cruise and Long Range Cruise is an increased fuel burn of 1%
113 slinky09 : Yes, let's say you wanted to avoid Indian ATC, that would mean potentially flying over Myanmar, Bangladseh, Nepal, even Tibet, to some of the break a
114 nm2582 : I'm not buying the water crash stories anymore. It's clear that far too much effort/investment was put into MH370 to just crash it into the ocean. The
115 koruman : Two things. Firstly, 99.9% of hijackings throughout history did not involve the hijackers flying the airplane, but rather forcing the flight crew to d
116 k83713 : Same here, southern route makes more sense if we discard serious cover-ups. Also there were a lot of claims that authorities believe the plane has cr
117 tomlee : To jump an airgap (physical security measure) they would have to bridge it physically. From what I understand about the 777 flight control system the
118 nm2582 : And given the rumors about the cargo escaping inspection, I tend to think it was the cargo. The plane isn't particularly special. Yes it has long ran
119 trex8 : MH 777 suddenly pitching up several thousand feet, dropping from attempt at recovery by pilot and then climbing several thousand again while speed flu
120 nm2582 : The press conference didn't confirm any of this, so it's possible that it never happened. Many of the stories to leak have eventually been proven fal
121 Post contains links and images nm2582 : For those not following the "flyingwithfish" twitter feed (twitter.com/flyingwithfish...some really interesting stuff being posted up. Here is his gue
122 slinky09 : And additionally the PM said that the NTSB, FAA and AAIB from the UK, plus their own authorities, analysed the available data independently and presu
123 PlanesNTrains : Without any communication? And then went on to fly for hours? Maybe I'm missing something? -Dave
124 PHX Flyer : What type of cargo would be worth the lives of over 230 people? This doesn't make sense to me.
125 Dalavia : If correct, this might be truly intriguing. Flying with Fish is suggesting Esfahan as the destination. I visited Esfahan a couple of years ago. For t
126 CaliAtenza : he also says his "sources" know how the plane could get across India. How it could get across Pakistan and THEN Afghanistan which is bristling with U
127 slinky09 : Whoever he is, he's not been far off with he tweets so far, and mentions Esfahan airport in Pakistan ...
128 fn1001 : Maybe there are already negociatitions between the kidnappers and the chinese and malay government. This would includ some very positve news, the pass
129 nm2582 : I suppose that depends on how much of a conspiracy theory you're willing to believe, and how much the people involved value human life, and how much
130 Post contains links JimJupiter : Reports...? http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/mis...-false-reports-safe-landing-n48081
131 slinky09 : If the plane was hijacked, then while we've been wondering about the reason for that, such as cargo, people, to use as a weapon, we haven't surmised
132 PlanesNTrains : ....crap.... On a sidenote, those two Iranians traveling on stolen passports either cleverly pulled off an incredible heist or were the two unluckies
133 EVAAIRBR076 : Well and what about the last signal that was picked up 1600km before the australian westcoast? That is a complete different search area. It get strang
134 koruman : If a flight between two peaceful countries without political unrest goes missing, then it is reasonable to consider hijacking for political reasons to
135 chaseus1 : I think each signal had a corresponding north and south possibility that would work with the formulas to determine location.
136 LandSweetLand : If they're going to set off a nuke, then I'd expect the death toll to be well above that anyway, and there are plenty of upcoming chances this year.
137 345tas : Iran doesn't have just one nuclear facility, it has many across the country. One of them is Natanz, located about half an hour's/hour's drive from Is
138 cc2314 : Has anyone given much thought to the air asia ceo tweet that stated the aircraft landed in naning china?
139 k83713 : This all comes out to be a very, very big story. The amount of organization to make it look so messing and confusing, but still so few traces are left
140 dampfnudel : I'm going to sleep now and I wonder what the news will be when I wake up. It's really getting crazy.
141 BackSeater : Probable explanation of the two corridors. It appears they have two positioning solutions: one in the northern hemisphere and one in the southern hemi
142 Finn350 : Given this being #1 world news for over a week, I find it highly unlikely that the plane landing in China or any else state could be kept secret. The
143 JimJupiter : He probably just tweeted along with chinese "social media" rumors.
144 ivanoruvan : Guys, Guys, Guys.... Let's forget technology for the moment. Obviously it hasn't helped so far. Let's turn the attention to people. If the latest deve
145 BA777 : It would be interesting to know the final fuel load, there would be a legal minimum as we know and if they took significantly more that could be a clu
146 MillwallSean : Well its great if the plane flew to Iran. is there any place on earth with so much satellite resources focused on itself as Iran? And if its close to
147 Post contains links COOEE : Dear Forum Has anyone considered flight MH-370 suffered the same fate as Cypriot Helios Airways flight 522 or the golfer Payne Stewart's Lear 35. MH-3
148 koruman : See 115 and 134 above. It is now a highly significant incident in this matter.
149 chaseus1 : Reference the measuring of the pings....I believe it is simple triangulation in getting opposite locations. The plane is one point, the satellite a se
150 k83713 : I'm sure we know a tiny portion of what's really going on now in the field of specialized services. Since it's confirmed hijack (as a major and most
151 SCQ83 : The 8:11 AM means that the plane likely ran out of fuel and crashed. So according to the Malaysian government, there are two likely scenarios. Crash o
152 slinky09 : Rereading the FlyingwithFish tweets, a few stand out, such as: "A Terrorist wants to spread terror and get credit. A cartel wants whatever it wants &a
153 flood : Personally, that strikes me as being a little "out there" - but I guess nothing can really surprise me anymore. That said, I do lend credence to the
154 Post contains images Airbus747 : Would a well-prepared tactically minded hijacker (regardless of whether a member of the flight crew or not) who wanted to confuse those looking for hi
155 k83713 : Agree, Iran version would be too simple and thick smelling to be truth, esp. if the flight ends just around the corner of nuclear facility. Also ther
156 wingz : I guess tomlee's scenario applies to the case of the aircraft flying for the 5 hours or so of SATCOM pings. Here's an alternative idea (but need some
157 Starlionblue : Decompression and pilot incapacitation has been considered many times in these threads. To answer your questions, yes there are alarms. They don't tr
158 Airbus747 : Sorry if I didn't follow, but who is FlyingWithFish? Someone from A-net?
159 jeta380 : They said in the media briefing the plane could have gone on two different flight routes. 1. It was last spotted under Kazakhstan and 2. It was on rou
160 Post contains links LandSweetLand : Some guy on twitter. https://twitter.com/flyingwithfish
161 ivanoruvan : By the way, if they don't want to over-fuel because it could arouse suspicions, then they are very clear they could use the allowed fuel limit without
162 k83713 : Or maybe that "anyone knowing" does not have an intention to let it know further.
163 tomlee : It is highly doubtful that if the plane crashed and broke up that the satcom modem box and the antenna would be still in one continuous piece with wo
164 Finn350 : As discussed a few thousand posts ago, if the hijacker decompresses the cabin for a half an hour or so, he effectively incapacitates (kills) everyone
165 Post contains links LandSweetLand : Well X-Plane (I'd guess they used this as their sim software) looks to allow fuel limits and can have the 777 as the vessel flown. In fact, there's e
166 Post contains links slinky09 : For those who want to read the PM's full statement, it is here: http://www.malaysiakini.com/news/257..._source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
167 Post contains links flood : Captain's home now being searched: "KUALA LUMPUR (REUTERS) - Police began searching the home of the pilot of the missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH37
168 Post contains links Starlionblue : Of course. But you really wouldn't need a sim. Paper and pencil or there are a number of apps. Many pilots would have such apps on their airline-issu
169 AngMoh : Based on everything, the only thing which makes sense to me is suicide with the purpose of collecting life insurance. Someone his big problems and dec
170 Piliage : Given the insane nature of this story, this puts James Bond type scenarios well in play. Given the 7 hour additional flight (or should I say broadcast
171 jeta380 : Its's clear they wouldn't want anyone to know about it. Forget the play on words. It's time to get educated opinions on where you could land a 777 in
172 k83713 : I hardly can imagine Somali pirate dealing with FMC and knowing radar coverage, also able to stop all communications devices on board. Other pictures
173 tomlee : One problem with that theory is that if a few people had a phones on when they fly over land it could automatically connect with the network to regis
174 KIAS : I think this severely misinterprets the mindset of a) aviators and b) suicidal individuals. The talk of the plane reaching FL450 does not add up. ~29
175 rampart : That's not what he said. He said that the search was being extended to two corridors: Thailand to Kazakhstan, or Indonesia to the South Indian Ocean.
176 DALFA : How many hours do the CVR and FDR actually record? Anyhow, someone knowing how to switch off the transponder and ACARS will most likely also have swit
177 oly720man : Except, now with all the non-standard behaviour of the flight, who would pay up? And the pilot(s) would know that anything odd would raise suspicions
178 bayareapilot : It's possible they were tankering fuel. MH probably gets better fuel pricing at their KUL hub than at an outstation like PEK.
179 chaseus1 : My big question is the PAX and phones also. In an intentional depressurization, someone would gasp for air before others, and someone would make a cal
180 Piliage : k83713: Agree on all counts. But given the probable is now ruled out, what if they paid BIG MONEY to the co-pilot or pilot as part of a plot? Again, w
181 k83713 : As Malaysian PM said, the ambassodors of possible countries are to negotiate on that. But anyway, I feel it's insane to suspect any official airfield
182 jeta380 : Thanks for your input. There is a number of scenarios that could have made MH-370 disappear. But it's important, no matter how crazy it might sound,
183 SCQ83 : I can't believe it took them one week to do this. This guy had a flight simulator at home!
184 KIAS : Yet the report is ACARS was disabled several minutes prior to the transponder. Doesn't sit right that someone went to the E/E bay, sabotaged the AIMS
185 slinky09 : Sky news just showed a reporter in KL holding up a print out of the possible tracks recorded by the Inmarsat satellite ... I've searched but can''t f
186 KIAS : This info was known on day 1. A pilot owning a copy of flight simulator is not news, nor any indication of villainy.
187 k83713 : I really hope for signals from Indian ocean not to fade out before the battery is dead. I don't want to believe the plane is in the land and no one f
188 Post contains links PlanesNTrains : Well, one train of thought being put out apparently is that it was flown to Iran as part of an arms smuggling run, with the plane being the medium (c
189 BackSeater : Sorry, just wanted to correct my previous post, of course I meant "millisecond" not "microsecond"
190 nm2582 : To address the questions of how the plane could fly so far into the northern corridor without being detected...here is a thought. I know that it's the
191 Post contains links and images flood : I bumped into it on twitter and was just about to ask if someone knew the source. Here it is: via http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BiwRv2yCUAAbJYZ.jpg:larg
192 a/c dxer : Or shorting Malaysia Airlines stock. Bet those records have been or will be checked.
193 tomlee : Turning off the transponder last is a bit crazy and knowing how to turn off the ACARS but not the Sat modem is even more non-nonsensical. Add on the
194 VC315 : Calm in what ways? China has been very active and vocal in this incident...Navy vessels, air force, satellites, sending officials to Malaysia, urging
195 YYZatcboy : As one of the two head moderators on the X-Plane.org website, I find that joke rather in poor taste and not funny at all.
196 KIAS : What could possibly be smuggled in a stolen 777 to Iran which Iran could not otherwise acquire on its own? Iran Air is the flag carrier. They have 74
197 tomlee : Oh that is not good at all if inmarsat is using the global beam and signal math to figure out where it might be it will be very rough (so rough that
198 KIAS : Totally agree. I wouldn't be surprised if half of "what we know" is incorrect. If I had to speculate I'd still lean towards a chain of electrical/mec
199 slinky09 : Thanks, I just found it but you got there!
200 Finn350 : Turning off ACARS first makes sense, as it will take a considerable time and analysis that others discover it. Turning off the trandponder on the oth
201 k83713 : I would imagine that even in this possible hijack scenario everything happened not based on a step-by-step manual or a novel. Taking into account all
202 jeta380 : Awesome theory. It has substance to it. Thanks. International security/intelligence organisations will be working on this round the clock as well. I
203 tomlee : That is a bit of a understatement to say the least. If it did happen it would be a "game changer" and "stuff" would happen. So much "stuff" would hap
204 PlanesNTrains : Sigh. Preposterous or not, it wasn't my idea. Nonetheless, I'll play. Perhaps "they" know that CIA etc would be all over IranAir flights, particularl
205 rampart : I agree. But you said, or indicated someone had said, that it was last spotted under Kazakhstan. It was not, as far as I've heard in the media and pr
206 slinky09 : No idea but, what if there was a shipment of lithium batteries in the hold, are such batteries banned as part of sanctions against Iran, are they nee
207 jeta380 : Understandable that you are offended, but it's still a viable option. Don't you think?
208 chaseus1 : I apologize for the Sim club comment. I'm a fan of Sims myself, and do not think the pilot is involved at all. I'd remove comment if I could
209 tomlee : Hijack is possible with the given info but the info still seems too inaccurate/contradictory/confusing to be "conclusive" as a number of news reports
210 Post contains images JimJupiter : Wow. And if we keep in mind that the Malaysian military cannot be 100% sure that their radar readings actually belong to MH370, it still can be in th
211 k83713 : Sounds technically possible, but what about TCAS system on KL flight? Any indications of other plane flying close? No communications to ATC from KL83
212 Post contains links fullflaps : I don't know if it had been posted yet, as the threads are getting seriously longer every minute, (every time I come back to the computer there are li
213 Dalavia : No, Esfahan is in Iran. Please see my earlier posting.
214 KIAS : You'd have to open up the main deck access panel and climb down to the E/E bay. Versus turning a knob to STBY on the stand panel while on the flight
215 Piliage : I giggled...
216 PlanesNTrains : I believe it was stated in another thread that putting the transponder into STBY disables TCAS, or at least makes that plane not show up on another p
217 nm2582 : TCAS is an active transponder system. It requires both aircraft to be equipped and functional. If MH370 had TCAS off, then they could quite literally
218 CaliAtenza : Just saw this on Reddit: Jonah Fisher ‏@JonahFisher 37m Being briefed by Malaysia officials they believe most likely location for MH370 is on land s
219 BoeingVista : I can see this as a scenario, we tend to forget that china extends a long way west and the plane was heading in the general direction of the Uligher
220 rlwynn : I do not see how that would be a joke at all. I see that as a very real possibility. Why would it not be?[Edited 2014-03-15 02:19:52]
221 pvjin : Anyone else thought about what could have made whoever hijacked the aircraft to choose this particular flight? 29th November 2013 LAM flight 470 gets
222 tomlee : That is the same reason why I think it is backwards. The ACARS data takes time to notice it stopping (if at all there is good reason to think that th
223 Starlionblue : Lots of pilots (and non-pilots) do. Without any other leads, that's not a very strong indication of anything. Needs access to E/E bay. Use the "Sugge
224 Post contains links and images flood : But the southern route would be more likely if, for example, the scenario involves pilot suicide or the hijacker's destination was Australia (with ea
225 chaseus1 : I meant it as a lighthearted moment, and I completely apologize. I own up to it.
226 Accidentally : Holy cow. There has been some incredible things said in these threads, but this is pretty high up on the ridiculous scale. I hope it's sarcasm I'm mi
227 k83713 : Then sorry, my mind is out of options to think about anything better organized than that. It's such a breath-taking movie scenario. You would take al
228 tomlee : You can always find patterns in numbers not to mention with the number of flights and airlines would make similar numbers easy to find. With enough t
229 chaseus1 : In no way does having a flight simulator make you a suspect or a criminal. I love simulators. But hijackers have used them in the past. That in no way
230 pvjin : Well even without number rearranging there's still clear link between the Mozambique Airlines 470 & MH370. Someone influenced by the LAM470 could
231 rlwynn : I see this statement as just as incredible as you find the FS staement. When something this big and crazy happens everthing can be the number one fac
232 KPDX : I wouldn't worry about it. With all due respect, the political correctness and being "offended" has gone way overboard these days, IMO. Lightening up
233 PlanesNTrains : While I don't think the sim proves anything, let's just play devil's advocate: 1. You MUST examine all possibilities in this scenario. The flight sim
234 slinky09 : Which is precisely the border of the Uyghur region of China, an area not unknown for its violent wish for separatism. So many theories ... I have a f
235 PlanesNTrains : Frankly, I find more credence in a variety of other scenarios than I do a number's based motivation. Just my humble opinion. -Dave
236 chaseus1 : I'm still thinking maybe the passengers were exposed to something in the air, and the hijacker or hijackers had oxygen, and started enacting whatever
237 Post contains links tomlee : I find it more ironic that the video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qykj3...G-p4&list=UUm6f3-wcpgLhxUR_ONPfoJA is titled "how to tune your airco
238 PlanesNTrains : Well, if they treat it anything like they treat their HSR, they probably just buried it. -Dave
239 k83713 : I believe all pilots are under close observation of security departments taking into account general common sense and also recent events with suicides
240 PlanesNTrains : More than likely true. -Dave
241 giblets : If it went North there may well be some very red faces! Almost the entire red line is over China. With Xinjiang separatists being increasingly violent
242 Post contains links AirCalSNA : New York Times reporting that Malaysian Prime Minister says plane was deliberately diverted: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/16/wo...ysia-airlines-flig
243 YYZatcboy : A very large number of the people on that forum are friends/acquaintances of mine. Yes I take it personally, and no I don't mean to villify chaseus1
244 VC315 : Remind me what's the purpose of hijacking the plane and fly it back to the Western China (assumingly XinJiang where the Uyghurs live)? If this is an
245 tomlee : Or maybe there was a carbon monoxide + toxic fire and people + crew behaved erratically until they died. If the oxygen system failed or ran out (it i
246 ivanoruvan : @VC315: What I mean is that China is doing only what any small nation would do too. Their actions do not justify the power behind. I was surprised tha
247 Post contains links and images nm2582 : As additional info for my post (reply 190 or therabouts), this image is the flight path of KLM 836 which I'm pondering that MH370 could have closely f
248 chaseus1 : I would think if they did anything, they shot it down as it entered their airspace.... I just don't think it went that way, given that other countrie
249 PlanesNTrains : And turned off the transponder? And zig-zagged around like they apparently did? Maybe, but it seems unlikely to me personally. Of course, this entire
250 pvjin : So what if he got it to Iran, and even managed to land it? The Iranian authorities would have arrested the hijacker & informed rest of the world
251 Starlionblue : Umm, no... There is no NSA type surveillance from the company. And we talked about that a while ago. A simple text search would have told you that.
252 tomlee : Why do you believe the numbers are significant over the sequence of events which don't match up why hide the fact with the transponder and mess aroun
253 Piliage : If that i Kyrgyzstan is certainly one of the most corrupt countries on earth, but Manas is a 'big' US military base. Plus, with the boarders between C
254 Post contains links VC315 : China did not officially retract it, Malaysia did. and there's even a BBC article on it - basically saying Malaysia denied it, but Chinese state TV s
255 chaseus1 : I think in a fire the crew would have declared a mayday... I think the pilot was attacked as part of a takeover. If the fire was that bad, the plane w
256 pvjin : Maybe the hijacker didn't want to be an exact copycat, maybe he rather mixed the ET hijack (where the aircraft flew for hours before landing) and the
257 k83713 : The theory is viable but though a bit too spectacular. How would MH glue to KL at the right moment? It would require some circling to wait for KL pla
258 tomlee : Technically a company can do more than NSA type surveillance depending on local laws even in the US I think if your on the job using company equipmen
259 PlanesNTrains : Uh, not if it was Iran that wanted what was on the stinking 777. -Dave
260 pvjin : I can't imagine anything so valuable that it would make Iran hijack an airliner. North Korea could do something like that, not Iran.
261 CaliAtenza : i have real doubts about this too now, but its from a BBC guy...i mean why would he risk his reputation on flimsy info/false info..??
262 tomlee : Wait why would an actually suicidal person care about how they die, why would they want to make it so hard to figure out and go through so much effor
263 tomlee : The limits of the satcom data position are probably based on using the radar track plus fuel range plus a bit of a guess on where it might be going.
264 k83713 : North Korea taking plane with so many Chinese citizens aboard? I don't think it's in line with their economical survival model of threats ending with
265 sierra3tango : One thought ..... Seem to recall that a week ago there were reports from the families / friends in Beijing that they had rung PAX and there were 'ring
266 nm2582 : They would have quite a long time over the Bay of Bengal to meet up - it doesn't have to be a precise "right moment". They would have had over an hou
267 Luxair : -speculation open- Just imagine that they flew the aircraft somewhere to a remote airport but in vicinity of MH's current used airways to Europe. Cou
268 tomlee : I believe it was covered before that international call routing has to make up the ring tone even if the endpoint isn't reachable as it takes some ti
269 Post contains links and images Starlionblue : I understand it is hard to look through every post in 25 threads, but a simple "ctrl-F" search of the last few would have given you the answer.
270 slinky09 : Unless it was a diversionary tactic to skew attention away from something else? Is that really plausible, wouldn't the anti-collision programmes on t
271 k83713 : MH is white body, quite hard to hide it in the dark completely if KL was catching up and pilots saw nothing. Also, is it possible to know if Moon was
272 PlanesNTrains : As said up-thread, if the transponder/TCAS were turned off on the MH 777, KLM would never know they were there. Their TCAS would show nothing. -Dave
273 nm2582 : Yes, see reply 217, TCAS alerts requires TCAS transponders to be working on both aircraft. If TCAS was disabled on MH370, then KLM would not have rec
274 Post contains images JimJupiter : Or just read the very first post that says "summary". I'll go follow the Guardian from now on. There's way too much conspiracy drivel clogging this s
275 AR385 : No, life insurance for pilots does not work that way. Shame?
276 Luxair : Is that really plausible, wouldn't the anti-collision programmes on the KLM airliner alert? That is a good question, maybe some one familiar with can
277 PlanesNTrains : But would they even be looking out the window? I'm not a pilot, but I get the impression that they don't spend their time gazing out the window looki
278 slinky09 : Of course, thanks for correcting me. Has anyone else seen comments (on Twitter at least) that some of the bins in the hold were not screened?
279 zelda : A long time lurker, but this is my first post here on a-net. I have been following the story of MH370 since the plane dissappeared, and find it more a
280 Piliage : I know, and we are really getting into an area that Frank Zappa termed 'mumbo pocus' as that is where the evidence takes it. These are no longer cons
281 BoeingVista : To have a hostage situation and invite the worlds press to listen to their grievences against China, gaining rolling 24 hour news coverage, rather th
282 nm2582 : The moon set at 12:40am Malaysian time. The only light was starlight. Were MH370 1000ft higher or lower, and a few miles laterally off the establishe
283 PlanesNTrains : Please see: -Dave
284 ComeAndGo : That's a vast area. In other words they're not sure which way the plane flew. Indonesia or Kazakhstan ? And it flew through known waypoints ? It's mo
285 Luxair : Oepsss didn't spotted this post but it answers my question, thanks. Indeed this makes sense! So theoretically they could hide just under another plan
286 wukka : Haven't been around these forums for a long time, but this is a wildly intriguing incident. Curious question. Wondered the same. Don't buy that for a
287 Post contains images Piliage : ...and nothing says sober intelligent well-reasoned logic like a Guardian blog...
288 k83713 : Fair enough, no big reason to stare out, except that at 2:15 a.m. the news could already be out of the missing MH and KL crew could be notified. So t
289 Razza74 : And the story gets more and more interesting as time goes on . . . An interesting and quite plausible thought that MH370 "piggybacked" KLM 836 across
290 PlanesNTrains : Well, it certainly is an intriguing thought. -Dave
291 VC315 : Even if KL pilots saw it, they might not be alarmed. Firstly, they're at different FLs, and no TCAS warning. Secondly, they wouldn't know anything ab
292 pvjin : I'm quite sure your average suicidal person wouldn't take +200 lives with him but would rather jump from a roof or something. I think pilot suicide i
293 tomlee : Trying to make a plane disappear completely to hide shame would require a lot of planning and effort when just disappearing from transponder tracking
294 tomlee : Suicide cases don't follow this typical pattern so while it is a possibility I don't think the flight numbers or previous incidents are related. I'm
295 k83713 : Ok, thanks for checking that. Any possibility to track the signal change/noise in case of shadow following? I mean you can hide the signal but it all
296 wukka : Hey now! That blog quoted "The Onion". The epitome of well-reasoned logic. That said, I did learn about the possibility of an uncontrolled ascent to
297 VC315 : I don't think hijack a civil aviation plane with over 200 civilians onboard under the scrutiny of the worlds press would help them to express their g
298 pvjin : Well FDR could still tell something. If you wanted to avoid shame flying far towards Indian Ocean & then crashing it somewhere very deep would pr
299 nm2582 : This is outside my area of expertise, so I probably shouldn't even speculate. But I would agree that there are many factors, including quality and ca
300 Post contains links Piliage : There is only one small problem with landing a hijacked triple 7 at Diego Garcia... http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/images/b2diegogarciags_4.jpg Y
301 gr325 : Imagine that, the perfect plot to hijack and just missed this tiny bit of detail on Diego Garcia
302 tomlee : No it would be difficult to conclude anything if there wasn't a CVR. How would anyone know who was at the controls it would be difficult to tell for
303 Post contains links Piliage : I picture the final scene of the Blues Brothers... http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_bBDnaiOY84.../Blues%20Brothers%20-%20arrest.JPG
304 wukka : What, exactly, is "ordinary"? Hijack, there are demands to be met. Suicide, you plant into the dirt. There is nothing "ordinary" about this situation
305 MartynS : Surely there are equivalent plots for each of the previous "pings" that were received by inmarsat. For each one, there will be some parts of the curv
306 wukka : Beautiful! However the options are limited at this point. You can go all "conspiracy theory", or you can go with "practical outcome". Seems at this p
307 capri : how about an outside force remote controlling the aircraft and using it as a test bed and crew were fighting eratic autopilot the reason of altitude b
308 YoungMans : Not all that long ago, the Iranians forced down an unmanned US aircraft (i.e. a drone); this was despite the self-destruct technologies and whatever e
309 Post contains links SA7700 : Due to length this thread will be locked for further contributions. All posts added after the thread lock will be removed for housekeeping purposes on
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