Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Sabena To MIA  
User currently offlineNick_aga From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (15 years 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1095 times:


As a result of the new cooperation between Swissair/Sabena and American Airlines, Sabena will, next summer launch its first ever service to Miami, FL.

Sabena flight 529 will leave Brussels at 3.15 p.m. local time and arrive at Miami International at 7.45 p.m. local time.

Eastbound service SN 530 will leave Miami at 9.45 p.m. and arrive Brussels at 12.45 p.m. the following day.

This flight, operated in Sabena's newest A330-200 twin jet, will operate effectively may 14, 2000 daily except on mondays and wednesdays, and from june 26 on the service will become daily.

Sabena is expected to open a service to American's Dallas-Fort Worth hub as well, and will probably close down its Atlanta and Cincinnati stations.

Nick


24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAFa340-300E From France, joined May 1999, 2084 posts, RR: 26
Reply 1, posted (15 years 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 869 times:

Hello,

That's interesting they'll operated flights to DFW.

Do you know any date of starting or aircraft type please ?

Best regards,
Alain Mengus


User currently offlineA330 From Belgium, joined May 1999, 649 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (15 years 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 866 times:

Nothing has been decided yet, Sabena is still negociating and evaluating.
For the moment, we will not close down the CVG route which is very profitable, and a flight to DFW with the A340 is certainly going to happen.
The problem with MIA is that SN has not sufficient equipment to fly the route, yet, but SN is looking for additional Airbusses (A330.200's).
Also, SN will start flying to Bejing fromthe summer season onwards with A340.

Nick_aga, where did you get this info, as nothing has been decided yet!
contact me, are you also a Sabenien? which department?

Tino

Sabena, flying from the heart of Europe



Shiek!
User currently offlineNick_aga From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (15 years 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 846 times:


If you are a Sabenien, please check your PARS system, as the Miami flight is already programmed. I got my information from your president and three of your vice presidents (Mrs Burie, Mr Fraser and Mr De Swert), which I know very well, as I am a Circle Club Member of your frequent flyer program, and I am professionally engaged in the industry as a consultant.

Nick

nick_aga@hotmail.com


User currently offlineA330 From Belgium, joined May 1999, 649 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (15 years 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 847 times:

Indeed, I know (my father is also top management) but they haven't any slots to fly the route, Dallas is OK, but they need to have slots before SN529 becomes a reality, and that might be another problem, with BRU slots getting very difficult to obtain. (my father is Vice-President IATA tech.dep. and head of Schedule coordination).
Anyways, the route will be very succesfull thanks to the connection possibilities to S.America and Latin America with American Airlines.

Thank you for flying with Sabena so often, by the way, did you go to the Sabena Proms concert? great show...



Shiek!
User currently offlineNick_aga From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (15 years 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 851 times:


I fly over 300.000 miles a year on SN. Came back from Washington yesterday, will go to London City tonight, back tomorrow, and on thursday on SN545 to ATL and connecting to Omaha, Nebraska.

It is obvious that the SN routes to Cincinnati, OH and Atlanta, GA, no matter how profitable they have been, have no future as the code-sharing with DL will stop. I think the discontinuation of CVG in particular is a sad thing, as it is a very nice and quick hub. I still remember flying the inaugural flight on may 15, 1997, and I have flown SN543/544 many times ever since.

It is very obvious to me that neither one of the three proposed hubs (ORD, DFW and MIA) will be as smooth as for instance CVG, but we'll have to deal with it. JFK has only some major transcontinental connections on AA, as has EWR. Also BOS has quite some connections on American. EWR is very nice for me, as it has the only belgian station manager in North America, who I know very well.

On the other hand, I have to admit that the service on American is a wee bit better that on Delta. I flew BRU-EWR-LAX-JFK-BRU ten days ago, and I was very pleased with American's service, although it is not what it used to be 5 years ago.

While in Madras for the inaugural flight two weeks ago, the Circle Club board has decided to ask Sabena to inform, as a mid-term option, about the possible opening of a Raleigh-Durham flight, which is a small AA hub- comparable to Delta's CVG hub.

Talking about possible Asian expansion, Paul Reutlinger has informed us in Madras that this is a top priority for Sabena, and that some destination is China will be opened. At this time, I am not aware of which city this will be. I know that, besides Bejing, also Canton (Guangzhou) is an option. I personally think that they should rather consider Hong Kong as this is the biggest direct O/D gap from BRU.

Meanwhile, loadfactors for the new Madras/Chennai flight are very good, and SN is already talking about adding frequencies there, as they do for an extra Narita slot.

Nick

nick_aga@hotmail.com


User currently offlineA330 From Belgium, joined May 1999, 649 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (15 years 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 840 times:

Indeed, CVG is a fantastic airport.
Hong Kong would be good to fly to, but the landing fees are so high and competition enormous, so Canton would, in my opinion, be better suited, because Sabena would be virtually the only intercontinental carrier there.SN could of course code-share with CX like Swissair...
I've found AA's domestic service in First lacking in service, but so is Delta (sometimes very rude staff).
Chennai load factors are great, but SN does have limitations in frequency: a shortage of planes and crews, plus the Indian government who only gave us 3 slots to fly... But we'll see and hope!
Oh yes, I hope to see Sabena colours again in South America, last year, there wereplans to do a Brussels - Sao Paulo - Buenos Aires flight, but haven't heard anything from my dad (he doesn't tell me a lot) since they stopped MD11 service (and VASP is a disgrace).

Tino



Shiek!
User currently offlineJr From United States of America, joined May 1999, 970 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (15 years 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 831 times:

How is Sabena doing on the MAA run - How are the load factors and how many times a week (is it 3) do they fly there? Also, do you have the flight numbers and times of the MAA flights - Thanks in advance for any info.


I've flown on 9V-SPK.
User currently offlineA330 From Belgium, joined May 1999, 649 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (15 years 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 825 times:

Flights are doing very well, with load factors well over 70% for most flights.
Sabena is currently flying on Tuesday, thursday and saturday.
SN 225 leaves BRU at 10.10 and arrives in MAA at 00.30
SN 226 leaves MAA at 02.30 and arrives in BRU at 08.30 (new arrival time instead of 8.50 mentioned in the timetable, flash info)

Tino



Shiek!
User currently offlineJr From United States of America, joined May 1999, 970 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (15 years 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 826 times:

Thanks for the info. They fly the A330 into MAA don't they. Can't wait to see Sabena and AF start service into DFW. Any more news on Sabena's possible joining of Oneworld.


I've flown on 9V-SPK.
User currently offlineAvion From Bouvet Island, joined May 1999, 2205 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (15 years 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 823 times:

Will Swissair also start flights to DFW? If swissair joins oneworld sabena will also.

User currently offlineAvion From Bouvet Island, joined May 1999, 2205 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (15 years 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 823 times:

Will Swissair also start flights to DFW? If swissair joins oneworld sabena will also.

User currently offlineA330 From Belgium, joined May 1999, 649 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (15 years 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 824 times:

Sabena/Swissair are maintaining the Qualiflier Group, and LOT is joining in January. TAP unlike some rumours is not leaving in the near future (Nick, who told you that? Hilde Burie, Hugh Fraser,Eric Follet?)
Today, SN/SR have the deepest alliance in the industry.
Swissair/Sabena are keeping friends though with BA just in case the Qualiflier Group does die. Then, indeed, will SN/SR join Oneworld, which will complement nicely!

Tino



Shiek!
User currently offlineAFa340-300E From France, joined May 1999, 2084 posts, RR: 26
Reply 13, posted (15 years 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 831 times:

Hello,

I think Swissair should fly to DFW as well. They're bigger than Sabena and there's no reason they don't fly there.

Anyway there's gonna be some increased competition on routes to Europe, with AA flights (all 767s if I'm not wrong), British Airways (777-200ER), Lufthansa (A340-300) and soon Air France (A340-300), Sabena (A340-200 or -300) and Swissair (MD-11 or A330 ??).

AF that is strongly rumored to launch flights for next summer will have to be quick if it wants them to be succesful.

Best regards,
Alain Mengus


User currently offlineA330 From Belgium, joined May 1999, 649 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (15 years 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 826 times:

AF will have to be careful, indeed, DFW isn't a mayor hub for Delta, but Sabena/Swissair have great connection possibilities through AA!
AF should focus on CVG and Portland instead, 2 great gateways...

By the way, Sabena is now nearing the size of Swissair, and is bigger inside Europe.

Tino



Shiek!
User currently offlineAvion From Bouvet Island, joined May 1999, 2205 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (15 years 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 820 times:

Don't forget that sabena is a part of swissair and swissair turned sabena around. They payed very much to sabena.


Avion


User currently offlineAFa340-300E From France, joined May 1999, 2084 posts, RR: 26
Reply 16, posted (15 years 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 820 times:

Hello,

AF will have exaclty the same condition than Lufthansa. Yet I think they should be succesful. Yet SN and SR should be stronger on that route.
They'll open CVG next summer with B767-300ER

Best regards,
Alain Mengus


User currently offlineLear777 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 290 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (15 years 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 820 times:

A while back Swissair was heavily interested in starting service to Houston IAH. Are any of you aware if this is still a likely possibility?

Any chance of Sabena, etc to IAH, just out of curiousity?

Thanks
Brian



Go Astros!
User currently offlineBoeing747_600 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 1295 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (15 years 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 820 times:

Brian,
I think the likelihood of SR and SN coming to IAH will probably hinge on their first signing some sort of codesharing arrangement with CO and perhaps a reciprocal opening of the BRU and ZRH/GVA routes to CO out of IAH. I'm not even sure that they currently serve any of these cities out of EWR, leave alone IAH.

And even then, the possibility is only remote - AZ and Czech airlines chose to codeshare rather than fly into IAH. Also, I dont know what the current "Open-Skies" picture looks like, but if CO expresses an interest in serving FMC, MXP and/or PRG, from IAH, then odds are that the corresponding European carriers will want their fair slice of the pie.

In any case, I hope more European carriers chose IAH over DFW. Houston, while not the prettiest city in the world, is definitely more cosmopolitan than Dallas. Dallas is the result of taking a shopping mall and stretching it out to the size of a metropolis.

But then again, I dont know if thats what motivates the average traveller!


User currently offlineJr From United States of America, joined May 1999, 970 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (15 years 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 815 times:

Just a side note - Houston is certainly more cosmopolitan than Dallas and is a nice city. However Dallas isnot just a mall stretched out big. The recent growth of traffic (especially to Europe) has a lot to do withthe growth of Dallas in the software and telecommunications fields. Tie ups with big European names like Ericsson, Nokia (both of whom have their US headquarters in the Dallas area) and many others have a significant impact on DFW. Just a thought - feel free to comment.


I've flown on 9V-SPK.
User currently offlineNick_aga From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (15 years 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 810 times:

OK, first about Sabena's and Swissair's North American network development. I think everyone agrees that, given the new code-share agreement with American airlines (also beyond-hub flights), both Sabena and Swissair will concentrate on flying into AA's key cities, e.g. DFW and ORD and MIA. American has minor hubs at BOS, JFK, LAX, RDU and SJU.

Furthermore, we should consider the fact that AA has currently only one operation at both Brussels and Zurich airports, e.g. a BRU-ORD, ZRH-ORD flight respectively. So, I think we can most likely expect AA te open at least one more own flight to each of those destinations. Remember that, for BRU, AA used to have 3 daily flights (ORD, JFK and DFW) not so long ago.

Talking about the Brussels operation, I still presume that both ATL and CVG will be ckosed by Sabena, although they maybe want to try to keep CVG open (SN543 BRUCVG will then be the flight to catch, as I expect very low load factors). As the code share on Delta's JFK flight will discontinue, I expect AA to reopen its BRUJFK flight using probably the B767-300ER. ORD is no problem, with two daily flights (SN539-540 will become daily). Furthermore, SN will open a MIA flight (as mentionned before), which leaves us with DFW, which could be operated by either SN or AA. Finally, I'd like to mention that the US West Coast is still a big gap in SN's network. Talking about this issue, Paul Reutlinger told me that they are aware of that. However, opening of a West coast operation (presuably LAX, as AA doesn't have too much at SFO) is not a top priority.

Situation at Zurich is somewhat different. As Swissair has already a MIA operation since september 15, I expect this operation to go daily. Also, ORD is no problem with two daily flights (one SR, one AA). Codeshare on DL operations to ATL and CVG will discontinue, and I expect SR also to close its very succesfull ATL operation SR120-121. Swissair will open a second Boston flight next summer, as a result of the replacement of the B747-300 by the A330-200 on the route. New York operations are plenty (3 times from ZRH, daily from GVA and BSL; 3 into JFK, 2 into EWR). So, I expect AA to open a DFW flight, or a JFK flight in which case SR ould have to close one of its operations and operate DFW using its own equipment. SR operations to LAX and SFO (apparantly very succesfull) will, of course continue.

OK, guys, this is my point of view, just mail your reactions, and, Tino, I changed my flight plans, I'm still in London, and I'll be flying to CPT tomorrow (via VIE, for one of the last times fly OS again), and flying back on SN on saturday (CPT-JNB-BRU), arriving there sunday, and monday onto ATL and OMA.

Nick


User currently offlineNick_aga From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (15 years 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 810 times:


Just for Tino... I really got the information about TAP possibly leaving the Qualiflyer Group from a very good source (that is within the Sabena Managment Committee).

Also, it is clear that Turkish isn't a very loyal and enthousiastic participant. They even don't code-share with SN on the BRU-IST route. I flew them a couple of weeks ago BRU-IST-DXB and back, and in the lounges in DXB and IST they didn't even know what a Qualiflyer Circle Member is! Nevertheless, they are very good on their longhaul flights, I once did IST-BKK-SIN on them.

Nick


User currently offlineAvion From Bouvet Island, joined May 1999, 2205 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (15 years 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 806 times:

Swissaire has said that it will not close down operations to ATL. Zurich is an important business point and ATL also many people want to fly from Zrh to Atl also without Delta Codeshare.

Avion

PS. NYC is served 5 times a day out of zurich.


User currently offlineA330 From Belgium, joined May 1999, 649 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (15 years 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 808 times:

Nick, you are right, Turkish never was very enthousiast on code sharing and having a tight tie with Qualiflier. I suspect them wanting to leave and join AF/DL, just as TAP. SA-Air group did however order only about a month ago new aircraft for TAP (A330's) and they still want a share in TAP. TAP had good ties with DL, and might leave for AF too, but I doubt they will... Anyway, TAP leaving will mean the end for Qualiflier, that, I guarantee, and then, BA will magically come in the picture. SR is already managed by 3 ex. BA people, and Sabena has one Scottish person (who still wears his killt from time to time!).



Shiek!
User currently offlineAvion From Bouvet Island, joined May 1999, 2205 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (15 years 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 806 times:

Do you mean that swissair will also join oneworld, then all qualiflyer airlines will join also.
What will swissair do with the european leisure group
(Balair, Air Europe, Sobelair, Volare, LTU) do which they own?


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
AA Lax To Mia posted Mon Dec 18 2006 22:41:15 by AAden
Venezuela's Avior Airlines Gets Green Light To MIA posted Thu Dec 7 2006 17:41:45 by Jimyvr
TAM Creates Premium Business Class To MIA/JFK posted Fri Sep 22 2006 01:44:53 by LipeGIG
Air Plus Comet To MIA, SCL, VVI, MEX posted Tue Sep 12 2006 04:27:44 by MAH4546
UA Mainline Return To MIA When? posted Wed Aug 30 2006 21:05:45 by MIAUA777
AeroSur's Inagural Takes Off To MIA posted Tue Aug 8 2006 06:08:41 by MAH4546
Several Passengers Sick On Flight Inbound To MIA posted Fri Jul 28 2006 18:21:21 by Tvnewsguy08
B6 To MIA Announcement July 21? posted Mon Jul 17 2006 00:21:27 by FLAIRPORT
AeroSur To MIA Confirmed; Flights Bookable posted Fri Jun 30 2006 10:25:04 by MAH4546
Jet Blue To MIA? posted Thu Jun 29 2006 16:25:37 by AlitaliaMD11