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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27  
User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 25
Posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 80883 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
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Due to length part 26 was locked for further contributions. Please feel free to continue your discussion in part 27.

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 1 (by Longhornmaniac Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2 (by LipeGIG Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 3 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 7 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 8 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 11 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13 (by SA7700 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14 (by SA7700 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 16 (by SA7700 Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17 (by 777ER Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 20 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 23 (by SA7700 Mar 14 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24 (by SA7700 Mar 14 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25 (by SA7700 Mar 14 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26 (by SA7700 Mar 15 2014 in Civil Aviation)



**** ADDITIONAL NEWS REPORTS ****

MH370: search for missing Malaysia Airlines plane extended to southern Indian Ocean

Najib's full press statement on MH370

Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370: What we know so far

MISSING MH370: Timeline



************************************************************************************************


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**** Please make an effort to read through some of the threads, if possible the latest in the series, before adding your own comments and theories to the current, active thread on this issue. ****

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Enjoy the forums!

Regards and thanks for your co-operation,

SA7700


When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
356 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineClancy From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2014, 2 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 81059 times:

First time poster here and glad to join such a remarkable aviation lovers' community.

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 238):

Yeah, and what you said is one of the problem of the theory that Uyghur terrorists took over the plane for the purpose of carrying further attacks.

Also, the history of attacks carried out by Uyghur terrorists suggested that they are hardly capable of pulling off something of such magnitude.


User currently offlinenm2582 From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 124 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 80779 times:

reply that got posted to the old thread after cutoff:

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 244):
The only thing that doesn't work for the 'shadow theory' is, what if either of the flights got delayed? That's one hell of a risk.

Oh, it definitely is. You'd have to do your homework - look for a reliable airline, an aircraft type with a great dispatch rate, and a particular route with good consistency in departure times, and then roll the dice (take the risk/chance). The KLM flight seems to fit this profile...


User currently offlineKIAS From United States of America, joined Mar 2014, 70 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 80812 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 15):
Hardly any hijackings have been executed by the pilot or crew. It is incredibly rare.

I don't subscribe to the hijacking theory quite yet, I think the details are too nebulous at this point. That said, it's worth mentioning an airline pilot hijacked a plane just last month: http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/17/world/...rope/ethiopian-airlines-hijacking/

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 72):
What if this is a joy ride gone bad. Lets assume crew wanted to take it to 45,000.

What point in the flight are people claiming the plane went to 45,000ft? Because at the point of disappearance it was too heavy to do so.

Quoting katekebo (Reply 95):
could the following scenarios / sequence of events be possible?

An electrical/mechanical/structural issue is very possible.

[Edited 2014-03-15 10:43:18]


"We fly, but we have not 'conquered' the air. When we presume mastery, we are often startled by our ignorance." - DHW
User currently offlineKIAS From United States of America, joined Mar 2014, 70 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 80418 times:

Also, for what it's worth, a "deliberate" deviation does not necessarily imply a hijacking. The course of the plane (and even disabling of systems) may have been intentional, but could have been in reaction to some kind of emergency.


"We fly, but we have not 'conquered' the air. When we presume mastery, we are often startled by our ignorance." - DHW
User currently offlinechaseus1 From United States of America, joined Mar 2014, 74 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 80281 times:

Plots involving other countries just involve so much risk. What if someones radar detected the plane? Downline, how many people would have to know? Only takes one to call Malaysia and say they want a $1,000,000 award to tell where the plane is...

I just don't think its realistic.

Way to many complex steps that could have gone wrong.

I think someone hijacked the plane... I have no clue if it was crew (pilot, co pilot, FA) or passenger(s). They had a plan to do something, and something went wrong, or he/she/they changed their plans on the go.

Somehow, I believe the plane ended up flying away, maybe on its own...., and I am guessing the Southern route. There would have been some immediate response if the plane flew through some of the countries on the northern route. It would have been detected. Just my opinion.

I believe the plane crashed along the southern route in the IO. A lot simpler explanation than the northern route state sponsored landing somewhere undetected theories


User currently offlineDTW2HYD From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 1969 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 80018 times:

Quote:
Quoting nm2582 (Reply 243):
Keep in mind that we aren't talking "shadow" in the sense of the other aircraft blocking the radar radio energy, we are only talking about flying close enough that a single blip/return appears on radar. The radar will fully be exposed to the return energy from both aircraft, but they are so close that the radar can not resolve them as two separate returns.

If it is not close enough it will show up as a bigger blip on radar and those are watching will suspect and send jets.

It could shadow a bigger plane like A380 but very difficult to survive under wake turbulence. May be for few minutes let alone 4 hours. It works only in Hollywood.

Quoting KIAS (Reply 3):
What point in the flight are people claiming the plane went to 45,000ft? Because at the point of disappearance it was too heavy to do so.

This is according to WSJ thru their source, just after losing contact. Even if it climbed to 45,000 (probably cannot) they also claim it dropped to 20,000 in one minute. No one is believing that information.


User currently offlinebrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4232 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 80010 times:

Quoting KIAS (Reply 4):

Also, for what it's worth, a "deliberate" deviation does not necessarily imply a hijacking. The course of the plane (and even disabling of systems) may have been intentional, but could have been in reaction to some kind of emergency.

Would they have not indicated they were in an emergency situation before deviating their course?



Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlinek83713 From Russia, joined Jul 2010, 157 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 79309 times:

Quoting nm2582 (Reply 243):

This theory suits well to overall arrangement of this story, it doesn't look alien to other things we know about MH370. But that means that same trick is possible on daily basis- you get a smaller warplane and fly in the night with passenger jet for cover, and radars see you as one point. How we haven't heard of such things before, I wonder...


User currently offlineoly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 6737 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 78726 times:

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 6):
It could shadow a bigger plane like A380 but very difficult to survive under wake turbulence. May be for few minutes let alone 4 hours.

Two large aircraft can fly in close formation (air to air refuelling) with the trailing aircraft below the leading aircraft, but the concentration required, the lack of visual reference and the unpredictability of the leading aircraft (changes in speed, direction and altitude) would make it impossible to maintain at night for one aircraft just shadowing another for a sustained period of time.



wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
User currently offline747megatop From United States of America, joined May 2007, 716 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 78719 times:

Does anyone know if the aircraft had range to skirt India South of Sri Lanka out of range of any Indian radar and then head into Somalia? Among all the possibilities of the aircraft landing at some place that is the highest possiblity. Any other place other than some remote jungle strip in Burma would be next to impossible given the tightly monitored air space and population density.

User currently offlinejcxroberts From United States of America, joined Mar 2014, 87 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 78820 times:

https://twitter.com/JonahFisher/status/444754310677553153

Being briefed by Malaysia officials they believe most likely location for MH370 is on land somewhere near Chinese/Kyrgyz border. (BBC Reporter)


User currently offlinespacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3629 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 78766 times:

The accident theories just strain all credibility.

I guess it would somehow be more "comforting" (not really the right word, but there's none better) if it were an accident, in the same way some people find it more comforting to think that 9/11 was some kind of inside job. It makes it seem less like a few random people have the power to end peoples' lives and dramatically change the world in the process. But the fact is, they do.

If you can look at the available evidence and conclude that this was a 7 hour long accidental emergency, well... I don't really know what to say to that. It defies any sort of logic. And it's not what any of the investigators seem to think either. The language the Malaysian PM used was clear. And of course we have the earlier leaks to the press from Malaysian investigators that were even more definitive. And there's never been a 7 hour long accident, that I know of.

Is an accident still *possible*? Well, sure, theoretically, in the same way it's theoretically possible that when you walk into a wall, you will go right through it. The laws of physics say there is a tiny but non-zero chance that that could happen. But I sure wouldn't put money on it.

An accident would have to be such an amazing confluence of events the likes of which we have never seen before that a plain old hijacking is much, much more likely. Hijackings happen all the time, even today. The only real difference here is that whoever pulled this one off did their best to hide it, and we still don't know where this plane or the passengers on it are.



I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offlineB-HOP From Hong Kong, joined Nov 2000, 637 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 77843 times:

Would Somila make senses, fuel a 5 hour flight with 7.5 hours, that raise question mark. Despite the poor visbility in BJS (around 3000m) and might bar the FO to land, Captain as an examiner and training captain would be able to land there, since only he can sign the fuel sheet, if FO put an extra 2 hours worth of fuel, the captain could refuse, his family left is yet another red flag. Although the FO weren't clear yet but I would think he noticed somthing, they might fight over control after transponder and Acars shut. Meanwhile, the unknown particpant control the plane before dinner time when the crew are at their busiest or might even entered the cockpit threathen the crew. Given how lax the border controls are, it could well be easy to sneak in some 'tools' on catering carts, has each person whom have involved in the flight before it left interviewed and re-cleared by security? A China flight were chosen may or may not do with recen attack in Kunmming, but as it provide less risk, at the same time 4 777 leaves for BJS, FRA, AMS and NRT, FRA and AMS have 4 crews and NRT flights US would intercept them by Phillipines (from Guam) beside racial tenison in Malaysia. I don't see the target being the twin tower in KL, at least not in a weekend night.

For Somila, a flight from near Penang to Somalia would be well within the range of the aircraft given it has endurance http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PA ... P-STYLE=&ETOPS=180. Some fiddling for exit from air routes from last way point, would still be around 6500km, arrive Somila in the middle of the night, park in a hanger. Once it has been kitted out in Somila, it can head though Sudan (lawless area), Libya (another lawless area)exit Libya airspace it would be Italy and Western Europe, you guess the rest, Somila and some of these desert countries have no radar coverage and relies on position report filed on mixed report place, simply not report a plane takes off would be enough to take it at least to Italy. Beside, if empty, it has range for US. That is my guess, just hope whether strange pop up in airports around those countries.

RR would surely monitor those engines relentlessly before anything turned up.

Kev



Live life to max!!!
User currently offlinecapri From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 449 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 77858 times:

Quoting jcxroberts (Reply 11):
https://twitter.com/JonahFisher/status/444754310677553153

Being briefed by Malaysia officials they believe most likely location for MH370 is on land somewhere near Chinese/Kyrgyz border. (BBC Reporter)

this will get interesting if everybody start following this lead, will there be a make shift runway no one knows about at the border??


User currently offlinesuseJ772 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 820 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 77837 times:

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 10):
Does anyone know if the aircraft had range to skirt India South of Sri Lanka out of range of any Indian radar and then head into Somalia?

We don't know because they haven't released the ACTUAL fuel numbers. In theory if it were just fueled for PEK, then no, I don't think it could make it Somalia. But whether more fuel was put in at pilots discretion is still a mystery.

Also, I think your theory is valid, just improbable because I would imagine landing in Somalia, someone would have seen and said something. I think Iran or China or somewhere in the "-Stans" makes more sense.

[Edited 2014-03-15 11:10:33]


Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
User currently offlinezeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9105 posts, RR: 75
Reply 16, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 77828 times:

Some misinformation in previous threads

ACARS is a air-ground network provided by SITA, many devices on the aircraft will talk to the ACARS management unit, and that unit will work out how to route the message. There are many ground based gateways to the ACARS network, airlines, manufacturers, and ATC.

To disconnect from the ACARS network, pilots do not need to pull a circuit breaker.

ACARS is not a health monitoring system..

Satcom provides data and voice to the aircraft, most long range airliners have one data channel and two voice channels, these are connected via a large surf board shaped antenna on the crown of the aircraft to Inmarsat stationary satellites. Onboard the aircraft there is a box that drives the antenna using the aircraft position from the IRS/GPS to know which satellite to point to.

The voice channels are used in the cabin and cockpit to make phone calls, the cabin phones can be disabled from the cockpit without pulling circuit breakers. The data channel is only active if there is an application using the network.

What Inmarsat is seeing is the time it has taken to do a handshake from the satellite to the aircraft and back again. The satellite is in a fixed position in a stationary orbit, so the time it takes to do this handshake can be used to work out the radius of a sphere around the satellite of a given distance, that distance is the speed of light/ handshake timex0.5. Where that sphere intersects with earth, it generates a small circle.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlinesuseJ772 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 820 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 77586 times:

Quoting jcxroberts (Reply 11):
Being briefed by Malaysia officials they believe most likely location for MH370 is on land somewhere near Chinese/Kyrgyz border. (BBC Reporter)

Which is what I have been asking since Post 11. I will be following this closely.

EDITED for correct post number.

Also, it looks like he is pulling back from that statement a bit now.

Quote:
Jonah Fisher ‏@JonahFisher 3h
Further to earlier tweet on plane location. Officials were cross referencing ping data with how far MH370 could fly in 7hrs.


[Edited 2014-03-15 11:16:57]


Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
User currently offlinerebr From Netherlands, joined Aug 2013, 40 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 77295 times:

Quoting jcxroberts (Reply 11):
most likely location for MH370 is on land somewhere near Chinese/Kyrgyz border

If this turns out to be true, then there is something wrong with the air defense of some countries.... I still doubt an aircraft this size can cross India or Bangladesh unseen...


User currently offlinecapri From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 449 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 77316 times:

Maybe now it's not Malaysia that is hiding something, most likely now China is!!! if anything to do Kyrgyz/china border and the vast chinese desert

User currently offlinePA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 883 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 77028 times:

Malaysian's KUL-PEK 0035/0630 has had the flight number changed to MH318.

PA515


User currently offlineSLCPilot From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 587 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 76792 times:

What land is there on the southern arc? St. Paul Island? What else matches the flying time?

Previous question unanswered... Do the rafts/slides have ELTs?

SLCPilot



I don't like to be fueled by anger, I don't like to be fooled by lust...
User currently offlinechaseus1 From United States of America, joined Mar 2014, 74 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 76784 times:

Quoting KIAS (Reply 4):


Also, for what it's worth, a "deliberate" deviation does not necessarily imply a hijacking. The course of the plane (and even disabling of systems) may have been intentional, but could have been in reaction to some kind of emergency.

I believe they specifically said the disapperanace was deliberate, not just the deviation.


User currently offlinesuseJ772 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 820 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 76775 times:

Quoting rebr (Reply 18):
If this turns out to be true, then there is something wrong with the air defense of some countries.... I still doubt an aircraft this size can cross India or Bangladesh unseen...

Myanmar and then it's pretty much all China from there.



Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
User currently offlinewjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5163 posts, RR: 22
Reply 24, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 76282 times:

I'm not yet persuaded by the altitude data or the "arc" data. If we're talking 7 hours, we're talking the opportunity to travel to Eastern Iran, Oman, Yemen, even Somalia.

Even when they were saying 4.5 hours, a big terrorism expert kept saying to look in eastern Iran, I guess recognizing that that would be a very interesting destination. Iran has much better air defense than, say, Somalia, but if the gov't were involved...


25 KIAS : Sure, it's been said. But there have been several retractions and conflicting reports. Hard to tell what is accurate at this point.
26 capri : a ? can u get a cloned ACARS system in China and put in different infos in ad hoc situation?, can it be portable?, plane came out fresh from maintenan
27 nm2582 : Agreed 100% it would require concentration. Leading aircraft should be "relatively" predictable - you can study their flight path from prior flights
28 rebr : Myanmar borders to India on the west side of the country....It needs quite some fuel if it's gonna fly around that part of India and then still make
29 chaseus1 : I fully understand. I just think that was well thought out wording.... as they talked about independent reviews of data by different groups with the
30 Owleye : Presumably none of the passengers succeeded to make a successful phonecall during the flight. But how about text message, how is that working?
31 FlyHossD : Yes - at least ours did and we were trained how to activate them. I don't know how MH equipped their rafts.
32 ThunderboltDrgn : I don't know, Somalia is almost 3400nm from where the ATC lost contact with them and it is almost an eight hour flight if they fly at a speed of 430k
33 Post contains links suseJ772 : #1 We don't know what fuel it actually had, because they haven't released that information. And #2 - my theory was always northern China anyways due
34 flyingturtle : In one of the earlier threads it was mentioned that at least one portable ELT must be available. I don't know if it is connected to the life raft, th
35 slinky09 : Please note that RR have confirmed to the Malay authorities that they received two ACARS meesages during take off and the early part of the flight on
36 capri : after they claimed It flight flew back to Malacca Strait, it cld have went up in the hand over line between Thailand and India radars and they both as
37 coolian2 : Given their historical tactic is show up by chance with guns, I can only discount Somalia.[Edited 2014-03-15 11:41:19]
38 crippit : Most likely if it did keep on flying then the passengers were unaware that it was off course, they had settled in for a 5 hour flight. The cabin crew
39 DiscoverCSG : The 772 has fuel tanks to fly three times the planned KUL-PEK route; we simply haven't heard how much fuel was loaded on this particular flight. Unle
40 nupogodi : The interesting thing is during the presser, they said they for sure know ACARS was turned off somewhere off the east coast. Now, we know that they on
41 nupogodi : All of the slides have ELTs. They are not G-enabled, they have to be activated manually.
42 DiscoverCSG : Like phone calls, text messages require access to the cell network, which requires being over land with cell coverage. The only land they might have
43 Post contains images flyingturtle : Let's check the airliners.net user list against anybody who might be connected to MH370. ...they could be reading here. But still - to KNOW that the
44 sbkom : Now that this is public information, and IF the a/c is in a hangar waiting to be used by terrorists, guess what? First thing the terrorist will do is
45 Post contains links SOBHI51 : http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/14/wo...airlines-pilot-profiles/index.html This attracted my attention Capt. Zaharie Ahmad Shah Police have been outsid
46 davidzill : The consensus is that she has landed somewhere, which I first thought was outlandish as much as the science-fiction based alien abduction theories. No
47 slinky09 : This has been mentioined over and over again. Many have said that it is typical for pilots to enjoy time on sims and there is nothing unusual in it.
48 SonomaFlyer : The idea the a/c was "stolen" to be used as a terrorist device is too far feteched to be credible. A hijacking by terrorists to promote their cause m
49 pvjin : Or if they want to actually find the aircraft they should go look around Indian Ocean. I just can't believe the theories about the aircraft following
50 shortstack81 : If the northern route is true, how did it get over India without being seen? And over the Himalaya? I am watching the flights on FlightRadar24 and hav
51 SonomaFlyer : The Southern Arc consists of some of the remote sea areas on the planet. I'd guess they will consult satellite data etc to assist but the search area
52 redflyer : ACARS itself isn't a health monitoring system, but isn't one of its purposes to transmit the health of various systems? Or am I misreading your state
53 rc135x : "Shadowing" is far less difficult than this suggests, and is done routinely for long-duration military formation flights. For example with heavy jets
54 solarflyer22 : Totally agree. Its a long step up from knife attacks to commandeering one of those most advanced planes in the sky. Interesting analysis by CNN on fl
55 UALWN : No. This is what the Malaysian PM said: "It then flew in a westerly direction back over peninsular Malaysia before turning northwest. Up until the po
56 pvjin : Yeah it's remote, thus it's great for anyone who wanted to hide the evidence of a hijack / suicide. If the goal was simply to commit a suicide &
57 Post contains links Piliage : Not if the co-pilot was on the payroll for big money. They only have to show up with the guns when it lands. I posted this about 4 threads ago, but t
58 chaseus1 : If he was using a Sim to plan an attack, I doubt he would brag about having the Sim... besides, having such an elaborate set up to me indicates he got
59 DTW2HYD : The term ACARS transmissions is being used loosely, what they reading are SATCOM-INMARSAT pings. It is like your Cable/DSL modem/router is on talking
60 flyingturtle : It might surprise some, but variants of over-the-counter flight sims can be used for getting an IFR rating. Even airline pilotes can use these home f
61 coolian2 : I still would suspect the Captain is a man who made his passion his job. I know this is getting undermined a lot, with good reasons, but I don't see
62 flyenthu : I have flown on SQ 61 and 62 few times and they always do like you are saying. They do not fly over the mid Himalayan areas if they can avoid it. I h
63 aircal62 : per Somonaflyer reply 49. " The idea the a/c was "stolen" to be used as a terrorist device is too far feteched to be credible. A hijacking by terroris
64 spacecadet : That's not the relevant part to the "disappearance" being deliberate, which is what you're disagreeing with. The relevant part of that is the ACARS a
65 chaseus1 : Maybe he is one of those lucky people that have been able to find work in the same field that he enjoys as a hobby. He may have the simulators just b
66 rcair1 : First a synopsis ACARS ACARS data from MH370 SATCOM SATCOM Pings CRV/FDR Data Way-point Tracks Airworthiness Directive Lithium Battery Fires. Search
67 boeingforever : Since they know it was hijacked, and it was flown for over 5 hours, why are they still searching the oceans for the plane. if someone hijacked it to f
68 WingedMigrator : Are you sure it's based on round-trip delay? The map shown earlier (with the red arcs) was graduated by elevation angle of the satellite, as seen fro
69 Post contains images PlymSpotter : Regarding the comments that landing such a large aircraft somewhere in the interior of Central Asia etc... would be impossible due to the darkness, it
70 nupogodi : You clearly did not read my post, at all. Thanks for your input.
71 SeeTheWorld : I don't believe that is the consensus at all. The most plausible scenario is that one of the pilots took this plane far out into the Indian Ocean to
72 seahawk : Kismaayo airfield looks fine for such a purpose imho. Sure it would need to be prepared, but then I am sure if it was a hijacking it was well prepare
73 Viscount724 : Not correct. VHF is basically a line-of-sight radio transmission system. There's no alititude limit as far as I know. The SITA product you refer to i
74 SA7700 : Thanks again for your input. It is a great analysis. Regards, SA7700
75 nupogodi : This has been debunked. To "turn off ACARS" all you need to do is disable it sending over all 3 downlinks, VHF/HF/SATCOM. That can be done from the M
76 Post contains links ThunderboltDrgn : This link has probably been posted before but in case it hasn't here it is: It is a brief insight in how the engine monitoring system work, what info
77 shortstack81 : Thanks a great deal for the summary and sanity check!
78 Post contains links and images socalgeo : I was asked to update my live map with the ground location for the geostationary satellite that was referenced.... and the following post was made in
79 pvjin : To hide evidence? If you wanted to commit a suicide / mass murder and didn't want anyone to ever find out you did it probably the best place to ditch
80 chaseus1 : I don't get how anyone feels there is a consensus the plane landed. Almost any scenario reaching that conclusion makes big assumptions of non-detectio
81 k83713 : So, coming back to this: if it was southern route, and if the hijacker did his best to confuse everyone and hide traces of his flight, accomplished mi
82 pvjin : South African flight 295 did that to get some smoke caused by on board fire out, before it crashed into Indian Ocean. So it's possible on a 747 at le
83 ThunderboltDrgn : I think It is only impossible if there is a pressure difference between the cabin and the air outside..
84 oly720man : Interesting. I'd thought of the aircraft being closer, but of course you can see flashing and fixed lights for quite a distance. Anyone know the over
85 aerodog : What has not been mentioned is the possibility that a U.S. or Russian reconnaissance satellite may have picked up something. The engines produce a pre
86 k83713 : One question then, if the door is possible to open equalizing pressure in cabin and outside: does FDR fix doors position open/locked?
87 solarflyer22 : Yeah agree. And I would add that if the plane made all this effort to avoid radar and go south west then it was probably the captain involved. Its wh
88 AirCalSNA : Did they ever find the missing 727 in Africa? Maybe someone is assembling a fleet of aircraft out there? But for what purpose? To stage another 9/11 s
89 nupogodi : Or because it was a Boeing aircraft and they had assets in the region that could help? Lots of countries entered the SAR effort.
90 jumbojim747 : I hope for all the passengers and crew that the high jacking theory is true. The alternative would be the worst for all the passengers and their famil
91 Post contains images PlymSpotter : If it flew North then there are naturally two scenarios: it crashed, or it landed. One is generally nosier than the other, and nobody has reported th
92 7BOEING7 : You don't have to go to FL450 to asphyxiate everybody, you can do that anywhere above FL250 -- it just takes longer the lower you are and they certai
93 mercure1 : That's an excellent guess. Based on some assumptions: Departed w/ 40.5t fuel for normal KUL-PEK w/ ZFW 177t, TOW 217t (guess based on normal 777-200E
94 7BOEING7 : Crash would have set off the ELT.
95 rcair1 : I've updated the summary with this information and with more data on RR engine health data. BTW - I somewhat object to using the word "debunked" in r
96 k83713 : If there was fight in the cockpit or efforts to slam through the door, locked by hijacker, then he would want to do it rather fast.
97 suseJ772 : Thank you for this. It is a HUGE help. Can you maybe add a section next time for Fuel and Cargo. Noting that they have not released actual fuel numbe
98 suseJ772 : Yep. Remote desert China. Like I have been saying.
99 peterinlisbon : I wonder if an area that could have been chosen for a landing in Xinjiang province is far enough from mobile phone towers that there would be no signa
100 Vctony : I don't understand the "southern" route and why so many people seem to think the aircraft went in that direction. Due to the last primary radar readin
101 7BOEING7 : The doors are built so you just can't "Slam" through them and the difference in useful consciousness between FL350 and FL450 (which they couldn't rea
102 rcair1 : Thanks for your suggestions. I did go back and edit information on ACARS and RR engine health monitoring. I'll certainly consider adding a cargo and
103 rcair1 : It is simply one of the 2 areas that could be valid for the SATCOM data. I think the north route is getting the attention, but if you look at the SAT
104 flyfisher1976 : It's been awhile since I've posted. First off, I will say that I've been somewhat obsessed with this situation as it unravels. I only hope that we dis
105 PHX787 : Do you have a link to MH370's summary? I also recommend posting it to your user profile page.
106 suseJ772 : I think they want to think that because it explains the missing plane part of the theory. It's easier when a plane is missing to say, well, it's at t
107 PHX Flyer : I am quite sure the U.S. is doing this already - quietly. It's in the the nature of secret service agencies to work discretely, without drawing atten
108 flyenthu : Can someone explain this quote? This is the first time I am hearing ELT being discussed in a crash context. Usually, it has always been locating and
109 pvjin : So far there's no more proof of it being anywhere in China than there's about it being around Indian Ocean. The aircraft could have very well turned
110 BaconButty : Just a quick question. Mr Razak in his press conference said Since the pilot did a hand-off on leaving Malaysian airspace, yet ACARS was disabled from
111 nm2582 : Thanks for the info on this. It certainly lends some insight into MH370's ability to pull this off.
112 Post contains links ThunderboltDrgn : I am not an expert but I think most ELT used for airplanes are triggered by a certain amount of g-force but I think that they also can be triggered m
113 capri : just looking at NW China map and the lack of enough airways makes you think is it really a possibility they avoided somehow radars and ended up over t
114 Lindenwold : "CNN's aviation correspondent Richard Quest once visited MH 370's 1st Officer Fariq Ab Hamid in a Malaysia Airlines cockpit, when he was training. Que
115 Post contains links enilria : Why would somebody who flies 777s spend so many $$$s on a simulator? http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Natio.../14/Missing-plane-pilot-simulator/ He was
116 rcair1 : ELT stands for Emergency Location Transmitter and it is an independent piece of battery powered equipment specifically intended to transmit location
117 rcair1 : Can you specify the source of data that the ACARS was disabled from the flight deck. How do (would) we know that.
118 7BOEING7 : The ELT as made famous by the 787 fire at LHR is meant to go off in a plain crash and provides a VHF signal and transmits in the case of modern airli
119 Post contains links VC315 : I, for one, also don't think the current situation of MH370 has anything to do the Crimea situation, but as elseones have argued that a possible US c
120 pvjin : None of the hardware on his sim is that expensive, the yoke & pedals cost around 140 dollars each, not all that much if you have a pilot's salary
121 capri : Will anyone hear it if crash landed in remote places like NW China???
122 DTW2HYD : Thanks for your sanity checks. I am under the impression entire ACARS and what service MH subscribed i.e, RR health monitoring is irrelevant to MH370
123 UALWN : This is the part I don't fully understand. Is the PM saying that by the time of the last radio contact with the plane the ACARS system had already be
124 nm2582 : I'd be willing to bet that numerous surveillance satellites have made orbit adjusting burns in the past week to better scrutinize what's happening on
125 Post contains images socalgeo : Very nice, thanks! I've updated the map with the 2375 NM buffer, and converted the 2200 mile buffer to NM... Map Link:http://sandbox.maps.arcgis.com/
126 slinky09 : We don't know that, although plenty of reports say 3,650 ish miles was how far it flew ... which is about 1,000 miles further than 2,375 NM, Be great
127 UALWN : I don't think we know this for sure. But the PM said indeed that the ACARS system was disabled well before the last radio transmission from the cockp
128 k83713 : Thanks for clarifying it. NYT yesterday said about 45000 feet ascend soon after transponder was set off, then uneven descend to 23000, but it's not c
129 BaconButty : I had in mind TristarSteves post in the previous part: I realise now that this merely confirms that you can "turn off" ACARS from the flight deck, so
130 solarflyer22 : Yeah, I think we're in agreement. I can't fathom that the northern track is viable at all. It looks like the purpose of this was all to get to the re
131 AT : There also seems to be lots of discussion but not definitive confirmation of precisely how much fuel was loaded on the flight. That should be among th
132 chaseus1 : I'm starting to think crew too now, as much as I hate to. If ACARs was turned off via MFD, that would have to be a technique known by someone experien
133 capri : If it was really a pilot suicide why he couldn't bid for a more favourable and remote route to do so, so he can't be discovered, why choose a congeste
134 k83713 : Why to go for such a complex suicide with 237 other people behind without any point made to the rest of the world? Simply nothing except general poli
135 rcair1 : Presuming the pilot did hijack the a/c - nothing he did would have required training beyond what he already had as a very experienced 777 pilot. In o
136 nupogodi : My theories: * They expected a routine (periodic) ACARS message while their radar track still showed them in range of SITA AIRCOM ground station, nea
137 ZKCIF : Listen, the captain cannot be at fault . If he wanted to hijack the plane , he would have waited to be scheduled to Amsterdam or somewhere else far aw
138 slinky09 : Your belief has no basis. But neither does any assumption of guilt. At this moment there is nothing definitive, consequently, nothing can be ruled ou
139 fooflyboy : Apparently the hijacker(s) never learned this either. Where is this located on the aircraft? Is it easy to access (to disable it)?
140 7BOEING7 : I think he was too heavy to be at FL450, I think he'd be lucky to get much above FL410 with out entering a stall.
141 capri : maybe indeed got stalled and recovered at fl230 as per NYT, who knows? or there was a fight in cockpit and who ever was (pilol/hijacker) regained con
142 suseJ772 : We are just going to agree to disagree. I discussed ad nauseam why I don't see a prolonged D-check enough time. Why I think China has track record of
143 Post contains links LTC8K6 : Could it fly for seven hours, and still get up to 45K at 40 or so minutes into the flight? Malaysia's prime minister said the last confirmed signal be
144 7BOEING7 : No!!!!
145 mercure1 : I think the 3650 would be a reasonable total ground track distance from KUL to ??? The original reports mentioned 7hrs of total range available upon
146 LTC8K6 : They have it flying for 7.5 hours... 45K and then 23K sorta' sounds like a high altitude stall and recovery.
147 k83713 : I also feel some inconsistency there, but we still don't know for sure exact amount of fuel taken aboard. Just a random thought: if it was in the sha
148 slinky09 : Thank you, folk should remember this.
149 edmountain : It’s now more than 12 hours after that rather remarkable press conference by the Malaysian Prime Minister wherein a surprising amount of information
150 HNL2BOS : Just stop, this is the worst theory. You are telling me that instead of just giving the finger to Boeing and the US and just taking a 777, 787, or wh
151 DTW2HYD : You are probably the only expert on technical details of Boeing aircraft, so I have to ask. In a perfect water landing scenario (with engines broke o
152 Post contains links windshear : Looks like it could be a hijacking given the fact that ACARS and the transponder was manually switched off... http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/03...-
153 mercure1 : Technically it could eek up to apprx. FL440 at a Gross weight (195t) it was likely at ~VAMPI (more like 120min into flight). e.g. Max climb thrust, M
154 jelliesR : If you look at the transcript he didn't say that. He said the plane was flown deliberately, and that the transponder was turned OFF and the ACARS was
155 Post contains links theaviator380 : What you guys make of that ? Satellite asked #MH370 'can you hear me?' The 777 said 'yes' & the normal pings didn't immediately raise red flags
156 turjo101 : I am totally baffled by What kind of radar systems do Bangladesh and Nepal have. I keep hearing about the Bay of Bengal. Is it possible the airplane f
157 theaviator380 : Very slim chance, both countries especially India have got very good Radar system.
158 boacvc10 : Did you leave out one other choice: the designated pilots were not at the controls of the aircraft, from the beginning of the flight. Think about it,
159 trnswrld : A lot of pilots keep the frequency change acknowledgement short and simple. I'm a controller and when I ship a plane to the next sector sometimes all
160 edmountain : Well his exact words were "these movements are consistent with deliberate action by someone on the plane." His choice of "was disabled", "switched of
161 mercure1 : Based on the zig routing, it could have made it to SE Iran direct from IGREX, e.g. Saravan, Iran. However, to do it, w/ the likely fuel on board, it
162 bajamatic : I believe this to be the case. This one the FO's first run in a 777, right? Stands to reason that the flight crew may have never met him before and a
163 windshear : Iran would not be a likely destination, as Al Qaeda and Iran are foes... But other places in that area for sure... I will bring the quote again from
164 edmountain : Cannot be excluded by why invoke a whole new set of unknown characters when the original cast hasn't even been looked at yet?
165 7BOEING7 : If the crew is dead you're not going to get a perfect water landing -- the engines would flameout and the airplane would "fall" from the sky. If ever
166 EricR : If this were the case, and I was a pax, I would be using the emergency escapes to get off the plane. I know someone will say that maybe this was done
167 hivue : Thanks for the summary and welcome to anet. I have been away from the forum for a while so just point me in the right direction if the following has
168 Post contains links and images spacecadet : I posted earlier that some people apparently do not want to believe the prevailing theory (even if you accept it as just a theory) despite all availa
169 boacvc10 : Because. the a.net community often jumps to conclusions, and right now, we need that to figure out where to look - 9 days, 239 people, no ELT, no wre
170 windshear : I guess people are not comfortable with the truth Here is more of what the prime minister said: "Najib also said that authorities are now trying to tr
171 LTC8K6 : Well, the Malaysian authorities did not inspire confidence at all. It was natural to be very skeptical.
172 Post contains links ThunderboltDrgn : The latest theory seems to be Malaysian Islamists according to the telegraph: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...surface-in-case-of-lost-plane.htm
173 boacvc10 : If the perpetrator(s) were hiding in the cockpit or had authorized access to the cockpit for departure, you, as passenger, would have no clue. Red-ey
174 edmountain : I fear that adding more baseless speculation into the mix will only distract from analyzing what is already known. Why rush to look for other suspect
175 DTW2HYD : I should have been more clear, this is based on all these theories flight crew may have done something bad. -Cabin Crew and Passengers are dead. -Fli
176 nupogodi : The whole E/E bay thing has been debunked, you can turn off ACARS transmission from VHF/HF/SATCOM from the cockpit. Also, he would not need to turn o
177 EricR : [quote=boacvc10,reply=173] The passengers would have known because your post said: "could someone (or a group) have removed the pilots from the cockpi
178 nupogodi : Absolutely not. GPS is a separate system. Many aircraft are not equipped with SATCOM to begin with.
179 Shanwick1011Z : A lot of contributors let their heckles rise over this simulator the captain had. If he is the hijacker and if he was contemplating suicide I would ex
180 chaseus1 : That's similar to what I was thinking and posting.... that it looked like a possible 9/11 copy... the plane departed, climbed out, and turned around,
181 dandelany : Here is a question I have not seen asked, perhaps because it is a stupid question: Are there any known combinations of geography + terrain that would
182 peterinlisbon : Whatever the truth is, the fact that a passenger aircraft can disappear and travel halfway across the world through the airspace of several different
183 boacvc10 : I meant, ... "could someone (or a group) have incapacitated the pilots within the cockpit"
184 UALWN : Not quite. He explicitly said this: "Despite media reports that the plane was hijacked, I wish to be very clear: we are still investigating all possi
185 jcxroberts : Indonesia says they got no radar pings and it's hard to avoid Indonesia on the Southern corridor as it has been published.
186 garpd : You think any eyebrows will lift if Iran Air turns up on a scheduled arrival in Europe some place with a freshly painted 777 in a few weeks time? Or w
187 777Jet : I don't think it makes sense to give somebody their first flight on type on a short overnight red-eye in which there would only be one experienced cr
188 boacvc10 : No, the satellite modem is a separate subsystem entirely, it's role is the uplink/downlink, the ACARS is a terminal, that has multiple comm channels.
189 Post contains links ytraveller : First off: I have been following these threads since Part 1 last Friday, and I offer my condolences to the families of the victims. I can’t imagine
190 chaseus1 : This story just posted about a plot is interesting, because it gives new ideas on how hijackers could have gotten cockpit access. maybe crew involved?
191 zeke : The Australian over the horizon radar is hard to avoid as well, it look at the plan view of the aircraft, it could pickup B2s where other radars woul
192 nupogodi : Yeah, we're in agreement, and that's exactly what I said. It is highly likely the pilot was not even aware of SATCOM pings/keep-alives. This is a low
193 EricR : A lot of people keep on saying this, but why is this so surprising? Most countries are small and can be overflown in an hour or two. It would take ab
194 trex8 : That arc they show on the sat maps goes thru Vietnam and the gulf of THailand too though was not highlited in red. If the plane could be anywhere alo
195 edmountain : I think the theory is the plane is (was) most likely along the red highlighted segments?
196 DTW2HYD : Apparently they also have one on mainland facing Bay of Bengal with max range of 500NM, a modified Israeli Super Green Pine, interestingly used for m
197 Razza74 : Piggybacking KLM836 across Asia would enable MH370 remain undetected
198 suseJ772 : The worst? Really? You're telling me the guy who thought it flew into lower-outer space is a better theory? Or at this point, it catching on fire and
199 Post contains links jcxroberts : he latest theory seems to be Malaysian Islamists according to the telegraph: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...surface-in-case-of-lost-plane.html
200 ThunderboltDrgn : Though I read (probably in article linked from an a.net thread) that the Indian radars at The Andamans and Nicobars might not have been active.
201 airlineecon : Is it safe to assume the investigators knows exactly how much fuel was loaded on the plane? Otherwise, it might be possible to guess based on length o
202 777Jet : Somebody else said that it would have to be very, very close. So close that any unexpected moves might result in a collision. Also, it was mentioned
203 Snowjob : Something about the latest CNN reporting is bothering me. I can't seem to wrap my head around 'pilot intervention' as Barbara Star was reporting in th
204 hivue : Pardon me for posting again, but what happened to the supposed EHM data that, according to the NYT article, RR got from the plane after it made its as
205 747-600X : I agree with Snowjob; even if the pilots purposefully flew the thing off into the middle of the night, surely some passenger at some point would have
206 jelliesR : nothing precludes the possibility it was just circling - outside radar range but on the satellite track. right? in fact as the distance to satellite w
207 suseJ772 : They havne't made that known. Many of us have been wondering the same thing and curious why they haven't released it. Even a statement of, "we checke
208 SeeTheWorld : This is the only new interesting theory in the past 24 hours .... Maybe the Captain snapped and .... Yes, there are many possibilities to conclude th
209 edmountain : Agree too. Perhaps this lends weight to the southern track over the Indian Ocean?
210 billreid : Is it possible that an erroneous/false flight plan was filed with Indian ATC. What if they were looking for MH370, and another flight called in giving
211 edmountain : I don't think the tracks are thought to be flight paths. Rather, the aircraft was felt to be at some point along the arcs at the moment of its last c
212 undertheradar : yes, it is very unsettling...and it really highlights how 'fractured' / 'flawed' communications and cooperation are between various 'authorities', co
213 nupogodi : It's possible that only VHF ACARS was disabled. Since the pilots would know that MH does not subscribe to SATCOM, they may not have known that EHM me
214 777Jet : He might have snapped! Was his rant on FB (also his last FB post) about the political situation in Malaysia confirmed as actually being from him? If
215 hivue : Thanks. I suppose that's possible. But it doesn't quite add up to me. The PM's press conference sounded pretty open and comprehensive, but I wonder i
216 Post contains links ThunderboltDrgn : Too my knowledge the pilots can give their flight any letter/number combination they desire but the planes hex code would still be the same and that
217 nupogodi : I tried asking this sort of question before, but no one really understood what I was asking, basically - How do they *know* ACARS was disabled while
218 cpw : This. As I said in a post yesterday, this is a criminal investigation and I think people are crazy to think that every piece of information would be
219 enilria : OK, this is what is scaring me. My theory... One of the pilots hijacked the plane as I don't see how anybody else got into the cockpit so quickly aft
220 art : I don't think we do know that. I think that this has been judged to be probable - "might have been disabled" changes to "was disabled" if perceived p
221 CaliAtenza : I don't know why, but everything this guy has been saying: https://twitter.com/flyingwithfish , has pretty much come true so far.
222 cpw : Is the HEX code hard-coded into the transponder hardware, or the airplane itself? How difficult would it be to do a swap of a transponder while in fl
223 Post contains links Lindenwold : tsa confiscated his laptops a few years ago to find out who his sources are. http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/12/dhs-threatens-blogger/
224 hivue : I would hazard a guess that if ACARS (VHF or SATCOM) is shut down, the last message it sends is it's being shut down.
225 nupogodi : It is coded into the LRU rack that houses the transponder hardware. It requires maintenance hardware to change. The reason it is coded into the rack
226 cpw : Thanks for the info.
227 nupogodi : While that's a possibility, that's not how any network engineer would design it. The SATCOM-INMARSAT connection is potentially used for more than jus
228 Post contains images fooflyboy : Thank you for leaving my theory off your list. Boy we're still amazingly lucky we had that SATCOM. Without that, that plane literally would have 'van
229 777Jet : I agree that the timing was perfect, if intentional, and only the pilots would have known what that precise time would be. How advanced was his simul
230 CaliAtenza : doesn't mean he's wrong though; look at all what has happened this week....everything that guy said has come true...
231 undertheradar : that's how I interpret the PMs 'statement'...the only thing he really confirmed is that they are 'changing' the elements of the search area...as 'new
232 7BOEING7 : You can't disable the oxygen system for the passengers and climbing to FL450 (impossible at his initial weight) doesn't knock out the passengers unle
233 N328KF : Something about the timing. Does this now indicate that MH370 was still in the air when the panic alarm went out that it was missing?
234 AT : I know this is pre-emptive thinking but if turns out that the pilots are guilty of something sinister, I do hope that we treat their family members wi
235 flyinggoat : I find it a bit sobering to think that this plane could be anywhere in the world by now, assuming it hasn't crashed. A week has past since it went mis
236 Post contains links Tapir : This looks interesting, As I said before, the focus is on the pilot. it looks like local political issue. http://tinyurl.com/q8yv9op
237 CaliAtenza : or it has been detected, and some type of special ops operation is on...to maybe rescue the passengers. Notice how US government officials keep sayin
238 Post contains links and images socalgeo : I've been thinking about this, so I spent a little time searching the interweb and I found this ICAO report from Jan 2013 that has an interesting map
239 nupogodi : I don't think the accident a/c had satphones installed even though the MH site says their 777s do (the question was, "why didn't anyone use a satphon
240 Post contains images CaliAtenza : That's a really good map . I think if the plane flew over burma or bangladesh...there is a much better chance to sneak into china.
241 StuckInCA : Yep. Mainly because it is not only terrible, but because you won't stop pushing it. A 777 is not cutting edge and China wouldn't need to do this to r
242 hivue : Anything else besides a keep alive signal and EHM data (and phone calls) that might have gone out over SATCOM?
243 Post contains links nupogodi : Technically it's used for in-flight WiFi and cell phone microcells and such, but not with the low-bandwidth version they were using, and accident a/c
244 Post contains images 11Bravo : I think if that was the goal, the aircraft would have just flown to its intended destination in the first place.
245 Post contains images enilria : I saw pictures of it in an early article linked from this thread. He had three screens. He had pilot and copilot screens + he had a "ceiling" mounted
246 capri : no wonder no wonder in first day some put in a link in first threads that this pilot is a hero before we started to know anything about the missing fl
247 Post contains images Starlionblue : Correct. It only takes a small pressure difference but there has to be one. If the pressure is equalized you can open the doors. You go first. I'll j
248 chaseus1 : I wonder... did the co-pilot seek out Richard Quest for an interview, or did it just happen by luck that he was the one chosen for that feature by CNN
249 jelliesR : the pings by the satellite all implied the same distance data. That seems to me to be not chance. It suggests the pilot flew at a constant radius arou
250 toobz : As much as I would hate to think this had crew member involvement..I don't see how it can be anything else. If they blew the flight deck door open, ce
251 nupogodi : Only the data for the last ping has been revealed, so how do you know that?
252 hivue : I think those can only give the roughest kind of approximation of distance and direction. After a lot more brain power is applied they might be able
253 Tapir : The way the trial was conducted was highly questionable and many people were angry. The next day there was aplan to hold demonstation but MH370 overt
254 Snowjob : Part of what is confusing about the developing story line of 'looking at the pilots' (beyond the fact that it seemingly took over a week to start 'loo
255 764 : OR it was stationary..... on the ground maybe. OR (theoretically) it was flying due south or north along the satellite's horizon. But that would put i
256 ranold76 : I've been thinking for the last couple days on the whole "suicide in the ocean" scenario and it just doesn't add up. In fact, I'm starting to lean tow
257 777Jet : Interesting. Add to that the reported last FB posting from the Captian... Actually, does anybody know what thread, post # the translation of the Capt
258 jelliesR : I don't think the pings contain direction, only distance from transponder perhaps calculated from latency of the connection. If the pilot was responsi
259 capri : Do you think some military pro Anwar Ibrahim are covering up some data and maybe this plane relanded in a protected military base in Malaysia until t
260 Post contains links nupogodi : MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26 (by SA7700 Mar 15 2014 in Civil Aviation)#123 Search for "Anwar"[Edited 2014-03-15 18:10:
261 socalgeo : Agreed, and the search arc covers that area. Perhaps one could skirt the radar at what looks like the border of Nepal and Bhutan to get over that far
262 chaseus1 : I'm not sure if that was his comment that it would be his last Facebook post. It may have been someone posting in his wall. It seemed like one of the
263 Tapir : I remember reading the post and it could be in the previous thread. One of his sentence was " for the sake of our children....". but I couldn't make
264 nupogodi : I will quote the text of the post by user 'jetfuel' in #123 of the previous thread: I have translated some of the Malay of the Captains facebook page.
265 laxboeingman : I am sorry if this has been asked before, I have not been on in a while. Why is the Malaysian government now saying the 777 flew for seven hours after
266 WingedMigrator : For straight and level flight, perhaps. The weights could be significantly higher for a parabolic trajectory flown at less than one G.
267 rdu2sfo : The captain's facebook posts and political views are interesting, but if they are somehow related to a motive here then why fly the plane so far away
268 psolk : You guys really need to get off the simulator kick... Go to flightsim or avsim and you will see how common his setup is. Chances are he was using Micr
269 Starlionblue : The working theory a couple of days ago was that the plane had suffered a mechanical issue of some kind. There was no reason at the time to suspect t
270 laxboeingman : What was the election that he referred to?
271 Tapir : I doubt so. They knew 240am from the very beginning and that information could only come out from military radar. And the military radar would said t
272 ikramerica : Many threads ago, I put forth that the Chinese government has been trying to confuse the search effort from the start, constantly redirecting it to t
273 hivue : The aircraft's satellite communication antenna was sending standby signals to the satellite constellation for that long.
274 nupogodi : The SATCOM system was sending keep-alive packets to INMARSAT's constellation until past 0800L. Word is the CVR only holds 2hr on a loop in this a/c,
275 Dalavia : I agree. Everything he says seems to become part of an official announcement hours, or sometimes days, after he posts his tweets, even if what he say
276 Snowjob : I can see how it is easy to make a potential connection between the pilot's political views and/or anger at the Malaysian government to this tragedy.
277 laxboeingman : Very good point. Very interesting thought and I was wondering about his affiliations. I didn't want to ask, though, so thank you for bringing this up
278 Post contains links nupogodi : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_Ibrahim_sodomy_trials There was a bi-election for the area surrounding Kuala Lumpur that he was favoured to win. Th
279 slowroll : If the idea was to use the plane eventually as a WMD, wouldn't it be a lot easier to just buy some old 744s?
280 laxboeingman : Thank you. I agree with you, but people do some horrible, horrible things. Maybe the overturn was his motivation and this was the only way he knew ho
281 aftgaffe : Lets say the plane was depressurized to knock out everyone. Can it be re-pressurized or are the hijackers using portable oxygen for the remainder of t
282 ikramerica : That is the same argument that gun owners make. Yet while most gun owners aren't killers, it is much easier to kill someone if you use a gun. Flight
283 CaliAtenza : let me rephrase; sneak into the part of the China that whoever was flying the plane wanted to go to.
284 Post contains links Tapir : This is the report that we need to concentrate on. Why Malaysia did not respond or raise alert by then? http://news.malaysia.msn.com/malaysi...sia-we
285 nupogodi : I think it's only a select few who think there is a nefarious purpose to the sim setup. He had 18000hrs and was an extremely experienced 777 captain,
286 fooflyboy : Thank you. That's interesting. And makes sense. Is it accessible from the cabin in any way do you know? I think about that. A lot.
287 laxboeingman : He was in command of this plane and had the opportunity. I think it would have been harder to buy used planes because you have to buy fuel, fly it to
288 jelliesR : That FB thing was posted over a year ago.. "Politics of fear.. This is what it’s boiled down to… Questioning the qualification of the individuals
289 laxboeingman : I am repeating my questions from a little earlier because they were missed: I have not been on in a while. Why is the Malaysian government now saying
290 washingtonflyer : Wow. I've been watching the CNN coverage of this whole incident. Their expert - Evy Poumpouras - is absolutely embarrassing. She thinks that having a
291 777Jet : Thank you for finding this... My skills were not up to the task... If you link that to the news articles about his support for Anwar.. this makes pol
292 hivue : Dodging radar to fly out over the Indian Ocean and crash at an unknown location is a pretty obscure way to make a political statement.
293 laxboeingman : Thank you for the clarification. It may have, though, been a combination of things that led him to this point, if he is responsible. Maybe now is jus
294 Snowjob : Thanks for the clarification.
295 laxboeingman : I agree, but as I mentioned before, people do horrible, horrible things. Maybe this was the only way he knew how.
296 ikramerica : There is no rational explanation for killing 200+ people. But people still do such things when they are "touched" in the head, and it usually somethi
297 Tapir : is it possible to post the actual Malay wording of his last post. P107 indicates a constituency where he resides. Sorry, I have no FB nor familiar wi
298 hivue : They were not missed. They were answered twice.
299 tomlee : If you update that map to include the Inmarsat-3 F3 POR sat coverage at 178° east we can easily see where the two corridors may be generated from. W
300 Post contains links socalgeo : From the Daily Mail in the UK : http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...significant-flying-experience.html WHY DIDN'T RADAR FIND THE PLANE? Radar cover
301 CaliAtenza : the one thing that bugs me about that Iran part is that why the hell would Iran do something like this; unless its a faction who is trying to wreck t
302 777Jet : But would he be able to work out how to fly without being traced? Things like that... Would he be able to work out the different effects on radar, et
303 ranold76 : Exactly.
304 kurtjeter : Just to clarify, please, this is a detail I don't think has been addressed. When talking of asphyxiation (at any FL), are we talking of the DEATH of
305 fooflyboy : Interesting thought.
306 laxboeingman : OK, I will look. Thank you. Thank you for positing. That explains, or could explain, why the Malaysian armed forces did not look for and/or attempt t
307 nupogodi : I have not read any such news articles. I am not sure how the Malaysian press would handle such things to begin with, and I certainly don't speak the
308 tomlee : Technically speaking using cellphone's while in the air is possible (over land of course) while if your at sea and high up chances are your out of ra
309 flyenthu : Does the ELT go off in water crashes or is it only for land crashes?
310 jelliesR : If he had nothing much to live for, at some level had nearly zero empathy for his passengers, and wanted to create an event that would embarrass the
311 undertheradar : it's a 'cultural' thing..in some countries AND within some airlines, 'pilots' are placed in such 'high regard' and above the rest of us..ie they 'can
312 capri : They should go back and look in the Mallaca strait, someone is hiding something from the public to know and it's highly political motivated, this is m
313 tomlee : Without the CVR the radio recording probably doesn't have the same audio quality required to figure that out but it really depends on how clear the c
314 washingtonflyer : I've never been able to hit a cell tower and get a call through at 35,000 feet (or even at 20,000) when operating at speed. They must have much bette
315 BoeingVista : Its a well defended and very secure area as the Chinese are paranoid about the Indians plus the border is not completly defined to the satisfaction o
316 nupogodi : It will go off when you impact the water, but it cannot transmit through water, the signal is highly attenuated at the smallest depth. This is why CV
317 EricR : Whoa! Thanks. This is the best source of info on this entire thread. I am not sure who he knows, but he has inside sources.
318 rcair1 : Sanity Check Link Hi folks - on the suggestion of a member I've placed a link to the "Latest Sanity Check" in my profile under "Homepage" If you open
319 N328KF : Well, another thing that question prompts is (and pardon if it's been answered), but has anyone (outside of the investigation) correlated the "goodni
320 nupogodi : Personal experience: I've not been able to connect to a cell tower reliably above ~5000ft. Weak signal and it wouldn't work anyway as you kept hoppin
321 Post contains links ltbewr : The loss of this aircraft to me brings up 4 issues that governments and airlines need to deal with: 1) Weaknesses in the military and civilian ATC rad
322 FirstClass : I don't get it. Let's say the pilots were behind this. Why spend hours over the oceans or over land before crashing? The passengers could have revolte
323 CaliAtenza : go through his tweets; he said 4 hours after the plane was reported missing, DHS told him without hesitation that the pilot was involved. That's plen
324 cpw : If we find that industrial sabotage is behind this, my guess is that it's because of something that was on the plane - likely in the cargo hold - rat
325 tomlee : Depends on your phone and area, some countries have very good cellphone coverage (better/cheaper than US/Canada that is for sure) even in remote area
326 passenger8170 : I'm still trying to figure out the logic in this disappearance. Logically, doesn't turning off the transponder make it more likely that MH370 would be
327 Post contains links 802flyguy : Good story from NYT on Malaysian government's handling of situation early on: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/16/wo...sk-of-finding-flight-370.html?_r=
328 Post contains images socalgeo : I updated the live map earlier today and posted links in reply 78: Slinky09 (in Reply 186from 2 or 3 thread pages ago):posted this: "Sky news just sh
329 N328KF : Perhaps there was a plan, and it went awry, and ditching or crashing was the result. Or, if the pilot was angry due to the trial earlier in the day (
330 nupogodi : I have to say, I'm quite amused at all the people in this thread that think cell phones work in the flight levels. "Why didn't they call anyone?!" Let
331 Snowjob : I get the investigative track, and leading theory, that an experienced pilot must have been in control of the plane based on the current evidence. Thi
332 tomlee : No I don't think it is incorrect but the two endpoints seem to lay within/near the POR sat's range as well. Maybe they used the fact the modem wasn't
333 rcair1 : A transponder will only work in the coverage area of secondary radar. Outside that area - and there a many such areas - a transponder would not help.
334 enilria : That's actually a point that hasn't been made. Correct me if I'm wrong, but given how long this flight flew there will never be a CVR recording of th
335 nupogodi : It's true, but this sure got Malaysia on the world stage in a bad way, didn't it? And the reversal of the acquittal happened literally hours before M
336 undertheradar : there will ALWAYS be a HUMAN element in EVERY aircraft 'event' that occurs across the globe on a daily basis!! ...that's the easy part....the difficul
337 BridYYC : My very limited understanding is that pressurization does more than just provide oxygen. It also provides support and stability for the airframe. Cou
338 EricR : I read through his tweets. He believes the plane was taken for its "cargo". The cargo is not quite what comes to mind initially when you think of car
339 nupogodi : The media has said that the accident a/c was equipped with a CVR that has a 2 hour loop. I wouldn't personally know, I doubt anyone here would either
340 nupogodi : Yes. The forces due to pressure would be identical to those on the ground, or near it. The aerodynamic forces of the wind would not start bending the
341 YVRLTN : Investigators into any crime (not just aviation ones) pick up on the little details and we can be sure there is one helluva interrogation going on of
342 CaliAtenza : after reading that, makes me think someone in the government was in on it...
343 capri : waiting after to leave malaysian airspace, then shot down or hijacked for cargo, those 20 people in that group that people mentioned very odd and the
344 777Jet : At least one MH 777, 9M-MRG, was fitted with technology by AeroMobile that allows mobile phones to be used in-flight to make calls, send sms, browse
345 nupogodi : There was also a comment here (and elsewhere) earlier that the outflow valve would not allow the cabin to depressurize above 14000ft cabin altitude as
346 CaliAtenza : his map last night has the plane ending up in Iran, specifically Eshafan (i probably borked that spelling lol).
347 Post contains images nupogodi : Of course I am not talking about the microcell-SATCOM Honeywell tech that was piloted on the MH 777 you are talking about. As far as I heard, it was
348 StuckInCA : Well, depending on the cargo, I may or may not disagree with you. That said, the poster of the comment I originally responded to has only proposed th
349 aftgaffe : The reason I was suggesting the depressurization might have occurred / begun before the lass comm with ATC was because there seems to be a consensus
350 Post contains links jetblueguy22 : Hi All, This thread has gotten long and will be locked. Please continue the conversation here MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Par
351 Snowjob : I sure hope so....since I've had MSFS since 1983 (V.1 on my Commodore 64) and still play around with my FSX (on a much better system, mind you) 31 ye
352 ikramerica : Actually, from what I understand, it's a very non-gruesome death. It's basically like drinking too much, feeling woozy, passing out and never waking
353 William60 : Just think there was too much careful planning for this to be a suicide. I'd be interested to hear what measures folks think might be implemented beca
354 fooflyboy : Well done. Not out of the question to be sure. This is the first I've seen this idea posed.
355 Tangowhisky : Hello all, I have a few questions and some comments. I would really appreciate if some attempts can be made to answer my questions. What would it take
356 XT6Wagon : It would be even easier than that. Buy an early 777-200ER for scrapping, and scrap it... Whole point of the scrapping is to remove all the high value
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