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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26  
User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 26
Posted (4 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 66425 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

Due to length part 25 was locked for further contributions. Please feel free to continue your discussion in part 26.

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 1 (by Longhornmaniac Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2 (by LipeGIG Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 3 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 7 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 8 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 11 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13 (by SA7700 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14 (by SA7700 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 16 (by SA7700 Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17 (by 777ER Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 20 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 23 (by SA7700 Mar 14 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24 (by SA7700 Mar 14 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25 (by SA7700 Mar 14 2014 in Civil Aviation)


**** SUMMARY PROVIDED BY MEMBER: rcair1 (Post 77 from thread 23) ****

First - synopsis
- The ship took off normally and headed on course to Beijing

- The last ACARS transmission was about 01:07 local. This does not mean ACARS was shut off - just that was the last transmission of ACARS data (See ACARS below)

- The last comms were a normal hand-off from Malaysia to Vietnam control at about 1:30 local

- It was a normal 'good night' on the Malaysian side, but Vietnam was not contacted.

- The aircraft dropped off secondary radar with no communication from the cockpit.

- There are some reports of a descent and turn based on primary radar. The descent was on the order of 3000 ft to 29,500.

- There are subsequent primary radar returns west over Malacca Straight.

- Since it is primarily radar - a reflection - we do not know that it is the accident a/c.

- We STILL do not know if it was a track (multiple returns) or a few points returns.

- We have 'reports' of SATCOM system pings for some hours after LOS (loss of signal)

- There is confusion (and argument) about the content of those pings and if those pings can provide location information (See SATCOM below)

- We have no ELT signal detected.


ACARS
- ACARS is an automated aircraft health management system that transmits a/c maintenance information to maintenance facilities like the airline, Boeing, Engine Manf, etc.

- ACARS is NOT a flight system - it is not needed for safe flight - it is a maintenance system

- ACARS is a subscription service and costs money. All indications are the MH370 was subscribed only to engine health monitoring and data from that is sent to Rolls Royce.

- ACARS communicates via VHF or SATCOM (and maybe Wifi at the gate). The communications channel depends on availability and is independent of the ACARS.


ACARS data from MH370
- MH370 sent 2 ACARS (or rather Engine Health) reports to Rolls Royce. The last was approximately 1:07

- Rolls Royce's would have expected only 1 more transmission at landing - that was never received.

- NOTE: this fact is in dispute - some reports say a transmission every 20 minutes or so was expected - however I believe that to be incorrect.

- The fact that the last ACARS was sent some time before the transponder signal was loss does not mean ACARS was turned off at that time. ACARS transmissions on this ship are not continuous


SATCOM
- SATCOM is a communications channel - Satellite Communications. It is a radio system that uses satellites to communicate various information.

- SATCOM is not ACARS - it is one of the channels ACARS can use.

- The last communication via SATCOM was the last ACARS message at 1:07


SATCOM Pings.
- The SATCOM system sends (or responds to) periodic 'pings' to/from the satellites. These 'pings' are a network communication that says "I am here." They are often called "keep alive" signals.

- SATCOM pings are not communicating a/c status, they are part of the communications channel.

- There are reports that SATCOM pings were heard for up to 4 or 5 hours into flight (or after LOS)

- NOTE: to those complaining it took to long to report this - remember the SATCOM pings are deep in the communications protocol and not what people would normally look at. How often do you look at the basic network traffic on your router?

- There is speculation that the SATCOM pings contain altitude, heading, speed. From a communications standpoint that does not make sense.

- I believe what is really happening is that experts in this system are trying to derive some location, speed, etc. information from the nature of the pings For instance, what satellites did they hit, when and how strong. Much like GPS, you may be able to derive information about location.


Way-point Tracks:
- There are reports and maps today of a track following way-points.

- The source (Radar? Satcom? Visual?) and veracity of this information is not confirmed.

- At this point I cannot state any factual data related other than it is being discussed in the press


Airworthiness Directive
- The airworthiness directive about corrosion near the SATCOM antenna does not apply to this ship.

- The ship DOES have SATCOM - but uses a different antenna


Search Areas Based on this information - authorities are searching:
- Along the planed route

- West over the Malacca straight

- North west of Malacca straight

- Near the islands of Andaman and Nicobar. Indian a/c report nothing found in this area.

- Unconfirmed: in the Indian Ocean. Initial reports were the US was sending the KIDD there, but I believe those were wrong


Conspiracy Theories:
- There are lots of conspiracy theories out there - from the Malaysian government hiding something to pilot suicide, to hijacking to whatever.

- We have no data to support any of them.

- The breadth of the countries searching alone makes me discount many of the 'government is hiding it' aspects

- It is likely there are covert (secret) resources in the area that are trying to provide the info without revealing themselves.


Mobile phones
- We know that if any mobile phones were connected to the tower - we would have a location and would search there.

- We don't have any reports or evidence of that - so I conclude that it is not viable to consider.


We have lots of complaints about incompetence.
- I've been in and in command of large emergencies and been the one responsible to communicate to large groups.

- Even in the best situations, with cooperating agencies - it is easy to portray incompetence when what is really going on is hard work that is not providing the desired result.

- Complaints continue and will despite what any authority does till something happens.


We have had a lot of "false" sightings. I can not keep up.
- This is common and we need to investigate the credible ones. Most will be false.

- The Chinese Satellite data has not resulted in any findings.

- Indian aircraft have searched (some) near Andaman and Nicobar and nothing found


----------------------
In summary
We KNOW 4 things.
- The a/c disappeared from secondary radar and stopped communicating. We do not know why or what happened to it.

- There is some evidence that it traveled west. But that evidence is not conclusive or sure.

- We have not found it despite multiple governmental agencies from multiple countries searching hard.

- We have a better idea were it is NOT


**** SUMMARY PROVIDED BY MEMBER: rcair1 (Post 77 from thread 23) ****

************************************************************************************************


**** ADDITIONAL NEWS REPORTS ****

MH370: Search for missing Malaysia Airlines plane extended to southern Indian Ocean

Najib's full press statement on MH370

************************************************************************************************


A REMINDER TO ALL OUR MEMBERS:


**** Out of respect to the crew, passengers and also family members; close to those onboard MH370; please keep science fiction theories and content related to possible future movie rights out of these threads. ****

**** Please do not repeat questions and scenarios that were covered and discussed in previous threads and which do not contribute in a constructive manner towards the real topic any longer. ****

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Enjoy the forums!

Regards and thanks for your co-operation,

SA7700


When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
248 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinetomlee From Canada, joined Aug 2010, 348 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (4 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 66049 times:

The inmarsat they used is the IOR 64.5 E based on the twitter image, https://twitter.com/sunshinesulin/status/444763082254868482/photo/1

And the coverage map,
http://www.voxmaris.com.ar/en/fleet77

That would put it within range of POR 178E as well which might have helped or made it even at all possible for just the last point to be roughly determined. (The other older pings might be so crudely estimated that it doesn't mean much).

But both area's have spot beam coverage but those are for higher speed transmissions I think.

But all in all the use of the global beam plot as the map is telling as it would be difficult for even experts to figure out an estimate as I doubt inmarsat is good at doing GPS like positioning.


User currently offlineseahawk From Germany, joined May 2005, 958 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 65912 times:

I wonder why they rule out Somalia or Yemen and believe it went either NW or SW.

https://mapsengine.google.com/map/vi...U&cid=mp&cv=9jjFBVTGZCs.de

[Edited 2014-03-15 04:04:19]

[Edited 2014-03-15 04:05:54]

User currently offlineairkas1 From Netherlands, joined Dec 2003, 3966 posts, RR: 55
Reply 3, posted (4 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 65779 times:

I've been lurking these threads since the first one, without anything to add. But now I do have a question regarding the 'piggyback'-scenario.

On a route that long, wouldn't the 2 aircraft encounter at least a few aircraft going in the opposite way/same way? How likely would it be that one of those other aircraft makes a comment to the KL aircraft that another aircraft is trailing them closer than usual?


User currently offlineVoodoo From Niue, joined Mar 2001, 2071 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 65595 times:

Quoting seahawk (Reply 2):

I wonder why they rule out Somalia or Yemen and believe it went either NW or SW.

Because those countries are heavily observed by satellite and drones?



` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
User currently offlinetomlee From Canada, joined Aug 2010, 348 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 65596 times:

Quoting seahawk (Reply 2):

They are just going off crude sat modem network ping location estimates and I'm pretty sure their maximum position for the last ping is an educated guess basically. The two possible directions is just shows how inaccurate using maybe two large global comm beam data to try and build a position off it.


User currently offlineDalavia From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 543 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 65605 times:

Quoting airkas1 (Reply 3):
On a route that long, wouldn't the 2 aircraft encounter at least a few aircraft going in the opposite way/same way? How likely would it be that one of those other aircraft makes a comment to the KL aircraft that another aircraft is trailing them closer than usual?

Would those other planes be able see the lower aircraft if it had no lights on, no transponder working etc on a moonless night?


User currently offlinek83713 From Russia, joined Jul 2010, 157 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 65618 times:

Quoting airkas1 (Reply 3):

This, and also what about the moment they finally separated? ATC observing one plane becoming two would be feeling strange about it.


User currently offlineRazza74 From Australia, joined Mar 2005, 99 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 65420 times:

If all lighting (internal and external) is switched off it would be harder to spot


Ahh the joy of living under a flightpath
User currently offlinetomlee From Canada, joined Aug 2010, 348 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 65438 times:

Quoting airkas1 (Reply 3):
I've been lurking these threads since the first one, without anything to add. But now I do have a question regarding the 'piggyback'-scenario.

On a route that long, wouldn't the 2 aircraft encounter at least a few aircraft going in the opposite way/same way? How likely would it be that one of those other aircraft makes a comment to the KL aircraft that another aircraft is trailing them closer than usual?

Trailing closer than usually would be an understatement to get the two radar returns to merge you would have to be pretty close (depending on the radar system) so they would be extremely close and not been seen by other aircraft nearby or the one they are tailing. One unexpected move and it will either be a mid-air collision or they would be discovered and reported quickly. One unexpected plane and they would be discovered.


User currently offlineairkas1 From Netherlands, joined Dec 2003, 3966 posts, RR: 55
Reply 10, posted (4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 65276 times:

Quoting Dalavia (Reply 6):

I guess it would be really hard, yes. But in that scneraio, would they have flown the entire route under the cover of darkness? (genuine question)


User currently offlinebrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4116 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 65275 times:

To the poster in the previous thread about using a GPS from your car, it won't work due to the speed of the aircraft, you car doesn't usually travel at 800 kph and the limitations of an automotive GPS would never be able to update fast enough.

I have just read a news clip that Maylay officials now say it was a hijacking. I will only say RIP to those on board, I think it is safe to say they are not going to find any survivors.



Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10645 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 65323 times:

If deliberate action took the 777 somewhere over the Indian Ocean to crash it there it sounds like insurance fraud to me. It will be found out soon if someone on board (maybe with added mental or otherwise grave personal problems like high debt) had a very high life insurance. That shouldnt be too difficult for a team of police detectives to do in a week.

But in case of deliberate action the chance is very, very high that one of the pilots was involved. Even the luckiest highjacker, the quickest and the wittiest needs some seconds to enter the cockpit, plenty of time for the pilot to press the emergency squawk button. Only a scenario where one of the pilots wasnt in the cockpit and/or the involvement of an FA could explain why the only one at the controls might not have pressed the button.

All other possible scenarios of deliberate kidnapping would involve a massive conspiracy, and then for sure involving some crew. The possible northern flightpath which the officials say is roughly on a line Kazakhstan-Northern Thailand, which means also over the main part of Burma/Myanmar, the most questionable, and the largest state in the northeastern Indian ocean area. Odd: why do they mention Thailand, when its further from this flightpath than Burma?

That said, I am amazed that the authorities have apparently not yet researched the background of ALL passengers and crew. Hard to believe that everyone on board was just a nice daddy or a harmless woman. This case became suspicious by the beginning of the week, plenty of time to know a lot by now. The words of the Malaysian PM today suggest that they are now investigating into who was on board, thoroughly I hope even if that will be further pain for their families.

What about a serious, but not immediately deadly structural failure event on board which partly disabled the controls and lead to the suspected odd flightpath until the fuel was exhausted or a mountain was in the way, I mean something along the lines of JAL123?

Quoting SA7700 (Thread starter):
- Even in the best situations, with cooperating agencies - it is easy to portray incompetence when what is really going on is hard work that is not providing the desired result.

Basically I agree with that, but here the main authorities of large countries are involved and not a local or regional emergency team.


User currently offlinetomlee From Canada, joined Aug 2010, 348 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 64903 times:

Quoting brilondon (Reply 11):
To the poster in the previous thread about using a GPS from your car, it won't work due to the speed of the aircraft, you car doesn't usually travel at 800 kph and the limitations of an automotive GPS would never be able to update fast enough.

Just use the map mode. Why even try to use the road navigation 3d view when there isn't a road to follow. Also your iPad/Android can have offline map apps that do work in the air as far as I can tell. How good they are at doing air navigation I'm not sure as my phone has problems keeping the GPS working even on the ground or at sea.


User currently offlineSQA350 From Thailand, joined Apr 2007, 180 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 64696 times:

Quoting airkas1 (Reply 10):
I guess it would be really hard, yes. But in that scneraio, would they have flown the entire route under the cover of darkness? (genuine question)

Yes they would have. Last "contact" to MH370 was around 8.10am local Malaysian time. If they flew west, they would still have been in darkness.



"No more window seats in business class, sir!" "Any in economy? Yes? Then downgrade me!"
User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 64434 times:

Can we just go back and do a bit of an introduction to the history of terrorism to provide some context for people who might be unduly influenced by 9/11? (I spent most of my childhood in England, during a period of Irish terrorism.)

Important historical facts:

1) Hardly any hijackings have been executed by the pilot or crew. It is incredibly rare.

2) Hardly any hijackings have been to use the airplane as a weapon.

3) Most hijackers follow the successful model of the Israeli Irgun and Stern Gang terrorists who bombed and shot the British in the 1940s to obtain their independence. Their actions are usually intended:

a) to convince the enemy that the price they must pay to control the disputed territory is not worth paying. OR
b) to bargain for the release of imprisoned colleagues from their organisation. OR
c) to obtain (good) publicity for their cause.

(This is why 9/11 still attracts so much scepticism and so many conspiracy theories - it does not make any sense in terms of how international terrorists have practised throughout history and it seems to have caused massive damage to the infrastructure of the culprits, who lost their safe haven as a result.)

4) China has played an extremely smart hand in terms of how it has portrayed its battle against Uighur separatists in disputed western China. They have portrayed them as Muslim extremists allied to global terror, which has been music to American ears and has seen the Uighurs lose their funding and international support and has made them so weak that some of them actually have gravitated towards Islamic fundamentalism as the only source of support.

This last factor would explain why if the USA knew that China was hiding something (such as a failed assault on a hijacked aircraft) they would not necessarily want to go public with that information for fear of weakening global unity against Islamic terror organisations.

So please think carefully before assuming that the pilot is the number 1 suspect or that terrorists routinely use aircraft as weapons.


User currently offlinek83713 From Russia, joined Jul 2010, 157 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 64210 times:

I'm curious also of what could be used as weapon on board to perform hijacking and are there any indications security flawed when scanning...
Also does MH have a security officer on board? Of course no security officer can fight with high altitude hypoxia, but at least he would know where oxygen bottles are located in the rear part, so if there was sudden and sharp altitude pitch he could get those and deal with the situation on the cockpit...


User currently offlineairkas1 From Netherlands, joined Dec 2003, 3966 posts, RR: 55
Reply 17, posted (4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 63949 times:

Quoting SQA350 (Reply 14):
Quoting airkas1 (Reply 10):
I guess it would be really hard, yes. But in that scneraio, would they have flown the entire route under the cover of darkness? (genuine question)

Yes they would have. Last "contact" to MH370 was around 8.10am local Malaysian time. If they flew west, they would still have been in darkness.

Ok, thanks!


User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10645 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 63569 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 15):
So please think carefully before assuming that the pilot is the number 1 suspect or that terrorists routinely use aircraft as weapons.

Of course, but in the case that this plane was kidnapped without the involvement of the pilots or another member of the crew dont you think its totally unprofessional that one of the pilots didnt press the emergency squawk button? Thats easy and the very first thing to do. Otherwise such button is useless. I cannot think about a single scenario where the pilots would not have been able to press that button if not one of them (or an FA in the cockpit) was involved. Can you?

[Edited 2014-03-15 04:28:24]

User currently offlinek83713 From Russia, joined Jul 2010, 157 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 62791 times:

Quoting na (Reply 18):

If someone was invited to cabin during take-off (as was mentioned, there are claims that F/O was noticed doing that before, I'm not sure about captain and I dind't see evidence of that, except of the news about Australian lady), than he could stay until IGARI, captain goes out, intruder deals with F/O, lock the door from inside and begins pitching plane up to 45000.
It's just a scenario of imagenary movie, but it's still possible.


User currently offlinepvjin From Finland, joined Mar 2012, 1205 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 62774 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 15):
1) Hardly any hijackings have been executed by the pilot or crew. It is incredibly rare.

That's how it was pre 9/11 times. But nowadays the truth is it's incredibly hard for any non-crew member to forcefully get into the cockpit, thus crew members should be the number one suspects if a commercial jetliner gets hijacked.



"A rational army would run away"
User currently offlineUALWN From Andorra, joined Jun 2009, 2752 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 62812 times:

In this transcript

http://www.malaysiakini.com/news/257..._source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

the Malaysian prime minister is quoted as saying

"Based on new satellite information, we can say with a high degree of certainty that the Aircraft Communications Addressing and Reporting System (ACARS) was disabled just before the aircraft reached the east coast of Peninsular Malaysia."

This would mean that it was disabled some 10 minutes before the last communication between pilots and ATC. So who disabled the system (which implies descending into the EE bay)? A hijacker, unnoticed? Unlikely. One of the pilots, unnoticed? Unlikely. Had the plane already been taken over at that point by whoever did the hijacking? Or is it just that the last ACARS message was received at that point, and the system was disabled at any time between then and whenever the next message was scheduled to be sent? But, in that case, why did the PM say what he said, which, hopefully, was very carefully worded?

[Edited 2014-03-15 04:36:55]


AT7/111/146/Avro/CRJ/CR9/EMB/ERJ/E75/F50/100/L15/DC9/D10/M8X/717/727/737/747/757/767/777/AB6/310/319/320/321/330/340/380
User currently offlineseahawk From Germany, joined May 2005, 958 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 62774 times:

GPS on your mobile works. I used the Alpine Quest app quite a few times during flights when bored.

User currently offlinek83713 From Russia, joined Jul 2010, 157 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 62565 times:

Quoting UALWN (Reply 21):
was disabled just before the aircraft reached the east coast of Peninsular Malaysia

It can be seen as "before it reached east coast but after turn around at IGARI", so after last transmission.

[Edited 2014-03-15 04:43:09]

User currently offlineBridYYC From Canada, joined Dec 2008, 13 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 62125 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 15):
Important historical facts:

1) Hardly any hijackings have been executed by the pilot or crew. It is incredibly rare.

2) Hardly any hijackings have been to use the airplane as a weapon.

3) Most hijackers follow the successful model of the Israeli Irgun and Stern Gang terrorists who bombed and shot the British in the 1940s to obtain their independence. Their actions are usually intended:

a) to convince the enemy that the price they must pay to control the disputed territory is not worth paying. OR
b) to bargain for the release of imprisoned colleagues from their organisation. OR
c) to obtain (good) publicity for their cause.

Fair points. However, 9/11 changed how terrorism and airplanes are linked. Historically, to your points, hijacking has been used as you say. But with 9/11, those airplanes were used to kill, shock, and instill fear. And that changed, in the public's eye as well as in the terrorists eye, what the potential was to use airplanes in ways that no one dared before. Frankly, from a terrorists perspective, it set a new standard if you will. I'm not trying to start a debate on 9/11 (please no...) rather say that when considering terrorism of some sort related to MH370, I don't know that history prior to 9/11 is the best indicator.


25 kevinkevin : I would say it would be more likely, if a terrorist attack, the aircraft headed northwest to the border of Kazakhstan/Terkmenistan. They need to do de
26 koruman : A few more comments about the background to today's developments: 1) When the Malaysian PM spoke about one line heading towards the border between Kaz
27 VC315 : That's not enough reason on this earth for the US to do such a cover-up for Chinese government, especially when's no proven evidence suggesting the p
28 slinky09 : And seems to be backed up by subsequent press briefings. Completely agree. I return to this point, I don't see this as terrorism in the sense of kill
29 liquidair : I'm agreeing with your opinion that suicide is unlikely- i can't see that being an option after such meticulous planning was involved. Has anyone com
30 Post contains links infinitybeyond : Apparently there was an emergency drill at Nanning airport precisely on the night MH370 disappeared. http://translate.google.com/translat...%2Fnewssho
31 na : Who disputes that still? Only certain Egyptians who deny the obvious without reason. That guy was facing accusations of sexual assault of some kind,
32 VC315 : But that's hours before the flight even took off...
33 pvjin : What meticulous planning? For all we know the hijacker could have just locked the door when the other pilot went to toilet & then changed aircraf
34 asetiadi : If this is a hijacking... and sure it becoming more likely... then I will blame Malaysia Airlines 100%. Why? Because they allowed a hijacker enter the
35 art : Sorry, I did not see the press conference. What hard new information (info with given data, verified by given sources) emerged? I see it may be embara
36 BridYYC : Wishful thinking. I echo the wishful part but I can't logically make that work. Why would anyone keep 239 people hostage and the best kept secret in
37 peterinlisbon : I think it's interesting the time of the last signal from the aircraft: just after 8am. This is just after sunrise which means that the aircraft could
38 koruman : With respect, that is not the scenario that I put forward in the last thread. My scenario was as follows: 1) Uighur sympathisers (possibly including
39 AR385 : I have read the past 25 threads and have not come across these questions I´m going to ask, nor are they in the very well prepared summaries: 1) Why M
40 asetiadi : Reply no.39 If that is true... thats gonna be the next blockbuster summer movie Now I have one million dollar question.... how are they going to keep
41 SLCGuy : Forgive me if this has been mentioned already, I've tried to follow all 26 threads and Moderaters summaries but this a hard thing to follow. Since thi
42 liquidair : look, nothing can proven at this point so it is speculation. But realistically, the timing of everything just seems to be a little too coincidental-
43 k83713 : Pilots, being relatively well established people, would go on this, flying Malaysian aircraft away? Fails for me. I don't see the sense for them doin
44 laddb : If I am reading correctly, they think the plane either headed north or south. Has it been explained why they don't know for sure? Maybe they had only
45 vfw614 : Agreed. But nevertheless insignificant. There were also hardly any terrorists that flew airliners into skyscrapers before 9/11.
46 pvjin : My shot is that either one of the pilots or possibly some other crew member had developed some kind of serious mental illness over the time and did t
47 BridYYC : I've asked the same question (to myself.) The only logical conclusion I could reach is that it was an inside job and they went with who they could ge
48 Tapir : How do we know there was no demand made? What if demand already made but ignored or maybe still going on but Malaysia (Msia) is keeping quiet about it
49 AR385 : Oh, and by the way, since we are far beyond Twilight Zone territory now, I will refrain from subscribing to any theory until more hard facts are known
50 art : This would assume that the air defence systems of any country overflown failed to respond to the uninvited intrusion into their airspace of an extrem
51 BaconButty : 2 possible reasons? 1. The amplitude of the satellite pings? Not sure you can tell that when the geostationary orbit is, what, 30k Km up? But if you
52 RyanairGuru : I agree 100%. If it is out there in the ocean west of Perth (which is looking increasingly unlikely) then it was either suicide or the aircraft ran o
53 koruman : Except for the fact that I doubt that all of the passengers would have been killed in the actual assault. There would be dozens - maybe even hundreds
54 pvjin : Well it wouldn't really be the first rescue operation going wrong, I don't think it would be serious enough to justify hiding the whole thing. It's n
55 YoungMans : Further to 25/308 .... Not all that long ago, the Iranians forced down an unmanned US aircraft, intact, a drone. It did make the news at the time but
56 peterinlisbon : I think I know where the aircraft is. I think it landed on the G217 highway on the stretch south of the city of Aral in Xinjiang Province, Western Chi
57 k83713 : Is cargohold accessible from the flight deck on 772? Should you depressurize the cabin for it?
58 pvjin : Or maybe the aircraft secretly got more fuel and it flew to Antarctica. That's the best place to hide an airliner, no random people around to spot it
59 Starlionblue : No, it is not accessible from the flight deck. The cargo hold, flight deck and passenger cabin are in the same pressure vessel. You cannot separate t
60 Post contains links and images rebr : Yes, sounds plausible (not) to hide a 300 ton aircraft behind some dunes in a desert. This is what happens when an aircraft drives on normal asphalt:
61 VC315 : (1) We don't know for sure there is a Chinese military station at Great Coco Island/Coco Islands - there're speculations however they seen have been
62 tomlee : First of all WSJ is always mixing things up the last possible "position" is more like the last probable limits of where they think it could have gone
63 laddb : I read that the US is searching the south as that is most probable. And that the authorities have just now started to search the pilots home. That too
64 k83713 : Ok, thanks. So it means no special equipment or tools could be obtained from there during the flight and all hijacker would operate should be in his
65 AR385 : I doubt it. Today is when the info. is coming out but I bet that as soon as they started sending ships toward the Malacca strait they were already se
66 flyinTLow : There is no such thing as an emergency squawk button. You have to enter the squawk code 7700 into the transponder. This then in return shows the rada
67 solarflyer22 : Russians did too but those were autonomous. I assumed it was struggle in the cabin. Even if Radar is off, its by 15% so clearly there was some abrupt
68 Tapir : Exactly, why the delay when the plane actually flew the wrong direction and no demand made by anyone so far? Are they avoiding unnecessary attention
69 tomlee : It doesn't make sense that someone with inside knowledge wouldn't know to turn off the transmitters SATCOM, VHF instead of just selectively turning o
70 VC315 : Still, if the plane was downed in China, or trapped or stormed in China with large casualities, the US/rest of the world could still blame the hijack
71 cat3appr50 : Was this aircraft equipped with passenger Wi-Fi capability? If so, there is certainly internet connectivity data and cell phone ping data. Are these a
72 DTW2HYD : What if this is a joy ride gone bad. Lets assume crew wanted to take it to 45,000. May be they practiced at home. This event started in the only VHF c
73 Starlionblue : The pilot was not a suspect a few days ago since there was no reason to believe nefarious intent. In a democracy, you can't go searching homes withou
74 BoeingVista : Yes, Asian politness does not allow him to point fingers directly at neighbours but it is significant that the PM made the statement, they have reach
75 tomlee : If you had to goto the electronics bay to turn off ACARS (the first thing to supposedly be disabled) why not turn the sat modem (something that wasn'
76 koruman : Yes, there is. China is one of four other countries at the UN Security Council that possesses a veto. And another, Russia, is engaged in particularly
77 Post contains images flyingturtle : Insurance fraud is still tossed around as a theory. I don't buy this. First, the insurer will withhold payment until the final accident report has bee
78 peterinlisbon : Who says that this road is made of asphalt? It might be made of concrete or some other tougher material in order to last longer. In any case we'd be t
79 k83713 : Why then not to declare emergency and land, but to continue flying somewhere? If it was a joyride, if something starts to go wrong you try to save yo
80 Norlander : If you want to take it to a secluded and secure location Diego Garcia is the only one that fits the bill ... But really it's at the bottom of the Indi
81 na : I didnt want to describe the process in detail, just mention that this "button pressing" would be the very first a pilot would and MUST do when a hig
82 seahawk : Highway could have parts that are prepared as landing strips for the military. But no place with a highway in China is so remote that a 777 would not
83 k83713 : Authorities said several times they beleive the plane ultimately crashed. Question surfes through me over and over again, why are they that sure, and
84 liquidair : we don't know that yet. in another interesting news... mandala (via twitter) is suggesting the plane may have shadowed another to evade detection....
85 9VSIO : This has been discussed to death. Those systems are not paramount to flight safety, and therefore can be turned off. Please look at the crash of Swis
86 BoeingVista : The permanent 5 all believe themselves to be the potential targets of this kind of terrorism and would each clear themselves to use "extreme measures
87 pvjin : I agree, to me all the theories plane getting hijacked to land it somewhere & steal its cargo sound extremely unlikely. A mad crew member committ
88 DTW2HYD : But there is a problem with this theory, if someone literally "cut power" to SATCOM in E/E bay how did it send "keep-alive" pings, which investigator
89 VC315 : With or without the US, China is in already in a conundrum on Crimea. Ukraine supposedly has supplied China with military technologies when Russia wa
90 trex8 : They did see it, they didn't know what it was and didn't think it was hostile at the time. Besides they may have bankers hours like the Swiss AF as t
91 RussianJet : I think most people get that, but the fact is that this is a highly weird situation. There a lot of pilots out there, occasionally one is going to fl
92 Post contains links spacecadet : Watch this: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26591531 I originally didn't get it either, but my confusion just stemmed from the use of the word "co
93 SCQ83 : That is my personal feeling as well. It is the most logical and "easiest" way. Almost any other theory gives many "So why didn't they?" I wonder thou
94 doug_Or : I'm not familiar with these systems, but I thought it was established in one of the early threads that the ACARS functionality (sending reports, etc)
95 katekebo : A question to one of the professional commercial pilots on this forums. I know that Malaysian authorities have already communicated that they think co
96 k83713 : And I agree with that, but if things went wrong on FL450 then there should be remains of the aircraft, and if they went so wrong that pilots couldn't
97 Post contains links flyingturtle : Professionals sometimes do joy rides: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinnacle_Airlines_Flight_3701 In this accident, the pilots didn't communicate the
98 DTW2HYD : Keep in mind there is no VHF coverage. May be over confidence, may have practiced various recovery scenarios on simulator, but real life always prese
99 jetfuel : This is not impossible and in the absence of any ransom, demands, evidence of suicidality I dont think a (simple) series of system failures should be
100 seahawk : One crew member alone could not do it. He would have to remove the other pilot and disable any means of communication in the cabin. But we know that t
101 na : No way a 777 can be ditched in the sea at night without breaking up. Due to its engine size the 777 is the worst plane imaginable to perform a susses
102 Post contains links ultrablue : Given the possible southern 'corridor' intersects with Australia's over-the-horizon radar ranges, I wonder if Australia can help to eliminate part of
103 koruman : On the basis of what we have learned today: 1) The aircraft did not suffer any technical fault. 2) It was deliberately hijacked. 3) It was flown towar
104 BaconButty : Transcript of the Malaysian PM statement (I'm assuming this is fair usage, since it's not an article as such, and all over t'interweb). Stuff I think
105 seahawk : I think it is not likely today, as passengers and crew will have GPS equipped mobile phones which will give them position data. Good enough to get ba
106 Post contains links tomlee : Based on the coverage maps for inmarsat's I-3 network the last ping is probably the only real useful one as it is around the area where two sat's cov
107 SCQ83 : That is your personal assumption, not what the Malaysian government has stated.
108 na : Where is the problem? Pilots regularly "remove themselves" from the cockpit by going to the toilet. What if the other one uses that occasion to shoot
109 k83713 : If there can be any positive in all of this crazy nightmare, that's confirmation that 777 is still awesome and safe machine. Obviously, we people lear
110 tomlee : It does seem to intersect but only barely if the wikipedia map is accurate of course. That also assumes the maximum southern position from the sat es
111 nupogodi : The "keep-alive" pings are a low level networking concept that I don't think many professional pilots would be aware of, since it's completely irrele
112 flood : We haven't learned that at all. That's your opinion, please don't misrepresent it as some kind of factual finding. As opposed to your theory of a bot
113 jetfuel : China has been VERY quiet considering the earlier uproar and frustration with Malaysian authorities
114 na : Actually I think a highjack scenario, no matter if political or suicidal due to private reasons, and the fact the world is clueless is much more frig
115 philask : So, Al-Qaeda took it and landed it in Pakistan... next move?
116 Post contains links flood : Reuters, four hours ago: "China demands Malaysia give more accurate information on plane" http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...rlines-china-idUSBRE
117 Miami : Vietnam has decided to end their search for missing Malaysian Airlines flight 370 according to a Vietnamese official
118 tomlee : Creating some international cover-up perfectly is a tall order for such a situation and the consequences of even the most minor slip up would be huge
119 SA7700 : SOME IMPORTANT REMINDERS FOR ALL OUR MEMBERS TO CONSIDER BEFORE POSTING IN THIS THREAD: **** Out of respect to the crew, passengers and also family me
120 koruman : Here is what their Prime Minister said: I don't see any great disparity between my interpretation and what the PM said. It's unlikely that the pilot
121 Post contains images tim73 : Gold from Ukraine. Maybe the pilots decided to secure their retirement once and for all! Now the plane is sitting on tarmac of some rarely or unused
122 pvjin : Why not? Like I've said many times it's perfectly plausible theory a suicidal crew member hijacked the plane, flew it far into Indian Ocean and crash
123 jetfuel : I have translated some of the Malay of the Captains facebook page. What do you think? https://www.facebook.com/zaharie.shah.3 right terror anwar ne. !
124 capri : I am going towards a sabotage theory, the plane just came out of fresh maintenance schedule, and I think some sort of devices put in to control autopi
125 argonaught : I thought I had already posted this somewhere, but apparently I never did: If they landed in a theoretical "safe" location, it would take some time a
126 Tapir : This is what I am trying to bring to attention in reply 48 above. Certain event happened in Malaysia which may have had an impact on the Captain. Rem
127 koruman : And this has been the main alternative to the Uighur terrorism motive in my posts all along. This event took place the day after the main leader of p
128 Tapir : The pilot is also a life member of the political party headed by Anwar.
129 Post contains images ultrablue : I think it pretty much covers it quite nicely. See below.
130 Post contains links PanAmPaul : What I am now finding mostinteresting about the news from the PM is the high amount of apparent cooperation that makes it look like things were happen
131 md11sdf : At his point, isn't it time to open a new thread, under a NEW TITLE and close/delete all of those numerous threads that looked at this incident as a "
132 Planeflyer : Sorry new to the site and have not figured out how to look up my 1st post which went like this: Who benefits form a hijacking? A government? I can’t
133 Starlionblue : Sorry should have been more clear. I didn't say that this had been done, just that it was plausible a hypothetical hijacker would cut every thing but
134 BoeingVista : Nice map, I guess the Australians can help debunk the southern route theory, as long as the radar works as advertised. I was most surprised to read t
135 dougbr2006 : What I cant get hold of from some of the statements of the Malay president is that they say the AHARS was turned off before the final known position.
136 SCQ83 : I remember reading in the news (in Europe) a few hours before MH370 about Anwar Ibrahim incarcirated for sodomy. And then about the disappearance of
137 ComeAndGo : It could also point to something else. The president steps in. Why does he do that. Because he reads in the press that his country is in disarray tha
138 Starlionblue : That thread could be started, but even the investigators are admitting that this is not the only avenue of investigation, just the most likely scenar
139 na : Last satellite contact at 08:11 local time. If thats true and not another track thats called bullshit tomorrow then its exactly the time fuel would ha
140 holzmann : Thinking along the lines of using a 777 to inflict terror in 9-11 style... I would like to know if the pilots or anyone on the plane had any sort of c
141 BoeingVista : These theories are not mutually exclusive, and most of the leaking has been coming from unnamed US officials so you can hardly blame the Malaysians f
142 flood : If I were a pilot intent on committing such an act and had it out for the company or it's owner (government), why plant the thing in their own backya
143 nupogodi : Prime Minister.
144 na : Before anything else, yes. The chairman and CEO stepping in always means image correction as well as kicking butts of bad managers. Wonder what we´l
145 rcair1 : FYI - I'm working on a new "sanity check" this morning based on the latest news. That will appear either at the end of this - or the beginning of the
146 Post contains links argonaught : There could be .. someplace where no-one has looked. It's not terribly hard to hide an airplane. During the WWII, they tucked away under a tarp a who
147 Tapir : Actually, I thought there was something in his Facebook but I cant find the thread which mentioned it here. On March 8, an unprecedented trial took p
148 SLCPilot : Serious question... Do all/most/some/any/none life rafts and slides have individual ELTs? Is this an option or not? SLCPilot
149 ER757 : My question to you would be why land in a remote location and hide the plane? To what end? If someone pirated the aircraft to hold it and the passeng
150 Post contains links suseJ772 : As I stated in post 6 I think, there are some very interesting things out in the remote parts of China that easily could handle something this size w
151 blueheronNC : Unless the point of the hijacking was for the plane itself, not the passengers. Then you kill them as seamlessly as you can (hypoxia at a high altitu
152 Post contains links dirktraveller : Hi everyone, I have been skimming again the past four threads I've missed. I am aware of the recent press conference by the Malaysian PM indicating th
153 na : How utterly incompetent must the Malaysians be if a WHOLE WEEK later its revealed the plane flew on for 6 hours longer? The only alternative to incomp
154 danvs : Now that there's a possibility that MH370 crashed in the middle of the Indian Ocean, I wonder if we might never find the debris (let alone the CVR/FDR
155 na : Almost certainly, yes, but perhaps so small and in such remote places it might pass unnoticed.
156 Tapir : In Msia, the legal system works differently. Police can ransack with or without a warrant depending on the situation.
157 kevinkevin : Really if it is confirmed the plane flew for 6hrs longer, I see no point in searching the Malacca Strait or the Andaman sea.[Edited 2014-03-15 08:24:4
158 BaconButty : But it isn't the Malaysians who've been doing the bulk of the leaking, there's only the one instance and that may be down to a misunderstanding. Init
159 jcxroberts : re: The Southern Route. Indonesia stated they got no radar pings.
160 Jetlagged : It's simplistic and misleading to say either they knew or they were incompetent. You missed the third possibility: The Malaysians simply had no evide
161 danvs : But no one knows the exact track or position of the airplane, so it might be anywhere, including the Malacca Strait, the Andaman sea, or anywhere wit
162 BaconButty : That may not be true - the data was obtained from the "satellite services provider" and analysed by the Malaysian, US and UK investigators independen
163 Post contains links and images suseJ772 : Ok, I know I got slammed for being Xenophobic for suggesting Chinese espionage by some on here. But given the recent developments, I want to at least
164 pvjin : If they first flew towards west and then turned south it shouldn't have been difficult to avoid Indonesian radars.
165 solarflyer22 : Anything is possible but I highly doubt it. F93 and 9/11 were mostly Saudi and Egyptian Arabs. There were literally no Arabs on this plane let alone
166 na : Sorry, but its your answer that is nonsense. The plane wasnt stopped, not identified, not even detected in time. So, what the logical answer? If they
167 Tapir : Not exactly true. The people with stolen passport was not even detected by Msian authorities until the real owners told their passport were stolen. I
168 nupogodi : The investigators would have run all the passport numbers against the Interpol database.
169 DTW2HYD : Scenario #1 where pilots and airline ops can exchange messages ACARS CONSOLE -> ACARS CONTROLLER -> SATCOM -> INMARSAT -> SITA -> AIRL
170 ComeAndGo : The Malaysian Military leaked information about the radar dots to the straight of Malacca. At one point the crash investigators stated that only info
171 Mouldypete : The current assumption seems to be that the plane was flying for seven hours until 8:10am. Is this based solely on the reception by Inmarsat satellite
172 ultrablue : From memory the consensus was that they are just fake airports painted onto the ground for Chinese air force training.
173 Tapir : They didn't and even claimed that too many names and it would be tedious. The truth is a friend of the two Iranians posted in the comment section of
174 Post contains links and images luisde8cd : Guys, I read a tweet that implies that MH370 could had "shadowed" SQ68 on its way from SIN to BCN. Take a look at flightaware log for SQ68, especially
175 jcxroberts : This makes a lot sense reading how focused the pilot was about politics, his facebook posts. Also the Nanning story wasn't just a rumor, some decent
176 suseJ772 : For sure. But that doesn't preclude it to be used for other things. Kind of like Edwards Air Force base.
177 flyorski : Except it did not have the fuel to do so.
178 suseJ772 : I thought about a scenario like that myself, but wouldn't it be picked up on the other planes TCAS? Or does the transponder need to be on for TCAS to
179 Wolger : Just to state it again Malaysia had mentioned a day or 2 after incident Day 1 (can't remember) "there IS possibility of a Turnback" by the aircraft (a
180 nupogodi : Impossible they are from another aircraft. The SATCOM modem, like any networked device, will have a unique identifier like the ICAO 24-bit address fo
181 suseJ772 : 1) We don't know what Fuel it had because no one has officially released what was loaded. 2.) I think the theory is that it broke off at some point a
182 BaconButty : Which is why I said there's been one instance. I really can't follow this. The investigators clearly did follow up the Military primary radar evidenc
183 fooflyboy : Could one of you professionals describe exactly how cockpit doors are locked these days? And also what the protocol is regarding rest room breaks and
184 nupogodi : TCAS relies on the transponder to work.
185 Miami : Malaysian investigators conclude missing airliner hijacked. The official said that hijacking was no longer a theory. "It is conclusive."
186 Tristarsteve : On the pilots MFD they can deselect ACARS transmission by VHF and SATCOM. This does not tuen off the VHF and SATCOM, just stops ACARS from using them
187 lgbga : That we are aware of. I have read that it landed. Who's to say it didn't refuel. Just a thought.
188 Tapir : My guess is the government retracted the 240 a.m. time because by then it would been way passed Vietnam. Vietnam then would have denied the plane eve
189 aircal62 : reading through all the post and following the news closely a few things stand out to me at least. The two tracts discussed one following south and th
190 solarflyer22 : No, but the Malayasian confirmed they entered on their real passports. The stolen passports were used just once, to get into Europe. Besides, turning
191 nupogodi : Finally, another confirmation on this. I had been repeating this throughout this thread but people kept going on and on about the damn E/E bay.
192 Freeman : As others, I've followed this story unfold with great interest... I believe certain facts have been leaked (which authorities are now trying to cover
193 solarflyer22 : I mean this is really fanciful. You do realize the aircraft livery would say "MALAYSIAN AIRLINES". Someone is going to spot it unless you repaint it,
194 pvjin : Cool story, are the Illuminati lizard overlords involved too? Seriously, that's one of the worst conspiracy theories I've ever heard. Why go hijack a
195 Tapir : Correction; Malaysia did not say that. Interpol said they entered Msia using their real passport. Msia would not say that because if they used their
196 ranold76 : How many of you logical-minded, career professionals would kill yourself and 230+ innocents over your political party's leader getting arrested? Seemi
197 MarcoT : Close to zero. Do something like the London Great Heist and nobody will be really THAT interested, heck you can even enyoy your money somewhere abroa
198 solarflyer22 : Interpol is probably more reliable. They get visas on arrival in Thailand and Malaysia. That was already covered earlier. Its like 14 days or somethi
199 AYVN : How big % of hull-loss incidents of all times has been due foul play? I don't think very high. Most have been due human error of some kind ie pilot er
200 SCQ83 : Someone with a mental disorder; millions of people have them. Not the first time this happen (Egyptair or LAM). The arrest could be just a catalyzer
201 jcxroberts : People are just putting out ideas, no one is implying they know the facts.
202 Tapir : I am pretty sure no Visa requirement for Iranian in Msia. I am not sure what was covered but Immigration always check for entry stamp,
203 capri : could it be that both pilots got into a heavy argument about political issues that happened a day before in Malaysia, and one of them lost it to the p
204 blueheronNC : Perhaps because buying an old 747-200 that our military and satellites are already keeping tabs on (and you'd better believe they are) doesn't give y
205 jcxroberts : Because the PM of Malaysia said so, for one. He could be wrong though.
206 ComeAndGo : Because ElAl flies 772. You want to blend in when you crash the stolen plane into Jerusalem.
207 nupogodi : More than 0%.
208 PHX787 : It is so hard to keep up with all of these threads so forgive me for asking, and it may even be more worthwhile to send me a PM for this answer, but h
209 pvjin : If Iran is supposed to be the attacker what's the point of that? Even then you could buy some used 772 and do just the same with less effort.
210 solarflyer22 : No worries. Speculating is better here than getting flamed on TV. I too though of a fire at first because of the progressive nature of failure and th
211 Tapir : Possible...but then why bother with all the diversion. Let's ask again. Could there be a demand (or a political statement) that are yet to be told by
212 Post contains images JettTracer : Two things... what are the cargo transported by MH370. Another thing - possibility of the flight intercepted and landed in Diego Garcia?
213 capri : well i thought like from watching so many fbi files show, u get criminals trying to figure out what to do after committing a crime and especially acc
214 k83713 : For instance, to find himself in the region as distant as possible from the search area? No, it doesn't look like suicide effort.
215 timothy31388 : A good question, sir. I have been wondering as well, what else was the aircraft carrying in the cargo hold on that particular flight.
216 EricR : There was a chance / fear that China was going to veto this along side Russia. The fact that China abstained instead of vetoing it is considered a "w
217 capri : not only that, read yesterday in earlier thread someone tweeted that MH370 cargo was the only one not screened
218 danvs : One possibility, discussed previously, is that the suicidal pilot had made a life insurance, so his family would benefit from it. Another possibility
219 pvjin : Insurance money? Could be possible if the aircraft flew so deep into the Indian Ocean that it will be never found, so insurance company has to pay. O
220 ComeAndGo : Why would the FAA/NTSB know anything about military radar ? The flight information on civilian aviation comes from the transponder in the aircraft. T
221 suseJ772 : Agree. The fact they haven't released the cargo manifest (if they even know it), and the actual amount of fuel load, is confusing to me.
222 SCQ83 : You are assuming that someone with a mental disorder is not able to act "professionally". Otherwise most crimes planned and committed by people with
223 nupogodi : Because they shared the raw data with investigators. They said early on that they would do so, and the PM said in his statement that revealing their
224 nupogodi : Regarding pilot suicide, a quote from 'cockpitvisit' on PPRuNe: In the past 15 years, there have been 3 deadly crashes caused by flight crew suicide.
225 danvs : Does anyone know if ships cruising along the Indian Ocean or Western Australia have been asked (as a courtesy) to search the waters for debris? (Is th
226 Post contains images BaconButty : Regarding the talk of a two "corridors" I presume these are derived from the fact they can use latency or amplitude to detect distance from the Inmars
227 hohd : I am afraid if it indeed crashed into the Indian ocean, there is a possibility that it will never be found. I think the searchers have about 3 to 4 we
228 gobeyond : There are so many conspiracy theories floating around. I think we should expect the plane to have crashed and it will just end up being a huge effort.
229 k83713 : Regarding "shadow" theory, two issues: - you must be close to another airplane but how close? You cannot be just below since you have to see what over
230 nupogodi : This would not actually preserve fuel.
231 flyinTLow : I haven't read through all post of the previous threads, so my appolagies if this question has been asked before: but does the 777 have chemical oxyge
232 ComeAndGo : Unless you have different information. The info I have says the plane that crossed over Malaysia was not confirmed to be (positively ID'ed) as MH370
233 BaconButty : By cross comparison with the satellite data:
234 nm2582 : If they were over an ATC/country that expected them, then nobody would be surprised or care that the one blip/return became two. Actually, for purpos
235 N328KF : Why is anyone even giving this any credence? JettTracer's suggestion would result in a propaganda coup for the US, and we would trumpet that as much
236 ComeAndGo : Unless you have different information. The info I have says the plane that crossed over Malaysia was not confirmed to be (positively ID'ed) as MH370
237 slinky09 : I think a recap of known facts and then some possibilities. We know: - ACARS and the plane's transponder were turned off / disabled. The Malay PM desc
238 solarflyer22 : It might be barely possible in terms of fuel. But they would have wasted nearly 1 hours worth of fuel in the Gulf of Thailand when they should have j
239 Post contains links shortstack81 : I don't know if it's been discussed or mentioned before but there's a picture of this aircraft's flight deck on wikipedia (from the Airliners.net gall
240 peterinlisbon : Those mystery runways in China are very strange. The longest runway looks like 3km long, certainly enough for a 777. I wonder if the Chinese military
241 solarflyer22 : Yeah anyone know what was in the holds other than Li batteries?
242 nupogodi : They were picked up at IGARI at FL350, which almost perfectly coincides with MH370's last SSR contact. With the SATCOM info, it is guaranteed.
243 nm2582 : Pretty close. We're talking a bit of precision flying, for sure; but it's entirely possible. Keep in mind that we aren't talking "shadow" in the sens
244 nupogodi : The only thing that doesn't work for the 'shadow theory' is, what if either of the flights got delayed? That's one hell of a risk.
245 gobeyond : Slinky09 great recap! But why are we still stuck on conspiracies? Here is one: All the passengers were contracted actors and ATC was included. The pl
246 slinky09 : Absolutely, as I said, there's likely a lot of coffee being drunk somewhere. But then this is a forum and theories interest the brain!
247 Clancy : First time poster here and glad to join such a remarkable aviation lovers' community. Yeah, and what you said is one of the problem of the theory that
248 Post contains links SA7700 : Due to length this thread will be locked for further contributions. All posts added after the thread lock will be removed for housekeeping purposes on
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14 posted Tue Mar 11 2014 11:47:20 by SA7700
MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 36 posted Tue Mar 18 2014 20:16:15 by jetblueguy22
MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 35 posted Tue Mar 18 2014 12:04:32 by SA7700